March 6, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast John Metzer of Metzer Farms and Stephen Horst of Fifth Day Farm offer advice on the temperatures needed for incubating guinea, goose, and duck eggs., how to prepare the eggs for incubation, how long to incubate them, and at what point to assist the hatching process.
More from Mother Earth News and Friends
🌳 Podcasts https://www.motherearthnews.com/Podcast/
🌳 Articles https://www.motherearthnews.com/
🌳 Store https://store.motherearthnews.com/
🌳 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/motherearthnewsmag
🌳 TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@motherearthnewsmagazine
The Mother Earth News and Friends podcast shares the stories of leaders in sustainable and rural living. We’re passionate about helping people learn more about natural health, homesteading, sustainability, and more. You can catch new episodes on Thursdays.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Stephen and I are, we're both incubatingbirds that take almost four weeks.
So, what works well with the guineawould work well with the ducks.
The vast majority of our customers arebuying smaller incubators, and we tried
to do a poll one time of our customersof which incubator was best, and there
wasn't one that really stood out but youdo want something that you can vary the
(00:25):
amount of air going in, that you can,can close it up so no air is going in.
Welcome to the Mother EarthNews and Friends podcast.
At Mother Earth News, for 50 yearsand counting, we've been dedicated
to conserving the planet's naturalresources while helping you conserve
your financial resources in this podcast.
(00:46):
We host conversations with expertsin the fields of sustainability,
homesteading, natural health, and moreto share all about how you can live
well wherever you are in a way thatvalues both people and our Mother Earth.
We'd like to thank our sponsorfor this episode, Brinsea.
That's B R I N S E A, chickincubation specialists.
(01:07):
They've been focusing on egg incubatordesign continuously since 1976,
resulting in egg incubators, chickbrooders, and incubation accessories.
They offer unparalleled practicality,reliability, superior hatch
rates, and healthy chicks.
Innovation you can trust.
Good day everyone, I am Kenny Coogan andjoining me on this episode of Mother Earth
(01:30):
News and Friends is John Metzer of MetzerFarms and Stephen Horst of Fifth Day Farm.
John created Metzer Farms in 1978.
Metzer Farms now has hatcheries inCalifornia and Tennessee and specializes
in shipping day old waterfowl tobackyard enthusiasts, feed stores and
commercial growers throughout the U. S.
(01:53):
Stephen Horst started helping his fatherin law, Joel Martin, J. M. Hatchery in
2007 with guinea breeding, sexing broilerchicks, and managing the khaki Campbell
and white muscovy duckling schedule.
They added brown Chinese geeseto Fifth Day Farm, Inc. and took
over the Guinea hatchery in 2022.
(02:16):
Thank you both forjoining us on the podcast
today.
We're glad to be here.
John, I don't know if you remember,but I've been raising ducks for
over 20 years, and I know thatthey do make excellent mothers.
(02:36):
Stephen, I've seen pictures of thoseguineas in the wild, flocks of 25,
and they all have their little babies.
How are guineas with incubatingtheir babies in captivity?
They're a little bit different thanhatching a chicken egg, the biggest
difference being that they take 27 daysto hatch versus 21 days like a chicken
(03:00):
and their shells are considerably harder,but temperatures and things are similar,
but I can give you those temperatures andhumidity settings if you're interested.
First, can you tell me, would yourecommend people having the mother brood
(03:21):
and incubate the eggs themselves, or whatare the benefits of using an incubator?
Hen will lay a nest fullof eggs and stop laying.
If you keep gathering eggs,they'll obviously lay more eggs.
Guineas are considered a game bird, sothey're very flighty, so if they have
a really private area to nest, theywill, but they spook very easily, so
(03:46):
you'd probably be better off incubatingthem because they'll probably get
disturbed and unless they have areally private place to brood a hatch.
What species, and what breedsof guineas are we talking about?
Are they similar to each other?
Because I love those vulturine guineas.
Yeah, so there's a couple ofdifferent kinds of guineas.
(04:07):
Some have big helmets, but the onesthat we hatch are selected by a
company in France, Grimaud Farms.
So they actually switch to a galore bird.
So they are the pearl or the gray guineas.
If people are familiar withthose, they have a little bit
of a purple sheen on their neck.
(04:28):
We call them the French pearl guineasor some people call them the jumbo
guineas because they are selected morefor meat production, but they are not
sterile but they are pretty skittish.
And they're much cheaper than thosevulturine guineas that I love.
Possibly.
I never had the opportunityto buy vulturine guineas.
(04:51):
I was seeing them and they wereover $1, 000 for a breeding pair.
Wow.
So maybe you could get into those.
This is much more economical.
Stephen, can you tell me if you'regoing to use the incubator, what is the
type of incubator you want to use for aguinea, or like what are the components
that you're most concerned about?
(05:12):
Pretty much any incubator will work.
As long as it is set up for chicken eggs.
So, the guinea egg is slightlysmaller than the chicken egg,
but it'll work no problem.
The biggest thing is, yeah, like Isaid, 27 days to hatch versus 21.
So the temperature should be if you'reseeing a multi stage in which most people
(05:38):
would do, or it should be 99.3-99.
5 degrees.
We single stage, so we varythat temperature, start at 99.
9 and lower it about a degree to 99.
5. Until we transfer and then we dropit another five degrees at transfer at
day 24 and drop it another five degreestill they're done hatching at day
(06:05):
26.
0. 5 degrees,
right?
What did I say?
You said five degrees.
I don't think you're dropping it now.
Correct.
0. 5 degrees, half a degree.
So we drop it a total ofone degree during the hatch.
Thank you, John.
One time we did have a machinethat dropped 10 degrees and
(06:26):
it did not hatch very well.
So I wanted to jump in there to make sure.
Yeah, that was a good clarification.
John, can you tell us, forducks and geese, what are the
components of a good incubator?
Well Stephen and I are,we're both incubating birds
that take almost four weeks.
(06:47):
So, what works well with the guineawould work well with the ducks.
The vast majority of our customers arebuying smaller incubators, and we tried
to do a poll one time of our customersof which incubator was best, and there
wasn't one that really stood out but youdo want something that you can vary the
(07:08):
amount of air going in, that you can,can close it up so no air is going in.
It's ideal to have a fan and again, bothof us, or at least myself, have very
little experience with smaller incubators.
Our incubators are bigenough you walk into.
