August 2, 2024 • 38 mins
Discover the transformative power of visual media in church marketing as we sit down with Carl Barnhill, a seasoned Christian entrepreneur and founder of Church Visuals. Explore how engaging visuals, especially video, can revolutionize your church's outreach efforts.
For more information on Church Visuals, visit www.churchvisuals.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey guys, Frank here with another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
I am with Carl Barnhill talkingabout all things church
marketing today.
Carl, how's it going on, man?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What's going on, Frank man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, I think this is round two.
I feel like we did a podcast,like years ago, because I
remember the background andeverything and obviously we've
chatted other times, but I feellike this is round two.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I know I've probably had you on ours and I don't know
if I've been on yours, so uh,um, I think you need to put me
on the payroll by now, I thinkit's talent, talent line item.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
That's right, that's right talent talent line item.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Talent line item Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it's great to have you on.
I mean, you've been a Christianentrepreneur, business guy for
a long time.
Why don't you give us a littlebit of the story?
How did you get into doingchurch visuals and fast forward
into the of the company you havetoday?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, so I kind of started my career.
I mean I did kind of the normal, you know, restaurant round
when I was a teenager.
But I really started my careerat a place called Precept
Ministries International.
It was a lady named Kay Arthurwas a Bible teaching, a Bible
teacher.
It was like a, you know, olderladies Bible teaching program,
(01:28):
that that's a kind of a not TBNbut but almost kind of kind of
Bible teaching program on one ofthose kinds of channels.
But I came in as a junior editorthis is in Chattanooga,
tennessee and then within likesix months a year, we had a team
of probably 10 or 15 folks onthe media team and this is an
(01:50):
international ministry.
I mean the show went to like100 million homes.
I mean it was like huge.
And so so I came in as justlike a junior editor with huge
beta tapes.
I mean we were sending this, isyou know 20 years ago, your
editor with huge beta tapes.
I mean we were sending this, isyou know 20 years ago we were.
I had this whole uh you knowroom where we're duplicating
(02:11):
tapes and mailing it off to TVstations and stuff like that, so
that that kind of environmentis where I started, uh, but uh,
within six months or a year,like my, my boss left and then
his boss left, and so I findmyself like a young 20 something
.
Um, they, they ask me to takeover the media department.
And I'm like what, what are youthinking?
Like I have no experience to dothis.
(02:34):
And so, there, there, I wasproducing and directing this TV
show and then I led a team ofprobably 10 or 15 folks all
older than me, probably 10 or 15folks all older than me.
But it taught me a lot on howto treat people, how to lead,
(02:57):
how to lead when you're youngerand things like that.
And so then I went from Preceptto a large church in
Mississippi and that church wasrunning probably 20, 25,000 on a
Sunday or so, probably, uh,somewhere around there for four
campuses, five campuses, and Iwas like the, the main live
production guy on the maincampus, and this is before like
resi, this is before like someof that stuff.
(03:19):
So we would record a centerscreen and a side screen,
separate cameras, and like, putit on hard drives.
Then put the hard drives inlike a suitcase, like nuclear
football, and like drive itacross town and hook it up at
another campus.
No way.
It was hilarious so, but I wasthe, I was the live production
(03:42):
guy at this church and then Iwas the only content creator.
So so I realized at this church, if I'm at a church of this
size and I'm like the only guy,there's no way a church of five
thousand, two thousand, twohundred Right, is going to
afford a guy like me, or, youknow, even think about hiring a
(04:06):
creative staff.
So this is probably, you know,15 years or so ago, and so that
that's what kind of percolated,this idea of God, kind of laying
in me a heart.
For how can a lot of churcheshave high quality media content
affordable to them?
Have high quality media content, uh, affordable to them?
(04:28):
Um and so and again this isbefore all you know a bunch of
the marketplaces were out thereand stuff, uh.
So that's where the idea startedand then.
So I kind of dabbled on theside and then went to a new
spring church in South Carolina,served there for a little bit,
but uh, kind of grew thebusiness on the side Uh, and
then, uh, the boat was closeenough and so I jumped and so it
was me for a little bit andthen my wife and I, and then it
(04:52):
grew quickly after that.
So it was started out with justme and then now there's about
30 of us all together designers,video folks like that but it's
all about helping ministryleaders communicate the gospel
using visual media.
So not about entertainment, butmore about how can you have
(05:15):
high-quality visual media tocommunicate the?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
gospel.
I love that.
That's a cool story.
A cool story.
Things have come a long wayfrom 20 years ago or 15 or so
years ago, when you had the ideaand started doing it.
What have you seen?
How have things changed fromyour vantage point on all of
this in the last 15 years?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Man, it's been interesting.
I started the company in 2015.
What were you?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
doing in 15?
What kind of things were youdoing for churches at that point
?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, so church announcement videos were big
right, okay, so they would.
You know, I had churches thatwould shoot their talent at
their campus and send it to metalent at their campus and send
it to me, and I would produceall of their announcement videos
, motion graphics, and put itall together for their thing
every every sunday.
So I had a okay slew of thoseuh, and then, um, a lot of lyric
(06:16):
videos.
So I uh seeds family worshipwas a was a big client.
That uh came along kind ofearly uh for me, and so they had
like 12 albums worth of wordfor word scripture and so they
had me create lyric videos toevery single one of their songs.
So, and then it became a lot of,like sermon bumper videos and
(06:39):
testimony videos and things likethat.
And then it quickly got towhere, like, I couldn't keep up
by myself.
And now, to be honest, I rarelydo, I still dabble a little bit
, but now it's mainly runningthe business and kind of
overseeing as opposed toactually getting in the dirt.
And yeah, my, my, uh, my Adobesuite's probably a couple of
(06:59):
versions behind.
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I mean as it should be.
As you grow a business and youknow you guys expand and you,
you know, give yourself theability to serve more churches,
um, but it's so 15 years ago.
You're doing, uh, announcementvideos and some sermon bumper
stuff and things like that.
Like, what are you guys doingtoday?
Like how has it changed?
(07:23):
Or has it changed much, uh, inthat sense, over 15 years?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, I would say church announcement videos
aren't as big of a thing.
In fact, we kind of talk tochurches that are considering
that and going, is this the mostbang for your buck?
Like, are people watching this,or could you spend your money
on life change story videos?
Or or could you spend yourmoney on life change story
videos, or you know things likethat that would be a really big
impact for you.
(07:49):
So now we do a lot of what we.
We serve the church with readymade media, which is like pre
pre made stuff many movies andseries, kits and things like
that, and then custom media.
We serve a lot of churches butwe also serve a lot of really
large ministries.
So folks like Awana or Answersin Genesis or Outreach or you
(08:12):
guys that are doing largerthings, so like, for instance,
answers in Genesis, we've workedon their VBS for the last
probably seven, eight yearsbuilding out lyric videos and
graphics for units and dramavideos and Bible animated Bible
story videos and all of thatkind of stuff.
(08:34):
So, yeah, multiple curriculumsand multiple like big, huge kits
or big, big build outs, thatsort of thing.
Smaller churches as well orsmaller, you know, single
projects as well, but that's alot of what we do.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Why does this stuff like matter?
Like maybe go back to theorigin of it, you know, but like
a lot of churches, I don'tthink think about marketing and
think about the types of piecesof marketing.
You know, um, obviouslychurches are trying to, you know
(09:10):
, get people to come in thedoors and, you know, hear the
gospel and get into the bibleand get into, you know,
community and hear about jesusand all that right, like that's
a thing and, uh, you know howthey do.
