February 11, 2025 • 31 mins
A bad diet does not lead to bad behavior. Or does it?
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Listen to Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Don't make us come and find you.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I'm Linda Zimmerman.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Brian Harrowitz, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Is Murder in the Hudson Valley on Hudson River Radio
dot Com. Good evening. Brian is taking the helm tonight
with the what is our topic?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well, the title tonight is unhealthy diets I have. I
had two shorter cases that I couldn't really expand enough
to be a full episode, So I figured out what
they have in common, and we're going to do two
different cases tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's good, all right. I have my pen and notepad here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
All right, these are pretty strike it away, so I
don't think you're going to need a whole lot of notes,
but you're gonna be shaking your head a lot. You
might want to take some advil to go with it,
all right. So our first case, we are going to
start off with a trip to Italy, a place.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I have not yet been.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Have you been to Beautiful?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yes, I never.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Heard a complaint about Italy no, So I'm looking forward
to it. One day I'll actually have the time and
the resources to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But until then, we're going to talk about a murder
in Italy.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Okay, maybe it'll free up some space and scare some
people from going over give me some shoulder room. We
are going to take a prime look at a prime
example of what happens when people ignore the obvious. We
are talking about our suspect, whose name is Marco Mariolini.
Marco was obsessed with women who were skeletal thin, extremely anorexic.
(01:37):
He had a thing for women who were that thin,
that underweight to the point of being unhealthy.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
This was his obsession.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Not only that, he wanted to have control over the
process of getting women to that state. So right off
the bat, we've got a screw loose with this.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Guy, only one screw loose, at least one screw loose
at least.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Marco was married to Lucia, who was his first long
term victim. He forced her to follow a quote unquote
healthy diet, which brought her to near starvation. Lucia survived
off of the occasional cup of tea and small snacks
that Marco would give her, and that was it. Marco
(02:21):
would berate her, insult her, keep her under super tight control,
and Lucia's weight went down to thirty three kilograms, which
is about seventy pounds.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He kept her weight.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Then Lucia got pregnant, and what happens when you get
pregnant You start to gain bit of weight.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yep, you hopefully gain weight for the child's sake.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yes, well and for mom's sake obviously. But at this
point Marco lost interest and let his control slip, and
he moved on and left her. I don't know what
happened to Lucia after that. Unfortunately. I hope she was
a okay after this happened. But he moved on, so
at least it's a step.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
In the right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Marco then met Monica, a twenty nine year old student
who also fit the mold that he was after he
treated her the same way that he treated Lucia. But
it got worse from there. If Monica over ate in
his opinion over eating, he would punch her in the
stomach to make her vomit. He specifically denied any food
(03:29):
that she asked for. He would take her to restaurants
and make her sit there and watch.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Him eat while she got nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And she stayed with him.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Why, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It's one of those things that I wish I could
explain this level of control that some of our suspects
have over people. I'm guessing fear more than anything else.
Why else. One time at one of these restaurants, she
actually said she was going to go to the bathroom.
She snuck into the kitchen and quickly down the plate
(04:01):
of nocchi, which I don't blame her, and Marco found out.
So in the restaurant he berated her. He slapped her
in front of the restaurant's staff and brought her home
and made her sit naked on the cold floor as
punishment for having the nerve to go in and try
to get something to eat. That's how demented Marco.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Was, and she went along with it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
She went along with it. Nobody intervened. Nobody in the
restaurant called it anybody. They didn't call the police. They
kind of sat back and watched.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Why. I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And in Italy, where food is king, I mean, yeah,
that's even more insulting. You're supposed to manga.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, this poor girl that had to sneak into the
kitchen to try to sneak something to eat, and yeah,
so this is one of those you know, you really
should speak up. I'm not saying you need to put
yourself in harm's way, but somebody who knows how to
handle this situation if you see something like this. So,
after months of this torture, Monica had enough.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
She picked up a hammer.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
She struck Marco with it a few times and was
able to run away. It only caused minor injuries to Marco.
I'm guessing she was pretty weak, you know. Yeah, swinging
a hammer takes a little bit of strength, but at least.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
She did it, so good for her.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Good for her.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Then she did the right thing.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
She reported herself to the police for doing that. She
told them the whole story of everything that he did,
all the torture that he put her through, everything that
happened between the two, and she was then placed on
house arrest. Believe it or not, she had to go
(05:46):
stay in the house where this all happened with him
with him. She had to go back into the house
with Marco. How bad is that?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's that's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, guess what Marco did next. What usually happens, She died.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
She died.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Marco in a few months after this, he just lost
his mind and he stabbed Monica twenty two times. But
I skipped something. I skipped the paragraph. It's gonna make
it even worse. Before this happened nineteen ninety seven, Marco
(06:30):
wrote a book about his story called The Anorexic Hunter.
He openly detailed his obsession with anorexic women. He described
the physical and psychological torture that he inflicted on these women.
He described himself as a potential serial killer. And people
bought the book, so they read about his whole story,
(06:53):
but nobody took any action.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
This is mind blowing, right.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
He actually published a book that was a seller. How
insane is that? So now we're looking about a year later.
This is when Marco went into a fit of rage
and stabbed Demonica twenty two times. She died from those injuries,
which was a completely preventable murder. The public in Italy
were shocked that this kind of thing would even happen,
(07:21):
even though there was a victim who went to the
authorities and said, this is happening, this.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is what happened to me, and.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So put him back with the put her back with
her back.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
With him, yep.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And a suspect who said this is what I am,
this is the kind of person I am, and people
were shocked about that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Blows your mind, right, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
In two thousand Marco went to prison on a thirty
year sentence. He did a TV interview in twenty fifteen
where he said in the interview, if I get out
of prison, I will do it again. So guess what
happened in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
He got out of prison and again.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well, he got out of prison over a combination of
good behavior and some sort of inhumane condition within the
prisons in Italy.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't know what kind of conditions specifically, but.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Something enough to get him out. But he left prison
and was placed in a psychiatric facility. So he is
not out in public. He is still separated from the
public and for some reason his whereabouts are not publicly available.
