YouTube isn’t Podcasting King

In this episode of “The New Media Show,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss the evolving landscape of podcasting, with a focus on the interplay between audio and video content, especially addressing the question of whether YouTube is dominating the podcasting space. The episode opens with Todd welcoming Rob back from a trip to … Continue reading YouTube isn’t Podcasting King →

The post YouTube isn’t Podcasting King appeared first on New Media Show.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the new media
show. And, yes, Rob is here.
Yeah. I was just on a on a
ten day trip back to Seattle to spend
time with my dad. I and and I
didn't. I I think you told me, but
I think I just forgot. So anyway,
yeah, a couple of people applied for your
job last week. So I would imagine probably

(00:23):
so. Yeah.
Hence why those of you I haven't replied
via email.
Well,
yeah, Todd. Sometimes it's good to kinda,
you know, shake things up a little bit
and try to get people's attention.
Yeah. Well, I I I guess. You know?
So,
you know, what's funny is I had put
together some some talking points today and so

(00:44):
did you, so we kinda get a mismatch
of stuff in two different docs. But,
they're
all good topics. So I guess it depends
on how long of an episode we wanna
make. Well, we're we're we're gonna try to
keep a couple of suggestion that had come
in via the boost was
keep it to sixty minutes. Don't go ninety.
So That's what I was thinking too, actually.

(01:05):
If you see in my outline, it says
sixty minutes on it. Yeah. We'll we'll try.
We'll see. There is a couple of good
things, though, that,
popped today. And it's kinda funny because
I had run into a bunch of people
at the podcast show and said, we gotta
start changing narrative.
You know, we gotta we gotta get off
this, you know,
you know, we we need to recapture the

(01:27):
narrative that audio is still good. And it's
so funny because,
you know, this article by Paul,
from,
Paul Risendale.
And his, YouTube isn't dominating podcasting. It's probably
what I would consider probably one of the
more
balanced,
you know, balanced pieces that I've seen in

(01:49):
a while.
And Paul's from Signal Hill Yeah.
Research.
And, yeah, I thought it was an interesting
article too.
But, Todd, I think we both kinda
knew in the back of our minds that
that was probably true,
that and increasingly, we're seeing
evidence that audio podcasting is still very strong.

(02:11):
Well, there's it's not evidence. We know it's
strong. That's the key. Well, I Yeah.
That's only in comparison to,
I guess, what
the focus that's been so heavily Right. On
the video side.
And so I think that,
you know, I think that if you look
at Apple Podcasts, and we can talk a
little bit about what Apple Podcasts,

(02:34):
announced at the WWDC
also,
that has an impact on podcasting, but they
still haven't done what we both hoped that
they would have. But
but we'll see if that's that's still coming.
But this whole thing around,
you know, the importance of audio is certainly
you know, I I have this perception that

(02:54):
I've been, like, all this pro video pro
video stuff, but
if you really listen to what I've said
over the last
few months and really,
and I'm I'm trying to emphasize this again
because I think that it's been confused.
My
my position on this
is that

(03:15):
video is kinda like getting more attention now.
Right? But nonetheless,
the history of podcasting, and if you just
look at the contrast between,
consumption of podcasts
on iOS
versus
Android too. I think it gives you a
kind of a better picture of what's happening
here to some degree. But, audio is still,

(03:39):
growing and it's still a significant
contributor to the success
of podcasting. And I think
video has just gotten more attention because it's
kinda like like you said, Todd, it's a
little bit of a you know, it's the
shiny thing Mhmm.
That's that's kind of in the space right
now.

(03:59):
And I think, maybe this conversation
this is what I kinda teased on my
my YouTube channel is kinda navigating
podcasting's
confusing future because I think it is a
confusing landscape, especially for new creators entering the
space. Oh. They're seeing all of the
this crazy discussion around

(04:20):
how video is taking over, but yet
it's it's difficult to do video. But I
think it's even more complex than just that
singular issue around
how people are getting attention now,
personal branding,
and all these elements.
And the other truth is is that, big
shows are growing faster than small shows are.

(04:42):
And I think that's that's something that we
have to focus on too of how do
we help
small
startup
audio podcasts
grow in this
new landscape. The again, the conversations that I
am having,
as I said before,
they feel disenfranchised.
They feel left out. They are being left

(05:03):
behind.
They feel that and, you know,
I talked with, Chris Formosos.
I apologize,
Chris. I always destroy
your last name,
for podcast.
And,
he thinks that 85 of the podcast market
doesn't care about
you know, I I, you know, I've always

(05:24):
said 70%. He said he's more like 85.
Of course, he works in the indie, so
his he's more slanted on indie
than commercial, I think.
And, you know, he again, he he kinda
had a tendency to agree with me that,
you know, we're we're disenfranchising
a lot of potential. And I have a
suspicion

(05:46):
that
maybe
part of this discussion is is that
those that are monetizing
and those businesses,
maybe they're starting to see a decline of
new talent and new shows coming in, and
maybe they're worried just a little bit. And
maybe this is where they go, oh, uh-oh.

(06:07):
The Golden Goose specifically are you talking about?
Are you talking about the podcast hosting companies?
No. I'm talking about creators.
Creator? Oh, I thought you were talking about
platforms. No. Well, I'm what I'm talking about
is,
basically,
that there's this
creator economy
that is definitely has two camps.
You know? And the camp that's in the

(06:28):
in the, you know, back in the deep
grass,
it's not being paid attention to too much,
are feeling disenfranchised.
They don't wanna do video, or they're concerned
they have to do video. Someone that's getting
in the space thinks they wanna do video.
So, anyway, it's a conversation we've already had.
But, again,
it goes back
to where I You're talking about audio graders.

(06:49):
Is that what you're talking about? Well, in
in essentially, audio it's brand new creators that
wanna do a podcast, but Right. They're telling
me, Todd, I don't wanna do video. Not
everyone says that. You know, there's I would
say that that's that's,
you know, I think it's a spectrum too.
Yeah. It is. It is.
How how do you
get into video if you're an audio podcaster?

(07:10):
I think it's the conversation that we need
to have. Well, the the
Yeah. It's like what what's the easy way
to start doing some video, but not have
it take over your life? No. What the
what the conversation
is,
No. What the what the conversation is is
you need to start with audio and then
figure out if you wanna do video.
Well, yeah.

(07:30):
But I do think that,
there are trends in the market that would
point you to this perspective that
doing some
video is probably a smart way to build
your your brand awareness for yourself. No doubt.
As well as as,
as grow your potentially grow some interest in

(07:50):
your audio podcast. No doubt. But they don't
wanna do it. They don't want to do
video.
There's a percentage Because they're they're over,
thinking it because of what they see with
the big creators. I'm sure it all adds
I'm sure it all adds to it. All
you know, these fancy sets, all these fancy
lights. All of it. Fancy cameras,

(08:12):
all all that stuff are not really necessary.
But it's but it's the perception and it
is the overwhelming
thing that they're facing. And they say, I
don't have a face. I I don't wanna
be on video. I you know, it's it
runs all the things we've heard for years.
Yeah. But it's it's more amplified now. And
but the problem is,
again,

(08:33):
this is what I'm hearing as a podcast
host.
You can hear it in their voice.
I wanna do podcast.
You know? But every time I have to
video, I don't know video. And I and
I go back to the same conversation we've
had a 100 times. You can start with
audio,
build your audience, find your voice, and build

(08:55):
into this. I think that
there's two challenges here.
Those are existing content creators. You know, they're
adding elements and doing stuff in video. They're
gonna do that. So if they wanna build
their show. Yeah. And we you know, we're
gonna see that. But the true challenge, the
true thing that is at risk for the
entire space

(09:17):
is new creators.
And if the new creators are not coming
in
and they're not have the opportunity
to build a big show
or build a show that's growing,
and there's plenty of opportunity too. Huge opportunity
too.
So
Well, I think the really, really big question,

(09:39):
Todd, of all this is,
are you really gonna be able to grow
your podcast
audience
just doing audio only. I think so. I
think it's if you if you have great
content. That there's a lot of evidence of
that, Todd. So We see shows growing all
the time. We we have a whole
stack of shows that are growing that are
audio only.

