Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Welcome back to Mike and Maurice's might Escape.
Let us help you escape your mind.
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All right, folks. Welcome back to Michael Morris
is mind Escape. We have episode number 214
today. We have a special guest back on
dr. Rick Strassman.
And before we get started here, he does have a YouTube channel
that's up and kicking. So go check that out.
I have the link down below. And before we, let's see here,
let's do this. To, we are going to have some
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questions for a patreon segment afterwards.
So if you're interested head on over to our And at patreon.com
slash minus K podcast for just $2 a month, you'll get exclusive
guest, episodes and segments including the one that we're
going to do today. I did upload one with Matthew
Clark, who wrote the book Botanical, ecstasies from the
last episode that we did regarding Soma.
(01:16):
And check that out. Pretty interesting as well.
And one more thing head on over to injures web dot-org.
This is the social media platform.
We created to connect open minds.
So whether we're talking about this subject or similar subjects
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interested, we are going to do agiveaway at the end of the
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Apple and take a screenshot, send it to our e-mail and we're
going to pick a winner at the end of the month.
So go check that out as well. Let's hear, let's, let's get
into this real quick, but I'm gonna do a little intro because
he does deserve it. Dr. Strassman is currently an
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American clinical associate professor of Psychiatry at the
University of New Mexico, schoolof medicine from 1990 to 1995
after Strassman, let a government approved and funded
clinical research team at the University of New Mexico,
studying the effects of N and dimethyltryptamine or DMT on
human subjects and experimental conditions dr.
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Strassman is the president and co-founder of the Cottonwood
Research Institute. He's also the author of DMT, The
Spirit Molecule in her, Paths toouter space, DMT the soul of
Prophecy and Joseph Levy escapesdeath.
So yeah glad to have you back onRick.
How are you doing? Good good.
Nice to see you again. Mike thanks for joining us.
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Absolutely. So yeah, last time we I think we
focused a lot on like the science and the new science and
it was very science heavy and I don't think we get got to idea
of the mystical or metaphysical aspects of this so I figured
figured we do a little bit of that and then maybe towards the
We'll get back into some more ofthe scientific questions but so
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something I've been just you know, theorizing throwing around
for a long time. Now has been the idea that
psychedelics are the source of our understanding and
fascination with metaphysics andI think that the could probably
go back to the dawn of civilization.
Do you think psychedelics are the inspiration for where we get
the idea of God's, you know, geometry being the building
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blocks of reality? And there might be Realms beyond
our senses stuff like that. Well I mean, if you want to kind
of broad definition of what, I think that psychedelics do is
they make the previously in visible visible so where the
location of what used to be invisible is can be debated, is
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it just a chemical reaction yourbrain on drugs or is it
perceived? Living things that exist out to
the outside of us, which were now able to perceive so.
I mean, I think that, you know, that both of those possibilities
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would fall under the larger umbrella, making the previously
in visible now visible, so that I think pertains to the role of
thought and ideas. You can have ideas and thoughts
that you aren't aware of. Or you're barely aware of, you
don't believe or true, you've looked at them and discarding
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them but they're still rattling around.
I think that psychedelics can focus a light on things that
you've been thinking but have been unconscious of, for
example, you know. So you need to have the raw
material in the first place to come up with an idea of God or
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Next move the spiritual things that we proved that we feel the
don't see. So if you know someone is an
atheist for example and they wondered about is there a god or
not? And I just need more proof.
They trip. They take a psychedelic and
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they, you know, focus on the area of Doubt.
Like I wonder if there's a God. Oh, I feel that there is a God
and I'm sure Now that there is one, so they come back from
their trip now, believing in God, but, you know, kernel of
the idea that was there originally, you know, whether
you perceive other worlds or notlike dark matter parallel
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universes, you know, I think that's a really tough thing to
even experimental the question. So, you know, it's interesting
to speculate about and some young student out there might
want to take that on as a Project to photograph the
contents invisible worlds, and then compare them to the DMT
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state, but I think we're some time off from that kind of
information. Yeah, I always ask our guests
especially when we're talking about metaphysics and
psychedelics and stuff like that.
Have you seen the gods, you know, or have you experienced
anything surreal and day-to-day Consciousness?
And, you know, I've experienced a lot of weird things but in
day-to-day Consciousness, I haven't really experienced all
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too much of that. That, you know, obviously, I've
never experienced the gods or God or anything like that but in
Altered States psychedelic States.
Deep meditation. These are some things that you
can kind of have these weird mystical experiences and
experience those things. So I do think that there is
something to that and as you mentioned it could be something
that's already manifested in themind previously that comes out
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in those experiences. Yeah, well I think that's one of
the strong points of the term psychedelic.
It means mine. Manifesting or mind exposing our
mind is closing. So it isn't the case that those
ideas are new but they're being manifest in a new way.
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Absolutely. After conducting the DMT
experiments, did you look for archetypes or similarities
between the experiments like youknow the different experiences
that subjects had? Did you find any lacrosse over
there? And if so was there anything
that you found that was interesting?
Well, you know, the typical experience on a high dose of DMT
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is, you know, it can be generalized.
Most people go through the same stages and it begins quickly if
you smoke it or injected it begins quickly.
There's a rush with a lot of in your attention and feeling of
acceleration some anxiety. And then you Awareness of your
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body as the world breaks up visually and you enter into a
world of Light, which is full ofcontent, full of material,
you're witnessing at, you're able to interact with it.
Yeah, and it's more real than real.
That's one of the Striking comments that was quite
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frequent. Yeah, and then peaks, in a few
minutes just start coming down at around 10 minutes, you able
to drink tea and answer questionnaires a 25 minutes and
you administered it intravenously.
I think, David Nicholls synthesized it for you, for
those experiments. How different do you think the
experiences between that and let's say smoking it or
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something like that? Well, a couple of our volunteers
have smoked DMT previously and they describe the intravenous
infusion. It's just a little bit quicker
that but still, it's pretty quick.
I mean, with a few heartbeats you You begin to feel the effect
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and I already touched by anotherquestion regarding that the
experience, but it sounds like Ithink we already got to that
with preconceived ideas or possible.
Biases of the brain going into these experiments.
Well, yeah, I mean, that'd be speaks to the importance of, you
know, what is intrinsic to the drug is that, you know, the
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drug, that's doing the work. Or is responsible for the
content, or is it the person? And I think the drug is a way of
that person getting in closer, touch with themselves, in the
case of DMT, you know, the Visions are quite striking and
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the feelings that one experiences in beholding.
The visions and the information that you glean, From the state.
And even the Visions can be reduced, I think to the
personality of the person experiencing it in a way,
they're kind of like Dreams. They're symbolic of other things
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that you can articulate. So, for example, if it's a
monster that that you see, you can ask them, you know, who does
that remind you of, to be your dad, it could be your boss.
So, the The Visions are specificto the person and the
interpretation of the Visions isdependent on the person.
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So that kind of indicates the importance of developing your
mind in your psychology as best you can in anticipation of
getting the most out of any psychedelic experience.
So one woman in The Spirit Molecule mentioned, surfing her
DNA backwards at light speed andthen you have Jeremy nerby who
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wrote The Cosmic certain serpenttalking about DNA and that and
you know, biological stuff mixedwith the shamanic practices and
everything. And then you have a few people
you know we've had a few people on the show mentioned the idea
that DMT entities might be some sort of epigenetic memory of
past lives or Consciousness. Why, and how do you think DNA
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relates to the DMT experience? Well, Just DMT and get well a
long time ago. Actually, there were studies
indicating that DMT intercalatesbetween the two strands of DNA.
It can if it Canyon fit in the space which is created by the
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double helix, like the two nucleotides or nucleosides, you
know. So It may be able to change the
confirmation of DNA, which wouldhave affected transcription and,
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you know, that does be speak, genetic influence epigenetic
effects, but boys, pretty speculative at that.
Yeah. And if anybody's interested in
Rick's channel that he's beefingup now, Now he does have the
cliff from the last show we did with them were more.
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He's kind of made some visuals associated with him telling us
of his experience with Terence McKenna and Graham Hancock with
his. You know, I think you mentioned
that entities and stuff like that.
Do you have your own ideas of what the entities are?
Or do you just kind of read all the research and listen to all
the people stories and keep evolving your own picture on
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that? Well, I think at the most basic
level, the entities in provide us information that we weren't
aware of before they, you know, help us, you know, things about
ourselves that we didn't know before.
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You know, you're referring to myinterview with Graham Hancock a
couple of years ago, and Sedona,and I spoke about the first time
I smoked DMT it With it was withTerrence McKenna.
And yeah, I could kind of use that as an example.
You know, the entities that I saw they were these maybe half a
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dozen humanoid like beings maybefour feet tall emerging out of a
waterfall of this flaming colorful waterfall and they just
boring on me and said telepathically now.
Do you see Now, do you see now, do you see you just over and
over? You know, so, you know, what
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does that mean? Where did they come from?
What do they mean by now? Do you see?
And I think it's a reflection of, you know who I am at, you
know who I am now, you know who I was at the time kind of
searching for, you know, for answers to very difficult, you
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know, to respond to questions, you know, nowadays.
The university also been meetingof life.
You know, what are you doing with yourself?
What's the world about? Yeah, you know.
So now, do you see now do you see?
Well, I'm not really sure. So I need to investigate further
and yeah, you know. So that is a specific message
that was intended for me to helpme focus more to become more
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aware, but it was a white personwill too.
