January 18, 2024 • 22 mins
Hey MomCave Live listeners, get ready for a dose of wisdom wrapped in laughter as we welcome the incredible Dr. Frieda Birnbaum to the mic! Today, she's breaking down the nitty-gritty of coping with codependency, turning therapy into a comedy party where self-discovery meets giggles. So, buckle up for a rollercoaster of insights, laughs, and aha moments with the one and only Dr. Frieda, because who says unraveling emotional knots can't be a blast?
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Transcript:
Jen:
Welcome to MomCave LIVE where we may have lost our minds, but we haven't lost our senses of humor. And we haven't learned how to use technology as much as we should. I'm Jen and our guest tonight is Dr. Frieda. There she is. Hey, Dr. Frieda.
Dr. Frieda:
Hi, welcome. And I'm telling you I love your introduction, because it really takes me away. I love it. It's such a it's such a great scene and everybody gets together and argues and has conflict. And then they go and they're like the perfect little family. You know, we've
Jen:
Well, it's just because if you hear that, I slammed the door, the mom slams the door because she can't take anymore. We go in our mom cave. And sometimes that's the only way to get any quiet. Right.
Dr. Frieda:
A mom cave So that needs to be part of the housing theme.
Jen:
Right definitely. If you all haven't met Dr. Frieda, before she was on a previous episode we did which is fascinating. Because she's known as the oldest woman in America to have given birth to twins at age 60. So your superhero first of all, yeah....
To read more visit: https://www.momcavetv.com/codependency-how-to-cope-dr-frieda-momc
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (00:13):
Welcome to MomCave LIVE where we may
have lost our minds, but wehaven't lost our senses of
humor. And we haven't learnedhow to use technology as much as
we should. I'm Jen and our guesttonight is Dr. Frieda. There she
is. Hey, Dr. Frieda.
Dr. Frieda (00:27):
Hi, welcome. And I'm telling you I love your
introduction, because it reallytakes me away. I love it. It's
such a it's such a great sceneand everybody gets together and
argues and has conflict. Andthen they go and they're like
the perfect little family. Youknow, we've
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (00:42):
Well, it's just because if you hear
that, I slammed the door, themom slams the door because she
can't take anymore. We go in ourmom cave. And sometimes that's
the only way to get any quiet.
Right.
Dr. Frieda (00:52):
A mom cave So that needs to be part of the housing
theme.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (00:56):
Right definitely. If you all haven't
met Dr. Frieda, before she wason a previous episode we did
which is fascinating. Becauseshe's known as the oldest woman
in America to have given birthto twins at age 60. So your
superhero first of all, yeah.
But that's not we're going totalk about tonight. So go find
(01:16):
that if you want to hear aboutthat. But tonight in her
capacity as a therapist, apsychoanalyst, Dr. Frieda is
going to help us out on theissue of family dysfunction,
which we all have incodependency. So, first
question. It's a really simplequestion. I've always heard this
term codependent, what the heckdoes that actually mean?
Dr. Frieda (01:40):
You know I hate to say this, because most of us are
codependent on someone and itgets us into trouble. Because
then we complain that we'rebeing controlled. No, we're
starting it. We're asking more,especially women, I want you to
tell me what to do. What do youthink what, and then they
(02:00):
complain, I'm getting a divorce,you're controlling too much, I
can't say, well in fact, youstarted it. So we need to be
responsible for our behavior.
But basically, what it means isthat you don't have boundaries
that you feel you have to beresponsible for somebody else.
And again, we're going back togender identification. It all
(02:22):
starts when you're a child, wecan blame everything on our
parents and not takeresponsibility, which in a way
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (02:31):
It's all their fault. I think it's
all their fault.
Dr. Frieda (02:33):
It's all their fault. But you know, today we
can't even blame our mothersanymore, because they're saying
that fathers are the ones thatchildren really role model after
not the mother's so therapyneeds to change. Stop blaming
your mothers come in and blameyour father's
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (02:49):
Yes.
But once you become a parent,then you have a little more. I
least I do. I'm like, Oh, I'mgonna stop blaming them, because
somebody's gonna be blaming meeventually.
Dr. Frieda (02:59):
Oh, yes. But you know, the healthy part. And then
we'll get back to the topic isthat it is healthy to blame your
parents while you're with yourparents. So teenage rebellion is
actually good for you. Becauseotherwise you do end up going to
therapy because you haverepressed emotions. So my twins
will not need therapy, I assureyou,
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:18):
Neither will the 13 year old stomping
around upstairs at any moment.
Dr. Frieda (03:23):
I love it that's being in a natural environment.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:26):
Okay
Dr. Frieda (03:27):
So we're getting back to codependency
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:29):
Yes.
