July 12, 2024 • 47 mins
How do you navigate life when the path abruptly changes? Craig's story is a compelling testament to resilience, showcasing how life's unexpected turns can lead to fulfilling new chapters and how he embraced the power of simple acts of love and kindness. Don't miss this inspiring conversation that will encourage you to see God’s hand in both the grand and modest moments of life.
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Learn more about Craig at https://www.craigallencooper.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Let's do this.
Hey guys, frank here withanother episode of Modern Church
Leader, excited to talk toCraig Cooper today.
Craig, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So happy to be here.
Thanks so much for having me,Frank.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Like you got this really cool story.
You've written a few books.
We're going to talk about oneof those stories, but tell us a
little bit about you, like howdid you get into ministry and
what are you up to these daysand all that We'd love to hear
kind of the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, Thanks for asking.
Yeah, so I live in the greaterNashville area just south of
Franklin, Tennessee.
My wife and I actually arecelebrating our 25th wedding
anniversary which is super cool.
And uh we do anything.
Yeah, A little vacation nextweek, just the two of us and
(00:55):
super stoked to to do that andturn everything off and just
reflect and enjoy.
Um, it's going to be.
It's going to be great, yeah.
But we, um, yeah, we live inthe greater Nashville area.
We've got four kids.
I'm in kind of in the launchphase with two of them One.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wait, what's the launch phase?
Graduating high school orcollege?
Which one?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, it's both.
So my oldest daughter, karis,just graduated from the
university of Alabama, which ishilarious because I went to ut
and knoxville.
So I always say go vols, butthey alabama actually gave her a
big scholarship and she wentinto their honors program so we
bought the hat and everythingand I said roll tide, um, except
(01:36):
when alabama's playingtennessee, yeah, and then my
blood runs deep orange.
So that's awesome, but, yeah,super grateful.
So she just graduated fromcollege, so she's going to do a
master's degree and then kind ofgo into life in the real world
and all of that.
So she's doing an internshipover the summer.
(01:59):
And my son just graduated fromhigh school and is heading up to
NYU for Clive Davis Institute.
He got accepted into Clive andthey only accept 60 students
into that program for musicproduction worldwide.
So we were blown away.
(02:20):
I mean we celebrated like crazy.
Lara caught it on video andthat video went viral.
It went all over the world.
It was really cool, uh, when hegot his acceptance.
So I say we're in the launchphase on that end because really
two of our kids aren't living,uh, at home right in in the fall
.
And then, um, I've got, uh, myother daughter is in high school
(02:46):
and then my youngest daughteris in middle school.
So we're right in the thick ofparenting.
And, yeah, I'm Tennessee bornand raised.
I, above my computer, here I'vegot quotes from Drew Holcomb,
the neighbors of the song thatsays I was born here and I was
raised here and I'll make mygrave here.
It's home, tennessee, um.
(03:08):
I love it, but we we lived in.
I lived in chattanooga, grew upattending and then went to
school in knoxville, ut.
That's where I met jesus.
That's where, honestly, thethree biggest introductions in
my life happened.
Through a campus ministry therecalled volunteers for christ,
vfc.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I was introduced to jesus, uh, introduced to my wife.
Life happened through a campusministry there called Volunteers
for Christ, vfc.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I was introduced to Jesus, introduced to my wife and
(03:30):
introduced into kind of thewhole trajectory for ministry
and so massive impact on my life.
And you know that was back in1995.
So I'm dating myself here, butI'm getting older.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Hey, I can relate, man.
I met my wife before, but I'min San Diego.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I love San Diego so much, come visit.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Man, I love San Diego .
We'll either do some golfing orwe'll go to the beach One of
the two.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You don't want to golf with me?
You're going to be hearing four, a lot Four.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Look out the ball is headed to your head.
Most of golf is just having agood time, so I feel like we'd
have a good time.
I can do that.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Hey, top three favorite sunsets in my life were
in San Diego.
I took my wife to Coronado andwe watched the sunset there and
everybody had their phones outtaking pictures and stuff.
So I love San Diego.
It's super cool and I'll takeyou up on that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You just text me when you're coming out.
But yeah, I became a Christianin college.
My wife and I had met, but wekind of reestablished the
relationship as Christians andeventually got married.
And my first job I was a youthpastor for five years.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I feel it.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I have a strong.
My campus ministry, collegeministry days were some of the
best of my life.
Like it was an absolute blast.
Met some of my best friends tothis day.
Like for Memorial Day.
Like four families get togetherevery year.
We're all from that campusministry.
We go out to the lake and hang.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, it's a good time.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I'm saying, yeah, it is.
It's a good time of life,campus ministry, we go out to
the lake and hang so, um, yeah,it's a good time you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Uh, it's a good time of life.
It's you and I'd love to seewhat's happening in the college
campuses now.
I've, you know, with hundredsof kids like professing faith in
Christ and getting baptized indifferent moments where, like,
the passion band has gone outand you, like the passion band
has gone out, and you know, I'veseen jp and jenny allen and
different people um maddie prue,uh post about what's happening
(05:51):
and it felt like that in 1995.
It felt like that for me at uh,at ut.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I was in the number one party dorm in the us at the
time in the whole us because sandiego state I'm sure is it
ranking up there Like it was awhole U S and it was.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It was called a Hess hall and they called it the zoo,
and I mean there was no airconditioning so everybody left
their doors open and theirwindows open.
So it was like so communal,it's like something back in the
seventies.
But then tons of people were on, you know, on drugs and on all
kinds.
You know there was, but whathappened is God just like
(06:30):
reached in and startedtransforming people's lives and
we had Bible studies where youknow the rooms just like your
dorm room just packed out 30people Right, and it's only
supposed to fit two.
You know it was really cool,what was happening.
I feel like that's happeningnow.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It's really cool yeah , yeah, it's, uh, it is pretty
cool.
Um, so that's when you became achristian and then you did you
go into full-time ministry rightfrom there, or what's the,
what's the story post campusyeah, so well.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
The night I came to faith in Christ it was October
26th of 95.
A guy came up to me who led thecampus ministry and he said hey
, champ, what's God doing inyour heart?
And I said I just want to givemy life to Jesus and do what
that man is doing.
And I pointed to the guy whohad just preached the gospel and
(07:22):
led me to the Lord.
Just preach the gospel and ledme to the Lord, so that what
ended up happening from there isthe man who led the campus
ministry said hey, let's gettogether every Tuesday, so with
myself and my twin brother Ihave an identical twin brother
every Tuesday 2.30, presidentialcourt.
(07:44):
He sat down and he just reallydiscipled us like, walked us
through the gospel, walked usthrough different books, walked
us through, you know, I rememberhim being in our dorm one time
to come, you know, get us.
And he kept his eyes down andhe looked real a little
uncomfortable.
And then I kind of looked backlike what's he uncomfortable
with?
We had this like big poster ofof a swimsuit model and they're
(08:05):
like is that bad?
And he's.
And he's like well, you know,bro, you want to.
You know, guard your heart andwe, like, immediately ripped it
down and he just walked methrough everything.
I ended up naming my son afterhim Joshua Landis, wow, cooper,
after Bruce Landis a massiveimpact on my life as a mentor.
(08:26):
But yeah, he he's.
You know.
They started asking do you feelcalled to ministry?
And I said yes and so graduatedin three years, went to a
school of ministry, a pastor'scollege, came back, got married
and married on June 5th and thenstarted into ministry June 15th
(08:48):
and, uh, like you, I mean I didyouth ministry, I did campus
ministry, but we were in a smallchurch at the time, it was
about maybe 200, 250 and it grewto about a thousand.
And what happened was I wasdoing youth ministry, campus
ministry, worship ministry,small group ministry and I
(09:11):
packed my days.
I just had something everynight and then would try to
connect with my wife on Sundaynight and I was exhausted.
It wasn't sustainable and itwasn't working.
And I started praying Lord, ifI'm supposed to do something
different, let me know.
And, um, I thought I hit amajor burnout and the team,
(09:33):
actually they, you know, theykind of discerned all of that
and they're like, hey, we'regoing to let you, we're gonna
let you go and go find somebusiness experience.
Go and business experience go.
Just you know.
And I was devastated, like, um,they announced the church.
You know, craig hasn't doneanything wrong that would
disqualify him from ministry,but he just needs to do
something different and based onthe needs of the church and
(09:56):
where he is at the time, there'sno longer a match.
And I was like it crushed me,right, but, and it I felt like a
, it wasn't a loss of a job, itfelt like, you know, loss of a
calling, like what's, what am I,you know.
But god used it, um, that inthe midst of all the brokenness,
(10:16):
he really drew me to himselfand I would take long, long
walks on sunday afternoons afterchurch and just pour my heart
out to the Lord.
And about five years later, youknow the church, we stayed in
the same church, which was, youknow, it was kind of humbling
Right Right.
About five years later, youknow, the lead pastor said hey,
(10:39):
I feel like I wish I had neverlet you go and we all feel like
you're called.
Would you consider coming backon?