(10:02):
Okay.
Then why is why aren't there
new creators? I mean, because usually the new
creators follow success. Right?
So is there something about
audio now
that is
not working? Right? I know. Right. Based on
the the the expectations of the audience. And

(10:23):
I guess my
my increasing thought is is that we need
to do as an industry, we need to
do a better job of helping those audio
creators
determine what the best path forward is
to actually grow their show, not just concept.
It may be, Todd, and I'm just showing

(10:43):
the the baby out there. Yeah. And and
hopefully, it doesn't go go with the bathwater,
but but it's it's to, you know, think
about ways that we can help those audio
creators be successful. And what are the
the pathways for helping them accomplish that? And
if it includes some,

(11:03):
like, maybe just doing short form video,
vertical video that's put out there as a
personal brand brand development. I'm starting to talk
more and more about how important it is
to build
personal brand of the host
even over
building the brand of the podcast
as the key to growing now. And that

(11:24):
may include building your reputation
in the area or the genre that you're
doing your podcast about. And yeah. Great content
is going to succeed. Well,
that's a given now. It's almost like that's
that's table stakes, but it's also very, very,
very subjective
to say it's gotta be good content. Well,

(11:45):
what is
what does it look like to make good
content? It's subjective.
It is. And I think that that is
what one of those things that if we
keep telling new creators, well, it's gotta be
great content,
then they're gonna be confused because
they don't know what great content looks like.
I think What's the expectation in the market?

(12:05):
I think my expectation as a podcaster is
feedback,
engagement
of the community. Time, doesn't it? Sure. You
know, it takes time to get feedback. A
lot of creators, when when they get started,
they don't get any feedback. Oh, that's true.
And And and so they get lost in
this quagmire
of speak feeling like you're speaking alone

(12:27):
into the microphone and nobody's listening. And so
a a period of time goes by where
where maybe there's a chance the show isn't
growing, But what can they do to be
able to,
find that audience that would be interested in
their show? I think that's the challenge. Every
every creator today, and it hasn't

(12:50):
changed from the beginning of time Mhmm. Yeah.
Has to do a whole bunch of stuff.
And usually, they're wearing one hat. Yeah. They
have to do all the things that,
you know, you have to be out there
in social. You have to be, you know,
promoting your episodes. You have to be clipping.
None of this has changed. None of
it. None of this none of those fundamentals,

(13:10):
participating in community,
going where your listeners are, all that stuff
still applies.
Here's the problem.
Everyone wants a damn easy button.
Yeah. Right. Of course. And there's no easy
button.
You know, you you you gotta work.
And, you know, we had a call yesterday.
We have office hours every Tuesday and, you

(13:30):
know,
had a great conversation with podcasters, and we're
talking about stats specifically.
I was, you know, spend an hour on
stats. And, you know, again and again and
again, and I was blown away. Thank you
for what you're doing. We're having great success
with our show. We're reaching people. And, you
know, I'm hearing from these people that, you
know, the other calls I'm having during the
week are, you know, I wanna grow my

(13:51):
show.
Help me grow my show. And then all
these other folks are on the call yesterday,
like, oh, we're doing good. We're growing. Dada
dada. We're talking with sponsors. But, you know
and these were folks that have been pod
but the average age
of all those podcasts that were I think
there was 14 on the call, two years
plus. Actually, three years plus.

(14:12):
So there wasn't anyone in the call that
was in that zero to three years because
I was trying to get a feel
where everyone was at. So I was enthused.
I was like, oh my god. We got
all the folks on this call as three
plus year podcasters,
and they're loving what they're doing.
But I, you know, I I think social
media and branding is

(14:32):
I've talked about it. You and I've talked
about it. It's critical. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
It just may be more important now than
ever.
And I I don't know that there's a
clear
or I don't know that there's been clear,
I guess, communication to new creators around,
you know, what the best pathway is on

(14:53):
how to do all this stuff. But, you
know, it's gonna be it's gonna be different
for everybody, and it may not work for
everybody. I That's the reality of it. You
know, I've I've got a doc somewhere
that I have, like
it's like a I think it's I used
to call it, like, a 13 step plan
or something like that. And I have not.
I used to speak on
it. Matter of fact, I have to dig

(15:14):
those out. It was all about
these are the things you have to do.
And,
you know, the video component
is probably the now.
You know, the or 1415,
item.
But, you know,
you as a
as a as a solo,

(15:34):
as a indie with no staff,
you know, how have I been able to
multiply my time? I've finally got someone that
helps me with preproduction.
They're a fan of the show.
I'm able luckily to be able to pay
him to do that, but
he started this volunteer
helping the show. And and and so I
think
what we really need to do is make

(15:56):
sure people are empowering their audiences. Say, hey.
I you know, I you let's grow this
together. Help me.
And I think, you know, they can help
with these extra components of stuff. And and
the tools are pretty fantastic right now in
doing clipping and and all that stuff. So
I you know, we've we've even at Blueberry
tried to make it easier

(16:16):
to do clipping
so that you can essentially get in and
have clips made in ten, fifteen minutes.
But
people are time constrained right now. Everyone's busy.
Yeah. Super, super busy. So
and
that maybe I'm trying to learn
from larger successful shows on the strategies that

(16:37):
they're taking to fund growth, and it's and
it's hard to translate that into
an individual
single podcaster that's just launching an audio podcast.
It's difficult. Because those folks have teams.
Well, that's exactly kinda my point, John, is
that it is it's increasingly taking a team

(16:58):
to build a podcast now. Well I'm not
sure that the industry is really talking about
the professionalization
of this medium
in a way that is,
you know, accessible to
new creators like it was in the past.
But but, again, those people that have teams
are already generally
have been successful in Making revenue. Right. Content

(17:22):
already. So it's not
again, it's there's an apples there's not an
apples and apples situation here. They're on a
they're they started at a different level.
They started like an Oprah,
you know. Well You know? Yeah. At that
level, they were already a semi celebrity semi
in the

(17:48):
individual podcaster that does not have a team,
which again makes up probably 85%
of the podcasting space today.
Mhmm.
They just gotta do what they gotta do.
They gotta they gotta they gotta
be able to work.
I I Rob, you know, I just remember
years and years and and years ago, people

(18:09):
used to ask me, how do you have
time?
How do you have time? I didn't sleep.
So but it wasn't all about promoting the
show. It was running a business,
working,
and doing a podcast
and kids. Right.
You know, so
Now now it's like the number one question
that I get asked is, you know, can

(18:30):
I make money from the episode? No.
Yeah. 10¢.
See, that's part of what the conversation is
now. Right?
And it's and because
what's happened is that people
have a need for that. And that's Well
And the whole thing of creating a side
hustle and creating multiple streams of income, all

(18:51):
this kind of stuff has has come into
this medium and has a has built expectations.
Well So if the expectations
are not fulfilled,
then people will get dislocated. Someone's lying to
them.
Well,
no. It's based on the individual's needs. Well,
okay. So if if you okay.