Dr. Frieda (03:30):
And what what is it all about? And I was saying
there's a lot of gender ID theway a young girl has been
brought up more in the past toserve. And then she grows up as
an adult and she serves. And ayoung boy is taught to go out
into the world and to provehimself. So he's not as
(03:50):
dependent as this girl who'ssaying here, am I good enough
I'm doing this I'm doing thatI'm serving. Today, hopefully,
research has shown that whenfathers look at their young
girls, or not, when they'reachieving puberty and getting
this attention, sexualattention, and supports their
(04:12):
athletic abilities, tennis,their grades and math and in
school, then we won't have thiscodependency issue as much,
basically with women and youknow, 60% of students guess
what, in college are females. Sothat's a Yeah, so that's really
changing. So as women are moreeducated, have more higher
(04:36):
status careers, they're going tobe more independent, and
relationships will be equal. Sowe're brought up to feel guilty.
We're brought up to feel thatGod forbid if we do anything,
that if the person is going tofall apart and die without us.
Then the other stage of it isthere's this red flag that these
(04:59):
people manipulate like you totake care of them. So, you know,
the topic lately has beengaslighting, and, you know, with
therapy, whatever. And thesepeople gaslight you, they're not
they're narcissistic and theywant you to take care of them
then wants to be selfless,selfless, so they're not so
innocent in this. And we allfind our familiar territory. So
(05:20):
we often marry someone, we endedup with somebody similar to who
we had as an opposite sexparent. And we said, Okay, I
couldn't do anything about that,then I was a child, they with
authority, now, here's mychance, I'm going to do it. So
then we repeat the same thing,we're stuck with the same thing
again, and we don't know how toget out of it. Because we feel
(05:41):
that something horrible, ifwe're not responsible, and take
over that that person is notcapable of doing it. So we lose
our sense of self, our selfesteem, we lose our direction of
who we want to be what we wantto be, I'm looking at myself,
Wow, what a mess. But you know,they say, basically, that's
(06:06):
really, that that really defineswhat you are, who you are. So
don't pick a partner that you'regoing to try to fix and make up
for what you didn't have as achild. And that's something so
common, and we do it on anunconscious level. And we spend
the rest of our lives trying tomake that difference with that
(06:29):
person would never ask for it.
And I blame them for all thethings that happened to us
before, who they had no ideaabout.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (06:37):
And they're doing the same to us. So
it's just a big mess.
Dr. Frieda (06:41):
That's true. You know, who you are, at the end of
the day, you're trying tounwind, complain about
whatever's going on. And thenyou're caught, as you saying, in
this web, of back and forth ofthis familiar feeling. That's
not that dysfunctional, butcomfortable for you. Comfort and
(07:01):
dysfunction, because it goesback to something that you know
that there's a fit for you. Andoften if somebody has it all
going and is emotionallyhealthy, you may feel
threatened, that you won't begood enough that that person is
more evolved than us in a betterplace than you won't want to
(07:25):
take you along. And so, as yousaid, it's this web and that
other person that actually keepsyou in bondage, which means that
they don't remember when they'reacting out. They don't remember
when they're doing anythingselfish, they won't go to
therapy, because of course, theydon't want to change, why would
they want to go to therapy. Andso all this, you're the one
(07:48):
that's making it up, it's yourproblem. But after a while,
people say you don't, you're notjust the same, you don't look
the same, you don't act thesame, and you lose concept of
who you are, and your friendsand you're relatives, because
the person you're with does notreally want you to be with your
friends and relatives, becausethen they can't manipulate you
the same way. So you're caughthere. And it's very, very scary
(08:13):
when you're in this situation.
Because guess what, you end upfinding somebody like that
again. And then you wonder, whyis it I meet the wrong people
all the time. And you can't bewith somebody, if you feel that
that person is going to be allof you, because that person
knows that and takes advantageof it. Because you're very
needy, if you're with somebodywho is part of you, because you
(08:36):
already have your life going,you're ready accomplished,
you're ready in a good place. Ifyou find you know that when
you're in a good place,everybody wants to be part of
you. If you need somebody, whenyou really need somebody, then
they back off. Just when youreally need them, then you don't
get what you really want. Sothis is you know, the rules of
(08:57):
life, we do this in such a waythat is not, we don't think
through just acting acting itthrough. So you need to start
with a place of yourself, alwaysa place of youth finding out and
the little time you spent onyou, you'll see that you're
(09:18):
making much more of adifference, and you'll be less
codependent and another person.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (09:27):
So you made the great point that of
course, what would solveeverything is if we didn't
choose this person in the firstplace. But assuming we did
choose a person that we havethis unhealthy relationship with
and we're not wanting to not bearound that person. What can we
do?
Dr. Frieda (09:46):
You know, this is very difficult to do because
when you're so committed to thisrole model, it's like losing a
sense of yourself. It's likesaying, I am not going to
identify with who I've been allmy life. And that's very scary.