Stephen mentioned that a guinea egg ispretty thick compared to a chicken egg.
(07:31):
Does that influence the incubation at all?
Do you need more humidityfor a duck or a goose, John?
You know what we're doing now iswe're actually just turning the
humidity off during the incubation.
And we're using the humiditygenerated by the bird itself
(07:52):
or the shell, the egg itself.
So as with Stephen, wesingle stage incubate.
So one machine only hasone set of eggs in it.
And we follow a profile, atemperature profile we start out
much higher with duck eggs, 100.
4 and then during hatching,we're down at about 98.
(08:15):
But we, we do that with guineaeggs also, but I think a lot of
hobbyists are single stage incubating.
They don't realize it.
They, they get an incubator,they fill it with eggs.
And those eggs are the only ones in there.
I think that's fairly common, andthey don't realize, Hey, I'm single
(08:36):
stage incubating here, just likethe large commercial hatcheries.
And so, we do have on ourwebsite the temperatures and
humidity for single stage.
Stephen, can you tell me what theopposite of a single stage is?
Commercial hatcheries would multistageif they have producing eggs every week.
(09:00):
So, they put multiple sets in.
So, for us guineas, theytake four weeks to hatch.
So, we may have up to four differentages of eggs in an incubator at one time.
In that case, you would keep a constanttemperature and humidity the whole
way through, kind of averaging thetemperature and humidity of what
(09:21):
you would if you'd single stage.
So again, single stage, we start thetemperature out higher and drop it
about a degree, but in essence, what'shappening, we're trying to keep that
egg the same temperature throughout.
So when an egg comes in, it'scool and producing no heat.
So that's why we have theincubator temperature higher.
(09:44):
And then as it develops, thechick will start developing and
actually start producing heat.
And that's why you want theincubator temperature slightly lower.
So it's not that we're actually tryingto change the temperature of the egg,
but we're trying to keep the temperatureof the egg, even the whole way through
the incubation period, which is whywe actually have to vary the incubator
(10:09):
temperature because at the beginningit's heating and at the end it's cooling.
For guineas, they're laying a singleclutch, and you can wait for like
the clutch to be done, and youcan just store them on your back
porch, and then you put them allin the incubator at the same time?
(10:29):
You could, you can do that, yeah.
They recommend not to store themover seven days, but you can
store them up to 14 days, but thelonger you keep them, they really
start tapering off in fertility.
Guinea eggs you can store ata lot warmer temperatures than
you can duck eggs chicken eggs.
We store them around 67 degrees.
(10:53):
We keep humidity a little bit higher too.
You don't want them to lose moisture asyou're storing them, but yeah, you can
store them up to seven days, no problem.
And John, how long can youstore duck and geese eggs before
you put them in the incubator?
It's about the same seven daysis typical, and maybe that's just
(11:15):
because that's the length of a week.
I don't know if God figuredout, let's, let's make the ideal
holding time the same as whatthey're going to develop as a week.
But yeah, because normally people set eggsonce a week, they figure, well, let's just
set them once a week and that'll work.
But Stephen is correct thatthe longer you hold them.
(11:36):
The more loss you're going tohave during the incubation.
And even though we have tiny Bantamducks all the way up to huge Jumbo
Pekins, storing the eggs, incubation,they're all pretty much similar?
Similar, but you do have some variability.
(11:56):
We set our eggs we probablyset four different times.
If we want to, let's say, pull our hatch,take them out of the hatcher on Monday
morning we'll be setting some eggs, somebreeds first thing Monday morning, some
in the afternoon, some in the evening,and mallards would be the next day.
(12:17):
So, you know, a hatchery wantseverything to hatch at the same time.
And so you set different settingtimes depending on sort of the
size of the egg and the breed.
And John, can you talk about turningof the duck and the geese eggs?
I think a lot of people arefamiliar with turning chicken eggs.
(12:40):
Yeah, it's, it's similar.
Most commercial incubatorsturn every hour.
We've been told thatevery two hours is fine.
When I say we've been told andthat's by the incubator manufacturer.
I believe the first week isthe most important to turn.
I don't know what Stephen's experiencesare, but if you're hand turning, do it as
(13:03):
much as you can the first week, and thenif you have to back off so that people
will accept you in the house, then, thendo it less starting at about seven days.
So that, that's what's turning,but in commercial machines.
You can do it as frequently as youwant, but there's no point in going to
(13:24):
every 30 minutes because you're justwearing out your turning mechanism
and you're not helping the egg any.
And there's always potentialdamage by turning, whether you're
doing it by hand or by machine.
And when I'm saying potentialdamage, things break, things don't
happen just right all the time.
(13:44):
Yeah, our machines turn every hour, butyou can go every two hours, it's fine.
But, again, what John said at thebeginning is more important to
turn so they develop properly, andthen it's less critical at the end.
So, if you're turning them by hand,I don't have experience with that.
So, our machines turn every hour.
(14:06):
And same with you're ducksand you're brown Chinese.
Yes.
Yep.
I can't imagine somebody waking upevery two hours for the first seven
days overnight to be turning their eggs.
Stephen, on a commercial scale,do you candle your eggs, or how do
you know if an egg is good or not?
(14:28):
Yeah, with, you can candleat 21 days, obviously.
You'll see the embryo develop.
But, we wait until we transferthe eggs from the incubator to
the hatcher when we candle them.
We have a table candler whereour egg trays are 150 eggs.
I made a table that hasan LED for each egg.
(14:51):
And it just has a little hole that letslight up, so we do it in a dark room.
And we do a whole trayof 150 eggs at a time.
So, we pick out the clear ones,the ones that glow orange.
Sometimes you can see dead embryos.
With the guinea eggs, they're a littlebit darker shell and a little thicker.
So they're a little bit harder tosee the dead embryos sometimes.
(15:14):
But so yeah, we would do it at day 24,day 25 when we transfer to the hatcher.
And John, are you doing the same thing?
Yeah, and back to turning because that'swhen I sort of dropped out I wanted to
add a point for people doing turningthemselves or more importantly if they
(15:34):
have an automatic turner to mark theeggs so that you really know they're
being turned you don't want to rely onit and not check it just to make sure so
there's different ways of, you know, ina large commercial actually they'll put a
counter on it so it's physically countingwhen it's turning is one way to do it.
(15:57):
Or you, you mark the eggs or youmake a mental note that, Hey,
they're facing forward this time.