I'm guessing some privacy issues, you know, within Italian law.
So he is not out in public, thank god, but
(08:34):
he is nuts. Side note, if you look up Marco
Marco Mariolini, he had grown a beard, but then he
shaved half of it off and I don't mean half
the length, I mean vertical half one half of it
side to side, and that's how he did this. This interview,
and there's no explanation for it. There's no reason why
(08:56):
he did that. You know, it reminded me. I don't
know if you've ever seen it. Back in twenty fifteen,
there was a TV series called The Last Man on Earth.
It was on Fox. I don't know if you've seen
it or heard of it. Will Forte was the star.
He played the character Tandy Miller. So the idea of
the show was that it took place in twenty twenty.
(09:19):
A virus, see if this sounds familiar. A virus wiped
out most of the people on Earth. He thought he
was the last man on Earth. And then he winds
up finding a few other people who survived this virus,
and it's their story of a very small group of
people that survived. It happened right at COVID. It just
happened to coincide. So good timing, Yeah, good timing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Great show.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I think it's still available on streaming. The Last Man
on Earth. It's great. But in one show, his brother
actually plays a joke on him while he's sleeping and
shaves off half his beard and his head. So he
wakes up and looks in the mirror and half is
full grown mountain man beard and the other half is
nothing odd.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's exactly what Marco looks like. And I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Why because he's nuts.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Because he's nuts.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, he's nuts. So that's case number one. How would
you like to take a break?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I think we need one.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
All right, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And we are back. And for some reason, I'm a
little hungry.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Brian Noki sounds good.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, nochi, although I maybe it. Actually I lost my
appetite because this the insanity. A known abuser woman tries,
finally gets the courage to leave, and is legally forced
to go back, put her in jail, protect her.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, she would have been better off going to prison, yes,
then going back to house arrest. And a suspect who
publishes a book right saying this is me, this is
what I am, and here we are and nobody does
anything and who knows how much money he made off
of his book, which was also turned into a movie
by the way, in two thousand and four, So I'm
(11:20):
assuming he got money.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
For that too.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh yes, yeah, oh yes, yep. All right, what's the
next staggravator.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Are you ready for this one?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Have you heard of the case of James Oliver Huberty
h U b E r.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
T y not with a P.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No, that doesn't ring a bell.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay, well, get ready for this one. James was born
in nineteen forty two in Canton, Ohio. He contracted polio
as a child and had some difficulty walking for the
rest of his life because of it. Unfortunately not uncommon
at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
When he was.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Young, his father decided to buy a farm in Pennsylvania
Amish Country move out there. He was quite religious. His
mother adamantly refused to move there and wound up leaving
the family. James, as a youngster obviously did not handle
that well.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
To be expected.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
As he was growing up, as often happens on a farm,
he became proficient in firearms. Not necessarily unusual, but it
will come into play later on. James actually went on
to earn a bachelor's degree in sociology from Malone College
and then went on to get his embalmber's license at
the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. So he was I
(12:34):
don't know if that's the same as a funeral director,
but he was able to perform the duties in a
funeral home of embalming and all.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
While there, he met his future wife, Etna. Etna not
the old insurance company. She turned out to be almost
as messed up as James is gonna be. So a
match made in purgatory, I guess somewhere in between.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
They had two daughters and later moved to Massillone, Ohio,
where James worked as an undertaker. Unfortunately, a fire destroyed
their house, so they wound up moving back to James's
original hometown of Canton.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Ohio, where he got a job as a welder.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
James and Ettna had an extensive history of domestic violence
between the two, so they know that they knew the
local police pretty well, and they knew they knew them.
They also had problems with the neighbors, and they had
problems with the parents of the other kids in their
daughter's school. So I'm sure they were just completely beloved
in their community. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
You can't. Unfortunately, you can't choose your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That is true, up to a point. Up to a point.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, they wound up threatening with firearms. They wound
up threatening neighbors dogs.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
They wound up.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, it turned into a big mess between these two
so lovely people all around. James, in addition to being
a welder, got side jobs, but he couldn't keep any
of them. He wound up getting fired from all of them.
By the early nineteen eighties, James started to believe a
little bit of craziness that the Federal Reserve system was
(14:10):
being manipulated by foreign countries and purposely bankrupting businesses in
the US, which, you know what, maybe.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
He's right, I don't know, Yeah, maybe not so crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
In his world it was a little bit nuts.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Right, I mean, and this is his concern.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Why I had nothing better to do, because he wasn't
going to he kept getting fired. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
He also might want to concentrate on your putting food
on the table. Yeah, holding down a job.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yep. Well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
He also started to believe that the Soviet Union was
also to blame for some of the country's financial problems,
which again I don't know, maybe maybe not. This is
you know, this is the height of the Cold War
where we were all afraid of the Soviet Union. I
was in elementary school at the time, and we did
you know the air rag drills and.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Duck and Cover.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, because the desk is going to stop nuclear fallout, right,
and standing in the hallway with your hands over your
neck was going to stop any harm from the cinder
blocks coming crashing down on you.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah. I just saw Duck and Covered today on TV
and I love the scene with the picnic. I don't
know if you were kids, grab that, grab the tablecloth
to put over, and the husband puts a newspaper on
his head. Yes, because that will save him from severe burns.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It will absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Or the newsprint will be seared into his charcoal flat exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. You look back on some of
those videos and it's great. I love watching some of
those old ones. So James wound up turning into a survivalist.