It has changed over the yearsand, like the visual and the
online aspect of it is a bigdeal nowadays.
But I'm just not sure if a lotof churches think about it, uh,
(09:34):
or even think about marketing.
You know, sometimes you hearpeople talk about marketing in a
negative way, uh, associatedwith kind of the church and
whatnot.
So yeah, what's your take Likewhy does this stuff matter and
what's it all about?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Man, I would say your visuals matter and you hit on
this.
Your visuals matter because thegospel matters.
If we're and I'll get to kindof a marketing some marketing
stats for you, but we create, wepartner with churches and
ministries to not to entertainyour audience, that is not what
(10:06):
we're about.
You can find, you know, highquality stuff in other places or
you can we partner with you tohelp you visually communicate
the gospel.
I only hire believers.
I don't really go like a Upworkor Fiverr route Not that those
(10:26):
things are, you know, not bad incertain instances, but I, you
know it's not like you know, I'mhiring an international team
that's going to do it forcheaper and then I'm pocketing
the money.
That's not.
I mean, I'm not saying thatthat's the case always, but I'm
(10:47):
just saying we only hirebelievers that are all about the
church, that are all abouthelping you, as the ministry
leader, communicate the gospel.
Because if we put a videotogether like, you have to have
the Holy Spirit in you to knownot only how to kind of script
that but also the visualcomponents of how to tell that
(11:09):
story.
If you're not versed in theBible and not really following
Jesus, the visuals are going tocome out a little wonky and you
can kind of tell whether that'sa denominational thing.
I'll give you a practicalexample.
If I see a Mary with a halo ora baby Jesus with a halo, I know
(11:31):
that that's more of a Catholicbent, not to say that some
Catholics aren't Christians.
But I'm just saying thatthere's a bit that we serve kind
of a certain denomination.
We probably kind of stay in the, in the Baptist, methodist,
more, um, assemblies of God,those kind of mainstream uh
(11:55):
denominations that, like you canjust kind of tell how we're
crafting the story, if thatmakes sense, uh, and so you kind
of have to have the Holy Spirit.
So there's that From amarketing aspect.
I'll give you a couple of stats.
So millennials is a bigquestion that I get at.
How do we reach more youngfamilies, millennials, to bring
them in?
(12:15):
Because our church is trying togrow.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Millennials are old now we're old.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
That's true.
That's true, that's true.
How do we reach the nextgeneration?
True, that's true.
How do we reach the nextgeneration?
That's probably a betterquestion.
And millennials, especiallythough let's pick on them for a
second Make a purchasingdecision.
This is in the secularmarketing market 85% of
(12:43):
millennials will make apurchasing decision based on
watching a video.
Now, is the Holy Spirit aproduct that we're trying to
sell?
No, not really.
That's not what I'm saying.
I am saying, though, that ifyou want to reach younger people
, the stats on using video arethrough the roof.
I mean, the video consumptionis crazy.
Through the roof.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Video, video, video is the way to go crazy through
the roof, right, video, video,video is the way to go.
I mean, if you're not, you'dhave to have your head under a
rock and not be paying attentionto the fact that you know
instagram and tiktok and youtubeshorts video, that's where
people spend all their time.
Maybe facebook, right.
Kind of video reels now right,but, like, the video content on
(13:24):
those platforms is what you know, all the young people and not
even just young people.
I mean, it's going to everyonenow, but, yeah, young people,
short form videos where it's at.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know we, yes, on social, definitely In our
churches, though I am kind ofsurprised because the stats are.
I mean, I do a workshop where Ikind of go through the stats on
this and you know if apicture's worth a thousand words
, right?
Well, there's actually anargument that the stats show
(13:59):
that our brain processes visualmedia 60,000 times faster than
text.
So we're understanding a visual60,000 times faster than
reading a word or hearing a word.
And that makes me think, likeman, we're really talking a lot.
Our pastors are not that Idon't love a good sermon.
(14:20):
Our pastors are not that Idon't love a good sermon, but 30
to 40 minutes of every singleSunday is you talking and me
listening, with very littlevisual content.
To help me understand that, ifyou were to add more visual
media, I think that the chancesof that gospel sticking more
would be a lot greater for you.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's a great point.
I don't know the stats on it,but I'm assuming, even if you
looked into it right.
Like we know, different peoplelearn in different ways and some
people learn by reading, somepeople learn by writing, some
people learn by watching, somepeople learn by doing.
There's like lots of forms ofpeople learning and so if you
(15:05):
walk into any church you'regoing to get that whole spectrum
.
So it just makes sense thatyou're trying to kind of
incorporate, like all of thoseelements, and visual and media
being a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Right, yeah.
So I just took my family on avacation to Universal Studios
and some of the coolest rideswere those that that hit all my
senses, right the Spider-Mansand the Transformers and stuff
like that.
That, like, I'm, my body'sbeing moved.
You're you're, you're engagingme visually like crazy.
(15:42):
I'm wearing 3D glasses.
You're, you're engaging mevisually like crazy, I'm wearing
3d glasses.
You're spraying water at me.
You're spraying the wind at me.
You know it's, it's, it's veryimmersive and I knew what to
tell you.
Right, like I.
Spider-man and transformers,right like.
Those are the ones that Iremember the most because they
engaged.
Where am I?
I think there's an argument forthat Like, engage.
(16:04):
There's a lot of people thatthat uh, learn visually and uh
and process visually, and soeven a, even a picture or a
video or something like thatwould on social media and in
your worship experiences, would,would go a long way.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I mean I can't wait to see the church that
introduces wind and watermisting into the seats to go
along with the preaching.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Or zappers or like vibrating.
Yeah, the seats move.
It's one of those.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh my gosh, that would be crazy we did universal
uh a year or so ago and uh, itwas awesome.
I remember I don't rememberspider-man, but I remember
transformers for sure.
Yeah uh, the kids love that oneyep yeah, it's good times, but
are you guys doing much on thesocial media side of things with
churches are?
Do you get asked about it a lot?
(17:03):
Are people curious on how to dowell over there?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, they are.
I think we do get a good chunk.
But I would say that there area lot of AI tools out there,
that instead of reinventing thatwheel we usually partner with
churchtech or with a.
I know you guys have some AItools or sermon shots.
You know my buddy Corey Aldrinover there.
(17:30):
You know folks like that aredoing some really interesting
things in the space.
When it comes to sermon clipsand kind of clipping up your
thing, your longer form piece,that I mean that's probably a
route that I would go.
I mean we're glad to do it, butI would probably go that route.
(17:50):
When it comes to your clips,what we usually do is like a
longer story and then clip thatup into bits.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, Got it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
They have us do a, a church has us do a promo video
or a or a testimony video orsomething like that, and we we
can chop it up into smallerRight, and we would.
I would highly suggest that,like, if you're going to, you're
going to spend the money oncustom media, get as much legs
out of that thing as possible.
You know, put it, put it, putit, air it on your worship
(18:22):
experience, put it in yourcountdown, put it pre-service,
put it on social mediaeverywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, People aren't going to remember it If you're
going to spend money uh on, uhputting on a Sunday service and
having someone preach and thenmaybe having visuals go along
with, like their sermon on ascreen and maybe that's got
pictures, maybe it's got video,maybe it's got testimony, like
(18:48):
all of that, like that wholething is a big piece of content
that can be like chopped.