And next time they're facing backwards.
So however people do it, don'trely on your automatic turner,
just verify, trust, but verify.
Are you allowed to use a Sharpieor a sticker, or do we not want to
(16:18):
cover up the pores of the shell?
You know, it's it's said not touse a felt pen or wax specifically.
So we definitely don'tuse the wax pencils.
I think the best is just a lead in pencil.
So I, I don't have any realproof one way or the other.
(16:38):
But if somebody's doing something,I would use probably a pen or a
sharp pencil, not a wax pencil.
John, we were talking about how doyou candle eggs at a commercial scale.
Ours are very similarwe set them over a tray.
We take out the obviously clear eggsfirst, and then we actually have a very
(17:01):
small handheld LED flashlight, even thoughit's only two inches long and about a half
inch wide, and they quickly go throughand check the remainder of the eggs.
To, to get those that may havestarted develop, but died.
We find it the easiest for us todo it at about nine days of age.
(17:22):
But we did switch to a week later,about 16 days of age, because we
felt, or the incubator manufacturerJamesway felt that we should not
be opening the incubator that soon.
So one thing that is unique about singlestage is that you want your carbon
(17:44):
dioxide levels very high, at leastwith ducks and geese during incubation.
So the air that we're breathing rightnow is 700 parts per million CO2.
Well, during incubation.
It doesn't hurt 'em at leastducks to get up to 10, 000.
So you're with that 40 times theCO2 level during early incubation.
(18:07):
So the only way you're goingto achieve that is to make
sure your incubator is closed.
And then even though those few smallcells start to develop, they give off CO2.
And so eventually up to 10 days ofage that CO2 starts to build up.
So that's why I indicated earlier, when Iset a machine, that you can close up so.
(18:29):
So the egg shell is porous, andthe little embryos are respiring,
so they're releasing, yeah,they're releasing carbon dioxide.
And do we know the benefit ofhaving a high amount of carbon
dioxide in the environment?
It's actually makes the birdshealthier when they hatch and
(18:50):
you do get a better hatch.
And interestingly for large commercialhatcheries that are hatching broiler
chicks if they have high carbon dioxideearly in incubation, their feed efficiency
is better when they grow those for meat.
Now, the way I rationalize it, and Idon't know if this is true or even close
(19:14):
to it, but with a high CO2 level, Iperceive that the cardiovascular system,
the heart and the lungs, are being forcedto work a little harder, and so maybe
they're developing a little sooner thanthey would if oxygen was very plentiful.
So, Stephen, you can correct me.
(19:36):
That's the way I rationalize it.
I dunno what the benefits of havingthe CO but we do the same thing.
We have a CO2 in our newmachines now that monitors that.
So yeah, we keep our incubators closed.
The bench completely closed until day 14.
And then I run them automaticallydepending on where the CO level is.
(19:59):
So we run it up to 60, it can getup to 90 before it kills them.
They don't recommend going that high,but same thing with the hatcher,
we keep it as close as we can andthen open it during the hatch to
allow them to keep the humidity.
The humidity still spikes duringhatch up to 90, 95 percent just
(20:20):
from the moisture from hatching.
But yeah, same thing with, I can'texplain why it's better to do it that
way, but I do know keeping the incubatorclosed the heat that you retain from
the eggs, it is basically, the machine'snot even working, so it's not adding
humidity, and it's not adding heat.
(20:40):
They're pretty much incubating themselves,so there's less input that way, so it
does definitely seem to work better.
Yeah, initially, I think, multi stageincubators, people would put eggs in
every week, and I think the biggestbenefit they thought they were having,
was that those eggs that are in the lastpart of development are putting off heat
(21:06):
and that heat can be utilized to warmthose eggs that are less than a week old
because they're not generating much heat.
And so you're utilizing the energy,the heat in that machine, the best
and that's true because with singlestage, you're using more energy
to heat them, and then at the end,you're using energy to cool them.
(21:28):
But, your hatchability is better,and the resulting birds are better.
So, and remember that MotherNature does single stage.
I don't know if you can speak on this,but for the hobbyist, is it better
to have a big incubator that holds30 eggs if you only have 10 eggs?
Or is it better to have a 10 eggincubator if you have 10 eggs, like
(21:54):
are you really like wasting electricityheating that air or is it not enough CO2?
Do you have any thoughts on that, John?
My initial thought would be ifcost is not a concern, have a 30
because that allows you to grow.
I, you know, I'm a science kindof biology kind of guy and so
(22:17):
I'd want to see some proof.
I understand what you're saying.
It'd be a little, take longer toraise the CO2, et cetera, et cetera.
But they do want in large commercialincubators if you're not full of eggs,
they want you to at least put theracks in there so that the airflow is
still sort of going where it should go.
(22:41):
Because, you know, when youhave 10, incubator, the flow
of air is really important.
Now, how important that is in asmaller incubator, probably much less
so because you don't have the chanceof generating quite as much heat.
But if I did have 10 eggs in a 30egg incubator, I'd probably want to
(23:02):
spread them out in that incubatorand not have them all in one.
That's that's my only initial thoughts.
I don't know what Stephenconsiders with his machines
With the big machine, they runmore efficiently when you have
them full versus half empty.
So, I suppose that would be thesame with the hobbyist incubator.
(23:25):
It'd be better if you have a, havea full incubator and not just be
running a few eggs, but it can be done.
It just might take more input.
At the beginning, it mighttake, be taking more heat.
And then, which would drop the humiditymaybe, depends how the heater is set
up, and you have to be adding morehumidity, so I think both would work.
(23:47):
One thing about the larger commercialincubators and hatchers is that
they have a cooling system, whereasa smaller hobbyist incubator, the
only way you cool it is to openit up to let more air go through.
Whereas a commercial incubator,there's cooling coils, like a
(24:08):
radiator, but with cold water.
To cool the machine off.
We are going to take a quick breakto hear a word from our sponsor.
And when we return, we'll be focusing onthe final days of the hatching process.
Brinsea products are designed to belong lasting and energy efficient.
(24:30):
Their Advance Series incubatorsand brooders feature the latest
state of the art digital controlsystems, providing instant readings
of temperature and humidity to ensuresuccessful hatches and healthy chicks.
Check out Brinsea incubatorsand more at www.Brinsea.com.
That's www.Brinsea.
(24:53):
com.
And we're back with JohnMetzer and Stephen Horst.
