May 31, 2024 • 35 mins
Watch this Full Episode -- https://youtu.be/TcWkNGVzVvU
--
Ever wondered what drives someone to plant a church despite witnessing firsthand the sacrifices and uncertainties it entails? Join us for a compelling conversation with Trey Van Kamp, a fourth-generation pastor who launched his church at just 24 years old. He shares his personal journey, heavily influenced by his father's bold decision to sell everything and plant a church during Trey's childhood, and how those formative experiences prepared him for the path he would eventually embrace.
--
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey guys, Frank here with another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
I'm back with Trey Van Kamp outin Arizona.
This is Trey's second time onthe show.
We were trying to figure outwhen the first time was but
years back.
You were on and we talked a lotabout YouTube, but you're also
a church planner, so we're goingto talk church planning today.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Thank you for having me on.
Honestly, I'm more passionateabout the conversation around
church planning, so I'm all inExcited man.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It's going to be fun.
It's going to be fun, let meknow.
It seems like the internetdemons are going crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I just noticed a lag.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hopefully we're all right A little bit, but let me
know if it's lagging on my side.
I think it's recording us bothbut a little bit.
But let me know if it's laggingon my side.
I think it's recording us both,but all good, we're going to
get through this.
Tell us a little bit about yourstory when it comes to church
planting.
When did you plant the churchand how did you get into
ministry at that level?
When did God put it on yourheart to go become a church
planter?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, so I'm a fourth generation Southern Baptist
pastor.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I grew up normal.
My dad didn't become a pastortill I was 12.
So I like to say I had like anormal childhood and then
everything got flipped upsidedown.
But when I was 12, he broughtus into the house and he was
like a successful businessman.
We were pretty not like wealthy, but we were well off.
And he's like hey, life's aboutto totally change.
We're selling everything, we'rekind of moving, we're going to
plant a church.
I'm like what does plant achurch mean?
(01:27):
What's this have to do withgardening?
And so, yeah, we started likefour weeks later.
It's hilarious my dad'sstrategy was within a month he
found a school, put up a sign,free pancakes on Easter Sunday
and we started with like 40people.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's just hilarious now, because there's so much
strategy that's put into place.
Free pancakes you should bringthat one back.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I know, I know, yeah, so yeah, that really began my
journey of just understandingchurch life, where my calling is
in it, and I really began topray every morning, every night
God, what is your call in mylife and about?
When I was 13, I surrendered mylife to ministries.
There's like a Discipleship Nowconference.
So that's when I so since I was13, I've kind of known that's
(02:13):
my trajectory.
But then through high school,started to preach some and all
that went to California BaptistUniversity for college and I
remember telling my friendsspecifically I want to do
ministry, just not churchplanning.
I'll do anything.
I was literally willing to moveto Malaysia and be a missionary
rather than plant a church, andpart of that is just because
(02:34):
some of the baggage of seeing mydad.
There's just a lot of pain thatcomes with church planning.
There's a lot of instability.
It just seems like it's easierfor people to just come and go
because there's no again.
There's no place In my mind.
You're a church plant until youhave a building.
So we actually my father'schurch was portable for 14 years
(02:58):
, and so I remember my senioryear in high school.
I had to sell my truck that Iearned money.
I bought the truck when I was16, but we had to sell it that
summer in order to pay all thebills because the recession hit
during that time and it was sotough and I was like you know
what?
I blamed it on a church plant.
If we were in part of a biggerchurch, my dad's salary would be
taken care of.
I wouldn't have to get rid ofmy truck.
(03:19):
So I just remember thinkingLord, I love you, I want to do
ministry, I just don't want toplant a church.
And also my dad like.
More and more I live life, themore I recognize how much I'm
like him.
But in my mind, I'm sodifferent than him.
So he's the architect, likehe's a church planner,
entrepreneur, hustler.
I'm like I like to read, likeall these books back here, like
I like to write and think.
(03:40):
So I'm like I must not be achurchliner.
So I tried to do missions.
Those doors closed.
I did a revitalization while Iwas in college as a youth pastor
, and I realized that's not myspeed either.
And so, long story short, yeah,in 2016, I had been married to
my wife for three years.
At that point, I was 24 yearsold and we launched a church in
(04:01):
a movie theater and we actuallylaunched the church in my
hometown where I grew up and sohere in Queen Creek, arizona, in
the Southeast Valley of Phoenix.
So I'm really grateful that Ieventually planted a church.
Yeah, because I did know a lotfrom seeing my dad go through
stuff, so I wasn't surprisedwhen heartache would come.
I wasn't shocked when thefacility guy says, hey, you're
(04:24):
not allowed in this buildinganymore.
You got to go find it, you gotto rent something else because
you're not allowed in here.
I kind of knew that was a partof it when our trailer got
stolen like, yeah, my dad'strailer got stolen a decade ago
too.
This is a part of the process,so some of that helped a lot.
Finally, once I was able toreally accept that call but I
know I was only 24, to reallyaccept that call, but I know I
was only 24, but it was like along in my mind.
(04:46):
It was like a six to eight yearbattle, like Lord, anything but
plant a church, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And did you?
So you're 13,.
You kind of know, okay, I wantto go into ministry, or that's
kind of how you're feeling.
You're feeling called to that.
Did you go to college, work anormal job and then one day go,
(05:13):
all right, I'm going to go planta church, or were you doing
ministry jobs the whole?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
time.
What was the path through highschool?
Yeah, so I was really luckybecause my dad really began to
peek behind the curtain for me.
I was able to see a lot of theministry workings and he would.
It felt like he was consultingme.
He was obviously not, but hewas hey, what would you do in
this situation?
So in high school especially,he would kind of just show the
dynamics of church leadershipand help me.
(05:37):
But 13, again, I gave my life tothe ministry and then, 16, I
got licensed to preach.
So I began preaching like oncea month in different areas.
I started a ministry in highschool.
So I had some of thatexperience.
But also my dad's like hey,like I poured concrete every
single summer.
He's like you're going to learnwhat hard work is.
And so I did that every singlesummer.
Still do it now as a side job.
(05:58):
And then I actually umpired fortwo years.
My dad was like hey, if you'regoing to be a minister, you for
two years.
My dad was like hey, if you'regoing to be a minister, you're
going to deal with hot-headedpeople with terrible tempers and
you're going to learn at anearly age of 15 how to deal with
that.
So from 15 to 16, my first jobwas to be an umpire.
I hated baseball and Iespecially hated baseball after
that.
But it was like so many goodlife skills from learning that.
(06:20):
So I'm really grateful I hadsome experience outside of
ministry.
But yeah, once I went tocollege I immediately became a
youth pastor and did a lot ofthat.
So I really did do a lot offast tracks.
When I graduated from collegeat 21, I immediately became an
associate pastor for my dad'schurch and that was the process
of prepping me getting my teamtogether to launch three years
(06:40):
later.
So that's kind of like thequick timeline.
Okay, yeah, yeah, very cool manwhen you got married, did your
wife know you were going to be achurch planter?
Yeah, so we started dating whenwe were 16.
So she knew I always was goingto be a pastor of some sort.
And yeah, she was just here forthe ride.
Man, she's been amazing.
We really wrestled with that.
So we were part of the NorthAmerican Mission Board.
So they have know test wherethey take the wives like aside
(07:05):
and ask is this your call inlife?
And we always got scaredbecause she's like I didn't have
like this divine moment like myhusband did, but she's like I
just know I am called to gowherever he goes and I'm going
to be his support.
So, and she's done wonderfullyand honestly.
So, like when we started ourchurch, there's about eight
other guys that you know, kindof we kind of started around the
same time around this area andthere's only two of us left and
(07:28):
so it has been grueling andthere's been really hard days.
Anybody who's a church plannerknows.
But yeah, my wife has just beenthere for the long haul.
She's done incredible.
We were both really nervous Arewe ready for this?
And I think that's what youshould be.
You should have that humility.
I probably can't do thisbecause the people in that you
know that crew who were like soconfident they're not here
(07:48):
anymore.
You know, like there issomething about having that
weakness and humility of going.
I honestly, if the Lord doesn'tdo what only he can do, that I
know this won't work.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Right, yeah, no, I totally, totally makes sense.
So you planted where you grewup or near where you grew up.
Yeah, why'd you decide thereversus going somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know, because a prophet's not accepted in his
own hometown.
So I thought hey, let's makelife really good.
No, honestly, yeah.
