YouTube isn’t Podcasting King

In this episode of “The New Media Show,” hosts Todd Cochrane and Rob Greenlee discuss the evolving landscape of podcasting, with a focus on the interplay between audio and video content, especially addressing the question of whether YouTube is dominating the podcasting space. The episode opens with Todd welcoming Rob back from a trip to … Continue reading YouTube isn’t Podcasting King →

The post YouTube isn’t Podcasting King appeared first on New Media Show.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the new media
show. And, yes, Rob is here.
Yeah. I was just on a on a
ten day trip back to Seattle to spend
time with my dad. I and and I
didn't. I I think you told me, but
I think I just forgot. So anyway Okay.
Yeah. A couple of people applied for your
job last week. So I would imagine probably

(00:23):
so. Yeah.
Hence why those of you I haven't replied
via email.
Well,
yeah, Todd. Sometimes it's good to kinda,
you know, shake things up a little bit
and tidy get people's attention.
Yeah. Well, I I I guess. You know?
So,
you know, what's funny is I had put
together some some talking points today and so

(00:44):
did you, so we kinda get a mismatch
of stuff in two different docs. But,
they're all good topics. So I guess it
depends on how long of an episode we
wanna make. Well, we're we're gonna try to
keep a couple of suggestions that had come
in via the boost was
keep it to sixty minutes. Don't go ninety.
So That's what I was thinking too, actually.

(01:06):
If you see in my outline, it says
sixty minutes on it. Yeah. We'll try.
We'll see. There is a couple of good
things, though, that,
popped today. And it's kinda funny because
I had run into a bunch of people
at the podcast show and said, we gotta
start changing narrative.
You know, we gotta we gotta get off
this, you know,
you know, we we need to recapture the

(01:27):
narrative that audio is still good. And it's
so funny because,
you know, this article by Paul,
from,
Paul Risendale,
And his,
YouTube isn't dominating podcasting. It's probably what I
would consider probably one of the more
balanced,
you know, balanced pieces that I've seen in

(01:49):
a while.
And Paul's from Signal Hill Yeah.
Research.
And, yeah, I thought it was an interesting
article too.
But, Todd, I think we both kinda
knew in the back of our minds that
that was probably true,
that and increasingly, we're seeing
evidence that audio podcasting is still very strong.

(02:11):
Well, there's it's not evidence. We know it's
strong. That's the key. Well, I Yeah.
That's only in comparison to,
I guess, what
the focus that's been so heavily Right. On
the video side.
And so I think that,
you know, I think that if you look
at Apple Podcasts, and we can talk a
little bit about what Apple Podcasts,

(02:34):
announced at the WWDC
also,
that has an impact on podcasting, but they
still haven't done what we both hoped that
they would have. But
but we'll see if that's that's still coming.
But this whole thing around,
you know, the importance of audio is certainly
you know, I I have this perception that

(02:54):
I've been, like, all this pro video pro
video stuff, but
if you really listen to what I've said
over the last few
months and really,
and I'm I'm trying to emphasize this again
just because I think that it's been confused.
My
my position on this,
is that

(03:15):
video is kinda like getting more attention now.
Right? But nonetheless,
the history of podcasting and if you just
look at the contrast between,
consumption of podcasts
on iOS
versus
Android too. I think it gives you a
kind of a better picture of what's happening
here to some degree. But, audio is still,

(03:39):
growing and it's still a significant
contributor to the success
of podcasting. And I think
video has just gotten more attention because it's
kinda like like you said, Todd, it's a
little bit of a you know, it's the
shiny thing Mhmm.
That's that's kind of in the space right
now.

(03:59):
And I think,
maybe this conversation
this is what I kinda teased on my
my YouTube channel is kinda navigating
podcasting's
confusing future because I think it is a
confusing landscape, especially for new creators entering the
space. Oh. They're seeing all of the
this crazy discussion around

(04:21):
how video is taking over, but yet
it's it's difficult to do video. But I
think it's even more complex than just that
singular issue around
how people are getting attention now,
personal branding,
and all these elements.
And the other truth is is that, big
shows are growing faster than small shows are.

(04:42):
And I think that's that's something that we
have to focus on too. How do we
help small
start up audio podcasts
grow in this new landscape? The again, the
conversations that I am having,
as I said before,
they feel disenfranchised. They feel left out. They're

(05:02):
being left behind.
They feel that and, you know,
I talked with, Chris Hermostis.
I apologize,
Chris. I always destroy
your last name,
from Podfest. And,
he thinks that 85% of the podcast market
doesn't care about

(05:22):
you know, I I, you know, I've always
said 70%. He said he's more like 85.
Of course, he works in the indie, so
his he's more
tendency to agree with me that,
you know, we're we're disenfranchising
a lot of potential. And

(05:43):
I have a suspicion
that
maybe
part of this discussion is is that
those that are monetizing
and those businesses,
maybe they're starting to see a decline of
new talent and new shows coming in, and
maybe they're worried just a little bit. And

(06:04):
maybe this is where they go, oh, uh-oh.
The Golden Goose. What specifically are you talking
about, Tyler? Are you talking about the podcast
hosting companies? Well, no. I'm talking about creators.
Creators? Oh, I thought that you were talking
about platforms. No. Well, I'm what I'm talking
about is,
basically, that there's this
creator economy
that is definitely has two camps,

(06:26):
you know. And the camp that's in the
in the, you know, back in the deep
grass,
it's not being paid attention to too much,
are feeling disenfranchised.
They don't wanna do video, or they're concerned
they have to do video. Someone that's getting
in the space thinks they wanna do video.
So, anyway, it's a conversation we've already had.
But again,
it goes back to

(06:47):
where I You're talking about audio graders. Is
that what you're talking about? Well, in in
essentially, audio it's brand new creators that wanna
do a podcast, but Right. They're telling me,
Todd, I don't wanna do video. Not everyone
says that. You know, there's I would say
that that's that's,
you know, I think it's a spectrum too.
Yeah. It is. It is. How how do
you

(07:07):
get into video if you're an audio podcaster?
I think it's the conversation that we need
to have. Well,
the kind
Yeah. It's like what what's the easy way
to start doing
some video but not have it take over
your life? No. What the what the conversation
is is you need to start with audio
and and then figure out if you wanna
do video.

(07:28):
Well, yeah.
But I do think that,
there are trends in the market that would
point you to this perspective that
doing some
video is
probably a smart way to build your your
brand awareness for yourself No doubt. As well
as as,
as grow your
potentially grow some interest in your audio podcast.

