August 5, 2025 • 24 mins
In this powerful and heartfelt episode, Dr. Kat sits down with Howard Baskin, treasurer and board member of Big Cat Rescue, to explore the past, present, and future of one of the world’s most influential big cat sanctuaries. Howard shares the personal journey that led him to become a passionate advocate for captive wild cats and gives listeners a behind-the-scenes look at Big Cat Rescue’s decades-long mission to end private ownership and cub petting.
The conversation highlights the monumental passage of the Big Cat Public Safety Act in 2022 and the organization’s subsequent decision to relocate its remaining cats to a larger sanctuary. Howard talks candidly about what’s next for the organization as it transitions from direct rescue to national advocacy and sanctuary support. We explore some of the hundreds of areas of impact that Big Cat Rescue supports now, making the world a better place for wild cats and people.
Listeners will leave inspired, informed, and empowered to take action for wild cats—and people.
EPISODE NOTES: Saving Wild Cats: A Conversation with Howard Baskin
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/nine-lives-with-dr-kat-cat-podcasts-for-cat-lovers-pet-life-radio-original--6667999/support.
The conversation highlights the monumental passage of the Big Cat Public Safety Act in 2022 and the organization’s subsequent decision to relocate its remaining cats to a larger sanctuary. Howard talks candidly about what’s next for the organization as it transitions from direct rescue to national advocacy and sanctuary support. We explore some of the hundreds of areas of impact that Big Cat Rescue supports now, making the world a better place for wild cats and people.
Listeners will leave inspired, informed, and empowered to take action for wild cats—and people.
EPISODE NOTES: Saving Wild Cats: A Conversation with Howard Baskin
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/nine-lives-with-dr-kat-cat-podcasts-for-cat-lovers-pet-life-radio-original--6667999/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey there, cat lovers, Welcome to nine Lives with Doctor Cat.
I'm doctor Katherine Krem your host. I'm a veterinarian animal
advocate and your inside scoop on all things feeline. Today
we're diving into the world of cats just a little
bit more wild. My guest is a passionate voice for wildcats,
(00:43):
the treasurer and board member of Big Cat Rescue, Howard Baskin.
We're going to dive into Howard's mission and learn more
about him after a quick break, so we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You know the expression cats have nine lives, Well, what
if you can give them one more? But give them ten?
Movement is on a mission to help give cats an
extra life. How with spee and neoter, spain or nootering
your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and
it helps control free rolling cat populations too. Learn more
(01:20):
about the benefits of spee and neoter and meet Scooter,
the neutered cat at Give them ten dot Org. That's
give them ten dot org.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Let's talk past.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Let's talk about life radio Headline Radio, pet Live Radio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome back to nine Lives with doctor Cat on Cat
Life Radio. Coward, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I am so happy that you were able to take
some time to talk to me about the wilder side
of the cat world.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Happy to do.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I wouldn't get started a little bit with something about you.
What first drew you into the world of animal welfare
and big cats? Were you always an animal person?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well?
Speaker 6 (02:14):
I had always had dogs or cats in latter years
mostly cats, domestic cats, of course, But I was not
involved in animal advocacy until I met Carol, and then
she took me over to the sanctuary and I made
the mistake of saying, well, maybe I could help, and
that led to the last twenty some odd years of helping.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So Carol is your wife, so that makes perfect sense.
That's an interesting way to get into it. I always
find it interesting to see how people got there calling
because I was kind of born knowing I wanted to
be a veterinarian. But my son tells me that that's
really strange. Most people have an evolution or a journey.
So what is it about big cats in particular that
(02:58):
have really captured your heart?
Speaker 6 (03:00):
Well, you can't be around them, which we were for
decades at the sanctuary without falling in love with them,
and when you hear the stories of how they are
mistreated in captivity, I mean, if you care at all
about animals, it's just painful to hear these stories. And
we not only heard them, we lived them. We would
have to go to these places and see these horrible
(03:21):
conditions that we rescued cats from. So trying to put
a stop to that became a very personal passion for me.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So for those of my listeners who don't know about it,
what exactly is Big Cat Rescue and what has been
its mission so far?
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Well, there's been a huge change in the last couple
of years. For decades, since the early nineties, Big Cat
Rescue was a sanctuary that would take in rescue these abused,
abandoned big cats, orphaned big cats, and give them a
permanent home at the sanctuary. But we also were very
(04:00):
very active in what we referred to as advocacy in
trying to put an end to the problem or end
to the abuse. And so for the last decade or so,
we worked very hard to put an ormous amount of
effort and resources into leading the effort to get a
federal bill passed, which is an incredibly hard thing to do.