And I had developed asuccessful career at that point
in recruiting and staffing andso I took a 50% pay cut, went
back with the church and theintent was to help plant a
church Right.
And so did that for five years.
(10:59):
And then we relocated to theNashville area to help plant
Redeeming Grace.
Then we relocated to theNashville area to help plant
Redeeming Grace.
Yeah, and that's where lifejust changed in a big way too,
when we came to Nashville.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, it was awesome.
Yeah, I mean I'm sure that wasa crazy ride.
I mean that was a 10, 20-yearencapsulation of going into
ministry, however long that went.
Then you get you know they'relike, hey, this isn't working
and you spend X number of yearsbeing a recruit my wife was a
recruiter, by the way, so I, Ikind of what did she recruit for
(11:35):
?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What type of specialties?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
She bounced around.
She spent most of her time at acompany called SAIC which I
think yeah is has a differentname now, or like leidos or some
like yeah, but she was aninside recruiter for them for a
long time and, uh, so you know,just defense contracts, all
kinds of positions in that worldwas kind of her her thing,
(12:00):
that's awesome so yeah, but Iremember when she started
recruiting and she was like thenewbie and it's kind of a sales
job right yeah so recruitingyour sales right, it's, it's
like that, it's in that lane anduh man, it was hard when she
started.
Yeah, she was you know, entrylevel, mostly making commission
(12:21):
with a draw, like it was.
You know, you know it was atough go, but she, uh, she
figured it out along the way andended up doing pretty well.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So yeah, wow, well, tell her.
I said what's up?
Uh, I, I know that whole world.
I did pharmaceutical, medicaland biotech recruiting and then
what's crazy is when we went toplant the church, I got offered
I was on a like a personalretreat, you know to come over
here and pray through the areaand everything and I got
(12:47):
connected with a group.
That uh guy was a believer, theman who owned the firm, and he
was looking for a believer withstaffing experience, right, and
I'm like I.
I got connected with him and Iwas like I've been out of the
game for five years.
He said, craig, you would beperfect for our group.
(13:10):
He made me an offer on the spot.
If I had not had that time inthe wilderness, out of ministry
and doing staffing, I wouldn'thave been able to do what we do.
I took the job as a healthcareIT recruiter and he brought me
in as a senior recruiter becauseof my you know five years of
(13:32):
recruiting experience.
Yeah, and, and you know, havingme help lead the younger guys
and the team and everything, and, and he prayed for the church,
plant all this stuff.
And so I was able to go byvocational and not take any
money from the church but beable to give back to the church,
plant all this stuff.
And so I was able to go buy avocational and not take any
money from the church, uh, butbe able to give back to the
church while we helped establishand plant the church Right, and
I ran with them for six yearsand it was.
(13:53):
You know, god, he never wastespain.
He never wastes, uh, any ofthat.
He uses it all.
But I couldn't see it until ithappened and it happened in a
flash, right, um, and I'm I'm so, so, so grateful yeah, and, but
it didn't seem like a flashwhen you were going through it.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It only seems like a flash now that you look back on
it.
Right, you're like, wow, thatwas a short yeah, but I bet you,
those long walks on sunday, uhwere extremely long walks and
you probably did a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
They were.
Yeah, my shirt was wet, youknow, with tears.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean for real, not just the sweat, but the.
I mean I, I really I love Psalm62, eight.
It's one of my favorite verses.
Trust in him at all times.
Oh, peoples, pour out yourheart before him, for God, as a
refuge for us.
And I felt like God just wasinviting me on those walks to,
um, like, pour it all out Rightand, and which meant I could be
(14:53):
honest with him about how thathurt and the bewilderment and
not understanding what was goingon in my life at the time.
And uh, you know, I think ofit's like if you have a
neglected milk carton.
You know, we had that happen inthe fridge one time at another
place in the, in the garage.
(15:15):
You know, and you, you know,you, you look at that and it's
curdled milk, it's nasty.
Um, you you open that thing up,pour it out in the sink and
you're about to upchuck, itstinks and all of that.
But I felt like God was sayinghey, you can pour out what's in
your heart, even if it's asnasty as curdled milk.
(15:39):
And that's part of trusting inHim is pouring your heart out
before Him.
And so I'm really grateful thatI got let go.
Yeah, because I was running ata clip that didn't sustain
communion with God in the waythat we all need.
And I needed those Sundayafternoon walks and the quiet
(16:05):
moments and yeah it's, and itprobably saved my marriage.
Honestly, the I mean we're at25 years now and, like the first
two years were hard because Iwas doing it was it was not
sustainable.
And so we started slowing thepace.
Andvor in the grace and it wasawesome.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
So good, god is good.
That's one of the things whenI've had moments, you know, not
the same, but you know the toughtimes and you're just like
remembering that God is good andhe knows how to give good gifts
.
And it's good Like.
You know, like really trying tolike remind yourself of that
(16:50):
kind of stuff during the hardtimes and then being able to
look back and go man, that wastough but like, look look at the
the fruit of staying close toGod and doing the right things
through all those moments.
And you know it sounds like youlook back and you got lots of
fond memories.
I do, and you know it soundslike you look back and you got
lots of fond memories, I do.
I mean, so we're going to getinto kind of your story.
Like you wrote the book GladYou're here, yeah, and that's
(17:12):
based on a pretty cool story.
Yeah, you know, who knows thejourney you just described?
Maybe, if you do somethingdifferent, like that story
doesn't exist.
So, yeah, right, like.
But so tell us, you wrote abook.
It's called Glad You're here,two Unlikely Friends Breaking
Bread and Fences.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And that's the subtitle.
We say Unlikely Friends.
I co-wrote it with my bestfriend, Walker Hayes, and he's a
singer, songwriter, countrymusic star and for people who
you may know, the song FancyLike yeah, we fancy like
applebee's on a date.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm telling you.
We have 20 middle school kidscoming over today and I'm gonna
play that song to start theparty.
That's crushing pool party for,for all the middle school
graduates.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that's how we're gonna start it off, you're gonna
, you're gonna have to videothat.
I want to see that if anybodybreaks out into the fancy like
dance.
It went crazy viral that songdid and launched his career into
another stratosphere.
But when we met it was over 10years ago and we say unlikely
(18:35):
friends because we really were.
You would have never put thetwo of us together on paper to
become best friends, but God didthat and so we.
He was an atheist.
He wanted nothing to do withthe church.
He had some church hurt fromthe past and he was really
(18:55):
struggling with alcoholism.
I didn't even know how deep itwas at the time but you know he
would say, hey, he was a high,high functioning alcoholic Um
and he was struggling with akind of a failing music career.
He had.
He moved here, like many peopledo um to Nashville.
(19:16):
He came from Mobile chasing adream and um ended up playing at
the bluebird and all this kindof stuff, found out that they
sing their own songs at thebluebirds.
Who went out and he's like,okay, I gotta write original
songs and he started doing that.
He got signed pretty early on,you know, with capital records
and and but he had kind of thesame moment that I had, where he
(19:39):
got cut, he got let go, he losthis record label, and so very
early on, as we were hanging outtogether and the story is, our
wives met first.
So his wife is Lainey, my wifeis Laura.
(19:59):
They met at a neighborhoodfunction, um, and then where's
the connection?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
proximity wise, are you guys?
You live in the sameneighborhood and that's.
They ran into each other atsome function.
You're saying that was kind oflike just the random connection.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
We were.
We were all living in WestFranklin and they were in
another neighborhood.
That was, you know, maybe fiveminutes from where we were
living at the time, but they hada mutual connection and, uh,
someone had we've we've allmoved different times, you know,
at this point.
But so essentially, uh, lauraand Laney find themselves
(20:35):
together at a, at a someone'shouse, and that house, um,
actually was kind of in ourbackyard, you know, at the time,
uh, you could see it from wherewe were.
And so then they reconnected.
They saw each other at abasketball.
So our kids, my son and and, uh, their boys, were playing
(20:55):
basketball and you know, laurarecognizes laney and hey, you
know, and they reconnected, andso lara invited them to church,
like, hey, would y'all want tocome to church?
Um, and laney said yes, and youknow, walker, he wasn't too
happy with with lara at the timenow.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Our lives are way more spiritual than us anyway, I
get it a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, our church was meeting on Saturday nights.
It was a brand new church plant.
We, we, we were trying to justget any building that would
allow us to meet, and so, youknow, saturday night's a good
time and we were in the boonies,real South of Franklin, right
next to Thompson station.
And you know this is the winterwe met, so the sun sets in
(21:43):
Nashville at like four, 30 inthe afternoon and you know,
there so it's nighttime whenyou're driving to church and all
this kind of stuff, a lot ofhurdles, a lot of hurdles, um,
to do this.
But they said they were goingto come and they and they, they
came.
You know a lot of people wouldsay, yeah, I'll come.
Right, 30 people in this churchplan at the time.
(22:03):
So they, they show up, walker,you know, comes in and he says
the first words out of my mouthwere um, we're glad you're here.
But I said it like dude, gladyou're here, like he felt it,
you know, and I was stoked thatthey came.
