June 7, 2023 • 37 mins
Do you know about the ghost pots lurking in the Long Island Sound? Join us as we dive into this serious issue with our expert guest, Scott Curitolo Wagamon, a senior resource educator at Cornell Cooperative Extension in Suffolk County and director of the Fisheries Department. Scott sheds light on the lobster die-off of 1999-2000 and how the derelict lobster program was created to help remove these ghost pots, which have a major impact on the fishing industry.
In this eye-opening discussion, we explore the impact of ghost pots on the blackfish fishery of Long Island Sound and how it's led to increased prices and a targeted fishery. Scott shares the challenges of finding qualified lobstermen and the potential for new technology to address the problem, as well as the importance of managing the blackfish fishery to ensure a healthy population.
Finally, we delve into the complexities of the Long Island Sound recreational fishing industry and the role of ghost pots on the blackfish fishery. Discover how decisions made by the Mid-Atlantic Council and Southern Atlantic Council have altered the size and number of fish subject to harvest restrictions. Scott also gives us a glimpse into the striped bass specific project and strategies to protect this precious resource for anglers. So, tune in and learn how we can all support the recreational fishing industry in combating the ghost pots menace.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Scocca (00:00):
Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of
the New York Fishing Podcast.
Today we will be talking aboutthe ghost pots which are
aligning the Long Island Sound.
This is a serious issue.
There are estimated to bebetween 800,000 and 1.3 million
(00:22):
of these pots, most of whichwere left behind after the
collapse of the lobster.
So, while everyone is gettingready to get out fishing which I
hope you're doing, becausethings have been pretty hot this
week I want you to listen in onthis ghost pot issue because
(00:44):
we're going to need folks tohelp us get these things out of
the Long Island Sound.
I'd like to introduce our guest,scott Curitolo Wagamon.
He is a senior resourceeducator at Cornell Cooperative
Extension in Suffolk County andis the director of fisheries of
(01:06):
the fisheries department withinthe marine program.
This guest is exciting to me inthat he's like looking at all
these things that I'm alwaysconcerned with when it comes to
fisheries management and justour overall fisheries.
So, scott, please explain topeople how what you do is
(01:29):
different in that you actuallyyour hands on.
You know, the biggest, thebiggest complaint most anglers
have is that they're gettingdirections from people's sitting
behind a desk.
You know, so I mean, you'reactually hands on.
So if you could explain to thefolks what you do and what your
(01:51):
team does.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (01:53):
Yeah, certainly, and thanks for having
me on the podcast, george.
It's an honor I'm having a fewof them, you know very excited
to be here and glad you invitedme.
So part of what we do goes backto the cooperative extension
system itself.
Each of the counties within NewYork has a cooperative
(02:17):
extension, Cornell being a landgrant university for New York,
and most of the cooperativeextensions deal with
horticulture, agriculture, someenvironmental problems.
And then 30 odd years ago someresearchers realized that you
(02:39):
know, kind of the same sort ofissues they were seeing in the
agriculture industry could bedirectly related to things in
the fishing industry here in NewYork and Suffolk County.
You know we're surrounded bywater in Nassau County,
surrounded by water.
So 30 odd years ago the marineprogram here at Cornell
(03:00):
Cooperative Extension of SuffolkCounty was initiated And in
general we've been kind offocused on five different
program areas.
We do youth education, we dohabitat restoration, things like
seal eelgrass.
We do shellfish restoration Youknow, i know you've had Dr
(03:20):
Tettle back on, so we've beendoing things you know for the
base, calps and the buconics,different townships with clams
and oysters.
We also do water quality.
So we do a lot of stormwaterremediation work with
municipalities and help themdeal with the stormwater
regulations that the EPA and thestate have.
(03:43):
And then we have fisheries.
So most of my early part of thecareer I was with the water
quality was a little bit offisheries.
And about 10 years ago Istarted becoming more interested
in fisheries And I'd alwayskind of worked a little bit on
(04:04):
some projects here and there,but it was never enough at the
time to really get involved.
You know they would need anextra person to go out on a boat
to go diving or, you know, tojust measure fish, and you know
my interest was there but ithadn't been peaked yet.
So about 10 years ago is when Istarted becoming more involved
(04:25):
And what makes a lot of ourprojects rewarding is that.
Again, going back to the dynamicof the cooperative extension
where they're working with thefarmers and the agriculture
department, what sets us apartfrom just basic research is that
(04:45):
we just about always have acooperative research project
with the industry fishingindustry.
Mostly we've been working withcommercial industry, but we also
do things with the recreational.
It's just, you know, the natureof some of the projects we have
(05:05):
, the interests of theresearchers and some of what the
industry has come to us with.
So a lot of the ideas we havearen't even generated from us.
They're ones that the industrysees, either through regulations
or, you know, designing newbycatch gear that may be trialed
(05:26):
over in Europe but hasn't beenapproved here in the United
States.
So, yeah, they come to us, youknow, and we have been fairly
successful with some federalgrant programs.
So we kind of know where aspecific idea may be the best
fit for federal funding.
George Scocca (05:46):
Well, there you have it, folks.
Let's get those fish killersout of the long on sound.
Thanks for listening.
All, please subscribe to thechannel.
I could use all the support Icould get as I try to advocate
for the recreational angler andthe recreational fishing
industry, and with always theresource in mind.
(06:09):
You can see me, or see me visitme over at myanglercom.
I'm there each and every dayalong with a group of really
fine, knowledgeable fishermenand fishing ladies.
That's why we call it New Yorkangler.
Well, i'll see you folks soon.
I have episode after episodethat'll be pumping out.
(06:31):
Good luck, good fishing, and Ihope you guys, gals, get out
there soon and enjoy what's soonto be the best fishing New York
has to offer.
Take in advice and you'veactually applied it.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (06:49):
Okay, and one of the you know best
ones and you know I believe it'sthe one you had taken the most
interest in or when youcontacted me is our derelict
lobster program.
You know, back in 99, 2000,there was the catastrophic
lobster die off in the LongIsland Sound.
You know, at the height of thelobster industry between
(07:14):
Connecticut and New York And NewYork there were permits for I
think it was just under 500,000traps.
Tags were issued that year, sothat was kind of the high
watermark, i believe, for trapfishing for lobsters.
And then you had the die offAnd then what you saw was guys
(07:38):
getting out of the industry Andsometimes what happened was
storms.
They were lost traps.
Sometimes there were guys whowere just casually fishing, yet
they had a commercial license,but they weren't necessarily
commercial.
Lobstering was not theirfull-time job.
George Scocca (07:58):
There were a lot of those back then And I
remember all that.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (08:04):
So what happened is is real estate's
money, and you had guys kind ofeither leaving them there
knowing they weren't going tocome back, or at least like you
know what next year's going tobe better.
I'm just going to leave mytraps out there.
And then by the time it wasfull on realization that the
(08:24):
lobster population within theLong Onesan was not coming back.
A lot of guys I don't evenremember where I had my traps
And the buoys have long sincegone and they just weren't there
.
George Scocca (08:36):
All right, listen , scott, you're sound like a
really good guy, but you're kindof going around and around the
offense.
Let's face it.
I mean, i get it.
They.
Probably they were hurting badenough as it was.
The lobsters all died, they'reall gone.
So they just in most and I'mnot trying to knock anybody, but
(08:58):
this is what happened.
They left them there And insome cases, i'm sure they you
know they did lose the buoys orwhatever, but in many cases they
did leave them there.
So you know, we got to call itspeed to speed, so to speak.
So, but yeah, and again, i'mnot saying it, but look, i just
(09:20):
see irony in that When I firstlooked you up, right, i was
reading some stuff and you knowI saw how I think we're working
somehow with Connecticut on thisor they're doing what, or we're
doing what they're doing, orand I was like the answer's got
to be we're going to pay thesame people that left them.
(09:43):
We're going to pay them to getthem out, because they're the
only ones that know where theyare.
So is that what's happening?
I mean to control the chase ofyou know how we get there.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (09:53):
Right, yes and no.
The issue was and this was, youknow, eventually the issue with
Connecticut, and I actuallydon't remember what it was in
New York.
But eventually the guys who hadstayed in the industry had said
like, look, you know, we'retrying to set our traps.
There's lots of traps out therethat just are not being used.
We're either telling them to anarea we know is there's hangs,
(10:16):
just to get them out of the way.
So they'd come to us and said,look, you know, we'd like to
develop a program where we canremove these traps.
And unfortunately I don't knowwhat it was in New York.
I know for Connecticut it tookthem a while to change their
laws because it had to do withprivate property that you
(10:36):
couldn't just pull them up Andmake sense So regardless.
I know you know for New York theprogram had started before I
was involved, but you know, Iknow what our letter from the
DEC says And the only you knowthe lobstermen that we work with
are ones who still have acurrent lobster license and are
in good standing.
George Scocca (10:57):
Okay.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (10:58):
So that's that matters.
Question about you know, yeah,going out getting their traps
that they put out there, so soyeah, I'm sorry to me too.
Yeah, but it's always been acooperative.
you know the industry came tous and we started, you know,
some pilot projects just to seewhat was out there.
So we didn't know Right.
(11:20):
And then it's been a lot ofcooperation with either
municipalities, because theother issue is that once we
grapple these and we pull themup, we've got to contact the
fishermen to see if they wanttheir traps back.
So we have to hold the trapsfor 30 days in case the
(11:40):
fishermen would like to reclaimtheir traps.
In most cases, you know thesetraps have been buried for over
10 years.
They're not in any functionalshape.
So in most cases they say they,you know they don't want them.
So again, we've worked with alot of municipalities so that we
have a staging area where wecan kind of keep some traps.
(12:02):
Again, it's been a lot of likebalancing acts and learning over
time And the success of theproject.
early on we would have to payfor a metal recycling company.
You know you, you know Dumpsterthis always costs, right Yeah.
But eventually they realizedthat this was such a great
(12:24):
program that they provided match.
So in, you know, in other words, they weren't charging us, they
were doing it for the project.
And usually that's what isrequired in some of these
federal grants is that you knowthere may be, say, 50% match
where if we're looking, you know, to do a project of $100,000,
(12:47):
we've got to essentially come upwith a $150,000 project where
$50,000 then is match.
So again, where that comes inis the metal recycling company,
you know, providing donating thein-kind services of, you know,
a dumpster and picking up and,you know, removing that dumpster
(13:08):
.
the municipalities come downonce the dumpsters delivered to
the port, you know, they comedown and they load the dumpster
with the traps and then they'llcrush them with the front end
loader.
Again, all things that you knoware they're not charging to the
grants but they're providingthose services.
So that's how this program hasbeen able to go, for I think
(13:31):
we've been doing it for 11 years.
George Scocca (13:34):
So can I ask how many?
I have a few questions.
I'm sure that these pots thatyou're finding, even though
they're old 10 years old,whatever, most of these pots are
killing fish, am I correct?
I mean, i could see it's like acycle, right?
A fish goes in, it dies,another fish goes in to eat that
(13:54):
, that fish or whatever.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (13:56):
Yes, and it's called ghost fishing.
Yeah, and I have to see, youknow, at one point one of our
projects we were seeing about 25or 30% were ghost fishing, so
that we would pull up a pot andthere was some sort of you know
live animal in it, most of themfish, but sometimes, you know,
(14:21):
lobsters, sometimes, you know,get a lot of spider crabs, right
, But, yes, finfish we'regetting in there and we've been
trying to.
That's kind of.
The next step of funding thatwe've been looking at is seeing
if there's a way we can see whatthat rate of ghost fishing is.
So it would have to bedesigning some sort of project
(14:44):
where there's an underwatercamera and use a baited trap and
just record over a certainperiod of time how much is
getting in there, so that we canstart to see what is that rate
of ghost fishing, because wedon't know, we pull up an empty
trap.
Okay, good, that one countstowards the 75%.
(15:06):
That wasn't ghost fishing, butif we picked it up yesterday
maybe it did, or last week,maybe it was The same thing with
the ones we are finding.
Maybe that one has never ghostfished before but just happened
to have one that day.
George Scocca (15:19):
Yeah, i can see that, But all right, so they are
killing fish.
I'm not trying to make thislike this is the end of the
world, but the truth is I feelthat once the lobsters died,
once they had to die off, a lotof those guys started targeting
(15:44):
blackfish.
And the price right now ofalive blackfish I mean you're
not supposed to sell them in NewYork But if you walk around
into the city into variousmarkets, you can find them alive
blackfish is $5 a pound.
So, i'm sorry, $25 a pound.
(16:05):
So a five pound fish is like125 bucks.
So when you have that kind ofprice tag on a fish, they were
getting targeted.
And at the same time you had theghost pots which we don't know
how many of those were killingblackfish.
You know, i was at the tableliterally when we wrote the
(16:29):
blackfish bill and we made thecommercial limit 25 fish a boat
And at the time we weren't goingto allow and we could have got
pushed through.
We weren't even going to allowpotting at all for blackfish.
But the lobstermen requestedlook, we get a bycatch, we get a
couple, you know, here andthere, but it does helps, you
(16:52):
know, help us.
So we were like all right, youknow you can keep your bycatch,
and then that turned into atargeted fishery, so you know.
So how many pots do you thinkthere are out there?
So if there were 500,000permits, is that?
that?
is that what we said?
There was a lot of A thousandtags.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (17:12):
So yeah , it's easily we can say there's
tens of thousands out therebecause we've over the 11 years
we've pulled 21,000 out Andthat's just on the New York side
.
So you know we've we're tryingto go into different areas.
The issue that we're kind ofrunning into now is because of
(17:37):
the DC permit and thestipulations I mentioned before,
that we've got to use alobstermen who still has a valid
permit and is a good standing.
A lot of again, a lot of theindustry here is left And
there's not too many lobstermenout there.
So we're kind of limited by theports that we're operating out
(17:58):
of.
So you know we've done a goodcleanup within Central Long
Island Sound.
You know there could be otherareas.
you know we're always findingother areas that we hadn't been
to before.
