What is a Podcast Today?

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Oh,

(00:10):
there's also
a a We're going here. Yes. I see.
A PowerPoint present or or a PDF
too.
Weird.

(00:30):
You're getting an image on your side on,
Yeah.
We're all live.
Yeah.
Yeah. I see your your Blueberry logo up
on the screen. Yep. Yep. I'll just let
you know. Good.

(00:52):
Here we go.
Todd and Rob in the afternoon.
Hey.
Afternoon.
With Todd and Rob.
Oh, yeah.

(01:12):
Oh, yeah. Here we are with a new
media show. And, Rob, the audio,
the audio is fixed.
Really? Well, that's great news. I like that.
Me too.
I like to be heard, I guess, a
little bit anyway.
I'm not too egotistical about it. I you
know, I'm a humble guy. And and not
and not to be heard with an echo.

(01:34):
So
Right. Well, it just it's an amplification
of my voice. Yeah. When it goes Exactly.
When I first when I first set up
OBS, for some reason, it wasn't recognizing
it wasn't hearing your voice
And then and then something happened and it
magically started working and I had a second
audio source in and it was just

(01:57):
milliseconds
and just enough to make it sound
like you had a reverb or something in
it. But anyway
Well, some people think having a reverb is
cool. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Well, anyway, welcome. Welcome,
everybody. And,
I am fresh fresh back from,
from Podfest Asia. In fact, my

(02:19):
my voice is a little
a little wretched
but
I I met all kinds of interesting people
and
I I will have to say, Rahab, the
funniest thing
there was a session with
a radio
a radio guy and a they call him

(02:40):
a sexy
what's the word? Sexy actress or something like
that. They don't they don't call
them p o r n stars here.
They
and she's really not a
porn star. She's a
erotica
filmmaker.
That's what I was gonna say. Probably a

(03:01):
a,
specialized entertainer. Well, it's it's it's it's soft.
It's not hard.
Right. Very but it's there is nudity
and,
you know, just everything else, but you you
don't ever see some things. Anyway,
they have a podcast called Too Hot to

(03:22):
Podcast.
Mhmm. And, I I would recommend a subscription.
The,
the
the session was very uncomfortable for very conservative
Filipinos that were in the
in the group

(03:43):
in in the in the tenants,
but it just shows that
the content here has evolved across all genres.
And things are moving.
There's lots of networks being formed. There's
a dedicated
launching of shows and lots of money

(04:04):
coming from The United States a lot
and
they
and I didn't get the full rundown because
it hadn't officially launched yet, but there's a
sports network
that's launching here that's covering all global sports
but
is being paid for
by

(04:25):
somebody in The United States, and I guess
we'll find out whenever that launches. But first
year, they've put a million dollars in.
So that buys a lot of content here.
They're they are going to do
16
sports shows.
And the first year's budget's a million dollars
for 16 shows,
everything,

(04:45):
guest, host, not guest, but the host, and
everyone's gonna be paid. It's it's all
paid content. And I just thought it was
interesting
that that was
happening. Their
their CPMs,
that they're getting here are beating

(05:06):
US CPMs.
On average, 35 and $45
CPMs.
Programmatic
about the same.
And apparently, if you have a 300
to 500
listeners in your show here, you're monetized.
So the standards of monetization

(05:27):
are much much lower,
to be able to find a sponsor in
The Philippines.
So
no signs
of
Spotify though. They were not here.
They've had a big pullback and
while no one really wants to talk about
it,

(05:48):
the
a very bad taste has been left in
people's mouth here over
their basically
extraction
from,
any type of participation,
support,
underwriting,
all of that has
completely dissipated. So there's
some bad blood there.

(06:10):
So they had some programs going that they've
pulled out of. Sounds like.
Yeah.
So it it wasn't all positive,
but the attendance at the event was,
I would say double. So maybe
I I did a head count once and
came up with, like, 65

(06:31):
people.
So,
again, there was So are we clear with
the the listeners and viewers what a what
specific event we're talking about? We're talking about
Podfest Asia. Yeah. In The Philippines. Yep. Yep.
So Where
where in The Philippines? It was in Manila.
Manila. Yeah. In Makati.

(06:52):
So and it it's was in the same
co working space we're in last year. And
if it gets any bigger, they they gotta
have the bigger room.
Yeah. They they've outgrown matter of fact, they
were busting at the seams,
at this location. So it it was good.
Based on the pictures, it looks like a
terrific venue. Yeah. It's a beautiful venue. Nice

(07:14):
Yeah. Nice place. Yeah. And,
what else?
A lot of the same type of things
you hear
in in The United States as far as
topics.
And,
there was, I think, six of us.
That was Chris.
Oh, yeah. There was probably six people from

(07:35):
The US that attended, but the sessions were
probably
seventy,
thirty local.
So not as many you know, we we
participated
in panels and and ad sessions, but,
a lot of a lot of local talent
were having,

(07:56):
you know, basically running the sessions, which was
good.
Yeah.
That is good. Good. So Todd, I like
how you're all color coordinated.
Oh, yeah. I got my got my purple
water bottle. Your purple water bottle and, kind
of bluish
shirt that goes with your background. And believe
me, I I Really good. I I jumped

(08:17):
out of bed and didn't turn the lights
on in the bedroom and grabbed the first
shirt that was on top of the pile.
So, it wasn't by design. It was pure
luck. So
Yeah.
It's all good, though. I like it. And
at the same time, I've got other team
members in
Podcast Movement in Chicago.

(08:37):
Yeah. So what are they saying about the
Evolutions event in Chicago? What's the feedback that
you've had so far? Vendor wise, they said
it's been slow. Very slow.
Yeah.
They couldn't really estimate the size because
sessions are going on continuously.
Yeah.

(08:58):
They concurred no
no booth next year at Evolutions.
They said it's not worth it. So we're
not gonna
do another booth.
We're we'll go to the summer event only
from here on out,
and maybe send a person to the event.
I don't know.
So I'll I'll get more

(09:20):
intel
next week and have more of a report,
but
some of the same faces they've seen at,
Los Angeles.
So I thought that was interesting
that they're
have you heard anything?
Yeah. I've heard,
actually, this came off mostly off of social

(09:40):
media, but I've I've heard that they've,
the number that's being thrown out
around attendance is around 1,600.
And usually, to be fair about it, usually,
if those numbers are being thrown around publicly,
they're probably
inflated by at least
10% or more. Oh, or more.

(10:02):
Yeah. Right.
I I would
and and they couldn't estimate how many people.
I was trying to get a a picture
of, like, keynotes and see how many people
were in the keynotes.
And
the two pictures I saw from keynotes did
not look like 1,600.

(10:23):
But, you know, that's
I mean, that's not that far off from
their their summer event that they have, just
the podcast movement,
full show. Yeah. I think this past year,
was off,
you know, quite a bit. So
I do think it's mostly the same people

(10:44):
going
every show now. Yeah. It's not a different
audience, which is I think what they had
intended with the evolutions event
is that it was gonna be a little
bit of a different show. Yeah. But as
it's turned out, I think they've just turned
out to be the same show. It just
happens twice a year instead of once a
year. Yep.
And it's not growing.

(11:07):
Yeah. Would be the key takeaway. And it's
probably
part of what you're feeling there too, and
I felt it at the last full event
was that there just aren't that many podcasters
that actually go to that that event. It's
all kinda business people. To industry.
Yeah. It's it's the industry folks doing deals
with with,
agents and networks and And existing

(11:29):
and existing,
podcasters.
Yeah. If there are pod casters there, they're
usually probably larger ones because they can afford
to go. Yeah. So Well, in the event
here was held during a holiday, so
they celebrate the end of Ramadan here.
Okay. And so
all the businesses were basically unless they were

(11:51):
a US supported business, they were off.
So it made it great for, you know,
the folks to have the ability to come
and and not have to miss work.
So,
again, podcast keeping with that ethos of,
you know, trying to support creators in a,
you know,

(12:12):
in a time frame
or during
in my whole team's my team has been
in Chicago since Sunday
and they'll set up and everything that's going
on.
You know, you it's a whole week.
It's it's not three days anymore.
It it's you burn a whole week
with travel and everything. So

(12:36):
Yeah. I think I saw people posting on
social media that they they arrived on Sunday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
yeah. And and the show's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
Yeah.
So it's it's like,
okay.
Again,
not not,

(12:56):
at all
supporting so supporting businesses, but not supporting independent
creators.
Yeah. Independent creators can't afford to take that
many days off for work.
Yeah. Right Right in the middle of the
week, and it's not Right. On any part
of the week. There's no rollover into the
weekend at all.

(13:17):
Mhmm. You know, there's no Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
or or Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
So I would imagine that Dan and and
the team over there realize that that's what
they're doing. Oh, they know that.
Yeah. So it must be being done intentionally.
Well, it's not being done intentionally because of
the
The industry Yeah. Need. Right.

(13:39):
Which most of the people that have full
time jobs in the industry
don't really wanna
They don't attend a Yeah. Conference over a
weekend. Yeah. They don't they don't wanna be
gone on a weekend. Exactly.
Right.
Right.
And it I mean, I get it. Makes
sense.
You know? I mean, if if you have
a five five day a week job Monday

(14:00):
through Friday,
those are your workdays. Right? So it's really
not even designed for creators.
No. It's not. And so New creators or
hobbyist creators. Yeah. I think that really explains
what what's happening here.
And it's and it's and it's expensive. You

(14:20):
know, it's very expensive event to go to
too. So
Yeah. So
unless you're into advertising sales and doing deals
with larger shows, if you're a hosting platform,
there's probably not a lot to gain from
being there. Yeah.
So, you know, I mean, just look at
like a company like Lipson or a cast

(14:41):
or
any of those platforms that have advertising
focus
to their their network. That's not to say
that you don't have some advertising. You do.
But it's not I don't think it's a
primary driver of what you guys do.
So So,
anyway, conference season
is off and running.