I mean, that's the beauty ofthese like sermon clip kind of
platforms right, they can helpyou extend that sunday sermon
onto social and you know, evenout like just direct to your
members throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know it doesn't have to just be on social, but
in your newsletter, on yourwebsite, all those kinds of
places, just make sense and Ithink you bring up a good point
that I think that churches needa mixture of produced pieces and
raw pieces.
What I mean by that is, likeyour sermon bumper, your promo
video.
(19:27):
That probably needs to be moreproduced from a team like us.
Your daily devotion from thepastor's office I'm going to
expound on my sermon.
That needs to be your iPhonefrom your desk and put on social
.
Have a mixture of those thingson your platform.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I totally think more pastors, church leaders, should
do that kind of thing Right,like do the daily or weekly or
you know whatever, likedevotional type of thought or
like something where you justbust out your iPhone and you,
yeah, you can script it, you canthink about it, you can kind of
(20:07):
have something, but, like youknow, just bust it out and then
post it on your socials and yourcongregation, like the people
who are, you know, going to yourchurch, want to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And I would say take your 40-minute message that
you're used to preaching andshave 10 minutes off of it.
Let that 10 minutes of contentbe your social media content for
the rest of the week.
Like plan for it.
You're already writing it.
(20:40):
I've written five points, fourof them we're going to talk
about on Sunday.
I'm going to give you the fifthpoint this week.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I love that idea.
That's such a good idea and youcould build from there like, oh
, you're going to get the fifthpoint on Monday or then maybe on
Tuesday.
It's like we're going to talkabout the small group discussion
format based on it.
I'm going to share a couple ofpoints.
I'm leading a great small groupbased on the topic this week
(21:08):
and you know you could kind ofbuild on where, yeah, two, three
, four, five days after thesermon, you have things that are
just coming from the sermon.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So you could do it live, which would be awesome, or
you could sit down on a Sundayafternoon, record five of them
and hand them off to your team,right?
And there's your reels one aday for the next five days,
right.
You know, that's how I shootour podcast.
My podcast is I shoot in bothLike that's the only way I can
(21:41):
survive.
Right Is is is batch, batchstuff.
So you know, I mean you can golive intermittently but like
produce bat, you know batchesworth of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
right, that's fine yeah, totally north coast.
Uh, a big church in town.
They do like the dailydevotional um, I'm forgetting
the name of it right now, butthey'll, you know I'm almost
certain they produce them inbatches related to the sermon
series that's going on.
They have a bunch of differentpastors from the church kind of
take theirs.
(22:15):
You know, okay, you're gonna dothe next five.
You're gonna do the next fiveyeah, and they send out, you
know, every day, throughout theweek.
Um, they use their app, theysend the push notification.
I'm sure it goes out via textand email too, but they do a
great job with it and I thinkit's such a great.
I saw that, you know, a fewyears back.
I'm like it's a great ideabecause it's like daily content
(22:36):
from the church and they're ableto do it on a big budget, big
church.
But you know, it doesn't haveto be done like that.
It literally can be done justwith your iPhone and and some
foresight into what you want todo, right and kind of thinking
about it, and once you've doneit a couple of weeks in a row,
it'll just be like clockworkbecause you know you'd be
comfortable at all.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Get into a rhythm of doing it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I thinkthat you know, with the, with AI
, with your phone, there's a lotmore tools now obviously to use
.
Yeah, I still think therealways will be a need for a
person, a creative.
You know creatives in the mixthere needs to be, you know, if
(23:18):
AI is a robot, there needs to besomebody programming the robot,
training the robot, telling itwhat.
This is our voice, this is ourbrand, this is how we talk, this
is our theology, this is ouryou gotta.
There always will be humansinvolved to craft, uh, that, um,
so yeah, yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
what's your?
I don't know how I can'ttangent on AI, for you?
Yeah, no, I mean, you broughtit up.
So what?
What tools?
You mentioned a few.
Are there any others thatyou're like, oh man, we're using
these, you know, at my firm oryou're seeing churches use them,
or you're hearing pastors talkabout them, like what?
What kind of AI stuff is outthere in the wild?
Ai stuff is out there in thewild.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Man.
I think that I don't think thata lot of churches have fully
embraced it.
I think some have.
I mean your mid journey, yourLeonardo, your, your ideogram,
your chat, gpt obviously youryour thing, things like that are
definitely out there.
(24:22):
I think that the biggest andchurches are using those.
I do think that there's stillsome learning of prompts,
learning how to do this, andthen it doesn't do text right,
which floors me.
I don't understand how AI can'tdo text.
Well, you can scour theInternet and come up with you
(24:46):
know, I want to picture an imageof Tom Hanks and it's going to
scour the Internet of all theseTom Hanks and give you Tom Hanks
.
But I can't write, you knowhello, which is hilarious to me,
but when AI can do text, it's.
I think it's going to beanother big game changer.
But but I mean, church tech isa is a big tool that that we're
(25:13):
partnering with now, that thatis used a lot for sermon prep,
and so you know, you can put allyour information in there.
You guys have a tool as well,right?
I think you do.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, we did a little.
You know, yeah, we did a littleside project.
It's called sermonly.
There's another one that's kindof gaining steam, called
pulpitai, I think.
I think they're doing some coolstuff over there, yeah, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
The next step in that and I'll kind of peel back the
curtain a little bit for peopleis to integrate media content
with those types of tools.
Right, that's what we'reworking on now is how do you
move from a sermonly or achurchtech where I'm crafting my
(26:07):
sermon and my sermon series andthen now it's auto-populated
with all the imagery that I canuse for my sermon Right, based
on my content that I'm trainingmy robot to put out?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, like it's kind of taking the outline you've
written and it's taking maybethe key verse and your key
points and some of the you knowthings Again, just taking your
outline and it's like, oh,you're doing a sermon and like
you're using scripture aboutMoses and so I'm going to give
you some visuals, correct kindof go together, you know that's
right they may be good or bad,but you get to choose.
But we're going to surface somestuff for you, uh, to go along
(26:50):
with you.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right, yeah that's what we're working on now
is yeah, can I put in I'm doingthe gospel of mark.
Here's my passages, here's a dada da, and we, like from our
library, we've already done 17series on Mark.
We're going to give you all ofthese pieces that you could pull
in and now you know isintegrated together.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think you're going to see more and more of that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like all the this piece works with.
This piece now works with thispiece.
Like you know, I think you'regoing to start to see all that
kind of come together, right,but man, lightning speed, how
fast the AI.
You know, I think you're goingto start to see all that kind of
come together, right, um, butman, lightning speed, how fast
the ai.
I you know, I, I, um, when I webuilt a new website last year
and I was in writing a coursethat I just couldn't finish, we
had other things on the plate.
(27:35):
That was an ai course so I'mstill kind of in the middle of
writing it, but I've had to goback and write it again and
write it again.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah you, you might as well scrap it.
Just start over from thebeginning.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I know right, Because it's hilarious how fast stuff's
moving.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Are there any tools that you guys are using at your
agency, like?
What kind?
Of AI tools or exploring maybeLike what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So we've used MidJourney, we've used oh shoot,
uh, runway.
Ml is another tool that we'veused.
Uh, we have toyed with some aivoice work.
Uh, man, that that that getskind of scary, especially like
hey, jen, and places like thatthat.
(28:21):
Um, I put in one thing where,like, I used my, my podcast and
I put in clips from my podcastas a reference point, right, and
it spit back out a video and Iput it in a script and it spit
back out a video of me sayingthat script with my mouth moving
to the script scary, so you putit I never, I didn't shoot that
(28:46):
at all.