But you know Western LongIsland and Eastern Long Island
we really have not done thatmuch out there just because
again, trying to find afisherman who fits those
(18:18):
requirements is tough.
You know we've had some guysthat we've worked with, you know
, say, out of Mount Sinai.
you know it's the cost of fuelsgetting a lot.
So they've been willing to gofurther west or east of where
they normally would have gone.
But now you know, fuel beingwhat it is And again these
projects being, you know, thefishermen putting in some match.
(18:40):
you know it's becomingeconomically tough to keep that
portion up without finding otherparticipants.
George Scocca (18:49):
So you get this.
great.
it just seems to me, isn'tthere a way that someone could
say to DC look, we can't findanybody, but we have this money,
we need to do this work.
you know, is there someone elsewe could hire?
I mean, i got to give you anexample.
There's a friend of mine.
his name is John Skinner.
(19:09):
He's got a ton of YouTubevideos.
Yes, and in many of thoseunderwater video, now, that's
the guy going out rec fishingright, you know, recreationally
fishing And that drone there's aghost pot.
I've seen at least three timeswhere his drone has picked up
ghost pots.
So why aren't we like employingnew technology where we don't
(19:37):
have to depend on everybody?
I mean, with the sonar andeverything we have now, you
could pick out a five inch rockon the bottom of the.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (19:45):
Yeah, no, and we are.
We are starting to.
you know it was now that we'regetting Connecticut on board.
Connecticut is just startingtheir program.
You know they decided.
You know they did want toreinvent the wheel.
We've been doing this for awhile, so they are patterning
their program after what we'vebeen doing here.
Oh okay, so they're justgetting started Some of their
(20:09):
projects.
They have been able to get someside scan sonar.
We actually have a currentproject that we're hopefully
starting within a month or so.
That was based upon some sidescan sonar.
That's some images in OysterBay.
The issue, though, is, you know, making sure we don't know if
(20:30):
they're lobster pots for sure,or, if they're, you know they
could be welk pots.
George Scocca (20:35):
Right, yeah, there's so many variables And I
get that And you know that was aproblem originally And I guess
still is kind of, in that thereis no real definition of a
blackfish pot.
It's still, you know, it'sstill basically a lobster pot.
So but hey, it is what it iswhen it comes to that.
(21:00):
But the bottom line is theblack fish, i mean the blackfish
fishery, to talk fish fisheryis coming back, but it's a much.
You know the fishery is beingmanaged to keep a lot of small
fish, you know, and it's kind ofworking in that regard.
But there's the number of bigbreeders that we used to see.
(21:21):
They just not around And youknow, i don't believe in
coincidence as the price goes upon any fishery.
We used to see that with StripeBass.
You know the fishery hurts Andbecause not everybody's honest
most people are but not everyone, not everyone is And there's so
(21:43):
many different ways to pushthese fish out onto the market.
But so it's great that you guysare doing this.
It really is, you know, like Ihad no clue when I was wondered,
like I used to fish the shoreand pipeline.
I don't know if you guys didany work there, but that thing
is just lined from one end tothe other with pots.
(22:05):
There are no fish left therefor a traditional anglers.
So, but I'm wondering how manyof those are ghosts, or you know
how many down there?
You know, i always think aboutthe areas I fish.
You know I've fished inSmithtown Bay and all throughout
that area, and you know you'refloaking, you're snagging apart.
(22:26):
It happens, happens quite often.
So, but all right, so now whatelse?
what else are you guys doing?
Well, maybe, look, let me changethis a little bit.
So what is your opinion on thechanging of our waters here in
(22:49):
New York, and specifically inthe sound, because I kind of
feel like the sound is warmingfaster.
You know, we have a lot ofpeople that have listened to
this thing that they kind ofdeny that things are happening,
but the truth is they are.
I don't know what's causing it,but it's happening.
So what are your?
(23:11):
how do you feel?
I mean, like, since I was achild, i saw you see Tom Codden
sound, you know macro runs, wehad dolphin all over the place.
I mean it was a totallydifferent fishery.
We had, you know, black, youknow nice winter flounder, but
we didn't have sea bass, right,we didn't have a lot of fluke,
(23:31):
we didn't.
So what do you think ishappening?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (23:37):
Yeah, it's just a lot of it, i think
is just, you know, with thewaters changing, the you know
temperature, yeah, we're seeingdifferent stocks And you know,
besides the lobster stuff, youknow we haven't really done much
in Long Island Sound A littlebit.
(23:57):
You know we do a stripe bassspecific project for the DC
right now.
But, like you said, you knowyou're seeing more black sea
bass.
You know they're coming up.
You know you're hearing ofother species that have been
managed.
You know, with the differentcouncils.
(24:18):
You know species that are nowused to be controlled by the
Mid-Atlantic Council are nowmoving up to New England.
You know, and the same thingwas, you know we've got, you
know, southern Atlantic Councilfish moving up to Mid-Atlantic
And some of the issues are gonnabe that you know some of those
decisions need to be changedbecause then you get an area who
(24:41):
you know council, who's doingregulations for fish that's no
longer in their area.
Yeah, i think that's gonna haveto be, you know, a big change
coming up.
Well, at least that's to betalked about either the council
or the commission.
George Scocca (24:59):
Yeah, you know.
a good example of that isFlorida having a vote in stripe
bass.
They don't get stripe bass downthere, but you know, because
it's the East Coast.
So but in any case, so you'redoing all this great work around
Long Island, how big is yourteam And do you advise, or
(25:23):
you're just on the?
you're just doing the work toget results?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (25:30):
We're doing it.
you know, again, we've beenworking with a lot of these
partners for 30 plus years, sowe're kind of, in a way,
invested, you know, in theirfuture and our future as well,
you know.
so, like the stripe bass, thatwas one of the recreational
projects we did, you know, whenit was first started to see that
(25:53):
.
you know there were maybe somemeasures gonna come down back in
2018.
You know we applied for grantto do some just recreational
stripe bass information from NewYork, you know, knowing that at
some point there were gonna besome new regulations and then
eventually it did hit that youknow you had to use circle hooks
(26:18):
for live bait, differenthandling techniques for best
management practices.
But recently we've been alsodoing a project for the DEC
because it's been quite a longtime since they've done any PCB
analysis on stripe bass.
George Scocca (26:36):
Very interesting.
I'm gonna have to follow upwith you on that.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (26:41):
We started last year and again the
DEC knows that we've got greatrelationships with the
commercial and recreational forhigher industry, specifically in
this case where we've been ableto collect stripe bass samples
from five different geographicareas around Long Island and
(27:05):
collect monthly samples ofstriped bass so they can analyze
them for PCB concentrations tosee if things have gotten better
.
so maybe they can open up moreareas that have been closed.
George Scocca (27:22):
Yeah, and if you all knew that was coming.
Do you mean the invisible line?
Oh, the magical line where thefish go past it?
right, it's rock away.
If they're headed east, theyget magically cleaned, and if
they?
go west they get.
All of a sudden they're loadedwith PCBs.
(27:42):
I don't know which one it is.