Will you be dropped, will you bealone, the rest of your life
would nobody want you becauseyou're not going to be true to
(10:07):
the image that you've been setup to be. So that dependency
issue becomes something thatgets you stuck. Now, the only
way to really do that is to,it's like taking a plunge a cold
plunge, and to go cold turkeyand say, Okay, I'm going to do
this, it's going to be painful,I'm not going to be happy. And
(10:28):
I'm really going to want to goback to that other place
automatically. It's like, holdme back, because I'm coming
through again, don't do that,don't go over there. And after a
while, you'll start feeling whatit is like to feel healthy.
Because the problem is thesepeople don't know what the basic
(10:49):
core feeling of healthy isanyway. So they're just used to
that. And once they get thatsense of what that means, then
they start looking for someonewho is more like that person,
they become a relationship. And,you know, we're talking about
codependency, not only in arelationship, but we're talking
(11:09):
about codependency at work aswell, you have to be careful
that the people that you are,you know, socializing with, they
don't know too much about younot to be too vulnerable.
Because you wouldn't have apowerful image. You want people
to listen to you. If they hearyour weak point, they're gonna
walk away, you're going toforget what you said, they're
(11:31):
going to remember everything. Sobe very careful about
friendships at work, don't, youknow, muddle the line? What your
responsibilities are, becauseafter a while, when
responsibilities are set up, andyou say, Oh, well, what's good
for you and what isn't, you wantto have what makes you happy,
(11:53):
you'll be left in the dark,you'll have resentment. And that
business relationship will alsobe affected and dwindle because
of it. So you have to reallyknow where to set boundaries for
work as well.
Yeah. And so well, we've talkedabout romantic relationships.
We've talked about workrelationships, what about parent
(12:14):
child relationships? How do younavigate a sort of codependent,
parent-child relationship?
That's very difficult, becauseyou have to think about what
does it mean to be a goodparent? Do you have qualities
where the child is the one thattells you what they need? And go
(12:36):
ahead and follow through? Orshould you be a helicopter
parent authoritative and makeall the decisions and I'm the
one in charge and the bottomline is me. But the healthiest
way to be is to have the childbe supported for what they want,
and direct it in a healthymanner. So creates independence,
(13:00):
not codependency where thatchild has confidence and making
decisions. Because the scarypart is if they don't, other
people will be making it forthem. That's not necessarily a
good thing. So that's really forcodependency to have an
independent child. Actually,helicopter parenting makes a
very dependent child.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (13:21):
Yes
Dr. Frieda (13:22):
Because the child can't do anything, you know,
reminds me when my kids were inelementary school, and they had
to do some kind of boardbillboard or something of
something that looked the wholething looked great. It looked
horrible. But they did it. Itook it to school. And I said,
God, will they even know whatthis is? And then everybody's,
everybody came with somethinglike a professional artist did
(13:44):
it? And I guess they did hireprofessional artists? I can't
believe is that because theseparents were competing against
each other? So how are thesekids going to do any
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (13:54):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (13:55):
How are these kids going to learn anything or grow?
Because that's what when weoverdo it. So you can't just say
it's all yours, because that'sreally lazy parenting. But I
liked what I was listening to,that they're screaming and the
husband saying and all the dogsbarking, and all that stuff. But
(14:15):
you know what I like about thebeginning of your segment,
believe it or not, is iteverybody has a voice?
Everybody's ah think about it
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (14:23):
We have some loud voices in this family.
Dr. Frieda (14:26):
We think about this, you know, perfect family, you
know, there's a problem brewingunder there if there's a perfect
family, because life has issues.
And there's always going to besomething somebody said
something something happened,you didn't do well, whatever
that is that we get botheredabout that we forget about
anyway. So I love that becausethat's a slice of life. And when
you can be that person and speakup, then there aren't
(14:50):
codependency issues, becauseeverybody has a voice, no matter
how difficult it is now my sonwhen he was fixing this That's a
good thing. You didn't hear whathe was saying. I said, You
better watch what you're saying.
I hear you. They're really gonnathink I'm incompetent with this
stuff, which I am. So, you know,it's like,
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (15:10):
Even an expert has parenting struggles,
Dr. Frieda (15:14):
are you kidding me?
When they come to my office? Hewill tell them, why are you
coming to see her she doesn'tknow what she's doing. So he
speaks up. But you know, it allcomes trickles back to who you
are, and how you integratewhat's happening to you, and
knowing the truth about it. Andso when we get to codependency,
it's, it's really about havingthe ability to give through your
(15:38):
own wisdom, through your ownknowledge, and then people will
really grow. But if you give,because of their need and
neediness, their victimization,their inadequacies, how far can
you really go, you're startingvery, very low. And then what
happens with that therelationship becomes one where
(16:01):
that Vic so called victim makesyou more of a victim, because
you're prey to what it is.
They're neat. They're the onesthat are getting taken care of.
And you're left alone, andyou're not the one. So don't
think, because if you'recodependent and you're giving
(16:21):
because you feel guilty or fearof something's happening to that
person. Don't think that you'redoing anything that that person
really needs you for. Whatyou're really doing is stripping
yourself up having up speakingof stripping yourself, I told my
husband I have a show now this
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:41):
And he doesn't silence the phone never.
