September 19, 2024 • 31 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
All right, hey guys.
Frank here with another episodeof Modern Church Leader.
I am here with Phil Cook,coming all the way from
Nashville.
Phil, it's great to have you onthe show today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hey, I'm thrilled to be here.
Sorry for my glamorousbackground, but I'm on the road
we just got into Nashville, soit's the best I could do.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, it's all good, we can hear you well, you know
the mic's picking up and we'regood, so you just made the move,
though you were saying youmoved from kind of the Southern
California, our company CookMedia Group, we decided to have
a presence in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Obviously it's a growing market and things in
media are happening there.
We'll keep our presence in LosAngeles, but we're spread out
and we love it.
So I decided my wife and Idecided we're going to move to
Nashville.
Help start the presence here,get it launched and get things
going, yeah, and we'll see whathappens.
But it's a great town.
Plus, it doesn't hurt that ourgrandkids are here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So we're having fun.
That's the win.
I feel like you've moved forlife, unless they go somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, possibly.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
My in-laws live pretty close.
They don't live in San Diegowhere I'm at, but they live
about two hours from us, sothey're here all the time.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it's good.
I'll be in LA a lot.
You know I don't know about you, but I travel about a quarter
of a million miles a year.
I had a really a breakdownabout five or six years ago and
I thought, if I have to get onanother airplane, I'm going to
kill myself.
And it was like God spoke to mevery clearly and said but you
have no other skills, this isall you're good at.
(01:31):
We're filming all over theworld.
We shot in about 70 countries,so it's an interesting thing.
But yeah, I live out ofsuitcases and airline lounges.
That's about where I spend mostof my time.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I want to get into what you do and making sure our
audience kind of know who youare.
But what's your airline?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
American Well being in LA and Burbank before and now
being in Nashville, american, Iwas a Delta guy for a long time
and then I switched to Americanand it's been good so far.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay, yeah, I have a good buddy.
He was a captain for American.
He just retired this year.
He was there for a long time,so American's his thing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know you fly a lot.
When I walked up to the ticketcounter at LAX you know, the
fourth largest busiest airportin the world Massive and as I'm
walking up to the ticket counterthe lady said oh, mr Cook,
welcome back.
So nice to see you.
And I thought, if that ladyknows my name, I'm here way too
much.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You're like processing how to feel about
that particular thing, You'relike I don't know about that.
Totally, totally Well, man,you're quite the guy.
You've had quite the career andstill going strong.
Tell us about you and what youdo in Cook Media Group.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, we launched Cook Media Group in 91.
I've always been a film andvideo guy.
We've shot Super Bowlcommercials, we produce Super
Bowl commercials.
We've, as I said, shot in about70 countries around the world.
We're leaving next week forGhana.
We're doing a week-longteaching session, a media
training session for about 200filmmakers and media
(03:04):
professionals from all overAfrica.
So yeah, we do a lot.
We work with churches, ministryorganizations.
We've done a lot of big secularprojects.
I spent the vast majority of mycareer in Hollywood, but I
really want to focus on churchesand ministry organizations.
I think we live in amedia-driven culture and unless
(03:24):
we can master the media for ourfaith and use it to reach the
world, we're not going to makemuch of an impact.
One study in Britain says theaverage person sees about 10,000
media messages every single dayand in that world if we don't
speak that language, we're nevergoing to break through.
So I just have a passion tohelp Christian leaders and
churches and ministryorganizations and we've worked
(03:45):
with the Museum of the Bible inWashington DC, the Salvation
Army I mean just a wide range oforganizations and churches and
I just am passionate about usingour skills to focus on helping
the church get that message outthere, because I think the
church is the hope of the future.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, amen.
Well, yeah, that's ouraudiences, mostly church leaders
of some sort, whether they'revolunteers or senior pastors,
and we serve churches of allkinds of shapes and sizes all
over the world and man churchesgetting kind of the media side
of things.
(04:22):
Churches are amazing.
They get up every week andproduce tons of content, but
taking that and like gettinginto like digital media that
spreads is somehow like tricky.
It's like not what churches areborn to do.
You know what I'm saying, it'slike a skill set.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It is, and sometimes when people ask us what we do
for a living, we jokingly say wehelp Christians not suck at the
media, and if you've seen muchChristian television or many
Christian movies, you'll knowwe'll be busy for the rest of
our life.
There's much work to be done,but it's true.
It's true Pastors they go toBible school or seminary and
(05:03):
they learn to get the messageright, but they don't learn how
to share that message in thedigital culture that we live in
today, and so I think my callingis to go out and help them do
that more effectively.
So it's great.
I get to work with somewonderful leaders out there and
it's really quite fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, what kind of?
I mean, give us a littleinsight into the kind of
projects you guys have worked onfor churches or ministries or
you know anybody in kind of theChristian space like.
Give us some highlights.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We've been doing it for a long time.
I have one one of the biggest,one of the most interesting,
I'll say, projects we ever didwas about 20 years ago, oddly
enough, with Billy Graham, andthey came to us and said we'd
like to make a one-hourtelevision special that somebody
who'd never in a million yearswould watch a Billy Graham show
would actually watch.
And so we took them at theirword and we opened it with a guy
(05:54):
committing suicide in his car alate one night and it was like
MTV meets Billy Graham.
It was just a wild, wildone-hour special and when we
showed the rough cut to theministry, they hated it.
The leadership hated it.
They said this will never air.
This is not what we're about,no way.
And one of the leaders it wasvery interesting.
One of the leaders this is backwhen screeners were on VHS tape
(06:17):
and one of the leaders left thescreener on his coffee table
after watching it and he wasjust furious.
He hated it so much.
His wife came in later and, notknowing what it was, she put it
in the vcr and watched the showand one of their guys told me
that with tears in her eyes shesaid honey, I don't know what
this is, but people should seethis, and so they put it on the
air, aired it on one of theirglobal specials, and um actually
(06:40):
had a.
They put a spokesperson on thefront end saying now people,
what you're about to see isreally weird, so I just want you
to be ready, which was justawful, but they aired it, and
the Los Angeles Times reportedthat it generated a million
calls for salvation.
Wow, so that one televisionspecial generated a million
(07:01):
calls from people around theworld for salvation, which means
my father, who was a pastor,spent his whole life in the
ministry.
That one hour special reachedmore people than he reached in
his entire lifetime.
So you know, it's obviouslydifferent.
You know my dad was a pastorand he was there with people
constantly.
However, to not understand thepower of television, it's just a
(07:23):
huge mistake, I think.
So we live in a digital agetoday and short videos and
YouTube and social media havecome into play as well.
But I still believe in thepower of TV and I would love to
see more churches and ministryorganizations use those and get
the word out there that you know, make Jesus famous as it is.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean that's pretty cool.
I mean thank god for that wife.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
you know that well, it's amazing how these things
work.
It's amazing.
But we've had, you know, we'vehad the opportunity to shoot
stuff all over the world.
We shot in moldova, where thenumber one, the number one
export of the country of moldovais women.
Uh, you know, sex trafficking.
There is just a globalphenomenon.
