November 7, 2023 • 57 mins
The Myers-Briggs won’t explain everything about your personality, but it can provide you with insights into your strengths and weaknesses. That can help you choose the right career path and a workplace that values your unique gifts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, folks, hope you are all doing well. Last time,
we started talking about how personality shows up in the workplace,
particularly with regards to thinking and feeling types. We're continuing
that conversation today, but taking a deeper dive into personality
at work. Why do certain types of people gravitate towards
(00:21):
certain careers? And what do you do when you just
don't get along with your coworkers who have different personality
types or even the same personality type. These are loaded questions,
but I hope this episode can shed some light on
this for you. I think you're going to like it,
and I hope you can take away some practical tips
(00:42):
whatever your career path is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Welcome to the new Myers Briggs Question Corner.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I'm Edith Richards and I'm Mark Mathey, and we're.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Here to answer your questions about all things personality and
all things Myers Briggs.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right fit.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey there, Mark, how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm great, Edith.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's a thousand degrees outside, but I'm glad we're doing
this recording in the twenty first century, where there's ac
inside that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Uh, I'm telling you you have got that right. The
air quality is just it's something else, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's horrible like it's and I'm used to it because
I played football before and I've normally playing my summers outside.
But it is oppressive out there. Like I walk outside
and I'm like, people are working outside. This is unbelievable.
Like everybody needs to have an ACU. And I feel
like walking up to everybody who's working upside and giving
them like a popsicle and be like, hey, here's a popsicle,
(02:16):
here's an ice cream sandwich. I think I'm going to
actually do that, because it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Even just some water, you know, some cold water, or
even just any water.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, it just shows you my health level. And my
first thing to cure thirst and heat is an icicle pop. Like,
you're totally right. Water would be a better option. And
talking about water, I was I was talking to somebody
who said that they were vacationing in Miami and they
said that the water temperature was like one hundred degrees
And I'm thinking to myself, like, what are you supposed
(02:47):
to do with that? Like that totally eliminates the reason
of going to the beach and.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, it's like bath water, right, Like what's the point?
And I mean really really concerning too. I mean I
don't think we've ever had this in the history of
the world, you know, and so concerning. And it reminds
me of this study when we were talking about this
and I'm hearing the news, like, of course, my mind
goes to personality, and so I'm going to find a
(03:15):
way to relate that to personality in some way being
who I am. And I read this study a few
years back about how climate influences personality, and you know,
the nuts and bolts of it are that temperature might
affect how people go out and explore their outdoor surroundings
and interact with other people. And also it might affect
(03:38):
how people do collective type work with others as a community,
like farming or other types of collective activities. So what
the researchers found is that people who grow up in
like milder climates tend to be more agreeable, tend to
be more emotionally stable and interesting enough, more extroverted. So
(04:02):
it's interesting to think about climate influencing social interactions among people.
Of course, there's a lot of other things that factor
into how we develop. And you know, we've talked about
that for a bit, but it's interesting to think about
this and how this might play out as you know,
temperatures continue to rise.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah, that's a man no idea that you know, climate
actual like physical temperature, climate may actually impact your personality.
But I can see that, right, I can just like
how society climate and something that I know that we're
going to talk about later on in some of our
podcasts that anytime groups are doing certain things, right, so
(04:45):
certain groups might do a certain activity based on the
climate that that might actually impact the collective and might
actually have an impact on your own individual personality. So
I'm really really glad we're able to explore not just
the basis of who you are and what your personality
type is, but why you might end up having a
certain personality type and why certain elements might actually impact
(05:09):
your personality to.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Look at your behavior.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Just think this is this whole conversation of personality type
is just really allowing us to almost be like a observer,
like a social scientist in the way that we behave.
I think that's pretty awesome for us to evaluate the
way that we behave at times.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I mean, and for me, it's just cool to
you know, know that people are studying things like this.
I mean, there's just so many interesting topics out there
that people actually get paid to study, which is very cool.
And speaking of which, the last time we were together,
we took a deep dive into the four dichotomies of
(05:48):
the Myers Briggs and to all our listeners tuning in,
we hope that you have a clear understanding of what
these dichotomies each mean. And you know, when we talk
about the Myers Briggs, we often talk about career choice.
That's one of the main reasons people take the assessment
is they're looking for some career guidance or a career
that suits their personality. And to be fair, there's a
(06:10):
lot that goes into why we choose the career paths
we do. Personality is one factor, for sure, but it's
not the only factor. Ability is another. So if I'm
you know, if I'm not really good at math, I'm
definitely going to consider that if I'm looking at careers
in engineering. That doesn't mean that I absolutely can't become
(06:33):
an engineer and get better at math, but I may
have a tougher journey than someone who's a natural at math.
And then of course there's our family and our culture
and how that influences our career choices, and you know,
just our overall interests. But I say this to say
that personality does factor in, and it's a big factor
(06:54):
when we're thinking about not only our careers but our workplaces.
But I don't want you all to think that this
is the only factor in your choice. It's just one
piece of the pie.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
No. I like that idea.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's it's really important to look at the different factors
that lead to fit, you know. And I've always thought
it's an important factor to find a fit to whatever
career you're in, whether it's a fit with your abilities,
your passions, or your personality, because you know when you
go to work that I don't think there's a more
impactful thing that we do within our day than what
(07:28):
we do with our job. And I always used to
tell this to my students, for you guys who don't
know I, I used to always tell them, you know,
we're gonna spend about a third of our life working
and half of our day, like half of our actual
waking hours is going to be spend at work, and
that doesn't count the time that you have to drive
the work stuck in traffic, doing work at home, talking
(07:52):
to your spouse about the frustrations that you have at work.
So I'm really glad that we're getting into this discussion
about work today because I really don't think that there's
anything more important than your fit in your work. Work
can be a place that energizes you and refreshes you.
You know, think about the times when you're able to
do the things that really engage you, right Like, when
(08:14):
you're able to do those activities that engage you, doesn't
it it energize you, refresh you. It kind of puts
you in a flow state, right like where time slows
down and you're really focused and really really productive.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes, definitely, definitely. And you know, on the flip side
of that, when you are not doing things that energize
you and it just drains you, you know that it's
not good. And type theory actually tells us that if
you're using your type preferences at work fifty one percent
(08:47):
of the time, you're likely going to be satisfied and productive.
But there's a lot of nuances with that. Too, but
it goes to show just how important it is for
all of us to reflect on this and find work
tasks and work environments that support our preferences. So, yeah,
when you think about times that you're able to do
(09:08):
the things that really engage you, like you're talking about
mark that engage you and refresh you and put you
in this flow state where time just kind of slows
down and you're so focused and you're really productive.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And I really think it goes to like anything that
we do in life, right, And it's like, it's again,
it's my personality type speaking here, but because I'm a
very idealistic individual, But why can't our workplace be like
anything else that we choose? Like when I go to dinner,
I don't order, you know, less than fifty percent of
the things that I don't want to do or don't like. Like,
(09:42):
I don't order food that I don't like. I'm hoping
I'm ordering at least fifty one percent of the things
that I like, Like in anything I go to. When
I go on vacation, I don't select a vacation where
I'm not doing, you know, less than fifty percent of
the things that I really want to do, I'm not
going to spend my time with that. So it's just
really really funny how every other aspect of life we're
(10:04):
all about choosing things Like now I'm on a streaming service,
I'm not choosing shows that I'm not going to enjoy
more than fifty one percent of the time. Like that's
so that research definitely makes sense. And I think when
it comes down to it, like I think we need
to be doing our work, not just going to work,
like do your work, like the work that is set
(10:25):
out for you because of your temperament or different abilities, passions,
those sorts of things. And again, like I know I'm
signing idealistic and it's part of my personality type being
an I INFP, But like I would love for us
to create a system where we can actually do our work,
you know, do work that fits our personality type, our abilities,
our passions, so that when when we go to our workplace,
(10:47):
we gain energy and we're inspired so we can actually
do the real jobs of relating with others, being great parents,
being great spouses, brothers, sisters, and friends, and serving others
in man. And I really do believe in that system,
Like I really do believe that work is provided for
us to give us energy to do the things that
(11:09):
really matter, like and taking care of our kids and
serving others. And I think so many times how many
people are really stressed out when they go home to
their kids because of their work.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think that's really really a shame. Just imagine what kind.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Of world that we can have if we had work
that actually fit our personality type.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
That'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It would be pretty cool. And what you're saying here
is because I'm right there with you, Mark, I'm that
idealistic person too, And I have a friend, in fact,
it's really interesting because it's an NFP friend of mine,
so same personality type as mine, who truly believes that
work is not meant to be fun. Work is named
(11:53):
work for a reason. And when I hear that, you know,
it's painful. It's truly painful for me to hear that,
because I do not hold that belief at all. It
work can be fun, work can be stimulating and engaging.
And you know, I see a lot of articles on
these subjects, especially recently. These are hot topics in the
(12:16):
world of leadership and human resources, and you know, it's
really unfortunate to me to see that. There's so much
talk about this about how we need workspaces that accommodate everyone,
but honestly, I see very little of it being done
in practice. So, folks, if you are a leader who's
tuning in, I really like to invite you to please
(12:38):
pay attention here, because you have added influence. You can
help your people and your organization for the better. And
you know, Mark, I know we're talking about being idealists here,
but I do think there's a link between what we
love to do now as adults and what we loved
to do as a child, Like our earliest career members,
(13:00):
like what did we want to be when we grew up?
In fact, this is one of my favorite questions to
ask people when I start talking about personality and careers. So, Mark,
how about you? Do you remember what you wanted to
be when you grew up? Did you have any childhood
dreams of, like, you know, being an astronaut or a
veterinarian or a police officer or president or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, yes, you know, it's funny you think, and I
do use that a lot for kids. You know, what
do you want to do when you grow up? And I,
frankly don't remember a lot of those conversations in my
household and where I grew up. I was born in Jamaica.
