December 12, 2023 • 33 mins
Episode 7: Who Am I: SJ Temperaments (ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ). Described as “security seeking”, SJ types are traditional, dependable, and hard-working. They are loyal partners and stable leaders. They perform a lot of thankless jobs that other types take for granted.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you're a fan of the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator,
you've probably heard of temperaments, and if you haven't, no worries.
We'll break it down for you in this episode. Temperament
is one lens through which to view the MBTI. There
are four temperaments identified by doctor David Kersey, and they
spring from two basic dimensions of human behavior, how we
(00:24):
communicate and how we take action, or more simply, what
we say and what we do. And just a quick note,
if you'd like to get in touch, please reach out
to me on a topcreer dot com or on LinkedIn
and let me know you're tuning in to Myers Briggs
Question Corner. I hope you like this episode. Welcome to
(01:02):
the new Myers Briggs Question Corner. I'm Edith Richards and
I'm Mark Mafy, and we're here to answer your questions
about all things personality and all things Myers breaks.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right thing.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey, Mark, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm good Edith. As many of you know, i'm a
high school teacher and I'm back in school. But it's
been really cool to view human interaction. With all this
knowledge of MBTI types, I feel like this knowledge has
really helped me figure out how I can relate with
people and how I can bring value to each person
that I interact with. I love what you mentioned in
(01:59):
the introduction and about understanding the motivations behind what people
say and what they do. So I'm really excited to
dig more into this.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And that brings us to today's episode, which is about
what we call temperaments.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, last episode we went into the in depth descriptions
about the MBTI preferences. Today we're going to put it
all together to determine what your personality type is. Hopefully
the audience was able to determine their preferences what their
preferences were last episode, and are intrigued to figure out
(02:34):
more about what this all means. What does it mean
to be extroverted? What does it mean to be sensing,
feeling and perceiving? What happens when we put all those
things together. That's something that I think we're going to
really really dig intoday and find out a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yes, right, And a quick note to all you folks
who are tuning in. You are the person who knows
yourself best. Only you can determine what your Meyers Briggs
type is. And it's really our hope on this podcast
to get you inspired to learn more and use this
as self understanding so that you can make better decisions
(03:15):
for yourself, that you can communicate better with others, and
just have a greater sense of awareness overall.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
No doubt it if today's a great opportunity to know thyself.
I think one of the greatest gifts you can give
yourself is the knowledge of self, because it empowers you,
It gives you agency and allows you to find the
right fit in life. Like I always tell my students,
know thyself and put thyself in the right fit. I'm
(03:44):
glad we are giving our audience this gift of self
knowledge today.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yep, for sure. And Mark, you know, we've talked a
lot about self awareness in adults, and I think I've
mentioned how many adults have come up to me over
the years after they've learned about their personality types and
they say, you know, I wish I had known this
when I was, you know, like eighteen or twenty years old.
And with you being a high school teacher, I just
(04:11):
want to give a shout out to advocate for our
young people learning more about these topics. There's a lot
of evidence for how improved self awareness is linked to
better academic performance, better stress management, and teamwork and achieving goals.
And at the basis, it's about learning to understand yourself
(04:34):
more clearly, and that just brings more feelings of self
confidence and purpose. And I want to point out that
also there's a lot of negative information about the Myers
Briggs out there, and it really saddens me to read
these articles and hear this rhetoric. A couple of points
about assessment, and this is based on my own stance
(04:55):
as a master practitioner. First, you're a unique individual, a
part from a personality type. So mark you've identified as
an IFP type, that doesn't mean that you have the
same strengths and weaknesses of other IFPs. You're not going
to have the same career path or interest necessarily. And
(05:15):
you know, not everyone fits nice and neatly into the
sixteen Myers Briggs types. Not everyone has a clear preference
on each of the four dichotomies, and that can be
for many different reasons. And third, when I give an assessment,
my role is to help the other person come to
greater self awareness. My purpose isn't to determine accuracy. Only
(05:39):
the person him or herself can determine the best fit type.
Now when I'm talking about out accuracy here, and bear
with me, folks, because I'm just going to go onto
just a little bit of a sick box here. There's
a lot of talk about how inaccurate this assessment is.
So let's remember that there's a lot of fake personality
tests online and anybody can take those, and those shouldn't
(06:02):
be confused with the real Meyers Briggs assessment, which can
only be taken through a practitioner. However, and this is
one unfortunate thing about the MBTI, anyone with a master's
degree or graduate work in statistics can purchase the assessment
through the Meyers Briggs Foundation. So not only is it
possible to have people who aren't familiar with the assessment
(06:25):
administering it, they're not always giving a you know what
I would call a proper overview or relating it to
the recipient in a way that person can hear. To
be a true practitioner, you have to go through a
certification process and learn the science behind it. Now back
to the inaccurate results, here. When people talk about this,
(06:48):
they're often referring to reliability or validity. Reliability means how
consistently the assessment measures what it intends to measure. If
it's reliable, it's going to produce consistent results, and this
is measured through reliability coefficients. Assessments that produce reliability coefficients
of eighty meaning it's eighty percent consistent are generally respected
(07:11):
in the field of psychology, and the Myers Briggs consistently
produces reliability factors above eighty percent. So with that said,
measurement error is a problem for psychometrics for all psychometrics,
and no assessment is going to produce perfect test retest reliability,
So a lot of reliability is associated with taking these
(07:33):
fake versions of the MBTI that I previously mentioned. Now
talking about the validity of the assessment, this refers to
accuracy and the degree to which the theory supports the scoring.
So it's important to note here that the Myers Briggs
was never intended to be a comprehensive evaluation of someone's personality. So,
(07:58):
like we mentioned before, if you're an INFP type, you're
not the same on all dimensions as other INFP types.