It's just unbelievable.
And we worked with anorganization that takes girls
(08:09):
out of orphanages.
You know, at 16 years old girlsare aged out.
You know these giant ex-Sovietorphanages.
In the Soviet era they thoughtthey could raise children better
than families could.
So they just people, would sendtheir kids to these giant
orphanages and when they're 16,they're aged out and they're
given 30, the equivalent of $30and a bus ticket to their
(08:29):
hometown, whether they havefamily there or not.
And so these sex traffickerswill meet them outside the gates
and say, look, we have jobs inEngland and Europe and France,
and you know nannies andhousekeepers and all kinds of
things and housekeepers and allkinds of things.
They pick them up and thesegirls are never heard from again
.
And so we did an interestingdocumentary on that, and I love
(08:49):
doing documentary films becausethey're a powerful way to tell
stories of what's happening outthere.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right, yeah, absolutely, man, it sounds like
you do some incredible work.
How are you?
What's your take?
I guess you're a creative guyand it sounds like that's your.
That's what you've done.
Um, I guess, taking it intolike the actual church and
helping church leaders with likecreativity, like what's your
(09:15):
take on that?
I would just love yourperspective on creatives working
inside churches and how theycan be more effective or have a
bigger voice in their church orbring some of these kind of
thoughts whether it's TV orsocial media type of video but
helping them make the case forwhy this is important and why
churches should be good at it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It's interesting because we live in this
media-driven culture Churchestoday.
They're going to have a socialmedia person.
They're going to have amarketing person or a creative
designer.
They're going to have, maybe, avideo person.
They're going to have a, youknow, a marketing person or a
creative designer.
They're going to have, you know, maybe, a video person they're
going to have, you know, if it'sa big church, they're going to
have staff people.
And yet what's interesting to meis there's a ton of leadership
(09:56):
resources out there.
You know, john Maxwell reallyis one of the key people that
opened that door in a big way,and today we have some amazing
resources for leaders, butthere's incredibly little on
leading creative people.
And as you know, frank,creative people are a little
(10:17):
different.
We're different from mostpeople, and so there is an art
form to leading creative peopleand, having shot in 70 countries
around the world, I've met filmcrews from Russia, china,
africa, india.
We've worked together all overthe world.
I've met film crews from Russia, china, africa, india.
We've worked together all overthe world and it's interesting
seeing the differences inleading creative people in
different parts of the world.
So a couple of years ago I wrotea book called Ideas on a
Deadline how to Be Creative whenthe Clock is Ticking, because
(10:38):
my whole career has been upagainst broadcast television
deadlines.
I discovered years ago thatthey're not going to move the
date of the Super Bowl because Ican't come up with a creative
idea for a commercial and wehave to hit deadlines in the
television world.
And yet I've discovered thatthere are brilliantly creative
people who are paralyzed at theidea of a deadline.
They really struggle with it,and it's not just for creative
(10:59):
people.
All of us have to have a reportdue on Tuesday or we have to do
a presentation in a week and wehave to face deadlines.
So I wrote the book Ideas on aDeadline to really equip people
for how to come up withbrilliant ideas when the
pressure is on.
And I've learned that you know,forget the pressure, it doesn't
matter.
If you have to have an idea byWednesday, you can do it.
(11:21):
You don't necessarily.
You know.
So many people say, well, yeah,I could come up with something
great, but I'll need a couplemore weeks.
No, no, no, you can do it whenyou need to do it.
It's been proven over and over.
And so I really took a deepdive into research about
creativity under stress and itwas remarkable what I discovered
from and I interviewed MadisonAvenue copywriters for big
agencies in New York.
(11:42):
I interviewed Hollywoodscreenwriters and directors
people at the top of theircreative game and it was just
interesting to see how thatworks.
No-transcript, really leading,the art of leading creative
people is absolutely critical inthis day and age we live in.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, side side note, I think you
know tithely is a tech company,so we have creative people.
Uh, I also think engineersactually live in that creative
space.
They're they're writing code,but they're very much creatives,
uh like in terms of like howthey.
They may not be doing graphicsor videos or whatever, but like
(12:20):
there's a creative element ofwhat they do and like having
deadlines is an interestingthing to work within, right,
like being creative and havingdeadlines mixing.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So I, I love the, the idea of the book, um, and I
guess, frank, I've gotten to thepoint where I won't even accept
a project unless it has adeadline Right, you know,
because I tend to just put itoff, and put it off, and put it
off, and when I see it, in fact,I jokingly say that I don't
even start a project till I seethe deadline approaching in the
distance.
There's a joke in the creativeworld that I love.
(12:53):
I love deadlines, I love thewhooshing sound they make as
they fly by.
But the truth is, deadlineshelp me back time the project,
help me map it out.
I know when I have to do myresearch, I know when I have to
deliver and do the hardcorewriting or thinking, and so
deadlines could be a real toolto help people be amazingly
(13:13):
creative.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, how do church leaders lead creative people?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
well, Well, there's a number of things.
I think one of the key thingsis balancing challenge and
stability.
You know, some leaders think weneed to challenge my creative
team.
I need to make them think ifthey don't design a great logo,
we'll go out of business.
Others think I should leavethem alone and not mess with
them and let them do their thing.
You know there's a real balancethere.
I think you want to give them achallenge.
(13:40):
You want to get them out on theedge, push them outside their
comfort zone.
However, if they're worried,you know that if they fail,
they'll lose their job.
They're not going to come upwith a very creative idea Right.
So they need that.
They need the stability ofknowing that, look, this, this
organization is going to be here.
We're here for you.
We believe in you.
We're going to work throughthis and, at the same time, push
them outside the comfort zone,give them that little edge.
(14:01):
But I know leaders that willyell at their creative team.
I know leaders that will, youknow, say everything's over.
If this is not going to be agood video, we're done.
That does not inspirecreativity.
So, that balance betweenstability and creativity is
incredibly important and alongthat line, I also think we need
to make the creative person saywe need to protect them from
(14:24):
excessive criticism.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Very often there's, as I'm sure you've seen, in a
lot of companies.
Everybody's a critic, butnobody's going to be that
creative person that comes upwith the idea, and so that's a
valuable person.
I think one of the reasons Iget hired as much as I do is I
can start with a blank page.
I can start with nothing andcome up with a great idea, and
(14:46):
that's a real skill and that'ssomething that you know is in
demand.
However, I've worked inministry organizations and
churches where you know six oreight people from the creative
or from the leadership team.
They're going to criticizeeverything I come up with.
Right right, because they can.
And so they don't understand howhard it is.
So, as a leader, it's your jobto protect your team, and I'll
(15:08):
tell you if you could protectyour creative team from it.
Doesn't mean they can't becriticized.
We want to kick around and havea healthy discussion about
ideas, but excessive criticismwe need to protect them from
that, and if you do that, yourcreative team will walk through
a fire for you.
It's amazing how they'llrespond if you really help them.
Keep the critics at bay longenough for them to come up with
(15:32):
something brilliant.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
How do you keep creative folksenergized If you're in the
church setting where you'redoing the same thing every week?