(19:13):
This is a tough conversation. Alright. Right. The
market has shifted towards
people building side hustles, and that's being heavily
promoted on
all these social platforms. Guess what side hustles
require?
Incredible heart. Who's making money on side hustle
advice?
The people that are giving a side hustle
advice. Right. Right. Well, that's certainly true, Todd.

(19:34):
So You know, so
I I think I think we have to
have this reality check.
Well, that cuts both ways on this, Todd.
The reality check on what's possible versus the
reality check on what the hype is is
Well, that's they're completely disconnected. Spectrum. Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know

(19:57):
Yeah. They, you know, they don't realize you
know, I I go back to they don't
realize that
you know, here's here's the thing. You and
I have been in this a long time.
We didn't have Facebook, Twitter, or x. We
didn't have Instagram. We didn't have any of
this stuff in the beginning. Talk and Nothing.
Even newer platforms that are coming out now

(20:19):
that are that are offering a complete different
content
mashed with e commerce.
We had nothing Yeah. In the beginning.
And can you imagine
taking all this stuff away from those folks
now and say, now you need to you
need to build a show?
And and
and they they they wouldn't even start.

(20:41):
Yeah.
It is now possible to launch a show.
I mean, I
I do it,
I try and do that with everybody I
work with, but it's
to launch with programmatic. Right? Yeah. So so
that that matches the expectation. Yeah. Until they
until they see their 10¢ they earn. Until
they see the the actual check that comes.

(21:02):
But Or not even a check until they
get the $50.
But they think
Yeah. They think they've been enabled for monetization
That's where in the past, the conversation was,
well, you gotta start a show.
You gotta do, you know, 50 episodes before
you can even think about start starting to
make money was the conversation. You see you
see, Libsyn just made it so that you

(21:24):
can have zero downloads like Blueberry and Spreaker.
We've all been allowing our podcasters to do
programmatic
from the beginning, but, you know, we set
expectations. But it is kinda funny that they
included a calculator.
That's all they did. They did. Here's your
expected downloads will
give you Here's your much income. Here's your
expected revenue, you know. It's kind of like

(21:45):
the you you you have a calculator so
you can have the,
the ugly baby discussion. Right? Right. And,
so, obviously, they're feeling the pressure to allow
shows to monetize
in in the very beginning.
But, you know, this this focus on monetization,
that's
but, actually, I'm not hearing

(22:05):
that conversation.
I mean, I mean, really, like, 5% of
my discussions I have with podcasters.
That isn't the conversation I'm having.
You know, it continues to be growth. And
then for new podcasters, it's a whole different
it's very very little about
monetization. So I think there's definitely these two

(22:26):
tiers,
and I think YouTubers are thinking, oh, I
gotta I gotta make money in the beginning.
Well, you do have to even on YouTube,
you have to put in some investment in,
producing episodes so you get qualified for monetization.
It's So it's not like starting out right
at the beginning. Right? So, you know, if
they if they want to this is maybe

(22:47):
that's the analogy you should we should be
giving to podcasters.
Oh, I wanna make money on episode one.
Well, you make money on YouTube and and
episode one. No.
You have to have four makes money on
episode one. Yeah. You have to make you
have to make four thousand hours of whatever
it is, whatever the qualifying is that you
have to have a thousand
There's actually 2,000 now. Oh, they lowered it.

(23:08):
Yeah. About two. I still
haven't qualified.
Yeah. It's a thousand
I think
it's I think it's,
a thousand subscribers
and two thousand hours of watch time. So,
again,
yeah. So
if they can't qualify on YouTube,

(23:28):
then
so it's it's just a you know? So
I think we have to It's the same
thing with Spotify. So then we need to
really tell these podcasters
and whatever however you wanna call them, audio,
video, or whatever.
You you gotta build an audience.
You get you know, you you wanna make
this a side hustle? And side hustles don't

(23:49):
come with hustle.
And you That's where this conversation loops back
to what I was saying earlier, Todd. What
are
given what's happening with social media Yeah. Given
what we're seeing, the perception of podcasting, and
this was in my outline too, was
was is increasingly being seen as part of
social media.

(24:10):
Mhmm. So there's like this Yeah. It's part
of the whole package.
Munging together
between what we see in social media
around audio and video, primarily video on that
side. So so that may be contributing to
this conversation
about how video is entering podcasting is we're
we're now looking at the media landscape,

(24:33):
as being influential
from a holistic perspective now,
and that is driving this narrative. Because
I think the researchers look at YouTube and
they think of it as a as a
derivative of of the social media landscape.
Right? So now it's being lumped in with
podcasting,
and we keep increasingly talking about video, which

(24:56):
has strong linkages to social media. So that's
that's where this conversation is becoming a little
bit confused
is is that we may be talking about
two different things here, two different mediums of
sorts,
but we're but they're mushing together right now
in in people's perceptions from the audience side
primarily.

(25:16):
And it's slowly
coming along from the creator side,
that that those YouTubers are thinking about making
an audio podcast, which taps into your tool
Yep.
Increasingly.
So, you know, this perception is merging together.
Yeah. I think that That's what's causing this.
I think,
again, I just you know, I've I've tried

(25:37):
to let YouTube feed me some stuff here
in the last couple of weeks. I've I
haven't seen any long format
podcast. I've seen three minute shorts.
And oh, okay. That was interesting.
That's a clue right there. I've been I've
been increasingly playing with shorts too,
and I think
I see stronger numbers in shorts, but the

(25:59):
question gets back to is how does that
convert
into audience? I don't think it for me,
it doesn't.
Well, I mean, it's hard to quantify that,
Todd, because there isn't any
I think that the
the shorts platforms need to give the ability
better to have people

(26:19):
click to to another longer
version of that. That is not that is
that's missing with the Alago.
Well, it is. And it's and it's missing
because a lot of these platforms want people
to to only be on their platform. Of
course. They don't really make it easy to
link off to another platform like X penalizes

(26:41):
it if you put a link to something
in the original post.
So what they're incentivizing is people uploading directly
to their website. Of course.
Right? And
that breaks
the whole model around.
Lock you in.
Podcasting. It breaks it. Yep.
Lock you in.
And that that's another aspect of this that

(27:04):
needs to be thought about too. You know,
there was talk at one point that x
was gonna support RSS feeds, but
that has never materialized. Of course, it would
never will materialize. They will they will not
do it. I guarantee you that if they
do it, I'd be shocked
because RSS is open, and
open means,

(27:25):
you know, again, if you consume I guess
if they consume it on x, why would
they care?
If they wanna That's the bigger takeaway here,
Tom, is that like you've been saying all
these years, you you you don't really care
where you consume,
but but you do care where it comes
from. Right.
And I think that's that's the other part
of this, and that's what Spotify is trying

(27:46):
to break too is
is the RSS based delivery. So if we
could convince
x to ingest RSS feeds, then I think
that would be a win win,
in the bigger picture. But the bigger question
is who would actually host the media file?
Would it be x? Probably.
Yeah. Potentially.

