October 24, 2023 • 51 mins
Edythe (ENFP) and Marc (INFP) share how their personalities have influenced their career choices. They share tips that both young people and mid-career adults can use when starting or changing careers.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody. Edith Richards here. It is mid July twenty
twenty three as we are recording this episode of the
New Myers Briggs Question Corner. I am back after over
a year. Really appreciate all of you who have stuck
with me all these years. Thank you so much. I
am back with a new co host and we've been
(00:21):
doing some really exciting things behind the scenes to bring
you all some great content. So sit back. This is
our inaugural episode and I think you're going to like it. Hello, folks,
(00:51):
and welcome to the New Myers Briggs Question Corner. I
am Edith.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Richards and I'm Mark Matthey.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And we are very pleased to be here. It has
been a while. We have been on hiatus for over
a year now. I have been hosting this podcast since
twenty sixteen with David Terris, who was my Scottish producer
and friend, and unfortunately he couldn't continue due to some
(01:19):
health reasons. But I got to know Mark in the meantime,
and Mark, you are just so bubbly and full of energy,
you have a great radio voice, and you're just an
all around nice guy. So I asked if you'd be
interested in co hosting with me, and fortunately you agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I'm really excited to be co hosting with you, Edith.
Is this such a source of knowledge and expertise, and
I'm thrilled to learn from her every time I interact
with her. Just a little bit about myself. I'm a
career teacher and I'm a football coach. I've been teaching
for eighteen years and I've been coaching for twenty. I'm
living my best life as we're recording this during the summer,
(02:02):
so I'm not going into school every day, so I'm
really really relaxed, excited, rejuvenated. So I'm really really excited.
I'm looking forward to this conversation we're going to have
about Myers Briggs. Although I'm not a Myers Briggs expert,
my novice knowledge with MBTI has given me a lot
of self awareness and has helped me in my life tremendously.
(02:24):
So thrilled to join you Edith on the Meyers Bregak
Question Corner.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, thank you, Mark, I'm so glad you're here. We
are both fans of the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator, or MBTI.
I myself have been using it in my work as
a career counselor for about twenty years now, and I
use it a lot in my work with human resources
and leadership development too. So I am a master practitioner,
(02:51):
which is really just a fancy way of saying that
I know quite a bit about personality in terms of
theory and application. So, folks, if you're tuning in and
you have a question about personality or the MBTI, please
get in touch. We'd love to answer your question on air.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I think one of the most important and most valuable
things you can have in this world is knowledge of
yourself and knowledge of others. I truly think our ultimate
goal in life is to live a life of full
authenticity and the use of our true selves to make
a difference in this world. That's why I think this
podcast can be so valuable, because we're discussing things that
(03:34):
will lead to a sense of wholeness as a Master practitioner.
I wonder if you could explain to our listeners the
value of this authenticity and finding who you are through MBTI.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, authenticity is the word there. Indeed, you know, Mark,
I grew up sort of like a fish out of water.
I guess I was different from everybody else in my family,
and I was always getting or I guess I felt
like I was getting pointed at for these differences, like oh, Edith,
you're so messy, or why didn't you remember to do
(04:09):
whatever task it was I was supposed to do, or
why can't you just stick to this one activity and
learn to master it, or you need to do whatever
this is better. So there was a lot of that
in my childhood, or at least that's how I felt.
I thought that something was wrong with me. And part
of this is just maturity and you know, my own
(04:32):
sense of independence and getting on with life and having
certain life experiences. But I'll tell you, when I found
out about the Meyers Briggs in my late twenties, it
was incredibly validating. I just remember reading the description for
my type and I just I couldn't believe it. I
felt like, this is what I've been missing my whole life.
(04:52):
So now I know why I do the things I do,
why I didn't always get along with certain people, or
why I felt like the black sheep in my family.
It always it helped me to approach things differently with
my family members and empathize with them in a way
that I hadn't before, and now with the knowledge and
(05:14):
experience that I have, I'm trying to bring that to
other people and help them use the Meyers Griggs as
a tool to help them understand themselves better and to
become more aware of the interactions and relationships they have
with other people. And that can help us to make
better decisions for ourselves, to communicate with people who are
(05:37):
like us, and also appreciate people who are different from us.
And this isn't a tool to categorize or pigeonhole people,
but I do believe when it's used correctly, it can
truly empower people.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Wow, that is great, like what you just mentioned about
the impact of self knowledge, but also the understanding of
others and how that can really help us make certain
decisions in life and kind of help us stare our
life in a way that can lead to a level
of success. And most importantly understanding. I think in this
(06:16):
as we're moving into this world with a lot of
the device inness that's going on, understanding is so important.
And one of the tenants I live by and I've
always lived by, is know thyself and put thyself in
the right environment for oneself right. So and if I
don't know if you've ever watched the cartoon GI Joe
back in the day, had did you ever watch that cartoon?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yes, I sure did. G I Joe.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
G I Joe was was great, right, And like the
majority of cartoons and those sorts of things, there was
always like they always had the cartoon for about twenty
five minutes, and you knew the last five minutes there
was a lesson, like there was a moral lesson that
was going to be put on there. So I remember
the end of G I Joe. They would always say,
you know, they would have some sort of life lesson
(07:01):
and then the kids would say, and knowing is half
the battle. So I remember there was a like, let's
they say, there's this episode that they're having there and
the kids are playing and they're in a struggle or
something like that that's going on, and somebody commits a foul, right,
or they start arguing and those things start to occur
and there's some sort of confrontation. G I Joe would
(07:22):
come up and say, hey, guys, you know we don't
need that. The next time you get angry over a
bad play, remember you need teamwork to win, not arguments.
And the kids would all say, now we know, and
then everybody would say together, and knowing is half the battle. Yeah,
you know, self knowledge and knowledge of others is truly
(07:44):
half the battle. And when you have that information, it
helps you make decisions that work for others, works for
you and for others, which to me is really the
other half of the battle. And this kind of all
leads to us as being you know, really happy and content.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, knowing is half the battle.
I remember that well. And knowledge is power, and you know,
this all translates into knowing your personality type. That's going
to give you all sorts of insights about yourself and
this is what will lay the foundation for deeper personal
understanding and self awareness and that can lead to better
(08:22):
communication and it can for sure help with our career management,
just one example of how it can help you in.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Action, and it just helps you just in life in general,
right for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So since this is our first episode, Mark, I think
it might be helpful to share a little bit about
ourselves with our listeners. And if you're new to this
podcast or new tuning in, so, I'm an e NFP type,
So this stands for extroverted, intuitive, feeling, and perceiving. So
(09:00):
we're going to talk more about the dichotomies and the preferences.
But in a nutshell, people who are NFP types, we
tend to be quite enthusiastic. We are very relationship focused,
and we are driven by clever new ideas. We love
to come up with out of the box solutions. We
(09:23):
love brainstorming and sharing our ideas with others, and I
think many of us work in creative fields or are
drawn to the arts in some way. We tend to
be curious about people, and I'm proud to say that
nearly every NFP type I've met is at their hearts.
(09:44):
They're a non judgmental person, as non judgmental as we
can be in today's world.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
We just love people.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
We love hearing people's stories and trying to figure out
what drives them and motivates them. And we can be
quite enthusiastic about sharing, about sharing everything, and I think
that on the downside, this can easily overwhelm some other people,
especially people who are more introverted, because we can be intense,
(10:14):
but really we don't mean to be. At our core,
we tend to be motivators. We want to inspire people.
We want to inspire people to do what motivates them.
We're not really interested in trying to control people. We're
not interested in routines or monotonous work. And if you
try to force us into a box or try to
(10:37):
micromanage us, it's just not going to work. And as
a result, I don't see many NFP types in corporate
type career environments or in office settings. And I tell you, Mark,
like I said before, when I first found out that
this is my type, it absolutely changed my life, incredibly
(10:59):
validating for me and I you know, I just I
suddenly understood why I don't get along with certain people
and why I couldn't stick with just one task or
job or boyfriend. Back in the day, I was constantly
seeking something new, and this is a struggle I've heard
from a lot of other NFP types as well. So
(11:19):
for the past twenty years, I've been on this quest
to bring the Meyers, Briggs and type theory to others
and use it to help people understand naturally who they
are so they can grow and make better decisions for themselves. So, Mark,
I'd love to hear about your type and your journey.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Absolutely does not have to really just comment on something
that you mentioned. I can only imagine how validating and
how empowering it is to realize that there's nothing wrong
with you, that you just interact in these natural ways
and that's the reason why you might struggle. Like, I
don't think we necessarily have an issue with struggling, right,
I just think we need to know why we do.
(11:58):
And I think once we know why we do it,
then we're kind of in a good position. So I
just think that's so validating. You know, you talk, you
know what you said about understanding your type, and you know,
when I think about mine, like I said, I'm a novice,
so as I think through it, I definitely think I'm
an introvert. I definitely am an intuitive. I know that
(12:19):
I think I lean more feeling, and I think I'm
definitely a perceiver since everybody tells me that I'm late.
But well, like I said, I'm coming this through like
through a novice lens. So could you just help me
if and the audience understand, like, how would you figure
out what type you are?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Just in general? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, great question. So so to find your best fit
type or your true type, of course, you need to
take the assessment, the real deal Myers breaks assessment, and
you need to have a conversation with a type practitioner
who can explain it to you in a way that
you can hear. So when you take the assessment, what
you get is what we call your reported type. And
(13:03):
then you have a conversation with your practitioner, and through
that conversation and your understanding of the four dichotomies of
the Meyers Briggs, you can come up with your best
fit type. Now, there are number of free assessments that
you can take online, but they aren't the real deal.