The last couple of questions,we're going to be talking about the
final days of the hatching process.
John, duck eggs take 28 days.
So, around day 25, 26, arewe doing something different?
(25:15):
Well, we're putting themin a different machine.
And really the machines are very similar.
I've used incubators forhatching, at least with ours.
But in hatching, basically you'renot turning them, and typically
you want the humidity to elevateso that the birds can hatch.
So, the main thing is thatthey're not being turned.
(25:40):
What humidity level do youwant for the last few days?
Well, in not relative humidity, butwet bulb, you're at 90 percent or more.
And Stephen, what about guinea eggs?
What day do you stop turning?
So a transfer day, 24is what they recommend.
(26:03):
We actually do 25.
But we start ramping up thehumidity a little bit before we
transfer them to the hatcher.
And we aim to do 77 percent right away.
And with guineas, again, withtheir harder shells, we want to
make sure they don't dry out.
If they're too dry, they can't pick,they basically have to turn 360 degrees
(26:27):
in their shelves, pick around the top.
So, another thing with guineas that'sdifferent they like to hear each other.
There are some people thatactually turn their machines
off and let the CO really spike.
I don't know if it's the spike incarbon dioxide or the ability to
(26:49):
hear themselves piping or hear theothers piping that stimulates them
to hatch, but that does work better.
So the less noise you have, the better.
We actually dialed back ourmachines, slowed down the fans.
There's still enough circulation, butthey need a little bit more quiet, so
either intermittent running your machineor I know that can get dangerous.
(27:13):
I don't maybe recommend that forobvious, but be concerned about
the noise level of your machine.
And then as far as breaking themout I know that was a question
that some people have, shouldyou help them out with guineas?
The answer is actually yes, but afterthey're all done hatching and you,
(27:35):
as you get more experience with them,you can tell if, if they get stuck,
especially because they have a hard shell.
Some do get stuck.
They're completely healthy, develop fine.
But after they're done hatching, youcan break them out and you know, you're
breaking them out too soon if themembrane has blood veins in it yet, it
should be clear or white the membrane,if you're helping him out, if you see
(27:59):
blood, then they're still hatching.
Just let them go.
But because they take longer todevelop than chickens your humidity
and temperature has to be just right.
If their humidity is too low,they're going to stick and
they can't turn to hatch.
If it's too high, they're going to notdevelop right and you'll, you'll smell it.
(28:23):
It'll, it'll be a stinky hatch.
So those are the things that couldgo wrong with hatching guineas.
So Stephen, you have like a clutch of20 guinea chicks hatching, and then
you notice that 19 of them are runningaround the brooder and then one of
them, the shell is still stuck to them.
Is that what you're referring to?
(28:44):
No, I'm saying they can'tget out of the shell.
So you can help them, butdon't help them too soon.
When we're done with the hatch,we actually even during the
pull day, we'll help them out.
If it looks like they're stuck and you,you have to develop an eye for that, you
know if it's too soon to help them outor not, and then the final hatch days on
(29:07):
the delivery day will actually go throughand, and, and break them out again ones
that are still hatching or got stuck.
So do that twice.
Yeah, and ducks are very similar to that.
Sort of our rule of thumb is ifthe duckling has started to turn
in there then it's typically fairlysafe to help them out if you have to.
(29:31):
But sometimes they just make a holeand they just make that hole bigger and
bigger and they're not turning in there.
You're not going to have much luck withthose, but sometimes they will start
to have, they turn, peck, turn, peck,turn, peck, and then something happens.
Typically, if they've startedthat process, you can help
them out if you have to.
(29:52):
Twice we have had to transfer eggs forover three hours drive time from an
incubator to a hatcher, so we thinkthey're very tender, but at that age,
at least they handled it very well.
We had as good a hatch afterthe transportation is before.
So I just thought I'd throw thatin there that if something goes
(30:14):
wrong in somebody's incubator, itmay not be the end of the world.
Overheating is much worse than cooling,but don't give up, just keep incubating
and candle them and see if they've made it
So that's the back end of the incubation.
In the beginning I don't know ifyour facilities do this, but I do
(30:35):
know some people ship fertilizedeggs, but that needs to happen
within the first seven days.
Well, the fresher the eggs,the better, because during
shipping, you're using up time.
So when we ship hatching eggs, wetry to ship eggs that are only a day
or two old, three days at the most.
(30:56):
So when the customer receivesthem, they're within the seven
days and they can set them.
Yes, whether they're being shippedor produced on your own place,
it's best to incubate, put themin incubator within seven days.
John or Stephen, any final words of hopefor our listeners who want to incubate
ducks, geese, and guineas at home.
(31:19):
Don't despair if something goes wrong.
Just let the machine keep going,candle the eggs in two or three
days, and you'll find out then if theproblem really did harm the birds.
Don't, don't panic.
Just get it back tonormal and go from there.
And it's better if theyget too cool than too hot.
(31:39):
You go up two degrees, that'll kill them.
Two degrees down is no problemfor a short period of time.
It's a wonderful experiencefor a lot of people.
Stephen?
Yeah, I would say the same thing.
It's just keep track of thedays, temperature, humidity.
Don't get too eager to Break them out,especially with guineas, if you think
(32:00):
they're getting stuck just let them goand, yeah, let them have time to turn, it
might take a while for them to come out,but they, they're pretty hardy, they come
out, it looks like their shells are reallyhard and they're never going to make it,
that you really should do them a favorin helping them, but don't help them too
soon, so, yeah, they'll, they'll come.
(32:22):
Thank you so much, John Metzer fromMetzer Farms and Stephen Horst from Fifth
Day Farm for this great conversation.
Thank you, John and Kenny.
Yep.
Thank you very much.
Thanks again to Brinsea, oursponsor for this Mother Earth
News and Friends podcast episode.
(32:44):
You too can experience the Brinseadifference and maximize your hatch
rates with Brinsea incubators thatmonitor temperature and humidity and
are made of antimicrobial materials.
Brinsea ships worldwide andprovides stellar customer support
to answer all your questions.
Hatch your chicks with Brinsea, theleader in innovative incubation research.
(33:07):
Learn more at Brinsea.com.
Again, that's www.Brinsea.com
Thanks for joining us for this episodeof Mother Earth News and Friends.
To listen to more podcasts and getconnected on our social media, visit www.
(33:28):
motherearthnews.
com slash podcast.
You can also email usat podcast at Ogdenpubs.
com with any questions or suggestions.
Our podcast production teamincludes Kenny Coogan, Alyssa
Warner, and myself, Josh Wilder.
Music for this episode is thesong Hustle by Kevin MacLeod.
The Mother Earth News and Friends podcastis a production of Ogden Publications.
(33:51):
Until next time, don'tforget to love your Mother.
Stephen and I are, we're both incubatingbirds that take almost four weeks.
So, what works well with the guineawould work well with the ducks.
The vast majority of our customers arebuying smaller incubators, and we tried
to do a poll one time of our customersof which incubator was best, and there
wasn't one that really stood out but youdo want something that you can vary the
(00:25):
amount of air going in, that you can,can close it up so no air is going in.
Welcome to the Mother EarthNews and Friends podcast.
At Mother Earth News, for 50 yearsand counting, we've been dedicated
to conserving the planet's naturalresources while helping you conserve
your financial resources in this podcast.
(00:46):
We host conversations with expertsin the fields of sustainability,
homesteading, natural health, and moreto share all about how you can live
well wherever you are in a way thatvalues both people and our Mother Earth.
We'd like to thank our sponsorfor this episode, Brinsea.
That's B R I N S E A, chickincubation specialists.
(01:07):
They've been focusing on egg incubatordesign continuously since 1976,
resulting in egg incubators, chickbrooders, and incubation accessories.
They offer unparalleled practicality,reliability, superior hatch
rates, and healthy chicks.
Innovation you can trust.
Good day everyone, I am Kenny Coogan andjoining me on this episode of Mother Earth
(01:30):
News and Friends is John Metzer of MetzerFarms and Stephen Horst of Fifth Day Farm.
John created Metzer Farms in 1978.
Metzer Farms now has hatcheries inCalifornia and Tennessee and specializes
in shipping day old waterfowl tobackyard enthusiasts, feed stores and
commercial growers throughout the U. S.
(01:53):
Stephen Horst started helping his fatherin law, Joel Martin, J. M. Hatchery in
2007 with guinea breeding, sexing broilerchicks, and managing the khaki Campbell
and white muscovy duckling schedule.
They added brown Chinese geeseto Fifth Day Farm, Inc. and took
over the Guinea hatchery in 2022.
(02:16):
Thank you both forjoining us on the podcast
today.
We're glad to be here.
John, I don't know if you remember,but I've been raising ducks for
over 20 years, and I know thatthey do make excellent mothers.
(02:36):
Stephen, I've seen pictures of thoseguineas in the wild, flocks of 25,
and they all have their little babies.
How are guineas with incubatingtheir babies in captivity?
They're a little bit different thanhatching a chicken egg, the biggest
difference being that they take 27 daysto hatch versus 21 days like a chicken
(03:00):
and their shells are considerably harder,but temperatures and things are similar,
but I can give you those temperatures andhumidity settings if you're interested.
First, can you tell me, would yourecommend people having the mother brood
(03:21):
and incubate the eggs themselves, or whatare the benefits of using an incubator?
Hen will lay a nest fullof eggs and stop laying.
If you keep gathering eggs,they'll obviously lay more eggs.
Guineas are considered a game bird, sothey're very flighty, so if they have
a really private area to nest, theywill, but they spook very easily, so
(03:46):
you'd probably be better off incubatingthem because they'll probably get
disturbed and unless they have areally private place to brood a hatch.
What species, and what breedsof guineas are we talking about?
Are they similar to each other?
Because I love those vulturine guineas.
Yeah, so there's a couple ofdifferent kinds of guineas.
(04:07):
Some have big helmets, but the onesthat we hatch are selected by a
company in France, Grimaud Farms.
So they actually switch to a galore bird.
So they are the pearl or the gray guineas.
If people are familiar withthose, they have a little bit
of a purple sheen on their neck.
(04:28):
We call them the French pearl guineasor some people call them the jumbo
guineas because they are selected morefor meat production, but they are not
sterile but they are pretty skittish.
And they're much cheaper than thosevulturine guineas that I love.
Possibly.
I never had the opportunityto buy vulturine guineas.
(04:51):
I was seeing them and they wereover $1, 000 for a breeding pair.
Wow.
So maybe you could get into those.
This is much more economical.
Stephen, can you tell me if you'regoing to use the incubator, what is the
type of incubator you want to use for aguinea, or like what are the components
that you're most concerned about?
(05:12):
Pretty much any incubator will work.
As long as it is set up for chicken eggs.
So, the guinea egg is slightlysmaller than the chicken egg,
but it'll work no problem.
The biggest thing is, yeah, like Isaid, 27 days to hatch versus 21.
So the temperature should be if you'reseeing a multi stage in which most people
(05:38):
would do, or it should be 99.3-99.
5 degrees.
We single stage, so we varythat temperature, start at 99.
9 and lower it about a degree to 99.
5. Until we transfer and then we dropit another five degrees at transfer at
day 24 and drop it another five degreestill they're done hatching at day
(06:05):
26.
0. 5 degrees,
right?
What did I say?
You said five degrees.
I don't think you're dropping it now.
Correct.
0. 5 degrees, half a degree.
So we drop it a total ofone degree during the hatch.
Thank you, John.
One time we did have a machinethat dropped 10 degrees and
(06:26):
it did not hatch very well.
So I wanted to jump in there to make sure.
Yeah, that was a good clarification.
John, can you tell us, forducks and geese, what are the
components of a good incubator?
Well Stephen and I are,we're both incubating birds
that take almost four weeks.
(06:47):
So, what works well with the guineawould work well with the ducks.
The vast majority of our customers arebuying smaller incubators, and we tried
to do a poll one time of our customersof which incubator was best, and there
wasn't one that really stood out but youdo want something that you can vary the
(07:08):
amount of air going in, that you can,can close it up so no air is going in.
It's ideal to have a fan and again, bothof us, or at least myself, have very
little experience with smaller incubators.
Our incubators are bigenough you walk into.
Stephen mentioned that a guinea egg ispretty thick compared to a chicken egg.
(07:31):
Does that influence the incubation at all?
Do you need more humidityfor a duck or a goose, John?
You know what we're doing now iswe're actually just turning the
humidity off during the incubation.
And we're using the humiditygenerated by the bird itself
(07:52):
or the shell, the egg itself.
So as with Stephen, wesingle stage incubate.
So one machine only hasone set of eggs in it.
And we follow a profile, atemperature profile we start out
much higher with duck eggs, 100.
4 and then during hatching,we're down at about 98.
(08:15):
But we, we do that with guineaeggs also, but I think a lot of
hobbyists are single stage incubating.
They don't realize it.
They, they get an incubator,they fill it with eggs.
And those eggs are the only ones in there.
I think that's fairly common, andthey don't realize, Hey, I'm single
(08:36):
stage incubating here, just likethe large commercial hatcheries.
And so, we do have on ourwebsite the temperatures and
humidity for single stage.
Stephen, can you tell me what theopposite of a single stage is?
Commercial hatcheries would multistageif they have producing eggs every week.
(09:00):
So, they put multiple sets in.
So, for us guineas, theytake four weeks to hatch.
So, we may have up to four differentages of eggs in an incubator at one time.
In that case, you would keep a constanttemperature and humidity the whole
way through, kind of averaging thetemperature and humidity of what
(09:21):
you would if you'd single stage.
So again, single stage, we start thetemperature out higher and drop it
about a degree, but in essence, what'shappening, we're trying to keep that
egg the same temperature throughout.
So when an egg comes in, it'scool and producing no heat.
So that's why we have theincubator temperature higher.
(09:44):
And then as it develops, thechick will start developing and
actually start producing heat.
And that's why you want theincubator temperature slightly lower.
So it's not that we're actually tryingto change the temperature of the egg,
but we're trying to keep the temperatureof the egg, even the whole way through
the incubation period, which is whywe actually have to vary the incubator
(10:09):
temperature because at the beginningit's heating and at the end it's cooling.
For guineas, they're laying a singleclutch, and you can wait for like
the clutch to be done, and youcan just store them on your back
porch, and then you put them allin the incubator at the same time?
(10:29):
You could, you can do that, yeah.
They recommend not to store themover seven days, but you can
store them up to 14 days, but thelonger you keep them, they really
start tapering off in fertility.
Guinea eggs you can store ata lot warmer temperatures than
you can duck eggs chicken eggs.
We store them around 67 degrees.
(10:53):
We keep humidity a little bit higher too.
You don't want them to lose moisture asyou're storing them, but yeah, you can
store them up to seven days, no problem.
And John, how long can youstore duck and geese eggs before
you put them in the incubator?
It's about the same seven daysis typical, and maybe that's just
(11:15):
because that's the length of a week.
I don't know if God figuredout, let's, let's make the ideal
holding time the same as whatthey're going to develop as a week.
But yeah, because normally people set eggsonce a week, they figure, well, let's just
set them once a week and that'll work.
But Stephen is correct thatthe longer you hold them.
(11:36):
The more loss you're going tohave during the incubation.
And even though we have tiny Bantamducks all the way up to huge Jumbo
Pekins, storing the eggs, incubation,they're all pretty much similar?
Similar, but you do have some variability.
(11:56):
We set our eggs we probablyset four different times.
If we want to, let's say, pull our hatch,take them out of the hatcher on Monday
morning we'll be setting some eggs, somebreeds first thing Monday morning, some
in the afternoon, some in the evening,and mallards would be the next day.
(12:17):
So, you know, a hatchery wantseverything to hatch at the same time.
And so you set different settingtimes depending on sort of the
size of the egg and the breed.
And John, can you talk about turningof the duck and the geese eggs?
I think a lot of people arefamiliar with turning chicken eggs.
(12:40):
Yeah, it's, it's similar.
Most commercial incubatorsturn every hour.
We've been told thatevery two hours is fine.
When I say we've been told andthat's by the incubator manufacturer.
I believe the first week isthe most important to turn.
I don't know what Stephen's experiencesare, but if you're hand turning, do it as
(13:03):
much as you can the first week, and thenif you have to back off so that people
will accept you in the house, then, thendo it less starting at about seven days.
So that, that's what's turning,but in commercial machines.
You can do it as frequently as youwant, but there's no point in going to
(13:24):
every 30 minutes because you're justwearing out your turning mechanism
and you're not helping the egg any.
And there's always potentialdamage by turning, whether you're
doing it by hand or by machine.
And when I'm saying potentialdamage, things break, things don't
happen just right all the time.
(13:44):
Yeah, our machines turn every hour, butyou can go every two hours, it's fine.
But, again, what John said at thebeginning is more important to
turn so they develop properly, andthen it's less critical at the end.
So, if you're turning them by hand,I don't have experience with that.
So, our machines turn every hour.
(14:06):
And same with you're ducksand you're brown Chinese.
Yes.
Yep.
I can't imagine somebody waking upevery two hours for the first seven
days overnight to be turning their eggs.
Stephen, on a commercial scale,do you candle your eggs, or how do
you know if an egg is good or not?
(14:28):
Yeah, with, you can candleat 21 days, obviously.
You'll see the embryo develop.
But, we wait until we transferthe eggs from the incubator to
the hatcher when we candle them.
We have a table candler whereour egg trays are 150 eggs.
I made a table that hasan LED for each egg.
(14:51):
And it just has a little hole that letslight up, so we do it in a dark room.
And we do a whole trayof 150 eggs at a time.
So, we pick out the clear ones,the ones that glow orange.
Sometimes you can see dead embryos.
With the guinea eggs, they're a littlebit darker shell and a little thicker.
So they're a little bit harder tosee the dead embryos sometimes.
(15:14):
But so yeah, we would do it at day 24,day 25 when we transfer to the hatcher.
And John, are you doing the same thing?
Yeah, and back to turning because that'swhen I sort of dropped out I wanted to
add a point for people doing turningthemselves or more importantly if they
(15:34):
have an automatic turner to mark theeggs so that you really know they're
being turned you don't want to rely onit and not check it just to make sure so
there's different ways of, you know, ina large commercial actually they'll put a
counter on it so it's physically countingwhen it's turning is one way to do it.
(15:57):
Or you, you mark the eggs or youmake a mental note that, Hey,
they're facing forward this time.
And next time they're facing backwards.
So however people do it, don'trely on your automatic turner,
just verify, trust, but verify.
Are you allowed to use a Sharpieor a sticker, or do we not want to
(16:18):
cover up the pores of the shell?
You know, it's it's said not touse a felt pen or wax specifically.
So we definitely don'tuse the wax pencils.
I think the best is just a lead in pencil.
So I, I don't have any realproof one way or the other.
(16:38):
But if somebody's doing something,I would use probably a pen or a
sharp pencil, not a wax pencil.
John, we were talking about how doyou candle eggs at a commercial scale.
Ours are very similarwe set them over a tray.
We take out the obviously clear eggsfirst, and then we actually have a very
(17:01):
small handheld LED flashlight, even thoughit's only two inches long and about a half
inch wide, and they quickly go throughand check the remainder of the eggs.
To, to get those that may havestarted develop, but died.
We find it the easiest for us todo it at about nine days of age.
(17:22):
But we did switch to a week later,about 16 days of age, because we
felt, or the incubator manufacturerJamesway felt that we should not
be opening the incubator that soon.
So one thing that is unique about singlestage is that you want your carbon
(17:44):
dioxide levels very high, at leastwith ducks and geese during incubation.
So the air that we're breathing rightnow is 700 parts per million CO2.
Well, during incubation.
It doesn't hurt 'em at leastducks to get up to 10, 000.
So you're with that 40 times theCO2 level during early incubation.
(18:07):
So the only way you're goingto achieve that is to make
sure your incubator is closed.
And then even though those few smallcells start to develop, they give off CO2.
And so eventually up to 10 days ofage that CO2 starts to build up.
So that's why I indicated earlier, when Iset a machine, that you can close up so.
(18:29):
So the egg shell is porous, andthe little embryos are respiring,
so they're releasing, yeah,they're releasing carbon dioxide.
And do we know the benefit ofhaving a high amount of carbon
dioxide in the environment?
It's actually makes the birdshealthier when they hatch and
(18:50):
you do get a better hatch.
And interestingly for large commercialhatcheries that are hatching broiler
chicks if they have high carbon dioxideearly in incubation, their feed efficiency
is better when they grow those for meat.
Now, the way I rationalize it, and Idon't know if this is true or even close
(19:14):
to it, but with a high CO2 level, Iperceive that the cardiovascular system,
the heart and the lungs, are being forcedto work a little harder, and so maybe
they're developing a little sooner thanthey would if oxygen was very plentiful.
So, Stephen, you can correct me.
(19:36):
That's the way I rationalize it.
I dunno what the benefits of havingthe CO but we do the same thing.
We have a CO2 in our newmachines now that monitors that.
So yeah, we keep our incubators closed.
The bench completely closed until day 14.
And then I run them automaticallydepending on where the CO level is.
(19:59):
So we run it up to 60, it can getup to 90 before it kills them.
They don't recommend going that high,but same thing with the hatcher,
we keep it as close as we can andthen open it during the hatch to
allow them to keep the humidity.
The humidity still spikes duringhatch up to 90, 95 percent just
(20:20):
from the moisture from hatching.
But yeah, same thing with, I can'texplain why it's better to do it that
way, but I do know keeping the incubatorclosed the heat that you retain from
the eggs, it is basically, the machine'snot even working, so it's not adding
humidity, and it's not adding heat.
(20:40):
They're pretty much incubating themselves,so there's less input that way, so it
does definitely seem to work better.
Yeah, initially, I think, multi stageincubators, people would put eggs in
every week, and I think the biggestbenefit they thought they were having,
was that those eggs that are in the lastpart of development are putting off heat
(21:06):
and that heat can be utilized to warmthose eggs that are less than a week old
because they're not generating much heat.
And so you're utilizing the energy,the heat in that machine, the best
and that's true because with singlestage, you're using more energy
to heat them, and then at the end,you're using energy to cool them.
(21:28):
But, your hatchability is better,and the resulting birds are better.
So, and remember that MotherNature does single stage.
I don't know if you can speak on this,but for the hobbyist, is it better
to have a big incubator that holds30 eggs if you only have 10 eggs?
Or is it better to have a 10 eggincubator if you have 10 eggs, like
(21:54):
are you really like wasting electricityheating that air or is it not enough CO2?
Do you have any thoughts on that, John?
My initial thought would be ifcost is not a concern, have a 30
because that allows you to grow.
I, you know, I'm a science kindof biology kind of guy and so
(22:17):
I'd want to see some proof.
I understand what you're saying.
It'd be a little, take longer toraise the CO2, et cetera, et cetera.
But they do want in large commercialincubators if you're not full of eggs,
they want you to at least put theracks in there so that the airflow is
still sort of going where it should go.
(22:41):
Because, you know, when youhave 10, incubator, the flow
of air is really important.
Now, how important that is in asmaller incubator, probably much less
so because you don't have the chanceof generating quite as much heat.
But if I did have 10 eggs in a 30egg incubator, I'd probably want to
(23:02):
spread them out in that incubatorand not have them all in one.
That's that's my only initial thoughts.
I don't know what Stephenconsiders with his machines
With the big machine, they runmore efficiently when you have
them full versus half empty.
So, I suppose that would be thesame with the hobbyist incubator.
(23:25):
It'd be better if you have a, havea full incubator and not just be
running a few eggs, but it can be done.
It just might take more input.
At the beginning, it mighttake, be taking more heat.
And then, which would drop the humiditymaybe, depends how the heater is set
up, and you have to be adding morehumidity, so I think both would work.
(23:47):
One thing about the larger commercialincubators and hatchers is that
they have a cooling system, whereasa smaller hobbyist incubator, the
only way you cool it is to openit up to let more air go through.
Whereas a commercial incubator,there's cooling coils, like a
(24:08):
radiator, but with cold water.
To cool the machine off.
We are going to take a quick breakto hear a word from our sponsor.
And when we return, we'll be focusing onthe final days of the hatching process.
Brinsea products are designed to belong lasting and energy efficient.
(24:30):
Their Advance Series incubatorsand brooders feature the latest
state of the art digital controlsystems, providing instant readings
of temperature and humidity to ensuresuccessful hatches and healthy chicks.
Check out Brinsea incubatorsand more at www.Brinsea.com.
That's www.Brinsea.
(24:53):
com.
And we're back with JohnMetzer and Stephen Horst.
The last couple of questions,we're going to be talking about the
final days of the hatching process.
John, duck eggs take 28 days.
So, around day 25, 26, arewe doing something different?
(25:15):
Well, we're putting themin a different machine.
And really the machines are very similar.
I've used incubators forhatching, at least with ours.
But in hatching, basically you'renot turning them, and typically
you want the humidity to elevateso that the birds can hatch.