(07:51):
No doubt. But they don't wanna do it.
They don't want to do video.
There's a percentage. Because they're
they're over,
thinking it because of what they see with
the big creators. I'm I'm sure it all
adds I'm sure it all adds to it.
All of it. You know, these fancy sets,
all these fancy lights. All of it. Fancy

(08:11):
cameras,
all all that stuff are not really necessary.
But it's but it's the perception and it
is the overwhelming
thing that they're facing. And they say, I
don't have a face. I I don't wanna
be on video. I you know, it's it
runs all the things we've heard for years.
Yeah. But it's it's more amplified now. And
but the problem is,

(08:32):
again,
this is what I'm hearing as a podcast
host.
You can hear it in their voice.
I wanna do podcast.
You know? But every time I have to
video, I don't do video. And I and
I go back to the same conversation we've
had a 100 times. You can start with
audio,

(08:53):
build your audience, find your voice, and build
into this. I think that
there's two challenges here.
Those are existing content creators. You know, they're
adding elements and doing stuff in video. They're
gonna do that. So if they wanna build
their show.
Yeah. And, you know, we're gonna see that.
But the true challenge, the true thing that

(09:14):
is at risk for the entire space is
new creators.
And if the new creators are not coming
in
and they're not have the
opportunity to build a big show
or build a show that's growing,
and there's plenty of opportunity too. Huge opportunity
too.
So

(09:37):
Well, I think the really, really big question,
Todd, of all this is,
are you really gonna be able to grow
your podcast
audience
just doing audio only. I think so. I
think it's if you if you have great
content I know that there's a lot of
evidence of that, Todd. So We see shows
growing all the time. We we have a
whole stack of shows that are growing that

(09:58):
are audio only.
Okay.
Then why is why aren't there
new creators? I mean, because usually the new
creators follow success. Right? So is there something
about
audio now
that is
not working? Right? I know. I Based on

(10:20):
the the the expectations of the audience. And
I guess my
my increasing thought is is that we need
to do as an industry, we need to
do a better job of helping those audio
creators
determine what the best path forward is
to actually grow their show, not just concept.
It may be, Todd, and I'm just showing

(10:43):
the the baby out there. Yeah. And and
hopefully, it doesn't go go with the bathwater,
but but it's it's to, you know, think
about ways that we can help those audio
creators be successful.
And what are the
the pathways for helping them accomplish that? And
if it includes some,

(11:03):
like, maybe just doing short form video,
vertical video that's put out there as a
personal brand brand development. I'm starting to talk
more and more about how important it is
to build personal brand of the host
even over
building the brand of the podcast
as the key to growing now. And that

(11:24):
may include building your reputation
in the area or the genre that you're
doing your podcast about. And yeah. Great content
is going to succeed. Well,
that's a given now. It's almost like that's
that's table stakes, but it's also very, very,
very subjective
to say it's gotta be good content. Well,

(11:45):
what is
what does it look like to make good
content? It's subjective.
It is. And I think that that is
what one of those things that if we
keep telling new creators, well, it's gotta be
great content,
then they're gonna be confused because
they don't know what great content looks like.
I think Or what's the expectation in the
market? I think my expectation as a podcaster

(12:08):
is feedback,
engagement
of the community. It takes time, doesn't it?
Sure. You know, it takes time to get
feedback. A lot of creators, when they get
started, they don't get any feedback. No. That's
true.
And And and so they get lost in
this quagmire of
speak feeling like you're speaking alone into the
microphone, and nobody's listening. And so a a

(12:31):
period of time goes by where
where maybe there's a chance the show isn't
growing,
but what can they do
to be able to,
find that audience that would be interested in
their show? And I think that's the challenge.
Every every creator today, and it hasn't changed
from the beginning of time Mhmm. Yeah. Has

(12:53):
to do a whole bunch of stuff. And
usually, they're wearing one hat.
Yeah. They have to do all the things
that, you know, you have to be out
there in social. You have to be, you
know, promoting your episodes. You have to be
clipping. None of this has changed. None of
it. None of this none of those fundamentals,
participating in community,
going where your listeners are, all that stuff

(13:15):
still applies.
Here's the problem.
Everyone wants a damn easy button.
Yeah. Right. Of course. And there's no easy
button.
You know, you you you gotta work.
And, you know, we had a call yesterday.
We have office hours every Tuesday and, you
know,
had a great conversation with podcasters, and we're
talking about stats specifically.

(13:36):
I was, you know, spend an hour on
stats. And, you know, again and again and
again, and I was blown away. Thank you
for what you're doing. We're having great success
with our show. We're reaching people. And, you
know, I'm hearing from these people that, you
know, the other calls I'm having during the
week are, you know, I wanna grow my
show.
Help me grow my show. And then all
these other folks are on the call yesterday,

(13:57):
like, oh, we're doing good. We're growing. Dada
dada. We're talking with sponsors. But, you know
and these were folks that have been pod
the average age
of all those podcasts that were I think
there was 14 on the call, two years
plus. Actually, three years plus.
So there wasn't anyone in the call that
was in that zero to three years because
I was trying to get a feel

(14:18):
where everyone was at. So I was enthused.
I was like, oh my god. We got
all the folks on this call are three
plus year podcasters,
and they're loving what they're doing.
But I, you know, I I think social
media and branding is
I've talked about it. You and I have
talked about it. It's critical. You know? Yeah.
Yeah. It just may be more important now

(14:39):
than ever.
And I I don't know that there's a
clear
or I don't know that there's been clear,
I guess, communication to new creators around,
you know, what the best pathway is on
how to do all this stuff. But, you
know, it's gonna be it's gonna be different
for everybody, and it may not work for

(14:59):
everybody. I That's the reality of it. You
know, I've I've got a doc somewhere
that I have, like
it's like a I think it's I I
used to call it, like, a 13 step
plan or something like that. And I have
not. I used to speak on
it. Matter of fact, I have to dig
those out. It was all about
these are the things you have to do.
And,

(15:20):
you know, the video component
is probably the now.
You know, the or
item.
But, you know,
you as a
as a as a solo,
as a indie with no staff,
you know, how have I been able to
multiply my time? I've finally got someone that

(15:41):
helps me with preproduction.
They're a fan of the show.
I'm able luckily to be able to pay
him to do that, but
he started as volunteer
helping the show. And and and so I
think
what we really need to do is make
sure people are empowering their audiences. Say, hey.
I you know, I you let's grow this
together. Help me.

(16:02):
And I think, you know, they can help
with these extra components of stuff. And and
the tools are pretty fantastic right now in
doing clipping and and all that stuff. So
I you know, we've we've even at Blueberry
tried to make it easier
to do clipping
so that you can essentially get in and
have clips made in ten, fifteen minutes.

(16:23):
But
people are time constrained right now. Everyone's busy.
Yeah. Super, super busy. So,
Annette maybe I'm trying to learn
from larger successful shows on the strategies that
they're taking to fund growth, and it's and
it's hard to translate that into
an individual

(16:44):
single podcaster that's just launching an audio podcast.
Well, it it Difficult. Because those folks have
teams.
Well, that's exactly kinda my point, Robert. It's
that it is it's increasingly
taking a team to build a podcast now.
Well I'm not sure that the industry is
really talking about the professionalization
of this medium

(17:05):
in a way that is,
you know, accessible to
new creators like it was in the past.
But but, again, those people that have teams
are already generally
have been successful
in Making revenue. Right? Content already. So it's
not
again, it's there's an apples there's not an

(17:27):
apples and apples situation here. They're on a
they're they started at a different level.
They started like an Oprah,
you know. Well You know? Yeah. At that
level, they were already a semi celebrity semi
in the

(17:48):
individual podcaster that does not have a team,
which again makes up probably 85%
of the podcasting space today.
Mhmm.
They just gotta do what they gotta do.
They gotta they gotta they gotta
be able to work.
I I can't
Rob, you know, I just remember years and
years and years ago, people used to ask

(18:09):
me, how do you have time? How do
you have time? I didn't sleep.
So but it wasn't all about promoting the
show. It was running a business,
working,
and doing a podcast,
and kids. Right. You know? So Now now
it's like the number one question that I
get asked is, you know, can I make

(18:31):
money from the episode? No.
Yeah. 10¢.
See, that's part of what the conversation is
now. Right? And it's and because
what's happened is that people
have a need for that. And that's and
the whole thing of creating a side hustle
and creating multiple streams of income, all this
kind of stuff has has come into this

(18:53):
medium and has a has built expectations.
Yes. So if the expectations
are not fulfilled,
then people get disconnected. Someone's lying to them.
Well,
no. It's based on the individual's needs. Well,
okay. So if if you okay.