I remember one time they wereconsidering different sides of
the river to make them, becausesome fish in the Hudson had less
PCBs than the other ones.
I'm like, wait a minute, thesefish are going all over the
place.
But yeah, so that's prettyinteresting.
(28:03):
I suspected that they wouldstart looking at that, because I
don't know how I feel about it,but they got a certain number
of tags and that's it.
I've learned over the yearsthat it is poaching a bob, and
when it comes to striped bassthey're pretty strict.
So I think that's the onefishery that we don't really
(28:27):
have to worry about that much asfar as the health of the stock
and what the Hudson's producing.
So, all right, look, scott, idon't want to keep you tied up
all day here, and I really doappreciate this.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (28:41):
Now, appreciate you having me on.
George Scocca (28:43):
We're going to talk again and I'm going to turn
it.
Go ahead.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (28:48):
I've got a staff of I think you would
ask that question.
I currently have a staff of 10.
A lot of it is we wrote a lotduring COVID, when we couldn't
do much field work.
We wrote a lot and at the timeduring COVID, we were a staff of
five and we've doubled.
We currently have 11 differentprojects.
(29:09):
So basically, i've describedtwo or three of the projects
we're working on.
We've got several local seafoodprojects that we're trying to
get people to eat more localseafood.
And then a lot of gearadaptation stuff that we do up
and down just looking atdifferent gear to help reduce
(29:31):
bycatch or increase targetedcatch for different fisheries.
George Scocca (29:36):
So, scott, there is one thing I did want to
mention.
So you have, you're reachingout to party boats, right, and
you're reaching out tocommercial fishermen.
Have you guys ever consideredactually reaching out to
recreational fishermen?
There are plenty ofrecreational fishermen that can
(29:59):
give you a ton of information.
Like you're not getting anyfish from the surf, right.
So it's, i mean, we are hereand we would love to be a part
of it, and I know that We haveactually, you know you're going
to go and go Okay, that's great.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (30:16):
So we're actually, you know, a
fishing club on the North Shore,you know, in Suffolk County,
that had contacted us And Ithink we had put in, for this is
a marine debris, or actually itmay have been expansion of the
artificial reef years ago whenthe DC was doing that.
So, yeah, no, we've always been, you know, trying to fit
(30:37):
recreational stuff in.
George Scocca (30:39):
Yeah, because we're here.
We're here to help.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (30:42):
We always seem to get like
overlooking us Right And withthe Stripe Bass, when we again,
sometimes it comes down toregulations, we can't.
We were trying to figure thatout with our.
You know, our current projectwith the Stripe Bass PCB being
that now we're going to be, youknow, sampling both Long Island
waters this year the beginningof the year and then all of kind
(31:04):
of the Western New Yorkembayments throughout the year.
You know, if there was anywiggle room with the
recreational industry, you know,while we can't, you know that
we do have funds that cover someof the costs.
You know, for recreational,what we can work out is if guys
are interested in taking us out,they know where the fish are.
(31:26):
You know there's something wecan work out where we pay for
bait or we pay for some fuel orsomething like that.
So that's one of the ways we'retrying to get more participants
, more stakeholders, involvedwith that particular project.
George Scocca (31:38):
Well, that's great.
I mean, if you could email mesomething, if you have anything
regarding those programs, icould link them up on our
website and get the word outthrough our social media.
And because I know people wouldjust love to be involved Now I
would be remiss not to pass thislast hot potato by you.
(31:59):
Do you have any comment on thewhales that are washing ashore
and the overall effect of thewindmills?
What you?
when I look at it, i seewindmills in the path of these
whales.
You know they're putting themright in the migration path, but
I know I kind of know where youare and what you do.
(32:19):
It may not be easy for you tocomment.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (32:23):
Right, all I know is that, you know,
i've been trying to keep up onit And this morning I was
reading something that waslinked through, you know, a
fishery website that you know.
I guess the official word onsome of the ones that were found
this weekend were vesselstrikes.
George Scocca (32:37):
Yeah, No, I agree , but how come no one ever
mentions is they seem to be morevessel strikes.
So maybe I'm wrong, but I don'tthink I am.
Maybe they're being disorientedAnd that's why they're getting
whacked by ships.
No one ever brings that pointup.
And the other thing issomeone's got to tell these
(33:00):
people, you know, oh, you know,climate change is not the
biggest threat to the whales.
They've been here for 50, butthey've been through a lot of
cooling and warming And we'rethe only threat right now.
But anyway, I had to get thatout.
I have to.
I've been all over, you know,all over.
It's from two years ago, youknow, they laid it all out.
(33:21):
They laid it all out.
But anyway, Scott, you are agreat guest and I am going to
have you on.
And when do you think you'regoing to have that PCB study
complete?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (33:33):
I'd love to touch base with you Well
if you're allowed to, if youalways know, I can tell you that
you know we'll be done.
Cornell's involvement, as faras working with the industry and
obtaining the samples andworking the samples up, You know
we're done this year.
as for the analysis, That's outof our hands.
George Scocca (33:52):
Okay, yeah, all right, good enough, i'll.
I got enough people I speak toover there and he'll give it to
us, yeah, and we know.
Scott Curitolo Wageman (34:00):
Anything we get.
We try to pass on to theindustry as much as we know.
That's great.
George Scocca (34:05):
Scott, look, i you know.
I appreciate you taking thetime and explaining to our
audience that there are peopleout there that actually work
with the end and recreationalfishermen.
I'm glad you brought that upand that you're working on
getting those pots, those ghostpots.
That we're all you know.
We all know what's going on.
(34:26):
We've all snagged one, we'veall seen, yeah.
So keep up the good work withthat.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (34:32):
Yeah, and again that's another thing
You know if you were yourlisteners.
Again, you know the specificplace.
You guys have the knowledge Andagain that's how we started
this with the commercialindustry.
They knew where pots were Andyou know if we can put something
together again, you got video.
Then that just can certainly gointo a grant submission and you
(34:53):
know that would probably be aLong Island.
Sound Future Funds grant comingup within the next month.
They're going to announce that,so that would be the perfect
opportunity that you know ifyou've got some good sonar
images or drone images oranything.
George Scocca (35:08):
Oh, yeah, have drone area where there's pots.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (35:11):
You know that that that will help a
proposal and you know help thethe chances that it'll get
funded.
George Scocca (35:18):
Absolutely.
A picture is, as they say, athousand words, and it's not
nothing truer than that when itcomes to fisheries, because
people you know fish are underthe water and they never see
what's going on.
If you give them actual videoand they see this fish trapped
in a pot being killed, they'regoing to think differently.
So, all right, scott, look,thanks.
(35:39):
So again, send me whatever youhave and I'll get it up on our
website, and I'll also, you know, be reaching out to some of our
friends.
You know recreational folksthat I think might be interested
in helping out with this.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (35:55):
Yeah, great.
George Scocca (35:56):
All right.
So thanks again, scott.
We'll talk again soon.
Thanks.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (36:00):
Okay, thank you.
George Scocca (36:01):
Bye, bye, bye.
Well, there you have it, folks.
Let's get those fish killersout of the long on sound.
Thanks for listening.
All, please subscribe to thechannel.
I could use all the support Icould get as I tried to advocate
for the recreational angler andthe recreational fishing
(36:22):
industry, and with always theresource in mind.
You can see me, or see me visitme, over at my anglercom.
I'm there each and every dayalong with a group of really
fine, knowledgeable fishermenand fishing ladies.
That's why we call it New YorkAngler.
(36:42):
Well, i'll see you folks soon.
I have episode after episodethat'll be pumping out.
Good luck, good fishing, and Ihope you guys and gals get out
there soon and enjoy what's soonto be the best fishing New York
has to offer.
Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of
the New York Fishing Podcast.
Today we will be talking aboutthe ghost pots which are
aligning the Long Island Sound.
This is a serious issue.
There are estimated to bebetween 800,000 and 1.3 million
(00:22):
of these pots, most of whichwere left behind after the
collapse of the lobster.
So, while everyone is gettingready to get out fishing which I
hope you're doing, becausethings have been pretty hot this
week I want you to listen in onthis ghost pot issue because
(00:44):
we're going to need folks tohelp us get these things out of
the Long Island Sound.
I'd like to introduce our guest,scott Curitolo Wagamon.
He is a senior resourceeducator at Cornell Cooperative
Extension in Suffolk County andis the director of fisheries of
(01:06):
the fisheries department withinthe marine program.
This guest is exciting to me inthat he's like looking at all
these things that I'm alwaysconcerned with when it comes to
fisheries management and justour overall fisheries.
So, scott, please explain topeople how what you do is
(01:29):
different in that you actuallyyour hands on.
You know, the biggest, thebiggest complaint most anglers
have is that they're gettingdirections from people's sitting
behind a desk.
You know, so I mean, you'reactually hands on.
So if you could explain to thefolks what you do and what your
(01:51):
team does.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (01:53):
Yeah, certainly, and thanks for having
me on the podcast, george.
It's an honor I'm having a fewof them, you know very excited
to be here and glad you invitedme.
So part of what we do goes backto the cooperative extension
system itself.
Each of the counties within NewYork has a cooperative
(02:17):
extension, Cornell being a landgrant university for New York,
and most of the cooperativeextensions deal with
horticulture, agriculture, someenvironmental problems.
And then 30 odd years ago someresearchers realized that you
(02:39):
know, kind of the same sort ofissues they were seeing in the
agriculture industry could bedirectly related to things in
the fishing industry here in NewYork and Suffolk County.
You know we're surrounded bywater in Nassau County,
surrounded by water.
So 30 odd years ago the marineprogram here at Cornell
(03:00):
Cooperative Extension of SuffolkCounty was initiated And in
general we've been kind offocused on five different
program areas.
We do youth education, we dohabitat restoration, things like
seal eelgrass.
We do shellfish restoration Youknow, i know you've had Dr
(03:20):
Tettle back on, so we've beendoing things you know for the
base, calps and the buconics,different townships with clams
and oysters.
We also do water quality.
So we do a lot of stormwaterremediation work with
municipalities and help themdeal with the stormwater
regulations that the EPA and thestate have.
(03:43):
And then we have fisheries.
So most of my early part of thecareer I was with the water
quality was a little bit offisheries.
And about 10 years ago Istarted becoming more interested
in fisheries And I'd alwayskind of worked a little bit on
(04:04):
some projects here and there,but it was never enough at the
time to really get involved.
You know they would need anextra person to go out on a boat
to go diving or, you know, tojust measure fish, and you know
my interest was there but ithadn't been peaked yet.
So about 10 years ago is when Istarted becoming more involved
(04:25):
And what makes a lot of ourprojects rewarding is that.
Again, going back to the dynamicof the cooperative extension
where they're working with thefarmers and the agriculture
department, what sets us apartfrom just basic research is that
(04:45):
we just about always have acooperative research project
with the industry fishingindustry.
Mostly we've been working withcommercial industry, but we also
do things with the recreational.
It's just, you know, the natureof some of the projects we have
(05:05):
, the interests of theresearchers and some of what the
industry has come to us with.
So a lot of the ideas we havearen't even generated from us.
They're ones that the industrysees, either through regulations
or, you know, designing newbycatch gear that may be trialed
(05:26):
over in Europe but hasn't beenapproved here in the United
States.
So, yeah, they come to us, youknow, and we have been fairly
successful with some federalgrant programs.
So we kind of know where aspecific idea may be the best
fit for federal funding.
George Scocca (05:46):
Well, there you have it, folks.
Let's get those fish killersout of the long on sound.
Thanks for listening.
All, please subscribe to thechannel.
I could use all the support Icould get as I try to advocate
for the recreational angler andthe recreational fishing
industry, and with always theresource in mind.
(06:09):
You can see me, or see me visitme over at myanglercom.
I'm there each and every dayalong with a group of really
fine, knowledgeable fishermenand fishing ladies.
That's why we call it New Yorkangler.
Well, i'll see you folks soon.
I have episode after episodethat'll be pumping out.
(06:31):
Good luck, good fishing, and Ihope you guys, gals, get out
there soon and enjoy what's soonto be the best fishing New York
has to offer.
Take in advice and you'veactually applied it.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (06:49):
Okay, and one of the you know best
ones and you know I believe it'sthe one you had taken the most
interest in or when youcontacted me is our derelict
lobster program.
You know, back in 99, 2000,there was the catastrophic
lobster die off in the LongIsland Sound.
You know, at the height of thelobster industry between
(07:14):
Connecticut and New York And NewYork there were permits for I
think it was just under 500,000traps.
Tags were issued that year, sothat was kind of the high
watermark, i believe, for trapfishing for lobsters.
And then you had the die offAnd then what you saw was guys
(07:38):
getting out of the industry Andsometimes what happened was
storms.
They were lost traps.
Sometimes there were guys whowere just casually fishing, yet
they had a commercial license,but they weren't necessarily
commercial.
Lobstering was not theirfull-time job.
George Scocca (07:58):
There were a lot of those back then And I
remember all that.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (08:04):
So what happened is is real estate's
money, and you had guys kind ofeither leaving them there
knowing they weren't going tocome back, or at least like you
know what next year's going tobe better.
I'm just going to leave mytraps out there.
And then by the time it wasfull on realization that the
(08:24):
lobster population within theLong Onesan was not coming back.
A lot of guys I don't evenremember where I had my traps
And the buoys have long sincegone and they just weren't there
.
George Scocca (08:36):
All right, listen , scott, you're sound like a
really good guy, but you're kindof going around and around the
offense.
Let's face it.
I mean, i get it.
They.
Probably they were hurting badenough as it was.
The lobsters all died, they'reall gone.
So they just in most and I'mnot trying to knock anybody, but
(08:58):
this is what happened.
They left them there And insome cases, i'm sure they you
know they did lose the buoys orwhatever, but in many cases they
did leave them there.
So you know, we got to call itspeed to speed, so to speak.
So, but yeah, and again, i'mnot saying it, but look, i just
(09:20):
see irony in that When I firstlooked you up, right, i was
reading some stuff and you knowI saw how I think we're working
somehow with Connecticut on thisor they're doing what, or we're
doing what they're doing, orand I was like the answer's got
to be we're going to pay thesame people that left them.