There's a lot more to your personality than the Myers
Briggs measures. The Myers Briggs or any other personality assessment
for that matter, aren't inherently valid or invalid, only the
(08:19):
interpretations made from the data are. So. Again, this is
why it's important to have a certified administrator explain the
limitations of the assessment. And every assessment has limitations. One
of the big ones is that it doesn't predict real
world outcomes. So let me say emphatically that the Myers
(08:40):
Briggs is not, nor was it ever meant to be predictive.
It's descriptive. It doesn't to tell us what career or
workplace or relationship will be the most satisfying. And unfortunately
it's often misused, for example, screening applicants for a Ye,
(09:00):
that's one that really kind of grinds my gears a bit,
and it should never be used for this purpose because
it doesn't measure ability. It's intended to be used to
have a conversation that will lead to better self awareness,
self management, communication and things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Absolutely, I mean so well said, and I'm so glad
that we have a MBTI practitioner on here so that
way we can kind of look into some of this
with some depth and have an idea that some of
the information might be valid and reliable, because one of
the things that you mentioned is not inherently like the
assessment is not inherently reliable or valid. It's the interpretation, right,
(09:41):
And that's why you need to have that practitioner to
help you and determine that. But what I really love
is what you said at the end is like, these
are conversations that we're having that should lead to more
self awareness self management. The information we are providing in
this podcast is a means for that greater self awareness,
And like you shouldn't use the information to pigeonholes someone
(10:03):
or type cast them, or even use it as a
directive of like how you should live your life. It's
just information to help you learn more about yourself, right,
And I think if this information can be used to
promote greater self awareness, that it's going to lead to
greater self management, communication and relationship building. So I think
it's important. I love how you mentioned all this that
(10:25):
it's important that we don't get into this human tendency
to want to be lazy and typecast, but we use
as an information to just continue to gather more information
to help us make better decisions, help us in our communication,
help us in how we build relationships and manage ourselves
better in that type of situation. So all right, I
(10:48):
love how we came with that information as to really
help people understand as they're going through this information. But
let's really really get into it. What we're going to
do on this episode, audience is if it's one of these,
describe each MBTI personality type. It will be a brief
description of the type, because we have sixteen types to
go over.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yep, that's great, Mark, So let's start and jump right
into this. But before we do, let's talk about temperament.
There are four temperaments SJSP, NT, n F, and this
refers to Kirc's temperaments on how we receive information and
how we take action based on the information we receive.
(11:31):
So communication and action are keywords here. So first communication,
people are going to naturally talk about and think about
what they're interested in. So if you tune in carefully,
you'll notice that there are two broad based areas or
subject matters, concrete and abstract, and these are essentially S
(11:57):
and N sensing an intuition on the Meyers breaks concrete
refers to subject matter first, that is our everyday reality,
so facts and figures and real time information. Anything you
can see here, taste, touch, or smell. So let's think
about things like work, hobbies, home, family, news, sports, the weather,
(12:21):
whatever is happening here and now. And then we have
the abstract folks. So these people talk primarily about ideas, theories,
what's going to happen in the future, believes fantasies, all
of life's what ifs now. The second letter is going
(12:42):
to refer to action, so we're all trying to accomplish
our goals. And if you watch people closely, there are
two fundamentally different types of action, cooperative and utilitarian. People
who act primarily in a cooperative manner follow a socially
acceptable way of doing things. They try to do the
(13:06):
right thing, they follow social rules, etc. People who act
primarily in a utilitarian manner are pragmatic, they get results,
they're efficient and effective. So these four temperaments are based
on the two letters they share in common with their
Meyers Briggs type indicator. And again there are four temperaments sjsp, NT,
(13:31):
and NF. So if we take a deep dive into
all of these mark It's going to make for a
very long episode. So I'm going to suggest today we're
going to focus on our s J friends. What do
you think about that?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think that's great and I think our audience is
loving us for that. They're like, we have sixteen of
these type personality types and we're going to do this
all through this episode. I definitely love the idea of
Joe focusing on the SJ friends that we have. And boy,
I do love that breakdown that you just made of
the Meyers brig types into their temperament categories. So instead
(14:11):
of looking at all sixteen, how can we divide those
sixteen into smaller categories? And I think that there's four
of them. I think that's so efficient. And it's like
these MBTI personality types are perfectly separated by these temperaments.
Like you've got like these four families, right, So you
got the SJ family, like you mentioned, the SP family
(14:33):
and the NT family and then the n F family,
and each MBTI personality type within that family is kind
of related to each other. So if you're an SJ,
you kind of you know, you might be an introvert
or an extrovert but you kind of related within that family,
so definitely love that. Before we do get into this
deep dive of the SJS, I wanted to express how
(14:55):
awesome your explanation of temperament was. It really helps me
simplify things when it comes to our human experience. What
you're really saying is life really comes down to how
we receive information and how we act when we receive
that information. But like you talked about before, taking information
through sensing or intuition is not the only way that
(15:17):
you can take in information. But this does provide us
with some useful information for self awareness. Acting in a
utilitarian or cooperative manner is not the only way we
can act, but boy does it give us some useful information.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, for sure. And Mark, I really like what you
said there about the families. That's a great analogy for temperaments.
So taking a quick look at SJ types. So these are,
and this is Kress doctor David Keirsey's words here, known
as the guardians. They're the guardians of tradition. They're committed
(15:55):
to duty and they tend to engage in service jobs
and activity. They make sacrifices, they volunteer, and they're very loyal,
They're consistent. They need to have their environments sorted out
before they can jump into anything fun, so work before play.
(16:16):
They are not likely to enjoy change they are. They
are also the most common of the four temperaments. So
these are is STJ, is FJ, E STJ, and ESFJ.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Boy, these these I've mentioned this before, but these sj's
are always individuals I want in my group because they
are consistent, they're organized, they're focused, and they're detail oriented.