They're not statistically reliable or validated for a particular purpose,
(13:27):
and a lot of these conversations happen around career development
and decision making, the conversation that you have with your practitioner.
But with that said, free online assessments you can take
and to anybody listening in, you can make a first
guess of your type as well. I do want to
convey though, that there's this concept of preferences, So.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Think about it like this.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
We all have the ability to use both our right
hands and our left hands, but it's a lot easier
to use your dominant hand so you can sign your
name naturally without thinking. And of course that's your dominant hand.
Now if you use your non dominant hand to sign.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Something, you have to really think about it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You have to think about like how you're holding the
pen and how you're forming the letters, and it's going
to take some practice, and it's probably not going to
be as nice and neat and clean as your handwriting
is with your dominant hand. So this is the same
idea with preferences. So I have a preference. My preference
(14:35):
is for my right hand. I'm right handed, and I
have a preference for extra version. I use introversion every day,
but it's not quite as easy or as natural for
me to do so. So that's this idea of preferences
here and with the Myers Briggs. The reality is that
(14:55):
we all fall on this spectrum, and we all exhibit
behaviors that are associated with both sides of the spectrum.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, that does make sense. We're not incapable of doing
either one right. We just have a preference where natural
It's like I, you know, I'm right handed too, right,
so like I can write with my left hand, I
just don't feel natural. I mean, I can write with
my left hand, but I don't feel natural doing it.
I'd rather just write with my right hand. You know,
same thing in sports. A lot of times in sports
(15:27):
you have certain handed dominance or footed dominance right like
you are natural. But if you're in a situation where
in order to become a better basketball player or soccer player,
that sort of stuff, you might need to develop your
left leg or your left hand because it's going to
make you more effective. You have to be very conscious
in how you do that. So so I think I
(15:49):
definitely have a preference for introversion. M h, what does
that mean? Like, like, like what is being introverted? Am
I shy? Anybody knows?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Me knows? I'm not sure?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But like, well, that's a common misconception about this introversion
extraversion dichotomy. But actually the reality is this is all
about energy source. So if you prefer introversion, you're energized
more internally than externally. You recharge your batteries by spending
(16:22):
time alone. You probably prefer to spend time with small
groups of people and small get togethers over large parties
or events. Some introverted types even avoid social functions because
they get drained so easily by a lot of external
stimulation and people, and introverted types tend to enjoy a
(16:45):
lot of solitary activities. They might be introspective and take
a little more time to make decisions and connect with
other people. And you mentioned shy, being shy or reserved,
and some introverted types may be seen as shy or reserved.
For example, the more the more clear ones especially, but
(17:05):
extroverted types are much more social. They tend to enjoy
being around a lot of people. They're energized externally, so
they're more about meeting new people. They're energized by taking
action and trying new things. So one way to spot
an extrovert is to watch them thinking out loud, because
(17:29):
we tend to form ideas and opinions while we're discussing them,
or we do our thinking while we're speaking. And a
lot of extroverted types might be uncomfortable with silence or
prolonged silence, so you might find them just talking about
anything to fill the silence, or saying well, okay, and
(17:53):
so sore. They're saying these things just to fill this
kind of awkward silence.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
So like, so when somebody is talking out loud, they're
thinking yeah as they talk.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Right, Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I mean I do this quite a lot, and it's
almost like for me, it's making things real, like I'm
just talking about this and there's nobody, nobody next to
me or not talking necessarily to anybody, but I'm vocalizing it,
and yeah, it helps me.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I guess, well, I can tell you that's definitely not me, right, So,
like but I do. I can tell you when I'm
around that, and like I need to figure out how
not to listen to that or maybe just help them.
Maybe I need to be more of an advisor as
they're kind of going because they're thinking as they're talking.
Because I definitely know I tend to come up with
my thoughts and then say it, and so like I'll
(18:44):
come up with like what I it's complete, Like I
don't really need your help, like I'm already completed my thoughts.
I definitely think I'm more of an introvert when it
comes to that. But some of the things that you mentioned,
it if just about like, yeah, I'm an introvert man,
Like I'm the dude that's sitting at by himself, like
I'm that guy that's randomly in section G one of
(19:05):
the movies watching a movie by himself, and I'm good, Like,
I am not weird. You don't have to like put
me on any type of list, Like, I'm not a weirdo.
I just really really enjoy not being in groups, right,
So I think that really really defines me. And once
you talked about like energy, I totally agree with you
with that, like just the idea of just being in groups,
(19:27):
Like I can give you good forty five minutes, I
can give you thirty to forty five minutes, but after that,
I'm looking for an extra strategy, right, And so like
I can definitely tell that I gain my energy in
those in the Dennis at the movies by myself processing.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
But then when I'm in a certain group and there's
a bunch of a bunch of chit chat, I struggle.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I struggle a lot, huh you know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
And the point I want to get around, Yeah you
mentioned this. You're like, I'm not a weirdo. There's nothing
wrong with me, And yeah, that's the important thing to remember.
It's you know, just like what you were saying, Well,
I can help the extroverts in processing, Well maybe we
don't need any help, well, any help you, right, it's
just kind of who we are. And it's just like
if I see you sitting in Denny's or sitting in
(20:13):
the movies by yourself, it doesn't mean that you're sad
or upset.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And I don't have the point I'm sorry for you, right.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No point, no point.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I will say this that like if you were to
poll like one hundred students of mine and said, do
you think mister Matthew is introverted extroverted? Ninety ninety percent
of people would say that I'm extroverted. Like I guess
I confuse them with that, like I show extroverted qualities
coming because of my job or certain things. So they're
(20:43):
always saying that I'm extroverted, not introverted, Like, can you
explain that phenomenon to us?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, well this comes back to you know, we're all
existing on this spectrum, right, And and I hear this
a lot. A lot of people take on behaviors of
their opposite for a lot of different reasons. And you know,
in your case, Mark, like you have to extrovert as
part of your job, Like you have to be around
(21:09):
all these kids and you've developed a certain personality. But
I also think that probably when you have been doing
that for hours and hours every day, you know you're
going to get a little more easily exhausted, possibly more
so than an extroverted type would. So you know, again,
just life experiences are going to have you take on
(21:33):
behaviors of your opposite just to survive in this world, right,
And it's the same for me. Like in my own case,
I was raised by a very introverted mother and she
encouraged a lot of solitary activities, not very many social activities.
So I learned how to kind of hone my introversion
(21:54):
from a young age. And there's sometimes now that people
mistake me for an introvert, just like you get mistaken
for an extrovert. But the point is, I think that
personality and behavior aren't always the same.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That's a really good thought. You know.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
One thing that I was thinking about as we were
talking about this is do individuals of similar preferences get
along better than those who maybe share different preferences?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, so I yeah, I hear this question a lot too,
And my answer is not necessarily, because there's a lot
that goes into relationships or friendships that the Myers Briggs
doesn't measure, and chemistry is one of these things that
(22:43):
the Myers Briggs doesn't measure, or any personality inventory for
that matter. You know, I have great work and personal
relationships with people who are both similar to me and
people who are very different from me. I have an
I f J coworker and ANNFJ coworker, and I mean,
(23:04):
I just don't think I can live without them, and
MYNTJ coworker too, and then my significant other is an ISFJ.
But of course I have a NFP friends too, and
of course there are some NFP types who I just
can't stand for whatever reason. So there's so much more
that goes into these things than are Meyers Briggs type.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's a good point, because you're this type, I'm automatically
going to get along or not get along with you,
because there's other aspects of us besides our personality that
determines how we behave and how we get along and
that sort of stuff. I do think though, when I'm
around individuals, like, for instance, I know we're going to
get into some of these I think it's like you know,
(23:49):
feeling types. When I get involved with those type of
individuals or individuals or perceivers or that sort of stuff
or intuitives which I think I am. Like, we tend
to get along because we I get them, like, oh yeah,
we're gonna We're gonna, like, you know, if I'm an introvert,
We're gonna love the idea of like being in our
own small group of really processing things down all the
way down to the depths, right all the way down
(24:12):
to the bottom of to the bedrock, Like I dig
that person. I get that person versus the other person
who's an extrovert. All they're doing is just talking random
thoughts and I'm struggling trying to piece them together and
that sort of stuff. So what's what's funny about you
and I as we've been interacting over this past year,
(24:32):
is we've gotten along because we are actually the same
type and the final three. So we're both into it
as we're both feeling and we're both perceiving. We're just
different on the extrovert and the introvert scales. So I
would love to for you to kind of explore what
makes us like very similar because of those particular personality
preferences that we have, and then also how may we
(24:55):
share different things with individuals who might be different than
us in the final three diferences.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, so great points overall, Mark, And yeah, let's just
look at the other dichotomies briefly. So you mentioned intuition,
so sensing an intuition. Let's look at this one first.
So this is the second dichotomy of the Meyers Briggs,
and this is about how we receive information. So sensing
types pay more attention to information that comes to them
(25:24):
through their five senses, so whatever they can see here, taste, touch,
and smell. Intuitives pay more attention to patterns and possibilities
that we see from the information we receive. So we
rely on our hunches or our intuition, and we tend
to solve problems by leaping through like different ideas and possibilities.
(25:48):
So we're looking at the big picture before the details.