(28:07):
I mean, just like what happens with YouTube
today. Yeah.
Again, I think in the end, the narrative,
you know, the article Paul did is a
good
step. Yeah. And I think that there needs
to be more companies
that come out and promote
audio

(28:28):
as a
continued fantastic
and I've been doing it. I've been doing
it on LinkedIn. I've been doing it on
my personal website. I've been we've been talking
about it at Bluberry,
that
the
the education on the creator's side,
they need to understand
that

(28:49):
I think
all this video stuff aside,
I think what the industry has to really
come back and say is, okay. We understand
this is over here.
We understand there's opportunities.
There's discovery.
There's listeners over there that you can gain.
But if you're coming in and getting started,
doing audio in the beginning is okay.

(29:13):
And actually, it's probably a good strategy to
start audio
Yeah. I would I would tend to agree
with that. You know, find your find your
sea legs, find your voice, build your content,
get your rapport, start getting guest booked, and
and, you know, and don't worry if you
don't have a face for video. Don't worry

(29:33):
about this other
stuff. You're gonna have a hard enough time
getting 10 good questions
and pacing to ask that guest
or go solo and have content to do
every week. There's a job in itself in
just getting show prep done.
That that that is that is more work

(29:54):
than
recording.
Yeah. But Todd, that's not necessarily
the strategy for
fast growing
shows though.
That But but that's the
that's that's the real rub here. Well So
what is the proper strategy for growing
a an audio podcast? Then put you then
put money where your mouth is, hire a

(30:15):
team.
If you want a fast growing,
you're gonna have to have three, four, five
people
that are doing all of this stuff. Again,
but I don't think exactly what the big
creators are doing, Todd, and that's why they're
they're being successful and they're growing. And that's
why small creators are saying, do I even
wanna do this?
Well,

(30:36):
I do remember a time,
not too long ago when
there was a few
creators that were that were discouraging people from
starting a podcast.
Well, there there's a person on on Facebook
right now in one of the popular groups

(30:57):
Right. That says this is what he said.
If you're not doing video, what are you
trying to hide?
What do you mean trying to hide? He's
making an accusation
that because you're not doing video, you have
something to hide. And I thought, what an
asshole.
What an absolute asshole
saying, what do you what do you have

(31:18):
to hide? Make an accusation
that,
you know, maybe because you're only doing audio,
have something to hide.
What you're gonna tell that to the 65
year old grandma that's recording a podcast?
Are you gonna say that to a woman
that's,
you know, living in a foreign country that
don't want her face to be seen? Are
you gonna say that

(31:38):
to, you know, there's just so many variables.
It's wrong.
And it's There is another way of looking
at that, and that's that's
if those people don't want
to to to do that, it's certainly their
their choice not to do that. But he's
he's making this accusation
in a podcast

(32:00):
Facebook group,
and
people are having the feeling like they have
to defend themselves.
Yeah. Of course. And I'm like, why why
I'm not gonna defend myself. I've been doing
video, but if someone doesn't wanna do video,
I said, it's my choice. It's my show.
PacSsan.
You know? So
I I just

(32:20):
you know? I think as the end the
key in the industry is we have to
just it's simple.
It's very simple.
Audio is still
incredibly viable. You can build an incredible audience.
It's gonna take work,
lots of work.
You're gonna have to do all the things.
You gotta you're gonna have to be pre
production, production, post production, social

(32:42):
promotion,
email newsletter sender,
clip creator. You gotta do all these things.
You got to.
That hasn't changed from ten years ago. Yeah.
I agree with that. Yeah. Definitely. Hasn't changed.
It's the same.
It hasn't made I mean,
I was hoping by now it would be

(33:03):
easier to get all this stuff set up,
but it's not. Yeah. It is easier. It's
it's well, it's it's pretty fragmented.
And, actually, I think of the AI stuff.
I I think AI has added a lot
of work.
Well, it I mean, it saves a little
bit, but it's also adds adds stuff. We've
done

(33:23):
stopwatch testing
Yeah. From a just pure production standpoint.
Right. It's it's quicker. It's quicker. When it
comes to social, no. What it's added
what it's added is before, I I I
couldn't do shorts. I couldn't.
I just didn't have time. The question is,
is it is it better, though?
Oh, I think so. But

(33:44):
is it Oh, we're seeing huge better than
what a human would do. Oh, I'm not
talking about the recording of the content. I'm
just No. No.
No. I'm talking about all of the I'm
just like you, Todd. I'm talking about, like,
the preproduction,
postproduction
type of AI work. From a
Right. And I think it goes back to
what I said before. You record for your

(34:05):
audience. You do the post production work for
Google and the AI crawlers.
In that regard, absolutely, it's better
for those that are doing it. Better or
just more efficient?
Higher quality key most you you know, for
years, I used to say, god, Rob.
And they put one line as a a
horrible episode title and one paragraph of show

(34:27):
notes.
You know, now now at least we're getting
comprehensive show notes. We're getting transcripts.
We're getting
media that has been normalized.
You know, there's four or five things that
have drastically improved.
Mhmm. So what have we done? We've went
from
absolute under

(34:47):
under utilization of what you could have done
if you'd have done it manually
to now being
just, I mean, primo
in the titling and the and the made
of content and, you know, the transcripts and
the chapters and all that stuff
is just superb.
Does it Right. Does it help the audio

(35:08):
content? Well, that's up to the creator. Right?
You know? But I think
it can,
being that there is, you know, probably an
outline and they can help themselves stay
on track and and follow a pattern with
the show.
But, you know, the social piece, what it's
done is I would have never, before AI,

(35:30):
never made clips, never made shorts, never done
any of that. I wouldn't
have. Yeah. It could be automated to some
degree now. Well, you still have to hand
touch it. There's the Opus clips capable of
performing. But it's not
you still have to touch it, you know.
You Well, if you're not doing any
any video, then it's not even an option
for you.

(35:50):
So Right. But we we made clipping available
for just pure audio podcasters. There's an image
put up and you you know? Oh, there
is? Yeah. Yeah. So we've got all that
if you're not doing any video.
So the the key there is is now
at least they can spend the fifteen minutes
if they choose, which makes it longer
because we've given some tools to be able
to do clips,
but not everyone does. Some people just don't

(36:12):
put their content up. So
Yeah. I wonder if we'll ever get to
a point, Todd, where well, I guess that's
what you're you're you're doing there, but it's
it's creating a clip,
in a video, but it's just audio. Right?
Right. Right. So you have, like, maybe a
a motion graph Yeah. Or something like that.
Something similar to Headliner, what Headliner does with
pure audio. Yeah.

(36:33):
But is that effective though, is the question?
Oh, yeah. It's just as effective as anything
else because it goes up on Twitter and
Facebook and, you know, it gets place.
You know? But it gets it's as effective
as a as a I don't know. I
don't video? I'm sure again, it all depends
on how many people are actually tuning into

(36:53):
your social. So there's a whole bunch of
variables.
You know?
It it really it really depends.
Again, higher the content If you were to
post post a motion graphics
audio to TikTok,
do you think
it has the potential to get the same
amount of engagement?
Yes. You know why? Because someone's gonna flip

(37:15):
in TikTok and not even know that you're
hitting your they're not seeking you out in
TikTok.
You just show up.
Well, also also, a lot of people have
their audio turned off.
Oh, that that's we give the we glove
the we give the closed caption.
So Yeah. No. I mean Yeah. That's what
I'm talking about is that, I mean, a
lot of people will have their audio Yeah.