(15:01):
This is our second one. We went to
a event called TravelCon, which was Oh, yeah.
On the Yeah. In Phoenix. Right? Yeah. I
think we talked about it in the last
show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did. It was
good. So
it it and then soon it's gonna be
the podcast show.
Yep. So that's coming up. It's right around
the corner. It's about a little over a

(15:22):
month from now.
Yeah. Are you going to that? Yeah. I'm
I've I leave here on May 11 and
then the following week, fly to London. I
gotta get my airline tickets booked.
Yeah.
So
That'll be interesting to see what what happens
there. I I'm really starting to think that
that event is really the

(15:42):
the flagship event for the industry.
Well, for Europe, it is. People from The
United States are not gonna be going across
the pond for it.
Well, even though I mean, I heard a
lot of people from The US went over
there. But it's the business people that are
going.
Well, sure. That's because Yeah.
The larger budgets are over there. Yeah. But,
you know, we had good,

(16:03):
you know, and
I I guess the word I would use
is,
there was a fair number of new creators
there. And, you know, part of it is
is they they allow for a day pass.
So people come in. Yeah. That that really
helps a lot because then a person doesn't
have to take a lot of time off.
Yeah. They can just

(16:24):
fly in, go go one day, and maybe
spend a second day and then head back
home. Take a train in and it's Yeah.
Well, that too. It's easy.
You know, Europe is, you know, compared to
The United States, relatively small. You can get
somewhere pretty quickly.
Yeah.
So
but anyway so I guess you've been

(16:45):
excuse me. You've been researching.
What is a definition of podcast?
Are we I just wanted to yeah. I
wanted to do an episode where we kind
of,
see what the consensus is out there on
what people think,
a podcast is right now.
So I did some queries and chat
GPT

(17:05):
into GROC three
and
to Google Gemini
and got some results back. You know? And
I think
that was
one one of the experiments, but I wanted
to to before we dive into that too
deeply, I I wanted to mention that the
ambies awards were just held.
Oh. Podcast movement a couple days ago too.

(17:26):
And Oh, they they had the ambie awards
at podcast movement. They've had It as part
of it. Right? It was like part of
it.
Just yeah. They usually hold it like the
day before,
podcast movement evolutions
starts.
So it's a companion,
event. Mhmm. But it's not really part of

(17:47):
podcast movement per se. But
but they're,
the MBs or the podcast academy is tapping
into the
the attendees,
right, to go to
the podcast movement as their base for people
going to the awards. Right? So it makes
sense. Right?
But
the interesting thing about the ambies, it's it's

(18:07):
seen as, like, it's the most kinda guess,
I guess, most prominent
podcast awards show out there,
because it gets, you know, like Hollywood
media press and coverage and stuff like that.
And it's but
the tagline for the MBs is awards for
excellence in audio.

(18:28):
So
that's an you know, that's been that way
for a few years now. But I think
in the context of this discussion that that
I'd like to have on the show here
around what is a podcast,
it's a it's an interesting
kind of
comparison
that they have that tagline,
the audio excellence in audio tagline,

(18:49):
where your podcast
awards event, Todd, is
contrasting the People's Choice Podcast Awards to honor
excellence in podcasting. Yep.
So
it's a
I think it's a reflection of
the difference, right, in
different parts of the podcast community around what

(19:10):
they
see as what this medium is.
And it begs the question. I mean, you've
left the door open for this for the
awards to be potentially
about the full spectrum of
what podcasting could be seen as, where the
ambies are saying, well,
podcasting is just
audio.

(19:30):
Well So to an appoint,
I do require you have an RSS feed
to see if you can show. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. But I think you said last year
that you had quite a few shows submit
to you
that were
YouTube only programs that were Yeah. But they
that's podcasts. Right? They couldn't apply unless they

(19:53):
have an RSS feed. That's feed. So did
you,
you had to drop those? Is that what
you're saying? They they never got through the
application process because we don't let you submit
unless you paste in your RSS feed.
Got it. Okay.
Did you have many shows submit to you
that had,
video RSS feeds? It was probably

(20:18):
handful.
Again, I'll have to have to go back
and look.
It's probably a small amount. Small number. I
would imagine.
But I think that the ambies have kind
of positioned themselves As audio.
As audio.
And I know that the But did they
recognize anybody that was to NVIDIA?

(20:39):
Well, I mean,
just because the events
focuses on audio doesn't exclude the fact that
those audio programs could have video versions. Got
it. Right. So I guess it's a it
it just it's it's kind of this bigger
question
around, well, what is a podcast? Right? What's
the definition of a podcast today? And I

(21:00):
think this contrast between your event and the
ambies is a good example of the
of where we are at. And so I
did,
a couple of queries, just basic query in
in,
in Google. Right? So Google has the AI
kind of Gemini,

(21:21):
kind of
built into the search queries. And and so
I did a specific query into
what a podcast I mean, what is a
podcast? It was just a very simple question
that I posed to
to Google and Gemini, and it,
and it came back with a result that
says a podcast is essentially a digital audio

(21:41):
program
that you can download or stream from the
Internet often in the form of a series
or episodes.
And here's the the breakdown of that.
Think
radio show,
but on demand.
Unlike traditional radio, you can listen to a
podcast
whenever,

(22:03):
and wherever you want. A podcast series is
is a series of episodes focused on a
particular topic. Now
audio,
but it also comes up in the results
as audio focused
but
have video.
While podcasts are primarily an audio medium,
some creators also offer video versions

(22:25):
or supplemental video content
often found in YouTube.
Mhmm. So
that's what AI says about it. Right? So
it's kind of,
you know, couching the
the conflict a little bit. Right?
Or the
the perception. Right? That it's

(22:46):
primarily audio, which I would say is true.
I think podcasting is primarily audio.
And so I'm not saying that it's wrong.
I'm just saying that it's it's probably seeing
what's happened in a broader scope and
and
and defining it correctly. And and
I think chat g p t four point,
o,

(23:06):
came back saying a podcast is a digital
audio and sometimes video show. So there's some
synergies here between what
chat
g p t four o is saying as
well as the Gemini platform.
It says like radio or TV,
but is distributed primarily over the Internet. Listeners

(23:27):
can stream
or download episodes
to listen on demand
using
various apps. Right.
And they're usually
episodic
on demand.
Typically hosted via RSS feed
is the technical form. Right?

(23:49):
But it it says note, some platforms like
Spotify are starting to bypass RSS.
Mhmm.
And so that's what,
chat GPT now granted, obviously,
if you've used these platforms,
it gives you a lot more
output

(24:09):
than I would feel comfortable just reading into
the show today. But,
so it actually so
so and then grok three
is a is a little bit more direct
about it. Okay.
It says
for the same query, what is a podcast?
Question mark.
A podcast is a digital audio or video

(24:32):
series
that is typically
distributed
over the Internet
and can be downloaded or streamed
on various devices such as a smartphone, computers,
or tablets.
So
many say that Grok three is the best
AI out there.

(24:53):
Granted,
I'm sure that there's
there's,
versions of chat
GPT that are better than I think they
all are,
you know Four point o. Whereas everyone, you
know,
many people are hating on x right now.
I I,
you know, I'm sure a lot of people
would contest that Grok is the best. But,

(25:15):
you know, in in the end,
I think,
Mayo's prime example was there was someone that
was saying that you have to have audio
yesterday
at Podfest Asia.
I mean, you have to have video. It's
just that, you know, you have to. Oh.
Like and I kinda came in before I
gave my presentation,
which I did on AI,

(25:37):
and basically said, hey. Here, you know, some
things I've heard
that I will let you, you know, based
on twenty years of experience, let you think
a little bit about.
And I asked the question, how many of
you knew
that you could do video podcast via RSS
and not a single hand went up?
Not a single hand in that whole group.

(25:59):
Yeah. So I, you know, I explained then
that podcast
have been video has been supporting podcast since
the beginning
and people were astounded.
Yeah. I thought
I thought it was interesting of all the
output that all three of these AI platforms
gave me.
None of them mentioned anything about video VRSS.

(26:20):
Right. So, you know, it's definitely missing from
the
the conversation
Yes. That's happening around the definition of a
podcast.
Any even in the GROC three, if you
read if you read that paragraph, that first
paragraph that came up on that query on
grok three, it says a tip a podcast
is a digital audio or video series that

(26:44):
is
typically distributed over the Internet. Now granted, it's
audio or video.
It's not audio
or
video or both,
which
which I would say is probably more a
reflection of where we are today.
I I think it's three choices,

(27:06):
I think,
is what the market is actually having to
grapple with right now.
So I I asked a direct question.
Are video podcasts supported in RSS feeds? And
at GBT said, yes. Video podcast support RSS
feeds. They've been part of podcasting since the
early days.

(27:26):
And then it just gives an example.
Platforms that support video in RSS, Apple Podcasts,
podcast, attic, Podverse, Overcast, and Modern Podcasts app,
especially those in the podcasting two point o
ecosystem.
Interesting.
Also also chat
GPT mentioned the podcasting two point o Yeah.