Dr. Frieda (16:43):
Is this smart or what?
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:45):
That's quite okay. Okay, we're
Dr. Frieda (16:47):
We've been married for a long time this is it. It's
over.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:51):
Okay, I was gonna ask you how do you
know when it's over? It's whenthe phone rings and you're on a
zoom
Dr. Frieda (16:55):
Phone rings. When you know that you know when you
have. It's interesting, becauseI love what I do. And the reason
what are the reasons I love it,because he will not bother me.
I'm on this show. I'm on apodcast. I'm on the radio leave.
Wow, he goes, I'm finally heard.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:13):
How long have you been married? Dr.
Frieda?
Dr. Frieda (17:15):
How long? Do you think I've been married? And
don't look at the way I lookedat it. Oh my god, all these a
lotta work
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:23):
30 years? 50? Oh, my goodness.
That's a whole other topic. 50years.
Dr. Frieda (17:29):
That's another topic.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:30):
That's amazing.
Dr. Frieda (17:30):
Thats another live
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:31):
Yeah, but
Dr. Frieda (17:32):
Guess what? I'm going to interrupt you
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:34):
Yes.
Dr. Frieda (17:36):
If you keep growing, and you keep changing, because
that's what life should be.
Otherwise, what do the yearsmean anyway? It's like a drop in
the bucket. It's like
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:47):
Really
Dr. Frieda (17:48):
Because you keep evolving, and you keep changing.
I'm not the same person he met.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:52):
No
Dr. Frieda (17:53):
When I was in my 20s.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:56):
Yeah, I made a tictok once, and a lot of
people disagreed with it. I'vebeen married 20 years now. And I
said, No,
Dr. Frieda (18:05):
Think of me and don't be afraid of that number
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (18:07):
Okay.
But you know how people willsay, Well, we're breaking up
because we're not the samepeople anymore. And I'm like,
How can you be if you meetsomeone, when you're one age,
and it's 20 years later, youbetter be different people. And
that's the challenge is learninghow to keep being different
people together. It's that's thetough part.
Dr. Frieda (18:27):
Do you know the truth is that the double
standards of 50s and 60s, maybeeven were very boring. And men
had their own separate life.
They were unfaithful, they werebored. Because women stayed at
home and waited for the man tocome home and bring excitement.
So who wants to be with somebodywho's waiting for you to bring
something you want somebody toshare the excitement, it's two
(18:49):
people bringing joy togetherthan one person being
responsible. So it really wasn'tgreat for the man either, that
the man had the responsibility,not only financially, but to
keep everything afloat, to makegood decisions. Even if a child
wasn't behaving, they would say,I'm going to tell your dad, I'm
going to tell your father, whenhe comes home watch, the poor
(19:12):
guy had to do everything. Andthen on top of that, we blame
them for everything too was alltheir faults. So you know, when
we're looking at really how menand women behave, and what a
healthy relationship is, youneed to change. It's the
opposite of what your friendsaid, you need to change to make
(19:32):
it exciting. And you need tosometimes even take turns when
one partner is doing something.
I put my husband through lawschool and we were married. He
helped me with my career afterthat after he became an
attorney, because at my time, itwas you know, when are you
having children or not? What areyou doing?
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (19:52):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (19:54):
You my father and mother would say when you marry
somebody that's when you'll havea life till then no life no
nothing. It depends what yourhusband does. So you know, but I
was jealous. I said, What aboutme? I'm going to stay home. And
I remember one scene I'm home.
And I'm, I have the baby, myfirst child. And with the food
in the jar, baby food.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (20:18):
Yeah.
Dr. Frieda (20:18):
And he has a three piece suit on, he's wearing his
out to shake case, ready to goto work, and I'm jealous. You
know, I'm eating baby food.
Well, he's going to have lunchwith his friends and have a good
time. So I said, Wait a minute.
This has to stop. I'm gonna goin a whole different direction.
And which I did, I'm happy. ButI wasn't called to get back into
(20:40):
it.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (20:41):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (20:42):
Unraveling stuff. I wasn't codependent. And I wasn't
looking to be liked by him. Isaid to myself, I have to have a
life. If he fits into it. Ratherthan me fitting into his life,
then this has a chance. And eversince that has been fitting into
my life, with everything I'vebeen doing, and proud and
(21:02):
supportive. And so it's fun.
It's really a lot of fun.
Because you can't be threatenedwhat the other person's doing.
Now I'm thinking of a show idea.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (21:13):
That's another one we've got to work
on. Well, it sounds like youyou've you found a way to make
make yourself happy while stillbeing a great mom and still
being you know, a partner. Thatcould be negosh. It's about
negotiation. I feel a lot ofnegotiation in marriage.
Dr. Frieda (21:32):
For sure. We're selfish. We have to have it all.