Jamaican's are known to really really work hard, and we
didn't really get that conversation of you know, what would
(13:44):
be your ideal job and what would be your dream
job like they believed kind of like what your friend
believe Edith, which is your job is what you do
to work, like your weekends when you get a chance
to do the things that you really want to do, right,
but like it's called work for a reason. I remember
my mom and dad used to always say that, like you,
(14:05):
especially when we came to this country, because you know
that I was born in Jamaica, but my parents came
to this country for the opportunities for me, right, for
the opportunities for myself and my brother and my sister
to maybe do the things that we're going to lead
to success, not necessarily to get your dream job. And
I remember sometimes I would say, you know, I think
(14:25):
one of the things I want to do in my
life is possibly be a professional athlete. That was immediately
shot down and scoffed at, right, like when we didn't
come to America for you to be an athlete. We
could have stayed in Jamaica and you could have been
usaying vote for that like it's but you obviously weren't
fast enough for that endeavor. So we didn't really get
(14:46):
into that conversation. But because I'm this individual who's idealistic,
and because I'm always trying to figure out how I
can reach my potential, I think I always was thinking
about what I was going to do in the future,
and obviously, being an athlete, I guess your dream would
always be to be a professional athlete. Unfortunately, that dream
(15:08):
was kind of snuffed out from me because I actually
played with a professional athlete, and it's different when you
dream about becoming a professional athlete and when the reality
is practicing next to you and he's just doing something
totally different and performing at a higher level naturally than
you are, right, And so I realized, yeah, probably being
(15:29):
a professional athlete is probably not in my car just
because I'm seeing it. Maybe I need to think about
some other things. So I kind of looked at how,
you know, what my parents were doing. So my mom
was a nurse. I didn't really have any interest in
the science fields, but my dad was a business person
and a leader. And my dad took on leadership roles
(15:50):
wherever he was, whether he was an elder in church,
whether he was a manager at his business he worked
for an insurance firm, whether he was just the leader
in our family and our extended family.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
He possessed these roles.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And I think that's something that I saw and something
that I gravitated to to becoming a leader. And you
know when you're growing up in the nineties and it's
all about getting rich quick. Well, if you're a leader
and you want to get rich and you want to retire,
then do business. And so that made a lot of
sense to me. I'm going to go be a CEO.
I'm going to run these companies. I'm a leader in
(16:27):
my sports, I'm a leader in class. I'm doing a
lot a lot of good things in my estimation. So
that kind of steered me towards the business route. And
that's what I took as one of my majors in college,
like I'm going to be I'm going to work in business.
What I didnt realize was I was also ignoring hints
and clues about who I actually was, Like there were
(16:48):
things that I was naturally doing that. I was ignoring
because I was pursuing this idea of who I was
because of my dad, because of how people looked at
me and that sort of thing, because of the leadership
roles that I was pursuing in my sports. But I
remember when I had an internship in Merrill Lynch. I
remember thinking to myself, I don't know if this is
(17:11):
really a great fit for me. I don't like managing
people like and I saw a lot of people that
were managing people, they were managing systems. There was a
lot of things that were going on in the business
like job task that naturally didn't fit me. Now I'll
do it like I'll do it, but it didn't naturally
fit me. And again another clue was out there, Like
I was in this internship program, and it got to
(17:35):
a point where we didn't even have to dress up
for the internship because they had us in the back
room like organizing their files like from like nineteen seventy
six and all this other stuff. And so I was
working with some individuals. I was working with some individuals
who were also in the internship program on that, and
of course my INFP comes up to me and said,
there's got to be a better way than this, Like,
(17:57):
you have these smart individuals who are juniors in college
who are taking this internship program at Merrill Lynch, Like,
you got to find a way to do this. So
me and my friend created a presentation. So we created
a presentation and how they can better use their interns
to not only have the interns experience the job to
(18:19):
see if it's a good fit for them, but to
see if they can recruit those individuals for that job.
And I didn't care. I went up to the managers
and I said, hey, we'd love to do a presentation,
like knowing what I know now, like managers don't have
half an hour, said listen to some kids talk about
what they should be doing. But I didn't think so
like io, this comes you know, being a son of
(18:41):
Dorothy and Barry Matthew, a person who's highly confident and
believes that this is something that we should do. So
we presented it to them and they loved it. Now
I don't think they changed their internship program. But again,
hints right, hint saying you're not a manager, but you're
you're a person who wants to figure out how to
better things. Your person wants to increase capacity, your personal
(19:04):
wants to help, whether it be people or systems, reach
its potential. But of course I'm ignoring it to the
point where I try to get my MBA.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So I'm still on my goal.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I'm going to put on my suit and I'm going
to be a financial advisor and I'm going to take
my MBA. I graduated college in four years, but I
have an extra year of football eligibility, so I'm going
to graduate, which is great, graduating four, play my fifteen,
and then start my MBA program, which you know, William
(19:36):
and Mary will end up paying a year for. So
I thought that would be great, except for I do
horrible on standardized testing, and so my GMATS prevented me
from that route. So I wasn't able to pursue the NBA.
One of my friends who scored, you know, excellently on
it and who's actually very successful, Bryce Lee, who's actually
(19:57):
very successful in Williamsburg as a financial consultant. I kind
of look at him and think that could have been me.
But then I see his work task when I'm down there,
and I'm like, I'm so glad that's because I'll give you, Like,
so what he does, is he'll have I'll come down
for the football games. They'll be in the skybox and
all that other stuff, and he's spending his entire time
(20:17):
humming it up with people and doing the social thing
and getting people excited and comfortable just so that way
they can maybe signed onto their program. Like I would
have hated that, right, So I'm so glad that I
didn't go that route.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So like it's almost like the universe kind of intervened
in a way, or God intervened in a way for
you to not do so well on those gmats and
kind of like steering you in a different direction, so
to speak.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Oh so was God that friends scoring high on my
GMAT like that?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You don't know, I don't know, I don't know. That's
just what it sounded like to me. Is I'm listening
to your story.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
All this time.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I thought it would be because I wasn't that smart,
And it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It was a blessing in disguise, is what it sounds
like to me, because that would not have been the
right path for you, you.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Know, absolutely, I mean, And if you're over here having
me think a little bit about just the idea that
and I do. I'm I'm a believer in seeing that
certain things happened for a reason, because it didn't scare me.
Because here's my situation. I've graduated William and Mary, but
I don't have anywhere to go to school, Like so
you have to in order for you to in order
(21:32):
for you to play football, you have to be attending
a school. So goodness, you talk about like you know,
certain things happening and maybe God opening up away. When
the director of the business school said no, we're not
going to let you in to the next day, two
people left. This is August. Two people left the education
program and opened up a space for me to get
(21:55):
in there. And of course I don't do well on
on my standardized testing, but I get in nonetheless. So
you're right, it seems like I was being scared to
that direction. And you know, as I'm looking through the
careers that a person would do with a master's in education,
I'm looking through it and I'm literally going through the
(22:16):
book and saying no, no, no, no, no, you know,
like you know, teacher, absolutely not, like who would ever
become a teacher? Like, so I'm going through all these jobs, professor, no,
absolutely not. All these I feel like these jobs don't fit.
And then one stands out director athletic director, and I said,
you know what, like, yeah, with sports and leadership, I'm
(22:40):
still on that kick right managing because I still haven't
learned my lesson I could do that. Here's what ended
up happening. Once I finished playing football, I still had
to finish up my master's degree. So in that spring,
I decided, if I'm going to become an athletic director,
why not become a coach and try to figure out
what a coach goes through so I can better manage them,
(23:02):
which is something I realized I never wanted to do.
I could better manage them, right. But what I realized
was coaching was exactly the field that I needed to
go into, because now I'm doing things that I'd always done.
Like now I'm doing things where i'm you know, trying
to figure out how can help people reach their potential.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That's what a coach does, Like I'm able to get.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Together with a group of people to figure out the
best way for us to do certain things for us
to win football games. Like I'm able to do all
these things. I'm able to solve problems I'm able to
process things. That's my introverted me right, process things all
the way down and be able to come up with
certain things and figure things out. And that's my intuitive side.
So once I got into coaching, I realized this is
(23:45):
where I need to be.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
This is my fit.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
And I loved it so much that I didn't even
finish my master's program. Like I just said, I was
totally converted to being a coach, and because that was
something that.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Totally fit me.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And what situation occurred that allowed me to come down
to the high school level was I'm starting to listen,
to work fit and to do the things that fit
me right. And so now I'm starting to say to myself,
as I've become a college football coach, it's not just
about developing your players. Now I have to go recruit
(24:19):
other players. And now I'm spending more time recruiting players
than I am developing my players. And I just said,
I don't know, I'd rather just spend more time developing players.
And I decided, you know what, you know who did
a great job of that, my head football coach at
Shan Tilly. I'm just going to do what he did.
I'm going to become a head football coach in high school.
(24:39):
While I'm not recruiting, I'm going to focus on developing
these players and helping them reach their potential, and that
sort of help them become not only great football players,
but good men, husbands, you know, be able to you know,
be great citizens and that sort of stuff. And I
was really that appeal to me, and I realized the
only way I can do that was to be a teacher.
So that led me to that role where I'm teaching, okay,
(25:03):
but I'm also able to coach too as well. So
it's just funny how at times I had ignored the
clues of what I was really good at. I was
giving advice to kids all the time when I was
in school, right, I totally ignored that. I was always
trying to help people reach their potential. Totally ignored that.
And really what it came down to it was these
(25:25):
situations that have occurred where I thought were roadbox, where
I thought those were obstacles in my career paths, were
actually scaring me to where I need to be. So
my dream didn't really happen, but the reality is pretty good,
and so I appreciate those roadblocks and those obstacles in
getting me to where I eventually needed to be.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, it's not too fun to when you're in the
midst of these tough times, like going through the roadblocks,
you know, but I think most of us do tend
to come out better on the other side of things.
We were able to look back and see, Okay, now
I know I had to go through this tough time,
and you learn from it, right, and we end up
(26:08):
being better people for going through these tough times, I think.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, So, so did you have these great career dreams
when you were growing up.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
No, No, not really, not really for sure. I never
ever would have thought I'd be where I am now,
which is, you know, I do work in the corporate
world now, then there's there's not very many E NFP
types or I NFP types where I work. And that's
not necessarily a bad thing, you know. I've I think
(26:40):
I've gotten pretty good at morphing myself into a more
ISTJ or EESTJ world and I've learned a lot. But
you know, like you were saying, there were a lot
of painful lessons there, and for me, it's not a
natural career fit. I can say that I can say that,
but that doesn't mean it's the wrong place for me
(27:00):
to be. I think for me, the earliest career dream
I can remember was I wanted to be a singer.
And what I loved about singing. It wasn't like the
technical aspect of the music or anything like that. It
was about performing and about making people smile and making
people feel good. And then, you know, I got to
(27:23):
be school aged and I wanted to be a teacher
and then a writer, and I had that dream for
a really long time, but as time went on, I
can't say that I had any real specific career ideas.
And I think that's the case for a lot of
NP intuitive perceiving types. We like ideas, and our ideas change,
(27:45):
and sometimes we kind of suffer from the grass is
Always Greener syndrome. You know. It's kind of like what
you were saying, Mark, that you had this dream of
playing football and then the reality it wasn't really it
didn't quite live up to the dream, you know. And
I think a lot of us NP personality types, I
think we have a lot of starts and stops in
(28:05):
our careers. We may have trouble nailing down a college major,
or we may drop out of college because we can't
figure out what we want to do. When I talk
about these topics, I like to encourage people to go
back to their earliest childhood career dream if they can,
and really think about that and dig deep before you
(28:25):
get like corrupted by the external world. What does your
earliest career dream say about your values and what you enjoy?
