August 13, 2025 • 59 mins
In this episode titled “Podcasting’s Future Is Choice”, hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss various aspects of the podcasting industry, particularly surrounding the upcoming Podcast Movement event. The episode begins with Todd and Rob greeting each other and discussing their plans to attend the Podcast Movement conference. They discuss the costs associated with attending … Continue reading Podcasting’s Future Is a Choice
The post Podcasting’s Future Is a Choice appeared first on New Media Show.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, Rob. Welcome to the new media show.
I'm back here in the, palatial studios in
Southern Michigan.
It's great to be back doing the show
just prior to podcast movement again.
Yeah. So you have made the decision to
make the trek?
Yeah. I figured I'd pop down there. Did
that
(00:22):
coupon code we shared with you save a
little money?
Well.
Or did you I did use a coupon
code, and it did save me money. Oh,
good. So you didn't weren't able to use
mine, but used someone else's
smart. Hopefully, you got a bigger discount.
Well, it's hard to know sometimes, so you
have to
(00:42):
because it's not like they're they're upfront about
it. Right?
Right. Yeah. So so anyway,
so it'll be interesting down there to see.
Hopefully hopefully
we won't see a train wreck, but,
it's looking a little optimistic.
I got into
the to the Swapcard platform today, and there's
(01:04):
a lot of good people that are going,
it looks like.
So
Well, I you know, there's always a lot
of good people there. Just how many? You
know? That's the Yeah. What's the total number?
Yeah. What's What's what's the composition of that
group too? Right? Are we just all talking
to ourselves or there will be some,
you know? It's it's it's socializing time, Todd.
(01:28):
Well,
that's very expensive socializing.
Well, yeah, it can be. Yeah.
Exactly. I try and shave as much cost
off of it as I can. Yeah.
The podcast standards project is having
daily,
meetups.
There's a whole agenda. I'll put
the
(01:48):
link to the sign up in the,
in the show notes so that you can,
if you wanna sign up and come and
hang out.
There'll be, some open discussions, and
so
should be good. Have a a few refreshments.
You know how much a gallon of coffee
cost?
Too much. $150,155
(02:12):
dollars
for a gallon of coffee from the venue.
Wow. So
so where did you get that number from?
Well, you know, I we paid for
a little vending in
the PSP
room. Oh.
And I set a I set a limit
on it because I knew
it would probably get out of control.
(02:33):
You know, bottle of water, $8.
And so it was all just, you know,
like
so that's how they make their money at
these events is the vending.
Yeah. Yeah. Not not at all pretty.
Yeah. It's,
first of these hotels may price themselves right
out of not being in in that business
(02:54):
anymore. Yeah. I it it If they're not
careful. It's surprising to be, to be quite
frank.
I wasn't surprised, but,
you know, made me rethink. Would it be
better to get to, you know, a $155
a gallon for coffee?
And two gallons of coffee doesn't go too
far with, you know, 10 people. We can
(03:15):
drink two gallons
that quick.
Yeah. So
Yeah. It does does seem to be gouging.
So Yeah. That's
And I think that there's
some,
some reasonable thought
in this area that a lot of inflation
is,
greed and
people gouging.
(03:36):
So Yeah.
And it's it's because once they feel like
that they have an excuse to raise prices,
they do. Mhmm. So
Well,
you know,
you go until the money runs out. That's
Right. That's the
key. Capitalist system that we have. Right? Yeah.
The only way to counteract it is to
(03:57):
cut back on demand. Yeah.
Now
moving off podcast movie here because, you know,
if you're gonna be there, we hope we'll
see you
and,
stop
stop by and, and say hello or you
say at the Blueberry booth or wherever you
may run into us.
The,
there was a article
(04:19):
I sent you a list of show notes.
I don't know if you got that or
not. Yeah. I have it. Yeah. But I
I got something that I,
got from
Tom Webster and their team a few days
ago
that I did not include
in that. And it's it's entitled,
(04:40):
what is a podcast
supposed to be? And the and the title
of the SoundsTropical Arcra starts out with despite
what scary headlines may say,
video and audio podcasting have a more symbiotic
relationship
than one might think, and there's a very
good chart. I don't know if you've seen
this or not.
No. I haven't seen the actual chart. So
(05:02):
the question was asked,
and this was given to 5,000
let's see here.
5,000
humans familiar with the term podcasting.
They were asked,
when you think of a podcast, do you
(05:23):
expect it to be audio or video?
26%
said audio only.
38%
said usually audio,
maybe video.
Mhmm.
21%
may said maybe either.
Usually video, maybe audio, 12%.
(05:46):
And this is the shocker,
video only 3%.
So this is pretty compelling data, I would
say, that even though video
has been dominating the headlines since, you know,
like, the last two years,
but the American public,
as Tom says, expect that a podcast,
(06:07):
at least 64%
of the time, to be an audio only
or audio dominant medium.
So
that
is surprising.
I think one can
read into that whatever they wanna read into
it. Yeah. But I think it's Because because
(06:27):
that data is kind of all over the
map, really, if you look at it.
I I would tend to agree that the
market has not been exposed
to this definition
of video as a podcast.
It's a
pretty recent phenomenon in the consciousness of the
world out there. So I would tend to
(06:48):
agree that
people do tend to link them together. But
as a solo,
you know, do they consider a video,
by itself a podcast? Only 3%. No. Right.
But that doesn't
that doesn't exclude all the other data that's
in there that shows that there's a correlation
(07:09):
in Oh, yeah. Perception. There's a there's definitely
a correlation, but it's it's it's good news.
It's 64%
expected in audio only or audio dominated medium.
K. But I wouldn't read into it that
it says to ignore video. So No. But
I'm saying that there's an expectation here
(07:29):
with actual usage. So what percentage
if any of the podcasts you consume are
on video?
Mhmm. And,
what percentage.
So zero to 24,
47%,
(07:50):
25 to 49, 22%,
50 to 74, 17%,
75 to 114%.
So about half,
were video.
So if the majority of consumer expect a
podcast to be audio forward, we expect the
usage to mirror that, but it didn't play
out that way
(08:12):
Mhmm.
Completely in this data.
So,
you know, perceptions are definitely changing, and things
have shifted. Now this was done sometime in
2024,
not in 2025.
So is this in the sounds profitable website
or something? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's sounds profitable.
(08:34):
Yeah. I didn't have it in the show
notes.
Yeah.
So,
but, yeah, it was a it was an
email that came out about nine hours ago.
Okay. From, from Tom and the team.
Mhmm. So,
yeah. So I thought it was interesting
(08:54):
in itself. And, of course, you and I
have been in,
some WhatsApp groups where there's been some lively
discussion.
And,
I will say that it's a little
pessimistic, don't you think?
Well,
the state of podcasting and the state of
(09:15):
the medium right now is it it is
very cloudy is what is the term that
I would use to describe it,
around the where it's going, what the future
is, you know, this play between audio and
video. And people are,
you know,
this is an example of a era that
we're going through,
(09:36):
of change. Right? And, you know, I think
if you think back to the early years
of podcasting,
the contrast was between radio and podcasting. Right?
So
podcasting at that time was audio and video
in the early years. Right. Right. So in
some ways we're kind of going back to
the the origins of podcasting.
(09:56):
While at the same time, podcasting is becoming
a very highly commercialized,
highly professionalized
medium
as a replacement.
Oh,
Rob just froze.
Oh, wonder if he's gonna disappear here.
(10:20):
Wow. Yeah. I mean, he froze
oh, he froze for a second, Rob.
Fees and and ways to generate revenue
have come into podcasting. So Yeah.
Yeah. You froze for a second. I don't
know what happened.
Okay.
And so a lot of that commercialism
(10:42):
because you and I both know, and this
was in the discussion in this
group that a lot of people just don't
understand the early years of podcasting
was
anti commercial.
Anti,
you know, a person selling out to advertisers.
You know, I did a commercial commercial radio
show that had ads in it, and I
(11:02):
I got flack. And I know you did
too because you had a sponsor. Yeah.
So, you know, that was that's the contrast
of the past
as opposed to what we see in the
future. And what we see now
is that we're we're becoming more like mainstream
media. Right?
Look at programmatic advertising.
(11:23):
Edsel looks an awful lot like broadcast radio
monetization.
So if you think about it,
a lot of people don't like to think
about it in that context. They like to
think of it as something
different and unique and all that stuff. But,
you know,
set, ad breaks in your content.
It's exactly what commercial radio does.
(11:45):
So, you know, and then having it automated,
it's just adding a layer of technology on
top of, something that was done by in
studio
producer. Right? That was managing a board and
transitioning between ads
on their board. I used to do it
with my radio show, so I know exactly
how it works.
And so it's just a matter of
(12:06):
yeah. So I think what's happening in the
medium right right now is, is we're in
this transition phase,
in
what's happening in industry that kind of has
its roots in the past.
Back when podcasting started, it was a revolution,
really against the commercialization
(12:27):
of broadcast.
And
and for a few years, it was an
anti commercial
medium. I'm talking about podcasting.
And so now we've kind of moved into
a new phase where we've
added,
more commercial elements. You know, there's a lot
more focus on monetization and people making money
with their podcasts and programmatic advertising, which mirrors
(12:50):
exactly what broadcast radio has been done on
the air for years and ad loads are
going up. And so you can see a
direct correlation. In the early years, podcasting was
a lot about video too.
So we we become what we were trying
to avoid.
Exactly. And things go in full cycle. And
I think
Rocky Thomas made a comment in this thread
(13:12):
as well that kind
of put a little ribbon and bow on
this that she's been through. She's seen this
cycle happen before with streaming radio and and
other types of media that has tried to
transition audiences into a new delivery method.
And so that's what's happened here. We've transitioned
(13:32):
our audience into a new delivery method for
content. And
that's why that's why we've seen a lot
of the big,
studios and
commercial radio companies
transition into doing more podcasting is because they
saw it as the future of their distribution.
And that's really what we're talking about here.
So
(13:53):
if if that's, you know, if we're okay
with that, my question is, well, what's the
next revolution
that we're gonna create,
as a blowback to over commercialization
again?
What's next?
That's a good question. I don't know.
Yeah. Or it may be too soon or
(14:14):
we may be seeing it already start.
Alright. Let's get into the, the stack of
stuff here
that I have.
Oh, god. I'm gonna edit the shit out
of this thing. There's a,
podcast study that says that more listeners
most listeners make room for just three podcasts
a week.
(14:35):
A ruthless attention ceiling every creator now competes
with. Now, but that to me
is is a little surprising
in in regards to
that goes against everything we've heard for many,
many years.