He bought a ton of non perishable food and six
firearms to go with it, because five is not enough now,
(16:03):
I would you know it's easier to carry an even
number three on each side.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I suppose for some reason he lost it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
No, not for some reason, but he lost his job
as a welder because he had problems with lingering from
polio as a kid. But then he got into a
motorcycle accident and it injured one of his arms, so
he couldn't hold his arm steady. He wound up shaking,
which you can't really do as a welder. So unfortunately
he lost that job. That one wasn't his fault. The
other ones, I'm guessing were his fault. In nineteen eighty four,
(16:34):
the family ultimately moved to the San A Sidro. I
hope I'm saying that right y s I doro O.
I assume a Sidrow neighborhood in San Diego, California, where
he got a job as a security guard. He got
fired from that in early July of nineteen eighty four.
They apparently also owned a six apartment building in a
(16:57):
building with six apartments in it. They were supposed to
sell that, I'm assuming because they had to at this
point just to make ends meet, and the sale of
that fell through, leaving him with some legal issues and
more debt, I'm guessing, which just compounded his problems. And
this is when things really started to go south. On
(17:17):
July fifteenth, nineteen eighty four, James told Edna that he
thought he was having some mental health issues, and he
was right. So you kind of got to give him
a little credit for this.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, what was his first clue?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, Well, you know what, the ones having the
mental health issues don't always realize it now people near
them that need to kind of step in sometimes. But
I'll give him a little bit of credit because he
realized that something was wrong and he told his wife
about it. Two days later, July seventeenth, nineteen eighty four,
James Huberty called a mental health clinic looking for an appointment.
(17:52):
The secretary operator misspelled his name as Schuberty with.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
An sh and when he was.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
On the phone, he specifically stated that this was not
an emergency, and he was calm, he was polite, he
wasn't upsetting on the phone. He's just trying to make
an appointment. So the operator handled it as she was
supposed to, as a non crisis inquiry that was supposed
to be handled within the next forty eight hours, so
they were supposed to call him back within two days.
(18:23):
Well that wasn't a fast enough for him. The next day,
July eighteenth, nineteen eighty four, he took the family to
the San Diego Zoo. They had lunch at a local
McDonald's and then they went home. James changed into camouflage clothing,
loaded up all his weapons, had a duffel bag of supplies,
(18:43):
and started to head out. Ed asked what he was doing,
and James said, I'm going to hunt humans. I'm hunting humans.
Didn't take him seriously, which she should have. She didn't
call anybody, she didn't say anything. She apparently laid down
(19:04):
to take a nap. After a long day of being
at the zoo and going to McDonald's and James left.
James scoped out a supermarket nearby. He scoped out the
local post office, and then decided to go to a
different McDonald's in the neighborhood other than the one where
they went to lunch, and he decided to make that
(19:24):
McDonald's his target.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This McDonald's, believe it or not, was only.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
About two hundred yards away from the family apartment where
they were living, so right down the street.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Not that fright.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
He pulled into the parking lot, got out with all
of his weapons, all of his fire arms and plain sight.
He wasn't hiding anything. One witness called the police but
gave the wrong address. Ah, so there was a delay,
and just before four pm, James walked into the McDonald's
ordered everybody to lie down and started to shoot everybody.
(19:56):
He shot at people who tried to escape, He shot
at people out in the parking lot through the glass.
He was shooting at the workers. Anybody who was begging
got shot multiple times, point blank. And you can actually
go online and read the you know, in chronological order,
whose victims were one at a time, and it's just horrifying.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, a little too much detail for here. I
would say.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
At four oh seven, about seven minutes later, give or
take seven to ten minutes later, officer Miguel Rosario arrived
on scene alone. That seems like a long response time,
but remember this is nineteen eighty four. There were no
cell phones, you know, there was You had to get
to a landline, you had to get to a phone booth,
you had to get something. Anybody in the store that
(20:42):
moved was getting shot. Anybody outside I don't know. I
don't know if there was a payphone nearby. I don't
know who ultimately wound up calling and notifying the police.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
But you know, so that was kind of.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
A long response time, but we can kind of understand why,
because it would take that long to notify the police
and this officer showed up, he was alone the first responder,
Officer Rosario. James saw the police car. He walked outside
with his Uzi nine millimeter and started to shoot at
the officer and at the police car. So Officer Rosario
(21:16):
was absolutely outgne only had was a pistol, probably a
revolver at that time, still in the eighties. He was
completely outgunned and he didn't know what was going on inside.
He didn't know if there were multiple shooters, if this
is just one of many, if this is the only shooter.
So he wound up having to take cover behind a
pickup truck in the parking lot, and there was unfortunately
(21:36):
not a lot he could do. Procedures at the time
were a little different than they are now, which we
can talk about. But he called for the swat team
and just stayed under cover, and ultimately one of the
swat team members of Snipers, Officer Chuck Foster, was able
to get into a good position on the post office,
(21:57):
the roof of the post office, which was basically us
the street, and he had a good you know, he
was able to get a good sight on James, who
was now back inside that McDonald's authorization from the higher
ups came for any law enforcement that they can kill James.
We knew who the shooter was, so that authorization came down.
(22:19):
That was given at five oh five pm, So we're
looking at almost an hour at this point of swat
holding down everything inside. Again, nobody knew if there was
just one shooter of multiple.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Nobody really knew.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
All the glass was shattered, so to see into that
McDonald's was just about impossible because the glass was spidered,
not necessarily knocked out of the window frame. And at
five sixteen pm, the sniper officer Foster was able to
shoot James through a glass window, one shot center mass
in the chest and was able to kill James almost instantly.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So they know their business.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, so excellent shot. And I think we're gonna leave
in suspense right now for just a moment.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
What do you think sounds like a time for a break.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
All right, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So we have another crazy person who decides to go
hunt humans at a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, and gay fair warning ask for help, which again
I will have to give him credit for you know,
if that was handled immediately, who knew, who knows, who
knows what he could be.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
He may have wanted to make that appointment a little
more urgently.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, yep, but you know it bears some responsibility here.