I don't have those attributes, right, so I love that
they don't. They don't procrastinate, they can't work done, and
are productive. Like if I'm looking for a group, I'm
(16:56):
looking for an SJ. So I love that. Now I
might get frust them because they're so different than me,
but boy, do I need them in my life.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I'm the same way. I very much appreciate my
SJ friends. So let's take a look at ISTJ first.
So this is one of the most common Myers Briggs
type sporteen to nineteen percent of the population. Istjs like
to carefully plan things out in advance. They are well organized,
(17:28):
like you said, very detail oriented. They follow an established
set of rules, and they are not likely to veer
off the path that they've set. They're logical, they follow procedures,
they're dependable, they're trustworthy. They can also be stubborn. They
may be seen as cold and insensitive because they're direct,
(17:50):
they're very honest, and sometimes they're blunt. They also tend
to be heavy hitters in the self blame category because
they are so responsible and hard working. If things don't
go right, they're going to blame themselves. At their core,
they're very devoted friends and partners. They need to order
(18:12):
in their lives, so they're going to gravitate towards work
that has clearly defined schedules and assignments, careers that require
structure and perseverance and accuracy and stability, and also a
respect for rules and tradition. Istjs strive for perfection. So
(18:33):
let's think military politics, police officers, and then also let's
think about work that requires a lot of detail, like
accounting or a librarian or a surgeon or a detective.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Can you provide some examples of istj's in popular culture?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Sure? Just a disclaimer though this is my own thought,
it's not verified, but i'd say George Washington, a number
of politicians actually the first George Bush, maybe Dwight Eisenhower,
maybe even Mitch McConnell, a number of military generals and admirals.
We're not going to find as many ISTJ actors or
(19:14):
musicians as with other types simply because of their nature.
But there are a few, and you can google them.
But again, this may not be accurate. I've even seen
Barack Obama typed as an ISTJ, and I'm not sure
I agree with that one, but again I don't know
for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I love that. Love how you mentioned again how
a lot of times we gravitate to certain career types
based off what our personality type. You know, what we
have as our personality type. And you see a lot
of individuals who you say, you won't necessarily find an
actor who's an ISTJ just because they maybe don't gravitate
to that. So I do love that in general. So
(19:55):
all right, let's talk about our isfjs. Are they very
similar to isdjs?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah? Yeah, So both are going to be logical organized,
striving for order, disliking change. They're going to be also
detail oriented. The difference with the ISFJ is that they're
going to base their decisions on harmony, and other people's
emotional well being, while istjs may dismiss people's feelings in
(20:24):
order to get things done, So isfjs are more likely
to sacrifice effectiveness and efficiency in order to deserve people's feelings,
at least people they care about. As with most feeling types,
if you do a feeler wrong, watch out. They are
(20:46):
vindictive and unforgiving. Or they can be vindictive and unforgiving,
and this is especially true for an ISFJ type. Isfjs
have also been accused of being dormat because of their
self sacrificing nature. They have a strong appreciation for the
(21:07):
emotional value of traditions, and they may cling to things
with a sentimental value.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Love it, love it. So let me say if I
get this right, So you're saying that the isfjs and
istjs are similar in their affinity to get things done,
be loyal. They're both detail oriented and love structure and order.
But isfj's values other people's well being and their decisions.
(21:33):
Thus they appear to be more caring and understanding. So
I'll definitely love that. So, like who would be some
famous is fjs?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Let me just specify this. I think isfj's are going
to prioritize other people's well being into their decision making
process more than an ISTJ type would do. But when
I'm thinking about a famous is FJ, I immediately think
of Teresa. She worked tirelessly for her causes and she
(22:04):
didn't ask for any notoriety. She didn't really seek out
the spotlight. And this is very typical of an ISFJ
type because they're the glues that hold organizations and teams together.
These are the folks who work behind the scenes to
make sure that everything's in order and that people are
(22:25):
taken care of and they're happy. They tend to keep
their own thoughts and values to themselves a lot of
the time, but they do have an outward focus on
the needs of others and they observe a lot. But
they don't usually share their observations or feelings except with
their loved ones. But this doesn't mean that they don't
(22:47):
have feelings. They feel very strongly.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That makes sense. That does make sense, all right, So
let's let's talk about our extroverted as jays. Let's start
with the EJ. Give information about.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Them, okay, yes, eestjs. They also represent tradition and order.
These are known as the executives on the sixteen Personalities website,
and I think that is a great descriptor. We often
see ESTJs in leadership roles. They are happy to lead
(23:22):
the way, they delegate responsibilities, they organize people and processes,
and they tend to be dedicated and hard working. They
are very strong believers in rules and law. They lead
by example, and they expect a lot from their people.
They believe that if you say that you're going to
(23:43):
do something, you'd better do it. They are strong willed,
they're direct, they enjoy creating order, and they have a
clear set of standards that they follow. They are also
known for being inflexible and judgmental. If you are not
pulling your weight, the ESTJ is gonna let you know
(24:04):
very directly, because it's because they at the end of
the day, they believe it's their duty to make things right.
They may also be focused on social status, especially what's
visible to them like rank or position, and they may
place a lot of emphasis on this at the expense
of things that aren't always visible, like ideas and unspoken hierarchies.
(24:30):
They thrive in organizations with a hierarchical structure, so places
like the military, government, the police force, and they have
a natural drive to be in charge. They are loyal,
they're dedicated, and they don't appreciate people who don't measure
up or people who simply lead a different kind of life.
(24:53):
And as a result, they may appear uncaring or they may,
in some extreme cases come across as a bully. Also
struggle to see the long term implications of their behavior.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And if I think you just describe one of my
good friends and be listening to this, he knows exactly
what I'm talking about. I mean, this describes him perfectly.
