September 9, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode of the One CA Podcast, host Danny Joseph sits down with Matt Moran, a wildlife biologist from Alaska and newly minted 38G Natural Resources Specialist in the Army Reserve Civil Affairs community. From tracking polar bear hunting in the Aleutian Islands to advising on wildlife management in deployed regions, Matt shares how his civilian expertise translates into strategic value for U.S. foreign engagement.
They dive into the role of natural resources in stability operations, the challenges of conservation in conflict zones, and how Civil Affairs professionals operate in the “last three feet” of diplomacy. Matt’s story highlights the growing importance of specialized knowledge in shaping mission success and building trust with partner nations.
Whether you're a soldier, scientist, strategist, or simply curious about the intersection of ecology and foreign policy, this episode offers a fresh perspective on the evolving mission of Civil Affairs.
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One CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association andbrings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership.
We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "lastthree feet" of U.S. foreign relations.
To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com, or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website atwww.civilaffairsassoc.org
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Feedspot, the podcast industry ranking system, rated One CAPodcast as one of the top 10 shows on foreign policy. Check it out at:
https://podcast.feedspot.com/foreign_policy_podcasts/
---
I want to give Special Thanks to my niece Kim, a fantastic R&B vocalist, for sharing a sample of her song "No Blues" from the Album Nzuri Soul. Check it out at: https://youtu.be/02Im-C7b1q8?si=n2LdtnAtcZATkhPU
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🎙️ Podcast & Civil Affairs Focus
#OneCAPodcast #CivilAffairs #MilitaryDiplomacy #LastThreeFeet #FeedspotTop10
🌍 Foreign Policy & Stability Operations
#ForeignPolicy #StabilityOperations #ForeignEngagement #ConflictZones
🦅 Natural Resources & Wildlife Expertise
#38GSpecialist #NaturalResources #WildlifeBiology #AlaskaWildlife #PolarBearConservation #EcologyAndSecurity
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello everybody, My name is Daniel Zaya Joseph.
I am your host for today's one CA podcast episode and I'm
really excited to bring Matt Moran.
He is an incredibly smart guy. He.
Has three master's degrees, 6 bachelor's degrees.
Matt, I'm stoked to have you on here.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience.
Great to be here today, Dan. Thank you for the offer.
(00:24):
And one thing that inspired me to offer you an interview spot
here on this podcast is the factthat you are a 38G.
Now, I didn't really know what that was going in.
I heard about it, but it was kind of esoteric in nature for
me to understand and sounded like subject matter expert, a
consultant, somebody the government trusts to give really
key advice. But I didn't really know what it
(00:45):
was. And then I met you.
And then all the instructors were shocked to see you.
I mean, you were a Unicorn. They were like.
I heard there's a 38G in this room.
Who's the 30? 8G And you'd be kind of quietly
back there just like, yeah, that's that's me.
And I mean they were literally entering the room.
To be like. Who's the 38G?
I I've never met one in real life, so tell me about the magic
(01:06):
of that acronym. Yeah, 38G is a very unique
program the Army started back in2017.
Basically the Army was looking at.
We have a bunch of civil affairsofficers that are extremely
capable, our wildlife biologistsby trade, but I mean, we can
deal with anything. Natural resources, sometimes it
overlaps. Sometimes you may have a water
specialist, but you also need a natural resources specialist.
(01:28):
Water specialist may be looking very specifically at drinking
water. The natural resource specialist
may be looking at what effects is it having to fish aquatic
species. Even things like that's
basically the Army identified the shortage and where they
needed reach back and so they want to recruit a bunch of
people were looking at about 3, mid three hundreds to have that
(01:49):
reach back to be able to supportthe civil affairs community.
So there's only about 300 peoplein the world that have your
specialty. As of right now, it was a little
about, it was close to 350. The Army did just put a pause,
kind of a change in directions. The biggest thing was trying to
bring us on and make sure we hadall the Army requirements
courses, get through those and then start focusing on
(02:10):
developing the program. Right now, we're kind of in that
development stage, plus with some new executive orders, a
little bit of restructuring to kind of stream on and make this
better. Yeah, and there's a lot to look
into here. But speaking as a prior combat
engineer, I was trained by the Army to understand whatever we
blow up in a combat zone, we tend to fix.
We want to repair it for the local populace.
(02:32):
We blow up an airfield. If we strike a water facility
plant or an electrical generation plant, we'll repair
it. Once that battle is done, once
we get the opposing forces wherewe need them to be for us to
take over, then for the local populace, we'll go back and
reconstitute what was damaged and destroyed, which I found to
be super inspiring as an American soldier to know we're
(02:55):
not just going in there to destroy things.
We're going in there to maintainan ecosystem prior to what it
was, maybe sometimes better thanwhat it was.
So is that something where you would come in as an SME and tell
the military, hey, look, this ishow we need to rebuild this.
This is how the water flow needsto work, the civil
infrastructure. I mean, how deep do you get in
(03:15):
the weeds here? We absolutely do that when we
identify those issues. If we destroy something, our
goal is to try to put it back atleast as good as it was before.
Obviously, we always try to do better, but we're constrained
with budgets. To me, basically the big thing
is, is when I go in there, it's like, what do we have to work
with and what are my limitations?
Everything we do in Civil affairs is going back to what
(03:36):
are essential services for that community or place that we
destroyed something. And so we got to focus on the
priority. So we kind of have to weigh
those. I mean, we'll identify the
issues and as we have funding inthe future as a country is
basically taking back over, those issues will be identified
for them to clean up as well. So we obviously go in there with
the best intent to make it better than it was before and we
(03:57):
do our best to design it and setthem in a good state for the
future. That's powerful to hear that my
mom and dad are from Iraq and the stories they told me about
constant loss of electricity, the instability of the
infrastructure, the infighting between political parties and
all the distress. I mean, that's what caused them
to want to escape that area and to know that American forces
(04:19):
will go into. A place like that.
And try to rebuild it and try tohelp.
Re stabilize the territory. That's why I wanted to get into
civil affairs. Having that cultural background
that I have, I had a lot of friends in the army come up to
me. And ask me, hey, why aren't you
Civil Affairs? You can speak other languages,
you understand other cultures, be an asset for our country.
To go into spots like these and get my finger on the pulse of
(04:41):
what's going on with the people there 'cause there's so many
points of frustration that you just wouldn't assume, I guess,
right off the bat about other nations and whatnot.
And when it comes to war fighting tactics, the more
stable an environment is. The less.
Opportunity. An adversary has to come in to
invoke a state of instability toget people to work against us
and against one another. It's kind of my take on it.
(05:03):
Absolutely. I mean our goal here basically
is for us when we go in to transition the back to the local
government and the more stable we can make that area better
off, we are, it protects us and it protects that nation hosts
with the government etcetera. So if we can leave the more
stable, I mean that's our ultimate goal.
That's awesome, and I know you've worked with Native
American tribes as well, so can you tell me about some of the
(05:26):
advice you have working with multicultural backgrounds?
What skills have you learned to put people at ease, to be
allowed to gain access into their territory and to get hands
on? If you fly into a community, a
lot of times the first question you get is how long are you
going to be here? You find that is an odd
question, but what they're trying to get at is what are you
(05:46):
trying to do here? Why are you here?
Are you going to be here a long time?
Do you really care about what's going on?
And getting back to that is really just sitting down and
listening. You're going to be an outsider
for a while until they get to trust you.
And I think it's really similar anywhere you go in a cultural
heritage you're just not familiar with, to sit down and
(06:07):
really listen and find out what they're really interested in,
what are their issues, Try to understand what's going on, what
they hold sacred. And then you start asking
questions. Be engaged in what they're
telling you and once they Start learning that you're interested
and you're trustworthy, you're going to be there.
You're going to continue to comeback.
You're going to deal with the issues, you're going to explain
(06:28):
to them. You're going to let them have a
voice and kind of demonstrate and show them what you're doing.
Make them feel a part of the project.
I think that's key anywhere. I mean, that's one of the
biggest things I took away from working with some of the Native
communities in Alaska. Probably the biggest 1 was
subsistence. If you're not familiar with
that, Alaska actually has separate hunting seasons for not
(06:49):
just native communities, but rural communities in Alaska.
And so they get a, a separate right under a federal hunting
and fishing. And so they can actually dictate
what other hunting and fishing regulations in the state are
allowed for. They find it very important that
they get their customary and traditional harvest for food
because the cost of food is so expensive and it's important.
(07:09):
So you really have to sit down and listen to what they're
trying to say. I've gotten some certain
requests for different antler restrictions or different
harvests, and you want to try towork with them on it.
But you also look at the statistical numbers of what's
going on with that species. And you sit there and you
actually say, hey, is this really what you meant to say?
(07:29):
Because this is what it's going to cause?
And sometimes just sitting down,having that discussion with
them, they say, oh, no, we just wanted to make sure that we can
harvest this many deer. If you're in Southeast Alaska,
you're like, OK, well this is probably a better alternative.
Would that be acceptable for you?
And if you give them that feedback and discuss it with
them, you get much more buy in versus just sitting there
saying, no, we can't do that. They feel like you didn't even
(07:52):
consider their proposal, etcetera.
So you really just have to sit down and talk and listen.
Just keep making them part of the project, because the other
ones, ultimately they're going to take the project over when
you leave. As you interact with tribal
leaders, let's say, I'm assumingthat they're very protective
over their land and is that something that builds rapport
with them because they can see that you genuinely care about
(08:13):
their hunting strategies when you partake in that lifestyle
with them, does that build a relationship with them or do
they kind of see you as an? Outsider who is?
Through a scarcity mindset, I suppose, taking resources from
them, I imagine that it's a pretty good relationship
building. When I work for the Air Force,
One of our remote radar stationsis on Cactivity.
Basically, when we get stationedup there in September, they
(08:34):
harvest whales and it'll become the densest polar bear
population in the world. And the study polar bears was
kind of more my trade. But I would go up there at the
same time as they were harvesting and get involved and
try to participate as much as they'd let me.
They have their own ways of doing things.
You just basically stand back and start talking to their
leaders and see where you can help, where they don't find it.
(08:56):
We're overstepping your balance and help as much as possible.
People will eventually start inviting you into things.
You also get to try very interesting foods that they will
offer you. Always try it because it's a
kind of respect thing. You won't necessarily like
everything, it's just different.Say thank you and you don't have
to eat a whole bunch of it, but just try it.
(09:16):
What kind of event is this? How long are they doing this
for? How many months?
It's about a three-week process.Typically the whole village gets
involved, but customary and traditionally they'll use
bailing all sorts of things, which is basically the filter
system of the whale. They'll basically take the
bailing, they'll perform some type of art or etching on it and
then they can turn around and sell it for a profit.
(09:37):
And then they utilize it for a bunch of customary additional
uses. Polar bear, it is allowed to be
haunted. The native villages there work
with Fish and Wildlife Service and National Fisheries to kind
of set over the entire state of Alaska threshold of how many
polar bears are harvested by thenative village annually.
It's a pretty low number. It's less than 10 usually per
(09:58):
year and but it's not very common.
Our biggest thing is, are we having effects from ADOD
perspective on polar bears? Like are we making too much
noise that are affecting polar bear dens?
Are we having too much disturbance affecting mating
rituals or they may not be able to access the prey now.
So those are the types of thingswe look at, but it also causes
other issues. For example, like Cactovic, they
(10:21):
pull the whales to the end of the island when they're done,
just the leftover bone paws. That's what attracts the polar
bears, but it also attracts birds.
So now you have a bird airstrikehazard immediately at the end of
your flight line for C one 30s and things that are landing
there. So we have to learn and control
and put niddems out for our planes to let them know what the
(10:42):
issue is and how long it's in issue.
That's wild. OK, so you have a remote Air
Force Base landing aircraft. The whale bones attract birds.
So the birds are coming in as aircraft is landing.
And this is so you as an airman are helping to study kind of
this balance between the locals.Sure, they're harvesting whale,
(11:04):
but the DoD needs to operate in that area, not step on their
toes. But then you can't be mission
incapable at the same time. So is this like a just constant
meetings and discussions with? The Local.
Indigenous population or do you sort of study it at a distance
and then the DoD will adjust accordingly?
I mean, we work with local officials, but we're never going
to stop what they do. So DoD is going to adjust and
(11:25):
make it work. I mean, that's the bottom line.
It's not just Gactic, but they do it a lot of places around
Alaska. It's interesting, but it's
always been a challenge. I mean, we've got bird airstrike
hazards typically is overseen bythe Air Force.
They watch it and see where issues and concerns are and
what's attracting them. I mean, you could use Wake
Island in the Pacific as an example.
One of the biologists a long time ago decided that in the
(11:47):
three islands of the atoll, theyshould designate as a bird
sanctuary. And there's probably 3 or 4
million birds at the end of the flight line.
And that's a much more utilized runway than, say, some of these
remote areas. And it's always there.
It's just letting people know what's going on.
We keep immediately near the flight line open, but it affects
the way we fly and land at that island.
(12:09):
At airborne school we had a birdstrike.
Nobody was injured, but the birdwas down for maintenance for
quite a while, I think the entire day.
So is that a pretty common event?
If so, how do you mitigate for that?
Do you just have a bunch of aircraft on standby knowing that
a certain percentage are going to be disabled by bird strikes?
Or what's the management side like on the DoD?
(12:29):
It is known. We try to minimize it.
We do all sorts of different effects, changing grasses,
clearing trees, keeping grasses to some height, because keeping
grass very short may attract geese in certain areas versus if
you keep it at a moderate level,few inches higher where fox or
something like that can hide in the grasses.
(12:51):
So you won't get nearly as many geese in and around that area.
So I mean, there's ways, but just vegetative control where
you can kind of reuse those numbers in and around the fight
line. And then it's just new them just
making sure the aircraft know what's there to somebody new is
aware of to be really cautious in and around that area.
U.S. Department of Agriculture used
to be a big help with the Department of Defense and
(13:13):
helping us manage a lot of theseareas.
They still are. And then DoD's got its own pest
management and bash controls that we utilize as well around
all our fight lines. So each base basically has its
own group of individuals, whether it's specifically
designated as bash or not, just to protect that area.
So I went to event here in San Diego and at this event there's
(13:33):
a lady walking around. She had a hawk on her arm.
I was getting some sliders. She walked by me and I'm like,
excuse me, what's with the hawk?And she was like, it's to keep
the seagulls away, that you're keeping seagulls away with that
thing. And she said, yeah, it's
seagulls will stay away for likea huge distance.
She said they can see me carrying this hawk around and
they know not to come here, otherwise they'd be grabbing all
(13:54):
the burgers and food and just harassing us.
So I found that to be pretty interesting.
And I believe I've been seeing them around the air bases here
in San Diego. A lot of times DoD itself will
not participate in falconry stuff.
A lot of your states or maybe USDA would utilize that more
with an agreement with DoD. It's good to have that
interaction just to help keep some of the birds away.
(14:15):
Often times we use more of a mechanical device.
Sometimes it could be as simple as maybe a coyote that's fake.
You're going to constantly have to move that coyote because if
it just sits there, it's like a scarecrow.
It works for a short term and then all of a sudden birds are
landing on it because they realize it's not a threat.
So as long as they still think it's a potential threat,
whatever that is, could be a noise, it could be whatever,
(14:36):
it's useful. Once it's not, you're going to
have to change your tactics. And you're studying this, which
is cool, right? So you're giving the DoD advice
and local indigenous populationsadvice?
Based on what you're. Learning about tools and
resources you have to control populations of animals.
A lot of the bases, they basically have a radar system,
is very good at identifying birdmigrations across an area within
(15:00):
such a distance of the flight lines.
A group of us will go back and look at what mitigation measures
we have, are they being effective, what we need to
change, how often we need to change it, and we just continue
to assess. And now why did?
You go into civil affairs as a 38G.
Can you talk about the value that you bring?
Because again, you were the onlyperson there, and there is.
Very rare to have a 38G show up to a Civil Affairs triple C.
(15:23):
So what's exciting you about merging the two at an expert
level? I'd gotten out of Air Force a
long time ago, and I actually got a phone call, what was that,
2018 from Colonel? And he was recruiting me.
And I actually thought it was a joke because I was, I'm like,
I'm way too old. I'm in my late 40s already.
And I'm like, there's no way that the Army is interested in
trying to bring me back. And he's like, no, we have this
(15:44):
new recruiting process. It's more like hiring doctors.
We can bring people in rather quickly.
We're really just looking for the expertise, but you still
have to meet all the physical standards and requirements and
education requirements that the Army has.
And I always enjoyed my militaryexperience.
I like the structure, I really like the people, the culture,
just some of the duties that I had previously.
(16:04):
I was more interested in some ofthe natural resources and
wildlife instead of the engineering.
That was more my drive. And when he said, hey, we had
this natural resource position, I was really interested.
So I think there are some challenges with 38 Gulf.
We are much smaller groups. You know, we've got cultural
resources, we've got water resources, we've got engineers,
(16:25):
we've got law enforcement. I mean, there's just so many odd
positions out there that we're trying to help the Army with.
And each one has its unique focuses.
Under Natural resources specifically, we have a kind of
agreement with through the University of Wisconsin each
time somebody gets called out for an example, looking at
elephants in Tanzania, you know,what are the issues and
(16:45):
concerns? What is our ultimate goal?
Working with that community and transitioning and trying to help
them for support with the UnitedStates in the future.
We've kind of had those opportunities to help with the
management plan for Tanzania or we start dealing with issues of
effects of threat, endangered species.
And so we have to try to identify those issues early.
(17:06):
And most of the time, natural resources, it's things like we
want to go out and build a runway or what are the issues?
Maybe we just destroyed a bunch of habitat for a certain
species, or maybe there's birds nesting immediately at the end
of the flight line that are protected just because we're
outside the United States. Fish and Wildlife Service may
deem something important. And internationally, the local
(17:28):
populace, it may be sacred, it may be something else to them.
And so you have to consider not only our legal ramifications,
but the cultural ramifications. With that, there's any final
words of advice you want to giveor anything you'd like to say to
the audience? I think some of the biggest take
away here especially focus on the military community.
A lot of times as individuals are trying to get out of the
(17:49):
military and trying to transition into something else
or getting close to it and try to consider their options.
I think there's so many federal positions out there or a lot of
positions that are just designated for veterans.
The opportunities are endless and a lot of times, even if it's
just something where you just want to go for a couple weeks, a
year or a month, a year or something like that, or
occasionally make yourself available, There's a lot of
(18:11):
those opportunities out there that people just aren't aware
of. And you know, I would encourage
people to really take a look at some of those, start asking
questions to people. It's kind of a hidden gem out
there that if you don't talk to the right people, you're not
going to know about it. There's just so many
opportunities out there. Law enforcement's a big one now
that often times we just don't have enough federal and
government law enforcement officers to necessarily show up
out there. If you've got that background,
(18:33):
basically the federal governmentcan transition you into
something temporary and still allow you to go out and operate
and function that way. So looking in those
opportunities I think is just something to really help our
military community as they transition later in life, I
think is an important thing. It just opens doors.
Matt, I really appreciate. Your time, it was great talking
to you. I'm really glad I got to meet
you. I'm looking forward to linking
(18:53):
up with you in the future and maybe getting off the field with
you at some point. Absolutely, man.
You're you're welcome all the time.
Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like
and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast
platform. Also, if you're interested in
coming on the show or hosting anepisode, e-mail us at
ca.podcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the e-mail and CA
(19:15):
Association website in the show notes.
And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the
field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to
forward US relations, thank you all for what you're doing.
This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great
episodes one CA podcast.
Hello everybody, My name is Daniel Zaya Joseph.
I am your host for today's one CA podcast episode and I'm
really excited to bring Matt Moran.
He is an incredibly smart guy. He.
Has three master's degrees, 6 bachelor's degrees.
Matt, I'm stoked to have you on here.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience.
Great to be here today, Dan. Thank you for the offer.
(00:24):
And one thing that inspired me to offer you an interview spot
here on this podcast is the factthat you are a 38G.
Now, I didn't really know what that was going in.
I heard about it, but it was kind of esoteric in nature for
me to understand and sounded like subject matter expert, a
consultant, somebody the government trusts to give really
key advice. But I didn't really know what it
(00:45):
was. And then I met you.
And then all the instructors were shocked to see you.
I mean, you were a Unicorn. They were like.
I heard there's a 38G in this room.
Who's the 30? 8G And you'd be kind of quietly
back there just like, yeah, that's that's me.
And I mean they were literally entering the room.
To be like. Who's the 38G?
I I've never met one in real life, so tell me about the magic
(01:06):
of that acronym. Yeah, 38G is a very unique
program the Army started back in2017.
Basically the Army was looking at.
We have a bunch of civil affairsofficers that are extremely
capable, our wildlife biologistsby trade, but I mean, we can
deal with anything. Natural resources, sometimes it
overlaps. Sometimes you may have a water
specialist, but you also need a natural resources specialist.
(01:28):
Water specialist may be looking very specifically at drinking
water. The natural resource specialist
may be looking at what effects is it having to fish aquatic
species. Even things like that's
basically the Army identified the shortage and where they
needed reach back and so they want to recruit a bunch of
people were looking at about 3, mid three hundreds to have that
(01:49):
reach back to be able to supportthe civil affairs community.
So there's only about 300 peoplein the world that have your
specialty. As of right now, it was a little
about, it was close to 350. The Army did just put a pause,
kind of a change in directions. The biggest thing was trying to
bring us on and make sure we hadall the Army requirements
courses, get through those and then start focusing on
(02:10):
developing the program. Right now, we're kind of in that
development stage, plus with some new executive orders, a
little bit of restructuring to kind of stream on and make this
better. Yeah, and there's a lot to look
into here. But speaking as a prior combat
engineer, I was trained by the Army to understand whatever we
blow up in a combat zone, we tend to fix.
We want to repair it for the local populace.
(02:32):
We blow up an airfield. If we strike a water facility
plant or an electrical generation plant, we'll repair
it. Once that battle is done, once
we get the opposing forces wherewe need them to be for us to
take over, then for the local populace, we'll go back and
reconstitute what was damaged and destroyed, which I found to
be super inspiring as an American soldier to know we're
(02:55):
not just going in there to destroy things.
We're going in there to maintainan ecosystem prior to what it
was, maybe sometimes better thanwhat it was.
So is that something where you would come in as an SME and tell
the military, hey, look, this ishow we need to rebuild this.
This is how the water flow needsto work, the civil
infrastructure. I mean, how deep do you get in
(03:15):
the weeds here? We absolutely do that when we
identify those issues. If we destroy something, our
goal is to try to put it back atleast as good as it was before.
Obviously, we always try to do better, but we're constrained
with budgets. To me, basically the big thing
is, is when I go in there, it's like, what do we have to work
with and what are my limitations?
Everything we do in Civil affairs is going back to what
(03:36):
are essential services for that community or place that we
destroyed something. And so we got to focus on the
priority. So we kind of have to weigh
those. I mean, we'll identify the
issues and as we have funding inthe future as a country is
basically taking back over, those issues will be identified
for them to clean up as well. So we obviously go in there with
the best intent to make it better than it was before and we
(03:57):
do our best to design it and setthem in a good state for the
future. That's powerful to hear that my
mom and dad are from Iraq and the stories they told me about
constant loss of electricity, the instability of the
infrastructure, the infighting between political parties and
all the distress. I mean, that's what caused them
to want to escape that area and to know that American forces
(04:19):
will go into. A place like that.
And try to rebuild it and try tohelp.
Re stabilize the territory. That's why I wanted to get into
civil affairs. Having that cultural background
that I have, I had a lot of friends in the army come up to
me. And ask me, hey, why aren't you
Civil Affairs? You can speak other languages,
you understand other cultures, be an asset for our country.
To go into spots like these and get my finger on the pulse of
(04:41):
what's going on with the people there 'cause there's so many
points of frustration that you just wouldn't assume, I guess,
right off the bat about other nations and whatnot.
And when it comes to war fighting tactics, the more
stable an environment is. The less.
Opportunity. An adversary has to come in to
invoke a state of instability toget people to work against us
and against one another. It's kind of my take on it.
(05:03):
Absolutely. I mean our goal here basically
is for us when we go in to transition the back to the local
government and the more stable we can make that area better
off, we are, it protects us and it protects that nation hosts
with the government etcetera. So if we can leave the more
stable, I mean that's our ultimate goal.
That's awesome, and I know you've worked with Native
American tribes as well, so can you tell me about some of the
(05:26):
advice you have working with multicultural backgrounds?
What skills have you learned to put people at ease, to be
allowed to gain access into their territory and to get hands
on? If you fly into a community, a
lot of times the first question you get is how long are you
going to be here? You find that is an odd
question, but what they're trying to get at is what are you
(05:46):
trying to do here? Why are you here?
Are you going to be here a long time?
Do you really care about what's going on?
And getting back to that is really just sitting down and
listening. You're going to be an outsider
for a while until they get to trust you.
And I think it's really similar anywhere you go in a cultural
heritage you're just not familiar with, to sit down and
(06:07):
really listen and find out what they're really interested in,
what are their issues, Try to understand what's going on, what
they hold sacred. And then you start asking
questions. Be engaged in what they're
telling you and once they Start learning that you're interested
and you're trustworthy, you're going to be there.
You're going to continue to comeback.
You're going to deal with the issues, you're going to explain
(06:28):
to them. You're going to let them have a
voice and kind of demonstrate and show them what you're doing.
Make them feel a part of the project.
I think that's key anywhere. I mean, that's one of the
biggest things I took away from working with some of the Native
communities in Alaska. Probably the biggest 1 was
subsistence. If you're not familiar with
that, Alaska actually has separate hunting seasons for not
(06:49):
just native communities, but rural communities in Alaska.
And so they get a, a separate right under a federal hunting
and fishing. And so they can actually dictate
what other hunting and fishing regulations in the state are
allowed for. They find it very important that
they get their customary and traditional harvest for food
because the cost of food is so expensive and it's important.
(07:09):
So you really have to sit down and listen to what they're
trying to say. I've gotten some certain
requests for different antler restrictions or different
harvests, and you want to try towork with them on it.
But you also look at the statistical numbers of what's
going on with that species. And you sit there and you
actually say, hey, is this really what you meant to say?
(07:29):
Because this is what it's going to cause?
And sometimes just sitting down,having that discussion with
them, they say, oh, no, we just wanted to make sure that we can
harvest this many deer. If you're in Southeast Alaska,
you're like, OK, well this is probably a better alternative.
Would that be acceptable for you?
And if you give them that feedback and discuss it with
them, you get much more buy in versus just sitting there
saying, no, we can't do that. They feel like you didn't even
(07:52):
consider their proposal, etcetera.
So you really just have to sit down and talk and listen.
Just keep making them part of the project, because the other
ones, ultimately they're going to take the project over when
you leave. As you interact with tribal
leaders, let's say, I'm assumingthat they're very protective
over their land and is that something that builds rapport
with them because they can see that you genuinely care about
(08:13):
their hunting strategies when you partake in that lifestyle
with them, does that build a relationship with them or do
they kind of see you as an? Outsider who is?
Through a scarcity mindset, I suppose, taking resources from
them, I imagine that it's a pretty good relationship
building. When I work for the Air Force,
One of our remote radar stationsis on Cactivity.
Basically, when we get stationedup there in September, they
(08:34):
harvest whales and it'll become the densest polar bear
population in the world. And the study polar bears was
kind of more my trade. But I would go up there at the
same time as they were harvesting and get involved and
try to participate as much as they'd let me.
They have their own ways of doing things.
You just basically stand back and start talking to their
leaders and see where you can help, where they don't find it.
(08:56):
We're overstepping your balance and help as much as possible.
People will eventually start inviting you into things.
You also get to try very interesting foods that they will
offer you. Always try it because it's a
kind of respect thing. You won't necessarily like
everything, it's just different.Say thank you and you don't have
to eat a whole bunch of it, but just try it.
(09:16):
What kind of event is this? How long are they doing this
for? How many months?
It's about a three-week process.Typically the whole village gets
involved, but customary and traditionally they'll use
bailing all sorts of things, which is basically the filter
system of the whale. They'll basically take the
bailing, they'll perform some type of art or etching on it and
then they can turn around and sell it for a profit.
(09:37):
And then they utilize it for a bunch of customary additional
uses. Polar bear, it is allowed to be
haunted. The native villages there work
with Fish and Wildlife Service and National Fisheries to kind
of set over the entire state of Alaska threshold of how many
polar bears are harvested by thenative village annually.
It's a pretty low number. It's less than 10 usually per
(09:58):
year and but it's not very common.
Our biggest thing is, are we having effects from ADOD
perspective on polar bears? Like are we making too much
noise that are affecting polar bear dens?
Are we having too much disturbance affecting mating
rituals or they may not be able to access the prey now.
So those are the types of thingswe look at, but it also causes
other issues. For example, like Cactovic, they
(10:21):
pull the whales to the end of the island when they're done,
just the leftover bone paws. That's what attracts the polar
bears, but it also attracts birds.
So now you have a bird airstrikehazard immediately at the end of
your flight line for C one 30s and things that are landing
there. So we have to learn and control
and put niddems out for our planes to let them know what the
(10:42):
issue is and how long it's in issue.
That's wild. OK, so you have a remote Air
Force Base landing aircraft. The whale bones attract birds.
So the birds are coming in as aircraft is landing.
And this is so you as an airman are helping to study kind of
this balance between the locals.Sure, they're harvesting whale,
(11:04):
but the DoD needs to operate in that area, not step on their
toes. But then you can't be mission
incapable at the same time. So is this like a just constant
meetings and discussions with? The Local.
Indigenous population or do you sort of study it at a distance
and then the DoD will adjust accordingly?
I mean, we work with local officials, but we're never going
to stop what they do. So DoD is going to adjust and
(11:25):
make it work. I mean, that's the bottom line.
It's not just Gactic, but they do it a lot of places around
Alaska. It's interesting, but it's
always been a challenge. I mean, we've got bird airstrike
hazards typically is overseen bythe Air Force.
They watch it and see where issues and concerns are and
what's attracting them. I mean, you could use Wake
Island in the Pacific as an example.
One of the biologists a long time ago decided that in the
(11:47):
three islands of the atoll, theyshould designate as a bird
sanctuary. And there's probably 3 or 4
million birds at the end of the flight line.
And that's a much more utilized runway than, say, some of these
remote areas. And it's always there.
It's just letting people know what's going on.
We keep immediately near the flight line open, but it affects
the way we fly and land at that island.
(12:09):
At airborne school we had a birdstrike.
Nobody was injured, but the birdwas down for maintenance for
quite a while, I think the entire day.
So is that a pretty common event?
If so, how do you mitigate for that?
Do you just have a bunch of aircraft on standby knowing that
a certain percentage are going to be disabled by bird strikes?
Or what's the management side like on the DoD?
(12:29):
It is known. We try to minimize it.
We do all sorts of different effects, changing grasses,
clearing trees, keeping grasses to some height, because keeping
grass very short may attract geese in certain areas versus if
you keep it at a moderate level,few inches higher where fox or
something like that can hide in the grasses.
(12:51):
So you won't get nearly as many geese in and around that area.
So I mean, there's ways, but just vegetative control where
you can kind of reuse those numbers in and around the fight
line. And then it's just new them just
making sure the aircraft know what's there to somebody new is
aware of to be really cautious in and around that area.
U.S. Department of Agriculture used
to be a big help with the Department of Defense and
(13:13):
helping us manage a lot of theseareas.
They still are. And then DoD's got its own pest
management and bash controls that we utilize as well around
all our fight lines. So each base basically has its
own group of individuals, whether it's specifically
designated as bash or not, just to protect that area.
So I went to event here in San Diego and at this event there's
(13:33):
a lady walking around. She had a hawk on her arm.
I was getting some sliders. She walked by me and I'm like,
excuse me, what's with the hawk?And she was like, it's to keep
the seagulls away, that you're keeping seagulls away with that
thing. And she said, yeah, it's
seagulls will stay away for likea huge distance.
She said they can see me carrying this hawk around and
they know not to come here, otherwise they'd be grabbing all
(13:54):
the burgers and food and just harassing us.
So I found that to be pretty interesting.
And I believe I've been seeing them around the air bases here
in San Diego. A lot of times DoD itself will
not participate in falconry stuff.
A lot of your states or maybe USDA would utilize that more
with an agreement with DoD. It's good to have that
interaction just to help keep some of the birds away.
(14:15):
Often times we use more of a mechanical device.
Sometimes it could be as simple as maybe a coyote that's fake.
You're going to constantly have to move that coyote because if
it just sits there, it's like a scarecrow.
It works for a short term and then all of a sudden birds are
landing on it because they realize it's not a threat.
So as long as they still think it's a potential threat,
whatever that is, could be a noise, it could be whatever,
(14:36):
it's useful. Once it's not, you're going to
have to change your tactics. And you're studying this, which
is cool, right? So you're giving the DoD advice
and local indigenous populationsadvice?
Based on what you're. Learning about tools and
resources you have to control populations of animals.
A lot of the bases, they basically have a radar system,
is very good at identifying birdmigrations across an area within
(15:00):
such a distance of the flight lines.
A group of us will go back and look at what mitigation measures
we have, are they being effective, what we need to
change, how often we need to change it, and we just continue
to assess. And now why did?
You go into civil affairs as a 38G.
Can you talk about the value that you bring?
Because again, you were the onlyperson there, and there is.
Very rare to have a 38G show up to a Civil Affairs triple C.
(15:23):
So what's exciting you about merging the two at an expert
level? I'd gotten out of Air Force a
long time ago, and I actually got a phone call, what was that,
2018 from Colonel? And he was recruiting me.
And I actually thought it was a joke because I was, I'm like,
I'm way too old. I'm in my late 40s already.
And I'm like, there's no way that the Army is interested in
trying to bring me back. And he's like, no, we have this
(15:44):
new recruiting process. It's more like hiring doctors.
We can bring people in rather quickly.
We're really just looking for the expertise, but you still
have to meet all the physical standards and requirements and
education requirements that the Army has.
And I always enjoyed my militaryexperience.
I like the structure, I really like the people, the culture,
just some of the duties that I had previously.
(16:04):
I was more interested in some ofthe natural resources and
wildlife instead of the engineering.
That was more my drive. And when he said, hey, we had
this natural resource position, I was really interested.
So I think there are some challenges with 38 Gulf.
We are much smaller groups. You know, we've got cultural
resources, we've got water resources, we've got engineers,
(16:25):
we've got law enforcement. I mean, there's just so many odd
positions out there that we're trying to help the Army with.
And each one has its unique focuses.
Under Natural resources specifically, we have a kind of
agreement with through the University of Wisconsin each
time somebody gets called out for an example, looking at
elephants in Tanzania, you know,what are the issues and
(16:45):
concerns? What is our ultimate goal?
Working with that community and transitioning and trying to help
them for support with the UnitedStates in the future.
We've kind of had those opportunities to help with the
management plan for Tanzania or we start dealing with issues of
effects of threat, endangered species.
And so we have to try to identify those issues early.
(17:06):
And most of the time, natural resources, it's things like we
want to go out and build a runway or what are the issues?
Maybe we just destroyed a bunch of habitat for a certain
species, or maybe there's birds nesting immediately at the end
of the flight line that are protected just because we're
outside the United States. Fish and Wildlife Service may
deem something important. And internationally, the local
(17:28):
populace, it may be sacred, it may be something else to them.
And so you have to consider not only our legal ramifications,
but the cultural ramifications. With that, there's any final
words of advice you want to giveor anything you'd like to say to
the audience? I think some of the biggest take
away here especially focus on the military community.
A lot of times as individuals are trying to get out of the
(17:49):
military and trying to transition into something else
or getting close to it and try to consider their options.
I think there's so many federal positions out there or a lot of
positions that are just designated for veterans.
The opportunities are endless and a lot of times, even if it's
just something where you just want to go for a couple weeks, a
year or a month, a year or something like that, or
occasionally make yourself available, There's a lot of
(18:11):
those opportunities out there that people just aren't aware
of. And you know, I would encourage
people to really take a look at some of those, start asking
questions to people. It's kind of a hidden gem out
there that if you don't talk to the right people, you're not
going to know about it. There's just so many
opportunities out there. Law enforcement's a big one now
that often times we just don't have enough federal and
government law enforcement officers to necessarily show up
out there. If you've got that background,
(18:33):
basically the federal governmentcan transition you into
something temporary and still allow you to go out and operate
and function that way. So looking in those
opportunities I think is just something to really help our
military community as they transition later in life, I
think is an important thing. It just opens doors.
Matt, I really appreciate. Your time, it was great talking
to you. I'm really glad I got to meet
you. I'm looking forward to linking
(18:53):
up with you in the future and maybe getting off the field with
you at some point. Absolutely, man.
You're you're welcome all the time.
Thanks for listening. If you get a chance, please like
and subscribe and rate the show on your favorite podcast
platform. Also, if you're interested in
coming on the show or hosting anepisode, e-mail us at
ca.podcasting@gmail.com. I'll have the e-mail and CA
(19:15):
Association website in the show notes.
And now, most importantly, to those currently out in the
field, working with a partner nation's people or leadership to
forward US relations, thank you all for what you're doing.
This is Jack, your host. Stay tuned for more great
episodes one CA podcast.
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