(27:47):
Project. Yeah.
That's good. That's a what. So let's ask
the next question. What what host
support
video podcasting
by RSS.

(28:11):
See what they say.
Blueberry top, Libsyn number two, Odd Bean number
three. That's it. Nope. Oh, Castos.
Says rss.com
allows
uploading video files
and Pinecast has limited experiment experimental support.

(28:34):
So there's a
so that's interesting. I think
I think the Hubhopper platform out of out
of the country of India,
also supports video podcast too.
So interesting hosts that do not support video
via RSS, Spotify for podcasters, Anchor
merged into Spotify for your podcast, Buzzsprout,

(28:55):
Transistor, Captivate, Simplecast
that don't support
video VRS. Now Spotify supports
video,
but not VRS. Direct upload. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
A matter of fact that upload. Matter of
fact, that conversation,
again, lack of awareness is sometimes a issue
the folks did not were not aware that

(29:16):
Spotify
overlays
and The audio. The audio and then your
your audio is demonetized.
That was actually a shock to some.
Yeah.
So Yeah.
So
We just have to keep educating.
Yes. Yes. So I wanted to mention too

(29:38):
that there was a new,
audio series.
I'll have to emphasize this from the
the podcast called Media Roundtable. Mhmm. It's actually
a podcast,
that's
led by Dan Granger, who's the CEO of
Oxford road,
who's been a guest on this podcast before.

(29:58):
He's been with us before, but
he did a three part series,
basically addressing this question.
What is a podcast?
And really kinda
the shape of that. And it's actually part
of our research study that was done also,
Todd. It's it's the white paper link that's

(30:20):
in the document.
K.
And they do have some
some study kinda like,
slides, that kind of stuff that were in
there. And it tries to
address this,
what is a podcast
question.
I guess this survey that they did, basically
is data that was compiled over 4,000 Americans,

(30:44):
that came up with this. So there's a
three part series,
called what is a podcast?
And so you can go listen to it.
It it's got a lot of the a
lot of familiar names, like James Cridland was
in there, and
even even Norm Paddis from Wow. Podcast one
was was

(31:04):
some audio was used in this three part
series.
But,
really, they talked about,
really the the origins of podcasting.
They they mentioned Adam Curry
and Dave Weiner and but they kind of
glossed over some
aspects of

(31:24):
the early stages of the,
of the medium. And the big thing that
they glossed over was, was video podcasting.
So
the whole series was very focused on
the involvement of,
public radio
and,
and audio as as as the focus. And
it was very

(31:46):
commercial,
advertising
centric in its
topic flow.
But they came to the kind of the
same conclusion that that I did. If you
listen to the third episode,
Dan kind of kind of pulls it back
based on what he sees.
And he basically

(32:07):
gives a description of podcasting is kinda like
what we were just talking about. It's a
it's a primarily
audio medium that
has
elements of a a video that are growing
in their availability. And and that's what the
that's what the future looks like,
is that
video is gonna be coming,

(32:29):
having a
a stronger place in the medium.
But it also
the consensus was is that most of the
people that were involved in this series and
giving commentary
were people that either came from,
public radio
or they were people that work in the
audio side of podcasting.

(32:49):
So everything that was talked about in this
series was
was definitely slanted towards
that priority. Right? And
and, you know, which is, you know, I
think
audio is by far
the largest element even though we keep hearing.
And I know that,
some data came out saying that Apple is

(33:11):
still
I think James Kirdlin put this out too.
Apple is still the biggest consumption,
platform for podcasts.
Even though
there's maybe more people using what's seen as
a podcast in Spotify and
in YouTube, but what platform are they consuming
the most podcasts in is the question.

(33:33):
It's interesting because I was
wanted to be able to see,
I wanted to see the presentations from both
James
and from
Oh, Tom.
Well, Coleman insights and Amplify Media did something
together
and

(33:55):
Yeah. So let me see if I can
of course, Webster did
a keynote yesterday as well.
Mhmm.
Let's see if I can find the information
from James if his his stuff was published
or not.
Let me see. Okay. Share
yeah. Let's see here.

(34:16):
The biggest podcast
in app
okay. What is the biggest
contract? Yeah. That's the one where
where he mentions that Apple is still the
largest. Still the largest. Insumption app. Insumption app.
Yeah. Via downloads and views.
Right.

(34:39):
Oh, that's But the industry is still
still
conflating this issue of
of saying that,
plays on on YouTube are
counted as downloads.
Yeah. And that's not the case.
There's
there's still people doing that. I think pod
track was the one that was pointed to

(35:01):
that that that was still referring to YouTube.
Yeah.
Plays or views
as downloads.
So they're trying to
synergize all this stuff, and I get
I kinda get the reason why they're doing
that. I mean Yeah. Their business models are
impacted. Only half of the top shows are
posting video. 32.9%

(35:23):
of the top shows
aren't there.
Interesting.
Yeah. A third of them of the big
shows are not doing any video. Yeah. So
who's doing YouTube?
Post
full video episodes YouTube, a 30.
That's weird.
Post full video episodes YouTube, 30%.

(35:45):
Post audio only videos, 50%. How do you
get more than a 30%?
I don't get Yeah. I wasn't sure on
that either. Yeah. It's a weird side.
Over indexing. Is that what that's called?
Yeah. Maybe.
I thought James was gonna be producing
a report as well from his survey.

(36:07):
Yeah. I thought so too. I don't know.
Maybe his maybe his presentation is tomorrow or
something. Could be. Yeah.
That that certainly could be, Todd. Yeah.
I guess Tom Tom Webster's keynote,
yesterday also
I guess the topic that he focused on
was the need for the industry to convert

(36:29):
occasional listeners to more frequent
consumers,
which would lead me
to point to Apple. Right? Right.
Because if
if we're trying to get,
heavier listeners, right, or
listeners that are more engaged to more content
Yeah. I think is what he's talking about.

(36:51):
You know, occasional listeners to turning into more
frequent
listeners or or viewers. Well,
I
mean, what causes that to happen? Yeah.
Is it
is
Spotify the best platform
to encourage that when they're constantly,

(37:12):
teased all all sorts of other types of
content to go consume?
Mhmm.
Or is it better in a in a
very focused app, like an Apple podcast app,
to
to get people to consume more. I think
that the model
that works
for consumption seems to point to more of
an Apple model.

(37:35):
Yeah.
Yeah. Would you tend to agree with that?
I think so.
But it's it's a more specialized
app. Well, you know, I I think, you
know, the whole industry is gonna be you
know, if if you're smart,
at this point in the game,
you know, I I think
specialized apps for communities, I think it's gonna

(37:57):
get very narrow.
I I I think that, you know, if
you want to grow
your audience Talking about that for years, I
believe, these kind of, like, niche genre apps.
And it's sad how they've, you know, Apple
and Android have really bastardized
the PWAs
and not made them as, you know,
as easy to manipulate as a regular

(38:19):
because it would be really easy. You know,
I could spin up
20 different,
niche.
I could do that in a week,
you know, category focused
content.
I'm actually gonna experiment a little bit with
that,
you know, this quarter
and and basically kind of seeing what kind

(38:41):
of traction I can get with a couple
of,
curated
categories.
And,
just to
because I've I've got these tools at Blueberry
that allows us to build, you know, networks.
So why not see if we can, you
know, if we can get a little bit
of,

(39:02):
more traction for our podcasters
within their specific categories.
Mhmm.
So, yeah, I'm just gonna so maybe we've
got more coming from Podcast Movement.
Yeah. I'm sure we do. I I thought
James is
he would be publicizing
his results if it if it if he'd

(39:22):
already released it.
Yeah.
I
I would agree. I think tomorrow isn't tomorrow
like the
the second day? Yes. It is.
Yeah.
So,
yeah, I'm just looking at the news here,
and I'll I'll email Jay and say, can
I get a copy of your presentation as

(39:43):
well to
share on the show next week? Because they
were talking a lot about the audio video
in in this study. Matter of fact, I
provided some context just from our database. I
don't think it's used in the study, but
they were, you know, they're having they were
looking to
validate some some information.

(40:04):
But what's funny is I'm starting. It's it
I don't know if people just pick up
on it
and run with it.
Because, you know, like, as an example, I've
said for years that, you know,
50% of podcasters don't make it to episode
seven. Well, someone in podcast Asia, someone said,
well, it was 10. 10 was the number.

(40:24):
And, and I'm I'm kinda giggling. That would
be great if it was, but I think
it's actually probably lower. It is lower.
And, and then another percentage of people said
that,
it was like seventy thirty, 70 percent listen,
30%
watch. I'm like,
oh, I've said seventy thirty for my personal
show for years. This show is more eighty

(40:45):
twenty.
And,
so it was, you know, I'm kind of
giggle. I'm like, hey. Where did they where
did they pick this up? Was this just
an echo chamber or something?
You know, one person says it and then
it just gets rinse, wash, repeat.
You know,
not I don't know about you, but I
haven't seen any studies that kind of clearly

(41:06):
clearly lays that out like that. I I've
got it from validated data. Maybe we should
do our own
report. Blueberry talked about that. Todd. I mean
I mean, you're only I mean, you're one
of the
the three podcast host that is hosting video.
So You know it. I can't imagine that
there's any other platform that would be a
better, But, you know, here's here's the next

(41:26):
piece of that then here. I'm sorry. My
I'm really organized today. My collar was rolled
up. I had the wrong logo up for
the first fifteen minutes of the show,
advertising blueberry instead of new media show. So
I'm I'm a hot mess here.
It
it maybe, you know, maybe that would be
something good to look at. But here's the
the the kicker then. What if those video

(41:46):
shows actually have YouTube channels then do I
include?
Right. Well, how do you gonna aggregate all
that? How do I include that data, you
know. So
Yeah. Or are they and again, we have
some people that aren't on YouTube. They're on,
Rumble or, you know, other sites.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's true. But

(42:09):
yeah. Anyway, go ahead.
There's lots of options that creators now Oh,
yeah. Podcasters
have for for getting their content out. It's
Distributed. Actually, it's crazy how much. It's it
hasn't changed that much, but it's a
reminder.
And again, you know, I'll stick with what

(42:29):
I've said for years. I don't care whether
they watch or listen as long as they
watch or listen.
And,
you know, I know where my bread is
buttered as a company.
So
from that regard
It is hard to be everywhere though.