You know, we're not greedy. It'sjust that if you don't have one
another part is missing. I'lllet you talk.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (21:39):
That's true. No, I could talk to you
all night. But of course I hearrunning around teenager
upstairs. Some. I want everybodyto check out Dr. Freda. She has
her own podcast. She's written abunch of a couple of books,
which I put in the comments. Andwe're gonna have to talk again,
because you always have suchinteresting insights. You can
(21:59):
continue to leave comments.
Dr. Frieda (22:02):
Next time. I promise you.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (22:04):
No worries. Thank you so much. Have
a great night.
Dr. Frieda (22:07):
My pleasure. Always a pleasure seeing you. You look
fabulous by the way.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (22:10):
Thanks you too. Bye. Bye. Bye,
everybody.
Welcome to MomCave LIVE where we may
have lost our minds, but wehaven't lost our senses of
humor. And we haven't learnedhow to use technology as much as
we should. I'm Jen and our guesttonight is Dr. Frieda. There she
is. Hey, Dr. Frieda.
Dr. Frieda (00:27):
Hi, welcome. And I'm telling you I love your
introduction, because it reallytakes me away. I love it. It's
such a it's such a great sceneand everybody gets together and
argues and has conflict. Andthen they go and they're like
the perfect little family. Youknow, we've
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (00:42):
Well, it's just because if you hear
that, I slammed the door, themom slams the door because she
can't take anymore. We go in ourmom cave. And sometimes that's
the only way to get any quiet.
Right.
Dr. Frieda (00:52):
A mom cave So that needs to be part of the housing
theme.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (00:56):
Right definitely. If you all haven't
met Dr. Frieda, before she wason a previous episode we did
which is fascinating. Becauseshe's known as the oldest woman
in America to have given birthto twins at age 60. So your
superhero first of all, yeah.
But that's not we're going totalk about tonight. So go find
(01:16):
that if you want to hear aboutthat. But tonight in her
capacity as a therapist, apsychoanalyst, Dr. Frieda is
going to help us out on theissue of family dysfunction,
which we all have incodependency. So, first
question. It's a really simplequestion. I've always heard this
term codependent, what the heckdoes that actually mean?
Dr. Frieda (01:40):
You know I hate to say this, because most of us are
codependent on someone and itgets us into trouble. Because
then we complain that we'rebeing controlled. No, we're
starting it. We're asking more,especially women, I want you to
tell me what to do. What do youthink what, and then they
(02:00):
complain, I'm getting a divorce,you're controlling too much, I
can't say, well in fact, youstarted it. So we need to be
responsible for our behavior.
But basically, what it means isthat you don't have boundaries
that you feel you have to beresponsible for somebody else.
And again, we're going back togender identification. It all
(02:22):
starts when you're a child, wecan blame everything on our
parents and not takeresponsibility, which in a way
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (02:31):
It's all their fault. I think it's
all their fault.
Dr. Frieda (02:33):
It's all their fault. But you know, today we
can't even blame our mothersanymore, because they're saying
that fathers are the ones thatchildren really role model after
not the mother's so therapyneeds to change. Stop blaming
your mothers come in and blameyour father's
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (02:49):
Yes.
But once you become a parent,then you have a little more. I
least I do. I'm like, Oh, I'mgonna stop blaming them, because
somebody's gonna be blaming meeventually.
Dr. Frieda (02:59):
Oh, yes. But you know, the healthy part. And then
we'll get back to the topic isthat it is healthy to blame your
parents while you're with yourparents. So teenage rebellion is
actually good for you. Becauseotherwise you do end up going to
therapy because you haverepressed emotions. So my twins
will not need therapy, I assureyou,
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:18):
Neither will the 13 year old stomping
around upstairs at any moment.
Dr. Frieda (03:23):
I love it that's being in a natural environment.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:26):
Okay
Dr. Frieda (03:27):
So we're getting back to codependency
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (03:29):
Yes.
Dr. Frieda (03:30):
And what what is it all about? And I was saying
there's a lot of gender ID theway a young girl has been
brought up more in the past toserve. And then she grows up as
an adult and she serves. And ayoung boy is taught to go out
into the world and to provehimself. So he's not as
(03:50):
dependent as this girl who'ssaying here, am I good enough
I'm doing this I'm doing thatI'm serving. Today, hopefully,
research has shown that whenfathers look at their young
girls, or not, when they'reachieving puberty and getting
this attention, sexualattention, and supports their
(04:12):
athletic abilities, tennis,their grades and math and in
school, then we won't have thiscodependency issue as much,
basically with women and youknow, 60% of students guess
what, in college are females. Sothat's a Yeah, so that's really
changing. So as women are moreeducated, have more higher
(04:36):
status careers, they're going tobe more independent, and
relationships will be equal. Sowe're brought up to feel guilty.
We're brought up to feel thatGod forbid if we do anything,
that if the person is going tofall apart and die without us.
Then the other stage of it isthere's this red flag that these
(04:59):
people manipulate like you totake care of them. So, you know,
the topic lately has beengaslighting, and, you know, with
therapy, whatever. And thesepeople gaslight you, they're not
they're narcissistic and theywant you to take care of them
then wants to be selfless,selfless, so they're not so
innocent in this. And we allfind our familiar territory. So
(05:20):
we often marry someone, we endedup with somebody similar to who
we had as an opposite sexparent. And we said, Okay, I
couldn't do anything about that,then I was a child, they with
authority, now, here's mychance, I'm going to do it. So
then we repeat the same thing,we're stuck with the same thing
again, and we don't know how toget out of it. Because we feel
(05:41):
that something horrible, ifwe're not responsible, and take
over that that person is notcapable of doing it. So we lose
our sense of self, our selfesteem, we lose our direction of
who we want to be what we wantto be, I'm looking at myself,
Wow, what a mess. But you know,they say, basically, that's
(06:06):
really, that that really defineswhat you are, who you are. So
don't pick a partner that you'regoing to try to fix and make up
for what you didn't have as achild. And that's something so
common, and we do it on anunconscious level. And we spend
the rest of our lives trying tomake that difference with that
(06:29):
person would never ask for it.
And I blame them for all thethings that happened to us
before, who they had no ideaabout.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (06:37):
And they're doing the same to us. So
it's just a big mess.
Dr. Frieda (06:41):
That's true. You know, who you are, at the end of
the day, you're trying tounwind, complain about
whatever's going on. And thenyou're caught, as you saying, in
this web, of back and forth ofthis familiar feeling. That's
not that dysfunctional, butcomfortable for you. Comfort and
(07:01):
dysfunction, because it goesback to something that you know
that there's a fit for you. Andoften if somebody has it all
going and is emotionallyhealthy, you may feel
threatened, that you won't begood enough that that person is
more evolved than us in a betterplace than you won't want to
(07:25):
take you along. And so, as yousaid, it's this web and that
other person that actually keepsyou in bondage, which means that
they don't remember when they'reacting out. They don't remember
when they're doing anythingselfish, they won't go to
therapy, because of course, theydon't want to change, why would
they want to go to therapy. Andso all this, you're the one
(07:48):
that's making it up, it's yourproblem. But after a while,
people say you don't, you're notjust the same, you don't look
the same, you don't act thesame, and you lose concept of
who you are, and your friendsand you're relatives, because
the person you're with does notreally want you to be with your
friends and relatives, becausethen they can't manipulate you
the same way. So you're caughthere. And it's very, very scary
(08:13):
when you're in this situation.
Because guess what, you end upfinding somebody like that
again. And then you wonder, whyis it I meet the wrong people
all the time. And you can't bewith somebody, if you feel that
that person is going to be allof you, because that person
knows that and takes advantageof it. Because you're very
needy, if you're with somebodywho is part of you, because you
(08:36):
already have your life going,you're ready accomplished,
you're ready in a good place. Ifyou find you know that when
you're in a good place,everybody wants to be part of
you. If you need somebody, whenyou really need somebody, then
they back off. Just when youreally need them, then you don't
get what you really want. Sothis is you know, the rules of
(08:57):
life, we do this in such a waythat is not, we don't think
through just acting acting itthrough. So you need to start
with a place of yourself, alwaysa place of youth finding out and
the little time you spent onyou, you'll see that you're
(09:18):
making much more of adifference, and you'll be less
codependent and another person.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (09:27):
So you made the great point that of
course, what would solveeverything is if we didn't
choose this person in the firstplace. But assuming we did
choose a person that we havethis unhealthy relationship with
and we're not wanting to not bearound that person. What can we
do?
Dr. Frieda (09:46):
You know, this is very difficult to do because
when you're so committed to thisrole model, it's like losing a
sense of yourself. It's likesaying, I am not going to
identify with who I've been allmy life. And that's very scary.
Will you be dropped, will you bealone, the rest of your life
would nobody want you becauseyou're not going to be true to
(10:07):
the image that you've been setup to be. So that dependency
issue becomes something thatgets you stuck. Now, the only
way to really do that is to,it's like taking a plunge a cold
plunge, and to go cold turkeyand say, Okay, I'm going to do
this, it's going to be painful,I'm not going to be happy. And
(10:28):
I'm really going to want to goback to that other place
automatically. It's like, holdme back, because I'm coming
through again, don't do that,don't go over there. And after a
while, you'll start feeling whatit is like to feel healthy.
Because the problem is thesepeople don't know what the basic
(10:49):
core feeling of healthy isanyway. So they're just used to
that. And once they get thatsense of what that means, then
they start looking for someonewho is more like that person,
they become a relationship. And,you know, we're talking about
codependency, not only in arelationship, but we're talking
(11:09):
about codependency at work aswell, you have to be careful
that the people that you are,you know, socializing with, they
don't know too much about younot to be too vulnerable.