(04:22):
And the bill of the law now is called the
Big Cat Public Safety Act, and it really eliminated, in
our view, ninety percent of the mistreatment of big cats
by doing two things. It ended the cub petting, where
these operators like Joe Exotic or doc Antle would constantly
breed cubs in order to charge people to pet them
(04:44):
and take photos with them. And you could only use
the cubs for a couple months before they were big
enough to take a kid's finger off, and then they
would discard them if they lived. And then the second
part of the problem is they would end up in
people's backyards. People would see Freed and Roy with a
tiger on their sofa and think, oh, I can do that.
I want to do that, and you know that doesn't
(05:06):
work out. And then the cats end up in these
horrible tiny cages owned by people who don't know how
to take care of them, not getting proper medical care
because it's expensive. And so what the bill did was
end the cup heading and phase out this private ownership
bite people who don't have a USDA license as exhibitors,
you know, like a zoo or a sanctuary. And so
(05:29):
once that happened, our population of cats had declined. Over
the years, the cats tended to live longer at our
sanctuary than most places, but you know, eventually they pass away.
And you know, back in let me say twenty ten,
even if there was a tiger that needed to be rescued,
(05:50):
there would the email would go out to the you
know eight or ten, you know, good big Cat sanctuary
saying does anybody have his face? Because everybody was full.
But what's happened over time, as some of these cuppetits
have gone out of business, and as we've been more
successful with the advocacy, gradually there was more and more
space available. And so we put our energy into the
(06:14):
federal bill. And we're basically only rescuing cats if there
wasn't another home for them. So our population declined. So
the bill passed in December of twenty twenty two, became law,
and we spent twenty twenty three working with a wonderful
sanctuary in Arkansas called Turpentine Creek to build cages. They
(06:37):
had much more land than we did. We were now
surrounded by development. In our sixty plus acres, they have
over four hundred acres, and so we worked with them
to fund building much larger enclosures for our cats there
and moving the cats there, and they're very similar to us,
both in philosophy and in veterinary care, so we're thrilled
(07:00):
with that. And then we spent twenty twenty four selling
the sanctuary property and so now we have done something
all these years that no other sanctuary had been doing,
which was taking a part of our revenue kind of
like tithing and using it to fund projects around the
world that were designed to keep the wildcats from going extinct,
(07:23):
with particular focus on the smaller wildcats that didn't get
of a lot of tension, didn't get a lot of funding,
although we did work you do some work with the
larger bitcats, but we had a limited budget for that
because most of our resources were devoted to running the sanctuary.
So now we've invested the proceeds of the sale and
(07:44):
the earnings from that along with donations, we will be
able to do much more funding of these projects around
the world, and there's just a huge need for that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I am very excited because you sent me a link
to your website and I saw the huge map of
the world basically and all the little bullet points and
pins dropped everywhere that you guys have made a difference,
and I just love it. I mean, we couldn't go
possibly through all of that right now, but that is
(08:17):
just amazing. It's such a meaningful evolution for you, and
you've made your work continue to ripple outward. So you've
got some things on there about specific cats that are
becoming extinct in other parts of the world. Can you
give us any updates on that. Are things going well
with your advocacy.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Yes, and there are some success stories, but there are
other places. About half of the small cats, well, let
me start with there are forty one species of cat,
and that changes over time as the scientists make decisions
at the IUCN what's called the IUCN about what is
a species. But of those forty one, seven that everybody
(08:56):
knows about are generally considered the big cats, you know,
lion's tiegers, jaguars, clouded leopards, leopards, and then there are
two cheetahs and cougars that make up the seven that
most people consider to be the big cats, and everybody
knows about them. These are you know, these are species
that are called iconic and majestic, and they truly are.
(09:18):
But they're What people don't realize is there are thirty
four species of smaller cat. You know, a few that
people will have heard of, like a bobcat or ocelot,
but many that you know, I had certainly never heard
of before I got involved here. And those cats in
their environment play the same role as predators that the
(09:38):
tigers and lions play in their environment, where they basically
control the populations that are their prey and keep a
balance in those ecosystems. And if those cats disappear, the
whole ecosystem declines. And we've seen this, like there's an
area in India where that used to have cheetahs and
(10:03):
when the cheetahs became extinct there, the whole area, you know,
changed and became wasteland. And we helped fund a project
to reintroduce cheatahs in that area. So that was one
of our bigger cat projects. So you know, about half
of these thirty four species are either categorized as threatened
(10:24):
or endangered, so you know, there really is and the
nature of the threats, you know, there's a couple of
particular kinds of threats. Do you want me to talk
a little bit about that. I feel like I'm going
on not and not letting you ask your products.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well, you know, I really do want my listeners to
understand what the threats are because a lot of it
is people. I mean, all of it is really people.
But there are different ways. Yeah, absolutely, please go on.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Well, one of the areas of threat is what's referred
to is as human predator conflict. You know, if you're
in South America in these rural areas, people are very poor.
If they have a dozen chickens, well to them, that
is enormous. And if one of the small cats steals
one of the chickens, well that's like somebody coming to
(11:14):
your house and stealing your car without insurance. And so
reducing the amount of conflict and changing the attitudes and
mentalities of the people to be supportive of the cats
and having them understand the role they play in their
environment there is critical. So how do we do that?
(11:35):
One way is if we provide the materials which these
folks can't afford. They are handy, they can build what
are called predator proof chicken coops that the small cats
can't get into. And at the same time, the folks
around the world who do this work. And these are
just incredibly dedicated people who mostly get no compensation at all,
(12:00):
spend all of their free time support themselves in other
ways and volunteer, and so they will educate them. And
what they'll do is we'll we'll build the coops and
then put up cameras and show these farmers that the
cat is still around, but it's not taking their chickens
and they can live with it comfortably. And in some cases,
(12:22):
in one case, one of our people reported they went
back to check on things and the farmers there that
actually posted pictures on the wall of the cats because
they were so proud that they were helping support them.
Another way we do that is sometimes we can provide
incentives to the people, the financial incentives that help them
(12:47):
avoid conflict with the cats. So, you know, among those
things are like providing beehives and having them be honey producers.
But you know they can't afford to buy those couple
of beehives, but for you know, modest amounts of money,
we can do that. So you know, those are some
of the ways we reduce that. You know, we had
kind of a fun story. We sent Jamie Carroll's daughter
(13:11):
and Victor, you know, to Mongolia to look at a project.
We were looking at funding with palace cats. And palace
cats are just adorable and really unique because in all
the other species, when the mothers raise the young, at
some point the young can take care of themselves and
they go off and find their own territories. Well, the
(13:32):
palace cats live in these little rock structures. They find
crevices and places in the rocks for their dens, and
when the young are big enough to take care of themselves,
the mothers leave and go find a new territory. Well,
the problem is if you do successfully increase the population,
(13:53):
then they end up heading out into areas where they
have to go long distances in open ground to find
an area that has the kind of rock structures that
they need, and when they do that, they're exposed to
birds of prey and other predators. And so when Jamie
was there, she talked to the people who were doing
(14:14):
the work and they said, well, look, you know, you
got a whole bunch of rocks here. Could we build
more of these structures that they now only find when
they're natural And they said, well, yeah, but you know,
the building X number of them would probably cost about
five thousand dollars to you know, get the pay people
and get the equipment. But it would also have the
(14:35):
benefit of any time we can provide income to the
people in the town that helps support their attitude to
want to support the cats. So we funded the five
thousand dollars and they built a bunch of these out
of the rocks and then put up cameras and could
film both the Palace cats and others using the rock. So,
(14:56):
you know, that was a wonderfully successful and kind of
un example. The other issue, particularly in South America, is disease.
In South America, there are an enormous number of what
are called free roaming domestic cats and dogs. You know,
some of them may be pets, they may belong to someone.
(15:16):
Others are feral, but they're all roaming free. And if
they they get the carnate what is it called the
carnivore disease, that's fatal. The domestic animals wander off if
they have contact with the wildcats. Wildcats catch it and
die a horrible death of slowly wasting away, being unable
to hunt, you know, starving to death. So by active
(15:41):
spain neuter and vaccination programs, we can dramatically reduce the
amount of these wildcats that catch this disease and die
from it. So those are you know, two of the
examples of how we deal with you know, the interaction
between the local communities or two of the major threats
to many of the small cats.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, and now you're speaking my language, because I definitely
believe in Spain and neutering federal populations of cats and dogs.
So I love that. So I think that people see
some of this stuff on social media and of course
kind of like smut cells, and they want to assume
that it's circuses and it's competting exclusively. But actually I
(16:21):
think what you're saying is some of the people are
just trying to live, and it's just the confrontation between
the people trying to live and the animals trying to live.
And that's where you come in. Am I getting the
idea correctly?
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Well exactly And by the way, it's carnivorre distemper disease.
But yes, and you see this in India, you know,
with the tigers when people are gradually encroaching onto the
territory as the population expands and have more conflict with
the tigers. So tigers hunt at night and don't like light.
(16:55):
So we have funded basically street lights along an area
that keep the tigers from you know, coming in attacking people.
We had another situation India where there's an area that
used to have pretty good water holes and they were
drying up, you know, maybe climate change, and that was
(17:16):
causing the tigers to move closer and closer into the
villages looking for water. So we work there with a
wonderful group called the Corbett Foundation, and we ended up
funding They designed basically a well, they'd you know, pound
a pipe into the ground and put up a pump
and put up four solar panels to run the pump
(17:37):
and recreate the water hole. And this we keep the
tigers from encroaching on the people. But you know, you
can understand for these people that if if they feel threatened,
or if they're livestock or threatened, you know, that is
just a huge deal for them.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that we in this country, where we have
so much, we kind of forget that and we're really
really quick to judge those people. But I think you're right,
that's an excellent point. What if it was your child
that was in danger, you know, and so I think
that these ripples that you're doing are the way to
make a huge, huge difference. So I just really appreciate
(18:17):
you taking the time to talk to us about it,
and I would love it if you could share with
my listeners how to help. I mean, there are ways
to find out more and to be a part of
this amazing creative mission to reduce the confrontation between cats,
wildcats and humans. So how can they find you?
Speaker 6 (18:37):
They can go to Big Cat Rescue dot org. And
of course, like any nonprofit, we would welcome donations, and
you know, because the investment, you know, sometimes people ask, well,
how much of my donation goes to the you know,
directly to the animals versus too overhead And you know,
any organization in order to run properly, you have to
have some overhead. But in our case now, the investment earnings,
(19:00):
the interest off the proceeds from the sale of the
property more than cover our modest overhead. And so you know,
every penny that someone donates goes to support the cats.
And occasionally we have a fundraising event where you know,
one of our donors will offer matching funds, like right
now we're approaching what's called give day in early May,
(19:22):
and so we're just putting out our newsletter and we
have twenty one thousand dollars in matching funds, so if
someone donates a dollar, it gets mashed a dollar, so
it doubles their impact. So you know, that's the best
way they can help with this kind of work. There's
still work to be done, you know, domestically with abuse.
You know, there are still some odds and ends of circuses.
(19:42):
You see these little circuses that show up at state fairs,
and so you know, not attending those, complaining to the
state fair and say we don't want to see that.
That's mistreating animals and educating other people about that, or
you know, there are still roadside zoos where the conditions
are horrible and you know, complaining about those places, reporting
(20:07):
them to USDA. If you see things that you know
you don't think are proper, are ways people could help
that cost them nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
There are also some things that I see as a
small animal veterinarian, with people breeding animals, with wildcats and things,
and that's another topic probably for another show. So I
would love for you to come back and us to
talk a little bit more because there is so much
to this, So thank you for being here, and thank
you for dedicating your life to give these animals the
(20:38):
dignity that they deserve, and also for helping the people,
because helping the people and making it important to them
that they need to get along with the animals and
that we all need to live here together is kind
of kind of where it's at.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
You're absolutely right, and that's become increasingly the philosophy of
this work is to help the people and the animals.
They both benefit. And real quick, you're apps. I should
have mentioned that domestically, you know, not getting one of
these small exotic cats as a pet like a servile
or or these hybrids is a way.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
To help, you know, and they just they may not
make good pets, even if they've been crossed with domestic cats.
I see a lot of surrender of these cats. Probably
it's probably a little bit of a controversial statement for
me to make, but I see a lot of these
cats surrendered because they don't really make great house pets
in my experience.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Well that's putting it very tactfully. They almost never make
good pets, and people abandon them, and it's horrible for
the animal and not a good experience for the people.
And these savannah cats, which are a blend of a
servile and a domestic cat. People get told while looking
cat with a domestic personality, well, they breed them for
five generations to even get them close to having a
(21:54):
domestic personality, and all of those along the way get
you know, what happens to them? They're not so where
do they go? So anytime you see a savannah cat,
you can be sure that dozens of cats died in
order to make that one. That's what's called an f five.
But you have these breeders lying to people about it
(22:15):
and showing video, you know, the show a video of
a two year old. But we would have people bring
them to the sanctuary when they're young, like up to
two years old. They're manageable. And this woman, I remember
one who showed up with all these scars on her arms.
She tried until the cat was five and finally gave up.
Because they're wild animals.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I actually have seen them in my practice as well.
I remember one fairly elderly lady that adopted one, and
this kitten was hanging from her drapes and like tearing
them from top to bottom. And I thought oh this
is this is the worst match I've ever seen. And
she ended up surrendering the kitten and I do not
(22:55):
know what happened to it, so that makes me really sad.
So I feel like education and the things that you're doing,
and maybe the things that I'm doing can make a difference.
I really hope.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
So well, thank you for what you're doing. It was
a pleasure being on your show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well. Thanks again, and to everyone listening, remember compassionate advocacy
don't stop with our own pets. The choices we make
and the causes we support can help make a difference
and help make the world a better place for animals
and for people. So thank you again, Howard, and thank
you for all that you do. And thanks to my listeners.
(23:30):
If you like this show, certainly listen, follow share, and
go check out Bigcat Rescue dot org. And this has
been another episode in Nine Lives with Doctor Kat. I'll
see you next time. Go out and have a perfect day.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on pet
Life Radio dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
The p
This is pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey there, cat lovers, Welcome to nine Lives with Doctor Cat.
I'm doctor Katherine Krem your host. I'm a veterinarian animal
advocate and your inside scoop on all things feeline. Today
we're diving into the world of cats just a little
bit more wild. My guest is a passionate voice for wildcats,
(00:43):
the treasurer and board member of Big Cat Rescue, Howard Baskin.
We're going to dive into Howard's mission and learn more
about him after a quick break, so we'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
You know the expression cats have nine lives, Well, what
if you can give them one more? But give them ten?
Movement is on a mission to help give cats an
extra life. How with spee and neoter, spain or nootering
your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and
it helps control free rolling cat populations too. Learn more
(01:20):
about the benefits of spee and neoter and meet Scooter,
the neutered cat at Give them ten dot Org. That's
give them ten dot org.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Let's talk past.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Let's talk about life radio Headline Radio, pet Live Radio
dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome back to nine Lives with doctor Cat on Cat
Life Radio. Coward, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 6 (01:56):
Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I am so happy that you were able to take
some time to talk to me about the wilder side
of the cat world.
Speaker 6 (02:03):
Happy to do.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I wouldn't get started a little bit with something about you.
What first drew you into the world of animal welfare
and big cats? Were you always an animal person?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Well?
Speaker 6 (02:14):
I had always had dogs or cats in latter years
mostly cats, domestic cats, of course, But I was not
involved in animal advocacy until I met Carol, and then
she took me over to the sanctuary and I made
the mistake of saying, well, maybe I could help, and
that led to the last twenty some odd years of helping.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So Carol is your wife, so that makes perfect sense.
That's an interesting way to get into it. I always
find it interesting to see how people got there calling
because I was kind of born knowing I wanted to
be a veterinarian. But my son tells me that that's
really strange. Most people have an evolution or a journey.
So what is it about big cats in particular that
(02:58):
have really captured your heart?
Speaker 6 (03:00):
Well, you can't be around them, which we were for
decades at the sanctuary without falling in love with them,
and when you hear the stories of how they are
mistreated in captivity, I mean, if you care at all
about animals, it's just painful to hear these stories. And
we not only heard them, we lived them. We would
have to go to these places and see these horrible
(03:21):
conditions that we rescued cats from. So trying to put
a stop to that became a very personal passion for me.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So for those of my listeners who don't know about it,
what exactly is Big Cat Rescue and what has been
its mission so far?
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Well, there's been a huge change in the last couple
of years. For decades, since the early nineties, Big Cat
Rescue was a sanctuary that would take in rescue these abused,
abandoned big cats, orphaned big cats, and give them a
permanent home at the sanctuary. But we also were very
(04:00):
very active in what we referred to as advocacy in
trying to put an end to the problem or end
to the abuse. And so for the last decade or so,
we worked very hard to put an ormous amount of
effort and resources into leading the effort to get a
federal bill passed, which is an incredibly hard thing to do.
(04:22):
And the bill of the law now is called the
Big Cat Public Safety Act, and it really eliminated, in
our view, ninety percent of the mistreatment of big cats
by doing two things. It ended the cub petting, where
these operators like Joe Exotic or doc Antle would constantly
breed cubs in order to charge people to pet them
(04:44):
and take photos with them. And you could only use
the cubs for a couple months before they were big
enough to take a kid's finger off, and then they
would discard them if they lived. And then the second
part of the problem is they would end up in
people's backyards. People would see Freed and Roy with a
tiger on their sofa and think, oh, I can do that.
I want to do that, and you know that doesn't
(05:06):
work out. And then the cats end up in these
horrible tiny cages owned by people who don't know how
to take care of them, not getting proper medical care
because it's expensive. And so what the bill did was
end the cup heading and phase out this private ownership
bite people who don't have a USDA license as exhibitors,
you know, like a zoo or a sanctuary. And so
(05:29):
once that happened, our population of cats had declined. Over
the years, the cats tended to live longer at our
sanctuary than most places, but you know, eventually they pass away.
And you know, back in let me say twenty ten,
even if there was a tiger that needed to be rescued,
(05:50):
there would the email would go out to the you
know eight or ten, you know, good big Cat sanctuary
saying does anybody have his face? Because everybody was full.
But what's happened over time, as some of these cuppetits
have gone out of business, and as we've been more
successful with the advocacy, gradually there was more and more
space available. And so we put our energy into the
(06:14):
federal bill. And we're basically only rescuing cats if there
wasn't another home for them. So our population declined. So
the bill passed in December of twenty twenty two, became law,
and we spent twenty twenty three working with a wonderful
sanctuary in Arkansas called Turpentine Creek to build cages. They
(06:37):
had much more land than we did. We were now
surrounded by development. In our sixty plus acres, they have
over four hundred acres, and so we worked with them
to fund building much larger enclosures for our cats there
and moving the cats there, and they're very similar to us,
both in philosophy and in veterinary care, so we're thrilled
(07:00):
with that. And then we spent twenty twenty four selling
the sanctuary property and so now we have done something
all these years that no other sanctuary had been doing,
which was taking a part of our revenue kind of
like tithing and using it to fund projects around the
world that were designed to keep the wildcats from going extinct,
(07:23):
with particular focus on the smaller wildcats that didn't get
of a lot of tension, didn't get a lot of funding,
although we did work you do some work with the
larger bitcats, but we had a limited budget for that
because most of our resources were devoted to running the sanctuary.
So now we've invested the proceeds of the sale and
(07:44):
the earnings from that along with donations, we will be
able to do much more funding of these projects around
the world, and there's just a huge need for that.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I am very excited because you sent me a link
to your website and I saw the huge map of
the world basically and all the little bullet points and
pins dropped everywhere that you guys have made a difference,
and I just love it. I mean, we couldn't go
possibly through all of that right now, but that is
(08:17):
just amazing. It's such a meaningful evolution for you, and
you've made your work continue to ripple outward. So you've
got some things on there about specific cats that are
becoming extinct in other parts of the world. Can you
give us any updates on that. Are things going well
with your advocacy.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
Yes, and there are some success stories, but there are
other places. About half of the small cats, well, let
me start with there are forty one species of cat,
and that changes over time as the scientists make decisions
at the IUCN what's called the IUCN about what is
a species. But of those forty one, seven that everybody
(08:56):
knows about are generally considered the big cats, you know,
lion's tiegers, jaguars, clouded leopards, leopards, and then there are
two cheetahs and cougars that make up the seven that
most people consider to be the big cats, and everybody
knows about them. These are you know, these are species
that are called iconic and majestic, and they truly are.
(09:18):
But they're What people don't realize is there are thirty
four species of smaller cat. You know, a few that
people will have heard of, like a bobcat or ocelot,
but many that you know, I had certainly never heard
of before I got involved here. And those cats in
their environment play the same role as predators that the
(09:38):
tigers and lions play in their environment, where they basically
control the populations that are their prey and keep a
balance in those ecosystems. And if those cats disappear, the
whole ecosystem declines. And we've seen this, like there's an
area in India where that used to have cheetahs and
(10:03):
when the cheetahs became extinct there, the whole area, you know,
changed and became wasteland. And we helped fund a project
to reintroduce cheatahs in that area. So that was one
of our bigger cat projects. So you know, about half
of these thirty four species are either categorized as threatened
(10:24):
or endangered, so you know, there really is and the
nature of the threats, you know, there's a couple of
particular kinds of threats. Do you want me to talk
a little bit about that. I feel like I'm going
on not and not letting you ask your products.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Well, you know, I really do want my listeners to
understand what the threats are because a lot of it
is people. I mean, all of it is really people.
But there are different ways. Yeah, absolutely, please go on.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Well, one of the areas of threat is what's referred
to is as human predator conflict. You know, if you're
in South America in these rural areas, people are very poor.
If they have a dozen chickens, well to them, that
is enormous. And if one of the small cats steals
one of the chickens, well that's like somebody coming to
(11:14):
your house and stealing your car without insurance. And so
reducing the amount of conflict and changing the attitudes and
mentalities of the people to be supportive of the cats
and having them understand the role they play in their
environment there is critical. So how do we do that?
(11:35):
One way is if we provide the materials which these
folks can't afford. They are handy, they can build what
are called predator proof chicken coops that the small cats
can't get into. And at the same time, the folks
around the world who do this work. And these are
just incredibly dedicated people who mostly get no compensation at all,
(12:00):
spend all of their free time support themselves in other
ways and volunteer, and so they will educate them. And
what they'll do is we'll we'll build the coops and
then put up cameras and show these farmers that the
cat is still around, but it's not taking their chickens
and they can live with it comfortably. And in some cases,
(12:22):
in one case, one of our people reported they went
back to check on things and the farmers there that
actually posted pictures on the wall of the cats because
they were so proud that they were helping support them.
Another way we do that is sometimes we can provide
incentives to the people, the financial incentives that help them
(12:47):
avoid conflict with the cats. So, you know, among those
things are like providing beehives and having them be honey producers.
But you know they can't afford to buy those couple
of beehives, but for you know, modest amounts of money,
we can do that. So you know, those are some
of the ways we reduce that. You know, we had
kind of a fun story. We sent Jamie Carroll's daughter
(13:11):
and Victor, you know, to Mongolia to look at a project.
We were looking at funding with palace cats. And palace
cats are just adorable and really unique because in all
the other species, when the mothers raise the young, at
some point the young can take care of themselves and
they go off and find their own territories. Well, the
(13:32):
palace cats live in these little rock structures. They find
crevices and places in the rocks for their dens, and
when the young are big enough to take care of themselves,
the mothers leave and go find a new territory. Well,
the problem is if you do successfully increase the population,
(13:53):
then they end up heading out into areas where they
have to go long distances in open ground to find
an area that has the kind of rock structures that
they need, and when they do that, they're exposed to
birds of prey and other predators. And so when Jamie
was there, she talked to the people who were doing
(14:14):
the work and they said, well, look, you know, you
got a whole bunch of rocks here. Could we build
more of these structures that they now only find when
they're natural And they said, well, yeah, but you know,
the building X number of them would probably cost about
five thousand dollars to you know, get the pay people
and get the equipment. But it would also have the
(14:35):
benefit of any time we can provide income to the
people in the town that helps support their attitude to
want to support the cats. So we funded the five
thousand dollars and they built a bunch of these out
of the rocks and then put up cameras and could
film both the Palace cats and others using the rock. So,
(14:56):
you know, that was a wonderfully successful and kind of
un example. The other issue, particularly in South America, is disease.
In South America, there are an enormous number of what
are called free roaming domestic cats and dogs. You know,
some of them may be pets, they may belong to someone.
(15:16):
Others are feral, but they're all roaming free. And if
they they get the carnate what is it called the
carnivore disease, that's fatal. The domestic animals wander off if
they have contact with the wildcats. Wildcats catch it and
die a horrible death of slowly wasting away, being unable
to hunt, you know, starving to death. So by active
(15:41):
spain neuter and vaccination programs, we can dramatically reduce the
amount of these wildcats that catch this disease and die
from it. So those are you know, two of the
examples of how we deal with you know, the interaction
between the local communities or two of the major threats
to many of the small cats.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Well, and now you're speaking my language, because I definitely
believe in Spain and neutering federal populations of cats and dogs.
So I love that. So I think that people see
some of this stuff on social media and of course
kind of like smut cells, and they want to assume
that it's circuses and it's competting exclusively. But actually I
(16:21):
think what you're saying is some of the people are
just trying to live, and it's just the confrontation between
the people trying to live and the animals trying to live.
And that's where you come in. Am I getting the
idea correctly?
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Well exactly And by the way, it's carnivorre distemper disease.
But yes, and you see this in India, you know,
with the tigers when people are gradually encroaching onto the
territory as the population expands and have more conflict with
the tigers. So tigers hunt at night and don't like light.
(16:55):
So we have funded basically street lights along an area
that keep the tigers from you know, coming in attacking people.
We had another situation India where there's an area that
used to have pretty good water holes and they were
drying up, you know, maybe climate change, and that was
(17:16):
causing the tigers to move closer and closer into the
villages looking for water. So we work there with a
wonderful group called the Corbett Foundation, and we ended up
funding They designed basically a well, they'd you know, pound
a pipe into the ground and put up a pump
and put up four solar panels to run the pump
(17:37):
and recreate the water hole. And this we keep the
tigers from encroaching on the people. But you know, you
can understand for these people that if if they feel threatened,
or if they're livestock or threatened, you know, that is
just a huge deal for them.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think that we in this country, where we have
so much, we kind of forget that and we're really
really quick to judge those people. But I think you're right,
that's an excellent point. What if it was your child
that was in danger, you know, and so I think
that these ripples that you're doing are the way to
make a huge, huge difference. So I just really appreciate
(18:17):
you taking the time to talk to us about it,
and I would love it if you could share with
my listeners how to help. I mean, there are ways
to find out more and to be a part of
this amazing creative mission to reduce the confrontation between cats,
wildcats and humans. So how can they find you?
Speaker 6 (18:37):
They can go to Big Cat Rescue dot org. And
of course, like any nonprofit, we would welcome donations, and
you know, because the investment, you know, sometimes people ask, well,
how much of my donation goes to the you know,
directly to the animals versus too overhead And you know,
any organization in order to run properly, you have to
have some overhead. But in our case now, the investment earnings,
(19:00):
the interest off the proceeds from the sale of the
property more than cover our modest overhead. And so you know,
every penny that someone donates goes to support the cats.
And occasionally we have a fundraising event where you know,
one of our donors will offer matching funds, like right
now we're approaching what's called give day in early May,
(19:22):
and so we're just putting out our newsletter and we
have twenty one thousand dollars in matching funds, so if
someone donates a dollar, it gets mashed a dollar, so
it doubles their impact. So you know, that's the best
way they can help with this kind of work. There's
still work to be done, you know, domestically with abuse.
You know, there are still some odds and ends of circuses.
(19:42):
You see these little circuses that show up at state fairs,
and so you know, not attending those, complaining to the
state fair and say we don't want to see that.
That's mistreating animals and educating other people about that, or
you know, there are still roadside zoos where the conditions
are horrible and you know, complaining about those places, reporting
(20:07):
them to USDA. If you see things that you know
you don't think are proper, are ways people could help
that cost them nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
There are also some things that I see as a
small animal veterinarian, with people breeding animals, with wildcats and things,
and that's another topic probably for another show. So I
would love for you to come back and us to
talk a little bit more because there is so much
to this, So thank you for being here, and thank
you for dedicating your life to give these animals the
(20:38):
dignity that they deserve, and also for helping the people,
because helping the people and making it important to them
that they need to get along with the animals and
that we all need to live here together is kind
of kind of where it's at.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
You're absolutely right, and that's become increasingly the philosophy of
this work is to help the people and the animals.
They both benefit. And real quick, you're apps. I should
have mentioned that domestically, you know, not getting one of
these small exotic cats as a pet like a servile
or or these hybrids is a way.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
To help, you know, and they just they may not
make good pets, even if they've been crossed with domestic cats.
I see a lot of surrender of these cats. Probably
it's probably a little bit of a controversial statement for
me to make, but I see a lot of these
cats surrendered because they don't really make great house pets
in my experience.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Well that's putting it very tactfully. They almost never make
good pets, and people abandon them, and it's horrible for
the animal and not a good experience for the people.
And these savannah cats, which are a blend of a
servile and a domestic cat. People get told while looking
cat with a domestic personality, well, they breed them for
five generations to even get them close to having a
(21:54):
domestic personality, and all of those along the way get
you know, what happens to them? They're not so where
do they go? So anytime you see a savannah cat,
you can be sure that dozens of cats died in
order to make that one. That's what's called an f five.
But you have these breeders lying to people about it
(22:15):
and showing video, you know, the show a video of
a two year old. But we would have people bring
them to the sanctuary when they're young, like up to
two years old. They're manageable. And this woman, I remember
one who showed up with all these scars on her arms.
She tried until the cat was five and finally gave up.
Because they're wild animals.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I actually have seen them in my practice as well.
I remember one fairly elderly lady that adopted one, and
this kitten was hanging from her drapes and like tearing
them from top to bottom. And I thought oh this
is this is the worst match I've ever seen. And
she ended up surrendering the kitten and I do not
(22:55):
know what happened to it, so that makes me really sad.
So I feel like education and the things that you're doing,
and maybe the things that I'm doing can make a difference.
I really hope.
Speaker 6 (23:05):
So well, thank you for what you're doing. It was
a pleasure being on your show. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well. Thanks again, and to everyone listening, remember compassionate advocacy
don't stop with our own pets. The choices we make
and the causes we support can help make a difference
and help make the world a better place for animals
and for people. So thank you again, Howard, and thank
you for all that you do. And thanks to my listeners.
(23:30):
If you like this show, certainly listen, follow share, and
go check out Bigcat Rescue dot org. And this has
been another episode in Nine Lives with Doctor Kat. I'll
see you next time. Go out and have a perfect day.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on pet
Life Radio dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
The p
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