Paradigm Shifters: J. Robert Oppenheimer (American Prometheus) Episode #249

We sat down to discuss J. Robert Oppenheimer and his impact on humanity and science. This is the 1 episode of our new series Paradigm Shifters where we highlight people that have changed humanity with their minds. Oppenheimer was famous for leading the Manhattan Project, but he was also a philosopher and the head of Institute for Advanced Study. He mentored and taught many of our brightest minds. His story is one of genius to triumph to tragedy.  

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Episode Transcript

(00:07):
Welcome back to Mike and Maurice's mind.
Escape. Let us help you escape your
mind. All right folks.

(00:40):
Welcome back to Mike Maurices mind Escape.
We have episode number 249 tonight.
This is the first episode of a new series.
We are starting, it's called Paradigm.
Shifters, I mentioned this in the past where we're going to go
through and discuss some of the top Minds throughout history,
and how they've shaped humanity and science technology

(01:03):
philosophy and just you know, altered humanity and positive
ways. So tonight we're going to be
discussing J Robert, Oppenheimer, who was the head of
the Manhattan Project? And the Manhattan Project is the
project that developed the atomic bomb during World War
Two. So this should be an interesting

(01:25):
episode. And actually, if you've been
paying attention, Christopher Nolan has been working on a
movie called Oppenheimer. Should be out, I think next
summer, which is based on the book where a lot of the
information that I source for this episode was taken from,
that's called American Prometheus and I highly
recommend that book. So if you have not already go,

(01:46):
download American Prometheus inaudible by the book, do
whatever you got to do, but go check that out.
Before we get started here tonight, if you were interested,
I'm not going to go through the whole Spiel, but we have all of
our stuff to support the show onour link tree down below.
So, if you want to support our show, we've got a patreon.

(02:08):
We've, you know, the Has exclusive episodes on there.
We've got a merch store, if you want to leave us.
A nice review on Spotify or iTunes or apple podcast, we'd
really appreciate that. We are going to do the T-shirt
giveaway. Again, I just haven't had time
to figure that out yet. So I will announce that next
episode. And, you know, we try to do one

(02:31):
the other night with Daniel and we were having some connection
issues. So we're going to have Daniel
back on maybe next week or laterthis week.
We're going to try and squeeze that in on Wednesday at 2:30
p.m. eastern time. We're going to have Bobby,
azarian on, who is the author ofthe book?

(02:55):
The Romance of reality, he was recently on Rogan, not that long
ago. And we're going to be talking
about life and complex systems in the universe and all sorts of
great stuff pertaining to In physics and all that kind of
stuff. And I'm just trying to think.
Shout out to Shane Buddy. Shane from Twitter's going to be

(03:19):
helping a lot with this stuff. So going forward more recent I
have a busy couple months comingahead of us with the documentary
and just personal things going on.
So anybody else that you know, wants to reach out and help in
any sort of way, feel free to send us a message or an email.
But again, shout out to Shane. And yeah, we've been doing a

(03:41):
lot. I've been doing a lot of Twitter
spaces to if anybody's interested just follow me on
Twitter at Mike escape and we'vebeen doing tons and tons of
Twitter spaces which are Super interesting and fun so go check
that out. But what's going on?
Maurice? How are you?
Yo yo doing well what's the goodword?
Nothing much just moved. Set up a new studio.

(04:06):
Working out. The, the technical difficulties,
which are abundant when you set up your desk.
I could I set everything up the exact same way as I had it
before. And, of course there's some sort
of issues and you got to go through and work those bugs out,
you know? So yes, sir I know you've got a

(04:28):
new system as well. So we're both be working out the
Kinks here. Next couple weeks, I'm sure.
So be patient with us, everyone.We're figuring it out.
We'll get back on track and get in the groove again here.
But, yeah. So this is part of our new
series, as I mentioned before, it's called Paradigm.
Shifters, you know, the term Paradigm Shift, was popularized

(04:51):
by American philosopher, Thomas Kuhn, who's the author of the
structure of scientific revolutions?
Oceans, most people don't know that but the idea is older, you
know, like you can go back to you know even like allegory of
the cave Plato's allegory of thecave for this idea of
paradigm-shifting stuff. So I thought that this would be

(05:13):
a good one because it's something I don't know why I got
into this topic recently, but I was just so curious about the
atomic bomb and the Manhattan Project.
And there's something like Very interesting to me about
Oppenheimer not just as work as a scientist but just who he was

(05:35):
as a person. So that's why I really recommend
American Prometheus. Because yeah, talks about all
the about the Manhattan Project and the secrecy aspects and the
scientific aspects of the atomicbomb.
But also goes into his personal life.
Like who was he before? Who was he after what did the
whole process due to them and stuff?
So I find that I found that very, very fascinating.

(05:57):
Um, so what I would like to do is just kind of start through,
I'm not going to go through the whole thing, but I thought we'd
go over some main points from like his early life work our way
through the Manhattan Project and then, you know what happened
later in his career in life and go from there.
I mean what did you what did youthink or have you ever thought

(06:20):
about this topic worse? About the, but the A-bomb.
Yeah, the atomic bomb or, you know, the process or anything
like that. Has it ever crossed your mind?
I thought probably less about the actual construction of it.
But more of the, the effects that that they didn't suit after

(06:41):
the dropping of it, I'm A Big World War Two buff, so hey, I
think actually, a D-Day was justpretty recently obviously,
that's not one the bomb was dropped, but I think that was
it. That's a no.
Yes, I think. But Yeah, man, it's pretty
interesting. It's a, you get hired to do
something and I don't know, you know, more about that, the

(07:03):
actual guy and the events that ensued after he took on that
project. I so I'm interested to learn
about about Oppenheimer and all the inner workings.
He, he went through, but I know the Manhattan Project.
They, you know, they assembled all the best Minds that they
could because the world was at War and they need Sway this,

(07:28):
this this war and if we wouldn'thave created it, who knows, what
would have happened? You know what I mean?
So, we'll get into that too. There is some misconceptions and
things that I used to think to that after reading, this and
things became a lot clearer in terms of how things actually
went down and the timelines of things and everything.

(07:50):
So yeah, we're going to go through it here.
Just trying to think. Before we get started to, if
anybody has a, you want to make any suggestions for a candidate
for this new paradigm, shifters series, you know, send me, I
have a whole list of ones that Iwant to get to but if you have

(08:11):
an interesting one that you knowmaybe it's not on my list, I'll
take a look at it. I can't make any guarantees but
if it's something that resonateswith me, I'll definitely
consider it. And also we have not forgot
about Mysteries metaphysics. We will be getting back to that
as well as we Style. Of part 3 ready to go for what
was Soma? That series will be working on

(08:33):
those as well going forward. And that like button baby give
us some love, you know, tickle it and will thank you later.
Absolutely. And I just want to save,
everybody was patient to the last few weeks.
We love all of our fans and patreon members and listeners,

(08:53):
and everybody. So thank you for being patient
and like I said, we're to get back to it here.
R. So so a little bit about his
early life and background. He was he was like really
interested and and mineralogy and rock collecting since he was
five and actually I think he he was taking this some sort of

(09:16):
like Association I think in New York maybe when he was younger
and he like blew people's minds with how much he knew about
rocks at such a young age and stuff.
So he was just kind of like one of These Geniuses or savants
from kind of like a young age, you know, he skipped a few

(09:38):
grades when he was younger. I think he skipped like part of
eighth grade and like, third or fourth grade.
So, I mean, he was obviously a smart, dude, he went to Harvard
for physics and studied under Bridgman.
He went to Cambridge studied under or went to Cavendish and
studied under the guy who split the atom.