(22:24):
You know, we did the meetingand everything, and then
afterwards, um, it's like, havey'all had dinner?
And they hadn't.
So we all went to one of theirfavorite places and that ended
up becoming a rhythm like theywould come saturday night we
would do dinner after church andthen we would be over at each
other's houses, like on aTuesday, wednesday night, back
and forth, and then we would goto all the kids' games together.
(22:47):
So Walker and I would do likethe scoreboard for my kids'
baseball games and all thisstuff, and so we developed this
huge fast friendship.
And so we developed this hugefast friendship and I was a
struggling church plantingpastor, discouraged and you know
, and he was working through hisstuff, and we kind of bonded
(23:10):
over our brokenness, includinglike, hey, you know, he's like I
lost the record, I'm like, dude, I got let go from a church you
know like, and he related to meand I related to him and I felt
like I could tell him anythingand everything and um, he, god,
(23:31):
just um, really blessed both ofour families through that
friendship.
So, laura and Laney, supertight best of friends, walker
and I, super tight best friends,and our kids were the same, uh,
but again, he, he didn't umwant to have anything to do with
(23:51):
the name Jesus, um, when at onepoint they lost a sponsored
vehicle that they had sponsoredthrough kind of songwriting
stuff that he had.
And they came in and pounded itand everything, cause it was
basically uh, it was part of theuh, a sponsorship, and they
took it back.
(24:11):
Um, so they didn't have avehicle.
So well, I started praying likeLord, please help us to be able
to give them our van, becausethey need it.
They had borrowed it before andthey have a bigger family than
we do.
And so I closed the deal instaffing and we bought a little
(24:32):
used vehicle and we cleaned upour van and we secretly took it
to the ball field one nightafter his son Baylor's game, and
I had the keys, the title andthe pen in my hand and I, and
then, you know, he came up.
He's like what do y'all do?
Hey, bro, what are y'all doinghere?
Because we had missed the game.
And then he's doing them.
He's looking at like why do youhave two cars?
(24:52):
What do you do?
And I had, bro, all you got todo is sign and this is yours.
And he stepped back like no, no, no way, no, I'm not taking the
car.
And I was like I've alreadysigned my part, like all you got
to do is sign.
And we kind of had a little bitof an argument because I didn't
(25:14):
want to take no for an answerbut he didn't want to like
accept it.
And finally Lila, his daughter,his oldest, said Dad, just take
the car.
And so he, he took it.
And it was a little awkwardwhen they drove away because I
was telling Laura like I hope Ididn't offend him.
(25:37):
You know, I hope this didn'tdamage our relationship.
Right, I was concerned.
And man, I hope this didn'tdamage our relationship.
Right, I was concerned.
And a man boy, it did notdamage our relationship.
What it?
It really broke down some wallskind of in his heart and
everything and some barriers.
And he's, he reallycontemplated a lot about that
(25:58):
and he would always we'd be atthe ball field and be like, dude
, you gave me your car and hedidn't know how to thank me.
So he wrote a song and the songwas called Craig and the song is
really all about our friendshipand my relationship with Jesus,
saying from the perspective ofa man who didn't believe in him,
(26:22):
who didn't believe in Jesus,and it was written as an atheist
.
And when I first got it I justwept and realized, oh, I'm right
where God wants me, because Iwas looking around going.
I'm really discouraged, I'm notseeing anything major happening
in my life, in ministry, and wecame here to help plant a
(26:44):
church and see lives changed andwhat's going on.
And you know, lord, am I in theright place?
And um, I had sent an email tothe pastoral team of redeeming
grace and I'm not sure there'sfruit here.
I'm not sure I'm supposed tokeep going.
Anyway, he dropped that song inmy lap and it really overpowered
me.
It felt like God himselfsinging over me, like the
(27:08):
Zephaniah 317.
The Lord, your God, is in yourmidst.
A mighty one he'll save.
He'll rejoice over you withgladness, he'll quiet you with
his love.
He'll exalt over you withsinging, loud singing, and and
um, that song was not reallymeant to go to anybody else, but
his team heard it and theyloved it and they put it on an
(27:28):
album.
And uh, then walker and laneylost a child.
We walked through that as theylost oakley, their seventh,
seventh in childbirth, almostlost Laney and slowly over time
Walker's looking about whatreally matters in life and he
(27:50):
would have deep conversationswith me and things.
And the guy was doing a lotwhen he was out on tour, read a
book called the Secrets of anUnlikely Convert and he really
resonated with it and reallyrelated to it.
God was doing a lot when he wasout on tour, read a book called
the secrets of an unlikelyconvert and he really resonated
with it and really related to it.
And then when he got back, hesat down with us at a sushi
restaurant and said I gotsomething to share with you and
I thought he was going to talkabout, like you know, tour songs
(28:13):
.
Yeah.
And I said what's up, man?
And I've got like chopsticks inmy hand, sushi, like coming out
to my mouth when he says Ibelieve.
And I was like you believe,what do you believe?
And he said all of it and I putmy chopsticks down and I was
(28:37):
like well, are you saying youbelieve Jesus is the son of God
and that you want to live yourlife for his glory?
And he said that's exactly whatI'm saying, bro.
And I was like I just stood upand gave him the hugest bear hug
that I've ever given anybody,like squeeze life out of both of
us and really into both of us.
(28:58):
And I had to excuse myself.
I went into the back restroomand fell on my knees and just
worshiped God.
And now Walker sings that song.
They recut it with Mercy Melike Bart Millard of I Can Only
Imagine.
And now he sings it in acelebratory way in his concerts
(29:21):
while he shares his testimony,whereas before he's saying it in
a real contemplative way, likeI don't know about all this, you
know.
But yeah, that's the story ofglad you're here.
It's been unbelievable to see.
Only God could do it.
In fact, we've got tattooed onour wrists Isaiah 40 to eight.
I am the Lord, that is my name,my glory I give to no other.
(29:48):
Uh, so that anytime I hear thestory, or he shares the story, I
think every grain of glory,every ounce of praise belongs
exclusively to Jesus.
So mine's on my left wrist andhis is on his, his right wrist,
yeah, that's it, man.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I mean, I don't even really have anything to ask,
like that's just awesome, likeonly god, you know it's
territory that that story, Imean it's.
It's like amplified in the senseof, like it's walker hayes and
you know, like he he's a countrystar and all that.
But like, okay, strip that partout for a sec and like, just
(30:21):
how cool, like you guys loved upon this family and you cared
about him and you built afriendship and they loved up on
us and like, yeah, yeah, likeyou, it wasn't.
Like Sometimes, as Christians,we can get up.
It's all about helping peopleknow Christ.
That's the thing You're goingafter.
(30:43):
Helping people.
That's the main goal.
People aren't open to it.
You move on to the next people.
That can be a thing I don'tthink maliciously or with you
know bad intent or anything likethat, but you end up doing that
kind of thing.
But like you just built thisgreat friendship with a family
(31:05):
and, and you know it, it tookyears.
I don't know how many yearsthat story went over, but it
sounds like a number of years.
Um, and your kids are bestfriends and you know, after x
number of years, and your kidsare best friends and you know,
after X number of years, youknow God is working the whole
time and somebody gets to knowhim.
Like I just think that's.
That's like what it's all about.
It's the best story on theplanet.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, man, yeah.
Well, thanks for letting meshare it, cause it always builds
my faith.
You know, you get.
You get into just livingregular life and we can forget I
can forget just God'sextraordinary work and ordinary
daily life.
I've got hanging over my windowframe here, a verse from 2
(31:52):
Timothy 2.
It just says remember Jesus,remember Jesus, I think my kids
can memorize that one.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
They like to say Jesus wept, because it's an easy
one to memorize, you know, somaybe remember Jesus.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, it's remember Jesus Christ, you know, risen
from the dead.
But, man, we can even get intoliving the Christian life in a
way that you forget the Christfor whom you're living.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's just so.
I find that so.
Anytime someone shares theirtestimony, they share their
story, they share what God hasdone in their lives.
It just reinforces what we allneed to remember, um, which is
remember jesus.
All right, so I appreciate theopportunity to reshare what how
(32:45):
did he deliver the song to you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
yeah, like what.
What was that?
You know, it wasn't supposed togo to anybody, but you did.
He just text you like no, it'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah no, that actually laney sent it to lara
because walk walker was like.
I mean, I've never written asong for a dude before this is a
little different.
You know, and I don't even knowhow he's going to respond to
this and right, what he didn'tknow is it's his version of
giving you a car.
(33:16):
Yeah, well, he.
And he that's what's so funny.
Yeah, he just always, he alwayswould say stuff like um dude,
I'm going to do something foryou, you know, and and uh.
But he was trying tocommunicate gratitude, right,
right, um, but the.
But he was trying tocommunicate gratitude, right,
(33:36):
but the way it was delivered.
Actually, I had just gotten backfrom a ministry retreat and I
was deeply discouraged comingback from that retreat and I had
taken a walk in downtownFranklin, down Main Street, up
11th Avenue and back on FairStreet and I had just really had
(33:56):
one of those Sunday walks.