(42:51):
Effectively.
It's like I'm not effective on YouTube.
Yeah. We have some people come in and
watch.
But I I don't get maybe hundred views
on this content in YouTube.
And whereas,
you know, we get three, four thousand people
that are
I think it's about I think we peaked

(43:12):
out, Todd, with this show
on my channel.
I think we had one episode that we
did
that I think got like over 3,000
plays. Well, that's pretty good. And and you're
you've been focusing on it. I, you know,
I
I try to do a little bit of
stuff but and nowhere near as to what
you do.
So But

(43:33):
it's it's it's kinda rare though. And I
think generally,
the topic that we cover is doesn't really
interest a large number of people though. That
that's the other part of it. Yeah. We're
not sloshing beer and swearing and cussing and
yeah. Right.
Well, no. I think the whole

(43:53):
genre topic of podcasting is definitely saturated.
So, you know, podcasts about podcasting are
there's there's a lot of content out there
right now.
I do see,
people quitting YouTube though because they can't handle
the
big big YouTubers quitting because they can't handle

(44:15):
the constant grind
that YouTube demands,
the pacing,
and,
and and all the stuff that they have
to do to to fight the Alago.
So Yeah. It is
I would say just based on what I
see,
with it too is that I I do
think that you get

(44:36):
paid
by the algorithm
better if you
publish more often. Right. If you
can get like maybe two to three episodes
or two to three videos out a week
or more. Yeah.
I think the algorithm
and then get your thumbnails
and your descriptions and your metadata,

(44:58):
you know, nailed down and done done well.
But increasingly and this this came up in
the series too, that that media roundtable series
too, is that there's this
kind of
conflict that we're coming up against
and that's
the Alago, like you talked about the algorithms.
Right? That

(45:19):
that these big platforms and YouTube is the
biggest culprit right now.
But I also think that, you know, TikTok
and Instagram and these other plat platforms have
the same issue, but,
more and more creators are creating,
topics and content
to feed the algorithm. Oh, that's horrible.

(45:40):
To do what the algorithm wants. Right. To
do what works
for the algorithm. What what ultimately works
well for the the viewer,
because that's the kind of content they're looking
for.
But it it's basically making content creators

(46:01):
kinda like empty vessels of sorts. Right? That
all they're doing is is, like you said,
feeding the algorithm Yeah.
Versus creating content based on their passions. But
there is there is a certain
it's been an unwritten thing. We've never, you
know and Apple's never

(46:21):
I don't think
Apple effects shows based upon posting schedule. But,
you know, there's historically
known
if you're not in someone's ear every week,
we know that growth rates are much slower
but I don't think you're negatively impacted
by not putting out two or three episodes.
Matter of fact, within Apple podcast or podcast

(46:43):
apps,
you're actually almost penalized
a little bit if you're doing more. Like
people that do daily shows, they don't realize
they could actually be hurting themselves
by doing a daily
in that
if people don't listen
for three, four, five,
miss four five days, then they're gonna run

(47:03):
into an issue with people not being able
you know, all of a sudden they're gonna
be in a in a catch up mode.
And we learned this with in the early
days by going to CES
and recording all these interviews
that
he would say, why does it take you
two months to get all your interviews out?

(47:24):
And it was because we purposely
only released three interviews a week because we
got hurt
by putting out a new interview every day.
Yeah. Because we didn't we were dripping
the content out
and people would pick it up and then
it so it had twenty four, forty eight
hours to percolate
and then we drop another

(47:45):
interview.
Sometimes we'd go three days and and, you
know, do it during the week
because we know that drop off happens on
the weekend in podcasting.
Whereas in YouTube, the the content listing goes
up in certain genres.
So because people are selling their couches and
they're instead
versus in their cars.

(48:06):
So,
you know, we dripped the content,
and that's how we're able to achieve
massive
numbers on that content.
But yet, I'd have vendors pissed off that
it's forty five days.
Yeah. Right. Took them a long time to
get their content up. Yeah. But but, you
know, we had it ready, but we purposely
couldn't drop,

(48:28):
you know, 200 videos.
Yeah. And and to dovetail off of that
too. I do think that there's probably
a limit and I think it also gets
back to it. It really gets back to
the engagement
level that you have with your audience too.
I mean,
I know that there's live shows out there

(48:49):
that get hundreds of thousands of people listening
to them. Yeah. Daily. Right?
There are shows like that out there and
they're they're big. I mean, like a 200,000
people watching a live video show at the
same time. Yeah. Sports shows. Hardcore.
Hardcore.
Hardcore
fans. And and some of those shows are

(49:12):
audio podcasts too. Yeah. And they're hour long,
that go out daily.
And it's
How many does Rogan do a week?
He does five days a week. My god.
And and each of his episodes are between
two and three hours. Yeah.
Right. So So you if you're if you're

(49:33):
listening to Rogan, you're not listening to anyone
else.
You're probably not. And that really tells you
that
the level of engagement that he has. But
Yeah. I don't know about you, Todd, but
if if I listen to Joe Rogan, I'm
I'm pretty selective about which episode Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I am too. Because I would
say that the way he does his metadata,
like his titling of his episodes, doesn't really

(49:55):
help the listener decide who to listen to.
Mhmm.
Because all all he puts into his episode
titles
of his videos and his audios
is the episode number
and the name of the guest.
That's it.
And unless you recognize
the name of the Right.

(50:15):
The guest, you wouldn't know that you might
have an interest in listening to it
because he doesn't put a topic.
That was hit it it there was something
that was hit upon in Rogan at Podcast
Asia. They were like
remember,
you know,
the Spotify,
was exclusive and now he's not. He's available

(50:36):
and they use the word YouTube. He's now
available on YouTube.
Is his full episodes available on YouTube?
Yeah. Oh, they are now.
And they didn't talk about the full episodes
are now available outside in podcast apps too.
And I just I'm smack in my head.
I'm like,
hey.
You know, don't don't get so focused on
the shiny lure.

(50:59):
Yeah. And that was I can't find an
audio only,
feed for Joe Rogan in the
the Spotify app. It's only video.
Oh, interesting.
So he's he's putting his audio out via
RSS via probably megaphone.
Yeah. But it's it it I I can't

(51:20):
find the audio version inside of Spotify for
Wow. It's not because they've eaten their drank
their own Kool Aid and,
you know,
and just post the video.
But I've noticed that other properties that Spotify
has,
they're not doing video.
So,

(51:41):
you know, like the ringer,
sports network
isn't publishing
any video. Wow. They're smart. They've they've chosen
not to do that
because they knew that they were gonna be
negatively impacted revenue wise.
Well, it's an internal its own I mean,
they Spotify owns Ringer?

(52:01):
Yeah. What?
Yeah. The guy that founded that is actually
part of the content team. Oh,
I didn't know they got bought by Spotify.
Oh, yeah. It was a couple of years
ago. Was it Megaphone or Spotify?
It was Spotify.
Oh. Yeah.
It's a deal like like well, actually, it's
even

(52:22):
a deeper deal than even even even Joe
Rogan. Oh, it's a okay. It's a
It's an owned network. Oh, owned network. It's
a sports it's a sports platform.
Yeah. And I think too is some people
there was a
and I I just couldn't let it stand.
Someone said, if you're over on Spotify, you'll
be able to get monetized. And

(52:43):
I had to
step up and say, listen. Listen. Listen. This
that's not the case.
Not everyone gets monetized
on Spotify. I said you have to understand
what the qualifications for video are,
and you have to be part of a
network that's supported.
Like, has add
has an ad integration with Spotify.

(53:03):
I said you don't Well, it has pass
through, you mean?
Well, no. They were talking about getting at
getting money from Spotify,
or their audio podcast and I'm like this
doesn't happen through hosting. Yeah. This doesn't happen
automatically.
You know, you you have to be at
an echelon
show
and you have to be part of,

(53:25):
you know, a a group.
You just this just doesn't happen automatically.
You know, so there's a lot of falsehoods
people put out.
And one of the things came from someone
well known in the space. I had to
go back to him later and say, hey,
what you said is incorrect.
And oh, I didn't know that.
And I said, yeah. So you know, please

(53:46):
before you make a blanket statement like that,
make sure you know exactly, you know, what
the deal is. How people actually are making
money.
Yeah. Especially in past Complicated landscape. Yeah. It's
a complicated landscape and a lot of people
don't get the right impression.
Yeah. People say, oh, I'm making money on
x y z.

(54:08):
Well, well, great. So if one person's making
money, someone else should be making money. Well,
that's not always the case
because there's there's specifics for each.
Yeah.
And certain platforms have capabilities that other ones
don't have. So I mean hosting platforms.
Yeah. I talked with a ad sales rep

(54:29):
there and
and I said, hey. We've we've
got a number of Filipino shows on Blueberry.
I said, we have programmatic and you're saying
you're buying into programmatic. How come you're not
buying into sound stacking?
And she goes, who are they? And I'm
like,
you know all these other companies,
these big names,

(54:49):
but you didn't know SoundStack?
How did you not know them?
And I think a lot of I think
a lot of people don't know about SoundStack
though.
Yeah. Maybe.
It's not a household name
by any means. So I said It's nothing
to take away from them. They and they're
doing a terrific job, but it's it's just

(55:10):
not a brand that
most podcasters know about. And I said, you
know, I got x number of shows that
are being monetized programmatically and SoundStack's a provider
of that.
And Yeah. You know, I was kinda got
this shock look, you know. I was like,
oh, no.
So we'll make that introduction.
So they obviously have some work to do
to, you know.

(55:31):
You know. I mean, that's that's the value
of of podcast education
Yeah. Is to help people
understand the complexities of this medium because it
it it's not like it used to be,
right, Todd, where it was pretty easy to
explain to people how this stuff works. Well,
it was, you know, US, Canada,
UK

(55:51):
Right. Were being monetized and anything outside of
that was kind of ignored. And I'm like,
well,
here you've got this show too hot to
podcast
that is doing numbers.
Yeah.
They should have advertisers,
you know, that it wanna be in those
show. Now it's maybe too hot. Maybe that's
the problem.

(56:12):
Maybe it's too hot for
advertisers, but,
I think it's kind of funny when they
say it's too hot to podcast. I didn't
know that was an actual thing.
Well the early years of podcasting had
had a lot of porn in it too.
Yeah and they're not doing porn but they're
doing
well I mean sexually It's sexually explicit content

(56:34):
and there's a lot of that is out
there and there's a number of
very popular women's podcasts that are doing
Yeah. Yeah. Doing some pretty,
I guess, we'll call it sexy work.
Yeah. Sexy work. Sexy discussions. The work's the
wrong word. Exactly. I apologize. Or
candid discussions. Yeah. Very, very candid discussion. Human

(56:57):
sexuality.
Right.
Yeah.
And, you know, that those type of shows
are not entirely what I was referring to.
So I'm not saying porn podcasts. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm
when I say porn podcasts, what I'm saying
is it's people were publishing
porn videos Right. Into episodes

(57:19):
in via RSS. Well, I guess they're having
some trouble with that somewhere. I think they're
having some trouble with that on Spotify.
Yeah. Where they're actually having adult content come
in or, you know, real stuff, you know,
like
like stuff you wouldn't want your children to
see.
Yeah. I also yeah. I saw this back
when I was working on on Zoom at

(57:39):
Microsoft.
So I had to filter that stuff out,
as much as I can because it it
clearly went against our
Well terms of service. Just as an FYI,
Blueberry is good. We are all about free
speech. So if you wanna come do your
sexy podcast on Blueberry, please come on over.
Well, we're happy to have you.

(58:00):
Well
and and some of these podcasts were audio
only if you can just envision that. I'm
sure.
So
so, anyway, that's where it kinda walks a
fine line. Right? Yeah.
What's and
just as a little
back fact
and this is kind of curious.

(58:22):
During the pandemic,
here in The Philippines, everything was locked down.
Yeah. So no one was filming anything. The
only thing it was being filmed
that was making money and feeding families
was this
erotica content
from within
homes.

(58:42):
Oh.
So that
market
flourished through
the pandemic.
Type content.
Yeah. Because they could continue.
And it was a network of,
any a big a big company
that was and, again, it wasn't,
you know, p o r n.

(59:04):
It was,
you know, erotica type content.
Again, there's a fine line, I guess, depends
on who you are and what you'll define
as what.
But, yeah, they said that that business,
thrived during the pandemic where everything else just
got obliterated.
So it kinda makes sense

(59:25):
in that,
you know, get a camera delivered to your
house
and some lights and, you know, you probably
can, you know, set up shop.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. You have
two consenting adults that,
are okay with that. Yeah.

(59:45):
Or more. Right? Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So there the content in podcasting has
spanned quite the spectrum over the years. Oh,
yeah.
Yeah. From the daily download to,
and that wasn't a that wasn't a show
about podcasting. I'll just make that way.

(01:00:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So But, you know, and here's the
sad part. But, you know, people
I I don't see people going after super
creative,
you know,
shock value content at this point.
And I don't know why
we have it. Why don't we have more
shock value content in podcasting? It was it

(01:00:29):
was it was really, like, super popular in
the early days.
Like,
like
Jerry Springer type formats. Is that what you're
talking about? Well, I'm just talking about stuff
that is, you know,
you know,
is in the French made. Just, you know,
Tim. Oh. That type of stuff, you know.

(01:00:50):
What I did notice,
a couple of,
old video podcasts
have started popping up again. Oh, really?
Yeah.
I did you notice that Kevin Rose and
Alec Alex Albright have relaunched their Dignation series?
A little grayer in the tooth. How are
they? Yeah. Definitely. Both those guys are grayer.

(01:01:12):
And then,
you know, when they start do anything. They're
they're all both independently wealthy. I'm sure.
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Especially Kevin.
Also, I saw
more social posts popping up about the Ask
a Ninja podcast.
That's funny.

(01:01:34):
So well, I mean Why not? That series
was very, very entertaining. I would put it
in the same
ballpark as the French the French made TV
stuff. Yeah. Right?
Yeah.
So,
yeah, Tim got inducted in the hall of
fame for that for doing that series. Yes.
He did. You know, Tim's done a lot

(01:01:55):
of stuff for the you know, he's one
of those he's one of those guys that
just
Keeps chugging along. Yeah. You know, and has
has done a variety
of of things in the podcasting space. And,
Tim Street is who we're talking about. Yeah.
He's
works for authentic was it Authentic. Authentic? Yeah.

(01:02:16):
Yeah. And, you know, he's just one of
those part of pot track. He just does
one of he just keeps doing his thing,
you know, and
a real good guy.
You know? Well, he was a Hollywood Producer,
Director Yeah.
For many, many years. Yeah. In in and
I'd be honest with you, it's guys like
him that
did a lot of stuff in the podcasting
space that really, you know, helped grow the

(01:02:36):
medium.
Yeah. There's a lot of, you know, there's
a lot of people like that. So Well,
he can he can bring a lot of
insight to
folks that are interested in
getting into video too. Yeah. Again. Again.
Again. Again.
Again. Again. Right.
So it's it's
it's

(01:02:58):
interesting, Todd, in our purview,
how how things have gone in cycles. Right?
So we've
seen things
come and we've seen things go and then
we've seen them come back again and then
we see them
come back again even more. So Yeah. That's
kinda what's happening with this video discussion.

(01:03:18):
I was having a discussion
with,
I don't remember. It was it was one
of maybe it was one of the folks
that were in from The United States that
was at the event and talking about the
cost of media delivery and,
you know, where
I just kind of giggled because my AWS

(01:03:39):
bill has, you know, stayed about this much.
Yeah. And the reason it stayed about this
much for many, many years is the decreasing
cost of bandwidth.
And that if I had to pay
what I was paying
even ten years ago
for bandwidth,

(01:04:00):
I couldn't survive. I'd have to increase the
prices of the service.
And,
people are shocked when I talk about
how hosting companies have not raised their prices
literally in twenty years
and
and that's saying a lot considering
what's been happening
with the

(01:04:21):
inflation of the dollar. I'm gonna tell you
there is heavy pressure.
There's heavy pressure at this point. And I
can't imagine I don't believe that. With the
increase of
health care and everything else that goes along.
At some point,
you know, we've all we've ridden the bandwidth
thing down to lower, you know, the

(01:04:41):
the
cost of doing this has gotten the point
now where
pretty soon,
there there might become a reckoning where we
have to raise
hosting prices,
in order to survive.
Or will bandwidth
No. Continue to drop. It it it can

(01:05:02):
incrementally
drop.
We're already
as
you know again, I'm now
negotiating on
what's the best word? No. No. I don't
think it can go that much further.
So let's just use an example. Let's say
sub penny.
So if you're negotiating
for sub penny, let's say 0.003

(01:05:27):
or $0.00
$2.07 5.00275
per gig. That's pretty low. Right. That's pretty
low.
So, you know, and in considering we started
out at it as at 10¢.
Yeah. So we went from 10¢
to sub penny.
Now if you go and do a renegotiation,

(01:05:47):
unless you've added petabytes
of new
traffic. And again, you have to add petabytes
to get a better,
a better deal. You might go from point
zero zero two seven five to point zero
two two five.
But at scale,
But at scale, you're still the incremental return

(01:06:09):
now is the incremental reduction is,
again, if you have additional bandwidth
Right.
Then that makes sense.
But
Once we move into video more
on that side, does that
incrementally
overall raise raise the cost or does it

(01:06:29):
put you in the pricing? Oh, yeah. It
it well,
before I
had video on risk,
you know, you just prayed that you didn't
get Joe Rogan come in with video content.
You know, that is that's that just that'll
kill you in one in one month.
Two hundred thousand dollar hosting bill.

(01:06:50):
You know, we get that kind of a
bill. You that that takes the wind out
of your sails.
So
you know, so we're at risk in those
early days.
Now it's not as much. So example, this
show
in the early days cost 10¢ to deliver
via RSS.
Mhmm. Now it's it's

(01:07:12):
a sub penny.
So but it's still sub penny
and multiply that by a popular show
and you get in some real dollars very,
very, very, very, very quickly.
Mhmm. Or the risk on audio,
you know, I get done and put this
up. This will be 48, maybe, probably 70

(01:07:34):
megs.
Well, if you look
at what's happening with like a YouTube and
a Spotify
And YouTube put in their own Fiverr.
So they Yeah. So they own their own
own bandwidth
is what what it comes to. I don't
think a lot of people understand that or
realize that, but they've
they own their own fiber network,

(01:07:55):
and they they have data centers, hubs all
over the world. And they go to pops
everywhere where they are there. They bring in
the fiber to the building and
Right. And then make those direct connections between
the source publishing
Yeah.
And the the streaming side. So they basically
less. They have plant expenditures

(01:08:17):
and upkeep, but they they pay nothing
Or scale. Or bandwidth transfer. It's in it's
in the electricity, obviously.
But, you know, I can't imagine did what
their,
you know, internal when they map that out,
what it actually I'm sure it's like point
zero zero zero zero zero something

(01:08:37):
per gigabit.
Well, they're probably gated only by how much
fiber they have and what the capacity of
the fiber is.
Yeah. And and and now fiber's gotten to
the point where it's multiplexing
and, you know, they're, you know, what original
fiber
and then what they're
it was used to be one stream down,
you know, and that was it.

(01:08:58):
Now it's multiplexed and frequencies and, you know,
the technology is advanced where they they're getting
more bang for the buck out of that
single fiber line. But and when they put
those fibers in, by the way, they just
didn't put a single fiber down.
Oh, no. It's it's a bundle of big
thick cable.
Right? That And it's not that big. It's

(01:09:19):
yeah. Like pop that, but you can stuff
a lot. Bunch of
Yeah. It's a bunch of those all in
one big one, though. Yeah. Depending on where
they're running, but you're right. Yeah. And I
think all all all they had to do
is boost the the power of the laser
that shoots through that. Right? Now they again,
they change they unplug it and put it
in a new gear and the new gear
has new tech. It's still the same fiber.

(01:09:41):
Right.
So
but, again, I I think, you know, in
the end here, going back to the podcast
host discussion,
you know, at some point, there'll have to
be an addressal of cost.
It just there's there's there's gonna be no
choice.
Well, that and also
as platforms like yourself, like like like Blueberry

(01:10:03):
adds more AI technical support in into the
platform that adds more value to the platform
and
should be compensated,
based on based on the fact that your
platform is replacing other services that creators were
having to pay for outside of your platform
too. So Yeah.
I can see how that would map over

(01:10:24):
time to It's amazing how much money creators
are spending for their shows now.
You know? I when I ask, you know,
some people are spending upwards of $200
a month to do their show
and third party tools.
So Yeah. I think if you think about
all all the AI tools
Yeah. That are that people are using out
there, especially if they're doing doing video,

(01:10:47):
like the Opus clips and the
the descript tool and things like that. Right.
That can easily get you up to a
hundred bucks a month.
So it's, you know, it's it's an interesting
time in the space and it still remains,
challenging
for sure.
And,
you know, it's one of the reasons we're

(01:11:08):
diversifying
with some new products.
So as we get back to this topic
on what is a podcast,
where do you see,
Todd, this whole conversation about
YouTube and trying to consolidate metrics and, you
know, I think that there's an interest and
I heard this
voice in the media roundtable discussions too around

(01:11:31):
trying to bring together
more of this
information about audience. Right? Because it's
and one thing we haven't really talked about
in this episode either is how
the emphasis around individual
shows or episodes
is be increasingly
with these algos

(01:11:52):
algorithms
are becoming more important. Right? So it's not
so much
audience is loyal to a series, it's audience
loyal to an episode.
And I think as we have kind of
shifted into this mentality of
of, just being able to click play,
that gives people the opportunity to just swoop

(01:12:12):
in just like what I do with Joe
Rogan. I'll swoop in and I'll look at
the list of names. Do I recognize any
of the names? And I'll I'll maybe watch
one of those episodes. Right. But I don't
like click into it and watch every episode
when it comes out. But you're subscribed to
the series.
You don't have to be.

(01:12:34):
Well, I I don't watch anything
other than my TV. So it makes it
hard to
without having to do a manual search. Well
well, well, for one thing, it's not called
a subscription anyway. I mean, unless you're subscribing
to something that's paid for. Well, if they
ask you to follow well,
YouTubers say follow and subscribe. Or

(01:12:54):
or
or favorite. I think it's actually says subscribe
in YouTube.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. No. No. I'm I was more talking
about,
most of the podcast apps are no longer
using that term subscribe.
So and increasingly,

(01:13:14):
the the YouTube experts that I I occasionally
will tune into are telling me that
the,
the subscriber numbers in YouTube is increasingly becoming
irrelevant.
It's not something that that YouTube cares about.
Well, it's definitely

(01:13:34):
I hear hear people talking about that, you
know, it only
like 40, like 40% are subscribed and the
rest of you are just watching and please,
you know, that's the bag is, you know,
if you have watched, please subscribe. That way,
you know, my subscribe numbers. So it still
means something because they, you know, that's what
they that's how they give plaques out or

(01:13:56):
actually how you can buy your plaque if
you hit a plateau.
Well, it is a signal of,
of of a relationship that's built with a
member of the audience. Right? Yeah. Of some
sort. Right? What that translates into I know
I I follow lots of
or subscribe to lots of shows on on

(01:14:18):
YouTube, and it it it does have a
little bit of mapping to showing up in
my
my wall Yeah. On on occasion, but I
don't think it's really
I don't think YouTube is really utilizing that
information Well, I as much as I know
it helps me in podcasting because I tell
you what, I wouldn't I would completely forget
about shows if I had not

(01:14:39):
followed them
in a podcast app.
No. No. I'm talking about, YouTube. I know.
I'm talking about I know. But, again, it
goes back to podcasting. I think it's critical.
People don't just swoop in to a podcast
episode.
Yeah. I mean, I think the
yeah. But on a podcast app, people don't

(01:15:01):
just swoop in.
It's not the same experience. YouTube, you may
just swoop in, but on a podcast Yeah.
I think with
with YouTube, it's more of a
almost like a bookmark
is what I would call it. Yeah.
I see that also in, like like, the
Rumble platform, which is also a a video
centric platform. I was having a hard

(01:15:22):
Oh,
is is that that that list that you
have of
shows that you're following or series that you're
following is is really like a shortcut area
you can go to to find a creator
that you might wanna check out what they're
doing right now. I had a gal that
was wanted to subscribe to this show because
I mentioned it and she had Spotify open.

(01:15:44):
And I I had I couldn't find
I couldn't get this show to come up
and search on her phone. Yeah. On Spotify.
Yeah.
So
I had to I said, well, we'll just
put on your Apple Podcast tab. And she
goes, what's that?
And I'm like, oh, I said, so she
had an iPhone and I just wrote in

(01:16:05):
podcast and it popped up and I clicked
on it and
I didn't even know that was there.
And I said what's the same thing as
Spotify except now you will not miss an
episode. You're you are subscribed.
And you can watch the video version. Yeah.
Yeah.
In Apple, but you can't in Spotify. So
it just frustrated me because I was, you

(01:16:27):
know, I I searched for the show three
or four different ways
and could not find it on Spotify.
So
all kinds of other stuff came up. So
Are we being blackballed?
Maybe.
Wouldn't be surprised.

(01:16:48):
Yeah. We haven't told told the company line.
Yeah. Is that what you're Yeah. We you
know.
Not surprised.
Yeah. I think in the end, it's
again so she says, oh, just I'll start
subscribing to podcast here. I said, that's what
I would recommend.

(01:17:09):
Yeah.
Yeah. So I just you know,
I don't really think that
the
the definition of what a podcast
is in my mind has changed at all.
I think that,
I think the definition of what a podcast
is in the mind of

(01:17:30):
someone that's only been
utilizing or creating content for the last two
years
may have a perception that things have changed.
I think the general public just
doesn't give a shit.
Well, that's true too. I I think that

(01:17:50):
the audiences
don't don't really care about how it's distributed.
They don't care about No. What we call
it really. Yeah. Just they don't care for
us.
That ship has sailed more than a couple
of years ago.
But it keeps coming up. People keep saying,
you know, we're gonna solve all of our
problems by changing the name. Yeah. Good luck.

(01:18:14):
You know, what this this comes up every
12 less than every 12 months now.
Right. And
you're not gonna and and RSS is not
going away,
You know? When Apple changes it so that
you can't get your podcast via RSS, then
I become worried.
Yeah. You know? Until that date.

(01:18:37):
So
But I will say the Apple Podcast auto
submission has become very popular.
I would imagine. Yeah. They they did a
good job there.
As I see I can now see all
the submissions
that go.
We get a notification.
Yeah. Because we went through a period of
time when

(01:18:57):
people,
just didn't submit their shows to Apple. Yeah.
They
they got in there. They created a podcast,
and they they immediately got it pushed over
to Spotify. Because Spotify made it easy. Does
it one click submit? Right. Exactly. And plus
plus a lot of people, as you recall,
were all spun up about being in Spotify
anyway. Yeah. Oh my god. Younger people. Jesus

(01:19:20):
name. A feeding frenzy on that. Yeah. I
was a feeding frenzy.
And it and Apple was always like, oh
my god. You know, how do I do
that? You know? How do I get it
into Apple? And some people didn't even know
that they could. And and little and little
did we know Spotify was paying people overseas
to submit shows
for them.

(01:19:40):
You know, they had people in call and
work centers over foreign countries doing the submissions
to Apple
manually.
We didn't even know it.
That was their secret sauce. They didn't have
an API integration.
They just they just manpowered it.
Well, that's how I mean, for a long
time,
Spotify submitted shows

(01:20:02):
in the Apple through their
the was it the
anchor,
Apple ID or something? It was yeah. It
was again, it was anchor employees submitting the
shows,
overseas employees. Yeah. So they were, oh, we
I we automatically got into Apple Podcasts. How
come you haven't couldn't do that? Why didn't

(01:20:24):
have 50 people in a a work center
somewhere in Bangladesh that was submitting shows to
Apple?
Yeah.
Well, supposedly,
per the the Apple terms of service, as
you recall,
didn't allow them to do that. Well, they
did. And I know they did. And why
Apple got the impression that Apple didn't shut

(01:20:45):
it down. And why Apple didn't shut it
down is
still a mystery to me, Ted. For
four years, they did that.
Here here we both are
over here filling out spreadsheets
Right.
To send to Spotify Yeah. To their catalog.
Yeah. Yeah. And doing the work for them.

(01:21:07):
Right.
You know, and being their tech support. Man,
we were so stupid.
Well, we were getting screamed at by podcast.
Yeah. That's true. We did. An apple. Get
me an apple. Absolutely screamed at.
Or get me into well, they were saying
get me an apple too, but they they
were saying get me in Spotify. Yeah.

(01:21:27):
I I have a, request. If any of
you have a Elgato Facecam Pro
Are you still struggling with that? It's doesn't
work. So I bought another camera.
Oh, wow. I bought a Logitech.
No one could answer the question. We never
could get it. I never could get it
to work. I'll just say don't if you
have a MacBook Pro,

(01:21:49):
do not buy an Elgato Facecam Pro.
Was don't worry. You couldn't get a cable
that would adapt to it? I had the
cables. It just said this is not USB
three.
It doesn't recognize it. Doesn't on the Mac,
it would it the Mac would would not
recognize
I've got everything else in the brother hooked

(01:22:10):
up here. I've got Stream Deck. I got
the switcher. I've got my two cameras. And
with everything disconnected, that camera would not work
with for provided cables to go to a
Mac.
And
so
yeah. So I got another new webcam
that I bought.
What'd you get?

(01:22:33):
What was readily available here? The Logitech BRIO
500.
It's a good camera. Good camera.
And it works.
And Was it a four k? Is it
four k capable?
No. It's only $10.80.
10 80? Yeah. And
I just I needed to
work with my teleprompter

(01:22:55):
because that's why I primarily needed it for.
I'm just using the face cam
camera here today
on on the Mac. I'm not using but
in order to look into my teleprompter, which
is up there, I can't
it just looks just looks weird. So
Yeah.

(01:23:18):
Is what it is.
It is. It is. So
yeah. So what's your definition now of podcast
as it contrasts with what what you're hearing,
what other people are thinking?
You know, I don't wanna be the dude
that says it has to have an RSS
feed, but I sure wish it would. I
guess I'll just put it that way.

(01:23:40):
My goal is to make sure that every
podcast video or audio has an RSS feed
and can be distributed via RSS. That's my
goal.
It's not gonna happen.
We made some headway with Vidapod
and being able to give YouTubers
ability to quickly get automatically They have a

(01:24:02):
a podcast.
But,
I don't know. I guess I don't wanna
get stuck into defining into this moment. What
do you wanna do? What's your thought?
I don't know. I would
I guess
my my position on it's been consistent over
many years is that
video has always been part of the podcast

(01:24:24):
space. Yep. I mean I mean, if you
if you think back, Todd, back in the
world Look at this show?
It it it it's Zoom. Right? Yeah.
Zoom had big screens on their portable media
players. Yep.
And I built a video podcast experience in
inside
of Windows Media Center,

(01:24:45):
you know, and I've got the
Zoom to prove it. You know, it's it's
a small
small device with a big screen. Yep.
And I would play all sorts of a
video pod
If you think about it, all the major
media companies supported video podcasting back in the
early days. Yeah.
Because there was no YouTube.

(01:25:06):
Yeah. That that was for a few years
prior to the existence of YouTube. And then
when YouTube
launched, they,
They moved.
Well, some of them did. And some of
them quit. Or they
they just yeah. They just moved completely over
there.
But others continued like,
like Leo LaPorte.

(01:25:29):
Continue. I mean, like on my
Zoom here Oh, it it booted up. Oh,
yeah. It still works.
And I I can I can throttle back
and forth between audio and video? So those
are all the video podcasts.
And then I just tap
it little icon, and that's all the audio
shows.

(01:25:50):
Does it actually still work work? Yeah. Mhmm.
I can play
I'll play,
an Apple keynote
from
from, 2016.
Oh, I'm talking about current content.
Oh, yeah. I don't keep the content Oh,
okay. Updated in this thing. So it's playing
video just fine.

(01:26:11):
Yeah. That's,
Tim Cook Yeah. On stage there
back in 2016.
Via RSS.
Via RSS. That's when they
they put out the Apple keynote
every year into an RSS feed.
Yeah. I used to I used to feature

(01:26:31):
it. Give me light work for for for
Microsoft.
And then oh, and here's your podcast on
on on the Zoom, Todd. Oh, my goodness.
This one was talking about the TriCaster
back in 2016
as well. I guess that was the last
time I updated it.
Oh,
yeah. Wow. That that's
when I still had hair.

(01:26:52):
I was in Hawaii
and
oh, yeah.
Look at that. Look at those fantastic graphics
there. Oh my god.
Yeah. Yeah. That was that was definitely
CES something. That
that was something else back then. Yeah.
And, Just look at it.

(01:27:12):
Yeah. This is
the back of this
has a tombstone on
it. Oh, does it?
You had that laser down there?
Well, actually, this was the the last run
of,
of the Zoom agency. Oh, really? And they
put the
the employees,
right, that were still working Yeah. On Zoom

(01:27:34):
back in
I think they gave this to me in
2011.
That's funny. I think.
And it says, RIP Zune. Rip Zune. Thousand
'6,
to 2011.
I don't know if I still own the
the domain.
Let me look.
I used to own zoompodcast.com.

(01:27:56):
And here's an old
new media show too. No. I I don't
I don't have it no more. I I
let it expire.
But I had zoompodcast.com
for years. Looks like
Yeah.
Yep. That's Dan Franks was on the show
back then. Oh, that's funny.
Yeah. That goes that goes back a ways.
I still have some of those shirts.

(01:28:19):
Yeah.
So yeah. Yeah. Just just gives you a
little bit of glimpse of how long we've
been doing this stuff. Just like my CNN
podcast I had, CNN
podcast, Cochrane News Network.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At Cochrane News Network.
CNN podcast. Let's see if they even have
that still. Do they have that redirecting?

(01:28:42):
I mean, look. See, they they beat me
up, and now they don't even use
it. So CNN, podiast dot com doesn't even
go anywhere.
Oh, it doesn't? No. They probably don't even
remember they own it,
Or or they or they let it expire.
That would be the even more funny thing.
Yeah.

(01:29:02):
Let's see if they let it expire after
they
threaten me with life and limb.
That's funny. I can broker to buy it.
Oh, you can? Yeah. Well, it's still it's
still registered.
So you can see a bunch of podcast
tiles there. Yeah.

(01:29:23):
So, you know, for again,
this audience,
if nothing else, knows that, podcasts are available
via video. Question is, are you gonna start
doing it? And if you're not gonna start
doing it, why not?
Why haven't
you? That's the question I want answered. Those
of you doing video, why would you not

(01:29:44):
be want to be found everywhere and anywhere,
including, you know, off
the bit the belly of the beast. Why
would you not want to have your
video podcast to be available everywhere
through Open RSS? I guess maybe that's the
question I'm gonna start asking.
Why not have that as a backup plan?

(01:30:06):
So when you get deplatformed
or whatever may happen.
Yeah. That's why I
I started talking about this concept of trying
to support HLS streaming.
Well, that that turned into a can of
worms.
It it it is expensive. I I I
I just don't think we could afford to
do it.

(01:30:26):
It's just the we we I looked at
the cost, and it's it's incredibly high.
Yeah. I talked to
the Rocky from
SoundStack and she said it's not that expensive
to do.
Okay. If you're doing audio.
No. No. No.
They don't do video. They don't do video.

(01:30:47):
No. No. The
the infrastructure
of being able to do it isn't that
expensive. But but it well, if you do
it on AWS,
it is expensive.
Yeah. We we priced it. Let me let
me bring it up. We're almost out of
time here. Well, that's
that's why you have to build it on
your own infrastructure and use,

(01:31:08):
CDM. Well, then how do you scale that?
You know, that then you run into scaling
issues.
Let's see here. Let me find the discussion.
Yeah. Here it is.
Yeah.
So
he
anyway, we we linked to it and I
was just like no we're we're not doing
this because it's just

(01:31:30):
it's it it would be thousands and thousands.
This show alone to do on HLS was
more than a hundred dollars a month.
Just this show
to stream on HLS through a third party
provider.
In in video? Yeah. Yeah. It was more
than a hundred a month.
So that's why I quit doing it.

(01:31:53):
So
alright. So it's now doing it via audio
only. Is that Well, I'm just doing shout
cast.
Oh, you're doing shell cast? Yeah. That's what's
supported in the podcasting apps, and it costs
that costs
nearly nothing.
Yeah.
I think that $20.20 bucks a month or
something.
Shellcast is how I started

(01:32:14):
streaming my Still alive and well.
Yep. Still alive and well.
It was owned by America Online for many
years.
And then Yahoo
owned it. And I I think was it
I think it's I think it's open or
I think it's open source now.

(01:32:35):
Yeah. I think you can yes. Spit spinning
up Shellcast servers are easy
and cheap. Very, very cheap because it's it's
audio bandwidth. There's no
there's hardly no bandwidth to it.
You know? And and it was a little
expensive for you in those early days because
it was bandwidth was high, but now bandwidth
is is nothing. I think the shout cast

(01:32:55):
stream I have right now supports
5,000
people on it.
There's never gonna be 5,000 now. There might
be 20,
but and I and I do it on
demand service. So when this goes when the
show gets done, I stop it, and then
there's a there's programming that's in a loop.
Do Yeah. I would do it just,

(01:33:17):
I had my own
encoder
on my own
computer. Yeah. When I first started doing all
that that's why I'm here too. I had
a desktop
under an office
in,
you know, under an office desk in an
office in
Tacoma, Washington. And that's where it ran. Right?
That that's where
yeah. That's where it streamed it. I I

(01:33:38):
initiated the stream from my home Yeah.
To that box, and it would,
would stream out of my Oh, so they
were pulling it from that box or from
that laptop or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It was
getting sent out through that laptop.
I was playing the content through the encoder
into that. Okay. And then that was putting
it out there off of a URL. That's

(01:34:01):
funny. So it could be played out there.
Yeah. That's how I got started in streaming,
and then I got
Then you put some computers in a rack.
Yeah. I got got some servers and got,
Windows Media servers. I got some free software
from from Microsoft.
The operating system, you know, I think it
was windows two,
windows server 2,000, I think is what it

(01:34:23):
was.
And,
ran
the, the windows media server service on that.
And so I was able to to stream
stream and then also got the real networks.
Right.
Streaming servers as well. And I just ran
those on Windows machines as well. You just
paid for your bandwidth then from usage? Yeah.

(01:34:45):
I had to get server cost.
Yeah. I had, like, four
rack servers
in one colocation facility. One was serving a
website, and
and then two of the other ones,
were doing streams.
We're doing,
Windows streams and then real network streams.

(01:35:05):
And then another one was kinda like a
like a backup. Well, I've got a little
laptop sitting over here, Rob, that's just
running a single app. And
a matter of fact, I've I've got a
Mac mini here now, so I'm gonna just
put it on that here soon. I need
to find a different
stream. As you recall, you know, that's the
only way you could do it back then

(01:35:26):
because there weren't any service providers that could
do any of this stuff.
None.
So if you wanted to get started in
the time frame we got started in, it
was
technically a little more challenging than it is
now. No. You had to geek out. That's
for sure.
Okay. We're at the end here. Todd@blueberry.com
or geeknews@gmail.com.

(01:35:47):
I'm
at geek news on x. Oh, I had
someone say they're not registering for the podcast
awards because they still
communicate through x.
Really? Yeah.
I'm not registering because you still are on
x.
Like,
okay.

(01:36:08):
Anyway, at geek news on x at geeknews@geeknews.chat
on
Mastodon.
So
Yeah. So, Todd, I guess it's it's it's
not
correct now to ever wear a red hat,
I guess,
is what I keep hearing.
Well, you know, you can't wear a Tesla

(01:36:29):
hat either. Right? So
Are there Tesla hats? Yeah. I've never worn
a Tesla hat. Yeah. You you you might
get you might get you might get keyed.
Well, you know, they're upgrading that century mode,
capability in those cars
where where
they're gonna initiate playing loud music if per

(01:36:51):
a person gets too close to the vehicle.
That's interesting.
Yep. And so it's activated automatically
in my car now when I park. Yeah.
You should, should be an announcement. You are
being recorded. It just amazes it just amazes
me that people haven't realized they're being recorded,
and they're still doing this.

(01:37:12):
The newer Tesla's I I think have nine
cameras on them.
So, you know, you're you're not gonna get
away with it. My car my car has
aftermarket cameras in it front and back that
record.
Yeah. Right. So
it's just people are It's motion activated. Soon
as someone gets close, it starts recording.

(01:37:33):
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, this will actually
send me a message.
It has the ability.
There's external speakers on that car. Wow. So
it'll it'll play loud music or I mean,
the car is capable of farting.
Well, I I of farting. Yeah. You you
should have you are being monitored.

(01:37:54):
Well, my
my external ring cameras that I have on
my house, I've got four of them on
my house.
And each one of them has a setting
in the app that you can set to,
and and the the cameras will actually,
voice and audio warning Yeah. To the person
you're being recorded. I have I have Wyze

(01:38:15):
cameras. And,
so when I leave here, the only thing
it's running is the router and
the refrigerator and two cameras.
And they point towards the entrances and same
thing.
And then actually,
they freaked out. They came in to clean
the air conditioning unit or something and didn't
let me know in advance because I could

(01:38:36):
have turned the warning off. It says you're
being recorded.
You're being recorded.
And I guess that went on for, like,
thirty five minutes and they were pretty unnerved
about you're being recorded.
You're being recorded.
Right.
It's
just annoying. And matter of fact, my voice
is ding ding ding ding. I wake up.
I'm like, what the hell's going on? I
turned, you know, I turned the camera on.

(01:38:58):
I turned the speaker on. I said, I'm
sorry. I had it, you know, that I
have to send a warning. A little overkill.
I wouldn't be surprised if he if Elon,
you know, or or the software developers, whoever
comes up with this upgrade to the century
mode will will actually cause the horn to
go off too and the lights to flash.
Wow. That would be good.

(01:39:19):
Yep.
A lot of security shit out of people.
A lot of security systems on people's vehicles
do that.
Yeah. Yeah. There's lots of If you bump
them or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Like, they will
and they'll they'll give a verbal warning as
you're getting too close.
Yeah. You know? Well In a very loud

(01:39:39):
speaker.
Yeah. I've got a big
USB stick in my glove box.
Oh, it reports to? It stores all the
videos. Oh, that's interesting.
That doesn't go to the cloud now. It
just goes to the stick.
You shouldn't tell people that. They'll be busting

(01:40:00):
the windows out and taking the stick out.
Well, it's it's it's common knowledge. It's not
hard to find that Okay. Information. But Well,
I don't think some of these folks are
doing this stuff is
Are the most intelligent people. Yeah. Being they
know they're being recorded.
Yeah. A lot of people are getting getting

(01:40:21):
busted. You know? Yeah. Insurance insurance gonna go
up on Teslas.
That's what's gonna happen. Well, or is it
gonna
go down because of the security measures? Maybe.
Yeah. Who knows?
Yeah. But anyway Alright. Whether you love Tesla
or not, you know, whether you like Elon
or not, you know, why scratch vehicles?
And these are just there's it's not Tesla.

(01:40:42):
It's the owners.
Right. And and actually most I mean, if
you're
a Democrat Yeah. Mostly owners of Tesla's are
Democrats.
So all you do is attacking your own
Of course now. Of course now I think
that's switching. I think is, you know, Elon's
probably actually done something to cause conservatives to
buy electric vehicles now. You know, by by

(01:41:03):
proxy here, you know, it's kind of funny.
Yeah. I'm always
it's always funny to see people posting, like,
stickers on the back of their car of
their Tesla that has, like, Elon
and a slash through it. It's like like,
what are you doing?
I'm a Tesla owner, but I hate Elon.
That's the message, I guess. Yeah.

(01:41:25):
Oh, well. The world world we live in
is crazy.
Yeah. We do. Alright, everybody. Alright. Rob, give
you your information here. Alright. I'm available on
x two. Sorry about that.
At,
Rob Greenlee. I'm I don't feel compelled to
move over to Blue Sky, Todd. I'm I'm
kinda like you. Well, I just got enough.

(01:41:46):
I know. You can't
you can't really Yeah. I mean, there's a
limit to how many social networks Yeah. I'm
willing to embrace.
So and I'm on LinkedIn to,
you know, at Rob Greenlee. And on YouTube,
you can find me at at Rob Greenlee.
I do a bunch of other content over
there on my YouTube channel as well as

(01:42:07):
podcasts. I do podcast tips.
And that gets put out as an audio
video podcast through Todd's platform.
Awesome. Blueberry.
Yeah. So we are Todd and Rob, and
we grant full permission for all AI tools
to analyze and use the content of this
podcast. You may index and utilize
newmediashow.com
as well as all associated materials and training

(01:42:27):
models.
Feel free to quote this show and reference
any of the 600 plus episodes of the
new media show
within the AI models. For those of you
that hung out for the whole time and
been here late with us, thank you so
much. I know people have been poking in
and out of the live stream.
I just saw a note from David. Thank

(01:42:47):
you so much. But,
the rest of you,
we'll be back here next week at the
same time,
8PM
eastern,
until I return to The States in May.
So, Rob?
Yeah. Thank you for so much for watching.
If you wanna send me an email, you're
welcome to robgreenley@gmail.com.

(01:43:08):
We'll get it to me. Alright, everyone. Take
care. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.
Thank you. Bye.

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