(10:00):
Let's see. He didn't like experimental
physics, which I found was interesting when he became a
little bit older him. And his brother would hang out
at, in this part of, you know, the desert in New Mexico, they
called it pero Caliente which means hot dog.
And they would do horseback riding they would smoke and

(10:23):
drink and do all that kind of stuff.
He studied at the University of göttingen, I think that's how
you pronounce that Center for theoretical physics in Europe.
Let's see, here. He also studied with Enrico
Fermi Wolfgang, Pauli and Werner.
Heisenberg, he received his PhD in 1927 and was well respected.

(10:48):
When it comes to a quantum physics.
He wanted to be like the American Bridge of These because
like Europe was killing it with these.
With the physicist, back in the day, he wanted to be like this
American, you know, Bridge of knowledge to connect to that.
So he was early on in his life, he was a terrible.

(11:11):
Even though he was a professor, he was a terrible teacher but he
eventually got better as he got older.
And then little bit later on, hehad like groupies that were
students and they would hang outat his house and party almost
like think of Something from like animal house or something,
where like party all the time. Well, like the professor's for,
you know, friends with students or hanging out with students

(11:34):
kind of a thing and, you know, it's kind of a cliche, but I
mean, it's true. It's a classic scene to.
I love it. Then you have the Great
Depression happened that actually didn't affect him
because he had a trust fund. I think his dad was like a
wealthy. I think I had something to do.

(11:55):
Textiles or something like that.But he noticed the effects that
the Great Depression had on his students and he became a
communist sympathizer. So you know, some speculated he
was a communist. But I mean he posits that he was
just sympathetic to the cause and majority of his dull light

(12:19):
adult life until he was 1940, hewas supporting some of these
Smaller factions of the u.s. of communist organizations but then
he heard the horror stories coming from the Soviet Union and
then he also became associated with the Manhattan Project so he

(12:39):
kind of shifted his philosophieson politics and economic systems
and became more of a you know a patriot or somebody loyal to the
US. So let's see here.
This is this is the the The beefhere, the Manhattan Project.

(12:59):
So there's a lot of interesting things I used to think about
this, that, after reading this book, I realized I didn't really
know much about it at all. And I hear people talking about
it too. I think one of the most things
that I hear when, when this is talked about, and I don't know
if it's, this is credited to JoeRogan because he's talked about

(13:21):
this a lot, but the after they dropped the atomic bomb, he's
quoted as saying I've now I've become death destroyer of
worlds, which is from the Bhagavad Gita.
And again, I don't know when exactly that was popularized but
that did that did come from thatwhole thing.
But I'll read a couple of passages that he quotes to that

(13:45):
are I think a little bit more interesting from the
bhagavad-gita. He was really into Eastern
philosophy and Hinduism and The Vedas and that kind of stuff and
he would quote it. No, the, the bhagavad-gita and
Vedic texts a lot. Yeah, so, so pretty straight.

(14:05):
Yeah, the idea for creating the atomic bomb actually came from a
race to win the war. So, this wasn't like somebody,
you know, came across some sort of Discovery and then they're
like, oh I've made a new, you know, thing or whatever.
This was specifically, Ali came out of this this race to win the

(14:28):
war and it went from semi theoretical to a realistic
possibility, really quickly, youknow, his nickname oppenheimer's
nickname was AA P. So if you hear me, say oppie,
it's just oppenheimer's nicknamed, The Scientist during
error that were part of the Manhattan Project, they called
they didn't call it the atomic bomb or whatever they called it

(14:50):
the gadget which I thought was kind of funny things called the
gadget. So how we got to that point
though? So 1939, three German physicists
discovered nuclear fission. And through that process, it
then became again, it went from theoretical to an actual
possibility Albert Einstein who he he got FDR's attention

(15:17):
because you wrote a letter telling him that the Germans had
reached out to him to join the race to develop the atomic bomb.
However, Einstein was denied security clearance in the US and
1940 because he was considered apacifist so, and he later on, he
become critical not of Oppenheimer like they were

(15:39):
friends, but he saw oppenheimer's kind of spinning
his wheels, and in regards to the political Forum with all
this stuff when he could have really just taken a step back.
Back and not gotten as involved as he was.
So we'll talk about that though they developed the advisory

(16:03):
committee under uranium, which they were just trying to enrich
as much uranium and plutonium aspossible.
I think, I think I read two in there that, you know, like all
of the resources at this time from, you know, during WWII at
this point we're being funneled towards this project.

(16:24):
So I know they needed a ton of Silver.
They needed to enrich the uranium plutonium.
So a lot of effort went into that whole thing, one of the
main other people from the Manhattan Project was Lieutenant
General Leslie Groves. Let's see here, he was born in

(16:44):
1896 and died in 1970. He was a United States Army
corpse of engineer. He oversaw the construction of
the Pentagon and directed The Manhattan Project.
What? Let's see here.
So he was actually kind of closewith Oppenheimer and even though

(17:05):
Oppenheimer kind of had a, you know, with the whole communist
stuff back in the day gross kindof felt like he was trustworthy.
He didn't really feel like he was somebody to be worried
about. He felt like this guy cared
about America wanted to help thecause and you know, yeah.
So that that'll play. Into this whole thing later.

(17:27):
And I think when the movie Oppenheimer comes out, what's
that guy's? Is that Cillian Murphy that his
plane Oppenheimer. I think Cillian Murphy and then
I think Leslie Groves in this this movie is going to be played
by Matt Damon if I'm not mistaken.
Cillian Murphy. Yeah.

(17:50):
The old scarecrow. Yeah, and actually, have you
ever seen peaky? Blinders?
No. Is it good?
Yeah. It's definitely worth checking
out. Of course.
Matthew Modine. Xand this to and Emily Blunt.
Yeah, what is that? Melee blood play kitty?
Yeah. Yep.

(18:11):
So Kitty is rapid, Robert oppenheimer's wife will get into
that hole. That's all part of this thing
to. So, so Oppenheimer join the
Manhattan Project in 1943, he Actually selected, Los Alamos in
the desert. So most people know Los Alamos
now is like top secret or, you know, nuclear facility but it

(18:35):
used to be just an empty space in the desert.
And Oppenheimer knew that area, well from horseback riding and
and just being in that area and they selected Los Alamos.
And then, towards the end of theproject, there was like, 6,000,
people living there, which was it, was this like startup City
in the desert? Which I find kind of crazy that

(18:57):
this, you know, they picked us this place in the desert and
then turned it into something. And now it's, you know, one of
the most recognizable names whenit comes to, you know, American
Technology and secrecy stuff. So they definitely followed
them, they wiretapped them, theyspied on them.
Of course, you would imagine with all the security clearance

(19:18):
and stuff, that's kind of stuff going on.
What I, what I found was most interesting about this whole
thing with the atomic bomb was that so you know, you hear about
uranium all the time and whatever but they had different
options. I didn't know that this was the
case, but there's different options when it comes to this so

(19:41):
fat man, which, you know, is themost famous I think was
Hiroshima was plutonium implosion, but then little boy
was Rhenium. So they had two different types
right there, off the bat and I think the Trinity was plutonium
implosion as well, if I'm not mistaken, so in 19 or yeah,

(20:03):
July, let's see here. Let's see, let me pull up the
trinity. Yeah, so Trinity was July 16th
1945 and the test could be seen the first test could be seen

(20:25):
from three states. Wow, the United States detonated
23 nuclear devices between 1946 and 1958 at seven different
sites. This was part of but the the
from 1946 to 1958 was that Bikini Atoll?