But I love his leadership ability. A lot of times
he'll say, you know, you I are a lot off,
which we are, Like we do share some things that
are some very personality traits. But I would always tell
(25:26):
him like, hey, like, but I come off a little
bit more caring you do and understanding. And he's like, yeah,
I don't care, like just things need to get done
in a certain fashion and that sort of thing. So
I just it's funny how understanding the personality types, I
understand that person more and then I'm able to you know,
(25:48):
direct my behavior differently or or just give me a
little bit more information and how I should relate with him.
So that we have a good relationship, and I think
it really works out that way. And I'm seeing a
lot of in my life, and I feel like a
lot of the commonalities that these sjs share is that
they're highly driven, they're highly structured, they're hard working, they're
(26:11):
focused on getting things done. And I think a lot
of times these ESTJs are just an extroverted version of
those characteristics, and that's why they might see very assertive,
strong willed, and very direct.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Mm hmm, yeah, yep. When I think of an ESTJ,
I think about a lot of people I work with
every day, and in terms of famous people, I think
of Judge Judy. And the reason I think this is
that she's very adamant about the law and following the rules.
(26:45):
She is not interested in hearing people sob stories. She
focuses strictly on the law. She makes pretty quick decisions,
and I also see her as fair and impartial, and
she is very clearly the one who's in charge.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, what a great example like that? That is a
perfect example, like I could just right like when you
mentioned her, I'm like, yeah, that's exactly fits the descriptions
to the t, no doubt about that. So how do
our feelers impact our extroverted sjs are They like to
get it done in productive ESTJs, but they are coming
(27:23):
to it from a more caring and empathic level and
really making decisions that benefit other people.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, let's take a look at our ESFJs. So they
they share many of the characteristics of ESTJs. They're organized,
their strong will, they're loyal, they like their order, and
they can also be inflexible. The big difference is that
esfj's focus on people's emotions and may instantly absorb people's
(27:53):
emotions as they're happening, so much so that they may
take them on as their own. They also base their
decisions primarily on how they will affect others, So I'd
say esfj's also tend to be more sociable than ESTJs.
ESTJs tend to be content with just a few personal
(28:17):
connections at least a lot of eestjs I know, But
ESFJs tend to be the hosts and hostesses, and they
thrive when they're helping others. They fill the calendars with
all kinds of social events. I have a good girlfriend
who's a ESFJ, and she plans her social calendar months
(28:38):
in advance and she color codes her closet too, And
I personally, I just can't really wrap my head around
that one because just the thought of doing it causes
me a lot of stress.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Absolutely. I mean, audience, I know you know of individuals
that fit this particular personality type, but are there any
face with people that we might be able to identify
as an ESFJ.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So famous people who are ESFJs. I know Hugh Jackman
has been typed as an ESFJ, and I'm going to
agree with this, at least at first glance, at least
to me, he seems very warm and empathetic in interviews.
Clearly he's an extrovert, he has natural social skills. And
(29:25):
I'm also going to mention Steve Harvey too. He's a
very social guy. He tries to understand people on a
personal level. He seems really down to earth, at least
that's my perception. We actually also see a lot of
famous actors and performers who are ESFJs. They're going to
(29:46):
gravitate towards these fields, a lot of them, but we
also see them in roles behind the scenes providing support
and organization, so things like a choreographer or a designer.
We also see them in business in careers like an
HR manager or an office manager or a bookkeeper. And
(30:08):
then we see them in the medical field, in nursing
or in education, especially as an elementary school teacher. So
their heart bound by a set of rules and duties,
but they're also very skilled at social interactions and they're
going to thrive in work environments with a set of
(30:30):
standard operating procedures and a clear code of conduct.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
That's great, that's great. I feel that's the SJ family, right.
You know, when we talked about this episode, we knew
that we were going to need multiple episodes to get
through all sixteen types. But I really am really excited
about how we decided to go about it by breaking
up it and breaking this up into families, because I
think it allows us to understand our typing in greater
(30:58):
depth when we're able to look at the temperaments too
as well. So yeah, so I'm really really thankful, and
if I'm really really excited about how you were able
to give each person just a really quick explanation of
their type, because I know that people were tired of
me always talking about my I in f P personality
type all the time, and they were probably thinking like
(31:19):
when we're going to get to me, like what am
I like? That sort of stuff, And that's why we
decided to talk about the preferences so that we have
an idea of what, you know, what preference you might have.
We talked about the temperaments to get you a little
bit understanding how you can group your types into different
families so that way you can understand what your individual
(31:41):
personality type can be in Like we said at the
very very beginning, this is not the type cast to
you and say, well, every I in FP is going
to be exactly the same, every esfj's going to be
exactly the same. We're all different, we are all unique.
This is all information to help us gain self awinn
or some ourselves so that way we can communicate better,
(32:02):
build better relationship, and essentially make better decisions for ourselves.
I know, for me, it's helped me greatly by knowing
what my personality type, knowing what other people's personalities types
in my interaction with them, and it's really greatly impacted
and really helped me in my life.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah. Yeah, well I'm so glad to hear that mark.
And you know, yeah, there are sixteen different personality types,
and of course, as an I NFP mark, you're one
of the rare ones. But yes, it does take some
time to go through all of these types, which is
why we're going to dedicate a few episodes to discussing them.
But hey, folks, we really appreciate you staying with us
(32:41):
here until the end. Next time, we're going to take
a deeper dive into the sp the sensing perceiving types.
So with that, I am going to wrap things up
with just a quick reminder. If you liked this episode,
please share it on social media, give us a like
or a positive comment so we can continue bringing you
(33:05):
great content like this. Thanks everyone, until next time.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Thanks for tuning in, follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And please reach out to me on LinkedIn and on
my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myersgriggs and MVTI R trademarks of the Meyersbriggs
Foundation viewpoints expressed here are our own
If you're a fan of the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator,
you've probably heard of temperaments, and if you haven't, no worries.