It wasn't a Sunday, it was aMonday, but one of those walks
where I just poured my heart outto the Lord and I said Lord,
you know that I try to encourageother people.
You know that I just need youto please encourage me right now
.
Right, is anything I'm doingmaking a difference in anybody's
(34:18):
life?
Please help me see that youhave me where you want me,
because we were about five yearsinto the church plan at the
time and I was like I'm not suremy contributions are doing
anything here.
And that night I took Laura on adate.
We were at the Chipotle.
(34:40):
We came into our car and I'mtelling her how discouraged I
was, telling her the way I waspraying, and her phone buzzed
and it was from Lainey.
And I remember being a littlebit agitated that she was
looking at her phone while I wastrying to pour out my heart and
(35:00):
I'm like babe, who's that?
And she said it's Laney.
And I was like can you tellLane that you know we're out on
a date?
And she's like well, it's gotan MP3 on it.
It says your name, it saysCraig.
I think we should play the memo, the note, and I was, I kind of
resisted that and she persisted.
(35:21):
And that's when, through thespeakers, I first heard I met
craig at a church calledredeeming grace.
It's like he understood my Idon't want to be here face.
I fell out of place, I smelledlike beer.
But he just shook my hand, saidI'm glad you're here.
And then it goes through.
And just like I was overcomewith emotion I was, I just wept
(35:42):
and and I couldn't respond.
So I just said to lara, youknow, probably an hour later, I
was like can you just say I'mspeechless?
And she just said Craig'sspeechless and yeah, but I mean
he's played that at PAX Stadium,houston, 70,000 people and
(36:08):
he'll share his story.
Yeah, and I mean that's why Ihave this on my wrist, because
I'm like man, only God can dothat Unbelievable.
I couldn't dream of it and Goddid it.
That's how he delivered it.
He delivered it through hiswife and I'm so grateful.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That's cool.
One of the kindest things I'veever received.
It's the power of just lovingpeople right.
Then God worked through it allLike you were doing what you do,
like to love people and and belike Jesus.
And then God does somethingpretty crazy Like and he's and
(36:48):
and uh, you know, some dude iswriting songs about you.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And he loved on me and man, yeah, I'm, I, just, I
just I'm so thankful for thatexpression of kindness, yeah,
because I'm a guy who kind ofcan beat myself up, you know.
Yeah, so to hear that and islike, whoa, thank you Lord.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Big deal.
Well, I guess we could sit.
It's such a cool story.
I could sit and keep asking youquestions about it.
But like you're also coming tospeak at our conference in
October, Woo Cannot wait.
Like you're.
You know the random connectionis you happen to run into
Tithely somewhere and you'vebeen using Tithely at your
(37:32):
church or maybe in your likesomewhere.
You had a connection right.
And so Justin, our marketingguy, you know, knew of you and
somehow you know made connectionand here we are.
But you're going to come andspeak at the conference, but
hospitality on the you know thetopic of hospitality or
something around hospitality andI can't help but think like
(37:55):
that whole story kind of isabout showing hospitality to
people.
Right, like glad you're herewhen he shows up to church and
take it from there, kind ofthing.
So yeah, tell us more.
Like you know, it's obviouslymonths out, you're working on
things, but why hospitality?
Why is that something thatyou're excited to talk about?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, I love the idea of just
transformational hospitality andbuilding deep relationships.
In an isolated and lonely world, I feel like we are more.
Our world is more connectedthan ever before.
(38:34):
But there's a world ofdifference between table
connection and tablet connection.
And we just have a ton oftablet connection.
You know it's, it's the iPhone,the iPad, the computer, the.
You know social media,instagram, facebook, twitter,
(38:55):
not X, sorry about that.
Uh, and Facebook, twitter, notX, sorry about that.
And you know TikTok, you nameit.
I mean, we are more connectedthan ever before, but more we're
lonelier than we've ever been,and so table connection is is
transformational hospitality.
(39:17):
It's eye to eye, heart to heart, soul to soul, person to person
, around a table of, or how manyfollowers you have or your
influence, anything like that,but just because you're
(39:50):
breathing and you're created inthe image of God, you are filled
with value and worth anddignity, and it has nothing to
do with your achievements oryour or your accolades.
I was at a, an event where wewe wrote down a lie that you
have to get out of your head,you know, and what I wrote down
(40:13):
is my value, and my worth isdependent on my accomplishments.
I wrote that as a lot.
You know that's and and we tookit up and we burned it, you
know, in in a fire and differentpeople shared their different
lives and whatnot.
But I think we live in a veryachievement oriented culture and
then you add in all of thesedifferent metrics, you know, on
(40:37):
socials and whatnot, for howwell you're achieving, and my
goodness, it leads to anxietyand to depression and really to
isolation, you know, becauseyou're, instead of being
vulnerable, of being vulnerableyou are, at times we can put on
(41:03):
kind of the mask and of whateverwe think will help us to
achieve.
And so that's what's on myheart.
Really to talk about is um,transformational hospitality,
and I just love reading throughthe gospels and you see, you see
that happen everywhere.
Jesus goes, like people arecoming and he has.
You know, jesus was known asthe friend of sinners and tax
(41:26):
collectors.
That was not a um, that was notlike a stamp of approval of him
, that was a slam, you know, forjesus from the religious,
quote-unquote religious eliteand um.
Yet what we find with thesavior is that people who are
broken are drawn to him and heand he set them at ease in his
(41:50):
presence.
You know.
That's why he says come to meall you are weary and heavy
laden, I'll give you rest.
Like it was restful to bearound jesus as a broken person.
Um, it wasn't restful to bearound him if you, if you were
kind of putting on the airs thatyou were yeah, you had it all
together yeah, you had it alltogether, yeah he had some.
(42:15):
He had some words for, you know,for the pharisees and sadducees
, the religious elite and thosewho thought they had it all
together.
But, man, if you came in going,I've blown it.
I have blown it.
Jesus had a way of of uhsetting you at ease and we have
(42:35):
hanging over our coffee station.
It says to all who are wearyand need rest, to all who mourn
and long for comfort, to all whofailed and desire strength, to
all who have sinned and need aSavior, this home opens wide her
(42:57):
doors with a welcome from Jesus, the mighty friend of sinners.
And I got that from Ray OrtlandJr, who got that from, I think,
10th Prez in Philadelphia, Ibelieve.
But, man, I have seen God dounbelievable things, just as
(43:24):
people dine together over atable of grace.
It's amazing.
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I can't, I can't wait .
It's going to be fun and it'llbe fun to meet you in person and
just kind of hang out, and youknow we'll uh I'm excited yeah,
I.
Want to hang in san diego iswhat I want to do, I want to get
, I want to get out there manwatch the sunset, we're watching
plague off.
We we might have to just playcraig.
(43:53):
You know I'm going to get thatmp3 and play Craig at the
concert or at the at theconference to open it up.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Um well, you'll hear.
You'll hear me immediatelyshare Isaiah 42,.
Eight then, cause that's whereI'm, a hundred percent, a
hundred percent, Um, what like.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
As we wrap, tell me about glad you're here
ministries Like, what's that youknow?
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, yeah, it yeah.
Well, it really is abouteverything that we're talking
about here.
I, you know, I share.
I continue to write and speak.
People can go toCraigAllenCoopercom and check
out the info on both of those,on both of those, but glad
you're here.
Ministries is really to helpequip other, you know, churches
(44:40):
and organizations and nonprofitsand businesses, you know to to
have open arms oftransformational hospitality,
you know, so that you canwelcome people just as they are.
I think it's what we all need,you know, we, we need that
acceptance that's not based onour performance and uh, and so
(45:04):
it's the opportunity to to speakand to write.
Um, I just dropped another bookcalled Overflowing Mercies,
which is a devotional book, uh,and it is on meditation,
meditations on the tender heartof God, and so where people
would see through glad you'rehere the, the hands and feet of
Jesus at work.
(45:25):
They, many people wrote in andshared that through overflow and
mercies, you would feel hisheart.
You know what's God's heart foryou, what's his heart for me
and and else.
And so, yeah, continue to write, speak and just watch what only
God can do through it all.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, that's amazing man.
Well, Craig, thanks for comingon the show today and telling us
the story.
I had a good time.
So hopefully everybodylistening just appreciates that
story and goes to check you out.
I'm glad to hear ministries andcomes to MCL to hear you speak.
Man, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I can't wait for MCL.
It's going to be awesome.
It's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
It's going to be fun.
Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Where should folks?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
go?
Should they go?
So they just look for GladYou're here, ministries online
or somewhere else that you likepeople to go check it out.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Everywhere my handle is is essentially at Craig Allen
Cooper everywhere, and Allen isa L L E N and so if you just
type in Craig Allen Cooper,it'll take you to Craig Allen
Coopercom.
And then I'm mostly active onInstagram Try to share
encouragements, you know, on aregular basis there, but you can
(46:34):
find me pretty easily throughCraig Allen Cooper anywhere and
then that's connected to gladyou're here.
Ministries yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Love it, love it.
That's awesome.
Well, thanks for coming on,craig, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
My pleasure.
Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, thanks guys for listening.
Uh, great show shared on allthe socials and we'll check you
guys next week on anotherepisode of modern church leader.
See ya.
Let's do this.
Hey guys, frank here withanother episode of Modern Church
Leader, excited to talk toCraig Cooper today.
Craig, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So happy to be here.
Thanks so much for having me,Frank.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Like you got this really cool story.
You've written a few books.
We're going to talk about oneof those stories, but tell us a
little bit about you, like howdid you get into ministry and
what are you up to these daysand all that We'd love to hear
kind of the journey.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Yeah, Thanks for asking.
Yeah, so I live in the greaterNashville area just south of
Franklin, Tennessee.
My wife and I actually arecelebrating our 25th wedding
anniversary which is super cool.
And uh we do anything.
Yeah, A little vacation nextweek, just the two of us and
(00:55):
super stoked to to do that andturn everything off and just
reflect and enjoy.
Um, it's going to be.
It's going to be great, yeah.
But we, um, yeah, we live inthe greater Nashville area.
We've got four kids.
I'm in kind of in the launchphase with two of them One.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Wait, what's the launch phase?
Graduating high school orcollege?
Which one?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, it's both.
So my oldest daughter, karis,just graduated from the
university of Alabama, which ishilarious because I went to ut
and knoxville.
So I always say go vols, butthey alabama actually gave her a
big scholarship and she wentinto their honors program so we
bought the hat and everythingand I said roll tide, um, except
(01:36):
when alabama's playingtennessee, yeah, and then my
blood runs deep orange.
So that's awesome, but, yeah,super grateful.
So she just graduated fromcollege, so she's going to do a
master's degree and then kind ofgo into life in the real world
and all of that.
So she's doing an internshipover the summer.
(01:59):
And my son just graduated fromhigh school and is heading up to
NYU for Clive Davis Institute.
He got accepted into Clive andthey only accept 60 students
into that program for musicproduction worldwide.
So we were blown away.
(02:20):
I mean we celebrated like crazy.
Lara caught it on video andthat video went viral.
It went all over the world.
It was really cool, uh, when hegot his acceptance.
So I say we're in the launchphase on that end because really
two of our kids aren't living,uh, at home right in in the fall
.
And then, um, I've got, uh, myother daughter is in high school
(02:46):
and then my youngest daughteris in middle school.
So we're right in the thick ofparenting.
And, yeah, I'm Tennessee bornand raised.
I, above my computer, here I'vegot quotes from Drew Holcomb,
the neighbors of the song thatsays I was born here and I was
raised here and I'll make mygrave here.
It's home, tennessee, um.
(03:08):
I love it, but we we lived in.
I lived in chattanooga, grew upattending and then went to
school in knoxville, ut.
That's where I met jesus.
That's where, honestly, thethree biggest introductions in
my life happened.
Through a campus ministry therecalled volunteers for christ,
vfc.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I was introduced to jesus, uh, introduced to my wife.
Life happened through a campusministry there called Volunteers
for Christ, vfc.
That's amazing.
Yeah, I was introduced to Jesus, introduced to my wife and
(03:30):
introduced into kind of thewhole trajectory for ministry
and so massive impact on my life.
And you know that was back in1995.
So I'm dating myself here, butI'm getting older.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Hey, I can relate, man.
I met my wife before, but I'min San Diego.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I love San Diego so much, come visit.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Man, I love San Diego .
We'll either do some golfing orwe'll go to the beach One of
the two.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You don't want to golf with me?
You're going to be hearing four, a lot Four.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Look out the ball is headed to your head.
Most of golf is just having agood time, so I feel like we'd
have a good time.
I can do that.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Hey, top three favorite sunsets in my life were
in San Diego.
I took my wife to Coronado andwe watched the sunset there and
everybody had their phones outtaking pictures and stuff.
So I love San Diego.
It's super cool and I'll takeyou up on that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You just text me when you're coming out.
But yeah, I became a Christianin college.
My wife and I had met, but wekind of reestablished the
relationship as Christians andeventually got married.
And my first job I was a youthpastor for five years.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I feel it.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I have a strong.
My campus ministry, collegeministry days were some of the
best of my life.
Like it was an absolute blast.
Met some of my best friends tothis day.
Like for Memorial Day.
Like four families get togetherevery year.
We're all from that campusministry.
We go out to the lake and hang.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Yeah, it's a good time.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I'm saying, yeah, it is.
It's a good time of life,campus ministry, we go out to
the lake and hang so, um, yeah,it's a good time you know what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Uh, it's a good time of life.
It's you and I'd love to seewhat's happening in the college
campuses now.
I've, you know, with hundredsof kids like professing faith in
Christ and getting baptized indifferent moments where, like,
the passion band has gone outand you, like the passion band
has gone out, and you know, I'veseen jp and jenny allen and
different people um maddie prue,uh post about what's happening
(05:51):
and it felt like that in 1995.
It felt like that for me at uh,at ut.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I was in the number one party dorm in the us at the
time in the whole us because sandiego state I'm sure is it
ranking up there Like it was awhole U S and it was.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
It was called a Hess hall and they called it the zoo,
and I mean there was no airconditioning so everybody left
their doors open and theirwindows open.
So it was like so communal,it's like something back in the
seventies.
But then tons of people were on, you know, on drugs and on all
kinds.
You know there was, but whathappened is God just like
(06:30):
reached in and startedtransforming people's lives and
we had Bible studies where youknow the rooms just like your
dorm room just packed out 30people Right, and it's only
supposed to fit two.
You know it was really cool,what was happening.
I feel like that's happeningnow.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It's really cool yeah , yeah, it's, uh, it is pretty
cool.
Um, so that's when you became achristian and then you did you
go into full-time ministry rightfrom there, or what's the,
what's the story post campusyeah, so well.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
The night I came to faith in Christ it was October
26th of 95.
A guy came up to me who led thecampus ministry and he said hey
, champ, what's God doing inyour heart?
And I said I just want to givemy life to Jesus and do what
that man is doing.
And I pointed to the guy whohad just preached the gospel and
(07:22):
led me to the Lord.
Just preach the gospel and ledme to the Lord, so that what
ended up happening from there isthe man who led the campus
ministry said hey, let's gettogether every Tuesday, so with
myself and my twin brother Ihave an identical twin brother
every Tuesday 2.30, presidentialcourt.
(07:44):
He sat down and he just reallydiscipled us like, walked us
through the gospel, walked usthrough different books, walked
us through, you know, I rememberhim being in our dorm one time
to come, you know, get us.
And he kept his eyes down andhe looked real a little
uncomfortable.
And then I kind of looked backlike what's he uncomfortable
with?
We had this like big poster ofof a swimsuit model and they're
(08:05):
like is that bad?
And he's.
And he's like well, you know,bro, you want to.
You know, guard your heart andwe, like, immediately ripped it
down and he just walked methrough everything.
I ended up naming my son afterhim Joshua Landis, wow, cooper,
after Bruce Landis a massiveimpact on my life as a mentor.
(08:26):
But yeah, he he's.
You know.
They started asking do you feelcalled to ministry?
And I said yes and so graduatedin three years, went to a
school of ministry, a pastor'scollege, came back, got married
and married on June 5th and thenstarted into ministry June 15th
(08:48):
and, uh, like you, I mean I didyouth ministry, I did campus
ministry, but we were in a smallchurch at the time, it was
about maybe 200, 250 and it grewto about a thousand.
And what happened was I wasdoing youth ministry, campus
ministry, worship ministry,small group ministry and I
(09:11):
packed my days.
I just had something everynight and then would try to
connect with my wife on Sundaynight and I was exhausted.
It wasn't sustainable and itwasn't working.
And I started praying Lord, ifI'm supposed to do something
different, let me know.
And, um, I thought I hit amajor burnout and the team,
(09:33):
actually they, you know, theykind of discerned all of that
and they're like, hey, we'regoing to let you, we're gonna
let you go and go find somebusiness experience.
Go and business experience go.
Just you know.
And I was devastated, like, um,they announced the church.
You know, craig hasn't doneanything wrong that would
disqualify him from ministry,but he just needs to do
something different and based onthe needs of the church and
(09:56):
where he is at the time, there'sno longer a match.
And I was like it crushed me,right, but, and it I felt like a
, it wasn't a loss of a job, itfelt like, you know, loss of a
calling, like what's, what am I,you know.
But god used it, um, that inthe midst of all the brokenness,
(10:16):
he really drew me to himselfand I would take long, long
walks on sunday afternoons afterchurch and just pour my heart
out to the Lord.
And about five years later, youknow the church, we stayed in
the same church, which was, youknow, it was kind of humbling
Right Right.
About five years later, youknow, the lead pastor said hey,
(10:39):
I feel like I wish I had neverlet you go and we all feel like
you're called.
Would you consider coming backon?
And I had developed asuccessful career at that point
in recruiting and staffing andso I took a 50% pay cut, went
back with the church and theintent was to help plant a
church Right.
And so did that for five years.
(10:59):
And then we relocated to theNashville area to help plant
Redeeming Grace.