So I was in California forcollege and I had a lot of
opportunities there, but I justfelt a draw to come back home.
Vance Pittman he's a mentor ofmine.
He often says, like God doesn'tcall you to a church as much as
he calls you to a city, and soI just really felt, um, a burden
(08:29):
for my city.
So it's a lot of LDS Mormonslive here and they're incredible
people, fun to be around, um,but obviously poor theology and
so uh, so I really care aboutthem.
A lot of my story is leading LDSto Christ, and then also
there's just a lot of nuns, justa lot of people that aren't
interested in religion at all.
And so, yeah, I just thought,man, these are the people I love
(08:51):
, and I also think there'ssomething about planting in a
place where, even if the churchdoesn't fail I'm sorry, even if
the church fails you're going tostay there, because I really
think so much.
So I'm, I think so much of myministry success.
You know, fruit that we'restarting to see now is because I
was just like, where else willI go?
(09:12):
I'm just going to stick it out,like I'm going to go as long as
I can.
I really just seen the Bible somuch about endurance and
pushing through those beginningseasons, and so, yeah, I can
really feel bad for a lot of myfriends who planted around the
same time.
You know their families inKentucky or Arkansas or Florida
and it gets really lonely, andso I love the fact that I'm born
(09:33):
in the West, so this is like areally unreached area.
It's like why I'm just going toplant where I'm at because, um,
both grandparents are here, sowe have babysitters for the kids
, so there's just a lot of goodstuff with that.
There's also a lot of baggage,though.
You know some people rememberme as a teenager, so they're not
coming to my church, you know.
So, like there's some groups ofpeople it's like I get it.
(09:53):
You remember me in diapers, soyou know you do you go to that
other place.
So there's been somedisadvantages, but there's just
been a ton of advantages as well.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
So you're eight years in whatare some of the biggest you know
.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I don't know surprises or shockers along the
way.
I was surprised how quickly wedid not grow, if that phrase
makes sense.
I was kind of, you know like,experienced a lot of ministry
success up to that point.
So I just thought for sure we'dat least hit 200 quickly.
And we didn't, and it was justlike that was super humbling.
I also am surprised.
(10:35):
I thought I can do it alone.
So when we launched I had noother associate pastor or no
other team with me and so thatwas just honestly moronic.
That first year was just toughbecause it was just me and my
wife and so we learned a lot.
So if I were to do it overagain, I would have had the
launch phase, like the prepphase, be a whole lot longer.
But at the same time I thinkI'm not.
(10:56):
I'm who I am today because ofthose mishaps and that pain that
we went through.
So I almost you know I wouldn'ttrade it for the world but also
I'm like man, like how dumbwere we?
You know, like we started withlike $5,000 in our account and
we were like in the churchaccount and like, hey, let's,
let's start a church, and so Iknow so many you know just
totally do it the opposite wayand I think it's.
(11:17):
It's better.
Like, my dad's church isn't toofar away from mine as well, so
when we launched he sent 10people with us.
Nowadays people send like 400,you know and um, but my dad's
church was only 220 people atthat time and once we launched
they got land and a building andso a year later they jumped to
(11:38):
like 1,000.
But when we started, when theylaunched us, they only had 200.
So it's not like I can take manywith me anyways.
So, yeah, we just started inall the wrong ways, but I think
my character is better as aresult.
So therefore, I'm reallygrateful for all of it.
Yeah yeah, there's a lot ofwhat not to do, for sure, but
we're still here.
So that's what I'm really proudof.
(11:59):
Just that we've had theperseverance, the tenacity.
We never stopped learning.
We're constantly realizing hey,that was a mistake, let's just
not make it again.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
So, yeah, realizing hey, that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Let's just not make it again, and so, yeah, god's
been gracious to us as a result.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, I love that.
What about things that havegone well along the way?
What are some things that youcan remember?
It doesn't all have to be atthe beginning, but just along
the eight years.
What are some things thatyou're like, oh, whether you got
it right because you planned ongetting it right or you thought
of it, or it just kind ofhappened you know what I'm
saying and God showed up.
But, like what are some of thethings that you feel like really
(12:32):
worked for you guys?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah.
So something I'm really pumpedabout right now, we have this.
We have like this discipleshipplan for our church called
Formed by Jesus.
So formedbyjesuscom is like thewebsite where we hold it, and
so we're really doing a lot ofpractice-based discipleship.
So for the popular level, it'slike John Mark Comer's doing a
lot of that right now.
I've kind of connected with himand some of those guys back in
(12:56):
2017, 2018, and began toimplement it kind of in 2019.
But the last few years we'vegotten really organized.
So last year we did a focus onSabbath scripture, then
simplicity.
This year it's hospitality,peacemaking and generosity, and
so we're like in the middle ofthe peacemaking practice right
now and it's just been reallycool Like so, like for three
(13:17):
months we're saying, hey, we arefollowers, we're practitioners
of the way of Jesus, and likethere's a lot of stuff we could
do and we need to do.
But like right now in thisseason, let's focus on like
hospitality, like we'rehospitable people, so we
celebrate all the wins.
Did you host somebody this week?
Did you go to somebody's housein arizona?
We're like it's super hot outhere, so, if you've heard, and
(13:39):
so in the summer, like everyonejust closes their garage, nobody
hangs outside right.
So it makes it really hardbecause in the winter we always
feel awkward because it's like,well, I didn't see you all
summer.
I summer, I forgot your name.
So let's just so like there's alot of weird things about
Arizona because nobody's fromhere too.
A lot of people don't know eachother.
It's very isolated.
So we've really found a lot ofsuccess of like guys saying the
(14:01):
big win is just like getting toknow your neighbor's names, like
let's start there.
And they're like, wow, this isso great.
So it's been really cool toreally just focus on those
really tangible things, toreally help our people really
take their next step andfollowing the way.
So we've just seen a lot offruit from that.
Honestly, I feel like ourchurch has grown since then,
like our vision is really clear,like we've really been able to
(14:22):
determine this is what I'mgrateful for I now know who
we're not.
You know, like when we firstplanted our church, I was trying
to figure out who we were, butI didn't know all the way who we
weren't.
And now, kind of ministering toour people, understanding our
context more, like I'm verycomfortable mentioning to people
the things that we're not,which I think is like a really
(14:43):
good sign of clarity and movingin the right direction.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, how'd you figure those things out?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, by trying to be those things and realizing
we're bad at it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right.
You know what I'm saying Giveme a few, give me your top three
.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, I think one thing is like realizing maybe I
don't even know if we're tryingto ever become a big church Like
we don't really.
Like you know, I think like alot of even smaller churches use
megachurch models and systemsand it's like that's not us,
like I don't even know if Iwould like that.
So some of that like hey, somesystems, we need to have systems
, for sure, and we're gettingbetter at those, right, but
(15:16):
there's other things we're likeno, we're gonna make that part
always personal, you know whatI'm saying.
Like we're gonna make it whereI'm always the one reaching out,
so, so that's one thing.
Like, hey, you're gonna beknown at this community.
Like, after your first sunday, Iwill know your name, right,
when you come in, I'm gonna sayhey, john, you know um, so
that's one thing.
Another is that we'repractice-based community, so
(15:36):
we're not ashamed of that.
So like, in other words, we'renot here just to give some
pick-me-up, um, on the weekend,uh, just to come in.
Like, no, we like we practicethis thing together and so we
hold each other accountable.
Uh, we give each other a lot ofgrace, but there's a lot of
effort that we put in.
Yeah.
Even just kind of our music,just the way our music is.
And by God's grace, when westarted our church there was
(15:59):
only two churches in our wholecity.
There's a lot now because it'sa growing city and there's a lot
of mega churches and it'swonderful.
So it's like, hey, if you wantthat kind of music, you want
that kind of music, you wantthat kind of style, like go to
it.
That's just not who we're, that, we're not that and we're okay
with that and we root for thoseguys.
And I just like that idea thatthe kingdom is an ecosystem and
we are just a type of church.
We need a church this wholecity.
(16:21):
Our church can't save the wholecity, so we're very comfortable
Shout out to those churches whodo those things this is our
church, we do these things, andso that's just been like helpful
and encouraging for our people.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, I imagine you know, being the lead pastor.
It kind of alleviates pressuretoo.
What do you mean?