We'll break it down for you in this episode. Temperament
is one lens through which to view the MBTI. There
are four temperaments identified by doctor David Kersey, and they
spring from two basic dimensions of human behavior, how we
(00:24):
communicate and how we take action, or more simply, what
we say and what we do. And just a quick note,
if you'd like to get in touch, please reach out
to me on a topcreer dot com or on LinkedIn
and let me know you're tuning in to Myers Briggs
Question Corner. I hope you like this episode. Welcome to
(01:02):
the new Myers Briggs Question Corner. I'm Edith Richards and
I'm Mark Mafy, and we're here to answer your questions
about all things personality and all things Myers breaks.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
From college to careers to relationships. Personality is the key
to finding the right thing.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey, Mark, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm good Edith. As many of you know, i'm a
high school teacher and I'm back in school. But it's
been really cool to view human interaction. With all this
knowledge of MBTI types, I feel like this knowledge has
really helped me figure out how I can relate with
people and how I can bring value to each person
that I interact with. I love what you mentioned in
(01:59):
the introduction and about understanding the motivations behind what people
say and what they do. So I'm really excited to
dig more into this.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And that brings us to today's episode, which is about
what we call temperaments.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, last episode we went into the in depth descriptions
about the MBTI preferences. Today we're going to put it
all together to determine what your personality type is. Hopefully
the audience was able to determine their preferences what their
preferences were last episode, and are intrigued to figure out
(02:34):
more about what this all means. What does it mean
to be extroverted? What does it mean to be sensing,
feeling and perceiving? What happens when we put all those
things together. That's something that I think we're going to
really really dig intoday and find out a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yes, right, And a quick note to all you folks
who are tuning in. You are the person who knows
yourself best. Only you can determine what your Meyers Briggs
type is. And it's really our hope on this podcast
to get you inspired to learn more and use this
as self understanding so that you can make better decisions
(03:15):
for yourself, that you can communicate better with others, and
just have a greater sense of awareness overall.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
No doubt it if today's a great opportunity to know thyself.
I think one of the greatest gifts you can give
yourself is the knowledge of self, because it empowers you,
It gives you agency and allows you to find the
right fit in life. Like I always tell my students,
know thyself and put thyself in the right fit. I'm
(03:44):
glad we are giving our audience this gift of self
knowledge today.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yep, for sure. And Mark, you know, we've talked a
lot about self awareness in adults, and I think I've
mentioned how many adults have come up to me over
the years after they've learned about their personality types and
they say, you know, I wish I had known this
when I was, you know, like eighteen or twenty years old.
And with you being a high school teacher, I just
(04:11):
want to give a shout out to advocate for our
young people learning more about these topics. There's a lot
of evidence for how improved self awareness is linked to
better academic performance, better stress management, and teamwork and achieving goals.
And at the basis, it's about learning to understand yourself
(04:34):
more clearly, and that just brings more feelings of self
confidence and purpose. And I want to point out that
also there's a lot of negative information about the Myers
Briggs out there, and it really saddens me to read
these articles and hear this rhetoric. A couple of points
about assessment, and this is based on my own stance
(04:55):
as a master practitioner. First, you're a unique individual, a
part from a personality type. So mark you've identified as
an IFP type, that doesn't mean that you have the
same strengths and weaknesses of other IFPs. You're not going
to have the same career path or interest necessarily. And
(05:15):
you know, not everyone fits nice and neatly into the
sixteen Myers Briggs types. Not everyone has a clear preference
on each of the four dichotomies, and that can be
for many different reasons. And third, when I give an assessment,
my role is to help the other person come to
greater self awareness. My purpose isn't to determine accuracy. Only
(05:39):
the person him or herself can determine the best fit type.
Now when I'm talking about out accuracy here, and bear
with me, folks, because I'm just going to go onto
just a little bit of a sick box here. There's
a lot of talk about how inaccurate this assessment is.
So let's remember that there's a lot of fake personality
tests online and anybody can take those, and those shouldn't
(06:02):
be confused with the real Meyers Briggs assessment, which can
only be taken through a practitioner. However, and this is
one unfortunate thing about the MBTI, anyone with a master's
degree or graduate work in statistics can purchase the assessment
through the Meyers Briggs Foundation. So not only is it
possible to have people who aren't familiar with the assessment
(06:25):
administering it, they're not always giving a you know what
I would call a proper overview or relating it to
the recipient in a way that person can hear. To
be a true practitioner, you have to go through a
certification process and learn the science behind it. Now back
to the inaccurate results, here. When people talk about this,
(06:48):
they're often referring to reliability or validity. Reliability means how
consistently the assessment measures what it intends to measure. If
it's reliable, it's going to produce consistent results, and this
is measured through reliability coefficients. Assessments that produce reliability coefficients
of eighty meaning it's eighty percent consistent are generally respected
(07:11):
in the field of psychology, and the Myers Briggs consistently
produces reliability factors above eighty percent. So with that said,
measurement error is a problem for psychometrics for all psychometrics,
and no assessment is going to produce perfect test retest reliability,
So a lot of reliability is associated with taking these
(07:33):
fake versions of the MBTI that I previously mentioned. Now
talking about the validity of the assessment, this refers to
accuracy and the degree to which the theory supports the scoring.
So it's important to note here that the Myers Briggs
was never intended to be a comprehensive evaluation of someone's personality. So,
(07:58):
like we mentioned before, if you're an INFP type, you're
not the same on all dimensions as other INFP types.
There's a lot more to your personality than the Myers
Briggs measures. The Myers Briggs or any other personality assessment
for that matter, aren't inherently valid or invalid, only the
(08:19):
interpretations made from the data are. So. Again, this is
why it's important to have a certified administrator explain the
limitations of the assessment. And every assessment has limitations. One
of the big ones is that it doesn't predict real
world outcomes. So let me say emphatically that the Myers
(08:40):
Briggs is not, nor was it ever meant to be predictive.
It's descriptive. It doesn't to tell us what career or
workplace or relationship will be the most satisfying. And unfortunately
it's often misused, for example, screening applicants for a Ye,
(09:00):
that's one that really kind of grinds my gears a bit,
and it should never be used for this purpose because
it doesn't measure ability. It's intended to be used to
have a conversation that will lead to better self awareness,
self management, communication and things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Absolutely, I mean so well said, and I'm so glad
that we have a MBTI practitioner on here so that
way we can kind of look into some of this
with some depth and have an idea that some of
the information might be valid and reliable, because one of
the things that you mentioned is not inherently like the
assessment is not inherently reliable or valid. It's the interpretation, right,
(09:41):
And that's why you need to have that practitioner to
help you and determine that. But what I really love
is what you said at the end is like, these
are conversations that we're having that should lead to more
self awareness self management. The information we are providing in
this podcast is a means for that greater self awareness,
And like you shouldn't use the information to pigeonholes someone
(10:03):
or type cast them, or even use it as a
directive of like how you should live your life. It's
just information to help you learn more about yourself, right,
And I think if this information can be used to
promote greater self awareness, that it's going to lead to
greater self management, communication and relationship building. So I think
it's important. I love how you mentioned all this that
(10:25):
it's important that we don't get into this human tendency
to want to be lazy and typecast, but we use
as an information to just continue to gather more information
to help us make better decisions, help us in our communication,
help us in how we build relationships and manage ourselves
better in that type of situation. So all right, I
(10:48):
love how we came with that information as to really
help people understand as they're going through this information. But
let's really really get into it. What we're going to
do on this episode, audience is if it's one of these,
describe each MBTI personality type. It will be a brief
description of the type, because we have sixteen types to
go over.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yep, that's great, Mark, So let's start and jump right
into this. But before we do, let's talk about temperament.
There are four temperaments SJSP, NT, n F, and this
refers to Kirc's temperaments on how we receive information and
how we take action based on the information we receive.
(11:31):
So communication and action are keywords here. So first communication,
people are going to naturally talk about and think about
what they're interested in. So if you tune in carefully,
you'll notice that there are two broad based areas or
subject matters, concrete and abstract, and these are essentially S
(11:57):
and N sensing an intuition on the Meyers breaks concrete
refers to subject matter first, that is our everyday reality,
so facts and figures and real time information. Anything you
can see here, taste, touch, or smell. So let's think
about things like work, hobbies, home, family, news, sports, the weather,
(12:21):
whatever is happening here and now. And then we have
the abstract folks. So these people talk primarily about ideas, theories,
what's going to happen in the future, believes fantasies, all
of life's what ifs now. The second letter is going
(12:42):
to refer to action, so we're all trying to accomplish
our goals. And if you watch people closely, there are
two fundamentally different types of action, cooperative and utilitarian. People
who act primarily in a cooperative manner follow a socially
acceptable way of doing things. They try to do the
(13:06):
right thing, they follow social rules, etc. People who act
primarily in a utilitarian manner are pragmatic, they get results,
they're efficient and effective. So these four temperaments are based
on the two letters they share in common with their
Meyers Briggs type indicator. And again there are four temperaments sjsp, NT,
(13:31):
and NF. So if we take a deep dive into
all of these mark It's going to make for a
very long episode. So I'm going to suggest today we're
going to focus on our s J friends. What do
you think about that?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think that's great and I think our audience is
loving us for that. They're like, we have sixteen of
these type personality types and we're going to do this
all through this episode. I definitely love the idea of
Joe focusing on the SJ friends that we have. And boy,
I do love that breakdown that you just made of
the Meyers brig types into their temperament categories. So instead
(14:11):
of looking at all sixteen, how can we divide those
sixteen into smaller categories? And I think that there's four
of them. I think that's so efficient. And it's like
these MBTI personality types are perfectly separated by these temperaments.
Like you've got like these four families, right, So you
got the SJ family, like you mentioned, the SP family
(14:33):
and the NT family and then the n F family,
and each MBTI personality type within that family is kind
of related to each other. So if you're an SJ,
you kind of you know, you might be an introvert
or an extrovert but you kind of related within that family,
so definitely love that. Before we do get into this
deep dive of the SJS, I wanted to express how
(14:55):
awesome your explanation of temperament was. It really helps me
simplify things when it comes to our human experience. What
you're really saying is life really comes down to how
we receive information and how we act when we receive
that information. But like you talked about before, taking information
through sensing or intuition is not the only way that
(15:17):
you can take in information. But this does provide us
with some useful information for self awareness. Acting in a
utilitarian or cooperative manner is not the only way we
can act, but boy does it give us some useful information.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, for sure. And Mark, I really like what you
said there about the families. That's a great analogy for temperaments.
So taking a quick look at SJ types. So these are,
and this is Kress doctor David Keirsey's words here, known
as the guardians. They're the guardians of tradition. They're committed
(15:55):
to duty and they tend to engage in service jobs
and activity. They make sacrifices, they volunteer, and they're very loyal,
They're consistent. They need to have their environments sorted out
before they can jump into anything fun, so work before play.
(16:16):
They are not likely to enjoy change they are. They
are also the most common of the four temperaments. So
these are is STJ, is FJ, E STJ, and ESFJ.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Boy, these these I've mentioned this before, but these sj's
are always individuals I want in my group because they
are consistent, they're organized, they're focused, and they're detail oriented.