(19:13):
This is a tough conversation here. The market
has shifted towards
people building side hustles, and that's being heavily
promoted
on all these social platforms. Guess what side
hustles require?
Incredible heart. Who's making money on side hustle
advice? The people that are giving a side
hustle advice. Right. Right. Well, that's certainly true,

(19:34):
Todd. So, you know, so I
think I think we have to have this
reality check.
Well, that cuts both ways on this, Todd.
The reality check on what's possible versus the
reality check on what the hype is is
Well, that's that's completely disconnected. Spectrum. Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

(19:54):
So, you know
Yeah. They, you know, they don't realize you
know, I I go back to them realize
that,
you know, here's here's the thing. You you
and I have been in this a long
time. We didn't have Facebook, Twitter, or x.
We didn't have Instagram. We didn't have any
of this stuff in the beginning.
Talk and Nothing.

(20:16):
Even newer platforms that are coming out now
that are that are offering a complete different
content
mashed with e commerce.
We had nothing Yeah. In in the beginning.
And can you imagine
taking all this stuff away from those folks
now and say, now you need to you
need to build a show?

(20:36):
And and
and they they they wouldn't even
start.
Yeah.
It is now possible to launch a show.
I mean, I
I do it,
I try and do that with everybody I
work with, but it's
to launch with programmatic. Right? Yeah. So
so that that matches the expectation. Yeah. Yeah.

(20:57):
Until they until they see their 10¢ date
or Until they see the the actual check
that comes. But Or not even a check
until they get to $50.
But they think Yeah. They think they've been
enabled for monetization
That's where in the past, the conversation was,
well, you gotta start a show.
You gotta do, you know, 50 episodes before

(21:17):
you can even think about start starting to
make money was the conversation. You see you
see, Libsyn just made it so that you
can have zero downloads like Blueberry and Spreaker.
We've all been allowing our podcasters to do
programmatic
from the beginning, but, you know, we set
expectations. But it is kinda funny that they
included a calculator.
That's all they did. They did. Here's your

(21:39):
expected downloads will
give you Here's your much income. Here's your
expected revenue, you know. It's kind of like
the you you you have a calculator so
you can have the
the ugly baby discussion.
Right? Right. And,
so,
obviously, they're feeling the pressure to allow shows
to monetize
in in the very beginning.

(22:00):
But, you know, this this focus on monetization,
that's what actually, I'm not hearing that conversation.
I mean, I mean, really, like, 5% of
my discussions I have with podcasters.
That isn't the conversation I'm having.
You know, it continues to be growth.
And then for new podcasters,

(22:20):
it's a whole different it's very very little
about
monetization. So I think there's definitely these two
tiers,
and I think YouTubers are thinking, oh, I
gotta I gotta make money in the beginning.
Well, you do have to even on YouTube,
you have to put in some investment in,
producing episodes so you get qualified for the

(22:40):
organization. It's So it's not like starting out
right at the beginning. Right? So, you know,
if they if they want to this is
maybe that's the analogy you we should be
giving to podcasters.
Well, I wanna make money on episode one.
Well, you make money on YouTube and and
episode one. No.
You have to have four makes money on
episode one. Yeah. You have to make you
have to make 4,000

(23:00):
of whatever it is, whatever the qualifying is
that you have to have a thousand It's
actually
2,000 now. Oh, they lowered it. Yeah. But
I still have I still haven't qualified.
Yeah. And it's a thousand
I think it's
I think it's,
a thousand subscribers
and two thousand hours of watch time. So,

(23:22):
again,
Yeah.
So
if they can't qualify on YouTube,
then
so it's it's just, like, you know, so
I think we have to It's the same
thing with Spotify. So then we need to
really tell these podcasters
and whatever however you wanna call them, audio,
video, or whatever.
You you gotta build an audience.

(23:45):
You get you know, you you wanna make
this a side hustle? And side hustles don't
come with hustle.
So that's where this conversation loops back to
what I was saying earlier, Todd. What are
given what's happening with social media Yeah.
Given what we're seeing the perception of podcasting,
and this was in my outline too, was

(24:05):
was is increasingly being seen as part of
social media.
Mhmm. So there's like this Yeah. It's part
of the whole package.
Munging together
between what we see in social media
around audio and video,
primarily video on that side. So so that
may be contributing to this conversation

(24:26):
about how video is entering podcasting as we're
we're now looking at the media landscape,
as being influential
from a holistic
perspective now,
and that is driving this narrative. Because
I think the researchers look at YouTube and
they think of it as a as a
derivative of of the social media landscape.

(24:48):
Right? So now it's being lumped in with
podcasting,
and we keep increasingly talking about video, which
has strong linkages to social media. So that's
that's where this conversation is becoming a little
bit confused
is is that we may be talking about
two different things here, two different mediums of
sorts,

(25:09):
but we're but they're mushing together right now
in in people's perceptions from the audience side
primarily,
and it's slowly coming along from the creator
side, that that those YouTubers are thinking about
making an audio podcast, which taps into your
tool Yep.
Increasingly. So, you know, this perception is merging

(25:31):
together.
Yeah. I think that's what's causing this. I
think,
again, I just you know, I've I've tried
to let YouTube feed me some stuff here
in the last couple of weeks. I've I
haven't seen any long format
podcast. I've seen three minute shorts.
And oh, okay. That was interesting.
That's a clue right there. I've been I've

(25:53):
been increasingly playing with shorts too,
and I think
I see stronger numbers in shorts, but the
question gets back to is how does that
convert
into audience? I don't think for me, it
doesn't.
Well, I mean, it's hard to quantify that,
Todd, because there isn't any
I think that
the the shorts platforms need to give the

(26:15):
ability
better to have people
click to
to another longer
version of that That that is not that
is that's missing with the Alago.
Well, it is. And it's and it's missing
because a lot of these platforms want people
to
to only be on their platform. Of course.

(26:36):
They don't really make it easy to link
off to another platform like X penalizes
it if you put a link to something
in the original post.
So what they're incentivizing
is people uploading directly to their web. Of
course.
Right? And
that breaks
the whole model around.

(26:56):
Lock you in.
Podcasting. It breaks it. Yep. Lock you in.
And that's that's another aspect of this that
needs to be thought about too. You know,
there was talk at one point that x
was gonna support RSS feeds, but that has
never materialized. Of course, it would never will
materialize. They will they will not do it.

(27:16):
I guarantee you that if they do it,
I'd be shocked
because RSS is open, and open means,
you know, again, if you consume I guess
if they consume it on x, why would
they care?
If they wanna That's the bigger takeaway here,
Tom, is that like you've been saying all
these years, you you you don't really care

(27:36):
where you consume,
but but you do care where it comes
from. Right.
And I think that's that's the other part
of this, and that's what Spotify is trying
to break too is
is the RSS based delivery. So if we
could convince
x to ingest RSS feeds, then I think
that would be a win win,

(27:57):
in the bigger picture. But the bigger question
is who would actually host the media file?
Would it be x? Probably.
Yeah.
Potentially.
I mean,
just like what happens with YouTube today. Yeah.
Again, I think in the end, the narrative,
you know, the article Paul did is a
good

(28:18):
step. Yeah. And I think that there needs
to be more companies
that come out and promote
audio
as a
continued fantastic
and I've been doing it. I've been doing
it on LinkedIn. I've been doing it on
my personal website. I've been we've been talking
about it at Bluerary,

(28:40):
that
the
the education on the creator's side,
they need to understand
that
I think
all this video stuff aside,
I think what the industry has to really
come back and say is, okay. We understand
this is over here.
We understand there's opportunities. There's discovery.