Right, I didn't say that, any ofthat, but it I mean it was kind
of clunky, but like I'm likeman, the next step or the next
step on this is gonna be rightfreaky so you took like a bunch
of youtube urls, popped them into feed it and then said here's
the script.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Have the you know, put it together, boom, and it
was like here's my right in thisstudio.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
so it knew my, the studio and it's, you know,
trained on me and then trainedon my mouth and then went to the
script and change, you know,made me talk those, those words
in my voice.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
That's crazy, I don't even want to do that, and then
I could go translate to Spanish.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
That's where we're going to get to.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I've been hearing from different pastors mostly
big churches talking about thetranslation thing.
You know like, take my YouTubevideo, the sermon from last week
, translate it into 50 differentlanguages.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I think that's going to be fun?
Yeah, totally.
That's where I think we can usethe tool to our advantage.
I do think I mean, you have tobe very careful.
We haven't like gone full boreinto creating a bunch of
graphics or video content usingAI simply because of the legal
end.
(30:07):
I mean, obviously, just likeyou guys, like we want to
operate with as much integrityas possible, right, and there's
just so many questionssurrounding it right now still,
that it's kind of hard to like.
Do we want to go full bore?
Right?
When is it legal?
Go full bore Right?
When is it legal to do this?
Yeah, especially when like GettyGetty's being sued and you know
(30:30):
, I mean I'm like we've done afew things.
We did this really cool um,like this fantasy uh author uh
has a group of of books that wedid some pro promotional um like
trailers for Right.
Um, it was really neat Cause weuse this, uh, we used runway ML
(30:51):
and some other tools andcreated like an AI world of
these fantasy dragons and stuff,kind of like Narnia meets Lord
of the Rings kind of thing,right, which was neat because
the studio saw it and now she'sunder contract with you know and
like could be a TV show ormovie.
That's so cool so it's neat, butit's also like, ah, how much,
(31:11):
how, how much do we want to takethe human element out of the
mix?
You know, right, yeah, I thinkwe just got to kind of pick and
choose those projects.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, it goes back to your point earlier.
I mean, you, you know you stillneed the thinker and the, the
human, and in our context, youknow, the, the Christian filled
with the spirit, who is, youknow, bringing that to the whole
thing.
You know, like I, that thatcan't go away.
(31:44):
It's like the day that goesaway, like then we, then
everything is gonna get weirdright.
So absolutely true, yeah,absolutely we could talk ai for
a bit.
What, what I guess you know,just so we don't take all day
here.
What?
What are you guys thinkingabout next?
Are you thinking mostly AIstuff?
Are you?
Are there new things emergingwith church marketing, church
(32:05):
visuals that you're you knowgetting into more?
Like where are we headed?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
company we're headed to.
I think the I hate to be kindof political, but the like the,
the economy landscape is is in amuch different place right now.
And so I think that churchesare constantly looking for yes,
we want to enhance our visualmedia, but we want it as cheap
as possible.
Uh, so I'll always kind of say,like you, you, like you know, I
think churches are after like aRuth's Chris experience on a
(32:40):
McDonald's budget, and so how dowe get there?
So I've kind of fought that fora while, that like, hey, you
know, you're trying to dosomething that's over your
budget.
Well, instead of fighting it,we've kind of leaned into it and
said, ok, how can we do this?
And so we've.
We just launched some custommedia plans that include our
(33:01):
library, that include ourtraining, to just try to make it
affordable for the church.
Because I mean, either churchesare seeing creative staff stay
for under three years is thegoing rate.
I mean they're not staying longfor under three years is the
going rate.
I mean they're not staying long.
So how?
And they're like, man, wereally need a graphics guy and a
(33:23):
video guy and that.
So how can we afford that?
And so we're trying to kind ofcome into the market and say
what if we did all of it for youfor less than a part-timer?
And it's really high quality?
So we're trying hard to do that.
So that's where we're headed asa company is to make high
(33:47):
quality visual media affordablefor a church of any any size.
Right, I would say kind of thenext iteration of what we're I
mean AI is definitely, you know,on the radar.
I would say probably, to goback to the integration that's
probably some areas that we'reheaded down is how do we use AI
tools and visuals together?
Can those tools come togetherat all?
(34:10):
That's probably a big next stepthat we're about to take.
That gives you a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Well, I look forward to you doing your session on AI
at the conference in October.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I'll have to rewrite it the night before I do
it, just to make sure.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Just do it the night before It'll be ready AI and
church visuals how they'remeeting together.
Do some cool demos of whatevernew product showed up the day
before, that's right.
And it's going to be fun.
Man, Do you have a topicthought out for the conference
in October?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So I think one thing I'm really thinking about is
that why do your visuals matter?
Why should you use more visualmedia content in your worship
experiences and on social andjust kind of lay out the stats
for that and just kind of showpeople from from adults to
students to kids the stats onvideo.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
And you know if.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I hear it constantly of you know, either our church
is declining or we want to reachour community.
Shockingly, I've heard somerevert like, oh, we don't really
want to grow.
I'm like, well, you should bewanting to grow.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
In some way, like you know like we should all be
growing somehow.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Doesn't have to be, numerically Right, yeah, exactly
.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And so you know, I think the stats on video are
overwhelming in order to do that.
So that's what I'm kind ofpercolating right now.
But you know, we're a fewmonths off, so so we'll, we'll
see if I can.
We'll see if I can bring theheat.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, we got time.
What?
What uh as we wrap man, wherecan folks go to check out church
visuals?
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, Churchvisualscom is our website.
New website, brand new website.
Yeah, we rebranded last year sowe were 1230 media and so now
we're church visuals, and so werebranded to just kind of make
it simpler what we do and whatwe want to be known for, and
that is your visual mediacontent.
And so, yeah, churchvisualscom.
(36:19):
And then you know, just to kindof go back.
It's interesting that, like,we're not about helping you look
great or save time just for thesake of those things and the
more kind of pastors that we seewith moral failures and
congregations that are decliningand stuff like that.
And the gospel is so importantthat it's not about entertaining
(36:44):
people, it's about sharing thegospel with them, and so visual
media is a way to share thegospel where it will really
stick.
And so that's what our team isabout is kind of partnering,
getting in the trenches with andgetting down and dirty about
how can we be creative withvisual media so that you can
reach people for Jesus.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, so love that man, love what you guys do.
Huge fan and definitelyeverybody watching.
Come to Carl's session at theconference, but also go to
churchvisualscom and check outwhat they're up to.
Carl, closing words man, whereshould folks check you out?
Are you on the Insta?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, Carl Barnhill everywhere on social.
Man just I have to say partingwords.
Man, we love you guys, so weconnect a lot at conferences,
mutual friends and folks on yourteam and we do some custom
media work for you guys and justhave been great partners over
(37:47):
the years.
So love what you guys are doingand just kind of.
I know you guys are keepexpanding and keep coming out
with new tools, so it's it'sreally fun to be partnered with
uh with innovators uh, you know,let's look ahead.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So way to go, absolutely, man.
No, I appreciate that, alwaystrying to grow.
And uh, yeah, you've been agreat partner too.
I know Justin and the marketingteam on our side love working
with you guys.
It's been a blast.
And again, if you're watchingman, go check out Church Visuals
and that's a wrap.
So, carl, thanks for coming onthe show today.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Thanks, Frank.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Cool.