And for me, I have this very fuzzy kind of
dream in the back of my head that it would
still be fun to be a singer. I'm not gonna lie.
It might be kind of at least that idea is there,
(28:48):
But is that realistic? No flipping way. But the constant,
the constant thing is that I still love to make
people smile. I love to make people happy, and you know,
even in my job now, I like to think that
I do that every day in my job. I feel like,
(29:08):
you know, the universe had me get into this type
of field that I'm in now because of that, because
I'm bringing a certain energy there that was not there
before me, and I think it helps people and that's
pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I'm really glad we're talking about this because I feel
like there's a lot of not just students, but just
adults that struggle with why am I on earth? Like,
like what was my particular vocation? Those sorts of things
that I was actually born to do? Right, And I
think a lot of times our earliest dreams, the things
that we naturally do or enjoy, gives us clues to
(29:46):
what we really want to do. So, like when you
evaluate what you were talking about, like you wanted to
be a singer, and I always call like, that's kind
of like the iceberg, right, Like we see the iceberg
of singing, but what is underneath that iceberg is truly
what you want to do? Like, so the iceberg effect
of there's certain things that we see that we enjoy doing,
(30:07):
but why do we enjoy doing those things? Like you're saying,
like singing allowed you to make people happy, and it
allowed you to get them going and inspire them and
that sort of stuff. That's what you thought singing did,
But that's not the only profession that allows you to
do that. The big question is once we figure out
why we do something, then now it's okay, what is
(30:28):
the actual job that allows me or it gives me
the affords me the opportunity to do those things?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And I felt like, that's what you're doing. You're figuring out.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Ways to do what singing allowed you to do younger.
You're finding other ways to do that same thing, if
that makes.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Sense exactly exactly now. To be fair, I still love music,
all kinds of music. I was really lucky to have
parents who encouraged this in me. And you know, I
had music lessons from a really young age, probably learned
how to read music before I could read, and you know,
that was really really cool in my development. So it's
(31:07):
not just about you know, making people happy and all
the secondary is I mean, just music for the sake
of music. But that's you know, that's just me. And
I think that what you're saying there mark about just
digging deep. There's definitely something to that, just a lot
of self reflection. And I wish that more of us
would do this today, and I wish more parents would
(31:27):
encourage their kids to do that for themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
You know, yeah, now what do you like? What are
you naturally good at? Like? What are you passionate about? Again?
Speaker 4 (31:38):
It goes about these are clues that I really believe
that your soul is giving you saying this is what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Allow me to do more of that.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
And I think unfortunately what we do as a society,
we say, you know, you can't do that. You have
to then change who you are and transform yourself to
something that we approve.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I get it, Like I know we have to to
work and get money for something. But at the end
of the day, I really feel like we as human
beings are just trying to let out who we are
into the world, right, And I think sometimes when we
go through things, our natural gifts are screaming at us,
do what you are, do what you are, like, just
find something a career that allows you to do what
(32:20):
you are. If I would have known about MBTI career
fit right as I was growing up, I would have
realized that business wasn't the fit for my personality. Like
I would have realized that managing people wasn't something that
I should do. What it really was was coaching people,
Like That's what really got me fired up and got
me excited. You know, I might be in a totally
(32:42):
different career now, And so I think it's really important
as we grow. As you know, parents who want to
see their child achieve and do great things as adults.
I think it's important that we say, what are the
clues my child is showing? And when you become, you know,
a teenager or a young adult, what are the clues
that your body's giving you and telling you that you
(33:06):
should be or you should do. Like these things are
examples of certain ways to find perfect fits. And one
of the things that we're doing now is when you
don't find the perfect fit right because we don't have
a system that allows you to actually find your natural fit.
So when you're in that role where you don't really
quite fit, well, well, can you contribute your natural gifts
(33:28):
to that space? And I think for me that's what
I try to do it. So I'm always trying to
do the do what you are motto in my own
job too right now, so as in my job as
a teacher and as a coach, I'm always going to
now contribute my personal gifts to my environment. So everybody
knows as who either was a student of mind or
(33:50):
a player of mine, I'm going to have these things
called life lessons with coach or mister Matthew. And like
I said, you're a player, and you know it's coming
where he's going to contribute his personal gift, his personality
gifts to you. So that way, I'm essentially in my
job doing what I am, which is something that I
really appreciate. And I really encourage everybody to figure out
(34:13):
how they can contribute their personality and their gifts and
their strengths to their natural environment.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah. Yeah, and they are lucky to have you, to
have you Mark so And you know, I hear these
things a lot, like if i'd only known about the
MBTI when I was younger. And you know, my response
to that is that we're living in a world where
change is possible. Career change is possible. It doesn't matter
(34:41):
how old you are. There are a lot of resources
out there that can help you figure things out and
start a new path if that's what you want to do.
And yeah, we do have bills to pay, and it
might be harder as an adult to start over again,
but it's not impossible. It's a values and the fact
is that, yeah, you're probably going to have to give
(35:03):
up something to go back to school and get another
credential or change paths, and it'll be time, it might
be some money, but is it worth it? And that's
a question only you can answer. And look I'm not
here to say that you should or shouldn't, but I
do think that if you're asking yourself these types of questions,
(35:24):
then it's time to really think about yourself and what
you want and seek out a career coach or a
career counselor if you need someone to help you through
the process. And some people do really well just by
reading books or listening to podcasts or audiobooks or whatever.
What color is your Parachute? Or you know, the Meyers
(35:45):
Briggs book that I know you've referenced before, Mark is
Do What You Are by Paul Tiger and Barbara Bearn Teeger,
And there are others other books as well. And you know,
COVID really encouraged or even forced us in a lot
of cases to rethink our careers. So, like you said, Mark,
we spend so much of our time at work and
(36:08):
it really should be doing something that we want to do,
not something that makes us miserable.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Absolutely kind of on that point, can you talk a
little bit about the importance of knowing your ideal environment
for your personality?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like why is that important?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, So, there are a lot of reasons why knowing
your personality type can help you out in not only
finding the right career fit, but the right workplace fit.
First off, it helps improve communication. I mean that's a
big one. And you know we've talked about this before.
Knowing who you're dealing with will help you determine how
to best approach the people you're working with, like your
(36:47):
peers and your supervisor. And you know, if you're a manager,
the people who work under you too. And by having
an understanding of how each person works best, you can
better gauge what they need to work effectively, and that
improves teamwork and collaboration, and it can help resolve conflicts too.
(37:10):
So let me give you an example in my workplace.
So I have a few direct reports who are self
reported introverts, right, they need those telework days. They are
not as productive when they're in the office. And you
know that's just because there's a lot of banter going on.
There's a lot of noise around and people are talking
(37:31):
and people come up and interrupt them. So I make
sure that those folks have their telework days as much
as it's possible for me to do.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I also have a number of jays or judging types
on my team, and me being a perceiver. I know
I'm not going to get the best out of them
if I don't do my part to stay organized. I
try as best as I can to. You know, if
we have a meeting, I want to be productive. I
(38:01):
want it to be on time. I don't want it
to go over time. I need to plan out what
the purpose of the meeting is, make sure that I'm ready,
because I don't want to waste anybody's time, especially Jay types. Right.
And then, you know, most importantly, I take the time
to get to know each of these people as individuals.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
What kind of.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Tasks do they like to do, what do they not
like to do? And this way we can divide the
work up better. Now, of course, sometimes we all, you know,
we have to do things we don't like to do.
But the more that we can take the time to
get to know each other's strengths and weaknesses and personality types,
(38:44):
the better we can all work together. And you know,
I like to think that I have a pretty good
team and that we do a lot to help each
other out. We have a lot of cohesion, and you know,
I think we all just genuinely like each other and
we do good work too, And.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
It's so valuable, right, it's so valuable to the points
that you're making when it comes to teamwork. You know,
when you look at the acronym a lot of times
people will use this team together, everybody achieves more. It's
absolutely the case, like we accomplish more working collectively than
we do like working individually. And so I think it's
(39:23):
really really important to understand each individual's personality strengths and
try to create an environment that allows that to happen.
And I think probably the best example of that is
the body, right, Like the body does that. Like the
body's not trying, like the body parts and the individual
organs aren't all trying to do the same thing. The
heart has its role and it's in an environment to
(39:44):
do the right thing. Like the lungs has its role
and it's in the environment to do the right thing.
And by allowing us to work together, you have a
really really well functioning body. And I think that's the case.
Is what are the strengths that you have, put them
in an environment that all them to do their work,
and then together, as being a manager, how does that
all work together for everything that we want, which is
(40:07):
productivity and all that other stuff. So I think that's
really really a great point when it comes to how
do you create an ideal workplace environment. It's not necessarily
maybe even careers as much as it's like, there's a
bunch of things we got to get done. Who best
fits those roles to get those things done?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
You know? I think that's really really important role for that.
So I like that point.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So it if I've been doing I know you're the
MBTI practitioner, but I've been doing a little bit of research.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So one of the.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Books that you read or or you talked about was
a book by Paul Tigger and BARBERA.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Tigger Do what you are?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And so I looked up your personality type and you're
the work environment that best fits you e n FP.