I'm going out to hunt humans. Is what we call
a clue that there might be something wrong with six
firearms and a Douffel bag of supplies in fatigues, camouflage, fatigues.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, that living with the guy, she had to know
exactly something was off exactly. So in the end, James
James Huberty wound up killing twenty one people. Wow, he
injured nineteen more, and he fired a total of two
hundred and fifty seven rounds, all within just less than
an hour, about forty five minutes, forty nine minutes.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Here's the kicker. You're gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
In nineteen eighty six, Etna, his wife, tried to sue
McDonald's and the company where he worked as a welder,
saying that the combination of the poor diet of chicken
McNuggets and the heavy metals that James was exposed to
as a welder caused James's mental illness.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
The infamous McNugget defense.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
McNugget defense.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yep, there was so much mono sodium glutimate in the
chicken McNuggets that that which we know is nothing. It's
a natural substance that makes things.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Oh it's something A lot that's MSG does a number
on me, as does aspartame.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Okay, we'll argue another time. Yes, yes, so she didn't win,
Thank god, because what a bunch of nonsense.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I know.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, that got dismissed. But the autopsy did show that
James had high levels of lead and cadmium in his
body from being a welder, and lead we know can
cause a lot of brain damage. Sure that much about cadmium,
but apparently he wasn't given the respiratory protection that he
should have been as a welder. I don't know if
that was standard in the eighties or if he just
(25:38):
took it upon himself to not use what was available that.
I don't know which way that went. I would hope
things are a little bit different now. I would assume
they are. Little ocean regulation. Perhaps Edna died from breast
cancer in two thousand and three. The McDonald's where this
all happened within two days was refurbished and cleaned up,
(26:00):
but McDonald's Corporation decided not to open the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah I think it's twenty one death yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yes, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
The initial plan was just to continue on as normal,
and they realized that no, not so much.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
They want not a happy meal to be had there, right.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They donated the property to the city with the stipulation
that a restaurant can't be built here. Yeah, you know,
so it was donated to the city. The city wound
up selling it and it became a education center for
the Southwest Community College. And there's a memorial at front
they put out at front of the property, which is
(26:42):
which is good. The mental health of the responding officers
who were all involved in this was actually addressed by
the San Diego Police Department, so I will give them credit.
This is all the way back in the eighties, so
they recognized PTSD symptoms from police officers, and the department
started to better equip their officers to handle these types
(27:03):
of incidents. You know, it was kind of the norm
that you had your revolver at the time, maybe semi
automatic pistol and that was it. Maybe a shotgun in
the car, maybe not. And you know how proficient were
these officers. You know, shotguns are not meant for a
long distance, They're really meant for close up.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So, yeah, a shotgun with.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
A revolver against an UZI you ever ever shot an oozy?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I have?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yes, so have I?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yes, I say fondly. Yeah, just a target.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
But and uh yeah, so you know, unfortunately you need
these kind of disasters for something positive to come out. Unfortunately,
this is the catalyst for a lot of agencies who
are more concerned about budgets than safety to take the
steps of of making things better. You know, as far
(27:56):
as SWAT response that kind of thing, it's handled differently now.
You know, if you have an active shooter situation, there's
no sitting there and waiting for somebody of authority to
tell you to go ahead. There's really no more of
sitting there waiting for SWAT to even respond. If there's
an active shooter situation, you.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Know, it's handled much differently. There's no sitting in waiting anymore.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, you know, to stop more people getting hurt, but
how about the people who need medical attention?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Stopping this in every minute counts exactly, So things are
handled differently than they were in the eighties, and I
get where they were coming from back then, and you know,
issues a liability and all that, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, and look at the crazy wife suing prize. They
didn't surprise she didn't sue the police department, although she
probably tried.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Probably I wouldn't be surprised, but good luck, you know, Yeah,
that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Going to go anywhere either.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Unfortunately, this incident seemed to be the one that set
off a string of mass shootings in the eighties into
the nineties, specifically the postal shootings where we got the
going postal term from. This was the one that kind
of seemed to set it off and plant the ideas
into some other people's minds to take this kind of action,
(29:12):
and it's it's sad, but that's something that we should
probably look into in future episodes. All the post office
incidents is going postal, well, going postal.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, I think we have another episode and.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think probably a couple.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, so James seems to be the
one that set off this kind of thing, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
And you know that it's just it's you know, we
do a lot of murder things with innocent victims. Sometimes
there you know, involved in something. But this you're going
to McDonald's, get something to eat, you're bringing your family,
and then this happens out of the blue, random.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah. Yeah, it's terrifying, awful, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And you know, cases down the road, the court upheld
that you know, people sued McDonald's and the court upheld
that really McDonald's has no liability and no duty to
provide some level of protection above the basics.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know, are you going.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To have armed guards at every restaurant?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Are you gonna you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, you can't expect that.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
No, no, no, So there you go, unhealthy dive. All right,
bring us out, all right, Well, thank you for sitting
through all that. We appreciate everybody tuning in. And as
Linda said before, well, first off.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
We got to promote your books.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Go on Amazon, look up Linda Zimmerman because Blinda has
what thirty something books, yeah, with one more in the works.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So on, so many different topics. So support your.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Local authors by buying every one of them right from Linda.
And then after you've done reading, go back and binge
all the old murders in the Hudson Valley that you
haven't haven't yet listened to, so all right, thank you
everybody for joining us. We will see you here next time.