See you guys.
We'll check you out next weekon another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
Bye-bye.
Hey guys, Frank here with another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
I am with Carl Barnhill talkingabout all things church
marketing today.
Carl, how's it going on, man?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
What's going on, Frank man, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yeah, I think this is round two.
I feel like we did a podcast,like years ago, because I
remember the background andeverything and obviously we've
chatted other times, but I feellike this is round two.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I know I've probably had you on ours and I don't know
if I've been on yours, so uh,um, I think you need to put me
on the payroll by now, I thinkit's talent, talent line item.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
That's right, that's right talent talent line item.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Talent line item Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, it's great to have you on.
I mean, you've been a Christianentrepreneur, business guy for
a long time.
Why don't you give us a littlebit of the story?
How did you get into doingchurch visuals and fast forward
into the of the company you havetoday?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah, so I kind of started my career.
I mean I did kind of the normal, you know, restaurant round
when I was a teenager.
But I really started my careerat a place called Precept
Ministries International.
It was a lady named Kay Arthurwas a Bible teaching, a Bible
teacher.
It was like a, you know, olderladies Bible teaching program,
(01:28):
that that's a kind of a not TBNbut but almost kind of kind of
Bible teaching program on one ofthose kinds of channels.
But I came in as a junior editorthis is in Chattanooga,
tennessee and then within likesix months a year, we had a team
of probably 10 or 15 folks onthe media team and this is an
(01:50):
international ministry.
I mean the show went to like100 million homes.
I mean it was like huge.
And so so I came in as justlike a junior editor with huge
beta tapes.
I mean we were sending this, isyou know 20 years ago, your
editor with huge beta tapes.
I mean we were sending this, isyou know 20 years ago we were.
I had this whole uh you knowroom where we're duplicating
(02:11):
tapes and mailing it off to TVstations and stuff like that, so
that that kind of environmentis where I started, uh, but uh,
within six months or a year,like my, my boss left and then
his boss left, and so I findmyself like a young 20 something
.
Um, they, they ask me to takeover the media department.
And I'm like what, what are youthinking?
Like I have no experience to dothis.
(02:34):
And so, there, there, I wasproducing and directing this TV
show and then I led a team ofprobably 10 or 15 folks all
older than me, probably 10 or 15folks all older than me.
But it taught me a lot on howto treat people, how to lead,
(02:57):
how to lead when you're youngerand things like that.
And so then I went from Preceptto a large church in
Mississippi and that church wasrunning probably 20, 25,000 on a
Sunday or so, probably, uh,somewhere around there for four
campuses, five campuses, and Iwas like the, the main live
production guy on the maincampus, and this is before like
resi, this is before like someof that stuff.
(03:19):
So we would record a centerscreen and a side screen,
separate cameras, and like, putit on hard drives.
Then put the hard drives inlike a suitcase, like nuclear
football, and like drive itacross town and hook it up at
another campus.
No way.
It was hilarious so, but I wasthe, I was the live production
(03:42):
guy at this church and then Iwas the only content creator.
So so I realized at this church, if I'm at a church of this
size and I'm like the only guy,there's no way a church of five
thousand, two thousand, twohundred Right, is going to
afford a guy like me, or, youknow, even think about hiring a
(04:06):
creative staff.
So this is probably, you know,15 years or so ago, and so that
that's what kind of percolated,this idea of God, kind of laying
in me a heart.
For how can a lot of churcheshave high quality media content
affordable to them?
Have high quality media content, uh, affordable to them?
(04:28):
Um and so and again this isbefore all you know a bunch of
the marketplaces were out thereand stuff, uh.
So that's where the idea startedand then.
So I kind of dabbled on theside and then went to a new
spring church in South Carolina,served there for a little bit,
but uh, kind of grew thebusiness on the side Uh, and
then, uh, the boat was closeenough and so I jumped and so it
was me for a little bit andthen my wife and I, and then it
(04:52):
grew quickly after that.
So it was started out with justme and then now there's about
30 of us all together designers,video folks like that but it's
all about helping ministryleaders communicate the gospel
using visual media.
So not about entertainment, butmore about how can you have
(05:15):
high-quality visual media tocommunicate the?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
gospel.
I love that.
That's a cool story.
A cool story.
Things have come a long wayfrom 20 years ago or 15 or so
years ago, when you had the ideaand started doing it.
What have you seen?
How have things changed fromyour vantage point on all of
this in the last 15 years?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Man, it's been interesting.
I started the company in 2015.
What were you?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
doing in 15?
What kind of things were youdoing for churches at that point
?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, so church announcement videos were big
right, okay, so they would.
You know, I had churches thatwould shoot their talent at
their campus and send it to metalent at their campus and send
it to me, and I would produceall of their announcement videos
, motion graphics, and put itall together for their thing
every every sunday.
So I had a okay slew of thoseuh, and then, um, a lot of lyric
(06:16):
videos.
So I uh seeds family worshipwas a was a big client.
That uh came along kind ofearly uh for me, and so they had
like 12 albums worth of wordfor word scripture and so they
had me create lyric videos toevery single one of their songs.
So, and then it became a lot of,like sermon bumper videos and
(06:39):
testimony videos and things likethat.
And then it quickly got towhere, like, I couldn't keep up
by myself.
And now, to be honest, I rarelydo, I still dabble a little bit
, but now it's mainly runningthe business and kind of
overseeing as opposed toactually getting in the dirt.
And yeah, my, my, uh, my Adobesuite's probably a couple of
(06:59):
versions behind.
I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I mean as it should be.
As you grow a business and youknow you guys expand and you,
you know, give yourself theability to serve more churches,
um, but it's so 15 years ago.
You're doing, uh, announcementvideos and some sermon bumper
stuff and things like that.
Like, what are you guys doingtoday?
Like how has it changed?
(07:23):
Or has it changed much, uh, inthat sense, over 15 years?
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, I would say church announcement videos
aren't as big of a thing.
In fact, we kind of talk tochurches that are considering
that and going, is this the mostbang for your buck?
Like, are people watching this,or could you spend your money
on life change story videos?
Or or could you spend yourmoney on life change story
videos, or you know things likethat that would be a really big
impact for you.
(07:49):
So now we do a lot of what we.
We serve the church with readymade media, which is like pre
pre made stuff many movies andseries, kits and things like
that, and then custom media.
We serve a lot of churches butwe also serve a lot of really
large ministries.
So folks like Awana or Answersin Genesis or Outreach or you
(08:12):
guys that are doing largerthings, so like, for instance,
answers in Genesis, we've workedon their VBS for the last
probably seven, eight yearsbuilding out lyric videos and
graphics for units and dramavideos and Bible animated Bible
story videos and all of thatkind of stuff.
(08:34):
So, yeah, multiple curriculumsand multiple like big, huge kits
or big, big build outs, thatsort of thing.
Smaller churches as well orsmaller, you know, single
projects as well, but that's alot of what we do.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Why does this stuff like matter?
Like maybe go back to theorigin of it, you know, but like
a lot of churches, I don'tthink think about marketing and
think about the types of piecesof marketing.
You know, um, obviouslychurches are trying to, you know
(09:10):
, get people to come in thedoors and, you know, hear the
gospel and get into the bibleand get into, you know,
community and hear about jesusand all that right, like that's
a thing and, uh, you know howthey do.
It has changed over the yearsand, like the visual and the
online aspect of it is a bigdeal nowadays.