(37:36):
So muted. We have our we have it.
All it sees is the text on the
screen. Yeah. We have that set up.
Yeah. Yeah. So but, again,
I I if you only have 10 followers
on TikTok
You're not gonna get that information. Right. You
know? So
it's all relative.
Yeah.

(37:57):
But, you know, being that the audience is
growing in in podcasting, so,
you know, I
more opportunity for the shows that are there.
For sure.
Yeah. I was looking at that,
that Signal Hill article, Todd. I don't know
if you have it up that you can
pull up on the screen, but it is

(38:17):
a little bit of a confusing message
on here based on
what what I'm saying? Because the slide that
it has up up here
shows in April of twenty twenty five
that
YouTube has the highest
percentage
of weekly podcast consumers

(38:38):
who use the platform
He's not he he's he's not podcast consumption.
His argument is,
essentially, is that YouTube doesn't own it all.
Well, yeah. I'm just looking at these two
slides. So and then the next one down,
it says most used podcast platform. So we
have,

(38:58):
Oh, yeah. And then right below, it says
a majority, 61%
of podcast consumers use
other I agree with that. Platforms
other than YouTube most often.
Yeah. Makes sense.
So
and that's
that's kind
opposite of what the slide above it says.

(39:20):
No. What they're what they're what they're saying
here is is that
percentage weekly podcasts who use platforms the most.
So YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. So Apple together
was
they're low. This is incredibly low. We're of
course, we don't compare YouTube.
They said 29%
and

(39:40):
YouTube is 39%.
Well, where's the rest? That's all others. That's
what they're referring to. Where where's where's the
29%?
Okay. So 30
excuse me. 21
plus eight
is 29%.
Oh, yeah. Right. Okay. So if you think
about 39,
39%
on YouTube Yeah. And 29%

(40:02):
on other Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Apple. And
then you have what's my math here? Let
me do the my fuzzy math. Set what
is that? 78?
What's that number total? Grand total.
Anyway, so in the end,
there's a whole bunch of other listing happening
somewhere else.
It's just not on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

(40:22):
It's on Overcast, Pocketcast.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's where they
get to 61.
Oh,
I see what you're saying. That's where the
remaining
percentage comes in. Okay.
So all all the other listening platforms like
Overcast
Yeah. And Pocketcast and all all those are
part of the 61%.

(40:42):
And it's, you know, it's it's half a
percent.
You know, it's it's it's
point 25%.
Or one and a half percent.
You know, and there's a, you know, 100
of those that have, you know, less than
1%.
Right. Right. You know, so
there's probably more.
But I think the argument here is

(41:03):
is that
there's a distribution
of listeners
Right.
And viewers or whatever you wanna say.
And So if if you're not doing something
see, this is the conversation about growth. Right?
Is is if you're not doing
YouTube, then you're missing out on

(41:24):
39
possible percent of According to according to this
Right. And then in the opposite, it could
be said if you're just doing YouTube. You're
missing 61%
of the of the audience. So, you know,
so it goes both ways.
Well, if you're only doing
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. If you're only doing
YouTube. But, you know, I think I agree

(41:44):
with what, you know, Adam and some others
have said here recently is that
this will work itself out, that we're gonna
have to give it a couple of years
because there's going to be
all of these folks that have been sold
this bill of goods,
and they're gonna go over there and figure
out, number one, it's hard.

(42:04):
Number two, you're not gonna get monetized.
And guess what? Guess what it is in
audio podcasting?
It's hard.
You're not gonna get monetized.
So
it's,
you know, it's
Yeah.
I mean,
yes. But that's that's a that's kind of
a failure mentality though, isn't it? Well,

(42:27):
it has nothing has changed.
No. I know. But
but if you're ambitious and you wanna create
a success for yourself, you probably don't think
like that. Well, if you're ambitious
and you wanna be a success for yourself,
then you will work the hours and put
in the time required to be successful.
You won't be you won't be a,

(42:48):
is there a word?
You won't be a side okay. Don't I
know I'm gonna get destroyed here. Don't be
a side hustle bro
that isn't able to make it with a
side hustle. If everyone can make it with
a side hustle, no one would have a
regular job.
Well, that may be that may be the

(43:09):
future we're heading into, Todd, with AI. Rob,
I I have a a job.
I know, Todd. And But but you look
look to the future,
nobody may have a job. Yeah. Yeah. That
again,
there So I think that alternative for us
I I I If you look look out
two to five years from now, all of

(43:30):
us may have to create Well side hustles
at some point. Well, I I I'll use
the word that Gogo said. I I ain't
believe I heard this more than two years
ago. Mhmm. There's the people that are the
creative types. They're gonna be super good. They're
gonna be great. There's the subject matter experts.
They're gonna be super great. They're good. It's
a people in the middle that does the
thunking. They're

(43:52):
screwed.
Case in point, I've got an employee.
I don't know. Did I tell you on
this in the last show? I've got an
employee.
She's getting
I won't say her age, but she's ready
to spend more time with her grandkids.
Oh, got it. Yeah. And,
she came to us and said, hey. I
don't wanna do full time anymore. I wanna

(44:12):
knock back to thirty five hours.
Right. And,
and we only work
tip we actually pay our employees for forty
hours for thirty six hours of work anyway.
So she wanted maybe she went back to
thirty hours. But, anyway, she wanted to go
back to
less hours.
And she says, I may wanna get the
work done anyway because I'm using

(44:34):
AI and we're, you know, we're saving we're
just being more effective.
And
so essentially,
even though she's rolled back her time,
we're we're essentially
getting about the same performance,
with her having to work less hours.

(44:54):
And,
I didn't
plan it that way. It's just kinda the
way it happened. So,
but she's happy.
Doesn't have to be in meetings that we're
doing every day of the week. You know?
She sees what her tasks are in Jira
and, you know, it it it works out.
So
AI is gonna have an effect
for sure.

(45:15):
I think it'll have a big effect.
But Apple and I don't know about Apple
and what they announced.
To me, it's just
it was it was good that Colin got
a shout out,
with his app. He got a whatever. Five
seconds or ten seconds or whatever it was.

(45:35):
His app Colin who?
I'm trying to think of his
last name.
Gray?
Colin Gray? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So,
So what was his app? His app is,
Altuo.

(45:56):
Don't holy crap. Oh, yeah. Altuo. Yeah. So
he got a call out during the WWC
keynote.
And,
so I think it's Alto. I think Alto.
Yeah. I Right. Yeah. But, you know, good
to him. You know, Colin, you know, he's
one of these unsung heroes.
He drove us an incredible amount of business

(46:16):
in his early days of
of podcasting. He was one of our top
affiliates for a number of years.
Yeah. He's out of The UK. Yeah. Now
he's kinda doing his own thing. So I'm
I'm
sexually happy for him
on on on what he got there. But,
you know, so they've done some stuff.

(46:38):
You got a list here. Enhanced dialogue, custom
playback speeds. Woo hoo. Marco I think there
was a someone kinda did a giggle giggle
that Marco's worried now because of the custom
playback speeds.
Don't listen at 1.2 or 1.5.
It'll make you,
there is
some
truth to this. Don't don't laugh at me.
If you listen to shows faster than one

(47:00):
time low speed, it can cause
higher levels in anxiety.
So
just be careful. Get stressed out by it.
Oh, I can't do it. I do it.
It, you know, it's just like, like, drink
five cups of coffee and,
you know,
so It's just too much. Yeah. You're trying
to
trying to live your life and not get

(47:21):
Doing a mic doing mic routing.
Oh, the AirPods. Please don't record a podcast
with AirPods.
But, you know, some will. It's okay. Well,
it's yeah. I think that the mic routing
is that you can assign a different microphone
to each app or a different app. Mhmm.
Right? Yeah. So if you have a If

(47:42):
it's preconfigured,
you don't have to change it.
Correct. So So what's happening is is they're
making for those of you that are Mac
users,
the iPad in iOS 26 is gonna have
a departure. It's gonna be more like the
desktop or your laptop
than it is like the iPhone.
So they're they're aligning them much, much closer

(48:05):
together.
You'll have the kind of similar experience. But
this glass thing that they're doing, it's got
me worried. You know?
They're smart. We'll see what happens. Big,
revolution around this glass thing. Yeah. It's just
it's a UI thing.
It's just a I know it's I think
it's just a gimmick? I think it's still
it make it try to look pretty. Who

(48:27):
knows?
It's just a gimmick. I don't I don't
stare I I I just want my phone
to be usable.
I don't need a gimmick.
You know, let me get to my email
quicker. Let me get to my text message.
You know?
Yeah. I mean, when's Apple gonna actually come
out with anything that's innovative?
I don't see anything on this list that
I consider to be innovative.

(48:49):
A lot of stuff the Android's already done,
but
they trade feature stuff all the time.
Yeah. I know that,
Tim Cook's been under a little bit of
external pressure,
by the Apple
Apple community to resign.

(49:09):
Oh, that's interesting.
Why is that?
Well, because Apple seems to be
stuck.
They're not really announcing any any new products.
They're not really announcing anything that
was like what they used to do when
Steve Jobs was in charge. Right? Where they
would come out with a new device or

(49:29):
a new platform that was
changing the game. You know what I you
know what I think the majority? Small updates.
It's just small
little changes is all that they announced. I
bet you if we could get inside data
to the usage of, iPhone or an Android,
I bet you it would be broken down
into about five things.
Taking pictures
Yeah. Sending SMS messages

(49:52):
Right. Talking on Facebook,
and listening to music,
I think and maybe some games.
What else podcasts. And some podcasts.
But what else are people using their phones
for?
Most people are not people. I mean, Todd,
I mean, just think about the app

(50:12):
infrastructure.
Right? And also,
also contrast that to
what's going on with AI.
Apple seems to not get
or understand or know how
to deploy
AI,
which is that's gonna hurt them. Well Actually,
I sold all my stock or actually most
of my stock in Apple because I've I've

(50:33):
kind of lost faith in the company. I
think what they're also seeing is we have
to be really careful even internally in the
company. We scrutinize
everything that's an output
of AI. And invariably,
we will find
and when we're editing documents, we will find
one or two things typically that is wrong.

(50:56):
And, you know, we have to be real
careful that we don't get into this sing
song type of publishing a content that all
looks the same, has so we have to
really work hard at it. So
my thought maybe is is that Apple said
it's not ready.
And, you know, they're pretty particular about what
they put out or

(51:17):
or they're just simply behind.
And they move slow. It's as evident in
the podcast
app.
Yeah. I mean yeah.
And
they didn't add the toggle between audio and
video
No. This time. No. I I didn't.
If we get that, it'll be two years.

(51:40):
Well,
that speaks to the problem here, Todd. Well,
you know, and and yet I look at
even internally at my company. I can only
turn stuff out. So if I'm a small
company and I got a small dev team,
believe it or not, the Apple Podcast team
has a relatively
in my understanding,
and I might be wrong, so I might
be speaking out of my butt here, but

(52:03):
they have a relatively
small time share of amount of
time the devs dev utilization they get on
the Apple Podcast app. There's not I don't
think there's dedicated programmers for the Apple Podcasts.
Yeah. I don't think so. Maybe I you
know, this is my hypothesis.
No. I'm sure there's not. I mean, that's
just one of the apps that the team

(52:24):
Yeah. Updates
occasionally. But well, that's something I've got the
team looking into it. We had, an unusual
spike in Apple Podcasts utilization
in May.
They were they had a ten ten
point jump off of average.
And I got the team digging into

(52:45):
why.
And we'll In the usage or the downloads?
In the in the percentage of, usage. And,
you know, they went from 49 to 59.
And,
you know, usually we'll see, you know, hover
two or three points.
But,
I got one of my devs looking into
it, figuring out where did this bump come

(53:05):
from.
Yeah. Because it seems like, you know,
some of these things that Apple added
were should be pretty low on the priority
as far as
features to add to any any platform. I
mean, it's like, look at, you know, like
the custom icons and
and stuff like that, you know, with different

(53:27):
colors. Some of that stuff is just easy.
It's easy. It's low hanging fruit.
It's just easy. It's easy to
do. So, you know, maybe, you know, I've
got all kinds of I have this short
list of, like, three hours of coding time.
Auto sleep detention? You know,
detection, is that really a feature that anybody

(53:47):
really cares about? I don't know. You see
what I have? You see what I have
here? I have my fly swatter.
I got a fly that's been dive bombing
me for two days. I thought to tell
you I know you were talking about bug
killing in,
in Apple's Club. I have I have I
have a fly that's been dive bombing for
two days. He
he doesn't know it yet. Either time or

(54:09):
I will get him with the fly swatter.
And I've had a shower today.
So
yeah. You have the killer instinct, Todd. Yes.
And the key is you have to be
careful where you slap around here because I
may end up jacking the switcher and then
it will show some something weird on my
screen. So who knows?
Yeah. Or my audio will go mute all
of a sudden. Yeah. Hey, by the way,

(54:30):
so what's going on with the podcast hall
of fame?
Well, it's,
ramping back up. So I'm trying to get
it, you know. I've done some calls with
the the Podfest folks, and we're
strategizing about how we wanna move forward. So
that's the that's the stage that we're at.
I know we're about six months out now.

(54:53):
So this is the kickoff time to start
gathering
any new nominations
for consideration.
Oh, so
who should
should they email you? If you wanna send
me an email, that's fine. [e-mail],
and I'd be happy to to
consider nominations at this point and to add

(55:15):
to the pool of of folks. You know,
I haven't publicly
released
the list of the current
nominations
that are in the list. Have we done
that before?
I've never done that before. Are you going
to do that this year? That I might
might consider doing that just so people know
who's in the list or not.

(55:36):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't
think that would hurt. What's your thought about
that, Todd?
I don't think it would hurt.
Transparency
is always good.
Yeah.
And then what it would do is it
would cause people to say, how come he
or she is not on the list? But
you also have to make sure you put
the criteria there on what
the

(55:58):
qualifications are to get on the list.
Oh, that's already on the website. Oh, okay.
So Yeah. Yeah. So
well, the Academy Awards,
they always say who the nominees
are. Yeah. I I
It can be a pretty long I mean,

(56:19):
I think it's currently probably
close to probably 80 names so far. So,
you know, I mean, it might help those
that are considering
to nominate someone to know who's already nominated.
Right? So they don't
so I don't get a bunch of emails
from people saying, well, this person Yeah. Should
be inducted and and but they're already

(56:39):
on the list. So the challenge then is
is
when someone knows they're on the list, because
I don't know if people even know they're
on the list. There's there's probably most of
them on the list probably don't even know.
Right. So if they know know they're on
the list, then it could end up being
campaigns
of
emails to the other,

(57:01):
say, hey. Please vote for me. Here's who
I am.
I will And I also want to
expand the pool of voters
too. So Yeah. Then how do you do
that?
Now who who would you invite?
There has to be some criteria
to that.