(20:46):
Which is a Pacific island and they destroyed this island.
And they've had to move the people off there a couple times,
of course, and they those ones. So this was after though, the
1946 that's after World War Two,but they did keep testing from
1946 to 1958. And, you know, they basically

(21:08):
ruined this, this island and they detonated them in the air
underwater. So yeah, anyways, so back to the
atomic bomb. So a B-29, the Enola Gay
dropped, the first one on her Oshima 66,000 people died.

(21:32):
And then Nagasaki the second onewas 44, deaths.
Basically when you look at how all this kind of played out the
thing that that I didn't understand too is like, so

(21:55):
there's this other thing, I guess they dropped Napalm Tokyo.
It's created some huge fire thatkilled like 100,000 people to.
So even though the bomb did tonsof damage and like one Fell
Swoop, they were slick using Napalm at At point and that
actually had a bigger effect, which is scary.
That's intense. So, let's see here. 1949 the

(22:25):
Russians tested their first bomband it was assumed that a spy
must have been given tips based on the u.s. program.
This is important because we're going to get into that in a
second. So they pick specifically picked
Los Alamos and they built what'scalled S1.
I'm sure you've heard of like S1S2 S4.

(22:47):
You know, like the Bible is our thing.
I think that's S4, you know. So yeah.
So yeah, lots of secrecy stuff. So you have JT Randall and Henry
boot. They were the ones that
developed radar during WWII. They were British scientists.

(23:08):
Most people don't know this, butradar was also developed during
World War Two. So, we have two massive
innovations that happened duringWWII that pertain to war one
being the atomic bomb to being radar.
When it came to, you know, the the mines and the intelligence
that was associated with gettingthe best.

(23:30):
Thinkers associated with the Manhattan Project you had Nels
bore. He was snuck out of Europe.
I think he's from look, it up that either was he from Denmark
or Nell's borby Ohr was he from Denmark?

(23:51):
Or is he from the Netherlands? I can't remember.
You pay Nash Danish, okay. And he, he was stuck out of
Europe to help the Americans, but then, when he came to
America, he went like, he spoke great to the press and they were
like, oh, what are you here for?He's like, I'm here to help them
create some sort of new weapon or something.
So he's already like leaking stuff out.

(24:13):
He had a big mouth. Supposedly, yeah.
So there was a lot of negotiating between the
scientists in the military to get this done.
Obviously scientists needed a certain process to happen and
the military were trying to keepeverything together and
organized and also secret. And the scientists wanted to be

(24:34):
comfortable though so they couldget their stuff done, which was
important and obviously through the scientific method and
bouncing stuff off of each otherOppenheimer taught at Berkeley
prior to the Manhattan Project. Let's see here.
As I mentioned General, Groves was in charge, so there's two

(24:57):
spies that were part of this program where they were, you
know, they were communist sympathizers Hall and Fuchs they
were Russian spies, and in 1950.They were caught.
So this is important to most people think that there couldn't
possibly when we talk about likesecrecy stuff, whether it be,
you know, this military stuff orUFOs, or whatever, they think

(25:20):
that Everything is just so compartmentalized, there's no
way information could ever get out that maybe that's the case
with some things. I don't know, but what I found
interesting was there were leaksas part of this.
There was communication between people and sympathizers of other
groups and organizations and countries and things like that
you did have people pretending to be loyal Americans that were

(25:43):
part of these programs that werespies and things like that.
So that does happen. That's not just in the movies
and that's not just made up thatstuff is real, and it did
happen. The scientist that were part of
the Manhattan Project were nervous about the implications
of having, and using the atomic bomb.
Obviously, I mentioned the plutonium and uranium ore and

(26:07):
enrichment. And that took tons of time and
resources. Basically, Oppenheimer was the
one that pushed hard for the implosion, the plutonium
implosion design. So again, they had different
options and Oppenheimer was the one that said Let's do this one.
This seems like the most reliable and let's see here.

(26:30):
So, yeah, the scientist, you know, I'll keep coming back to
this, but like, most of the scientists were are, obviously,
worldly people, Scholars. They have a sense of history and
empathy, and a lot of scientistswere super idealistic and an
empathetic and that's where you get kind of like, some of them

(26:52):
being Eunice sympathizers or sympathizers of other countries
and philosophies and things likethat.
But Oppenheimer wanted the people like so we'll get into
this but we didn't need to drop the atomic bomb.
Meaning to win the war. I think that's a misconception.

(27:12):
We had our dear Germany had already surrendered and Japan
was we were everybody was going after Japan and they probably
wouldn't have lasted very long. They were actually trying to
negotiate, you know, a way out of this whole thing.
So Germany surrendered and then eight days later, Hitler killed
himself and they continue to work on the atomic bomb.

(27:35):
Even after that happened. So that they hadn't even had it
together at that point. So, yeah, this is, yeah, I
mentioned the, the Napalm and Tokyo with the fire and then.
So through this process, anotherthing is Russia was not
Necessarily are like super friendly allies but they were

(27:57):
kind of allies in the sense thatGermany tried to invade them and
they were obviously on the world's, the good team.
You know, during World War Two and they were also trying to,
you know, create the atomic bomb.
Germany was also trying to create the atomic bomb.
They had Heisenberg who I mentioned earlier, not Walter

(28:18):
White, sorry. I've been watching a lot of
breaking bad lately. And in terms of you know, you
look at what was happening in the world that actually the u.s.
developing, the atomic bomb is kind of what created this arms

(28:41):
race in the cold war between theUS and Russia.
So will that will be an ongoing theme there.
To this guy sucks cellar-door szilard.
Try to kill the Manhattan Project multiple After he was
the one that was an early proponent of it again, because
he saw, what was the potential of it?

(29:02):
Oppenheimer wanted to warn the Russian ahead of the time of its
use. So he like give us some of these
other countries, a heads up, like, look at this is what we
have. We're going to use this kind of
a thing, but they didn't really do it in that way.
Again, it wasn't just Oppenheimer that like, sat in a
laboratory and graded sitting, there was a huge project, I'd
like some of the top Minds. So some of the famous Amos names

(29:25):
that people might recognize associate with the atomic bomb
would be Enrico Fermi whose mostfamous, I guess when you hear
fermi's Paradox. That's where that comes from,
but he was a Italian physicist. You would Richard Fineman, who I
think, a lot of people know who Richard feinman.