Like you know, if you feel thispressure, oh, it alleviates
pressure on me when I realizelike, oh, absolutely
Self-imposed pressure, notpressure that anybody's putting
on you per se, but, like youknow, like feeling like you need
to be like somebody else orlike some other church or
(16:57):
anything like that, if you canget comfortable where you feel
like this is what God called usto do, this is who I am and this
is how church looks, and like Ifeel great about that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah, amen.
So like a big, so I wrote abook right there, non-anxious
Pastor.
And like, yeah, yeah, amen.
So I wrote a book right there,non-anxious Pastor, and that's a
thesis of mine.
I really think we're in ananxious culture, constantly
comparing and worrying, and Ithink the more pastors can just
be content with who we are andwho we're not, and non-anxious
and just enjoying the moment andbeing relaxed and present on a
(17:28):
Sunday, that really does make animpact for your congregation.
So, yeah, if anything, probablythe who were not thing was most
helpful, just for me.
So I, you know, when I sawother churches doing well, I'm
rooting for them, I'm not like,oh no, that should have been us,
um, and when they're like, hey,how come your church isn't that
?
It's like that's just not whatwe're called to and that's you
know.
So, yeah, that's so true, it'srelieved a lot of pressure on me
(17:49):
for sure.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What we were talking before and you said, uh, just in
the last little bit, you feellike you guys are growing, maybe
, maybe more than in the past ormore than any other time, and
you're, you're working on somethings.
So what, what's what's changedor what do you see different in
the last year or so?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, yeah, so we've grown like, uh, for the in the
like.
So we launched into our newbuilding, uh, 15 months ago and
we've grown by 100 since then.
So, aka, we've doubled in size,right.
So that's cool.
So we've gone from one serviceto two service, two services,
which is cool.
I think it's a couple things.
I think our teaching is very,um, intentional.
We have a vision with ourteaching.
(18:28):
So, like in my mind and I don'tknow if this makes sense but
our vision isn't so much here'sthe type of building we're
building.
Our vision is here's the typeof people we're creating and so,
like, when we give our peoplethis three year trajectory with
these nine practices, I thinkit's really giving people oh
okay, here's the on-ramp andhere's how I join and here's
(18:49):
what we're doing next.
So I think it gives people.
I think that's another way ofbeing a visionary, right, and so
I think the vision has beenvery clear.
It's not just random series.
Everything builds on top ofeach other.
So that's been reallyencouraging and really fun.
So, like all of this year 2024,we packaged the whole year as
the whole vision was how to makefriends and love other people
(19:11):
Within.
That is the practice ofhospitality, peacemaking and
generosity, and then, when we'renot doing those practice series
, we're going through the bookof Acts, and so I just I think
that clarity has been helpful.
Also, though, have you heard ofMike Santiago, the Breaking 200
course that he does?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I have heard of it.
I don't know a lot about itthough yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So he's, you know, different stream than I think
he's.
Simply, he's a god.
We're, you know, north americanmission board, uh, sin network,
southern baptist, but um, wejust, we just picked up some of
his playbook.
Uh, super grateful for him.
So every first sunday of themonth we do party with the
pastors, and every second sundayof the month we do a growth
track, and doing that has,literally that has been the game
(19:53):
changer, um, so the party withthe pastors is after each
service, so we just transitionto two services and easter, so
it's 20 minutes.
So with the promise, hey, ifyou're new, your first step
should come to the party withthe pastor.
It's only 20 minutes long andwe give you refreshments.
It used to be pizza, but now wehave an early service, so now
it's like bagels, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So Pancakes, bro, pancakes.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Pancakes I forget.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
My man.
What is going on so funny?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, so, but for 20 minutes.
That first Sunday is just likethe vision of, like our core
values.
This is what we do, this is whowe are, and so, yeah, so that's
like we're always pushing that,and so I think it gives people
a good opportunity to meet us,to talk to us, but also for us
to describe again who we are andwho we're not.
And then the second Sunday ofevery month is growth track,
(20:40):
which is essentially here's whatour groups are and how you can
join one and here's all thedifferent ways you can serve and
you can start today.
You know so, and so that's beenreally good.
Like we have I'm justembarrassed now the first few
years of our church plan.
It was so organic, like, hey,if you want to serve, just come
talk to me, or just come talk,go talk to our kids director,
and just people win it Right,cool, I'll just never do that.
(21:04):
And so, yeah, improving thosesystems have just been night and
day.
It's just been really helpfulretaining people.
So it used to be.
It took about six to ninemonths to get people plugged in.
Now it's like two to fourmonths.
They're serving one sitting,one and doing all of those
things.
So really cranking that upkeeps them in and I think we've
(21:27):
made a shift in ourunderstanding.
I saw this on Instagram theother day.
I thought it was really good.
I think we've made a shift inour understanding.
I saw this on Instagram theother day.
I thought it was really good.
I think it's a really famouspastor, but I don't remember his
name.
But he said in the 90s contentwas king right, because it was
hard to come across a goodpreacher.
Content was what it's all about.
But nowadays it's aboutcommunity.
People don't have that.
In the 90s they had community.
Today they don't.
(21:48):
In the 90s they didn't havecontent.
Today we have more than enoughcontent.
So we've really leaned intolike, oh, we're integrating you
into our family and look, sundaysermons, great, whatever, but
it's about doing this thingtogether.
And so we're trying to reallycreate more systems to get
people plugged in and connected.
From the crowd to the community, to the core is kind of the
language that we use.
(22:08):
So, yeah, that has just been.
It's not like my preachingschanged.
It's not like you know, thelogo got better.
We still do the same ad, butlike that has helped us
tremendously.
I'm like making those visitorsstick.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Why do you think that is Like, why did doing those
couple of?
Because you mentioned reallytwo things, two classes, right?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, because I don't know, I feel like it's helped
people Again, we help make thedecision for them.
It's just kind of okay.
Here's another thing.
Here's a tip.
This is for people, right, whoare like planning churches maybe
right so another tip we juststarted adopting.
So here's the third trick thatwe trick.
Whatever you want to call it.
(22:49):
I think it's better on ramps isthe quick answer.
I think it's hey, and if youmiss first Sunday it's great.
You know what?
We got it again the next month,the first Sunday thing, every
four or five weeks.
You could always get plugged in.
I think that's comforting topeople.
I think people take that up onthat offer.
But the latest one we came up,we again saw another church.
I think it was Vintage LA.
(23:10):
They do this thing called theStick Six Challenge.
Have you heard of the Stick Six?
No, bro, it's so great.
So we're telling people, hey,finding a church is hard.
So we do this like in thewelcome part.
Finding a church is difficult.
We get it Like there's just alot of pressure and you just
don't know if you got it right.
But we get it Like there's justa lot of pressure and you just
don't know if you got it right.
Here's our offer to you, ourchallenge for six weeks come to
(23:31):
our church for the next sixweeks.
Here's what you're going toexperience within the next six
weeks.
Every first Sunday is part ofthe pastor.
Every second Sunday is growthtrack.
Every third Sunday is communion, you know.
So we just kind of like lay outsome of the things Right and
like look, this is a harddecision.
You'll never be able to makethat decision based off one
Sunday.
You know.
Maybe you know I had a bad dayor you had a bad day or whatever
(23:51):
, but after six weeks we reallythink you'd be able to make that
decision and if we're not theright place, please let us help
you find another one.
There's plenty of gospelcentered churches here.
We love them, we're for them.
Let us help you Right.
And so that's been helpful forpeople because they're like,
honestly, like yeah, one of theweeks, the first Sunday, I
thought, nah, maybe.
But we came two more Sundaysand we're like this is it Right?
(24:13):
But he's like we would havenever known that if we just gave
you that one shot.
So they really appreciated thatchallenge.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that because it's kind of just asking people
to do something, and it's notlike they're raising their hand
or filling out a card orwhatever, but you're just,
you're literally just asking,putting it on their mind, and
then you know if a family comes,the spouses, you know, have a
chat or whatever.
But yeah, just asking, I feellike kind of makes a big impact,
like, hey, give us a shot ifyou're new, give us a shot for
(24:41):
six weeks.
And then they like think aboutthat versus going whatever,
whether it's good or bad likethey, they go and then they like
think about that versus goingwhatever, whether it's good or
bad like they go, and then theykind of don't, there's nothing
pulling them back, right.
Yeah, like yeah, maybe there is.
But you know, the ask is like away to make sure everybody
feels like pulled back just fromdoing that and you said, oh, we
(25:02):
got the plan laid out so theyknow what's coming next week,
maybe growth track is coming andthey want to go jump in like
they can Exactly.