(29:02):
There's listeners over there that you can gain.
But if you're coming in and getting started,
doing audio in the beginning is okay.
And actually, it's probably a good strategy to
start audio
Yeah. I would I would tend to agree
with that. You know, find your find your
sea legs, find your voice, build your content,

(29:25):
get your rapport,
start getting guest booked, and and if, you
know, and don't worry if you don't have
a face for video. Don't worry about this
other
stuff. You're gonna have a hard enough time
getting 10 good questions
and pacing to ask that guest
or go solo and have content to do
every week. There's a job in itself in

(29:48):
just getting show prep done.
That that that is that is more work
than
recording.
Yeah. But Todd, that's not necessarily
the strategy for
fast growing
shows though. That But but that's the that's
that's the real rub here. Well So what

(30:08):
is the proper strategy for growing
a an audio podcast? Then put you then
put money where your mouth is, hire a
team.
If you want a fast growing,
you're gonna have to have three, four, five
people
that are doing all of this stuff. Again,
but I don't think exactly what the big
creators are doing, Todd, and that's why they're
they're being successful

(30:28):
and growing. And that's why small creators are
saying, do I even wanna do this?
Well,
I do remember a time,
not too long ago when
there was a few
creators that were that were discouraging people from

(30:50):
starting a podcast.
Well, there there's a person on on Facebook
right now in one of the popular groups
Right. That says, this is what he said.
If you're not doing video, what are you
trying to hide?
What do you mean trying to hide? He's
making an accusation
that because you're not doing video, you have
something to hide. And I thought, what an

(31:11):
asshole.
What an absolute asshole
saying, what do you what do you have
to hide? Make an accusation
that,
you know,
because you're only doing audio, have something to
hide. What you're gonna tell that to the
65 year old grandma that's recording a podcast?
Are you gonna say that to a woman

(31:32):
that's,
you know, living in a foreign country that
don't want her face to be seen? Are
you gonna say that to you know, there's
just so many variables.
It's wrong.
And it's There is another way of looking
at that, and that's that's
if those people don't want
to

(31:52):
to to do that, it's certainly their their
choice not to do that. But he's he's
making this accusation
in a podcast
Facebook group,
and
people are having the feeling like they have
to defend themselves.
Yeah. Of course. And I'm like, why why
I'm not gonna defend myself. I've been doing
video, but if someone doesn't wanna do video,

(32:12):
I said, it's my choice. It's my show.
PacSsan.
You know? So
I I just
you know? I think as the end the
key in the industry is we have to
just it's simple.
It's very simple.
Audio is still
incredibly viable,
being build an incredible audience. It's gonna take
work,

(32:33):
lots of work.
You're gonna have to do all the things.
You gotta you're gonna have to be pre
production, production, post production, social
promotion,
email
newsletter sender,
clip creator. You gotta do all these things.
You got to.
That hasn't changed from ten years ago. Yeah.

(32:54):
I agree with that. Yeah. Definitely. Hasn't changed.
It's the same.
It hasn't made. I mean,
I was hoping by now it would be
easier to get all this stuff set up,
but it's not. Because It is easier. It's
it's,
well, it's it's pretty fragmented.
And, actually, I think of the AI stuff.
I I think AI has added a lot

(33:15):
of work. Well, it
I mean, it saves a little bit, but
it's also adds
adds stuff. We've done stopwatch testing
Yeah. From a just pure production standpoint.
Right. It's it's it's quicker. When it comes
to social, no. What it's added
what it's added is before, I I I

(33:36):
couldn't do shorts. I couldn't.
I just didn't have time. Question is is
it is it better, though?
Oh, I think so. But is it Oh,
we're seeing huge better than what a human
would do. Oh, I'm not talking about the
recording of the content. I'm just No. No.
No. I'm talking about all of the I'm
just like you, Todd. I'm talking about, like,
the preproduction,

(33:57):
postproduction
type of AI work. From a You
right. And I think it goes back to
what I said before. You record for your
audience. You do the postproduction
work for Google and the AI crawlers.
In that regard, absolutely, it's better
for those that are doing it. Better or
just more efficient?
Higher quality key

(34:18):
most you you know, for years, I used
to say, god, Rob. And they put one
line as a a horrible episode title and
one paragraph of show notes.
You know, now now at least we're getting
comprehensive show notes. We're getting transcripts.
We're getting
media that has been normalized.

(34:39):
You know, there's four or five things that
have drastically
improved.
Mhmm. So what have we done? We've went
from
absolute
under under utilization of what you could have
done if you'd have done it manually to
now being just, I mean, primo
in the titling and the and the made
of content and, you know, the transcripts and

(35:01):
the chapters and all that stuff
is just superb.
Does it Right. Does it help the audio
content? Well, that's up to the creator. Right?
You know? But I think
it can,
being that there is, you know, probably an
outline and they can help themselves stay
on track and and follow a pattern with

(35:23):
the show.
But,
you know, the social piece, what it's done
is I would have never, before AI, never
made clips, never made shorts, never done any
of that. I wouldn't have.
Yeah. It could be automated to some degree
now. Well, you still have to hand touch
it. Because the Opus clips came in
uniform. You still have to touch it. You

(35:44):
know? You you Well, if you're not doing
any
any video, then that's not even an option
for you.
So Right. But we we made clipping available
for just pure audio podcasters. There's an image
put up and you you know? Oh, there
is? Yeah. Yeah. So we've got all that
if you're you're not doing any video. So
the the key there is is now at
least they can spend the fifteen minutes if

(36:05):
they choose, which makes it longer
because we've given some tools to be able
to do clips,
but not everyone does. Some people just don't
put their content up.
So Yeah. I wonder if we'll ever get
to a point, Todd, where well, I guess
that's what you're you're you're doing there, but
it's it's creating a clip,
in a video, but it's just audio. Right?