(29:45):
Has Nels Bohr, who I mentioned earlier, Edward Teller, Super
Famous Compton Condon Condon is A from the Condon report,
woohoo. The government hired him to
basically debunked UFOs, which Ifind interesting Phil Morrison

(30:06):
and then there was others. The scientists first thought of
having like it came up during this process that the scientists
had this idea to create an organization to check in and
regulate, you know, nuclear materials and Engineering kind
of like What you see. Now like when you see the US

(30:26):
dealing with some of these othercountries, that are trying to
develop nuclear technology, nuclear weapons, nuclear power
plants, things like that. This is the idea for all that
came during this time when they were developing the atomic bomb
like hey this is going to be a thing.
We need to have some sort of oversight to make sure this
doesn't get out of control and people start getting crazy with

(30:47):
this, so I don't know. What do you think so far?
It's all interesting II. Thought that The bomb was the
main proponent. I did that, you know, turn the
tides of the war but that just shows how ignorant I am in that
regard. I love that.
That's why we're doing this. I mean, I thought that too, I

(31:07):
thought that the yeah, that's like, hey this, you know, but no
we didn't even Oppenheimer. Wanted the first one at least to
be dropped. Just to show the world like,
hey, this is what we created. This is changing the future.
This is changing the future of War, it's changing the future of
Humanity. This is important.
This is huge. And if we're not careful, you

(31:29):
know, he basically he didn't want to leave it just in like
the military's hand. So it's some secretive thing
where it's like they could bust it out, you know, and their own.
I also think that there's a big misconception because it's if
you're under the if you're underthe idea that you know, we
needed the drop it, it may That's a bad move, you know what

(31:53):
I mean? Like, oh, we needed to do this
10, the war rather than it was already kinda ended and we
didn't need to do it. That's that would probably push
people off, you know? And it's just leaves a bad taste
in your mouth. So you know it's all about
morals and building up that yourthe way you perceive things and

(32:13):
yeah it gives us like more of a reason to do it.
So I totally understand how the Three makes you believe that,
because I think a lot of people believe that we needed the
bombs, the win that. Well, I mean, in there certain
level and I don't want to say this in like a way but, like,
propaganda. Like, it was like, hey, let's,

(32:37):
you know, I just feel like back then it was There wasn't as many
eyes and ears. I'm That Kind of a thing.
Like now, I think you would havea very hard time getting away
with creating that and doing that.
Now, if, if you were to do it now, right?
Like, there'd be so much more oversight, he'd have so many
more people against it. You you would have people like

(32:59):
knowing what was going on ahead of time trying to prevent, you
know, that kind of thing. So I think it's the time and the
place was crucial in the sense that I don't know if that if
somebody created that. Now if it could even be Toast
without behaving like some serious backlash.
Absolutely. But yeah, I mean you mentioned

(33:21):
it to I mean, you know, you knowabout World War 2 and stuff.
And I thought I did too until I read this book and I'm like oh I
didn't know a lot of this actually.
So the truth came out. What?
What did you think? What did you think when you When

(33:47):
what the part where I was talking about the scientist.
Did you know that all those scientists were associated with
us? No, not at all.
I just knew Einstein had a part to play.
He had a Viet have one of the smallest Parts though.
All he did was write a letter because he, they weren't, they
didn't allow him to really get in the mix because of his
background and everything in theway he thought about the whole

(34:09):
topic. Mmm.
Yeah. Because the story that that you
get told is like, If Hitler wasn't so against the Jews, then
Einstein would have never came to America.
And then they bomb would have never been filled.
At least that's the story that Iheard.

(34:29):
And there we go. Yeah, that he didn't them.
Yeah, if he didn't write that letter though, I mean, it might
not have been in FDR's subconscious or mindset, so I
don't know. I might say it was some truth to
that, but I thought he had a massive hand and creating this
thing, which no, that's horse. Pucky.
Yeah. Where were you?

(34:50):
Oh yeah. They created.
They wanted to create some sort of organization of oversight for
nuclear devices. So the physics of the atomic
bomb was going to be discovered soon, even if we didn't do it
first, this again, this was a race.
There was other countries looking into it.
I think even the Japanese had their own atomic bomb program

(35:13):
but they didn't have the resources and the Personnel that
we did. So, is a huge point that The
explosion was was going to reach10 to 20 at 20,000 feet and
would be visually amazing as it was devastating.

(35:34):
You know. Again the plutonium implosion
model they called it the gadget clearly it was it was a real
Gadget. Yeah.
Bob Wilson said that they were going to test test it and they
should invite the Japanese to show them what they were up
against. And they considered hitting the
Imperial Palace which is kind ofcrazy if you think about.

(35:59):
That's that I would, but intensebut they were going to also
contact China, France and a few other countries to show what
they have created. And they wanted suggestions and
feedback, but that never happened.
The Japanese wanted to keep their Emperor and Constitution
after surrender that was their bargaining chip.

(36:19):
So the Japanese were trying to come to terms With us with some
sort of surrender and we said nobasically we're still we're
still coming after you which again, they did.
That didn't need to happen. All those people didn't need to
die. I think, you know, now we look
at War a little bit differently,but back then like how many
innocent people died that they had no connection to other than

(36:43):
just living in a geographic location.
I mean, it's kind of its kind ofmessed up.
Yeah. When you have more of a
perspective on life to like you,look at it yours like Like these
people. They first of all, they're
fighting for their country, the same as we are, they don't know
what's right or wrong. They're getting fed lies.
So it's just like, who's right? Who's wrong?
Even the soldiers? You know what I mean?

(37:04):
Like, I have I have remorse and I have empathy towards them, but
let alone. The the I don't, I don't know
how many people are actually killed but a hundreds of
thousands and Hiroshi. Aman.
I think you total well like 100,000 people in Tokyo died.
From that napalm event. And then, like 100 to 150

(37:27):
thousand total from the bombs. I mean, you're talking like
250,000 just from those three things.
Yeah, it was quite a horror in our.
Yeah, we won the war but at whatcost I ask you Michael at what
cost just seriously. Sorry here.

(37:50):
I mean it's like it. Insane though.
Because you just when you when you get brought up in school and
stuff here at your just taught that America is 100% right, and
like never question, we did werethe best we did all the good
things and stuff like that and then you start to really dig
down deep and understand what's going on and I don't know, I

(38:13):
think WWII also it's got a big big, big spot in a big lesson in
our in our play books because that's when Of these UFOs and
stuff. Obviously, we talked about a lot
of UFOs and that's when they were there started way more
sightings and things of that nature.
So, I don't know, I've always been drawn to it and the more I

(38:34):
learn about it the more it becomes interesting.
Hmm. So yeah.
Oppenheimer. Pick the test site and they
dubbed it Trinity based on a John Donne poem.
It's let's see here. Batter my heart three-person'd
God. And check that out in the

(38:56):
bhagavad-gita, obviously the Creator or the Brahma Creator,
Vishnu and preserver Shiva. The Destroyer they had.
So it was like, 18 by 24 miles and they had to evict ranchers
for that site. Trinity was the code name and

(39:17):
again, the first detonation tests or was at 5:29 a.m. on
July 6. 1949. General Groves wanted to
preserve as much of the plutonium and materials as
possible. Let's see, here are copies,
brother? Or Oppenheimer had a brother

(39:38):
named Frank. Frank was also like a physicist
/ engineer. You know.
Oppenheimer was more in like thetheoretical aspect of things and
you know Frank was more like somebody that takes things apart
and put some back together, kindof a person.

(39:58):
And he worked in the radiation lab and helped with the Trinity
site and late May 1945. So, during this process, so
again, people know the, the quote from the bhagavad-gita
that but I ever says where it's I've become death destroyer of
worlds. But so there's a quote, it says
from the Bhagavad Gita says in battle in Forest at the

(40:21):
precipice in the mountains on the dark great.
See in the midst of the javelinsand arrows.
In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame in Good.
Deeds a man has done before defend him Oppenheimer
translated that quote from Sanskrit from the bhagavad-gita.

(40:42):
Wow. So guys, I got to see big boy
and little, I don't know if theywere the shells.
Did you ever see those? When we went took?
Our class trip to DC, we know they have, I'm gonna Museum.
I got no. Well, they already know what a
different middle school. And I got in trouble and I
wasn't allowed to go on that trip.
Yeah, I'm sure you did. So, but yeah, the whole thing, I

(41:06):
mean, look, I just keep thinkingabout like, the innocent
Japanese people, and I know a lot of people died in World War
Two. Yeah.
I mean tons of people died. Obviously all the people Hitler
killed, which is disgusting and then all the people that were
just innocent bystander. I just I don't know.
It sucks to think about that. That many people were subjected

(41:29):
to that but I guess hopefully wecan get Beyond this whole
warring phase of humanity and move on to some sort of peaceful
face. I mean, I guess we gotta rise
above baby. But so, you know, during the
test site, they took bets on whether it would work, they were
actually concerned. That it might ignite the

(41:50):
atmosphere, believe it or not, that this bomb could ignite the
whole atmosphere and create somesort of massive issues for the
planet. So that that was like a serious
concern of theirs. But then they, somebody created
some sort of model or mathematical.