(09:43):
We're going to pay them to getthem out, because they're the
only ones that know where theyare.
So is that what's happening?
I mean to control the chase ofyou know how we get there.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (09:53):
Right, yes and no.
The issue was and this was, youknow, eventually the issue with
Connecticut, and I actuallydon't remember what it was in
New York.
But eventually the guys who hadstayed in the industry had said
like, look, you know, we'retrying to set our traps.
There's lots of traps out therethat just are not being used.
We're either telling them to anarea we know is there's hangs,
(10:16):
just to get them out of the way.
So they'd come to us and said,look, you know, we'd like to
develop a program where we canremove these traps.
And unfortunately I don't knowwhat it was in New York.
I know for Connecticut it tookthem a while to change their
laws because it had to do withprivate property that you
(10:36):
couldn't just pull them up Andmake sense So regardless.
I know you know for New York theprogram had started before I
was involved, but you know, Iknow what our letter from the
DEC says And the only you knowthe lobstermen that we work with
are ones who still have acurrent lobster license and are
in good standing.
George Scocca (10:57):
Okay.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (10:58):
So that's that matters.
Question about you know, yeah,going out getting their traps
that they put out there, so soyeah, I'm sorry to me too.
Yeah, but it's always been acooperative.
you know the industry came tous and we started, you know,
some pilot projects just to seewhat was out there.
So we didn't know Right.
(11:20):
And then it's been a lot ofcooperation with either
municipalities, because theother issue is that once we
grapple these and we pull themup, we've got to contact the
fishermen to see if they wanttheir traps back.
So we have to hold the trapsfor 30 days in case the
(11:40):
fishermen would like to reclaimtheir traps.
In most cases, you know thesetraps have been buried for over
10 years.
They're not in any functionalshape.
So in most cases they say they,you know they don't want them.
So again, we've worked with alot of municipalities so that we
have a staging area where wecan kind of keep some traps.
(12:02):
Again, it's been a lot of likebalancing acts and learning over
time And the success of theproject.
early on we would have to payfor a metal recycling company.
You know you, you know Dumpsterthis always costs, right Yeah.
But eventually they realizedthat this was such a great
(12:24):
program that they provided match.
So in, you know, in other words, they weren't charging us, they
were doing it for the project.
And usually that's what isrequired in some of these
federal grants is that you knowthere may be, say, 50% match
where if we're looking, you know, to do a project of $100,000,
(12:47):
we've got to essentially come upwith a $150,000 project where
$50,000 then is match.
So again, where that comes inis the metal recycling company,
you know, providing donating thein-kind services of, you know,
a dumpster and picking up and,you know, removing that dumpster
(13:08):
.
the municipalities come downonce the dumpsters delivered to
the port, you know, they comedown and they load the dumpster
with the traps and then they'llcrush them with the front end
loader.
Again, all things that you knoware they're not charging to the
grants but they're providingthose services.
So that's how this program hasbeen able to go, for I think
(13:31):
we've been doing it for 11 years.
George Scocca (13:34):
So can I ask how many?
I have a few questions.
I'm sure that these pots thatyou're finding, even though
they're old 10 years old,whatever, most of these pots are
killing fish, am I correct?
I mean, i could see it's like acycle, right?
A fish goes in, it dies,another fish goes in to eat that
(13:54):
, that fish or whatever.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (13:56):
Yes, and it's called ghost fishing.
Yeah, and I have to see, youknow, at one point one of our
projects we were seeing about 25or 30% were ghost fishing, so
that we would pull up a pot andthere was some sort of you know
live animal in it, most of themfish, but sometimes, you know,
(14:21):
lobsters, sometimes, you know,get a lot of spider crabs, right
, But, yes, finfish we'regetting in there and we've been
trying to.
That's kind of.
The next step of funding thatwe've been looking at is seeing
if there's a way we can see whatthat rate of ghost fishing is.
So it would have to bedesigning some sort of project
(14:44):
where there's an underwatercamera and use a baited trap and
just record over a certainperiod of time how much is
getting in there, so that we canstart to see what is that rate
of ghost fishing, because wedon't know, we pull up an empty
trap.
Okay, good, that one countstowards the 75%.
(15:06):
That wasn't ghost fishing, butif we picked it up yesterday
maybe it did, or last week,maybe it was The same thing with
the ones we are finding.
Maybe that one has never ghostfished before but just happened
to have one that day.
George Scocca (15:19):
Yeah, i can see that, But all right, so they are
killing fish.
I'm not trying to make thislike this is the end of the
world, but the truth is I feelthat once the lobsters died,
once they had to die off, a lotof those guys started targeting
(15:44):
blackfish.
And the price right now ofalive blackfish I mean you're
not supposed to sell them in NewYork But if you walk around
into the city into variousmarkets, you can find them alive
blackfish is $5 a pound.
So, i'm sorry, $25 a pound.
(16:05):
So a five pound fish is like125 bucks.
So when you have that kind ofprice tag on a fish, they were
getting targeted.
And at the same time you had theghost pots which we don't know
how many of those were killingblackfish.
You know, i was at the tableliterally when we wrote the
(16:29):
blackfish bill and we made thecommercial limit 25 fish a boat
And at the time we weren't goingto allow and we could have got
pushed through.
We weren't even going to allowpotting at all for blackfish.
But the lobstermen requestedlook, we get a bycatch, we get a
couple, you know, here andthere, but it does helps, you
(16:52):
know, help us.
So we were like all right, youknow you can keep your bycatch,
and then that turned into atargeted fishery, so you know.
So how many pots do you thinkthere are out there?
So if there were 500,000permits, is that?
that?
is that what we said?
There was a lot of A thousandtags.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (17:12):
So yeah , it's easily we can say there's
tens of thousands out therebecause we've over the 11 years
we've pulled 21,000 out Andthat's just on the New York side
.
So you know we've we're tryingto go into different areas.
The issue that we're kind ofrunning into now is because of
(17:37):
the DC permit and thestipulations I mentioned before,
that we've got to use alobstermen who still has a valid
permit and is a good standing.
A lot of again, a lot of theindustry here is left And
there's not too many lobstermenout there.
So we're kind of limited by theports that we're operating out
(17:58):
of.
So you know we've done a goodcleanup within Central Long
Island Sound.
You know there could be otherareas.
you know we're always findingother areas that we hadn't been
to before.
But you know Western LongIsland and Eastern Long Island
we really have not done thatmuch out there just because
again, trying to find afisherman who fits those
(18:18):
requirements is tough.
You know we've had some guysthat we've worked with, you know
, say, out of Mount Sinai.
you know it's the cost of fuelsgetting a lot.
So they've been willing to gofurther west or east of where
they normally would have gone.
But now you know, fuel beingwhat it is And again these
projects being, you know, thefishermen putting in some match.
(18:40):
you know it's becomingeconomically tough to keep that
portion up without finding otherparticipants.