(36:25):
Right. Right. So you have, like, maybe a
motion graphic or something like that. Something similar
to Headliner, what Headliner does with pure audio.
Yeah. But is that effective though is the
question? Oh, yeah. It's just as effective as
anything else because it goes up on Twitter
and Facebook and, you know, it gets place.
You know? But it gets it's as effective

(36:46):
as a as a I don't know. I
don't video? I'm sure again, it all depends
on how many people are actually tuning into
your social. So there's a whole bunch of
variables,
you know.
It it really it really depends.
Again, higher the content If you were to
post post a motion graphics audio to TikTok,

(37:07):
do you think it has the potential to
get the same amount of engagement?
Yes.
You know why? Because someone's gonna flip in
TikTok and not even know that you're hitting
your they're not seeking you out in TikTok.
You just show up.
Well, also also, a lot of people have
their audio turned off.
Oh, that that's we give the we give

(37:29):
the closed caption. So
Yeah. No. I mean Yeah. That's what I'm
talking about is that, I mean, a lot
of people will have their audio Yeah. So
muted. The primary way out. All it sees
is the text on the screen. Yeah. We
have that set up.
Yeah. Yeah. So but, again, I I if
you only have 10 followers on TikTok
You're not gonna get that article. Right. You

(37:51):
know? So
it's all relative.
Yeah. But,
you know, being that the audience is growing
and and podcasting, so,
you know, like,
more opportunity for the shows that are there.
For sure.
Yeah. I was looking at that,

(38:12):
that Signal Hill article, Todd. I don't know
if you have it up that you can
pull up on the screen, but it is
a little bit of a confusing message
on here based on
what what I'm seeing. Because the slide that
it has up up here
shows in April of twenty twenty five
that
YouTube has the highest

(38:33):
percentage
of weekly podcast consumers
who use the platform
He's not he he's he's not
podcast consumption. His argument is,
essentially, is that YouTube doesn't own it all.
Well, yeah. I'm just looking at these two
slides. So and then the next one down,
it says most used podcast

(38:55):
platform. So we have,
Oh, yeah. And then right below says a
majority, 61%
of podcast consumers use
other
I agree with that. Platforms
other than YouTube most often.
Yeah. Makes sense.
So
and that's

(39:16):
that's kind of
opposite of what the slide above it says.
No. What they're what they're what they're saying
here is is that
percentage weekly podcasts who use platforms the most.
So YouTube, Spotify, and Apple. So Apple together
was
they're low. This is incredibly low. We're of
course, we don't compare YouTube.

(39:38):
They said 29%
and
YouTube is 39%.
Well, where's the rest? That's all others. That's
what they're referring to. Where where's where's the
29%?
Okay. So 30
excuse me. 21
plus eight
is 29%.
Oh, yeah. Right. Okay. So if you think
about 39,

(39:58):
39%
on YouTube Yeah. And 29%
on other Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Apple. And
then you have what's my math here? Let
me do the my fuzzy math. Set what
is that? 78?
What's that number total? Grand total.
Anyway, so in the end, there's a whole
bunch of other listing happening somewhere else.

(40:20):
It's just not on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
It's on Overcast, Pocketcast.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's where they
get the 61.
Oh, I see what you're saying. That's where
the remaining
percentage comes in. Okay.
So all all the other listening platforms like
Overcast
Yeah.
And Pocketcast and all all those

(40:41):
are part of the 61%.
And it's, you know, it's it's half a
percent.
You know, it's it's it's
point 25%.
Or one and a half percent.
You know, and there's a, you know, 100
of those that have, you know, less than
1%. Right.
Right. You know,
so there's probably more.
But
I think the argument here is

(41:03):
is that
there's a distribution
of listeners
Right.
And viewers or whatever you wanna say.
And So if if you're not doing something
see, this is the conversation about growth. Right?
Is is if you're not doing
YouTube, then you're missing out

(41:23):
on 39
possible percent of According to according to this
Right. And then in the opposite, it could
be said if you're just doing YouTube. You're
missing 61
of the of the audience. So, you know,
so it goes both ways.
Well, if you're only doing
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. If you're only doing
YouTube.
But, you know, I think I agree with

(41:44):
what, you know, Adam and some others have
said here recently is that
this will work itself out, but we're gonna
have to give it a couple of years
because there's going to be
all of these folks that have been sold
this bill of goods,
and they're gonna go over there and figure
out, number one, it's hard.

(42:04):
Number two, you're not gonna get monetized.
And guess what? Guess what it is in
audio podcasting?
It's hard.
You're not gonna get monetized.
So
it's,
you know, it's
Yeah.
I mean,
yes. But that's that's a that's kind of
a failure mentality though, isn't it? Well,

(42:27):
it has nothing has changed.
No. I know.
But but if you're ambitious and you wanna
create a success for yourself, you probably don't
think like that. Well, if you're ambitious and
you wanna be a success for yourself, then
you will work the hours and put in
the time required to be successful.
You won't
be you won't be a,

(42:48):
is there a word?
You won't be a side okay. Don't I
know I may get destroyed here. Don't be
a side hustle bro
that isn't able to make it with a
side hustle.
If everyone can make it with a side
hustle, no one would have a regular job.
Well, that may be that may be the

(43:09):
future we're heading into, Todd, with AI. Rob,
I I have a a job.
I know, Todd. And
But but you look look to the future,
nobody may have a job. Yeah. Yeah. That
again,
there So what's the alternative for us? I
I I If you look look out two
to five years from now, all of us

(43:30):
may have to create Well side hustles at
some point. Well, I I I'll use the
word that Google said. I I ain't believe
I heard this more than two years ago.
Mhmm. There's the people that are the creative
types. They're gonna be super good. They're gonna
be great. There's the subject matter experts. They're
gonna be super great. They're good. It's a
month people in the middle that does the
thunking. They're screwed.

(43:53):
Case in point, I've got an employee.
I don't know. Did I tell you on
this in the last show? I've got an
employee.
She's getting
I won't say her age, but she's ready
to spend more time with her grandkids.
Oh, got it. Yeah. And,
she came to us and said, hey. I
don't wanna do full time anymore. I wanna
knock back to thirty five hours.

(44:15):
Right. And,
and
we only work.
We actually pay our employees for forty hours
for thirty six hours of work anyway.
So she wanted maybe she went back to
thirty hours. But, anyway, she wanted to go
back
to less hours.
And she says, I may wanna get the
work done anyway because I'm using AI and
we're, you know, we're saving we're just being

(44:36):
more effective.
And
so, essentially,
even though she's rolled back her time,
we're we're essentially
getting about the same performance,
with her having to work less hours.
And,
I didn't plan it that way. It's just

(44:57):
kinda the way it happened. So,
but she's happy. She doesn't have to be
in meetings that we're doing every day of
the week. You know? She sees what her
tasks are in Jira and, you know, it
it it works out. So
AI is gonna have an effect
for sure.
I think it'll have a big effect.

(45:18):
But Apple and I don't know about Apple
and what they announced.
To me, it's just
it was it was good that Colin got
a shout out,
with his app. He got a
whatever, five seconds or ten seconds or whatever
it was.
His app Colin who?
I'm trying to think of his

(45:39):
last name.
Gray?
Colin Gray. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So,
So what was his app? His app is,
Altuo.
Don't holy crap. Oh, yeah. Altuo. Yeah. So

(46:00):
he got a call out during the WWC
keynote.
And,
so I think it's
Alto. I think Alto. Yeah. I Right. Yeah.
But, you know, good to him. Yeah. Colin,
you know, he's one of these unsung heroes.
He drove us an incredible amount of business
in his early days of
podcasting. He was one of our top affiliates

(46:21):
for a number of years. And then he's
out of The UK. Yeah. Now he's kinda
doing his own thing. So I'm I'm sexually
happy for him
and and and what he got there. But,
you know, so they've done some stuff.
You got a list here. Enhanced dialogue, custom
playback speeds. Woo hoo. Marco I think there

(46:43):
was a someone kinda did a giggle giggle
that Marco's worried now because of the custom
playback speeds.
Don't listen at 1.2 or 1.5.
It'll make you,
there is some
truth to this. Don't don't laugh at me.
If you listen to shows faster than one
time low speed,
it can cause
higher levels in anxiety.