I guess it's less monotonous toan extent.
How do those folks get energyand continue to be creative in
that environment?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
One of the challenges I face is I want to find out
what lights up every creativeperson I work with.
So if I'm on a film crew, I maybe with 12 or 15 people and I
want to find out what.
What lights up every creativeperson I work with.
So if I'm on a film crew, I maybe with 12 or 15 people and I
want to know the people thatenjoy being pushed, and I'll
push them and I want to enjoythe people that don't want to be
pushed, and I'll I'll leavethem alone.
I want to know the people thatwould rather have time off,
because that that inspires them.
(16:14):
I want to know the people thatlike working late, because that
inspires them.
So part of this is kind ofknowing what that magic key is
that really sparks thecreativity in your team, and
everybody's different.
You know it's funny.
I don't think we put enoughthought into the time of day
we're most creative.
I'm.
You know we all live bycircadian rhythm.
You know we have ups and downsall day long, as you see.
(16:40):
You know You're having yourcoffee now, because you're
probably hitting a slump, andwhat I've discovered is I'm
insanely creative between six inthe morning and noon.
I mean, I can write like amadman, I can focus like a
madman, I can really do amazingwork in the morning, in the
afternoon and evening.
Forget it, there's no way, it'snot going to happen.
My wife, on the other hand,Kathleen.
She lights up at night, shebecomes super creative and wants
(17:01):
to work after dinner.
I don't understand that, andthere's a what's funny is
there's a small sliver of peoplethat are their creative best in
the afternoon.
I totally don't get that Right.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So part of this is knowing when you're at your best
, even when some of us work atfull time jobs and we can't just
block that time Right.
But I remember when I startedmy career I learned this and I
was working full time with anorganization and I couldn't
block that time.
However, when I discovered thatI was at my best early, I would
come in in the morning at 6 am,two hours before anybody else
(17:34):
early.
I would come in in the morningat 6 am, two hours before
anybody else, and I wrote myfirst two books in those
two-hour blocks because Irealized I was more creative.
I could accomplish more in twohours at my best than I could at
six or eight hours the rest ofthe day.
The rest of the day, yeah.
So understanding the times ofday that you're best and trying
(17:54):
to focus as much as possible onthat.
And the other thing I don'twant to preach here, but the
other thing is knowing whereyou're at your best.
For me, a bank vault wouldprobably be the most creative
place I can imagine.
I cannot be distracted, I don'twant to.
I shut my windows, I shut mydrapes.
I don't want to have the TV on,the radio on, I can't have
(18:14):
music on.
I want total silence.
Other people there's one studythat indicates there's a certain
number of people that areinspired by the dull roar of
coffee shop conversation whichis probably why you see people
at Starbucks with their laptops.
So everybody find out.
I encourage people to find outwhere you're most creative and
try to focus your best time ofday in those places and you'll
(18:38):
see I mean, I'm not kiddingYou'll see a dramatic
breakthrough in the quality ofwork that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine carving that time out is like
tricky.
Like I find, you know, likeyou're doing all the things.
You got meetings like just inmy own life, right, you got
meetings.
You're on Zoom, bouncing aroundbetween things.
So for me it's almost like youknow, like last night I take one
of my kids to basketballpractice and for that like hour
(19:04):
and a half like I can sit in mycar on my laptop and like crush,
like crank stuff out becausethere's like no, it's good, it's
your point.
Like there's no distractions.
There's also like there's nomeetings for whatever reason,
like my mind can like stop beingon on all the other stuff and
(19:25):
then like focus on gettingwhatever stuff I need actually
like deep work done, you know.
So finding those moments,sometimes for me it's just like
being out somewhere, likegetting away from the desk,
getting away from your normalenvironment.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well you're.
You're right about distraction.
There's not one study that I'veever I've ever encountered that
indicates multitasking helps.
So the idea that we can watchTV, work on our report, have the
radio on or other stuff goingon, check email every once in a
while, is a total myth.
We can do that, but it lowersyour IQ a significant amount.
(19:59):
I mean, one study indicatesthat when you're multitasking
you lower your IQ to the levelas if you were smoking weed.
So if that's the kind of workyou want to do, great.
But if you're trying to exceland do amazing creative work,
you need to focus, focus, focus,focus yeah and you know that it
makes a big difference yeah,totally what.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
what have you seen, uh, in, you know, in your
journeys, uh around, like thechurch and creativity over the
years, like I'm just you know,like you've been doing you
referenced the TV thing you didfor Billy Graham 10 years ago.
You've been at this for a while.
Have you seen just creativitycontinue to get better inside
(20:43):
churches, or is it not good, orI don't know what's your take on
it?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It's exponentially better.
It's amazing today, in fact.
Uh, you know, the, I, the.
I wonder sometimes that the weused to say uh, at the Grammy
awards we'd often hear peopleaccept a Grammy and say you know
, I got my start singing inchurch, right, and I'm expecting
any any year.
Here we're going to see someonewin an Oscar and say I got my
(21:07):
start running video at church.
I can name you a number ofA-list commercial directors that
are doing amazing work who gotstarted as church media guys.
So it's gone up.
I mean the church didn'tappreciate creativity when I
started.
I remember working for a clientone time that he actually had
cards printed that he put onevery computer in the building
(21:29):
that said just follow myinstructions.
I mean he didn't want creativethinking, he didn't want anybody
thinking on their own, he justyou do what I tell you to do and
shut up, and I thought you know.
I shook hands with him andwalked away.
I wasn't about to work withthat guy, but over the years
it's evolved in a wonderful wayand people today pastors get it.
(21:53):
They understand creativity.
Because here's the thing it'sreally not about the creativity,
it's about creating a spacewhere people will want to hear
your message.
I say a lot of times perceptionin this culture that we live in
, where I said you know peoplesee 10,000 media messages a day.
If they don't have a goodfeeling about you or your church
, they're never going to walk in.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
They're never going to come check it out.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So creativity is a way to help people have that
good feeling.
You know, everything they seeabout it can be positive and
inspirational and they'rethinking, well, maybe I could go
hear that, go check that churchout or go hear that pastor.
And I just look at creativityas a way to open doors for
people to hear the ultimatemessage.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right yeah, what about getting things online
nowadays, like with social mediaand shorts, specifically like
do you think much about thatstuff or have you done any work
in that category around justshort form video and we've done
hundreds and hundreds of shortform videos for all kinds of
situations fundraising,marketing, awareness.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
We did all of the video for the Museum of the
Bible in Washington DC, frombefore the groundbreaking all
the way through to the launch,and we photographed their
collection and we did hundredsof videos with them alone Just
short little videos to informdonors of what's going on, to
let the public see what'shappening, and they made a huge
(23:13):
impact out there.
And short videos one studyindicates that short videos are
the number one marketing tool inAmerica right now, and I'll sit
on a plane regularly next topeople that just have their
phone and they're just flippingthrough one short video Just
flipping through shorts rightFor hours, hours, yeah, yeah,
and so and I'm talking two tofour minute videos, for the most
part, in fact.
I'll tell you somethinginteresting, frank we've done a
lot of fundraising videos forevents like a big church
(23:36):
anniversary or something, or acelebration kind of a thing, and
we used to do a 10, 15 minutevideo that you know told the
story of the church.
That would inspire everybody.
Now we're doing maybe four orfive two to four minute videos
instead and playing thosethroughout the evening.
We've discovered, rather thanforce people to sit through a 10
minute video once, they reallyenjoy seeing a two to four
(24:00):
minute video placedstrategically throughout the
evening.
So short videos have reallyimpacted the way we do a lot of
things out there and it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
My, my kids are like you know.
They're middle schoolers.
Yep, they have their iPads atthe house.
We're not going phones yet.
I don't know when I'll givethem phones, but they got the
iPads in the house and likeYouTube shorts.
They don't.
They don't really watch likereg, they don't really watch
even regular YouTube videos.
It's like they just watch theshorts.
(24:30):
It's crazy.
My mother-in-law comes over ohyeah, instagram and YouTube
shorts.
She's telling me about somerecipe or some health thing or
whatever that she found onYouTube shorts.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Well, I'll tell you this.
One study indicates the 55 andolder crowd watches the same
number of short videos as the20-something crowd.
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I 100% believe it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
It's a tool for everybody in your church to use
to promote what you're doing.
By the way, you mentioned yourphone with your kids.
It's interesting to me that thefounders of the tech world
Silicon Valley, the Microsofts,the Apples, the founders of that
never let their kids havephones for a long time and they
obviously know something that alot of us don't, and it's sad.
My 10-year-old granddaughtershe'll have friends come over
(25:19):
and they all have phones andthere's no way she's getting one
, not for a long time.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And it's just really sad.
I tell my kids all the timeit's a a different, it's a
different age.
Every time they ask me, I'mlike oh it's going to be 26 or
45.
Oh, you're going to be 32.
Like I'm always changing, it'ssomething way out.
You know, that's true.
That's true, I don't know, dude, it's not going to be for a
while.
(25:51):
No man, it's a different world.
Yeah, it totally is.
You're, uh, this is like it'ssuper fun.
We could sit, I could just sitthere and pick your brain.
But you're coming to ourconference.
It's our first ever kind of bigusers conference.
Uh, in dallas in october you'reteaching a workshop, so I, I
mean, it's still a ways out, thedeadline is there.
But you're, you know, maybe youhaven't started working, but
any preview on what you might besharing?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No, I'm actually going to talk about the secrets
of leading creative people.
I think it's so important thatpeople understand this, and so
what better place than a churchyou know the modern church
leaders leader conference totalk about leading creative
people, and so it'll be the I'mthe only one I of my kind there
that's going to be doing it, andso I'm going to have a really
interesting talk and and I thinkand here's the thing people
(26:32):
listening to this or watchingyou may be a graphic designer or
a video person or whatever, butone day you're going to step up
and be leading other graphicdesigners.
And so you need to understandnow how to lead, inspire and
motivate creative people.
And certainly if you're achurch pastor, if you're a
leader at a church, youdefinitely need to understand
(26:54):
how to lead and inspire creativepeople, because you know what
you preach to the people in theroom on Sunday, but your
creative team is the key togetting that message to
potentially millions of peoplebeyond the walls of your church.
So the more you can inspire andmotivate them, the better off
you'll be.
So I would encourage peoplecheck out the workshop, because
it's gonna have some reallyamazing techniques, secrets and
(27:16):
ideas that will help take yourleadership to a whole nother
level.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I love that.
Yeah, no, you are one of one atthe conference.
It's gonna be fun.
There's a lot, I mean, I think,going back to what you're
saying earlier, like creativityis uh, I mean I think I've seen
it too like the creatives in thechurch, uh, though you know
it's not the sort of pastoralroles, but like I think over the
last 10 years maybe morecreativity in the church has
(27:42):
exploded and uh, but stillunderserved, you know, to your
point around like there's tonson leadership, not a lot on
leading creatives or beingcreative in a church and whatnot
.
So I'm excited about thesession, um, it'll be fun what
about between now and then?
where can folks go to like learna little bit about you or any
resources you recommend forcreatives in the church?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
my.
My hub is philcookcom.
I'm cook with an e, so easyh-H-I-L-C-O-O-K-Ecom Everything.
My blog is there and I'mwriting on these issues all the
time, so I'd encourage people togo there.
Our company site iscookmediagroupcom, but yeah, I'd
encourage people to go checkout my book.
You know Ideas on a Deadline,how to Be Creative when the
(28:29):
clock is ticking, because really, if you you know sundays come
with relentless regularity, ohyeah, constantly.
They show up every week and wegot to be prepared for that with
new ideas and new brilliantthoughts and projects, and so if
there's anything creativepeople need, it's an injection
of how to deal with deadlinesmore effectively, and so I'd
encourage people to check thatout.
And then the book has got ahuge bibliography and a resource
of other creative stuff.
(28:50):
That would be remarkable forpeople Can they get that at,
like philcookcom.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Oh, you can get it at philcookcom.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
You can get it on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Barnes Noble any place you go.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Hey, one quick final question.
Sure, and it may be off on atangent In the creative space,
especially when we're talkingabout content and getting it out
into the world.
Are there any tools that you'veseen cropping up for creatives
to help do this better?
Anything in the AI space thatyou've been messing around with?
(29:20):
How's the tech side of thingshit your world?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
You know it's funny.
Ai is an interesting thing.
I really strongly encouragecreative people to explore AI.
But be cautious.
I did an interesting thing theother day.
I went on AI and I said whatare the top 10 biggest
criticisms of Phil Cook?
And so it thought for a secondand spit them out.
(29:46):
And they were amazing.
They were totally believable,you know, totally believable and
remarkable actually.
And so then I said, okay, whatkind of people are making these
criticisms?
And they said you know rivalproducers, critics, you know
some ministry leaders that don'tlike what you do.
It was very legit.
But then I asked it okay, tellme the names of the people that
(30:08):
have said these things.
And it said it came back withwell, nobody's actually said
those things, but I'm programmedto give you an answer to every
question you ask.
And so it essentially made itup, and so we have to be really
careful.
So AI will just make stuff upthat it doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
That is crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I just thought that was fascinating, yeah, and so I
don't want to let that list getout, because it was a pretty
legit list of problems, but it'sa great example of how, when we
explore new technology, we justneed to be sensitive and
careful.
You know and be aware of itsstrengths, its weaknesses, its
limitations, and use itaccordingly.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, amen to that, no doubt.
Well, phil, thanks for comingon the show.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Oh, it's been fun.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Thank you so much, absolutely Looking forward to
seeing you at the conference.
In the meantime, guys, go checkout the book.
Go to philcookcom, like theeasiest place to go find the
book and just learn more aboutPhil uh and the cook media group
man.
You guys are up to good work.
I love it.
Um well, guys, thanks forjoining, excited for, uh, our
conference coming up.
(31:15):
We'll see you guys next week onanother episode of modern
church leader and uh, phil,thanks again and we'll see you
guys next week.
Bye.
All right, hey guys.