(57:24):
Yeah.
You know, because
Yeah. I haven't actually specified that, so I
don't even wanna say. Yeah. And again, how
do you come up with that list?
You know?
Yeah. Because currently, the only voters that exist
in the hall of fame are people that
have already been inducted. Because let's and I
I'm just I'm just gonna use a name

(57:45):
here, and let's say you invited James Cridland
to vote.
Then
could he if he gets on the list,
he would be then probably excluded from being
able to vote.
So how do you then
you know, there's the problem
if you have Well I don't know. You
know, I'm just I think it's clear that

(58:05):
it's, I mean, you can say in the
rules you can't vote for yourself,
but
yeah. So I think that's that's probably covered
by that. Here's here's the guarantee.
Someone would be pissed off no matter what.
Of course.
Well, that's just a given, Todd. I mean,
because I made a lot of a lot

(58:26):
of statements,
last year that I was gonna expand it
internationally.
Yeah. And so the only way that I
can see that I can actually accomplish that
is Is to get some other people. To
the voters. Oh. And to people outside of
The US too. Not so much I mean,
most of the people that are
voting today are are people in The US.
So what we should actually have is another

(58:48):
hall of fame in London
associated with the podcast show.
Doesn't have to be as a big of
a deal, but there could be
a
you look at James. He got recognized by
the
Academy of Podcasters,
and I don't know how that happened.
Like, you know, that that was kind of
outside.

(59:09):
Begin, I'd you know, he deserves it. But
again, then what,
you know, what criteria
you know, because it'd been because there's a
lot of people that should be in the
hall of fame that just there were so
backlogged.
Yeah.
And if you're gonna open up international, there
should be some maybe it's not as a
grand of event, but

(59:30):
figure something out where you they can have
an interview that tells their story that's so
important
that happens during the award ceremony. That's the
true value of
hearing these people's stories. That's the incredible part
about the people that are actually nominated,
that win basically, they're the winners or don't

(59:51):
want the winners, but, you know, who makes
the who makes up the inductees,
those stories they tell. And you would not
want to discount the inductees telling their story,
but it'd be nice if we could maybe
start in Europe.
Yeah.
I was thinking about this just
like a couple weeks ago

(01:00:12):
that,
there isn't a lot of examples
of of an event like the podcast hall
of fame that is truly international. Right. I
know that there's there's a Hollywood
kind of awards
ceremony. I think it's the international press,
awards event that happens down in L. A.

(01:00:33):
Every year, which is international.
The other element of this too, is that
sure,
we we we can have nominees
that are from
Europe and from
Asia and all that kind of stuff that
can be added to the list. But the
question gets back to is, will those people
actually
travel to to accept their awards anyway?

(01:00:54):
So so those people could, I guess, do
a video. So the the maybe the opportunity
is
you have a London event for people in
Europe,
then you have
something in Australia that someone down there can
some event that happens in Australia, the people
that deserve to be and maybe it's Australian

(01:01:14):
Podcast Hall of Fame.
Right. They have four or five
people that are Southeast Asia's Podcast Hall of
Fame. And, you know, so maybe it's, you
know, you have Asia. You can't do it
all in one go, but maybe you could
do Australian. You can do maybe Australia and
New Zealand.
And because I don't know a lot of
podcasts out in New Zealand, but mostly Australia.

(01:01:34):
But maybe you could do
because I'm sure there's a you know, down
there, they have their own I don't know
the characters in Australia, but James and other
folks do. So,
you may have to do like Gary did
the year. So, okay. Here's the five people
that we're gonna induct in Australia, or give
me the list.
Yeah. I suppose I mean, if it was

(01:01:55):
set up like,
a small group in Australia
organized a, you know, a local in person
hall of fame event. Right? So it isn't
like, you know, every event has to be
organized from here necessarily
and and have that scattered around the the
world like in Asia. Mhmm. You can have

(01:02:16):
one in Asia and Malaysia
or or a place like that that covers
that part of the world,
and then have one down in Australia that
covers
that
area down there, which isn't that far away.
And I think you honor them all the
same. You put them on the podcast hall
of fame site by region,
and maybe it's not even by region. Maybe

(01:02:37):
it's just
they're in the list.
I I I think it's doable. It's just
not gonna be maybe done the way
from a presentation wise that you want, but
there's just so many deserving thoughts. Maybe it's,
it's something that I can get into a
partnership with the podcast show to put on
in London Yeah. To cover

(01:02:57):
cover Europe. But they don't have a well,
they have stage events, so maybe it can
be yeah. You know?
So Yeah. So I I mean, it would
still be the podcast hall of fame. It
just would be like a, like, almost like
a chapter of the event. And those those
trophies aren't cheap, so they would take some
money.

(01:03:18):
Oh, yeah. Well They do it. You know?
I plan on trying trying to obtain more
sponsorships
this year. Because I think those trophies are,
like, $400
a piece.
I don't know that they're I think that's
what I paid for my replacement was $4.03
70.
Yeah.
But Okay. Anyways. I think it's definitely in
that 300. Yeah. They're they're they're

(01:03:41):
a rock. But anyways Well, they're they're they're
crystal. Yeah. So right? Yeah. It causes my
causes my, my my You can see it
on the causes causes the shelf to sag.
Right. Or you can see mine up here.
Yeah. Your your shelf is sagging too. Oh,
yes.
I don't think it's that it. You need
an extra 10 pounds on the airline to

(01:04:01):
go home.
Right.
So So I think that, you know, I'm
gonna
start I'm gonna update the website here soon,
and and I'll I'll just put up the
the list of names
of nominees in there, and I'll put out
a press release. And
and we will start out there. And then,
at the bottom of that that announcement,

(01:04:22):
I'll say, you know, if
if you think that some person that you
know or the person
thinks that they qualify for for consideration of
of a nomination,
and to be potentially included, then send me
an email. And I'd be happy to do
that. And if I can add a form
somewhere I think a form you could do

(01:04:42):
that too. To collect the information because we
we don't know everybody.
Right. And good bios too from, you know,
get you Well, I did that for last
year. Actually, I
I use an electronic,
voting
system. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I used last
year.
And I was able to put in photographs
and bios into And some of the people

(01:05:04):
I had no idea who they were. Yeah.
And that's the challenge right there, Todd, is
that if we if we get people into,
the nomination list that nobody's ever heard of
before, right,
then they're never gonna vote for them. Right.
Right?
So
and even even putting a bio in there
may not get them to vote for them.
So But if if if everyone in the

(01:05:25):
group because we have a lot of people
that are
not you know, I think they should at
least be known.
Yeah. But again, some people have done some
incredible stuff that are not known.
Right. And I think it may be
just to get on the nomination
for consideration
should be a
a perceived

(01:05:46):
kind of accomplishment.
And maybe there needs to be,
so many people that actually prove that person
to get on the nomination list.
Maybe there needs to be, like,
five, six, seven, ten people to review the
people that are gonna be on the and,
you know, you hate to do that. Be
the yeah. It should be probably the board.
Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

(01:06:08):
You know? And and maybe it only takes,
you know, a simple a simple majority, three
out of five or whatever the number is.
Okay. You know? I because it because, you
know, if as long as there's a bio,
and then we can all do our own
due diligence, go out on Google and look
their shows up or whatever they've done,
and someone may be able to vouch for

(01:06:29):
somebody too. They may say, oh, yeah. My
god. Look what that individual has done.
They've done this, this, this, this, and this.
Yeah. I think for any any new
nominees
for consideration,
I think that should be
the the process. Yeah. We don't wanna exclude
anybody. We wanna give as much benefit of
the doubt as possible, but

(01:06:49):
you you start showing the list.
Next thing you know, you're gonna have a
100 people that say, I
how come I'm not on there?
So, you know, that and and then Yeah.
And then it makes a complicated It does.
The situation
for for the voting block of people
that have to sift through,
you know, two or 300 names or something.