(47:05):
So
just be careful. Get stressed out by it.
Oh, I can't do it. I do it.
It you know, it's just like, like, drink
five cups of coffee and Yeah. You know?
So It's just too much. Yeah. You're trying
to trying to live your life and not
get Doing a mic doing mic routing.
Oh, the AirPods. Please don't record a podcast

(47:27):
with AirPods.
But, you know, some will. It's okay. Well,
it's yeah. I think that the mic routing
is that you can assign a different microphone
to each app or a different app. Mhmm.
Right? You know, so if you have a
If it's preconfigured,
you don't have to change it.

(47:47):
Correct. So So what's happening is is they're
making for those of you that are Mac
users,
the iPad in iOS 26 is gonna have
a departure. It's gonna be more like the
desktop or your laptop
than it is like the iPhone.
So they're they're aligning them much, much closer
together,
and you'll have the kind of similar experience.

(48:09):
But this glass thing that they're doing, it's
got me worried. You know?
They're smart. We'll see what happens. Big, revolution
around this glass thing. Yeah. It's just
it's a UI thing.
It's just a make it's is it just
a gimmick? Yeah. I think it's still make
it try to look pretty.
Who knows?
It's just a gimmick. I don't I don't

(48:30):
stare I I just want my phone to
be usable.
I don't need a gimmick.
You know, let me get to my email
quicker. Let me get to my text message.
You know?
Yeah. I mean, when's Apple gonna actually come
out with anything that's innovative?
I don't see anything on this list that
I consider to be innovative.
A lot of stuff that Android's already done,

(48:51):
but
they trade feature stuff all the time.
Yeah. I know that,
with,
Tim Cook's been under a little bit of
external pressure,
by the Apple Apple community
to resign.
Oh, that's interesting.
Why is that?

(49:12):
Well, because Apple seems to
be stuck.
They're not really announcing any any new products.
They're not really announcing anything that
was like what they used to do when
Steve Jobs was in charge. Right? Where they
would come out with a new device or
a new platform that was changing the game.
You know what I you know what I

(49:33):
think the majority? Small updates. It's just small
little changes is all that they announce. I
bet you if we could get inside data
to the usage of,
iPhone or an Android, I bet you it
would be broken down into about five things.
Taking pictures
Yeah. Sending SMS messages
Right. Talking on Facebook,

(49:54):
and listening to music,
I think, and maybe some games.
What else podcasts. And some podcasts.
But what else are people using their phones
for?
Most people are not I mean, Todd, I
mean, just think about the app
infrastructure.
Right? And also,

(50:14):
also contrast that
to what's going on with AI.
Apple seems to not get
or understand or know
how to deploy AI,
which is that's gonna hurt them. Well Actually,
I sold all my stock or actually most
of my stock in Apple because I've I've
kind of lost faith in the company. I

(50:36):
think what they're also seeing is we have
to be really careful even internally in the
company. We scrutinize
everything
that's an output
of AI. And invariably,
we will find
and when we're editing documents, we will find
one or two things typically that is wrong.

(50:56):
And,
you know, we have to be real careful
that we don't get into this sing song
type of
publishing a content that all looks the same,
has so we have to really work hard
at it. So
my thought maybe is is that Apple said,
well, it's not ready.
And, you know, they're pretty particular about what
they put out or

(51:17):
or they're just simply behind.
And they move slow. It's as evident in
the podcast
app. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
And
they didn't add the toggle between audio and
video
No. This time. No. I I didn't. I
if we get that, it'll be two years.

(51:40):
Well, that speaks to the problem here, Todd.
Well, you know, and and yet I look
at even internally at my company. I can
only turn stuff out. So if I'm a
small company and I got a small dev
team,
believe it or not, the Apple Podcast team
has a
relatively
in my understanding,
and I might be wrong because I might
be speaking out of my butt here,

(52:02):
but they have a relatively
small time share of amount of
time the devs dev utilization they get on
the Apple Podcast app. There's not I don't
think there's dedicated programmers for the Apple Podcasts.
Yeah. I don't think so. Maybe I you
know, this is my hypothesis.
No. I'm sure there's not. I mean, that's

(52:22):
just one of the apps that the team
Yeah.
Updates occasionally.
But well, that's something I've got the team
looking into it. We had, an unusual
spike in Apple Podcasts utilization
in May.
They were they had a ten ten ten
point jump off of average,
and I got the team digging into

(52:45):
why.
And
In the usage or the downloads? In the
in the percentage of, usage. And, you know,
they went from 49 to 59.
And,
you know, usually, we'll see, you know, hover
two or three points.
But,
I got one of my devs looking into
it figuring out where did this bump come

(53:05):
from.
Yeah. Because it seems like, you know,
some of these things that Apple add added
were
should be pretty low on the priority
as far
as features to add to any any platform.
I mean, it's like, look look at, you
know, like the custom icons and
and stuff like that, you know, with different

(53:27):
colors. Some of that stuff is just easy.
It's easy. It's low hanging fruit.
It's just easy. It's easy to do.
So, you know, maybe, you know, I've got
all kinds of I have this short list
of, like, three hours of coding time.
Auto sleep
detection, is that really a feature that anybody

(53:48):
really cares about? I don't You see what
I have? You see what I have here?
I have my fly swatter.
I got a fly that's been dye bombing
me for two days. I thought to tell
you you
were talking about bug killing in,
in Apple's Club. I have I have I
have a fly that's been dive bombing for
two days. He
he doesn't know it yet. Either time or

(54:09):
I will get him with the fly swatter.
And I've had a shower today.
So
yeah. You have the killer instinct, Todd. Yes.
And the key is you have to be
careful where you slap around here because I
may end up jacking the switcher and then
it will show some something weird on my
screen. So who knows? Yeah. Or my audio
will go mute all of a sudden. Yeah.

(54:29):
Hey. By the way, so what's going on
with the podcast hall of fame?
Well, it's,
ramping back up. So I'm trying to get
it, you know. I've done some calls with
the
the Podfest folks, and we're
strategizing about how we wanna move forward. So
that's the that's the stage that we're at.
I know we're about six months out now.

(54:52):
So this is the kickoff time to start
gathering
any new nominations
for consideration.
Oh, so
who should And so should they email you?
If you wanna send me an email, that's
fine. [e-mail].
And I'd be happy to
to consider nominations at this point and to

(55:15):
add to the pool of
of folks. You know, I haven't publicly
released the
list of the current
nominations that are in the list? Have we
done that before?
I've never done that before. Are you going
to do that this year? That I might
might consider doing that just so people know
who's in the list or not.

(55:36):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't
think that What's your thought about that, Todd?
I don't think it would hurt.
Transparency
is always good.
Yeah. And then what it would do is
it would cause people to say, how come
he or she is not on the list?
But you also have to make sure you
put the criteria there on what the qualifications

(55:58):
are to get on the list.
Oh, that's already on the website. Oh, okay.
So Yeah. Yeah. So
well, the Academy Awards,
they always say who the nominees
are.
Yeah. I I
It can be a pretty long I mean,

(56:19):
I think it's currently probably
close to probably 80 names so far. So,
you know, I mean, it might help those
that are considering
to nominate someone to know who's already nominated.
Right? So they don't
so I don't get a bunch of emails
from people saying, well, this person
Yeah. Should be inducted and and but they're
already

(56:39):
on the list. So the challenge then is
is when someone knows they're on the list,
because I don't know if people even know
they're on the list.
There's there's probably most of them on the
list probably don't even know. Right. So if
they know know they're on the list, then
it could end up being
campaigns
of
emails to the other

(57:01):
the, say, hey. Please vote for me. Here's
who I
am. I will And I also want to
expand the pool of voters too.
So Yeah. Then how do you do that?
Now who who would you invite?
There has to be some criteria
to that.

