June 16, 2025 • 23 mins
The forgotten goldmine of real estate success isn't found in another listing presentation or door-knocking session—it's hidden in plain sight within your buyer database. Tom Panos and John McGrath unpack one of the most overlooked opportunities in real estate: buyer servicing. While most agents are fixated on listings and door-knocking, the real leverage lies in your buyer database—and chances are, you're barely scratching the surface.
You’ll hear why top agents aren’t just working with 5–15 buyers—they’re nurturing 40–50 qualified ones at any given time. John McGrath explains how strategic buyer work leads to listings, referrals, and stronger sales outcomes: “Buyers become sellers and influence whether a property actually sells.”
Tom and John break down the practical tactics elite agents use to dominate with buyers:
How to conduct meaningful buyer interviews
Why recommending a competitor’s listing can actually boost your brand
How to use team huddles and calendar planning to maximise buyer conversions
They also dive into the mindset shift that makes all the difference: approaching buyers with authenticity and an abundance mentality. It's not just about transactions—it’s about trust, loyalty, and long-term wins.
As Tom puts it: “Without a buyer, nothing gets sold or settled.” If you’re ready to future-proof your business, this episode will give you the blueprint.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Panos (00:04):
Tom Panos, john McGrath minus Troy Malcolm today
.
Welcome to Million Dollar Agent, the podcast.
Right in the heart of winter,real estate agents across
Australia and New Zealand arerugged up.
But I've got to tell you, john,the buyers are still out there,
the vendors are still out there, people want to transact and
(00:24):
I'm really excited because todaywe're going to spend 15 minutes
talking about the art of buywork and I'd love to tap into a
lot of the stuff.
Like John, if you remember whenwe were both doing real estate
decades ago more than now whenthey were just our main role,
private inspections was actuallymore than half the deals you
(00:44):
would get done were done,meeting people at properties
Monday to Friday.
The open for inspections wasthe bonus and I just think that
maybe we should go through aboutfive or six great things agents
are doing that have masteredthe art of buyer work.
John McGrath (00:59):
Yeah, tommy, you're 100% right, as usual.
The art of one-on-one buyerappointments, the art of buyer
servicing let's start there Ithink has been lost by a lot of
agents.
It's funny I was speaking to avery good agent the other day
very successful, very gooddoesn't work with us, but very,
very good and he said I wascoaching him.
He asked me, he said could youjust give me 15, 20 minutes,
(01:21):
just advice, I'm just a bit lostwhere I'm at, this guy's
writing 2 million and heprobably will write a lot more.
Anyway, I was talking aboutbuyer servicing.
I said what's your strategythere?
He said oh, john, we've beentaught just to get the listings,
and the buyers will find thelistings and that's it.
And I think a lot of theindustry is being taught or has
started to think like that, tom.
And I reckon that buyerservicing is one of the great
(01:44):
hidden opportunities to dominateyour market.
Because guess what?
Buyers become sellers.
Buyers talk to sellers, buyersare related to sellers and if
you become the only agent that abuyer can rely upon to follow
them up, call them back, offerthem properties you know, work
with them, encourage them,you're going to be, you're going
(02:05):
to start dominating the listingside.
So, yeah, breswick Whitney'sbeen very good.
I remember Ivan and Shannon whenthey left us sadly.
I wish they were still with usbecause they're great agents,
but anyway they decided whenthey were with us.
They were extraordinary atbuyer servicing and they made
that very much a mark of theirswhen they went out and they
(02:25):
started Bresic Whitney and Ithink that's been for Bresic,
that's been one of the keys tosuccess has been very, very good
bioservicing.
So opportunity for everyonelistening today to say, okay,
probably I've been neglecting,at best I've been suboptimal and
let's discuss.
You know what are some of thethings you can do to become an
expert buyer service.
Tom Panos (02:46):
Yeah, Okay, so let's start off.
John.
Let's start off with talk abouta quantity at any one time, and
it changes based on the market.
When you've got a hot buyersmarket and there's no stock and
there's lots of buyers, you'vegot a lot more hot buyers to
work with.
Then you've got another marketwhere it's more like there's a
lot of sellers but there's not alot of buyers.
(03:08):
You might have less number ofbuyers to work with at any one
time, but let's make theassumption that we're going to
define a hot buyer as someonethat's going to buy a property
within the next 30 to 60 days Atany one time.
John, how many buyers do youthink an agent should be sort of
working with?
Have they in there, whetherit's a spreadsheet on their CRM
(03:30):
system, they're just top of mindwith a bunch of buyers.
How many do you think?
John McGrath (03:35):
Well, tommy, you've got the best system three
columns hot sellers, hot buyersand current vendors, pipeline
sellers, hot buyers.
That's the best system I'veever heard of because it's the
simplest and it just shows you,keeps you focused.
So, whatever you're doing, theanswer is double it, unless
someone's out there and they'vegot like 100 buyers they're
(03:55):
working with weekly or a reallychunky number.
Most people I talk to I say howmany buyers have you got on
speed dial that you're talkingto at least once a week, absent
of them being interested in theproperty?
Just following them up?
Most people come up with anumber between 5 and 15.
And I'm saying to them youshould have 40 to 50, at least
40 to 50 in most markets.
(04:16):
Maybe not every single market.
I mean Kenny Jacobs, whoseaverage sale price is 100 mil,
is not going to have 40, 50buyers.
But for most of us that's anachievable number and I
recommend that you should be intouch with your hot buyers every
week.
Now, if you break that down,it's not that many per day or
every two or three days.
(04:36):
But, tom, I think it's reallycritical because not only is it
going to bring you listings inthe future when you step into a
listing this afternoon and youknow when you look around that
you've probably got at leastfive to 10 ready to go.
Walk up starts people that youcan ring on your way back to the
office if you've got a contractand say, hey, I think I've just
(04:58):
seen the home for you.
When can we get through and seethis?
So I would be saying you know,whatever you're working with,
double it.
If you're working with 20, goto 40.
If you're working with 30, goto 60.
If you're working with 10, goto 40.
Anyway, I think it's reallycritical.
And you know who's our dearfriend that says volume negates
luck.
I don't know if it's JockoWillink or one of those guys,
(05:19):
but it's very no, it's Homozy,alex Homozy.
And I think that's very true.
The more buyers you're workingwith, the more luck you're going
to get and the more bad luckdoesn't matter, because you've
got choices.
Tom Panos (05:34):
And John, there is nothing wrong.
In fact, it's actually goodpractice to, if one of your
competitors have got a propertythat you think is suitable for
that buyer, like that's greatbuyer work, isn't it, John?
Sort of saying A hundredpercent.
John McGrath (05:49):
Tommy, look, here's what I used to do with my
buyers towards the end of myselling career.
I mean, I'm still listing, butwhen I was still doing quite a
bit of selling every hot buyer,I'd do an REA search alert and
I'd put the Tom Panos alert youknow, the Troy Malcolm alert
search alert and I'd put the TomPanos alert, the Troy Malcolm
alert, and I'd put in whatyou're looking for and every
single time a property matchedof mine.
(06:10):
But I should be ahead of thecurve there.
But another agent, I'd beringing you up.
Hey, tom, have you and Sulaseen that property in Kingston
that really looks like it's gotyour name on it?
Unfortunately I'm not handlingit, but I reckon you should go
and have a look at it.
I'll send you the link.
Unfortunately I'm not handlingit, but I reckon you should go
and have a look at it.
I'll send you the link.
For me that's great buyerservicing.
(06:30):
It's displaying an abundancementality, it's showing that you
are actually more interested inhelping them find a home than
transactionally gaining 2% outof that process and you are
building an incredible bond withthat buyer.
An incredible bond with thatbuyer.
So I think, creating an alertfor your top 20, 30, 40, 50
(06:52):
buyers and then letting themknow when something comes up is
just a great thing to do.
So I would.
I mean, the first thing I'd do,tommy, is with your buyers,
when you've identified,certainly the ones that are.
You know, we're calling themhot buyers today, some people
call them A buyers or whatever.
We're just talking about peoplethat don't have to sell.
They've got their financeapproved.
They're out every weekendlooking.
They're displaying the traitsof someone who is keen as to buy
(07:13):
, as opposed to someone thatonce a month turns up and opens.
You know when you're doing that, have a deep dive, just say you
know, tom, it's too busy.
Tom Panos (07:22):
Can you do a deep?
I'd love you.
It's super easy.
Can you do a deep dive?
I'm even happy to role play iton the bio.
John McGrath (07:28):
Yeah, good.
Tom Panos (07:28):
What are the questions that you're sort of
doing in the deep dive?
John McGrath (07:31):
So you know you don't want to do a deep dive in
the middle of an open homebecause you've only got people
around, so you're doing itgenerally on the phone.
Tom, just give me a sense.
I really would love to help youfind the right home for
yourself.
Can I just go through?
Firstly, how long have you beenlooking?
Tom Panos (07:48):
I've been looking for about a month or so.
John McGrath (07:50):
Okay, and how many properties have you seen so far
?
Ten, ten, what stands out?
Which property stands out,thomas?
Tom Panos (07:59):
The best one we saw was in Dudley Street, and what
did you like about it?
It was just the right size, itwas easy enough for us to move
in and we could do the kitchenand bathroom later.
But it was liveable and it's inthe area that we sort of want
in the suburb that we want.
John McGrath (08:17):
Okay, that went for 5.2 from memory.
Is that about your limit orwhat was the reason you didn't
actually secure that one?
Tom Panos (08:24):
Is that about your limit, or what was the reason
you didn't actually secure thatone that was.
The reason is that even withall the funds we've got with the
mortgage broker, we were tappedout at 4.8%.
John McGrath (08:36):
Okay, $4,800 is our maximum and it's no point
showing you anything above$4,800?
.
Tom Panos (08:40):
There is nothing Like we tried, otherwise we would
have gone for this one.
$4,850 is what we can buy.
John McGrath (08:48):
That's good, don't worry, we'll find one for that
that buys you a lot of goodproperty in Haberfield.
So then I would go on to findwhere are you now?
I'd say you know, tom, whereare you living now?
Tom, where are you living now?
What's the reason for your move?
What are the key drivers?
What are the must-have,non-negotiables, what are the
like-to-haves?
But they're not essential tohave because we've got a budget.
We've got to move within abudget.
(09:08):
What's the reason that you'removing?
So I really get into a deepconversation and I want to know
everything about the driver ofthe move, how they're feeling.
Can I ask you?
You know the makeup of yourfamily.
You've got kids and pets andyou know what are the priorities
.
So by the time you've done thatand of course, taking notes and
(09:29):
capturing the notes is helpfulbecause if you are genuinely
working with 50 active buyers atany one time, you're going to
need some prompts when you ringthem up, because it's a fair
number of people.
And so I just do that.
I don't do it necessarily toimpress people.
Well, not necessarily at all.
I do it because I like helpingpeople.
I know I'll pick up hints andthe conversation as we go
(09:52):
forward.
I'll get hints from whatthey're looking at and, yeah,
that's what very helps.
Tom Panos (09:58):
I like, john, I really like the way you sort of
dug a little bit deeper on whatstopped you from making a
decision on that one in DudleyStreet right.
John McGrath (10:06):
Because there's a gap.
Tom Panos (10:08):
There's a reason why, right, you're sort of saying,
oh, you loved it, why didn't youbuy it?
But then you dug even deeper.
I sort of said, oh, that's mylimit.
But you sort of threw anotherquestion, because a lot of the
times I mean I know people usethe term buyers are liars, right
, and I think what they'rereally saying is that what
(10:29):
they've said is not the truth,right?
But I just that sometimes anagent hasn't dug deep enough to
qualify, to find out wherereally a buyer's at yeah, no,
it's clear.
John McGrath (10:35):
Please don't anyone on this listening to us
use that sort of language.
Tom Panos (10:40):
It's a terrible idea.
John McGrath (10:41):
I say don't it's disrespectful, it puts you in
the wrong mindset and eventuallysomeone's going to hear you say
it about someone else and it'snot a good thing.
So, yeah, you do pick up thehints and perhaps, Tom, you
would have said to me the answerto that question.
It was just John, it was justtoo early, Like it was the first
weekend we were out looking andwe saw it, so then I would say
so, Tom, can I ask you, if thatcame up right now, would that be
(11:04):
something you'd buy today?
Now, of course, then you wouldhave probably said, well, it's a
bit more.
Anyway, We've only got 4.85.
But I'm always peeling the onion, as I call it.
I want to get to the core, thecenter.
What's exciting you?
What's disappointing?
You?
Do you have to sell or not?
Can we help you?
Rent your place out, all ofthose things?
And you only get there throughquestions and by being in the
(11:27):
moment.
It's not about having some listof questions on your list.
You've actually got to be there, focused in the moment, talking
with them and, as they give yousomething, ask them.
If there's a question to beasked, ask it.
Tom Panos (11:39):
Now can I ask you, john, there are two types of
you've got with real estateagents.
You've got the agent that's gotthe buyers.
If they're an auction agent,let's assume most of their stuff
is an auction-type method,they're collecting bidders.
And then you've got agents thatare dealing with buyers on
private treaties with fixedprices.
Can I just touch on the art ofkeeping a buyer interested in an
(12:04):
auction property, sort ofstaying close with a buyer,
making sure that buyer sort ofknows what price is going to be
competitive at auction.
Any tips on, you know, workingwith buyers leading up to an
auction?
John McGrath (12:22):
Frequency and transparency.
Stay in touch with them.
Don't wait until the auction tocheck if they're coming.
Stay in touch with them.
Keep an eye on what elsethey're looking at.
Just keep checking.
You know, the auctions in fivedays, tom, you know I noticed
you haven't downloaded acontract yet.
Do you want me to send you one?
Have you got any questionsabout it?
(12:42):
There's a strata report, youknow.
Do you want me to send you alink to buy it?
So again with questions andobservations and curiosity.
And then I'm just saying, youknow, since we last met, tom,
you know, just want to let youknow I've had another three or
four contracts out.
Haven't had any offers, but Iactually think people are sort
of starting to say that they'llpay five or more for the
property.
I know we were speaking abouthigh fours, but I don't want you
(13:04):
to arrive and be disappointed.
If you're able to get justabove the five mark, I think
you'll be competitive on the day, but I think at $48.50, it
might just go above you.
So anyway, you guys have a chatabout that.
I don't want you to overspendor overstretch yourself, but I
genuinely think it's probablygoing to come up and end with a
five in front of it and peopleappreciate that.
(13:25):
You know they say thank you,thanks for letting me know,
because the number of peoplethat are quoted high fours and
it goes to 6.5, it's justembarrassing.
Tom Panos (13:34):
Yeah, well, listen, I had a friend who's rung me this
morning, who's a non-realestate person, that is telling
me he wants his pest andbuilding inspection paid for.
I said to him mate, good luck.
He said, well, I'm letting youknow he goes.
I have an email sent to metelling me that if I had a limit
(13:57):
of 1,350, I should be coming tothe auction.
And he goes.
And there was a vendor bid putin at 1,450,000, right, probably
got passed in, right, that'sterrible.
And he said to me Tom, I'mletting you know, how do I go
about getting my $800,?
You know, because he's paid fora Peston building.
I said I don't know what to say.
(14:18):
Call the agent.
I haven't heard from him and hegoes.
If I don't get it, he goes.
I'm sending that email to theOffice of Fair Trading.
I said well, what do you want?
John McGrath (14:27):
See, tom the thing that frustrates you and I and
the OFT and NCAT and VCAT andeveryone about this is you know
you can't count an agent down.
Because they create such hypeand interest about a property it
goes for a fanciful price thatcould never have been predicted.
But when they're quoting afigure and then they take a
(14:48):
vendor bid $50,000 to $100,000above that figure a vendor bid
that's inexcusable and, by theway those that are listening
from New South Wales, it couldbe happening elsewhere.
There's a big crackdown as wespeak.
I know at some of our auctionson the weekend in the inner west
of Sydney there was a number ofOFT inspectors.
You know there's lots of talkaround about a few people at the
(15:12):
moment that have got the OFTbreathing down their neck.
Please do it for good businesspractice and ethics primarily,
but even just to keep yourlicence.
Please do not swim outside theflags when it comes to price
quoting.
Okay.
Tom Panos (15:29):
John, with three minutes left, I want to ask you
the art of showing a home.
Is there a way, like at an openfor inspection, buyers come
through, but hypotheticallyspeaking, let's assume you're
taking a buyer there, like anytips, suggestions, a way that
you should actually be talkingabout the property?
(15:49):
I mean, I can't help it.
I look at people say, oh,here's the kitchen.
I mean we know where thekitchen is.
Well, here's the bathroom.
John McGrath (15:56):
Most buyers would figure that out, wouldn't they
themselves?
I think that, yeah, look, Ilike a combination.
The first thing is I always Iget to.
It starts with you not havingan intimate knowledge on the
property, so you've got to sitdown with the seller up front.
Do intimate knowledge on theproperty?
(16:18):
So you've got to sit down withthe seller up front, do a deep
dive, understand exactly whatthey love about it, the details,
any potential that hasn't beenrealised yet.
You really have to spend timeup front getting and then
capturing it and knowing it.
So then when I bring a buyerthrough let's say, private
appointment as opposed to open,because opens a lot of people do
wander through by themselves.
So I would say you know, tom,why don't I take you through?
Because there's a few things Iknow about the home that I think
are really important and I'vehad a chance, I've been here a
(16:40):
lot over the last few weeks andI'll just give you, from my eyes
, what I think is really specialand some things that I think,
if you want, you might be ableto do and you might have some
questions.
Then what I want able to do andyou might have some questions,
then what I want you to do is,if it feels good to you, feels
like it could work, I want youto spend as much time as you
need to here.
I'm happy to.
(17:03):
I'll pop out the front.
I can make some calls if youlike and just give you the time,
because I know that this is abig decision and I really want
to make sure, if this feelsright for you, you get the time
to take it all in.
So I do like to take themthrough and give them some
insights, but I also like tothen give them as much time.
Now, of course, it's telltalethat if you take them through
and then all of a sudden theyspend half an hour there, which
is gold, um, you know they'reinterested.
(17:24):
So I think you've got to,you've got to inform people, but
then let them immersethemselves or, as maddie
steinmobile say, get thevibration of the place, and I
think they're both importantjohn.
Tom Panos (17:37):
In my first job in real estate, working for
chambers fleming at padstow agentleman by the name of john
ouston and he's passed away now,he, john he said to me there
are two things I want you tonail with buyer work, and that
was back in 1987 or 88, and Istill think it's super relevant
to now.
He said to me when a buyercomes through, simply ask them
(18:02):
have you made any offers or bidat an auction?
If he says the answer is yes toone of those two questions,
don't let them go.
You stick to them like a stampsticks on an envelope.
That person is hot in thepathway of buying.
And then the second one is, hesaid, when you walk out of a
property with a buyer and theylook back at it, sometimes
(18:26):
you've got to be the one thatprompts the pathway to actually
moving into a negotiation.
And he'd said he'd look.
He says look at them and say Ican see you're looking back at
this home.
Are you just interested in itor would you like me to tell you
how you can own this one andstart Great dialogue?
John McGrath (18:44):
I mean that sounds like it's decades old.
But great dialogue, and Godrest his soul.
Yeah, it's interesting, tommy.
I just jotted that down as youwere saying that there were
three categories of buyers whenI was very active, especially
the first half of my salescareer, and funny enough, they
were buyers from Wollongong andmost people in New South Wales
know where that is but thoseinterstates about an hour and a
(19:07):
half back in those days, a bitshorter now, an hour or so south
of Sydney, canberra buyers, youknow, three hours southwest of
Sydney.
They were the two.
If someone rang up and said I'mfrom Wollongong, I saw your ad
and I went with Courier.
I wouldn't make as much timebecause they were committed
buyers.
They would generally come toSydney and they would look at
everything, make a decision,then go back.
(19:28):
Same with Canberra buyers.
The third one interestingly,interestingly was not geographic
, it was doctors.
I found doctors had a lot ofmoney, very little time, their
work, you know, 24 hours a day,literally on call some of them,
and they're often in surgery.
I'm talking about, you know, stvincent's hospital which was
right in the middle of my mypatch there in paddington and
(19:49):
darlinghurst.
And I found that again, if I, ifI put the time and attention
into doctors as well, they wouldbe particularly good buyers
because they just wanted anoutcome and they didn't have
time to look for 12 months orsix months.
They wanted to find somethingthat's suited and buy it, and
obviously well-heeled.
So they were able to.
You know they rarely had anyproblems with finance.
(20:10):
So I think you know there weremy little sweet spots.
But just recognise, in yourpatch there will be some
indicators that someone is areally hot buyer.
But as your old boss said, youknow if they've bid or bid at a
property at auction or made anoffer on something, that's a
damn good indicator as well.
Tom Panos (20:31):
Yeah, and the other thing he used to say to me.
He says please, tom, don't gooff and door knock.
He goes.
Just look after the buyersbecause they're all over the
place.
He goes.
You don't have to go look forthem.
They come to you and he goes.
And even if they buy throughRobert R Andrew or through
another one of the officers wasLJ Hooker he goes as long as
you've looked after that person.
(20:52):
If they're a buyer, seller,your listing presentation is
good buyer work.
You'll be getting theirbusiness.
So good buyer work can actuallyget you listings right, yeah,
100%.
John McGrath (21:01):
Okay.
Just as we finish, tom, acouple of quick things to add
because this is a reallyimportant subject Idea week.
Please allocate blocks of timein your idea week for buyer work
, because a lot of people theyspend all their time on listings
and prospecting and four hoursa day prospecting and three
hours a day listing, put untilthey're sold, yeah, your job is
not even half done, it's not notdone at all.
(21:23):
So please allocate time.
For me, it was always Tuesdays,thursdays and Saturdays were the
big days, but then I had aflexible period half day Friday,
so I had at least 50% of myweek was dedicated to private
appointments.
I also had a much better strikerate at private appointments
than I did at open homes.
(21:43):
The number of people I'd have60 people through an open home
or an open home or two or three,but I'd have six people through
private appointments and I'dsell three of them properties
and the 60 people I might selltwo of them properties.
So I had a really good strikerate when I could be up close
and personal, really gauge thebody language, spend time, get
(22:03):
them through unhurried.
So ideal week.
Second thing is, if you and ateam and many people that listen
to this podcast are part of ateam regular huddles whether
it's a daily huddle, preferably,if not at least a weekly
meeting, where you sit down withyour team and you talk through
who are the active buyers, who'sentered the market in the last
(22:24):
seven days, who's made offersthat we've heard of and you can
do it as a group of agents.
I mean if you've got four orfive agents in the office and
you trust each other, whichhopefully you can do it as a
group of agents.
I mean if you've got four orfive agents in the office you
know and you trust each other,which hopefully you can and
should do it.
But certainly, if it's your ownteam, make sure that you have
on the agenda buyers, buyeractivity and what's coming up
(22:45):
for them as front and centre.
Tom Panos (22:48):
All righty, john McGrath, tom Panos, minus Troy
Malcolm, today Million DollarAgent, an episode on great buyer
work.
And, as John said, I know thatfor the last 30 years the
training in the world of realestate has been highly
influenced on get the listing.
But let's be clear without abuyer, nothing is going to be
(23:10):
sold or settled.
So signing off, see you nextweek, johnny.
John McGrath (23:16):
See you, Tom.
Have a good week.
See you everybody, Bye.
Tom Panos, john McGrath minus Troy Malcolm today
.
Welcome to Million Dollar Agent, the podcast.
Right in the heart of winter,real estate agents across
Australia and New Zealand arerugged up.
But I've got to tell you, john,the buyers are still out there,
the vendors are still out there, people want to transact and
(00:24):
I'm really excited because todaywe're going to spend 15 minutes
talking about the art of buywork and I'd love to tap into a
lot of the stuff.
Like John, if you remember whenwe were both doing real estate
decades ago more than now whenthey were just our main role,
private inspections was actuallymore than half the deals you
(00:44):
would get done were done,meeting people at properties
Monday to Friday.
The open for inspections wasthe bonus and I just think that
maybe we should go through aboutfive or six great things agents
are doing that have masteredthe art of buyer work.
John McGrath (00:59):
Yeah, tommy, you're 100% right, as usual.
The art of one-on-one buyerappointments, the art of buyer
servicing let's start there Ithink has been lost by a lot of
agents.
It's funny I was speaking to avery good agent the other day
very successful, very gooddoesn't work with us, but very,
very good and he said I wascoaching him.
He asked me, he said could youjust give me 15, 20 minutes,
(01:21):
just advice, I'm just a bit lostwhere I'm at, this guy's
writing 2 million and heprobably will write a lot more.
Anyway, I was talking aboutbuyer servicing.
I said what's your strategythere?
He said oh, john, we've beentaught just to get the listings,
and the buyers will find thelistings and that's it.
And I think a lot of theindustry is being taught or has
started to think like that, tom.
And I reckon that buyerservicing is one of the great
(01:44):
hidden opportunities to dominateyour market.
Because guess what?
Buyers become sellers.
Buyers talk to sellers, buyersare related to sellers and if
you become the only agent that abuyer can rely upon to follow
them up, call them back, offerthem properties you know, work
with them, encourage them,you're going to be, you're going
(02:05):
to start dominating the listingside.
So, yeah, breswick Whitney'sbeen very good.
I remember Ivan and Shannon whenthey left us sadly.
I wish they were still with usbecause they're great agents,
but anyway they decided whenthey were with us.
They were extraordinary atbuyer servicing and they made
that very much a mark of theirswhen they went out and they
(02:25):
started Bresic Whitney and Ithink that's been for Bresic,
that's been one of the keys tosuccess has been very, very good
bioservicing.
So opportunity for everyonelistening today to say, okay,
probably I've been neglecting,at best I've been suboptimal and
let's discuss.
You know what are some of thethings you can do to become an
expert buyer service.
Tom Panos (02:46):
Yeah, Okay, so let's start off.
John.
Let's start off with talk abouta quantity at any one time, and
it changes based on the market.
When you've got a hot buyersmarket and there's no stock and
there's lots of buyers, you'vegot a lot more hot buyers to
work with.
Then you've got another marketwhere it's more like there's a
lot of sellers but there's not alot of buyers.
(03:08):
You might have less number ofbuyers to work with at any one
time, but let's make theassumption that we're going to
define a hot buyer as someonethat's going to buy a property
within the next 30 to 60 days Atany one time.
John, how many buyers do youthink an agent should be sort of
working with?
Have they in there, whetherit's a spreadsheet on their CRM
(03:30):
system, they're just top of mindwith a bunch of buyers.
How many do you think?
John McGrath (03:35):
Well, tommy, you've got the best system three
columns hot sellers, hot buyersand current vendors, pipeline
sellers, hot buyers.
That's the best system I'veever heard of because it's the
simplest and it just shows you,keeps you focused.
So, whatever you're doing, theanswer is double it, unless
someone's out there and they'vegot like 100 buyers they're
(03:55):
working with weekly or a reallychunky number.
Most people I talk to I say howmany buyers have you got on
speed dial that you're talkingto at least once a week, absent
of them being interested in theproperty?
Just following them up?
Most people come up with anumber between 5 and 15.
And I'm saying to them youshould have 40 to 50, at least
40 to 50 in most markets.
(04:16):
Maybe not every single market.
I mean Kenny Jacobs, whoseaverage sale price is 100 mil,
is not going to have 40, 50buyers.
But for most of us that's anachievable number and I
recommend that you should be intouch with your hot buyers every
week.
Now, if you break that down,it's not that many per day or
every two or three days.
(04:36):
But, tom, I think it's reallycritical because not only is it
going to bring you listings inthe future when you step into a
listing this afternoon and youknow when you look around that
you've probably got at leastfive to 10 ready to go.
Walk up starts people that youcan ring on your way back to the
office if you've got a contractand say, hey, I think I've just
(04:58):
seen the home for you.
When can we get through and seethis?
So I would be saying you know,whatever you're working with,
double it.
If you're working with 20, goto 40.
If you're working with 30, goto 60.
If you're working with 10, goto 40.
Anyway, I think it's reallycritical.
And you know who's our dearfriend that says volume negates
luck.
I don't know if it's JockoWillink or one of those guys,
(05:19):
but it's very no, it's Homozy,alex Homozy.
And I think that's very true.
The more buyers you're workingwith, the more luck you're going
to get and the more bad luckdoesn't matter, because you've
got choices.
Tom Panos (05:34):
And John, there is nothing wrong.
In fact, it's actually goodpractice to, if one of your
competitors have got a propertythat you think is suitable for
that buyer, like that's greatbuyer work, isn't it, John?
Sort of saying A hundredpercent.
John McGrath (05:49):
Tommy, look, here's what I used to do with my
buyers towards the end of myselling career.
I mean, I'm still listing, butwhen I was still doing quite a
bit of selling every hot buyer,I'd do an REA search alert and
I'd put the Tom Panos alert youknow, the Troy Malcolm alert
search alert and I'd put the TomPanos alert, the Troy Malcolm
alert, and I'd put in whatyou're looking for and every
single time a property matchedof mine.
(06:10):
But I should be ahead of thecurve there.
But another agent, I'd beringing you up.
Hey, tom, have you and Sulaseen that property in Kingston
that really looks like it's gotyour name on it?
Unfortunately I'm not handlingit, but I reckon you should go
and have a look at it.
I'll send you the link.
Unfortunately I'm not handlingit, but I reckon you should go
and have a look at it.
I'll send you the link.
For me that's great buyerservicing.
(06:30):
It's displaying an abundancementality, it's showing that you
are actually more interested inhelping them find a home than
transactionally gaining 2% outof that process and you are
building an incredible bond withthat buyer.
An incredible bond with thatbuyer.
So I think, creating an alertfor your top 20, 30, 40, 50
(06:52):
buyers and then letting themknow when something comes up is
just a great thing to do.
So I would.
I mean, the first thing I'd do,tommy, is with your buyers,
when you've identified,certainly the ones that are.
You know, we're calling themhot buyers today, some people
call them A buyers or whatever.
We're just talking about peoplethat don't have to sell.
They've got their financeapproved.
They're out every weekendlooking.
They're displaying the traitsof someone who is keen as to buy
(07:13):
, as opposed to someone thatonce a month turns up and opens.
You know when you're doing that, have a deep dive, just say you
know, tom, it's too busy.
Tom Panos (07:22):
Can you do a deep?
I'd love you.
It's super easy.
Can you do a deep dive?
I'm even happy to role play iton the bio.
John McGrath (07:28):
Yeah, good.
Tom Panos (07:28):
What are the questions that you're sort of
doing in the deep dive?
John McGrath (07:31):
So you know you don't want to do a deep dive in
the middle of an open homebecause you've only got people
around, so you're doing itgenerally on the phone.
Tom, just give me a sense.
I really would love to help youfind the right home for
yourself.
Can I just go through?
Firstly, how long have you beenlooking?
Tom Panos (07:48):
I've been looking for about a month or so.
John McGrath (07:50):
Okay, and how many properties have you seen so far
?
Ten, ten, what stands out?
Which property stands out,thomas?
Tom Panos (07:59):
The best one we saw was in Dudley Street, and what
did you like about it?
It was just the right size, itwas easy enough for us to move
in and we could do the kitchenand bathroom later.
But it was liveable and it's inthe area that we sort of want
in the suburb that we want.
John McGrath (08:17):
Okay, that went for 5.2 from memory.
Is that about your limit orwhat was the reason you didn't
actually secure that one?
Tom Panos (08:24):
Is that about your limit, or what was the reason
you didn't actually secure thatone that was.
The reason is that even withall the funds we've got with the
mortgage broker, we were tappedout at 4.8%.
John McGrath (08:36):
Okay, $4,800 is our maximum and it's no point
showing you anything above$4,800?
.
Tom Panos (08:40):
There is nothing Like we tried, otherwise we would
have gone for this one.
$4,850 is what we can buy.
John McGrath (08:48):
That's good, don't worry, we'll find one for that
that buys you a lot of goodproperty in Haberfield.
So then I would go on to findwhere are you now?
I'd say you know, tom, whereare you living now?
Tom, where are you living now?
What's the reason for your move?
What are the key drivers?
What are the must-have,non-negotiables, what are the
like-to-haves?
But they're not essential tohave because we've got a budget.
We've got to move within abudget.
(09:08):
What's the reason that you'removing?
So I really get into a deepconversation and I want to know
everything about the driver ofthe move, how they're feeling.
Can I ask you?
You know the makeup of yourfamily.
You've got kids and pets andyou know what are the priorities
.
So by the time you've done thatand of course, taking notes and
(09:29):
capturing the notes is helpfulbecause if you are genuinely
working with 50 active buyers atany one time, you're going to
need some prompts when you ringthem up, because it's a fair
number of people.
And so I just do that.
I don't do it necessarily toimpress people.
Well, not necessarily at all.
I do it because I like helpingpeople.
I know I'll pick up hints andthe conversation as we go
(09:52):
forward.
I'll get hints from whatthey're looking at and, yeah,
that's what very helps.
Tom Panos (09:58):
I like, john, I really like the way you sort of
dug a little bit deeper on whatstopped you from making a
decision on that one in DudleyStreet right.
John McGrath (10:06):
Because there's a gap.
Tom Panos (10:08):
There's a reason why, right, you're sort of saying,
oh, you loved it, why didn't youbuy it?
But then you dug even deeper.
I sort of said, oh, that's mylimit.
But you sort of threw anotherquestion, because a lot of the
times I mean I know people usethe term buyers are liars, right
, and I think what they'rereally saying is that what
(10:29):
they've said is not the truth,right?
But I just that sometimes anagent hasn't dug deep enough to
qualify, to find out wherereally a buyer's at yeah, no,
it's clear.
John McGrath (10:35):
Please don't anyone on this listening to us
use that sort of language.
Tom Panos (10:40):
It's a terrible idea.
John McGrath (10:41):
I say don't it's disrespectful, it puts you in
the wrong mindset and eventuallysomeone's going to hear you say
it about someone else and it'snot a good thing.
So, yeah, you do pick up thehints and perhaps, Tom, you
would have said to me the answerto that question.
It was just John, it was justtoo early, Like it was the first
weekend we were out looking andwe saw it, so then I would say
so, Tom, can I ask you, if thatcame up right now, would that be
(11:04):
something you'd buy today?
Now, of course, then you wouldhave probably said, well, it's a
bit more.
Anyway, We've only got 4.85.
But I'm always peeling the onion, as I call it.
I want to get to the core, thecenter.
What's exciting you?
What's disappointing?
You?
Do you have to sell or not?
Can we help you?
Rent your place out, all ofthose things?
And you only get there throughquestions and by being in the
(11:27):
moment.
It's not about having some listof questions on your list.
You've actually got to be there, focused in the moment, talking
with them and, as they give yousomething, ask them.
If there's a question to beasked, ask it.
Tom Panos (11:39):
Now can I ask you, john, there are two types of
you've got with real estateagents.
You've got the agent that's gotthe buyers.
If they're an auction agent,let's assume most of their stuff
is an auction-type method,they're collecting bidders.
And then you've got agents thatare dealing with buyers on
private treaties with fixedprices.
Can I just touch on the art ofkeeping a buyer interested in an
(12:04):
auction property, sort ofstaying close with a buyer,
making sure that buyer sort ofknows what price is going to be
competitive at auction.
Any tips on, you know, workingwith buyers leading up to an
auction?
John McGrath (12:22):
Frequency and transparency.
Stay in touch with them.
Don't wait until the auction tocheck if they're coming.
Stay in touch with them.
Keep an eye on what elsethey're looking at.
Just keep checking.
You know, the auctions in fivedays, tom, you know I noticed
you haven't downloaded acontract yet.
Do you want me to send you one?
Have you got any questionsabout it?
(12:42):
There's a strata report, youknow.
Do you want me to send you alink to buy it?
So again with questions andobservations and curiosity.
And then I'm just saying, youknow, since we last met, tom,
you know, just want to let youknow I've had another three or
four contracts out.
Haven't had any offers, but Iactually think people are sort
of starting to say that they'llpay five or more for the
property.
I know we were speaking abouthigh fours, but I don't want you
(13:04):
to arrive and be disappointed.
If you're able to get justabove the five mark, I think
you'll be competitive on the day, but I think at $48.50, it
might just go above you.
So anyway, you guys have a chatabout that.
I don't want you to overspendor overstretch yourself, but I
genuinely think it's probablygoing to come up and end with a
five in front of it and peopleappreciate that.
(13:25):
You know they say thank you,thanks for letting me know,
because the number of peoplethat are quoted high fours and
it goes to 6.5, it's justembarrassing.
Tom Panos (13:34):
Yeah, well, listen, I had a friend who's rung me this
morning, who's a non-realestate person, that is telling
me he wants his pest andbuilding inspection paid for.
I said to him mate, good luck.
He said, well, I'm letting youknow he goes.
I have an email sent to metelling me that if I had a limit
(13:57):
of 1,350, I should be coming tothe auction.
And he goes.
And there was a vendor bid putin at 1,450,000, right, probably
got passed in, right, that'sterrible.
And he said to me Tom, I'mletting you know, how do I go
about getting my $800,?
You know, because he's paid fora Peston building.
I said I don't know what to say.
(14:18):
Call the agent.
I haven't heard from him and hegoes.
If I don't get it, he goes.
I'm sending that email to theOffice of Fair Trading.
I said well, what do you want?
John McGrath (14:27):
See, tom the thing that frustrates you and I and
the OFT and NCAT and VCAT andeveryone about this is you know
you can't count an agent down.
Because they create such hypeand interest about a property it
goes for a fanciful price thatcould never have been predicted.
But when they're quoting afigure and then they take a
(14:48):
vendor bid $50,000 to $100,000above that figure a vendor bid
that's inexcusable and, by theway those that are listening
from New South Wales, it couldbe happening elsewhere.
There's a big crackdown as wespeak.
I know at some of our auctionson the weekend in the inner west
of Sydney there was a number ofOFT inspectors.
You know there's lots of talkaround about a few people at the
(15:12):
moment that have got the OFTbreathing down their neck.
Please do it for good businesspractice and ethics primarily,
but even just to keep yourlicence.
Please do not swim outside theflags when it comes to price
quoting.
Okay.
Tom Panos (15:29):
John, with three minutes left, I want to ask you
the art of showing a home.
Is there a way, like at an openfor inspection, buyers come
through, but hypotheticallyspeaking, let's assume you're
taking a buyer there, like anytips, suggestions, a way that
you should actually be talkingabout the property?
(15:49):
I mean, I can't help it.
I look at people say, oh,here's the kitchen.
I mean we know where thekitchen is.
Well, here's the bathroom.
John McGrath (15:56):
Most buyers would figure that out, wouldn't they
themselves?
I think that, yeah, look, Ilike a combination.
The first thing is I always Iget to.
It starts with you not havingan intimate knowledge on the
property, so you've got to sitdown with the seller up front.
Do intimate knowledge on theproperty?
(16:18):
So you've got to sit down withthe seller up front, do a deep
dive, understand exactly whatthey love about it, the details,
any potential that hasn't beenrealised yet.
You really have to spend timeup front getting and then
capturing it and knowing it.
So then when I bring a buyerthrough let's say, private
appointment as opposed to open,because opens a lot of people do
wander through by themselves.
So I would say you know, tom,why don't I take you through?
Because there's a few things Iknow about the home that I think
are really important and I'vehad a chance, I've been here a
(16:40):
lot over the last few weeks andI'll just give you, from my eyes
, what I think is really specialand some things that I think,
if you want, you might be ableto do and you might have some
questions.
Then what I want able to do andyou might have some questions,
then what I want you to do is,if it feels good to you, feels
like it could work, I want youto spend as much time as you
need to here.
I'm happy to.
(17:03):
I'll pop out the front.
I can make some calls if youlike and just give you the time,
because I know that this is abig decision and I really want
to make sure, if this feelsright for you, you get the time
to take it all in.
So I do like to take themthrough and give them some
insights, but I also like tothen give them as much time.
Now, of course, it's telltalethat if you take them through
and then all of a sudden theyspend half an hour there, which
is gold, um, you know they'reinterested.
(17:24):
So I think you've got to,you've got to inform people, but
then let them immersethemselves or, as maddie
steinmobile say, get thevibration of the place, and I
think they're both importantjohn.
Tom Panos (17:37):
In my first job in real estate, working for
chambers fleming at padstow agentleman by the name of john
ouston and he's passed away now,he, john he said to me there
are two things I want you tonail with buyer work, and that
was back in 1987 or 88, and Istill think it's super relevant
to now.
He said to me when a buyercomes through, simply ask them
(18:02):
have you made any offers or bidat an auction?
If he says the answer is yes toone of those two questions,
don't let them go.
You stick to them like a stampsticks on an envelope.
That person is hot in thepathway of buying.
And then the second one is, hesaid, when you walk out of a
property with a buyer and theylook back at it, sometimes
(18:26):
you've got to be the one thatprompts the pathway to actually
moving into a negotiation.
And he'd said he'd look.
He says look at them and say Ican see you're looking back at
this home.
Are you just interested in itor would you like me to tell you
how you can own this one andstart Great dialogue?
John McGrath (18:44):
I mean that sounds like it's decades old.
But great dialogue, and Godrest his soul.
Yeah, it's interesting, tommy.
I just jotted that down as youwere saying that there were
three categories of buyers whenI was very active, especially
the first half of my salescareer, and funny enough, they
were buyers from Wollongong andmost people in New South Wales
know where that is but thoseinterstates about an hour and a
(19:07):
half back in those days, a bitshorter now, an hour or so south
of Sydney, canberra buyers, youknow, three hours southwest of
Sydney.
They were the two.
If someone rang up and said I'mfrom Wollongong, I saw your ad
and I went with Courier.
I wouldn't make as much timebecause they were committed
buyers.
They would generally come toSydney and they would look at
everything, make a decision,then go back.
(19:28):
Same with Canberra buyers.
The third one interestingly,interestingly was not geographic
, it was doctors.
I found doctors had a lot ofmoney, very little time, their
work, you know, 24 hours a day,literally on call some of them,
and they're often in surgery.
I'm talking about, you know, stvincent's hospital which was
right in the middle of my mypatch there in paddington and
(19:49):
darlinghurst.
And I found that again, if I, ifI put the time and attention
into doctors as well, they wouldbe particularly good buyers
because they just wanted anoutcome and they didn't have
time to look for 12 months orsix months.
They wanted to find somethingthat's suited and buy it, and
obviously well-heeled.
So they were able to.
You know they rarely had anyproblems with finance.
(20:10):
So I think you know there weremy little sweet spots.
But just recognise, in yourpatch there will be some
indicators that someone is areally hot buyer.
But as your old boss said, youknow if they've bid or bid at a
property at auction or made anoffer on something, that's a
damn good indicator as well.
Tom Panos (20:31):
Yeah, and the other thing he used to say to me.
He says please, tom, don't gooff and door knock.
He goes.
Just look after the buyersbecause they're all over the
place.
He goes.
You don't have to go look forthem.
They come to you and he goes.
And even if they buy throughRobert R Andrew or through
another one of the officers wasLJ Hooker he goes as long as
you've looked after that person.
(20:52):
If they're a buyer, seller,your listing presentation is
good buyer work.
You'll be getting theirbusiness.
So good buyer work can actuallyget you listings right, yeah,
100%.
John McGrath (21:01):
Okay.
Just as we finish, tom, acouple of quick things to add
because this is a reallyimportant subject Idea week.
Please allocate blocks of timein your idea week for buyer work
, because a lot of people theyspend all their time on listings
and prospecting and four hoursa day prospecting and three
hours a day listing, put untilthey're sold, yeah, your job is
not even half done, it's not notdone at all.
(21:23):
So please allocate time.
For me, it was always Tuesdays,thursdays and Saturdays were the
big days, but then I had aflexible period half day Friday,
so I had at least 50% of myweek was dedicated to private
appointments.
I also had a much better strikerate at private appointments
than I did at open homes.
(21:43):
The number of people I'd have60 people through an open home
or an open home or two or three,but I'd have six people through
private appointments and I'dsell three of them properties
and the 60 people I might selltwo of them properties.
So I had a really good strikerate when I could be up close
and personal, really gauge thebody language, spend time, get
(22:03):
them through unhurried.
So ideal week.
Second thing is, if you and ateam and many people that listen
to this podcast are part of ateam regular huddles whether
it's a daily huddle, preferably,if not at least a weekly
meeting, where you sit down withyour team and you talk through
who are the active buyers, who'sentered the market in the last
(22:24):
seven days, who's made offersthat we've heard of and you can
do it as a group of agents.
I mean if you've got four orfive agents in the office and
you trust each other, whichhopefully you can do it as a
group of agents.
I mean if you've got four orfive agents in the office you
know and you trust each other,which hopefully you can and
should do it.
But certainly, if it's your ownteam, make sure that you have
on the agenda buyers, buyeractivity and what's coming up
(22:45):
for them as front and centre.
Tom Panos (22:48):
All righty, john McGrath, tom Panos, minus Troy
Malcolm, today Million DollarAgent, an episode on great buyer
work.
And, as John said, I know thatfor the last 30 years the
training in the world of realestate has been highly
influenced on get the listing.
But let's be clear without abuyer, nothing is going to be
(23:10):
sold or settled.
So signing off, see you nextweek, johnny.
John McGrath (23:16):
See you, Tom.
Have a good week.
See you everybody, Bye.
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