November 14, 2023 • 46 mins
The Myers-Briggs is a valuable tool for building and maximizing team performance. It can help your team improve communication, how you approach work tasks, learning styles, and work in the modern (remote or hybrid) work environment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, folks. Have you ever wondered why you don't get
along with a certain colleague at work? Or there's this
person in your life who just drives you crazy because
the way they go about their life just seems so wrong. Today,
we're going to be breaking it down for you the
four dichotomies of the Myers Briggs and how they show
(00:21):
up with teams at work and elsewhere. And maybe you
already know your Myers Briggs type, but you're not sure
how to best use it when working with your teammates
with very different types. We hope this episode will help
you understand your own strengths and weaknesses so that you
can better collaborate with your teammates and thrive in the
(00:42):
workplace and beyond. Welcome to the new Myers Briggs Question Corner.
(01:08):
I'm Edith Richards and I'm Mark Mappy, and we're here
to answer your questions about all things personality and all
things Myers Briggs.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right fit. This is such an important
(01:41):
topic for today teams and how our knowledge of personality
can help us achieve more. It seems like we live
in a more interdependent society. Today and even after COVID,
we understand how important human interaction is. Although many workspaces
are moving towards hybrid work right and working at home,
(02:02):
you can't get away from working on teams and creating
the synergy needed to be productive. And when we discuss
MPTI and work will help me understand how certain meetings
will go. So if I'm in a meeting with a
lot of extroverts in the room, it's always going to
be a lot of ideas being thrown out. It might
be all over the place, right, it might be just
(02:24):
a rack of different ideas that are being thrown out
from different spaces. I have to know that so I
don't get frustrated, and I have to work hard to
process all the information that's out there. My strategy is
to listen, process, try to figure it out, and then
give us a synct summary to where we are and
what we're trying to do. I love the zoom option
(02:46):
because I can just allow the extroverts to just talk,
and then I could just put my stuff in the
chat and be able to get that kind of done right.
So you know, in our interaction is with like your workspaces,
you talked about like how our understanding of the Ford
economies helps us with teams, Like how does understanding how
we work and our personalities? How does that work with teams?
(03:08):
How does that work in your workspaces?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, so, first of all, let me just say that
I think this is a great way of using the
Meyers Briggs mark because you know, just knowing first of all,
knowing yourself and knowing what your own strengths and weaknesses are,
what your preferred means of communication is. I mean, that's
always the first step in working with a successful team, Right.
(03:30):
And then I really like what you said about knowing
the personality types of the other people you're going to
be working with, because then you can anticipate how this
meeting is going to go and maybe where you need
to focus your attention. Right, So really like that strategy
there that you have. I think it might be helpful
(03:51):
for our listeners to just give like a brief review
here of the four dichotomies. And we kind of already
started talking about the I and the E. This seems
to get a lot of press the introversion and extroversion dichotomy,
and really I think it's because that's the most visible dichotomy.
Why are you more of an extrovert or are you
(04:11):
more of an introvert? And what this one is about,
It's all about our energy source. So where do you
get your energy and where do you focus your attention.
So if you are an extroverted type, you're going to
get your energy more from the outer world than you
are from the inner world, and you're going to be
(04:32):
energized by being with people and participating in lots of
different activities. You might be at your best when you're
speaking in front of others or speaking within a group,
and you might enjoy networking, meeting new people, working in teams,
working in groups. Generally, extroverts have a lot of friends
(04:54):
or they know a lot of people, and they may
be seen as a people person. So in teams this
might play out by you might see extroverts talking through
a problem with others because talking things out helps them
to understand it better. And I know, just before we
(05:14):
started recording this episode, we were having a little conversation
here because that's something I do as an extrovert. I
tend to kind of talk things out. I might be
reading things and you know, I'm talking as I'm as
I'm reading, and I know other introverted types have remarked
about this before and wondering like, why is Edith talking
(05:35):
to herself here? I don't really understand or she is
she talking to me? So, but it's just it's my
way of processing information and somehow just talking about it
it makes it real for me. And then also extroverts,
because our attention is focused outward, we tend to take action,
(05:58):
and sometimes we may take action before we've had adequate
time to think it through. And I think extroverts can
get frustrated if they have to work alone too long,
so they really do need. We do need this interaction
with other people, working in teams, working with others, and
(06:20):
therefore we may appreciate a work environment that's a little
more fast paced and where there's more multitasking. So that's
kind of what it's like for generally speaking, for extroverts
in the world of work. Right, So, Mark, you're more
of an introvert, so you are going to get your
(06:41):
energy more from your inner world than your outer world,
and you're going to feel comfortable being alone more than
probably I would doing things on your own, or prefer
working in small groups rather than large groups, you tend
to be reflective and focus your attention inward. On the
(07:02):
other hand, a lot of introverts may wait too long
to take action because you like to carefully consider your
actions before you begin something, before you begin a project,
and may tend to focus on one task at a
time rather than multitasking. And a lot of introverts prefer
written communication working on projects on their own small groups.
(07:29):
Does it sound more like you, Mark, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It may sounds exactly like me. And and a lot
of times when you were explaining the extroverts, I can
see my frustrations. I can understand that. And that's why
we talked about knowledge of types and knowledge of temperaments, right,
And it really really allows you to get a gauge
of knowing, Okay, this is what I'm getting into. Until
you talked about our interaction that we had before we
(07:54):
came on here, and you automatically started to talk to
your thoughts, well, knowing that you're an extra and I'm
an introvert, I totally ignored that. So I'm able to
develop these strategies to diminish the amount of frustration that
you're going to have with teams. And that's kind of
the I think everybody wants to get to the same point. Like,
if your group comes together and they don't agree on
(08:17):
like where they're going, then nothing's that we're going to
get accomplished. But the question is when we all agree
that we're going to go this way. Understanding personality types
allows us to move along that trajectory faster because we're
not frustrated with each other because we know what we're getting.
So we know, you know, when you know that you
have eyes in your group, and if like you're an
(08:38):
extrovert and you have five eyes in your group, like,
what's your strategy of dealing with that?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, that's that's the question, right, So if we are
an extroverted type, like how can extroverts best work with introverts?
So my strategy is to make sure to give the
introverts ample time to think things out and think through
(09:05):
their ideas or their plans before sharing. Because a lot
of you know, there's that phrase still waters run deep, right,
There's a lot of information there, and I think a
lot of introverts can get, especially in a group meeting,
get overwhelmed by all these extroverts buying for attention. So
making sure that there's adequate time for them to process thoroughly.
(09:26):
And then there may be some introverts who don't want
to share during a team meeting for whatever reason. So
if I'm leading a team and I see somebody's you know, quiet,
I want to make sure I'm giving them space to
chime in and just say, hey, you know, I haven't
heard from you during this meeting. Is do you have
anything you want to share? And then if they don't,
(09:48):
also checking with them after the meeting. I think that's
helpful too. Maybe you know, for whatever reason they don't
want to speak up in the meeting, then they may
feel more comfortable talking to you one one after the meeting.
So that's something I think a lot of extroverts can do.
Just you know, make sure that you're including them, including
all the introverts in the conversations. And then for the introverts,
(10:13):
I mean, some things that I know that you do
mark when you're working with extroverts is you allow ample
time for them to talk it out and ample time
to process, because that's kind of what we need to
do to get things moving.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, and what I love about this again, we're trying
to see how are different types complete right, and so
the things that we are weak in. So, for instance,
as an introvert, we're thinking very deeply, so we don't
get the breath of information. So in our brainstorming technique,
we might not get as far because we're not throwing
(10:49):
ideas out there, because we like to process what's already
there and process it deeply, versus extroverts are providing the
breath of things like here's my thought, here's what I'm
doing here, there's this. And if I'm an introvert and
I don't understand that, and I don't understand how this
temperaments work, that can be very frustrating because I'm trying
to process things while extroverts are just trying to throw
(11:10):
information out. As an introvert that understands MBTI, now what
I do is I go, okay, that's perfect. That's a
brainstorming session that we're going to have during the situation.
Some might stick, some might not stick, right, But the
whole idea is we're getting as many great ideas as possible,
and now I can say, oh, actually, you know what,
what that eighteenth person said was actually something that we
(11:32):
can definitely use, and I can process that information and
then try to help you solve the issue, get to
where we need to go, provide perspectives, those sort of
things that work within my strengths. And that's one thing
we've always talked about, is understanding what your strengths are,
use that and and where you're going. And one of
the things I know that introverts kind of like. And
(11:53):
I could be incorrect with this in it, but it's meetings.
How do extroverts and introverts what's their perceptions of meeting.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I think that can be a commonality between I's and ease.
I'm not a big fan of meetings myself either personally.