I don't have those attributes, right, so I love that
they don't. They don't procrastinate, they can't work done, and
are productive. Like if I'm looking for a group, I'm
(16:56):
looking for an SJ. So I love that. Now I
might get frust them because they're so different than me,
but boy, do I need them in my life.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I'm the same way. I very much appreciate my
SJ friends. So let's take a look at ISTJ first.
So this is one of the most common Myers Briggs
type sporteen to nineteen percent of the population. Istjs like
to carefully plan things out in advance. They are well organized,
(17:28):
like you said, very detail oriented. They follow an established
set of rules, and they are not likely to veer
off the path that they've set. They're logical, they follow procedures,
they're dependable, they're trustworthy. They can also be stubborn. They
may be seen as cold and insensitive because they're direct,
(17:50):
they're very honest, and sometimes they're blunt. They also tend
to be heavy hitters in the self blame category because
they are so responsible and hard working. If things don't
go right, they're going to blame themselves. At their core,
they're very devoted friends and partners. They need to order
(18:12):
in their lives, so they're going to gravitate towards work
that has clearly defined schedules and assignments, careers that require
structure and perseverance and accuracy and stability, and also a
respect for rules and tradition. Istjs strive for perfection. So
(18:33):
let's think military politics, police officers, and then also let's
think about work that requires a lot of detail, like
accounting or a librarian or a surgeon or a detective.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Can you provide some examples of istj's in popular culture?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Sure? Just a disclaimer though this is my own thought,
it's not verified, but i'd say George Washington, a number
of politicians actually the first George Bush, maybe Dwight Eisenhower,
maybe even Mitch McConnell, a number of military generals and admirals.
We're not going to find as many ISTJ actors or
(19:14):
musicians as with other types simply because of their nature.
But there are a few, and you can google them.
But again, this may not be accurate. I've even seen
Barack Obama typed as an ISTJ, and I'm not sure
I agree with that one, but again I don't know
for sure.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, I love that. Love how you mentioned again how
a lot of times we gravitate to certain career types
based off what our personality type. You know, what we
have as our personality type. And you see a lot
of individuals who you say, you won't necessarily find an
actor who's an ISTJ just because they maybe don't gravitate
to that. So I do love that in general. So
(19:55):
all right, let's talk about our isfjs. Are they very
similar to isdjs?
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yeah? Yeah, So both are going to be logical organized,
striving for order, disliking change. They're going to be also
detail oriented. The difference with the ISFJ is that they're
going to base their decisions on harmony, and other people's
emotional well being, while istjs may dismiss people's feelings in
(20:24):
order to get things done, So isfjs are more likely
to sacrifice effectiveness and efficiency in order to deserve people's feelings,
at least people they care about. As with most feeling types,
if you do a feeler wrong, watch out. They are
(20:46):
vindictive and unforgiving. Or they can be vindictive and unforgiving,
and this is especially true for an ISFJ type. Isfjs
have also been accused of being dormat because of their
self sacrificing nature. They have a strong appreciation for the
(21:07):
emotional value of traditions, and they may cling to things
with a sentimental value.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Love it, love it. So let me say if I
get this right, So you're saying that the isfjs and
istjs are similar in their affinity to get things done,
be loyal. They're both detail oriented and love structure and order.
But isfj's values other people's well being and their decisions.
(21:33):
Thus they appear to be more caring and understanding. So
I'll definitely love that. So, like who would be some
famous is fjs?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Let me just specify this. I think isfj's are going
to prioritize other people's well being into their decision making
process more than an ISTJ type would do. But when
I'm thinking about a famous is FJ, I immediately think
of Teresa. She worked tirelessly for her causes and she
(22:04):
didn't ask for any notoriety. She didn't really seek out
the spotlight. And this is very typical of an ISFJ
type because they're the glues that hold organizations and teams together.
These are the folks who work behind the scenes to
make sure that everything's in order and that people are
(22:25):
taken care of and they're happy. They tend to keep
their own thoughts and values to themselves a lot of
the time, but they do have an outward focus on
the needs of others and they observe a lot. But
they don't usually share their observations or feelings except with
their loved ones. But this doesn't mean that they don't
(22:47):
have feelings. They feel very strongly.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That makes sense. That does make sense, all right, So
let's let's talk about our extroverted as jays. Let's start
with the EJ. Give information about.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Them, okay, yes, eestjs. They also represent tradition and order.
These are known as the executives on the sixteen Personalities website,
and I think that is a great descriptor. We often
see ESTJs in leadership roles. They are happy to lead
(23:22):
the way, they delegate responsibilities, they organize people and processes,
and they tend to be dedicated and hard working. They
are very strong believers in rules and law. They lead
by example, and they expect a lot from their people.
They believe that if you say that you're going to
(23:43):
do something, you'd better do it. They are strong willed,
they're direct, they enjoy creating order, and they have a
clear set of standards that they follow. They are also
known for being inflexible and judgmental. If you are not
pulling your weight, the ESTJ is gonna let you know
(24:04):
very directly, because it's because they at the end of
the day, they believe it's their duty to make things right.
They may also be focused on social status, especially what's
visible to them like rank or position, and they may
place a lot of emphasis on this at the expense
of things that aren't always visible, like ideas and unspoken hierarchies.
(24:30):
They thrive in organizations with a hierarchical structure, so places
like the military, government, the police force, and they have
a natural drive to be in charge. They are loyal,
they're dedicated, and they don't appreciate people who don't measure
up or people who simply lead a different kind of life.
(24:53):
And as a result, they may appear uncaring or they may,
in some extreme cases come across as a bully. Also
struggle to see the long term implications of their behavior.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And if I think you just describe one of my
good friends and be listening to this, he knows exactly
what I'm talking about. I mean, this describes him perfectly.
But I love his leadership ability. A lot of times
he'll say, you know, you I are a lot off,
which we are, Like we do share some things that
are some very personality traits. But I would always tell
(25:26):
him like, hey, like, but I come off a little
bit more caring you do and understanding. And he's like, yeah,
I don't care, like just things need to get done
in a certain fashion and that sort of thing. So
I just it's funny how understanding the personality types, I
understand that person more and then I'm able to you know,
(25:48):
direct my behavior differently or or just give me a
little bit more information and how I should relate with him.
So that we have a good relationship, and I think
it really works out that way. And I'm seeing a
lot of in my life, and I feel like a
lot of the commonalities that these sjs share is that
they're highly driven, they're highly structured, they're hard working, they're
(26:11):
focused on getting things done. And I think a lot
of times these ESTJs are just an extroverted version of
those characteristics, and that's why they might see very assertive,
strong willed, and very direct.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Mm hmm, yeah, yep. When I think of an ESTJ,
I think about a lot of people I work with
every day, and in terms of famous people, I think
of Judge Judy. And the reason I think this is
that she's very adamant about the law and following the rules.
(26:45):
She is not interested in hearing people sob stories. She
focuses strictly on the law. She makes pretty quick decisions,
and I also see her as fair and impartial, and
she is very clearly the one who's in charge.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, what a great example like that? That is a
perfect example, like I could just right like when you
mentioned her, I'm like, yeah, that's exactly fits the descriptions
to the t, no doubt about that. So how do
our feelers impact our extroverted sjs are They like to
get it done in productive ESTJs, but they are coming
(27:23):
to it from a more caring and empathic level and
really making decisions that benefit other people.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, let's take a look at our ESFJs. So they
they share many of the characteristics of ESTJs. They're organized,
their strong will, they're loyal, they like their order, and
they can also be inflexible. The big difference is that
esfj's focus on people's emotions and may instantly absorb people's
(27:53):
emotions as they're happening, so much so that they may
take them on as their own. They also base their
decisions primarily on how they will affect others, So I'd
say esfj's also tend to be more sociable than ESTJs.
ESTJs tend to be content with just a few personal
(28:17):
connections at least a lot of eestjs I know, But
ESFJs tend to be the hosts and hostesses, and they
thrive when they're helping others. They fill the calendars with
all kinds of social events. I have a good girlfriend
who's a ESFJ, and she plans her social calendar months
(28:38):
in advance and she color codes her closet too, And
I personally, I just can't really wrap my head around
that one because just the thought of doing it causes
me a lot of stress.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Absolutely. I mean, audience, I know you know of individuals
that fit this particular personality type, but are there any
face with people that we might be able to identify
as an ESFJ.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So famous people who are ESFJs. I know Hugh Jackman
has been typed as an ESFJ, and I'm going to
agree with this, at least at first glance, at least
to me, he seems very warm and empathetic in interviews.
Clearly he's an extrovert, he has natural social skills. And
(29:25):
I'm also going to mention Steve Harvey too. He's a
very social guy. He tries to understand people on a
personal level. He seems really down to earth, at least
that's my perception. We actually also see a lot of
famous actors and performers who are ESFJs. They're going to
(29:46):
gravitate towards these fields, a lot of them, but we
also see them in roles behind the scenes providing support
and organization, so things like a choreographer or a designer.
We also see them in business in careers like an
HR manager or an office manager or a bookkeeper. And
(30:08):
then we see them in the medical field, in nursing
or in education, especially as an elementary school teacher. So
their heart bound by a set of rules and duties,
but they're also very skilled at social interactions and they're
going to thrive in work environments with a set of
(30:30):
standard operating procedures and a clear code of conduct.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
That's great, that's great. I feel that's the SJ family, right.
You know, when we talked about this episode, we knew
that we were going to need multiple episodes to get
through all sixteen types. But I really am really excited
about how we decided to go about it by breaking
up it and breaking this up into families, because I
think it allows us to understand our typing in greater
(30:58):
depth when we're able to look at the temperaments too
as well. So yeah, so I'm really really thankful, and
if I'm really really excited about how you were able
to give each person just a really quick explanation of
their type, because I know that people were tired of
me always talking about my I in f P personality
type all the time, and they were probably thinking like
(31:19):
when we're going to get to me, like what am
I like? That sort of stuff, And that's why we
decided to talk about the preferences so that we have
an idea of what, you know, what preference you might have.
We talked about the temperaments to get you a little
bit understanding how you can group your types into different
families so that way you can understand what your individual
(31:41):
personality type can be in Like we said at the
very very beginning, this is not the type cast to
you and say, well, every I in FP is going
to be exactly the same, every esfj's going to be
exactly the same. We're all different, we are all unique.
This is all information to help us gain self awinn
or some ourselves so that way we can communicate better,
(32:02):
build better relationship, and essentially make better decisions for ourselves.
I know, for me, it's helped me greatly by knowing
what my personality type, knowing what other people's personalities types
in my interaction with them, and it's really greatly impacted
and really helped me in my life.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah. Yeah, well I'm so glad to hear that mark.
And you know, yeah, there are sixteen different personality types,
and of course, as an I NFP mark, you're one
of the rare ones. But yes, it does take some
time to go through all of these types, which is
why we're going to dedicate a few episodes to discussing them.
But hey, folks, we really appreciate you staying with us
(32:41):
here until the end. Next time, we're going to take
a deeper dive into the sp the sensing perceiving types.
So with that, I am going to wrap things up
with just a quick reminder. If you liked this episode,
please share it on social media, give us a like
or a positive comment so we can continue bringing you
(33:05):
great content like this. Thanks everyone, until next time.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Thanks for tuning in, follow us on social media and
your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And please reach out to me on LinkedIn and on
my website at topcreer dot com for more updated content.
While the Myersgriggs and MVTI R trademarks of the Meyersbriggs
Foundation viewpoints expressed here are our own
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!