November 22, 2023 • 55 mins
Ever wondered about the similarities between Thanksgiving and fishing? Thanksgiving is a time of abundance and gratitude, and in our latest podcast episode, we find these same sentiments echo in the world of fishing. Joined by our guest, Desi O'Sullivan from Celtic Quest, we take you on a journey through the thrill of fishing, the love for the ocean, and the importance of preserving its resources.
The world of fishing isn't always smooth sailing. We address the heartbreaking decline of the blackfish population, a concern deeply felt by us, as experienced blackfish fishermen. Through a candid discussion, we seek solutions to restore the fishery's former glory and highlight the contrast to the flourishing seabass fishery. We also delve into the evolution of Long Island Sound's fishery and the importance of accurate fisheries data for sustainable practices.
Taking a trip down memory lane, Captain George Bachert shares a special memory of a remarkable charter trip. Technology and the internet have transformed the fishing experience, and we navigate through these changes, reminiscing about the early days. We also recount the impact of the Norriscom website on the angling community, underlining the unity brought about by this shared passion. It's not just about the catch; it's the magic of fishing and the bonds forged which truly make these journeys memorable. Join us, as we sail through these waves of stories and experiences, each one unique, each one unforgettable.
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Episode Transcript
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George Scocca (00:00):
Welcome back to the New York Fishing Podcast,
where the thrill to the castmeets the hearts of New York's
waters as Thanksgivingapproaches.
Let's dive into the parallelsbetween this festive season and
our fishing adventures.
Thanksgiving, folks, is morethan just turkey and trimmings.
(00:23):
It's a celebration of bounty.
And what speaks of bounty?
More than our vast, vibrantoceans?
There are playgrounds, ourpantry, providing us not just
with sport but substance, muchlike the first Thanksgiving
feast the crisp morning air, thecalm waters, the anticipation
(00:46):
as you cast your line, mirroringthe excitement of Thanksgiving
preparations.
Each catch is a story, avictory, a moment of gratitude,
much like each dish on ourThanksgiving table.
This year, as we gather, let'sraise a toast to the waters that
(01:07):
connect us, to the fish thatchallenge and fascinate us.
Let's be thankful for the pullson our lines and the fish tales
that follow, for thecamaraderie among anglers and
for the oceans' gifts that justkeep on giving.
So here's to tight lines andtall tales this Thanksgiving,
(01:33):
remember, every cast is a storywaiting to unfold and every
catch a reason to be thankful.
Stay hooked and have afish-tastic Thanksgiving.
Today we embark on a journey notjust across the sparkling
(01:53):
waters of New York, but througha tale of resilience, community
and the unbreakable spirit of afisherman.
Our story begins with a partyboat, not unlike many boats that
dot our shores, but with adestiny that almost slipped away
into the depths.
Picture this a fledglingbusiness, a boat bobbing on the
(02:17):
waves, more often anchored bydespair than by hope.
There were days, many days,when the phone laid silent, as
still as a sea on a windless day.
Advertisements and papersseemed like messages and bottles
, lost in an ocean ofindifference.
But then, amidst the struggle,an engine fails, a transmission
(02:43):
blows.
It seems like the final anchordragging down the dreams to the
seabed.
But as every season fishermanknows, the ocean is full of
surprises.
Enter Norriscom, a beacon onthe digital horizon.
A simple post, a few picturesof a triumphant blackfish trip,
(03:07):
and suddenly the tide began toturn.
In minutes, the silent phonebecame a siren, the song of hope
, calls poured in, bookingsfilled the calendar and the boat
that once drifted in despairnow sailed on waves of success.
This wasn't just a turnaround,it was a transformation powered
(03:31):
by a community of passionateanglers, united by a shared love
for the sport.
A tradition was born theNorriscom Charter, a gathering
of enthusiasts from behind theirscenes, casting lines as
friends, not just usernames.
Together they wrote chapters ofunforgettable memories, a
(03:55):
bounty full of catches and ofbonds forged over the thrill of
the catch and the peace of thesea.
So as we navigate through thisepisode, we will dive deeper
into the story of the CelticQuest.
I'd like to welcome a very goodfriend of mine and a great guest
(04:22):
and a great fisherman and agreat person from a great family
, I guess all around the guy isgreat.
I'm speaking to Desi O'Sullivanfrom the Celtic Quest.
I called Celtic Quest years ago.
Frank Delickey called it CelticQuest.
Which one is it, by the way?
But everyone you prefer, staywith Celtic, all right, so he's
(04:47):
with the Celtic Quest.
This is a man who, desi, had alot of foresight, and that's not
because he recognized Norrisright in the beginning.
There were a lot of things thatI learned about Desi First time
I ever went fishing with himand we were mohawking these
(05:09):
monster blackfish, and I meanmohawking them.
It was crazy and all he wasdoing was he wasn't telling us
all to throw all our fish back,but he wanted us to throw a lot
of fish back because he was likewe got to save these fish and
this was at a time when therewas a lot of fish and in my mind
(05:34):
I knew he was right and I'mgoing to say we look at what
happened today and, des, youwere right.
So talk to me a little bitabout blackfishing today, gosh.
Desi O Sullivan (05:49):
I missed those days, george, you and I had some
absolutely amazing tripstogether when and some of my
fondest memories are when youbring the staff from the
nor'eastcom out, the all themoderator we had some absolutely
epic trips.
It was amazing.
(06:09):
We were really fortunate to befishing together at that time
when the eastern Long IslandSound, particularly, was very
untapped.
There wasn't a lot of fishingpressure and all the potting and
everything hadn't taken itstoll yet.
So, yeah, we used to go outthere and have some unbelievable
trips and definitely alwaysthought ahead to say we really
(06:32):
have to protect this resource,which unfortunately was not
protected nearly well enough,and today it's a far cry from
what it used to be.
And we were blessed to havethose amazing trips and I'll
cherish them for the rest of mylife.
I remember one in particularwith you and your team, and the
(06:53):
couple days before you came outI found a new wreck, a really
small wreck.
It was about the size of a car,maybe just a little tiny piece
and I quickly tried it and the25 rods went off instantly and I
said, oh geez, okay, let's savethis, because we already had a
ton of fish in the boat on aparticular trip.
So I was like I know George iscoming out with all the staff
(07:16):
and you guys were greatcustomers of ours and great
friends and I said you know what?
This is going to be a specialdrop for that trip and we had
already had a great day.
My customers have plenty offish.
So we wrapped up, we went homeand I remember going out with
you and we wailed on them.
We had hundreds and hundreds ofblack fish and we had so many
(07:41):
that we ended up throwing backlike 50 or 100 keepers at the
end of the day just catchingthem.
George Scocca (07:47):
I'm never forgetting that.
Desi O Sullivan (07:49):
Remember we were just like, oh god, I don't
know, it was a beautiful day, wedidn't want to go home.
But yeah, you and I were justsaying and, and it was
unbelievable.
And I think back to those daysnow I can't even the thought of
catching that much that youcould be releasing them like
that, or I just it was.
I knew it was special what washappening in those years but.
(08:14):
I didn't you wish you could goback in time and really truly
appreciate it even more, becausethose trips were so epic you
just never knew.
I don't know we'll ever see itagain, and I cherish them.
There's some of my fondestmemories fishing with you and
your team, and the good old days.
Now it's just another fishstory.
George Scocca (08:35):
No, no, you know what the truth is.
So many of us feel that way.
Right, it was so special.
Noriex was new, the internetwas new, you were new.
I remember going out, you hadthat smaller boat in the
beginning.
And here we are.
Think about the people thatwere on that boat, right?
(08:56):
So we had Kill Swung, we hadAlberto, we had Johnny Skinner,
we had myself, we had Kris Bees,we had one Ralphie, we had
every Sharpie.
I think that there was a LongIsland and they loved fishing
with you and together, thecamaraderie.
(09:18):
Those were special days thatwill be tough to ever repeat.
But again, I'm gonna stress, Iremember you saying we got to
keep this fish, we, we got tolet a lot of these fish go.
Granted, we were way over thelimit, but the fact is I fish
with you and we fish with youmany times and you always, you
(09:40):
knew, and we all knew, how muchcould it take, but those were
great days.
Desi O Sullivan (09:46):
Yeah, it was a remarkable time and, like I say,
I was just super fortunate tobe starting my business with
such an incredible fishery totap into.
Like I said, the eastern soundwas there was not a lot of
fishing pressure at the time.
A lot of the bottom was a lotof the wrecks and stuff were not
(10:09):
fished yet undiscovered and sowhen you found a piece, it was
incredible, it was absolutelyincredible.
And, yeah, going with all thoseguys like the people you just
named back in the day and we hadso many wonderful trips and now
I don't know, I it's so sadthat right in front of our eyes
(10:31):
we saw that fishery and, listen,we bought a lot of fish.
Right, I'm not.
I was fortunate to, to have anamazing fishery and we certainly
contributed to the demise ofthe blackfish, but it was such a
tiny percent that we werecatching and sharing with
thousands of customers over thecourse of the of our fishing
(10:54):
seasons, compared to thepressure that was put on by the
potting and all the black marketstuff that was going on.
And we watched that and wouldrant and rave at the meetings.
I remember seeing you theremany years saying, hey, we got
to do something about thisfishery like we got to preserve
this.
This fishery had maintaineditself as a healthy recreational
(11:19):
fishery for decades, leading upto the 90s, where the price tag
was put on the heads ofblackfish for live blackfish and
we were watching the pots justblow up year after year, just
pots and pots.
There was areas where Icouldn't even get into anymore
because the pots were sonumerous and watching these
(11:39):
boats come in and out of theharbour two, three, four times a
day, with hundreds of blackfishbeing thrown into these ends
and shipped into the city andand no record of them and the
sadly they just did a number onthe population and it's never
recovered well, that level ofthat quality fishing again it
(12:03):
breaks my heart at that becauseit's absolutely my favorite
fishing and we were lucky we gotto enjoy it when it was going
on and and I hope it comes back.
I hope it comes back, but it'sjust a far cry from what it used
to be you know what there's.
George Scocca (12:17):
So you and I, we can relate.
I was always a tug fisherman inbefore I met you, but I always
knew that it was just a matterof time they were once we
started finding them.
I just knew and you knew, and Iremember we had a 10 fish limit
(12:38):
.
Imagine that, folks, it was a10 fish bag limit.