I think that has a lot more to do with
things outside of what the Myers Briggs measures than the
Ie dichotomy. But you know, with that said, there may
be some other extroverts who who appreciate meetings, who appreciate
(12:23):
the chance to come together again for a number of
different reasons, whether it's you know, just to share some
information and updates, or for more face to face communication.
I mean, definitely, I would say extroverts need more of
that face to face communication than introverted types do.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I would agree with that. Here's what I'll say, and
I could be getting wrong with this, and I think
you mentioned this and if it could be a lot
of things that fall outside of personality. Yeah, I think
introverts don't mind meetings, Like we don't mind getting together
processing things and figuring things out and getting really really
deep into stuff. Extroverts, to me hate meetings. I can't
(13:04):
stand it unless they have unless the meetings about themselves, right,
and they can talk about themselves. But how many times
have I heard extroverts when it's not involving them, that
will say, like, all this stuff could have been done
in an email, like I didn't need Like when when
somebody's talking to them and like trying to give them
an introduction to stuff. I think when they're allowed to
brainstorm and give their ideas on something that's meaningful, I
(13:26):
think extroverts do like meetings. But when it becomes a
situation where they're not going to be able to voice
their thoughts and their opinions, I think that's when they
begin to get into a level of like we could
have shared all this stuff on an email, you know,
like I could have been doing a lot of other
things besides just meeting here and doing that. So sometimes
that's my experience I've seen with some extroverts in general.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, that's that's interesting. You know what I think it
is for me as you were talking about this, what
I was thinking, it's that very word meeting that I
don't know, maybe it gives me PTSD or something. If
you change the word meeting to get together or a
talk or something, that's going to change my whole perception
(14:07):
of it. So so there's that piece of it too.
But you know, bottom line, even within the dichotomies of
E and I, you know, there's varying levels of very
nuances that are just related to us as people too,
And it just shows that, you know, not every introverted
type is the same, not every extroverted type is the
(14:28):
same with our own flavors, right.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Man, That's what I love about. Like, but the NbTi,
you're giving yourselves general understanding of how things work, right,
But at the end of the day, we're all unique individuals,
Like everybody's not the same. But it gives us some
understanding of what environments really work for us and how
we can use those environments to fit us and get
to our ultimate goals, no matter what that is. In general.
(14:53):
So that's what I really really care and like about
the MBTI gives us general clues, but it doesn't mean
that we're type casting anybody to any certain type of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah this is who you are for sure. Yeah, we
don't want to do that. But then you know, also
there's three other dichotomies here, and I know the E
and the I. It gets a lot of airtime just
because of what it is. But this second dichotomy is
also I think super important because it relates to how
communication begins, how we communicate, and this is the sn
(15:26):
sensing intuition, and this is about how we absorb information.
So for our listeners who are tuning in, who prefer sensing,
so you may pay more attention to input from your
five senses. You probably have a preference for focusing on
what is current and real, like facts and important details.
(15:51):
You're realistic, you come up with practical solutions to problems.
On the other hand, you may not see future possibilities
easily because you're so focused on the past or present facts.
Right for our intuitive friends, if you prefer intuition, you
(16:11):
may prefer information you get through associations, and you pay
attention to meaning and patterns. You look at the big
picture before the facts. Intuitives are the folks who value
innovation and creativity, probably looking to the future and possibilities
(16:35):
more than to the past. And I'm going to say
we because Mark, you and I are both intuitives here,
you may sometimes under emphasize making these possibilities of reality
because we're so focused on what could be. What's real is,
you know, at least for a lot of intuitives, I
think boring by comparison, at least it is for me,
(16:58):
and personally, I think that this dyke ecotomy can be
especially challenging in teams because this is where as I
mentioned before, communication really starts happening. We can have a
sensor and an intuitive each looking at an object and
describing it very differently because they're each paying attention to
(17:18):
very different things. And Mark you and I being intuitive
types ourselves, I think we're going to come into a
teamwork setting with a lot of abstract focus. We're not
going to consciously define the steps that are needed to
get from point A to point B, because we naturally
leap over all these steps and reach our conclusion in
(17:40):
a kind of non straightforward way using our gut or
our sixth sense. Or our intuition here, And this can
be confusing for someone who's a sensing type because sensors
need these details. They want to see a practical application
of the information that we can of them. They want
(18:00):
to see the logical sequence. They want to follow things
in a step by step fashion. So we may want
some type of deeper meaning. Being intuitives, we want to
extract meaning from things where there may not be any
meaning to extract. And when we have to remember this,
when sensing types are communicating with us, they stick to
(18:21):
the facts. They present the facts. This is what it is.
You know, what you see is what you get. There
is often no hidden meanings there for what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I think you make a really good point about
the communication aspect and how we communicate a lot of
times I see this when you're dealing with sensors and
intuitives is how they tell stories, right, Like, one story
from a sensory will be very detail oriented or we
started here, we did this, we did that, versus an
into it might have different ideas and different facts and
(18:53):
might talk about how that story might fit into today's
world and that sort of things, and so we're very
abstract them that as far as an intuitive and so
how we communicate can be very very difficult because we're
looking at things in different perspectives and that can be
very challenging in a meeting. But again going back understanding,
(19:13):
that will be important. If I understand that I have
a sensor in a meeting, I need to be highly detailed,
Like they want to know this is going to work.
Like they're not against innovation, right, they're not against moving
outside of the box, but you need to prove to
them that that sort of stuff would work, right, like,
this is how I've had experience with this, this is
how it was proved in this side of things, Like
(19:36):
you know, this is the best practice here, And I
think they're willing to go along with as long as
you show them proof that these things can work, because
they're kind of in the here and the now. They're
into what things have been proven before, just doing things
just the normal way. And so as long as I
understand that's what they need, I can provide that for them.
But if I don't know that's what they need, I
(19:57):
can be frustrated by their lack their willingness to try
things and to be different.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I really like what you said there
about them needing proof because they go by they go
by experience, Like experience is the proof that they need.
So there's a saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And I think that that very much applies to a sensor.
They're not going to be looking for some kind of
new approach naturally and breaking it down. I think that's
(20:26):
very helpful for the sensors. And this is where I
see a lot of intuitive types really missing the mark.
When they're working with a sensor. You have to slow
down and break it down step by step. So you
go from it's almost like you're solving like an algebra
problem or something. Well there I go with my intuitive
kind of metaphor here in pattern. But I think it's
(20:49):
helpful to share with other intuitives what works when you're
working with a sensors. Start with what's real, and then
step two and then step three. Just go in a
logical sequence and break things down for them. And I
think that can help a lot with the communication challenges.
And then if for our sensor friends who are tuning
in to work with we intuitives, I don't know, Mark,
(21:12):
I would say, give us some latitude for exploring some
creative ideas. Let us start with the big picture first
and then we get into the details. Just be mindful
the fact that we may go off on tangents, and
if you can help us to come back to reality.
(21:33):
I would appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, it's I love how you said this, right, it's
the idea of appreciate us, like appreciate. I think a
lot of times intuit it's feel like they're not appreciated
in a society. Nobody wants to get in deep with
them or wants to think on this abstract level. But
I think from a sensor standpoint, if I were to
be a censor, I think I would allow my intuitives
(21:57):
to brainstorm and provide their ideas because that's exactly the
idea we might need to solve the problem. But I
would keep guard rails on them based on the goal
that we're looking for. Right, Don't let them go off
in a tangent, because like they'll go into another universe. Yeah,
Like if you don't keep them, they say, hey, we're
still going to remain on Earth here. Like I love that.
(22:18):
That's like a Mars idea that's more of a Jupiter idea,
we're looking for more earth solutions, so can we keep
our ideas into Earth solutions? Right? I think that's how
you can keep us kind of guardrailed a little bit.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love the guardrail analogy there. That's that's excellent. Don't
let us go over the guard rail here, excellent, Okay,
And then we move on to the third dichotomy here,
which is how we make decisions. So this is thinking
or feeling T or F. So starting with thinking, people
(22:52):
who prefer thinking look at situations from the outside and
analyze them making objective logical decisions. So, if you are
tuning in and you are a thinking type, honesty and
fairness are very important to you, and this can support
(23:14):
you in a leadership role. We see a lot of
thinking types who aspire to leadership roles. It may help
you for our thinking friends here to become aware of
times when you may come across as uncaring or insensitive
to others. And we hear from a lot of thinkers
(23:34):
that they need to work on developing more empathy and
being a little bit more personal when the situation allows.
And Mark you and I both prefer feeling, which means
that we make decisions based on the impact on other people.