George Scocca (18:49):
So you get this.
great.
it just seems to me, isn'tthere a way that someone could
say to DC look, we can't findanybody, but we have this money,
we need to do this work.
you know, is there someone elsewe could hire?
I mean, i got to give you anexample.
There's a friend of mine.
his name is John Skinner.
(19:09):
He's got a ton of YouTubevideos.
Yes, and in many of thoseunderwater video, now, that's
the guy going out rec fishingright, you know, recreationally
fishing And that drone there's aghost pot.
I've seen at least three timeswhere his drone has picked up
ghost pots.
So why aren't we like employingnew technology where we don't
(19:37):
have to depend on everybody?
I mean, with the sonar andeverything we have now, you
could pick out a five inch rockon the bottom of the.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (19:45):
Yeah, no, and we are.
We are starting to.
you know it was now that we'regetting Connecticut on board.
Connecticut is just startingtheir program.
You know they decided.
You know they did want toreinvent the wheel.
We've been doing this for awhile, so they are patterning
their program after what we'vebeen doing here.
Oh okay, so they're justgetting started Some of their
(20:09):
projects.
They have been able to get someside scan sonar.
We actually have a currentproject that we're hopefully
starting within a month or so.
That was based upon some sidescan sonar.
That's some images in OysterBay.
The issue, though, is, you know, making sure we don't know if
(20:30):
they're lobster pots for sure,or, if they're, you know they
could be welk pots.
George Scocca (20:35):
Right, yeah, there's so many variables And I
get that And you know that was aproblem originally And I guess
still is kind of, in that thereis no real definition of a
blackfish pot.
It's still, you know, it'sstill basically a lobster pot.
So but hey, it is what it iswhen it comes to that.
(21:00):
But the bottom line is theblack fish, i mean the blackfish
fishery, to talk fish fisheryis coming back, but it's a much.
You know the fishery is beingmanaged to keep a lot of small
fish, you know, and it's kind ofworking in that regard.
But there's the number of bigbreeders that we used to see.
(21:21):
They just not around And youknow, i don't believe in
coincidence as the price goes upon any fishery.
We used to see that with StripeBass.
You know the fishery hurts Andbecause not everybody's honest
most people are but not everyone, not everyone is And there's so
(21:43):
many different ways to pushthese fish out onto the market.
But so it's great that you guysare doing this.
It really is, you know, like Ihad no clue when I was wondered,
like I used to fish the shoreand pipeline.
I don't know if you guys didany work there, but that thing
is just lined from one end tothe other with pots.
(22:05):
There are no fish left therefor a traditional anglers.
So, but I'm wondering how manyof those are ghosts, or you know
how many down there?
You know, i always think aboutthe areas I fish.
You know I've fished inSmithtown Bay and all throughout
that area, and you know you'refloaking, you're snagging apart.
(22:26):
It happens, happens quite often.
So, but all right, so now whatelse?
what else are you guys doing?
Well, maybe, look, let me changethis a little bit.
So what is your opinion on thechanging of our waters here in
(22:49):
New York, and specifically inthe sound, because I kind of
feel like the sound is warmingfaster.
You know, we have a lot ofpeople that have listened to
this thing that they kind ofdeny that things are happening,
but the truth is they are.
I don't know what's causing it,but it's happening.
So what are your?
(23:11):
how do you feel?
I mean, like, since I was achild, i saw you see Tom Codden
sound, you know macro runs, wehad dolphin all over the place.
I mean it was a totallydifferent fishery.
We had, you know, black, youknow nice winter flounder, but
we didn't have sea bass, right,we didn't have a lot of fluke,
(23:31):
we didn't.
So what do you think ishappening?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (23:37):
Yeah, it's just a lot of it, i think
is just, you know, with thewaters changing, the you know
temperature, yeah, we're seeingdifferent stocks And you know,
besides the lobster stuff, youknow we haven't really done much
in Long Island Sound A littlebit.
(23:57):
You know we do a stripe bassspecific project for the DC
right now.
But, like you said, you knowyou're seeing more black sea
bass.
You know they're coming up.
You know you're hearing ofother species that have been
managed.
You know, with the differentcouncils.
(24:18):
You know species that are nowused to be controlled by the
Mid-Atlantic Council are nowmoving up to New England.
You know, and the same thingwas, you know we've got, you
know, southern Atlantic Councilfish moving up to Mid-Atlantic
And some of the issues are gonnabe that you know some of those
decisions need to be changedbecause then you get an area who
(24:41):
you know council, who's doingregulations for fish that's no
longer in their area.
Yeah, i think that's gonna haveto be, you know, a big change
coming up.
Well, at least that's to betalked about either the council
or the commission.
George Scocca (24:59):
Yeah, you know.
a good example of that isFlorida having a vote in stripe
bass.
They don't get stripe bass downthere, but you know, because
it's the East Coast.
So but in any case, so you'redoing all this great work around
Long Island, how big is yourteam And do you advise, or
(25:23):
you're just on the?
you're just doing the work toget results?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (25:30):
We're doing it.
you know, again, we've beenworking with a lot of these
partners for 30 plus years, sowe're kind of, in a way,
invested, you know, in theirfuture and our future as well,
you know.
so, like the stripe bass, thatwas one of the recreational
projects we did, you know, whenit was first started to see that
(25:53):
.
you know there were maybe somemeasures gonna come down back in
2018.
You know we applied for grantto do some just recreational
stripe bass information from NewYork, you know, knowing that at
some point there were gonna besome new regulations and then
eventually it did hit that youknow you had to use circle hooks
(26:18):
for live bait, differenthandling techniques for best
management practices.
But recently we've been alsodoing a project for the DEC
because it's been quite a longtime since they've done any PCB
analysis on stripe bass.
George Scocca (26:36):
Very interesting.
I'm gonna have to follow upwith you on that.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (26:41):
We started last year and again the
DEC knows that we've got greatrelationships with the
commercial and recreational forhigher industry, specifically in
this case where we've been ableto collect stripe bass samples
from five different geographicareas around Long Island and
(27:05):
collect monthly samples ofstriped bass so they can analyze
them for PCB concentrations tosee if things have gotten better
.
so maybe they can open up moreareas that have been closed.
George Scocca (27:22):
Yeah, and if you all knew that was coming.
Do you mean the invisible line?
Oh, the magical line where thefish go past it?
right, it's rock away.
If they're headed east, theyget magically cleaned, and if
they?
go west they get.
All of a sudden they're loadedwith PCBs.
(27:42):
I don't know which one it is.
I remember one time they wereconsidering different sides of
the river to make them, becausesome fish in the Hudson had less
PCBs than the other ones.
I'm like, wait a minute, thesefish are going all over the
place.
But yeah, so that's prettyinteresting.
(28:03):
I suspected that they wouldstart looking at that, because I
don't know how I feel about it,but they got a certain number
of tags and that's it.
I've learned over the yearsthat it is poaching a bob, and
when it comes to striped bassthey're pretty strict.
So I think that's the onefishery that we don't really
(28:27):
have to worry about that much asfar as the health of the stock
and what the Hudson's producing.
So, all right, look, scott, idon't want to keep you tied up
all day here, and I really doappreciate this.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (28:41):
Now, appreciate you having me on.