I don't even know if there wasa minimum size, but we would go
and Desi would basicallywouldn't tell us, but he'd urge
us not to keep the 10 and hewould talk to me about we should
be keeping four fish.
(12:59):
I'm upset, that's come on, man,that's 10.
Now you want to go to four andyou're like it's gonna be a year
or two and there's only gonnabe four and it's hard for me.
Not hard for me, but when Ithink about that.
We've lived this in such a shorttime.
We have seen this fishery whichwas phenomenal.
(13:24):
I can remember being a kid offive years old and my father
taking me at a Kings Park on afive horsepower freaking Johnson
, and I don't care where youstopped that boat.
You were loading up withblackfish, you were loading up
with flounder.
You and I, we have seen thisthing go from this phenomenal,
(13:47):
world-class one place in thewhole world fishery to now it's
a managed fishery that's beingmanaged to have small fish.
I've said that from thebeginning when you have the
commercial limit where it's atand you have the potting the way
it's happening our fish you'regonna average 14 and a half to
(14:12):
17.
A big fish gonna be 18.
Hopefully you're gonna get thatreal big one.
Desi O Sullivan (14:17):
But when you get that real big one you almost
want to let it go right this ohman, when I see the big ones
come up now I'm like, yeah, Ihate when I hate to keep them, I
really do me too.
They're so far.
In between we'll get theoccasional eight, ten pounder,
but it's that used to be everyday.
Oh, it was common.
(14:39):
It was always a ten pounder oreight pounder was nothing.
Back in the day we'd havedozens of them.
And yeah, now you don't see andI don't know, I don't know.
A couple of years we had somegreat short life and there was
some optimism.
Maybe there's a new classcoming through.
(14:59):
But you know, they did start.
Finally, after 20 years of thisfishery getting pounded, they
finally started with tags thelast couple years, which was a
good step.
Yes, we were asking for thatyears ago.
If they just started with tags,maybe it could have slowed down
(15:20):
the black market.
I mean, I remember being in thefisheries meetings and they
would say the commercial, therecreational fishermen, account
for 90% of this fishery andtherefore we have to cut them
back or whatever.
And I'm like there's a.
I could literally tell youcertain ports and whatnot that
(15:41):
single handedly, one or twocommercial guys down the black
market were counting forthousands of black fish.
Just right there and none of itwas being recorded.
It was all under the table andof course, none of that makes it
into the data with which theydecide our regulations and
(16:02):
therefore they.
The problem was never addressed.
They was focusing on therecreational, which I was fine.
Having limits on therecreational side, that was all
good, but the fact that theyjust let the free-for-all
continue while they caught usback was it was like we were
just screaming.
We see that in every fishery.
George Scocca (16:25):
Think about it.
They're doing it to us rightnow in fluke.
They're doing it to us rightnow in seabass.
It's look, the fishery was finefor centuries, not decades.
Centuries until they found away to catch them in pots.
(16:46):
Hook and line fishermen are notthe reason that those fish have
left.
We always caught them on hookand line and oh yeah, people are
gonna go, oh, we got, so no now, so we found them.
That's not what did it.
What did it is what I just sawyesterday.
You might know this, but rightnow live black fish in some
(17:12):
Korean markets or Asian marketsin the city are going for 25
pounds of pound, 25.
You catch a 10 fish.
10 pound fish is 250 bucks andthey're getting it.
I have the video, I've seen it,I know it's happening.
I don't say anything unless Iknow it's for real.
(17:35):
And how are the fish going tomake it at that value?
How they're going to make it?
They're not.
A few things need to be done.
What you know the potting sizeand the recreational size needs
to be changed, needs to be atleast the same.
(17:56):
If not, I think that thecommercial comms should be a
little bit higher.
But I don't even want to gothere.
But when you think about it,it's not the wreck angler that
destroyed that fishery and nowwe have this fishery that's
going to have just like StripePass.
(18:16):
We're going to end up justhaving a bunch of keepers for
everybody and the day of the bigfish, sadly, is over unless we
make some serious changes.
Desi O Sullivan (18:29):
Yeah, and it breaks my heart, George, because
like you, I cherished blackfishing and it built my business
.
I'll always be grateful forhaving fished the years that I
did and I just I don't even knowwhat to say to a helpless
feeling watching it slowly getworse and worse every year.
(18:52):
And now for us it's amazing,back in the day, on the moons
and stuff, when things were alittle slower, if we caught 50,
60 keepers, that was our slowtrip and I only took 25 guys out
at the time.
50 keepers was our slow day.
And we tell them I'll come backoff the moon, it'll be good
again.
Now I think about 50 keepers isour normal decent day.
(19:15):
Now we catch 50 keepers, we'rehappy.
That's our good trip.
Now it's just, it'sunbelievable.
George Scocca (19:22):
And our lifetime.
Do you feel that oldness?
Do you feel like you've beenaround that long that the change
should be as drastic as it is?
Or did it happen so much fasterthan you ever expected?
Desi O Sullivan (19:38):
I don't know because I've watched so many
other fisheries thrive at thesame time.
So, for example, seabassfishing has been extraordinary
and it's gotten better and we'reat 16 and a half inches this
year and we're still going outand catching 100 keepers and
limiting out the boat I livedtwo days ago I was out and we
(19:59):
limit about the boat withbeautiful.
We were throwing them back.
We had too many we couldn't getaway from.
I had to leave the drop.
I had 50 foot of seabassunderneath the boat.
If I showed you a screenshot,you can blow your mind how many
seabass there were.
So we never used to have thatin the sound when I was a kid
working on the boats.
If we caught two or threeseabass for the trip that were
(20:22):
12 inches, we were happy.
Oh yeah, so you watch otherfisheries thrive, like seabass
and porgy.
Porgy fishing is as good asit's ever been Fantastic.
Thank God for porgy and seabassbecause that's become the
mainstay of our business andpeople still can come out and
they can fill a bucket of fishand the kids catch and the
(20:43):
families catch and that's beenour staple.
I missed the flukin and theblack fishing but thank God at
least we have the great bottomfishing, so those are doing
great, and striped bass fishingthis year was the best I've ever
seen it.
The amount of striped bass thatI don't sound this year was
(21:03):
more than I've seen my entirelife.
It was amazing andcoincidentally they cut that
back to a three inch slot thisyear when there's more bass than
anyone knows what to do with.
George Scocca (21:13):
Well, you know what, Dad?
You've got to listen to acouple of my past podcasts.
You are joining the choir herebecause everyone's saying the
same thing and if you want tohear my take on it, I don't care
if you want to hear it or not,I'm going to give it to you, oh,
so you say whatever you want.
So here's the way I see it.
(21:35):
I mean, look, fisheriesmanagement lacks common sense.
I say it all the time.
So it's only common sense.
So the flukes seem to be moving.
Maybe they're going north, wedon't know that everything's
moving.
All of a sudden we got thesesea bass.
We never had them.
The other cold water fish seemto be leaving a little bit, I
(21:57):
don't know.
They may be moving.
And you know, now here we arewith this great sea bass fishery
, which we never had before, andnow we have more striped bass
we ever had before.
But I'm not sure if you knowthis or not, but I'm on top of
(22:20):
this whole thing.
We are going to see a totalmoratorium next year in the
spring for the striped bass.
Get ready, it's coming.
You haven't heard it.
I'm telling you, dad, as youknow, I'm always right there,
and I'm telling you yeah, it'sgoing to be a moratorium.
(22:42):
And let me tell you why.
Here's where the common sensegoes out the window.
So the numbers in the Y-O-Y,the young of the year, the small
ones that they find in theChesapeake, are like
non-existent.
There are no.
The Y-O-Y is falling off theplanet down there.
(23:03):
So what does that tell youDon't tell me our striper
fishery is better than it's everbeen.
We've seen, you're seeing themon the East end.
Imagine what that New York biteis saying.
So we're going to, we're goingto end up in a moratorium.
We basically fish a moratorium.
(23:24):
It's 28 to 31 inches.
Your shot's one out of 100.
Get one of those.
But they are going to eliminatethat to save the Chesapeake Bay
.
Now, what is what does thespring fishery in New York, the
spring fishery in New York, haveto do with the Chesapeake?
(23:44):
Nothing, nothing, none of ourfish here are going to
Chesapeake.
They're here and they'restaying here.
But because of, I don't know,crazy management, no,
commonsense management, desi,I'm afraid you're going to hear
(24:05):
about a and start to think nowand listening and they may just
make it a western shutdown.
So all of those boats, all ofthose guys had been practicing
catch and release and they justgo out there to catch those fish
and let them go Hoping to getthat 28, 31 inch lottery slot
(24:30):
fish.
They're all going to be shutdown.
You tell me how a draw McMurraywith all his boats and there's
so many of them carrying in.
I go on and on.
They live on that fishery.
They're going to shut it downfor no reason.
I hope I'm wrong.
I think I'm right.
Desi O Sullivan (24:47):
Are you?
Going to see that it wouldtragic if they did that, and I
liken it to the collapse of thelobster fishing in Long Island.
George Scocca (24:57):
When.
Desi O Sullivan (24:57):
I started my business, there used to be 25
boats out of Mount Santa Barbaraalone, in and out every day,
thriving lobster fishery.
And then something happened,not sure what climate change,
the pesticide spraying,something killed the lobsters
and they're no longer there.
But the lobster fishery?
(25:18):
Everything was shifting norththere and lobsters were at the
southern end of their range thisparticular species.
Perhaps the water just formedup too much, nobody knows right.
But the lobster fish up northand Maine was still extremely
good.
But imagine, they shut down thelobster fishing up in Maine
because Long Island Sound wasnow depleted.
(25:39):
That's basically what they'redoing with the striped bass and
everything that you're startingwith, because Long Island.
Sound no longer has lobsters.
Therefore we can't fish forlobsters trap lobsters in Maine
anymore.
It just makes no sense.
George Scocca (25:55):
No.
And what happens if everythingelse, the striped bass which
they have gotten, the YOLnumbers in the Chesapeake every
year.
Now what happens if they movedout of there?
They move it north.
There's somewhere else.
They're not where they look.
They go to look for them.
(26:16):
So we can't fish until theysomehow find these fish.
I'm telling you, nobody knowsbetter than you, we've been
through it all.
But think about it as, as timegone that fast.
Think about what we had andwhere we are.
(26:37):
I can remember getting on PetePearson's party boat, 200 bucks
ahead.
We would run to the canyon andwe would load up on bluefin and
we would come home.
That's over.
Everything is that we did thenis over.
But something else is taking itback Now, me and myself.
(26:59):
I would much rather fight ablackfish but I'd much rather
eat a sea bass.
I would be fine If these seabass numbers stay.
I'll be fine.
But I'm a firm believer, des, Idon't know if you know this,
but I've done a lot of homeworkon it.
(27:19):
In fact I have a podcast on it.
We have an estimated 1.1million pots that are ghost pots
.
They're laying on the bottom ofNew York Sound, long Island
Sound.
Think of that over a millionpots ghost pots.
Desi O Sullivan (27:45):
Now we still after they did all the cleanup.
They did a massive cleanup thelast couple of years.
George Scocca (27:49):
Yeah, you know what?
They got 17,000 and all of thepots that they got from the
lobstermen that left the potsthere.
They just went back and gotthem, got paid for.
But as of right now I can'tremember the guy's name.
He's the greatest guy ever.
He's out there trying to getthese pots and they're getting
(28:10):
them at a rate of 10 to 15,000 ayear.
There's a million of them.
Do you know that?
They told me they finally theyjust got side scan to find these
pots.
They just got side scans so far.
How long have you had that?
Desi O Sullivan (28:25):
Really.
George Scocca (28:26):
They just got it this year.
So think about it if there'sone blackfish and you, I'm sure
you've encountered some pots Ifthere's one blackfish in each
pot, it's a million fish, amillion.
Look, there's a lot we could do.
(28:47):
I'm glad, though, that you'vegot those porgis, and you got
those sea bass, and whathappened?
Bluefishes year over there.
Desi O Sullivan (28:56):
Let me just make one more comment about the
sea bass fish.
George Scocca (28:59):
Go ahead.
Desi O Sullivan (29:00):
Because it absolutely boggles my mind the
amount of sea bass we run into,especially out of Matta Talk in
the Eastern Sound this time ofyear.
Like I said, if I sent you ascreenshot from the other day,
there was literally thousandsand thousands of them on one
(29:20):
wreck, wow, and I just caught atiny little bit of it.
It's funny because you and thenin the herd moves so you can go
back the next day and it'sblank.
But when you run into theseherds of fish like I just wish I
could grab the fisheryscientists and be like come here
, count now.
George Scocca (29:40):
Yeah, really.
It's like on this one spotunderneath the boat.
Desi O Sullivan (29:44):
I'll send you a screenshot when we're done.
You'll just you won't believeit, and it's one pot.
George Scocca (29:51):
Their whole view will change, yeah.
Desi O Sullivan (29:53):
Yeah, and they don't realize the amount of it
and that's just my one littlespot.
I'm literally thousands of fish.
I'll be in a hundred feet ofwater and they'll read from the
all the way top to bottomthrough the whole water column
sea bass.
That is crazy and we've beenrunning into these schools now
for a couple of years and it'samazing.
(30:15):
When you find them, the wholeboat limits out.
You catch double headers andthey're big and even at 16 and a
half inches we're still able tocatch a limit and thank God for
that and it's really.
That is as epic as sea bassLike remember back in the winter
fishery going on the bigJamaica and stuff out in Texas
town on sea bass.
(30:36):
Now we do that in freaking LongIsland Sound, which I never
thought that would happen.
But that's been an incredibleevolution of that fishery and
we're mother nature give it andtake it away.
And right now she's reallyhooked us up with that one and
that's really gets people goingand makes the trip worthwhile.
And hey, if you can catch acouple of blackfish but then you
(30:58):
go put half a dozen beautifulbig sea bass in the cooler, it
makes for a good day.
So that's what's keeping usgoing and it's making for a good
product here and the people arevery happy with it and that's
keeping us going.
But again, sometimes when theytell us these numbers, I just
want to run my own survey andbring them out and have them see
(31:22):
what I see in Long Island Sound.
And we're not even at theepicenter where the sea bass
population migrates, we're justcatching the fringe that comes
into Long Island Sound here andthat's how abundant they are.
And I remember and porgy's aswell.
I remember one day, george,with my side scan sonar, that I
had on my boat, I had a schoolof porgy's that ran along the
(31:47):
edge of one of the shoals whenthey came in spawning and the
school of fish was like 15 to 20feet high off the bottom but
about at least 100 to 150 feetacross.
When I picked it up with mysonar right and I was like, wow,
let me keep seeing how longthis school runs for.
(32:09):
And I followed the contour lineof the shoal and I ran for a
solid mile scanning the school.
That was again 150 feet widthby 20 feet high and a mile long
until I finally reached the endof the school and I reckon there
(32:29):
had to be probably upwards of amillion fish there easily, if
you think about it.
George Scocca (32:36):
And that was just in more than a second.
Desi O Sullivan (32:39):
And you're like , how do they quantify this?
And then tell us and you know,that was the day that they
restricted the regulations thatyear because there wasn't enough
of them and they had cut usback.
George Scocca (32:52):
I don't mean to laugh, but there's times when
you're like are you kidding me?
And they're doing it now, atthe best.
Desi O Sullivan (32:58):
That was absolutely one of them.
I wanted to literally take myscreenshots and send it to Noah
Fisheries and be like what isgoing?
George Scocca (33:07):
on here.
Yes, I went to.
I'm almost ashamed to say it,but I'm the representative for
the recreational angler on weakfish in New York and I can't
remember going to a meeting andit was a year.
It was years ago, maybe eight,10 years ago, when the party
boats down in New York by dayarea were getting them pretty
(33:31):
good.
So I get to this meeting andI'm looking at the numbers and
the number says that New Yorktotaled 150 pounds of weak fish
for the whole year.
And I'm looking at him like Iown a fishing magazine.
I get fishing reports every dayand I can tell you right now
(33:52):
there were more pounds caughtlast night in New York fight
than you have for the wholeseason here.
Those numbers are still there.
They're still as, they're stillpart of their, their entire.
How do you want to say it?
They're the little course thatthey have there.
(34:15):
I don't know, man, the numbersare always changing.
They're never seemed to beright.
But I gotta say one thing Look,I owned a fishing magazine
forever, 30-some-odd years atthe first fishing website ever.
When I say that to people thatyou don't believe it, you know
(34:35):
for a fact.
If you put fishing in Yahoo, Iwas it?
I've seen it all and I gottatell you this I've dealt with
every business owner there is,and so many.
There was the guy you wanted todeal with, or gal you wanted to
deal with.
They were the ones you dealtwith, and then there were the
(34:59):
ones that you really didn't wantto deal with.
What I want to tell you?
You were in the top tier, youwere just.
You were such a supporter andyou helped make me a success.
Desi O Sullivan (35:12):
I appreciate that, george, that's really nice
to hear, and we took care ofeach other.
Your business absolutelylaunched my business and I never
could have done what I did as ayoung kid starting out.
I almost went out of businesstwice when I first started
(35:33):
Because I was literally gettingfares in to put fuel in my tank
so I could fish the next day,and then I blew my engine.
I blew my transmission.
My sister bailed me out with aloan and but if it wasn't for
your site I'll never forget thisI was doing so bad my first
(35:53):
season that I was literallygoing.
Maybe I'd get out two trips aweek.
When I first started I'm like,oh, this would be easy.
You put an ad in the paper andthe people will just start
coming.
But that's not how it works andI would go days and days.
My phone would not ring and youhad just started your fishing
site, thank God.
And I was doing so bad.
(36:15):
I was about to go out ofbusiness because I was out of
money and I was doing so bad.
I had to go beg for my old jobback running another party boat
and then I ended up runninganother party boat in Port Jeff,
so I was showing up thererunning that party boat just to
make fuel money so I could runmy boat on the weekend with two
(36:38):
or three fares that would showup.
And somehow I managed to makeit through the season to
blackfish season and I knew Ihad good blackfish drops lined
up because I had been searchingfor them for years and I knew if
I could go blackfishing maybesomeone would want to come with
me.
And my first day outblackfishing I went out, we
(37:00):
wailed on.
I had two customers we wailedon fish and these two customers
were like beside themselves.
I took pictures, whatever, andI was like you know what?
There's this new website,norriscom.
Let me go put some pictures upon that website, maybe that will
help.
This is way back in the day.
And I went and posted thatnight and within I kid you not
(37:22):
15 minutes my phone startedringing and ringing and I'm like
whoa, something just happenedhere.
And that next day I somehow oranother got eight fares to come
with me the next day and we wentout again and we wailed on fish
again.
I took pictures of my olddigital camera, like a two
megapixel or something like thatyeah.
(37:44):
When you put the SD card.
It would take like 20 minutesto upload the pictures to your
website with the little beachball spinning, but I was like I
had to do that and after thesecond day of posting on your
site, my phone started ringingoff the hook.
And because black fishermen arecrazy bunch, oh still are.
(38:05):
So passionate and they couldn'tbelieve that, wow, there's some
new boat in Mount Sinai.
No one had ever heard of themgoing out and whaling on
blackfish.
I got to check this out andthen I started getting the calls
from all like the hardcoreblackfish guys Alberto and the
EC Newell men, like all theseguys that you talk about.
(38:26):
Oh yeah.
They started hey, is this real?
Are you really catchingblackfish like this?
Because there weren't manyboats that were hardcore
blackfish in those years.
Not at all.
And then I ended up my nexttrip because of the posting on
your site.
I was sold out with 25 peopleand we went out.
We'd limit it out again, whaledon fish, took pictures now of
(38:48):
25 people, posted those on yoursite and they all started
chatting with each other on yourforum telling the fishing
stories that how great fishingwas.
And do you know that for therest of the season I was sold
out every single trip, everysingle trip.
George Scocca (39:05):
I was sold out.
I got to tell you something,desi.
I don't want to cut your shoeup, but I got to tell you.
That is one of the mostrewarding stories I have ever
heard, only because I reallylike you as a person.
And to hear you say that I knewwhat's going on and no one was
(39:27):
admitting it at the time becausethey were afraid I was going to
charge them, which my priceswere always very inexpensive.
But to hear you say that meansmore to me than anything you
could possibly imagine.
Desi O Sullivan (39:42):
George you have no idea Like I think back about
those days and weeks.
I had literally had a day wherethat fall I had no money.
I had blown my transmission.
It was like $12,000.
I literally went to bed thatnight saying you know what I'm
done, at some point you can'tkeep digging a hole like that.
(40:04):
I was tens of thousands in debt.
And I went to bed that night andI said you know what I tried?
Whatever just not meant to be,I'm not going to be a party boat
fisherman, I'll do somethingelse.
And I woke up that next morning.
I don't know what overtained me, but I was like you know what?
I know I can make this happen.
I know I can figure this out.
(40:24):
I'm just I'm freaking goingfishing again and I had two
fares again that day and I juststruggled through it up until
this moment that I told you withthe black fishing in your
website and after posting thoseand being sold out like that,
it's like the momentum justcatapulted and I got enough
(40:46):
money from those final weeks ofblack fishing, all from
Norriscom Like just the crazyblack fisherman on your chat
forums just going crazy.
It was like madness.
I could have filled the boatthree times over, because it was
like a starving audience justwanting to go black fishing, and
I scrounged enough moneytogether to keep the boat going
(41:09):
through the winter and then thatspring we used to have a great
spring black fishery as well.
So when I started, picked upfrom that momentum, as soon as I
posted on Norriscom hey, I'mgoing to go black fishing again.
Boom, the phone started ringing.
That's great I ended up having agreat season and I never looked
back and that next year was thefirst time that Norris Charter
(41:34):
started and hard to think backlike nobody ever did that it was
the first time that everyone onyour website and it was
arranged by Kilsong the greatKilsong, the one and only who
many of us fish with over theyears, and Mike Marks Togmaster
and EC Newellman and all theseguys who were like, hey, let's
(41:56):
all meet each other and gettogether.
And Kilsong that next yeararranged the first ever Norris
Charter.
It was the first one andeveryone came out from behind
the keyboard and your screennames oh, you're Togmaster,
you're Togslayer, you're Fluke,whatever.
Everyone's name was right andmet on my boat for the most epic
(42:20):
trip and we were so fortunate.
If I had to pick one day as afisherman that I could relive,
it would probably be this one.
But yeah, kilsong, it was thefirst ever Kilsong, that Norris
Charter.
Okay now.
George Scocca (42:36):
I'm going to add something to this that's going
to make it even, I believe, thatmuch more special, as we had
that food.
Remember we had the soup going.
Everybody was freaking out.
I had that big bowl of soup inthe middle of the boat and my
(42:58):
brother was there.
Guy rest his soul and it turnsout that was his last trip.
He had a fish and I don't knowif you recall, but he went out.
He fished for five minutes.
He was working the whole timegetting the food ready and my
brother fished for five minutesand he won the pool with an 11
(43:18):
pound blackfish.
He beat out John Skinner.
You saying that it really meansI'm a believer in faith and it
means a lot to me.
You saying that is a lot tothat trip.
Desi O Sullivan (43:37):
Yeah, that trip was so special because, again,
all these people were united forthe first time Through.
It was the when the internetwas still somewhat pure and
positive for oh, it was sobeautiful then.
Before all the freaking, kicktalk, nonsense and all this
(43:59):
other crap that's in thealgorithms that make us hate
each other, like all thisnonsense.
Back in the day, we just werefishermen, connecting and
enjoying our passion andlearning from one another and
making new friends.
I made so many friends throughNorriscom back in the day, but
that particular trip we wereblessed with it was 70, it was
(44:22):
November 1st.
I still have in my logbookNovember 1st.
And it was 70 degrees.
We're fishing in short sleeves.
I went to a virgin wreck that Ihad never fished before.
We caught 300 keepers and thensome, and it was flat calm and
we had the best day and allthese fishermen got to know each
other and then we had I waskill songs, but he was a sushi
(44:46):
chef and mammoth.
Oh, man, he was cutting thatstuff up A beautiful tray of
sashimi for everyone, oh my.
God, captain Neil was there.
Captain Neil filmed that withhis freaking camcorder back in
the day.
George Scocca (45:02):
Oh, he's still after fishing, I hear.
Desi O Sullivan (45:05):
Yeah, he came out with me this year.
But when I look back at allthose faces and we're like God.
We only knew how special thatwas.
That was the first manyphenomenal Nor'east charters.
Dozens of Nor'east charters andmany other different charter
masters started up over that inthat season.
For the next 10 years it waslike reached its peak and its
(45:28):
heyday and that was such a hugepart of my business, not only
for black fishing but flukefishing.
Tons of fluke charters and likethe whole Nor'east community
just came together in thoseyears and it was just a
remarkable time.
But that's what got me over thehump.
When you start a business, a lotof businesses really struggle
(45:50):
and that's why they go out ofbusiness.
They just can't make that.
They can't reach critical pointwhere the money coming in is
more than the money going out.
When you got to just pull them.
It's not easy.
Yeah, it was.
It wasn't easy, but I'm sothankful to have had that
opportunity and it was greatworking with you all those years
(46:11):
, george, like I say, you reliedon us boats for bringing
content to your site and verymuch we received in return
10-fold in business on helpingus grow and get the word out and
it was amazing.
The whole thing was amazing howit happened back in the day.
George Scocca (46:28):
Well, you know what we became family we really
did.
We all knew each other.
We were all you mentioned,larry.
You knew who it was Like.
We were all on a first namebasis.
You became look, there wereplenty of boats that would love
to have had the Nor'east crowd.
(46:50):
But when we met you and wefished with you, we knew this is
the guy we want to talk, fishwith from here on out and fluke
fish with and do whatever we gotto do.
I can only say I keep saying it, but I really mean it.
(47:12):
It's hard for me to believethat it's all gone by and it
happened so fast and the changethat has occurred in our
lifetime or not in all lifetime,but in our time in this fishery
(47:33):
.
Desi O Sullivan (47:34):
Yeah, it seems like a dream.
You know that back in the day,I mean, I remember, and when we
first started that I, we didn'thave smartphones, no, I would go
out.
I had a baby like I have a next, tell a flip phone.
George Scocca (47:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Desi O Sullivan (47:50):
But we would take pictures on the original
digital cameras and then pullout the SD cards, insert them
into the computer at night andit was like I think back about.
I remember the first timesomeone showed me a phone where
they could pull up a marineforecast on their phone and I
was like, wow, yeah.
George Scocca (48:09):
I remember a time you guys would grab our phones.
We weren't allowed on afreaking party about giving you
a phone.
Why You're going to mark myspot.
In the beginning, we actuallyhad to give up our phones.
You might have that, might havebeen before you, but there was
actually a time where we werenot allowed to hold our own
(48:30):
phones.
Desi O Sullivan (48:32):
Oh my god.
Yeah Well, started withhandheld GPS's and then went to
phones and now forget it.
I've had so many spots muggedit.
Now there's a map of the bottomyou can buy for 25 bucks with
an app.
It's like there are.
George Scocca (48:46):
There are no C and, as you can put them on the
spot, show them where it is,tell them what to do, and they
won't catch a thing and they'llnever go back.
So you got nothing to worryabout.
Desi O Sullivan (48:58):
That's been my experience.
I missed the day fishing with aLoran when it actually took
some skill to be able to get ona piece and go black fishing.
Now it's so easy with spotlocks and everything else, but
that's a whole other issue.
George Scocca (49:15):
We'll talk about that some other day.
Desi O Sullivan (49:19):
I did.
George Scocca (49:19):
I want to close this out with you, knowing that
you've always been special to meand your entire operation.
I've always had a ton ofrespect for, and as I do for,
many of the guys and gals thatyou know do what you do.
(49:41):
It's every other business youhave to do a crab shoot from one
day to the next.
Only you have to deal with somereal crazy stuff.
You got regulations that younever know what the hell is
going to come up.
You got fuel, you got docking.
You got insurance.
You got your boat blowing up.
You got God knows what.
(50:03):
And then, on top of that, yougot crazy regulations, the good
people that are good businesspeople, which I know you are
able to make it through, and youknow I'm so glad that you were
able to make a career out ofwhat you enjoyed.
Desi O Sullivan (50:23):
Thank you, george and as many people
helping me along the way, likeyourself and your business, and
by the grace of God, go I like.
I've been so, so lucky to dothis as a living and it's been a
great career.
It's been a hard career.
There's definitely a lot ofsleepless nights and moments of
(50:43):
frustration and just when youthink you're catching up, mother
nature keeps you tied to thedock with crappy weather for a
week.
But it's a labor of love andevery day I still get on the
boat with a smile on my face aswe steam out to the grounds and
I pinch myself and I say, man,I'm one lucky guy that this is
(51:03):
what I get to do with my life.
It's been nice sharing thatjourney with you for sure, and I
look forward to going fishingagain.
Be here, or be here or sunnyFlorida one day or wherever you
got it.
George Scocca (51:16):
Look, this was great.
I wish you're nothing but thebest.
Make sure you mohawk the fishand if, look, I don't tell
everyone that I'm snowboardingdown here in Florida, but I am
now.
So if you happen to be down inNaples, look me up and anyone
listening you could do that too.
I may not answer right away,but Desi's case I'm answering
(51:39):
George.
Alright, brother, you take careof yourself, and this was great
.
Desi O Sullivan (51:45):
Alright, george , take it easy.
Thanks so much for having me onthis.
George Scocca (51:49):
Hey, thank you so much for being on the show.
Desi O Sullivan (51:52):
Alright, take care, george.
George Scocca (51:54):
Our story today is more than just a tale of
fishing.
It's a saga of the human spirit, of fighting against the tide
and finding hope in the mostunexpected places.
Journeyed from the brink ofdespair, with engines failing
and debts mounting, to thethrill of a phone ringing with
(52:16):
promise.
Remember the days of the nearsilence, broken only by the
hopes that someone somewherewould answer the call.
And then the transformationNorriscom.
Not just a website but alifeline, a platform that
connected us, that brought ourstories to the world.
(52:37):
Each picture posted, each storyshared became a beacon calling
to all of our fellow anglers,from the first successful
blackfish trip to the phoneringing off the hook.
It was a journey of rediscovery, of realizing that our passion
could indeed be our livelihood.
(52:58):
And then the Norris Charter, agathering that transcended the
digital realm, bringing togethera community of anglers united
not just by a website but by ashared passion that runs as deep
as the ocean itself.
We remember all of our greatmembers, architects, and all the
(53:22):
many friendships that blossomedon the Celtic quest.
There's a certain magic inthese memories, a reminder that,
amidst the turmoil of the world, the simple joy of fishing, of
sharing a bowl of soup and aboat can bring us closer than we
ever imagined.
We recall the triumphant catchof my beloved brother, a moment
(53:49):
etched in time, a testament tothe unexpected gifts that the
sea bestows upon all of us.
As we cast our thoughts back tothose days of unity and
discovery, let's hold on to thesense of wonder, that feeling of
being part of something largerthan ourselves.
(54:11):
The world may change,technologies may evolve, but the
heart of fishing, the soul ofour community, remains
unshakable.
So, as we sign off from thisepisode, let's carry these
stories with us as reminderswhere we've been and as beacons
(54:35):
guiding us to where we're headed, until we meet again.
This is your, your captain onthis journey through the waves
and wonders New York's sportfishing.
Keep your lines tight, yourhearts open and your memories
(54:55):
alive.
Welcome back to the New York Fishing Podcast,
where the thrill to the castmeets the hearts of New York's
waters as Thanksgivingapproaches.
Let's dive into the parallelsbetween this festive season and
our fishing adventures.
Thanksgiving, folks, is morethan just turkey and trimmings.
(00:23):
It's a celebration of bounty.
And what speaks of bounty?
More than our vast, vibrantoceans?
There are playgrounds, ourpantry, providing us not just
with sport but substance, muchlike the first Thanksgiving
feast the crisp morning air, thecalm waters, the anticipation
(00:46):
as you cast your line, mirroringthe excitement of Thanksgiving
preparations.
Each catch is a story, avictory, a moment of gratitude,
much like each dish on ourThanksgiving table.
This year, as we gather, let'sraise a toast to the waters that
(01:07):
connect us, to the fish thatchallenge and fascinate us.
Let's be thankful for the pullson our lines and the fish tales
that follow, for thecamaraderie among anglers and
for the oceans' gifts that justkeep on giving.
So here's to tight lines andtall tales this Thanksgiving,
(01:33):
remember, every cast is a storywaiting to unfold and every
catch a reason to be thankful.
Stay hooked and have afish-tastic Thanksgiving.
Today we embark on a journey notjust across the sparkling
(01:53):
waters of New York, but througha tale of resilience, community
and the unbreakable spirit of afisherman.
Our story begins with a partyboat, not unlike many boats that
dot our shores, but with adestiny that almost slipped away
into the depths.
Picture this a fledglingbusiness, a boat bobbing on the
(02:17):
waves, more often anchored bydespair than by hope.
There were days, many days,when the phone laid silent, as
still as a sea on a windless day.
Advertisements and papersseemed like messages and bottles
, lost in an ocean ofindifference.
But then, amidst the struggle,an engine fails, a transmission
(02:43):
blows.
It seems like the final anchordragging down the dreams to the
seabed.
But as every season fishermanknows, the ocean is full of
surprises.
Enter Norriscom, a beacon onthe digital horizon.
A simple post, a few picturesof a triumphant blackfish trip,
(03:07):
and suddenly the tide began toturn.
In minutes, the silent phonebecame a siren, the song of hope
, calls poured in, bookingsfilled the calendar and the boat
that once drifted in despairnow sailed on waves of success.
This wasn't just a turnaround,it was a transformation powered
(03:31):
by a community of passionateanglers, united by a shared love
for the sport.
A tradition was born theNorriscom Charter, a gathering
of enthusiasts from behind theirscenes, casting lines as
friends, not just usernames.
Together they wrote chapters ofunforgettable memories, a
(03:55):
bounty full of catches and ofbonds forged over the thrill of
the catch and the peace of thesea.
So as we navigate through thisepisode, we will dive deeper
into the story of the CelticQuest.
I'd like to welcome a very goodfriend of mine and a great guest
(04:22):
and a great fisherman and agreat person from a great family
, I guess all around the guy isgreat.
I'm speaking to Desi O'Sullivanfrom the Celtic Quest.
I called Celtic Quest years ago.
Frank Delickey called it CelticQuest.
Which one is it, by the way?
But everyone you prefer, staywith Celtic, all right, so he's
(04:47):
with the Celtic Quest.
This is a man who, desi, had alot of foresight, and that's not
because he recognized Norrisright in the beginning.
There were a lot of things thatI learned about Desi First time
I ever went fishing with himand we were mohawking these
(05:09):
monster blackfish, and I meanmohawking them.
It was crazy and all he wasdoing was he wasn't telling us
all to throw all our fish back,but he wanted us to throw a lot
of fish back because he was likewe got to save these fish and
this was at a time when therewas a lot of fish and in my mind
(05:34):
I knew he was right and I'mgoing to say we look at what
happened today and, des, youwere right.
So talk to me a little bitabout blackfishing today, gosh.
Desi O Sullivan (05:49):
I missed those days, george, you and I had some
absolutely amazing tripstogether when and some of my
fondest memories are when youbring the staff from the
nor'eastcom out, the all themoderator we had some absolutely
epic trips.
It was amazing.
(06:09):
We were really fortunate to befishing together at that time
when the eastern Long IslandSound, particularly, was very
untapped.
There wasn't a lot of fishingpressure and all the potting and
everything hadn't taken itstoll yet.
So, yeah, we used to go outthere and have some unbelievable
trips and definitely alwaysthought ahead to say we really
(06:32):
have to protect this resource,which unfortunately was not
protected nearly well enough,and today it's a far cry from
what it used to be.
And we were blessed to havethose amazing trips and I'll
cherish them for the rest of mylife.
I remember one in particularwith you and your team, and the
(06:53):
couple days before you came outI found a new wreck, a really
small wreck.
It was about the size of a car,maybe just a little tiny piece
and I quickly tried it and the25 rods went off instantly and I
said, oh geez, okay, let's savethis, because we already had a
ton of fish in the boat on aparticular trip.
So I was like I know George iscoming out with all the staff
(07:16):
and you guys were greatcustomers of ours and great
friends and I said you know what?
This is going to be a specialdrop for that trip and we had
already had a great day.
My customers have plenty offish.
So we wrapped up, we went homeand I remember going out with
you and we wailed on them.
We had hundreds and hundreds ofblack fish and we had so many
(07:41):
that we ended up throwing backlike 50 or 100 keepers at the
end of the day just catchingthem.
George Scocca (07:47):
I'm never forgetting that.
Desi O Sullivan (07:49):
Remember we were just like, oh god, I don't
know, it was a beautiful day, wedidn't want to go home.
But yeah, you and I were justsaying and, and it was
unbelievable.
And I think back to those daysnow I can't even the thought of
catching that much that youcould be releasing them like
that, or I just it was.
I knew it was special what washappening in those years but.
(08:14):
I didn't you wish you could goback in time and really truly
appreciate it even more, becausethose trips were so epic you
just never knew.
I don't know we'll ever see itagain, and I cherish them.
There's some of my fondestmemories fishing with you and
your team, and the good old days.
Now it's just another fishstory.
George Scocca (08:35):
No, no, you know what the truth is.
So many of us feel that way.
Right, it was so special.
Noriex was new, the internetwas new, you were new.
I remember going out, you hadthat smaller boat in the
beginning.
And here we are.
Think about the people thatwere on that boat, right?
(08:56):
So we had Kill Swung, we hadAlberto, we had Johnny Skinner,
we had myself, we had Kris Bees,we had one Ralphie, we had
every Sharpie.
I think that there was a LongIsland and they loved fishing
with you and together, thecamaraderie.
(09:18):
Those were special days thatwill be tough to ever repeat.
But again, I'm gonna stress, Iremember you saying we got to
keep this fish, we, we got tolet a lot of these fish go.
Granted, we were way over thelimit, but the fact is I fish
with you and we fish with youmany times and you always, you
(09:40):
knew, and we all knew, how muchcould it take, but those were
great days.
Desi O Sullivan (09:46):
Yeah, it was a remarkable time and, like I say,
I was just super fortunate tobe starting my business with
such an incredible fishery totap into.
Like I said, the eastern soundwas there was not a lot of
fishing pressure at the time.
A lot of the bottom was a lotof the wrecks and stuff were not
(10:09):
fished yet undiscovered and sowhen you found a piece, it was
incredible, it was absolutelyincredible.
And, yeah, going with all thoseguys like the people you just
named back in the day and we hadso many wonderful trips and now
I don't know, I it's so sadthat right in front of our eyes
(10:31):
we saw that fishery and, listen,we bought a lot of fish.
Right, I'm not.
I was fortunate to, to have anamazing fishery and we certainly
contributed to the demise ofthe blackfish, but it was such a
tiny percent that we werecatching and sharing with
thousands of customers over thecourse of the of our fishing
(10:54):
seasons, compared to thepressure that was put on by the
potting and all the black marketstuff that was going on.
And we watched that and wouldrant and rave at the meetings.
I remember seeing you theremany years saying, hey, we got
to do something about thisfishery like we got to preserve
this.
This fishery had maintaineditself as a healthy recreational
(11:19):
fishery for decades, leading upto the 90s, where the price tag
was put on the heads ofblackfish for live blackfish and
we were watching the pots justblow up year after year, just
pots and pots.
There was areas where Icouldn't even get into anymore
because the pots were sonumerous and watching these
(11:39):
boats come in and out of theharbour two, three, four times a
day, with hundreds of blackfishbeing thrown into these ends
and shipped into the city andand no record of them and the
sadly they just did a number onthe population and it's never
recovered well, that level ofthat quality fishing again it
(12:03):
breaks my heart at that becauseit's absolutely my favorite
fishing and we were lucky we gotto enjoy it when it was going
on and and I hope it comes back.
I hope it comes back, but it'sjust a far cry from what it used
to be you know what there's.
George Scocca (12:17):
So you and I, we can relate.
I was always a tug fisherman inbefore I met you, but I always
knew that it was just a matterof time they were once we
started finding them.
I just knew and you knew, and Iremember we had a 10 fish limit
(12:38):
.
Imagine that, folks, it was a10 fish bag limit.
I don't even know if there wasa minimum size, but we would go
and Desi would basicallywouldn't tell us, but he'd urge
us not to keep the 10 and hewould talk to me about we should
be keeping four fish.
(12:59):
I'm upset, that's come on, man,that's 10.
Now you want to go to four andyou're like it's gonna be a year
or two and there's only gonnabe four and it's hard for me.
Not hard for me, but when Ithink about that.
We've lived this in such a shorttime.
We have seen this fishery whichwas phenomenal.
(13:24):
I can remember being a kid offive years old and my father
taking me at a Kings Park on afive horsepower freaking Johnson
, and I don't care where youstopped that boat.
You were loading up withblackfish, you were loading up
with flounder.
You and I, we have seen thisthing go from this phenomenal,
(13:47):
world-class one place in thewhole world fishery to now it's
a managed fishery that's beingmanaged to have small fish.
I've said that from thebeginning when you have the
commercial limit where it's atand you have the potting the way
it's happening our fish you'regonna average 14 and a half to
(14:12):
17.
A big fish gonna be 18.
Hopefully you're gonna get thatreal big one.
Desi O Sullivan (14:17):
But when you get that real big one you almost
want to let it go right this ohman, when I see the big ones
come up now I'm like, yeah, Ihate when I hate to keep them, I
really do me too.
They're so far.
In between we'll get theoccasional eight, ten pounder,
but it's that used to be everyday.
Oh, it was common.
(14:39):
It was always a ten pounder oreight pounder was nothing.
Back in the day we'd havedozens of them.
And yeah, now you don't see andI don't know, I don't know.
A couple of years we had somegreat short life and there was
some optimism.
Maybe there's a new classcoming through.
(14:59):
But you know, they did start.
Finally, after 20 years of thisfishery getting pounded, they
finally started with tags thelast couple years, which was a
good step.
Yes, we were asking for thatyears ago.
If they just started with tags,maybe it could have slowed down
(15:20):
the black market.
I mean, I remember being in thefisheries meetings and they
would say the commercial, therecreational fishermen, account
for 90% of this fishery andtherefore we have to cut them
back or whatever.
And I'm like there's a.
I could literally tell youcertain ports and whatnot that
(15:41):
single handedly, one or twocommercial guys down the black
market were counting forthousands of black fish.
Just right there and none of itwas being recorded.
It was all under the table andof course, none of that makes it
into the data with which theydecide our regulations and
(16:02):
therefore they.
The problem was never addressed.
They was focusing on therecreational, which I was fine.
Having limits on therecreational side, that was all
good, but the fact that theyjust let the free-for-all
continue while they caught usback was it was like we were
just screaming.
We see that in every fishery.
George Scocca (16:25):
Think about it.
They're doing it to us rightnow in fluke.
They're doing it to us rightnow in seabass.
It's look, the fishery was finefor centuries, not decades.
Centuries until they found away to catch them in pots.
(16:46):
Hook and line fishermen are notthe reason that those fish have
left.
We always caught them on hookand line and oh yeah, people are
gonna go, oh, we got, so no now, so we found them.
That's not what did it.
What did it is what I just sawyesterday.
You might know this, but rightnow live black fish in some
(17:12):
Korean markets or Asian marketsin the city are going for 25
pounds of pound, 25.
You catch a 10 fish.
10 pound fish is 250 bucks andthey're getting it.
I have the video, I've seen it,I know it's happening.
I don't say anything unless Iknow it's for real.
(17:35):
And how are the fish going tomake it at that value?
How they're going to make it?
They're not.
A few things need to be done.
What you know the potting sizeand the recreational size needs
to be changed, needs to be atleast the same.
(17:56):
If not, I think that thecommercial comms should be a
little bit higher.
But I don't even want to gothere.
But when you think about it,it's not the wreck angler that
destroyed that fishery and nowwe have this fishery that's
going to have just like StripePass.
(18:16):
We're going to end up justhaving a bunch of keepers for
everybody and the day of the bigfish, sadly, is over unless we
make some serious changes.
Desi O Sullivan (18:29):
Yeah, and it breaks my heart, George, because
like you, I cherished blackfishing and it built my business
.
I'll always be grateful forhaving fished the years that I
did and I just I don't even knowwhat to say to a helpless
feeling watching it slowly getworse and worse every year.
(18:52):
And now for us it's amazing,back in the day, on the moons
and stuff, when things were alittle slower, if we caught 50,
60 keepers, that was our slowtrip and I only took 25 guys out
at the time.
50 keepers was our slow day.
And we tell them I'll come backoff the moon, it'll be good
again.
Now I think about 50 keepers isour normal decent day.
(19:15):
Now we catch 50 keepers, we'rehappy.
That's our good trip.
Now it's just, it'sunbelievable.
George Scocca (19:22):
And our lifetime.
Do you feel that oldness?
Do you feel like you've beenaround that long that the change
should be as drastic as it is?
Or did it happen so much fasterthan you ever expected?
Desi O Sullivan (19:38):
I don't know because I've watched so many
other fisheries thrive at thesame time.
So, for example, seabassfishing has been extraordinary
and it's gotten better and we'reat 16 and a half inches this
year and we're still going outand catching 100 keepers and
limiting out the boat I livedtwo days ago I was out and we
(19:59):
limit about the boat withbeautiful.
We were throwing them back.
We had too many we couldn't getaway from.
I had to leave the drop.
I had 50 foot of seabassunderneath the boat.
If I showed you a screenshot,you can blow your mind how many
seabass there were.
So we never used to have thatin the sound when I was a kid
working on the boats.
If we caught two or threeseabass for the trip that were
(20:22):
12 inches, we were happy.
Oh yeah, so you watch otherfisheries thrive, like seabass
and porgy.
Porgy fishing is as good asit's ever been Fantastic.
Thank God for porgy and seabassbecause that's become the
mainstay of our business andpeople still can come out and
they can fill a bucket of fishand the kids catch and the
(20:43):
families catch and that's beenour staple.
I missed the flukin and theblack fishing but thank God at
least we have the great bottomfishing, so those are doing
great, and striped bass fishingthis year was the best I've ever
seen it.
The amount of striped bass thatI don't sound this year was
(21:03):
more than I've seen my entirelife.
It was amazing andcoincidentally they cut that
back to a three inch slot thisyear when there's more bass than
anyone knows what to do with.
George Scocca (21:13):
Well, you know what, Dad?
You've got to listen to acouple of my past podcasts.
You are joining the choir herebecause everyone's saying the
same thing and if you want tohear my take on it, I don't care
if you want to hear it or not,I'm going to give it to you, oh,
so you say whatever you want.
So here's the way I see it.
(21:35):
I mean, look, fisheriesmanagement lacks common sense.
I say it all the time.
So it's only common sense.
So the flukes seem to be moving.
Maybe they're going north, wedon't know that everything's
moving.
All of a sudden we got thesesea bass.
We never had them.
The other cold water fish seemto be leaving a little bit, I
(21:57):
don't know.
They may be moving.
And you know, now here we arewith this great sea bass fishery
, which we never had before, andnow we have more striped bass
we ever had before.
But I'm not sure if you knowthis or not, but I'm on top of
(22:20):
this whole thing.
We are going to see a totalmoratorium next year in the
spring for the striped bass.
Get ready, it's coming.
You haven't heard it.
I'm telling you, dad, as youknow, I'm always right there,
and I'm telling you yeah, it'sgoing to be a moratorium.
(22:42):
And let me tell you why.
Here's where the common sensegoes out the window.
So the numbers in the Y-O-Y,the young of the year, the small
ones that they find in theChesapeake, are like
non-existent.
There are no.
The Y-O-Y is falling off theplanet down there.
(23:03):
So what does that tell youDon't tell me our striper
fishery is better than it's everbeen.
We've seen, you're seeing themon the East end.
Imagine what that New York biteis saying.
So we're going to, we're goingto end up in a moratorium.
We basically fish a moratorium.
(23:24):
It's 28 to 31 inches.
Your shot's one out of 100.
Get one of those.
But they are going to eliminatethat to save the Chesapeake Bay
.
Now, what is what does thespring fishery in New York, the
spring fishery in New York, haveto do with the Chesapeake?
(23:44):
Nothing, nothing, none of ourfish here are going to
Chesapeake.
They're here and they'restaying here.
But because of, I don't know,crazy management, no,
commonsense management, desi,I'm afraid you're going to hear
(24:05):
about a and start to think nowand listening and they may just
make it a western shutdown.
So all of those boats, all ofthose guys had been practicing
catch and release and they justgo out there to catch those fish
and let them go Hoping to getthat 28, 31 inch lottery slot
(24:30):
fish.
They're all going to be shutdown.
You tell me how a draw McMurraywith all his boats and there's
so many of them carrying in.
I go on and on.
They live on that fishery.
They're going to shut it downfor no reason.
I hope I'm wrong.
I think I'm right.
Desi O Sullivan (24:47):
Are you?
Going to see that it wouldtragic if they did that, and I
liken it to the collapse of thelobster fishing in Long Island.
George Scocca (24:57):
When.
Desi O Sullivan (24:57):
I started my business, there used to be 25
boats out of Mount Santa Barbaraalone, in and out every day,
thriving lobster fishery.
And then something happened,not sure what climate change,
the pesticide spraying,something killed the lobsters
and they're no longer there.
But the lobster fishery?
(25:18):
Everything was shifting norththere and lobsters were at the
southern end of their range thisparticular species.
Perhaps the water just formedup too much, nobody knows right.
But the lobster fish up northand Maine was still extremely
good.
But imagine, they shut down thelobster fishing up in Maine
because Long Island Sound wasnow depleted.
(25:39):
That's basically what they'redoing with the striped bass and
everything that you're startingwith, because Long Island.
Sound no longer has lobsters.
Therefore we can't fish forlobsters trap lobsters in Maine
anymore.
It just makes no sense.
George Scocca (25:55):
No.
And what happens if everythingelse, the striped bass which
they have gotten, the YOLnumbers in the Chesapeake every
year.
Now what happens if they movedout of there?
They move it north.
There's somewhere else.
They're not where they look.
They go to look for them.
(26:16):
So we can't fish until theysomehow find these fish.
I'm telling you, nobody knowsbetter than you, we've been
through it all.
But think about it as, as timegone that fast.
Think about what we had andwhere we are.
(26:37):
I can remember getting on PetePearson's party boat, 200 bucks
ahead.
We would run to the canyon andwe would load up on bluefin and
we would come home.
That's over.
Everything is that we did thenis over.
But something else is taking itback Now, me and myself.
(26:59):
I would much rather fight ablackfish but I'd much rather
eat a sea bass.
I would be fine If these seabass numbers stay.
I'll be fine.
But I'm a firm believer, des, Idon't know if you know this,
but I've done a lot of homeworkon it.
(27:19):
In fact I have a podcast on it.
We have an estimated 1.1million pots that are ghost pots
.
They're laying on the bottom ofNew York Sound, long Island
Sound.
Think of that over a millionpots ghost pots.
Desi O Sullivan (27:45):
Now we still after they did all the cleanup.
They did a massive cleanup thelast couple of years.
George Scocca (27:49):
Yeah, you know what?
They got 17,000 and all of thepots that they got from the
lobstermen that left the potsthere.
They just went back and gotthem, got paid for.
But as of right now I can'tremember the guy's name.
He's the greatest guy ever.
He's out there trying to getthese pots and they're getting
(28:10):
them at a rate of 10 to 15,000 ayear.
There's a million of them.
Do you know that?
They told me they finally theyjust got side scan to find these
pots.
They just got side scans so far.
How long have you had that?
Desi O Sullivan (28:25):
Really.
George Scocca (28:26):
They just got it this year.
So think about it if there'sone blackfish and you, I'm sure
you've encountered some pots Ifthere's one blackfish in each
pot, it's a million fish, amillion.
Look, there's a lot we could do.
(28:47):
I'm glad, though, that you'vegot those porgis, and you got
those sea bass, and whathappened?
Bluefishes year over there.
Desi O Sullivan (28:56):
Let me just make one more comment about the
sea bass fish.
George Scocca (28:59):
Go ahead.
Desi O Sullivan (29:00):
Because it absolutely boggles my mind the
amount of sea bass we run into,especially out of Matta Talk in
the Eastern Sound this time ofyear.
Like I said, if I sent you ascreenshot from the other day,
there was literally thousandsand thousands of them on one
(29:20):
wreck, wow, and I just caught atiny little bit of it.
It's funny because you and thenin the herd moves so you can go
back the next day and it'sblank.
But when you run into theseherds of fish like I just wish I
could grab the fisheryscientists and be like come here
, count now.
George Scocca (29:40):
Yeah, really.
It's like on this one spotunderneath the boat.
Desi O Sullivan (29:44):
I'll send you a screenshot when we're done.
You'll just you won't believeit, and it's one pot.
George Scocca (29:51):
Their whole view will change, yeah.
Desi O Sullivan (29:53):
Yeah, and they don't realize the amount of it
and that's just my one littlespot.
I'm literally thousands of fish.
I'll be in a hundred feet ofwater and they'll read from the
all the way top to bottomthrough the whole water column
sea bass.
That is crazy and we've beenrunning into these schools now
for a couple of years and it'samazing.
(30:15):
When you find them, the wholeboat limits out.
You catch double headers andthey're big and even at 16 and a
half inches we're still able tocatch a limit and thank God for
that and it's really.
That is as epic as sea bassLike remember back in the winter
fishery going on the bigJamaica and stuff out in Texas
town on sea bass.
(30:36):
Now we do that in freaking LongIsland Sound, which I never
thought that would happen.
But that's been an incredibleevolution of that fishery and
we're mother nature give it andtake it away.
And right now she's reallyhooked us up with that one and
that's really gets people goingand makes the trip worthwhile.
And hey, if you can catch acouple of blackfish but then you
(30:58):
go put half a dozen beautifulbig sea bass in the cooler, it
makes for a good day.
So that's what's keeping usgoing and it's making for a good
product here and the people arevery happy with it and that's
keeping us going.
But again, sometimes when theytell us these numbers, I just
want to run my own survey andbring them out and have them see
(31:22):
what I see in Long Island Sound.
And we're not even at theepicenter where the sea bass
population migrates, we're justcatching the fringe that comes
into Long Island Sound here andthat's how abundant they are.
And I remember and porgy's aswell.
I remember one day, george,with my side scan sonar, that I
had on my boat, I had a schoolof porgy's that ran along the
(31:47):
edge of one of the shoals whenthey came in spawning and the
school of fish was like 15 to 20feet high off the bottom but
about at least 100 to 150 feetacross.
When I picked it up with mysonar right and I was like, wow,
let me keep seeing how longthis school runs for.
(32:09):
And I followed the contour lineof the shoal and I ran for a
solid mile scanning the school.
That was again 150 feet widthby 20 feet high and a mile long
until I finally reached the endof the school and I reckon there
(32:29):
had to be probably upwards of amillion fish there easily, if
you think about it.
George Scocca (32:36):
And that was just in more than a second.
Desi O Sullivan (32:39):
And you're like , how do they quantify this?
And then tell us and you know,that was the day that they
restricted the regulations thatyear because there wasn't enough
of them and they had cut usback.
George Scocca (32:52):
I don't mean to laugh, but there's times when
you're like are you kidding me?
And they're doing it now, atthe best.
Desi O Sullivan (32:58):
That was absolutely one of them.
I wanted to literally take myscreenshots and send it to Noah
Fisheries and be like what isgoing?
George Scocca (33:07):
on here.
Yes, I went to.
I'm almost ashamed to say it,but I'm the representative for
the recreational angler on weakfish in New York and I can't
remember going to a meeting andit was a year.
It was years ago, maybe eight,10 years ago, when the party
boats down in New York by dayarea were getting them pretty
(33:31):
good.
So I get to this meeting andI'm looking at the numbers and
the number says that New Yorktotaled 150 pounds of weak fish
for the whole year.
And I'm looking at him like Iown a fishing magazine.
I get fishing reports every dayand I can tell you right now
(33:52):
there were more pounds caughtlast night in New York fight
than you have for the wholeseason here.
Those numbers are still there.
They're still as, they're stillpart of their, their entire.
How do you want to say it?
They're the little course thatthey have there.
(34:15):
I don't know, man, the numbersare always changing.
They're never seemed to beright.
But I gotta say one thing Look,I owned a fishing magazine
forever, 30-some-odd years atthe first fishing website ever.
When I say that to people thatyou don't believe it, you know
(34:35):
for a fact.
If you put fishing in Yahoo, Iwas it?
I've seen it all and I gottatell you this I've dealt with
every business owner there is,and so many.
There was the guy you wanted todeal with, or gal you wanted to
deal with.
They were the ones you dealtwith, and then there were the
(34:59):
ones that you really didn't wantto deal with.
What I want to tell you?
You were in the top tier, youwere just.
You were such a supporter andyou helped make me a success.
Desi O Sullivan (35:12):
I appreciate that, george, that's really nice
to hear, and we took care ofeach other.
Your business absolutelylaunched my business and I never
could have done what I did as ayoung kid starting out.
I almost went out of businesstwice when I first started
(35:33):
Because I was literally gettingfares in to put fuel in my tank
so I could fish the next day,and then I blew my engine.
I blew my transmission.
My sister bailed me out with aloan and but if it wasn't for
your site I'll never forget thisI was doing so bad my first
(35:53):
season that I was literallygoing.
Maybe I'd get out two trips aweek.
When I first started I'm like,oh, this would be easy.
You put an ad in the paper andthe people will just start
coming.
But that's not how it works andI would go days and days.
My phone would not ring and youhad just started your fishing
site, thank God.
And I was doing so bad.
(36:15):
I was about to go out ofbusiness because I was out of
money and I was doing so bad.
I had to go beg for my old jobback running another party boat
and then I ended up runninganother party boat in Port Jeff,
so I was showing up thererunning that party boat just to
make fuel money so I could runmy boat on the weekend with two
(36:38):
or three fares that would showup.
And somehow I managed to makeit through the season to
blackfish season and I knew Ihad good blackfish drops lined
up because I had been searchingfor them for years and I knew if
I could go blackfishing maybesomeone would want to come with
me.
And my first day outblackfishing I went out, we
(37:00):
wailed on.
I had two customers we wailedon fish and these two customers
were like beside themselves.
I took pictures, whatever, andI was like you know what?
There's this new website,norriscom.
Let me go put some pictures upon that website, maybe that will
help.
This is way back in the day.
And I went and posted thatnight and within I kid you not
(37:22):
15 minutes my phone startedringing and ringing and I'm like
whoa, something just happenedhere.
And that next day I somehow oranother got eight fares to come
with me the next day and we wentout again and we wailed on fish
again.
I took pictures of my olddigital camera, like a two
megapixel or something like thatyeah.
(37:44):
When you put the SD card.
It would take like 20 minutesto upload the pictures to your
website with the little beachball spinning, but I was like I
had to do that and after thesecond day of posting on your
site, my phone started ringingoff the hook.
And because black fishermen arecrazy bunch, oh still are.
(38:05):
So passionate and they couldn'tbelieve that, wow, there's some
new boat in Mount Sinai.
No one had ever heard of themgoing out and whaling on
blackfish.
I got to check this out andthen I started getting the calls
from all like the hardcoreblackfish guys Alberto and the
EC Newell men, like all theseguys that you talk about.
(38:26):
Oh yeah.
They started hey, is this real?
Are you really catchingblackfish like this?
Because there weren't manyboats that were hardcore
blackfish in those years.
Not at all.
And then I ended up my nexttrip because of the posting on
your site.
I was sold out with 25 peopleand we went out.
We'd limit it out again, whaledon fish, took pictures now of
(38:48):
25 people, posted those on yoursite and they all started
chatting with each other on yourforum telling the fishing
stories that how great fishingwas.
And do you know that for therest of the season I was sold
out every single trip, everysingle trip.
George Scocca (39:05):
I was sold out.
I got to tell you something,desi.
I don't want to cut your shoeup, but I got to tell you.
That is one of the mostrewarding stories I have ever
heard, only because I reallylike you as a person.
And to hear you say that I knewwhat's going on and no one was
(39:27):
admitting it at the time becausethey were afraid I was going to
charge them, which my priceswere always very inexpensive.
But to hear you say that meansmore to me than anything you
could possibly imagine.
Desi O Sullivan (39:42):
George you have no idea Like I think back about
those days and weeks.
I had literally had a day wherethat fall I had no money.
I had blown my transmission.
It was like $12,000.
I literally went to bed thatnight saying you know what I'm
done, at some point you can'tkeep digging a hole like that.
(40:04):
I was tens of thousands in debt.
And I went to bed that night andI said you know what I tried?
Whatever just not meant to be,I'm not going to be a party boat
fisherman, I'll do somethingelse.
And I woke up that next morning.
I don't know what overtained me, but I was like you know what?
I know I can make this happen.
I know I can figure this out.
(40:24):
I'm just I'm freaking goingfishing again and I had two
fares again that day and I juststruggled through it up until
this moment that I told you withthe black fishing in your
website and after posting thoseand being sold out like that,
it's like the momentum justcatapulted and I got enough
(40:46):
money from those final weeks ofblack fishing, all from
Norriscom Like just the crazyblack fisherman on your chat
forums just going crazy.
It was like madness.
I could have filled the boatthree times over, because it was
like a starving audience justwanting to go black fishing, and
I scrounged enough moneytogether to keep the boat going
(41:09):
through the winter and then thatspring we used to have a great
spring black fishery as well.
So when I started, picked upfrom that momentum, as soon as I
posted on Norriscom hey, I'mgoing to go black fishing again.
Boom, the phone started ringing.
That's great I ended up having agreat season and I never looked
back and that next year was thefirst time that Norris Charter
(41:34):
started and hard to think backlike nobody ever did that it was
the first time that everyone onyour website and it was
arranged by Kilsong the greatKilsong, the one and only who
many of us fish with over theyears, and Mike Marks Togmaster
and EC Newellman and all theseguys who were like, hey, let's
(41:56):
all meet each other and gettogether.
And Kilsong that next yeararranged the first ever Norris
Charter.
It was the first one andeveryone came out from behind
the keyboard and your screennames oh, you're Togmaster,
you're Togslayer, you're Fluke,whatever.
Everyone's name was right andmet on my boat for the most epic
(42:20):
trip and we were so fortunate.
If I had to pick one day as afisherman that I could relive,
it would probably be this one.
But yeah, kilsong, it was thefirst ever Kilsong, that Norris
Charter.
Okay now.
George Scocca (42:36):
I'm going to add something to this that's going
to make it even, I believe, thatmuch more special, as we had
that food.
Remember we had the soup going.
Everybody was freaking out.
I had that big bowl of soup inthe middle of the boat and my
(42:58):
brother was there.
Guy rest his soul and it turnsout that was his last trip.
He had a fish and I don't knowif you recall, but he went out.
He fished for five minutes.
He was working the whole timegetting the food ready and my
brother fished for five minutesand he won the pool with an 11
(43:18):
pound blackfish.
He beat out John Skinner.
You saying that it really meansI'm a believer in faith and it
means a lot to me.
You saying that is a lot tothat trip.
Desi O Sullivan (43:37):
Yeah, that trip was so special because, again,
all these people were united forthe first time Through.
It was the when the internetwas still somewhat pure and
positive for oh, it was sobeautiful then.
Before all the freaking, kicktalk, nonsense and all this
(43:59):
other crap that's in thealgorithms that make us hate
each other, like all thisnonsense.
Back in the day, we just werefishermen, connecting and
enjoying our passion andlearning from one another and
making new friends.
I made so many friends throughNorriscom back in the day, but
that particular trip we wereblessed with it was 70, it was
(44:22):
November 1st.
I still have in my logbookNovember 1st.
And it was 70 degrees.
We're fishing in short sleeves.
I went to a virgin wreck that Ihad never fished before.
We caught 300 keepers and thensome, and it was flat calm and
we had the best day and allthese fishermen got to know each
other and then we had I waskill songs, but he was a sushi
(44:46):
chef and mammoth.
Oh, man, he was cutting thatstuff up A beautiful tray of
sashimi for everyone, oh my.
God, captain Neil was there.
Captain Neil filmed that withhis freaking camcorder back in
the day.
George Scocca (45:02):
Oh, he's still after fishing, I hear.
Desi O Sullivan (45:05):
Yeah, he came out with me this year.
But when I look back at allthose faces and we're like God.
We only knew how special thatwas.
That was the first manyphenomenal Nor'east charters.
Dozens of Nor'east charters andmany other different charter
masters started up over that inthat season.
For the next 10 years it waslike reached its peak and its
(45:28):
heyday and that was such a hugepart of my business, not only
for black fishing but flukefishing.
Tons of fluke charters and likethe whole Nor'east community
just came together in thoseyears and it was just a
remarkable time.
But that's what got me over thehump.
When you start a business, a lotof businesses really struggle
(45:50):
and that's why they go out ofbusiness.
They just can't make that.
They can't reach critical pointwhere the money coming in is
more than the money going out.
When you got to just pull them.
It's not easy.
Yeah, it was.
It wasn't easy, but I'm sothankful to have had that
opportunity and it was greatworking with you all those years
(46:11):
, george, like I say, you reliedon us boats for bringing
content to your site and verymuch we received in return
10-fold in business on helpingus grow and get the word out and
it was amazing.
The whole thing was amazing howit happened back in the day.
George Scocca (46:28):
Well, you know what we became family we really
did.
We all knew each other.
We were all you mentioned,larry.
You knew who it was Like.
We were all on a first namebasis.
You became look, there wereplenty of boats that would love
to have had the Nor'east crowd.
(46:50):
But when we met you and wefished with you, we knew this is
the guy we want to talk, fishwith from here on out and fluke
fish with and do whatever we gotto do.
I can only say I keep saying it, but I really mean it.
(47:12):
It's hard for me to believethat it's all gone by and it
happened so fast and the changethat has occurred in our
lifetime or not in all lifetime,but in our time in this fishery
(47:33):
.
Desi O Sullivan (47:34):
Yeah, it seems like a dream.
You know that back in the day,I mean, I remember, and when we
first started that I, we didn'thave smartphones, no, I would go
out.
I had a baby like I have a next, tell a flip phone.
George Scocca (47:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Desi O Sullivan (47:50):
But we would take pictures on the original
digital cameras and then pullout the SD cards, insert them
into the computer at night andit was like I think back about.
I remember the first timesomeone showed me a phone where
they could pull up a marineforecast on their phone and I
was like, wow, yeah.
George Scocca (48:09):
I remember a time you guys would grab our phones.
We weren't allowed on afreaking party about giving you
a phone.
Why You're going to mark myspot.
In the beginning, we actuallyhad to give up our phones.
You might have that, might havebeen before you, but there was
actually a time where we werenot allowed to hold our own
(48:30):
phones.
Desi O Sullivan (48:32):
Oh my god.
Yeah Well, started withhandheld GPS's and then went to
phones and now forget it.
I've had so many spots muggedit.
Now there's a map of the bottomyou can buy for 25 bucks with
an app.
It's like there are.
George Scocca (48:46):
There are no C and, as you can put them on the
spot, show them where it is,tell them what to do, and they
won't catch a thing and they'llnever go back.
So you got nothing to worryabout.
Desi O Sullivan (48:58):
That's been my experience.
I missed the day fishing with aLoran when it actually took
some skill to be able to get ona piece and go black fishing.
Now it's so easy with spotlocks and everything else, but
that's a whole other issue.
George Scocca (49:15):
We'll talk about that some other day.
Desi O Sullivan (49:19):
I did.
George Scocca (49:19):
I want to close this out with you, knowing that
you've always been special to meand your entire operation.
I've always had a ton ofrespect for, and as I do for,
many of the guys and gals thatyou know do what you do.
(49:41):
It's every other business youhave to do a crab shoot from one
day to the next.
Only you have to deal with somereal crazy stuff.
You got regulations that younever know what the hell is
going to come up.
You got fuel, you got docking.
You got insurance.
You got your boat blowing up.
You got God knows what.
(50:03):
And then, on top of that, yougot crazy regulations, the good
people that are good businesspeople, which I know you are
able to make it through, and youknow I'm so glad that you were
able to make a career out ofwhat you enjoyed.
Desi O Sullivan (50:23):
Thank you, george and as many people
helping me along the way, likeyourself and your business, and
by the grace of God, go I like.
I've been so, so lucky to dothis as a living and it's been a
great career.
It's been a hard career.
There's definitely a lot ofsleepless nights and moments of
(50:43):
frustration and just when youthink you're catching up, mother
nature keeps you tied to thedock with crappy weather for a
week.
But it's a labor of love andevery day I still get on the
boat with a smile on my face aswe steam out to the grounds and
I pinch myself and I say, man,I'm one lucky guy that this is
(51:03):
what I get to do with my life.
It's been nice sharing thatjourney with you for sure, and I
look forward to going fishingagain.
Be here, or be here or sunnyFlorida one day or wherever you
got it.
George Scocca (51:16):
Look, this was great.
I wish you're nothing but thebest.
Make sure you mohawk the fishand if, look, I don't tell
everyone that I'm snowboardingdown here in Florida, but I am
now.
So if you happen to be down inNaples, look me up and anyone
listening you could do that too.
I may not answer right away,but Desi's case I'm answering
(51:39):
George.
Alright, brother, you take careof yourself, and this was great
.
Desi O Sullivan (51:45):
Alright, george , take it easy.
Thanks so much for having me onthis.
George Scocca (51:49):
Hey, thank you so much for being on the show.
Desi O Sullivan (51:52):
Alright, take care, george.
George Scocca (51:54):
Our story today is more than just a tale of
fishing.
It's a saga of the human spirit, of fighting against the tide
and finding hope in the mostunexpected places.
Journeyed from the brink ofdespair, with engines failing
and debts mounting, to thethrill of a phone ringing with
(52:16):
promise.
Remember the days of the nearsilence, broken only by the
hopes that someone somewherewould answer the call.
And then the transformationNorriscom.
Not just a website but alifeline, a platform that
connected us, that brought ourstories to the world.
(52:37):
Each picture posted, each storyshared became a beacon calling
to all of our fellow anglers,from the first successful
blackfish trip to the phoneringing off the hook.
It was a journey of rediscovery, of realizing that our passion
could indeed be our livelihood.
(52:58):
And then the Norris Charter, agathering that transcended the
digital realm, bringing togethera community of anglers united
not just by a website but by ashared passion that runs as deep
as the ocean itself.
We remember all of our greatmembers, architects, and all the
(53:22):
many friendships that blossomedon the Celtic quest.
There's a certain magic inthese memories, a reminder that,
amidst the turmoil of the world, the simple joy of fishing, of
sharing a bowl of soup and aboat can bring us closer than we
ever imagined.
We recall the triumphant catchof my beloved brother, a moment
(53:49):
etched in time, a testament tothe unexpected gifts that the
sea bestows upon all of us.
As we cast our thoughts back tothose days of unity and
discovery, let's hold on to thesense of wonder, that feeling of
being part of something largerthan ourselves.
(54:11):
The world may change,technologies may evolve, but the
heart of fishing, the soul ofour community, remains
unshakable.
So, as we sign off from thisepisode, let's carry these
stories with us as reminderswhere we've been and as beacons
(54:35):
guiding us to where we're headed, until we meet again.
This is your, your captain onthis journey through the waves
and wonders New York's sportfishing.
Keep your lines tight, yourhearts open and your memories
(54:55):
alive.
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