And we may be accused of having our head in
the clouds or not following directions, or not being practical
or realistic. And our sensing friends are very detail oriented
and pragmatic, and they work through problems using this step
(26:10):
by step approach. So that's the s N dichotomy in
a nutshell. And then if we're talking about JAY and P,
so this one is really interesting too. This is the
fourth pair talking about leaping over things. Here, I'm going
to just leap right over to the.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
J and the P.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
This is the fourth pair, and it's about how you
live your outer life. So, judging types or jays, tend
to be outwardly firm and direct and opinionated a lot
of the time. They tend to be organized, they plan ahead,
they don't like surprises, and they don't really like unanswered
(26:50):
questions too much. Jay's want closure. Perceiving types tend to
be more open ended and spontaneous. They're more adaptable and receptive,
and they're more casual in their words and their qualifications
than judging types. So I think where I was going
with this was about the s J types because these
(27:13):
folks are really different from we NP types. So SJ
type sensing judging types, these are the folks who you know.
There can be a lot of contention between, I think,
between sjs and NP types, but SJ types these are
the folks who provide a lot of grounding and stability.
(27:34):
They're responsible and they need things to be in order
before they do any fun stuff, right, And we NP types. Mark,
we are all about the fun. We want to enjoy ourselves.
We don't mind change, we don't mind things being a
bit unsettled. So it's easy to see where these two
especially can kind of get on each other's nerves. But
(27:56):
it's also really easy to see kind of where we
meet each other, right, And so when you were talking
earlier about you know, finding other types who were similar
to you and really getting each other, Yes, absolutely, I
mean it's just it's so validating to find somebody of
your own type, and you can so easily communicate with
(28:16):
that person, sometimes like without even words, because you just
get each other. With people who are our opposites, it
might not be quite as easy to get each other initially.
That just relationships with these folks offer a lot of
opportunities for personal growth for ourselves too.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Absolutely, I could just see it with just time, right,
like we look at that perceiving preference, right and looking
at time and closure like yes, like I feel like
both of us for us for time, like I'm look,
we've for full disclosure for those individuals in the audience
when we you know, we're both perceivers and we say
it's one thirty, Yeah, we might not be there at
(28:58):
one thirty, and we try to be there at one
point thirty. And I don't think it's a disrespect of time.
I think it's how we value time. I think it's
how we feel that if we're trying to give time
for possibilities, time for things to different happen. We want
to be able to offer everything at the meeting. We
don't want there to be any closure to that, and
(29:19):
so I think we're affording so if I see something
or I get in a different con So I'll give
you an example. If I talk to my brother right
and we're talking about what we're going to talk about
at the meeting, like I'm going to give time for that,
Like I know I'm going to be late, right, But
what if that was going to be information that we
can use to better the podcast or to do certain
things like that.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's the way I look at time. First.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I feel like a lot of my you know, my
judging friends, I feel like they would just cut off
the thing where they would look at their clock or
get very antsy and but hey, I gotta go see you,
And I would be like, well, we're having such a
good conversation. Why would you allow the time to take
away what could be learned. But it's just because we're different.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Right hm hmm.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And I you know, as you're talking about this, I'm
I'm reminded of how like I'm still a perceiver. But
I've been in these jay environments for so long. I've
been in these judging environments for so long. I've really
like us my the opposite side of myself to kind
of hone myself that way. And I'm so sometimes I
(30:24):
feel like I'm just this task master with the time
thing too, And I think I'm so concerned about respecting
other people's time, i e. The Jay's time that I've
I've gotten to be this person who is normally like
not late or I'm like, okay, we're out of time now.
I'm just I'm so overly focused on that, and it
(30:47):
is definitely not natural for me, Like I want to
be this casual person and you know, I want to
have these good conversations like you were talking about. But
you know, on the other hand, I think it's helped
me too to you know, just be more mindful of
tasks that I need to get done and responsibilities that
(31:07):
I have and things like that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, it's like we all need each other.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Like one of the things that I always talk about,
like when we are say we're in college or even
today and we get in groups, I'm not looking for
an NP like like I'm looking for an SJ.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Like that's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Like, I don't know if it's an opposite or track deal,
but I know an SJ is going to get the
job done. I know they're going to try to be productive.
I know they're going to set a deadline for things.
They're going to provide me with things that's going to
allow the best to occur from me, right, and so like,
I definitely feel like we all need each other. Whether
it's I think it's important in the intuitive stage where
(31:45):
I think it's important for us to have our ideas
and possibilities and I and those sorts of things mentioned
because it might actually help us solve this big problem
that we have. We can't just continue to do the
things the way we've always done that which a lot
of time censors.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
We'll talk about, well we've.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Always done it this way, but if the afford a
time for those intuitives to share their ideas, we might
come up with a better way, So we all need
each other in different team dynamics, right.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And let me just
say that I think it is amazing Mark, how two
NP types have actually pulled ourselves together to actually do
the work that's needed to be done for this podcast
and actually have a product now, because I tell you
(32:33):
it was it was a lot. So I think congratulations
to both of us. But now that we're talking about
some of these things, and you know, I think we've
each provided some information about our own personality types. What
about work environments, like, Mark, what do you think are
some of the best work environments for you that work
(32:53):
with your natural gifts?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
And if I love that word, man, I love the
phrase you just said, there give because really, these preferences
are gifts, and it's gifts that we give to our environments.
The more we look at our preferences as gifts and
strengths to make us better, we will make such a
great difference in our environment. So you know, when I
look at myself, I'm an introvert. I like to process
(33:16):
information and attempt to figure things out. So in any
work environment that allows me the opportunity and the time
to process is good. For me, I can't be in
environments that forced me to socialize too much. This really
just this kind of drains my energy, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Like it?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, yeah, And it's very typical for introverted types to
say that. In fact, I don't know if you or
you know our listeners know this, but introverted types brains
work differently, and one way that one way for this
mark is that you're actually more sensitive to dopamine than
we extroverts are. And dopamine is that that pleasure seeking
(33:59):
chemical or transmitter in our brains, and it provides external
rewards like earning money or climbing the corporate ladder if
we're if we're looking at workplace rewards, working on high
profile projects.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
And things like that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So for we extroverted types, when dopamine levels spike, we
tend to get excited and we get more talkative, and
we're more motivated to seek these types of external rewards.
But for introverted types, it's not that you have less dopamine.
It's that you tend to get overstimulated by dopamine. So yeah,
(34:39):
it's not really a surprise that you know you don't
want to be in environments where you have to socialize
too much. That's not going to be where you'll be
at your best. And it's best to be in places
where you're not going to have as many distractions and
workplaces that allow you to be more independent and not
interact with a lot of life large groups of people
(35:01):
all the time. You're gonna do much better with workplaces
that allow you independent thought and working with just smaller
groups of people or one on one.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, it's it sounds like I'm a strong introvert because
I love as you're speaking, a lot of these things
that you're mentioning really does apply to me, and as
I think about myself and the next preference, definitely think
I'm an intuitive and I think I'm a strong intuitive.
I love love to figure things out and look for
the possibility of things. A matter of fact, I'll tell
(35:33):
people like when I'm tired, like ask me a question
to figure things out, because it gives me energy that
I need to be able to get to. Like it's
like I wake up, I get out of my slumber
if I can figure things out. So I know I'm
very very strong in that, and I think that's where
I get my strong sense of helping others reach their potential,
just because I love to figure out things and possibilities
(35:55):
for people. And you know what's funny, I always thought
that I had this unique ability to you, like I
was some unique alien out there like Superman with the
special talent to help people reach their potential.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Like that was my thing, that was my superpower. Nobody
else in the world has.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
That until I found out that, No, it's just my
personality type.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Other people have it too. Yeah, man, I realized there
were other Superman.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
Yeah, there there's a few of you out there, I
would say, And I would also say, don't underestimate your
personality type because it is your gift and it is
your superhuman strength, and it's what makes you unique.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And you know, if we can all just apply our strengths,
it's gonna make this world a better place. It can
make us feel like we're superhuman beings.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Man.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
That's that is I mean, as a teacher, I'm getting
excited about what you're saying, right, because that's something I
always tell my students. I always tell them there's something special
in all of us. There's a unique gift that is
dying to cut out of us. And when we let
that gift out. We do feel like we're superhuman, right,
So I would say my superhuman gift, if I had
(37:08):
to like put it all together, would be to help
individuals or systems reach their potential, help them see the
possibilities of their life, and then help everybody live in harmony.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Like I feel that's what makes me different.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And if I had work environments that allows me to
do that, like, I think that they would see me
as Superman two as well, And so I think that's
really really important. And if boy, I wish that was
a I really wish there was a job that said, hey,
you get a chance to be this, because I think
that I would be able to let my whole self out.
It would almost be like I'm living a dream.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
That would be ideal, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And it's just it's easy to kind of feel like
we're the anomaly or even that, you know, on the
negative side of things, like somehow we're in the world
wrong when we're surrounded by these different personality types, like
people who are different from us, and these are the
times I think that we can struggle because we don't
(38:11):
fit in or because we're different, or it feels like
we don't fit in or we're not included or whatever.
And this has definitely happened to me on many occasions,
and I'm gonna bet that it's happened to you too, Mark.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
You know, like when I think about it, some areas
that I struggle are inflexible environments, like environments that are
totally inflexible.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Areas that are resistance to change.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I hate that, areas that are too traditional and hold
on to the mantra of this is how we always
do things like ooh, that gets my blood running.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yes, for real, Like a lack of innovation and not
allowing for creative ideas very stifling to me too.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
I agree with you, you.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Know, when I look at my two perfessions that I've
been in, teaching and coaching. You know, coaching kind of
allows me to help students reach their potential with few limitations.