If you are not a victim of murder in the
Hudson Valley.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com m
Listen to Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Don't make us come and find you.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
I'm Linda Zimmerman.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm Brian Harrowitz, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Is Murder in the Hudson Valley on Hudson River Radio
dot Com. Good evening. Brian is taking the helm tonight
with the what is our topic?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Well, the title tonight is unhealthy diets I have. I
had two shorter cases that I couldn't really expand enough
to be a full episode, So I figured out what
they have in common, and we're going to do two
different cases tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's good, all right. I have my pen and notepad here.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
All right, these are pretty strike it away, so I
don't think you're going to need a whole lot of notes,
but you're gonna be shaking your head a lot. You
might want to take some advil to go with it,
all right. So our first case, we are going to
start off with a trip to Italy, a place.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I have not yet been.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Have you been to Beautiful?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yes, I never.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Heard a complaint about Italy no, So I'm looking forward
to it. One day I'll actually have the time and
the resources to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But until then, we're going to talk about a murder
in Italy.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Okay, maybe it'll free up some space and scare some
people from going over give me some shoulder room. We
are going to take a prime look at a prime
example of what happens when people ignore the obvious. We
are talking about our suspect, whose name is Marco Mariolini.
Marco was obsessed with women who were skeletal thin, extremely anorexic.
(01:37):
He had a thing for women who were that thin,
that underweight to the point of being unhealthy.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
This was his obsession.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Not only that, he wanted to have control over the
process of getting women to that state. So right off
the bat, we've got a screw loose with this.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Guy, only one screw loose, at least one screw loose
at least.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Marco was married to Lucia, who was his first long
term victim. He forced her to follow a quote unquote
healthy diet, which brought her to near starvation. Lucia survived
off of the occasional cup of tea and small snacks
that Marco would give her, and that was it. Marco
(02:21):
would berate her, insult her, keep her under super tight control,
and Lucia's weight went down to thirty three kilograms, which
is about seventy pounds.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's fine.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
He kept her weight.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Then Lucia got pregnant, and what happens when you get
pregnant You start to gain bit of weight.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yep, you hopefully gain weight for the child's sake.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yes, well and for mom's sake obviously. But at this
point Marco lost interest and let his control slip, and
he moved on and left her. I don't know what
happened to Lucia after that. Unfortunately. I hope she was
a okay after this happened. But he moved on, so
at least it's a step.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
In the right direction.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Marco then met Monica, a twenty nine year old student
who also fit the mold that he was after he
treated her the same way that he treated Lucia. But
it got worse from there. If Monica over ate in
his opinion over eating, he would punch her in the
stomach to make her vomit. He specifically denied any food
(03:29):
that she asked for. He would take her to restaurants
and make her sit there and watch.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Him eat while she got nothing.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
And she stayed with him.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Why, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It's one of those things that I wish I could
explain this level of control that some of our suspects
have over people. I'm guessing fear more than anything else.
Why else. One time at one of these restaurants, she
actually said she was going to go to the bathroom.
She snuck into the kitchen and quickly down the plate
(04:01):
of nocchi, which I don't blame her, and Marco found out.
So in the restaurant he berated her. He slapped her
in front of the restaurant's staff and brought her home
and made her sit naked on the cold floor as
punishment for having the nerve to go in and try
to get something to eat. That's how demented Marco.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Was, and she went along with it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
She went along with it. Nobody intervened. Nobody in the
restaurant called it anybody. They didn't call the police. They
kind of sat back and watched.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Why. I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And in Italy, where food is king, I mean, yeah,
that's even more insulting. You're supposed to manga.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, this poor girl that had to sneak into the
kitchen to try to sneak something to eat, and yeah,
so this is one of those you know, you really
should speak up. I'm not saying you need to put
yourself in harm's way, but somebody who knows how to
handle this situation if you see something like this. So,
after months of this torture, Monica had enough.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
She picked up a hammer.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
She struck Marco with it a few times and was
able to run away. It only caused minor injuries to Marco.
I'm guessing she was pretty weak, you know. Yeah, swinging
a hammer takes a little bit of strength, but at least.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
She did it, so good for her.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Good for her.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Then she did the right thing.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
She reported herself to the police for doing that. She
told them the whole story of everything that he did,
all the torture that he put her through, everything that
happened between the two, and she was then placed on
house arrest. Believe it or not, she had to go
(05:46):
stay in the house where this all happened with him
with him. She had to go back into the house
with Marco. How bad is that?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It's that's insane.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, guess what Marco did next. What usually happens, She died.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
She died.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Marco in a few months after this, he just lost
his mind and he stabbed Monica twenty two times. But
I skipped something. I skipped the paragraph. It's gonna make
it even worse. Before this happened nineteen ninety seven, Marco
(06:30):
wrote a book about his story called The Anorexic Hunter.
He openly detailed his obsession with anorexic women. He described
the physical and psychological torture that he inflicted on these women.
He described himself as a potential serial killer. And people
bought the book, so they read about his whole story,
(06:53):
but nobody took any action.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
This is mind blowing, right.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
He actually published a book that was a seller. How
insane is that? So now we're looking about a year later.
This is when Marco went into a fit of rage
and stabbed Demonica twenty two times. She died from those injuries,
which was a completely preventable murder. The public in Italy
were shocked that this kind of thing would even happen,
(07:21):
even though there was a victim who went to the
authorities and said, this is happening, this.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is what happened to me, and.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So put him back with the put her back with
her back.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
With him, yep.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And a suspect who said this is what I am,
this is the kind of person I am, and people
were shocked about that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Blows your mind, right, yes, So.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
In two thousand Marco went to prison on a thirty
year sentence. He did a TV interview in twenty fifteen
where he said in the interview, if I get out
of prison, I will do it again. So guess what
happened in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
He got out of prison and again.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well, he got out of prison over a combination of
good behavior and some sort of inhumane condition within the
prisons in Italy.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't know what kind of conditions specifically, but.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Something enough to get him out. But he left prison
and was placed in a psychiatric facility. So he is
not out in public. He is still separated from the
public and for some reason his whereabouts are not publicly available.