(57:24):
Yeah.
You know, because
Yeah. I haven't actually specified that, so I
don't even wanna say it. Yeah. And again,
how do you come up with that list?
You know?
Yeah. Because currently, the only voters that exist
in the hall of fame are people that
have already been inducted. Because let's and I
I'm just I'm just gonna use a name

(57:45):
here, and let's say you invited James Kridlin
to vote.
Then
could he
if he gets on the list,
he would be then probably excluded from being
able to vote.
So how do you then,
you know, there's the problem
if you have Well I don't know. You
know, I'm just I think it's clear that

(58:05):
it's I mean, you can say in the
rules you can't vote for yourself,
but
yeah.
So I think that's that's probably covered by
that. Here's here's the guarantee.
Someone would be pissed off no matter what.
Of course.
Well, that's just a given, Todd.
I mean, because I made a lot of

(58:26):
lot of statements,
last year that I was gonna expand it
internationally.
Yeah. And so the only way that I
can see that I can actually accomplish that
is Is to get some other people. Voters.
Oh.
And to people outside of The US too.
Not so much I mean, most of the
people that
are voting today are are people in The
US. So what we should actually have is

(58:48):
another hall of fame in London
associated with the podcast show. Doesn't have to
be as a big of a deal, but
there could be
a you look at James. He got recognized
by the
Academy of Podcasters,
and I don't know how that happened.
Like, you know, that that was kind of

(59:08):
outside.
Begin, I'd you know, he deserves it. But
again, then what,
you know, what criteria,
you know, because it'd be because there's a
lot of people that should be in the
hall of fame that just there were so
backlogged.
Yeah.
And if you're gonna open up international, there
should be some maybe it's not as a
grand of event,

(59:30):
but figure something out where you they can
have an interview that tells their story that's
so important
that happens during the award ceremony. That's the
true value of
hearing these people's stories. That's the incredible part
about the people that are actually nominated,
that win you know, basically, they're the winners

(59:50):
or don't want the winners, but, you know,
who makes the who makes up the inductees,
those stories they tell. And you would not
want to discount the inductees telling their story,
but it'd be nice if we could maybe
start in Europe.
Yeah. I was thinking about this just, like,

(01:00:10):
a couple weeks ago that,
there isn't a lot of examples
of of an event like the podcast hall
of fame that is truly international. Right. I
know that there's there's a Hollywood
kind of awards
ceremony. I think it's the international press,
awards event that happens down in L. A.

(01:00:33):
Every year, which is international.
The other element of this too, is that
sure,
we we we can have nominees
that are from
Europe and from
Asia and all that kind of stuff that
can be added to the list. But the
question gets back to is, will those people
actually
travel to to accept their awards anyway?

(01:00:54):
So so those people could, I guess, do
a video. So the the maybe the opportunity
is
you have a London event for people in
Europe,
then you have
something in Australia that someone down there can
some event that happens in Australia, the people
that deserve to be and maybe it's Australian

(01:01:14):
Podcast Hall of Fame.
Right. They have four or five
people that are Southeast Asia's Podcast Hall Of
Fame. And, you know, so maybe it's, you
know, you have Asia. You can't do it
all in one go, but maybe you could
do Australian. You can do maybe Australia and
New Zealand.
And because I don't know a lot of
podcasts out in New Zealand, but mostly Australia.

(01:01:35):
But maybe you could do
because I'm sure there's a you know, down
there, they have their own I don't know
the characters in Australia, but James and other
folks do. So,
you may have to do like Gary did
the year. So, okay. Here's the five people
that we're gonna induct in Australia,
or give me the list.
Yeah. I suppose I mean,

(01:01:55):
if it was set up like,
a small group in Australia
organized a, you know, local in person hall
of fame event. Right? So it isn't like,
you know, every event has to be organized
from here necessarily
and and have that scattered around the the
world, like in Asia. Mhmm. You can have

(01:02:16):
one in Asia and Malaysia or
or a place like that that covers that
part of the world,
and then have one down in Australia that
covers that
area down there, which isn't that far away.
And I think you honor them all the
same. You put them on the podcast hall
of fame site by region,
and maybe it's not even by region. Maybe

(01:02:37):
it's just
they're in the list.
I I I think it's doable. It's just
not gonna be maybe done the way
from a presentation wise that you want, but
there's just so many deserving questions. Maybe it's,
it's something that I can get into a
partnership with the podcast show to put on
in London Yeah. To cover

(01:02:57):
cover Europe. But they don't have a well,
they have stage events, so maybe it can
be yeah. You know?
So Yeah. So I I mean, it would
still be the podcast hall of fame. It
just would be like a like, almost like
a chapter of the event. And those those
trophies aren't cheap, so they would take some
money.

(01:03:18):
Oh, yeah. Well do it. You know?
I plan on trying trying to obtain more
sponsorships
this year. Because I think those trophies are,
like, $400
a piece.
I don't know that they I think that's
what I paid for my replacement was $4.03
70.
Yeah.
But Okay. Anyways. Yeah. I think it's definitely
in that 300. Yeah. They're definitely they're a

(01:03:40):
rock.
But anyways Well, they're they're they're crystal. Yeah.
So right? It causes my causes my, my
Yeah. You can see it on the causes
causes the shelf to sag.
Right. Or you can see mine up here.
Yeah. Your your shelf is sagging too. Oh,
yes.
I don't think it's that. You need an
extra 10 pounds on the airline to go

(01:04:01):
home. Right.
So So I think that, you know, I'm
gonna
start I'm gonna update the website here soon,
and and I'll I'll just put up the
the list of names
of nominees in there, and I'll put out
a press release. And
and we will start out there. And then,
at the bottom of that that announcement,

(01:04:22):
I'll say, you know, if if you think
that some person that you know or the
person
thinks that they qualify for for consideration of
of a nomination,
and to be potentially included, then send me
an email. And I'd be happy to do
that. And if I can add a form
somewhere I think a form you could do

(01:04:42):
that too. To collect the information because we
we don't know everybody.
Right. And good bios too from, you know,
get you Well, I did that for last
year. Actually, I
I use an electronic,
voting
system. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I used last
year.
And I was able to put in photographs
and bios into And some of the people

(01:05:04):
I had know who idea who they were.
Yeah. And that's the challenge right there, Todd,
is that if we if we get people
into,
the nomination list that nobody's ever heard of
before, right,
then they're never gonna vote for them. Right.
Right?
So
and even even putting a bio in there
may not get them to vote for them.
So If if if everyone in the group

(01:05:25):
because we have a lot of people there,
not you know, I think
they should at least be known.
Yeah. But, again, some people have done some
incredible stuff that are not known.
Right. And I think it may be
just to get on the nomination
for consideration
should be
a a perceived

(01:05:46):
kind of accomplishment.
And maybe there needs to be,
so many people that actually prove that person
to get on the nomination list.
Maybe there needs to be, like,
five, six, seven, ten people to review the
people that are gonna be on the and,
you know, I hate to do that. Yeah.
It should be probably the board. Yeah. I

(01:06:06):
think so. Yeah.
You know? And and maybe it only takes,
you know, a simple a simple majority, three
out of five or whatever the number is.
Okay. You know? I because it because, you
know, if as long as there's a bio,
and then we can all do our own
due diligence, go out on Google and look
their shows up or whatever they've done,

(01:06:27):
and someone may be able to vouch for
somebody too. They may say, oh, yeah. My
god. Look what that individual has done.
They've done this, this, this, this, and this.
Yeah. I think for any any new
nominees
for consideration,
I think that should be the
the process. And we don't wanna exclude anybody.
We wanna give as much benefit of the

(01:06:47):
doubt as possible, but
you you start showing the list.
Next thing you know, you're gonna have a
100 people that say, I,
talk about not on there.
So, you know, that and and then Yeah.
And then it makes a complicated It does.
Situation
for for the voting block of people
that have to sift through, you know, two

(01:07:08):
or 300 names or something. And if there's
a public list of who's
on and who's been accepted,
then the person's gonna be pissed. If they're
not accepted, well, look at them. They're all
biased. And so there's no
there's no perfect
there's no perfect solution.
Yeah. It's the same thing with sports, Todd.
There's winners and losers.