Then we relocated to theNashville area to help plant
Redeeming Grace.
Yeah, and that's where lifejust changed in a big way too,
when we came to Nashville.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, it was awesome.
Yeah, I mean I'm sure that wasa crazy ride.
I mean that was a 10, 20-yearencapsulation of going into
ministry, however long that went.
Then you get you know they'relike, hey, this isn't working
and you spend X number of yearsbeing a recruit my wife was a
recruiter, by the way, so I, Ikind of what did she recruit for
(11:35):
?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What type of specialties?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
She bounced around.
She spent most of her time at acompany called SAIC which I
think yeah is has a differentname now, or like leidos or some
like yeah, but she was aninside recruiter for them for a
long time and, uh, so you know,just defense contracts, all
kinds of positions in that worldwas kind of her her thing,
(12:00):
that's awesome so yeah, but Iremember when she started
recruiting and she was like thenewbie and it's kind of a sales
job right yeah so recruitingyour sales right, it's, it's
like that, it's in that lane anduh man, it was hard when she
started.
Yeah, she was you know, entrylevel, mostly making commission
(12:21):
with a draw, like it was.
You know, you know it was atough go, but she, uh, she
figured it out along the way andended up doing pretty well.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So yeah, wow, well, tell her.
I said what's up?
Uh, I, I know that whole world.
I did pharmaceutical, medicaland biotech recruiting and then
what's crazy is when we went toplant the church, I got offered
I was on a like a personalretreat, you know to come over
here and pray through the areaand everything and I got
(12:47):
connected with a group.
That uh guy was a believer, theman who owned the firm, and he
was looking for a believer withstaffing experience, right, and
I'm like I.
I got connected with him and Iwas like I've been out of the
game for five years.
He said, craig, you would beperfect for our group.
(13:10):
He made me an offer on the spot.
If I had not had that time inthe wilderness, out of ministry
and doing staffing, I wouldn'thave been able to do what we do.
I took the job as a healthcareIT recruiter and he brought me
in as a senior recruiter becauseof my you know five years of
(13:32):
recruiting experience.
Yeah, and, and you know, havingme help lead the younger guys
and the team and everything, and, and he prayed for the church,
plant all this stuff.
And so I was able to go byvocational and not take any
money from the church but beable to give back to the church,
plant all this stuff.
And so I was able to go buy avocational and not take any
money from the church, uh, butbe able to give back to the
church while we helped establishand plant the church Right, and
I ran with them for six yearsand it was.
(13:53):
You know, god, he never wastespain.
He never wastes, uh, any ofthat.
He uses it all.
But I couldn't see it until ithappened and it happened in a
flash, right, um, and I'm I'm so, so, so grateful yeah, and, but
it didn't seem like a flashwhen you were going through it.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It only seems like a flash now that you look back on
it.
Right, you're like, wow, thatwas a short yeah, but I bet you,
those long walks on sunday, uhwere extremely long walks and
you probably did a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
They were.
Yeah, my shirt was wet, youknow, with tears.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean for real, not just the sweat, but the.
I mean I, I really I love Psalm62, eight.
It's one of my favorite verses.
Trust in him at all times.
Oh, peoples, pour out yourheart before him, for God, as a
refuge for us.
And I felt like God just wasinviting me on those walks to,
um, like, pour it all out Rightand, and which meant I could be
(14:53):
honest with him about how thathurt and the bewilderment and
not understanding what was goingon in my life at the time.
And uh, you know, I think ofit's like if you have a
neglected milk carton.
You know, we had that happen inthe fridge one time at another
place in the, in the garage.
(15:15):
You know, and you, you know,you, you look at that and it's
curdled milk, it's nasty.
Um, you you open that thing up,pour it out in the sink and
you're about to upchuck, itstinks and all of that.
But I felt like God was sayinghey, you can pour out what's in
your heart, even if it's asnasty as curdled milk.
(15:39):
And that's part of trusting inHim is pouring your heart out
before Him.
And so I'm really grateful thatI got let go.
Yeah, because I was running ata clip that didn't sustain
communion with God in the waythat we all need.
And I needed those Sundayafternoon walks and the quiet
(16:05):
moments and yeah it's, and itprobably saved my marriage.
Honestly, the I mean we're at25 years now and, like the first
two years were hard because Iwas doing it was it was not
sustainable.
And so we started slowing thepace.
Andvor in the grace and it wasawesome.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
So good, god is good.
That's one of the things whenI've had moments, you know, not
the same, but you know the toughtimes and you're just like
remembering that God is good andhe knows how to give good gifts
.
And it's good Like.
You know, like really trying tolike remind yourself of that
(16:50):
kind of stuff during the hardtimes and then being able to
look back and go man, that wastough but like, look look at the
the fruit of staying close toGod and doing the right things
through all those moments.
And you know it sounds like youlook back and you got lots of
fond memories.
I do, and you know it soundslike you look back and you got
lots of fond memories, I do.
I mean, so we're going to getinto kind of your story.
Like you wrote the book GladYou're here, yeah, and that's
(17:12):
based on a pretty cool story.
Yeah, you know, who knows thejourney you just described?
Maybe, if you do somethingdifferent, like that story
doesn't exist.
So, yeah, right, like.
But so tell us, you wrote abook.
It's called Glad You're here,two Unlikely Friends Breaking
Bread and Fences.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And that's the subtitle.
We say Unlikely Friends.
I co-wrote it with my bestfriend, Walker Hayes, and he's a
singer, songwriter, countrymusic star and for people who
you may know, the song FancyLike yeah, we fancy like
applebee's on a date.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I'm telling you.
We have 20 middle school kidscoming over today and I'm gonna
play that song to start theparty.
That's crushing pool party for,for all the middle school
graduates.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And that's how we're gonna start it off, you're gonna
, you're gonna have to videothat.
I want to see that if anybodybreaks out into the fancy like
dance.
It went crazy viral that songdid and launched his career into
another stratosphere.
But when we met it was over 10years ago and we say unlikely
(18:35):
friends because we really were.
You would have never put thetwo of us together on paper to
become best friends, but God didthat and so we.
He was an atheist.
He wanted nothing to do withthe church.
He had some church hurt fromthe past and he was really
(18:55):
struggling with alcoholism.
I didn't even know how deep itwas at the time but you know he
would say, hey, he was a high,high functioning alcoholic Um
and he was struggling with akind of a failing music career.
He had.
He moved here, like many peopledo um to Nashville.
(19:16):
He came from Mobile chasing adream and um ended up playing at
the bluebird and all this kindof stuff, found out that they
sing their own songs at thebluebirds.
Who went out and he's like,okay, I gotta write original
songs and he started doing that.
He got signed pretty early on,you know, with capital records
and and but he had kind of thesame moment that I had, where he
(19:39):
got cut, he got let go, he losthis record label, and so very
early on, as we were hanging outtogether and the story is, our
wives met first.
So his wife is Lainey, my wifeis Laura.
(19:59):
They met at a neighborhoodfunction, um, and then where's
the connection?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
proximity wise, are you guys?
You live in the sameneighborhood and that's.
They ran into each other atsome function.
You're saying that was kind oflike just the random connection.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
We were.
We were all living in WestFranklin and they were in
another neighborhood.
That was, you know, maybe fiveminutes from where we were
living at the time, but they hada mutual connection and, uh,
someone had we've we've allmoved different times, you know,
at this point.
But so essentially, uh, lauraand Laney find themselves
(20:35):
together at a, at a someone'shouse, and that house, um,
actually was kind of in ourbackyard, you know, at the time,
uh, you could see it from wherewe were.
And so then they reconnected.
They saw each other at abasketball.
So our kids, my son and and, uh, their boys, were playing
(20:55):
basketball and you know, laurarecognizes laney and hey, you
know, and they reconnected, andso lara invited them to church,
like, hey, would y'all want tocome to church?
Um, and laney said yes, and youknow, walker, he wasn't too
happy with with lara at the timenow.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Our lives are way more spiritual than us anyway, I
get it a hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Well, our church was meeting on Saturday nights.
It was a brand new church plant.
We, we, we were trying to justget any building that would
allow us to meet, and so, youknow, saturday night's a good
time and we were in the boonies,real South of Franklin, right
next to Thompson station.
And you know this is the winterwe met, so the sun sets in
(21:43):
Nashville at like four, 30 inthe afternoon and you know,
there so it's nighttime whenyou're driving to church and all
this kind of stuff, a lot ofhurdles, a lot of hurdles, um,
to do this.
But they said they were goingto come and they and they, they
came.
You know a lot of people wouldsay, yeah, I'll come.
Right, 30 people in this churchplan at the time.
(22:03):
So they, they show up, walker,you know, comes in and he says
the first words out of my mouthwere um, we're glad you're here.
But I said it like dude, gladyou're here, like he felt it,
you know, and I was stoked thatthey came.
(22:24):
You know, we did the meetingand everything, and then
afterwards, um, it's like, havey'all had dinner?
And they hadn't.