(42:11):
Shouldn't that they didn't thinkthat that was going to happen
eventually. So well that just goes to show
our smart how smart we are. It's like we don't know what the
hell's gonna happen, let's drop this bomb.
We might kill the whole world. Right.
So I mean the world, the world was at War, there was a lot of I
mean think about it. What's that show on?
TV was like man in the High Castle where it's like well yeah

(42:32):
that if Germany and Japan won the war and it's like like a
dystopian future kind of a thing.
And I mean You could you could say maybe that that's you know,
I mean Germany and Japan have bounced back.
I mean, and I think that, they understand their own history and
it seems like they're not very fond of the things that they've

(42:55):
done in the past. And I don't think we're very
fond of things that we've had todo in the past either.
So, yeah, until they try it again.
Well, Richard Feynman was so, like during like, the, the
Trinity test, Richard Feynman was handed dark glasses, but he
denied, And then observed through the truck windshield,
they saw saw white flash that turned into yellow and then

(43:19):
turned into man-made thunder on the horizon.
Bob server was avert was observing using welding glasses.
He was still blinded and saw a violet column the night turned
into day and a chill turned intowarmth.
But then the darkness returned with a purple glow.
Frank and oppie, it had penetrated their eyelids, it was

(43:43):
very bright and purple Frank worried it was going to engulf
them and most terrifying thing was that the perp was the purple
electric Cloud that ensued Oppenheimer grew tense and it
was about to go off and his facerelaxed and relief at the moment
of that Nation afterwards, he had what was known as a high

(44:05):
noon strut and he describes his emotions.
In pedestrian terms to a reporter and said, unborn people
would owe their life to it. So obviously, he thought he was
doing something. So we mentioned all these
innocent lives that were lost. So supposedly, he's saying that,

(44:29):
by using this thing, it might bring some sort of maybe end of
the war order afterwards, that more people will live because of
it, as a Goes to dine in the future so I don't know.
Yeah, you always give yourself these.
These ideals that if I didn't dothis, then more people are going
to die and all that kind of stuff.

(44:50):
It's tough, It's complicated, it's hard to put yourself in
those shoes. You know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. It says, oh, so then you have
the famous quote that everybody says, which was now I've become
death destroyer of worlds which is true.

(45:14):
The boom came 100 seconds after the Flash.
Ken Bainbridge Was Heard saying,now we are all sons of bitches.
Fineman was supposedly afterwards, on the hood of a
Jeep, beating his Bongos. They were all happy at work.

(45:34):
But then afterwards like shortlyafterwards set in that this was
a serious weapon and it was going to be used to kill a lot
of people in the war. Again there's is great of as
achievement as this is. There's also a very somber side
of it and you'll see this and how it weighs on Oppenheimer in
a few minutes here. So, as I mentioned before, they

(45:58):
wanted to alert some of the other countries ahead of time or
at least, that's what the scientists wanted to do.
But I guess Truman, casually mentioned this to Stalin when
they had a meeting that we had anew weapon and Stalin wished
him. Well, and basically kind of like
Overlook the fact that what was being told to him, Oppenheimer

(46:23):
regretted that we didn't use it to kill.
All Hitler or used it on Hitler and the Nazis that was one of
his main regrets is that it was used in Japan after Hitler had
already killed himself and the Nazis has surrendered
oppenheimer's mood and personality had changed
permanently going forward after this, obviously.

(46:45):
So now we get to after the war in the Manhattan Project.
After the war, he was deciding to teach again at Berkeley or
Caltech and he chose Cal Tech, which he had links to both of
those while he was still Contracting for the government.

(47:06):
He was very depressed, as anybody would just the thought
that you created this thing thathad such, you know.
Again, it was good for the US and, you know, our allies and a
lot of the people in the world, but you're still Doing a lot of
people. So even if it's Justified which
I don't think there's any justification killing innocent
people but let's just say he hadjust killed military people.

(47:31):
Even if it was just military people I don't know how that
wouldn't have a severe psychological effect on you.
I think that would. Yeah, because again they think
the same thing when you do that,your country is the best.
So it's not like we're, it's notlike they're like, I don't know.
It's weird. And then so then you have the
development of the atomic energycommission and the McMahon act

(47:56):
Oppenheimer was elected to the general advisory committee on
this topic which he, you know, had a good reason to be.
Let's see here. The other people that were on
this committee were a little in Thal James Conant, Enrico Fermi,

(48:18):
I Robbie, Harley row and load lead to bridge.
Let's see here. So, again, through this process
of dropping in testing, these bombs Oppenheimer was very
worried about an arms race with Russia, and that's exactly what

(48:39):
happened. So he saw that coming in 1946
Stalin, gave a speech about rearming and worried about
Espionage. Let's see here.
There was Berkeley campus spies and then the U.s. government.
Let Oppenheimer know about a Canadian spy Scandal about a

(49:03):
British physicist in Montreal, who worked for the Soviets and
then we get to this thing. This is probably one of the most
important things because this ispart of his downfall, there is
this thing called the shell shock Chevrolet Affair.
He had this friend Chevalier something.
I don't know how to pronounce it, but he had a friend named

(49:24):
Hoboken cheveley are. I believe is his last name.
mmmmm and he met with him while he was / doing the Manhattan
Project and Hogan was part of like I think communist
organization or at least had ties to it and this other guy
Elton had pressed Hoboken to askOppenheimer if they could pass

(49:48):
information onto the Soviets andOppenheimer of course, turned
them down and turned it down, but he didn't like Word, it the
way that exactly happened, supposedly to, you know, his
advisors, which was Leslie Groves.
And then later on, it'll come back to bite them because, you

(50:11):
know, you how you'll have McCarthy in the Red Scare coming
up here, which will be important.
But so this idea that he was trying to protect his friend,
who was a still a communist by not disclosing, all this
information about being approached by him that that had
a serious effect even though Though he didn't do anything.
That would be considered questionable.

(50:32):
It's still just even not even addressing and letting your
advisors know was a big deal. So let's see here.
Oppenheimer was friends with George Marshall.
Let's see here. Oppenheimer got a little cocky
after the war OWI was on to Hoboken.