And that was done I don't know. Someone
did this study
and said they only listen to three shows.
(14:58):
Most listeners, I guess, average listeners maybe, but
seems a little low to me.
Well, I think that there's been a lot
of research over the years that says that,
a typical podcast consumer has has had, like,
six or maybe seven subscriptions
in their podcast app. Right? So that's been
(15:19):
the long standing
metric that I've seen in the Edison research
and things like that. But that doesn't speak
to,
how much they're actually
listening
to. So maybe they're only listening to half
of those
that they have in their subscription list. Yeah.
But it also says weekly, which,
(15:39):
is a
vector in in here too.
What if you said,
monthly?
What would that number be? Would that be
the six and seven? Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, you know, again, and it it
goes into this, how do you, you know,
how do you stay in these, you know,
the the top three rotation of a listener?
(16:03):
And, really, in the end, it it hasn't
been about staying in the rotation of the
of the top three. It's been about
just building an audience that's dedicated to you.
You know?
There's probably, in my
hard rotation, five or six right now, and
then I catch can as catch can. But
(16:26):
Well, it also is unclear
in one aspect of it is that it
uses the word
three podcasts a week. Is that implying that
it listens to
three different podcasts or that it listens to
three
episodes
a week?
I think it applies. It's only three shows
(16:47):
that they listen to. K. But that that
doesn't really help us because maybe they're maybe
those two of the three shows are doing
two episodes a week. Does that mean that
they're
consuming
every episode on weekly basis of three different
shows? Well, it was it was an eye
catching headline. So Well, it was right. And
it's Yeah. This is where
(17:08):
research and studies kinda fall apart is that
they're not clear because the questions they asked
probably Yep. Didn't cause the questioner to I
agree. Get clear.
Also, and and this kinda surprises me. He
says podcast ad spend is 28 up 28%
year over year.
Magellan AI shows continued advertising demand ad load
(17:31):
rose
8.13%
from 8% quarter one.
Okay. If this is the true if this
is true
I don't think it's true.
Then why is Gimlet,
getting rid of a 100 people?
Right. Yeah. No question. Well, there's always been
this onslaught of positive news about the advertising
(17:52):
market. Right? Yeah.
You know,
I don't hear any bad news ever get
announced publicly about advertising market to you. 28%
year over year
expansion. But this isn't Magellan. This is the
marketing arm of,
of,
the the company that should be not named.
(18:16):
Who's Well, isn't
isn't that,
oh my god. I'm having a brain fart
here. SoundStack or not SoundStack.
SoundCloud. Isn't that SoundCloud's
marketing arm?
I don't think so. I think it's a
data data Oh, maybe not. Yeah. I think
(18:37):
it's a data you know, it's an analytics.
Yeah. Magellan AI. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So, apparently, they're analyzing
ad load.
But the question is how deep do they
really, really, really go?
28%.
Yeah. That's that's if that's the case, everyone
should be rolling in money. There should not
be a problem with the
(18:58):
with the, podcast economy from a advertising standpoint.
Right. I've heard I mean, the most optimistic,
projection that I've seen is 12% growth.
So
this year,
that's what they're projecting for all for advertising.
(19:19):
Yeah. Yeah.
That's what they're talking about here. So
yeah,
of course, 28%
would be a significant up from what
many others have projected
is the growth.
IHeart says that they, podcast now make up
14.3%
of their revenue.
(19:39):
IHeart podcast
plus 28% to a 134,000,000.
It's amazing how those numbers are very close.
And now 14 I would think that the
iHeart folks would have to tell the truth
here because they have
fiduciary responsibilities
to their shareholders. Yeah. Potential.
Radio is down 7%,
(20:02):
but podcasts are surging a clear signal that
legacy audio growth engine is on demand. Now
I think it's true on the radio piece
being down
the type of numbers that they're down, and
that doesn't surprise me at all.
Yeah. It's not falling off a cliff, but
it's definitely
declining
every year.
(20:23):
But at the same time
less important. Right. Those of you that live
outside The United States and Canada, Spotify is
raising your,
your cost of your your subscription.
So, you know, it's gonna cost you more.
And, they're trying to push this all all
(20:43):
audio bundle, pushing creators to expect
churn blips and renewed bundling promos.
So Spotify's hiking premium pricing
in most countries.
I refuse to give them any money.
I wonder if that premium pricing is ad
free. Is that what it means? That's that's
a good question.
(21:04):
Or does that include advertising? I think it
still includes some ads.
And, and they're probably speaking more about the
music side here.
Yeah. Like, because that's the largest part of
their business.
So, yeah.
Oh, I thought that this story was interesting.
(21:25):
The,
but the next one down the
DSTV
cancels to
unfiltered
TV podcast. Now that's a term for you
right there. TV podcast. Apparently, these folks,
said it was too risky. And, you know,
what did they expect signing some podcast
that it would be risky?
(21:46):
You know, porting podcast to linear TV is
risky.
Well
Isn't that that the whole point of signing
a podcast is that it's a little bit
more content risky? Well, you know,
yes, they need some oversight
and compliance.
You know? They probably said the f word
too many times, you know?
That's Or some, you know, or something to
that effect.
(22:08):
Yeah. But, you know, I'm just like
yeah. If if It's risky. Podcasts are risky.
Yeah. Yeah.
So because the content is so, oh, so
so bold and Out there. Yeah. Right? Some
of the stuff that I've seen on TV,
you know, makes me think it had to
be pretty extreme
Right. Considering some of the stuff that's out
(22:29):
there today that is, I mean, like, wow.
I mean, like, really,
wow.
Yeah. You know? Probably should I think there
was used to be rules about that type
of content being on past 9PM at night
or something like that. You know? But
teenagers don't go to sleep anymore. So I
guess
those rules don't apply.
(22:49):
So
my question for these folks is that,
what were the ratings on the
unfiltered
TV podcast versus the filtered TV podcast? Yeah.
That would be curious to know, wouldn't it?
It'd be be a good a good that'd
be the good stat.
That'd be the good good stat to have.
(23:09):
I had a, interesting
I was,
we announced a slide on the podcast awards
couple weeks ago, and,
of course, I'm I'm talking to all the
creators via email, and I'm saying, hey. Make
sure your listings are right and make sure
your links to your home pages are good
and, you know, just just double check your
(23:31):
listings. And one of the
one of the, creators came back and said,
well, we don't have a home page. And
I'm like,
really?
Yeah. We haven't had time.
And, well, obviously, they are doing good enough.
They made the slate without a homepage.
And then another,
podcaster said, well, our our homepage is behind
a a paywall.
(23:52):
And I'm like, so you have a public
podcast
that's available publicly, but your homepage
is behind a paywall.
And I said, isn't that impacting
your
your search results and discovery? And
so it's it's real curious on
some of the setups that people have.
(24:14):
And,
of course, a few folks were upset that
we went and linked to their YouTube channel.
I said there's no way for anyone to
subscribe to your show via RSS
via YouTube. So,
right,
yeah. So that was, you know, probably went
over like a fart in church, but, yeah,
it's my it's my rules.
(24:37):
Audio boom. What what do you say?
That's mostly the case now for any any
kind of,
video out there,
really. I mean, until
podcasting decides to get get video back into
RSS more
Ted. This concept of
subscribing
to a to a video is kind of
(24:58):
out the window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it
still amazes me. I mean, the number of
people when I say, oh, we have a
video podcast on Apple Podcasts are like, what?
Yeah. What is that? It's there it is
almost always a what? You know? They they
just Yeah. They don't know.
So that that that story continues.
(25:20):
Top
top 10
UK podcast reached 2,300,000
Americans weekly. Well, I would think so. This
we were both English speeding speaking countries, so
I would assume
there's a lot of, a lot of crossover
there.
So
Todd, have you felt this too that,
(25:41):
there's something about content that's created over in
The UK that
that sparks interest here,
more
over the last maybe the last couple of
years or the last year. I I don't
know if it's because of the,
the fascination with, you know, the podcast show
or people. I don't know. It just feels
(26:03):
like that The UK
content is
somehow maybe maybe seen as a little more
appealing?
Well,
I I have subscribed to none of it,
so I'm not one to be able to
speak to it.
Yeah. I'm not talking about us personally. Yeah.
But
just general attention. One question is what are
(26:23):
the categories? The public radio had
for many years as quality.
Yeah.
But the question is what is the Slow.
What what are the, froze again. Yeah. I
can hear you though.
Can you hear me?
Yeah. I can hear you. So the question
is what categories
I could hear you the whole time, Rob.
(26:44):
What categories
were,
are affected here? That's the, you know, that's
the question I have is okay. Top 10,
but what are the categories of those podcasts?
Yeah.
But audio boom, video revenue doubled 60% of
creators now do video, 13% of biz from
(27:04):
video.
So
that's interesting.
Yeah. They're gonna change their company name to
VideoBoom
from AudioBoom?
Yep. That's an interesting question, Todd. And where
and where is that revenue coming from? Is
this stuff that they're they're monetizing in YouTube?
(27:27):
Or,
you know, where where is that actually happening
at?
It's probably likely mostly YouTube.
Yeah. Probably starting to phase in a little
bit on the Spotify side is my my
estimate.
You know, who knows? Maybe audio boom becomes,
you know, a podcast boom.
Oh.
(27:49):
Yeah.
Well,
As podcast
increasingly
takes the label of audio and video.
So I don't know. Yeah. The conversations that
I've been having with, creators, I've been
(28:12):
they're very
reserved
in
wanting to do audio I mean, video.
Yeah.
And I can see that. Yeah. It's,
it's just ongoing. They're like,
you know, so to. Do I have to?
It's that kind of a Right. You know,
(28:34):
do I have to? And then, you know,
the work
and the money.
You know? And, you know, that's the that's
the kind of probably complicated because may maybe
if you filter that against people that have
been doing audio podcast for many years and
are contemplating it, and then those that
are just getting started? Well, maybe.
(28:56):
But these are mostly people are just getting
started.
Are they? Okay. Yeah. That I've been talking
to. So,
you know, I just I always tell them,
hey. Audio
first is safe. You know, just
get your voice heard. Let your, you know,
build your your vocalization
skills. You know? Mhmm.
(29:17):
So but did did I tell you that
they're put they put the fiber?
Oh, I didn't. The fiber's actually been installed
in front of my house.
But it's not to your your Well unit
quite yet? It's they're they're blowing it in.