So we all went to one of theirfavorite places and that ended
up becoming a rhythm like theywould come saturday night we
would do dinner after church andthen we would be over at each
other's houses, like on aTuesday, wednesday night, back
and forth, and then we would goto all the kids' games together.
(22:47):
So Walker and I would do likethe scoreboard for my kids'
baseball games and all thisstuff, and so we developed this
huge fast friendship.
And so we developed this hugefast friendship and I was a
struggling church plantingpastor, discouraged and you know
, and he was working through hisstuff, and we kind of bonded
(23:10):
over our brokenness, includinglike, hey, you know, he's like I
lost the record, I'm like, dude, I got let go from a church you
know like, and he related to meand I related to him and I felt
like I could tell him anythingand everything and um, he, god,
(23:31):
just um, really blessed both ofour families through that
friendship.
So, laura and Laney, supertight best of friends, walker
and I, super tight best friends,and our kids were the same, uh,
but again, he, he didn't umwant to have anything to do with
(23:51):
the name Jesus, um, when at onepoint they lost a sponsored
vehicle that they had sponsoredthrough kind of songwriting
stuff that he had.
And they came in and pounded itand everything, cause it was
basically uh, it was part of theuh, a sponsorship, and they
took it back.
(24:11):
Um, so they didn't have avehicle.
So well, I started praying likeLord, please help us to be able
to give them our van, becausethey need it.
They had borrowed it before andthey have a bigger family than
we do.
And so I closed the deal instaffing and we bought a little
(24:32):
used vehicle and we cleaned upour van and we secretly took it
to the ball field one nightafter his son Baylor's game, and
I had the keys, the title andthe pen in my hand and I, and
then, you know, he came up.
He's like what do y'all do?
Hey, bro, what are y'all doinghere?
Because we had missed the game.
And then he's doing them.
He's looking at like why do youhave two cars?
(24:52):
What do you do?
And I had, bro, all you got todo is sign and this is yours.
And he stepped back like no, no, no way, no, I'm not taking the
car.
And I was like I've alreadysigned my part, like all you got
to do is sign.
And we kind of had a little bitof an argument because I didn't
(25:14):
want to take no for an answerbut he didn't want to like
accept it.
And finally Lila, his daughter,his oldest, said Dad, just take
the car.
And so he, he took it.
And it was a little awkwardwhen they drove away because I
was telling Laura like I hope Ididn't offend him.
(25:37):
You know, I hope this didn'tdamage our relationship.
Right, I was concerned.
And man, I hope this didn'tdamage our relationship.
Right, I was concerned.
And a man boy, it did notdamage our relationship.
What it?
It really broke down some wallskind of in his heart and
everything and some barriers.
And he's, he reallycontemplated a lot about that
(25:58):
and he would always we'd be atthe ball field and be like, dude
, you gave me your car and hedidn't know how to thank me.
So he wrote a song and the songwas called Craig and the song is
really all about our friendshipand my relationship with Jesus,
saying from the perspective ofa man who didn't believe in him,
(26:22):
who didn't believe in Jesus,and it was written as an atheist
.
And when I first got it I justwept and realized, oh, I'm right
where God wants me, because Iwas looking around going.
I'm really discouraged, I'm notseeing anything major happening
in my life, in ministry, and wecame here to help plant a
(26:44):
church and see lives changed andwhat's going on.
And you know, lord, am I in theright place?
And um, I had sent an email tothe pastoral team of redeeming
grace and I'm not sure there'sfruit here.
I'm not sure I'm supposed tokeep going.
Anyway, he dropped that song inmy lap and it really overpowered
me.
It felt like God himselfsinging over me, like the
(27:08):
Zephaniah 317.
The Lord, your God, is in yourmidst.
A mighty one he'll save.
He'll rejoice over you withgladness, he'll quiet you with
his love.
He'll exalt over you withsinging, loud singing, and and
um, that song was not reallymeant to go to anybody else, but
his team heard it and theyloved it and they put it on an
(27:28):
album.
And uh, then walker and laneylost a child.
We walked through that as theylost oakley, their seventh,
seventh in childbirth, almostlost Laney and slowly over time
Walker's looking about whatreally matters in life and he
(27:50):
would have deep conversationswith me and things.
And the guy was doing a lotwhen he was out on tour, read a
book called the Secrets of anUnlikely Convert and he really
resonated with it and reallyrelated to it.
God was doing a lot when he wasout on tour, read a book called
the secrets of an unlikelyconvert and he really resonated
with it and really related to it.
And then when he got back, hesat down with us at a sushi
restaurant and said I gotsomething to share with you and
I thought he was going to talkabout, like you know, tour songs
(28:13):
.
Yeah.
And I said what's up, man?
And I've got like chopsticks inmy hand, sushi, like coming out
to my mouth when he says Ibelieve.
And I was like you believe,what do you believe?
And he said all of it and I putmy chopsticks down and I was
(28:37):
like well, are you saying youbelieve Jesus is the son of God
and that you want to live yourlife for his glory?
And he said that's exactly whatI'm saying, bro.
And I was like I just stood upand gave him the hugest bear hug
that I've ever given anybody,like squeeze life out of both of
us and really into both of us.
(28:58):
And I had to excuse myself.
I went into the back restroomand fell on my knees and just
worshiped God.
And now Walker sings that song.
They recut it with Mercy Melike Bart Millard of I Can Only
Imagine.
And now he sings it in acelebratory way in his concerts
(29:21):
while he shares his testimony,whereas before he's saying it in
a real contemplative way, likeI don't know about all this, you
know.
But yeah, that's the story ofglad you're here.
It's been unbelievable to see.
Only God could do it.
In fact, we've got tattooed onour wrists Isaiah 40 to eight.
I am the Lord, that is my name,my glory I give to no other.
(29:48):
Uh, so that anytime I hear thestory, or he shares the story, I
think every grain of glory,every ounce of praise belongs
exclusively to Jesus.
So mine's on my left wrist andhis is on his, his right wrist,
yeah, that's it, man.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I mean, I don't even really have anything to ask,
like that's just awesome, likeonly god, you know it's
territory that that story, Imean it's.
It's like amplified in the senseof, like it's walker hayes and
you know, like he he's a countrystar and all that.
But like, okay, strip that partout for a sec and like, just
(30:21):
how cool, like you guys loved upon this family and you cared
about him and you built afriendship and they loved up on
us and like, yeah, yeah, likeyou, it wasn't.
Like Sometimes, as Christians,we can get up.
It's all about helping peopleknow Christ.
That's the thing You're goingafter.
(30:43):
Helping people.
That's the main goal.
People aren't open to it.
You move on to the next people.
That can be a thing I don'tthink maliciously or with you
know bad intent or anything likethat, but you end up doing that
kind of thing.
But like you just built thisgreat friendship with a family
(31:05):
and, and you know it, it tookyears.
I don't know how many yearsthat story went over, but it
sounds like a number of years.
Um, and your kids are bestfriends and you know, after x
number of years, and your kidsare best friends and you know,
after X number of years, youknow God is working the whole
time and somebody gets to knowhim.
Like I just think that's.
That's like what it's all about.
It's the best story on theplanet.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, man, yeah.
Well, thanks for letting meshare it, cause it always builds
my faith.
You know, you get.
You get into just livingregular life and we can forget I
can forget just God'sextraordinary work and ordinary
daily life.
I've got hanging over my windowframe here, a verse from 2
(31:52):
Timothy 2.
It just says remember Jesus,remember Jesus, I think my kids
can memorize that one.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
They like to say Jesus wept, because it's an easy
one to memorize, you know, somaybe remember Jesus.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, it's remember Jesus Christ, you know, risen
from the dead.
But, man, we can even get intoliving the Christian life in a
way that you forget the Christfor whom you're living.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's just so.
I find that so.
Anytime someone shares theirtestimony, they share their
story, they share what God hasdone in their lives.
It just reinforces what we allneed to remember, um, which is
remember jesus.
All right, so I appreciate theopportunity to reshare what how
(32:45):
did he deliver the song to you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
yeah, like what.
What was that?
You know, it wasn't supposed togo to anybody, but you did.
He just text you like no, it'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah no, that actually laney sent it to lara
because walk walker was like.
I mean, I've never written asong for a dude before this is a
little different.
You know, and I don't even knowhow he's going to respond to
this and right, what he didn'tknow is it's his version of
giving you a car.
(33:16):
Yeah, well, he.
And he that's what's so funny.
Yeah, he just always, he alwayswould say stuff like um dude,
I'm going to do something foryou, you know, and and uh.
But he was trying tocommunicate gratitude, right,
right, um, but the.
But he was trying tocommunicate gratitude, right,
(33:36):
but the way it was delivered.
Actually, I had just gotten backfrom a ministry retreat and I
was deeply discouraged comingback from that retreat and I had
taken a walk in downtownFranklin, down Main Street, up
11th Avenue and back on FairStreet and I had just really had
(33:56):
one of those Sunday walks.
It wasn't a Sunday, it was aMonday, but one of those walks
where I just poured my heart outto the Lord and I said Lord,
you know that I try to encourageother people.
You know that I just need youto please encourage me right now
.