But I'm just not sure if a lotof churches think about it, uh,
(09:34):
or even think about marketing.
You know, sometimes you hearpeople talk about marketing in a
negative way, uh, associatedwith kind of the church and
whatnot.
So yeah, what's your take Likewhy does this stuff matter and
what's it all about?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Man, I would say your visuals matter and you hit on
this.
Your visuals matter because thegospel matters.
If we're and I'll get to kindof a marketing some marketing
stats for you, but we create, wepartner with churches and
ministries to not to entertainyour audience, that is not what
(10:06):
we're about.
You can find, you know, highquality stuff in other places or
you can we partner with you tohelp you visually communicate
the gospel.
I only hire believers.
I don't really go like a Upworkor Fiverr route Not that those
(10:26):
things are, you know, not bad incertain instances, but I, you
know it's not like you know, I'mhiring an international team
that's going to do it forcheaper and then I'm pocketing
the money.
That's not.
I mean, I'm not saying thatthat's the case always, but I'm
(10:47):
just saying we only hirebelievers that are all about the
church, that are all abouthelping you, as the ministry
leader, communicate the gospel.
Because if we put a videotogether like, you have to have
the Holy Spirit in you to knownot only how to kind of script
that but also the visualcomponents of how to tell that
(11:09):
story.
If you're not versed in theBible and not really following
Jesus, the visuals are going tocome out a little wonky and you
can kind of tell whether that'sa denominational thing.
I'll give you a practicalexample.
If I see a Mary with a halo ora baby Jesus with a halo, I know
(11:31):
that that's more of a Catholicbent, not to say that some
Catholics aren't Christians.
But I'm just saying thatthere's a bit that we serve kind
of a certain denomination.
We probably kind of stay in the, in the Baptist, methodist,
more, um, assemblies of God,those kind of mainstream uh
(11:55):
denominations that, like you canjust kind of tell how we're
crafting the story, if thatmakes sense, uh, and so you kind
of have to have the Holy Spirit.
So there's that From amarketing aspect.
I'll give you a couple of stats.
So millennials is a bigquestion that I get at.
How do we reach more youngfamilies, millennials, to bring
them in?
(12:15):
Because our church is trying togrow.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Millennials are old now we're old.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
That's true.
That's true, that's true.
How do we reach the nextgeneration?
True, that's true.
How do we reach the nextgeneration?
That's probably a betterquestion.
And millennials, especiallythough let's pick on them for a
second Make a purchasingdecision.
This is in the secularmarketing market 85% of
(12:43):
millennials will make apurchasing decision based on
watching a video.
Now, is the Holy Spirit aproduct that we're trying to
sell?
No, not really.
That's not what I'm saying.
I am saying, though, that ifyou want to reach younger people
, the stats on using video arethrough the roof.
I mean, the video consumptionis crazy.
Through the roof.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Video, video, video is the way to go crazy through
the roof, right, video, video,video is the way to go.
I mean, if you're not, you'dhave to have your head under a
rock and not be paying attentionto the fact that you know
instagram and tiktok and youtubeshorts video, that's where
people spend all their time.
Maybe facebook, right.
Kind of video reels now right,but, like, the video content on
(13:24):
those platforms is what you know, all the young people and not
even just young people.
I mean, it's going to everyonenow, but, yeah, young people,
short form videos where it's at.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know we, yes, on social, definitely In our
churches, though I am kind ofsurprised because the stats are.
I mean, I do a workshop where Ikind of go through the stats on
this and you know if apicture's worth a thousand words
, right?
Well, there's actually anargument that the stats show
(13:59):
that our brain processes visualmedia 60,000 times faster than
text.
So we're understanding a visual60,000 times faster than
reading a word or hearing a word.
And that makes me think, likeman, we're really talking a lot.
Our pastors are not that Idon't love a good sermon.
(14:20):
Our pastors are not that Idon't love a good sermon, but 30
to 40 minutes of every singleSunday is you talking and me
listening, with very littlevisual content.
To help me understand that, ifyou were to add more visual
media, I think that the chancesof that gospel sticking more
would be a lot greater for you.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's a great point.
I don't know the stats on it,but I'm assuming, even if you
looked into it right.
Like we know, different peoplelearn in different ways and some
people learn by reading, somepeople learn by writing, some
people learn by watching, somepeople learn by doing.
There's like lots of forms ofpeople learning and so if you
(15:05):
walk into any church you'regoing to get that whole spectrum
.
So it just makes sense thatyou're trying to kind of
incorporate, like all of thoseelements, and visual and media
being a big part of it.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Right, yeah.
So I just took my family on avacation to Universal Studios
and some of the coolest rideswere those that that hit all my
senses, right the Spider-Mansand the Transformers and stuff
like that.
That, like, I'm, my body'sbeing moved.
You're you're, you're engagingme visually like crazy.
(15:42):
I'm wearing 3D glasses.
You're, you're engaging mevisually like crazy, I'm wearing
3d glasses.
You're spraying water at me.
You're spraying the wind at me.
You know it's, it's, it's veryimmersive and I knew what to
tell you.
Right, like I.
Spider-man and transformers,right like.
Those are the ones that Iremember the most because they
engaged.
Where am I?
I think there's an argument forthat Like, engage.
(16:04):
There's a lot of people thatthat uh, learn visually and uh
and process visually, and soeven a, even a picture or a
video or something like thatwould on social media and in
your worship experiences, would,would go a long way.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I mean I can't wait to see the church that
introduces wind and watermisting into the seats to go
along with the preaching.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Or zappers or like vibrating.
Yeah, the seats move.
It's one of those.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh my gosh, that would be crazy we did universal
uh a year or so ago and uh, itwas awesome.
I remember I don't rememberspider-man, but I remember
transformers for sure.
Yeah uh, the kids love that oneyep yeah, it's good times, but
are you guys doing much on thesocial media side of things with
churches are?
Do you get asked about it a lot?
(17:03):
Are people curious on how to dowell over there?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, they are.
I think we do get a good chunk.
But I would say that there area lot of AI tools out there,
that instead of reinventing thatwheel we usually partner with
churchtech or with a.
I know you guys have some AItools or sermon shots.
You know my buddy Corey Aldrinover there.
(17:30):
You know folks like that aredoing some really interesting
things in the space.
When it comes to sermon clipsand kind of clipping up your
thing, your longer form piece,that I mean that's probably a
route that I would go.
I mean we're glad to do it, butI would probably go that route.
(17:50):
When it comes to your clips,what we usually do is like a
longer story and then clip thatup into bits.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Okay, Got it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
They have us do a, a church has us do a promo video
or a or a testimony video orsomething like that, and we we
can chop it up into smallerRight, and we would.
I would highly suggest that,like, if you're going to, you're
going to spend the money oncustom media, get as much legs
out of that thing as possible.
You know, put it, put it, putit, air it on your worship
(18:22):
experience, put it in yourcountdown, put it pre-service,
put it on social mediaeverywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Right, People aren't going to remember it If you're
going to spend money uh on, uhputting on a Sunday service and
having someone preach and thenmaybe having visuals go along
with, like their sermon on ascreen and maybe that's got
pictures, maybe it's got video,maybe it's got testimony, like
(18:48):
all of that, like that wholething is a big piece of content
that can be like chopped.
I mean, that's the beauty ofthese like sermon clip kind of
platforms right, they can helpyou extend that sunday sermon
onto social and you know, evenout like just direct to your
members throughout the week.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know it doesn't have to just be on social, but
in your newsletter, on yourwebsite, all those kinds of
places, just make sense and Ithink you bring up a good point
that I think that churches needa mixture of produced pieces and
raw pieces.