So
probably it'll be
several months before it's actually hooked up. But
(29:37):
Yeah. Because they have to trench it to
your place. Oh, it's well, they have to
they've it's it's at least now
well, I would say 60 feet
to 80 feet, maybe
from from my house. It's, you know, it's
there's there's fiber in the dirt. Let's just
put it that way.
Okay.
And It's coming down the driveway.
(29:59):
Well, it's down the road.
You know?
And, Oh, you mean down the road in
front of your place? That's right. Yeah. It's
But not actually
connecting. No. They're not doing any up your
driveway. They're just bringing the main lines in.
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, and,
Frontier has a heck of a thing. I
I think once we get on that, seven
(30:19):
gig is the plan I'm gonna sign up
for.
Wow. So,
yeah, that that that should not cause us
to stutter anymore when the Starlink antennas are
are choking. Yeah. You would hope.
You know? So is that kind of a
bidirectional
thing? Or Yeah. Seven up, seven down.
Wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
(30:40):
I'm not even getting that much here. No.
I probably won't sign up for seven gig
plan. 500.
They've got a five gig plan, but it's,
you know, it's all relative. You you still
are limited.
You you know, you have to have the
equipment here to be able to support
That speed. That type of speed. Yeah. And
luckily, I do,
because I came from the, you know, the
(31:02):
studio where we had the gig. So everything's
been wired here for high speed. It's just
I don't have it.
What's seven
seven gigs? Yeah. They offer seven gigs.
100 Is that $159.
Does that require entirely different hardware to support
the It does. Five gig does too.
(31:23):
Yeah. So,
and a a year commitment.
So the equipment's worth about $500
that they're bringing in.
So
So what's the capacity of,
of Wi Fi?
Oh, you you yeah. Yeah. If you're connecting
via Wi Fi, then you're just gonna be
on Starlink speeds. It's there's unless you're on
(31:44):
Wi Fi seven.
You know, Wi Fi seven is not that
quick.
And most stuff is Wi Fi six now.
So I'm just curious.
Yeah. Because I think
if I access
my,
Wi Fi
connection to my house here,
because I get about half half a gig
(32:06):
is my plan currently right now. But I
bet you only get about
Down.
I bet you only get about,
Wi Fi six is can theoretically reach up
to 9.6 gigs, but it you know, you
gotta have the right equipment.
Wi Fi seven is 46 gigs, but, again,
you gotta have the right equipment.
(32:29):
Wi Fi five is 3.5,
and that's a lot of stuff still right
now.
There's still,
you know, Internet thing devices are still connected,
over Wi Fi four too. So
Okay. I just I'm doing a speed test
on my
wifi here on my phone, which is over
wifi.
(32:51):
And it looks like,
download speed 237
megs.
Yeah.
That would that's what I would expect.
Yeah.
But it's interesting it doesn't test for upload
speed. So that's gonna be, you know, if
it did if it lives true to the
word and it, you know, it works.
(33:12):
But again, I don't know how long it's
gonna take them to get
turn things terminated and
then start offering the service. It could be
another year. Who knows?
Yeah. Because I mean,
I mean, what would you possibly even be
able to use seven gigs for that would
Oh, if you had server you could run
servers
(33:33):
literally.
Yeah. You could. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You could.
I had much slower servers back in the
early days. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine having
a seven gig connection in this you know,
that's
and, of course, I'm sure that there is
a express
that's probably expressly forbidden
with your service contract. You know? I would
yeah. I would imagine.
(33:55):
But,
yeah. I think I'll be happy with one
gig, to be frank,
you know?
Well, for most applications Yeah. For most purposes,
that's plenty. That's plenty. Even even my mobile
phone speed of 266
megs down is
I mean, can't have been a mess. We're
only pushing seven megs right now. That's the
(34:15):
speed I push on the output.
Yeah. So,
you know, seven megs, seven gigs, there's a
big difference there. I can run 25 or
100 streams at once. But again,
you're not. But not. Right. Right. Yeah.
But yeah. So the
there must be a good reason
(34:37):
to offer that kind of bandwidth. It's just
a bigger number looks better?
Well, yeah. It's probably
a from a marketing perspective, it looks better.
But do most people even know what the
difference is? Well, it's probably designed if you
have 20 kids.
Right. Or if you have a large Yeah.
Family
that has
(34:57):
lots of devices connecting. Yeah. And in in
this, you know, here, it's just me.
You know, next door, my sister's, you know,
she's got a lot of kids connecting to,
you know,
they're even more constrained. So sometimes they connect
to my
connection to be able to so kids kids
can play games and stuff. So,
(35:18):
so I have to change my password every
once in a while
to boot them all off for a little
bit.
Yeah. So,
the talk about podcast movement? I'm sorry?
Did you wanna talk
more about what's coming up with podcast movement?
One of the articles that's out is,
(35:40):
Nielsen is launching podcast fusion.
It's a planning and measurements
step change for agencies
to include NPR and Ocean Media.
So you're back. Yeah. You froze for a
second again there. Yeah. So,
I don't know what this really means. It
says with Edison data into NMI,
(36:01):
that's not even a term I even know.
So
Nielsen Nielsen's another product to extract money out
of people.
And, yeah, are they even relevant anymore, Nielsen?
Well, they've been servicing the radio industry for
(36:22):
years.
I know that they've wanted to transition more
into the digital side, but
that's what their,
their research has always been based on
trying to analyze
advertising effectiveness
and
market
market ratings and things like that is what
they've
(36:42):
mostly done over the years.
Did you,
you before you froze a second ago, did
you have anything more that you had heard
on heard about podcast movement? Any rumors? Any
things that we should be looking out for?
I mean, I think it'll all the activity
around the podcast standards project that's going on
(37:04):
down there probably probably should have a mention.
And
and it looks like mister Adam Curry is
gonna be there doing doing a presentation, which
I think we've talked about that on the
show before. But Yep.
But I've
gotten into the app, and I've got my
arrangements. Actually, I fly in on the seventeenth
and leave on the twenty first. So I'm
(37:25):
I'm there for the duration.
Oh,
so I get in on Sunday as well.
You do. Okay. So and I I leave
on,
the twenty second because the show doesn't end.
Yeah. So it's smart. You're getting out there
and not having to pay for another hotel
day.
Yeah. Yeah.
I did a personal I'm renting a car
(37:46):
personally, not charging against the company
Uh-huh. Because I wanna go bourbon hunting a
little bit.
So,
Sunday when I get in, I'm going to,
hit a few. If there's anybody in Dallas
that can give me some recommendations
on I have a list already, but if
you have any recommendations on
where to go,
(38:06):
striking bourbon, let me know.
I have I have room in my suitcase
to bring four bottles back. So
Okay.
So that's kinda my thing now is when
I'm in a different place. I
when I was in Chicago the other day
coming back, I would
I had a few hours before I got
on the train, so I
(38:27):
found a couple of,
selections that I can't get in mix Michigan.
And,
but
I tell you,
you, the,
it's completely not related and probably shouldn't talk
about it, but Amtrak
has gotten real strict. They're they now are
checking bag weights, bag sizes. My bag was
(38:49):
over by an inch, so they charged me
$20.
And,
it just
it cracks me up, you know, all these
years running loose, and now they're
now they're gonna be,
try try to,
be more strict on their weights.
(39:09):
So
yeah. But, anyway, it's a it's still a
good ride coming back. It's amazing how many
people,
are actually travel traveling on Amtrak. I would
have never had any idea it was they
would have full trains
like they do.
But it's cheaper than parking in Chicago. That's
for sure.
Yeah.
Well, I've heard a lot of people talk
(39:30):
about the location
of the Gaylord being kind of a long
ways from Dallas.
It's like a forty minute drive. It's close
to the airport.
Well, it is close to the airport. That
is true. Yeah. Yeah. But it's
kind of in a well, it's to the
Northwest
(39:51):
of the airport by a few few miles.
So this it's really in the no man's
land. So
Yeah. It's out towards the there's some lake
there or something like that that it's on.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you you know, there's there's
no you're you're a captive audience there a
100%.
Yeah. I know that the the closest alternative
hotel that I
(40:12):
I found was like a mile away.
And what was the price on that?
Most of the hotels in the proximity around
it
are are around a $100,
$125
away.
That's that's considerably cheaper.
They all range from, like, one mile to
(40:35):
two miles away from the hotel
from the the Gaylord.
Right.
So,
you know, you could save, you know, a
significant amount of money. I think
the typical,
I guess, block rate for podcast movement is
around $2.50 a night. I think we paid
more than that.
(40:56):
Well, from what I've gathered in the in
this discussion group that we're both a member
of, is that, a couple of months ago,
people,
people,
many people paid like over $300
Oh,
for for a ticket. And then here more
(41:16):
recently,
the the price dropped.
Oh, that's interesting.
Let me go to my email,
and
let me look.
So there were people that had registered
at some period in the time, you know,
in the past
Yeah. That that canceled their reservations and rebooked,
(41:39):
and they got, like, a $100 discount.
So okay. My rate is $2.54.
Yeah. That's that's the current rate.
And we booked that on
June
23.
Okay.
So that's the current rate then.
(42:00):
Yeah. So I'm not sure what was going
on with that, but
yeah. I've heard that,
but there can be pretty severe penalties for
the podcast movement event.
If they don't sell out their their block.
Right.
And there's still rooms available in the block?
I have not got the impression that there
(42:21):
are not.
So so I I think currently there still
is. Oh.
But I'm not for sure. I didn't
actually, I went a different route on that.
So
okay. Juice points or did you you room
in with somebody?
Yeah.
Okay. That's that's smart.
(42:41):
Yeah. $254
a night, and you're just going up there
to crash. If someone's got a room with
a dual bed,
you know,
why not?
I mean I mean, because if you split
it, then it's only like 125.
Yeah. Yeah. Then it's it's more reasonable. Easy
that's a easier pill to swallow for sure.
(43:03):
It is. Yeah. And especially if you get
along with the person. Yeah.
That is at all the alternative hotels around
it,
as well. So
that's about the best that you're gonna Yeah.
Get. The only difference is is you're gonna,
you know, you pay the the on premises
prices for food and everything.
(43:24):
Yeah. Or or or try just not to
eat very much. Well, yeah. And do do
do Uber
Uber Eats or, you know No. No. Do
a fast. Oh, do a fast. Those three
days. Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's I I have to eat at
least once a day. So
(43:45):
Yeah. I mean, that's that's what I typically
do, but you could. I mean, if you're
really busy at an event, I mean, a
lot of people don't
think that they can. Right? Yeah. It's a
mental block, but you actually can. Well, I'm
in. I've gone
seven days without eating, so and I was
perfectly fine. Yeah. It's the first two or
three days that's hard to get over. But
(44:07):
for me now, I'm
I just, you know, it's
I just I stepped on the scale the
the other day, and I was at one
seventy nine. So I'm one seventy nine, one
eighty
right now. And,
trying to get to one seventy seven and
that will be 30 pounds, but,
That's good. Yeah. Yeah. A pound or so
(44:27):
a week.
Yeah.
So is there anything else that you've heard,
Todd, at all? I haven't heard a lot
of Haven't heard nothing.
Rumors about the event. I haven't even looked
at who the keynote speakers are, to be
honest with you. I haven't paid much. I'll
probably do that on the airplane.
So it looks like,
(44:48):
Justin Jackson's
gonna be doing a video podcast in RSS
plus HLS streaming session
on the eighteenth. That's gonna be at the
Podcast Standards Project,
room,
I think.
It's in well, it's in Dallas 3 Classroom
at the Gaylord.
(45:09):
Yeah.
It's kind of a community meetup is what
it is. Yeah. That's in the PSP meeting
area.
Yeah. It doesn't say anything about PSP here,
but I'm assuming it is. Yeah. There are
yeah.
They've got something scheduled each day,
for that room. So
got it. Have some some discussions.
(45:32):
So it's
Dave Jackson's doing another presentation.
So so many ways to monetize. Which one
is best
for you.
Is the topic of his talk.
And I mean it's
(45:53):
it's a clue to some degree what, what
the thinking in the industry is just by
looking at the headlines
of the sessions. Yeah.
The titles of the sessions. So there's one
with Brian Barletta
and Sean Howard from,
flight path, which is a ad buying platform.
Winning the video first podcast future
(46:15):
insights for creators, tech teams and revenue generators.
So
in the subtitle is the video boom and
podcasting is no longer on the horizon. It's
here.
Okay.
That's it.
9AM
on,
on Tuesday, the nineteenth. Well, he's got a
good time slot.
(46:35):
Yeah.
Well,
hopefully, people are awake by then.
Well, the keynote's at eight or something like
that, so
you would hope.
As much money as people are spending to
go to this event, I would think that
they would be
attending most of the sessions. You would you
would think.
(46:59):
But So the actual ticket ticket that I
got was about $300.
So
so it's not their
top end ticket. Right? Right.
Their their pro ticket. So
What is it? I don't even know what
the pro even gets you on that event.
I think it's over a thousand.
Yeah. Probably get you fed and everything else.
(47:21):
Probably.
Yeah. They can. It looks like
Adam Curry's on stage with Rocky Thomas
at 09:45AM.
On what day? On the
nineteenth.
Which is
that's Tuesday.
Tuesday. So I think my
my dealio is on Wednesday,
(47:43):
I think, Wednesday morning. I was asked to
be on a panel too, and I I
don't know what time it is. I gotta
I'm not listed. It's it must be some
unofficial panel.
But Tracy sent me a message. I gotta
go look it up.
And
there's another
(48:03):
panel title, your holy shift
audio alone won't pay the bills. Oh, that's
not true.
That one's
the panel is,
Heather Osgood,
Steve,
Razzies, who used to work for Paramount.
(48:24):
Advertising. Advertising.
Yeah.
So
Yeah. So even the podcast
advertising platforms are Yeah. Definitely
pushing pushing
video.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, we we will see.
But but the question is back to I
(48:45):
mean, it's gonna be host reads into,
let's say, a YouTube show. You have to.
So Yeah. Yeah. That's the only alternative that
you have. Yep. Yep. It's
which, you know, for many of those businesses,
that's that's their bread and butter. So
Yeah.
And then another one is called powering the
future of multi channel podcast networks.
(49:08):
Mhmm. So
I thought podcast networks are already multi channel.
Yeah.
So
that's just a sampling
of some of the Some of the sessions.
It does show kind of a
a focus and a direction.
You get any idea by looking at the
app? Of course, I think you can I
don't know if you can message attendees or
(49:29):
look at the attendee list? I don't know
if you can or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You can. Yeah. So you could probably get
a rough idea
how many how many attendees they are by
looking at that, but I don't think it
gives you an actual
total number. Yeah. Account. Yeah. I don't think
so either. And of course, a lot of
people don't add the app to heck, not
(49:49):
even when the show's going. So
Yeah.
So I've got the app open right now
and
people are starting to message each other in
here. But
and then,
Mattia from Triton Digital has a session he's
doing on that same day at 10:30AM called
(50:11):
why programmatic
audio wins when budgets get tight.
Boy, it's all about monetization,
So is that like
a a pro low CPM?
Well, there's some some stuff going on in
programmatic, and I I'm not too at liberty
to say, but I will say that
(50:33):
there are
upward movements in CPMs and programmatic.
What is driving that?
Is that dollars that are shifting out of
host reads?
I don't know where it's coming from, but
I know that there
is
a
(50:55):
well, all I know is that
there are
some price minimums that we're starting to get
guarantees
on for inventory.
Because it was always like this
and always moves by the hour.
But anytime you can get a price guarantee
on a,
(51:17):
a min,
you know,
and that,
you know, that's always awesome that you know
it won't go under.
It can go up, but it can't go
under a certain amount.
That to me is is is,
is is exciting in that regard. But
we still have I'm still getting queries from
(51:38):
companies that talk to me in, Europe that
want to
have a have a chunk of our programmatic,
and
I'm pretty happy with SoundStack. They've done a
great job. So
I don't really need to,
you know, do
any,
additional engineering.
(51:59):
Yeah. So we may see
it because I'm, I'm hearing just from talk
as I talk to people myself is that,
some of the kind of medium size larger
shows people are, people are noticing a higher
percentage
of programmatic ads
versus
maybe a more balanced approach for host reads
(52:21):
and programmatic. Right?
There tends to be this movement towards
if there's inventory
or
slots that need to get filled, they're not
getting filled by prerecorded host reads. They're getting
filled by programmatic
increasingly.
Which means lower CPMs.
Which means lower CPMs, but it also means
that,
(52:42):
maybe there's fewer host read buys
going through the system. But Rob, didn't didn't
someone say that sales are up 28%?
But it didn't specify what type of advertising
it was. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
So
if they're selling,
maybe there's a shift that's going on
you know, away from higher CPM
(53:03):
advise into lower CPM advise if they can
buy inventory into a large group of shows
or, you know, a targeted group of shows
that's programmatic.
And also
Spreaker has made an announcement that they're gonna
do AI generated host reads No. Under programmatic.
God. So
(53:23):
take the host's voice and clone it into
an ad. Yeah. I'm sure that's gonna be
effective.
Well,
I guess we're gonna find out.
And then another panel session in here is
how YouTubers thrive
in the podcasting space. So they are drawing
a distinction between the two, which
(53:47):
it's not like,
really YouTube is
a is a podcast really.
Yeah.
It looks like we froze again. Yeah. I
I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Yeah. I don't know what's going on. Yeah.
I I could hear you the entire time
even though your Okay. Your face froze.
(54:09):
Right.
Yeah. I'm gonna have to do some resetting
of my Internet connections here.
Something's weird. I don't know don't know why
it's been freezing. I I spent all day
on Zoom and it never locks, then I
get you on and it's
Right.
So there's
there's two other titles of sessions that are
(54:30):
interesting too. One is called pro level podcasting.
How to up level your video production without
breaking the bank.
One session
that's put on by,
I guess there's two Matthew passes in here.
So he's putting I get the
there's two speakers and they're both Matthew Passys.
(54:51):
So,
so I don't know if one's AI
or or not. So one of my recent
trends is in, you know, we get
sales inquiries all the time.
And,
company decides, oh, yeah. We're gonna we're gonna
go with you for your for pro hosting
and,
you know, we're gonna bring over three, four
(55:13):
shows and blah blah blah. And, you know,
and then all of a sudden, I get
dropped a
service agreement.
And, the service agreement has, you
know, eight pages of legal lease. And
I'm like, you're on a $100
a month hosting account, and you're dropping me
an eight page
(55:33):
legal document
with,
and I'm like, no.
Sorry.
You are
enterprise. They go, what is the difference between
enterprise and pro? I said, there's nothing
difference. It's the it's the
the lawyer hours that I am gonna get
billed
(55:54):
by going over your service agreement.
Right.
And it's amazing how many companies have to
have a
you know, have to have this, have these
separate documents and they say, well, you have
to appreciate. I'm like, well, you have to
appreciate
that I'm paying for lawyer reviews. And
(56:15):
if you're on an enterprise plan, you're gonna
include three hours of, you know, of cost,
of legal.
And, boy, they get mad. They get really
mad.
So you mean if I could just come
in and put my credit card down, it's
only a $100 a month? Yep.
And you're gonna charge me this amount because
I have to you have to do a
legal review?
(56:36):
Yep.
So
it's more and more of that. So where
I now are, I'm just, you know, telling
the sales team, make sure you tell them
if they have
a external agreement that they're gonna need and
just can't sign up our terms of service,
they're gonna be enterprise.
And,
(56:56):
and then I
I slap a
price on there that is
equivalent of an enterprise account.
Right.
So
big companies have a hard time
doing anything without all kinds of,
you know, paperwork,
(57:17):
red tape. Yep. All you wanna see are
certificate insurance.
Why? Right. Well, I you know, we're not
on your premises. We're not we're not working
in your building.
Or your
was it called your
SSO?
Oh, just
it's That's annoying. That's funny. Alright. We're already
at the time here. Even though the show
(57:39):
is gonna be shorter because we've had all
kinds of weird
freezing problems today. Makes my editing a night
for hell here, which sucks, but it's okay.
Rob, I guess there's nothing live happening for
us next week, so we'll be off again
Yeah. Next week, and then we'll come back
and give everyone a report after after the
(57:59):
event.
Yeah. Okay.
Sounds good.
So,
anyway,
I'm todd@blueberry.comatgeeknewson
x@geeknewsatgeeknews.chat
on Mastodon.
I'm
can be found at rob greenley dot com.
Rob.greenley@gmail.com.
(58:21):
And,
I'm on all the social platforms. I'm easy
to find on on on YouTube too. I'm
doing a bunch of stuff over there. So
So thanks for being with us today. And
if you're watching live, we,
sorry about
the froze screens. Yeah.
Starlink's not,
maybe they've they introduced a new algorithm.
So maybe it's great for staying connected, but
(58:43):
it's switching the satellites too often or something.
I don't know.
But I've been on Zoom all day and
I had a problem. And, of course, we
start the show and
ears glitching.
Issues. So alright, everyone. Thanks. We'll see you
next, two weeks from now. Everyone take care.
Yep. Yep. Bye. Bye.
Hey, Rob. Welcome to the new media show.
I'm back here in the, palatial studios in
Southern Michigan.
It's great to be back doing the show
just prior to podcast movement again.
Yeah. So you have made the decision to
make the trek?
Yeah. I figured I'd pop down there. Did
that
(00:22):
coupon code we shared with you save a
little money?
Well.
Or did you I did use a coupon
code, and it did save me money. Oh,
good. So you didn't weren't able to use
mine, but used someone else's
smart. Hopefully, you got a bigger discount.
Well, it's hard to know sometimes, so you
have to
(00:42):
because it's not like they're they're upfront about
it. Right?
Right. Yeah. So so anyway,
so it'll be interesting down there to see.
Hopefully hopefully
we won't see a train wreck, but,
it's looking a little optimistic.
I got into
the to the Swapcard platform today, and there's
(01:04):
a lot of good people that are going,
it looks like.
So
Well, I you know, there's always a lot
of good people there. Just how many? You
know? That's the Yeah. What's the total number?
Yeah. What's What's what's the composition of that
group too? Right? Are we just all talking
to ourselves or there will be some,
you know? It's it's it's socializing time, Todd.
(01:28):
Well,
that's very expensive socializing.
Well, yeah, it can be. Yeah.
Exactly. I try and shave as much cost
off of it as I can. Yeah.
The podcast standards project is having
daily,
meetups.
There's a whole agenda. I'll put
the
(01:48):
link to the sign up in the,
in the show notes so that you can,
if you wanna sign up and come and
hang out.
There'll be, some open discussions, and
so
should be good. Have a a few refreshments.
You know how much a gallon of coffee
cost?
Too much. $150,155
(02:12):
dollars
for a gallon of coffee from the venue.
Wow. So
so where did you get that number from?
Well, you know, I we paid for
a little vending in
the PSP
room. Oh.
And I set a I set a limit
on it because I knew
it would probably get out of control.
(02:33):
You know, bottle of water, $8.
And so it was all just, you know,
like
so that's how they make their money at
these events is the vending.
Yeah. Yeah. Not not at all pretty.
Yeah. It's,
first of these hotels may price themselves right
out of not being in in that business
(02:54):
anymore. Yeah. I it it If they're not
careful. It's surprising to be, to be quite
frank.
I wasn't surprised, but,
you know, made me rethink. Would it be
better to get to, you know, a $155
a gallon for coffee?
And two gallons of coffee doesn't go too
far with, you know, 10 people. We can
(03:15):
drink two gallons
that quick.
Yeah. So
Yeah. It does does seem to be gouging.
So Yeah. That's
And I think that there's
some,
some reasonable thought
in this area that a lot of inflation
is,
greed and
people gouging.
(03:36):
So Yeah.
And it's it's because once they feel like
that they have an excuse to raise prices,
they do. Mhmm. So
Well,
you know,
you go until the money runs out. That's
Right. That's the
key. Capitalist system that we have. Right? Yeah.
The only way to counteract it is to
(03:57):
cut back on demand. Yeah.
Now
moving off podcast movie here because, you know,
if you're gonna be there, we hope we'll
see you
and,
stop
stop by and, and say hello or you
say at the Blueberry booth or wherever you
may run into us.
The,
there was a article
(04:19):
I sent you a list of show notes.
I don't know if you got that or
not. Yeah. I have it. Yeah. But I
I got something that I,
got from
Tom Webster and their team a few days
ago
that I did not include
in that. And it's it's entitled,
(04:40):
what is a podcast
supposed to be? And the and the title
of the SoundsTropical Arcra starts out with despite
what scary headlines may say,
video and audio podcasting have a more symbiotic
relationship
than one might think, and there's a very
good chart. I don't know if you've seen
this or not.
No. I haven't seen the actual chart. So
(05:02):
the question was asked,
and this was given to 5,000
let's see here.
5,000
humans familiar with the term podcasting.
They were asked,
when you think of a podcast, do you
(05:23):
expect it to be audio or video?
26%
said audio only.
38%
said usually audio,
maybe video.
Mhmm.
21%
may said maybe either.
Usually video, maybe audio, 12%.
(05:46):
And this is the shocker,
video only 3%.
So this is pretty compelling data, I would
say, that even though video
has been dominating the headlines since, you know,
like, the last two years,
but the American public,
as Tom says, expect that a podcast,
(06:07):
at least 64%
of the time, to be an audio only
or audio dominant medium.
So
that
is surprising.
I think one can
read into that whatever they wanna read into
it. Yeah. But I think it's Because because
(06:27):
that data is kind of all over the
map, really, if you look at it.
I I would tend to agree that the
market has not been exposed
to this definition
of video as a podcast.
It's a
pretty recent phenomenon in the consciousness of the
world out there. So I would tend to
(06:48):
agree that
people do tend to link them together. But
as a solo,
you know, do they consider a video,
by itself a podcast? Only 3%. No. Right.
But that doesn't
that doesn't exclude all the other data that's
in there that shows that there's a correlation
(07:09):
in Oh, yeah. Perception. There's a there's definitely
a correlation, but it's it's it's good news.
It's 64%
expected in audio only or audio dominated medium.
K. But I wouldn't read into it that
it says to ignore video. So No. But
I'm saying that there's an expectation here
(07:29):
with actual usage. So what percentage
if any of the podcasts you consume are
on video?
Mhmm. And,
what percentage.
So zero to 24,
47%,
(07:50):
25 to 49, 22%,
50 to 74, 17%,
75 to 114%.
So about half,
were video.
So if the majority of consumer expect a
podcast to be audio forward, we expect the
usage to mirror that, but it didn't play
out that way
(08:12):
Mhmm.
Completely in this data.
So,
you know, perceptions are definitely changing, and things
have shifted. Now this was done sometime in
2024,
not in 2025.
So is this in the sounds profitable website
or something? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's sounds profitable.
(08:34):
Yeah. I didn't have it in the show
notes.
Yeah.
So,
but, yeah, it was a it was an
email that came out about nine hours ago.
Okay. From, from Tom and the team.
Mhmm. So,
yeah. So I thought it was interesting
(08:54):
in itself. And, of course, you and I
have been in,
some WhatsApp groups where there's been some lively
discussion.
And,
I will say that it's a little
pessimistic, don't you think?
Well,
the state of podcasting and the state of
(09:15):
the medium right now is it it is
very cloudy is what is the term that
I would use to describe it,
around the where it's going, what the future
is, you know, this play between audio and
video. And people are,
you know,
this is an example of a era that
we're going through,
(09:36):
of change. Right? And, you know, I think
if you think back to the early years
of podcasting,
the contrast was between radio and podcasting. Right?
So
podcasting at that time was audio and video
in the early years. Right. Right. So in
some ways we're kind of going back to
the the origins of podcasting.
(09:56):
While at the same time, podcasting is becoming
a very highly commercialized,
highly professionalized
medium
as a replacement.
Oh,
Rob just froze.
Oh, wonder if he's gonna disappear here.
(10:20):
Wow. Yeah. I mean, he froze
oh, he froze for a second, Rob.
Fees and and ways to generate revenue
have come into podcasting. So Yeah.
Yeah. You froze for a second. I don't
know what happened.
Okay.
And so a lot of that commercialism
(10:42):
because you and I both know, and this
was in the discussion in this
group that a lot of people just don't
understand the early years of podcasting
was
anti commercial.
Anti,
you know, a person selling out to advertisers.
You know, I did a commercial commercial radio
show that had ads in it, and I
(11:02):
I got flack. And I know you did
too because you had a sponsor. Yeah.
So, you know, that was that's the contrast
of the past
as opposed to what we see in the
future. And what we see now
is that we're we're becoming more like mainstream
media. Right?
Look at programmatic advertising.
(11:23):
Edsel looks an awful lot like broadcast radio
monetization.
So if you think about it,
a lot of people don't like to think
about it in that context. They like to
think of it as something
different and unique and all that stuff. But,
you know,
set, ad breaks in your content.
It's exactly what commercial radio does.
(11:45):
So, you know, and then having it automated,
it's just adding a layer of technology on
top of, something that was done by in
studio
producer. Right? That was managing a board and
transitioning between ads
on their board. I used to do it
with my radio show, so I know exactly
how it works.
And so it's just a matter of
(12:06):
yeah. So I think what's happening in the
medium right right now is, is we're in
this transition phase,
in
what's happening in industry that kind of has
its roots in the past.
Back when podcasting started, it was a revolution,
really against the commercialization
(12:27):
of broadcast.
And
and for a few years, it was an
anti commercial
medium. I'm talking about podcasting.
And so now we've kind of moved into
a new phase where we've
added,
more commercial elements. You know, there's a lot
more focus on monetization and people making money
with their podcasts and programmatic advertising, which mirrors
(12:50):
exactly what broadcast radio has been done on
the air for years and ad loads are
going up. And so you can see a
direct correlation. In the early years, podcasting was
a lot about video too.
So we we become what we were trying
to avoid.
Exactly. And things go in full cycle. And
I think
Rocky Thomas made a comment in this thread
(13:12):
as well that kind
of put a little ribbon and bow on
this that she's been through. She's seen this
cycle happen before with streaming radio and and
other types of media that has tried to
transition audiences into a new delivery method.
And so that's what's happened here. We've transitioned
(13:32):
our audience into a new delivery method for
content. And
that's why that's why we've seen a lot
of the big,
studios and
commercial radio companies
transition into doing more podcasting is because they
saw it as the future of their distribution.
And that's really what we're talking about here.
So
(13:53):
if if that's, you know, if we're okay
with that, my question is, well, what's the
next revolution
that we're gonna create,
as a blowback to over commercialization
again?
What's next?
That's a good question. I don't know.
Yeah. Or it may be too soon or
(14:14):
we may be seeing it already start.
Alright. Let's get into the, the stack of
stuff here
that I have.
Oh, god. I'm gonna edit the shit out
of this thing. There's a,
podcast study that says that more listeners
most listeners make room for just three podcasts
a week.
(14:35):
A ruthless attention ceiling every creator now competes
with. Now, but that to me
is is a little surprising
in in regards to
that goes against everything we've heard for many,
many years.
And that was done I don't know. Someone
did this study
and said they only listen to three shows.
(14:58):
Most listeners, I guess, average listeners maybe, but
seems a little low to me.
Well, I think that there's been a lot
of research over the years that says that,
a typical podcast consumer has has had, like,
six or maybe seven subscriptions
in their podcast app. Right? So that's been
(15:19):
the long standing
metric that I've seen in the Edison research
and things like that. But that doesn't speak
to,
how much they're actually
listening
to. So maybe they're only listening to half
of those
that they have in their subscription list. Yeah.
But it also says weekly, which,
(15:39):
is a
vector in in here too.
What if you said,
monthly?
What would that number be? Would that be
the six and seven? Right.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, you know, again, and it it
goes into this, how do you, you know,
how do you stay in these, you know,
the the top three rotation of a listener?
(16:03):
And, really, in the end, it it hasn't
been about staying in the rotation of the
of the top three. It's been about
just building an audience that's dedicated to you.
You know?
There's probably, in my
hard rotation, five or six right now, and
then I catch can as catch can. But
(16:26):
Well, it also is unclear
in one aspect of it is that it
uses the word
three podcasts a week. Is that implying that
it listens to
three different podcasts or that it listens to
three
episodes
a week?
I think it applies. It's only three shows
(16:47):
that they listen to. K. But that that
doesn't really help us because maybe they're maybe
those two of the three shows are doing
two episodes a week. Does that mean that
they're
consuming
every episode on weekly basis of three different
shows? Well, it was it was an eye
catching headline. So Well, it was right. And
it's Yeah. This is where
(17:08):
research and studies kinda fall apart is that
they're not clear because the questions they asked
probably Yep. Didn't cause the questioner to I
agree. Get clear.
Also, and and this kinda surprises me. He
says podcast ad spend is 28 up 28%
year over year.
Magellan AI shows continued advertising demand ad load
(17:31):
rose
8.13%
from 8% quarter one.
Okay. If this is the true if this
is true
I don't think it's true.
Then why is Gimlet,
getting rid of a 100 people?
Right. Yeah. No question. Well, there's always been
this onslaught of positive news about the advertising
(17:52):
market. Right? Yeah.
You know,
I don't hear any bad news ever get
announced publicly about advertising market to you. 28%
year over year
expansion. But this isn't Magellan. This is the
marketing arm of,
of,
the the company that should be not named.
(18:16):
Who's Well, isn't
isn't that,
oh my god. I'm having a brain fart
here. SoundStack or not SoundStack.
SoundCloud. Isn't that SoundCloud's
marketing arm?
I don't think so. I think it's a
data data Oh, maybe not. Yeah. I think
(18:37):
it's a data you know, it's an analytics.
Yeah. Magellan AI. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So, apparently, they're analyzing
ad load.
But the question is how deep do they
really, really, really go?
28%.
Yeah. That's that's if that's the case, everyone
should be rolling in money. There should not
be a problem with the
(18:58):
with the, podcast economy from a advertising standpoint.
Right. I've heard I mean, the most optimistic,
projection that I've seen is 12% growth.
So
this year,
that's what they're projecting for all for advertising.
(19:19):
Yeah. Yeah.
That's what they're talking about here. So
yeah,
of course, 28%
would be a significant up from what
many others have projected
is the growth.
IHeart says that they, podcast now make up
14.3%
of their revenue.
(19:39):
IHeart podcast
plus 28% to a 134,000,000.
It's amazing how those numbers are very close.
And now 14 I would think that the
iHeart folks would have to tell the truth
here because they have
fiduciary responsibilities
to their shareholders. Yeah. Potential.
Radio is down 7%,
(20:02):
but podcasts are surging a clear signal that
legacy audio growth engine is on demand. Now
I think it's true on the radio piece
being down
the type of numbers that they're down, and
that doesn't surprise me at all.
Yeah. It's not falling off a cliff, but
it's definitely
declining
every year.
(20:23):
But at the same time
less important. Right. Those of you that live
outside The United States and Canada, Spotify is
raising your,
your cost of your your subscription.
So, you know, it's gonna cost you more.
And, they're trying to push this all all
(20:43):
audio bundle, pushing creators to expect
churn blips and renewed bundling promos.
So Spotify's hiking premium pricing
in most countries.
I refuse to give them any money.
I wonder if that premium pricing is ad
free. Is that what it means? That's that's
a good question.
(21:04):
Or does that include advertising? I think it
still includes some ads.
And, and they're probably speaking more about the
music side here.
Yeah. Like, because that's the largest part of
their business.
So, yeah.
Oh, I thought that this story was interesting.
(21:25):
The,
but the next one down the
DSTV
cancels to
unfiltered
TV podcast. Now that's a term for you
right there. TV podcast. Apparently, these folks,
said it was too risky. And, you know,
what did they expect signing some podcast
that it would be risky?
(21:46):
You know, porting podcast to linear TV is
risky.
Well
Isn't that that the whole point of signing
a podcast is that it's a little bit
more content risky? Well, you know,
yes, they need some oversight
and compliance.
You know? They probably said the f word
too many times, you know?
That's Or some, you know, or something to
that effect.
(22:08):
Yeah. But, you know, I'm just like
yeah. If if It's risky. Podcasts are risky.
Yeah. Yeah.
So because the content is so, oh, so
so bold and Out there. Yeah. Right? Some
of the stuff that I've seen on TV,
you know, makes me think it had to
be pretty extreme
Right. Considering some of the stuff that's out
(22:29):
there today that is, I mean, like, wow.
I mean, like, really,
wow.
Yeah. You know? Probably should I think there
was used to be rules about that type
of content being on past 9PM at night
or something like that. You know? But
teenagers don't go to sleep anymore. So I
guess
those rules don't apply.
(22:49):
So
my question for these folks is that,
what were the ratings on the
unfiltered
TV podcast versus the filtered TV podcast? Yeah.
That would be curious to know, wouldn't it?
It'd be be a good a good that'd
be the good stat.
That'd be the good good stat to have.
(23:09):
I had a, interesting
I was,
we announced a slide on the podcast awards
couple weeks ago, and,
of course, I'm I'm talking to all the
creators via email, and I'm saying, hey. Make
sure your listings are right and make sure
your links to your home pages are good
and, you know, just just double check your
(23:31):
listings. And one of the
one of the, creators came back and said,
well, we don't have a home page. And
I'm like,
really?
Yeah. We haven't had time.
And, well, obviously, they are doing good enough.
They made the slate without a homepage.
And then another,
podcaster said, well, our our homepage is behind
a a paywall.
(23:52):
And I'm like, so you have a public
podcast
that's available publicly, but your homepage
is behind a paywall.
And I said, isn't that impacting
your
your search results and discovery? And
so it's it's real curious on
some of the setups that people have.
(24:14):
And,
of course, a few folks were upset that
we went and linked to their YouTube channel.
I said there's no way for anyone to
subscribe to your show via RSS
via YouTube. So,
right,
yeah. So that was, you know, probably went
over like a fart in church, but, yeah,
it's my it's my rules.
(24:37):
Audio boom. What what do you say?
That's mostly the case now for any any
kind of,
video out there,
really. I mean, until
podcasting decides to get get video back into
RSS more
Ted. This concept of
subscribing
to a to a video is kind of
(24:58):
out the window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it
still amazes me. I mean, the number of
people when I say, oh, we have a
video podcast on Apple Podcasts are like, what?
Yeah. What is that? It's there it is
almost always a what? You know? They they
just Yeah. They don't know.
So that that that story continues.
(25:20):
Top
top 10
UK podcast reached 2,300,000
Americans weekly. Well, I would think so. This
we were both English speeding speaking countries, so
I would assume
there's a lot of, a lot of crossover
there.
So
Todd, have you felt this too that,
(25:41):
there's something about content that's created over in
The UK that
that sparks interest here,
more
over the last maybe the last couple of
years or the last year. I I don't
know if it's because of the,
the fascination with, you know, the podcast show
or people. I don't know. It just feels
(26:03):
like that The UK
content is
somehow maybe maybe seen as a little more
appealing?
Well,
I I have subscribed to none of it,
so I'm not one to be able to
speak to it.
Yeah. I'm not talking about us personally. Yeah.
But
just general attention. One question is what are
(26:23):
the categories? The public radio had
for many years as quality.
Yeah.
But the question is what is the Slow.
What what are the, froze again. Yeah. I
can hear you though.
Can you hear me?
Yeah. I can hear you. So the question
is what categories
I could hear you the whole time, Rob.
(26:44):
What categories
were,
are affected here? That's the, you know, that's
the question I have is okay. Top 10,
but what are the categories of those podcasts?
Yeah.
But audio boom, video revenue doubled 60% of
creators now do video, 13% of biz from
(27:04):
video.
So
that's interesting.
Yeah. They're gonna change their company name to
VideoBoom
from AudioBoom?
Yep. That's an interesting question, Todd. And where
and where is that revenue coming from? Is
this stuff that they're they're monetizing in YouTube?
(27:27):
Or,
you know, where where is that actually happening
at?
It's probably likely mostly YouTube.
Yeah. Probably starting to phase in a little
bit on the Spotify side is my my
estimate.
You know, who knows? Maybe audio boom becomes,
you know, a podcast boom.
Oh.
(27:49):
Yeah.
Well,
As podcast
increasingly
takes the label of audio and video.
So I don't know. Yeah. The conversations that
I've been having with, creators, I've been
(28:12):
they're very
reserved
in
wanting to do audio I mean, video.
Yeah.
And I can see that. Yeah. It's,
it's just ongoing. They're like,
you know, so to. Do I have to?
It's that kind of a Right. You know,
(28:34):
do I have to? And then, you know,
the work
and the money.
You know? And, you know, that's the that's
the kind of probably complicated because may maybe
if you filter that against people that have
been doing audio podcast for many years and
are contemplating it, and then those that
are just getting started? Well, maybe.
(28:56):
But these are mostly people are just getting
started.
Are they? Okay. Yeah. That I've been talking
to. So,
you know, I just I always tell them,
hey. Audio
first is safe. You know, just
get your voice heard. Let your, you know,
build your your vocalization
skills. You know? Mhmm.
(29:17):
So but did did I tell you that
they're put they put the fiber?
Oh, I didn't. The fiber's actually been installed
in front of my house.
But it's not to your your Well unit
quite yet? It's they're they're blowing it in.
So
probably it'll be
several months before it's actually hooked up. But
(29:37):
Yeah. Because they have to trench it to
your place. Oh, it's well, they have to
they've it's it's at least now
well, I would say 60 feet
to 80 feet, maybe
from from my house. It's, you know, it's
there's there's fiber in the dirt. Let's just
put it that way.
Okay.
And It's coming down the driveway.
(29:59):
Well, it's down the road.
You know?
And, Oh, you mean down the road in
front of your place? That's right. Yeah. It's
But not actually
connecting. No. They're not doing any up your
driveway. They're just bringing the main lines in.
Oh, yeah. So, yeah, and,
Frontier has a heck of a thing. I
I think once we get on that, seven
(30:19):
gig is the plan I'm gonna sign up
for.
Wow. So,
yeah, that that that should not cause us
to stutter anymore when the Starlink antennas are
are choking. Yeah. You would hope.
You know? So is that kind of a
bidirectional
thing? Or Yeah. Seven up, seven down.
Wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
(30:40):
I'm not even getting that much here. No.
I probably won't sign up for seven gig
plan. 500.
They've got a five gig plan, but it's,
you know, it's all relative. You you still
are limited.
You you know, you have to have the
equipment here to be able to support
That speed. That type of speed. Yeah. And
luckily, I do,
because I came from the, you know, the
(31:02):
studio where we had the gig. So everything's
been wired here for high speed. It's just
I don't have it.
What's seven
seven gigs? Yeah. They offer seven gigs.
100 Is that $159.
Does that require entirely different hardware to support
the It does. Five gig does too.
(31:23):
Yeah. So,
and a a year commitment.
So the equipment's worth about $500
that they're bringing in.
So
So what's the capacity of,
of Wi Fi?
Oh, you you yeah. Yeah. If you're connecting
via Wi Fi, then you're just gonna be
on Starlink speeds. It's there's unless you're on
(31:44):
Wi Fi seven.
You know, Wi Fi seven is not that
quick.
And most stuff is Wi Fi six now.
So I'm just curious.
Yeah. Because I think
if I access
my,
Wi Fi
connection to my house here,
because I get about half half a gig
(32:06):
is my plan currently right now. But I
bet you only get about
Down.
I bet you only get about,
Wi Fi six is can theoretically reach up
to 9.6 gigs, but it you know, you
gotta have the right equipment.
Wi Fi seven is 46 gigs, but, again,
you gotta have the right equipment.
(32:29):
Wi Fi five is 3.5,
and that's a lot of stuff still right
now.
There's still,
you know, Internet thing devices are still connected,
over Wi Fi four too. So
Okay. I just I'm doing a speed test
on my
wifi here on my phone, which is over
wifi.
(32:51):
And it looks like,
download speed 237
megs.
Yeah.
That would that's what I would expect.
Yeah.
But it's interesting it doesn't test for upload
speed. So that's gonna be, you know, if
it did if it lives true to the
word and it, you know, it works.
(33:12):
But again, I don't know how long it's
gonna take them to get
turn things terminated and
then start offering the service. It could be
another year. Who knows?
Yeah. Because I mean,
I mean, what would you possibly even be
able to use seven gigs for that would
Oh, if you had server you could run
servers
(33:33):
literally.
Yeah. You could. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You could.
I had much slower servers back in the
early days. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine having
a seven gig connection in this you know,
that's
and, of course, I'm sure that there is
a express
that's probably expressly forbidden
with your service contract. You know? I would
yeah. I would imagine.
(33:55):
But,
yeah. I think I'll be happy with one
gig, to be frank,
you know?
Well, for most applications Yeah. For most purposes,
that's plenty. That's plenty. Even even my mobile
phone speed of 266
megs down is
I mean, can't have been a mess. We're
only pushing seven megs right now. That's the
(34:15):
speed I push on the output.
Yeah. So,
you know, seven megs, seven gigs, there's a
big difference there. I can run 25 or
100 streams at once. But again,
you're not. But not. Right. Right. Yeah.
But yeah. So the
there must be a good reason
(34:37):
to offer that kind of bandwidth. It's just
a bigger number looks better?
Well, yeah. It's probably
a from a marketing perspective, it looks better.
But do most people even know what the
difference is? Well, it's probably designed if you
have 20 kids.
Right. Or if you have a large Yeah.
Family
that has
(34:57):
lots of devices connecting. Yeah. And in in
this, you know, here, it's just me.
You know, next door, my sister's, you know,
she's got a lot of kids connecting to,
you know,
they're even more constrained. So sometimes they connect
to my
connection to be able to so kids kids
can play games and stuff. So,
(35:18):
so I have to change my password every
once in a while
to boot them all off for a little
bit.
Yeah. So,
the talk about podcast movement? I'm sorry?
Did you wanna talk
more about what's coming up with podcast movement?
One of the articles that's out is,
(35:40):
Nielsen is launching podcast fusion.
It's a planning and measurements
step change for agencies
to include NPR and Ocean Media.
So you're back. Yeah. You froze for a
second again there. Yeah. So,
I don't know what this really means. It
says with Edison data into NMI,
(36:01):
that's not even a term I even know.
So
Nielsen Nielsen's another product to extract money out
of people.
And, yeah, are they even relevant anymore, Nielsen?
Well, they've been servicing the radio industry for
(36:22):
years.
I know that they've wanted to transition more
into the digital side, but
that's what their,
their research has always been based on
trying to analyze
advertising effectiveness
and
market
market ratings and things like that is what
they've
(36:42):
mostly done over the years.
Did you,
you before you froze a second ago, did
you have anything more that you had heard
on heard about podcast movement? Any rumors? Any
things that we should be looking out for?
I mean, I think it'll all the activity
around the podcast standards project that's going on
(37:04):
down there probably probably should have a mention.
And
and it looks like mister Adam Curry is
gonna be there doing doing a presentation, which
I think we've talked about that on the
show before. But Yep.
But I've
gotten into the app, and I've got my
arrangements. Actually, I fly in on the seventeenth
and leave on the twenty first. So I'm
(37:25):
I'm there for the duration.
Oh,
so I get in on Sunday as well.
You do. Okay. So and I I leave
on,
the twenty second because the show doesn't end.
Yeah. So it's smart. You're getting out there
and not having to pay for another hotel
day.
Yeah. Yeah.
I did a personal I'm renting a car
(37:46):
personally, not charging against the company
Uh-huh. Because I wanna go bourbon hunting a
little bit.
So,
Sunday when I get in, I'm going to,
hit a few. If there's anybody in Dallas
that can give me some recommendations
on I have a list already, but if
you have any recommendations on
where to go,
(38:06):
striking bourbon, let me know.
I have I have room in my suitcase
to bring four bottles back. So
Okay.
So that's kinda my thing now is when
I'm in a different place. I
when I was in Chicago the other day
coming back, I would
I had a few hours before I got
on the train, so I
(38:27):
found a couple of,
selections that I can't get in mix Michigan.
And,
but
I tell you,
you, the,
it's completely not related and probably shouldn't talk
about it, but Amtrak
has gotten real strict. They're they now are
checking bag weights, bag sizes. My bag was
(38:49):
over by an inch, so they charged me
$20.
And,
it just
it cracks me up, you know, all these
years running loose, and now they're
now they're gonna be,
try try to,
be more strict on their weights.
(39:09):
So
yeah. But, anyway, it's a it's still a
good ride coming back. It's amazing how many
people,
are actually travel traveling on Amtrak. I would
have never had any idea it was they
would have full trains
like they do.
But it's cheaper than parking in Chicago. That's
for sure.
Yeah.
Well, I've heard a lot of people talk
(39:30):
about the location
of the Gaylord being kind of a long
ways from Dallas.
It's like a forty minute drive. It's close
to the airport.
Well, it is close to the airport. That
is true. Yeah. Yeah. But it's
kind of in a well, it's to the
Northwest
(39:51):
of the airport by a few few miles.
So this it's really in the no man's
land. So
Yeah. It's out towards the there's some lake
there or something like that that it's on.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you you know, there's there's
no you're you're a captive audience there a
100%.
Yeah. I know that the the closest alternative
hotel that I
(40:12):
I found was like a mile away.
And what was the price on that?
Most of the hotels in the proximity around
it
are are around a $100,
$125
away.
That's that's considerably cheaper.
They all range from, like, one mile to
(40:35):
two miles away from the hotel
from the the Gaylord.
Right.
So,
you know, you could save, you know, a
significant amount of money. I think
the typical,
I guess, block rate for podcast movement is
around $2.50 a night. I think we paid
more than that.
(40:56):
Well, from what I've gathered in the in
this discussion group that we're both a member
of, is that, a couple of months ago,
people,
people,
many people paid like over $300
Oh,
for for a ticket. And then here more
(41:16):
recently,
the the price dropped.
Oh, that's interesting.
Let me go to my email,
and
let me look.
So there were people that had registered
at some period in the time, you know,
in the past
Yeah. That that canceled their reservations and rebooked,
(41:39):
and they got, like, a $100 discount.
So okay. My rate is $2.54.
Yeah. That's that's the current rate.
And we booked that on
June
23.
Okay.
So that's the current rate then.
(42:00):
Yeah. So I'm not sure what was going
on with that, but
yeah. I've heard that,
but there can be pretty severe penalties for
the podcast movement event.
If they don't sell out their their block.
Right.
And there's still rooms available in the block?
I have not got the impression that there
(42:21):
are not.
So so I I think currently there still
is. Oh.
But I'm not for sure. I didn't
actually, I went a different route on that.
So
okay. Juice points or did you you room
in with somebody?
Yeah.
Okay. That's that's smart.
(42:41):
Yeah. $254
a night, and you're just going up there
to crash. If someone's got a room with
a dual bed,
you know,
why not?
I mean I mean, because if you split
it, then it's only like 125.
Yeah. Yeah. Then it's it's more reasonable. Easy
that's a easier pill to swallow for sure.
(43:03):
It is. Yeah. And especially if you get
along with the person. Yeah.
That is at all the alternative hotels around
it,
as well. So
that's about the best that you're gonna Yeah.
Get. The only difference is is you're gonna,
you know, you pay the the on premises
prices for food and everything.
(43:24):
Yeah. Or or or try just not to
eat very much. Well, yeah. And do do
do Uber
Uber Eats or, you know No. No. Do
a fast. Oh, do a fast. Those three
days. Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that's I I have to eat at
least once a day. So
(43:45):
Yeah. I mean, that's that's what I typically
do, but you could. I mean, if you're
really busy at an event, I mean, a
lot of people don't
think that they can. Right? Yeah. It's a
mental block, but you actually can. Well, I'm
in. I've gone
seven days without eating, so and I was
perfectly fine. Yeah. It's the first two or
three days that's hard to get over. But
(44:07):
for me now, I'm
I just, you know, it's
I just I stepped on the scale the
the other day, and I was at one
seventy nine. So I'm one seventy nine, one
eighty
right now. And,
trying to get to one seventy seven and
that will be 30 pounds, but,
That's good. Yeah. Yeah. A pound or so
(44:27):
a week.
Yeah.
So is there anything else that you've heard,
Todd, at all? I haven't heard a lot
of Haven't heard nothing.
Rumors about the event. I haven't even looked
at who the keynote speakers are, to be
honest with you. I haven't paid much. I'll
probably do that on the airplane.
So it looks like,
(44:48):
Justin Jackson's
gonna be doing a video podcast in RSS
plus HLS streaming session
on the eighteenth. That's gonna be at the
Podcast Standards Project,
room,
I think.
It's in well, it's in Dallas 3 Classroom
at the Gaylord.
(45:09):
Yeah.
It's kind of a community meetup is what
it is. Yeah. That's in the PSP meeting
area.
Yeah. It doesn't say anything about PSP here,
but I'm assuming it is. Yeah. There are
yeah.
They've got something scheduled each day,
for that room. So
got it. Have some some discussions.
(45:32):
So it's
Dave Jackson's doing another presentation.
So so many ways to monetize. Which one
is best
for you.
Is the topic of his talk.
And I mean it's
(45:53):
it's a clue to some degree what, what
the thinking in the industry is just by
looking at the headlines
of the sessions. Yeah.
The titles of the sessions. So there's one
with Brian Barletta
and Sean Howard from,
flight path, which is a ad buying platform.
Winning the video first podcast future
(46:15):
insights for creators, tech teams and revenue generators.
So
in the subtitle is the video boom and
podcasting is no longer on the horizon. It's
here.
Okay.
That's it.
9AM
on,
on Tuesday, the nineteenth. Well, he's got a
good time slot.
(46:35):
Yeah.
Well,
hopefully, people are awake by then.
Well, the keynote's at eight or something like
that, so
you would hope.
As much money as people are spending to
go to this event, I would think that
they would be
attending most of the sessions. You would you
would think.
(46:59):
But So the actual ticket ticket that I
got was about $300.
So
so it's not their
top end ticket. Right? Right.
Their their pro ticket. So
What is it? I don't even know what
the pro even gets you on that event.
I think it's over a thousand.
Yeah. Probably get you fed and everything else.
(47:21):
Probably.
Yeah. They can. It looks like
Adam Curry's on stage with Rocky Thomas
at 09:45AM.
On what day? On the
nineteenth.
Which is
that's Tuesday.
Tuesday. So I think my
my dealio is on Wednesday,
(47:43):
I think, Wednesday morning. I was asked to
be on a panel too, and I I
don't know what time it is. I gotta
I'm not listed. It's it must be some
unofficial panel.
But Tracy sent me a message. I gotta
go look it up.
And
there's another
(48:03):
panel title, your holy shift
audio alone won't pay the bills. Oh, that's
not true.
That one's
the panel is,
Heather Osgood,
Steve,
Razzies, who used to work for Paramount.
(48:24):
Advertising. Advertising.
Yeah.
So
Yeah. So even the podcast
advertising platforms are Yeah. Definitely
pushing pushing
video.
Right.
Yeah.
Well, we we will see.
But but the question is back to I
(48:45):
mean, it's gonna be host reads into,
let's say, a YouTube show. You have to.
So Yeah. Yeah. That's the only alternative that
you have. Yep. Yep. It's
which, you know, for many of those businesses,
that's that's their bread and butter. So
Yeah.
And then another one is called powering the
future of multi channel podcast networks.
(49:08):
Mhmm. So
I thought podcast networks are already multi channel.
Yeah.
So
that's just a sampling
of some of the Some of the sessions.
It does show kind of a
a focus and a direction.
You get any idea by looking at the
app? Of course, I think you can I
don't know if you can message attendees or
(49:29):
look at the attendee list? I don't know
if you can or not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
You can. Yeah. So you could probably get
a rough idea
how many how many attendees they are by
looking at that, but I don't think it
gives you an actual
total number. Yeah. Account. Yeah. I don't think
so either. And of course, a lot of
people don't add the app to heck, not
(49:49):
even when the show's going. So
Yeah.
So I've got the app open right now
and
people are starting to message each other in
here. But
and then,
Mattia from Triton Digital has a session he's
doing on that same day at 10:30AM called
(50:11):
why programmatic
audio wins when budgets get tight.
Boy, it's all about monetization,
So is that like
a a pro low CPM?
Well, there's some some stuff going on in
programmatic, and I I'm not too at liberty
to say, but I will say that
(50:33):
there are
upward movements in CPMs and programmatic.
What is driving that?
Is that dollars that are shifting out of
host reads?
I don't know where it's coming from, but
I know that there
is
a
(50:55):
well, all I know is that
there are
some price minimums that we're starting to get
guarantees
on for inventory.
Because it was always like this
and always moves by the hour.
But anytime you can get a price guarantee
on a,
(51:17):
a min,
you know,
and that,
you know, that's always awesome that you know
it won't go under.
It can go up, but it can't go
under a certain amount.
That to me is is is,
is is exciting in that regard. But
we still have I'm still getting queries from
(51:38):
companies that talk to me in, Europe that
want to
have a have a chunk of our programmatic,
and
I'm pretty happy with SoundStack. They've done a
great job. So
I don't really need to,
you know, do
any,
additional engineering.
(51:59):
Yeah. So we may see
it because I'm, I'm hearing just from talk
as I talk to people myself is that,
some of the kind of medium size larger
shows people are, people are noticing a higher
percentage
of programmatic ads
versus
maybe a more balanced approach for host reads
(52:21):
and programmatic. Right?
There tends to be this movement towards
if there's inventory
or
slots that need to get filled, they're not
getting filled by prerecorded host reads. They're getting
filled by programmatic
increasingly.
Which means lower CPMs.
Which means lower CPMs, but it also means
that,
(52:42):
maybe there's fewer host read buys
going through the system. But Rob, didn't didn't
someone say that sales are up 28%?
But it didn't specify what type of advertising
it was. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
So
if they're selling,
maybe there's a shift that's going on
you know, away from higher CPM
(53:03):
advise into lower CPM advise if they can
buy inventory into a large group of shows
or, you know, a targeted group of shows
that's programmatic.
And also
Spreaker has made an announcement that they're gonna
do AI generated host reads No. Under programmatic.
God. So
(53:23):
take the host's voice and clone it into
an ad. Yeah. I'm sure that's gonna be
effective.
Well,
I guess we're gonna find out.
And then another panel session in here is
how YouTubers thrive
in the podcasting space. So they are drawing
a distinction between the two, which
(53:47):
it's not like,
really YouTube is
a is a podcast really.
Yeah.
It looks like we froze again. Yeah. I
I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Yeah. I don't know what's going on. Yeah.
I I could hear you the entire time
even though your Okay. Your face froze.
(54:09):
Right.
Yeah. I'm gonna have to do some resetting
of my Internet connections here.
Something's weird. I don't know don't know why
it's been freezing. I I spent all day
on Zoom and it never locks, then I
get you on and it's
Right.
So there's
there's two other titles of sessions that are
(54:30):
interesting too. One is called pro level podcasting.
How to up level your video production without
breaking the bank.
One session
that's put on by,
I guess there's two Matthew passes in here.
So he's putting I get the
there's two speakers and they're both Matthew Passys.
(54:51):
So,
so I don't know if one's AI
or or not. So one of my recent
trends is in, you know, we get
sales inquiries all the time.
And,
company decides, oh, yeah. We're gonna we're gonna
go with you for your for pro hosting
and,
you know, we're gonna bring over three, four
(55:13):
shows and blah blah blah. And, you know,
and then all of a sudden, I get
dropped a
service agreement.
And, the service agreement has, you
know, eight pages of legal lease. And
I'm like, you're on a $100
a month hosting account, and you're dropping me
an eight page
(55:33):
legal document
with,
and I'm like, no.
Sorry.
You are
enterprise. They go, what is the difference between
enterprise and pro? I said, there's nothing
difference. It's the it's the
the lawyer hours that I am gonna get
billed
(55:54):
by going over your service agreement.
Right.
And it's amazing how many companies have to
have a
you know, have to have this, have these
separate documents and they say, well, you have
to appreciate. I'm like, well, you have to
appreciate
that I'm paying for lawyer reviews. And
(56:15):
if you're on an enterprise plan, you're gonna
include three hours of, you know, of cost,
of legal.
And, boy, they get mad. They get really
mad.
So you mean if I could just come
in and put my credit card down, it's
only a $100 a month? Yep.
And you're gonna charge me this amount because
I have to you have to do a
legal review?
(56:36):
Yep.
So
it's more and more of that. So where
I now are, I'm just, you know, telling
the sales team, make sure you tell them
if they have
a external agreement that they're gonna need and
just can't sign up our terms of service,
they're gonna be enterprise.
And,
(56:56):
and then I
I slap a
price on there that is
equivalent of an enterprise account.
Right.
So
big companies have a hard time
doing anything without all kinds of,
you know, paperwork,
(57:17):
red tape. Yep. All you wanna see are
certificate insurance.
Why? Right. Well, I you know, we're not
on your premises. We're not we're not working
in your building.
Or your
was it called your
SSO?
Oh, just
it's That's annoying. That's funny. Alright. We're already
at the time here. Even though the show
(57:39):
is gonna be shorter because we've had all
kinds of weird
freezing problems today. Makes my editing a night
for hell here, which sucks, but it's okay.
Rob, I guess there's nothing live happening for
us next week, so we'll be off again
Yeah. Next week, and then we'll come back
and give everyone a report after after the
(57:59):
event.
Yeah. Okay.
Sounds good.
So,
anyway,
I'm todd@blueberry.comatgeeknewson
x@geeknewsatgeeknews.chat
on Mastodon.
I'm
can be found at rob greenley dot com.
Rob.greenley@gmail.com.
(58:21):
And,
I'm on all the social platforms. I'm easy
to find on on on YouTube too. I'm
doing a bunch of stuff over there. So
So thanks for being with us today. And
if you're watching live, we,
sorry about
the froze screens. Yeah.
Starlink's not,
maybe they've they introduced a new algorithm.
So maybe it's great for staying connected, but
(58:43):
it's switching the satellites too often or something.
I don't know.
But I've been on Zoom all day and
I had a problem. And, of course, we
start the show and
ears glitching.
Issues. So alright, everyone. Thanks. We'll see you
next, two weeks from now. Everyone take care.
Yep. Yep. Bye. Bye.
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