Right, is anything I'm doingmaking a difference in anybody's
(34:18):
life?
Please help me see that youhave me where you want me,
because we were about five yearsinto the church plan at the
time and I was like I'm not suremy contributions are doing
anything here.
And that night I took Laura on adate.
We were at the Chipotle.
(34:40):
We came into our car and I'mtelling her how discouraged I
was, telling her the way I waspraying, and her phone buzzed
and it was from Lainey.
And I remember being a littlebit agitated that she was
looking at her phone while I wastrying to pour out my heart and
(35:00):
I'm like babe, who's that?
And she said it's Laney.
And I was like can you tellLane that you know we're out on
a date?
And she's like well, it's gotan MP3 on it.
It says your name, it saysCraig.
I think we should play the memo, the note, and I was, I kind of
resisted that and she persisted.
(35:21):
And that's when, through thespeakers, I first heard I met
craig at a church calledredeeming grace.
It's like he understood my Idon't want to be here face.
I fell out of place, I smelledlike beer.
But he just shook my hand, saidI'm glad you're here.
And then it goes through.
And just like I was overcomewith emotion I was, I just wept
(35:42):
and and I couldn't respond.
So I just said to lara, youknow, probably an hour later, I
was like can you just say I'mspeechless?
And she just said Craig'sspeechless and yeah, but I mean
he's played that at PAX Stadium,houston, 70,000 people and
(36:08):
he'll share his story.
Yeah, and I mean that's why Ihave this on my wrist, because
I'm like man, only God can dothat Unbelievable.
I couldn't dream of it and Goddid it.
That's how he delivered it.
He delivered it through hiswife and I'm so grateful.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
That's cool.
One of the kindest things I'veever received.
It's the power of just lovingpeople right.
Then God worked through it allLike you were doing what you do,
like to love people and and belike Jesus.
And then God does somethingpretty crazy Like and he's and
(36:48):
and uh, you know, some dude iswriting songs about you.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
And he loved on me and man, yeah, I'm, I, just, I
just I'm so thankful for thatexpression of kindness, yeah,
because I'm a guy who kind ofcan beat myself up, you know.
Yeah, so to hear that and islike, whoa, thank you Lord.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Big deal.
Well, I guess we could sit.
It's such a cool story.
I could sit and keep asking youquestions about it.
But like you're also coming tospeak at our conference in
October, Woo Cannot wait.
Like you're.
You know the random connectionis you happen to run into
Tithely somewhere and you'vebeen using Tithely at your
(37:32):
church or maybe in your likesomewhere.
You had a connection right.
And so Justin, our marketingguy, you know, knew of you and
somehow you know made connectionand here we are.
But you're going to come andspeak at the conference, but
hospitality on the you know thetopic of hospitality or
something around hospitality andI can't help but think like
(37:55):
that whole story kind of isabout showing hospitality to
people.
Right, like glad you're herewhen he shows up to church and
take it from there, kind ofthing.
So yeah, tell us more.
Like you know, it's obviouslymonths out, you're working on
things, but why hospitality?
Why is that something thatyou're excited to talk about?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, I love the idea of just
transformational hospitality andbuilding deep relationships.
In an isolated and lonely world, I feel like we are more.
Our world is more connectedthan ever before.
(38:34):
But there's a world ofdifference between table
connection and tablet connection.
And we just have a ton oftablet connection.
You know it's, it's the iPhone,the iPad, the computer, the.
You know social media,instagram, facebook, twitter,
(38:55):
not X, sorry about that.
Uh, and Facebook, twitter, notX, sorry about that.
And you know TikTok, you nameit.
I mean, we are more connectedthan ever before, but more we're
lonelier than we've ever been,and so table connection is is
transformational hospitality.
(39:17):
It's eye to eye, heart to heart, soul to soul, person to person
, around a table of, or how manyfollowers you have or your
influence, anything like that,but just because you're
(39:50):
breathing and you're created inthe image of God, you are filled
with value and worth anddignity, and it has nothing to
do with your achievements oryour or your accolades.
I was at a, an event where wewe wrote down a lie that you
have to get out of your head,you know, and what I wrote down
(40:13):
is my value, and my worth isdependent on my accomplishments.
I wrote that as a lot.
You know that's and and we tookit up and we burned it, you
know, in in a fire and differentpeople shared their different
lives and whatnot.
But I think we live in a veryachievement oriented culture and
then you add in all of thesedifferent metrics, you know, on
(40:37):
socials and whatnot, for howwell you're achieving, and my
goodness, it leads to anxietyand to depression and really to
isolation, you know, becauseyou're, instead of being
vulnerable, of being vulnerableyou are, at times we can put on
(41:03):
kind of the mask and of whateverwe think will help us to
achieve.
And so that's what's on myheart.
Really to talk about is um,transformational hospitality,
and I just love reading throughthe gospels and you see, you see
that happen everywhere.
Jesus goes, like people arecoming and he has.
You know, jesus was known asthe friend of sinners and tax
(41:26):
collectors.
That was not a um, that was notlike a stamp of approval of him
, that was a slam, you know, forjesus from the religious,
quote-unquote religious eliteand um.
Yet what we find with thesavior is that people who are
broken are drawn to him and heand he set them at ease in his
(41:50):
presence.
You know.
That's why he says come to meall you are weary and heavy
laden, I'll give you rest.
Like it was restful to bearound jesus as a broken person.
Um, it wasn't restful to bearound him if you, if you were
kind of putting on the airs thatyou were yeah, you had it all
together yeah, you had it alltogether, yeah he had some.
(42:15):
He had some words for, you know,for the pharisees and sadducees
, the religious elite and thosewho thought they had it all
together.
But, man, if you came in going,I've blown it.
I have blown it.
Jesus had a way of of uhsetting you at ease and we have
(42:35):
hanging over our coffee station.
It says to all who are wearyand need rest, to all who mourn
and long for comfort, to all whofailed and desire strength, to
all who have sinned and need aSavior, this home opens wide her
(42:57):
doors with a welcome from Jesus, the mighty friend of sinners.
And I got that from Ray OrtlandJr, who got that from, I think,
10th Prez in Philadelphia, Ibelieve.
But, man, I have seen God dounbelievable things, just as
(43:24):
people dine together over atable of grace.
It's amazing.
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I can't, I can't wait .
It's going to be fun and it'llbe fun to meet you in person and
just kind of hang out, and youknow we'll uh I'm excited yeah,
I.
Want to hang in san diego iswhat I want to do, I want to get
, I want to get out there manwatch the sunset, we're watching
plague off.
We we might have to just playcraig.
(43:53):
You know I'm going to get thatmp3 and play Craig at the
concert or at the at theconference to open it up.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Um well, you'll hear.
You'll hear me immediatelyshare Isaiah 42,.
Eight then, cause that's whereI'm, a hundred percent, a
hundred percent, Um, what like.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
As we wrap, tell me about glad you're here
ministries Like, what's that youknow?
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, yeah, it yeah.
Well, it really is abouteverything that we're talking
about here.
I, you know, I share.
I continue to write and speak.
People can go toCraigAllenCoopercom and check
out the info on both of those,on both of those, but glad
you're here.
Ministries is really to helpequip other, you know, churches
(44:40):
and organizations and nonprofitsand businesses, you know to to
have open arms oftransformational hospitality,
you know, so that you canwelcome people just as they are.
I think it's what we all need,you know, we, we need that
acceptance that's not based onour performance and uh, and so
(45:04):
it's the opportunity to to speakand to write.
Um, I just dropped another bookcalled Overflowing Mercies,
which is a devotional book, uh,and it is on meditation,
meditations on the tender heartof God, and so where people
would see through glad you'rehere the, the hands and feet of
Jesus at work.
(45:25):
They, many people wrote in andshared that through overflow and
mercies, you would feel hisheart.
You know what's God's heart foryou, what's his heart for me
and and else.
And so, yeah, continue to write, speak and just watch what only
God can do through it all.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, that's amazing man.
Well, Craig, thanks for comingon the show today and telling us
the story.
I had a good time.
So hopefully everybodylistening just appreciates that
story and goes to check you out.
I'm glad to hear ministries andcomes to MCL to hear you speak.
Man, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I can't wait for MCL.
It's going to be awesome.
It's going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
It's going to be fun.
Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Where should folks?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
go?
Should they go?
So they just look for GladYou're here, ministries online
or somewhere else that you likepeople to go check it out.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Everywhere my handle is is essentially at Craig Allen
Cooper everywhere, and Allen isa L L E N and so if you just
type in Craig Allen Cooper,it'll take you to Craig Allen
Coopercom.
And then I'm mostly active onInstagram Try to share
encouragements, you know, on aregular basis there, but you can
(46:34):
find me pretty easily throughCraig Allen Cooper anywhere and
then that's connected to gladyou're here.
Ministries yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Love it, love it.
That's awesome.
Well, thanks for coming on,craig, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
My pleasure.
Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, thanks guys for listening.
Uh, great show shared on allthe socials and we'll check you
guys next week on anotherepisode of modern church leader.
See ya.
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