Because you wouldn't have apowerful image. You want people
to listen to you. If they hearyour weak point, they're gonna
walk away, you're going toforget what you said, they're
(11:31):
going to remember everything. Sobe very careful about
friendships at work, don't, youknow, muddle the line? What your
responsibilities are, becauseafter a while, when
responsibilities are set up, andyou say, Oh, well, what's good
for you and what isn't, you wantto have what makes you happy,
(11:53):
you'll be left in the dark,you'll have resentment. And that
business relationship will alsobe affected and dwindle because
of it. So you have to reallyknow where to set boundaries for
work as well.
Yeah. And so well, we've talkedabout romantic relationships.
We've talked about workrelationships, what about parent
(12:14):
child relationships? How do younavigate a sort of codependent,
parent-child relationship?
That's very difficult, becauseyou have to think about what
does it mean to be a goodparent? Do you have qualities
where the child is the one thattells you what they need? And go
(12:36):
ahead and follow through? Orshould you be a helicopter
parent authoritative and makeall the decisions and I'm the
one in charge and the bottomline is me. But the healthiest
way to be is to have the childbe supported for what they want,
and direct it in a healthymanner. So creates independence,
(13:00):
not codependency where thatchild has confidence and making
decisions. Because the scarypart is if they don't, other
people will be making it forthem. That's not necessarily a
good thing. So that's really forcodependency to have an
independent child. Actually,helicopter parenting makes a
very dependent child.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (13:21):
Yes
Dr. Frieda (13:22):
Because the child can't do anything, you know,
reminds me when my kids were inelementary school, and they had
to do some kind of boardbillboard or something of
something that looked the wholething looked great. It looked
horrible. But they did it. Itook it to school. And I said,
God, will they even know whatthis is? And then everybody's,
everybody came with somethinglike a professional artist did
(13:44):
it? And I guess they did hireprofessional artists? I can't
believe is that because theseparents were competing against
each other? So how are thesekids going to do any
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (13:54):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (13:55):
How are these kids going to learn anything or grow?
Because that's what when weoverdo it. So you can't just say
it's all yours, because that'sreally lazy parenting. But I
liked what I was listening to,that they're screaming and the
husband saying and all the dogsbarking, and all that stuff. But
(14:15):
you know what I like about thebeginning of your segment,
believe it or not, is iteverybody has a voice?
Everybody's ah think about it
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (14:23):
We have some loud voices in this family.
Dr. Frieda (14:26):
We think about this, you know, perfect family, you
know, there's a problem brewingunder there if there's a perfect
family, because life has issues.
And there's always going to besomething somebody said
something something happened,you didn't do well, whatever
that is that we get botheredabout that we forget about
anyway. So I love that becausethat's a slice of life. And when
you can be that person and speakup, then there aren't
(14:50):
codependency issues, becauseeverybody has a voice, no matter
how difficult it is now my sonwhen he was fixing this That's a
good thing. You didn't hear whathe was saying. I said, You
better watch what you're saying.
I hear you. They're really gonnathink I'm incompetent with this
stuff, which I am. So, you know,it's like,
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (15:10):
Even an expert has parenting struggles,
Dr. Frieda (15:14):
are you kidding me?
When they come to my office? Hewill tell them, why are you
coming to see her she doesn'tknow what she's doing. So he
speaks up. But you know, it allcomes trickles back to who you
are, and how you integratewhat's happening to you, and
knowing the truth about it. Andso when we get to codependency,
it's, it's really about havingthe ability to give through your
(15:38):
own wisdom, through your ownknowledge, and then people will
really grow. But if you give,because of their need and
neediness, their victimization,their inadequacies, how far can
you really go, you're startingvery, very low. And then what
happens with that therelationship becomes one where
(16:01):
that Vic so called victim makesyou more of a victim, because
you're prey to what it is.
They're neat. They're the onesthat are getting taken care of.
And you're left alone, andyou're not the one. So don't
think, because if you'recodependent and you're giving
(16:21):
because you feel guilty or fearof something's happening to that
person. Don't think that you'redoing anything that that person
really needs you for. Whatyou're really doing is stripping
yourself up having up speakingof stripping yourself, I told my
husband I have a show now this
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:41):
And he doesn't silence the phone never.
Dr. Frieda (16:43):
Is this smart or what?
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:45):
That's quite okay. Okay, we're
Dr. Frieda (16:47):
We've been married for a long time this is it. It's
over.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (16:51):
Okay, I was gonna ask you how do you
know when it's over? It's whenthe phone rings and you're on a
zoom
Dr. Frieda (16:55):
Phone rings. When you know that you know when you
have. It's interesting, becauseI love what I do. And the reason
what are the reasons I love it,because he will not bother me.
I'm on this show. I'm on apodcast. I'm on the radio leave.
Wow, he goes, I'm finally heard.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:13):
How long have you been married? Dr.
Frieda?