We tend to be personal. We take other people's perceptions
and feelings into account when we're making decisions, and I
(23:58):
think for both of us, we both come across as
warm and carrying people. We place a lot of importance
on maintaining harmony, and typically feelers don't like conflict. We
may try to please everybody, and this can be a
hard lesson to learn, especially if we're working on a team,
(24:21):
because the reality is we can't please everybody. We can't
please everybody who's on the team.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Boy, being a feeler on the team, it's tough, right.
Sometimes I envy the thinkers. I wish I could make
decisions where we can just go with the goal, just
be able to look at the data and just say
and in order to deal with people's feelings, just be like, well,
this is what the data says, and make these decisions.
I wish I could be that, but I can't, Like,
(24:48):
I have to see people win. And I think one
of the things we've always talked about between the two
dototomies here between the thinkers and the feelers, is I
think thinkers are looking for the win. What's the best
way to figure out how we can get there, okay,
and once we get there, that's it. That's the best
decision that can be made. I think for feelers, we
(25:09):
care about the win win, like we want to win,
but how does everybody win from this? Like we can
win and everybody feel good about that, we can reach
our goal and everybody feel good about the goal that
we've reached. And I think thinkers like that too. I
don't think thinkers want to walk around feeling like they essentially,
(25:29):
you know, part of my friends, but screw people like
I don't think anybody wants to have that feeling. I
think thinkers are willing to do it because they feel
like that's the best way to achieve the objective or
the goal that they have set out. But I definitely
feel like if we can convince them that this is
a win win situation for everybody, I think they're willing
to go along with that too as well. But even
(25:51):
from a feeler standpoint, it is good to be reassured,
not necessarily reassured, but just that's reemphasized that here's the
goal once again, and this is the best way to
reach a goal. And sometimes people are going to be
hurt in that process. Not everybody's going to win in
that process. So like to me, like, where's that happy meting?
Like where can we reached the goal? But as many
(26:14):
people feel good about this before we leave the meeting.
That's kind of where I'm at a lot of times
when I work with teams.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I like the win win there.
And it's hard. It's hard being a feeler in the
corporate world, really in any team, because yeah, we are
looking for the best in people. We don't want anybody
to get hurt. And we often get accused of being
(26:42):
too sensitive, and you know, I have to admit I
kind of take offense at that because it's not that
I don't feel like I'm being overly sensitive. I feel
like I'm watching out for people and what's best for people.
And whether you're a thinker or a feeler, you still
have the ability to empathize with others. Empathy may not
(27:05):
come as naturally to some thinkers, but they still have
the ability to empathize. And just like we feelers, we
have the ability to reason logically. And the fundamental difference
here is our values. It's about what do you give
priority to. For thinkers and they're giving priority to truth
(27:26):
and justice for feelers. Feelers give priority to relationships and affirmation.
I think you mentioned that affirmation there, And you know,
when thinkers are saying things like, you know, just why
are you taking it so personal? It's not meant to
be personal, but to a feeler, everything's personal, So it's
(27:47):
easy to see where miscommunications can occur here.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Absolutely. You know, as you were talking, I'm thinking a
little bit about what the core essence is to this
particular diet me And that's how we come about making decisions.
And that's why I appreciate my thinkers because sometimes if
you have too many feelers in a room, like we
never come up to a decision like we're just because
everybody doesn't feel good about it, right, We don't feel right,
(28:13):
So we move on to the next day, and it's
we don't feel like eventually somebody's gonna have to make
a decision. Like sometimes you say we're gonna go to
a restaurant, right, and you got a bunch of feelers
in the car. We're not eating tonight, right because people
don't feel right with that decision that's being made. Occasionally,
you need to have thinkers that are able to say,
this is the decision that we need to make because
(28:34):
that's what's best in general, and I know that everybody's
going to feel good about it. We'll go to your
restaurant next week, or we'll go to your restaurant tomorrow, right,
But it's good to be able to have that because
they want to make a decision, and they want to
make a decision that's best, right, And I think that
as long as feelers feel like not everybody's been wronged
by that decision, we're good with it. So again, it
(28:55):
allows us to work together, and how we work together,
although we're opposite, allows us to get the best results
out there. So I think it's good for us to
understand that there is any good or bad in all
these economies. We just work differently, and it's because of
the difference we're able to come up with the best
solution for everything that's needed right.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Right, And for our thinkers here who are tuning in,
who want to understand a little bit better how to
work with your feelers on the team, I would suggest
try as much as you can to avoid being judgmental,
and then try as best you can to see things
from the feeler's point of view, So just start to
(29:38):
practice the empathy there and believe me, this is a
good strategy. This is going to help tremendously with the teamwork.
And then the other thing I would suggest is if
you're trying to make a decision, try to train yourself
to think about how that decision will affect other people.
(29:59):
You know, what are the results of that decision going
to be and the effect on other people, So that
would be helpful I think for our thinking friends, like
for the feelers. These are just some things I've learned
to do over time. And I still struggle with this mark.
I don't know about you, but I still struggle with
not taking things personally, you know, even in a work
(30:21):
environment where I know it's not meant as personal, or
if I'm getting some type of criticism, it's hard not
to take that to heart. But I think I'm getting better.
I think I'm developing a thicker skin and that was needed.
That was needed on my part. So you know, I'm
trying to exercise my thinking brain more, especially when I'm
(30:41):
at work. And I also have been working on expressing
myself in a succinct manner so I don't always have
to justify my decisions. Right, we're not no, full stop,
we're not doing this. And then also talking about like
taking all the emotion and feeling out of things and
(31:02):
just focusing on the facts and the pros and the
cons and the costs and the benefits. That's also been
helpful for me.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I think those things are really good just even for
the feeler, just for us, right, Like we can be
overtaken by our emotions and processing things and justifying. Sometimes
these thinking strategies are just really good socially emotional strategies
for us, right, Like you said, you don't have to
justify your decisions that you make, Like that's good for
(31:32):
you to understand and to know. Like these thinking strategies
like don't take what everybody says personally, Like one of
the things I always tell you know a lot I
mentioned I'm a school teacher, and a lot of times
I'll tell the kids, like the people in your inner circle,
like that's whose opinions you should be valuing, Like somebody
you don't even know their opinion of you, that should matter.
(31:52):
So sometimes using some of these thinking strategies is really
helpful from us from just that standpoint, because again, without
those guardrails can really go off the reservation, you know,
and we just don't really really want to do that
from that standpoint, because you don't because again, what's the goal.
The goal is to make a decision, and if we
are constantly in our own emotion and our own feelings,
(32:12):
that we're not going to make the right decision in general.
So it's good to have thinkers help us with that.
So again it's we're different, but we help each other
get to where we need to go. And the same
thing for the thinkers. Nobody wants to be that individual
who's by themselves. Like I don't know if you guys
have watched the movie Air right, it was probably a
poor representation. It's about Michael Jordan and Nike, and it's
(32:36):
probably a poor representation. But Michael Jordan's agent, David Falk,
at the end he says, you know, I'm going to
He's talking to somebody represented from Nike, and he said,
when this is all over, I'm going to sell my
business for like ten million dollars and then I'm going
to be at a table by myself, like eating by
myself you talked about. He doesn't have any friends, like
(32:57):
you need to value that, and it was like a
sad situation, Like, look, I love your thinking ability and
I know it helps us make money, but I don't
want you to be by yourself eating by yourself either,
Like what's the win win? Like I want you to win,
but what's the win win? So that way you can
have like maybe two or three people sitting next to you.
You know, my dad used to always say the word.
(33:18):
He used to he was ahead of elder in church,
and he used to do funerals, and he said, sometimes
the worst things in life is going to a funeral
and there's like five people at the funeral. Like, how sad?
That is right, because it's about people, right, and so
like it's important for thinkers to take on some of
these you know, things that the feelers are giving them
(33:41):
because it helps them become more human, which is what
we are market right, So again we help each other
with all of this, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I mean definitely, I see this a lot in
the business world here, this lack of humanity. And what
I wish that more leaders would recognize is how their
decisions and how they go about their work lives here.
It really does affect other people, often in a negative way,
it's like you're ostracizing people from you, And yeah, do
(34:13):
you really want to be that person who ends up
with only five people at their funeral? Because to me,
that just that's awful and it just speaks I don't
want to when I get to be the I sure
hope that doesn't happen to me, because that means I,
you know, didn't leave the impact that I want on
the world. So at least that's the way I'm looking
(34:33):
at it. But yeah, so so moving on though, to
the last dichotomy here J and P judging and perceiving.
So this is about how we structure or organize our
lives or our outer world. So judging types who are
tuning in our judging friends prefer a planned and organized
(34:55):
way of living. Tend to feel more comfortable once decision
have been made. Before they've been made, if things are
up in the air, that can be you know, kind
of nerve racking and make judging types anxious. They like
to check things off their lists. They have lists for everything,
to do lists, and enjoy checking off their to do lists.
(35:17):
They prefer to be task oriented. They want order and control.
If you are a jay or a judging type, you
don't like to be late, always prepared, but you might
not be as aware of new information because you're so
focused on your goal. Very goal oriented people, it might
(35:41):
be considered to be a rule follower, and this can
be very advantageous at work because the world of work,
the business world tends to be very goal oriented. But
one of the things that judging types may need to
work on is being more flexible, being more open to
new information. It doesn't do to be so singularly focused
(36:04):
on achieving this one thing that you forget to be
open to other types of information or other ways of
doing things. So if you are a perceiving type, on
the other hand, you may enjoy more spontaneity in your life.
You may be open to a variety of possibilities. We
(36:26):
are driven to be flexible. We may be helpful on
teams by offering new approaches or leading change initiatives at work,
so we want to stay open to new information. It's
more stressful for us when we have that checkbox marked.
We enjoy the pre checkbox time where we're open to
(36:49):
new possibilities. So we may need to work on sticking
to deadlines and making decisions when necessary. Are some of
the challenges for perceiving types. And you know, once again, Mark,
I think as we are both perceiving types here. So
let me first say that it is amazing that we
(37:11):
are actually getting this podcast recorded and coming no doubt
and published, because let me tell you, this has been
a true effort for two perceiving types.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Absolutely I agree with that, especially we both share the
intuitive too as well, so and so we're always trying
to figure out what else is left. That's the yes.
When you have EDD and a P it's constantly like, well,
we could do this better. I'll probably do this, you know,
let's just wait till next week, right, So that's definitely.
But like I tell you one thing, when it comes
(37:43):
to working on a team, I'm choosing a judger, like
I'm choosing an individual with a judging I need that.
I'm a heavy pe and I need individuals who are
about like getting things done, being organized. Like if you
don't know if you're judging or perceiving, just do you
(38:04):
have an organizer? Like if you have an organizer, you're
a judgmer. Like if you if you if you buy
those planners.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You mean planner kind of thing for you, Like if
you've got.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
If you've got a to do list on the side
of your of your thing, you are a judge. And
I love that because something that Edith and I always
talk about is like we we love to think about
the possibilities and what can happen, but we need a deadline.
Like I always talk about this, like I'm an individual
who I really enjoy I coach football, and I enjoy
that because on Friday, or if you coach college football
(38:38):
on Saturday or the NFL on Sunday, there's a deadline
you're playing. You don't get to postpone that game to
go figure things out, right, And that helps me kind
of get myself in line to get things done and accomplished.
I think what I can do as a perceiver not
to down perceivers, right, but like what I think I
(38:59):
do is just create a level of calm, like in
the environment. I was thinking about this right now, and
I feel like a lot of times like our perceivers
are like San Diego, right, and our judging types are
individuals that are in New York like busy when it
get things done, has to get done now, and people
in San Diego are like, dude, we'll get it done. Man, Like,
(39:19):
just relax, you know, like we'll get everything accomplished. Everybody,
just relax. Everything's gonna be okay. Everybody doesn't need to
be at each other's throw finely, why I feel, I am.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, but that is like super super stressful for a judger.
I mean, I tell you, I bet there's some judgers
who are tuning in right now who are not comfortable
with you even saying that.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Oh gosh, I get it.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, I mean, and how I've learned to work with
them because I don't know about you and Mark, but
I've kind of spent my life feeling like there's something
wrong with me because of this darn perceiving preference, Like
why can't I get myself organized? Why can't I do
things in this conventional way that everybody else It seems
so easy for other people, and I don't know, I
(40:09):
just can't make myself do it. But one thing that's
been really helpful for me is thinking about time and
for judging types, if their time is very important to them,
so if you are late to a meeting, that is
not a good thing. They don't like that and they
take it as you know, you're violating their time. Or
(40:32):
you're not being respectful of their time, and so I've
kind of looked at it that way, and I happen
to work with a lot of judgers, so I've felt
myself over the years kind of moving to a more
judging a way of behaving. And when I have a
meeting at work or when I'm working on a team,
I always try to make sure I'm early because I
(40:56):
my lifetime like running late on things. I don't want
to be disrespectful to anybody else. I don't want people
like waiting on me, thinking that I'm flaky or something
like that. So I just try to be early because
in the business world, a lot of time, if you're
on time, you're late. So that's kind of how I've
(41:17):
tried to manage that. And then you know, a lot
of the time, meetings will run over like it's supposed
to end at noon, and it keeps somebody just has
to keep on talking and talking and talking. And so
if I'm leading a meeting, I really try to be
respectful of other people's time because you don't know if
they had something else going on or whatever. But I
always try to say that, hey, this is you know,
(41:40):
we're going to get out of here by by noon,
this is when the meeting's over. And that's been very helpful.
I've found.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
No, absolutely, I do agree with you with the time.
I think that's what we got to be tongues it
up and like, I just don't unless I ever think
that receivers are just late oriented. I think a lot
of times we end up being late because we're trying
to get as much information as possible. Right, Yeah, we're
trying to get information. We're trying to make sure that
(42:07):
we're doing everything possible. I remember there's a quote by
John Wooden that thing. A lot of times a part
look like I said, I love my Jay's, Like they're
the ones I have for groups that if I'm selecting
a group and there's a team, I got to get
Jays on there because they care about production. But you know,
John Woodn't used to always say never mistake activity for achievement.
(42:28):
Like I totally agree that not because you're doing something
means you're doing something. And I think a lot of
times our perceiving friends are looking at the activity of
our jays and saying like they they're doing a lot
of stuff, but they're not really accomplishing anything right, Like
we want to make sure if we're going to now
jump in the boat and do it, like, we want
to make sure that we're not going to look back
(42:49):
and say, oh, you know what, we made a mistake,
let's redo it. We don't want to do that, Like
we don't want to reduce stuff. We want to make
sure we got all the information possible so that way,
when we do do it at the same rate and
level as our judgers, we're doing it once and that's it.
We're not doing it then we're you know, like looking
at it and then trying to redo it again, Like
we just want to do it once the first time.
(43:10):
So we're trying to get as much information as possible,
which means we end up being late, which means we
end up being chill and let's wait till tomorrow to
kind of figure it out. It makes us seem that way,
but essentially we're just trying to get as much information
to fund that and then when we get a deadline,
then we can say, okay, now it's time to go right,
and now we act just like our judges.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, So I love the deadlines, not timelines, because that's
another thing for judgers might be mistakenly do when working
with a perceiver, especially sensing judgers SJ types, is create
a whole like timeline of you know, from this Wednesday morning,
you're going to be working on X task, and then
(43:52):
you know, from one to two you're going to be
doing this and this and this, and I need to
see your progress all along. No, that is really not
going to be helped for we perceiving types. We need
a deadline, but give us the flexibility for how we're
going to meet that deadline.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
You know, you know, as we and as I know
we're coming towards to the end of this episode, I
just really feel like we need to appreciate each other
and what we all offer to reaching a goal, because
that's the key, like our key is we're all trying
to reach the same goal. We're all trying to get
to a common goal, and by appreciating each other's types
and understanding how we work, we can get to that
(44:31):
goal faster, which is what we all want. We all
want to achieve that goal so we can move to
the next goal and progress throughout. But if we spend
a lot of time just kind of fumbling over our
personality types and being frustrated around our personality types that
we don't ever get to the goal. So appreciating one
another and understanding how each other, understanding how we can
(44:51):
provide for another person within that type so they can
give us what we need to get to our goal.
I think it's something that we all try to understand.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yep, yep, you said it really well there, Mark, It's
so true, and it's making me think, just you know,
when people are when people are more alike, there may
be this unconscious bias to this. If you're working on
teams or even hiring that you know, you're trying to
find somebody who's just like you. And that's a huge
mistake to make, because when there's diversity on teams, that's
(45:23):
going to lead to better decision making and it's going
to improve the bottom line for that team. When people
are thinking alike, there may be more agreement, there may
be more harmony, but the results aren't going to be
quite as good. So we all need each other here.
So really like how you brought that together. And with that,
(45:47):
I am going to say that I appreciate you all
tuning into this episode And just a reminder here that
the Myers Brigs can help teams and businesses gross stronger
by investing in this assessment, and if you're using it
with a certified practitioner, it's a great tool to improve
(46:09):
communication and motivate your employees and reduce conflict. And I
think this is something we can all use more of
in today's world. Thank you all so much for tuning
into this episode and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Thanks for tuning in, Follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
And please reach out to me on LinkedIn and on
my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myers Briggs and MVTI are trademarks at the
Meersbriggs Foundation, viewpoints expressed here are our own
Hi, folks. Have you ever wondered why you don't get
along with a certain colleague at work? Or there's this
person in your life who just drives you crazy because
the way they go about their life just seems so wrong. Today,
we're going to be breaking it down for you the
four dichotomies of the Myers Briggs and how they show
(00:21):
up with teams at work and elsewhere. And maybe you
already know your Myers Briggs type, but you're not sure
how to best use it when working with your teammates
with very different types. We hope this episode will help
you understand your own strengths and weaknesses so that you
can better collaborate with your teammates and thrive in the
(00:42):
workplace and beyond. Welcome to the new Myers Briggs Question Corner.
(01:08):
I'm Edith Richards and I'm Mark Mappy, and we're here
to answer your questions about all things personality and all
things Myers Briggs.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right fit. This is such an important
(01:41):
topic for today teams and how our knowledge of personality
can help us achieve more. It seems like we live
in a more interdependent society. Today and even after COVID,
we understand how important human interaction is. Although many workspaces
are moving towards hybrid work right and working at home,
(02:02):
you can't get away from working on teams and creating
the synergy needed to be productive. And when we discuss
MPTI and work will help me understand how certain meetings
will go. So if I'm in a meeting with a
lot of extroverts in the room, it's always going to
be a lot of ideas being thrown out. It might
be all over the place, right, it might be just
(02:24):
a rack of different ideas that are being thrown out
from different spaces. I have to know that so I
don't get frustrated, and I have to work hard to
process all the information that's out there. My strategy is
to listen, process, try to figure it out, and then
give us a synct summary to where we are and
what we're trying to do. I love the zoom option
(02:46):
because I can just allow the extroverts to just talk,
and then I could just put my stuff in the
chat and be able to get that kind of done right.
So you know, in our interaction is with like your workspaces,
you talked about like how our understanding of the Ford
economies helps us with teams, Like how does understanding how
we work and our personalities? How does that work with teams?
(03:08):
How does that work in your workspaces?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, so, first of all, let me just say that
I think this is a great way of using the
Meyers Briggs mark because you know, just knowing first of all,
knowing yourself and knowing what your own strengths and weaknesses are,
what your preferred means of communication is. I mean, that's
always the first step in working with a successful team, Right.
(03:30):
And then I really like what you said about knowing
the personality types of the other people you're going to
be working with, because then you can anticipate how this
meeting is going to go and maybe where you need
to focus your attention. Right, So really like that strategy
there that you have. I think it might be helpful
(03:51):
for our listeners to just give like a brief review
here of the four dichotomies. And we kind of already
started talking about the I and the E. This seems
to get a lot of press the introversion and extroversion dichotomy,
and really I think it's because that's the most visible dichotomy.
Why are you more of an extrovert or are you
(04:11):
more of an introvert? And what this one is about,
It's all about our energy source. So where do you
get your energy and where do you focus your attention.
So if you are an extroverted type, you're going to
get your energy more from the outer world than you
are from the inner world, and you're going to be
(04:32):
energized by being with people and participating in lots of
different activities. You might be at your best when you're
speaking in front of others or speaking within a group,
and you might enjoy networking, meeting new people, working in teams,
working in groups. Generally, extroverts have a lot of friends
(04:54):
or they know a lot of people, and they may
be seen as a people person. So in teams this
might play out by you might see extroverts talking through
a problem with others because talking things out helps them
to understand it better. And I know, just before we
(05:14):
started recording this episode, we were having a little conversation
here because that's something I do as an extrovert. I
tend to kind of talk things out. I might be
reading things and you know, I'm talking as I'm as
I'm reading, and I know other introverted types have remarked
about this before and wondering like, why is Edith talking
(05:35):
to herself here? I don't really understand or she is
she talking to me? So, but it's just it's my
way of processing information and somehow just talking about it
it makes it real for me. And then also extroverts,
because our attention is focused outward, we tend to take action,
(05:58):
and sometimes we may take action before we've had adequate
time to think it through. And I think extroverts can
get frustrated if they have to work alone too long,
so they really do need. We do need this interaction
with other people, working in teams, working with others, and
(06:20):
therefore we may appreciate a work environment that's a little
more fast paced and where there's more multitasking. So that's
kind of what it's like for generally speaking, for extroverts
in the world of work. Right, So, Mark, you're more
of an introvert, so you are going to get your
(06:41):
energy more from your inner world than your outer world,
and you're going to feel comfortable being alone more than
probably I would doing things on your own, or prefer
working in small groups rather than large groups, you tend
to be reflective and focus your attention inward. On the
(07:02):
other hand, a lot of introverts may wait too long
to take action because you like to carefully consider your
actions before you begin something, before you begin a project,
and may tend to focus on one task at a
time rather than multitasking. And a lot of introverts prefer
written communication working on projects on their own small groups.
(07:29):
Does it sound more like you, Mark, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
It may sounds exactly like me. And and a lot
of times when you were explaining the extroverts, I can
see my frustrations. I can understand that. And that's why
we talked about knowledge of types and knowledge of temperaments, right,
And it really really allows you to get a gauge
of knowing, Okay, this is what I'm getting into. Until
you talked about our interaction that we had before we
(07:54):
came on here, and you automatically started to talk to
your thoughts, well, knowing that you're an extra and I'm
an introvert, I totally ignored that. So I'm able to
develop these strategies to diminish the amount of frustration that
you're going to have with teams. And that's kind of
the I think everybody wants to get to the same point. Like,
if your group comes together and they don't agree on
(08:17):
like where they're going, then nothing's that we're going to
get accomplished. But the question is when we all agree
that we're going to go this way. Understanding personality types
allows us to move along that trajectory faster because we're
not frustrated with each other because we know what we're getting.
So we know, you know, when you know that you
have eyes in your group, and if like you're an
(08:38):
extrovert and you have five eyes in your group, like,
what's your strategy of dealing with that?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, that's that's the question, right, So if we are
an extroverted type, like how can extroverts best work with introverts?
So my strategy is to make sure to give the
introverts ample time to think things out and think through
(09:05):
their ideas or their plans before sharing. Because a lot
of you know, there's that phrase still waters run deep, right,
There's a lot of information there, and I think a
lot of introverts can get, especially in a group meeting,
get overwhelmed by all these extroverts buying for attention. So
making sure that there's adequate time for them to process thoroughly.
(09:26):
And then there may be some introverts who don't want
to share during a team meeting for whatever reason. So
if I'm leading a team and I see somebody's you know, quiet,
I want to make sure I'm giving them space to
chime in and just say, hey, you know, I haven't
heard from you during this meeting. Is do you have
anything you want to share? And then if they don't,
(09:48):
also checking with them after the meeting. I think that's
helpful too. Maybe you know, for whatever reason they don't
want to speak up in the meeting, then they may
feel more comfortable talking to you one one after the meeting.
So that's something I think a lot of extroverts can do.
Just you know, make sure that you're including them, including
all the introverts in the conversations. And then for the introverts,
(10:13):
I mean, some things that I know that you do
mark when you're working with extroverts is you allow ample
time for them to talk it out and ample time
to process, because that's kind of what we need to
do to get things moving.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, and what I love about this again, we're trying
to see how are different types complete right, and so
the things that we are weak in. So, for instance,
as an introvert, we're thinking very deeply, so we don't
get the breath of information. So in our brainstorming technique,
we might not get as far because we're not throwing
(10:49):
ideas out there, because we like to process what's already
there and process it deeply, versus extroverts are providing the
breath of things like here's my thought, here's what I'm
doing here, there's this. And if I'm an introvert and
I don't understand that, and I don't understand how this
temperaments work, that can be very frustrating because I'm trying
to process things while extroverts are just trying to throw
(11:10):
information out. As an introvert that understands MBTI, now what
I do is I go, okay, that's perfect. That's a
brainstorming session that we're going to have during the situation.
Some might stick, some might not stick, right, But the
whole idea is we're getting as many great ideas as possible,
and now I can say, oh, actually, you know what,
what that eighteenth person said was actually something that we
(11:32):
can definitely use, and I can process that information and
then try to help you solve the issue, get to
where we need to go, provide perspectives, those sort of
things that work within my strengths. And that's one thing
we've always talked about, is understanding what your strengths are,
use that and and where you're going. And one of
the things I know that introverts kind of like. And
(11:53):
I could be incorrect with this in it, but it's meetings.
How do extroverts and introverts what's their perceptions of meeting.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I think that can be a commonality between I's and ease.
I'm not a big fan of meetings myself either personally.
I think that has a lot more to do with
things outside of what the Myers Briggs measures than the
Ie dichotomy. But you know, with that said, there may
be some other extroverts who who appreciate meetings, who appreciate
(12:23):
the chance to come together again for a number of
different reasons, whether it's you know, just to share some
information and updates, or for more face to face communication.
I mean, definitely, I would say extroverts need more of
that face to face communication than introverted types do.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I would agree with that. Here's what I'll say, and
I could be getting wrong with this, and I think
you mentioned this and if it could be a lot
of things that fall outside of personality. Yeah, I think
introverts don't mind meetings, Like we don't mind getting together
processing things and figuring things out and getting really really
deep into stuff. Extroverts, to me hate meetings. I can't
(13:04):
stand it unless they have unless the meetings about themselves, right,
and they can talk about themselves. But how many times
have I heard extroverts when it's not involving them, that
will say, like, all this stuff could have been done
in an email, like I didn't need Like when when
somebody's talking to them and like trying to give them
an introduction to stuff. I think when they're allowed to
brainstorm and give their ideas on something that's meaningful, I
(13:26):
think extroverts do like meetings. But when it becomes a
situation where they're not going to be able to voice
their thoughts and their opinions, I think that's when they
begin to get into a level of like we could
have shared all this stuff on an email, you know,
like I could have been doing a lot of other
things besides just meeting here and doing that. So sometimes
that's my experience I've seen with some extroverts in general.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, that's that's interesting. You know what I think it
is for me as you were talking about this, what
I was thinking, it's that very word meeting that I
don't know, maybe it gives me PTSD or something. If
you change the word meeting to get together or a
talk or something, that's going to change my whole perception
(14:07):
of it. So so there's that piece of it too.
But you know, bottom line, even within the dichotomies of
E and I, you know, there's varying levels of very
nuances that are just related to us as people too,
And it just shows that, you know, not every introverted
type is the same, not every extroverted type is the
(14:28):
same with our own flavors, right.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Man, That's what I love about. Like, but the NbTi,
you're giving yourselves general understanding of how things work, right,
But at the end of the day, we're all unique individuals,
Like everybody's not the same. But it gives us some
understanding of what environments really work for us and how
we can use those environments to fit us and get
to our ultimate goals, no matter what that is. In general.
(14:53):
So that's what I really really care and like about
the MBTI gives us general clues, but it doesn't mean
that we're type casting anybody to any certain type of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah this is who you are for sure. Yeah, we
don't want to do that. But then you know, also
there's three other dichotomies here, and I know the E
and the I. It gets a lot of airtime just
because of what it is. But this second dichotomy is
also I think super important because it relates to how
communication begins, how we communicate, and this is the sn
(15:26):
sensing intuition, and this is about how we absorb information.
So for our listeners who are tuning in, who prefer sensing,
so you may pay more attention to input from your
five senses. You probably have a preference for focusing on
what is current and real, like facts and important details.
(15:51):
You're realistic, you come up with practical solutions to problems.
On the other hand, you may not see future possibilities
easily because you're so focused on the past or present facts.
Right for our intuitive friends, if you prefer intuition, you
(16:11):
may prefer information you get through associations, and you pay
attention to meaning and patterns. You look at the big
picture before the facts. Intuitives are the folks who value
innovation and creativity, probably looking to the future and possibilities
(16:35):
more than to the past. And I'm going to say
we because Mark, you and I are both intuitives here,
you may sometimes under emphasize making these possibilities of reality
because we're so focused on what could be. What's real is,
you know, at least for a lot of intuitives, I
think boring by comparison, at least it is for me,
(16:58):
and personally, I think that this dyke ecotomy can be
especially challenging in teams because this is where as I
mentioned before, communication really starts happening. We can have a
sensor and an intuitive each looking at an object and
describing it very differently because they're each paying attention to
(17:18):
very different things. And Mark you and I being intuitive
types ourselves, I think we're going to come into a
teamwork setting with a lot of abstract focus. We're not
going to consciously define the steps that are needed to
get from point A to point B, because we naturally
leap over all these steps and reach our conclusion in
(17:40):
a kind of non straightforward way using our gut or
our sixth sense. Or our intuition here, And this can
be confusing for someone who's a sensing type because sensors
need these details. They want to see a practical application
of the information that we can of them. They want
(18:00):
to see the logical sequence. They want to follow things
in a step by step fashion. So we may want
some type of deeper meaning. Being intuitives, we want to
extract meaning from things where there may not be any
meaning to extract. And when we have to remember this,
when sensing types are communicating with us, they stick to
(18:21):
the facts. They present the facts. This is what it is.
You know, what you see is what you get. There
is often no hidden meanings there for what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I think you make a really good point about
the communication aspect and how we communicate a lot of
times I see this when you're dealing with sensors and
intuitives is how they tell stories, right, Like, one story
from a sensory will be very detail oriented or we
started here, we did this, we did that, versus an
into it might have different ideas and different facts and
(18:53):
might talk about how that story might fit into today's
world and that sort of things, and so we're very
abstract them that as far as an intuitive and so
how we communicate can be very very difficult because we're
looking at things in different perspectives and that can be
very challenging in a meeting. But again going back understanding,
(19:13):
that will be important. If I understand that I have
a sensor in a meeting, I need to be highly detailed,
Like they want to know this is going to work.
Like they're not against innovation, right, they're not against moving
outside of the box, but you need to prove to
them that that sort of stuff would work, right, like,
this is how I've had experience with this, this is
how it was proved in this side of things, Like
(19:36):
you know, this is the best practice here, And I
think they're willing to go along with as long as
you show them proof that these things can work, because
they're kind of in the here and the now. They're
into what things have been proven before, just doing things
just the normal way. And so as long as I
understand that's what they need, I can provide that for them.
But if I don't know that's what they need, I
(19:57):
can be frustrated by their lack their willingness to try
things and to be different.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Right, Yeah, yeah, I really like what you said there
about them needing proof because they go by they go
by experience, Like experience is the proof that they need.
So there's a saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And I think that that very much applies to a sensor.
They're not going to be looking for some kind of
new approach naturally and breaking it down. I think that's
(20:26):
very helpful for the sensors. And this is where I
see a lot of intuitive types really missing the mark.
When they're working with a sensor. You have to slow
down and break it down step by step. So you
go from it's almost like you're solving like an algebra
problem or something. Well there I go with my intuitive
kind of metaphor here in pattern. But I think it's
(20:49):
helpful to share with other intuitives what works when you're
working with a sensors. Start with what's real, and then
step two and then step three. Just go in a
logical sequence and break things down for them. And I
think that can help a lot with the communication challenges.
And then if for our sensor friends who are tuning
in to work with we intuitives, I don't know, Mark,
(21:12):
I would say, give us some latitude for exploring some
creative ideas. Let us start with the big picture first
and then we get into the details. Just be mindful
the fact that we may go off on tangents, and
if you can help us to come back to reality.
(21:33):
I would appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, it's I love how you said this, right, it's
the idea of appreciate us, like appreciate. I think a
lot of times intuit it's feel like they're not appreciated
in a society. Nobody wants to get in deep with
them or wants to think on this abstract level. But
I think from a sensor standpoint, if I were to
be a censor, I think I would allow my intuitives
(21:57):
to brainstorm and provide their ideas because that's exactly the
idea we might need to solve the problem. But I
would keep guard rails on them based on the goal
that we're looking for. Right, Don't let them go off
in a tangent, because like they'll go into another universe. Yeah,
Like if you don't keep them, they say, hey, we're
still going to remain on Earth here. Like I love that.
(22:18):
That's like a Mars idea that's more of a Jupiter idea,
we're looking for more earth solutions, so can we keep
our ideas into Earth solutions? Right? I think that's how
you can keep us kind of guardrailed a little bit.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I love the guardrail analogy there. That's that's excellent. Don't
let us go over the guard rail here, excellent, Okay,
And then we move on to the third dichotomy here,
which is how we make decisions. So this is thinking
or feeling T or F. So starting with thinking, people
(22:52):
who prefer thinking look at situations from the outside and
analyze them making objective logical decisions. So, if you are
tuning in and you are a thinking type, honesty and
fairness are very important to you, and this can support
(23:14):
you in a leadership role. We see a lot of
thinking types who aspire to leadership roles. It may help
you for our thinking friends here to become aware of
times when you may come across as uncaring or insensitive
to others. And we hear from a lot of thinkers
(23:34):
that they need to work on developing more empathy and
being a little bit more personal when the situation allows.
And Mark you and I both prefer feeling, which means
that we make decisions based on the impact on other people.
We tend to be personal. We take other people's perceptions
and feelings into account when we're making decisions, and I
(23:58):
think for both of us, we both come across as
warm and carrying people. We place a lot of importance
on maintaining harmony, and typically feelers don't like conflict. We
may try to please everybody, and this can be a
hard lesson to learn, especially if we're working on a team,
(24:21):
because the reality is we can't please everybody. We can't
please everybody who's on the team.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Boy, being a feeler on the team, it's tough, right.
Sometimes I envy the thinkers. I wish I could make
decisions where we can just go with the goal, just
be able to look at the data and just say
and in order to deal with people's feelings, just be like, well,
this is what the data says, and make these decisions.
I wish I could be that, but I can't, Like,
(24:48):
I have to see people win. And I think one
of the things we've always talked about between the two
dototomies here between the thinkers and the feelers, is I
think thinkers are looking for the win. What's the best
way to figure out how we can get there, okay,
and once we get there, that's it. That's the best
decision that can be made. I think for feelers, we
(25:09):
care about the win win, like we want to win,
but how does everybody win from this? Like we can
win and everybody feel good about that, we can reach
our goal and everybody feel good about the goal that
we've reached. And I think thinkers like that too. I
don't think thinkers want to walk around feeling like they essentially,
(25:29):
you know, part of my friends, but screw people like
I don't think anybody wants to have that feeling. I
think thinkers are willing to do it because they feel
like that's the best way to achieve the objective or
the goal that they have set out. But I definitely
feel like if we can convince them that this is
a win win situation for everybody, I think they're willing
to go along with that too as well. But even
(25:51):
from a feeler standpoint, it is good to be reassured,
not necessarily reassured, but just that's reemphasized that here's the
goal once again, and this is the best way to
reach a goal. And sometimes people are going to be
hurt in that process. Not everybody's going to win in
that process. So like to me, like, where's that happy meting?
Like where can we reached the goal? But as many
(26:14):
people feel good about this before we leave the meeting.
That's kind of where I'm at a lot of times
when I work with teams.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I like the win win there.
And it's hard. It's hard being a feeler in the
corporate world, really in any team, because yeah, we are
looking for the best in people. We don't want anybody
to get hurt. And we often get accused of being
(26:42):
too sensitive, and you know, I have to admit I
kind of take offense at that because it's not that
I don't feel like I'm being overly sensitive. I feel
like I'm watching out for people and what's best for people.
And whether you're a thinker or a feeler, you still
have the ability to empathize with others. Empathy may not
(27:05):
come as naturally to some thinkers, but they still have
the ability to empathize. And just like we feelers, we
have the ability to reason logically. And the fundamental difference
here is our values. It's about what do you give
priority to. For thinkers and they're giving priority to truth
(27:26):
and justice for feelers. Feelers give priority to relationships and affirmation.
I think you mentioned that affirmation there, And you know,
when thinkers are saying things like, you know, just why
are you taking it so personal? It's not meant to
be personal, but to a feeler, everything's personal, So it's
(27:47):
easy to see where miscommunications can occur here.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Absolutely. You know, as you were talking, I'm thinking a
little bit about what the core essence is to this
particular diet me And that's how we come about making decisions.
And that's why I appreciate my thinkers because sometimes if
you have too many feelers in a room, like we
never come up to a decision like we're just because
everybody doesn't feel good about it, right, We don't feel right,
(28:13):
So we move on to the next day, and it's
we don't feel like eventually somebody's gonna have to make
a decision. Like sometimes you say we're gonna go to
a restaurant, right, and you got a bunch of feelers
in the car. We're not eating tonight, right because people
don't feel right with that decision that's being made. Occasionally,
you need to have thinkers that are able to say,
this is the decision that we need to make because
(28:34):
that's what's best in general, and I know that everybody's
going to feel good about it. We'll go to your
restaurant next week, or we'll go to your restaurant tomorrow, right,
But it's good to be able to have that because
they want to make a decision, and they want to
make a decision that's best, right, And I think that
as long as feelers feel like not everybody's been wronged
by that decision, we're good with it. So again, it
(28:55):
allows us to work together, and how we work together,
although we're opposite, allows us to get the best results
out there. So I think it's good for us to
understand that there is any good or bad in all
these economies. We just work differently, and it's because of
the difference we're able to come up with the best
solution for everything that's needed right.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Right, And for our thinkers here who are tuning in,
who want to understand a little bit better how to
work with your feelers on the team, I would suggest
try as much as you can to avoid being judgmental,
and then try as best you can to see things
from the feeler's point of view, So just start to
(29:38):
practice the empathy there and believe me, this is a
good strategy. This is going to help tremendously with the teamwork.
And then the other thing I would suggest is if
you're trying to make a decision, try to train yourself
to think about how that decision will affect other people.
(29:59):
You know, what are the results of that decision going
to be and the effect on other people, So that
would be helpful I think for our thinking friends, like
for the feelers. These are just some things I've learned
to do over time. And I still struggle with this mark.
I don't know about you, but I still struggle with
not taking things personally, you know, even in a work
(30:21):
environment where I know it's not meant as personal, or
if I'm getting some type of criticism, it's hard not
to take that to heart. But I think I'm getting better.
I think I'm developing a thicker skin and that was needed.
That was needed on my part. So you know, I'm
trying to exercise my thinking brain more, especially when I'm
(30:41):
at work. And I also have been working on expressing
myself in a succinct manner so I don't always have
to justify my decisions. Right, we're not no, full stop,
we're not doing this. And then also talking about like
taking all the emotion and feeling out of things and
(31:02):
just focusing on the facts and the pros and the
cons and the costs and the benefits. That's also been
helpful for me.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
I think those things are really good just even for
the feeler, just for us, right, Like we can be
overtaken by our emotions and processing things and justifying. Sometimes
these thinking strategies are just really good socially emotional strategies
for us, right, Like you said, you don't have to
justify your decisions that you make, Like that's good for
(31:32):
you to understand and to know. Like these thinking strategies
like don't take what everybody says personally, Like one of
the things I always tell you know a lot I
mentioned I'm a school teacher, and a lot of times
I'll tell the kids, like the people in your inner circle,
like that's whose opinions you should be valuing, Like somebody
you don't even know their opinion of you, that should matter.
(31:52):
So sometimes using some of these thinking strategies is really
helpful from us from just that standpoint, because again, without
those guardrails can really go off the reservation, you know,
and we just don't really really want to do that
from that standpoint, because you don't because again, what's the goal.
The goal is to make a decision, and if we
are constantly in our own emotion and our own feelings,
(32:12):
that we're not going to make the right decision in general.
So it's good to have thinkers help us with that.
So again it's we're different, but we help each other
get to where we need to go. And the same
thing for the thinkers. Nobody wants to be that individual
who's by themselves. Like I don't know if you guys
have watched the movie Air right, it was probably a
poor representation. It's about Michael Jordan and Nike, and it's
(32:36):
probably a poor representation. But Michael Jordan's agent, David Falk,
at the end he says, you know, I'm going to
He's talking to somebody represented from Nike, and he said,
when this is all over, I'm going to sell my
business for like ten million dollars and then I'm going
to be at a table by myself, like eating by
myself you talked about. He doesn't have any friends, like
(32:57):
you need to value that, and it was like a
sad situation, Like, look, I love your thinking ability and
I know it helps us make money, but I don't
want you to be by yourself eating by yourself either,
Like what's the win win? Like I want you to win,
but what's the win win? So that way you can
have like maybe two or three people sitting next to you.
You know, my dad used to always say the word.
(33:18):
He used to he was ahead of elder in church,
and he used to do funerals, and he said, sometimes
the worst things in life is going to a funeral
and there's like five people at the funeral. Like, how sad?
That is right, because it's about people, right, and so
like it's important for thinkers to take on some of
these you know, things that the feelers are giving them
(33:41):
because it helps them become more human, which is what
we are market right, So again we help each other
with all of this, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I mean definitely, I see this a lot in
the business world here, this lack of humanity. And what
I wish that more leaders would recognize is how their
decisions and how they go about their work lives here.
It really does affect other people, often in a negative way,
it's like you're ostracizing people from you, And yeah, do
(34:13):
you really want to be that person who ends up
with only five people at their funeral? Because to me,
that just that's awful and it just speaks I don't
want to when I get to be the I sure
hope that doesn't happen to me, because that means I,
you know, didn't leave the impact that I want on
the world. So at least that's the way I'm looking
(34:33):
at it. But yeah, so so moving on though, to
the last dichotomy here J and P judging and perceiving.
So this is about how we structure or organize our
lives or our outer world. So judging types who are
tuning in our judging friends prefer a planned and organized
(34:55):
way of living. Tend to feel more comfortable once decision
have been made. Before they've been made, if things are
up in the air, that can be you know, kind
of nerve racking and make judging types anxious. They like
to check things off their lists. They have lists for everything,
to do lists, and enjoy checking off their to do lists.
(35:17):
They prefer to be task oriented. They want order and control.
If you are a jay or a judging type, you
don't like to be late, always prepared, but you might
not be as aware of new information because you're so
focused on your goal. Very goal oriented people, it might
(35:41):
be considered to be a rule follower, and this can
be very advantageous at work because the world of work,
the business world tends to be very goal oriented. But
one of the things that judging types may need to
work on is being more flexible, being more open to
new information. It doesn't do to be so singularly focused
(36:04):
on achieving this one thing that you forget to be
open to other types of information or other ways of
doing things. So if you are a perceiving type, on
the other hand, you may enjoy more spontaneity in your life.
You may be open to a variety of possibilities. We
(36:26):
are driven to be flexible. We may be helpful on
teams by offering new approaches or leading change initiatives at work,
so we want to stay open to new information. It's
more stressful for us when we have that checkbox marked.
We enjoy the pre checkbox time where we're open to
(36:49):
new possibilities. So we may need to work on sticking
to deadlines and making decisions when necessary. Are some of
the challenges for perceiving types. And you know, once again, Mark,
I think as we are both perceiving types here. So
let me first say that it is amazing that we
(37:11):
are actually getting this podcast recorded and coming no doubt
and published, because let me tell you, this has been
a true effort for two perceiving types.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Absolutely I agree with that, especially we both share the
intuitive too as well, so and so we're always trying
to figure out what else is left. That's the yes.
When you have EDD and a P it's constantly like, well,
we could do this better. I'll probably do this, you know,
let's just wait till next week, right, So that's definitely.
But like I tell you one thing, when it comes
(37:43):
to working on a team, I'm choosing a judger, like
I'm choosing an individual with a judging I need that.
I'm a heavy pe and I need individuals who are
about like getting things done, being organized. Like if you
don't know if you're judging or perceiving, just do you
(38:04):
have an organizer? Like if you have an organizer, you're
a judgmer. Like if you if you if you buy
those planners.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
You mean planner kind of thing for you, Like if
you've got.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
If you've got a to do list on the side
of your of your thing, you are a judge. And
I love that because something that Edith and I always
talk about is like we we love to think about
the possibilities and what can happen, but we need a deadline.
Like I always talk about this, like I'm an individual
who I really enjoy I coach football, and I enjoy
that because on Friday, or if you coach college football
(38:38):
on Saturday or the NFL on Sunday, there's a deadline
you're playing. You don't get to postpone that game to
go figure things out, right, And that helps me kind
of get myself in line to get things done and accomplished.
I think what I can do as a perceiver not
to down perceivers, right, but like what I think I
(38:59):
do is just create a level of calm, like in
the environment. I was thinking about this right now, and
I feel like a lot of times like our perceivers
are like San Diego, right, and our judging types are
individuals that are in New York like busy when it
get things done, has to get done now, and people
in San Diego are like, dude, we'll get it done. Man, Like,
(39:19):
just relax, you know, like we'll get everything accomplished. Everybody,
just relax. Everything's gonna be okay. Everybody doesn't need to
be at each other's throw finely, why I feel, I am.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, but that is like super super stressful for a judger.
I mean, I tell you, I bet there's some judgers
who are tuning in right now who are not comfortable
with you even saying that.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Oh gosh, I get it.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, I mean, and how I've learned to work with
them because I don't know about you and Mark, but
I've kind of spent my life feeling like there's something
wrong with me because of this darn perceiving preference, Like
why can't I get myself organized? Why can't I do
things in this conventional way that everybody else It seems
so easy for other people, and I don't know, I
(40:09):
just can't make myself do it. But one thing that's
been really helpful for me is thinking about time and
for judging types, if their time is very important to them,
so if you are late to a meeting, that is
not a good thing. They don't like that and they
take it as you know, you're violating their time. Or
(40:32):
you're not being respectful of their time, and so I've
kind of looked at it that way, and I happen
to work with a lot of judgers, so I've felt
myself over the years kind of moving to a more
judging a way of behaving. And when I have a
meeting at work or when I'm working on a team,
I always try to make sure I'm early because I
(40:56):
my lifetime like running late on things. I don't want
to be disrespectful to anybody else. I don't want people
like waiting on me, thinking that I'm flaky or something
like that. So I just try to be early because
in the business world, a lot of time, if you're
on time, you're late. So that's kind of how I've
(41:17):
tried to manage that. And then you know, a lot
of the time, meetings will run over like it's supposed
to end at noon, and it keeps somebody just has
to keep on talking and talking and talking. And so
if I'm leading a meeting, I really try to be
respectful of other people's time because you don't know if
they had something else going on or whatever. But I
always try to say that, hey, this is you know,
(41:40):
we're going to get out of here by by noon,
this is when the meeting's over. And that's been very helpful.
I've found.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
No, absolutely, I do agree with you with the time.
I think that's what we got to be tongues it
up and like, I just don't unless I ever think
that receivers are just late oriented. I think a lot
of times we end up being late because we're trying
to get as much information as possible. Right, Yeah, we're
trying to get information. We're trying to make sure that
(42:07):
we're doing everything possible. I remember there's a quote by
John Wooden that thing. A lot of times a part
look like I said, I love my Jay's, Like they're
the ones I have for groups that if I'm selecting
a group and there's a team, I got to get
Jays on there because they care about production. But you know,
John Woodn't used to always say never mistake activity for achievement.
(42:28):
Like I totally agree that not because you're doing something
means you're doing something. And I think a lot of
times our perceiving friends are looking at the activity of
our jays and saying like they they're doing a lot
of stuff, but they're not really accomplishing anything right, Like
we want to make sure if we're going to now
jump in the boat and do it, like, we want
to make sure that we're not going to look back
(42:49):
and say, oh, you know what, we made a mistake,
let's redo it. We don't want to do that, Like
we don't want to reduce stuff. We want to make
sure we got all the information possible so that way,
when we do do it at the same rate and
level as our judgers, we're doing it once and that's it.
We're not doing it then we're you know, like looking
at it and then trying to redo it again, Like
we just want to do it once the first time.
(43:10):
So we're trying to get as much information as possible,
which means we end up being late, which means we
end up being chill and let's wait till tomorrow to
kind of figure it out. It makes us seem that way,
but essentially we're just trying to get as much information
to fund that and then when we get a deadline,
then we can say, okay, now it's time to go right,
and now we act just like our judges.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, So I love the deadlines, not timelines, because that's
another thing for judgers might be mistakenly do when working
with a perceiver, especially sensing judgers SJ types, is create
a whole like timeline of you know, from this Wednesday morning,
you're going to be working on X task, and then
(43:52):
you know, from one to two you're going to be
doing this and this and this, and I need to
see your progress all along. No, that is really not
going to be helped for we perceiving types. We need
a deadline, but give us the flexibility for how we're
going to meet that deadline.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
You know, you know, as we and as I know
we're coming towards to the end of this episode, I
just really feel like we need to appreciate each other
and what we all offer to reaching a goal, because
that's the key, like our key is we're all trying
to reach the same goal. We're all trying to get
to a common goal, and by appreciating each other's types
and understanding how we work, we can get to that
(44:31):
goal faster, which is what we all want. We all
want to achieve that goal so we can move to
the next goal and progress throughout. But if we spend
a lot of time just kind of fumbling over our
personality types and being frustrated around our personality types that
we don't ever get to the goal. So appreciating one
another and understanding how each other, understanding how we can
(44:51):
provide for another person within that type so they can
give us what we need to get to our goal.
I think it's something that we all try to understand.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yep, yep, you said it really well there, Mark, It's
so true, and it's making me think, just you know,
when people are when people are more alike, there may
be this unconscious bias to this. If you're working on
teams or even hiring that you know, you're trying to
find somebody who's just like you. And that's a huge
mistake to make, because when there's diversity on teams, that's
(45:23):
going to lead to better decision making and it's going
to improve the bottom line for that team. When people
are thinking alike, there may be more agreement, there may
be more harmony, but the results aren't going to be
quite as good. So we all need each other here.
So really like how you brought that together. And with that,
(45:47):
I am going to say that I appreciate you all
tuning into this episode And just a reminder here that
the Myers Brigs can help teams and businesses gross stronger
by investing in this assessment, and if you're using it
with a certified practitioner, it's a great tool to improve
(46:09):
communication and motivate your employees and reduce conflict. And I
think this is something we can all use more of
in today's world. Thank you all so much for tuning
into this episode and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Thanks for tuning in, Follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
And please reach out to me on LinkedIn and on
my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myers Briggs and MVTI are trademarks at the
Meersbriggs Foundation, viewpoints expressed here are our own
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