So, the main thing is thatthey're not being turned.
(25:40):
What humidity level do youwant for the last few days?
Well, in not relative humidity, butwet bulb, you're at 90 percent or more.
And Stephen, what about guinea eggs?
What day do you stop turning?
So a transfer day, 24is what they recommend.
(26:03):
We actually do 25.
But we start ramping up thehumidity a little bit before we
transfer them to the hatcher.
And we aim to do 77 percent right away.
And with guineas, again, withtheir harder shells, we want to
make sure they don't dry out.
If they're too dry, they can't pick,they basically have to turn 360 degrees
(26:27):
in their shelves, pick around the top.
So, another thing with guineas that'sdifferent they like to hear each other.
There are some people thatactually turn their machines
off and let the CO really spike.
I don't know if it's the spike incarbon dioxide or the ability to
(26:49):
hear themselves piping or hear theothers piping that stimulates them
to hatch, but that does work better.
So the less noise you have, the better.
We actually dialed back ourmachines, slowed down the fans.
There's still enough circulation, butthey need a little bit more quiet, so
either intermittent running your machineor I know that can get dangerous.
(27:13):
I don't maybe recommend that forobvious, but be concerned about
the noise level of your machine.
And then as far as breaking themout I know that was a question
that some people have, shouldyou help them out with guineas?
The answer is actually yes, but afterthey're all done hatching and you,
(27:35):
as you get more experience with them,you can tell if, if they get stuck,
especially because they have a hard shell.
Some do get stuck.
They're completely healthy, develop fine.
But after they're done hatching, youcan break them out and you know, you're
breaking them out too soon if themembrane has blood veins in it yet, it
should be clear or white the membrane,if you're helping him out, if you see
(27:59):
blood, then they're still hatching.
Just let them go.
But because they take longer todevelop than chickens your humidity
and temperature has to be just right.
If their humidity is too low,they're going to stick and
they can't turn to hatch.
If it's too high, they're going to notdevelop right and you'll, you'll smell it.
(28:23):
It'll, it'll be a stinky hatch.
So those are the things that couldgo wrong with hatching guineas.
So Stephen, you have like a clutch of20 guinea chicks hatching, and then
you notice that 19 of them are runningaround the brooder and then one of
them, the shell is still stuck to them.
Is that what you're referring to?
(28:44):
No, I'm saying they can'tget out of the shell.
So you can help them, butdon't help them too soon.
When we're done with the hatch,we actually even during the
pull day, we'll help them out.
If it looks like they're stuck and you,you have to develop an eye for that, you
know if it's too soon to help them outor not, and then the final hatch days on
(29:07):
the delivery day will actually go throughand, and, and break them out again ones
that are still hatching or got stuck.
So do that twice.
Yeah, and ducks are very similar to that.
Sort of our rule of thumb is ifthe duckling has started to turn
in there then it's typically fairlysafe to help them out if you have to.
(29:31):
But sometimes they just make a holeand they just make that hole bigger and
bigger and they're not turning in there.
You're not going to have much luck withthose, but sometimes they will start
to have, they turn, peck, turn, peck,turn, peck, and then something happens.
Typically, if they've startedthat process, you can help
them out if you have to.
(29:52):
Twice we have had to transfer eggs forover three hours drive time from an
incubator to a hatcher, so we thinkthey're very tender, but at that age,
at least they handled it very well.
We had as good a hatch afterthe transportation is before.
So I just thought I'd throw thatin there that if something goes
(30:14):
wrong in somebody's incubator, itmay not be the end of the world.
Overheating is much worse than cooling,but don't give up, just keep incubating
and candle them and see if they've made it
So that's the back end of the incubation.
In the beginning I don't know ifyour facilities do this, but I do
(30:35):
know some people ship fertilizedeggs, but that needs to happen
within the first seven days.
Well, the fresher the eggs,the better, because during
shipping, you're using up time.
So when we ship hatching eggs, wetry to ship eggs that are only a day
or two old, three days at the most.
(30:56):
So when the customer receivesthem, they're within the seven
days and they can set them.
Yes, whether they're being shippedor produced on your own place,
it's best to incubate, put themin incubator within seven days.
John or Stephen, any final words of hopefor our listeners who want to incubate
ducks, geese, and guineas at home.
(31:19):
Don't despair if something goes wrong.
Just let the machine keep going,candle the eggs in two or three
days, and you'll find out then if theproblem really did harm the birds.
Don't, don't panic.
Just get it back tonormal and go from there.
And it's better if theyget too cool than too hot.
(31:39):
You go up two degrees, that'll kill them.
Two degrees down is no problemfor a short period of time.
It's a wonderful experiencefor a lot of people.
Stephen?
Yeah, I would say the same thing.
It's just keep track of thedays, temperature, humidity.
Don't get too eager to Break them out,especially with guineas, if you think
(32:00):
they're getting stuck just let them goand, yeah, let them have time to turn, it
might take a while for them to come out,but they, they're pretty hardy, they come
out, it looks like their shells are reallyhard and they're never going to make it,
that you really should do them a favorin helping them, but don't help them too
soon, so, yeah, they'll, they'll come.
(32:22):
Thank you so much, John Metzer fromMetzer Farms and Stephen Horst from Fifth
Day Farm for this great conversation.
Thank you, John and Kenny.
Yep.
Thank you very much.
Thanks again to Brinsea, oursponsor for this Mother Earth
News and Friends podcast episode.
(32:44):
You too can experience the Brinseadifference and maximize your hatch
rates with Brinsea incubators thatmonitor temperature and humidity and
are made of antimicrobial materials.
Brinsea ships worldwide andprovides stellar customer support
to answer all your questions.
Hatch your chicks with Brinsea, theleader in innovative incubation research.
(33:07):
Learn more at Brinsea.com.
Again, that's www.Brinsea.com
Thanks for joining us for this episodeof Mother Earth News and Friends.
To listen to more podcasts and getconnected on our social media, visit www.
(33:28):
motherearthnews.
com slash podcast.
You can also email usat podcast at Ogdenpubs.
com with any questions or suggestions.
Our podcast production teamincludes Kenny Coogan, Alyssa
Warner, and myself, Josh Wilder.
Music for this episode is thesong Hustle by Kevin MacLeod.
The Mother Earth News and Friends podcastis a production of Ogden Publications.
(33:51):
Until next time, don'tforget to love your Mother.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.