On the other hand, I get stifled with the administrative
task of teaching, emails, grading, lesson planning, the same old
(39:19):
let's get into the data meetings, random.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Stuff, you know, random staff roof staff room banter. I hate.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I try to avoid those places, like the plague, you know,
like it's really, really important, you know, Like I just
really get really frustrated with education's resistance to change to
help students reach their full potential.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
That really kills me. You know.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
One thing I used to always say is if Benjamin
Franklin were to come back to life again, he would
be so confused with all the advancements we have planes.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Cars, electricity.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
He'd be like, oh, I can use this iPad for
my notes instead of this, you know, whatever little pend
they had to dip in all the time. But he
would walk into schools and then he would be like, oh,
my goodness, Like I feel safe. This place makes me
feel like home, you know, because it hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Ye, that's that's funny. And I bet it would be. Yeah,
he'd probably be pretty much at home more in like
higher education, I think, than in the K twelve system.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
But that's just me. That's just my thought. Yeah, it
can be annoying in some of.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
These work environments for personality types like ours, because we
are like the change agents. We're the innovative types of people.
We want everybody to get along and have harmony. And
you know, I really try hard to give these SJ
types or other types of people. I try to give
(40:50):
them grace in these situations, because just as their styles
and the way they approach work is annoying and frustrating
to me, I'm sure I'm very frustrating to them. So
I try to meet people halfway as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So that's I mean, that's a great that's a great
like advice for people. So it is what.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Work environments allow you to use your personality gifts and
what work environments are your greatest source of frustration?
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, well I'm very similar to you Mark, if I
had to summon up. There are two must haves for
me at work. First is a friendly workplace, and the
second is work that allows me to be creative. So first, like,
if I'm surrounded by mean people or people who are
trying to command and control me and undermine me or
(41:46):
compete with me, that is just an instant no go
for me. I have said more than once at work,
just be nice, and it's amazing how difficult that seems
to be for some people. I also, I just can't
handle places that will force me into a box where
I'm expected to just sit at a cubicle and do
(42:07):
routine work day after day with no sense of purpose.
And I have been in workplaces like this where you're
just expected to sit there and read Excel spreadsheets or
contracts and you don't have any context for what you're reading.
And honestly, like I felt like an idiot when I'm
in those places, like there's some kind of secret language
(42:28):
that I'm just not getting and trying to greet people
and smile and strike up a conversation with people that
didn't work either, because they're just looking at like I'm
some kind of freak, and like why is this person
talking to me? And that's how I felt. And you know,
these types of work environments, they may be great places
(42:48):
to work for SJ types, especially like an ISTJ type,
but these are not the best types of workplaces for me.
You're just not going to get the best apt at
me if you put me in some kind of box
and you don't talk to me and you try to
restrict my creative ideas and my input. And that's why
(43:09):
I think a lot of corporate environments can be tough
places for E NFPs and I NFPs like us Mark.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
You know, like it's oh man, I just I don't
know if you felt me like cringing as you were
as you're talking, and you know.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
For sure because I was cringing.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
And it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
And I know we're coming to the end of the
episode and I want us to, but I just want
to briefly just talk a little bit about what a
missed opportunity we have in our work environments. Like we're
spending eight hours of our day, and some majority of
people more than that. They're not just spending eight hours
of their day, but they're spending three to five other
hours outside of the work like structure in their work task, right,
(43:55):
And we're missing out on an opportunity where we can
actually have people have their strengths and their personality gifts
come out in those areas. Like could you imagine if
everybody was in an area where they had their personalities,
were valued, their personality gifts, they had time and space
to provide those particular gifts to their work environments, how
(44:18):
much more productive we can be, right, And that's the
thing where everybody wants to be productive.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Then why did we.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Spend our time with people doing the things that we
don't want them to do.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Now, this is my intuitive speaking, so I'm sure my
sensors are like, dude.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
We can't do that because that's like it's never been done,
it's impossible to do. But I think there's a way
that we can. I think it's possible for us to
create in work environments where people can bring themselves to
the workplace, and if we're able to get enough people
to do that, we would increase productivity to a point
where I don't know, like everybody's making money. Like I
(44:54):
just I don't know why we have to leave be
in work environments where people spend the majority of their
days doing something they don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Frustrates me.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's ideally, I mean,
that would be great if we can all kind of
divide ourselves up in this way to be more productive.
And yeah, for sure that's going to be tied to
revenue here, and you know it can it's just a
win win for everybody if we could do that. And
(45:22):
you know what, one thing I'm thinking about when you're
talking about that, Mark is maybe some other I n
f P types who might be tuning in, and maybe
you have some thoughts for them in terms of you know,
advice you could give or you know, if they're feeling
burned out or stressed out, how they might deal with that?
What do you what do you think, Mark? What advice
(45:42):
would you give to our I n f P friends
who are tuning in?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I would say, you know, if there's general advice for
any personality type for me, so, regardless of whether or
not you're I in f P type, is bring your
personality type to your job. Like I just want and
off on my soapbox about how the work environment should
fit us, right, but we kind.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Of all know that might be a little bit on realistic.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
You know, if you don't have that opportunity for that
work environment to change, then you change your personal life.
You need to find opportunities within your workday to bring
your personality type to your job. So if you look
at a lot of I in FPS, right, we want
to bring out the best in others. We want to
help them reach their potential. Where in my job can
(46:27):
I bring that strength to the job. How might I
bring value to our team and to the bottom line?
That's the key. If you can show how your strength
can increase the bottom line, your company will allow you
to do more of it. So I need to be thinking,
how do I use my natural strength of bringing people together,
(46:50):
bringing out visionary ideas to the table, and being a
creative problem solver to add value to my company. And
what I will see is the more I bring value
to my company through my personality strengths, my company might
carve out a space for me to use my personality strengths.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
More and pay me for it.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Right, So, even if I don't even get paid more,
these activities will give me more energy and joy to
do the job tax that I really really don't want
to do. So remember, your personality strengths frees you, gives
you energy, and gives you joy, so we should use them.
I've spoken on how the schooling work environment oftentimes stifles
(47:31):
me because it doesn't fit my natural I INFP type,
but I find ways to help students and teachers reach
their potential nonetheless. Right, I'm going to find time for
what I call mister Mathe's life lessons, and any students
who happen to be listening to that, they know that
if they approach it, they're in my class.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
They're going to get life lessons. Right.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
So, you know, I've been a marketing teacher, I've been
a leadership teacher, I've been a pe teacher and I've
always given space and time for mister Mathew's life. Lets
I'm going to find ways to contribute my personality strength
to my job. So that would be my advice to
all find more ways to contribute who you are to
your work.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah yeah, well, said mister Mnthy here. And you know,
as you were mentioning earlier, just finding ways to bring
your personality to work, and just find ways to do that,
even if it's not natural to your type. And as
much as you know, I know we all want to
do this, as much as it is ideal to be
able to bring your full self to work, and as
(48:33):
much as people in these work environments say that's what
they want, it's not always possible for one reason or another.
And you know, I think there's a lot of leaders
out there who say these things, but their behavior doesn't
follow the words that come out of their mouths. And
I'm saying this to leaders because leaders are the ones
(48:54):
who are setting the stage here. And there's some of
us who try very hard to be ourselves and fit
into the workplace, and for whatever reason, it just doesn't
work out, and it leaves us feeling drained. And unappreciated,
and that you know it affects our morale and our productivity,
(49:16):
and it hurts the business ultimately. So I just want
to say this for all the folks who are tuning
in who can relate to this struggle. At some point
you need to prioritize your well being, and maybe that
means finding a different workplace or even a different career path.
I don't want to end, because I know we're starting
to wrap things up. I don't want to end on
a sour note here, but I do want to let
(49:38):
everyone tuning in know that there is hope. There are
people out there who truly do want to see you succeed,
and there are people out there who truly do want
to help.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
I agree with that, right.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
And the thing about it is it's a level of agency, right, Like,
let's switch who's responsible for a happy this instead of
looking at our leaders need to be responsible for our happiness?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Right?
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Or or a manager, why can't they put me in
a better environment? Switch the agency you or you take
the agency right, and then you figure out ways that
you can apply some of these things to your life. Like,
there is hope, people do want to see you succeed.
They may just not know how to do it. But
I think what Myyers brings and this idea of personality
(50:26):
strengths and how you can bring that out into the world.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
What that allows you to do is allow you.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
To take the ownership to they create that and to
to show your leaders how they can create an environment
that best works for you.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
So that way it's a win win for everybody. So
I love that point.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Right and talk about how empowering that is and that
could be. Yeah, And on that note, thank you Mark.
That is a great way to end our episode here
and for the folks tuning in, thank you for staying
with us till the end. We are going to have
more great converse stations like this, so please please please
take a moment to leave us a comment, subscribe, share
(51:06):
this with your friends. You can reach out to me
on a topcreer dot com or on LinkedIn. And with that,
I'm going to say goodbye for now. Stay safe and
be well, folks.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Thanks for tuning in, follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Platform, and please reach out to me on LinkedIn and
on my website at top career dot com for more
updated content. While the Myers Briggs and MBTI R trademarks
of the Meersbriggs Foundation. Viewpoints expressed here are our own
Hey everybody. Edith Richards here. It is mid July twenty
twenty three as we are recording this episode of the
New Myers Briggs Question Corner. I am back after over
a year. Really appreciate all of you who have stuck
with me all these years. Thank you so much. I
am back with a new co host and we've been
(00:21):
doing some really exciting things behind the scenes to bring
you all some great content. So sit back. This is
our inaugural episode and I think you're going to like it. Hello, folks,
(00:51):
and welcome to the New Myers Briggs Question Corner. I
am Edith.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Richards and I'm Mark Matthey.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And we are very pleased to be here. It has
been a while. We have been on hiatus for over
a year now. I have been hosting this podcast since
twenty sixteen with David Terris, who was my Scottish producer
and friend, and unfortunately he couldn't continue due to some
(01:19):
health reasons. But I got to know Mark in the meantime,
and Mark, you are just so bubbly and full of energy,
you have a great radio voice, and you're just an
all around nice guy. So I asked if you'd be
interested in co hosting with me, and fortunately you agreed.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I'm really excited to be co hosting with you, Edith.
Is this such a source of knowledge and expertise, and
I'm thrilled to learn from her every time I interact
with her. Just a little bit about myself. I'm a
career teacher and I'm a football coach. I've been teaching
for eighteen years and I've been coaching for twenty. I'm
living my best life as we're recording this during the summer,
(02:02):
so I'm not going into school every day, so I'm
really really relaxed, excited, rejuvenated. So I'm really really excited.
I'm looking forward to this conversation we're going to have
about Myers Briggs. Although I'm not a Myers Briggs expert,
my novice knowledge with MBTI has given me a lot
of self awareness and has helped me in my life tremendously.
(02:24):
So thrilled to join you Edith on the Meyers Bregak
Question Corner.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, thank you, Mark, I'm so glad you're here. We
are both fans of the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator, or MBTI.
I myself have been using it in my work as
a career counselor for about twenty years now, and I
use it a lot in my work with human resources
and leadership development too. So I am a master practitioner,
(02:51):
which is really just a fancy way of saying that
I know quite a bit about personality in terms of
theory and application. So, folks, if you're tuning in and
you have a question about personality or the MBTI, please
get in touch. We'd love to answer your question on air.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I think one of the most important and most valuable
things you can have in this world is knowledge of
yourself and knowledge of others. I truly think our ultimate
goal in life is to live a life of full
authenticity and the use of our true selves to make
a difference in this world. That's why I think this
podcast can be so valuable, because we're discussing things that
(03:34):
will lead to a sense of wholeness as a Master practitioner.
I wonder if you could explain to our listeners the
value of this authenticity and finding who you are through MBTI.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, authenticity is the word there. Indeed, you know, Mark,
I grew up sort of like a fish out of water.
I guess I was different from everybody else in my family,
and I was always getting or I guess I felt
like I was getting pointed at for these differences, like oh, Edith,
you're so messy, or why didn't you remember to do
(04:09):
whatever task it was I was supposed to do, or
why can't you just stick to this one activity and
learn to master it, or you need to do whatever
this is better. So there was a lot of that
in my childhood, or at least that's how I felt.
I thought that something was wrong with me. And part
of this is just maturity and you know, my own
(04:32):
sense of independence and getting on with life and having
certain life experiences. But I'll tell you, when I found
out about the Meyers Briggs in my late twenties, it
was incredibly validating. I just remember reading the description for
my type and I just I couldn't believe it. I
felt like, this is what I've been missing my whole life.
(04:52):
So now I know why I do the things I do,
why I didn't always get along with certain people, or
why I felt like the black sheep in my family.
It always it helped me to approach things differently with
my family members and empathize with them in a way
that I hadn't before, and now with the knowledge and
(05:14):
experience that I have, I'm trying to bring that to
other people and help them use the Meyers Griggs as
a tool to help them understand themselves better and to
become more aware of the interactions and relationships they have
with other people. And that can help us to make
better decisions for ourselves, to communicate with people who are
(05:37):
like us, and also appreciate people who are different from us.
And this isn't a tool to categorize or pigeonhole people,
but I do believe when it's used correctly, it can
truly empower people.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Wow, that is great, like what you just mentioned about
the impact of self knowledge, but also the understanding of
others and how that can really help us make certain
decisions in life and kind of help us stare our
life in a way that can lead to a level
of success. And most importantly understanding. I think in this
(06:16):
as we're moving into this world with a lot of
the device inness that's going on, understanding is so important.
And one of the tenants I live by and I've
always lived by, is know thyself and put thyself in
the right environment for oneself right. So and if I
don't know if you've ever watched the cartoon GI Joe
back in the day, had did you ever watch that cartoon?
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yes, I sure did. G I Joe.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
G I Joe was was great, right, And like the
majority of cartoons and those sorts of things, there was
always like they always had the cartoon for about twenty
five minutes, and you knew the last five minutes there
was a lesson, like there was a moral lesson that
was going to be put on there. So I remember
the end of G I Joe. They would always say,
you know, they would have some sort of life lesson
(07:01):
and then the kids would say, and knowing is half
the battle. So I remember there was a like, let's
they say, there's this episode that they're having there and
the kids are playing and they're in a struggle or
something like that that's going on, and somebody commits a foul, right,
or they start arguing and those things start to occur
and there's some sort of confrontation. G I Joe would
(07:22):
come up and say, hey, guys, you know we don't
need that. The next time you get angry over a
bad play, remember you need teamwork to win, not arguments.
And the kids would all say, now we know, and
then everybody would say together, and knowing is half the battle. Yeah,
you know, self knowledge and knowledge of others is truly
(07:44):
half the battle. And when you have that information, it
helps you make decisions that work for others, works for
you and for others, which to me is really the
other half of the battle. And this kind of all
leads to us as being you know, really happy and content.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, knowing is half the battle.
I remember that well. And knowledge is power, and you know,
this all translates into knowing your personality type. That's going
to give you all sorts of insights about yourself and
this is what will lay the foundation for deeper personal
understanding and self awareness and that can lead to better
(08:22):
communication and it can for sure help with our career management,
just one example of how it can help you in.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Action, and it just helps you just in life in general,
right for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
So since this is our first episode, Mark, I think
it might be helpful to share a little bit about
ourselves with our listeners. And if you're new to this
podcast or new tuning in, so, I'm an e NFP type,
So this stands for extroverted, intuitive, feeling, and perceiving. So
(09:00):
we're going to talk more about the dichotomies and the preferences.
But in a nutshell, people who are NFP types, we
tend to be quite enthusiastic. We are very relationship focused,
and we are driven by clever new ideas. We love
to come up with out of the box solutions. We
(09:23):
love brainstorming and sharing our ideas with others, and I
think many of us work in creative fields or are
drawn to the arts in some way. We tend to
be curious about people, and I'm proud to say that
nearly every NFP type I've met is at their hearts.
(09:44):
They're a non judgmental person, as non judgmental as we
can be in today's world.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
We just love people.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
We love hearing people's stories and trying to figure out
what drives them and motivates them. And we can be
quite enthusiastic about sharing, about sharing everything, and I think
that on the downside, this can easily overwhelm some other people,
especially people who are more introverted, because we can be intense,
(10:14):
but really we don't mean to be. At our core,
we tend to be motivators. We want to inspire people.
We want to inspire people to do what motivates them.
We're not really interested in trying to control people. We're
not interested in routines or monotonous work. And if you
try to force us into a box or try to
(10:37):
micromanage us, it's just not going to work. And as
a result, I don't see many NFP types in corporate
type career environments or in office settings. And I tell you, Mark,
like I said before, when I first found out that
this is my type, it absolutely changed my life, incredibly
(10:59):
validating for me and I you know, I just I
suddenly understood why I don't get along with certain people
and why I couldn't stick with just one task or
job or boyfriend. Back in the day, I was constantly
seeking something new, and this is a struggle I've heard
from a lot of other NFP types as well. So
(11:19):
for the past twenty years, I've been on this quest
to bring the Meyers, Briggs and type theory to others
and use it to help people understand naturally who they
are so they can grow and make better decisions for themselves. So, Mark,
I'd love to hear about your type and your journey.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Absolutely does not have to really just comment on something
that you mentioned. I can only imagine how validating and
how empowering it is to realize that there's nothing wrong
with you, that you just interact in these natural ways
and that's the reason why you might struggle. Like, I
don't think we necessarily have an issue with struggling, right,
I just think we need to know why we do.
(11:58):
And I think once we know why we do it,
then we're kind of in a good position. So I
just think that's so validating. You know, you talk, you
know what you said about understanding your type, and you know,
when I think about mine, like I said, I'm a novice,
so as I think through it, I definitely think I'm
an introvert. I definitely am an intuitive. I know that
(12:19):
I think I lean more feeling, and I think I'm
definitely a perceiver since everybody tells me that I'm late.
But well, like I said, I'm coming this through like
through a novice lens. So could you just help me
if and the audience understand, like, how would you figure
out what type you are?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Just in general? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, great question. So so to find your best fit
type or your true type, of course, you need to
take the assessment, the real deal Myers breaks assessment, and
you need to have a conversation with a type practitioner
who can explain it to you in a way that
you can hear. So when you take the assessment, what
you get is what we call your reported type. And
(13:03):
then you have a conversation with your practitioner, and through
that conversation and your understanding of the four dichotomies of
the Meyers Briggs, you can come up with your best
fit type. Now, there are number of free assessments that
you can take online, but they aren't the real deal.
They're not statistically reliable or validated for a particular purpose,
(13:27):
and a lot of these conversations happen around career development
and decision making, the conversation that you have with your practitioner.
But with that said, free online assessments you can take
and to anybody listening in, you can make a first
guess of your type as well. I do want to
convey though, that there's this concept of preferences, So.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Think about it like this.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
We all have the ability to use both our right
hands and our left hands, but it's a lot easier
to use your dominant hand so you can sign your
name naturally without thinking. And of course that's your dominant hand.
Now if you use your non dominant hand to sign.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Something, you have to really think about it.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You have to think about like how you're holding the
pen and how you're forming the letters, and it's going
to take some practice, and it's probably not going to
be as nice and neat and clean as your handwriting
is with your dominant hand. So this is the same
idea with preferences. So I have a preference. My preference
(14:35):
is for my right hand. I'm right handed, and I
have a preference for extra version. I use introversion every day,
but it's not quite as easy or as natural for
me to do so. So that's this idea of preferences
here and with the Myers Briggs. The reality is that
(14:55):
we all fall on this spectrum, and we all exhibit
behaviors that are associated with both sides of the spectrum.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, that does make sense. We're not incapable of doing
either one right. We just have a preference where natural
It's like I, you know, I'm right handed too, right,
so like I can write with my left hand, I
just don't feel natural. I mean, I can write with
my left hand, but I don't feel natural doing it.
I'd rather just write with my right hand. You know,
same thing in sports. A lot of times in sports
(15:27):
you have certain handed dominance or footed dominance right like
you are natural. But if you're in a situation where
in order to become a better basketball player or soccer player,
that sort of stuff, you might need to develop your
left leg or your left hand because it's going to
make you more effective. You have to be very conscious
in how you do that. So so I think I
(15:49):
definitely have a preference for introversion. M h, what does
that mean? Like, like, like what is being introverted? Am
I shy? Anybody knows?
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Me knows? I'm not sure?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But like, well, that's a common misconception about this introversion
extraversion dichotomy. But actually the reality is this is all
about energy source. So if you prefer introversion, you're energized
more internally than externally. You recharge your batteries by spending
(16:22):
time alone. You probably prefer to spend time with small
groups of people and small get togethers over large parties
or events. Some introverted types even avoid social functions because
they get drained so easily by a lot of external
stimulation and people, and introverted types tend to enjoy a
(16:45):
lot of solitary activities. They might be introspective and take
a little more time to make decisions and connect with
other people. And you mentioned shy, being shy or reserved,
and some introverted types may be seen as shy or reserved.
For example, the more the more clear ones especially, but
(17:05):
extroverted types are much more social. They tend to enjoy
being around a lot of people. They're energized externally, so
they're more about meeting new people. They're energized by taking
action and trying new things. So one way to spot
an extrovert is to watch them thinking out loud, because
(17:29):
we tend to form ideas and opinions while we're discussing them,
or we do our thinking while we're speaking. And a
lot of extroverted types might be uncomfortable with silence or
prolonged silence, so you might find them just talking about
anything to fill the silence, or saying well, okay, and
(17:53):
so sore. They're saying these things just to fill this
kind of awkward silence.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
So that's what it is.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
So like, so when somebody is talking out loud, they're
thinking yeah as they talk.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Right, Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I mean I do this quite a lot, and it's
almost like for me, it's making things real, like I'm
just talking about this and there's nobody, nobody next to
me or not talking necessarily to anybody, but I'm vocalizing it,
and yeah, it helps me.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I guess, well, I can tell you that's definitely not me, right, So,
like but I do. I can tell you when I'm
around that, and like I need to figure out how
not to listen to that or maybe just help them.
Maybe I need to be more of an advisor as
they're kind of going because they're thinking as they're talking.
Because I definitely know I tend to come up with
my thoughts and then say it, and so like I'll
(18:44):
come up with like what I it's complete, Like I
don't really need your help, like I'm already completed my thoughts.
I definitely think I'm more of an introvert when it
comes to that. But some of the things that you mentioned,
it if just about like, yeah, I'm an introvert man,
Like I'm the dude that's sitting at by himself, like
I'm that guy that's randomly in section G one of
(19:05):
the movies watching a movie by himself, and I'm good, Like,
I am not weird. You don't have to like put
me on any type of list, Like, I'm not a weirdo.
I just really really enjoy not being in groups, right,
So I think that really really defines me. And once
you talked about like energy, I totally agree with you
with that, like just the idea of just being in groups,
(19:27):
Like I can give you good forty five minutes, I
can give you thirty to forty five minutes, but after that,
I'm looking for an extra strategy, right, And so like
I can definitely tell that I gain my energy in
those in the Dennis at the movies by myself processing.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
But then when I'm in a certain group and there's
a bunch of a bunch of chit chat, I struggle.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I struggle a lot, huh you know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
And the point I want to get around, Yeah you
mentioned this. You're like, I'm not a weirdo. There's nothing
wrong with me, And yeah, that's the important thing to remember.
It's you know, just like what you were saying, Well,
I can help the extroverts in processing, Well maybe we
don't need any help, well, any help you, right, it's
just kind of who we are. And it's just like
if I see you sitting in Denny's or sitting in
(20:13):
the movies by yourself, it doesn't mean that you're sad
or upset.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And I don't have the point I'm sorry for you, right.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
No point, no point.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I will say this that like if you were to
poll like one hundred students of mine and said, do
you think mister Matthew is introverted extroverted? Ninety ninety percent
of people would say that I'm extroverted. Like I guess
I confuse them with that, like I show extroverted qualities
coming because of my job or certain things. So they're
(20:43):
always saying that I'm extroverted, not introverted, Like, can you
explain that phenomenon to us?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, well this comes back to you know, we're all
existing on this spectrum, right, And and I hear this
a lot. A lot of people take on behaviors of
their opposite for a lot of different reasons. And you know,
in your case, Mark, like you have to extrovert as
part of your job, Like you have to be around
(21:09):
all these kids and you've developed a certain personality. But
I also think that probably when you have been doing
that for hours and hours every day, you know you're
going to get a little more easily exhausted, possibly more
so than an extroverted type would. So you know, again,
just life experiences are going to have you take on
(21:33):
behaviors of your opposite just to survive in this world, right,
And it's the same for me. Like in my own case,
I was raised by a very introverted mother and she
encouraged a lot of solitary activities, not very many social activities.
So I learned how to kind of hone my introversion
(21:54):
from a young age. And there's sometimes now that people
mistake me for an introvert, just like you get mistaken
for an extrovert. But the point is, I think that
personality and behavior aren't always the same.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That's a really good thought. You know.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
One thing that I was thinking about as we were
talking about this is do individuals of similar preferences get
along better than those who maybe share different preferences?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, so I yeah, I hear this question a lot too,
And my answer is not necessarily, because there's a lot
that goes into relationships or friendships that the Myers Briggs
doesn't measure, and chemistry is one of these things that
(22:43):
the Myers Briggs doesn't measure, or any personality inventory for
that matter. You know, I have great work and personal
relationships with people who are both similar to me and
people who are very different from me. I have an
I f J coworker and ANNFJ coworker, and I mean,
(23:04):
I just don't think I can live without them, and
MYNTJ coworker too, and then my significant other is an ISFJ.
But of course I have a NFP friends too, and
of course there are some NFP types who I just
can't stand for whatever reason. So there's so much more
that goes into these things than are Meyers Briggs type.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's a good point, because you're this type, I'm automatically
going to get along or not get along with you,
because there's other aspects of us besides our personality that
determines how we behave and how we get along and
that sort of stuff. I do think though, when I'm
around individuals, like, for instance, I know we're going to
get into some of these I think it's like you know,
(23:49):
feeling types. When I get involved with those type of
individuals or individuals or perceivers or that sort of stuff
or intuitives which I think I am. Like, we tend
to get along because we I get them, like, oh yeah,
we're gonna We're gonna, like, you know, if I'm an introvert,
We're gonna love the idea of like being in our
own small group of really processing things down all the
way down to the depths, right all the way down
(24:12):
to the bottom of to the bedrock, Like I dig
that person. I get that person versus the other person
who's an extrovert. All they're doing is just talking random
thoughts and I'm struggling trying to piece them together and
that sort of stuff. So what's what's funny about you
and I as we've been interacting over this past year,
(24:32):
is we've gotten along because we are actually the same
type and the final three. So we're both into it
as we're both feeling and we're both perceiving. We're just
different on the extrovert and the introvert scales. So I
would love to for you to kind of explore what
makes us like very similar because of those particular personality
preferences that we have, and then also how may we
(24:55):
share different things with individuals who might be different than
us in the final three diferences.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, so great points overall, Mark, And yeah, let's just
look at the other dichotomies briefly. So you mentioned intuition,
so sensing an intuition. Let's look at this one first.
So this is the second dichotomy of the Meyers Briggs,
and this is about how we receive information. So sensing
types pay more attention to information that comes to them
(25:24):
through their five senses, so whatever they can see here, taste, touch,
and smell. Intuitives pay more attention to patterns and possibilities
that we see from the information we receive. So we
rely on our hunches or our intuition, and we tend
to solve problems by leaping through like different ideas and possibilities.
(25:48):
So we're looking at the big picture before the details.
And we may be accused of having our head in
the clouds or not following directions, or not being practical
or realistic. And our sensing friends are very detail oriented
and pragmatic, and they work through problems using this step
(26:10):
by step approach. So that's the s N dichotomy in
a nutshell. And then if we're talking about JAY and P,
so this one is really interesting too. This is the
fourth pair talking about leaping over things. Here, I'm going
to just leap right over to the.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
J and the P.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
This is the fourth pair, and it's about how you
live your outer life. So, judging types or jays, tend
to be outwardly firm and direct and opinionated a lot
of the time. They tend to be organized, they plan ahead,
they don't like surprises, and they don't really like unanswered
(26:50):
questions too much. Jay's want closure. Perceiving types tend to
be more open ended and spontaneous. They're more adaptable and receptive,
and they're more casual in their words and their qualifications
than judging types. So I think where I was going
with this was about the s J types because these
(27:13):
folks are really different from we NP types. So SJ
type sensing judging types, these are the folks who you know.
There can be a lot of contention between, I think,
between sjs and NP types, but SJ types these are
the folks who provide a lot of grounding and stability.
(27:34):
They're responsible and they need things to be in order
before they do any fun stuff, right, And we NP types. Mark,
we are all about the fun. We want to enjoy ourselves.
We don't mind change, we don't mind things being a
bit unsettled. So it's easy to see where these two
especially can kind of get on each other's nerves. But
(27:56):
it's also really easy to see kind of where we
meet each other, right, And so when you were talking
earlier about you know, finding other types who were similar
to you and really getting each other, Yes, absolutely, I
mean it's just it's so validating to find somebody of
your own type, and you can so easily communicate with
(28:16):
that person, sometimes like without even words, because you just
get each other. With people who are our opposites, it
might not be quite as easy to get each other initially.
That just relationships with these folks offer a lot of
opportunities for personal growth for ourselves too.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Absolutely, I could just see it with just time, right,
like we look at that perceiving preference, right and looking
at time and closure like yes, like I feel like
both of us for us for time, like I'm look,
we've for full disclosure for those individuals in the audience
when we you know, we're both perceivers and we say
it's one thirty, Yeah, we might not be there at
(28:58):
one thirty, and we try to be there at one
point thirty. And I don't think it's a disrespect of time.
I think it's how we value time. I think it's
how we feel that if we're trying to give time
for possibilities, time for things to different happen. We want
to be able to offer everything at the meeting. We
don't want there to be any closure to that, and
(29:19):
so I think we're affording so if I see something
or I get in a different con So I'll give
you an example. If I talk to my brother right
and we're talking about what we're going to talk about
at the meeting, like I'm going to give time for that,
Like I know I'm going to be late, right, But
what if that was going to be information that we
can use to better the podcast or to do certain
things like that.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's the way I look at time. First.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I feel like a lot of my you know, my
judging friends, I feel like they would just cut off
the thing where they would look at their clock or
get very antsy and but hey, I gotta go see you,
And I would be like, well, we're having such a
good conversation. Why would you allow the time to take
away what could be learned. But it's just because we're different.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Right hm hmm.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And I you know, as you're talking about this, I'm
I'm reminded of how like I'm still a perceiver. But
I've been in these jay environments for so long. I've
been in these judging environments for so long. I've really
like us my the opposite side of myself to kind
of hone myself that way. And I'm so sometimes I
(30:24):
feel like I'm just this task master with the time
thing too, And I think I'm so concerned about respecting
other people's time, i e. The Jay's time that I've
I've gotten to be this person who is normally like
not late or I'm like, okay, we're out of time now.
I'm just I'm so overly focused on that, and it
(30:47):
is definitely not natural for me, Like I want to
be this casual person and you know, I want to
have these good conversations like you were talking about. But
you know, on the other hand, I think it's helped
me too to you know, just be more mindful of
tasks that I need to get done and responsibilities that
(31:07):
I have and things like that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, it's like we all need each other.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Like one of the things that I always talk about,
like when we are say we're in college or even
today and we get in groups, I'm not looking for
an NP like like I'm looking for an SJ.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Like that's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Like, I don't know if it's an opposite or track deal,
but I know an SJ is going to get the
job done. I know they're going to try to be productive.
I know they're going to set a deadline for things.
They're going to provide me with things that's going to
allow the best to occur from me, right, and so like,
I definitely feel like we all need each other. Whether
it's I think it's important in the intuitive stage where
(31:45):
I think it's important for us to have our ideas
and possibilities and I and those sorts of things mentioned
because it might actually help us solve this big problem
that we have. We can't just continue to do the
things the way we've always done that which a lot
of time censors.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
We'll talk about, well we've.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Always done it this way, but if the afford a
time for those intuitives to share their ideas, we might
come up with a better way, So we all need
each other in different team dynamics, right.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And let me just
say that I think it is amazing Mark, how two
NP types have actually pulled ourselves together to actually do
the work that's needed to be done for this podcast
and actually have a product now, because I tell you
(32:33):
it was it was a lot. So I think congratulations
to both of us. But now that we're talking about
some of these things, and you know, I think we've
each provided some information about our own personality types. What
about work environments, like, Mark, what do you think are
some of the best work environments for you that work
(32:53):
with your natural gifts?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
And if I love that word, man, I love the
phrase you just said, there give because really, these preferences
are gifts, and it's gifts that we give to our environments.
The more we look at our preferences as gifts and
strengths to make us better, we will make such a
great difference in our environment. So you know, when I
look at myself, I'm an introvert. I like to process
(33:16):
information and attempt to figure things out. So in any
work environment that allows me the opportunity and the time
to process is good. For me, I can't be in
environments that forced me to socialize too much. This really
just this kind of drains my energy, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Like it?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, yeah, And it's very typical for introverted types to
say that. In fact, I don't know if you or
you know our listeners know this, but introverted types brains
work differently, and one way that one way for this
mark is that you're actually more sensitive to dopamine than
we extroverts are. And dopamine is that that pleasure seeking
(33:59):
chemical or transmitter in our brains, and it provides external
rewards like earning money or climbing the corporate ladder if
we're if we're looking at workplace rewards, working on high
profile projects.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
And things like that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So for we extroverted types, when dopamine levels spike, we
tend to get excited and we get more talkative, and
we're more motivated to seek these types of external rewards.
But for introverted types, it's not that you have less dopamine.
It's that you tend to get overstimulated by dopamine. So yeah,
(34:39):
it's not really a surprise that you know you don't
want to be in environments where you have to socialize
too much. That's not going to be where you'll be
at your best. And it's best to be in places
where you're not going to have as many distractions and
workplaces that allow you to be more independent and not
interact with a lot of life large groups of people
(35:01):
all the time. You're gonna do much better with workplaces
that allow you independent thought and working with just smaller
groups of people or one on one.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, it's it sounds like I'm a strong introvert because
I love as you're speaking, a lot of these things
that you're mentioning really does apply to me, and as
I think about myself and the next preference, definitely think
I'm an intuitive and I think I'm a strong intuitive.
I love love to figure things out and look for
the possibility of things. A matter of fact, I'll tell
(35:33):
people like when I'm tired, like ask me a question
to figure things out, because it gives me energy that
I need to be able to get to. Like it's
like I wake up, I get out of my slumber
if I can figure things out. So I know I'm
very very strong in that, and I think that's where
I get my strong sense of helping others reach their potential,
just because I love to figure out things and possibilities
(35:55):
for people. And you know what's funny, I always thought
that I had this unique ability to you, like I
was some unique alien out there like Superman with the
special talent to help people reach their potential.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Like that was my thing, that was my superpower. Nobody
else in the world has.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
That until I found out that, No, it's just my
personality type.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Other people have it too. Yeah, man, I realized there
were other Superman.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
Yeah, there there's a few of you out there, I
would say, And I would also say, don't underestimate your
personality type because it is your gift and it is
your superhuman strength, and it's what makes you unique.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
And you know, if we can all just apply our strengths,
it's gonna make this world a better place. It can
make us feel like we're superhuman beings.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Man.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
That's that is I mean, as a teacher, I'm getting
excited about what you're saying, right, because that's something I
always tell my students. I always tell them there's something special
in all of us. There's a unique gift that is
dying to cut out of us. And when we let
that gift out. We do feel like we're superhuman, right,
So I would say my superhuman gift, if I had
(37:08):
to like put it all together, would be to help
individuals or systems reach their potential, help them see the
possibilities of their life, and then help everybody live in harmony.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Like I feel that's what makes me different.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And if I had work environments that allows me to
do that, like, I think that they would see me
as Superman two as well, And so I think that's
really really important. And if boy, I wish that was
a I really wish there was a job that said, hey,
you get a chance to be this, because I think
that I would be able to let my whole self out.
It would almost be like I'm living a dream.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
That would be ideal, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And it's just it's easy to kind of feel like
we're the anomaly or even that, you know, on the
negative side of things, like somehow we're in the world
wrong when we're surrounded by these different personality types, like
people who are different from us, and these are the
times I think that we can struggle because we don't
(38:11):
fit in or because we're different, or it feels like
we don't fit in or we're not included or whatever.
And this has definitely happened to me on many occasions,
and I'm gonna bet that it's happened to you too, Mark.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
You know, like when I think about it, some areas
that I struggle are inflexible environments, like environments that are
totally inflexible.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Areas that are resistance to change.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I hate that, areas that are too traditional and hold
on to the mantra of this is how we always
do things like ooh, that gets my blood running.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yes, for real, Like a lack of innovation and not
allowing for creative ideas very stifling to me too.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
I agree with you, you.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Know, when I look at my two perfessions that I've
been in, teaching and coaching. You know, coaching kind of
allows me to help students reach their potential with few limitations.
On the other hand, I get stifled with the administrative
task of teaching, emails, grading, lesson planning, the same old
(39:19):
let's get into the data meetings, random.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Stuff, you know, random staff roof staff room banter. I hate.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I try to avoid those places, like the plague, you know,
like it's really, really important, you know, Like I just
really get really frustrated with education's resistance to change to
help students reach their full potential.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
That really kills me. You know.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
One thing I used to always say is if Benjamin
Franklin were to come back to life again, he would
be so confused with all the advancements we have planes.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Cars, electricity.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
He'd be like, oh, I can use this iPad for
my notes instead of this, you know, whatever little pend
they had to dip in all the time. But he
would walk into schools and then he would be like, oh,
my goodness, Like I feel safe. This place makes me
feel like home, you know, because it hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Ye, that's that's funny. And I bet it would be. Yeah,
he'd probably be pretty much at home more in like
higher education, I think, than in the K twelve system.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
But that's just me. That's just my thought. Yeah, it
can be annoying in some of.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
These work environments for personality types like ours, because we
are like the change agents. We're the innovative types of people.
We want everybody to get along and have harmony. And
you know, I really try hard to give these SJ
types or other types of people. I try to give
(40:50):
them grace in these situations, because just as their styles
and the way they approach work is annoying and frustrating
to me, I'm sure I'm very frustrating to them. So
I try to meet people halfway as much as I can.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
So that's I mean, that's a great that's a great
like advice for people. So it is what.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Work environments allow you to use your personality gifts and
what work environments are your greatest source of frustration?
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, well I'm very similar to you Mark, if I
had to summon up. There are two must haves for
me at work. First is a friendly workplace, and the
second is work that allows me to be creative. So first, like,
if I'm surrounded by mean people or people who are
trying to command and control me and undermine me or
(41:46):
compete with me, that is just an instant no go
for me. I have said more than once at work,
just be nice, and it's amazing how difficult that seems
to be for some people. I also, I just can't
handle places that will force me into a box where
I'm expected to just sit at a cubicle and do
(42:07):
routine work day after day with no sense of purpose.
And I have been in workplaces like this where you're
just expected to sit there and read Excel spreadsheets or
contracts and you don't have any context for what you're reading.
And honestly, like I felt like an idiot when I'm
in those places, like there's some kind of secret language
(42:28):
that I'm just not getting and trying to greet people
and smile and strike up a conversation with people that
didn't work either, because they're just looking at like I'm
some kind of freak, and like why is this person
talking to me? And that's how I felt. And you know,
these types of work environments, they may be great places
(42:48):
to work for SJ types, especially like an ISTJ type,
but these are not the best types of workplaces for me.
You're just not going to get the best apt at
me if you put me in some kind of box
and you don't talk to me and you try to
restrict my creative ideas and my input. And that's why
(43:09):
I think a lot of corporate environments can be tough
places for E NFPs and I NFPs like us Mark.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
You know, like it's oh man, I just I don't
know if you felt me like cringing as you were
as you're talking, and you know.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
For sure because I was cringing.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
And it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
And I know we're coming to the end of the
episode and I want us to, but I just want
to briefly just talk a little bit about what a
missed opportunity we have in our work environments. Like we're
spending eight hours of our day, and some majority of
people more than that. They're not just spending eight hours
of their day, but they're spending three to five other
hours outside of the work like structure in their work task, right,
(43:55):
And we're missing out on an opportunity where we can
actually have people have their strengths and their personality gifts
come out in those areas. Like could you imagine if
everybody was in an area where they had their personalities,
were valued, their personality gifts, they had time and space
to provide those particular gifts to their work environments, how
(44:18):
much more productive we can be, right, And that's the
thing where everybody wants to be productive.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Then why did we.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Spend our time with people doing the things that we
don't want them to do.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Now, this is my intuitive speaking, so I'm sure my
sensors are like, dude.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
We can't do that because that's like it's never been done,
it's impossible to do. But I think there's a way
that we can. I think it's possible for us to
create in work environments where people can bring themselves to
the workplace, and if we're able to get enough people
to do that, we would increase productivity to a point
where I don't know, like everybody's making money. Like I
(44:54):
just I don't know why we have to leave be
in work environments where people spend the majority of their
days doing something they don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Frustrates me.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's ideally, I mean,
that would be great if we can all kind of
divide ourselves up in this way to be more productive.
And yeah, for sure that's going to be tied to
revenue here, and you know it can it's just a
win win for everybody if we could do that. And
(45:22):
you know what, one thing I'm thinking about when you're
talking about that, Mark is maybe some other I n
f P types who might be tuning in, and maybe
you have some thoughts for them in terms of you know,
advice you could give or you know, if they're feeling
burned out or stressed out, how they might deal with that?
What do you what do you think, Mark? What advice
(45:42):
would you give to our I n f P friends
who are tuning in?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I would say, you know, if there's general advice for
any personality type for me, so, regardless of whether or
not you're I in f P type, is bring your
personality type to your job. Like I just want and
off on my soapbox about how the work environment should
fit us, right, but we kind.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Of all know that might be a little bit on realistic.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
You know, if you don't have that opportunity for that
work environment to change, then you change your personal life.
You need to find opportunities within your workday to bring
your personality type to your job. So if you look
at a lot of I in FPS, right, we want
to bring out the best in others. We want to
help them reach their potential. Where in my job can
(46:27):
I bring that strength to the job. How might I
bring value to our team and to the bottom line?
That's the key. If you can show how your strength
can increase the bottom line, your company will allow you
to do more of it. So I need to be thinking,
how do I use my natural strength of bringing people together,
(46:50):
bringing out visionary ideas to the table, and being a
creative problem solver to add value to my company. And
what I will see is the more I bring value
to my company through my personality strengths, my company might
carve out a space for me to use my personality strengths.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
More and pay me for it.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Right, So, even if I don't even get paid more,
these activities will give me more energy and joy to
do the job tax that I really really don't want
to do. So remember, your personality strengths frees you, gives
you energy, and gives you joy, so we should use them.
I've spoken on how the schooling work environment oftentimes stifles
(47:31):
me because it doesn't fit my natural I INFP type,
but I find ways to help students and teachers reach
their potential nonetheless. Right, I'm going to find time for
what I call mister Mathe's life lessons, and any students
who happen to be listening to that, they know that
if they approach it, they're in my class.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
They're going to get life lessons. Right.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
So, you know, I've been a marketing teacher, I've been
a leadership teacher, I've been a pe teacher and I've
always given space and time for mister Mathew's life. Lets
I'm going to find ways to contribute my personality strength
to my job. So that would be my advice to
all find more ways to contribute who you are to
your work.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah yeah, well, said mister Mnthy here. And you know,
as you were mentioning earlier, just finding ways to bring
your personality to work, and just find ways to do that,
even if it's not natural to your type. And as
much as you know, I know we all want to
do this, as much as it is ideal to be
able to bring your full self to work, and as
(48:33):
much as people in these work environments say that's what
they want, it's not always possible for one reason or another.
And you know, I think there's a lot of leaders
out there who say these things, but their behavior doesn't
follow the words that come out of their mouths. And
I'm saying this to leaders because leaders are the ones
(48:54):
who are setting the stage here. And there's some of
us who try very hard to be ourselves and fit
into the workplace, and for whatever reason, it just doesn't
work out, and it leaves us feeling drained. And unappreciated,
and that you know it affects our morale and our productivity,
(49:16):
and it hurts the business ultimately. So I just want
to say this for all the folks who are tuning
in who can relate to this struggle. At some point
you need to prioritize your well being, and maybe that
means finding a different workplace or even a different career path.
I don't want to end, because I know we're starting
to wrap things up. I don't want to end on
a sour note here, but I do want to let
(49:38):
everyone tuning in know that there is hope. There are
people out there who truly do want to see you succeed,
and there are people out there who truly do want
to help.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
I agree with that, right.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
And the thing about it is it's a level of agency, right, Like,
let's switch who's responsible for a happy this instead of
looking at our leaders need to be responsible for our happiness?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Right?
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Or or a manager, why can't they put me in
a better environment? Switch the agency you or you take
the agency right, and then you figure out ways that
you can apply some of these things to your life. Like,
there is hope, people do want to see you succeed.
They may just not know how to do it. But
I think what Myyers brings and this idea of personality
(50:26):
strengths and how you can bring that out into the world.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
What that allows you to do is allow you.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
To take the ownership to they create that and to
to show your leaders how they can create an environment
that best works for you.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
So that way it's a win win for everybody. So
I love that point.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Right and talk about how empowering that is and that
could be. Yeah, And on that note, thank you Mark.
That is a great way to end our episode here
and for the folks tuning in, thank you for staying
with us till the end. We are going to have
more great converse stations like this, so please please please
take a moment to leave us a comment, subscribe, share
(51:06):
this with your friends. You can reach out to me
on a topcreer dot com or on LinkedIn. And with that,
I'm going to say goodbye for now. Stay safe and
be well, folks.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Thanks for tuning in, follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Platform, and please reach out to me on LinkedIn and
on my website at top career dot com for more
updated content. While the Myers Briggs and MBTI R trademarks
of the Meersbriggs Foundation. Viewpoints expressed here are our own
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