George Scocca (28:43):
We're going to talk again and I'm going to turn
it.
Go ahead.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (28:48):
I've got a staff of I think you would
ask that question.
I currently have a staff of 10.
A lot of it is we wrote a lotduring COVID, when we couldn't
do much field work.
We wrote a lot and at the timeduring COVID, we were a staff of
five and we've doubled.
We currently have 11 differentprojects.
(29:09):
So basically, i've describedtwo or three of the projects
we're working on.
We've got several local seafoodprojects that we're trying to
get people to eat more localseafood.
And then a lot of gearadaptation stuff that we do up
and down just looking atdifferent gear to help reduce
(29:31):
bycatch or increase targetedcatch for different fisheries.
George Scocca (29:36):
So, scott, there is one thing I did want to
mention.
So you have, you're reachingout to party boats, right, and
you're reaching out tocommercial fishermen.
Have you guys ever consideredactually reaching out to
recreational fishermen?
There are plenty ofrecreational fishermen that can
(29:59):
give you a ton of information.
Like you're not getting anyfish from the surf, right.
So it's, i mean, we are hereand we would love to be a part
of it, and I know that We haveactually, you know you're going
to go and go Okay, that's great.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (30:16):
So we're actually, you know, a
fishing club on the North Shore,you know, in Suffolk County,
that had contacted us And Ithink we had put in, for this is
a marine debris, or actually itmay have been expansion of the
artificial reef years ago whenthe DC was doing that.
So, yeah, no, we've always been, you know, trying to fit
(30:37):
recreational stuff in.
George Scocca (30:39):
Yeah, because we're here.
We're here to help.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (30:42):
We always seem to get like
overlooking us Right And withthe Stripe Bass, when we again,
sometimes it comes down toregulations, we can't.
We were trying to figure thatout with our.
You know, our current projectwith the Stripe Bass PCB being
that now we're going to be, youknow, sampling both Long Island
waters this year the beginningof the year and then all of kind
(31:04):
of the Western New Yorkembayments throughout the year.
You know, if there was anywiggle room with the
recreational industry, you know,while we can't, you know that
we do have funds that cover someof the costs.
You know, for recreational,what we can work out is if guys
are interested in taking us out,they know where the fish are.
(31:26):
You know there's something wecan work out where we pay for
bait or we pay for some fuel orsomething like that.
So that's one of the ways we'retrying to get more participants
, more stakeholders, involvedwith that particular project.
George Scocca (31:38):
Well, that's great.
I mean, if you could email mesomething, if you have anything
regarding those programs, icould link them up on our
website and get the word outthrough our social media.
And because I know people wouldjust love to be involved Now I
would be remiss not to pass thislast hot potato by you.
(31:59):
Do you have any comment on thewhales that are washing ashore
and the overall effect of thewindmills?
What you?
when I look at it, i seewindmills in the path of these
whales.
You know they're putting themright in the migration path, but
I know I kind of know where youare and what you do.
(32:19):
It may not be easy for you tocomment.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (32:23):
Right, all I know is that, you know,
i've been trying to keep up onit And this morning I was
reading something that waslinked through, you know, a
fishery website that you know.
I guess the official word onsome of the ones that were found
this weekend were vesselstrikes.
George Scocca (32:37):
Yeah, No, I agree , but how come no one ever
mentions is they seem to be morevessel strikes.
So maybe I'm wrong, but I don'tthink I am.
Maybe they're being disorientedAnd that's why they're getting
whacked by ships.
No one ever brings that pointup.
And the other thing issomeone's got to tell these
(33:00):
people, you know, oh, you know,climate change is not the
biggest threat to the whales.
They've been here for 50, butthey've been through a lot of
cooling and warming And we'rethe only threat right now.
But anyway, I had to get thatout.
I have to.
I've been all over, you know,all over.
It's from two years ago, youknow, they laid it all out.
(33:21):
They laid it all out.
But anyway, Scott, you are agreat guest and I am going to
have you on.
And when do you think you'regoing to have that PCB study
complete?
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (33:33):
I'd love to touch base with you Well
if you're allowed to, if youalways know, I can tell you that
you know we'll be done.
Cornell's involvement, as faras working with the industry and
obtaining the samples andworking the samples up, You know
we're done this year.
as for the analysis, That's outof our hands.
George Scocca (33:52):
Okay, yeah, all right, good enough, i'll.
I got enough people I speak toover there and he'll give it to
us, yeah, and we know.
Scott Curitolo Wageman (34:00):
Anything we get.
We try to pass on to theindustry as much as we know.
That's great.
George Scocca (34:05):
Scott, look, i you know.
I appreciate you taking thetime and explaining to our
audience that there are peopleout there that actually work
with the end and recreationalfishermen.
I'm glad you brought that upand that you're working on
getting those pots, those ghostpots.
That we're all you know.
We all know what's going on.
(34:26):
We've all snagged one, we'veall seen, yeah.
So keep up the good work withthat.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (34:32):
Yeah, and again that's another thing
You know if you were yourlisteners.
Again, you know the specificplace.
You guys have the knowledge Andagain that's how we started
this with the commercialindustry.
They knew where pots were Andyou know if we can put something
together again, you got video.
Then that just can certainly gointo a grant submission and you
(34:53):
know that would probably be aLong Island.
Sound Future Funds grant comingup within the next month.
They're going to announce that,so that would be the perfect
opportunity that you know ifyou've got some good sonar
images or drone images oranything.
George Scocca (35:08):
Oh, yeah, have drone area where there's pots.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (35:11):
You know that that that will help a
proposal and you know help thethe chances that it'll get
funded.
George Scocca (35:18):
Absolutely.
A picture is, as they say, athousand words, and it's not
nothing truer than that when itcomes to fisheries, because
people you know fish are underthe water and they never see
what's going on.
If you give them actual videoand they see this fish trapped
in a pot being killed, they'regoing to think differently.
So, all right, scott, look,thanks.
(35:39):
So again, send me whatever youhave and I'll get it up on our
website, and I'll also, you know, be reaching out to some of our
friends.
You know recreational folksthat I think might be interested
in helping out with this.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (35:55):
Yeah, great.
George Scocca (35:56):
All right.
So thanks again, scott.
We'll talk again soon.
Thanks.
Scott Curitolo Wagemann (36:00):
Okay, thank you.
George Scocca (36:01):
Bye, bye, bye.
Well, there you have it, folks.
Let's get those fish killersout of the long on sound.
Thanks for listening.
All, please subscribe to thechannel.
I could use all the support Icould get as I tried to advocate
for the recreational angler andthe recreational fishing
(36:22):
industry, and with always theresource in mind.
You can see me, or see me visitme, over at my anglercom.
I'm there each and every dayalong with a group of really
fine, knowledgeable fishermenand fishing ladies.
That's why we call it New YorkAngler.
(36:42):
Well, i'll see you folks soon.
I have episode after episodethat'll be pumping out.
Good luck, good fishing, and Ihope you guys and gals get out
there soon and enjoy what's soonto be the best fishing New York
has to offer.
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