(50:53):
It's a mentioned his friend token.
Let's see here. How can return to Berkeley?
And then move to Nuremberg as a translator during the trials,
Berkeley denied Hoke and his tenure.
So George Elton, and Hogan were questioned by the FBI about

(51:15):
oppie. During the war, the Russians
wanted photos during the processof the, you know, creating the
atomic bomb and Hoke and signed an act could at affidavit So
let's see here ho can also wondered how the FBI knew all of

(51:36):
this. So ah Pete old Oaken that he
told them however he did not disclose all the information
that would implicate him with any sort of serious allegations.
The Alton scheme which is the scheme to get Oppenheimer to
help out or pass information. Along to the Soviets was 1943,

(51:59):
when Chevalier was asked, Oppenheimer said that, that was
treason and he wanted no part ofit.
So then we get to this guy namedLouis stross.
Soloist Ross is will become kindof the downfall of Oppenheimer
Strasse asked. Oppenheimer to be the head of

(52:20):
the Institute of advanced studies at Princeton, which the
advanced studies at Princeton was.
Einstein's home. So mean you you know, you see
these movies of like Einstein liked riding his bike around,
like Princeton or whatever Einstein's home or like home
place was The Institute of advanced studies and

(52:43):
Oppenheimer, became the head of it.
There's actually an all afterwards when we're done with
this episode, I'll add a couple.There's a very few movie or like
interview Clips with Oppenheimer, but one of them is
specifically him talking about this Institute of advanced
studies. Which you've always liked
brilliant. People that he's talking about,
they're like kind of up and coming and they eventually
become Geniuses. So I'll try and add that to the,

(53:06):
a link to the bottom after the episode.
But so he was given this house or this estate called Olden
manner. As he took over the position of
the head of the Institute of advanced studies sometime during
the war. He had an affair with this woman
named Ruth Tolman for, you know,who was a 11 years older than

(53:28):
him and she was a psychologist. So, this is something that will
be used against him later on to he definitely had affairs with
women and slept around and stufflike that.
But, you know, he kept it all under wraps until it came out
when during his security clearance hearings, Let's see

(53:49):
here. So they they had to investigate
Oppenheimer again because of thechevalley airfare but they
didn't feel they needed to devote deny Oppenheimer security
clearance. The FBI would not renew Frank's
clearance. However Frank his brother was
more deeply entrenched, with thewhole communist movement back.

(54:09):
Then in 1947 Oppenheimer was given to Q clearance.
He still felt like a Marked Man.However, Hoover was coming for
him because of his communist past.
So now we move onto. So everybody knows the atomic

(54:30):
bomb. This is the other thing that
gets conflated know. They start to work on something
called the hydrogen bomb, where the h-bomb oppenheimer's because
of the Manhattan Project and theway that that made him feel did
not want anything. Thing to do with the hydrogen
bomb, over the process of creating the hydrogen bomb.

(54:52):
Yet we still went on with the whole project and and then in
November of 1952 we tested Mike,which was the first hydrogen
bomb, Did you know that about the hydrogen bomb?
Yeah, I know it was after And we've never you have we ever.
We never use that on anyone. All right, I mean, we done a

(55:14):
shitload of task but yeah, I don't know if we've, I don't
think we've ever dropped one. November 1953, the FBI received
a letter saying, Oppenheimer wasa communist spy most likely more
due to his opposition. This was more likely due to his
opposition of the hydrogen bomb project.

(55:35):
That, you know, somebody sent this letter oppenheimer's
security clearance was revoked, and there was an investigation
by a three-man panel, this was during the McCarthy Red Scare
to. So the hole McCarthy Witch Hunt
thing. This is where Oppenheimer gets
taken down somewhat. So, just a side note, you know,

(55:59):
Oppenheimer was going through some serious issues.
He was depressed and like earlier in his life, he was told
he was schizophrenic from a doctor.
However, he refuted the diagnosis and refused any sort
of, you know, I based on what I've read, I didn't get that
Vibe about him. So, I mean in Psych, Psychiatry
and psychology or, and way different places than they were

(56:20):
back. Back then, as well.
So, his brother Frank was blackballed after the war
because he was a communist and could not get a teaching job,
especially back at Berkeley. He was, he was harassed.
And he retreated to his cow farmwith his wife and he made a
living as a Rancher. He never read it.

(56:42):
Anybody out, even though they made him, you know, they made
his life hell basically Kitty. Who was Robert's wife was a
Alcoholic and a mean and aggressive person.
Robert knew she had issues and he acted as her personal like
psychologist. However, he relied on her as his
Confidant. So you know he knew that he

(57:04):
could always talk to her about all this stuff Louis stross who
was the aec chair and in charge since there was a Republican
president at that point they were just cranking out nuclear
weapons. So Lewis Strauss was kind of
this. Like, I think, I think Robert
Downey jr. Is playing them in that new

(57:25):
Oppenheimer movie. If I'm not mistaken, I didn't
see his name on any of that stuff but maybe he's a
supporting actor. Yeah.
So look up, Louis Strauss strossin there.
So FBI director Hoover Admiral Strauss and McCarthy considered
looking into Oppenheimer more deeply because of all these past

(57:49):
connections. To Communism strassen board and
colluded to go after Oppenheimerstross, give Borden and Laplante
what they needed to prepare a report 1953, the aec voted for
to one that he was loyal to the us, but they also voted for to

(58:09):
one that he was a security risk.So they had to revoke a secure
security clearance, one day before was set to exist expire.
So here's the man. That helped us create the atomic
bomb to win a war at the cost ofhis own mental health and
ideals. And now we're we go, we do the

(58:33):
Witch Hunt thing and go after him because of his history.
Even though we clearly didn't doany of the things, they said
they did. Because these idiots who are in
charge, you know, and later on stross will get called out and
taking down a couple notches. But it just says they had now he
is playing Strauss. Okay, so in nineteen, or let's

(58:59):
see here, oh so 282, Los Alamos,scientists sent a letter
protesting them. Revoking, Oppenheimer security
clearance. Oppenheimer became more famous
after the trial than he was before the trial, which was
already pretty famous. And lots of people came to his
defense. It was said that my McCarthyism

(59:21):
got Oppenheimer without actual McCarthy coming after him, which
was kind of interesting. It's true.
I mean, they came after him for being a communist but it wasn't
McCarthy. They didn't want him having
anything to do with this process.
So, so in Oppenheimer, kind of let this whole thing go down,
without a big fight. He didn't really put up a
massive fight or kind of go against the whole thing.

(59:45):
Like, you would imagine somebodyin that position.
I noted here my notes, it was Socrates like the sense that you
know, we've talked about this before Socrates was accused of
corrupting the Youth of Athens and his punishment was death and

(01:00:07):
cut you know Socrates could havegotten away.
He had a couple people trying toget him out of Athens and he
could have gotten out of the situation but he decided to
almost like a martyr. He just decided like You know,
I'm going to make a point through this and it seemed like
Oppenheimer was going to do a similar thing here.

(01:00:28):
The Kennedy administration when they came into power, they tried
to help restore oppenheimer's reputation.
They gave Oppenheimer the EnricoFermi award.
And then he after that, he resigned from Princeton and The
Institute of advanced studies one year before his retirement
and this is towards the end, he eventually got lung.

(01:00:50):
Answer from our yeah lung cancerfrom years of spoke smoking.
It spread to his esophagus 1966 67.
He was told it was spreading quickly and aggressively.
Let's see your 1972 or 1967. I'm sorry.
He died at 62 from throat cancer, he died in his sleep and

(01:01:15):
he was cremated. His wife Kitty died in 72 from
an embolism and her ashes were scattered in the ocean and near
Saint John. So him and his wife, vacationed
a lot and the island of st. John's and then sad, but like
hurt his daughter to his daughter, Toni hung herself.

(01:01:36):
She was never married or whatever.
She wanted to have a profession the FBI, but she was denied
because of her father's past complications with the security
stuff. So lots of tragedy towards And
it's almost like some sort of, like, family Karma thing, right?
You know, whether you believe inkarma or not, if you put out

(01:01:57):
something like that, I would find it hard to believe that you
would have a, some sort of amazing life after you did
something like that, where it was needed, it was actually good
in some ways. It was bad.
In other ways, I just don't findthe situation as like anyone
coming out of that like Stellar,right?
I mean I do you think about the yak-yak could be again?

(01:02:21):
You know, they say like that stuff passes through your DNA to
so, who knows? Well, I'm just saying like it.
Like think about it, like, just the the energy that you put out
afterwards like, you know, he was very depressed, they were
coming after him, you know, a whole thing.
You know, you know I also think like obviously being a smoker

(01:02:45):
you know, is not a good thing that contributed but like was
there any sort of radiation fromthe bombs?
You know what? Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah. Is there any sort of other, you
know? Issues with that kind of stuff.
I don't know. Right.
But yeah just a very sad somber end to what was kind of like a

(01:03:06):
interesting life of an interesting man and lead up to
something that helped shape the world to where it is today.
One thing I will say from watching like a couple videos on
him, talk the ones that are on YouTube and stuff, He seemed
like a very even though. Yeah, he definitely cheated on

(01:03:28):
his wife. He definitely created the atomic
bomb. There was still something like
very good and him that you couldtell he was tortured by some of
these things that he had done inhis life.
And that I don't necessarily know if it's regret, but it just
felt like somebody who knew thatthey had to do something, but by

(01:03:49):
doing those things that it wouldnot turn out in their favor.
Kind of Thing. So yeah, you know I think
everybody has good and bad within them and it's just it's
up to you to choose what path you're going to go down.
That's that's that's the way it is.
I'm I mean this whole thing though you know this has changed

(01:04:10):
the way we do War, it's changed the way we can create energy
it's changed the way everything.I mean think about like what war
was like World War one with liketrenches and the person to
person battle you know like evengo back not even that much
further. Like 100 years before that dudes
were still running at each otherwith like bayonets.

(01:04:32):
And I tell War should be baby the guns that that the Those are
for Darfur the week. It should be hand-to-hand
swords. That's what I'm talking about.
Jeez, you're taking a brave heart to Vikings.
Yeah. Cuz that because then the room
but I think about like, even like the Revolutionary War,

(01:04:53):
like, how were like Game of Thrones for that matter?
Like like think about Game of Thrones, they just line up in a
line and like you're done. If you're in the front line,
that's that's yeah. Well, I think the Revolutionary
War we actually started to breakthat mold.
That's what it was. What allowed us to you?
Yeah, we did those numbers but yeah, yeah, I died again.
I'm more of a simple pin in thatregard.
I think we should give we go back to the old school hand to

(01:05:14):
hand combat. Then the real Victors will go
the spoils. If you will because anyone can
drop a bomb and I blew iterate, you know.
Now it's more about technology and all that stuff.
Well that's him saying that's the thing that's changed the
landscape of everything that we know it to be for thousands of
years. It was conducted in a somewhat
similar way, maybe there is In weapons and evolution of

(01:05:38):
weapons, but it was kind of still conducted in the same way.
And here's this, dude, it's likehere.
You can create this thing. That'll literally Light Up the
Sky for miles around. You know, you dressed like that.
David, that's the Cold War. It's a battle of the mind.
It's not, it's not about the Brute Force anymore, it's more
about who will kind of, who do you have on your side and who

(01:05:59):
will kind of brains? Do you have working behind all
that? Well that was the other thing
too. When we when everybody found out
that we had created this Atomic bomb everywhere is like we got
to get all the scientists. Let's gather up all the sudden
just we can get from whatever countries.
We can get it, became like a race to get the top thinkers and
Minds in the world, because that's where everything was
going was science, you know, breakthroughs in technology and

(01:06:23):
science is where everything's ateven now.
I mean, who knows what kind of crazy stuff they're doing with
AI and robots and stuff behind the scene.
So, Yeah, it's it's it's an interesting one.
So we're going to be doing more of more on this guy.
Or what's well no just oh yeah that people change the Paradigm.
Yeah. Paradigm shifters, you know like
anybody that has you know you could say like here let me pull

(01:06:46):
up a list of ones that I wrote down, that I do have anybody off
the top of your head, you can think of that you might want to
add to the mix. Well, we do.
I mean, I I'm more focused on like the Arts and stuff.

(01:07:08):
So I would say like an especially am not to be compared
in earning, my realm would be like an Alfred Hitchcock, you
know. He definitely changed the
Paradigm of movies and what theycould be and the way people
stole the story. So, yes, I would look like doing
on him. That'd be.
Yeah, I would, I would do that. You know, you could say like,
maybe like a Plato or Socrates. Oh, yeah, absolutely Giordano
Bruno, Steve Jobs. Yeah, Jerry Garcia.

(01:07:35):
You know, Thor and Stein Galileo?
Yeah, there's a ton of them. We could do.
So, that's cool. Yeah, I mean, these don't have
to be like, super, long intense,and actually, the book American
Prometheus is was super long. I don't know, I downloaded the
audio book version because I cando multiple things at once when

(01:07:58):
I listen. But yeah, I mean, it's
definitely worth a read. I really it's one of the better
books I've read in a long time nonfiction, and I read mostly
nonfiction so. Well, looks like the movies
coming out next July. So we'll have to do a review of
the movie. I'd be like, I'm very interested
to see what this is all about. I bet you it's going to be sick.

(01:08:19):
I mean I yeah has Christopher Nolan ever made anything that's
shitty he's made some things that are subpar but you know for
the most part they're always die.
Very nice cinematic cohesive piece.
It's just I guess it's which would you gravitate more
towards, you know? Yeah, so it's going to be sweet
but hopefully it's not very convoluted but I think that

(01:08:44):
story's kind of, I don't know. I it's interesting that lets
it'll be interesting to see how he takes on something that's a
true story rather than most of his work that are, you know,
Yujin, I don't know if I read that this is gonna be his last
movie or one of his last movies or something.
Yeah. Wow, yeah.
Well he might be going out with a bang, no pun intended, pun

(01:09:08):
intended but again definitely check out American Prometheus
which is the biography of J. Robert Oppenheimer and the J at
the beginning. His name I don't even know if I
mentioned. It's Julius Julius Robert
Oppenheimer. He's got himself his own song.
Yeah, a fish too, don't take another step, but I really like

(01:09:36):
I said, I learned a lot about World War 2, from reading this
book and I cross-referenced things, you know, to I read a
couple other small biographies or short biographies on
Oppenheimer as well as, you know, watching all the YouTube
videos and commentary and thingslike that just reading through.
You know, different pieces of information and very interesting

(01:10:01):
stuff. And again I don't think it went
down, people thought that it didand there was definitely spy
stuff happening. And yeah it's just it's amazing
that the narrative that people think that they have is a kind
of like similar, right? Like I think most people would
probably think that we dropped the atomic bomb 10 WWII, right?

(01:10:23):
Yeah. Yeah.
I'll talk to my cousin. He's a big boy.
World War 2 Dude too. And I you know I thought I knew
a lot, but the more you dig in the more you see how much there
is to know So yeah, that's an interesting aspect.
And then the types, you know, I didn't know that there is, you
know, I knew about there's obviously plutonium and uranium
but I didn't know that they weretrying to debate whether which

(01:10:44):
one would be more effective and reliable, and whatever.
And yeah, the plutonium implosion one was the game
changer But yeah, you know, and they go through a lot of
oppenheimer's connection to you know, like I said like Eastern

(01:11:05):
philosophy Hinduism the BhagavadGita, they mentioned, a bunch of
his quotes and philosophies and how correlates all this stuff.
So it's a really interesting look on the topic.
But yeah, I mean, that's pretty much all I got on this.
But yeah, I look forward to moreof these episodes on these top
thinker types. And, yeah, Awesome.

(01:11:32):
So just for reminder, this Wednesday at 2:30 Eastern, we
are joined by Bobby is Aryan, who is the author of the romance
of reality. Check out his book if you like
physics and the origins. And you know, the universe and

(01:11:53):
stuff like that, definitely a great book.
And yeah, bunch of stuff up. And we're going to try and get
one in. I'm trying to work with Laura,
from megaliths Hunter to get a date solidified, maybe this week
or next week to have her back on.
And we're gonna have a couple other people.
We're gonna have some people, I've met from, you know, Twitter

(01:12:15):
doing Twitter spaces as well. I'm coming up here and I've also
talked to our top escapee Sandy and she's going to come on as a
guest, one of these days as well.
Nice. And yeah.
So we got some cool stuff comingup.
Beautiful. But yeah, if anybody wants to
support our show, I'm not going to go through the Spiel, hit the

(01:12:35):
link tree linked down below and also I wanted to add this if you
watch our stuff on YouTube, I sonow we're going to offer, you
know, how we do our exclusive orfor our two-dollar tear on
patreon. We're going to we offer the
exclusive episodes and extensions and stuff.
I have the same thing going on YouTube now so you can Up to get

(01:12:58):
exclusive content through our YouTube.
If you don't want to do the patreon thing and you just want
to watch the videos or extensions of our episodes are
interviews are exclusive guests,you know, segments and stuff
like that. You can sign up for our
two-dollar thing on YouTube and I'll upload those the same way
I'll do on patreon when those come up.
So if you would rather just do that through YouTube, that's on

(01:13:19):
there now as well, it's just twodollars for the exclusive
content. And yeah, but yeah, if you want
to support the show, hit the link tree link.
We've got a merch store, like our stuff.
Follow us on. Subscribe to our YouTube
channel. Leave us a nice review on
Spotify or iTunes. Yeah check out Maurices Bando.

(01:13:41):
Go D OE G OE, Maurice and I havesome sort of dueling guitar
thing happening on social media on Instagram.
If you want to watch each of us,rip it up on guitar, a little
bit. Follow - Kate podcast or follow
do go. Yeah, I mean I gotta get on the
the mindscape thing if it's going to be a That's gonna be a

(01:14:03):
battle. We're going to have a bet.
We're gonna have a shred off. All right.
I think you saw what you're up against with that latest funky
bitch bitch clip. Yeah.
I mean I'd I play fucking. I just write songs, bro.
I don't want him to be any kind of, dude, I heard your you said
you the best virtual so that's a.

(01:14:23):
Yeah, I'm sure. No.
You're dude. You I've seen you do some, some
shredding lately, some shred before bed.
So it's before bed. All right.
What do you what do you do? What do you play in?
The background? Is that are you just playing
like fish Clips or like jams in the background then jamming over
it? That?
Well there's a there's a YouTubechannel called now you shred.

(01:14:44):
They have all kinds of drills are like mac versions.
Like one will be like, you know,jam and mixolydian fish style
and then there's like, you know,there's fish there's Blues,
check out that site, it's prettysoon.
I'll check that out. I mean, I would like to get a
dub dub delay, pedal and then itkind of make my own thing like
you did. That would be cool but that was

(01:15:05):
a drums and shit I just recordedthat on logic and just played it
at the same time, but yeah, I'm actually problem I was looking
at delay or not too late. I was looking at Loop pedals,
because I used to have like two different Loop pedals and I got
rid of them but I was looking atthe ditto.
Yeah, probably get something. I mean, I'm about to lose that
my amp. I gotta buy my own at my

(01:15:26):
buddy's. Been up my ass to get his amp
act. Why don't you get this one that
I have is things? Perfect.
I mean, how big do you need it? Because can you make it up for
your gigs? What gigs I thought you guys I
know, but this this black star 1W, they make a 5 watt 12 if you
need a little bit more juice. But this I mean you heard this
thing, it's pretty crisp. Yeah.

(01:15:48):
Absolutely. I might just get this Blues
Junior though. I like it.
That's good too. Yeah, the thing I don't like
about the blues Junior though. Like the this black star has a
clean Channel where you can go fully clean the blues Junior.
You have to crew, second you start cranking the gain up for
the volume because you need it for the volume, it starts.
Starts to distort. So you can't really get like a
higher clean volume isn't as pretty.

(01:16:09):
This has a lot of Headroom, there's a valid.
There's a normal volume, and then there's a gain channel.
It's the blues, Junior? It's like that.
No, yeah, maybe. But it's the third edition.
I don't know. It's pretty sweet.
They were new. I used to have a blues, Junior,
though. Where you had to turn up for the
volume, you had to turn up the gain.
And when you turn up the gain, it would start to break the two

(01:16:29):
brothers are too bright. No, there's definitely head room
on this thing. There's two channels.
I mean, I'd whatever I jam on its at to yeah.
And the game isn't I have like the boost on and then I just
have the tube screamer so I don't know, it's good, it's
fair, it's loud as hell and at that too but I'm just jamming in
my living room. What do you use?

(01:16:50):
What tube screamer used in ts7? Yeah yeah I have this ts808.
Thus rv1 the Vintage reissue that thing rips.
They make a hand-wired what theymake a point-to-point hand-wired
one that's Nominal to it's like a couple hundred bucks.
Yeah, I was looking at the hand-wired.

(01:17:11):
What is it? I can't remember the names of
the the amps but to like twice the price.
Oh, Marshall know. It was a funder is like the,
it's not that the law. Oh yeah, yeah, they started
doing that towards the end of when I started working at Guitar
Center, offering all these handle wire wired point-to-point

(01:17:31):
contact amps. I mean, I mean, it might sound
good. I don't love good.
I wouldn't even notice the difference.
So the the hand-wired Marshall ones and I don't like Marshall
amps, but the And wired Marshallones.
The combo sound really good actually.
But yeah, good stuff. But yeah, if you want to see us
Jam, check out our designated. Our designated Instagram

(01:17:59):
channels and also Tick-Tock I started uploading stuff under
Tick-Tock Maurices. Got Tick-Tock for do go.
Yeah and you've been doing that that songwriters in the round
thing right? Yeah you just I just did it once
but maybe we'll do it again nextyear.
Yeah. You that Tony guys got a really

(01:18:20):
good voice. Yeah he did really good.
I got out of there. Just the first time I ever
played just by myself. I was a little nervous, but it's
cool to just break it down and just do everything acoustically.
It's like a different different sound to the whole tune, which
is, you know, it's nice to get it down to the Bare Bones and
stuff. It was fun.
Yeah, sounds good. Yeah.
You're all your stuff? Sounds good.

(01:18:41):
And check out Maurices band's. Newest stuff, go check.
I have the link down below. Sweet.
Yeah and this guy's winning Awards and stuff.
Now, first music video, so checkthat out.
Yes, sir is there deletions on that?
Local ones. Here.
Yeah and we got our documentary in the works.
We're finally getting to the full edit mode here and it looks

(01:19:02):
like I think this is all this Mission will be coming down to
the wire for 2020. We got a lot of people involved
which I like I like that. A lot of people are involved
because I like the different perspectives and I like all the
people so we did the trailer wasthat a couple months ago we put
out the trailer and since then we've added like six more

(01:19:24):
people. So Look for an updated trailer
when Maurice gets done with thatand we'll put that back out as
well as an updated title becauseof the whole saucer Co you AP
Fiasco. If we wanted to create a shirt
based on our own documentary named, I don't want it to be
potentially taken down because of some sort of copyright BS,

(01:19:45):
so, look for that. But again, thank you to
everybody. We love everybody and stay safe
out there. We'll catch you next time.
Peace. Peace.