What I mean by that is, likeyour sermon bumper, your promo
video.
(19:27):
That probably needs to be moreproduced from a team like us.
Your daily devotion from thepastor's office I'm going to
expound on my sermon.
That needs to be your iPhonefrom your desk and put on social
.
Have a mixture of those thingson your platform.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I totally think more pastors, church leaders, should
do that kind of thing Right,like do the daily or weekly or
you know whatever, likedevotional type of thought or
like something where you justbust out your iPhone and you,
yeah, you can script it, you canthink about it, you can kind of
(20:07):
have something, but, like youknow, just bust it out and then
post it on your socials and yourcongregation, like the people
who are, you know, going to yourchurch, want to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And I would say take your 40-minute message that
you're used to preaching andshave 10 minutes off of it.
Let that 10 minutes of contentbe your social media content for
the rest of the week.
Like plan for it.
You're already writing it.
(20:40):
I've written five points, fourof them we're going to talk
about on Sunday.
I'm going to give you the fifthpoint this week.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I love that idea.
That's such a good idea and youcould build from there like, oh
, you're going to get the fifthpoint on Monday or then maybe on
Tuesday.
It's like we're going to talkabout the small group discussion
format based on it.
I'm going to share a couple ofpoints.
I'm leading a great small groupbased on the topic this week
(21:08):
and you know you could kind ofbuild on where, yeah, two, three
, four, five days after thesermon, you have things that are
just coming from the sermon.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
So you could do it live, which would be awesome, or
you could sit down on a Sundayafternoon, record five of them
and hand them off to your team,right?
And there's your reels one aday for the next five days,
right.
You know, that's how I shootour podcast.
My podcast is I shoot in bothLike that's the only way I can
(21:41):
survive.
Right Is is is batch, batchstuff.
So you know, I mean you can golive intermittently but like
produce bat, you know batchesworth of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
right, that's fine yeah, totally north coast.
Uh, a big church in town.
They do like the dailydevotional um, I'm forgetting
the name of it right now, butthey'll, you know I'm almost
certain they produce them inbatches related to the sermon
series that's going on.
They have a bunch of differentpastors from the church kind of
take theirs.
(22:15):
You know, okay, you're gonna dothe next five.
You're gonna do the next fiveyeah, and they send out, you
know, every day, throughout theweek.
Um, they use their app, theysend the push notification.
I'm sure it goes out via textand email too, but they do a
great job with it and I thinkit's such a great.
I saw that, you know, a fewyears back.
I'm like it's a great ideabecause it's like daily content
(22:36):
from the church and they're ableto do it on a big budget, big
church.
But you know, it doesn't haveto be done like that.
It literally can be done justwith your iPhone and and some
foresight into what you want todo, right and kind of thinking
about it, and once you've doneit a couple of weeks in a row,
it'll just be like clockworkbecause you know you'd be
comfortable at all.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Get into a rhythm of doing it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I thinkthat you know, with the, with AI
, with your phone, there's a lotmore tools now obviously to use
.
Yeah, I still think therealways will be a need for a
person, a creative.
You know creatives in the mixthere needs to be, you know, if
(23:18):
AI is a robot, there needs to besomebody programming the robot,
training the robot, telling itwhat.
This is our voice, this is ourbrand, this is how we talk, this
is our theology, this is ouryou gotta.
There always will be humansinvolved to craft, uh, that, um,
so yeah, yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
what's your?
I don't know how I can'ttangent on AI, for you?
Yeah, no, I mean, you broughtit up.
So what?
What tools?
You mentioned a few.
Are there any others thatyou're like, oh man, we're using
these, you know, at my firm oryou're seeing churches use them,
or you're hearing pastors talkabout them, like what?
What kind of AI stuff is outthere in the wild?
Ai stuff is out there in thewild.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Man.
I think that I don't think thata lot of churches have fully
embraced it.
I think some have.
I mean your mid journey, yourLeonardo, your, your ideogram,
your chat, gpt obviously youryour thing, things like that are
definitely out there.
(24:22):
I think that the biggest andchurches are using those.
I do think that there's stillsome learning of prompts,
learning how to do this, andthen it doesn't do text right,
which floors me.
I don't understand how AI can'tdo text.
Well, you can scour theInternet and come up with you
(24:46):
know, I want to picture an imageof Tom Hanks and it's going to
scour the Internet of all theseTom Hanks and give you Tom Hanks
.
But I can't write, you knowhello, which is hilarious to me,
but when AI can do text, it's.
I think it's going to beanother big game changer.
But but I mean, church tech isa is a big tool that that we're
(25:13):
partnering with now, that thatis used a lot for sermon prep,
and so you know, you can put allyour information in there.
You guys have a tool as well,right?
I think you do.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, we did a little.
You know, yeah, we did a littleside project.
It's called sermonly.
There's another one that's kindof gaining steam, called
pulpitai, I think.
I think they're doing some coolstuff over there, yeah, but
yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
The next step in that and I'll kind of peel back the
curtain a little bit for peopleis to integrate media content
with those types of tools.
Right, that's what we'reworking on now is how do you
move from a sermonly or achurchtech where I'm crafting my
(26:07):
sermon and my sermon series andthen now it's auto-populated
with all the imagery that I canuse for my sermon Right, based
on my content that I'm trainingmy robot to put out?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, like it's kind of taking the outline you've
written and it's taking maybethe key verse and your key
points and some of the you knowthings Again, just taking your
outline and it's like, oh,you're doing a sermon and like
you're using scripture aboutMoses and so I'm going to give
you some visuals, correct kindof go together, you know that's
right they may be good or bad,but you get to choose.
But we're going to surface somestuff for you, uh, to go along
(26:50):
with you.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right, yeah that's what we're working on now
is yeah, can I put in I'm doingthe gospel of mark.
Here's my passages, here's a dada da, and we, like from our
library, we've already done 17series on Mark.
We're going to give you all ofthese pieces that you could pull
in and now you know isintegrated together.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think you're going to see more and more of that.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like all the this piece works with.
This piece now works with thispiece.
Like you know, I think you'regoing to start to see all that
kind of come together, right,but man, lightning speed, how
fast the AI.
You know, I think you're goingto start to see all that kind of
come together, right, um, butman, lightning speed, how fast
the ai.
I you know, I, I, um, when I webuilt a new website last year
and I was in writing a coursethat I just couldn't finish, we
had other things on the plate.
(27:35):
That was an ai course so I'mstill kind of in the middle of
writing it, but I've had to goback and write it again and
write it again.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah you, you might as well scrap it.
Just start over from thebeginning.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I know right, Because it's hilarious how fast stuff's
moving.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Are there any tools that you guys are using at your
agency, like?
What kind?
Of AI tools or exploring maybeLike what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So we've used MidJourney, we've used oh shoot,
uh, runway.
Ml is another tool that we'veused.
Uh, we have toyed with some aivoice work.
Uh, man, that that that getskind of scary, especially like
hey, jen, and places like thatthat.
(28:21):
Um, I put in one thing where,like, I used my, my podcast and
I put in clips from my podcastas a reference point, right, and
it spit back out a video and Iput it in a script and it spit
back out a video of me sayingthat script with my mouth moving
to the script scary, so you putit I never, I didn't shoot that
(28:46):
at all.
Right, I didn't say that, any ofthat, but it I mean it was kind
of clunky, but like I'm likeman, the next step or the next
step on this is gonna be rightfreaky so you took like a bunch
of youtube urls, popped them into feed it and then said here's
the script.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Have the you know, put it together, boom, and it
was like here's my right in thisstudio.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
so it knew my, the studio and it's, you know,
trained on me and then trainedon my mouth and then went to the
script and change, you know,made me talk those, those words
in my voice.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
That's crazy, I don't even want to do that, and then
I could go translate to Spanish.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
That's where we're going to get to.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I've been hearing from different pastors mostly
big churches talking about thetranslation thing.
You know like, take my YouTubevideo, the sermon from last week
, translate it into 50 differentlanguages.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I think that's going to be fun?
Yeah, totally.
That's where I think we can usethe tool to our advantage.
I do think I mean, you have tobe very careful.
We haven't like gone full boreinto creating a bunch of
graphics or video content usingAI simply because of the legal
end.
(30:07):
I mean, obviously, just likeyou guys, like we want to
operate with as much integrityas possible, right, and there's
just so many questionssurrounding it right now still,
that it's kind of hard to like.
Do we want to go full bore?
Right?
When is it legal?
Go full bore Right?
When is it legal to do this?
Yeah, especially when like GettyGetty's being sued and you know
(30:30):
, I mean I'm like we've done afew things.
We did this really cool um,like this fantasy uh author uh
has a group of of books that wedid some pro promotional um like
trailers for Right.
Um, it was really neat Cause weuse this, uh, we used runway ML
(30:51):
and some other tools andcreated like an AI world of
these fantasy dragons and stuff,kind of like Narnia meets Lord
of the Rings kind of thing,right, which was neat because
the studio saw it and now she'sunder contract with you know and
like could be a TV show ormovie.
That's so cool so it's neat, butit's also like, ah, how much,
(31:11):
how, how much do we want to takethe human element out of the
mix?
You know, right, yeah, I thinkwe just got to kind of pick and
choose those projects.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, it goes back to your point earlier.
I mean, you, you know you stillneed the thinker and the, the
human, and in our context, youknow, the, the Christian filled
with the spirit, who is, youknow, bringing that to the whole
thing.
You know, like I, that thatcan't go away.
(31:44):
It's like the day that goesaway, like then we, then
everything is gonna get weirdright.
So absolutely true, yeah,absolutely we could talk ai for
a bit.
What, what I guess you know,just so we don't take all day
here.
What?
What are you guys thinkingabout next?
Are you thinking mostly AIstuff?
Are you?
Are there new things emergingwith church marketing, church
(32:05):
visuals that you're you knowgetting into more?
Like where are we headed?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
company we're headed to.
I think the I hate to be kindof political, but the like the,
the economy landscape is is in amuch different place right now.
And so I think that churchesare constantly looking for yes,
we want to enhance our visualmedia, but we want it as cheap
as possible.
Uh, so I'll always kind of say,like you, you, like you know, I
think churches are after like aRuth's Chris experience on a
(32:40):
McDonald's budget, and so how dowe get there?
So I've kind of fought that fora while, that like, hey, you
know, you're trying to dosomething that's over your
budget.
Well, instead of fighting it,we've kind of leaned into it and
said, ok, how can we do this?
And so we've.
We just launched some custommedia plans that include our
(33:01):
library, that include ourtraining, to just try to make it
affordable for the church.
Because I mean, either churchesare seeing creative staff stay
for under three years is thegoing rate.
I mean they're not staying longfor under three years is the
going rate.
I mean they're not staying long.
So how?
And they're like, man, wereally need a graphics guy and a
(33:23):
video guy and that.
So how can we afford that?
And so we're trying to kind ofcome into the market and say
what if we did all of it for youfor less than a part-timer?
And it's really high quality?
So we're trying hard to do that.
So that's where we're headed asa company is to make high
(33:47):
quality visual media affordablefor a church of any any size.
Right, I would say kind of thenext iteration of what we're I
mean AI is definitely, you know,on the radar.
I would say probably, to goback to the integration that's
probably some areas that we'reheaded down is how do we use AI
tools and visuals together?
Can those tools come togetherat all?
(34:10):
That's probably a big next stepthat we're about to take.
That gives you a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Well, I look forward to you doing your session on AI
at the conference in October.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, I'll have to rewrite it the night before I do
it, just to make sure.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Just do it the night before It'll be ready AI and
church visuals how they'remeeting together.
Do some cool demos of whatevernew product showed up the day
before, that's right.
And it's going to be fun.
Man, Do you have a topicthought out for the conference
in October?
Speaker 1 (34:44):
So I think one thing I'm really thinking about is
that why do your visuals matter?
Why should you use more visualmedia content in your worship
experiences and on social andjust kind of lay out the stats
for that and just kind of showpeople from from adults to
students to kids the stats onvideo.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
And you know if.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I hear it constantly of you know, either our church
is declining or we want to reachour community.
Shockingly, I've heard somerevert like, oh, we don't really
want to grow.
I'm like, well, you should bewanting to grow.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
In some way, like you know like we should all be
growing somehow.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Doesn't have to be, numerically Right, yeah, exactly
.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And so you know, I think the stats on video are
overwhelming in order to do that.
So that's what I'm kind ofpercolating right now.
But you know, we're a fewmonths off, so so we'll, we'll
see if I can.
We'll see if I can bring theheat.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, we got time.
What?
What uh as we wrap man, wherecan folks go to check out church
visuals?
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, Churchvisualscom is our website.
New website, brand new website.
Yeah, we rebranded last year sowe were 1230 media and so now
we're church visuals, and so werebranded to just kind of make
it simpler what we do and whatwe want to be known for, and
that is your visual mediacontent.
And so, yeah, churchvisualscom.
(36:19):
And then you know, just to kindof go back.
It's interesting that, like,we're not about helping you look
great or save time just for thesake of those things and the
more kind of pastors that we seewith moral failures and
congregations that are decliningand stuff like that.
And the gospel is so importantthat it's not about entertaining
(36:44):
people, it's about sharing thegospel with them, and so visual
media is a way to share thegospel where it will really
stick.
And so that's what our team isabout is kind of partnering,
getting in the trenches with andgetting down and dirty about
how can we be creative withvisual media so that you can
reach people for Jesus.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, so love that man, love what you guys do.
Huge fan and definitelyeverybody watching.
Come to Carl's session at theconference, but also go to
churchvisualscom and check outwhat they're up to.
Carl, closing words man, whereshould folks check you out?
Are you on the Insta?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, Carl Barnhill everywhere on social.
Man just I have to say partingwords.
Man, we love you guys, so weconnect a lot at conferences,
mutual friends and folks on yourteam and we do some custom
media work for you guys and justhave been great partners over
(37:47):
the years.
So love what you guys are doingand just kind of.
I know you guys are keepexpanding and keep coming out
with new tools, so it's it'sreally fun to be partnered with
uh with innovators uh, you know,let's look ahead.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So way to go, absolutely, man.
No, I appreciate that, alwaystrying to grow.
And uh, yeah, you've been agreat partner too.
I know Justin and the marketingteam on our side love working
with you guys.
It's been a blast.
And again, if you're watchingman, go check out Church Visuals
and that's a wrap.
So, carl, thanks for coming onthe show today.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Thanks, Frank.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Cool.
See you guys.
We'll check you out next weekon another episode of Modern
Church Leader.
Bye-bye.
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