Can Hochul's Budget Plan Deliver for New Yorkers?

While the state budget is three weeks late, New York voters seem to back the many policy items that Gov. Kathy Hochul is pushing to be included in the budget. The governor saw positive job approval and favorability ratings for the first time in over a year. Sanford Berland, executive director of the state commission on ethics and lobbying in government, joins us to discuss the body's plans ahead and budget asks. We look at the state's approach to teaching DEI schools at a time when the federal government is looking to ban schools K-12 from approaching DEI in their curriculum.

 

EXPLORE MORE: nynow.org

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
[THEME MUSIC]
>> WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.
I'M SHANTEL DESTRA.

(00:23):
STATE LEADERS ARE CONTINUING TO
MAKE PROGRESS ON THE STATE
BUDGET BUT HAVE NOT OFFICIALLY
PUT THE PENCILS DOWN YET.
WHILE THE BUDGET IS NOW THREE
WEEKS LATE, A RECENT SIENA
COLLEGE POLL SHOWED GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL WITH A POSITIVE JOB
APPROVAL AND FAVORABILITY RATING
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER A
YEAR.

(00:43):
NEW YORKERS SEEM TO BE LARGELY
SUPPORTIVE OF THE MEASURES
BACKED BY THE GOVERNOR
THROUGHOUT BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.
THOSE MEASURES INCLUDE DISCOVERY
REFORM, INVOLUNTARY COMMITMENT,
MASK BANS AND RESTRICTING CELL
PHONES IN SCHOOLS.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT
TWO THIRDS OF VOTERS SAID THAT
THEY ARE AT LEAST A BIT

(01:05):
CONCERNED THAT THE FINAL STATE
BUDGET HAS NOT PASSED YET.
AS ALWAYS, WE'LL CONTINUE TO
BRING YOU BUDGET UPDATES RIGHT
HERE ON THE SHOW.
NOW TURNING TO NATIONAL
HEADLINES.
RECENTLY PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP
SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT
MOVED TO BAN THE TEACHING OF
DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION

(01:25):
TOPICS IN GRADES K THROUGH 12.
IN NEW YORK, SEVERAL LAWMAKERS
ARGUE THAT THE STATE SHOULD
STAND UP AND BE A LEADER AND BE
ABLE TO DICTATE ITS OWN
CURRICULUM.
SO NATURALLY, WE WANTED TO TAKE
A LOOK AT NEW YORK'S APPROACH TO
TEACHING DEI IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
HERE'S THAT STORY FROM OUR ELISE

(01:45):
KLINE.
>> NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATORS
ARE TRYING TO IMPROVE DIVERSITY
IN THE STATE'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS'
HISTORY CURRICULUM.
IN ALBANY, LAWMAKERS ARE
FIGHTING FOR A RE INTRODUCED
BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE PUBLIC
SCHOOLS, BOTH ELEMENTARY AND
HIGH SCHOOL, TO INTEGRATE ASIAN
AMERICAN, NATIVE HAWAIIAN, AND
PACIFIC ISLANDER HISTORY INTO
THE SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM.
STATE SENATOR JOHN LIU, A

(02:05):
DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING PARTS OF
QUEENS AND A LEAD SPONSOR OF THE
BILL IN THE UPPER CHAMBER,
STRESSES THAT THIS LEGISLATION
COULD HELP REDUCE ANTI ASIAN
HATE AT A TIME WHEN THE STATE
AND THE NATION HAVE SEEN
INCREASED HATE CRIMES.
>> WE ALL KNOW, EVERYBODY
RECOGNIZES THAT WE HAVE HAD
SEVERAL YEARS OF EXTREME ANTI ASIAN
HATE, AND PEOPLE HAVE PROPOSED
DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS FROM

(02:27):
ENHANCED CRIMINAL PENALTIES TO
MORE ENFORCEMENT.
I THINK THOSE ARE IMPORTANT, BUT
REALLY, THE WAY TO ERADICATE
ANTI ASIAN HATE IS THROUGH
EDUCATION.
>> LIU ADDS HATE IS THE RESULT
OF IGNORANCE AND FEAR STRESSING
THE CORONAVIRUS BROUGHT OUT A
LOT OF ANTI ASIAN HATE.
>> THERE WAS A NEED TO SCAPEGOAT

(02:48):
A CERTAIN COMMUNITY, AND IT'S
EASY TO SCAPEGOAT A CERTAIN
COMMUNITY YOU JUST DON'T KNOW A
WHOLE LOT ABOUT.
>> SOME EDUCATION EXPERTS AGREE,
SAYING EDUCATION PLAYS A HUGE
ROLE IN COMBATING IGNORANCE AND
DISCRIMINATION.
LUCIUS YOUNG, NOW RETIRED FROM
WORKING IN NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC
SCHOOLS FOR 25 YEARS IN VARIOUS
ROLES, INCLUDING A TEACHER AND
THE CHIEF OF CURRICULUM AND
INSTRUCTION, SAYS DIVERSE

(03:09):
EDUCATION IN A CLASSROOM BUILDS
A COMMUNITY OF BELONGING.
>> THIS CURRICULUM, LIKE I SAID,
GIVES A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR
STUDENTS TO BE BETTER ANALYSTS
IN THEIR WORK.
SO, THEY'RE CONNECTING IT NOT
ONLY TO THE PAST OF WHAT'S TAKEN
PLACE, THEY'RE CONNECTING IT TO
THE PRESENT AND IN ADDITION TO
THAT THEY'RE WORKING ALONGSIDE
THEIR PARTNERS, THEIR CLASSMATES

(03:31):
TO LEARN ABOUT EACH OTHER.
>> THE CURRENT LANDSCAPE FOR
ASIAN AMERICAN HISTORY IN PUBLIC
SCHOOL CLASSROOMS IS SCARCE TO
NON EXISTENT.
YOUNG SAYS THERE ARE SOME
RESOURCES FOR TEACHERS AND
STUDENTS CURRENTLY TO EDUCATE
THEMSELVES ON ASIAN AMERICAN
STUDIES, SUCH AS HIDDEN VOICES,
A CURRICULUM SERIES ABOUT
OVERLOOKED FIGURES MADE
AVAILABLE TO NEW YORK CITY
PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
BUT HE SAYS OVERALL, THERE ARE A
LOT OF MISSING ELEMENTS WHEN IT

(03:52):
COMES TO TEACHING A COMPLETE
PICTURE OF ASIAN AMERICAN
HISTORY.
>> THESE RESOURCES ARE A START
BECAUSE IT'S MADE THEM AVAILABLE
FOR TEACHERS TO USE, MADE THEM
AVAILABLE AS PART OF A
CURRICULUM.
THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE
CONTINUED ONGOING PROFESSIONAL
LEARNING FOR OUR TEACHERS TO
INCORPORATE THIS TO INTEGRATE
THIS.

(04:13):
>> FOR 18 YEAR OLD HIGH SCHOOL
SENIOR CONNIE LIN, A
SIGNIFICANTLY INCOMPLETE PICTURE
OF ASIAN AMERICAN HISTORY IS
EXACTLY WHAT HER EXPERIENCE HAS
BEEN.
>> I GREW UP IN FLUSHING,
QUEENS, AND THIS IS A VERY
IMMIGRANT BROAD COMMUNITY, AND I
FELT VERY TIGHTLY KNITTED AND
CLOSELY TIED TO MY COMMUNITY,
NOT ONLY THE CHINESE AMERICAN
COMMUNITY, AS WELL AS THE

(04:34):
BROADER IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY IN
THE AREA.
AND GOING INTO SCHOOL AS WELL AS
MY EDUCATION, I REALLY RARELY
ACTUALLY LEARNED ABOUT THE
UPLIFTING OF THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF
MY COMMUNITY ITSELF.
>> LIN SAID THE FIRST TIME SHE
LEARNED ABOUT CHINESE AMERICANS
MENTIONED IN HER U.S. HISTORY
CURRICULUM WAS THE BUILDING OF
THE CONTINENTAL RAILROAD.
>> THAT WAS THE FIRST I EVER HAD

(04:55):
ANY MENTION OF THE ASIAN
AMERICAN EXPERIENCE BEYOND THAT.
AND AS A WHOLE, THIS CONTRIBUTES
TO THIS FALSE NARRATIVE THAT
ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES ARE
ONLY RECENTLY IMMIGRATED TO THE
U.S., BUT IN REALITY, WE HAVE
BEEN IN THE U.S. FOR OVER 100
YEARS.
AND THIS CREATES THIS PATTERN OF
XENOPHOBIA AS WELL AS HATE.
>> AND LIN IS NOT ALONE.
BUNKONG TUON, A PROFESSOR OF
ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES AT UNION

(05:16):
COLLEGE, SAYS STUDENTS IN HIS
CLASS OFTEN HAVE TO LEARN MORE
DEPTH AND DETAILS OF ASIAN
AMERICAN HISTORY IN HIS
CLASSROOM.
TUON ADDS THIS BILL IS CRITICAL
FOR STUDENTS TO UNDERSTAND THE
WHOLE PICTURE OF ASIAN AMERICAN
HISTORY AND TO BE ABLE TO SEE
THEMSELVES IN HISTORY.
>> THE IMPACT HAS TO DO WITH HOW
STUDENTS FEEL ABOUT THEMSELVES,
A SENSE OF BEING VALUED AND

(05:38):
RECOGNIZED, ESPECIALLY AS PART
OF AMERICA.
THIS IS REALLY CRUCIAL FOR
SEVERAL REASONS, AND
HISTORICALLY ASIAN AMERICANS
WE'VE BEEN SEEN AS PERPETUAL
FOREIGNERS.
>> LIN SAYS WHEN SHE'S LEARNED,
ON HER OWN, ABOUT INFLUENTIAL
FIGURES FROM HER COMMUNITY, SUCH
AS YURI KOCHIYAMA, AN AMERICAN

(06:00):
CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST, IT MADE
HER FEEL PROUD.
LIN HAS BEEN ADVOCATING WITH THE
REACH COALITION FOR THIS
LEGISLATION SINCE HER FRESHMAN
YEAR.
SHE HOPED TO SEE IT PASS BEFORE
SHE GRADUATED.
NOW SHE HOPES TO SEE IT PASS SO
THAT HER YOUNGER BROTHER CAN
BENEFIT FROM A BETTER HISTORICAL
EDUCATION ABOUT THE ASIAN
AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.
SHE SAYS SHE PLANS TO KEEP
FIGHTING FOR THIS LEGISLATION TO
PASS.

(06:21):
>> IT'S NOT JUST LIKE A THING
SOMETHING FOR ME, IT'S FOR
EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING MY
BROTHER, WHO IS CURRENTLY A
MIDDLE SCHOOLER.
I WANT TO SEE HIM LEARNING ABOUT
THE HISTORY OF HIS PEOPLE, HIS
COMMUNITIES AND BEYOND.
>> THE FIGHT ALSO CONTINUES
AMONG LEGISLATORS AND OTHER
ADVOCATE GROUPS.
FELICIA SINGH, DIRECTOR OF
POLICY AND GOVERNMENT RELATIONS
WITH THE COALITION FOR ASIAN
AMERICAN CHILDREN AND FAMILIES,

(06:42):
OR CACF, SAYS SHE HOPES THE BILL
PASSES THIS YEAR EVEN THOUGH IT
HASN'T PASSED BOTH HOUSES IN
PREVIOUS YEARS.
THE BILL PASSED IN THE SENATE
LAST YEAR BUT FAILED IN THE
ASSEMBLY.
>> WE'RE HOPING THAT IT
CONTINUES TO PASS IN THE STATE
SENATE AND IN THE ASSEMBLY THIS
TIME AROUND.
WE DO KNOW THAT THE STATE
EDUCATION DEPARTMENT PLAYS A

(07:02):
LARGE ROLE IN HOW CURRICULUM IS
ADOPTED IN THE STATE AND WE'RE
REALLY HOPING THAT THEY TOO ARE
UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS THE
PRIME TIME TO REALLY PASS
INCLUSIVE CURRICULUM ACROSS THE
STATE.
>> ASSEMBLY MEMBER JO ANNE
SIMON, A DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING
PARTS OF BROOKLYN, SAYS
CURRICULUM BILLS CAN BE TRICKY
FOR THIS VERY REASON.
THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION'S

(07:23):
ROLE IN ALTERING THE CURRICULUM.
"I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE
THINGS THAT'S VIEWED AS BEING
WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, AND IN
REALITY, THE DEPARTMENT'S
PERSPECTIVE IS THAT IT ALSO
DOESN'T DO CURRICULUM THAT WE
HAVE A SCHOOL DISTRICT SYSTEM,
WE HAVE OVER 700 SCHOOL DISTRICTS

(07:46):
AND THEY DECIDE THE CURRICULUM
IN THEIR SCHOOLS, THEIR
DISTRICTS.
>> SIMON ADDS THAT THE
DEPARTMENT CAN ISSUE CURRICULUM
REQUIREMENTS THROUGH GUIDANCE
AND REGULATIONS.
THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DOES
NOT SUPPORT THE LEGISLATION.
IN A STATEMENT SENT TO WMHT, A
SPOKESPERSON FROM THE DEPARTMENT
SAID THEY DON'T DIRECT OR CREATE
CURRICULUM.
STATE SENATOR SHELLEY MAYER, A

(08:06):
DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING PARTS OF
WESTCHESTER COUNTY AND THE CHAIR
OF THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE,
ARGUES THE LEGISLATION WOULDN'T
COMPLETELY CHANGE THE
CURRICULUM, IT WOULD ALLOW THE
DEPARTMENT TO HELP PROVIDE
SCHOOLS WITH THE TOOLS THEY NEED
TO ADD TO THE CURRICULUM THROUGH
THE GUIDANCE AUTHORITY THAT THEY
ALREADY HAVE.
>> THIS BILL WOULD REALLY RAMP
UP AND DEEPEN THE CURRICULUM

(08:27):
MATERIALS THAT THE STATE
EDUCATION DEPARTMENT PROVIDES TO
SCHOOLS, PARTICULARLY TO ENSURE
THAT THERE'S ADEQUATE EDUCATION
ABOUT THE ASIAN AMERICAN PACIFIC
ISLANDER EXPERIENCE.
>> THE BILL IS CURRENTLY IN
COMMITTEES IN BOTH CHAMBERS.
HOWEVER, SOME LAWMAKERS ARE
OPTIMISTIC IT WILL PASS THIS
YEAR WITH A GREATER POLITICAL
URGENCY AND BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.
STATE SENATOR STEVE CHAN, A

(08:48):
REPUBLICAN REPRESENTING PARTS OF
BROOKLYN AND A SUPPORTER OF THE
BILL, SAYS HE HOPES TO SEE IT
PASS THIS YEAR.
>> ANYBODY WHO SAYS THEY'RE AN
ADVOCATE FOR EDUCATION SHOULD BE
SUPPORTING THIS BILL.
WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT OUR KIDS TO
GO AS FAR AS THEY CAN?
>> THE EFFORTS TO PASS THIS BILL
FOR THE THIRD YEAR COME AT A
TIME WHEN DONALD TRUMP SEEKS TO
BAN DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND

(09:09):
INCLUSION IN SCHOOLS AND
TERMINATE FUNDING TO SCHOOLS
THAT DO NOT COMPLY.
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION STATES
IN AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THE BAN
WILL COMBAT QUOTE 'ANTI AMERICAN
AND RADICAL IDEOLOGIES.'
SOME REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS
WELCOME THIS BAN.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER LESTER CHANG, A
REPUBLICAN REPRESENTING PARTS OF
BROOKLYN, SAYS HE WANTS TO SEE
THE END TO DEI MEASURES.
>> DEI IS VERY SPECIFIC.

(09:30):
I FEEL THAT DEI, YOU PUT A
LABEL, IS RACIAL PROFILING.
>> STATE SENATOR GEORGE
BORRELLO, A REPUBLICAN
REPRESENTING PARTS OF THE FINGER
LAKES, SAYS HE WOULD ALSO LIKE
TO SEE AN END TO DEI PROGRAMS.
>> THIS DEI PROGRAM GOES MUCH
DEEPER THAN WHAT IT IS ON THE
SURFACE.
THE SURFACE IS WE WANT EQUITY
BUT THE REALITY IS THAT THIS IS
REALLY ADVANCING A FAR LEFT

(09:51):
RADICAL AGENDA THAT TRAMPLES ON
THE RIGHTS OF PARENTS AND MANY
OTHER THINGS.
>> DEMOCRATS LIKE ASSEMBLY
MEMBER GRACE LEE, REPRESENTING
PARTS OF MANHATTAN, DISAGREE
SAYING NOW IS THE TIME FOR NEW
YORK TO STAND UP AGAINST FEDERAL
THREATS TO EDUCATION.
LEE ADDS TOPICS BROUGHT TO THE
PUBLIC'S ATTENTION BY THE WHITE
HOUSE TODAY, SUCH AS BIRTHRIGHT
CITIZENSHIP, ARE AN EXAMPLE OF
WHY DIVERSE CIVIC EDUCATION IS

(10:12):
IMPORTANT FOR STUDENTS TO LEARN
IN THE CLASSROOM.
>> THIS IDEA OF BIRTHRIGHT
CITIZENSHIP, FOR INSTANCE, THAT
WAS FIRST CHALLENGED IN THE
SUPREME COURT BY A CHINESE
AMERICAN WHOSE CITIZENSHIP WAS
BEING CHALLENGED.
SO, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PARTS OF
THE STORY AND THE HISTORY OF
AMERICA, AND IT'S REALLY

(10:34):
IMPORTANT THAT WE LEARN ABOUT
THE STRUGGLES AND THE FIGHT OF
ASIAN AMERICANS IN AMERICAN
HISTORY BECAUSE, AS WE SEE,
THEY'RE COMING BACK AGAIN.
>> BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP, BEING
CHALLENGED BY PRESIDENT DONALD
TRUMP, IS GUARANTEED BY THE
FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT IN THE
UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.
THE PRINCIPLE WAS LATER
CONFIRMED IN 1898 BY A SUPREME
COURT CASE U.S. V. WONG KIM ARK,

(10:55):
WHICH CLARIFIED THAT CHILDREN
BORN IN THE U.S. TO IMMIGRANT
PARENTS ARE CITIZENS REGARDLESS
OF THEIR PARENTS' IMMIGRATION
STATUS.
IN RESPONSE TO TRUMP'S EXECUTIVE
ORDER LIMITING BIRTHRIGHT
CITIZENSHIP, THREE FEDERAL
JUDGES ORDERED THE GOVERNMENT TO
BE PROHIBITED FROM ENFORCING THE
PRESIDENT'S ORDER.
NOW THE ISSUE HEADS TO THE
SUPREME COURT, BRINGING THE
SUBJECT BEFORE JUSTICES ONCE
AGAIN NEARLY 130 YEARS LATER.

(11:16):
THEY ARE EXPECTED TO HEAR ORAL
ARGUMENTS ON MAY 15.
MIKE HOA NGUYEN, AN ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR OF EDUCATION AT NYU,
SAYS IT'S IMPORTANT FOR STUDENTS
TO HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS
HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
HE SAYS HE DIDN'T LEARN OF WONG
KIM ARK'S CASE UNTIL HE GOT TO A
COLLEGE ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES
CLASSROOM.
>> IT PROVIDED ME WITH A BROADER
UNDERSTANDING OF OUR AMENDMENT,

(11:38):
OF BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AND A
BROADER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW OUR
COUNTRY OPERATES, AND SO WE NEED
TO MAKE SURE STUDENTS HAVE A
REALLY FULL UNDERSTANDING OF OUR
HISTORIES OF HOW COMPLEX AND
DIVERSE OUR HISTORIES ARE, IN
ORDER FOR THEM TO BECOME
CRITICAL CITIZENS.
>> LIU SAYS THE PRESSURE FROM

(11:59):
CHANGES AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL
AROUND DEI PROGRAMS AND
EDUCATION COULD WORK TOWARDS
STATE LEGISLATORS' ADVANTAGE
WITH LEGISLATION LIKE THIS.
HE MAKES THE CASE THAT IT COULD
ALSO WORK AGAINST THEM.
LIU ADDS HE HOPES IT'S THE
FORMER.
AND OTHER LAWMAKERS AGREE.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER MICHAELLE
SOLAGES, A DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING
PARTS OF NASSAU COUNTY AND THE
CHAIR OF THE BLACK, PUERTORICAN,
HISPANIC, AND ASIAN LEGISLATIVE

(12:19):
CAUCUS, SAYS NEW YORK SHOULD
STAND UP AND BE A LEADER
EMPHASIZING IT IS THE STATE'S
RIGHT TO DICTATE ITS CURRICULUM.
>> THERE'S A TERM THAT SAYS THAT
HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE
WINNERS.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
HAVING STUDENTS UNDERSTAND THAT
HISTORY, ALTHOUGH IT'S HURTFUL,
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO
TALK ABOUT SO WE CAN BE BETTER
IN THE FUTURE.

(12:40):
>> SOLAGES STRESSES IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR SCHOOLS TO TEACH
ABOUT ALL OF NEW YORK'S DIVERSE
COMMUNITIES.
ANOTHER BILL LAWMAKERS HOPE TO
PASS WOULD ALSO IMPROVE THE
STATE'S CURRICULUM AROUND BLACK
HISTORY AND TEACHINGS OF SLAVERY
AND RACE.
SOLAGES SAYS THE WAY BLACK
HISTORY IS TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS IS
INADEQUATE TOO OFTEN LIMITED TO
FEW HISTORICAL FIGURES AND
WATERED DOWN NARRATIVES.
NGUYEN SAYS BILLS LIKE THIS ARE
CRITICAL TO TEACHING STUDENTS

(13:01):
ABOUT INTERSECTIONALITY AND
ENSURING STUDENTS ARE RECEIVING
AN ACCURATE, FULL AND COMPLETE
HISTORY OF THE U.S.
>> ONE SORT OF GROUP'S HISTORY
OR STORY IN HISTORY ALONE WILL
NOT GIVE US A FULL PICTURE, BUT
UNDERSTANDING HOW THESE GROUPS
ALL WORK TOGETHER, HOW THEY'VE
LIVED AND THRIVED TOGETHER AND

(13:22):
HOW FOLKS MAY SHARE MORE THAN
ONE IDENTITY AT A GIVEN TIME,
ALL OF THOSE THINGS ALLOW US TO
TELL A MORE ACCURATE STORY OF
HOW BEAUTIFUL AND HOW COMPLEX
AND HOW SOMETIMES CONTRADICTORY
OUR COUNTRY CAN BE.
>> SOME LAWMAKERS SAY PASSING
BILLS LIKE THESE WOULD MEAN
SENDING A STRONG MESSAGE TO
FEDERAL LEADERS THAT NEW YORK

(13:42):
WON'T BACK DOWN WHEN IT COMES TO
FIGHTING FOR FAIR AND DIVERSE
EDUCATION.
WITH ABOUT TWO MONTHS LEFT OF
THE LEGISLATIVE YEAR, WE'LL HAVE
TO SEE JUST HOW FAR THESE
POLICIES GO.
ELISE KLINE, NEW YORK NOW.
>> THE STATE COMMISSION ON
ETHICS AND LOBBYING IN
GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH
OVERSEEING AND REGULATING ETHICS
AND LOBBYING ACTIVITIES IN THE

(14:04):
STATE.
SINCE IT WAS FIRST ESTABLISHED
JUST THREE YEARS AGO, THE BODY
HAS FACED AN UPHILL BATTLE IN
SOLIDIFYING ITS
CONSTITUTIONALITY.
BUT EARLIER THIS YEAR, THE COURT
OF APPEALS RULED IN FAVOR OF THE
COMMISSION'S CREATION AND
STRUCTURE.
WE SAT DOWN WITH THE SANFORD
BERLAND WHO SERVES AS EXECUTIVE

(14:26):
DIRECTOR OF THE COMMISSION TO
DISCUSS ITS WORK AND THEIR
REQUEST FOR FUNDING IN THE STATE
BUDGET THIS YEAR.
HERE'S THAT INTERVIEW.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US TODAY, SANDY.
>> THANK YOU, SHANTEL.
>> NOW, FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO MAY
NOT BE FAMILIAR, WHAT IS THE
STATE COMMISSION ON ETHICS AND

(14:46):
LOBBYING IN GOVERNMENT TASKED
WITH, AND WHAT IS YOUR
JURISDICTION?
>> WE WERE TASKED WITH ENFORCING
THE STATE'S CONFLICT OF INTEREST
IN ETHICS LAWS AS WELL AS
LOBBYING LAWS GOVERNING LOBBYING
ACTIVITY AT BOTH THE STATE AND
THE LOCAL LEVELS.
WE ALSO PROVIDE ETHICS TRAINING
TO THE ENTIRE EXECUTIVE
WORKFORCE THAT'S OVER 330,000

(15:07):
INDIVIDUALS.
WE PROCESS FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE
STATEMENTS FROM APPROXIMATELY
34,000 STATE EMPLOYEES EVERY
YEAR.
WE HANDLE OVER 70,000 LOBBYING
FILINGS ANNUALLY, AND WE'RE
RESPONSIBLE BOTH FOR COMPLIANCE
AND ENFORCEMENT, AS WELL AS
EDUCATING THE WORKFORCE IN BOTH

(15:29):
THE EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE
BRANCHES AND PROVIDING
INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC ABOUT
LOBBYING ACTIVITY AND STATE
GOVERNMENT ACTIVITY.
>> SOUNDS LIKE REALLY IMPORTANT
WORK, AND I KNOW THE COMMISSION
RECENTLY CELEBRATED A BIG LEGAL
WIN IN A CASE AGAINST FORMER
GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.
CUOMO WAS CHALLENGING THE
CREATION AND THE STRUCTURE OF

(15:49):
THE COMMISSION AT A TIME WHEN
THE BODY LAUNCHED AN INDEPENDENT
INVESTIGATION INTO THE FORMER
GOVERNOR'S BOOK DEAL.
I KNOW THAT A JUDGE ULTIMATELY
UPHELD THE COMMISSION'S
CREATION, SO CAN YOU HELP US
UNDERSTAND THE CASE?
WHAT WAS AT STAKE FOR THE
COMMISSION AND HOW YOU'RE
FEELING AFTER THE RULING?
>> YES, FORMER GOVERNOR CUOMO

(16:10):
CHALLENGED THE CONSTITUENCY OF
THE COMMISSION AND ITS
JURISDICTION.
HIS CHALLENGE QUESTIONED WHETHER
A MAJORITY OF THE COMMISSIONERS,
PERHAPS ALL OF THEM, SHOULD BE
APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR RATHER
THAN THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE,
WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED BY THE
LEGISLATURE AND THE CHIEF
EXECUTIVE OF THE STATE, WHICH

(16:32):
INVOLVES THE LEGISLATIVE
LEADERSHIP HAVING SIX
APPOINTMENTS OUT OF THE 11
COMMISSIONERS IN THE BODY, THE
GOVERNOR HAS THREE APPOINTMENTS,
AND THEN THE CONTROLLER AND THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE
EACH HAVE ONE.
ULTIMATELY, THE COURT OF
APPEALS, THE HIGHEST COURT IN
THE STATE, RULED THAT NEW YORK'S

(16:55):
SEPARATION OF POWERS DOCTRINE IS
FLEXIBLE ENOUGH AND/OR A
TRADITION OF DISPERSING THE
APPOINTMENT POWER FOR EXECUTIVE
BRANCH AGENCIES AND COMMISSIONS
IS FLEXIBLE ENOUGH AS WELL IN
THE IMPORTANT CASE OF ETHICS
REGULATION OF GOVERNMENT TO
PERMIT THE STRUCTURE THAT WE

(17:16):
HAVE.
AS A RESULT WE'RE NOW ABLE TO
MOVE FORWARD WITH ALL ASPECTS OF
OUR JURISDICTION, PARTICULARLY
WITH RESPECT TO MOVING FORWARD
WITH ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS.
>> AND I KNOW THE COMMISSION WAS
CREATED AS A WAY TO REPLACE THE
JOINT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ETHICS.
SO IN THE THREE YEARS SINCE THE
COMMISSION WAS ESTABLISHED, WHAT

(17:36):
ARE SOME OF THE KEY DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN THE COMMISSION AND THE
FORMER ETHICS BODY?
>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF KEY
DIFFERENCES.
ONE, PROBABLY THE MOST OBVIOUS,
IS THAT UNDER THE OLD
ARRANGEMENT, THE COMMISSION WAS
RESPONSIBLE FOR OVERSEEING
ETHICS TRAINING FOR POLICYMAKERS
AND THRESHOLD FILERS.
SO THAT WAS ABOUT A TENTH OF THE
EXECUTIVE WORKFORCE, SOMETHING

(17:56):
OVER 30,000 INDIVIDUALS.
AND THAT WAS A TRIENNIAL, EVERY
THREE YEAR TRADING REGIME.
UNDER OUR STATUTE, AS OF 2022,
EVERY EMPLOYEE IN THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH AND AGAIN, THAT'S OVER
330,000 INDIVIDUALS HAS TO HAVE
SOME FORM OF ETHICS TRAINING

(18:17):
EVERY YEAR.
SO THAT'S A MAJOR, MAJOR CHANGE.
WE SEE THAT AS A 30 FOLD
INCREASE.
IN ADDITION, THE METHODOLOGY
THAT'S USED IN MOVING
INVESTIGATIONS ALONG HAS BEEN
SOMEWHAT STREAMLINED.
SO STAFF HAS GREATER FLEXIBILITY
IN MOVING INVESTIGATIONS FROM
THE INFORMAL TO THE FORMAL STAGE

(18:39):
AND THEN PRESENTING
RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE
COMMISSION, TO THE
COMMISSIONERS, FOR MOVING THOSE
ON TO FORMAL HEARING.
THAT'S A MAJOR CHANGE.
THERE'S SOME OTHER INCIDENTAL
CHANGES ALONG THE WAY.
ALTHOUGH THE PRIOR COMMISSION
DID HAVE, ULTIMATELY, THE COURTS
RULED THE IMPLICIT ABILITY TO
ARTICULATE LOBBYING REGULATIONS,

(19:02):
FORMAL REGULATIONS.
THAT'S NOW EXPLICIT IN THE
STATUTE.
AND THE STATUTE, THE ETHICS
COMMISSION REFORM ACT OF 2022,
WHICH CREATED OUR AGENCY, GIVES
US BROAD REGULATORY POWER AND
THE POWER TO PROMULGATE
REGULATIONS ACROSS THE BREADTH
OF ALL OF OUR ACTIVITIES.
>> AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING

(19:22):
THAT THE COMMISSION ALSO HAS
SOME PRETTY BIG PLANS TO ISSUE
MORE LOBBYING DATA.
SO CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT
WOULD ENTAIL AND WHAT TYPE OF
DATA YOU'RE HOPING TO MAKE MORE
PUBLIC?
>> YEAH, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
THINGS.
WE DO HAVE A FAIRLY ROBUST
LOBBYING APPLICATION.
SO AS LOBBYING INFORMATION COMES
IN, IT IS AVAILABLE TO THE

(19:42):
PUBLIC, BUT IT REQUIRES AN
AFFIRMATIVE ACT ON THE PART OF
INDIVIDUALS TO GET INTO IT.
IN FACT, IN 2023, WE UPLOADED
NEARLY 200 MILLION PIECES OF
DATA INTO THE SO CALLED OPEN AND
WIDE DATABASE TO MAKE THAT
PUBLICLY AVAILABLE.
THAT STILL REQUIRES SOME
SOPHISTICATION TO USE.

(20:03):
WE ARE NOW PLANNING, AND
SHORTLY, WITHIN THE WEEK, WE'LL
BE ISSUING OUR FIRST SO CALLED
BI MONTHLY REPORT.
SO WE'RE TAKING THE DATA THAT
LOBBYISTS FILE WITH US EVERY TWO
MONTHS REFLECTING ON THEIR
LOBBYING, REPORTING THEIR
LOBBYING ACTIVITY FOR THE PRIOR
PERIOD, IN THIS CASE JANUARY,
FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, AND WE'LL

(20:24):
BE PUTTING OUT SOME SUMMARY
ANALYSIS OF THAT DATA SHOWING
HOW MUCH IS BEING SPENT ON
LOBBYING ACTIVITY, THE STATE
OFFICIALS WHO ARE BEING LOBBIED,
STATE OR LOCAL OFFICIALS WHO ARE
BEING LOBBIED, AND THE SUBJECT
MATTER OF THAT LOBBYING.
AND WE'RE PLANNING TO DO THAT
EVERY TWO MONTHS AND MAKE THAT
PUBLICLY AVAILABLE.

(20:44):
AND WE'LL DO THAT THROUGHOUT THE
YEAR.
SO THAT'S A BIG CHANGE FROM
PRIOR PRACTICE WHERE, IF ANYBODY
WAS INTERESTED IN THE DATA
THEY'D HAVE TO GO INTO THE
SYSTEM.
NOW WE'LL PROVIDE SUMMARY
ANALYSES AND SNAPSHOTS, AND ONE
WE'LL BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY
COMPARE FROM PERIOD TO PERIOD
HOW THE FOCI OF LOBBYING
ACTIVITY IS CHANGING, IF IT IS
CHANGING, OR IF THE COST CHANGE

(21:06):
REMAINS THE SAME.
>> AND IT SEEMS LIKE LOBBYING IN
THE STATE DEFINITELY SEEMS TO BE
BOOMING.
A RECENT REPORT BY THE
COMMISSION SHOWED A 4.5% GROWTH
IN LOBBYING LAST YEAR COMPARED
TO 2023.
THAT TOTALLED TO ABOUT $337
MILLION.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS DRIVING
THIS GROWTH?

(21:26):
>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S FOR THE
EXPERTS TO STUDY.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE COSTS THAT
INCREASE EVERY YEAR FOR NORMAL
KINDS OF ACTIVITY.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INTERESTING
ISSUES, AND YOU'LL SEE IN THE
DATA WHERE THE CONCENTRATION IS
THAT HAVE BEEN COMING UP.
BUT THERE HAS BEEN A STEADY

(21:47):
INCREASE IN LOBBYING SPEND,
FRANKLY, SINCE THE PANDEMIC.
AND WE DON'T SEE IT DECLINING.
AND IN FACT, WE THINK AS THE
SNAPSHOTS THAT I'VE BEEN TALKING
ABOUT, THE BIMONTHLY SNAPSHOTS
COME OUT, YOU SEE THE
PROGRESSION OF SPENDING.
AND WE THINK IT LOOKS AS IF 2025
IS ON TRACK TO MEET AND POSSIBLY

(22:08):
EXCEED THE 2024 NUMBERS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT REMAINS TO
BE SEEN.
WE'LL ONLY HAVE THE FIRST TWO
MONTHS OF THE YEAR.
>> AND APART FROM REPORTING
AFTER THE FACT, HOW DOES THE
COMMISSION ENFORCE ITS RULES AND
REGULATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO
LOBBYING?
>> WE HAVE A SYSTEM.
EVERY LOBBYING FILING THAT COMES
IN IS SUBJECT TO A PRELIMINARY

(22:30):
REVIEW FOR COMPLETENESS AND
ACCURACY AND CONSISTENCY.
IN ADDITION, THERE'S THE
STATUTORY AUDIT THAT IS
CONDUCTED.
WE CONDUCT APPROXIMATELY A
THOUSAND AUDITS OF LOBBYING
FILINGS EVERY YEAR, AND OUR
GOAL, FRANKLY, IS TO CONTINUE TO

(22:51):
EXPAND OUR AUDIT FUNCTION.
IT'S A RANDOMIZED SYSTEM THAT'S
USED.
IT'S DICTATED BY STATUTE.
WE HAVE OUTSIDE VENDORS MAKING
THE SELECTIONS FOR US SO THERE'S
NO QUESTION OF ANY KIND OF
TARGETING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
TAKING PLACE, SO IT IS A RANDOM
PROCESS.
BUT IT'S VERY, VERY THOROUGH.

(23:11):
AND WE FIND THAT IT'S VERY
EFFECTIVE AND, FRANKLY, OUR GOAL
WAS TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF
AUDITS THAT WE DO.
OVER THE PAST YEAR WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE A GREATER FOCUS ON SO
CALLED SOURCE OF FUNDING
DISCLOSURES.
THE STATUTES DO REQUIRE IN
CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, WHEN
CERTAIN THRESHOLDS ARE MET IN
LOBBYING SPENDING BY CERTAIN

(23:33):
KINDS OF ENTITIES, THAT SOURCES
OF THEIR FUNDING FOR THEIR
ACTIVITIES GENERALLY BE
DISCLOSED.
AND WE'RE GOING TO PUT A CLOSER
EMPHASIS ON EXAMINING THOSE
SOURCES.
AND AGAIN, ALL OF THAT
INFORMATION IS PUBLICLY
AVAILABLE AS IT'S FILED.
>> AND OF COURSE, IT IS BUDGET
SEASON AT THE STATE CAPITOL AND
LEADERS ARE ACTIVELY NEGOTIATING

(23:54):
A FINAL DEAL.
SO WHAT TYPE OF FUNDING IS THE
COMMISSION LOOKING FOR IN THE
FINAL AGREEMENT?
>> WE HAVE REQUESTED AN
INCREASE.
OUR CURRENT BUDGET IS JUST
UNDER, FOR THE PAST YEAR, $8.1
MILLION.
WE HAVE REQUESTED AN INCREASE OF
JUST OVER 844,000.
THE MAJORITY OF THAT IS FOR

(24:16):
INCREASED STAFFING AND, FRANKLY,
IT'S TO ACHIEVE THE STAFFING
PLAN THAT THE LEGISLATURE
APPROVED IN PRIOR BUDGETS BUT
WHICH, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS
INCLUDING THE FACT OF THE CUOMO
LITIGATION, WE HAVEN'T ACHIEVED.
WE WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH
FILLING OUT OUR FULL STAFFING
PLAN GOING FROM A HEADCOUNT
CURRENTLY OF ABOUT 58 TO A
HEADCOUNT OF 68.

(24:37):
WE NEED SOME MORE SPACE FOR OUR
TRAINING FUNCTION, WHICH WE
CONTINUE TO EXPAND TO MEET THAT
VERY LARGE COMMITMENT THAT WE
HAVE TO ENSURING THAT THERE'S
ETHICS TRAINING EVERY YEAR FOR
EVERY MEMBER OF THE STATE
WORKFORCE.
AND OF COURSE, OUR COSTS ARE
GOING UP AS WELL FOR ALL KINDS

(24:58):
OF THINGS.
WE'VE IMPROVED OUR TECHNOLOGY,
PARTICULARLY IN OUR
INVESTIGATION AND ENFORCEMENT
UNIT.
WE WANT TO UPGRADE OUR
TECHNOLOGY IN OUR FINANCIAL
DISCLOSURE UNIT, AND WE HAVE
SOME EXPANSIONS IN OUR AUDITING
SOFTWARE THAT ALL ENTAIL
EXPENSE.
>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S
ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE FOR
TODAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE

(25:18):
TIME TO SPEAK WITH US TODAY,
SANDY.
>> SHANTEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR GIVING ME AND THE COMMISSION
THIS OPPORTUNITY.
IT'S VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
>> AND WE WERE SPEAKING WITH
SANFORD BERLAND, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK STATE
COMMISSION ON ETHICS AND
LOBBYING IN GOVERNMENT.
AND FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE
WORK OF THE COMMISSION, YOU CAN

(25:40):
VISIT OUR WEBSITE.
THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG.
WELL, THAT DOES IT FOR THIS
EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN AND SEE
YOU NEXT WEEK.

(26:05):
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(26:35):
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PROVIDED BY WNET.