(01:07:29):
There's no so anyway, we're already over. Quick
take.
Best advice for new creators?
I think my best advice is is that,
you know, start where you can. Yes.
Start
audio.
I I would consider just audio at the
beginning,
but don't

(01:07:50):
lock your mind out of trying to try
and create
some some shorts that are just created on
your mobile phone.
And and and explore that and see if
that makes sense for you. And
and but create a, you know, as compelling
of an audio experience and audio program as
you can for your genre and your show
and create terrific graphics. And

(01:08:13):
and your cover art is so important now.
What's your what's the title? What's the mission
of the show? What are you trying to
do? And then in the podcast itself
and we're seeing this trend line also in
in YouTube too. It's not all about these
polished productions.
There's this this movement that's going on around
just like what I I asked to do

(01:08:33):
in this episode today, Todd, was not play
any intro music. Right? Let's just it's just
us. Right? Let's just jump in, create the
content, and then we get out of here,
not with a bunch of You don't you
mean you don't want any of this? Welcome
to
Yeah. I mean, it's it's unnecessary.
And especially in the the age that we're

(01:08:54):
in right now is that
the only time that you should do that
is if there's some sort of a tease
in there, right, about what's what the listener
is gonna get by listening or viewing this.
Right? That is like teasing you and you're
increasingly seeing that in the content that's being
produced on YouTube.
And I've been doing it in my audio

(01:09:15):
podcast for years. Well, I'll say, well, these
are the topics in the show today
and then say, please keep listening. And that
that's what I'd like to do with this
show too is is to tease the topics
that we're gonna talk about on the show
and be disciplined and stick to it. Right?
So As and cover those at least. I
mean, we we can expand beyond that if
we want. But So my my best advice

(01:09:35):
is just please start.
Don't listen to any of this advice that's
out here. And by the way,
Yeah. The Felix said in
the the chat, he said, Canada, don't forget
about Canada for hall of fame. They're included.
Canada's
already
included in
the nomination stacks. The US and Canada are
included already for hall of fame.

(01:09:57):
Yeah. And and and to be fair, we
we need to consider Mexico too. Sure. So
and and and then there's, of course, there's
South America too, which, Todd, you and I
both know is huge in podcasting. You need
someone that can speak Portuguese to hand run
run that up. Right. Right. So It's not
us, Todd. Alright. So we we didn't go
we went 70, so we're we're gonna get

(01:10:18):
out of here.
And Well, we had a lot to talk
about. It was, like, two weeks. Well, I've
I've I've got a you you did you
listen to the last show I recorded?
I did. Okay. Good.
Is that why you're back? Because I I
didn't dog you in the in the commentary.
Wasn't that as much as I was just
kind of the posing of the question. Should

(01:10:40):
we continue doing this show? Is it relevant
to people? And
and it also, you know, maybe is a
it is a little bit of a reset
for us, right, as we think about what
we're doing with this show and what the
flow of it and how it works and
how it conforms into the expectations in the
market today. So the stuff I didn't cover,
that we didn't cover, that you let us

(01:11:00):
know if you want us to cover
There's a lot. Would sound profitable
on their attention and trust.
Just go look at their presentation.
Tom can explain it better than we can.
There's a bunch of stuff. Companies I've never
heard of that got IB certified
and some benchmarks that are out there on
promo code utilization that I completely disagree with.

(01:11:25):
And anyway Are you getting pulled into the
the the whole, kind of confusing conversation
around Substack
No. That's happening in in in the podcasting
space right now? No.
I've noticed that there's some people that are
hosting their podcast on Substack. Oh, great.
So Substack has has built a very confusing

(01:11:47):
podcasting tool. It's been there for a long
time.
Well, I yeah.
They've been promoting it more here lately, and
I've seen some large creators get in there
and do something with it. And I'm like
I'm, like, a little bit,
confused that they've been promoting it so heavily,
but in my perception, it's not really all
that great. So it's like

(01:12:09):
it's a little bit like what happened with
SoundCloud.
Right?
Where
they they they promoted something, they offered it,
a lot of people adopted it, but yet
it just never
improved.
It's it's just and not to dog them,
but there was a site that launched called
Proxy Feed that were promoting how you could

(01:12:29):
have all these podcasting two point o features
if you moved over there
and use them. And I went on their
website. They only have one podcasting two point
o feature implemented.
And I'm like, oh, okay. I guess that's
all it took to make the claim, Todd.
Yeah.
So,
not that we've done anything like that at
all with our service. So, you you you

(01:12:50):
know, it's it's okay.
I just kinda had to giggle. It was
all promoting about podcasting two point o, and
there was they gotta start somewhere. So,
proxy feed, just go over and look at
podcast mirror, tell us what else we should
do. But they are mapping subdomains, so that's
that's smart.
Okay.
[e-mail],

(01:13:13):
and, my mastodon is at [e-mail].
Rob? Alright. I'm on I'm on x at
rob greenley
rob greenley dot
com is the primary places to I meet.
And then also we're working on a new
podcast, Todd. So
so I may
shut down some of the other things that

(01:13:34):
I'm I've been working on because I've got
too many podcasts and really put my energy
into a new show. So,
that's kind of kind of the direction that
I'm going. And I've got more things that
I wanna, you know, announce over the next
few weeks
in regards to that and some other things
that I've been getting involved in. So it's
just,

(01:13:55):
yeah,
take it as it comes. And the hall
of fame is,
is, is building too. And I'm going to
be doing some
other things with with that as well. So
hopefully, it's gonna be
gonna be a compelling thing this year. Sounds
like a new job.
Kind of.
The It's more of a

(01:14:16):
like a cofounder type of Oh, okay. Type
of a relationship.
The, I am doing some additional shows. We
just been kinda working on them, and, they
are in Apple Podcast,
but they are
originate on YouTube and then they it's called
the podcast news and podcast myth of podcast.
So
I'm trying to put out one a week,

(01:14:37):
five minutes.
It's about the length of it. And,
so anything we're putting on YouTube right now
is also coming in as
an audio podcast. So
we're staying true to using our own tools,
drinking our own Kool Aid.
Alright, everyone. Thanks for being here. We you
know, we're trying to get to an hour
and a half. We're an hour sixteen, so
let's get out of here. See Alright. Let's

(01:14:59):
see everybody. Thanks. We'll see you next time.
Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye.