The Shift from Word-of-Mouth to Social Media in Podcasting #628

In this episode, “The Shift from Word-of-Mouth to Social Media in Podcasting,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss the evolving landscape of podcast discovery, particularly how social media is becoming a primary driver rather than traditional word-of-mouth. The episode opens with Todd and Rob greeting listeners and mentioning the upcoming return to their regular … Continue reading The Shift from Word-of-Mouth to Social Media in Podcasting #628 →

The post The Shift from Word-of-Mouth to Social Media in Podcasting #628 appeared first on New Media Show.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Todd and Rob in the afternoon.
Hey. Afternoon
delight.
With Todd and Rob.
Oh, yeah.
I think it's more like Todd and Rob
in the evening, but,
starting next week.
Well, in the on the West Coast Of
The US, it's, what, 05:00. So I guess

(00:22):
it's still the afternoon technically. Still somewhere.
But,
starting next week, we I will be back
I'll be back in The States. So,
hopefully, no more OBS glitches.
Yeah. And we'll go back to 03:00?
Yep. Back to 03:00.

(00:42):
Okay. So we'll be back in the afternoon
for those of you that missed the afternoon
streams
at least for the time. Or the
or the lunch hour streams. Oh, yeah. That
yeah. That's that's true.
So sorry about last week. I just,
I I came down with something. It was
just like a twenty four hour.

(01:04):
I think what it was, I I just
hadn't been getting much sleep
and
it just kinda caught up to me. Well,
you know, Todd, I've been hearing,
that there's been a really high level
electromagnetic
storms that have been hitting the Earth over
the last,
couple weeks.
Is that supposedly affecting health?

(01:26):
It can affect your sleep, yeah, from what
I gather.
So it could could be causing some tossing
in
or
solar storms that erupted on the face of
the sun
that directed that energy right at the earth.
So I guess, supposedly, we're gonna get hit
by something

(01:47):
in the Southern
Hemisphere
on Thursday sometime.
So we'll see if there's power outages down
there.
Alright. Well,
we will see. I'm,
I'm getting on a jet plane Sunday morning
my time, which is
Saturday afternoon your time and
or evening or something like that.

(02:08):
Yeah. And, flying to San Francisco then in
Chicago and then to train to Michigan. So,
we'll see. We'll see how it goes.
Wouldn't that be funny?
Anyway,
a couple weeks here since we've been talking
about podcasting and,
you sent me over some, some commentary. So

(02:30):
a word-of-mouth is no longer the,
the primary way
that people are discovering podcasts supposedly. Who who
who came up with that?
Well, this has been popping up in the
research even from Edison and,
you know, the share rear and things like
that have been doing doing some deep diving
deep diving on this as well.

(02:52):
And I think if you have to really
back up and you have to look at
kind of like two factors here, and I
think we we can dive into the details
of this.
People
commenting about podcasts on social media and all
sorts of things like that that are
really very similar to word-of-mouth sharing. So I
think, you know, we may have seen this
trend go on for a while, but people

(03:14):
maybe were
misinterpreting,
word-of-mouth,
you know, not including social media.
So, you know, I think it's a big
thing. And then the other big one is
this, you know, perception and to some degree,
it's popping up in all the research that
that YouTube is considered to be a social

(03:34):
media platform,
which
in my mind raises
another bigger question is, you know, podcasting is
podcasting kind of a social
media type of a medium as well.
I mean, is everything becoming kind of like
social media right now? Right? I I don't
know. It's just
something to ponder. Right? As we think about

(03:56):
how people are finding content on, like, Instagram
and TikTok and all these
shorts
platforms
and how this is all kind of like
podcasters are tapping into all this stuff to
reach new audiences. So
this is a a topic that is a
little bit shifted, but I don't think it's
that much of a shift away from,

(04:16):
you know, people individually sharing a podcast. I
think that still goes on. I think that
came up number two.
Yeah. That's it's curious because
yeah. You know,
I guess,
you know, if you want to if they're
going to call YouTube a social media platform
then definitely

(04:37):
podcast is
a social media platform,
which you know, kind of a weird I
don't really consider
YouTube a place to engage
someone socially.
No, that's true.
That's, I mean, that's a good observation, Todd.
I think that the YouTube has not done
a good job of making it kind of

(04:58):
like a social media type of a platform
though.
There's elements of it are that that are,
I mean, comments come through and people
talk back and forth.
Like, it happens on this show sometimes. Right?
Yeah. It mainly happens on
Facebook. Right?
Which is truly a social media platform. So

(05:19):
but it you know, I don't know. There's
research that's coming out that's pointing in this
direction. So I just wonder if just all
online media is kind of converging on itself.
Well,
you know, the considering the interactions I have
with the audience on here and in

(05:42):
my, you know, Geek News Central,
the social interaction there is usually
a lot less than what I get in
someplace like Facebook or x.
So
and I can't remember the last time someone
told me they discovered my show because of
social media.

(06:04):
Again,
the way the logarithm works on Facebook,
you know, they it's very
rare do I get exposed
to anyone's,
content
or anyone's
in anyone that I don't know already,
you know, besides ads being thrown at me

(06:26):
and reels
that really are, you know,
you know, usually stupid stuff. Nothing of any
consequence. You know, a cow licking somebody's face
or something dumb like that. You You know,
not necessarily
a
quote unquote
I I don't I don't get this,

(06:47):
urging need to go find this person and
and subscribe to their content.
Yeah. Well, it's like a separate consumption experience
just, you know, separately. Right? It's two minutes
or a minute long content. And once you're
done, you're moving on to the next thing.
And and YouTube definitely surfaces
new content for me.

(07:08):
Sure. I see that.
Yeah.
But sometimes it gets annoying
and it's predictable.
There's a
here in The Philippines,
they it's there's a pretty amazing ecosystem. You
had asked me before we
started if I had a vehicle here and

(07:28):
I don't.
And,
public transportation
and Uber
like services are
real popular here. But I've I've become interested
and they have this,
and most people that have never been to
Asia probably have no idea what I'm referring
to. But,
in the nineties,

(07:48):
Suzuki had a series of vehicles that
were really three cylinder, four cylinder, very small
powered like 50 horsepower.
And I always used to kind of laugh
at these vehicles because they were,
I guess the best word for them would
be,

(08:08):
you wouldn't want to get a wreck with
one.
You know, they're pretty small. They're pretty small.
You know, they're they're they're like So were
they four wheeled vehicles? Yeah. Four wheeled vehicles
but you know maximum
four people and you know little storage area.
But what they've done is,
they cut them up in Japan

(08:29):
and they ship them to The Philippines and
then very in very industrious people put the
vehicles back together,
upgrade them, lift them,
paint them, you know, modernize, accessorize them and
do everything except for well, they go through
the transmission and the top end of the
motor and then they're selling these things. They're

(08:51):
selling them for like $4,000
and they're wildly
popular.
And I'm thinking, if I come back again,
this might be
because I just need a putt putt vehicle
to get around. I don't need something to
go very far. Right?
And,
and I thought, yeah. These are kind of

(09:11):
cute
and, so I got to watching some videos
on that and of course YouTube immediately started
firing me all kinds of car videos and
you know stuff that's like, okay. I was
just watching this one channel.
I don't need 82 channels of the same
thing. So, you know, YouTube is pretty predictable

(09:32):
in that regard. If you seek something out,
then it starts see serving you
like content. So I don't know. I again,
I'm not watching podcast
on YouTube, so I'm not really being fed
other podcast.
But those probably some of those shows look
like maybe their podcasts. Right? No. I don't

(09:53):
watch have a I don't watch a microphone
or something. I don't watch any of those
shows on YouTube.
If they're not on Apple Podcasts, I don't
listen to them. I don't I don't listen
to,
shows that look like a podcast on YouTube.
So what kind of shows do you watch
on
on YouTube?

(10:14):
People that are out in the wilderness surviving
series types of shows where people are living
their life, you know, living their life.
Whether it be I used to be big
in the van life. You know, I was
watching that those types of series before then
I was into the people that were sailing.
So I wasn't necessarily watching interview shows or

(10:35):
talking. There's probably one, maybe one that I
watch on YouTube, but it's usually a short
and it's never their full length,
their full length video because it it's annoying.
They'll start off, they'll do two minutes and
then they'll promote some product or merch.
So I don't watch Are you watching on
your phone mainly? No. No. TV

(10:57):
and TV. Never watch YouTube on my phone.
Oh, so you're watching shorts on your television?
Oh, yeah. Those are pop well, shorts being
two or three minutes.
So it's really I can it's not a
short per se, vertical short. It's just
cuts,
you know, segments that they someone has put
up, but I never watch a full length.

(11:17):
I never watch Rogan. I never I don't
watch any of those. You know, I've got
more time to listen still than I do
to watch. So
okay. You know, I don't spend I can't
spend hours and hours and hours in front
of the TV.
Yeah. So I guess, you know, I guess
what what you're symbolizing to me is that

(11:39):
there's a different
there's a wide range of different experiences that
people are having with content that's on YouTube.
Right? Yeah. There's other people that are, you
know, there's very, very huge numbers that I
see for shows that
are doing stuff just like we are here,
Todd. Yeah. I don't I don't It just
depends on what the topics are. Yeah. To
me, it's it doesn't move fast enough for

(12:02):
YouTube.
Or you I'm kind of a YouTube guy
that I want to be in and out
in twenty minutes.
And I don't want to be watching two
hour long or an hour and a half
stuff on YouTube.
I can listen to stuff that long but,
you know, my I guess my internal log
and everyone I'm sure is different.
Yeah. Well, I think that that's the big

(12:23):
takeaway. Yeah. Yeah. And if the pace and
I'm sure sometimes probably people become annoyed with
the pace of this show.
So, you know
Well, it's it you know, if you compare
this show to
many of the shows that are up there,
they're
they're more visually stimulating. Right? So, and I

(12:45):
think that's the that's the big distinguishing characteristic
here
is that, you know,
really I I see the most,
audience
gravitating towards shows that have lots of,
you know, like other visuals that pop up
on the screen. They run-in other clips or
whatever.
Yeah. Exactly. So you have, you know, a

(13:06):
conversation that runs in a certain direction.
We could certainly do that with this show
too, but
it's mainly done in, like, a tool like
a StreamYard or something like that where you
bring up a,
you know, like a short video or you
bring up a still image or you bring
up something in the background and you're able
to
refer to it or people draw on the
screen Yeah. Circle things and talk about things

(13:30):
and things like that, which is a much
more kind of visual production.
But, again, those are usually people that are
that. Those are usually shows where there's three
or four people in a in a studio
somewhere.
Very high end productions there. No. I mean,
I've I do it with my podcast tip
show all the time. Yeah. I do it
with with Geek and Central as well. So

(13:51):
even with So you're bringing up like a
well, like a screen? Yeah. Bring up a
screen. Screen grab or something like that. Right.
Yeah. It's very That's all I'm talking about.
I know a lot a lot of people
pre pre produce.
You can't You know, you can't see it,
but,
I can do it right now.
That's the only difference here is I don't

(14:11):
have a feedback mechanism to to show you.
But I, you know, I can bring up,
you know, I can bring up the screen,
you know, but boom. You know, It's not
it's not a big deal.
Well, it's a little bit more difficult because
I I mean, I do the this live
show I've been doing for for a while
too, and it's it's not as easy as

(14:31):
it is to do it in a in
a post produced video. Right? I mean, it's
really easy to use like a video editor
to just bring up,
you know, and just layer into the timeline
in a video editor, kind of like a
video overlay that will play.
I just published one today that had had
had video overlays and other

(14:54):
The challenge is is the copyright issues.
You know, they're so hardcore on
any motion video whatsoever,
interplayed in your content. The copyright strikes just
come quicker than,
you know, you play anyone else's YouTube video,
you play anyone else's content.
I haven't seen that, Todd. I've been doing

(15:15):
it for months now. Oh, that it hasn't
caught up to you. If you and if
you're using other people's contents in
and playing live video,
do you play the audio at the same
time that's in those videos?
Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's that's just Like, I
yeah. Like, I played, some videos that I

(15:37):
got from
from Tesla in in the most recent episode
that I did about Tesla,
that I grabbed off of their website. Yeah.
You you've been you've been left off of
their
off of their press page. And maybe they're
not enforcing it. But, you know, I've seen
some of the That's the key
key thing. It depends on what it is,

(15:58):
how long you play it Yeah. To some
degree.
But I do think that
the somewhat the rules have changed. Well, there's
I've gotten strikes,
even putting website images up before.
So when you say website images Just bringing
a website up, bringing a new site up,
bringing up, you know,

(16:19):
PC World or
whatever. I've got this. Or a screenshot? Is
it Yeah.
Or a browser.
Browser of a of a of a website.
I've gotten a copyright strike on those before.
And again, it it it's it doesn't happen
all the time.
But, you know, it all depends on if
there's enforcement going on by those groups.

(16:43):
Yeah. I would imagine that's probably true. Right?
Yeah. And I have I've had bigger issues
with YouTube content, replaying someone else's YouTube content.
Yeah. That's even more challenging.
If I'm getting something off a news site,
less impact. But if I'm playing someone else's
YouTube video,

(17:03):
bam. Copyright strike.
Yeah. I'll play like,
I I do this in a recent other
video that I did. I played like,
maybe
a a minute from my a TEDx
talk.
And, I'm I'm surprised you haven't the video.
Yeah. I'm
I'm just surprised you haven't gotten copyright strikes

(17:25):
on those.
Mm-mm. Nope.
So
not,
yeah, I've been doing it off and on
for for months, and I go through all
of the the checks, the copyright checks, the
all that stuff. It it it comes up
saying found no problems. So
so, yeah, I think it's kind of a
hit and miss thing, Todd. I'm not sure

(17:46):
it's,
it's an always
thing,
right, that happens. I think it depends on
where it came from and who it is.
Yeah. That's probably
probably the issue.
Yeah. And one thing's for sure is you
don't want to show any Getty images in
your videos at all.
If there's an image
on a website that has a Getty image

(18:08):
on it,
that's
You're talking about superimposed
kind of
No. Just if you have let's say you
have
a noose
website opened up and they've got a Getty
image in there and you show that within
your content,
bam.
That's that's almost an instant one.

(18:29):
So when you say show a Getty image
Okay. So if I was bringing know it's
a Getty image. Because it's they have a
it says Getty. It says the credit is
Getty or AP or whoever
in the
image.
Getty is hardcore on if you haven't licensed
that
image, you can't use it in your content.

(18:51):
But that's more news type of stuff that
I do and I have type of So
if I ever see on a web page
that they have a Getty image, the credit
is the Getty image,
I I don't load that page
because it it almost immediately
within twenty four hours, there's a copyright strike
that you used
the imagery that you weren't licensed for and

(19:14):
and When was the last time that you
got a copyright strike?
I don't well, again, I avoid it because
I
don't want copyright strikes.
Yeah. So so if things have changed, you
probably won't sell it. Use a Getty image
though. And if you put a Getty image
up in your YouTube video, go ahead try
it.
You know? I you know?

(19:36):
Hey. Good luck.
Well, Todd, if you haven't tried it in
a long time It's not necessarily a long
time. Things have changed. I don't think so.
You know? Okay.
You know, when when Geddy comes and sends
me a,
an email wants $800
for an image in an image and the
image within the image was a Getty image,

(19:59):
they're still being very aggressive.
Has that happened to you? Yeah. Absolutely. I've
had to write a check-in the past.
Oh, you have? Yeah.
You know, got an image off
a quote unquote
place where there was licensed it had a
licensed image to use
and what it was was there was an

(20:21):
image within the image and it was tiny.
It was in a,
it was in
a in a frame.
Basically, it was a picture of a room
and in a frame was an image. The
image in the frame was a Getty image
And I end up having to write a
check over that.
So when was that? Couple years ago. Remember?
Oh, it was years ago. No. I said

(20:42):
a couple of years ago. Oh, couple years
ago. Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're really tight
on Geekton Central on what images we use
to ensure that we're
and again, that was on the website.
Not necessarily on YouTube. So I just
I I avoid getting like Oh, so also
that copyright strike was based on the website.

(21:04):
Well, the demand for money was because of
the website, not because of YouTube. But I've
gotten YouTube strikes because of imagery
in in the YouTube video.
Mhmm. It'd be interesting
to find out
exactly what's going on with that. And I
I have this perception that there's not a

(21:25):
huge amount of transparency
at YouTube about what they're doing with that.
And I'm gonna just Google this. Can I
use a Getty
image
in a YouTube
video
that is on a website

(21:48):
being displayed?
It doesn't even need to be on a
website. Right? It can just be pulled up
as a background image. No. It says no.
Generally, you cannot use a Getty images in
YouTube video on a website being displayed without
permission.
So, yeah, they are
and even there's Quora,

(22:11):
and even Getty has yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, you wanna use Getty
Images, you gotta have the Getty Images. You
gotta have license.
Yeah. I don't
I don't think I've ever used the Getty
Image. Well, you won't know. Again if you're
showing a website and they have a image
in there.
That is That's right. I don't show websites
like you do. So I don't show

(22:32):
like news articles on a website. Yep. Right.
I don't do a news news show.
So how do you get around the music
then that's in, like, the Tesla videos and
stuff?
The ones that I've used don't have music
in them. Okay.
Plus I'm doing
kind of the voice over

(22:53):
over the top of the videos while they're
playing.
So some of that is, you know, again,
fair use is funny.
And,
I'm just so leery of it, you know,
once you've had to write a couple of
checks.
Oh, yeah. I can totally understand that. That
makes sense. Right. Yeah.
But I do think it's a moving landscape,

(23:13):
and I
and I don't
I don't bring up browser based experiences on
my videos.
Here lately, I haven't been doing that much
of that. I kinda create my own image
Oh, yeah. And then I superimpose it. I've
gotten more strikes
on my own content that's mine that
are mistaken for somebody else's.

(23:34):
I probably had to deal with
maybe a hundred of those.
Everyone and it's usually old content on YouTube.
So what would that be? They just flag
it and say, hey. At three minutes and
forty two seconds to four ten,
you're using and I go into it and
it's no it's me talking and it's just
the algorithm made a mistake.

(23:55):
So I can test it and
and,
it's cleared.
So there's, you know, it's always been a
mistake
that,
you know, you you rack up too many
that are true ones, you you can you
can lose your channel, which is the advantage
of podcasting. You don't you, you know, you're

(24:17):
not gonna lose your channel.
Although although you know That's true. Spotify is
being, you know, pretty heavy handed still.
Yeah. It's mainly on music.
It's church it's,
church anybody
that's doing a church podcast, they're just getting
hammered.
A church podcast? Lately, that's been the latest.

(24:39):
Yeah. Because there's been hymnal music or something
like that's being sung or something and Oh,
it's still music. Yeah. It's music.
Yeah. Okay.
Now for those of you doing church podcast,
don't don't put any music in the
in the in the content.
Interesting.
Yeah. I suppose that that could be the

(24:59):
case.
But if it's like
a it's interesting if it's the
group of just people, you know, church singing
or something. Oh. That's That's still still copyright
hit. You know, there's there's stuff that's very
very very very old
that is not but that's not what's being
sung in churches these days, you know.

(25:21):
A lot of the stuff that's being sung
in churches is modern day church music
that is copyright and licensed.
So okay.
Yeah. So you know and
so that's what we've been seeing. A matter
of fact, we've actually had some outreach by
podcasters said, Hey how come
how come they have this episode missing? I
said, well, we forwarded you your,

(25:42):
you know, your DMCA takedown,
you know, your copyright strike that you can
appeal now but
we've seen no appeals having been overturned.
Are you seeing any takedowns like that coming
out of Apple?
No. Never.
That's interesting why

(26:02):
Apple would be tolerant of it, but
Spotify is not.
Well, they don't they've been very clear. They
don't want music
in
spoken word content.
But Apple doesn't care.
Apple doesn't care. Well,
I don't get them. I've I don't think

(26:24):
I've ever gotten a DMCA.
And maybe Apple sends it directly to the
podcaster.
You know, I would assume that's if there
was an issue.
And, maybe Ted can weigh in if he's
listening.
Again,
maybe they go direct because they have a
direct relationship with the

(26:46):
with the, with the podcasters. So
Yeah. Right. Yeah. That makes sense.
So to kind of back up about the
social media connection, I think in a lot
of ways it
the more I think about it, the more
I I do think it makes sense because
there there's elements that have come into play
here as social media has gotten bigger and

(27:06):
more popular that just those pathways can be,
great ways for people to share, you know.
Oh, yeah. So it's just an augment of,
the the that word-of-mouth.
People have gotten smarter. They're doing shorts. They're
doing clips. They're doing audio segments. They're Yeah.
That's all on social media. And we're having,
you know, our we see the usage of

(27:28):
our AI tool creating audio clips and video
clips. It's
it's huge.
Yeah. And with
the YouTube adding the
the podcast playlist thing that that puts it
right into that
perceived to be
social media
of of YouTube. Yeah.
But does

(27:49):
with Spotify be considered to be a social
media platform?
Again, I guess if you're gonna call YouTube
a social media platform, then
Spotify is as well. You know,
again if there's anybody that's discovering stuff via
those platforms then you know,
is that really social or is that just

(28:09):
an algorithm thing?
I don't care where they can't find the
content. That's why I've always said I don't
care where you watch or
listen, long as you do. And if you're
discovering us on YouTube, great.
You know? And if you're not, then, you
know
Yeah. I think this opens up

(28:29):
another layer of question is
if you look at what YouTube's doing is
that they're very focused on the episode level,
right?
In
presenting
to their users,
just individual episodes. Right? It's
this whole concept of subscribing
and following a series and stuff like that.

(28:51):
Sure. It's built into the platform, but it's
not the primary
ideation around the algorithm.
The algorithm is really
focused on
each individual video has to be a standalone
experience. But but if I'm subscribed,
it Yeah. Well They show me the last
signal. They have well, knowing my subscription list,

(29:11):
I have the last 20
shows that I have watched and those are
at the top because they don't offer you
know, this is the thing it's so bad
about YouTube
is if you subscribe to a lot of
channels,
you know, it's
it's not by recent
except for those top 20.
You have to go a b c d

(29:33):
e f g e f you know, you
well, actually, they're not even alphabetical. You just
have to find them in the list.
It's ridiculous. They make it so hard.
Yeah. And I keep hearing more and more
from the the YouTube experts out there that
that whole subscribe function doesn't really
play into the algorithm that much anymore. They've

(29:53):
they've kind of de emphasized it. I very
rarely watch stuff that I'm not subscribed to.
Well,
they would rather surface content to you that
they know that you are more likely to
watch. Well, they they they suck then because
it like I say, I go into these
rabbit holes and they just serve me up
more shit of the same if I watch

(30:15):
one thing that's out of my list.
So for me, it it hasn't been a
good experience on them surfacing new content.
TikTok, on the other hand, is a completely
different animal.
I mean, they're catering to what's
what's best for YouTube. And what's best for
YouTube is to surface
videos that they know are catching fire. Right?

(30:38):
That are
that are Most stuff I see has got
a hundred views, 200 views. There's nothing I
see that has tens and thousands and millions
of views. They don't surface
any I don't get that surface to me
that is high viewing content. Yeah. I do
all the time. Then you must not be
subscribed to very much stuff.
I'm

(30:58):
not sure.
I mean, it's not a top priority for
for me to subscribe to things because I
increasingly know it's not that important.
So I mean, I I mean, I think
a lot of the the big kind of
YouTube influencers are out there, and they're
talking about how

(31:20):
how,
you know, it's all about the thumbnails, all
about the the title. It's all about, you
know, hooking people at the beginning of the
content, holding on to their viewership.
Yeah. And that's what the algorithm is really
playing into now. Unto three. And the whole
factor of
being a being a subscriber
to a series

(31:40):
is
a it's a signal to the algorithm, but
it's increasingly
becoming less of a
a driver.
Because I think if I think the thinking
that they're they're in is that if an
individual video looks like it's gonna do well,
they will they will feature that to you
if you happen to be a subscriber to
it. But if it isn't doing,

(32:02):
really well, they're probably gonna feature something else
that is doing better. I'm subscribed to a
42
YouTube channels.
Yeah. I'm not,
I'm not sure on my end. Yeah. I'd
have to pop open a browser. And not
all of those I watch,
you know, but I'm subscribed. Yeah. I mean,
it would be

(32:23):
an interesting exercise for you just to kinda
look at that list and remember it and
just think about
how many shows on your wall actually came
out of that subscriber list. It's I only
spend time in the subscribe list. I don't
spend time in it.
Yeah. Oh,
okay. So you pop into the to the

(32:43):
subscribe list and then click on those to
go to the channels to watch that content.
Because every time I go to the homepage,
they just serve me a bunch of
bunch of crap.
Oh, okay. So you're you're using YouTube like
a podcast app.
So
but that's not what,

(33:03):
I'm not sure what I'm saying. When I
go to when I go to the homepage,
I don't get a good
experience. I've been on the home page before
and it like I said, just recently I
subscribed to that one channel
on you know, them
making these weird vehicles and then you know
I was getting served.
The end of that video showed me another
one of those. I'm like, no. I don't

(33:23):
wanna see that.
And I back out.
I don't let it autoplay. I stop it
before it starts.
If I if I don't physically say I
wanna watch this, I don't let them play.
So you watch a video and then you
pop out and go back to your subscription
host. Yeah.
Okay. That's
okay.

(33:44):
That explains to me what your experience is
and why it's different. Well, again, because I
have such a horrible experience when I'm on
the homepage
or whatever they call.
Well, it's probably pretty confused about what you
like. Good. Well, it shouldn't be. It knows
what I'm subscribed to.
I know. But but if that's not a
key signal for it anymore Oh, good. Then

(34:06):
you're
then then what you watch off of your
homepage is actually gonna drive the algorithm.
Yeah. I don't watch off them.
So Yeah. Well, that explains it then, Todd.
Well I was a little baffled by it,
but that
that would explain why you're having the experience
that you're having. Yeah. But it's on purpose
because why do I wanna watch stuff that

(34:27):
I am not interested in?
Why do I want serve something to me
that I haven't specifically sought out?
Yeah. But that's that's the role of the
algorithm is Well, that's great, but that's a
waste of my time.
Okay. Time is valuable.
I don't need to be served some

(34:48):
some content that I didn't seek.
Yeah. Okay.
Well, the algorithm
yeah. It's
it's this game of algorithms back and forth.
If people just sit there and let YouTube
serve them stuff, oh my god. Sorry for
you.

(35:08):
It's more of a lean back
experience.
Right? I mean, so you have the option
to just let it play the next video
or or you watch the video that you
want and then you scroll through your wall
to find something that's in looks interesting.
And that's a signal to the algorithm of
the types of things that you like to
watch. It will

(35:28):
deliver to you more of that. Yeah. I
I I seek specific content. I don't
Yeah. But just difference.
Well, and that's how that's how most podcast,
consumers consume podcasts in the podcast apps too.
It's very series driven. It's not
episode driven.
And I do wonder if that's what we're

(35:49):
gonna see
come to Spotify and come to Apple at
some point is
is more of a drive towards episode level,
not series level. You're gonna you're gonna laugh.
Hasa Films said, in chat, nearly 8,000 subscriptions
for me.
He said, and nearly
the bell, for many of them that you
you must be getting ding ding ding ding

(36:10):
ding ding ding all day.
Wow. 8,000.
That's that's an impressive number. That's
a lot. I can't even imagine.
Yeah. How do you how you
know? I'm trying to delete stuff all the
time.
Yeah. I thought that I've I I was
like this unusual character that had I think
at one point, I had, like, a 28

(36:33):
podcast subscriptions in my Apple podcast app. No.
My Apple podcast app is Crazy. My Apple
podcast app is pretty insane,
you know. Is it? Yeah. It's pretty insane.
How many
how many subscriptions
do you have or follows now, I guess,
in the Apple Podcast? I probably have a
hundred.

(36:53):
Yeah. Yeah. I've had that for But I've
also got 10 that are on another app.
I do my reviews
via another app so I can remove them
and add them real easy. So the 10
I add and subtract all the time are
on a separate app. So I use that
app specifically for I scratch myself in the
forehead. I'm looking red. I look like I

(37:13):
got punched in the face.
Yeah. So but anyway, yeah, you know.
Yeah. I think it's an interesting conversation. Here's
the thing though, Rob. You are so you
are so in you're so ingrained in what's
going in YouTube. You're losing
you're losing touch on what's going on in
the rest of the podcast space.
Well, fill me in, Todd, if I'm so

(37:34):
out of touch.
Have you listened to
the podcasting two point o show or any
of that stuff recently?
Not not here in the last week. Oh,
okay.
I'm just, yeah, I'm just wondering if you're,
you know, doing anything outside of YouTube.
Yeah. Well, I've got I've got,

(37:56):
I've got
three podcasts. Yeah. But but they're all primarily
your primary focus is on YouTube. Are you
pushing Apple podcast
or any other subscription
method?
I don't I don't really push that hard
on on
on social media for
for all that stuff, actually. I mean,

(38:17):
for me, creating content right right now is
not a really
big big area from the standpoint of trying
to grow a huge show. I think
my approach to it right now is probably
not the best approach.
So you're doing you're you're chasing the logarithm.
You're trying to get a you're trying to
get a hit. No. I'm just trying to
try all all sorts of different formats.

(38:38):
Try all sorts of different,
ways of doing
doing this stuff.
If it's
like on, like on YouTube, I I'm currently
doing probably six different shows
that have different formats,
and different ways of
presenting comment or content. And,
and then some of those shows are taken

(38:59):
out as audio
podcasts and some of them are taken out
as audio and video podcasts. So
just playing around, but I think I'm gonna
be changing that. I think I'm gonna be
kinda cutting back and maybe
trying to launch maybe a new show,
that's that's maybe and only have one show
or two, you know, like

(39:20):
this one and maybe one more. Yeah.
And that's it because, you know, I think
I've
I've tested the limits on on lots of
different formats and trying to
learn, you know, learn YouTube,
but yet, you know, I kinda feel like
I understand podcasting. I'm not like a like
a low died on podcasting all of a

(39:40):
sudden.
So so I've only been doing it for
twenty years. So and
so
what what I did want to learn was
what was happening on the social media side
of content. So that's also where I've been
really focused on is
doing more with shorts and doing more with
different,
different types of content. So not just doing

(40:01):
the same thing.
Yeah. You you've got the luxury of having
time
to be able to do all this.
I don't know if time is time. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
We all have the same amount of time.
Yeah. So Well, some of us have more
time than others.
Well, it's just
where you're spending your time Yeah. Is what

(40:22):
it comes down to. Right?
So So, by the way, if anyone
is in need of a little extra bandwidth,
I we overestimate how much bandwidth we needed.
And,
so I've got a few petabytes I'd like
to sell between now and July.
So So how would you do such a

(40:42):
thing, Todd? Sell petabytes? I'm not quite sure
how that works.
It's easy. Yeah. You you know, you wanna
you want a great deal on some bandwidth.
I'll I'll I'll send you some bandwidth at,
below retail.
So are you like Below wholesale? Is that
what you are? No. It's just what we
did is, you know, our

(41:03):
one of the team members is no longer
with us saying, you know, we had a
three year contract with the CDN
and,
you know, based on x amount of projected
growth
and
overdid it a little bit.
So I I basically have more bandwidth. You
still pay for it. You know, no matter

(41:23):
what. It's, you know, we had it was
in the budget to to
to pay for it, but I've got use
it or lose it.
So how would you sell it?
Basically, when it comes to me and says,
hey. And we'd we'd make you
a bucket. You drop stuff in
and connect it to,
you know, map
a subdomain and

(41:44):
serve media
from it. And and then we It's still
it's still coming off of your infrastructure then.
Yeah. It's coming off of CloudFront.
Right. Yeah. So but, basically, you can you
know, we'll make it easy for you.
And I and I sell it by the
petabyte.
So I've got a few petabytes to sell.

(42:08):
So wouldn't that be kind of a temporary
deal? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would be. But
I'm gonna give someone if someone is paying
a, you
you know, let's you know, I'm not gonna
announce the price on this on the on
this live stream, but I'm gonna give you
a price that
you're not gonna get anywhere else. You save
some money.
You know? So what would a

(42:30):
a a potential candidate for that
A big show or a network,
you know, any another podcasting host.
It it really runs the
so it's yeah. It runs the other way
too if you're if you're
over committed,
depends on your contract.
So

(42:50):
it's a short term issue and it's and
basic what it is is that the you
get billed every month for what you use
and then at the end of your contract
year, whatever you didn't use, you have a
lump sum payment
that you have to make. We would have
paid for that if we'd been using all
the bandwidth month to month, except that bill
is going to come due on July 31.
Yeah. So,

(43:11):
yeah. So would they,
let's say a network came to you and
the network was working with, you know,
they can use it whatever. Router
or something. However they want
to use it. Yep. But you just have
to use
that media URL
and we'll leave it up. It's not it's

(43:32):
it's
but, you know, you just use a new
media URL for your for your delivery.
Oh,
yeah. Yeah. For that For a lot of
ways, it's like like
still
hosting your media on your platform.
Yeah. It's a well, it's not on our
platform. It's on CloudFront.
Oh.
Yeah. So they would

(43:54):
Okay. Yeah.
And we use CloudFront for all of our
content.
Yeah. Right. Right. And we're like 90% of
the rest of the folks are using are
you or 80% are on CloudFront.
Got it. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. And I'm in, you know, contract
renegotiation
at this moment too. So, of course, now
I'm gonna have a lower commit for the,

(44:17):
you know, for the coming year
so that, I don't overspend.
You know? So it's
or over you know, over commit.
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard
to it's hard to always know precisely what
you're what you're Well, you know, you you
Usage is gonna be. You kinda do a
thumb in the you know, you do do
a little bit of a a little bit
of this, you know.

(44:38):
And,
you know, you try to make sure you
get the best because you're trying to get
the lowest rate,
the lowest rate you possibly can get
and,
you know, so you'd go with the biggest
number you think you're gonna move
and whatever growth that includes.
And something you know, this is the first
time we've ever overshot. So, you know,

(45:00):
not gonna complain too much.
But, yeah, if someone wants some bandwidth, they
got to got a deal for them.
Sub sub penny or gig. Yeah.
Yeah. Todd, I saw this, chart. It's in
the outline
that I share with you. It's basically
if you scroll down the page a little

(45:20):
little bit, it's after the
Oh, talk about this pods thing?
No. No.
The one above it, the chart above it
Yeah. It says when listening to a new
show, how long do you,
how long do you give it to hook
you in before you give up on it?

(45:42):
And,
and it's an interesting,
you know, it's like, so let's say you're
listening to a new episode.
How long do you listen to that new
episode
before
you
bail?
Right?
So what's
the percentage of the audience? Yeah. That's pretty
big percentage that people give you at 40%

(46:03):
for up to 15. 24
versus
in 2020,
it was 29%.
Yeah. So people are a little more patient
here.
So in 2024,
'40 percent of people give you up to
fifteen minutes to make an impression.
Right. One full episode is 29%.

(46:25):
That's that's pretty good. That's pretty good percentages.
Yeah.
But but the one below it is five
minutes or less.
Twenty seven percent in 2020,
'17 percent.
That's interesting. It's hard to kind of pull

(46:46):
out of this what what this means to
some degree.
Yeah. So fewer people
are judging a podcast
Yeah. Based on five minutes or less. Is
that what that means from 2020?
Yeah. It means it means that in 2020,
you you didn't get as people weren't patient

(47:07):
as patient.
So people are more patient now.
So these are good numbers. That's that's actually
encouraging.
Yeah.
And then 11%,
two full episodes.
That's incredible. That's actually

(47:28):
higher than I would have ever thought.
I give shows about ten minutes.
That's really kind of my rule of thumb
is because I'm listening to still listening to
a lot of new shows. Ten minutes is
the, you know, is my is my make
or break point.

(47:48):
That's why Remember I'm
oh, go go ahead. That's one of the
reasons why I changed up the format of
my tech show that I do my
opening
lead article immediately
and spend two or three minutes on that
and then jump into the intro and then
get back to the content.

(48:09):
So, you know, first two or three minutes
is actually the the lead article for the
for the show. So I'm into the lead
article within forty seconds of starting the podcast.
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting
too from the standpoint of,
in the earlier years

(48:30):
of podcasting and even YouTube, I kept hearing
that, you know, you weren't going to get
anybody to watch your,
your video if it was longer than five
minutes. Right. I'm sure you remember that. Yeah.
I mean,
that was the, the big talk about
online videos that you can't do anything longer
than five minutes because nobody's gonna pay attention

(48:52):
to it. Right?
So but you contrast
this with with I'm sure
is only audio and it's
the patience is
definitely
significantly
higher. And it's also, you know, if you
look at
the the video watching
patterns,
you know, what's the drop off of

(49:12):
people that start a video and how long
do they typically
continue watching? They think you're successful if you
keep people for sixty seconds.
I think it's insane. Yeah. I mean, it
is I mean, I see it in my
own videos. It's
it's almost I mean, there's a lot of
videos that kind of fall off an audience
like, like falling off a cliff.

(49:33):
It shows you how tracks on that timeline.
It shows you how people on YouTube are
less patient. I'm the same way
on YouTube if they're if the pace is
not quick enough, if the if the person
is talking slower.
Yeah. Or and not they haven't talked to
you at the beginning of it. Well, they're
not getting to the point.
Right.
You know, some of these folks, it's just

(49:54):
like, come on.
You know, this doesn't take fifteen minutes. This
should take ten minutes.
And whatever reason, they're trying to keep you
longer.
Or yeah. Oh, you mean the total content
or just the tease part at the beginning?
Everything.
You know, it's just like, come on. Let's
get let's get going here.

(50:15):
And it's these AI ones are horrible. You
know, they're dragging you on and repeating
and Oh. So, you know, we've made it
trying to make a goal of our
of most of our YouTube stuff to be
like five minutes.
Yeah. I'm seeing so much AI.
It's horrible. It now. It's really bad. Well,

(50:35):
Todd, I think it depends on how you
look at it. I mean, I think that
there's a lot of people watching it. Well,
then did you know, it
oh, it's but it's it's amazing that they
are watching it then because I think it's
just horrible.
What about it's horrible?
Just curious. Static image and someone talking. Oh,
no. No. No. No. A I'm talking about

(50:57):
videos.
AI videos is one. Oh, I'm not I'm
not seeing any AI videos. I don't think
I've ever seen an AI video.
Yeah. I've seen them on shorts.
Maybe shorts. But
No. That's what yeah. But that's what I'm
talking about. Oh, I don't watch shorts on
YouTube.
Well, I think they're they're coming everywhere now.

(51:18):
It's these kind of graphic.
And it says Not graphic from a content
perspective, but just kinda get, like,
cartoonish type
type of videos. Oh, yeah. Silly. Right? I
don't have time for that BS.
No. But I'm
yeah. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking
about Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seeing out there on

(51:39):
these platforms is that it's being
I
think there's a huge
movement on content creators right now moving into
AI created content.
And I did hear that there was a
new podcast.
I think it was talked about in pod
news today
that I think it was done. I can't

(52:00):
remember the,
what company it was,
but it was a large,
larger media company that was doing,
doing all of,
doing a podcast that has an AI
Co host.
Co host and a
a real person
host.

(52:23):
So
and this is this kind of stuff is
becoming
more common.
It's I think it's a cute
trick.
But
Yeah. I mean, I think
I think the younger generation
enjoys it more than the older generation.

(52:45):
I I just I just get I hear
that monotone.
And it's just I'm not talking about audio.
I'm talking about videos. I'm talking about videos
too on YouTube. Oh, you are. But it's
just an image. They show an image of
something and then the person's talking and it's
got that
same yeah. It just to me it turns

(53:06):
my stomach. No. It's full it's full motion
movie like videos is what I'm talking about.
Yeah. I haven't seen anything that is more
than a minute long that uses full motion
video for AI.
Everything else is I'm not saying it's longer
than a minute. I'm just saying it's just
it's just full motion video. Again, I'm not
watching shorts on YouTube either. So I'm used
when I refer to shorts, that's like three

(53:27):
minutes.
Three or four minutes.
Well, it's up to three minutes. So it
can be any length that you want up
to three minutes. Yeah. But if I see
usually I see stuff like that. I'm I'm
out.
Yeah.
As you hear in the news that Podex,
the company out of Europe or,

(53:49):
the Swedish company acquired
Lemonade Media.
Yeah.
That was Isn't that like their activity.
Their second sale in recent months or when
weren't they bought last year or something? Isn't
this
Oh, you're talking about lemonade? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
They've have they changed hands a couple of
times? I I can't remember.

(54:09):
What?
I can't remember either. Yeah.
But I know that PUDX
group has been
on a buying spree in Europe for, like,
the last
three years or four years.
So they're going around buying up,
production studios. Yeah.

(54:29):
So
that's gonna wind up being a big, a
big content company someday.
Well, it sounds like they already are. They're
buying up a bunch of stuff. Right. I
mean, I think they paid at least the
the rumor is
that they paid $3,030,000,000
for lemonade. How many shows did they have?
In house shows.

(54:51):
Don't have that, but I know that they
have some shows. That's a big number.
Like like, I think,
Julia Dreyfus,
I think, does her show on their platform
on on their network.
How many
shows
does Lemonade

(55:14):
media right
So PodX merged its three UK companies
together. I guess they brought them
under the umbrella. So they're basically
doing a roll up
of
of content creation.
Let's see here. Companies.
Dylan Mulvaney is on there.

(55:37):
When it clicked,
can't suit politics.
Oh, yeah. Let me look at
the one, two, three, four, five.
A lot of LGBT,
it looks like on their network ten, fifteen,
20, 20 five, 30, 30 five,
40, 40, 50, 50 five, 60. Oh, quite
a few. Like 70 shows or more.

(56:01):
Yeah.
So
it looks like
a pretty good diversity of shows.
Yeah. Mostly, I'm not familiar with.
Add to cart after 1954,
as me with Sinead,

(56:23):
ask Eliza anything,
attitude being golden, being trans, believe her,
blind pea, boneheads,
burnout, call decline, choice words,
confessions of a female founder, discarded, everything happens,
Fail better.
And mostly shows I'm never heard of before.

(56:45):
They must be doing well.
Yeah.
Yeah. I tried to get,
the CEO
of
Lemonade Media on the new media show on
on stage,
once and
and she was traveling that day. So The
only show that I know here is Side
Hustle School.

(57:05):
I know that one.
Mhmm. Yeah. The
the company I was talking about that had
the AI,
kind of cohost Yeah. And
and
a a real person as the other cohost,
was a podcast being done by Hacker News,

(57:27):
I guess.
It was on Pod News.
Well, there's been a number of
shows that have been that are being AI
produced that I'm aware of. They're completely automated.
Yeah.
So Hacker News has one that has a
cohost says, you know, I had played with

(57:47):
it. Tried to get
it was early.
Trying to get chat GP to respond to
something when I was,
recording a podcast but I just didn't have
everything wired up right and it was just
taking too long.
Of course, you can't do anything like that
live because you have to wait for the
response.
So it's I'm sure it's spliced together.

(58:12):
I'm sure you could do it live.
I could do a live chat with chat
GPT on my show. You think that you
think the timing would be fast enough?
Yeah. I think it would be. Yeah.
I should try it. I should try it
sometime.
Yeah. You You can make pod news if
you do that.

(58:34):
Yeah.
Oh, I think you probably have to be
careful what questions you, you prompt it with
because it could, especially if you're alive.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. You have to be careful probably.
Yeah. So it doesn't disclose
anything from its memory about, you know,
its cohost.

(58:55):
Yeah. So Well, I'm gonna tell you. I'm
pretty impressed with Sora.
Sora is,
Sora is knocking out of the ballpark and
creating,
static images. That's all I'm really using it
for.
It's Oh, you are? Oh, okay.
So is Sora built into

(59:15):
the four point o?
I
here's the deal. I'm still paying for the
$200 version of chat g Oh, you are?
Oh, you are? Yeah.
So I think that gives me access to
Sora.
So
they got this new thing called operator too.
I don't even know what that is. I

(59:36):
haven't played with that. But,
Well,
Todd. What were you gonna say?
I found
something in pod news that I think is
a little bit it's a little bit amusing.
Oh.
Do you know Eric,
Newsom? Yeah. I know Eric. He used to

(59:56):
work for,
Audible and Yep. And has been
in podcasting for for a long time. I
guess he published
something in his latest newsletter and it suggested
that podcasting has fundamentally changed in the last
several years. Oh, yeah. I think I saw
this.
And and his
contention was is that it's

(01:00:18):
it's
kind of splitting between
chat casts and story cast, Todd.
It's a new phenomenon.
It kind of makes me laugh.
Yeah. Because because isn't that what podcasting has
been,

(01:00:40):
if you go back even to the early
years?
Well, isn't it isn't more podcast and story
cast. Isn't more that way. Story cast are
pretty that's pretty broad.
Yeah.
Well,
I mean, he's he's coming from a background
with Audible. Right? Yeah. So this whole kind

(01:01:00):
of
telling a linear story or, you know, like
serial Right. Right. Right. He's coming out of
that public radio background and all that kind
of stuff like that. So
I think
I think he just,
has a little bit of rose colored glasses
on to what the medium has been about.
I think podcast medium has always really primarily

(01:01:22):
been about chat cast. Yeah. Well, so, you
know, Geek and Essential is a chat cast.
Right. It's only been more recently.
But I call it a news show, not
a chat cast.
Right. Right. Then so you could say it's
a story down. And this is definitely a
chat cast.
Although we tell stories.

(01:01:44):
Yeah. But I just this concept of story
cast as being something that's,
It's new. That's new. I I have a
hard time I just but I don't like
those.
I those two specific titles are just,
it's almost like Leo LaPorte going back to
the old days where Oh, to Netcast? Yeah.
Netcast, you know. Come yeah. Come on. Let's

(01:02:08):
Yeah.
So Yeah. It seems like it's
a this it's basically a distinction that really
isn't very important to highlight.
Yeah. Because
well, you know, if you think about
true crime, those are definitely stories.
Yeah.

(01:02:28):
Entertainment shows are probably chat.
And, again,
it's,
you know, how do you been around. I
mean Yeah. I mean,
I featured on the Zoom platform the
the We're
Alive, audio drama series Yeah. Podcast back in
02/2009.
And
and there were shows that were being produced,

(01:02:51):
that were
stories. What was it? The Adventures
of,
oh my god. It was highly produced.
Well,
Dan Dan Carlin is another one, you know.
Yeah. That's a story cast
of sorts. But that's been around for Yeah.
Fifteen years. I mean I I mean, unless
he's thinking that somehow that the medium is

(01:03:14):
evenly split between chat casts and story cast,
which I don't think it is.
But
maybe it is. Is that what's fundamentally changed
is just the. No, I don't think things.
The story cast part.
It's defining it, but it's
we've been
this way since the beginning, I think.
Yeah, I think so, too.

(01:03:37):
Yeah.
Yeah. It's interesting
perspective on that.
And,
what do you think of these, these new
earbuds they're coming out?
Oh, the
the PodPods? Yeah.
Yeah. Do you wanna pull that up on
the screen? Yeah. I can. And to me,

(01:03:59):
it's like
a product that is really probably not needed.
Well, it's an interesting
device
because it it merges
the visual with the audio
in a yeah. I don't know if you
saw the capability of this thing, Todd. Yeah.
But again, I think color e ink screen

(01:04:22):
on the side of it.
So you can actually see the show notes.
You can see the cover art, all that
stuff. Yeah. It's not that much difference. It's
got Chinese on it. So it's definitely
being built by someone out of Yeah.
Taiwan or China. One of the two.
Well, the designer
is Japanese,

(01:04:42):
I guess. Oh. I don't know if
So yeah. So if it's it's kanji. I'm
looking at the Pinterest pictures. Make a fence
with that, Todd. No. I'm not. It's it's
it's like I said he would. Oh, if,
you know, again, it's
I didn't know. The Japanese and the Chinese
don't typically like each other that much, do
they? But it's an interesting device.

(01:05:07):
It's surprising it's coming out of the Japanese
market then.
Yeah. Well,
maybe it's not being made in
Well, it's
In Japan. But
who knows?
Who
knows?
It's it's interesting.
It comes with an accessory that has a
speaker too.
Yeah. And a

(01:05:28):
and an e ink color e ink screen.
Yeah. But you can, you know, you can
fast forward fifteen seconds. You can stop. You
can advance. You can
Yeah. Yeah.
And that takes me back to the early
days of my,
my web talk radio show that I did
because I featured the
the CEO of, E Ink

(01:05:51):
Tech back in,
I think it was, like, 2,000.
Yeah. How much is this gonna
cost?
Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, kind of
price.
Game changing technology to be able to to
show,
you know, electronic ink on, on paper.
Or she didn't he's not supporting chapters.

(01:06:13):
Yeah. What's the price on this? Yeah. It
doesn't say.
Yeah. It's not actually,
able to be purchased.
Oh, is this just a
CGI at this point?
No. It's just a it's a prototype.
Oh, yeah.
Development product.

(01:06:35):
Oddpods
is what it's called.
It's at,
yankodesign.com.
Yeah.
I'll put a link in the show notes.
Yeah. Interesting.
You know, it's,
but again if you've got earbuds in and

(01:06:56):
you know there's lots of functions you can
do with
earbuds as well
and playback
but this is definitely
audiobook or
podcast specific.
Mhmm. And seeing that Japan has not had
such a huge

(01:07:16):
podcast
surgeons like other places.
Yeah. It's curious this product is coming out
of Japan.
It is interesting.
And I guess
Google's notebook l m has rolled out,
I guess, over 50 languages
on their AI hosted podcasts. So

(01:07:38):
there you go, Todd.
So I'm not sure how that would work
if,
would you have to create a separate RSS
feed for each of the languages?
Yep.
But the challenge really there is
That's good for business though, Todd. They they
would they would not they would not,

(01:07:59):
I don't think you can supply the transcript
and it will I don't I haven't used
this in a while.
Can you create a transcript and have it
play it back? I thought it was all
about
giving a subject and it creates
content on its
own. Yeah. It probably creates the content on

(01:08:21):
it on its own in over 50 languages.
What would be interesting in that regard is
if you could take it and feed
it this show
with Todd Rob Todd Rob Todd Rob is
you know indicating the switch in speakers

(01:08:42):
and then let it create something in Spanish
or something from a transcript,
that that might be kind of,
but the problem is that the pacing won't
be
if they get it, so the pacing would
be good. It might be interesting.
I think the folks over at eleven Labs
are probably doing a better job in this

(01:09:04):
regard,
because you can
record your voice,
train it,
and then you can provide it
the transcript and you will get a,
an output in a different language.
Mhmm. So,
you know, I think eleven Labs is probably
more set

(01:09:25):
to do cool stuff like that.
Then you have to figure out how much
act how how good the accuracy is and
will it annoy those foreign listeners.
I think they'll put up with more if
you have a disclosure here. Hey. This has
been automatically generated and may get some some
translations wrong. We apologize in advance.

(01:09:48):
I think if you create something in Spanish
or French or whatever.
Mhmm. But you would definitely have to have
different feeds.
Well, James is yelling right now because he
says, yeah, I'll turn the closure. I'll turn
the closure. But again,
if you want it supported by

(01:10:09):
Apple and others, they won't they're not gonna
pick it up.
Though it isn't it technically possible to
dynamically
replace the audio
in an RSS feed to a localized version
through
dynamic ad insertion technologies? Oh, you could depending

(01:10:30):
on the IP origin point, sure. You could
serve a different version.
But if the people are expecting
terms imagine me being here
like I am right now and then requesting
to listen to my own show
and getting the Tagalog version of the show,
I would be pretty irritated.
I would, you know, I would be expecting

(01:10:52):
the English version and not the Tagalog version.
So I I think there's challenges there.
It probably needs to be controlled by your
preferences. Right?
So
I mean, in the player experience.
Yeah. Let me think about that. I
but, again,
there's a disconnect because

(01:11:13):
I control the media distribution
and the app controls the language preference. So,
again, unless it was
I think you still need,
you know, it it would be really cool
to do it all in one feed and
have the,
the, the app support it. But, again,
Apple and Spotify and others will not.

(01:11:35):
So it would be an overcast will not.
So, you know, how do you
I think you have to Why would they
not yeah. If it's done through the same
technology as
dynamic ad insertion. Well, it wouldn't be. It
had to be a setting and there's there
would still have to be a
a separate
feed in that language.

(01:11:58):
Yeah. Because it there's too many variables there.
I I can
add blueberry. I can
I could redirect the media, but
that's not what the listener maybe wants?
So another
so what's the cap on how many different
old alternative enclosures in order to have? There's

(01:12:19):
none.
Hey. You can do as many as you
want.
So that would be one way of solving
it. But the problem is is,
again, you'll be limited to podcasting two point
o apps that would be able to support
that. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, in
the short run. Right. And if you're gonna
go into this and do the expense of
having 11 Labs create four or five versions

(01:12:39):
of the show,
you're probably gonna want four or five different
listings in different languages so that you can
support the App Store in,
let's say, Mexico or wherever.
Well, or you can use
Google notebook l m. But I don't know.
We'd have to experiment with it and see
if it'll actually take a transcript

(01:13:01):
and create
this show in its entirety. I don't think
it will. I think it summarizes
this show. We give it a transcript. I
think you have to create a summary of
this show
in
English or whatever language you pick. I haven't
used I've only used it once. So I'd
have to go back and look and see

(01:13:21):
what it what it supports.
Yeah.
And then the
well, I also know that YouTube announced about
a year ago that they were gonna
dynamically change the audio and the video
to localize the language on on videos that

(01:13:41):
are on their platform all around the world.
Well, when they do that, that'll be impressive.
It's very expensive to do
that.
They've go I think he's I think they're
already doing it with the big shows.
So it's already starting to it's been rolling
out, I think, for a while now. As
a native English speaker does me no good
because I would not be able to go

(01:14:03):
sample it and see
if it was worthwhile
or how accurate it would be. I think
that's the advantage is if if you can
speak a couple of languages, which most people
outside The United States can. Yeah. Right.
Right. Do you
I think that'd be a good a good
test.

(01:14:23):
You know, listen to it listen to it
in the native language and see how good
it is.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a reasonable thought.
But I think that's coming. And I think
we're we're gonna see more of that. And
also means that all those shows that are
being done outside of The US and non
English language will be able to be,

(01:14:44):
translated into English. And be honest with you.
There's some Arabic shows that I've based on
my trip to Saudi, I would love to
listen to.
There's there's a number of them over there
that,
I I would really like to be able
to hear those stories.
So I think there's a there's a desire.
And if you think about leveling the playing

(01:15:06):
field, it seems like an eight and you
know, what do we do? What do we
do with podcasting? We made audio accessible
to,
for creators and listeners
that was not available
in any other place.
And if you
take this to the next step,
it just seems natural to me that we

(01:15:26):
would be able
to create a show in seven different languages.
I think that would be
you know, we've talked about it internally.
Just the cost. You know, what is the
cost to do that?
You know, because you've got seven media feeds.
You've got seven,
you know, versions of the show, which is

(01:15:48):
not a big deal.
It's just metadata.
And then that distribution, you know, where where
do you want that content listed so people
aren't confused
making sure it's getting in here. We do
have to really get some guidance from Apple
and others on
alright. I want this to show up in

(01:16:08):
the Portuguese market. How can I
have it only show up in
Brazil and, you know, the countries that speak
Portuguese? You know?
So how do we distribute that in specific
you know that version of the show
in those target countries
without also annoying the people that are English

(01:16:29):
speakers in Brazil that want to listen to
the English version. So you know, there's there's
a bunch of dynamics there for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. It's gonna get complicated, but I think
it's it's gonna be possible to be able
to do all that.
And it'll be probably
pretty soon it'll be fairly common. Yeah. But
it's still from an expense standpoint. I

(01:16:50):
I penciled it out. It's
not inexpensive,
especially if you have 11 Labs to
it. Yeah. Right. Because each content creator would
have to have an 11
unless they want to use someone else's voice,
have an 11
account train
and then do the API integration for the
show,
which is not hard.

(01:17:12):
Send the media over then pull it back
once the
translated versions are but
you're paying over there, you know, by the
minute for that.
Yeah.
I saw
another conversation that popped up that was intriguing
to me.

(01:17:33):
You know, it's always through this lens of,
you know,
what we've seen happen over the years. And
that's a big thing about this show is
that we can give that perspective because we've
lived it. Right? So
it's,
this concept
of consolidating
feeds.
I think you're,

(01:17:55):
you're once
one's initial reaction would be that it's like,
well, you know, let's just merge all of
our feeds together in the early years of
podcasting that was done to some degree. That
was kinda like a,
yeah, feed that had different shows in it
that would,
publish it different cadences,

(01:18:16):
but
but it would just be one RSS feed
that had multiple shows in it. Now this
conversation
that's happening now
is more to do with, let's say you
have on your network, let's say, you have
maybe five different shows.
So how how would you
even if
assuming that you can,

(01:18:37):
how you would merge those into one feed,
one RSS feed
that would have all the episodes from
a separate podcast feed all in one.
Right? So you have this technology now of
creating seasons. Right? Yeah. Or or or mini
series type of a season type of an

(01:18:58):
idea. Right? So you could conceivably in podcasters
have done this
where you create a one master RSS feed
and you just have
different topic shows in each of the seasons.
Right? And so what this person is asking,
and this is the interesting question for a
podcast host is how would you

(01:19:19):
merge, let's say four different RSS feeds
into one and basically take each of the
those
RSS feed content.
Right? And merge it into a season in
in another podcast feed.
Easy. Right? Our press does it today.
It does it? Okay. Yeah. Okay. See? Okay.

(01:19:41):
You just have to you have to use
channels
or category podcasting.
And then when you're publishing,
you you can really mix it up whatever
way you want.
So you could have a master feed that
is
let's call it Everything in it. Category everything.
Long as you select that category and have
that set up as a, you know, podcast

(01:20:03):
feed,
everything goes into that category
will show up and then you can have
the breakouts. You can have individual
feeds for each show or you set that
up and then you do seasons
with that specific feed. You really can mix
and match it almost any way you want.
Yeah.

(01:20:23):
Though I think in the in the early
years of podcasting, I think they called that
a network feed. I think it's Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Network feed. Official term for it. Yeah.
Now the new term that I'm hearing people
talk about is this concept of an umbrella
feed. Okay.
So it's kind of the same thing. It's
the same thing. Yeah. It's kind of splitting
hairs on that. But I can't do that

(01:20:44):
within
Blueberry
because we haven't enabled that
within the dashboard. Most podcast host probably can't
do this. No. But it's it's matter of
fact, it's been used
many networks have used
that function in PowerPress for many years.
Yeah. To create a, a network feed. Yeah.

(01:21:05):
Right?
And we even have a system in Blueberry
called MyCast where you can pick
the shows that you want to be in
a
a custom built RSS feed that you can
subscribe to that has 20 shows and you
get
a river of Just those shows. Just those
shows.
And they show up, you know, newest episode

(01:21:27):
first in the feed and we've had that
for many, many years.
And matter of fact, it's trademarked. We trademark
my cast.
So it's a feature within
the the platform.
So Yeah. So, yeah, so people are starting
to think about these things and they're
it's an extension
of what RSS is capable of doing. Well,

(01:21:49):
yeah. It's not easy. It's
it's not well known Yeah.
That it's capable of doing You'll have to
send me the link to that. I'll respond
to that.
Well, that was
Yeah. It was an article that was posted
in a newsletter called,
Pod the North.

(01:22:11):
Oh. I'm not sure who the Yeah. I
don't know either. But, you know, it's and
I don't know what their response was and
who can do that and who couldn't. But
and it's actually
and it's actually pretty
it's even today is pretty common.

(01:22:31):
So
Oh, it is? Yeah.
Yeah.
I think most of the times, they don't
publish those to Apple Podcasts. They make the
feed available to be manually subscribed to.
Oh, it's probably more of a,
a premium podcast? No. Let's say well, it
could be, but it's also just the the

(01:22:52):
network doing what they do.
Okay.
Yeah. Todd, I'll send you a link to
this Yeah. This this newsletter.
It doesn't look like it has
a a place to comment though,
but I guess Well, maybe It's off a
substack. It's off a substack.

(01:23:14):
So Maybe they'll listen to the show.
That would be interesting,
Yeah.
Yeah. Because I I mean, there's a long
history of this. And and as things happen
like this, people talk as though it's a
new idea. Yeah.
It's it's new if you've never heard of

(01:23:35):
it before. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
So
so that's,
And I think this is part of some
of the stuff that,
podcasting two point o is looking at is
and you know, some discussions that have happened
is is it you know, I think there's
super value in building

(01:23:55):
niche
communities
and niche networks.
You know, I remember back when we built
tech podcast
and there was so much value that people
got from being part of the network and
working together.
And
I think most

(01:24:15):
and again without a
financial commitment
or a, you know, it's basically it was
it was purely for
for promotion,
you know, and working together. And there was
no
you know, most networks now are all tied
to, oh, how much money you're gonna pay
me to be part of your network? And
I think I think there's super value

(01:24:37):
in,
shows aggregating up content and helping each other
even if there's no financial
incentive or financial
agreement.
Just the ability to promote
each other
and and rise together, I think is
super valuable. And I think in today's age

(01:24:58):
is probably
becoming more valuable than other. There's I've got
some internal pet projects I'm working on,
and we're improving our our we have what's
called a a network feature for
for PowerPress and I've add
asked the dev team to add about eight
new features to it. So they basically can,

(01:25:18):
you know, have a little mini network website
with all these cool functions, all these interactive
functions
that podcasting two point o supports.
So instead of just having a page where
it shows the show name and the the,
you know, description and link to the show
and the episodes, we can have it more
interactive.
And,

(01:25:40):
and then this is, you know, be web
based for sure.
But,
you know, there's lots of cool things that
can be done right now.
And I think podcasters have to be starting
to be thinking about being more creative
with all the noise that's out there.
I do think that we're in a a

(01:26:01):
time of,
the growth and proliferation of podcast networks.
I'm seeing it in my own experience that
it's just a lot more interest in that.
And I think it's it really is grounded
in this idea of,
of support.

(01:26:22):
If a network can provide value and support
to a creator, then,
as a replacement for having to build their
own team
per se.
Because I think a lot of creators now
feel like they've got to hire, you know,
people to help them do everything that needs
to be done because the medium is so

(01:26:42):
complex
now, especially if you're making money from it.
If you wanna build a business
or with a podcast, it takes a lot
of work. I'm not sure that one one
person can really do everything.
You know what I mean? I think it's
getting easier.
You know, there's a lot of stuff. It
I mean, AI is helping, but in some
ways, AI is

(01:27:04):
a a time suck too. Oh, sure. Everything's
a time suck.
Yeah.
But the key is is the time suck
getting smaller?
That's the goal.
Yeah. Is it getting smaller? Is it getting
as it gets smaller, is are you able
to maintain the same level of quality? Yeah.
So

(01:27:25):
and what does it take to be successful
as a podcaster now? And well, what is
the definition of success?
Well, it's I think it it depends on
everybody. Right? Yeah. It depends on the goal.
It depends on what everybody wants it. And
most of the times, it's well, I would
say at least 50% of the times, it's
not money.

(01:27:46):
So that's the other thing that, you know,
everyone wrapped around that.
If 50% of podcast, they have different goals,
building their business, getting their message out.
Yeah. But that that is to some degree
grounded in money, though. So Of course. Because
if their goal is to drive business to
their business,
then, you know but again, it's an end

(01:28:06):
to a means.
It's not that they are trying to find
a sponsorship.
So Right. I mean, that's just one facet.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our building authority or whatever
it may be.
Right.
But I think most podcasters would love to
make money directly from their podcast, though. It's
not like the people don't necessarily

(01:28:28):
I I talk to people that have no
desire to make money from their podcast.
Right. At least 50%.
You think it's 50%? Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah. At least 50%.
It used to be only about 30% cared
about money.
But it's grown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For years,

(01:28:50):
it was 70% could care less, 30% want
to make money,
10% could. I mean, if you really go
back to the beginning,
nobody wanted to money with your podcast was
like,
the, you know, praying to the devil or
something. You know, and that's five to 10
calls I do a week with podcasters. It's
it runs fifty fifty.

(01:29:10):
You know? Yeah. I remember back when I
first started,
I had ads in my show. Well, I
had I I got podcast.
I announced my book, and I lost 50%
of my audience because I'd sold out and
took money. Yeah. Well, that was the same
thing happened to me too. I got I
got criticized because I had ads in my
content.

(01:29:31):
Yeah. Yeah. Bizarre.
It just shows you how things have evolved
and changed. You know, pod podcasting has become,
increasingly
like,
the
I hate to say, but commercial media.
It's increasingly as as radio has integrated themselves

(01:29:53):
into the podcasting and been very influential in
podcasting. It's
taken that advertising
focus into the medium.
No question about it.
Alright, Rob. We're here at the end of
the time. So next week, we'll be
back at our normal time, and then the
following week, I'll be in London.

(01:30:15):
So Next Thursday at three.
Let me see.
Next
Wednesday
at three. Wednesday at three. Right. Yes. Thursday,
my time here, but it's, yeah, we'll be
back on normal
Eastern Standard Time hours.
I'll move the meeting
reminder to that time.
But I had a I have a standing

(01:30:38):
podcast
conversation I was gonna do with somebody at
four.
So I'm Yeah. I'm screwing your schedule up.
But, I'm [e-mail]
geek news on x, [e-mail]
on Mastodon.
I can also be found on x as

(01:30:58):
well at Rob Greenlee and then on YouTube
at Rob Greenlee as well and,
LinkedIn
at Rob Greenlee and
Instagram too. That's Rob
w Greenlee. So that
Instagram
is is the last one I signed up,
of course. I wasn't able to get my
name.
So So, Todd, if Go ahead. If, we
can go for for just an hour next

(01:31:20):
week That'll help you. Make everything work. Okay.
That'll work.
I'll let you adjust.
Okay. Sounds sounds good and I'll be probably
jet lagged a bit anyway. So,
Alright. I'm doing a
I have I have a couple of secret
new things I'm doing I'll talk about next
week.
Anyway, if you look at the Blueberry,

(01:31:40):
YouTube channel, you'll be able to see what
we're doing already.
I'm doing a podcast Mythbuster
series.
Oh.
Comes out every Friday.
Okay. I'll have to go check that out.
Enjoy it.
I think I've got 29
episodes planned.
Oh, planned. So you've done,

(01:32:02):
what, a couple of them now? I've got
one recorded,
published. Second one's recorded, will come out Friday.
And but I've got 29 episodes already
planned, and I'm gonna have a lot of
fun with busting myths.
Busting myths. Okay. It's not Mythbusters because that's
a copyright thing. So it's podcast
in

(01:32:23):
this. Yeah. Are you in in Rob Walsh?
Well, it's I'm not being Rob.
I know you're not being Rob, but he
does the same thing around kind of like
marketing of podcasts and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
again, this is targeted to our YouTube audience.
So
Yeah. Right.
Okay.

(01:32:44):
Alright, everyone. Thanks for being here, and we'll
see you back here next week. I'm back
at,
3PM
eastern,
I think. Pacific. Yeah. There we go. Alright,
everyone. Thanks. We'll see you next time. Alright.
Bye. Good night. Bye.