I'm guessing some privacy issues, you know, within Italian law.
So he is not out in public, thank god, but
(08:34):
he is nuts. Side note, if you look up Marco
Marco Mariolini, he had grown a beard, but then he
shaved half of it off and I don't mean half
the length, I mean vertical half one half of it
side to side, and that's how he did this. This interview,
and there's no explanation for it. There's no reason why
(08:56):
he did that. You know, it reminded me. I don't
know if you've ever seen it. Back in twenty fifteen,
there was a TV series called The Last Man on Earth.
It was on Fox. I don't know if you've seen
it or heard of it. Will Forte was the star.
He played the character Tandy Miller. So the idea of
the show was that it took place in twenty twenty.
(09:19):
A virus, see if this sounds familiar. A virus wiped
out most of the people on Earth. He thought he
was the last man on Earth. And then he winds
up finding a few other people who survived this virus,
and it's their story of a very small group of
people that survived. It happened right at COVID. It just
happened to coincide. So good timing, Yeah, good timing.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Great show.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I think it's still available on streaming. The Last Man
on Earth. It's great. But in one show, his brother
actually plays a joke on him while he's sleeping and
shaves off half his beard and his head. So he
wakes up and looks in the mirror and half is
full grown mountain man beard and the other half is
nothing odd.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's exactly what Marco looks like. And I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Why because he's nuts.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Because he's nuts.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, he's nuts. So that's case number one. How would
you like to take a break?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I think we need one.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
All right, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Hudson Riverradio dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And we are back. And for some reason, I'm a
little hungry.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Brian Noki sounds good.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, nochi, although I maybe it. Actually I lost my
appetite because this the insanity. A known abuser woman tries,
finally gets the courage to leave, and is legally forced
to go back, put her in jail, protect her.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, she would have been better off going to prison, yes,
then going back to house arrest. And a suspect who
publishes a book right saying this is me, this is
what I am, and here we are and nobody does
anything and who knows how much money he made off
of his book, which was also turned into a movie
by the way, in two thousand and four, So I'm
(11:20):
assuming he got money.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
For that too.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Oh yes, yeah, oh yes, yep. All right, what's the
next staggravator.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Are you ready for this one?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Have you heard of the case of James Oliver Huberty
h U b E r.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
T y not with a P.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
No, that doesn't ring a bell.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Okay, well, get ready for this one. James was born
in nineteen forty two in Canton, Ohio. He contracted polio
as a child and had some difficulty walking for the
rest of his life because of it. Unfortunately not uncommon
at the time.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
When he was.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Young, his father decided to buy a farm in Pennsylvania
Amish Country move out there. He was quite religious. His
mother adamantly refused to move there and wound up leaving
the family. James, as a youngster obviously did not handle
that well.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
To be expected.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
As he was growing up, as often happens on a farm,
he became proficient in firearms. Not necessarily unusual, but it
will come into play later on. James actually went on
to earn a bachelor's degree in sociology from Malone College
and then went on to get his embalmber's license at
the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. So he was I
(12:34):
don't know if that's the same as a funeral director,
but he was able to perform the duties in a
funeral home of embalming and all.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
While there, he met his future wife, Etna. Etna not
the old insurance company. She turned out to be almost
as messed up as James is gonna be. So a
match made in purgatory, I guess somewhere in between.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
They had two daughters and later moved to Massillone, Ohio,
where James worked as an undertaker. Unfortunately, a fire destroyed
their house, so they wound up moving back to James's
original hometown of Canton.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Ohio, where he got a job as a welder.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
James and Ettna had an extensive history of domestic violence
between the two, so they know that they knew the
local police pretty well, and they knew they knew them.
They also had problems with the neighbors, and they had
problems with the parents of the other kids in their
daughter's school. So I'm sure they were just completely beloved
in their community. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
You can't. Unfortunately, you can't choose your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That is true, up to a point. Up to a point.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know, they wound up threatening with firearms. They wound
up threatening neighbors dogs.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
They wound up.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, it turned into a big mess between these two
so lovely people all around. James, in addition to being
a welder, got side jobs, but he couldn't keep any
of them. He wound up getting fired from all of them.
By the early nineteen eighties, James started to believe a
little bit of craziness that the Federal Reserve system was
(14:10):
being manipulated by foreign countries and purposely bankrupting businesses in
the US, which, you know what, maybe.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
He's right, I don't know, Yeah, maybe not so crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
In his world it was a little bit nuts.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Right, I mean, and this is his concern.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Why I had nothing better to do, because he wasn't
going to he kept getting fired. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
He also might want to concentrate on your putting food
on the table. Yeah, holding down a job.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yep. Well.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
He also started to believe that the Soviet Union was
also to blame for some of the country's financial problems,
which again I don't know, maybe maybe not. This is
you know, this is the height of the Cold War
where we were all afraid of the Soviet Union. I
was in elementary school at the time, and we did
you know the air rag drills and.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Duck and Cover.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, because the desk is going to stop nuclear fallout, right,
and standing in the hallway with your hands over your
neck was going to stop any harm from the cinder
blocks coming crashing down on you.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah. I just saw Duck and Covered today on TV
and I love the scene with the picnic. I don't
know if you were kids, grab that, grab the tablecloth
to put over, and the husband puts a newspaper on
his head. Yes, because that will save him from severe burns.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It will absolutely.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Or the newsprint will be seared into his charcoal flat exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. You look back on some of
those videos and it's great. I love watching some of
those old ones. So James wound up turning into a survivalist.
He bought a ton of non perishable food and six
firearms to go with it, because five is not enough now,
(16:03):
I would you know it's easier to carry an even
number three on each side.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I suppose for some reason he lost it.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
No, not for some reason, but he lost his job
as a welder because he had problems with lingering from
polio as a kid. But then he got into a
motorcycle accident and it injured one of his arms, so
he couldn't hold his arm steady. He wound up shaking,
which you can't really do as a welder. So unfortunately
he lost that job. That one wasn't his fault. The
other ones, I'm guessing were his fault. In nineteen eighty four,
(16:34):
the family ultimately moved to the San A Sidro. I
hope I'm saying that right y s I doro O.
I assume a Sidrow neighborhood in San Diego, California, where
he got a job as a security guard. He got
fired from that in early July of nineteen eighty four.
They apparently also owned a six apartment building in a
(16:57):
building with six apartments in it. They were supposed to
sell that, I'm assuming because they had to at this
point just to make ends meet, and the sale of
that fell through, leaving him with some legal issues and
more debt, I'm guessing, which just compounded his problems. And
this is when things really started to go south. On
(17:17):
July fifteenth, nineteen eighty four, James told Edna that he
thought he was having some mental health issues, and he
was right. So you kind of got to give him
a little credit for this.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, what was his first clue?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, Well, you know what, the ones having the
mental health issues don't always realize it now people near
them that need to kind of step in sometimes. But
I'll give him a little bit of credit because he
realized that something was wrong and he told his wife
about it. Two days later, July seventeenth, nineteen eighty four,
James Huberty called a mental health clinic looking for an appointment.
(17:52):
The secretary operator misspelled his name as Schuberty with.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
An sh and when he was.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
On the phone, he specifically stated that this was not
an emergency, and he was calm, he was polite, he
wasn't upsetting on the phone. He's just trying to make
an appointment. So the operator handled it as she was
supposed to, as a non crisis inquiry that was supposed
to be handled within the next forty eight hours, so
they were supposed to call him back within two days.
(18:23):
Well that wasn't a fast enough for him. The next day,
July eighteenth, nineteen eighty four, he took the family to
the San Diego Zoo. They had lunch at a local
McDonald's and then they went home. James changed into camouflage clothing,
loaded up all his weapons, had a duffel bag of supplies,
(18:43):
and started to head out. Ed asked what he was doing,
and James said, I'm going to hunt humans. I'm hunting humans.
Didn't take him seriously, which she should have. She didn't
call anybody, she didn't say anything. She apparently laid down
(19:04):
to take a nap. After a long day of being
at the zoo and going to McDonald's and James left.
James scoped out a supermarket nearby. He scoped out the
local post office, and then decided to go to a
different McDonald's in the neighborhood other than the one where
they went to lunch, and he decided to make that
(19:24):
McDonald's his target.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
This McDonald's, believe it or not, was only.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
About two hundred yards away from the family apartment where
they were living, so right down the street.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Not that fright.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
He pulled into the parking lot, got out with all
of his weapons, all of his fire arms and plain sight.
He wasn't hiding anything. One witness called the police but
gave the wrong address. Ah, so there was a delay,
and just before four pm, James walked into the McDonald's
ordered everybody to lie down and started to shoot everybody.
(19:56):
He shot at people who tried to escape, He shot
at people out in the parking lot through the glass.
He was shooting at the workers. Anybody who was begging
got shot multiple times, point blank. And you can actually
go online and read the you know, in chronological order,
whose victims were one at a time, and it's just horrifying.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know, a little too much detail for here. I
would say.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
At four oh seven, about seven minutes later, give or
take seven to ten minutes later, officer Miguel Rosario arrived
on scene alone. That seems like a long response time,
but remember this is nineteen eighty four. There were no
cell phones, you know, there was You had to get
to a landline, you had to get to a phone booth,
you had to get something. Anybody in the store that
(20:42):
moved was getting shot. Anybody outside I don't know. I
don't know if there was a payphone nearby. I don't
know who ultimately wound up calling and notifying the police.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
But you know, so that was kind of.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
A long response time, but we can kind of understand why,
because it would take that long to notify the police
and this officer showed up, he was alone the first responder,
Officer Rosario. James saw the police car. He walked outside
with his Uzi nine millimeter and started to shoot at
the officer and at the police car. So Officer Rosario
(21:16):
was absolutely outgne only had was a pistol, probably a
revolver at that time, still in the eighties. He was
completely outgunned and he didn't know what was going on inside.
He didn't know if there were multiple shooters, if this
is just one of many, if this is the only shooter.
So he wound up having to take cover behind a
pickup truck in the parking lot, and there was unfortunately
(21:36):
not a lot he could do. Procedures at the time
were a little different than they are now, which we
can talk about. But he called for the swat team
and just stayed under cover, and ultimately one of the
swat team members of Snipers, Officer Chuck Foster, was able
to get into a good position on the post office,
(21:57):
the roof of the post office, which was basically us
the street, and he had a good you know, he
was able to get a good sight on James, who
was now back inside that McDonald's authorization from the higher
ups came for any law enforcement that they can kill James.
We knew who the shooter was, so that authorization came down.
(22:19):
That was given at five oh five pm, So we're
looking at almost an hour at this point of swat
holding down everything inside. Again, nobody knew if there was
just one shooter of multiple.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Nobody really knew.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
All the glass was shattered, so to see into that
McDonald's was just about impossible because the glass was spidered,
not necessarily knocked out of the window frame. And at
five sixteen pm, the sniper officer Foster was able to
shoot James through a glass window, one shot center mass
in the chest and was able to kill James almost instantly.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So they know their business.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, so excellent shot. And I think we're gonna leave
in suspense right now for just a moment.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
What do you think sounds like a time for a break.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
All right, we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
So we have another crazy person who decides to go
hunt humans at a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, and gay fair warning ask for help, which again
I will have to give him credit for you know,
if that was handled immediately, who knew, who knows, who
knows what he could be.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
He may have wanted to make that appointment a little
more urgently.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, yep, but you know it bears some responsibility here.
I'm going out to hunt humans. Is what we call
a clue that there might be something wrong with six
firearms and a Douffel bag of supplies in fatigues, camouflage, fatigues.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, that living with the guy, she had to know
exactly something was off exactly. So in the end, James
James Huberty wound up killing twenty one people. Wow, he
injured nineteen more, and he fired a total of two
hundred and fifty seven rounds, all within just less than
an hour, about forty five minutes, forty nine minutes.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Here's the kicker. You're gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
In nineteen eighty six, Etna, his wife, tried to sue
McDonald's and the company where he worked as a welder,
saying that the combination of the poor diet of chicken
McNuggets and the heavy metals that James was exposed to
as a welder caused James's mental illness.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
The infamous McNugget defense.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
McNugget defense.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yep, there was so much mono sodium glutimate in the
chicken McNuggets that that which we know is nothing. It's
a natural substance that makes things.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Oh it's something A lot that's MSG does a number
on me, as does aspartame.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Okay, we'll argue another time. Yes, yes, so she didn't win,
Thank god, because what a bunch of nonsense.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I know.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, that got dismissed. But the autopsy did show that
James had high levels of lead and cadmium in his
body from being a welder, and lead we know can
cause a lot of brain damage. Sure that much about cadmium,
but apparently he wasn't given the respiratory protection that he
should have been as a welder. I don't know if
that was standard in the eighties or if he just
(25:38):
took it upon himself to not use what was available that.
I don't know which way that went. I would hope
things are a little bit different now. I would assume
they are. Little ocean regulation. Perhaps Edna died from breast
cancer in two thousand and three. The McDonald's where this
all happened within two days was refurbished and cleaned up,
(26:00):
but McDonald's Corporation decided not to open the restaurant.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah I think it's twenty one death yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yes, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
The initial plan was just to continue on as normal,
and they realized that no, not so much.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
They want not a happy meal to be had there, right.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They donated the property to the city with the stipulation
that a restaurant can't be built here. Yeah, you know,
so it was donated to the city. The city wound
up selling it and it became a education center for
the Southwest Community College. And there's a memorial at front
they put out at front of the property, which is
(26:42):
which is good. The mental health of the responding officers
who were all involved in this was actually addressed by
the San Diego Police Department, so I will give them credit.
This is all the way back in the eighties, so
they recognized PTSD symptoms from police officers, and the department
started to better equip their officers to handle these types
(27:03):
of incidents. You know, it was kind of the norm
that you had your revolver at the time, maybe semi
automatic pistol and that was it. Maybe a shotgun in
the car, maybe not. And you know how proficient were
these officers. You know, shotguns are not meant for a
long distance, They're really meant for close up.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
So, yeah, a shotgun with.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
A revolver against an UZI you ever ever shot an oozy?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I have?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yes, so have I?
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yes, I say fondly. Yeah, just a target.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
But and uh yeah, so you know, unfortunately you need
these kind of disasters for something positive to come out. Unfortunately,
this is the catalyst for a lot of agencies who
are more concerned about budgets than safety to take the
steps of of making things better. You know, as far
(27:56):
as SWAT response that kind of thing, it's handled differently now.
You know, if you have an active shooter situation, there's
no sitting there and waiting for somebody of authority to
tell you to go ahead. There's really no more of
sitting there waiting for SWAT to even respond. If there's
an active shooter situation, you.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Know, it's handled much differently. There's no sitting in waiting anymore.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, you know, to stop more people getting hurt, but
how about the people who need medical attention?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Stopping this in every minute counts exactly, So things are
handled differently than they were in the eighties, and I
get where they were coming from back then, and you know,
issues a liability and all that, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, and look at the crazy wife suing prize. They
didn't surprise she didn't sue the police department, although she
probably tried.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Probably I wouldn't be surprised, but good luck, you know, Yeah,
that wasn't.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Going to go anywhere either.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Unfortunately, this incident seemed to be the one that set
off a string of mass shootings in the eighties into
the nineties, specifically the postal shootings where we got the
going postal term from. This was the one that kind
of seemed to set it off and plant the ideas
into some other people's minds to take this kind of action,
(29:12):
and it's it's sad, but that's something that we should
probably look into in future episodes. All the post office
incidents is going postal, well, going postal.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, I think we have another episode and.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think probably a couple.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, so James seems to be the
one that set off this kind of thing, which is unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
And you know that it's just it's you know, we
do a lot of murder things with innocent victims. Sometimes
there you know, involved in something. But this you're going
to McDonald's, get something to eat, you're bringing your family,
and then this happens out of the blue, random.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah. Yeah, it's terrifying, awful, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And you know, cases down the road, the court upheld
that you know, people sued McDonald's and the court upheld
that really McDonald's has no liability and no duty to
provide some level of protection above the basics.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know, are you going.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To have armed guards at every restaurant?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Are you gonna you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, you can't expect that.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
No, no, no, So there you go, unhealthy dive. All right,
bring us out, all right, Well, thank you for sitting
through all that. We appreciate everybody tuning in. And as
Linda said before, well, first off.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
We got to promote your books.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Go on Amazon, look up Linda Zimmerman because Blinda has
what thirty something books, yeah, with one more in the works.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So on, so many different topics. So support your.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Local authors by buying every one of them right from Linda.
And then after you've done reading, go back and binge
all the old murders in the Hudson Valley that you
haven't haven't yet listened to, so all right, thank you
everybody for joining us. We will see you here next time.
If you are not a victim of murder in the
Hudson Valley.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
This is Hudson River Radio dot com m
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