Absolutely. In terms of the entities to some
people suggest that it's probably or could be part of our
subconscious or us speaking to ourselves through the mind or
just stuff that's like, layered weighed out down in there.
That's coming to the surface or something like that.
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The thing that I find interesting though, is that when
people describe them, they do feel external to most people,
like they do feel like somethingelse, they don't really feel
Like you I guess if that makes sense like do you think that
based on your experience that you think that their external or
do you think that could be something internal?
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Yeah, well yeah like we were talking about just before I
think it's impossible to say butthere are different models, you
know, there's a model that's internally generated, you know,
like it's in our unconscious or in parts of the brain that
aren't being activated. and we were kind of referring to that
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that model, you know, the psychological model in the case
of the beings that I saw, you know, but she could also view it
externally like these are angels, or some kind of channels
from the Divine that have been entered into your Consciousness
and are transmitting informationfrom elsewhere from God or from
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a different sphere, or what haveyou yeah you know so the Angels
you know the beans would be called Angels like in the Jewish
model anyway like Michael or Gabriel healing Angels
fortifying angels So angels are the conduit are the way that
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Divine information is transmitted to people.
And so, for example, if you're tripping in some form or another
you might be more accessible to that kind of communication that
originates in the outside and then your manifests in your mind
and it could be guide. Speaking to me through an angel,
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you know. Now do you see Now, do you see?
All right, so, a lot of people also report, you know, trickster
like archetypes or these elves, I know, you know.
Do you think that when Terrance McKenna mentioned the machine
elves at that became an archetype and people started as
a task? Yeah.
Do you think people started to Envision that and then it became
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part of our culture in a way that it does color The
Experience? Yeah, I think.
You know that it does to some extent.
Yeah. And in a way that supports an
idea I've been kind of playing with for the last school for the
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last couple of years about the placebo effect that you know, if
you keep an eye on the scientific literature, there's
one new thing every month which psychedelics help.
I mean you know, the list, your grocery month, the eating
disorders Marital Strife nature appreciation.
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I mean alcoholism tobacco abuse,depression.
So, you can think of them, you know, some ways as superplex as
super placebos, they produce theeffect that you want.
And that the environment is kindof steering you in the direction
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of. So you know, if you start your
hearing about tricksters on DMT,And then you trip, you're more
likely, I believe to encounter tricksters than may have been
the case before hand, you know. So, you know, rather than the
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exact you mechanism of, for example, the more common
appearance of the tricksters is to try and figure out what they
are saying to us. What kind of information there.
You're communicating with us about.
So do you think that's like, thefree pre notion of seeing
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something like that? Because I know there's a
commonality where people, you know, take it, and they all kind
of, they might have different experiences.
But there's some kind of Common Thread where they see something
similar, do you think that's because of their prior,
knowledge of what they're expecting before going into
that? Well, it's their expectations
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for sure, but I think also it's the raw material, the mind, you
know, you've only, you're only able, you're only able to
visualize things using visual components, you know that you
all that, you all ready to zest.You know.
(20:01):
So you can what you can't think in concrete, for example.
Think with your neurons and theyproduce they produce Visions,
you know. So if you've never seen
something in your real life, youwouldn't be able to kind of
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recreate it or use it in. In providing visual form to the
information which is being transmitted to you communicated
to you more clearly, you know? So if you if you think about the
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components I'm of the Visions isthat a humanoid thing is an
insect like thing. I believe that those images
aren't as important as the information They contain.
So the well it's almost like, you know, garbling ideas putting
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ideas in some kind of visual cover, you know.
So you're you can perceive the cover it draws your attention,
it interacts with you, you know,but it's covered that way, it
looks that way. It's In Garb that way with
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visual components in order to, you know, communicate with you.
You know, to let you start even thinking about something said
you weren't aware of before. In day-to-day Consciousness,
writing and language have a massive role on our
Consciousness and mindset. But do you think in the
Psychedelic Realms, specifically, the DMT realm,
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there is a level of understanding that transcends
writing language and even symbols and symbolism because in
DMT The Spirit Molecule documentary, it seems like
people just have this General. The people that were describing
their experiences, have this general knowledge, or this
understanding that happens, thatseems to transcend Transcend,
like I said, all that writing language, all that stuff.
(22:18):
Well, when you say transcend, you mean, nonverbal well, I can
see ya, like not like almost like psychic in a way I guess.
Or just an understanding that isnot from this realm, in which we
experience from day to day Consciousness, like like a
communication. Like I said, it could be, I
guess, psychic or nonverbal, or maybe even visual, I don't know.
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Well, you know, you can approximate verbally, certain
experiences. I think it's not quite true that
the essence of this of a psychedelic experience is only
ineffable. I think you can say quite a bit
about it as well, you but you might not be able to do a one to
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one correspondence, but you can get ideas across using Words
about your experience, you don'tneed to throw up your hands and
say it's ineffable. You just because you don't have
the vocabulary or in the interest in speaking about it or
understanding it verbally you know.
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So in a way the Transcendence ofthought is only a small it's
only a small part of it, you know.
But I think you know more profound or You know, more
convincing is the feeling of reality of, you know, the
reality sense of what you're witnessing.
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It just seems more real than real, you know.
So, in a way, it transcends every day reality at least, are
you feeling? I'm about, you know, the reality
of everyday reality compared to the DMT state, yet, it seemed
like a lot of those peoples in The Spirit Molecule out of their
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trip. Reports, I guess what I call him
that They do talk about like metaphysical or like metaphysics
things having to do with reality, the point, the center
point of everything, you know things that maybe even might
bleed into like theoretical physics and stuff like that is
what it sounds like. So I guess that's kind of what I
was getting at. It sounds like people that maybe
have never even thought about that stuff before are now being
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thrust, you know, to think aboutsome of those ideas.
Well you know remember that our volunteers were almost all
college-educated. I'm a lot of them were
psychologists and lawyers and doctors six, you know, religious
studies Majors. Yeah.
You know. So they were kind of spiritually
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oriented in the first place before they even volunteered and
in a way, you know, one of the, you know, one of the reasons
that they volunteered, In order to advance spiritual leader have
spiritual experiences. Yeah, it's interesting.
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So it seems like DMT and maybe to a lesser extent, Saul via
severely alter our perception oftime.
Do you think there's any connection to the dimensional
space time during these experiences?
Or do you think that this is just our biological perceptions
that are being altered during those experiences?
(25:39):
Well, you should also mention five methoxy DMT all along.
Salvia. And with damn t-shirt.
Yeah, it's smoked very fast-acting.
You leave your body. It's quite intense.
Quite short as well, you guys. So what was your question?
I was important. So, like, you have time space,
you know, like, you know, you know, you have the thing that is
(26:02):
time space and then you the fourth dimension and then you
have our perspective or perceptions of time which get
altered, you know, we have adrenaline rushes or somebody
has a near-death experience or psychedelic experience.
Or anything that alters our perception of time.
So, do you think that there's any correlation in these
experiences to some things that we don't understand about the
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universe yet? Or do you think that that is
just our perception of this thing that we call time-space?
What? Yeah, boy, I don't really know.
Yeah, that's a good question. We know there are studies of the
brains perception of time. I'm not familiar with the
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research but I've seen it that you know, people are going to
looking at how the brain tells time, you know.
So you would think in that case you take a psychedelic your ear
and so naturally all Altered state, it might affect the
brain's ability to keep track oftime, you know?
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But if you want to, you know, explain things from a top-down
Model, A more metaphysical model, you can say that you
entered into a different time space, continuum, or you were
able to apprehend it as a resultof tripping you being in Altered
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state. Yeah, you could perceive what
was out there all along but you weren't able to without you
without tripping or it just could be a brain or some
combination. Yeah, I think it turned out to
be I think about it a lot and obviously I think about like
time dilation the more gravity there is the more time slows
down and all that kind of stuff and how we interact with that.
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So yeah, I find that to be one of the more fascinating parts of
psychedelic experiences. Do you think there's any kuehl
or psychoactive Compound on earth that is more potent or
similar to DMT that is yet to bediscovered or do you think DMT
is going to be the Holy Grail Grail when it's all said and
done? Yeah I mean I don't know what's
(28:15):
not out there. Yeah.
Or you know what is out there? I just meant for like a
philosophy of science standpointthat we're always discovering
new things. We're always looking for that
next Paradigm Shift. We're always pushing the
boundaries Yeah, yeah, I think that's true.
But still, we're just beginning to Glimpse with a function of
(28:36):
DMT could be its regulation in the brain.
So, I think there's a lot to be learned from DMT itself.
Yeah, it's interesting, is thereanything that you've uncovered
recently or research or found interesting recently that, you
know, whether it be somebody else's research or something
(28:57):
that you've stumbled upon? And in the last year or so, or a
couple of years that you find fascinating regarding this whole
topic. Yeah, was the scientifically.
There's stuff going on. And especially this last 18
months is in commercially almostbeen going on.
(29:17):
Yeah, you're scientifically. I think I must have mentioned
that University of Michigan paper because we spoke last
year. And at the end that paper came
out in 2009, Teen. Yeah, which spoke about the
synthesis of DMT, in mammalian. Brain co-localization of the two
necessary, enzymes and the concentrations of DMT were quite
(29:42):
high in the brain as comparable to the levels of known
neurotransmitters like serotoninor like dopamine, you know.
So I think the Hunt is on For approving admt, neurotransmitter
system in the mammalian brain and, you know, you would wonder
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what that would be responsible for.
Well, the Hallmark of DMT, is the feeling of being more real
than real. So it can be this DMT
neurotransmitter system, regulates our sense of reality.
We should be kind of cool. I mean, it would be in a way the
Endo matrix it's the unkind of you.
(30:28):
In Garbin are ongoing experiencewith in particular spectrum of
perception, you know? So I think you know, once you
can turn on the DMT neurotransmitter system or turn
it off. I think we'll start to look more
(30:50):
carefully at, you know, what is reality, you know, what is real,
you know, and you could do, you know, not.
On animals that didn't produce any DMT.
You could block the enzymes which are, which are required
for DMT synthesis, you know. So, you can knock out those
jeans and you could breed animals that didn't produce any
(31:11):
DMT, which would be a very strange experience, I think, or
you'd be able to turn it on, youknow, activate your levels which
would in a way if they got to what is seen with injection?
You know, it would be disembodied as well, you know.
So I am, I think the regulation of the DMT neurotransmitter
(31:36):
system if one exists is going tobe a just a rabbit hole
scientific and metaphysical discussion.
Yeah, you mentioned the U of M study from 2019.
I think. John Dean was the one studying
all that and shoutout to John Chavez.
Who made the DMT Quest documentary.
(31:56):
We've had him on the show beforetoo.
They talked about all that stuffin that documentary.
You're in that documentary as well.
Do you think I think part of therest three discoveries
associated with that and you mention a couple of those and I
think last time we talked it wasjust a new study.
And I think I think we've just briefly touched on the fact that
it was produced and, you know, the whole brain and not just the
(32:19):
pineal gland is what the what wewere talking about on our, on
the episode we did before. But there's also this other idea
that it could Contained an error, it is contained in our
spinal fluid and probably more prevalent in the body than we
even expected before. I know there's a study, I think
Stephen Barker did at LSU, and he found levels of DMT increased
(32:41):
in animal brains. When LSD was administered.
So many psychedelics, may not even create these endogenous
elucidation. It's called the endogenous
elusive hallucinogen neuronal system Agonist Theory, which
then that stimulates the release.
Of endogenous hallucinogens, butI guess the study never got
(33:02):
published. And there's really no funding
for a lot of this kind of science going on.
Well, you know, with the commercialization of DMT among
other psychedelics, I think it'll boost in basic research as
well. So I think yeah, it's an
interesting question. You know, do the other
(33:22):
psychedelics you work, at least you have partially through the
release of endogenous DM. Hmm.
UW quite interesting. Yeah, no, I think that is kind
of interesting and I mean it's so weird that we produce it in
our bodies and given the fact that there are so many
psychoactive compounds out there.
(33:42):
The one that is probably the most potent is the one that we
produce as, you know, again thatgoes back to what you were
mentioning that could give us a better picture of, you know,
what's going on with reality in the metaphysics.
And, you know, the the mind and everything like that.
So let's see here. I also I think we touched on
(34:03):
this last time but that 2013 rodent study where they induced
a rodent into cardiac arrest andthen they found higher levels of
DMT produced which obviously you've speculated other people
speculated is this. What's at the core of the
near-death experience? Is that an endogenous doggedness
chemical release or is it a combination of things?
(34:25):
You know, how do you feel about that now looking back?
Look at all these studies. Mmm.
Yeah well that's Teddy that you demonstrated elevated levels and
the dying brain is also from 2019.
Yeah. So they induced a cardiac arrest
in the rodents and you looked attheir brains and the
concentrations of DMT went up, especially in the visual cortex
(34:50):
of the dying animal. So that supports in a way, a
role of endogenous Is DMT in thenear-death State?
Yes, yes. So that's an important Avenue,
the future research, you know, you know what that represents is
(35:14):
that Gateway or a curtain to death, is its kind of more
speculative about what that may lead to.
But at the, Release the state itself is the last thing that
you're aware of before he died, you know?
(35:36):
So, you know, once you die. I mean, we have no idea what
that's like, but if DMT is released at the time of death,
you know, that would be the lastthing you'd be aware of is
entering and into a DMT State. Interesting, shout out to the
dreaming Jaguar, shout out to RN.
(35:57):
Shout out to for, and I think Jurors Maurice.
Do you wanna give your little thought on dying in the DMT
releasing? Oh, yeah.
I've always been in the camp that when you do pass on that,
that is a bridge into the next realm if you will.
So, but don't you think that it traps you in there forever?
(36:18):
Something that feels like, eternity isn't that?
I feel like you've said that before, I didn't necessarily say
that but when you're in a dream state time seems to last a lot
longer, GE than what actually isgoing on.
So if you're if you're dreaming 45 minutes you wake up.
It feels like you were in there for a day or a week or whatever,
but in reality in this realm, you were only in that 45
(36:41):
minutes. So, yeah, one of my thoughts are
theories, would be that as you're getting ready to pass on
that, the, the flood of that DMT, which is it's interesting
that we're starting to do more tests, and see that it is being
released in animals and stuff like that nearing better dad.
Death, that you would be somehowtrap.
(37:01):
Not, I wouldn't say trap but it would help you ease into the
next phase of whatever existenceis again, that's coming from
someone that's probably more spiritual, I know than Michael,
maybe, but that's kind of nice. And I'm not spiritual bro.
No, that's fighting words, mystical.
(37:21):
Maurice is definitely more mystical.
Yeah, no, I think it's definitely a romantic thought
for sure. Do you mean romantic?
Well in the sense that, that would be the transit, like
having this transcended and loose, you know, whose nations
are psychedelic experience. Could be like, let's say,
(37:44):
Consciousness does survive deathin some fashion or another, I
mean, we know what, where does, every where does the mind go?
We know about physical things, you know, and how the universe
kind of works in that regards? But what do we know about the
mind? And Consciousness, we don't
really know a ton. So I think it would be romantic
to think that that would be the bridge or the transitional Point
(38:04):
into some next-level, or of Consciousness, or something like
that. Well, it could also be true,
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not discounting that at all.I was just saying, I romantic in
the sense that. Yeah, I mean, I something more
than this. Yeah, exactly.
And I could prove that, especially in the Sciences,
(38:26):
Would be very nice and reassuring which I don't know if
that's ever going to be presenting.
That's where I guess Faith. Would come come into play to a
degree. Yeah, we don't know what it's
like to be dead. I mean, we know what it's like
to be near death but nobody knows what it's like to be dead
but you've still it seems as if you're in a hallucinatory you
(38:51):
know, world as your last awareness and If there's a role
for DMT in that hallucinatory state, you know, it's
interesting to think of giving DMT as a dry run for death or at
least for the near-death State, you can induce it and you can
learn to negotiate, you know, within a.
(39:13):
Yeah, that's part of a lot of rituals and mysteries from the
ancient world and even some of the modern world, this idea of
dying and coming to grips with your own death, before it even
happens. And I think that usually, if you
look at like ancient Greece and they lose, Mysteries are the
sacred mushroom rituals and mesoamerica are a lot of these
things. Kind of bring that up as well.
(39:33):
We do have a question from the dreaming Jaguars.
They are asking, are you aware of the first Ascent Extended
State trials at Imperial Collegethat have just finished five
test subjects. Have undergone five sessions of
around 30 minutes of break through State.
Oh, no. No, I haven't heard from that
group for maybe a month. Okay.
(39:55):
Yeah, they ask them questions. Ins.
They told me they were well underway.
Look, I didn't get information. Well, that's very good.
That's, that's great news. Five people in a breakthrough,
state for 30 minutes. That's pretty exciting.
Absolutely. And I know, I think they're
working on trying to interview one of the people that had that
(40:17):
experience as well. I don't know when that'll
happen, but I know that that's something that they might have
been working on there. So yeah, I mean, I think when
you look at that hole, The thingthat's fascinating to.
So you know, what's happening for more than five ten, fifteen
minutes, you know, when you get to 30 minutes and then what kind
of effect would that have on youwhen you came back?
Would you have some sort of altered Consciousness from being
(40:40):
deep in there or, you know, I don't know if you have any
speculations on that. Well, I think in a lot of ways,
it'll be like drinking Ayahuasca.
I mean, if you drink enough Ayahuasca, you have enough DMT
and your brain. Rain.
That's as high as you need to get completely out there.
(41:02):
You know, there's the complicating factor of the
beta-carbolines of harming in the normally, you know, but I've
drunk some high doses of Ayahuasca and at the higher
doses it's a full-on DMT experience and it waxes and
wanes over a few hours. So I think in a lot of ways, the
(41:26):
Standard state will be like that, you know, the advantage
though of an extended state and intravenous extended state is,
you could turn it on and you canturn it off and you can moderate
the dose, you know, the level that you're at, on a new kind of
minute-to-minute basis or you 4:55 minute basis, you know, so
(41:48):
that's a valuable advantage overAyahuasca.
I know that they're, I don't know, I think it was Andrew
Gallimore, who is? Is I don't know what it's
called. I think it's something happen.
It's a, it's Elvin or and be, but it's like an extended like
methoxy version of that, where somebody that, that one sounds
to me like that could induce, maybe some psychological stuff
(42:10):
just because I've done Salvia, Iknow, you know, I'd haven't done
in a while, but when I was younger I did it.
A decent amount of times enough to know that.
Yeah, it's pretty intense. And I don't think it's as
pleasurable as a lot of the Sarah to genic receptor
psychedelics. India were feeling on something
like that like an extended Salvia trip.
(42:31):
Yeah, I'm not that crazy about you Salvia either.
Well, you know, I'm a friend of mine in La was the guy who
discovered you can, you know, vaporizing inhales oven or an A
you know, pure compound, any sense.
And I took about 10 times the the dose when I feel like it was
(42:52):
brand-new, you know, nobody knewabout it.
He said, oh, you try it. And it was a very small
quantity. Potency wise is more is much
more potent than DMT, you know, the amount of material required
for the, the full on intoxication.
Yeah, you know. So the first, you know, Vape did
(43:13):
work at all. Then I just you poured, all of
it into the pipe. I shouldn't.
Yeah, it was terrible. It was just horrifying.
It just it just put the fear of God into me.
I mean it was the most terrifying thing.
Thing of my life. Yeah, very repeat e very
fractally. But yeah, there is some like
(43:33):
negative stuff that comes up in those two and not like a - work
through it, therapeutic way, forto me at least it was more like
you said, kind of terrifying, itdifferent points and I know that
used to sell. I mean they used to sell when we
were younger at how head shops 32, x, 3, 15 x, you know, the
extracts, they would sell these sell it as, like, incense at
head shops when we were younger.I think it's illegal now, but
(43:55):
yeah. Totally got to 100x.
Ya, we know there's a diabolic demonic energy that it seems to
contain. And the other people that I
know, they're really like it, you know, they have got kind of
a hard Edge about them, at least, you know, most of them I
had, there is a feeling of everybody's out to get you when
(44:16):
one under that. So, yeah, I mean, I was thinned
out and stretched and being incorporated into this pant leg
of this 44 guy that have appeared in my living room.
Yeah. And I couldn't resist support.
Do we have a new sound like that?
Maurice is about to make the next clip right now.
(44:39):
No. So I do find that interesting
though. Because yeah, so an extended
stay like that. I don't think we have much
Merit. All right folks.
Sorry about that. We got cut out for a second but
we are back Maurice. You had your question?
Yeah, I was just asking about the movie Enter the Void I
wanted. To see if you were have.
Have seen it and it what your thoughts were, how realistic it
(45:01):
was. And yeah, pretty much just what
you thought of that. Yeah.
Well it's an interesting movie is about a guy that's on DMT.
He's trapped in a bathroom in asTokyo nightclub and easy shot
and killed and then he goes, youthrough the bardos, you know,
the beginning was intriguing. It was quite thrilling exciting,
(45:22):
the pretty accurate gangsters and Drug.
The extended your travel throughthe Bartos, you kind of lost me,
but still anything that helps get people to know more about
DMT and more people to know about it is a good thing.
(45:42):
Yeah, the wachowskis that in TV series called sense8, the first
episode of smoking DMT that's the in feature and a few months
ago there was a new release theysay.
Sci-fi time, space travel film, which you features are two stars
(46:05):
a black guy and a white guy and it involves Ayahuasca and the
pineal and the brain and DMT andthings like that.
So it is getting more mainstreamstill compared to mushrooms and
LSD and whatnot. It's still occupies kind of a
niche position. Absolute Yeah.
(46:26):
Maurice knows all the Obscure, weird, esoteric films.
A he's always sending me stuff to check out where I'm like, you
know what? Yeah, I really I enjoy the films
that you watch them, and then you might not really understand
what's going on. You have to kind of think about
it. I like that.
I like the one you told me that I watched the Upstream Color
something. Yeah.
Yeah. Pabst.
(46:52):
From somebody saying you figuredit out.
You got it. So wow, I'll have to read that
review. Maurice is going to have two
thoughts, but, you know, it's it's kind of left up up in the
air and I like movies that may or may not have a meaning.
Well, it's good that they, that the director has a meaning for,
but I also like them when they're open and where you can
(47:13):
create your own meeting and I that happens a lot with music
where you listen to a song and you might feel a mood one day
and that song might meet something to you that one day
and then you feel something different than as a different
meaning to you. I like that was open-ended type
of So yeah. What was that alien one I told
you about Jesse Eisenberg recently did, oh, yeah.
Name of it. That one was pretty weird too,
(47:35):
but yeah, it was both scientificBops.
Is there, is there anything? Any other movies, that you've
seen recently that you'd recommend that, you know, to
kind of touch on these topics? Let's see, we just watch the
Mind. Hunters smooth.
Michael love that. Yeah, I love that serious,
great. We're now watching Blacklist.
(47:59):
It's James Spader. I think my wife used to watch
that. I haven't gotten into that yet.
I, we started. I think I saw, what's this?
It's called like clickbait. It's the first thing that
what's-his-face. The vins from Um Entourage has
been in since it's kind of like yeah, it's one of those things
(48:22):
will eat. You won't guess because I'm a
pretty good guesser. What's going to happen at the
end. You definitely won't guess what
happens at the end of this. But it's interesting.
Yeah I got to find your review on Upstream Color though because
I want to see your thoughts on that one.
That's like one of my favorite movies.
I love Shane Carruth because he's his first movie primary
only had like six thousand dollars and it's a time travel
(48:43):
movie. I reckon I highly recommend that
one if you haven't seen it. Oh yeah.
Well, you almost have to see it at least twice because it's a
it's a it's a mind master. Um so in terms of back to the
DMT stuff, have you? I know you were I think last
time we talked a little bit about DMT in the soul of
(49:03):
Prophecy, is that something you're still theorizing on and
hypothesizing on? Is that whole stuff about DMT
and possible explanations that don't involve obviously
ingesting it or smoking it. Well, I spend I do spend a lot
of time in the Hebrew Bible, theOld Testament I can show you my
(49:26):
bookshelves, maybe if it doesn'tmess, things up.
See we're all. I can't see here.
Yes, I've got a lot of books andtheir and their you pretty much
all the Hebrew Bible and your commentaries on it and
discussions of the selected topics.
You're so I spend a lot of time studying the Hebrew Bible and I
(49:50):
came to that ultimately, throughmy DMT work, but it has almost
been that great of spiritual model.
The scientific models were kind of dry and in Judaism and the
notion of the Experience as laiddown in the Hebrew Bible is very
interesting and it's you know the content which I've been
(50:11):
fascinated with a lot more than the mechanisms.
You're the mechanisms are in a way, you know, wiring and
plumbing and that kind of thing.It isn't as interesting as you
know, what information is being conveyed through that mechanism
and you can access at least a lot of them.
(50:34):
Information, verbally, and you can write it down and you can
read it and you can think about it.
So, you know, I study the HebrewBible every day.
You know, there's a cycle. You can read the first five
books of every year if you if you stay on schedule and I know
there was a there was a recent discovery we did it as part of
(50:56):
our we do like sometimes we'll read like The archaeology and
science news and stuff like that.
There was a recent discovery regarding the Sea Scrolls that I
think they found it in the Cairo, genizah, I think, is how
you pronounce it, which is a manuscript with all sorts of
knowledge in there, and they found that the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Were most likely not just the essenes hiding out in the
(51:17):
desert. But most likely that was like a
place where celebrations or thisone specific event would happen.
Almost like people would have like a pilgrimage and come there
and all congregate there. But I found that that was kind
of interesting. Yeah, yeah, the Dead Sea Scrolls
are Great. You know, they give you an idea
what was going on towards the end of the second temple.
(51:39):
The beginning of your Christianity.
There's even a few mentions about in Jesus and some of that
material. So yeah.
Yeah and you know there are versions of the Bible are
different slightly you know likethe book of Isaiah you know
there's a version which was being used then that is
(52:00):
substantially different than thecurrent version.
Staying. So let's wrap it up here, really
appreciate your time, we are going to do a patreon segment
with you. Some people sent in some
questions and we're going to tryand answer those but anybody
watching or listening please go subscribe and check out Rick's
YouTube channel. If you type just type in Rick
(52:21):
Strassman it's the first channel.
Look at that pops up or we have the link all the way down below
the video in the information so you can go click on there and
it'll send you there. Also check out his books, DMT,
The Spirit Molecule. Cool.
DMT is slow prophecy. I have the links down below to
those books as well, and his website as well.
Is there anything else you want to plug?
(52:44):
No, no, no. You know, that's the standard
material. I've got a face on Facebook on
as well so, you know, check it out.
You like me? Yeah, I know you post a lot of
stuff. I follow you on Facebook as
well. I know you're always posting
science articles relating to thestuff and just interesting stuff
(53:05):
in general. So go find them on there and
before we get on out of here head on over to our patreon at
patreon.com slash might Escape pod.
Just two dollars a month, you'llget exclusive guest episodes and
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And one more thing head on over to injures web dot-org, this is
(53:26):
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(53:48):
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And thank you Rick so much for your time and it was great to
have you back on you sir. There's a pleasure.
Well one question. Do I need to stay on the narrow?
We'll wrap it up here and then we're just going to record the
(54:09):
other things separately. So just yeah, hang on where you
are now and you. To do anything, I'll do
everything for my end. So, okay, so you'll be reading
me the questions but on Skype. Yes.
Okay. Alright well thank you everybody
so much. We love everybody.
Stay safe out there and we will catch you next time.
Peace, peace.