April 11, 2025 • 26 mins
It's been over a week since the April 1st deadline and state budget negotiations have stalled because of discovery reform! Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie introduced a bill that would allow lawmakers to get paid when the budget is late due to policy. We're joined by Patrick Orecki, director of state studies with the Citizens Budget Commission, to unpack the calls from good government groups for more transparency in the state budget process for New Yorkers. State Sen. Kristen Gonzalez (D - Chair of Internet and Technology Committee) joins us to discuss artificial intelligence regulatory priorities at the Capitol this year.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[THEME MUSIC]
(00:19):
WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION
OF NEW YORK NOW.
I'M SHANTEL DESTRA.
THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATIVE
LEADERS STILL HAVE NOT REACHED
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE FINAL
STATE BUDGET.
THE NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEEN
STALLED BECAUSE OF POLICY
DEBATES MOSTLY AROUND CHANGING
THE STATE'S DISCOVERY LAWS.
THE CHANGES PROPOSED BY GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL RELATE TO HOW AND
(00:40):
WHEN PROSECUTORS MUST TURN OVER
EVIDENCE IN COURT CASES.
AT A PRESS CONFERENCE, THE
GOVERNOR SAID THAT SHE WOULD NOT
MOVE FORWARD WITH A BUDGET THAT
DOES NOT MAKE NEW YORK SAFER AND
MORE AFFORDABLE.
>> I MET WITH THE LEADERS AGAIN
TODAY.
TALKED TO THE DA’S, BROUGHT THEM UP
HERE.
THE CONSTANT COMMUNICATION, NOT
JUST AT OUR LEVEL, BUT WITH OUR
(01:01):
STAFFS, WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO
A POSITION THAT WILL SOLVE THE
PROBLEM WE HAVE, RESPOND TO WHAT
THE DA’S NEED, UNDERSTAND THE
RIGHTS OF DEFENDANTS, AND MAKE
THIS A BETTER PROCESS FOR
EVERYONE.
>> MEANWHILE, MEMBERS OF THE
LEGISLATURE INCLUDING MEMBERS OF
THE BLACK, PUERTO RICAN,
HISPANIC AND ASIAN CAUCUS ARGUE
THERE ARE THE OTHER WAYS TO
(01:22):
ADDRESS THE ISSUE WITHOUT
WEAKENING THE SYSTEM.
THIS WEEK, ASSEMBLY SPEAKER CARL
HEASTIE ALSO INTRODUCED A BILL
THAT WOULD ALLOW LAWMAKERS TO
GET PAID WHEN THE BUDGET IS
DELAYED BECAUSE OF POLICY
MEASURES INTRODUCED BY THE
EXECUTIVE CHAMBER.
IN RESPONSE TO THAT MOVE, A
SPOKEPERSON FROM THE GOVERNOR'S
(01:43):
OFFICE RESPONDED WITH A POINTED
STATEMENT.
THE STATEMENT SAID IF, QUOTE,
"THE HIGHEST PAID STATE
LAWMAKERS IN AMERICA ARE WORRIED
ABOUT THEIR PAY, THEY SHOULD
COME TO THE TABLE AND PASS A
BUDGET WITH THE GOVERNOR'S
AGENDA."
THE LATEST BUDGET EXTENDER MOVED
THE DEADLINE TO NEXT WEEK.
LAWMAKERS WERE SCHEDULED TO HAVE
(02:04):
A TWO WEEK RECESS AT THE END OF
APRIL BUT THE LACK OF A FINAL
STATE BUDGET PUTS THAT PLAN IN
LIMBO.
AND AMID ALL OF THE LATE BUDGET
DRAMA, GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS
HAVE LONG CALLED FOR MORE
TRANSPARENCY.
THE GROUPS ARE CALLING ON THE
LEADERS TO SHARE THE FINANCIAL
PLAN TABLES FOR THE STATE BUDGET
WHEN BILLS ARE BEING VOTED ON.
(02:25):
WE SAT DOWN WITH PATRICK ORECKI
OF THE CITIZENS BUDGET
COMMISSION FOR MORE ON THAT.
HERE'S THAT INTERVIEW.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
ME ON THE SHOW AGAIN, PATRICK.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> NOW, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE,
NATURALLY, I WANTED TO START
WITH TRANSPARENCY.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE
COMMISSION, ALONG WITH OTHER
GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS ACROSS
(02:46):
THE STATE, HAVE LONG PUSHED FOR
TRANSPARENCY IN THE STATE BUDGET
PROCESS.
SO I WANTED TO GET AN
UNDERSTANDING FROM YOU WHAT
LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY IS NEEDED
AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL IT TAKE
FOR THAT TO BE ACHIEVED.
>> YEAH. WELL, OUR
RECOMMENDATIONS REALLY STEM FROM
THE OVERARCHING BELIEF THAT NEW
YORKERS DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT'S
IN THE BUDGET WHEN IT'S VOTED ON
(03:06):
AND BEING PASSED.
AND FRANKLY RIGHT NOW THE NEW
YORK STATE BUDGET PROCESS LEAVES
A LOT UNTOLD WHEN THE BUDGET
BILLS ACTUALLY ARE ENACTED.
AND ONE OF OUR BIG
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD
FOR MANY YEARS AND OF COURSE
WE'RE WE'RE URGING SOME PROGRESS
THIS YEAR IS TO JUST PUBLISH
BASIC FINANCIAL PLAN TABLES WHEN
THE BUDGET BILLS ARE VOTED ON.
(03:27):
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
WHAT A BUDGET OUGHT TO LOOK
LIKE, IT'S A TABLE OF NUMBERS
THAT SHOWS WHERE YOUR MONEY'S
COMING FROM AND WHERE IT'S
GOING.
THE STATE BUDGET TAKES THE FORM
OF THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF
LEGALESE, SO THOSE BASIC TABLES
WHEN THE BILLS ARE VOTED ON
AREN'T AVAILABLE TO NEW YORKERS,
BUT THEY SHOULD BE.
>> RIGHT, AND THIS IS AN ACT
THAT THE COMMISSION HAS
PRESENTED TO THE GOVERNOR AND
(03:48):
THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR SOME
TIME.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THE HOLDUP
IS THERE?
IS IT TRULY A BIG LIFT IN ORDER
TO RELEASE THESE FINANCIAL
TIMETABLES?
>> I THINK WITH ANYTHING,
THERE'S A TON OF MOMENTUM FOR
JUST DOING WHAT'S ALWAYS BEEN
DONE.
SO IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO UNSTICK
SOMETHING AND MAKE PROGRESS
ANEW.
SO ONE OF THE BIG PIECES OF
FEEDBACK THAT WE OFTEN GET FROM
THE STATE IS THAT THEY'RE
(04:08):
INCREDIBLY BUSY AT THIS TIME,
WHICH OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE.
THESE STAFF MEMBERS ARE WORKING
DAY AND NIGHT TO NEGOTIATE THAT
BUDGET.
LAWMAKERS ARE WORKING WELL INTO
THE NIGHT TO VOTE ON THEM.
BUT OUR RESPONSE TO THAT IS
EITHER LAWMAKERS ARE VOTING
WITHOUT THESE TYPES OF TABLES,
THESE BASIC SUMMARIES OF WHAT
THE BUDGET LOOKS LIKE, OR THEY
DO HAVE THAT AND IT'S NOT
RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC.
(04:29):
SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS
REALLY THREE TABLES THAT JUST
SHOW WHAT THE BUDGET DOES, WHAT
THE IMPACTS ARE OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE OF YEARS AS WELL.
>> AND FROM YOUR PURVIEW, DO NEW
YORKERS UNDERSTAND THE
IMPLICATIONS OF NOT HAVING THESE
FINANCIAL TIMETABLES RELEASED?
>> THEY PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THE
WAY THEY WOULD SEE IT IS
PROBABLY BY WATCHING YOUR SHOW
AND OTHER PROGRAMS OR READING IT
(04:50):
IN THE NEWS WHERE THE DETAILS
AREN'T JUST REALLY AVAILABLE.
AND THEY MIGHT NOT, YOU KNOW, IF
THEY READ A STORY, SAY, "WELL,
IS THE BUDGET BALANCED?
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE GOING
INTO FUTURE YEARS, I CARE ABOUT
THE FUTURE AS WELL."
AND THOSE DETAILS JUST AREN'T
AVAILABLE.
SO IT'S HARD FOR US TO TALK
ABOUT WHEN THE BUDGET COMES OUT
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW, WHICH IS
THOSE TYPES OF IMPACTS, WHICH WE
(05:12):
SHOULD KNOW.
>> AND OF COURSE, AT THE TIME
THAT THE EXECUTIVE CHAMBER AND
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ARE
NEGOTIATING THE STATE BUDGET,
THERE IS THE BACKDROP OF
POTENTIAL FEDERAL CUTS COMING
DOWN FROM WASHINGTON.
I KNOW THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAVE
INDICATED THE POSSIBILITY OF
CALLING A SPECIAL SESSION
SOMETIME IN THE SUMMER OR LATER
(05:32):
IN THE YEAR TO ADDRESS THESE
FEDERAL CUTS.
YOU KNOW, SO HOW SHOULD THEY BE
LOOKING TO ADDRESS IT AND
CONSIDER IT DURING THIS BUDGET
SEASON?
>> YEAH, IT'S A REALLY STICKY
POSITION TO BE IN, FRANKLY,
BECAUSE WE ARE QUITE CERTAIN
THAT SOME SIGNIFICANT CUTS WILL
COME FROM WASHINGTON AT SOME
POINT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL
MONTHS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WILL
BE.
(05:52):
WE DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THEY WILL
BE.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE
STATE CAN'T DO SOME PREPARATION
RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE
WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF BUDGET
MAKING AT THIS TIME.
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE
STATE HAS BEEN TO AT LEAST SET
ASIDE ABOUT TWO BILLION DOLLARS
FROM CURRENT CASH, JUST TO SAY
IF SOMETHING COMES UP IN THE
MIDDLE OF THE YEAR FROM
WASHINGTON AND TAKES IMMEDIATE
EFFECT, YOU HAVE A BIT OF A
CUSHION TO DEAL WITH THE
(06:13):
IMMEDIATE YOU KNOW, RESPONSE TO
ANY FEDERAL CUT.
THEN WHEN YOU RECONVENE TO DO
THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR OR WHENEVER
YOU NEED TO HAVE THOSE LONGER
TERM DISCUSSIONS, YOU ALSO
SHOULD HAVE A PRIORITY LIST OF
WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BACKFILL
LOST FEDERAL MONEY, WHERE YOU
CAN FIND SOME SAVINGS, WHERE YOU
CAN'T REPLACE FEDERAL DOLLARS
AND REALLY HAVE A MULTI YEAR
(06:34):
VIEW OF WHAT COULD COME FROM
WASHINGTON, BECAUSE IT'S NOT
GOING TO BE A ONE AND DONE
THING.
WHATEVER CUTS DO COME FROM DC
ARE GOING TO BE RECURRING AND
INDEFINITE.
>> AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE
COMMISSION HAS, YOU KNOW, QUITE
A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
BUDGET PROCESS AND FOR DEALING
WITH TRANSPARENCY, DEALING WITH
THESE FEDERAL CUTS.
HOW WOULD YOU SAY YOUR
COMMUNICATION IS WITH THE BUDGET
(06:55):
OFFICE AND WITH THE EXECUTIVE
CHAMBER?
HAVE THEY BEEN RECEPTIVE TO
THESE RECOMMENDATIONS?
>> YEAH, AND NOT ONLY WITH THE
EXECUTIVE, BUT WITH THE
LEGISLATURE TOO.
SO, OF COURSE, OUR
RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS COMING
ENACTED BUDGET, WHENEVER THAT
DOES COME, IS TO HAVE FINANCIAL
PLAN TABLES WITH THOSE BILLS.
WE ALSO RECOMMEND THE SAME THING
WHEN THE LEGISLATURE INTRODUCES
THEIR OWN COUNTERPROPOSALS, AND
(07:16):
WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS FROM
BOTH THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE
TO THEIR CREDIT ON PUBLISHING
THINGS.
OF COURSE WE HAVE FURTHER
IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'D LOVE TO
SEE THEM MAKE, BUT THERE HAS
BEEN PROGRESS TOWARD THAT.
SO WE HOPE THAT THIS TYPE OF
SIMPLE URGING OF TRANSPARENCY
AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE BUDGET
PROCESS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL
BE, YOU KNOW, EMBRACED GOING
FORWARD TOO.
>> AND AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS, YOU
(07:37):
KNOW, IN THE BUDGET OFFICE AND
YOU SPECIFICALLY FOCUS ON THINGS
LIKE MEDICAID AND PUBLIC HEALTH
PROGRAMS, HOW SHOULD THE STATE
BE LOOKING TO PREPARE FOR
POTENTIAL FEDERAL CUTS AS IT
RELATES TO MEDICAID WHEN WE KNOW
IT TAKES UP SO MUCH OF THE STATE
BUDGET?
>> YEAH, IT'S REALLY AN
EXERCISE, I THINK, IN
PRIORITIZING EVERYTHING IN THE
(07:57):
BUDGET BECAUSE IT'S ALL PART OF
THE SAME PIE.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT WHERE
SAVINGS MIGHT BE POSSIBLE OR
WHERE THE BIG NEW SPENDING IS,
IT'S OFTEN IN BIG BUCKETS LIKE
MEDICAID AND SCHOOL AID, WHICH
ALONE ARE MORE THAN HALF OF THE
STATE'S SPENDING PLAN.
SO YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO LOOK
AT THOSE THINGS.
BUT I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH THE
FEDERAL IMPLICATIONS IN MIND,
IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO TAKE STOCK
OF WHAT THE STATE'S PRIORITIES
(08:18):
ARE, WHERE STATE DOLLARS HAVE
THE MOST IMPACT AND MAKE SURE
THAT THOSE ARE THE THINGS YOU'RE
PROTECTING WHENEVER THINGS COME
FROM WASHINGTON.
>> WHEN I THINK OF THE BUDGET
THIS YEAR, A BIG THING FOR ME IS
TRULY AFFORDABILITY.
I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A FOCUS FOR
BOTH THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATURE FOR SOME TIME THIS
YEAR.
DOES THE COMMISSION HAVE ANY
POSITION ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS
(08:40):
THAT EITHER THE GOVERNOR OR
LEGISLATURE HAVE PUT FORTH IN
TERMS OF MAKING NEW YORK TRULY
AFFORDABLE?
>> YEAH, BOTTOM LINE, THE
EMPHASIS ON AFFORDABILITY IS A
GREAT THING TO SEE.
I THINK IT'S WHAT VOTERS ARE
DEMANDING AND IT'S GOOD TO SEE
ELECTED LEADERS REALLY TAKE THAT
ON AS A PRIORITY.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE
BUDGET PROPOSALS, THERE ARE KIND
(09:00):
OF THREE THINGS THAT JUMP OUT ON
THE AFFORDABILITY FRONT.
IT'S THE INFLATION REFUND CHECKS
THAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED.
IT IS THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT
AND THE CHILD TAX CREDIT
ENHANCEMENT.
SO THOSE THREE THINGS ARE ALL
SORT OF ATTEMPTING TO MOVE IN
THAT DIRECTION, AND I THINK TO A
DEGREE THAT THE CHILD TAX CREDIT
AND THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT GET
(09:20):
AT SOME OF THOSE ISSUES ON THE
FRINGES AT LEAST, OUR POSITION
IS THAT THE INFLATION REFUND
CHECKS, WHICH IS $3 BILLION TO
BE SENT OUT TO NEW YORKERS IN
INCREMENTS OF EITHER $300 OR
$500, ARE NOT THE BEST WAY TO
USE $3 BILLION.
THAT'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT RECEIVE
THOSE CHECKS WOULD ABSOLUTELY
BENEFIT FROM THEM.
MANY WOULD NOT.
(09:41):
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION THERE HAS
BEEN TO STEP BACK FROM THAT
PROPOSAL AND INSTEAD THINK OF
WHERE $3 BILLION IS GOING TO
HAVE THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST
IMPACT, NOT THE BROADEST IMPACT,
BUT THE GREATEST IMPACT.
>> AND WE ARE BEYOND THE APRIL
1ST DEADLINE FOR THE STATE
BUDGET.
THE GOVERNOR HAS INDICATED THAT
SHE'S GOING TO WAIT AS LONG AS
(10:02):
POSSIBLE TO MAKE SURE THAT SOME
OF HER PRIORITIES MAKE IT INTO
THE BUDGET.
SHE'S WILLING TO TAKE AS LONG AS
IT TAKES.
AND THIS IS THE FOURTH
CONSECUTIVE STATE BUDGET THAT
HAS BEEN LATE.
SO I WANTED TO GET YOUR
PERSPECTIVE ON SOME OF THE
IMPLICATIONS THAT COME WITH A
STATE BUDGET BEING LATE.
DO YOU THINK THAT IT EVEN
MATTERS TO NEW YORKERS AT THIS
(10:22):
POINT IN TIME, THAT THE BUDGET
IS LATE?
YEAH, I THINK WHEN WE'RE IN THIS
TERRITORY WHERE IT'S A COUPLE
DAYS OR A COUPLE WEEKS LATE,
THAT DOESN'T HAVE MASSIVE
IMPLICATIONS RIGHT AWAY.
YOU WOULD RATHER SEE A GOOD,
SLIGHTLY LATE BUDGET THAN A
HURRIED, BAD BUDGET THAT'S ON
TIME.
WHEN YOU START TO SEE REAL WORLD
IMPLICATIONS OF A LATE BUDGET IS
(10:44):
WHEN SCHOOLS ARE TRYING TO CRAFT
THEIR OWN BUDGETS FOR THE COMING
YEAR AND SENDING THEIR BUDGETS
TO VOTE TO THEIR SCHOOL
DISTRICTS.
AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF
NEW YORK WHERE ABOUT HALF OF THE
STATE'S POPULATION IS AND MANY
MORE NEW YORKERS WORK, THEIR
FISCAL YEAR OPERATES FROM JULY
TO JUNE.
SO THEY RELY A LOT ON WHAT THE
(11:05):
STATE DOES AS WELL.
SO AS YOU START TO GET LATER AND
INTO THE LATE SPRING OR EVEN
EARLY SUMMER, YOU START TO HAVE
BIG IMPLICATIONS FOR LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS TOO.
>> AND LOOKING AHEAD AT BUDGETS
TO COME, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
BIGGEST POLICY ITEMS OR THINGS
THAT THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATURE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND
WHEN THEY'RE PREPARING FOR
BUDGETS?
>> YEAH, I THINK TRANSPARENCY
(11:27):
AND ACCOUNTABILITY IS OF COURSE
SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY CBC BUT
MANY OTHER GOVERNMENT WATCHDOGS
ARE GOING TO PUSH.
SO YOU KNOW MAKING THE BUDGET
PROCESS BETTER BY ANY MEANS IS
IMPORTANT INCLUDING THE
FINANCIAL PLAN TABLES LIKE WE
TALKED ABOUT.
I THINK HAVING A LONG RUN VIEW
IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TOO, YOU
KNOW.
THERE'S AN IMPETUS, ESPECIALLY
(11:47):
WHEN PEOPLE ARE UP FOR
REELECTION EVERY TWO YEARS, TO
DELIVER SOMETHING NEW, TO BE
ABLE TO HAND OUT CHECKS EVERY
YEAR OR TWO.
BUT HAVING A LONG RUN VIEW AND
MAKING SURE THAT NEW YORK IS
AFFORDABLE AND ECONOMICALLY
COMPETITIVE IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT
IN THE BUDGET MAKING PROCESS AS
WELL.
>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S
ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TODAY,
BUT WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH
(12:07):
US.
> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> AND WE WERE SPEAKING WITH
PATRICK ORECKI, DIRECTOR OF
STATE STUDIES WITH THE CITIZENS
BUDGET COMMISSION.
NOW TURNING TO ANOTHER IMPORTANT
TOPIC.
IN THIS NEXT SEGMENT, WE SAT
DOWN WITH STATE SENATOR KRISTEN
GONZALEZ TO UNPACK THE
PRIORITIES AROUND ARTIFICIAL
(12:28):
INTELLIGENCE AT THE STATE
CAPITOL.
AFTER PASSING LEGISLATION TO
LIMIT THE RELIANCE ON AI BY
STATE AGENCIES, THE SENATOR IS
HOPING TO BUILD ON THAT WORK
BEFORE THE END OF SESSION.
HERE'S THAT CONVERSATION.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US TODAY, SENATOR.
>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.
(12:48):
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> LAST YEAR, YOU SPONSORED
LEGISLATION THAT WAS SIGNED AND
PASSED INTO LAW KNOWN AS THE
LOADING ACT.
NOW THIS LAW WOULD ESSENTIALLY
REGULATE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
SO THAT STATE AGENCIES WOULDN'T
BE RELYING ON IT TO MAKE
DECISIONS.
SO CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE
IMPETUS OF THIS LEGISLATION AND
HOW IT WORKS LOGISTICALLY?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
(13:09):
SO I CHAIRED THE SENATE INTERNET
TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE AND I'M
ALSO A FORMER TECH WORKER.
SO I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW OUR
WORLD IS GETTING INCREASINGLY
DIGITAL AND TAKING OVER THE
COMMITTEE WITH THE NATIONAL
CONVERSATION ON ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, IT WAS A NATURAL
FIT TO BE ABLE TO START
REGULATING IT AT THE STATE
LEVEL.
THE FIRST THING WE DID WAS WE
PASSED A BILL CALLED THE NEW
(13:30):
YORK FAIR ACT, WHICH REGULATED
DEEP FAKES IN ELECTIONS.
AND THAT WAS TO PROTECT, OF
COURSE, OUR ELECTIONS, BUT
REALLY OUR DEMOCRACY.
AND NATURALLY, IF WE'RE
PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY, WE
ALSO GOTTA MOVE AND PROTECT THE
PUBLIC SECTOR.
SO AS THESE NEW TOOLS ARE BEING
ADOPTED AND AS WE HAVE AUTOMATED
DECISION MAKING SYSTEMS, AND THE
FINAL VERSION OF THE BILL THAT
(13:51):
WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AT THE END
OF LAST YEAR IS REALLY FOCUSING
ON EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS.
SO WHEN OUR STATE AGENCIES ARE
USING THESE AUTOMATED TOOLS TO
MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT EMPLOYMENT,
IT ALSO FOCUSES ON PROTECTING
GOVERNMENT WORKERS.
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WORKED
ON WITH THE AFL CIO AND THE
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES FEDERATION
BECAUSE, AS WE'RE SEEING TODAY,
PROTECTING OUR GOVERNMENT
WORKERS IS CRITICAL TO
(14:12):
PROTECTING OUR PUBLIC SECTOR,
BUT AGAIN, PROTECTING OUR
DEMOCRACY.
>> SO WHAT AGENCIES WOULD BE
CHARGED WITH ENSURING THAT STATE
AGENCIES ARE COMPLYING WITH THE
LAW AND WHAT GUARDRAILS WILL BE
PUT IN PLACE TO MONITOR THESE
AGENCIES?
>> THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT
QUESTION.
SO WE DO HAVE A STATE AGENCY,
I.T.S., THAT'S FOCUSED ON THE
STATE'S TECHNICAL SYSTEMS AND
(14:35):
THEY DO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT
THINGS.
THEY ARE FEDERATED MODELS THAT
ARE, TEAMS EMBEDDED ACROSS OTHER
AGENCIES.
THEY ALSO, WE ALSO HAVE A CHIEF
CYBERSECURITY OFFICER.
SO THEY WORK IN TANDEM TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING OUR
STATE'S CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND THAT AGENCY, PRIOR TO US
PASSING THIS BILL, ACTUALLY PUT
OUT A GUIDANCE ON GOVERNMENT USE
(14:55):
OF AI.
AND SO A LOT OF OUR BILL WAS IN
LINE WITH THE AI ACCEPTABLE USE
POLICY BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE
THAT THE STATE'S AGENCY ON
TECHNOLOGY WOULD KNOW WHAT TOOLS
ARE BEING ADOPTED, HOW THEY'RE
BEING USED, AND HAVE A CLEAR
AUDIT AND INVENTORY OF THEM.
SO OUR BILL HAS THAT INVENTORY
AND I'M HOPING TO GET THE
(15:16):
RESULTS NEXT YEAR AND REALLY SEE
YOU KNOW HOW WIDESPREAD THESE
TOOLS ARE.
>> CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT SOME OF
YOUR OTHER ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE PRIORITIES THIS
YEAR?
>> SO WE HAVE A LOT OF AI
PRIORITIES.
I TALKED ABOUT REGULATING
ELECTIONS AND ENSURING THAT
WE'RE PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY.
I TALKED ABOUT REGULATING THE
(15:36):
PUBLIC SECTOR, PROTECTING OUR
PUBLIC SECTOR.
NATURALLY, WE'RE MOVING TO THE
PRIVATE SECTOR.
WE HAVE THE NEW YORK AI ACT,
WHICH IS AN OMNIBUS BILL SIMILAR
TO CONNECTICUT AND COLORADO'S
LEGISLATION ON THIS, WHICH HELPS
PUT IN PLACE RISK ASSESSMENTS
AND AUDITS TO MAKE SURE THAT
THESE TOOLS ARE BEING STEWARDED
WELL AND THAT THEY'RE NOT
HARMING ANY NEW YORKERS.
(15:57):
AND ON THAT SAME NOTE OUR
CHATBOT LIABILITY BILL AIMS TO
PROTECT NEW YORKERS FROM SOME OF
THE HARMS THAT WE'VE ALREADY
SEEN FROM THESE SYSTEMS.
SO JUST FOR FOLKS TO KNOW A
CHATBOT IS ESSENTIALLY A LARGE
LANGUAGE MODEL WHICH IS WHAT WE
CALL GENERATIVE AI AND THESE
LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS ARE A
NEWER TYPE OF ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
(16:17):
WE USE AI AND SOCIAL MEDIA,
WE'VE HAD IT AROUND FOR YEARS
AND YEARS, BUT GENERATIVE AI IS
A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE
HOW IT WORKS IS MORE SIMILAR TO
HOW, YOU KNOW, THE BRAIN WORKS,
BUT IT ALSO MEANS IT'S A BLACK
BOX.
SO WHEN A CHATBOT IS BEING
PROMPTED, OR YOU'RE TALKING TO
IT, FOR EXAMPLE, AND IT'S GIVING
YOU AN OUTPUT, THERE IS NO REAL
(16:40):
WAY TO EXPLAIN WHY IT'S GIVING
YOU THAT OUTPUT OR RESPONSE THAT
IT'S GIVING YOU.
WHEREAS, IN OTHER AUTOMATED
SYSTEMS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE
CODE, SEE WHAT'S GOING WRONG AND
FIX IT.
SO IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE
SYSTEMS THAT ARE BLACK BOXES, WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THE
OUTPUTS ARE HARMFUL AND WE'VE
SEEN MENTAL HEALTH BE AN ISSUE,
WE ACTUALLY HAD SOMEONE LAST
YEAR, A YOUNG MAN KILL HIMSELF
(17:02):
AS A RESULT OF INTERACTIONS WITH
A CHATBOT, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
THAT THESE COMPANIES UNDERSTAND
THE SERIOUSNESS AND
RESPONSIBILITY THEY HAVE WHEN
STEWARDING THESE TOOLS, AND WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS
SOME LIABILITY.
SO OUR CHATBOT LIABILITY BILL
DOES THIS, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES,
YOU KNOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S
OFFICE WITH TOOLS.
IT HAS A PRIVATE RIGHT OF
(17:23):
ACTION, SO IF SOMEONE'S BEEN
HARMED, THEY HAVE A WAY TO
DEFEND THEMSELVES, AND WE'RE
HOPING TO GET THIS PASSED THIS
YEAR.
>> AND BECAUSE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE IS PRETTY NEW, YOU
KNOW, SOME OF THE RISKS ARE
UNKNOWN.
SO I WANTED TO GET YOUR
UNDERSTANDING OF HOW YOU
APPROACH REGULATING SUCH A NEW
INDUSTRY WITHOUT IMPEDING ON
(17:44):
SOME OF ITS BENEFITS.
WE WANT TO SEE INNOVATION, WE
WANT TO SEE TECHNOLOGY CONTINUE
TO DEVELOP AND GROW.
SO WE DON'T REGULATE THE
TECHNOLOGY, WE REGULATE THE USE
CASES.
AND THE USE CASES, AGAIN, ARE
HOW THEY'RE BEING APPLIED IN
EVERYDAY LIFE.
AND BY DOING THAT, WE CAN MAKE
SURE THAT OUR LEGISLATION IS
FUTURE PROOF.
(18:04):
WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE ACTUAL
APPLICATIONS WHILE GIVING THE
SPACE FOR DEVELOPMENT.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CHATBOT
LIABILITY OR THE NEW YORK AI
ACT, WHAT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT
THE HIGHEST RISK USE CASES.
SO ALL OF THE RISKS ARE, YOU
KNOW, UNKNOWN AS NEW USE CASES
COME ONLINE, WE DO HAVE SOME
SEMBLANCE OF WHAT THE HIGHEST
(18:25):
RISK MIGHT BE.
AND FOR US, THAT LOOKS LIKE ANY
TIME ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS IS
MAKING A DECISION ABOUT OUR
LIVES, THAT CAN BE REALLY
CONSEQUENTIAL.
AND CONSEQUENTIAL LOOKS LIKE A
VIOLATION OF OUR CIVIL
LIBERTIES, OR SOMETHING THAT
DECIDES OUR ABILITY TO GET
HEALTH INSURANCE, OUR ABILITY TO
GET HOUSING, OUR ABILITY TO
ACCESS KEY BENEFITS THROUGH ANY
(18:48):
VARIETY OF PROVIDERS.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE HIGHEST
RISK USE CASES AND WE'RE
CONTINUING TO ENGAGE EVERYONE IN
THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE'VE
ALREADY SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
THESE TOOLS ARE LEFT ONTO THEIR
OWN DEVICES.
YOU KNOW, HEALTHCARE, FOR
EXAMPLE, HAD A TOOL THAT HAD 90%
OF THOSE DECISIONS BE OVERTURNED
BECAUSE THEY WERE INCORRECT.
(19:09):
AND THAT REALLY HURT AVERAGE
PEOPLE.
>> AND WHEN IT COMES TO
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THERE
SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF
CONVERSATION AROUND, YOU KNOW,
IT POTENTIALLY IMPEDING ON
WORKERS BEING ABLE TO WORK AND
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TAKING
JOBS AWAY FROM NEW YORKERS.
SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO NEW
YORKERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY
(19:30):
STRUGGLING WITH THAT FEAR?
>> WE HEAR THAT A LOT.
I THINK AS NEW YORKERS ARE
SEEING AI IN THE NEWS EVERY DAY
AND THEY'RE HEARING ABOUT THE
STORIES, WHETHER IT'S
UNITED HEALTHCARE OR OTHERS, YOU
KNOW, SOME OF THE NEGATIVE USE
CASES OR APPLICATIONS, THEY'RE
WONDERING WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR
THEM AND, WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR
JOB, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE
WORKFORCE?
(19:50):
WE'RE ADDRESSING THAT FIRST PART
WITH OUR LEGISLATION.
WHEN IT COMES TO WORKFORCE, WE
HAVE TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE
CREATIVE BECAUSE A SINGLE BILL
OR REGULATORY FRAMEWORK ISN'T
GOING TO FIX THAT.
AND WHILE I THINK IT'S TRUE THAT
EVERY SECTOR IS GOING TO BE
TOUCHED BY ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, WHAT DOESN'T HAVE
TO BE TRUE IS THAT WE HAVE MASS
LAYOFFS AND THAT SUDDENLY IT'S
(20:12):
DEVASTATING NOT ONLY OUR
WORKFORCE OR OUR TAX SYSTEM,
RIGHT?
WHAT WE CAN DO IS WORK TOGETHER
TO TRAIN PEOPLE AT EVERY LEVEL,
WHETHER YOU ARE IN SCHOOL, HOW
TO USE THESE AS A TOOL TO BE
MORE PRODUCTIVE, HOW TO USE AI
IN YOUR ROLE FOR THE BEST OF ITS
ABILITIES AND THE BEST OF YOUR
CAPACITY, PEOPLE WHO ARE MID
(20:33):
CAREER WHO WANT TO TRANSITION
AND BECOME MORE DIGITAL IN THEIR
SKILL SET, AND WE CERTAINLY ARE
WORKING TO SEE WHAT NEW JOBS CAN
BE CREATED.
BECAUSE IF WE AUTOMATE SOME,
THAT CAN HAPPEN WITH NEW
TECHNOLOGY, BUT THERE MAY BE NEW
OPPORTUNITIES DOWN THE LINE.
SO WE'RE LOOKING TO UPSKILL,
WE'RE LOOKING TO CREATE NEW
WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS
(20:54):
AND WE'RE CERTAINLY INVESTING AS
A STATE IN THESE THROUGH, WE
TALK ABOUT EMPIRE AI, BUT REALLY
THROUGH OUR CUNY AND SUNY
SCHOOLS.
>> AND WHAT ARE YOUR CURRENT
CONVERSATIONS LIKE WITH LABOR
ADVOCATES AND THE COMMITTEE
CHAIRS OF THE LABOR COMMITTEES
IN BOTH CHAMBERS ABOUT WAYS THAT
THE STATES CAN PROTECT NEW
YORKERS?
>> WE'RE CERTAINLY TALKING TO
(21:14):
LABOR UNIONS.
WE WORKED WITH THE AFL CIO AND
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES FEDERATION, AS
I MENTIONED, ON THE LOADING ACT
BILL.
WE'RE CONTINUING TO ENGAGE THEM
AS WE ARE INTRODUCING AND
WORKING ON THE NEW YORK AI ACT.
AND WE'RE ENGAGING A BROADER SET
OF UNIONS RIGHT NOW.
HOW UNION MEMBERS, DEPENDING ON
WHAT THE UNION MEMBERSHIP LOOKS
(21:35):
LIKE WILL BE TOUCHED BY AI, CAN
BE DIFFERENT.
AND WE'RE TALKING TO, WHETHER
IT'S TEACHERS, NURSES,
OTHERWISE, TALKING TO THOSE
UNIONS TO SEE WHAT THEIR
PRIORITIES ARE AND HOW THEY
MIGHT WANT THEIR WORKERS TO BE
UPSKILLED OR PROTECTED.
I THINK AT A BASELINE, WE NEED
TO ENSURE THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY
ISN'T IMPACTING ANY COLLECTIVE
(21:56):
BARGAINING AGREEMENTS.
THAT'S WHY WE SAW THAT LABOR
PROTECTION LANGUAGE IN THE
LOADING ACT.
BUT MOVING FORWARD, IT'S NOT
JUST ENGAGING UNIONS ON THIS,
IT'S HOW DO YOU BRING UNIONS TO
THE TABLE, PLUS THE PRIVATE
SECTOR, PLUS OUR COLLEAGUES IN
THE STATE LEGISLATURE WHO CHAIR
THE RELEVANT COMMITTEES, SO THAT
WE ACTUALLY HAVE A HOLISTIC
CONVERSATION MEETING PEOPLE
(22:17):
WHERE THEY'RE AT THAT CRAFTS A
REAL PATH FORWARD WITH THIS
TECHNOLOGY, BUT ALSO A PATH THAT
IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEW
YORKERS WHO I KNOW I'M HERE TO
SERVE AND MY COLLEAGUES ARE
CERTAINLY HERE TO SERVE AS WELL.
>>> AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THE
STATE HAS ALREADY FOCUSED ON
ELECTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
BUT WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT READ ON
THE WAY THAT ARTIFICIAL
(22:38):
INTELLIGENCE MAY IMPACT
DEMOCRACY?
>> SO I ALSO CHAIR THE ELECTIONS
COMMITTEE IN ADDITION TO THE
INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY
COMMITTEE.
AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE
HAD ACTUALLY WORKED AT THE
INTERSECTION OF BOTH LAST YEAR
WHEN WE PASSED OUR NEW YORK FAIR
ACT.
WE FOCUSED ON DEEP FAKES FIRST,
BECAUSE DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION, WE SAW MULTIPLE
(22:58):
INSTANCES OF DEEP FAKES
SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE
DONE.
I THINK THAT MISINFORMATION IS
ACTUALLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST
THREATS TO OUR DEMOCRACY.
AND, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED AI
BEING USED IN SOCIAL MEDIA.
YES, THAT IS TRUE.
AND IT'S BROUGHT OUR DEMOCRACY
TO THE BRINK UP UNTIL THIS
POINT.
BUT GENERATIVE AI POSES A THREAT
(23:19):
ON ANOTHER LEVEL THAT WE HAVEN'T
SEEN.
GENERATIVE AI CREATES CONTENT
WITH AN ACCURACY AND HUMAN LIKE
TENDENCY THAT ACTUALLY SPREADS
MISINFORMATION WITH A QUALITY WE
HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE, BUT THEN ON
A SCALE WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.
THESE MODELS ARE TRAINING SO
MUCH MORE DATA AND CAN ALSO BE
(23:40):
LEVERAGED TO PUT OUT A LOT MORE
INTO, UNFORTUNATELY, WHETHER
IT'S CREATING NEW AI SITES THAT
SPREAD MISINFORMATION, RESPONSES
ON SOCIAL MEDIA, IN SO MANY NEW
WAYS.
SO WE WANT TO CONTINUE
REGULATING, WE WANT TO CONTINUE
PROTECTING THE INTEGRITY OF OUR
ELECTIONS.
AND FINALLY, WE WANT TO CONTINUE
(24:01):
EDUCATING NEW YORKERS.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW HOW TO SPOT
A DEEP FAKE, THEY NEED TO KNOW
HOW TO SPOT A WEBSITE THAT IS
COMPLETELY FABRICATED, YOU KNOW,
NEWS SOURCES LIKE YOURS THAT ARE
VALID VERSUS NEWS SOURCES THAT
ARE SPREADING THIS INFORMATION.
AND SO WE SHOULD NOT, YOU KNOW,
WE SHOULD NOT UNDERESTIMATE HOW
(24:21):
CRITICAL THAT DIGITAL LITERACY
PIECE WILL BE, WHETHER TO OUR
ELECTIONS, BUT REALLY TO
EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE DOING
HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE.
>> AND HOW DOES NEW YORK STACK
UP AGAINST OTHER STATES IN ITS
APPROACH TO REGULATING
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE?
>> WITH REGULATING AI, I THINK
WE'VE LED IN SOME WAYS.
(24:41):
WE CERTAINLY, THROUGH THIS
COMMITTEE, HAVE INTRODUCED NEW
BILLS THAT GO FURTHER THAN WHAT
OTHER STATES HAVE DONE.
THE NEW YORK AI ACT, I THINK, IS
A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT BECAUSE
IT TAKES WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN
OTHER PLACES, THINGS LIKE
WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTIONS, BUT
IT ADDS MORE.
INSTEAD OF JUST A RISK BASED
APPROACH, WE HAVE A RIGHTS BASED
APPROACH.
WE TALK A LOT ABOUT PROTECTING
PEOPLE'S FUNDAMENTAL CIVIL
LIBERTIES.
AND THAT'S A WAY THAT WE CAN
(25:03):
LEAD HERE IN NEW YORK.
BUT THERE IS ALWAYS MORE WORK TO
DO.
AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE EXCITED TO
SEE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE TAKE
THIS ISSUE ON.
AND WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE SO MANY
OF OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE
LEGISLATURE IN BOTH THE SENATE
AND ASSEMBLY.
WE'RE EXCITED TO TALK ABOUT THIS
ISSUE, INTRODUCE NEW BILLS.
AND WE'RE HOPING AT THE END OF
THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO HAVE
(25:24):
AN AI PACKAGE THAT IS ANOTHER
SIGNAL THAT NEW YORK IS GOING TO
BE LEADING ON THIS INSTEAD OF
FALLING BEHIND WHERE WE
SOMETIMES HAVE IN THE PAST.
>> AND THAT WAS STATE SENATOR
KRISTEN GONZALEZ, CHAIR OF THE
SENATE INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY
COMMITTEE.
FOR MORE ON THOSE AI PRIORITIES,
(25:46):
YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE THAT'S
AT NYNOW.ORG.
WELL, THAT DOES IT FOR THIS
EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING AND SEE YOU
NEXT WEEK.
[ THEME MUSIC ]
>> ANNOUNCER (26:35):
FUNDING FOR NEW
YORK NOW IS PROVIDED BY WNET.
[THEME MUSIC]
(00:19):
WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION
OF NEW YORK NOW.
I'M SHANTEL DESTRA.
THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATIVE
LEADERS STILL HAVE NOT REACHED
AN AGREEMENT FOR THE FINAL
STATE BUDGET.
THE NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEEN
STALLED BECAUSE OF POLICY
DEBATES MOSTLY AROUND CHANGING
THE STATE'S DISCOVERY LAWS.
THE CHANGES PROPOSED BY GOVERNOR
KATHY HOCHUL RELATE TO HOW AND
(00:40):
WHEN PROSECUTORS MUST TURN OVER
EVIDENCE IN COURT CASES.
AT A PRESS CONFERENCE, THE
GOVERNOR SAID THAT SHE WOULD NOT
MOVE FORWARD WITH A BUDGET THAT
DOES NOT MAKE NEW YORK SAFER AND
MORE AFFORDABLE.
>> I MET WITH THE LEADERS AGAIN
TODAY.
TALKED TO THE DA’S, BROUGHT THEM UP
HERE.
THE CONSTANT COMMUNICATION, NOT
JUST AT OUR LEVEL, BUT WITH OUR
(01:01):
STAFFS, WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO
A POSITION THAT WILL SOLVE THE
PROBLEM WE HAVE, RESPOND TO WHAT
THE DA’S NEED, UNDERSTAND THE
RIGHTS OF DEFENDANTS, AND MAKE
THIS A BETTER PROCESS FOR
EVERYONE.
>> MEANWHILE, MEMBERS OF THE
LEGISLATURE INCLUDING MEMBERS OF
THE BLACK, PUERTO RICAN,
HISPANIC AND ASIAN CAUCUS ARGUE
THERE ARE THE OTHER WAYS TO
(01:22):
ADDRESS THE ISSUE WITHOUT
WEAKENING THE SYSTEM.
THIS WEEK, ASSEMBLY SPEAKER CARL
HEASTIE ALSO INTRODUCED A BILL
THAT WOULD ALLOW LAWMAKERS TO
GET PAID WHEN THE BUDGET IS
DELAYED BECAUSE OF POLICY
MEASURES INTRODUCED BY THE
EXECUTIVE CHAMBER.
IN RESPONSE TO THAT MOVE, A
SPOKEPERSON FROM THE GOVERNOR'S
(01:43):
OFFICE RESPONDED WITH A POINTED
STATEMENT.
THE STATEMENT SAID IF, QUOTE,
"THE HIGHEST PAID STATE
LAWMAKERS IN AMERICA ARE WORRIED
ABOUT THEIR PAY, THEY SHOULD
COME TO THE TABLE AND PASS A
BUDGET WITH THE GOVERNOR'S
AGENDA."
THE LATEST BUDGET EXTENDER MOVED
THE DEADLINE TO NEXT WEEK.
LAWMAKERS WERE SCHEDULED TO HAVE
(02:04):
A TWO WEEK RECESS AT THE END OF
APRIL BUT THE LACK OF A FINAL
STATE BUDGET PUTS THAT PLAN IN
LIMBO.
AND AMID ALL OF THE LATE BUDGET
DRAMA, GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS
HAVE LONG CALLED FOR MORE
TRANSPARENCY.
THE GROUPS ARE CALLING ON THE
LEADERS TO SHARE THE FINANCIAL
PLAN TABLES FOR THE STATE BUDGET
WHEN BILLS ARE BEING VOTED ON.
(02:25):
WE SAT DOWN WITH PATRICK ORECKI
OF THE CITIZENS BUDGET
COMMISSION FOR MORE ON THAT.
HERE'S THAT INTERVIEW.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
ME ON THE SHOW AGAIN, PATRICK.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> NOW, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE,
NATURALLY, I WANTED TO START
WITH TRANSPARENCY.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE
COMMISSION, ALONG WITH OTHER
GOOD GOVERNMENT GROUPS ACROSS
(02:46):
THE STATE, HAVE LONG PUSHED FOR
TRANSPARENCY IN THE STATE BUDGET
PROCESS.
SO I WANTED TO GET AN
UNDERSTANDING FROM YOU WHAT
LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY IS NEEDED
AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WILL IT TAKE
FOR THAT TO BE ACHIEVED.
>> YEAH. WELL, OUR
RECOMMENDATIONS REALLY STEM FROM
THE OVERARCHING BELIEF THAT NEW
YORKERS DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT'S
IN THE BUDGET WHEN IT'S VOTED ON
(03:06):
AND BEING PASSED.
AND FRANKLY RIGHT NOW THE NEW
YORK STATE BUDGET PROCESS LEAVES
A LOT UNTOLD WHEN THE BUDGET
BILLS ACTUALLY ARE ENACTED.
AND ONE OF OUR BIG
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD
FOR MANY YEARS AND OF COURSE
WE'RE WE'RE URGING SOME PROGRESS
THIS YEAR IS TO JUST PUBLISH
BASIC FINANCIAL PLAN TABLES WHEN
THE BUDGET BILLS ARE VOTED ON.
(03:27):
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
WHAT A BUDGET OUGHT TO LOOK
LIKE, IT'S A TABLE OF NUMBERS
THAT SHOWS WHERE YOUR MONEY'S
COMING FROM AND WHERE IT'S
GOING.
THE STATE BUDGET TAKES THE FORM
OF THOUSANDS OF PAGES OF
LEGALESE, SO THOSE BASIC TABLES
WHEN THE BILLS ARE VOTED ON
AREN'T AVAILABLE TO NEW YORKERS,
BUT THEY SHOULD BE.
>> RIGHT, AND THIS IS AN ACT
THAT THE COMMISSION HAS
PRESENTED TO THE GOVERNOR AND
(03:48):
THE STATE LEGISLATURE FOR SOME
TIME.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THE HOLDUP
IS THERE?
IS IT TRULY A BIG LIFT IN ORDER
TO RELEASE THESE FINANCIAL
TIMETABLES?
>> I THINK WITH ANYTHING,
THERE'S A TON OF MOMENTUM FOR
JUST DOING WHAT'S ALWAYS BEEN
DONE.
SO IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO UNSTICK
SOMETHING AND MAKE PROGRESS
ANEW.
SO ONE OF THE BIG PIECES OF
FEEDBACK THAT WE OFTEN GET FROM
THE STATE IS THAT THEY'RE
(04:08):
INCREDIBLY BUSY AT THIS TIME,
WHICH OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE.
THESE STAFF MEMBERS ARE WORKING
DAY AND NIGHT TO NEGOTIATE THAT
BUDGET.
LAWMAKERS ARE WORKING WELL INTO
THE NIGHT TO VOTE ON THEM.
BUT OUR RESPONSE TO THAT IS
EITHER LAWMAKERS ARE VOTING
WITHOUT THESE TYPES OF TABLES,
THESE BASIC SUMMARIES OF WHAT
THE BUDGET LOOKS LIKE, OR THEY
DO HAVE THAT AND IT'S NOT
RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC.
(04:29):
SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS
REALLY THREE TABLES THAT JUST
SHOW WHAT THE BUDGET DOES, WHAT
THE IMPACTS ARE OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE OF YEARS AS WELL.
>> AND FROM YOUR PURVIEW, DO NEW
YORKERS UNDERSTAND THE
IMPLICATIONS OF NOT HAVING THESE
FINANCIAL TIMETABLES RELEASED?
>> THEY PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THE
WAY THEY WOULD SEE IT IS
PROBABLY BY WATCHING YOUR SHOW
AND OTHER PROGRAMS OR READING IT
(04:50):
IN THE NEWS WHERE THE DETAILS
AREN'T JUST REALLY AVAILABLE.
AND THEY MIGHT NOT, YOU KNOW, IF
THEY READ A STORY, SAY, "WELL,
IS THE BUDGET BALANCED?
WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE GOING
INTO FUTURE YEARS, I CARE ABOUT
THE FUTURE AS WELL."
AND THOSE DETAILS JUST AREN'T
AVAILABLE.
SO IT'S HARD FOR US TO TALK
ABOUT WHEN THE BUDGET COMES OUT
WHAT WE DON'T KNOW, WHICH IS
THOSE TYPES OF IMPACTS, WHICH WE
(05:12):
SHOULD KNOW.
>> AND OF COURSE, AT THE TIME
THAT THE EXECUTIVE CHAMBER AND
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ARE
NEGOTIATING THE STATE BUDGET,
THERE IS THE BACKDROP OF
POTENTIAL FEDERAL CUTS COMING
DOWN FROM WASHINGTON.
I KNOW THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAVE
INDICATED THE POSSIBILITY OF
CALLING A SPECIAL SESSION
SOMETIME IN THE SUMMER OR LATER
(05:32):
IN THE YEAR TO ADDRESS THESE
FEDERAL CUTS.
YOU KNOW, SO HOW SHOULD THEY BE
LOOKING TO ADDRESS IT AND
CONSIDER IT DURING THIS BUDGET
SEASON?
>> YEAH, IT'S A REALLY STICKY
POSITION TO BE IN, FRANKLY,
BECAUSE WE ARE QUITE CERTAIN
THAT SOME SIGNIFICANT CUTS WILL
COME FROM WASHINGTON AT SOME
POINT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL
MONTHS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WILL
BE.
(05:52):
WE DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THEY WILL
BE.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE
STATE CAN'T DO SOME PREPARATION
RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE
WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF BUDGET
MAKING AT THIS TIME.
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE
STATE HAS BEEN TO AT LEAST SET
ASIDE ABOUT TWO BILLION DOLLARS
FROM CURRENT CASH, JUST TO SAY
IF SOMETHING COMES UP IN THE
MIDDLE OF THE YEAR FROM
WASHINGTON AND TAKES IMMEDIATE
EFFECT, YOU HAVE A BIT OF A
CUSHION TO DEAL WITH THE
(06:13):
IMMEDIATE YOU KNOW, RESPONSE TO
ANY FEDERAL CUT.
THEN WHEN YOU RECONVENE TO DO
THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR OR WHENEVER
YOU NEED TO HAVE THOSE LONGER
TERM DISCUSSIONS, YOU ALSO
SHOULD HAVE A PRIORITY LIST OF
WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO BACKFILL
LOST FEDERAL MONEY, WHERE YOU
CAN FIND SOME SAVINGS, WHERE YOU
CAN'T REPLACE FEDERAL DOLLARS
AND REALLY HAVE A MULTI YEAR
(06:34):
VIEW OF WHAT COULD COME FROM
WASHINGTON, BECAUSE IT'S NOT
GOING TO BE A ONE AND DONE
THING.
WHATEVER CUTS DO COME FROM DC
ARE GOING TO BE RECURRING AND
INDEFINITE.
>> AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE
COMMISSION HAS, YOU KNOW, QUITE
A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
BUDGET PROCESS AND FOR DEALING
WITH TRANSPARENCY, DEALING WITH
THESE FEDERAL CUTS.
HOW WOULD YOU SAY YOUR
COMMUNICATION IS WITH THE BUDGET
(06:55):
OFFICE AND WITH THE EXECUTIVE
CHAMBER?
HAVE THEY BEEN RECEPTIVE TO
THESE RECOMMENDATIONS?
>> YEAH, AND NOT ONLY WITH THE
EXECUTIVE, BUT WITH THE
LEGISLATURE TOO.
SO, OF COURSE, OUR
RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS COMING
ENACTED BUDGET, WHENEVER THAT
DOES COME, IS TO HAVE FINANCIAL
PLAN TABLES WITH THOSE BILLS.
WE ALSO RECOMMEND THE SAME THING
WHEN THE LEGISLATURE INTRODUCES
THEIR OWN COUNTERPROPOSALS, AND
(07:16):
WE HAVE SEEN SOME PROGRESS FROM
BOTH THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE
TO THEIR CREDIT ON PUBLISHING
THINGS.
OF COURSE WE HAVE FURTHER
IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'D LOVE TO
SEE THEM MAKE, BUT THERE HAS
BEEN PROGRESS TOWARD THAT.
SO WE HOPE THAT THIS TYPE OF
SIMPLE URGING OF TRANSPARENCY
AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE BUDGET
PROCESS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL
BE, YOU KNOW, EMBRACED GOING
FORWARD TOO.
>> AND AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS, YOU
(07:37):
KNOW, IN THE BUDGET OFFICE AND
YOU SPECIFICALLY FOCUS ON THINGS
LIKE MEDICAID AND PUBLIC HEALTH
PROGRAMS, HOW SHOULD THE STATE
BE LOOKING TO PREPARE FOR
POTENTIAL FEDERAL CUTS AS IT
RELATES TO MEDICAID WHEN WE KNOW
IT TAKES UP SO MUCH OF THE STATE
BUDGET?
>> YEAH, IT'S REALLY AN
EXERCISE, I THINK, IN
PRIORITIZING EVERYTHING IN THE
(07:57):
BUDGET BECAUSE IT'S ALL PART OF
THE SAME PIE.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT WHERE
SAVINGS MIGHT BE POSSIBLE OR
WHERE THE BIG NEW SPENDING IS,
IT'S OFTEN IN BIG BUCKETS LIKE
MEDICAID AND SCHOOL AID, WHICH
ALONE ARE MORE THAN HALF OF THE
STATE'S SPENDING PLAN.
SO YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO LOOK
AT THOSE THINGS.
BUT I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH THE
FEDERAL IMPLICATIONS IN MIND,
IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO TAKE STOCK
OF WHAT THE STATE'S PRIORITIES
(08:18):
ARE, WHERE STATE DOLLARS HAVE
THE MOST IMPACT AND MAKE SURE
THAT THOSE ARE THE THINGS YOU'RE
PROTECTING WHENEVER THINGS COME
FROM WASHINGTON.
>> WHEN I THINK OF THE BUDGET
THIS YEAR, A BIG THING FOR ME IS
TRULY AFFORDABILITY.
I KNOW THAT'S BEEN A FOCUS FOR
BOTH THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATURE FOR SOME TIME THIS
YEAR.
DOES THE COMMISSION HAVE ANY
POSITION ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS
(08:40):
THAT EITHER THE GOVERNOR OR
LEGISLATURE HAVE PUT FORTH IN
TERMS OF MAKING NEW YORK TRULY
AFFORDABLE?
>> YEAH, BOTTOM LINE, THE
EMPHASIS ON AFFORDABILITY IS A
GREAT THING TO SEE.
I THINK IT'S WHAT VOTERS ARE
DEMANDING AND IT'S GOOD TO SEE
ELECTED LEADERS REALLY TAKE THAT
ON AS A PRIORITY.
YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE
BUDGET PROPOSALS, THERE ARE KIND
(09:00):
OF THREE THINGS THAT JUMP OUT ON
THE AFFORDABILITY FRONT.
IT'S THE INFLATION REFUND CHECKS
THAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED.
IT IS THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT
AND THE CHILD TAX CREDIT
ENHANCEMENT.
SO THOSE THREE THINGS ARE ALL
SORT OF ATTEMPTING TO MOVE IN
THAT DIRECTION, AND I THINK TO A
DEGREE THAT THE CHILD TAX CREDIT
AND THE MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUT GET
(09:20):
AT SOME OF THOSE ISSUES ON THE
FRINGES AT LEAST, OUR POSITION
IS THAT THE INFLATION REFUND
CHECKS, WHICH IS $3 BILLION TO
BE SENT OUT TO NEW YORKERS IN
INCREMENTS OF EITHER $300 OR
$500, ARE NOT THE BEST WAY TO
USE $3 BILLION.
THAT'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY.
SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT RECEIVE
THOSE CHECKS WOULD ABSOLUTELY
BENEFIT FROM THEM.
MANY WOULD NOT.
(09:41):
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION THERE HAS
BEEN TO STEP BACK FROM THAT
PROPOSAL AND INSTEAD THINK OF
WHERE $3 BILLION IS GOING TO
HAVE THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST
IMPACT, NOT THE BROADEST IMPACT,
BUT THE GREATEST IMPACT.
>> AND WE ARE BEYOND THE APRIL
1ST DEADLINE FOR THE STATE
BUDGET.
THE GOVERNOR HAS INDICATED THAT
SHE'S GOING TO WAIT AS LONG AS
(10:02):
POSSIBLE TO MAKE SURE THAT SOME
OF HER PRIORITIES MAKE IT INTO
THE BUDGET.
SHE'S WILLING TO TAKE AS LONG AS
IT TAKES.
AND THIS IS THE FOURTH
CONSECUTIVE STATE BUDGET THAT
HAS BEEN LATE.
SO I WANTED TO GET YOUR
PERSPECTIVE ON SOME OF THE
IMPLICATIONS THAT COME WITH A
STATE BUDGET BEING LATE.
DO YOU THINK THAT IT EVEN
MATTERS TO NEW YORKERS AT THIS
(10:22):
POINT IN TIME, THAT THE BUDGET
IS LATE?
YEAH, I THINK WHEN WE'RE IN THIS
TERRITORY WHERE IT'S A COUPLE
DAYS OR A COUPLE WEEKS LATE,
THAT DOESN'T HAVE MASSIVE
IMPLICATIONS RIGHT AWAY.
YOU WOULD RATHER SEE A GOOD,
SLIGHTLY LATE BUDGET THAN A
HURRIED, BAD BUDGET THAT'S ON
TIME.
WHEN YOU START TO SEE REAL WORLD
IMPLICATIONS OF A LATE BUDGET IS
(10:44):
WHEN SCHOOLS ARE TRYING TO CRAFT
THEIR OWN BUDGETS FOR THE COMING
YEAR AND SENDING THEIR BUDGETS
TO VOTE TO THEIR SCHOOL
DISTRICTS.
AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF
NEW YORK WHERE ABOUT HALF OF THE
STATE'S POPULATION IS AND MANY
MORE NEW YORKERS WORK, THEIR
FISCAL YEAR OPERATES FROM JULY
TO JUNE.
SO THEY RELY A LOT ON WHAT THE
(11:05):
STATE DOES AS WELL.
SO AS YOU START TO GET LATER AND
INTO THE LATE SPRING OR EVEN
EARLY SUMMER, YOU START TO HAVE
BIG IMPLICATIONS FOR LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS TOO.
>> AND LOOKING AHEAD AT BUDGETS
TO COME, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
BIGGEST POLICY ITEMS OR THINGS
THAT THE GOVERNOR AND
LEGISLATURE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND
WHEN THEY'RE PREPARING FOR
BUDGETS?
>> YEAH, I THINK TRANSPARENCY
(11:27):
AND ACCOUNTABILITY IS OF COURSE
SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY CBC BUT
MANY OTHER GOVERNMENT WATCHDOGS
ARE GOING TO PUSH.
SO YOU KNOW MAKING THE BUDGET
PROCESS BETTER BY ANY MEANS IS
IMPORTANT INCLUDING THE
FINANCIAL PLAN TABLES LIKE WE
TALKED ABOUT.
I THINK HAVING A LONG RUN VIEW
IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TOO, YOU
KNOW.
THERE'S AN IMPETUS, ESPECIALLY
(11:47):
WHEN PEOPLE ARE UP FOR
REELECTION EVERY TWO YEARS, TO
DELIVER SOMETHING NEW, TO BE
ABLE TO HAND OUT CHECKS EVERY
YEAR OR TWO.
BUT HAVING A LONG RUN VIEW AND
MAKING SURE THAT NEW YORK IS
AFFORDABLE AND ECONOMICALLY
COMPETITIVE IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT
IN THE BUDGET MAKING PROCESS AS
WELL.
>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S
ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TODAY,
BUT WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH
(12:07):
US.
> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> AND WE WERE SPEAKING WITH
PATRICK ORECKI, DIRECTOR OF
STATE STUDIES WITH THE CITIZENS
BUDGET COMMISSION.
NOW TURNING TO ANOTHER IMPORTANT
TOPIC.
IN THIS NEXT SEGMENT, WE SAT
DOWN WITH STATE SENATOR KRISTEN
GONZALEZ TO UNPACK THE
PRIORITIES AROUND ARTIFICIAL
(12:28):
INTELLIGENCE AT THE STATE
CAPITOL.
AFTER PASSING LEGISLATION TO
LIMIT THE RELIANCE ON AI BY
STATE AGENCIES, THE SENATOR IS
HOPING TO BUILD ON THAT WORK
BEFORE THE END OF SESSION.
HERE'S THAT CONVERSATION.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US TODAY, SENATOR.
>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.
(12:48):
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> LAST YEAR, YOU SPONSORED
LEGISLATION THAT WAS SIGNED AND
PASSED INTO LAW KNOWN AS THE
LOADING ACT.
NOW THIS LAW WOULD ESSENTIALLY
REGULATE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
SO THAT STATE AGENCIES WOULDN'T
BE RELYING ON IT TO MAKE
DECISIONS.
SO CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE
IMPETUS OF THIS LEGISLATION AND
HOW IT WORKS LOGISTICALLY?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
(13:09):
SO I CHAIRED THE SENATE INTERNET
TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE AND I'M
ALSO A FORMER TECH WORKER.
SO I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW OUR
WORLD IS GETTING INCREASINGLY
DIGITAL AND TAKING OVER THE
COMMITTEE WITH THE NATIONAL
CONVERSATION ON ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, IT WAS A NATURAL
FIT TO BE ABLE TO START
REGULATING IT AT THE STATE
LEVEL.
THE FIRST THING WE DID WAS WE
PASSED A BILL CALLED THE NEW
(13:30):
YORK FAIR ACT, WHICH REGULATED
DEEP FAKES IN ELECTIONS.
AND THAT WAS TO PROTECT, OF
COURSE, OUR ELECTIONS, BUT
REALLY OUR DEMOCRACY.
AND NATURALLY, IF WE'RE
PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY, WE
ALSO GOTTA MOVE AND PROTECT THE
PUBLIC SECTOR.
SO AS THESE NEW TOOLS ARE BEING
ADOPTED AND AS WE HAVE AUTOMATED
DECISION MAKING SYSTEMS, AND THE
FINAL VERSION OF THE BILL THAT
(13:51):
WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AT THE END
OF LAST YEAR IS REALLY FOCUSING
ON EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS.
SO WHEN OUR STATE AGENCIES ARE
USING THESE AUTOMATED TOOLS TO
MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT EMPLOYMENT,
IT ALSO FOCUSES ON PROTECTING
GOVERNMENT WORKERS.
AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WORKED
ON WITH THE AFL CIO AND THE
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES FEDERATION
BECAUSE, AS WE'RE SEEING TODAY,
PROTECTING OUR GOVERNMENT
WORKERS IS CRITICAL TO
(14:12):
PROTECTING OUR PUBLIC SECTOR,
BUT AGAIN, PROTECTING OUR
DEMOCRACY.
>> SO WHAT AGENCIES WOULD BE
CHARGED WITH ENSURING THAT STATE
AGENCIES ARE COMPLYING WITH THE
LAW AND WHAT GUARDRAILS WILL BE
PUT IN PLACE TO MONITOR THESE
AGENCIES?
>> THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT
QUESTION.
SO WE DO HAVE A STATE AGENCY,
I.T.S., THAT'S FOCUSED ON THE
STATE'S TECHNICAL SYSTEMS AND
(14:35):
THEY DO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT
THINGS.
THEY ARE FEDERATED MODELS THAT
ARE, TEAMS EMBEDDED ACROSS OTHER
AGENCIES.
THEY ALSO, WE ALSO HAVE A CHIEF
CYBERSECURITY OFFICER.
SO THEY WORK IN TANDEM TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING OUR
STATE'S CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND THAT AGENCY, PRIOR TO US
PASSING THIS BILL, ACTUALLY PUT
OUT A GUIDANCE ON GOVERNMENT USE
(14:55):
OF AI.
AND SO A LOT OF OUR BILL WAS IN
LINE WITH THE AI ACCEPTABLE USE
POLICY BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE
THAT THE STATE'S AGENCY ON
TECHNOLOGY WOULD KNOW WHAT TOOLS
ARE BEING ADOPTED, HOW THEY'RE
BEING USED, AND HAVE A CLEAR
AUDIT AND INVENTORY OF THEM.
SO OUR BILL HAS THAT INVENTORY
AND I'M HOPING TO GET THE
(15:16):
RESULTS NEXT YEAR AND REALLY SEE
YOU KNOW HOW WIDESPREAD THESE
TOOLS ARE.
>> CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT SOME OF
YOUR OTHER ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE PRIORITIES THIS
YEAR?
>> SO WE HAVE A LOT OF AI
PRIORITIES.
I TALKED ABOUT REGULATING
ELECTIONS AND ENSURING THAT
WE'RE PROTECTING OUR DEMOCRACY.
I TALKED ABOUT REGULATING THE
(15:36):
PUBLIC SECTOR, PROTECTING OUR
PUBLIC SECTOR.
NATURALLY, WE'RE MOVING TO THE
PRIVATE SECTOR.
WE HAVE THE NEW YORK AI ACT,
WHICH IS AN OMNIBUS BILL SIMILAR
TO CONNECTICUT AND COLORADO'S
LEGISLATION ON THIS, WHICH HELPS
PUT IN PLACE RISK ASSESSMENTS
AND AUDITS TO MAKE SURE THAT
THESE TOOLS ARE BEING STEWARDED
WELL AND THAT THEY'RE NOT
HARMING ANY NEW YORKERS.
(15:57):
AND ON THAT SAME NOTE OUR
CHATBOT LIABILITY BILL AIMS TO
PROTECT NEW YORKERS FROM SOME OF
THE HARMS THAT WE'VE ALREADY
SEEN FROM THESE SYSTEMS.
SO JUST FOR FOLKS TO KNOW A
CHATBOT IS ESSENTIALLY A LARGE
LANGUAGE MODEL WHICH IS WHAT WE
CALL GENERATIVE AI AND THESE
LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS ARE A
NEWER TYPE OF ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
(16:17):
WE USE AI AND SOCIAL MEDIA,
WE'VE HAD IT AROUND FOR YEARS
AND YEARS, BUT GENERATIVE AI IS
A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE
HOW IT WORKS IS MORE SIMILAR TO
HOW, YOU KNOW, THE BRAIN WORKS,
BUT IT ALSO MEANS IT'S A BLACK
BOX.
SO WHEN A CHATBOT IS BEING
PROMPTED, OR YOU'RE TALKING TO
IT, FOR EXAMPLE, AND IT'S GIVING
YOU AN OUTPUT, THERE IS NO REAL
(16:40):
WAY TO EXPLAIN WHY IT'S GIVING
YOU THAT OUTPUT OR RESPONSE THAT
IT'S GIVING YOU.
WHEREAS, IN OTHER AUTOMATED
SYSTEMS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE
CODE, SEE WHAT'S GOING WRONG AND
FIX IT.
SO IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE
SYSTEMS THAT ARE BLACK BOXES, WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THE
OUTPUTS ARE HARMFUL AND WE'VE
SEEN MENTAL HEALTH BE AN ISSUE,
WE ACTUALLY HAD SOMEONE LAST
YEAR, A YOUNG MAN KILL HIMSELF
(17:02):
AS A RESULT OF INTERACTIONS WITH
A CHATBOT, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
THAT THESE COMPANIES UNDERSTAND
THE SERIOUSNESS AND
RESPONSIBILITY THEY HAVE WHEN
STEWARDING THESE TOOLS, AND WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS
SOME LIABILITY.
SO OUR CHATBOT LIABILITY BILL
DOES THIS, AND IT ALSO PROVIDES,
YOU KNOW, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S
OFFICE WITH TOOLS.
IT HAS A PRIVATE RIGHT OF
(17:23):
ACTION, SO IF SOMEONE'S BEEN
HARMED, THEY HAVE A WAY TO
DEFEND THEMSELVES, AND WE'RE
HOPING TO GET THIS PASSED THIS
YEAR.
>> AND BECAUSE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE IS PRETTY NEW, YOU
KNOW, SOME OF THE RISKS ARE
UNKNOWN.
SO I WANTED TO GET YOUR
UNDERSTANDING OF HOW YOU
APPROACH REGULATING SUCH A NEW
INDUSTRY WITHOUT IMPEDING ON
(17:44):
SOME OF ITS BENEFITS.
WE WANT TO SEE INNOVATION, WE
WANT TO SEE TECHNOLOGY CONTINUE
TO DEVELOP AND GROW.
SO WE DON'T REGULATE THE
TECHNOLOGY, WE REGULATE THE USE
CASES.
AND THE USE CASES, AGAIN, ARE
HOW THEY'RE BEING APPLIED IN
EVERYDAY LIFE.
AND BY DOING THAT, WE CAN MAKE
SURE THAT OUR LEGISLATION IS
FUTURE PROOF.
(18:04):
WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE ACTUAL
APPLICATIONS WHILE GIVING THE
SPACE FOR DEVELOPMENT.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CHATBOT
LIABILITY OR THE NEW YORK AI
ACT, WHAT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT
THE HIGHEST RISK USE CASES.
SO ALL OF THE RISKS ARE, YOU
KNOW, UNKNOWN AS NEW USE CASES
COME ONLINE, WE DO HAVE SOME
SEMBLANCE OF WHAT THE HIGHEST
(18:25):
RISK MIGHT BE.
AND FOR US, THAT LOOKS LIKE ANY
TIME ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS IS
MAKING A DECISION ABOUT OUR
LIVES, THAT CAN BE REALLY
CONSEQUENTIAL.
AND CONSEQUENTIAL LOOKS LIKE A
VIOLATION OF OUR CIVIL
LIBERTIES, OR SOMETHING THAT
DECIDES OUR ABILITY TO GET
HEALTH INSURANCE, OUR ABILITY TO
GET HOUSING, OUR ABILITY TO
ACCESS KEY BENEFITS THROUGH ANY
(18:48):
VARIETY OF PROVIDERS.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE HIGHEST
RISK USE CASES AND WE'RE
CONTINUING TO ENGAGE EVERYONE IN
THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE'VE
ALREADY SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
THESE TOOLS ARE LEFT ONTO THEIR
OWN DEVICES.
YOU KNOW, HEALTHCARE, FOR
EXAMPLE, HAD A TOOL THAT HAD 90%
OF THOSE DECISIONS BE OVERTURNED
BECAUSE THEY WERE INCORRECT.
(19:09):
AND THAT REALLY HURT AVERAGE
PEOPLE.
>> AND WHEN IT COMES TO
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, THERE
SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF
CONVERSATION AROUND, YOU KNOW,
IT POTENTIALLY IMPEDING ON
WORKERS BEING ABLE TO WORK AND
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TAKING
JOBS AWAY FROM NEW YORKERS.
SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO NEW
YORKERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY
(19:30):
STRUGGLING WITH THAT FEAR?
>> WE HEAR THAT A LOT.
I THINK AS NEW YORKERS ARE
SEEING AI IN THE NEWS EVERY DAY
AND THEY'RE HEARING ABOUT THE
STORIES, WHETHER IT'S
UNITED HEALTHCARE OR OTHERS, YOU
KNOW, SOME OF THE NEGATIVE USE
CASES OR APPLICATIONS, THEY'RE
WONDERING WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR
THEM AND, WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR
JOB, WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR THE
WORKFORCE?
(19:50):
WE'RE ADDRESSING THAT FIRST PART
WITH OUR LEGISLATION.
WHEN IT COMES TO WORKFORCE, WE
HAVE TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE
CREATIVE BECAUSE A SINGLE BILL
OR REGULATORY FRAMEWORK ISN'T
GOING TO FIX THAT.
AND WHILE I THINK IT'S TRUE THAT
EVERY SECTOR IS GOING TO BE
TOUCHED BY ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, WHAT DOESN'T HAVE
TO BE TRUE IS THAT WE HAVE MASS
LAYOFFS AND THAT SUDDENLY IT'S
(20:12):
DEVASTATING NOT ONLY OUR
WORKFORCE OR OUR TAX SYSTEM,
RIGHT?
WHAT WE CAN DO IS WORK TOGETHER
TO TRAIN PEOPLE AT EVERY LEVEL,
WHETHER YOU ARE IN SCHOOL, HOW
TO USE THESE AS A TOOL TO BE
MORE PRODUCTIVE, HOW TO USE AI
IN YOUR ROLE FOR THE BEST OF ITS
ABILITIES AND THE BEST OF YOUR
CAPACITY, PEOPLE WHO ARE MID
(20:33):
CAREER WHO WANT TO TRANSITION
AND BECOME MORE DIGITAL IN THEIR
SKILL SET, AND WE CERTAINLY ARE
WORKING TO SEE WHAT NEW JOBS CAN
BE CREATED.
BECAUSE IF WE AUTOMATE SOME,
THAT CAN HAPPEN WITH NEW
TECHNOLOGY, BUT THERE MAY BE NEW
OPPORTUNITIES DOWN THE LINE.
SO WE'RE LOOKING TO UPSKILL,
WE'RE LOOKING TO CREATE NEW
WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS
(20:54):
AND WE'RE CERTAINLY INVESTING AS
A STATE IN THESE THROUGH, WE
TALK ABOUT EMPIRE AI, BUT REALLY
THROUGH OUR CUNY AND SUNY
SCHOOLS.
>> AND WHAT ARE YOUR CURRENT
CONVERSATIONS LIKE WITH LABOR
ADVOCATES AND THE COMMITTEE
CHAIRS OF THE LABOR COMMITTEES
IN BOTH CHAMBERS ABOUT WAYS THAT
THE STATES CAN PROTECT NEW
YORKERS?
>> WE'RE CERTAINLY TALKING TO
(21:14):
LABOR UNIONS.
WE WORKED WITH THE AFL CIO AND
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES FEDERATION, AS
I MENTIONED, ON THE LOADING ACT
BILL.
WE'RE CONTINUING TO ENGAGE THEM
AS WE ARE INTRODUCING AND
WORKING ON THE NEW YORK AI ACT.
AND WE'RE ENGAGING A BROADER SET
OF UNIONS RIGHT NOW.
HOW UNION MEMBERS, DEPENDING ON
WHAT THE UNION MEMBERSHIP LOOKS
(21:35):
LIKE WILL BE TOUCHED BY AI, CAN
BE DIFFERENT.
AND WE'RE TALKING TO, WHETHER
IT'S TEACHERS, NURSES,
OTHERWISE, TALKING TO THOSE
UNIONS TO SEE WHAT THEIR
PRIORITIES ARE AND HOW THEY
MIGHT WANT THEIR WORKERS TO BE
UPSKILLED OR PROTECTED.
I THINK AT A BASELINE, WE NEED
TO ENSURE THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY
ISN'T IMPACTING ANY COLLECTIVE
(21:56):
BARGAINING AGREEMENTS.
THAT'S WHY WE SAW THAT LABOR
PROTECTION LANGUAGE IN THE
LOADING ACT.
BUT MOVING FORWARD, IT'S NOT
JUST ENGAGING UNIONS ON THIS,
IT'S HOW DO YOU BRING UNIONS TO
THE TABLE, PLUS THE PRIVATE
SECTOR, PLUS OUR COLLEAGUES IN
THE STATE LEGISLATURE WHO CHAIR
THE RELEVANT COMMITTEES, SO THAT
WE ACTUALLY HAVE A HOLISTIC
CONVERSATION MEETING PEOPLE
(22:17):
WHERE THEY'RE AT THAT CRAFTS A
REAL PATH FORWARD WITH THIS
TECHNOLOGY, BUT ALSO A PATH THAT
IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NEW
YORKERS WHO I KNOW I'M HERE TO
SERVE AND MY COLLEAGUES ARE
CERTAINLY HERE TO SERVE AS WELL.
>>> AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THE
STATE HAS ALREADY FOCUSED ON
ELECTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
BUT WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT READ ON
THE WAY THAT ARTIFICIAL
(22:38):
INTELLIGENCE MAY IMPACT
DEMOCRACY?
>> SO I ALSO CHAIR THE ELECTIONS
COMMITTEE IN ADDITION TO THE
INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY
COMMITTEE.
AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE
HAD ACTUALLY WORKED AT THE
INTERSECTION OF BOTH LAST YEAR
WHEN WE PASSED OUR NEW YORK FAIR
ACT.
WE FOCUSED ON DEEP FAKES FIRST,
BECAUSE DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION, WE SAW MULTIPLE
(22:58):
INSTANCES OF DEEP FAKES
SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE
DONE.
I THINK THAT MISINFORMATION IS
ACTUALLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST
THREATS TO OUR DEMOCRACY.
AND, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED AI
BEING USED IN SOCIAL MEDIA.
YES, THAT IS TRUE.
AND IT'S BROUGHT OUR DEMOCRACY
TO THE BRINK UP UNTIL THIS
POINT.
BUT GENERATIVE AI POSES A THREAT
(23:19):
ON ANOTHER LEVEL THAT WE HAVEN'T
SEEN.
GENERATIVE AI CREATES CONTENT
WITH AN ACCURACY AND HUMAN LIKE
TENDENCY THAT ACTUALLY SPREADS
MISINFORMATION WITH A QUALITY WE
HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE, BUT THEN ON
A SCALE WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.
THESE MODELS ARE TRAINING SO
MUCH MORE DATA AND CAN ALSO BE
(23:40):
LEVERAGED TO PUT OUT A LOT MORE
INTO, UNFORTUNATELY, WHETHER
IT'S CREATING NEW AI SITES THAT
SPREAD MISINFORMATION, RESPONSES
ON SOCIAL MEDIA, IN SO MANY NEW
WAYS.
SO WE WANT TO CONTINUE
REGULATING, WE WANT TO CONTINUE
PROTECTING THE INTEGRITY OF OUR
ELECTIONS.
AND FINALLY, WE WANT TO CONTINUE
(24:01):
EDUCATING NEW YORKERS.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW HOW TO SPOT
A DEEP FAKE, THEY NEED TO KNOW
HOW TO SPOT A WEBSITE THAT IS
COMPLETELY FABRICATED, YOU KNOW,
NEWS SOURCES LIKE YOURS THAT ARE
VALID VERSUS NEWS SOURCES THAT
ARE SPREADING THIS INFORMATION.
AND SO WE SHOULD NOT, YOU KNOW,
WE SHOULD NOT UNDERESTIMATE HOW
(24:21):
CRITICAL THAT DIGITAL LITERACY
PIECE WILL BE, WHETHER TO OUR
ELECTIONS, BUT REALLY TO
EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE DOING
HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE.
>> AND HOW DOES NEW YORK STACK
UP AGAINST OTHER STATES IN ITS
APPROACH TO REGULATING
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE?
>> WITH REGULATING AI, I THINK
WE'VE LED IN SOME WAYS.
(24:41):
WE CERTAINLY, THROUGH THIS
COMMITTEE, HAVE INTRODUCED NEW
BILLS THAT GO FURTHER THAN WHAT
OTHER STATES HAVE DONE.
THE NEW YORK AI ACT, I THINK, IS
A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT BECAUSE
IT TAKES WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN
OTHER PLACES, THINGS LIKE
WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTIONS, BUT
IT ADDS MORE.
INSTEAD OF JUST A RISK BASED
APPROACH, WE HAVE A RIGHTS BASED
APPROACH.
WE TALK A LOT ABOUT PROTECTING
PEOPLE'S FUNDAMENTAL CIVIL
LIBERTIES.
AND THAT'S A WAY THAT WE CAN
(25:03):
LEAD HERE IN NEW YORK.
BUT THERE IS ALWAYS MORE WORK TO
DO.
AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE EXCITED TO
SEE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE TAKE
THIS ISSUE ON.
AND WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE SO MANY
OF OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE
LEGISLATURE IN BOTH THE SENATE
AND ASSEMBLY.
WE'RE EXCITED TO TALK ABOUT THIS
ISSUE, INTRODUCE NEW BILLS.
AND WE'RE HOPING AT THE END OF
THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION TO HAVE
(25:24):
AN AI PACKAGE THAT IS ANOTHER
SIGNAL THAT NEW YORK IS GOING TO
BE LEADING ON THIS INSTEAD OF
FALLING BEHIND WHERE WE
SOMETIMES HAVE IN THE PAST.
>> AND THAT WAS STATE SENATOR
KRISTEN GONZALEZ, CHAIR OF THE
SENATE INTERNET AND TECHNOLOGY
COMMITTEE.
FOR MORE ON THOSE AI PRIORITIES,
(25:46):
YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE THAT'S
AT NYNOW.ORG.
WELL, THAT DOES IT FOR THIS
EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.
THANK YOU FOR TUNING AND SEE YOU
NEXT WEEK.
[ THEME MUSIC ]
>> ANNOUNCER (26:35):
FUNDING FOR NEW
YORK NOW IS PROVIDED BY WNET.
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