And so what I want to do is I want
to ask you some questions about your personality type and
the work environment and just try to figure out how
ideal listen is that fit for you?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Do you want you want to do? You want to
play that game real quick?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
This sounds like so much fun, Mark, I am game
for this game. So, okay, so you're gonna ask me
questions about my current work environment? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (41:13):
No, we don't all ideal because remember I'm ideal, Like
I don't talk about what you currently are.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I would not. I don't care about your current steps.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well that's good because I don't want any I don't
want any of my current work people tuning in and
hearing if I say something bad. So yeah, I perfect me.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
It's perfect, all right.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
So first question, So the title of your personality type
in the book is called anything as Possible.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Do you think that best reflects you?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yes, that's a pretty good motto for me. Anything is possible.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yes, You've had experiences where you feel like you wanted
to experience a different, like a wide variety of things,
like do you consider that as part of your like
are they where they are?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Multiple career?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, I liked. I definitely like to experience things variety
of things for sure, because like any E NFP type,
I'm going to get bored. This is, you know, unfortunately
one of the fortunately or unfortunately I'm going to say
this is one of the hallmarks of an E NFP
type is that we may get bored easily doing the
(42:26):
same old thing day after day. No, we need variety,
and one way I think that we can get a
lot of varieties. Just is, have a lot of different experiences.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So you like to in your work ideal workplace. You
want to be able to experience different things. And you
don't necessarily want to stay in one activity or one
thing for too long.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
No, absolutely not No. If I had to do the
same thing day after day, I would go crazy.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
I got you, no question. That's that's that's interesting. I
like that second question. Okay, how well does this sentence
match you? E NFPs enjoy the creative process, especially if
it offers opportunities for collaboration and to be inspired by
working with others. The more on constrained and flexible the
(43:13):
working environment, the better.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I'm just laughing here. Ten out of ten, ten out
of ten. For sure, I am an endless supply of
clever new ideas. The newer, the more out of the box,
the better. And if I could be around a whole bunch,
like I'm just thinking about other e NFPs, if we
(43:37):
just you know, had this creative process together, which, come
to think of it, I have had before, and it's
you know, it's a little overwhelmed. It can be even
a little overwhelming for me. You know, just all of
these very extroverted people shooting out all sorts of different
ideas and it's just like one idea after another and
(43:59):
we just keep trying to one up each other. Is
kind of how it feels. And then you know, nothing
gets accomplished. But that's okay, I mean, so what nothing
gets accomplished, We're having fun.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Yeah, I can only imagine being an introvert that you
know that experience. I would probably need to get a
time out.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeh yeah, I mean even after after a couple hours,
me too, I think.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Yeah, no question okay, Question number three? Do you take
the needs and concerns of other people into consideration and
devise innovative and humane solutions to their problem?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah? A ten out of ten. Again, Yeah, I probably
to the detriment of myself. A lot of the time,
I am very very others focused, I will admit it.
And one of the things that I'm constantly doing inside
my head when I meet somebody, when I meet somebody new,
(44:56):
is I'm I'm type casting them and trying to figure
out what their Meyers Briggs type is. And yeah, I know,
to all the type practitioners, if you're tuning in right now,
like I know, I'm not supposed to be doing that,
and you know you all know you do it too.
It's something like we can't we can't turn it off.
But it's not like I'm trying to judge somebody. No,
(45:19):
I like to say I'm a very non judgmental person,
as non judgmental as one can be. That's me. What
I'm trying to do is trying to figure them out
so I can find a way to best relate to
them and best communicate with them. And you know, I
know that one time, Mark, we were talking about having
this win win situation and I feel that too. Yeah,
(45:39):
I'm always I'm looking for a win win, and if
I'm being honest with myself, it's more about the other
person winning over myself.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, I can relate, I can relate with that.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
That's our f that's our f feeling type purport really
screaming at.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Us there, Yeah, for sure. So I'll end up with
this last.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Question because I mean, it seems like a lot of these,
like your work environments are really really matching you. Let
me see why. I can go five for five. Okay,
how well does this sentence match you? NFPs are born entrepreneurs.
They enjoy working for themselves because it gives them freedom
and flexibility and the opportunity to choose projects they wish
(46:22):
to work on and people they want to work with.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, you know, this is where I'm not going to
go for a ten out of ten on this one.
But this is just me because I know there are
so many NFP entrepreneur types out there, and in fact,
I did a podcast on this a couple of years ago,
and I can relate to the ideas of this, But
for me personally, it's being an entrepreneur myself, I have
(46:48):
a side gig. As an entrepreneur, I have to say
that I like the stability of having a regular paycheck
and regular schedule. Somehow, I think that helps me if
I don't have these deadlines. I'm not somebody who can
have self imposed deadlines quite so easily. I feel like
(47:11):
I need somebody to help me with the more monotonous
aspects of the job, like accounting and taxes and all
the yucky things like that. So I yeah, it's half
and half.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
You know what's so funny about that, though, because you know,
I think what it's saying to entrepreneurs, especially if you're
e NFP, I think it's going more towards the point
of you want freedom and flexibility. So it's almost like
if you took the entrepreneurship word out, I think you'd
be able to relate to that, right, because another aspect
(47:46):
that is a part of your work environment type is
I can become overwhelmed by details and paralyzed by the
need for organization. I would prefer someone else to take
over the routine and the follow up, which is part
of the reason why you said you don't think you
would be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Because of that.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
But the work type does show that you guys don't
want to deal with all the.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Details of that sort of stuff. So that's prett be funny.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, one hundred percent. Yeah. And flexibility, yeah,
definitely need that, need autonomy whatever I'm doing. So okay,
so I sound like a typical NFP. So that's a relief.
Speaker 4 (48:24):
Well yeah, And I think what's even helpful is if
I was a manager and you were able to articulate
that to me, like if you were able to say, hey,
these are the type of work tasks that I like.
Here's some of the work environments that I like. Even
if I had that catalog in my brain, I'm not
saying I'd be able to change things, but if I
had the opportunity to, if I knew that information, would
(48:46):
I like, just by you articulating those things that you
like to do, powerful could that be for a manager
to better to manage you in a way to help
you reach your top potential and help you enjoy your job.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
That's something could be.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
That could be something that's really really you know, important
and important for us to know.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, for real, for real, if you are lucky enough
to have a manager who supports that and supports your
growth for sure. Okay, So I think it should be
my turn now, Mark to ask you some questions because
I have this book too. I have this book Do
what You.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Are so great?
Speaker 1 (49:28):
And the IFP section here? So how well do you
think this sentence describes you? Still? Waters run deep?
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Ooh?
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I think what I could really really identify with is
runs deep. I think everything I do is processed at
a very very deep level. And matter of fact, when
I would have discussions with people, I would say, Hey,
are you ready to put on your scuba gear? Like
cause I'm going to go deep, Like we are going
to go deep into this conversation. So I definitely can
(49:59):
really with the deep aspect of it, and I guess
the still portion, I guess I could consider that too,
because I do like to be by myself now with
a lot of commotion and that.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Sort of stuff. So I could definitely see how that
would relate with my situation. Absolutely I can see that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Hmm. Okay, So you might have a little bit of
you know, movement here on the on the waters, not
completely still, but definitely running.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Deep, definitely running deep, like very very deep.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, okay, okay, I yeah, I believe that about you, okay,
And how well do these statements match your ideal work environment?
So one allows me to help others grow and develop
and realize their potential.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Yeah, that's Mark Mathew, Like, it's not what I like
to do. That's who I am. Like understanding people and
helping them reach their potential is exactly why I was born.
And because of my ability to figure things out and
my and my deep processing system, it's really allowed me
to be really self reflective and to figure that out.
(51:08):
So any opportunity that I have, like if I see you, like,
I'm going to be like, hey, how's the weather, and
then I'm probably gonna go in some type of deep
questioning to have you process like like why you exist
in the world.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Like that where I'm.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
Going so yeah, like just to try to get to
know people to a point where I can help them
reach their potential.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
So that defines me absolutely perfect match.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Okay, allows me to work towards fulfilling my ideals and
not be limited by political, financial, or other obstacles.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah. Ding ding ding ding ding ding Like it's that's me, Okay.
Speaker 4 (51:52):
I mean how many times on the show have I
mentioned that I'm idealisting?
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You're an idealist?
Speaker 4 (51:56):
Yeah, nothing makes me more frustrated than also the politics
of things, So like, I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
I hear you there, Okay. Next one involves understanding people
and discovering what makes them tick. Allows me to develop
deep one on one relationships with others.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
You know the answer, Yes, I mean a.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Numerous times as well, yep, yep. And then of course
this one is is you as well as always seeking
an ideal situation.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
That was really good, Like I didn't. I didn't know
that I would be such an ideal fit for the
environments that that book was mentioning that that that's pretty
awesome if I kind of question. What advice would you
give any any students in high school about working and
finding the work environment that fits them since we've been
talking about.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
That, Yeah, that's a good question because yeah, with high school,
with high school students, you know what, get to know
your strengths and your interests. This is the time to
try different things if you're up for it. So think
about some extracurricular activities that interest you and start participating
(53:11):
in some of those activities and see if you like them.
You know, as an adult it's kind of it's harder
to find groups and extracurricular activities, and so when you're young,
it's easy for you to kind of find whatever you
like with your school or youth groups or something like that.
So definitely, I would say take advantage of that. And
(53:32):
if you've found some groups or activities that you like,
take some time to reflect on why you like them,
What is it about that activity that really excites you,
and think about themes. Do you like participating in groups
or do you prefer independent activities for example, And then
think about things that you absolutely don't like to do,
(53:55):
and what is it that you don't like about these things?
There are a lot a lot of websites that you
can go to that can help you with this. But
also don't forget that you have teachers, teachers like mister
Mathe and guidance counselors who are there to help you too.
So think about those people who you gravitate towards in
(54:17):
your life and talk to them. Take the time to
ask them about their career paths and listen to their
advice if it's possible. I know Mark you mentioned before
an internship you had, and some high school students can
have internships as well, So try an internship and get
at plast for what the working world is like. And again,
there are tons of resources out there to help you.
(54:40):
The only thing you need to do is to just
take that first step to ask for help. But once
you do that, I think you're going to be amazed
at the doors that start opening up for you.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
Like, what amazing advice to give an individual who's still
trying to process and figure out what their future might
look like.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (55:01):
I've just been really really blessed at in it with
just this discussion. I think that work is so important.
We spend so much time there and I think it's
so important for us to really break this down. So
I really really appreciate that. But last question I have
for you, what advice do you have for our adults
working in careers that don't quite necessarily fit their personalities
(55:25):
or their strengths.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah? Many, Unfortunately that goes for many people out there.
And I'm going to say much the same thing that
I said to for our young people. Take some time
to think about what it is that you like to do,
what you don't like to do, what your strengths and
your weaknesses are, what your values are, and what's realistic
at this point in your life. And again, there are
(55:47):
lots of resources out there to help you and guide you.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
So on that note, if our listeners wanted to find
out more about the MBTI and work, should they go.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
So.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
One of my favorite resources is actually another podcast series
I did called The Myers Briggs for Midlife Career Changers.
And this is a sixteen part series, one episode for
each of the sixteen Myers Briggs types, and it focuses
on career paths for each personality type and each episode
is geared towards one type. So I have one episode
(56:23):
for our istj friends and one for our E, NFJ,
friends and so on, And you can find links to
these on my website at top career dot com and
they're also available on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
That's great to hear.