Frank here with another episodeof Modern Church Leader.
I am here with Phil Cook,coming all the way from
Nashville.
Phil, it's great to have you onthe show today.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hey, I'm thrilled to be here.
Sorry for my glamorousbackground, but I'm on the road
we just got into Nashville, soit's the best I could do.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, it's all good, we can hear you well, you know
the mic's picking up and we'regood, so you just made the move,
though you were saying youmoved from kind of the Southern
California, our company CookMedia Group, we decided to have
a presence in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Obviously it's a growing market and things in
media are happening there.
We'll keep our presence in LosAngeles, but we're spread out
and we love it.
So I decided my wife and Idecided we're going to move to
Nashville.
Help start the presence here,get it launched and get things
going, yeah, and we'll see whathappens.
But it's a great town.
Plus, it doesn't hurt that ourgrandkids are here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So we're having fun.
That's the win.
I feel like you've moved forlife, unless they go somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, possibly.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
My in-laws live pretty close.
They don't live in San Diegowhere I'm at, but they live
about two hours from us, sothey're here all the time.
It's great.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, it's good.
I'll be in LA a lot.
You know I don't know about you, but I travel about a quarter
of a million miles a year.
I had a really a breakdownabout five or six years ago and
I thought, if I have to get onanother airplane, I'm going to
kill myself.
And it was like God spoke to mevery clearly and said but you
have no other skills, this isall you're good at.
(01:31):
We're filming all over theworld.
We shot in about 70 countries,so it's an interesting thing.
But yeah, I live out ofsuitcases and airline lounges.
That's about where I spend mostof my time.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I want to get into what you do and making sure our
audience kind of know who youare.
But what's your airline?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
American Well being in LA and Burbank before and now
being in Nashville, american, Iwas a Delta guy for a long time
and then I switched to Americanand it's been good so far.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Okay, yeah, I have a good buddy.
He was a captain for American.
He just retired this year.
He was there for a long time,so American's his thing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know you fly a lot.
When I walked up to the ticketcounter at LAX you know, the
fourth largest busiest airportin the world Massive and as I'm
walking up to the ticket counterthe lady said oh, mr Cook,
welcome back.
So nice to see you.
And I thought, if that ladyknows my name, I'm here way too
much.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
You're like processing how to feel about
that particular thing, You'relike I don't know about that.
Totally, totally Well, man,you're quite the guy.
You've had quite the career andstill going strong.
Tell us about you and what youdo in Cook Media Group.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, we launched Cook Media Group in 91.
I've always been a film andvideo guy.
We've shot Super Bowlcommercials, we produce Super
Bowl commercials.
We've, as I said, shot in about70 countries around the world.
We're leaving next week forGhana.
We're doing a week-longteaching session, a media
training session for about 200filmmakers and media
(03:04):
professionals from all overAfrica.
So yeah, we do a lot.
We work with churches, ministryorganizations.
We've done a lot of big secularprojects.
I spent the vast majority of mycareer in Hollywood, but I
really want to focus on churchesand ministry organizations.
I think we live in amedia-driven culture and unless
(03:24):
we can master the media for ourfaith and use it to reach the
world, we're not going to makemuch of an impact.
One study in Britain says theaverage person sees about 10,000
media messages every single dayand in that world if we don't
speak that language, we're nevergoing to break through.
So I just have a passion tohelp Christian leaders and
churches and ministryorganizations and we've worked
(03:45):
with the Museum of the Bible inWashington DC, the Salvation
Army I mean just a wide range oforganizations and churches and
I just am passionate about usingour skills to focus on helping
the church get that message outthere, because I think the
church is the hope of the future.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, amen.
Well, yeah, that's ouraudiences, mostly church leaders
of some sort, whether they'revolunteers or senior pastors,
and we serve churches of allkinds of shapes and sizes all
over the world and man churchesgetting kind of the media side
of things.
(04:22):
Churches are amazing.
They get up every week andproduce tons of content, but
taking that and like gettinginto like digital media that
spreads is somehow like tricky.
It's like not what churches areborn to do.
You know what I'm saying, it'slike a skill set.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It is, and sometimes when people ask us what we do
for a living, we jokingly say wehelp Christians not suck at the
media, and if you've seen muchChristian television or many
Christian movies, you'll knowwe'll be busy for the rest of
our life.
There's much work to be done,but it's true.
It's true Pastors they go toBible school or seminary and
(05:03):
they learn to get the messageright, but they don't learn how
to share that message in thedigital culture that we live in
today, and so I think my callingis to go out and help them do
that more effectively.
So it's great.
I get to work with somewonderful leaders out there and
it's really quite fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, what kind of?
I mean, give us a littleinsight into the kind of
projects you guys have worked onfor churches or ministries or
you know anybody in kind of theChristian space like.
Give us some highlights.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We've been doing it for a long time.
I have one one of the biggest,one of the most interesting,
I'll say, projects we ever didwas about 20 years ago, oddly
enough, with Billy Graham, andthey came to us and said we'd
like to make a one-hourtelevision special that somebody
who'd never in a million yearswould watch a Billy Graham show
would actually watch.
And so we took them at theirword and we opened it with a guy
(05:54):
committing suicide in his car alate one night and it was like
MTV meets Billy Graham.
It was just a wild, wildone-hour special and when we
showed the rough cut to theministry, they hated it.
The leadership hated it.
They said this will never air.
This is not what we're about,no way.
And one of the leaders it wasvery interesting.
One of the leaders this is backwhen screeners were on VHS tape
(06:17):
and one of the leaders left thescreener on his coffee table
after watching it and he wasjust furious.
He hated it so much.
His wife came in later and, notknowing what it was, she put it
in the vcr and watched the showand one of their guys told me
that with tears in her eyes shesaid honey, I don't know what
this is, but people should seethis, and so they put it on the
air, aired it on one of theirglobal specials, and um actually
(06:40):
had a.
They put a spokesperson on thefront end saying now people,
what you're about to see isreally weird, so I just want you
to be ready, which was justawful, but they aired it, and
the Los Angeles Times reportedthat it generated a million
calls for salvation.
Wow, so that one televisionspecial generated a million
(07:01):
calls from people around theworld for salvation, which means
my father, who was a pastor,spent his whole life in the
ministry.
That one hour special reachedmore people than he reached in
his entire lifetime.
So you know, it's obviouslydifferent.
You know my dad was a pastorand he was there with people
constantly.
However, to not understand thepower of television, it's just a
(07:23):
huge mistake, I think.
So we live in a digital agetoday and short videos and
YouTube and social media havecome into play as well.
But I still believe in thepower of TV and I would love to
see more churches and ministryorganizations use those and get
the word out there that you know, make Jesus famous as it is.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, I mean that's pretty cool.
I mean thank god for that wife.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
you know that well, it's amazing how these things
work.
It's amazing.
But we've had, you know, we'vehad the opportunity to shoot
stuff all over the world.
We shot in moldova, where thenumber one, the number one
export of the country of moldovais women.
Uh, you know, sex trafficking.
There is just a globalphenomenon.
It's just unbelievable.
And we worked with anorganization that takes girls
(08:09):
out of orphanages.
You know, at 16 years old girlsare aged out.
You know these giant ex-Sovietorphanages.
In the Soviet era they thoughtthey could raise children better
than families could.
So they just people, would sendtheir kids to these giant
orphanages and when they're 16,they're aged out and they're
given 30, the equivalent of $30and a bus ticket to their
(08:29):
hometown, whether they havefamily there or not.
And so these sex traffickerswill meet them outside the gates
and say, look, we have jobs inEngland and Europe and France,
and you know nannies andhousekeepers and all kinds of
things and housekeepers and allkinds of things.
They pick them up and thesegirls are never heard from again
.
And so we did an interestingdocumentary on that, and I love
(08:49):
doing documentary films becausethey're a powerful way to tell
stories of what's happening outthere.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right, yeah, absolutely, man, it sounds like
you do some incredible work.
How are you?
What's your take?
I guess you're a creative guyand it sounds like that's your.
That's what you've done.
Um, I guess, taking it intolike the actual church and
helping church leaders with likecreativity, like what's your
(09:15):
take on that?
I would just love yourperspective on creatives working
inside churches and how theycan be more effective or have a
bigger voice in their church orbring some of these kind of
thoughts whether it's TV orsocial media type of video but
helping them make the case forwhy this is important and why
churches should be good at it.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
It's interesting because we live in this
media-driven culture Churchestoday.
They're going to have a socialmedia person.
They're going to have amarketing person or a creative
designer.
They're going to have, maybe, avideo person.
They're going to have a, youknow, a marketing person or a
creative designer.
They're going to have, you know, maybe, a video person they're
going to have, you know, if it'sa big church, they're going to
have staff people.
And yet what's interesting to meis there's a ton of leadership
(09:56):
resources out there.
You know, john Maxwell reallyis one of the key people that
opened that door in a big way,and today we have some amazing
resources for leaders, butthere's incredibly little on
leading creative people.
And as you know, frank,creative people are a little
(10:17):
different.
We're different from mostpeople, and so there is an art
form to leading creative peopleand, having shot in 70 countries
around the world, I've met filmcrews from Russia, china,
africa, india.
We've worked together all overthe world.
I've met film crews from Russia, china, africa, india.
We've worked together all overthe world and it's interesting
seeing the differences inleading creative people in
different parts of the world.
So a couple of years ago I wrotea book called Ideas on a
Deadline how to Be Creative whenthe Clock is Ticking, because
(10:38):
my whole career has been upagainst broadcast television
deadlines.
I discovered years ago thatthey're not going to move the
date of the Super Bowl because Ican't come up with a creative
idea for a commercial and wehave to hit deadlines in the
television world.
And yet I've discovered thatthere are brilliantly creative
people who are paralyzed at theidea of a deadline.
They really struggle with it,and it's not just for creative
(10:59):
people.
All of us have to have a reportdue on Tuesday or we have to do
a presentation in a week and wehave to face deadlines.
So I wrote the book Ideas on aDeadline to really equip people
for how to come up withbrilliant ideas when the
pressure is on.
And I've learned that you know,forget the pressure, it doesn't
matter.
If you have to have an idea byWednesday, you can do it.
(11:21):
You don't necessarily.
You know.
So many people say, well, yeah,I could come up with something
great, but I'll need a couplemore weeks.
No, no, no, you can do it whenyou need to do it.
It's been proven over and over.
And so I really took a deepdive into research about
creativity under stress and itwas remarkable what I discovered
from and I interviewed MadisonAvenue copywriters for big
agencies in New York.
(11:42):
I interviewed Hollywoodscreenwriters and directors
people at the top of theircreative game and it was just
interesting to see how thatworks.
No-transcript, really leading,the art of leading creative
people is absolutely critical inthis day and age we live in.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, uh, side side note, I think you
know tithely is a tech company,so we have creative people.
Uh, I also think engineersactually live in that creative
space.
They're they're writing code,but they're very much creatives,
uh like in terms of like howthey.
They may not be doing graphicsor videos or whatever, but like
(12:20):
there's a creative element ofwhat they do and like having
deadlines is an interestingthing to work within, right,
like being creative and havingdeadlines mixing.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So I, I love the, the idea of the book, um, and I
guess, frank, I've gotten to thepoint where I won't even accept
a project unless it has adeadline Right, you know,
because I tend to just put itoff, and put it off, and put it
off, and when I see it, in fact,I jokingly say that I don't
even start a project till I seethe deadline approaching in the
distance.
There's a joke in the creativeworld that I love.
(12:53):
I love deadlines, I love thewhooshing sound they make as
they fly by.
But the truth is, deadlineshelp me back time the project,
help me map it out.
I know when I have to do myresearch, I know when I have to
deliver and do the hardcorewriting or thinking, and so
deadlines could be a real toolto help people be amazingly
(13:13):
creative.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, how do church leaders lead creative people?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
well, Well, there's a number of things.
I think one of the key thingsis balancing challenge and
stability.
You know, some leaders think weneed to challenge my creative
team.
I need to make them think ifthey don't design a great logo,
we'll go out of business.
Others think I should leavethem alone and not mess with
them and let them do their thing.
You know there's a real balancethere.
I think you want to give them achallenge.
(13:40):
You want to get them out on theedge, push them outside their
comfort zone.
However, if they're worried,you know that if they fail,
they'll lose their job.
They're not going to come upwith a very creative idea Right.
So they need that.
They need the stability ofknowing that, look, this, this
organization is going to be here.
We're here for you.
We believe in you.
We're going to work throughthis and, at the same time, push
them outside the comfort zone,give them that little edge.
(14:01):
But I know leaders that willyell at their creative team.
I know leaders that will, youknow, say everything's over.
If this is not going to be agood video, we're done.
That does not inspirecreativity.
So, that balance betweenstability and creativity is
incredibly important and alongthat line, I also think we need
to make the creative person saywe need to protect them from
(14:24):
excessive criticism.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Very often there's, as I'm sure you've seen, in a
lot of companies.
Everybody's a critic, butnobody's going to be that
creative person that comes upwith the idea, and so that's a
valuable person.
I think one of the reasons Iget hired as much as I do is I
can start with a blank page.
I can start with nothing andcome up with a great idea, and
(14:46):
that's a real skill and that'ssomething that you know is in
demand.
However, I've worked inministry organizations and
churches where you know six oreight people from the creative
or from the leadership team.
They're going to criticizeeverything I come up with.
Right right, because they can.
And so they don't understand howhard it is.
So, as a leader, it's your jobto protect your team, and I'll
(15:08):
tell you if you could protectyour creative team from it.
Doesn't mean they can't becriticized.
We want to kick around and havea healthy discussion about
ideas, but excessive criticismwe need to protect them from
that, and if you do that, yourcreative team will walk through
a fire for you.
It's amazing how they'llrespond if you really help them.
Keep the critics at bay longenough for them to come up with
(15:32):
something brilliant.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
How do you keep creative folksenergized If you're in the
church setting where you'redoing the same thing every week?
I guess it's less monotonous toan extent.
How do those folks get energyand continue to be creative in
that environment?
Speaker 1 (15:52):
One of the challenges I face is I want to find out
what lights up every creativeperson I work with.
So if I'm on a film crew, I maybe with 12 or 15 people and I
want to find out what.
What lights up every creativeperson I work with.
So if I'm on a film crew, I maybe with 12 or 15 people and I
want to know the people thatenjoy being pushed, and I'll
push them and I want to enjoythe people that don't want to be
pushed, and I'll I'll leavethem alone.
I want to know the people thatwould rather have time off,
because that that inspires them.
(16:14):
I want to know the people thatlike working late, because that
inspires them.
So part of this is kind ofknowing what that magic key is
that really sparks thecreativity in your team, and
everybody's different.
You know it's funny.
I don't think we put enoughthought into the time of day
we're most creative.
I'm.
You know we all live bycircadian rhythm.
You know we have ups and downsall day long, as you see.
(16:40):
You know You're having yourcoffee now, because you're
probably hitting a slump, andwhat I've discovered is I'm
insanely creative between six inthe morning and noon.
I mean, I can write like amadman, I can focus like a
madman, I can really do amazingwork in the morning, in the
afternoon and evening.
Forget it, there's no way, it'snot going to happen.
My wife, on the other hand,Kathleen.
She lights up at night, shebecomes super creative and wants
(17:01):
to work after dinner.
I don't understand that, andthere's a what's funny is
there's a small sliver of peoplethat are their creative best in
the afternoon.
I totally don't get that Right.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
So part of this is knowing when you're at your best
, even when some of us work atfull time jobs and we can't just
block that time Right.
But I remember when I startedmy career I learned this and I
was working full time with anorganization and I couldn't
block that time.
However, when I discovered thatI was at my best early, I would
come in in the morning at 6 am,two hours before anybody else
(17:34):
early.
I would come in in the morningat 6 am, two hours before
anybody else, and I wrote myfirst two books in those
two-hour blocks because Irealized I was more creative.
I could accomplish more in twohours at my best than I could at
six or eight hours the rest ofthe day.
The rest of the day, yeah.
So understanding the times ofday that you're best and trying
(17:54):
to focus as much as possible onthat.
And the other thing I don'twant to preach here, but the
other thing is knowing whereyou're at your best.
For me, a bank vault wouldprobably be the most creative
place I can imagine.
I cannot be distracted, I don'twant to.
I shut my windows, I shut mydrapes.
I don't want to have the TV on,the radio on, I can't have
(18:14):
music on.
I want total silence.
Other people there's one studythat indicates there's a certain
number of people that areinspired by the dull roar of
coffee shop conversation whichis probably why you see people
at Starbucks with their laptops.
So everybody find out.
I encourage people to find outwhere you're most creative and
try to focus your best time ofday in those places and you'll
(18:38):
see I mean, I'm not kiddingYou'll see a dramatic
breakthrough in the quality ofwork that you do.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine carving that time out is like
tricky.
Like I find, you know, likeyou're doing all the things.
You got meetings like just inmy own life, right, you got
meetings.
You're on Zoom, bouncing aroundbetween things.
So for me it's almost like youknow, like last night I take one
of my kids to basketballpractice and for that like hour
(19:04):
and a half like I can sit in mycar on my laptop and like crush,
like crank stuff out becausethere's like no, it's good, it's
your point.
Like there's no distractions.
There's also like there's nomeetings for whatever reason,
like my mind can like stop beingon on all the other stuff and
(19:25):
then like focus on gettingwhatever stuff I need actually
like deep work done, you know.
So finding those moments,sometimes for me it's just like
being out somewhere, likegetting away from the desk,
getting away from your normalenvironment.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Well you're.
You're right about distraction.
There's not one study that I'veever I've ever encountered that
indicates multitasking helps.
So the idea that we can watchTV, work on our report, have the
radio on or other stuff goingon, check email every once in a
while, is a total myth.
We can do that, but it lowersyour IQ a significant amount.
(19:59):
I mean, one study indicatesthat when you're multitasking
you lower your IQ to the levelas if you were smoking weed.
So if that's the kind of workyou want to do, great.
But if you're trying to exceland do amazing creative work,
you need to focus, focus, focus,focus yeah and you know that it
makes a big difference yeah,totally what.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
what have you seen, uh, in, you know, in your
journeys, uh around, like thechurch and creativity over the
years, like I'm just you know,like you've been doing you
referenced the TV thing you didfor Billy Graham 10 years ago.
You've been at this for a while.
Have you seen just creativitycontinue to get better inside
(20:43):
churches, or is it not good, orI don't know what's your take on
it?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
It's exponentially better.
It's amazing today, in fact.
Uh, you know, the, I, the.
I wonder sometimes that the weused to say uh, at the Grammy
awards we'd often hear peopleaccept a Grammy and say you know
, I got my start singing inchurch, right, and I'm expecting
any any year.
Here we're going to see someonewin an Oscar and say I got my
(21:07):
start running video at church.
I can name you a number ofA-list commercial directors that
are doing amazing work who gotstarted as church media guys.
So it's gone up.
I mean the church didn'tappreciate creativity when I
started.
I remember working for a clientone time that he actually had
cards printed that he put onevery computer in the building
(21:29):
that said just follow myinstructions.
I mean he didn't want creativethinking, he didn't want anybody
thinking on their own, he justyou do what I tell you to do and
shut up, and I thought you know.
I shook hands with him andwalked away.
I wasn't about to work withthat guy, but over the years
it's evolved in a wonderful wayand people today pastors get it.
(21:53):
They understand creativity.
Because here's the thing it'sreally not about the creativity,
it's about creating a spacewhere people will want to hear
your message.
I say a lot of times perceptionin this culture that we live in
, where I said you know peoplesee 10,000 media messages a day.
If they don't have a goodfeeling about you or your church
, they're never going to walk in.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
They're never going to come check it out.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So creativity is a way to help people have that
good feeling.
You know, everything they seeabout it can be positive and
inspirational and they'rethinking, well, maybe I could go
hear that, go check that churchout or go hear that pastor.
And I just look at creativityas a way to open doors for
people to hear the ultimatemessage.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right yeah, what about getting things online
nowadays, like with social mediaand shorts, specifically like
do you think much about thatstuff or have you done any work
in that category around justshort form video and we've done
hundreds and hundreds of shortform videos for all kinds of
situations fundraising,marketing, awareness.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
We did all of the video for the Museum of the
Bible in Washington DC, frombefore the groundbreaking all
the way through to the launch,and we photographed their
collection and we did hundredsof videos with them alone Just
short little videos to informdonors of what's going on, to
let the public see what'shappening, and they made a huge
(23:13):
impact out there.
And short videos one studyindicates that short videos are
the number one marketing tool inAmerica right now, and I'll sit
on a plane regularly next topeople that just have their
phone and they're just flippingthrough one short video Just
flipping through shorts rightFor hours, hours, yeah, yeah,
and so and I'm talking two tofour minute videos, for the most
part, in fact.
I'll tell you somethinginteresting, frank we've done a
lot of fundraising videos forevents like a big church
(23:36):
anniversary or something, or acelebration kind of a thing, and
we used to do a 10, 15 minutevideo that you know told the
story of the church.
That would inspire everybody.
Now we're doing maybe four orfive two to four minute videos
instead and playing thosethroughout the evening.
We've discovered, rather thanforce people to sit through a 10
minute video once, they reallyenjoy seeing a two to four
(24:00):
minute video placedstrategically throughout the
evening.
So short videos have reallyimpacted the way we do a lot of
things out there and it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
My, my kids are like you know.
They're middle schoolers.
Yep, they have their iPads atthe house.
We're not going phones yet.
I don't know when I'll givethem phones, but they got the
iPads in the house and likeYouTube shorts.
They don't.
They don't really watch likereg, they don't really watch
even regular YouTube videos.
It's like they just watch theshorts.
(24:30):
It's crazy.
My mother-in-law comes over ohyeah, instagram and YouTube
shorts.
She's telling me about somerecipe or some health thing or
whatever that she found onYouTube shorts.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Well, I'll tell you this.
One study indicates the 55 andolder crowd watches the same
number of short videos as the20-something crowd.
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I 100% believe it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
It's a tool for everybody in your church to use
to promote what you're doing.
By the way, you mentioned yourphone with your kids.
It's interesting to me that thefounders of the tech world
Silicon Valley, the Microsofts,the Apples, the founders of that
never let their kids havephones for a long time and they
obviously know something that alot of us don't, and it's sad.
My 10-year-old granddaughtershe'll have friends come over
(25:19):
and they all have phones andthere's no way she's getting one
, not for a long time.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And it's just really sad.
I tell my kids all the timeit's a a different, it's a
different age.
Every time they ask me, I'mlike oh it's going to be 26 or
45.
Oh, you're going to be 32.
Like I'm always changing, it'ssomething way out.
You know, that's true.
That's true, I don't know, dude, it's not going to be for a
while.
(25:51):
No man, it's a different world.
Yeah, it totally is.
You're, uh, this is like it'ssuper fun.
We could sit, I could just sitthere and pick your brain.
But you're coming to ourconference.
It's our first ever kind of bigusers conference.
Uh, in dallas in october you'reteaching a workshop, so I, I
mean, it's still a ways out, thedeadline is there.
But you're, you know, maybe youhaven't started working, but
any preview on what you might besharing?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No, I'm actually going to talk about the secrets
of leading creative people.
I think it's so important thatpeople understand this, and so
what better place than a churchyou know the modern church
leaders leader conference totalk about leading creative
people, and so it'll be the I'mthe only one I of my kind there
that's going to be doing it, andso I'm going to have a really
interesting talk and and I thinkand here's the thing people
(26:32):
listening to this or watchingyou may be a graphic designer or
a video person or whatever, butone day you're going to step up
and be leading other graphicdesigners.
And so you need to understandnow how to lead, inspire and
motivate creative people.
And certainly if you're achurch pastor, if you're a
leader at a church, youdefinitely need to understand
(26:54):
how to lead and inspire creativepeople, because you know what
you preach to the people in theroom on Sunday, but your
creative team is the key togetting that message to
potentially millions of peoplebeyond the walls of your church.
So the more you can inspire andmotivate them, the better off
you'll be.
So I would encourage peoplecheck out the workshop, because
it's gonna have some reallyamazing techniques, secrets and
(27:16):
ideas that will help take yourleadership to a whole nother
level.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I love that.
Yeah, no, you are one of one atthe conference.
It's gonna be fun.
There's a lot, I mean, I think,going back to what you're
saying earlier, like creativityis uh, I mean I think I've seen
it too like the creatives in thechurch, uh, though you know
it's not the sort of pastoralroles, but like I think over the
last 10 years maybe morecreativity in the church has
(27:42):
exploded and uh, but stillunderserved, you know, to your
point around like there's tonson leadership, not a lot on
leading creatives or beingcreative in a church and whatnot
.
So I'm excited about thesession, um, it'll be fun what
about between now and then?
where can folks go to like learna little bit about you or any
resources you recommend forcreatives in the church?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
my.
My hub is philcookcom.
I'm cook with an e, so easyh-H-I-L-C-O-O-K-Ecom Everything.
My blog is there and I'mwriting on these issues all the
time, so I'd encourage people togo there.
Our company site iscookmediagroupcom, but yeah, I'd
encourage people to go checkout my book.
You know Ideas on a Deadline,how to Be Creative when the
(28:29):
clock is ticking, because really, if you you know sundays come
with relentless regularity, ohyeah, constantly.
They show up every week and wegot to be prepared for that with
new ideas and new brilliantthoughts and projects, and so if
there's anything creativepeople need, it's an injection
of how to deal with deadlinesmore effectively, and so I'd
encourage people to check thatout.
And then the book has got ahuge bibliography and a resource
of other creative stuff.
(28:50):
That would be remarkable forpeople Can they get that at,
like philcookcom.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Oh, you can get it at philcookcom.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
You can get it on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Barnes Noble any place you go.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Hey, one quick final question.
Sure, and it may be off on atangent In the creative space,
especially when we're talkingabout content and getting it out
into the world.
Are there any tools that you'veseen cropping up for creatives
to help do this better?
Anything in the AI space thatyou've been messing around with?
(29:20):
How's the tech side of thingshit your world?
Speaker 1 (29:24):
You know it's funny.
Ai is an interesting thing.
I really strongly encouragecreative people to explore AI.
But be cautious.
I did an interesting thing theother day.
I went on AI and I said whatare the top 10 biggest
criticisms of Phil Cook?
And so it thought for a secondand spit them out.
(29:46):
And they were amazing.
They were totally believable,you know, totally believable and
remarkable actually.
And so then I said, okay, whatkind of people are making these
criticisms?
And they said you know rivalproducers, critics, you know
some ministry leaders that don'tlike what you do.
It was very legit.
But then I asked it okay, tellme the names of the people that
(30:08):
have said these things.
And it said it came back withwell, nobody's actually said
those things, but I'm programmedto give you an answer to every
question you ask.
And so it essentially made itup, and so we have to be really
careful.
So AI will just make stuff upthat it doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
That is crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I just thought that was fascinating, yeah, and so I
don't want to let that list getout, because it was a pretty
legit list of problems, but it'sa great example of how, when we
explore new technology, we justneed to be sensitive and
careful.
You know and be aware of itsstrengths, its weaknesses, its
limitations, and use itaccordingly.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, amen to that, no doubt.
Well, phil, thanks for comingon the show.
I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Oh, it's been fun.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Thank you so much, absolutely Looking forward to
seeing you at the conference.
In the meantime, guys, go checkout the book.
Go to philcookcom, like theeasiest place to go find the
book and just learn more aboutPhil uh and the cook media group
man.
You guys are up to good work.
I love it.
Um well, guys, thanks forjoining, excited for, uh, our
conference coming up.
(31:15):
We'll see you guys next week onanother episode of modern
church leader and uh, phil,thanks again and we'll see you
guys next week.
Bye.
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