Dr. Frieda (17:15):
How long? Do you think I've been married? And
don't look at the way I lookedat it. Oh my god, all these a
lotta work
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:23):
30 years? 50? Oh, my goodness.
That's a whole other topic. 50years.
Dr. Frieda (17:29):
That's another topic.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:30):
That's amazing.
Dr. Frieda (17:30):
Thats another live
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:31):
Yeah, but
Dr. Frieda (17:32):
Guess what? I'm going to interrupt you
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:34):
Yes.
Dr. Frieda (17:36):
If you keep growing, and you keep changing, because
that's what life should be.
Otherwise, what do the yearsmean anyway? It's like a drop in
the bucket. It's like
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:47):
Really
Dr. Frieda (17:48):
Because you keep evolving, and you keep changing.
I'm not the same person he met.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:52):
No
Dr. Frieda (17:53):
When I was in my 20s.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (17:56):
Yeah, I made a tictok once, and a lot of
people disagreed with it. I'vebeen married 20 years now. And I
said, No,
Dr. Frieda (18:05):
Think of me and don't be afraid of that number
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (18:07):
Okay.
But you know how people willsay, Well, we're breaking up
because we're not the samepeople anymore. And I'm like,
How can you be if you meetsomeone, when you're one age,
and it's 20 years later, youbetter be different people. And
that's the challenge is learninghow to keep being different
people together. It's that's thetough part.
Dr. Frieda (18:27):
Do you know the truth is that the double
standards of 50s and 60s, maybeeven were very boring. And men
had their own separate life.
They were unfaithful, they werebored. Because women stayed at
home and waited for the man tocome home and bring excitement.
So who wants to be with somebodywho's waiting for you to bring
something you want somebody toshare the excitement, it's two
(18:49):
people bringing joy togetherthan one person being
responsible. So it really wasn'tgreat for the man either, that
the man had the responsibility,not only financially, but to
keep everything afloat, to makegood decisions. Even if a child
wasn't behaving, they would say,I'm going to tell your dad, I'm
going to tell your father, whenhe comes home watch, the poor
(19:12):
guy had to do everything. Andthen on top of that, we blame
them for everything too was alltheir faults. So you know, when
we're looking at really how menand women behave, and what a
healthy relationship is, youneed to change. It's the
opposite of what your friendsaid, you need to change to make
(19:32):
it exciting. And you need tosometimes even take turns when
one partner is doing something.
I put my husband through lawschool and we were married. He
helped me with my career afterthat after he became an
attorney, because at my time, itwas you know, when are you
having children or not? What areyou doing?
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (19:52):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (19:54):
You my father and mother would say when you marry
somebody that's when you'll havea life till then no life no
nothing. It depends what yourhusband does. So you know, but I
was jealous. I said, What aboutme? I'm going to stay home. And
I remember one scene I'm home.
And I'm, I have the baby, myfirst child. And with the food
in the jar, baby food.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (20:18):
Yeah.
Dr. Frieda (20:18):
And he has a three piece suit on, he's wearing his
out to shake case, ready to goto work, and I'm jealous. You
know, I'm eating baby food.
Well, he's going to have lunchwith his friends and have a good
time. So I said, Wait a minute.
This has to stop. I'm gonna goin a whole different direction.
And which I did, I'm happy. ButI wasn't called to get back into
(20:40):
it.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (20:41):
Right?
Dr. Frieda (20:42):
Unraveling stuff. I wasn't codependent. And I wasn't
looking to be liked by him. Isaid to myself, I have to have a
life. If he fits into it. Ratherthan me fitting into his life,
then this has a chance. And eversince that has been fitting into
my life, with everything I'vebeen doing, and proud and
(21:02):
supportive. And so it's fun.
It's really a lot of fun.
Because you can't be threatenedwhat the other person's doing.
Now I'm thinking of a show idea.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (21:13):
That's another one we've got to work
on. Well, it sounds like youyou've you found a way to make
make yourself happy while stillbeing a great mom and still
being you know, a partner. Thatcould be negosh. It's about
negotiation. I feel a lot ofnegotiation in marriage.
Dr. Frieda (21:32):
For sure. We're selfish. We have to have it all.
You know, we're not greedy. It'sjust that if you don't have one
another part is missing. I'lllet you talk.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (21:39):
That's true. No, I could talk to you
all night. But of course I hearrunning around teenager
upstairs. Some. I want everybodyto check out Dr. Freda. She has
her own podcast. She's written abunch of a couple of books,
which I put in the comments. Andwe're gonna have to talk again,
because you always have suchinteresting insights. You can
(21:59):
continue to leave comments.
Dr. Frieda (22:02):
Next time. I promise you.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (22:04):
No worries. Thank you so much. Have
a great night.
Dr. Frieda (22:07):
My pleasure. Always a pleasure seeing you. You look
fabulous by the way.
Jennifer Weedon Palazzo (22:10):
Thanks you too. Bye. Bye. Bye,
everybody.
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