Speaker 4 (56:41):
I definitely want to tune into that IFP podcast now,
so I'm making a note on that it if. But
with that, I think we're gonna have to wrap things
up for this episode. Hey folks, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you ed If for your expertise, and we'll be
seeing you again next time. Thanks for tuning in, follow
(57:07):
us on social media and your favorite podcast.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Platform, and please reach out to me on LinkedIn and
on my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myers Briggs and MVTI R trademarks of the
Meersbriggs Foundation viewpoints expressed, here are our own
Hey, folks, hope you are all doing well. Last time,
we started talking about how personality shows up in the workplace,
particularly with regards to thinking and feeling types. We're continuing
that conversation today, but taking a deeper dive into personality
at work. Why do certain types of people gravitate towards
(00:21):
certain careers? And what do you do when you just
don't get along with your coworkers who have different personality
types or even the same personality type. These are loaded questions,
but I hope this episode can shed some light on
this for you. I think you're going to like it,
and I hope you can take away some practical tips
(00:42):
whatever your career path is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Welcome to the new Myers Briggs Question Corner.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I'm Edith Richards and I'm Mark Mathey, and we're.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Here to answer your questions about all things personality and
all things Myers Briggs.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right fit.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey there, Mark, how are you today?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm great, Edith.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's a thousand degrees outside, but I'm glad we're doing
this recording in the twenty first century, where there's ac
inside that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Uh, I'm telling you you have got that right. The
air quality is just it's something else, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It's horrible like it's and I'm used to it because
I played football before and I've normally playing my summers outside.
But it is oppressive out there. Like I walk outside
and I'm like, people are working outside. This is unbelievable.
Like everybody needs to have an ACU. And I feel
like walking up to everybody who's working upside and giving
them like a popsicle and be like, hey, here's a popsicle,
(02:16):
here's an ice cream sandwich. I think I'm going to
actually do that, because it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Even just some water, you know, some cold water, or
even just any water.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, it just shows you my health level. And my
first thing to cure thirst and heat is an icicle pop. Like,
you're totally right. Water would be a better option. And
talking about water, I was I was talking to somebody
who said that they were vacationing in Miami and they
said that the water temperature was like one hundred degrees
And I'm thinking to myself, like, what are you supposed
(02:47):
to do with that? Like that totally eliminates the reason
of going to the beach and.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, it's like bath water, right, Like what's the point?
And I mean really really concerning too. I mean I
don't think we've ever had this in the history of
the world, you know, and so concerning. And it reminds
me of this study when we were talking about this
and I'm hearing the news, like, of course, my mind
goes to personality, and so I'm going to find a
(03:15):
way to relate that to personality in some way being
who I am. And I read this study a few
years back about how climate influences personality, and you know,
the nuts and bolts of it are that temperature might
affect how people go out and explore their outdoor surroundings
and interact with other people. And also it might affect
(03:38):
how people do collective type work with others as a community,
like farming or other types of collective activities. So what
the researchers found is that people who grow up in
like milder climates tend to be more agreeable, tend to
be more emotionally stable and interesting enough, more extroverted. So
(04:02):
it's interesting to think about climate influencing social interactions among people.
Of course, there's a lot of other things that factor
into how we develop. And you know, we've talked about
that for a bit, but it's interesting to think about
this and how this might play out as you know,
temperatures continue to rise.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Yeah, that's a man no idea that you know, climate
actual like physical temperature, climate may actually impact your personality.
But I can see that, right, I can just like
how society climate and something that I know that we're
going to talk about later on in some of our
podcasts that anytime groups are doing certain things, right, so
(04:45):
certain groups might do a certain activity based on the
climate that that might actually impact the collective and might
actually have an impact on your own individual personality. So
I'm really really glad we're able to explore not just
the basis of who you are and what your personality
type is, but why you might end up having a
certain personality type and why certain elements might actually impact
(05:09):
your personality to.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Look at your behavior.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Just think this is this whole conversation of personality type
is just really allowing us to almost be like a observer,
like a social scientist in the way that we behave.
I think that's pretty awesome for us to evaluate the
way that we behave at times.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I mean, and for me, it's just cool to
you know, know that people are studying things like this.
I mean, there's just so many interesting topics out there
that people actually get paid to study, which is very cool.
And speaking of which, the last time we were together,
we took a deep dive into the four dichotomies of
(05:48):
the Myers Briggs and to all our listeners tuning in,
we hope that you have a clear understanding of what
these dichotomies each mean. And you know, when we talk
about the Myers Briggs, we often talk about career choice.
That's one of the main reasons people take the assessment
is they're looking for some career guidance or a career
that suits their personality. And to be fair, there's a
(06:10):
lot that goes into why we choose the career paths
we do. Personality is one factor, for sure, but it's
not the only factor. Ability is another. So if I'm
you know, if I'm not really good at math, I'm
definitely going to consider that if I'm looking at careers
in engineering. That doesn't mean that I absolutely can't become
(06:33):
an engineer and get better at math, but I may
have a tougher journey than someone who's a natural at math.
And then of course there's our family and our culture
and how that influences our career choices, and you know,
just our overall interests. But I say this to say
that personality does factor in, and it's a big factor
(06:54):
when we're thinking about not only our careers but our workplaces.
But I don't want you all to think that this
is the only factor in your choice. It's just one
piece of the pie.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
No. I like that idea.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
It's it's really important to look at the different factors
that lead to fit, you know. And I've always thought
it's an important factor to find a fit to whatever
career you're in, whether it's a fit with your abilities,
your passions, or your personality, because you know when you
go to work that I don't think there's a more
impactful thing that we do within our day than what
(07:28):
we do with our job. And I always used to
tell this to my students, for you guys who don't
know I, I used to always tell them, you know,
we're gonna spend about a third of our life working
and half of our day, like half of our actual
waking hours is going to be spend at work, and
that doesn't count the time that you have to drive
the work stuck in traffic, doing work at home, talking
(07:52):
to your spouse about the frustrations that you have at work.
So I'm really glad that we're getting into this discussion
about work today because I really don't think that there's
anything more important than your fit in your work. Work
can be a place that energizes you and refreshes you.
You know, think about the times when you're able to
do the things that really engage you, right Like, when
(08:14):
you're able to do those activities that engage you, doesn't
it it energize you, refresh you. It kind of puts
you in a flow state, right like where time slows
down and you're really focused and really really productive.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes, definitely, definitely. And you know, on the flip side
of that, when you are not doing things that energize
you and it just drains you, you know that it's
not good. And type theory actually tells us that if
you're using your type preferences at work fifty one percent
(08:47):
of the time, you're likely going to be satisfied and productive.
But there's a lot of nuances with that. Too, but
it goes to show just how important it is for
all of us to reflect on this and find work
tasks and work environments that support our preferences. So, yeah,
when you think about times that you're able to do
(09:08):
the things that really engage you, like you're talking about
mark that engage you and refresh you and put you
in this flow state where time just kind of slows
down and you're so focused and you're really productive.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And I really think it goes to like anything that
we do in life, right, And it's like, it's again,
it's my personality type speaking here, but because I'm a
very idealistic individual, But why can't our workplace be like
anything else that we choose? Like when I go to dinner,
I don't order, you know, less than fifty percent of
the things that I don't want to do or don't like. Like,
(09:42):
I don't order food that I don't like. I'm hoping
I'm ordering at least fifty one percent of the things
that I like, Like in anything I go to. When
I go on vacation, I don't select a vacation where
I'm not doing, you know, less than fifty percent of
the things that I really want to do, I'm not
going to spend my time with that. So it's just
really really funny how every other aspect of life we're
(10:04):
all about choosing things Like now I'm on a streaming service,
I'm not choosing shows that I'm not going to enjoy
more than fifty one percent of the time. Like that's
so that research definitely makes sense. And I think when
it comes down to it, like I think we need
to be doing our work, not just going to work,
like do your work, like the work that is set
(10:25):
out for you because of your temperament or different abilities, passions,
those sorts of things. And again, like I know I'm
signing idealistic and it's part of my personality type being
an I INFP, But like I would love for us
to create a system where we can actually do our work,
you know, do work that fits our personality type, our abilities,
our passions, so that when when we go to our workplace,
(10:47):
we gain energy and we're inspired so we can actually
do the real jobs of relating with others, being great parents,
being great spouses, brothers, sisters, and friends, and serving others
in man. And I really do believe in that system,
Like I really do believe that work is provided for
us to give us energy to do the things that
(11:09):
really matter, like and taking care of our kids and
serving others. And I think so many times how many
people are really stressed out when they go home to
their kids because of their work.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think that's really really a shame. Just imagine what kind.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Of world that we can have if we had work
that actually fit our personality type.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
That'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
It would be pretty cool. And what you're saying here
is because I'm right there with you, Mark, I'm that
idealistic person too, And I have a friend, in fact,
it's really interesting because it's an NFP friend of mine,
so same personality type as mine, who truly believes that
work is not meant to be fun. Work is named
(11:53):
work for a reason. And when I hear that, you know,
it's painful. It's truly painful for me to hear that,
because I do not hold that belief at all. It
work can be fun, work can be stimulating and engaging.
And you know, I see a lot of articles on
these subjects, especially recently. These are hot topics in the
(12:16):
world of leadership and human resources, and you know, it's
really unfortunate to me to see that. There's so much
talk about this about how we need workspaces that accommodate everyone,
but honestly, I see very little of it being done
in practice. So, folks, if you are a leader who's
tuning in, I really like to invite you to please
(12:38):
pay attention here, because you have added influence. You can
help your people and your organization for the better. And
you know, Mark, I know we're talking about being idealists here,
but I do think there's a link between what we
love to do now as adults and what we loved
to do as a child, Like our earliest career members,
(13:00):
like what did we want to be when we grew up?
In fact, this is one of my favorite questions to
ask people when I start talking about personality and careers. So, Mark,
how about you? Do you remember what you wanted to
be when you grew up? Did you have any childhood
dreams of, like, you know, being an astronaut or a
veterinarian or a police officer or president or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, yes, you know, it's funny you think, and I
do use that a lot for kids. You know, what
do you want to do when you grow up? And I,
frankly don't remember a lot of those conversations in my
household and where I grew up. I was born in Jamaica.
Jamaican's are known to really really work hard, and we
didn't really get that conversation of you know, what would
(13:44):
be your ideal job and what would be your dream
job like they believed kind of like what your friend
believe Edith, which is your job is what you do
to work, like your weekends when you get a chance
to do the things that you really want to do, right,
but like it's called work for a reason. I remember
my mom and dad used to always say that, like you,
(14:05):
especially when we came to this country, because you know
that I was born in Jamaica, but my parents came
to this country for the opportunities for me, right, for
the opportunities for myself and my brother and my sister
to maybe do the things that we're going to lead
to success, not necessarily to get your dream job. And
I remember sometimes I would say, you know, I think
(14:25):
one of the things I want to do in my
life is possibly be a professional athlete. That was immediately
shot down and scoffed at, right, like when we didn't
come to America for you to be an athlete. We
could have stayed in Jamaica and you could have been
usaying vote for that like it's but you obviously weren't
fast enough for that endeavor. So we didn't really get
(14:46):
into that conversation. But because I'm this individual who's idealistic,
and because I'm always trying to figure out how I
can reach my potential, I think I always was thinking
about what I was going to do in the future,
and obviously, being an athlete, I guess your dream would
always be to be a professional athlete. Unfortunately, that dream
(15:08):
was kind of snuffed out from me because I actually
played with a professional athlete, and it's different when you
dream about becoming a professional athlete and when the reality
is practicing next to you and he's just doing something
totally different and performing at a higher level naturally than
you are, right, And so I realized, yeah, probably being
(15:29):
a professional athlete is probably not in my car just
because I'm seeing it. Maybe I need to think about
some other things. So I kind of looked at how,
you know, what my parents were doing. So my mom
was a nurse. I didn't really have any interest in
the science fields, but my dad was a business person
and a leader. And my dad took on leadership roles
(15:50):
wherever he was, whether he was an elder in church,
whether he was a manager at his business he worked
for an insurance firm, whether he was just the leader
in our family and our extended family.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
He possessed these roles.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And I think that's something that I saw and something
that I gravitated to to becoming a leader. And you
know when you're growing up in the nineties and it's
all about getting rich quick. Well, if you're a leader
and you want to get rich and you want to retire,
then do business. And so that made a lot of
sense to me. I'm going to go be a CEO.
I'm going to run these companies. I'm a leader in
(16:27):
my sports, I'm a leader in class. I'm doing a
lot a lot of good things in my estimation. So
that kind of steered me towards the business route. And
that's what I took as one of my majors in college,
like I'm going to be I'm going to work in business.
What I didnt realize was I was also ignoring hints
and clues about who I actually was, Like there were
(16:48):
things that I was naturally doing that. I was ignoring
because I was pursuing this idea of who I was
because of my dad, because of how people looked at
me and that sort of thing, because of the leadership
roles that I was pursuing in my sports. But I
remember when I had an internship in Merrill Lynch. I
remember thinking to myself, I don't know if this is
(17:11):
really a great fit for me. I don't like managing
people like and I saw a lot of people that
were managing people, they were managing systems. There was a
lot of things that were going on in the business
like job task that naturally didn't fit me. Now I'll
do it like I'll do it, but it didn't naturally
fit me. And again another clue was out there, Like
I was in this internship program, and it got to
(17:35):
a point where we didn't even have to dress up
for the internship because they had us in the back
room like organizing their files like from like nineteen seventy
six and all this other stuff. And so I was
working with some individuals. I was working with some individuals
who were also in the internship program on that, and
of course my INFP comes up to me and said,
there's got to be a better way than this, Like,
(17:57):
you have these smart individuals who are juniors in college
who are taking this internship program at Merrill Lynch, Like,
you got to find a way to do this. So
me and my friend created a presentation. So we created
a presentation and how they can better use their interns
to not only have the interns experience the job to
(18:19):
see if it's a good fit for them, but to
see if they can recruit those individuals for that job.
And I didn't care. I went up to the managers
and I said, hey, we'd love to do a presentation,
like knowing what I know now, like managers don't have
half an hour, said listen to some kids talk about
what they should be doing. But I didn't think so
like io, this comes you know, being a son of
(18:41):
Dorothy and Barry Matthew, a person who's highly confident and
believes that this is something that we should do. So
we presented it to them and they loved it. Now
I don't think they changed their internship program. But again,
hints right, hint saying you're not a manager, but you're
you're a person who wants to figure out how to
better things. Your person wants to increase capacity, your personal
(19:04):
wants to help, whether it be people or systems, reach
its potential. But of course I'm ignoring it to the
point where I try to get my MBA.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
So I'm still on my goal.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
I'm going to put on my suit and I'm going
to be a financial advisor and I'm going to take
my MBA. I graduated college in four years, but I
have an extra year of football eligibility, so I'm going
to graduate, which is great, graduating four, play my fifteen,
and then start my MBA program, which you know, William
(19:36):
and Mary will end up paying a year for. So
I thought that would be great, except for I do
horrible on standardized testing, and so my GMATS prevented me
from that route. So I wasn't able to pursue the NBA.
One of my friends who scored, you know, excellently on
it and who's actually very successful, Bryce Lee, who's actually
(19:57):
very successful in Williamsburg as a financial consultant. I kind
of look at him and think that could have been me.
But then I see his work task when I'm down there,
and I'm like, I'm so glad that's because I'll give you, Like,
so what he does, is he'll have I'll come down
for the football games. They'll be in the skybox and
all that other stuff, and he's spending his entire time
(20:17):
humming it up with people and doing the social thing
and getting people excited and comfortable just so that way
they can maybe signed onto their program. Like I would
have hated that, right, So I'm so glad that I
didn't go that route.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
So like it's almost like the universe kind of intervened
in a way, or God intervened in a way for
you to not do so well on those gmats and
kind of like steering you in a different direction, so
to speak.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Oh so was God that friends scoring high on my
GMAT like that?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
You don't know, I don't know, I don't know. That's
just what it sounded like to me. Is I'm listening
to your story.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
All this time.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
I thought it would be because I wasn't that smart,
And it was a blessing.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
It was a blessing in disguise, is what it sounds
like to me, because that would not have been the
right path for you, you.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Know, absolutely, I mean, And if you're over here having
me think a little bit about just the idea that
and I do. I'm I'm a believer in seeing that
certain things happened for a reason, because it didn't scare me.
Because here's my situation. I've graduated William and Mary, but
I don't have anywhere to go to school, Like so
you have to in order for you to in order
(21:32):
for you to play football, you have to be attending
a school. So goodness, you talk about like you know,
certain things happening and maybe God opening up away. When
the director of the business school said no, we're not
going to let you in to the next day, two
people left. This is August. Two people left the education
program and opened up a space for me to get
(21:55):
in there. And of course I don't do well on
on my standardized testing, but I get in nonetheless. So
you're right, it seems like I was being scared to
that direction. And you know, as I'm looking through the
careers that a person would do with a master's in education,
I'm looking through it and I'm literally going through the
(22:16):
book and saying no, no, no, no, no, you know,
like you know, teacher, absolutely not, like who would ever
become a teacher? Like, so I'm going through all these jobs, professor, no,
absolutely not. All these I feel like these jobs don't fit.
And then one stands out director athletic director, and I said,
you know what, like, yeah, with sports and leadership, I'm
(22:40):
still on that kick right managing because I still haven't
learned my lesson I could do that. Here's what ended
up happening. Once I finished playing football, I still had
to finish up my master's degree. So in that spring,
I decided, if I'm going to become an athletic director,
why not become a coach and try to figure out
what a coach goes through so I can better manage them,
(23:02):
which is something I realized I never wanted to do.
I could better manage them, right. But what I realized
was coaching was exactly the field that I needed to
go into, because now I'm doing things that I'd always done.
Like now I'm doing things where i'm you know, trying
to figure out how can help people reach their potential.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
That's what a coach does, Like I'm able to get.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Together with a group of people to figure out the
best way for us to do certain things for us
to win football games. Like I'm able to do all
these things. I'm able to solve problems I'm able to
process things. That's my introverted me right, process things all
the way down and be able to come up with
certain things and figure things out. And that's my intuitive side.
So once I got into coaching, I realized this is
(23:45):
where I need to be.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
This is my fit.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
And I loved it so much that I didn't even
finish my master's program. Like I just said, I was
totally converted to being a coach, and because that was
something that.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Totally fit me.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And what situation occurred that allowed me to come down
to the high school level was I'm starting to listen,
to work fit and to do the things that fit
me right. And so now I'm starting to say to myself,
as I've become a college football coach, it's not just
about developing your players. Now I have to go recruit
(24:19):
other players. And now I'm spending more time recruiting players
than I am developing my players. And I just said,
I don't know, I'd rather just spend more time developing players.
And I decided, you know what, you know who did
a great job of that, my head football coach at
Shan Tilly. I'm just going to do what he did.
I'm going to become a head football coach in high school.
(24:39):
While I'm not recruiting, I'm going to focus on developing
these players and helping them reach their potential, and that
sort of help them become not only great football players,
but good men, husbands, you know, be able to you know,
be great citizens and that sort of stuff. And I
was really that appeal to me, and I realized the
only way I can do that was to be a teacher.
So that led me to that role where I'm teaching, okay,
(25:03):
but I'm also able to coach too as well. So
it's just funny how at times I had ignored the
clues of what I was really good at. I was
giving advice to kids all the time when I was
in school, right, I totally ignored that. I was always
trying to help people reach their potential. Totally ignored that.
And really what it came down to it was these
(25:25):
situations that have occurred where I thought were roadbox, where
I thought those were obstacles in my career paths, were
actually scaring me to where I need to be. So
my dream didn't really happen, but the reality is pretty good,
and so I appreciate those roadblocks and those obstacles in
getting me to where I eventually needed to be.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, it's not too fun to when you're in the
midst of these tough times, like going through the roadblocks,
you know, but I think most of us do tend
to come out better on the other side of things.
We were able to look back and see, Okay, now
I know I had to go through this tough time,
and you learn from it, right, and we end up
(26:08):
being better people for going through these tough times, I think.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Yeah, So, so did you have these great career dreams
when you were growing up.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
No, No, not really, not really for sure. I never
ever would have thought I'd be where I am now,
which is, you know, I do work in the corporate
world now, then there's there's not very many E NFP
types or I NFP types where I work. And that's
not necessarily a bad thing, you know. I've I think
(26:40):
I've gotten pretty good at morphing myself into a more
ISTJ or EESTJ world and I've learned a lot. But
you know, like you were saying, there were a lot
of painful lessons there, and for me, it's not a
natural career fit. I can say that I can say that,
but that doesn't mean it's the wrong place for me
(27:00):
to be. I think for me, the earliest career dream
I can remember was I wanted to be a singer.
And what I loved about singing. It wasn't like the
technical aspect of the music or anything like that. It
was about performing and about making people smile and making
people feel good. And then, you know, I got to
(27:23):
be school aged and I wanted to be a teacher
and then a writer, and I had that dream for
a really long time, but as time went on, I
can't say that I had any real specific career ideas.
And I think that's the case for a lot of
NP intuitive perceiving types. We like ideas, and our ideas change,
(27:45):
and sometimes we kind of suffer from the grass is
Always Greener syndrome. You know. It's kind of like what
you were saying, Mark, that you had this dream of
playing football and then the reality it wasn't really it
didn't quite live up to the dream, you know. And
I think a lot of us NP personality types, I
think we have a lot of starts and stops in
(28:05):
our careers. We may have trouble nailing down a college major,
or we may drop out of college because we can't
figure out what we want to do. When I talk
about these topics, I like to encourage people to go
back to their earliest childhood career dream if they can,
and really think about that and dig deep before you
(28:25):
get like corrupted by the external world. What does your
earliest career dream say about your values and what you enjoy?
And for me, I have this very fuzzy kind of
dream in the back of my head that it would
still be fun to be a singer. I'm not gonna lie.
It might be kind of at least that idea is there,
(28:48):
But is that realistic? No flipping way. But the constant,
the constant thing is that I still love to make
people smile. I love to make people happy, and you know,
even in my job now, I like to think that
I do that every day in my job. I feel like,
(29:08):
you know, the universe had me get into this type
of field that I'm in now because of that, because
I'm bringing a certain energy there that was not there
before me, and I think it helps people and that's
pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
I'm really glad we're talking about this because I feel
like there's a lot of not just students, but just
adults that struggle with why am I on earth? Like,
like what was my particular vocation? Those sorts of things
that I was actually born to do? Right, And I
think a lot of times our earliest dreams, the things
that we naturally do or enjoy, gives us clues to
(29:46):
what we really want to do. So, like when you
evaluate what you were talking about, like you wanted to
be a singer, and I always call like, that's kind
of like the iceberg, right, Like we see the iceberg
of singing, but what is underneath that iceberg is truly
what you want to do? Like, so the iceberg effect
of there's certain things that we see that we enjoy doing,
(30:07):
but why do we enjoy doing those things? Like you're saying,
like singing allowed you to make people happy, and it
allowed you to get them going and inspire them and
that sort of stuff. That's what you thought singing did,
But that's not the only profession that allows you to
do that. The big question is once we figure out
why we do something, then now it's okay, what is
(30:28):
the actual job that allows me or it gives me
the affords me the opportunity to do those things?
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And I felt like, that's what you're doing. You're figuring out.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Ways to do what singing allowed you to do younger.
You're finding other ways to do that same thing, if
that makes.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Sense exactly exactly now. To be fair, I still love music,
all kinds of music. I was really lucky to have
parents who encouraged this in me. And you know, I
had music lessons from a really young age, probably learned
how to read music before I could read, and you know,
that was really really cool in my development. So it's
(31:07):
not just about you know, making people happy and all
the secondary is I mean, just music for the sake
of music. But that's you know, that's just me. And
I think that what you're saying there mark about just
digging deep. There's definitely something to that, just a lot
of self reflection. And I wish that more of us
would do this today, and I wish more parents would
(31:27):
encourage their kids to do that for themselves.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
You know, yeah, now what do you like? What are
you naturally good at? Like? What are you passionate about? Again?
Speaker 4 (31:38):
It goes about these are clues that I really believe
that your soul is giving you saying this is what
I want to do.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Allow me to do more of that.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
And I think unfortunately what we do as a society,
we say, you know, you can't do that. You have
to then change who you are and transform yourself to
something that we approve.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I get it, Like I know we have to to
work and get money for something. But at the end
of the day, I really feel like we as human
beings are just trying to let out who we are
into the world, right, And I think sometimes when we
go through things, our natural gifts are screaming at us,
do what you are, do what you are, like, just
find something a career that allows you to do what
(32:20):
you are. If I would have known about MBTI career
fit right as I was growing up, I would have
realized that business wasn't the fit for my personality. Like
I would have realized that managing people wasn't something that
I should do. What it really was was coaching people,
Like That's what really got me fired up and got
me excited. You know, I might be in a totally
(32:42):
different career now, And so I think it's really important
as we grow. As you know, parents who want to
see their child achieve and do great things as adults.
I think it's important that we say, what are the
clues my child is showing? And when you become, you know,
a teenager or a young adult, what are the clues
that your body's giving you and telling you that you
(33:06):
should be or you should do. Like these things are
examples of certain ways to find perfect fits. And one
of the things that we're doing now is when you
don't find the perfect fit right because we don't have
a system that allows you to actually find your natural fit.
So when you're in that role where you don't really
quite fit, well, well, can you contribute your natural gifts
(33:28):
to that space? And I think for me that's what
I try to do it. So I'm always trying to
do the do what you are motto in my own
job too right now, so as in my job as
a teacher and as a coach, I'm always going to
now contribute my personal gifts to my environment. So everybody
knows as who either was a student of mind or
(33:50):
a player of mine, I'm going to have these things
called life lessons with coach or mister Matthew. And like
I said, you're a player, and you know it's coming
where he's going to contribute his personal gift, his personality
gifts to you. So that way, I'm essentially in my
job doing what I am, which is something that I
really appreciate. And I really encourage everybody to figure out
(34:13):
how they can contribute their personality and their gifts and
their strengths to their natural environment.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah. Yeah, and they are lucky to have you, to
have you Mark so And you know, I hear these
things a lot, like if i'd only known about the
MBTI when I was younger. And you know, my response
to that is that we're living in a world where
change is possible. Career change is possible. It doesn't matter
(34:41):
how old you are. There are a lot of resources
out there that can help you figure things out and
start a new path if that's what you want to do.
And yeah, we do have bills to pay, and it
might be harder as an adult to start over again,
but it's not impossible. It's a values and the fact
is that, yeah, you're probably going to have to give
(35:03):
up something to go back to school and get another
credential or change paths, and it'll be time, it might
be some money, but is it worth it? And that's
a question only you can answer. And look I'm not
here to say that you should or shouldn't, but I
do think that if you're asking yourself these types of questions,
(35:24):
then it's time to really think about yourself and what
you want and seek out a career coach or a
career counselor if you need someone to help you through
the process. And some people do really well just by
reading books or listening to podcasts or audiobooks or whatever.
What color is your Parachute? Or you know, the Meyers
(35:45):
Briggs book that I know you've referenced before, Mark is
Do What You Are by Paul Tiger and Barbara Bearn Teeger,
And there are others other books as well. And you know,
COVID really encouraged or even forced us in a lot
of cases to rethink our careers. So, like you said, Mark,
we spend so much of our time at work and
(36:08):
it really should be doing something that we want to do,
not something that makes us miserable.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Absolutely kind of on that point, can you talk a
little bit about the importance of knowing your ideal environment
for your personality?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like why is that important?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, So, there are a lot of reasons why knowing
your personality type can help you out in not only
finding the right career fit, but the right workplace fit.
First off, it helps improve communication. I mean that's a
big one. And you know we've talked about this before.
Knowing who you're dealing with will help you determine how
to best approach the people you're working with, like your
(36:47):
peers and your supervisor. And you know, if you're a manager,
the people who work under you too. And by having
an understanding of how each person works best, you can
better gauge what they need to work effectively, and that
improves teamwork and collaboration, and it can help resolve conflicts too.
(37:10):
So let me give you an example in my workplace.
So I have a few direct reports who are self
reported introverts, right, they need those telework days. They are
not as productive when they're in the office. And you
know that's just because there's a lot of banter going on.
There's a lot of noise around and people are talking
(37:31):
and people come up and interrupt them. So I make
sure that those folks have their telework days as much
as it's possible for me to do.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I also have a number of jays or judging types
on my team, and me being a perceiver. I know
I'm not going to get the best out of them
if I don't do my part to stay organized. I
try as best as I can to. You know, if
we have a meeting, I want to be productive. I
(38:01):
want it to be on time. I don't want it
to go over time. I need to plan out what
the purpose of the meeting is, make sure that I'm ready,
because I don't want to waste anybody's time, especially Jay types. Right.
And then, you know, most importantly, I take the time
to get to know each of these people as individuals.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
What kind of.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Tasks do they like to do, what do they not
like to do? And this way we can divide the
work up better. Now, of course, sometimes we all, you know,
we have to do things we don't like to do.
But the more that we can take the time to
get to know each other's strengths and weaknesses and personality types,
(38:44):
the better we can all work together. And you know,
I like to think that I have a pretty good
team and that we do a lot to help each
other out. We have a lot of cohesion, and you know,
I think we all just genuinely like each other and
we do good work too, And.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
It's so valuable, right, it's so valuable to the points
that you're making when it comes to teamwork. You know,
when you look at the acronym a lot of times
people will use this team together, everybody achieves more. It's
absolutely the case, like we accomplish more working collectively than
we do like working individually. And so I think it's
(39:23):
really really important to understand each individual's personality strengths and
try to create an environment that allows that to happen.
And I think probably the best example of that is
the body, right, Like the body does that. Like the
body's not trying, like the body parts and the individual
organs aren't all trying to do the same thing. The
heart has its role and it's in an environment to
(39:44):
do the right thing. Like the lungs has its role
and it's in the environment to do the right thing.
And by allowing us to work together, you have a
really really well functioning body. And I think that's the case.
Is what are the strengths that you have, put them
in an environment that all them to do their work,
and then together, as being a manager, how does that
all work together for everything that we want, which is
(40:07):
productivity and all that other stuff. So I think that's
really really a great point when it comes to how
do you create an ideal workplace environment. It's not necessarily
maybe even careers as much as it's like, there's a
bunch of things we got to get done. Who best
fits those roles to get those things done?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
You know? I think that's really really important role for that.
So I like that point.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
So it if I've been doing I know you're the
MBTI practitioner, but I've been doing a little bit of research.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So one of the.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
Books that you read or or you talked about was
a book by Paul Tigger and BARBERA.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Tigger Do what you are?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And so I looked up your personality type and you're
the work environment that best fits you e n FP.
And so what I want to do is I want
to ask you some questions about your personality type and
the work environment and just try to figure out how
ideal listen is that fit for you?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Do you want you want to do? You want to
play that game real quick?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
This sounds like so much fun, Mark, I am game
for this game. So, okay, so you're gonna ask me
questions about my current work environment? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (41:13):
No, we don't all ideal because remember I'm ideal, Like
I don't talk about what you currently are.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I would not. I don't care about your current steps.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Well that's good because I don't want any I don't
want any of my current work people tuning in and
hearing if I say something bad. So yeah, I perfect me.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
It's perfect, all right.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
So first question, So the title of your personality type
in the book is called anything as Possible.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Do you think that best reflects you?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yes, that's a pretty good motto for me. Anything is possible.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yes, You've had experiences where you feel like you wanted
to experience a different, like a wide variety of things,
like do you consider that as part of your like
are they where they are?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Multiple career?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, I liked. I definitely like to experience things variety
of things for sure, because like any E NFP type,
I'm going to get bored. This is, you know, unfortunately
one of the fortunately or unfortunately I'm going to say
this is one of the hallmarks of an E NFP
type is that we may get bored easily doing the
(42:26):
same old thing day after day. No, we need variety,
and one way I think that we can get a
lot of varieties. Just is, have a lot of different experiences.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So you like to in your work ideal workplace. You
want to be able to experience different things. And you
don't necessarily want to stay in one activity or one
thing for too long.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
No, absolutely not No. If I had to do the
same thing day after day, I would go crazy.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
I got you, no question. That's that's that's interesting. I
like that second question. Okay, how well does this sentence
match you? E NFPs enjoy the creative process, especially if
it offers opportunities for collaboration and to be inspired by
working with others. The more on constrained and flexible the
(43:13):
working environment, the better.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I'm just laughing here. Ten out of ten, ten out
of ten. For sure, I am an endless supply of
clever new ideas. The newer, the more out of the box,
the better. And if I could be around a whole bunch,
like I'm just thinking about other e NFPs, if we
(43:37):
just you know, had this creative process together, which, come
to think of it, I have had before, and it's
you know, it's a little overwhelmed. It can be even
a little overwhelming for me. You know, just all of
these very extroverted people shooting out all sorts of different
ideas and it's just like one idea after another and
(43:59):
we just keep trying to one up each other. Is
kind of how it feels. And then you know, nothing
gets accomplished. But that's okay, I mean, so what nothing
gets accomplished, We're having fun.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Yeah, I can only imagine being an introvert that you
know that experience. I would probably need to get a
time out.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeh yeah, I mean even after after a couple hours,
me too, I think.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Yeah, no question okay, Question number three? Do you take
the needs and concerns of other people into consideration and
devise innovative and humane solutions to their problem?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah? A ten out of ten. Again, Yeah, I probably
to the detriment of myself. A lot of the time,
I am very very others focused, I will admit it.
And one of the things that I'm constantly doing inside
my head when I meet somebody, when I meet somebody new,
(44:56):
is I'm I'm type casting them and trying to figure
out what their Meyers Briggs type is. And yeah, I know,
to all the type practitioners, if you're tuning in right now,
like I know, I'm not supposed to be doing that,
and you know you all know you do it too.
It's something like we can't we can't turn it off.
But it's not like I'm trying to judge somebody. No,
(45:19):
I like to say I'm a very non judgmental person,
as non judgmental as one can be. That's me. What
I'm trying to do is trying to figure them out
so I can find a way to best relate to
them and best communicate with them. And you know, I
know that one time, Mark, we were talking about having
this win win situation and I feel that too. Yeah,
(45:39):
I'm always I'm looking for a win win, and if
I'm being honest with myself, it's more about the other
person winning over myself.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, I can relate, I can relate with that.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
That's our f that's our f feeling type purport really
screaming at.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
Us there, Yeah, for sure. So I'll end up with
this last.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
Question because I mean, it seems like a lot of these,
like your work environments are really really matching you. Let
me see why. I can go five for five. Okay,
how well does this sentence match you? NFPs are born entrepreneurs.
They enjoy working for themselves because it gives them freedom
and flexibility and the opportunity to choose projects they wish
(46:22):
to work on and people they want to work with.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Well, you know, this is where I'm not going to
go for a ten out of ten on this one.
But this is just me because I know there are
so many NFP entrepreneur types out there, and in fact,
I did a podcast on this a couple of years ago,
and I can relate to the ideas of this, But
for me personally, it's being an entrepreneur myself, I have
(46:48):
a side gig. As an entrepreneur, I have to say
that I like the stability of having a regular paycheck
and regular schedule. Somehow, I think that helps me if
I don't have these deadlines. I'm not somebody who can
have self imposed deadlines quite so easily. I feel like
(47:11):
I need somebody to help me with the more monotonous
aspects of the job, like accounting and taxes and all
the yucky things like that. So I yeah, it's half
and half.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
You know what's so funny about that, though, because you know,
I think what it's saying to entrepreneurs, especially if you're
e NFP, I think it's going more towards the point
of you want freedom and flexibility. So it's almost like
if you took the entrepreneurship word out, I think you'd
be able to relate to that, right, because another aspect
(47:46):
that is a part of your work environment type is
I can become overwhelmed by details and paralyzed by the
need for organization. I would prefer someone else to take
over the routine and the follow up, which is part
of the reason why you said you don't think you
would be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Because of that.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
But the work type does show that you guys don't
want to deal with all the.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Details of that sort of stuff. So that's prett be funny.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, one hundred percent. Yeah. And flexibility, yeah,
definitely need that, need autonomy whatever I'm doing. So okay,
so I sound like a typical NFP. So that's a relief.
Speaker 4 (48:24):
Well yeah, And I think what's even helpful is if
I was a manager and you were able to articulate
that to me, like if you were able to say, hey,
these are the type of work tasks that I like.
Here's some of the work environments that I like. Even
if I had that catalog in my brain, I'm not
saying I'd be able to change things, but if I
had the opportunity to, if I knew that information, would
(48:46):
I like, just by you articulating those things that you
like to do, powerful could that be for a manager
to better to manage you in a way to help
you reach your top potential and help you enjoy your job.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
That's something could be.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
That could be something that's really really you know, important
and important for us to know.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, for real, for real, if you are lucky enough
to have a manager who supports that and supports your
growth for sure. Okay, So I think it should be
my turn now, Mark to ask you some questions because
I have this book too. I have this book Do
what You.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Are so great?
Speaker 1 (49:28):
And the IFP section here? So how well do you
think this sentence describes you? Still? Waters run deep?
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Ooh?
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I think what I could really really identify with is
runs deep. I think everything I do is processed at
a very very deep level. And matter of fact, when
I would have discussions with people, I would say, Hey,
are you ready to put on your scuba gear? Like
cause I'm going to go deep, Like we are going
to go deep into this conversation. So I definitely can
(49:59):
really with the deep aspect of it, and I guess
the still portion, I guess I could consider that too,
because I do like to be by myself now with
a lot of commotion and that.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Sort of stuff. So I could definitely see how that
would relate with my situation. Absolutely I can see that.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Hmm. Okay, So you might have a little bit of
you know, movement here on the on the waters, not
completely still, but definitely running.
Speaker 3 (50:25):
Deep, definitely running deep, like very very deep.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, okay, okay, I yeah, I believe that about you, okay,
And how well do these statements match your ideal work environment?
So one allows me to help others grow and develop
and realize their potential.
Speaker 4 (50:46):
Yeah, that's Mark Mathew, Like, it's not what I like
to do. That's who I am. Like understanding people and
helping them reach their potential is exactly why I was born.
And because of my ability to figure things out and
my and my deep processing system, it's really allowed me
to be really self reflective and to figure that out.
(51:08):
So any opportunity that I have, like if I see you, like,
I'm going to be like, hey, how's the weather, and
then I'm probably gonna go in some type of deep
questioning to have you process like like why you exist
in the world.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Like that where I'm.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
Going so yeah, like just to try to get to
know people to a point where I can help them
reach their potential.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
So that defines me absolutely perfect match.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Okay, allows me to work towards fulfilling my ideals and
not be limited by political, financial, or other obstacles.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah. Ding ding ding ding ding ding Like it's that's me, Okay.
Speaker 4 (51:52):
I mean how many times on the show have I
mentioned that I'm idealisting?
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You're an idealist?
Speaker 4 (51:56):
Yeah, nothing makes me more frustrated than also the politics
of things, So like, I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
I hear you there, Okay. Next one involves understanding people
and discovering what makes them tick. Allows me to develop
deep one on one relationships with others.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
You know the answer, Yes, I mean a.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Numerous times as well, yep, yep. And then of course
this one is is you as well as always seeking
an ideal situation.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
That was really good, Like I didn't. I didn't know
that I would be such an ideal fit for the
environments that that book was mentioning that that that's pretty
awesome if I kind of question. What advice would you
give any any students in high school about working and
finding the work environment that fits them since we've been
talking about.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
That, Yeah, that's a good question because yeah, with high school,
with high school students, you know what, get to know
your strengths and your interests. This is the time to
try different things if you're up for it. So think
about some extracurricular activities that interest you and start participating
(53:11):
in some of those activities and see if you like them.
You know, as an adult it's kind of it's harder
to find groups and extracurricular activities, and so when you're young,
it's easy for you to kind of find whatever you
like with your school or youth groups or something like that.
So definitely, I would say take advantage of that. And
(53:32):
if you've found some groups or activities that you like,
take some time to reflect on why you like them,
What is it about that activity that really excites you,
and think about themes. Do you like participating in groups
or do you prefer independent activities for example, And then
think about things that you absolutely don't like to do,
(53:55):
and what is it that you don't like about these things?
There are a lot a lot of websites that you
can go to that can help you with this. But
also don't forget that you have teachers, teachers like mister
Mathe and guidance counselors who are there to help you too.
So think about those people who you gravitate towards in
(54:17):
your life and talk to them. Take the time to
ask them about their career paths and listen to their
advice if it's possible. I know Mark you mentioned before
an internship you had, and some high school students can
have internships as well, So try an internship and get
at plast for what the working world is like. And again,
there are tons of resources out there to help you.
(54:40):
The only thing you need to do is to just
take that first step to ask for help. But once
you do that, I think you're going to be amazed
at the doors that start opening up for you.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (54:51):
Like, what amazing advice to give an individual who's still
trying to process and figure out what their future might
look like.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (55:01):
I've just been really really blessed at in it with
just this discussion. I think that work is so important.
We spend so much time there and I think it's
so important for us to really break this down. So
I really really appreciate that. But last question I have
for you, what advice do you have for our adults
working in careers that don't quite necessarily fit their personalities
(55:25):
or their strengths.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah? Many, Unfortunately that goes for many people out there.
And I'm going to say much the same thing that
I said to for our young people. Take some time
to think about what it is that you like to do,
what you don't like to do, what your strengths and
your weaknesses are, what your values are, and what's realistic
at this point in your life. And again, there are
(55:47):
lots of resources out there to help you and guide you.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
So on that note, if our listeners wanted to find
out more about the MBTI and work, should they go.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
So.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
One of my favorite resources is actually another podcast series
I did called The Myers Briggs for Midlife Career Changers.
And this is a sixteen part series, one episode for
each of the sixteen Myers Briggs types, and it focuses
on career paths for each personality type and each episode
is geared towards one type. So I have one episode
(56:23):
for our istj friends and one for our E, NFJ,
friends and so on, And you can find links to
these on my website at top career dot com and
they're also available on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
That's great to hear.
Speaker 4 (56:41):
I definitely want to tune into that IFP podcast now,
so I'm making a note on that it if. But
with that, I think we're gonna have to wrap things
up for this episode. Hey folks, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you ed If for your expertise, and we'll be
seeing you again next time. Thanks for tuning in, follow
(57:07):
us on social media and your favorite podcast.
Speaker 1 (57:10):
Platform, and please reach out to me on LinkedIn and
on my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myers Briggs and MVTI R trademarks of the
Meersbriggs Foundation viewpoints expressed, here are our own
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