So, I think that's super cool.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, and part of our vision statement is we don't
make attenders, we makedisciples.
So we're always saying kind oflike, hey, to make attenders
cool, we can make this greatservice and you'd be blown away,
but that's not really our win.
So come for a while, you'll seehow we're actually like
practicing this thing.
So another thing that's beenhelpful is for our hospitality
series, trying to think if I canshow you a photo on my phone
(25:37):
and onto the camera.
But we came up with this likeping pong ball display and so we
put it together where we wouldhave 734 ping pong balls.
We'll fill this up perfectlybased off of Luke 734, which the
son of man came eating anddrinking.
So this whole thing about howhe's come to be hospitable with
us and so we're supposed to behospitable to others.
So let's see if you can seethis.
(25:58):
But it's really been catchingon.
Oh, there it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
See, it says set the table.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, although it's backwards for you, but it says
set the table and yeah, so it's734 mil.
So these are all the ping pongballs.
So every Sunday they mark theirname on it and drop it in.
So it's just another way oflike saying hey, we're
participating together.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
They put their name on it, put the ball in for what.
What do they have to do inorder to no-transcript,
(26:59):
beginning when we were chattingbefore the episode.
But you guys are, you're in twoservices.
You move from one building backdowntown, so now you're in a
new building for the last yearor so, um, and are you?
Are you doing a sort of abuilding fund type of project
now?
Or like looking to get into abuilding or starting to think
(27:22):
about that, like tell?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
me about that totally um you know, yeah, if you want
to give.
It sounds like you sound reallypassionate about this?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I'm not seeing it up for you um, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So it's kind of so.
The quick story is that westarted in a movie theater
things went well, but there'snever a good spot for kids.
We made it work.
We started to find momentum.
Covet hit just like the rest ofeverybody.
Really, we lost 70 of ourpeople.
People, I mean it's crazy, yeah, because we couldn't find a
place to gather.
And then we finally found aplace, but it was another church
(27:56):
and it's on Sunday night, sothat just killed all momentum.
It was so hard.
I mean, those were gruelingyears.
There's two years of doing that.
And then we found the schoolback in the area.
So the theater is like downtownQueen Creek, which is like a
good, like good downtown, youknow, and so the school is like
right by it.
I mean, you can throw a rock tothe theater, you know well, if
you're Uncle Rico, but you knowit's close enough.
And so Napoleon Dynamitereference, that's old.
(28:17):
So my millennial is showing andso, so, yeah, we're back in that
area.
So the church that we weremeeting at was like way down
South, 15 minutes the otherdirection, so that was so it
almost felt like we wererelaunching.
So I had three goals.
I said, okay, first goal is tofill up the first service, like
pack it out.
So it took like eight to 10months to do that, so we're
packing it out.
Finally, then I was like, okay,now we need a couple months to
(28:40):
roll out to our team.
We're going to go to twoservices.
Which services?
Which is big, because we'venever been to two services.
So a lot of our people havebeen saved at our church.
So for me it's like I grew upin church.
We've done two services all thetime serve one, sit one.
All of that's natural to me, tothese people.
They're like what, what doesthat mean?
How do we go to two services?
So we had to really take ourteam leaders through it.
(29:01):
So then I said, okay, our nextgoal, which we're in the middle
of, is to completely fill bothservices.
And so right now we have one ofour services is already about
80% capacity, which is great theearly service of all services,
and then the later service isabout 50% to 60%.
So we need to really work onthat.
So the idea was we pack out bothof these services.
(29:23):
Our budget should reflect wecan get really aggressive about
getting land and building abuilding.
So I knew, with the size wewere at in the spot we're in, we
could not afford a buildingloan with just one service
filled with people.
So, yeah, so last Sundaysomebody came up to me, a random
guy, and he was like hey,what's your plan?
(29:46):
So I just told him that.
I just told him everything.
I told you.
So now we're in the middle ofthe two services, but now we're
starting to meet with a realtorbecause we're really believing
that these two services willfill up soon.
He's like cool, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So you have a building fund.
I'm like, yeah, I've neverreally on these other things
first.
So I didn't think anything ofit.
And then my finance guy calledme later yesterday afternoon and
(30:09):
was like hey, we just got a$42,000 check for a building
fund.
I was like, let's go.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Okay, praise the Lord .
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So I'm assuming it was that guy.
I don't know who it was, butlet's go.
So I'm super pumped, supergrateful.
So now we do have a buildingfund, you know, and uh so, yeah,
we're excited.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I feel like share that good news.
That's a solid nod to uh, youknow, you didn't even say
anything and didn't even saythat's the best kind of building
campaign.
Yeah, wait till you saysomething yeah, and isn't that
great.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'll be able to start with that momentum like, hey,
we already have this much in it,right um?
So yeah, we're excited aboutthat.
The queen creek is a very Idon't.
Queen creek is like one of thefastest growing cities in
america, which also means it'sgetting very expensive, right,
so that thought's a bitoverwhelming.
Per acre is nothing like itused to be.
So my dad bought property.
It was like 20 000 an acre.
(31:01):
Now it's I don't even want toknow.
I think it's near the near themillion dollars and it's like
definitely downtown.
It's like insane so you'll tryto go downtown somewhere, I
imagine, if you can yeah, lordwilling, we want to be as close
to that area as possible,because that's like, yeah,
because we're able to reachpeople from like different parts
(31:21):
of like gilbert and chandlertoo.
So, yeah, anyways, thanks forasking.
I'm excited about it, pumpedabout it and again, I didn't
even have to say nothing, sothat's my favorite kind of
campaign so far, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, before we wrap what?
What's a few things that youwould tell the new church
planner or somebody that'sthinking about church?
You've been on an eight yearjourney.
You've gone ups and downs, youstuck it out.
You know you're seeing somegreat things happen right now,
but what would you tell the newchurch planner?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, I would say I never understood the phrase, but
I totally get it now.
People overestimate what theycan do in a year, underestimate
what they can do in a decade.
I think when God there's a book, God, there's a book, the
(32:11):
Making of a Leader by Robert JClinton.
I would have them read that andrealize, especially if you're
younger like me, by God's gracehe doesn't use us, he loves us.
And so what I really love isnow, when I look at the story of
eight years, I hated it just ofnever having a huge success
story, just slowly growing andthen losing people and then
growing a bit more.
You know three steps ahead, twosteps back.
(32:32):
But when you read that book yourealize, oh, God wants to do
something powerful in me beforehe ever does something powerful
through me.
And so I think, realizing thatchurch planning is a long game,
God, God thinks in decades, wethink in days, and so being very
slow.
And I have seen people startwith a huge flash and a huge
(32:56):
crowd and it dwindle away almostjust as fast, Right.
So I think there's something.
I think there's something aboutbeing a lot wiser than we did
and starting with more peoplethan we did.
But I wouldn't be toodiscouraged, starting small and
being slow.
What is that in Zephaniah?
Do not despise small beginnings.
So stay faithful, give at leasta decade of your life to it and
(33:19):
enjoy it.
I'm just really grateful I atleast had the mind to know.
I think, because I'm a pastor'skid, I need to enjoy my kids.
My family is so much moreimportant than ministry.
I know that to the core of mybeing and I think being a
pastor's kid helped me learnthat lesson fast.
So it's like oh, at the end ofthe day, I would much rather
have a thriving, healthy, happymarriage and family than a
(33:40):
church.
So work on that, first andforemost in your own soul, and
just be grateful for all the thedifferent parts of the journey.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a long one.
Yeah, yeah, amen, man, I lovethat, I love that.
Persevere through it all, man,longevity is a big deal, right?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Longevity matters.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And I get.
It's like most things.
You don't, you don't see at thebeginning, like you were saying
, you know year one, you want todo big things, but it doesn't
happen.
But you stick at something for10 years and you have a far
better chance of success ifyou're thinking in 10-year
periods versus one year.
So I love that, trey.
It's been great man.
(34:19):
Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Thanks so much, frank , appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Where should people go to find your website and
where they can give to thebuilding fund?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
My guy.
Yeah, so you can learn about meat treyvancampcom, but our
church is just pcchurch and youcan do the next steps button on
the bottom to give to thebuilding fund if you would so
desire.
But I imagine these otherchurch planners probably won't
be doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
You never know, we'll try toget it out to everyone.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I didn't know that other guy was doing this either.
You know yesterday's check, soyou never know what's gonna
happen.
But yeah, pcchurch, I'm superpumped.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I landed that short url yeah, so so good yeah,
that's where you can find usawesome man.
Thanks trey.
Thanks for coming on the show,thanks guys for listening and we
will catch you next week onanother episode of modern church
leader.
See ya.
Hey guys, Frank here with another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
I'm back with Trey Van Kamp outin Arizona.
This is Trey's second time onthe show.
We were trying to figure outwhen the first time was but
years back.
You were on and we talked a lotabout YouTube, but you're also
a church planner, so we're goingto talk church planning today.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Thank you for having me on.
Honestly, I'm more passionateabout the conversation around
church planning, so I'm all inExcited man.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It's going to be fun.
It's going to be fun, let meknow.
It seems like the internetdemons are going crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I just noticed a lag.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hopefully we're all right A little bit, but let me
know if it's lagging on my side.
I think it's recording us bothbut a little bit.
But let me know if it's laggingon my side.
I think it's recording us both,but all good, we're going to
get through this.
Tell us a little bit about yourstory when it comes to church
planting.
When did you plant the churchand how did you get into
ministry at that level?
When did God put it on yourheart to go become a church
planter?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, so I'm a fourth generation Southern Baptist
pastor.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh nice.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I grew up normal.
My dad didn't become a pastortill I was 12.
So I like to say I had like anormal childhood and then
everything got flipped upsidedown.
But when I was 12, he broughtus into the house and he was
like a successful businessman.
We were pretty not like wealthy, but we were well off.
And he's like hey, life's aboutto totally change.
We're selling everything, we'rekind of moving, we're going to
plant a church.
I'm like what does plant achurch mean?
(01:27):
What's this have to do withgardening?
And so, yeah, we started likefour weeks later.
It's hilarious my dad'sstrategy was within a month he
found a school, put up a sign,free pancakes on Easter Sunday
and we started with like 40people.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's just hilarious now, because there's so much
strategy that's put into place.
Free pancakes you should bringthat one back.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I know, I know, yeah, so yeah, that really began my
journey of just understandingchurch life, where my calling is
in it, and I really began topray every morning, every night
God, what is your call in mylife and about?
When I was 13, I surrendered mylife to ministries.
There's like a Discipleship Nowconference.
So that's when I so since I was13, I've kind of known that's
(02:13):
my trajectory.
But then through high school,started to preach some and all
that went to California BaptistUniversity for college and I
remember telling my friendsspecifically I want to do
ministry, just not churchplanning.
I'll do anything.
I was literally willing to moveto Malaysia and be a missionary
rather than plant a church, andpart of that is just because
(02:34):
some of the baggage of seeing mydad.
There's just a lot of pain thatcomes with church planning.
There's a lot of instability.
It just seems like it's easierfor people to just come and go
because there's no again.
There's no place In my mind.
You're a church plant until youhave a building.
So we actually my father'schurch was portable for 14 years
(02:58):
, and so I remember my senioryear in high school.
I had to sell my truck that Iearned money.
I bought the truck when I was16, but we had to sell it that
summer in order to pay all thebills because the recession hit
during that time and it was sotough and I was like you know
what?
I blamed it on a church plant.
If we were in part of a biggerchurch, my dad's salary would be
taken care of.
I wouldn't have to get rid ofmy truck.
(03:19):
So I just remember thinkingLord, I love you, I want to do
ministry, I just don't want toplant a church.
And also my dad like.
More and more I live life, themore I recognize how much I'm
like him.
But in my mind, I'm sodifferent than him.
So he's the architect, likehe's a church planner,
entrepreneur, hustler.
I'm like I like to read, likeall these books back here, like
I like to write and think.
(03:40):
So I'm like I must not be achurchliner.
So I tried to do missions.
Those doors closed.
I did a revitalization while Iwas in college as a youth pastor
, and I realized that's not myspeed either.
And so, long story short, yeah,in 2016, I had been married to
my wife for three years.
At that point, I was 24 yearsold and we launched a church in
(04:01):
a movie theater and we actuallylaunched the church in my
hometown where I grew up and sohere in Queen Creek, arizona, in
the Southeast Valley of Phoenix.
So I'm really grateful that Ieventually planted a church.
Yeah, because I did know a lotfrom seeing my dad go through
stuff, so I wasn't surprisedwhen heartache would come.
I wasn't shocked when thefacility guy says, hey, you're
(04:24):
not allowed in this buildinganymore.
You got to go find it, you gotto rent something else because
you're not allowed in here.
I kind of knew that was a partof it when our trailer got
stolen like, yeah, my dad'strailer got stolen a decade ago
too.
This is a part of the process,so some of that helped a lot.
Finally, once I was able toreally accept that call but I
know I was only 24, to reallyaccept that call, but I know I
was only 24, but it was like along in my mind.
(04:46):
It was like a six to eight yearbattle, like Lord, anything but
plant a church, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And did you?
So you're 13,.
You kind of know, okay, I wantto go into ministry, or that's
kind of how you're feeling.
You're feeling called to that.
Did you go to college, work anormal job and then one day go,
(05:13):
all right, I'm going to go planta church, or were you doing
ministry jobs the whole?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
time.
What was the path through highschool?
Yeah, so I was really luckybecause my dad really began to
peek behind the curtain for me.
I was able to see a lot of theministry workings and he would.
It felt like he was consultingme.
He was obviously not, but hewas hey, what would you do in
this situation?
So in high school especially,he would kind of just show the
dynamics of church leadershipand help me.
(05:37):
But 13, again, I gave my life tothe ministry and then, 16, I
got licensed to preach.
So I began preaching like oncea month in different areas.
I started a ministry in highschool.
So I had some of thatexperience.
But also my dad's like hey,like I poured concrete every
single summer.
He's like you're going to learnwhat hard work is.
And so I did that every singlesummer.
Still do it now as a side job.
(05:58):
And then I actually umpired fortwo years.
My dad was like hey, if you'regoing to be a minister, you for
two years.
My dad was like hey, if you'regoing to be a minister, you're
going to deal with hot-headedpeople with terrible tempers and
you're going to learn at anearly age of 15 how to deal with
that.
So from 15 to 16, my first jobwas to be an umpire.
I hated baseball and Iespecially hated baseball after
that.
But it was like so many goodlife skills from learning that.
(06:20):
So I'm really grateful I hadsome experience outside of
ministry.
But yeah, once I went tocollege I immediately became a
youth pastor and did a lot ofthat.
So I really did do a lot offast tracks.
When I graduated from collegeat 21, I immediately became an
associate pastor for my dad'schurch and that was the process
of prepping me getting my teamtogether to launch three years
(06:40):
later.
So that's kind of like thequick timeline.
Okay, yeah, yeah, very cool manwhen you got married, did your
wife know you were going to be achurch planter?
Yeah, so we started dating whenwe were 16.
So she knew I always was goingto be a pastor of some sort.
And yeah, she was just here forthe ride.
Man, she's been amazing.
We really wrestled with that.
So we were part of the NorthAmerican Mission Board.
So they have know test wherethey take the wives like aside
(07:05):
and ask is this your call inlife?
And we always got scaredbecause she's like I didn't have
like this divine moment like myhusband did, but she's like I
just know I am called to gowherever he goes and I'm going
to be his support.
So, and she's done wonderfullyand honestly.
So, like when we started ourchurch, there's about eight
other guys that you know, kindof we kind of started around the
same time around this area andthere's only two of us left and
(07:28):
so it has been grueling andthere's been really hard days.
Anybody who's a church plannerknows.
But yeah, my wife has just beenthere for the long haul.
She's done incredible.
We were both really nervous Arewe ready for this?
And I think that's what youshould be.
You should have that humility.
I probably can't do thisbecause the people in that you
know that crew who were like soconfident they're not here
(07:48):
anymore.
You know, like there issomething about having that
weakness and humility of going.
I honestly, if the Lord doesn'tdo what only he can do, that I
know this won't work.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Right, yeah, no, I totally, totally makes sense.
So you planted where you grewup or near where you grew up.
Yeah, why'd you decide thereversus going somewhere else?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know, because a prophet's not accepted in his
own hometown.
So I thought hey, let's makelife really good.
No, honestly, yeah.
So I was in California forcollege and I had a lot of
opportunities there, but I justfelt a draw to come back home.
Vance Pittman he's a mentor ofmine.
He often says, like God doesn'tcall you to a church as much as
he calls you to a city, and soI just really felt, um, a burden
(08:29):
for my city.
So it's a lot of LDS Mormonslive here and they're incredible
people, fun to be around, um,but obviously poor theology and
so uh, so I really care aboutthem.
A lot of my story is leading LDSto Christ, and then also
there's just a lot of nuns, justa lot of people that aren't
interested in religion at all.
And so, yeah, I just thought,man, these are the people I love
(08:51):
, and I also think there'ssomething about planting in a
place where, even if the churchdoesn't fail I'm sorry, even if
the church fails you're going tostay there, because I really
think so much.
So I'm, I think so much of myministry success.
You know, fruit that we'restarting to see now is because I
was just like, where else willI go?
(09:12):
I'm just going to stick it out,like I'm going to go as long as
I can.
I really just seen the Bible somuch about endurance and
pushing through those beginningseasons, and so, yeah, I can
really feel bad for a lot of myfriends who planted around the
same time.
You know their families inKentucky or Arkansas or Florida
and it gets really lonely, andso I love the fact that I'm born
(09:33):
in the West, so this is like areally unreached area.
It's like why I'm just going toplant where I'm at because, um,
both grandparents are here, sowe have babysitters for the kids
, so there's just a lot of goodstuff with that.
There's also a lot of baggage,though.
You know some people rememberme as a teenager, so they're not
coming to my church, you know.
So, like there's some groups ofpeople it's like I get it.
(09:53):
You remember me in diapers, soyou know you do you go to that
other place.
So there's been somedisadvantages, but there's just
been a ton of advantages as well.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
So you're eight years in whatare some of the biggest you know
.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I don't know surprises or shockers along the
way.
I was surprised how quickly wedid not grow, if that phrase
makes sense.
I was kind of, you know like,experienced a lot of ministry
success up to that point.
So I just thought for sure we'dat least hit 200 quickly.
And we didn't, and it was justlike that was super humbling.
I also am surprised.
(10:35):
I thought I can do it alone.
So when we launched I had noother associate pastor or no
other team with me and so thatwas just honestly moronic.
That first year was just toughbecause it was just me and my
wife and so we learned a lot.
So if I were to do it overagain, I would have had the
launch phase, like the prepphase, be a whole lot longer.
But at the same time I thinkI'm not.
(10:56):
I'm who I am today because ofthose mishaps and that pain that
we went through.
So I almost you know I wouldn'ttrade it for the world but also
I'm like man, like how dumbwere we?
You know, like we started withlike $5,000 in our account and
we were like in the churchaccount and like, hey, let's,
let's start a church, and so Iknow so many you know just
totally do it the opposite wayand I think it's.
(11:17):
It's better.
Like, my dad's church isn't toofar away from mine as well, so
when we launched he sent 10people with us.
Nowadays people send like 400,you know and um, but my dad's
church was only 220 people atthat time and once we launched
they got land and a building andso a year later they jumped to
(11:38):
like 1,000.
But when we started, when theylaunched us, they only had 200.
So it's not like I can take manywith me anyways.
So, yeah, we just started inall the wrong ways, but I think
my character is better as aresult.
So therefore, I'm reallygrateful for all of it.
Yeah yeah, there's a lot ofwhat not to do, for sure, but
we're still here.
So that's what I'm really proudof.
(11:59):
Just that we've had theperseverance, the tenacity.
We never stopped learning.
We're constantly realizing hey,that was a mistake, let's just
not make it again.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
So, yeah, realizing hey, that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Let's just not make it again, and so, yeah, god's
been gracious to us as a result.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, I love that.
What about things that havegone well along the way?
What are some things that youcan remember?
It doesn't all have to be atthe beginning, but just along
the eight years.
What are some things thatyou're like, oh, whether you got
it right because you planned ongetting it right or you thought
of it, or it just kind ofhappened you know what I'm
saying and God showed up.
But, like what are some of thethings that you feel like really
(12:32):
worked for you guys?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah.
So something I'm really pumpedabout right now, we have this.
We have like this discipleshipplan for our church called
Formed by Jesus.
So formedbyjesuscom is like thewebsite where we hold it, and
so we're really doing a lot ofpractice-based discipleship.
So for the popular level, it'slike John Mark Comer's doing a
lot of that right now.
I've kind of connected with himand some of those guys back in
(12:56):
2017, 2018, and began toimplement it kind of in 2019.
But the last few years we'vegotten really organized.
So last year we did a focus onSabbath scripture, then
simplicity.
This year it's hospitality,peacemaking and generosity, and
so we're like in the middle ofthe peacemaking practice right
now and it's just been reallycool Like so, like for three
(13:17):
months we're saying, hey, we arefollowers, we're practitioners
of the way of Jesus, and likethere's a lot of stuff we could
do and we need to do.
But like right now in thisseason, let's focus on like
hospitality, like we'rehospitable people, so we
celebrate all the wins.
Did you host somebody this week?
Did you go to somebody's housein arizona?
We're like it's super hot outhere, so, if you've heard, and
(13:39):
so in the summer, like everyonejust closes their garage, nobody
hangs outside right.
So it makes it really hardbecause in the winter we always
feel awkward because it's like,well, I didn't see you all
summer.
I summer, I forgot your name.
So let's just so like there's alot of weird things about
Arizona because nobody's fromhere too.
A lot of people don't know eachother.
It's very isolated.
So we've really found a lot ofsuccess of like guys saying the
(14:01):
big win is just like getting toknow your neighbor's names, like
let's start there.
And they're like, wow, this isso great.
So it's been really cool toreally just focus on those
really tangible things, toreally help our people really
take their next step andfollowing the way.
So we've just seen a lot offruit from that.
Honestly, I feel like ourchurch has grown since then,
like our vision is really clear,like we've really been able to
(14:22):
determine this is what I'mgrateful for I now know who
we're not.
You know, like when we firstplanted our church, I was trying
to figure out who we were, butI didn't know all the way who we
weren't.
And now, kind of ministering toour people, understanding our
context more, like I'm verycomfortable mentioning to people
the things that we're not,which I think is like a really
(14:43):
good sign of clarity and movingin the right direction.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, how'd you figure those things out?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, by trying to be those things and realizing
we're bad at it.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right.
You know what I'm saying Giveme a few, give me your top three
.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, I think one thing is like realizing maybe I
don't even know if we're tryingto ever become a big church Like
we don't really.
Like you know, I think like alot of even smaller churches use
megachurch models and systemsand it's like that's not us,
like I don't even know if Iwould like that.
So some of that like hey, somesystems, we need to have systems
, for sure, and we're gettingbetter at those, right, but
(15:16):
there's other things we're likeno, we're gonna make that part
always personal, you know whatI'm saying.
Like we're gonna make it whereI'm always the one reaching out,
so, so that's one thing.
Like, hey, you're gonna beknown at this community.
Like, after your first sunday, Iwill know your name, right,
when you come in, I'm gonna sayhey, john, you know um, so
that's one thing.
Another is that we'repractice-based community, so
(15:36):
we're not ashamed of that.
So like, in other words, we'renot here just to give some
pick-me-up, um, on the weekend,uh, just to come in.
Like, no, we like we practicethis thing together and so we
hold each other accountable.
Uh, we give each other a lot ofgrace, but there's a lot of
effort that we put in.
Yeah.
Even just kind of our music,just the way our music is.
And by God's grace, when westarted our church there was
(15:59):
only two churches in our wholecity.
There's a lot now because it'sa growing city and there's a lot
of mega churches and it'swonderful.
So it's like, hey, if you wantthat kind of music, you want
that kind of music, you wantthat kind of style, like go to
it.
That's just not who we're, that, we're not that and we're okay
with that and we root for thoseguys.
And I just like that idea thatthe kingdom is an ecosystem and
we are just a type of church.
We need a church this wholecity.
(16:21):
Our church can't save the wholecity, so we're very comfortable
Shout out to those churches whodo those things this is our
church, we do these things, andso that's just been like helpful
and encouraging for our people.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, I imagine you know, being the lead pastor.
It kind of alleviates pressuretoo.
What do you mean?
Like you know, if you feel thispressure, oh, it alleviates
pressure on me when I realizelike, oh, absolutely
Self-imposed pressure, notpressure that anybody's putting
on you per se, but, like youknow, like feeling like you need
to be like somebody else orlike some other church or
(16:57):
anything like that, if you canget comfortable where you feel
like this is what God called usto do, this is who I am and this
is how church looks, and like Ifeel great about that.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah, amen.
So like a big, so I wrote abook right there, non-anxious
Pastor.
And like, yeah, yeah, amen.
So I wrote a book right there,non-anxious Pastor, and that's a
thesis of mine.
I really think we're in ananxious culture, constantly
comparing and worrying, and Ithink the more pastors can just
be content with who we are andwho we're not, and non-anxious
and just enjoying the moment andbeing relaxed and present on a
(17:28):
Sunday, that really does make animpact for your congregation.
So, yeah, if anything, probablythe who were not thing was most
helpful, just for me.
So I, you know, when I sawother churches doing well, I'm
rooting for them, I'm not like,oh no, that should have been us,
um, and when they're like, hey,how come your church isn't that
?
It's like that's just not whatwe're called to and that's you
know.
So, yeah, that's so true, it'srelieved a lot of pressure on me
(17:49):
for sure.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
What we were talking before and you said, uh, just in
the last little bit, you feellike you guys are growing, maybe
, maybe more than in the past ormore than any other time, and
you're, you're working on somethings.
So what, what's what's changedor what do you see different in
the last year or so?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, yeah, so we've grown like, uh, for the in the
like.
So we launched into our newbuilding, uh, 15 months ago and
we've grown by 100 since then.
So, aka, we've doubled in size,right.
So that's cool.
So we've gone from one serviceto two service, two services,
which is cool.
I think it's a couple things.
I think our teaching is very,um, intentional.
We have a vision with ourteaching.
(18:28):
So, like in my mind and I don'tknow if this makes sense but
our vision isn't so much here'sthe type of building we're
building.
Our vision is here's the typeof people we're creating and so,
like, when we give our peoplethis three year trajectory with
these nine practices, I thinkit's really giving people oh
okay, here's the on-ramp andhere's how I join and here's
(18:49):
what we're doing next.
So I think it gives people.
I think that's another way ofbeing a visionary, right, and so
I think the vision has beenvery clear.
It's not just random series.
Everything builds on top ofeach other.
So that's been reallyencouraging and really fun.
So, like all of this year 2024,we packaged the whole year as
the whole vision was how to makefriends and love other people
(19:11):
Within.
That is the practice ofhospitality, peacemaking and
generosity, and then, when we'renot doing those practice series
, we're going through the bookof Acts, and so I just I think
that clarity has been helpful.
Also, though, have you heard ofMike Santiago, the Breaking 200
course that he does?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I have heard of it.
I don't know a lot about itthough yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So he's, you know, different stream than I think
he's.
Simply, he's a god.
We're, you know, north americanmission board, uh, sin network,
southern baptist, but um, wejust, we just picked up some of
his playbook.
Uh, super grateful for him.
So every first sunday of themonth we do party with the
pastors, and every second sundayof the month we do a growth
track, and doing that has,literally that has been the game
(19:53):
changer, um, so the party withthe pastors is after each
service, so we just transitionto two services and easter, so
it's 20 minutes.
So with the promise, hey, ifyou're new, your first step
should come to the party withthe pastor.
It's only 20 minutes long andwe give you refreshments.
It used to be pizza, but now wehave an early service, so now
it's like bagels, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So Pancakes, bro, pancakes.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Pancakes I forget.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
My man.
What is going on so funny?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, so, but for 20 minutes.
That first Sunday is just likethe vision of, like our core
values.
This is what we do, this is whowe are, and so, yeah, so that's
like we're always pushing that,and so I think it gives people
a good opportunity to meet us,to talk to us, but also for us
to describe again who we are andwho we're not.
And then the second Sunday ofevery month is growth track,
(20:40):
which is essentially here's whatour groups are and how you can
join one and here's all thedifferent ways you can serve and
you can start today.
You know so, and so that's beenreally good.
Like we have I'm justembarrassed now the first few
years of our church plan.
It was so organic, like, hey,if you want to serve, just come
talk to me, or just come talk,go talk to our kids director,
and just people win it Right,cool, I'll just never do that.
(21:04):
And so, yeah, improving thosesystems have just been night and
day.
It's just been really helpfulretaining people.
So it used to be.
It took about six to ninemonths to get people plugged in.
Now it's like two to fourmonths.
They're serving one sitting,one and doing all of those
things.
So really cranking that upkeeps them in and I think we've
(21:27):
made a shift in ourunderstanding.
I saw this on Instagram theother day.
I thought it was really good.
I think we've made a shift inour understanding.
I saw this on Instagram theother day.
I thought it was really good.
I think it's a really famouspastor, but I don't remember his
name.
But he said in the 90s contentwas king right, because it was
hard to come across a goodpreacher.
Content was what it's all about.
But nowadays it's aboutcommunity.
People don't have that.
In the 90s they had community.
Today they don't.
(21:48):
In the 90s they didn't havecontent.
Today we have more than enoughcontent.
So we've really leaned intolike, oh, we're integrating you
into our family and look, sundaysermons, great, whatever, but
it's about doing this thingtogether.
And so we're trying to reallycreate more systems to get
people plugged in and connected.
From the crowd to the community, to the core is kind of the
language that we use.
(22:08):
So, yeah, that has just been.
It's not like my preachingschanged.
It's not like you know, thelogo got better.
We still do the same ad, butlike that has helped us
tremendously.
I'm like making those visitorsstick.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Why do you think that is Like, why did doing those
couple of?
Because you mentioned reallytwo things, two classes, right?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, because I don't know, I feel like it's helped
people Again, we help make thedecision for them.
It's just kind of okay.
Here's another thing.
Here's a tip.
This is for people, right, whoare like planning churches maybe
right so another tip we juststarted adopting.
So here's the third trick thatwe trick.
Whatever you want to call it.
(22:49):
I think it's better on ramps isthe quick answer.
I think it's hey, and if youmiss first Sunday it's great.
You know what?
We got it again the next month,the first Sunday thing, every
four or five weeks.
You could always get plugged in.
I think that's comforting topeople.
I think people take that up onthat offer.
But the latest one we came up,we again saw another church.
I think it was Vintage LA.
(23:10):
They do this thing called theStick Six Challenge.
Have you heard of the Stick Six?
No, bro, it's so great.
So we're telling people, hey,finding a church is hard.
So we do this like in thewelcome part.
Finding a church is difficult.
We get it Like there's just alot of pressure and you just
don't know if you got it right.
But we get it Like there's justa lot of pressure and you just
don't know if you got it right.
Here's our offer to you, ourchallenge for six weeks come to
(23:31):
our church for the next sixweeks.
Here's what you're going toexperience within the next six
weeks.
Every first Sunday is part ofthe pastor.
Every second Sunday is growthtrack.
Every third Sunday is communion, you know.
So we just kind of like lay outsome of the things Right and
like look, this is a harddecision.
You'll never be able to makethat decision based off one
Sunday.
You know.
Maybe you know I had a bad dayor you had a bad day or whatever
(23:51):
, but after six weeks we reallythink you'd be able to make that
decision and if we're not theright place, please let us help
you find another one.
There's plenty of gospelcentered churches here.
We love them, we're for them.
Let us help you Right.
And so that's been helpful forpeople because they're like,
honestly, like yeah, one of theweeks, the first Sunday, I
thought, nah, maybe.
But we came two more Sundaysand we're like this is it Right?
(24:13):
But he's like we would havenever known that if we just gave
you that one shot.
So they really appreciated thatchallenge.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I love that because it's kind of just asking people
to do something, and it's notlike they're raising their hand
or filling out a card orwhatever, but you're just,
you're literally just asking,putting it on their mind, and
then you know if a family comes,the spouses, you know, have a
chat or whatever.
But yeah, just asking, I feellike kind of makes a big impact,
like, hey, give us a shot ifyou're new, give us a shot for
(24:41):
six weeks.
And then they like think aboutthat versus going whatever,
whether it's good or bad likethey, they go and then they like
think about that versus goingwhatever, whether it's good or
bad like they go, and then theykind of don't, there's nothing
pulling them back, right.
Yeah, like yeah, maybe there is.
But you know, the ask is like away to make sure everybody
feels like pulled back just fromdoing that and you said, oh, we
(25:02):
got the plan laid out so theyknow what's coming next week,
maybe growth track is coming andthey want to go jump in like
they can Exactly.
So, I think that's super cool.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, and part of our vision statement is we don't
make attenders, we makedisciples.
So we're always saying kind oflike, hey, to make attenders
cool, we can make this greatservice and you'd be blown away,
but that's not really our win.
So come for a while, you'll seehow we're actually like
practicing this thing.
So another thing that's beenhelpful is for our hospitality
series, trying to think if I canshow you a photo on my phone
(25:37):
and onto the camera.
But we came up with this likeping pong ball display and so we
put it together where we wouldhave 734 ping pong balls.
We'll fill this up perfectlybased off of Luke 734, which the
son of man came eating anddrinking.
So this whole thing about howhe's come to be hospitable with
us and so we're supposed to behospitable to others.
So let's see if you can seethis.
(25:58):
But it's really been catchingon.
Oh, there it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
See, it says set the table.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, although it's backwards for you, but it says
set the table and yeah, so it's734 mil.
So these are all the ping pongballs.
So every Sunday they mark theirname on it and drop it in.
So it's just another way oflike saying hey, we're
participating together.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
They put their name on it, put the ball in for what.
What do they have to do inorder to no-transcript,
(26:59):
beginning when we were chattingbefore the episode.
But you guys are, you're in twoservices.
You move from one building backdowntown, so now you're in a
new building for the last yearor so, um, and are you?
Are you doing a sort of abuilding fund type of project
now?
Or like looking to get into abuilding or starting to think
(27:22):
about that, like tell?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
me about that totally um you know, yeah, if you want
to give.
It sounds like you sound reallypassionate about this?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I'm not seeing it up for you um, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So it's kind of so.
The quick story is that westarted in a movie theater
things went well, but there'snever a good spot for kids.
We made it work.
We started to find momentum.
Covet hit just like the rest ofeverybody.
Really, we lost 70 of ourpeople.
People, I mean it's crazy, yeah, because we couldn't find a
place to gather.
And then we finally found aplace, but it was another church
(27:56):
and it's on Sunday night, sothat just killed all momentum.
It was so hard.
I mean, those were gruelingyears.
There's two years of doing that.
And then we found the schoolback in the area.
So the theater is like downtownQueen Creek, which is like a
good, like good downtown, youknow, and so the school is like
right by it.
I mean, you can throw a rock tothe theater, you know well, if
you're Uncle Rico, but you knowit's close enough.
And so Napoleon Dynamitereference, that's old.
(28:17):
So my millennial is showing andso, so, yeah, we're back in that
area.
So the church that we weremeeting at was like way down
South, 15 minutes the otherdirection, so that was so it
almost felt like we wererelaunching.
So I had three goals.
I said, okay, first goal is tofill up the first service, like
pack it out.
So it took like eight to 10months to do that, so we're
packing it out.
Finally, then I was like, okay,now we need a couple months to
(28:40):
roll out to our team.
We're going to go to twoservices.
Which services?
Which is big, because we'venever been to two services.
So a lot of our people havebeen saved at our church.
So for me it's like I grew upin church.
We've done two services all thetime serve one, sit one.
All of that's natural to me, tothese people.
They're like what, what doesthat mean?
How do we go to two services?
So we had to really take ourteam leaders through it.
(29:01):
So then I said, okay, our nextgoal, which we're in the middle
of, is to completely fill bothservices.
And so right now we have one ofour services is already about
80% capacity, which is great theearly service of all services,
and then the later service isabout 50% to 60%.
So we need to really work onthat.
So the idea was we pack out bothof these services.
(29:23):
Our budget should reflect wecan get really aggressive about
getting land and building abuilding.
So I knew, with the size wewere at in the spot we're in, we
could not afford a buildingloan with just one service
filled with people.
So, yeah, so last Sundaysomebody came up to me, a random
guy, and he was like hey,what's your plan?
(29:46):
So I just told him that.
I just told him everything.
I told you.
So now we're in the middle ofthe two services, but now we're
starting to meet with a realtorbecause we're really believing
that these two services willfill up soon.
He's like cool, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So you have a building fund.
I'm like, yeah, I've neverreally on these other things
first.
So I didn't think anything ofit.
And then my finance guy calledme later yesterday afternoon and
(30:09):
was like hey, we just got a$42,000 check for a building
fund.
I was like, let's go.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Okay, praise the Lord .
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So I'm assuming it was that guy.
I don't know who it was, butlet's go.
So I'm super pumped, supergrateful.
So now we do have a buildingfund, you know, and uh so, yeah,
we're excited.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I feel like share that good news.
That's a solid nod to uh, youknow, you didn't even say
anything and didn't even saythat's the best kind of building
campaign.
Yeah, wait till you saysomething yeah, and isn't that
great.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'll be able to start with that momentum like, hey,
we already have this much in it,right um?
So yeah, we're excited aboutthat.
The queen creek is a very Idon't.
Queen creek is like one of thefastest growing cities in
america, which also means it'sgetting very expensive, right,
so that thought's a bitoverwhelming.
Per acre is nothing like itused to be.
So my dad bought property.
It was like 20 000 an acre.
(31:01):
Now it's I don't even want toknow.
I think it's near the near themillion dollars and it's like
definitely downtown.
It's like insane so you'll tryto go downtown somewhere, I
imagine, if you can yeah, lordwilling, we want to be as close
to that area as possible,because that's like, yeah,
because we're able to reachpeople from like different parts
(31:21):
of like gilbert and chandlertoo.
So, yeah, anyways, thanks forasking.
I'm excited about it, pumpedabout it and again, I didn't
even have to say nothing, sothat's my favorite kind of
campaign so far, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, before we wrap what?
What's a few things that youwould tell the new church
planner or somebody that'sthinking about church?
You've been on an eight yearjourney.
You've gone ups and downs, youstuck it out.
You know you're seeing somegreat things happen right now,
but what would you tell the newchurch planner?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, I would say I never understood the phrase, but
I totally get it now.
People overestimate what theycan do in a year, underestimate
what they can do in a decade.
I think when God there's a book, God, there's a book, the
(32:11):
Making of a Leader by Robert JClinton.
I would have them read that andrealize, especially if you're
younger like me, by God's gracehe doesn't use us, he loves us.
And so what I really love isnow, when I look at the story of
eight years, I hated it just ofnever having a huge success
story, just slowly growing andthen losing people and then
growing a bit more.
You know three steps ahead, twosteps back.
(32:32):
But when you read that book yourealize, oh, God wants to do
something powerful in me beforehe ever does something powerful
through me.
And so I think, realizing thatchurch planning is a long game,
God, God thinks in decades, wethink in days, and so being very
slow.
And I have seen people startwith a huge flash and a huge
(32:56):
crowd and it dwindle away almostjust as fast, Right.
So I think there's something.
I think there's something aboutbeing a lot wiser than we did
and starting with more peoplethan we did.
But I wouldn't be toodiscouraged, starting small and
being slow.
What is that in Zephaniah?
Do not despise small beginnings.
So stay faithful, give at leasta decade of your life to it and
(33:19):
enjoy it.
I'm just really grateful I atleast had the mind to know.
I think, because I'm a pastor'skid, I need to enjoy my kids.
My family is so much moreimportant than ministry.
I know that to the core of mybeing and I think being a
pastor's kid helped me learnthat lesson fast.
So it's like oh, at the end ofthe day, I would much rather
have a thriving, healthy, happymarriage and family than a
(33:40):
church.
So work on that, first andforemost in your own soul, and
just be grateful for all the thedifferent parts of the journey.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's a long one.
Yeah, yeah, amen, man, I lovethat, I love that.
Persevere through it all, man,longevity is a big deal, right?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Longevity matters.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And I get.
It's like most things.
You don't, you don't see at thebeginning, like you were saying
, you know year one, you want todo big things, but it doesn't
happen.
But you stick at something for10 years and you have a far
better chance of success ifyou're thinking in 10-year
periods versus one year.
So I love that, trey.
It's been great man.
(34:19):
Thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Thanks so much, frank , appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Where should people go to find your website and
where they can give to thebuilding fund?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
My guy.
Yeah, so you can learn about meat treyvancampcom, but our
church is just pcchurch and youcan do the next steps button on
the bottom to give to thebuilding fund if you would so
desire.
But I imagine these otherchurch planners probably won't
be doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
You never know, we'll try toget it out to everyone.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
I didn't know that other guy was doing this either.
You know yesterday's check, soyou never know what's gonna
happen.
But yeah, pcchurch, I'm superpumped.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I landed that short url yeah, so so good yeah,
that's where you can find usawesome man.
Thanks trey.
Thanks for coming on the show,thanks guys for listening and we
will catch you next week onanother episode of modern church
leader.
See ya.
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