(01:07:09):
And if there's a public list of who's
on and who's been accepted, then the person's
gonna be pissed. If they're not accepted, well,
look at them. They're all biased. And so
there's no
there's no perfect
there's no perfect solution.
Yeah. It's the same thing with sports, Todd.
There's winners and losers. There's no so anyway,

(01:07:31):
we're already over. Quick take.
Best advice for new creators?
I think my best advice is is that,
you know, start where you can. Yes.
Start
audio.
I I would consider just audio at the
beginning,
but
don't lock your mind out of trying to

(01:07:52):
try and create some
some shorts that are just created on your
mobile phone.
And
and and explore that and see if that
makes sense for you. And
and but create a, you know, as compelling
of an audio experience and an audio program
as you can for your genre and your
show and create terrific graphics. And

(01:08:13):
and your cover art is so important now.
What's your what's the title? What's the mission
of the show? What are you trying to
do? And then in the podcast itself
and we're seeing this trend line also in
in YouTube too. It's not all about these
polished productions.
There's this this movement that's going on around
just like what I I asked to do

(01:08:33):
in this episode today, Todd, was not play
any intro music. Right? Let's just it's just
us. Right? Let's just jump in, create the
content, and then we get out of here,
not with a bunch of You don't you
mean you don't want any of this? Welcome
to
Yeah. I mean, it's it's unnecessary. And especially
in the the age that we're in right

(01:08:54):
now is that
the only time that you should do that
is if there's some sort of a tease
in there, right, about what's what the listener
is gonna get by listening or viewing this.
Right? That is like teasing you, and you're
increasingly seeing that in the content that's being
produced on YouTube.
And I've been doing it in my audio

(01:09:15):
podcast for years. Well, I'll say, well, these
are the topics in the show today,
and then say, please keep listening. And that
that's what I'd like to do with this
show too is is to tease the topics
that we're gonna talk about on the show
and be disciplined and stick to it. Right?
So As and cover those at least. I
mean, we we can expand beyond that if
we want. But So
my my best advice is just please start.

(01:09:37):
Don't listen to any of this advice that's
out here. And by the way,
Yeah. The Felix said in
the the chat, he said, Canada, don't forget
about Canada for hall of fame. They're included.
Canada's
already included in
the nomination stacks. The US and Canada are
included already for hall of fame.
Yeah. And and and to be fair, we

(01:09:59):
we need to consider Mexico too. Sure. So
and and then there's, of course, there's South
America too, which, Todd, you and I both
know is huge in podcasting. You need someone
that can speak Portuguese to hand run run
that up. Right. Right. So It's not us,
Todd. Alright. So we we didn't go we
went 70, so we're we're gonna get out
of here.

(01:10:20):
And Well, we had a lot to talk
about. It was, like, two weeks. Well, I've
I've I've got a you you did you
listen to the last show I recorded?
I did. Okay. Good.
Is that why you're back? Because I I
didn't dog you in the in the commentary.
Wasn't that as much as I was just
kind of the posing of the question. Should

(01:10:40):
we continue doing this show? Is it relevant
to people? And
and it also, you know, maybe is a
it is a little bit of a reset
for us, right, as we think about what
we're doing with this show and what the
flow of it and how it works and
how it conforms into the expectations in the
market today. So the stuff I didn't cover,
that we didn't cover, that you let us

(01:11:00):
know if you want us to cover
There's a lot. Would sound profitable
on their attention and trust.
Just go look at their presentation.
Tom can explain it better than we can.
There's a bunch of stuff. Companies I've never
heard of that got IV certified
and some benchmarks that are out there on
promo code utilization that I completely disagree with.

(01:11:25):
And anyway Are you getting pulled into the
the the whole, kind of confusing conversation
around Substack
No. That's happening in in in the podcasting
space right now? No.
I've noticed that there's some people that are
hosting their podcast on Substack. Oh, great.
So Substack has has built a very confusing

(01:11:47):
podcasting tool. It's been there for a long
time.
Well, I yeah.
They've been promoting it more here lately, and
I've seen some large creators get in there
and do something with it. And I'm, like,
I'm,
like, a little bit,
confused that they've been promoting it so heavily,
but in my perception, it's not really all
that great. So it's like

(01:12:09):
it's a little bit like what happened with
SoundCloud. Right?
Where they they they promoted something, they offered
it, a lot of people adopted it, but
yet it just never
improved.
It's it's just not to dog them, but
there was a site that launched called proxy
feed that were promoting how you could have

(01:12:29):
all these podcasting two point o features if
you moved over there
and use them. And I went on their
website. They only have one podcasting two point
o feature implemented.
And I'm like,
oh, okay. I guess that's all it took
to make the claim, Todd.
Yeah. So,
not that we've done anything like that at
all with our service. So, you you you

(01:12:50):
know, it's it's okay.
I just kinda had to giggle. It was
all promoting about podcasting two point o, and
there was they gotta start somewhere. So,
proxy feed, just go over and look at
podcast mirror, tell us what else we should
do. But they are mapping subdomains, so
that's that's smart.
Okay.
[e-mail]

(01:13:10):
at Geek News on x,
and, my mastodon is at [e-mail].
Rob? Alright. I'm on I'm on x
at rob greenley.
Rob greenley dot com
is the primary places to
find me. And then also we're working on
a new podcast, Todd. So

(01:13:30):
so I may
shut down some of the other things that
I'm I've been working on because I've got
too many podcasts and really put my energy
into a new show. So,
that's kind of kind of the direction that
I'm going. And I've got more things that
I wanna, you know, announce over the next
few weeks
in regards to that and some other things

(01:13:52):
that I've been getting involved in. So it's
just,
yeah,
take it as it comes. And the whole
fame is,
is, is building too. And I'm gonna be
doing some
other things with with that as well. So
hopefully, it's gonna
be gonna be a compelling thing this year.
Sounds like a new job.

(01:14:13):
Kind of. The It's more of a kinda
like a cofounder type Oh, okay. Type of
a relationship. The, I am doing some additional
shows. We just been kinda working on them,
and, they are in Apple Podcast,
but they are
originate on YouTube, and then they it's called
the podcast news and podcast myth of podcast.

(01:14:34):
So
I'm trying to put out one a week,
five minutes.
It's about the length of it. And,
so anything we're putting on YouTube right now
is also coming in as an audio podcast.
So
we're staying true to using our own tools,
drinking our own Kool Aid.
Alright, everyone. Thanks for being here. We you
know, we're trying to get to an hour

(01:14:55):
and a half. We're an hour sixteen, so
let's get out of here.
See Alright. Let's see everybody. Thanks. We'll see
you next time. Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye.