September 30, 2025 • 23 mins
🎧 Welcome to the Once CA Podcast.
In this episode, host Assad Raza welcomes Jim Hake, founder of Spirit of America, a nonprofit that directly supports overseas U.S. Military, Diplomatic, and Development efforts.
Hake shares how his organization bridges critical gaps in foreign assistance—delivering rapid, locally tailored support that helps advance U.S. foreign policy goals in complex environments.
From frontline partnerships in Ukraine and West Africa to strategic engagement in the Indo-Pacific, Hake explains how Spirit of America works alongside Civil Affairs teams and other U.S. personnel to build trust, deliver impact, and reinforce democratic values.
One CA is a production of the Civil Affairs Association, featuring voices from the field—military, diplomatic, development, and intelligence professionals—who operate in the “last three feet” of U.S. foreign relations. Our goal is to inform, inspire, and elevate the role of Civil Affairs in global engagement.
🔗 Learn more about Jim Hake and Spirit of America: spiritofamerica.org
📩 Contact the show: CApodcasting@gmail.com
🌐 Visit: civilaffairsassoc.org
🏆 Ranked Top 10 Foreign Policy Podcast by Feedspot: See the list
🎵 Music credit: Relaxing Rhythms CH, Album 92 Sing Song Swing Jazz: Twist Till Your Hips Hurt YouTube link
---
Organization,Hashtag
Spirit of America,#SpiritOfAmerica,#SupportOurTroops,#CivilAffairsSupport
Civil Affairs Association,#CivilAffairs,#OneCAPodcast,#LastThreeFeet
USAID,#USAID,#ForeignAssistance,#DevelopmentDiplomacy
U.S. Department of State,#Diplomacy,#USForeignPolicy,#DemocracySupport
U.S. Army Civil Affairs,#CivilAffairsOps,#MilitarySupport,#StrategicEngagement
Atlantic Council,#FrontlineDemocracy,#UkraineSupport,#WestAfricaSecurity
Brookings Institution,#ForeignAid,#GlobalEngagement,#IndoPacificStrategy
Carnegie Endowment,#CivilMilitaryRelations,#HumanitarianAssistance,#ConflictPrevention
Freedom House,#DemocracyPromotion,#HumanRightsSupport,#UkraineSolidarity
Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS),#CSISLive,#GlobalSecurity,#DevelopmentMatters
Harvard Belfer Center,#BelferCenter,#NationalSecurity,#CivicAction
Stanford Internet Observatory,#DigitalDemocracy,#CivicTech,#InformationOps
Global Citizen,#HumanitarianSupport,#NGOImpact,#HashtagActivism
Bosch Stiftung (West Africa),#LocalNGOs,#WestAfricaPeace,#CommunityResilience
Ukrainian Civil Society Groups,#StandWithUkraine,#StopRussianAggression,#UkraineNGOs
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the One CA Podcast. I'm your host, Assad Raza, and
today we're honored to have a special guest, Jim Hake, the
founder and CEO of Spirit of America.
Jim, thanks for being here. Assad, it's real.
Honored to be with you all. Civil Affairs actually inspired
the idea for Spirit of America more than 20 years ago, so it's
great to be with you. Oh, thank you.
(00:22):
For those that that are not familiar with Spirit of America,
can you explain the mission and the focus?
Sure. Spirit of America is a privately
funded 5O1C3 nonprofit. We work alongside U.S. troops,
State Department personnel serving all over the world, and
provide private assistance in support of their missions.
We support their safety and success and, more broadly, we
(00:44):
provide assistance to support national security objectives.
Perfect. So how did the organization get
started? I know you talked a little bit
about Civil Affairs 20 years ago.
My assumption is that the organization stood up post 911.
Yeah, When the attacks of 9/11 occurred, my entire career up to
that point had been as a in the tech industry and as an
(01:05):
entrepreneur. I'd started one of the early
Internet media companies. I was working on an Internet
software company at the time, had no military or government or
foreign assistance experience atall.
But I did have a deep belief that the idea of America is the
world's best idea. And after the attacks of 911, I
understood those attacks more onour values and ideals than on
(01:27):
our territory, as horrific as the attacks on our territory
were, of course. So I wanted to do something to
help. And you know, I've been through
enough as an entrepreneur, the ups and downs of the American
dream and let's call it to have a pretty good understanding of
the difference between motion and progress.
I wanted to do something would actually make a meaningful
contribution. And it was learning about the
(01:47):
efforts of Army Special Forces team engaged in civil affairs
activities in Afghanistan that it ultimately inspired the idea
for Spirit of America. Oh, that's great.
Remember seeing the 60 Minutes episode on the teams in
Afghanistan doing civil affairs activities and that really
motivated me to want to become acivil affairs officer.
So yeah, I can see trying to usehumanitarian assistance, civil
(02:10):
affairs type activities to support US objectives.
Can, you know, motivate someone to want to do something like
this? So can you explain some of the
current regions or country that your organization is currently
active in right now? Sure.
We are active in Taiwan, Ukraine, West Africa, coastal
West Africa and Benin, specifically in Lebanon, in
(02:31):
Iraqi Kurdistan and about a dozen other countries with small
scale efforts. And the the simple idea behind
what we do is we communicate directly with, you know, they
could be an ambassador, could bea foreign service officer and
many civil affairs personnel. And we start with a very simple
question, which is what are you trying to accomplish and how can
we help? For many of the folks we talked
(02:52):
to, it sounds too good to be true that somebody actually
wants to help support the mission with no strings
attached. Before we started told you, I
had worked with Zach Bazzi on the certain problem set between
2015 to 2019. And it's funny, at that time,
U.S. forces were also losing funding and part of America was
really supportive and really useful in trying to meet some of
those immediate needs on the ground that really supported our
(03:12):
objectives. So yeah, I really appreciate how
you guys do that. Yeah, it's about filling the
gaps between what needs to be done to support US interests, to
support the success of teams like the ones you've served on,
and what government can do. Government can't do everything.
And when you can bring in the power of the American people and
power of American assistance in the private sector in support of
(03:34):
what servicemen and women like you were trying to accomplish,
it has a really powerful effect.So in but in right now, of
course, the the counterterrorismfight in Africa a little more
broadly is a little bit off the radar.
The attention focused on the Middle East with Iran and then
Ukraine. But it's extremely important
work and we maintain relationships and engagements
(03:55):
even when things aren't on the front page of the newspaper as
it were. So in Benin, we've been working
with civil affairs with Sock Africa personnel as well as the
Benin these military up in the northern part of Benin to build
a resilience and connect the local populations in northern
Benin with the bed in these military to be able to improve
security and stability in that area.
(04:16):
So we help the bed in these military and the local
communities form community councils to communicate needs to
the bed in these military of things like education or health
care or livestock vaccination. And we provided the assistance
to get all that going, and we funded veterinary and health
assistance. But it's all done not just to
(04:38):
have the immediate effect, but to improve security by
connecting the Beninese with local communities in the north,
to make them more resilient and resistant and help protect them
against the terrorist groups that are operating up there.
Wow, that is great. It's funny because it sounds
exactly like what Civil Affairs does well.
It is. Yeah, that is great.
So working in areas like that that don't have a big U.S.
(04:58):
military presence, what are someof the operational challenges
that you see your teams facing? Well, there are a number of
challenges, as you know, and you're one of the biggest ones
is can operate in areas with appropriate levels of security.
And we've been able to do that through our unique relationship
with both the US military and byextension our military's
partner, in this case, the Betanese military.
(05:20):
So I should note that as a privately funded organization,
Spirit America has broken groundin terms of the military's
ability to collaborate with a private organization like ours.
Should also note everything I'm talking about is 100% legal,
approved, and so forth, and it does involve private assistance.
Not we're not a government contractor.
We have a unique agreement with the Department of Defense that
(05:42):
allows military personnel to communicate with us, to
collaborate, identify needs, receive and distribute
assistance and provide logistical support, all with the
discretion of military teams andcommands.
So in the case of Benin, we havehad site visits and spent time
in the northern areas both with US personnel and with Beninese
(06:02):
military. And the Beninese military trust
us as much as the US military personnel do, largely because of
our relationship with the US military.
So operating in ways that are, you know, common sense secure is
extremely important for us. And the key to our ability to
have an impact is our flexibility.
And we operate entirely in the non lethal domain, but we can
(06:24):
provide everything from SecurityAssistance to more humanitarian
economic assistance, the sorts that are are more conventionally
associated with a civil affairs.So being able to spam that
spectrum and be flexible to do what's needed and provide
combination of assistance, some of which might be Security
Assistance for the beneties military, you know, radios for
example, so they can improve their communication to funding
(06:46):
for projects that allow them to build their relationships with
the local population. It is the whole package of
assistance that is solution oriented.
And one of the challenges of course is while figuring out
what needs to be done. And you're back to my comment
about not confusing motion with progress.
It's pretty easy to you'll gaugein motion.
(07:06):
It's much harder to actually have an effect and an impact.
And in the domains which you've operated in that we operate in,
it's, you know, much harder to have a lasting meaningful impact
than it is to do something that can be made to look good.
And that's just one of the challenges to make sure that
working with private philanthropic support, our most
(07:27):
important supporters are successful entrepreneurs and
investors and they expect and want, rightly so, a return on
their investment. So they're not interested in
motion, they're interested in progress.
So the work that we need to do to make sure that we're steward
of that support and that we're actually having a real return on
investment, it's hard work, as you know.
(07:49):
Absolutely. It's really hard working being a
green suitor, being a civil affairs officer at the times.
It was kind of challenging you. How do you measure progress
specifically when you're not there for the long term and
trying to justify a project on the ground saying, hey, this is
going to benefit this local population for the next 5 to 10
years, but there's no guarantees.
How do you measure progress fromyour standpoint?
Depends on what you're trying toachieve.
Unlike in business, which it hasthe difficult but simple idea of
(08:13):
profit loss, no such thing exists in the domain of which
we're we're talking about, of course.
So it's like what is the objective here and how are you
going to measure progress towardthat objective?
And so that varies because the objectives vary.
So I'll switch from the West Africa example to something
that's not been a civil affairs oriented, which is our work in
Ukraine. We've been active in Ukraine
since 2014. So one of the things we did
(08:36):
early on was provided the support need to start up
Ukraine's first armed forces radio station.
It's called Army FM, and both the Ukrainians as well as the US
embassy, everyone on the US sideand Ukrainian side saw the
problem of Russian propaganda targeted at Ukrainian soldiers
fighting in the east in the Donbas.
The Russians were eventually trying to get the Ukrainians to
(08:57):
give up and go home, in which case it would be game over.
So there were Ukrainians who hadthe idea for this radio station
to be able to meet the information and entertainment
needs of Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines.
We thought it was a great idea and we said, well, let's provide
the support to test that idea tosee if it works.
But we did that with transmitters, studio equipment
so they could create programmingthat would be broadcast into the
(09:19):
Dome bus. It was an immediate and
extraordinary success. We had planned on providing more
support to scale it up once it was proven the Ukrainian armed
forces said we've got it from here.
And so we didn't have to put anymore Spirit of America funding
into that. The Ukrainians took it and ran
with it. And that station has been
operating ever since 2015 in support of the current conflict.
(09:40):
So the measure there was ultimately, are people going to
listen to it, right. I, if you have radio station, of
course, doesn't matter if peopledon't listen to it.
So back in 2016, we drove aroundthe Dome boss and stopped in,
you know, unannounced on different forward points for the
Ukrainian military and would drive into a dining hall or so
forth. And it would be playing and
(10:01):
people listening to it. There would be radios, cell
phones, people listening to the station.
So that was a pretty good measure there of wow, is this
working? Of course, the the information
battle is a never ending one, especially with an adversary
like Russia. So it's not like you do that.
You say we're done, that's it. We won.
It takes constant effort. And since the whole scale
invasion, we provided nearly $100 million of non lethal
(10:25):
assistance in various forms to Ukraine's frontline troops.
Much of that has been in supportof Ukrainian special operations
forces, with things from surveillance drones to thermal
mitigation gear, a range of assistance that's had a profound
effect at Ukraine's ability to defend their freedom and
democracy. I follow Pauline Denny on
(10:47):
LinkedIn and I also follow Spread America on Facebook and I
see all that which is great. I did not know anything about
the drones and some of the othernon lethal assistance you're
providing to their special operation troops.
Can you expand a little bit about Taiwan and some of the
civilian organizations you're working with there, because I
think this will be unique for listeners.
In Taiwan, as we do anywhere, westart off with understanding
(11:09):
what is the real objective here and how can we support it,
because it's easy to do good things, It's a lot harder to do
important things. Where we're trying to focus our
resources is on important things.
So in the case of Taiwan, the overall goal was help Taiwan
maintain its democracy, its freedom, and its friendship and
(11:31):
partnership with the United States of America.
So that's the overarching goal. And our task has been, well, how
do we contribute to that in a meaningful way?
Again, by filling gaps and doingwhat needs to be done.
But government is not doing. And one of the main efforts
there over the last three years has been to support Taiwan civil
society in preparedness, emergency response capabilities
(11:53):
and increasing civilian resilience to hopefully deter
any kind of military invasion. And if there is one, to be able
to respond to that and hang in there long enough for help to
arrive. And so we worked with a number
of civil society organizations that are training civilians.
We've provided support. So one organization, Forward
(12:14):
Alliance, has trained more than 20,000 Taiwanese and 1st
responders skills as well as we've been the catalyst that has
connected those civil society groups with Taiwan's government
and official first responders. So part of that has been working
with the Taiwanese National FireAgency to get these civilian
(12:34):
groups. We've helped get going connected
with the fire agency and fire departments at a local level
because it's not very helpful ifthe civilian groups aren't
connected with the official responders to be able to have a
joint common effort in the eventof some contingency.
Our last job in the military wastraining Central and South
American officers and trying to plan for natural or man made
disasters similar to what you'retalking about in trying to bring
(12:57):
in other agencies, fire department, EMS, because the
culture within some of these other partner nations is that
everything's silos and they kindof plan and train individually
and never kind of bring everybody together.
So trying to bridge that gap is a civil affairs officer and
trying to bring everybody together.
I hate this how you're going to plan for natural disaster, which
can also translate into a man made disaster too.
(13:18):
A. 100%, and helping to avoid the silos of excellence.
Yeah, it's just a natural thing in business, government,
military, wherever you go. And since we are outside the
system but very well integrated with it, we can talk to anyone
at any time and it doesn't violate the the chain of
commander chain of communication.
So we can talk to you on the US military side, a staff Sergeant
(13:41):
one day in a flag officer, the next civilian as well, an
ambassador, a foreign service officer, a public affairs
officer. And same thing in Taiwan.
And we have enough of a track record that people trust and
understand where we're coming from, that we are genuinely
there to help and support their efforts.
And by having the flexibility totalk to anyone at any time, we
can connect the dots much more quickly than if we belong
(14:03):
somewhere inside the government or military system.
Yeah, What are some lessons learned as the priorities for
USG has shifted? I'll start with a big picture
observation. Or adversaries who are not
constrained by democracy, the rule of law, who can command all
instruments of their national power.
Russia and China can direct anybody to do anything they
want. Well, that's not the nature of
(14:25):
the American system, of course. So up against those adversaries,
when we're only using what government can do, it's like
we're fighting with one arm tiedbehind our back.
It's a simple way to think aboutit and very accurate, but it's a
profound point. And when you think about what it
means to be fighting with an armtied behind your back, well,
that's not going to go very well.
(14:45):
That's an unlikely way to win. And leads you to basically be
playing defense. Spirit of America, bringing in
the old private assistances, it's like bringing the other arm
into the fight. And it's not just that you can
throw twice as many punches as it were.
It changes everything. It changes what is possible for
you to win that battle, to win that fight.
And so Spirit of America with private assistance brings in
(15:07):
that other arm. And we're just getting started
with what that can mean in termsof helping to achieve national
security objectives. When we come in with a civil
affairs team or a military commander, an ambassador, we
change what is possible. So if you're not civil affairs
officer on the ground, you are 100% understandably focused on
doing what you think you can do with the resources you have.
(15:30):
I mean, it's irrational to do otherwise.
What we come in with different resources and a level of
flexibility that civil affairs teams, that government personnel
more broadly have never conceived of before because it
hasn't been possible. And so we look at, OK, what are
you trying to accomplish or we can do almost anything again,
the non lethal space of course to support that mission.
(15:50):
And it does change what is possible in terms of solving the
most intractable problem. So one lesson since I started
the organization is we have a capability that can be scaled up
because the infrastructure on which we operate already exists.
Servicemen and women like yourself are out there doing all
the work they're doing. We don't have to create that.
(16:11):
We can come in and help them do what they're doing even better.
So that infrastructure exists. So making sure we take this
what's still a new model of providing private assistance in
support of national security objectives, that new model
becoming just the way America operates, that is essential to
America's future. Because without that, we're
going to be 1 armed fighter and we're not going to be able to
(16:34):
prevail against the adversaries who represent a very dark and
aggressive view of human libertyand dignity.
That's one lesson. Another is answering why not
confusing motion with progress. So it is a harder question to
answer than it seems. So being clear on the why is
extraordinarily important in anyendeavor.
It's especially important in these complex stability
(16:56):
operations and conflict environments.
And the last one is the US welfare's personnel we've worked
with are without exception extraordinary.
But one of the challenges is thesix month rotations that are
typical now are not really adequate for teams to really be
able to have the impact there tohave.
(17:16):
It just makes it hard to get thetraction and build the
relationships that are needed. So that's a lesson outside of
what Spirit of America can impact.
We do impact it a little bit because we can provide some
continuity between teams. Zach, who you mentioned has been
with Spirit America operating the Middle East for 10 years.
It's that's a lot of continuity.I agree with you.
(17:38):
I think the continuity with the person on the ground from Spirit
of America is great. How do you manage your
expectations with some of your donors?
Through communication, by letting them know, well, here's
how we operate, here's what we can measure, here's how we're
approaching this particular problem, this particular need,
being honest and open about whatmight not work and when things
(18:00):
don't work as well as we hope tobe able to talk about that.
Many of our supporters have a business and investor
background, especially in startups and new ventures
creates a connection with understanding how Spirit of
America operates. That's really important, one
because we operate in a very entrepreneurial way because
we're always looking for new opportunities to apply our
(18:20):
resources and capability to havean impact.
Looking for opportunity is the actual definition of
entrepreneurship. One of our major supporters a
little while back said, well, tell me about the things you've
done that haven't worked. And so we talked about a few of
those things. He said, well, that's great
because if you're not doing things that don't work, you're
not trying hard enough. So it's the honesty about the
(18:42):
nature of the work that we do, the challenges of it, and
willingness to talk about what works and what doesn't that
builds the trust that is essential to a relationship with
financial supporter. Within your team, my assumption,
there's a lot of innovative ideas coming out when there's a
problem. Those on the ground come up with
innovative solutions to problems.
Or do they have the free will tokind of do what they want?
(19:05):
Well, it's a combination of those things.
At the different budget levels, there's funding that can be put
to work immediately by our personnel underground without
any further approval. What it depends on is, yeah, of
course, people who know what they're doing and to have the
right level of oversight on whatthe results are and the learning
that comes from those results, we use an approach where we
(19:25):
spend more time understanding where we're putting more
resources to work, as you would expect.
So that exists on the ground where our personnel can be very
responsive to rapid needs and put to work money that take a
civil affairs officer months to get, if it were even possible,
and our folks can operate it in hours or days.
On the larger scale initiatives,it's a much more collaborative
(19:48):
process. And what we're looking for
there, first and foremost, are opportunities for Spirit of
America to have an impact on things that matter.
We can apply that thinking to, well, yeah, this is a good thing
to do, but does it really matter?
And if we're putting hundreds ofthousands of dollars or millions
of dollars to work, it needs to matter.
(20:09):
Now, we know it might not work out, but we're going to use an
approach which mitigates the risk by being able to test, see
how it works and proceed. Which is very unlike government
contracts, by the way, which is another advantage of being
privately funded, which is we can start and stop whenever we
choose to. And that's a key part of our
flexibility. So with the focus on is this
(20:30):
going to have an impact that matters, we have a really a 360°
view of that both of the real focus is getting our best
thinking together on is this proposed initiative going to
have an impact that matters. That is great.
Thanks for explaining that. I really like how you highlight
it being privately funded and gives you that flexibility.
(20:51):
You're not tied to the government, even though you're
supporting the government. During the Afghanistan
evacuation crisis, there were still contractors executing US
contracts to build facilities. At the same time, others who are
like, evacuating them doesn't make sense, but what does?
If you're the contractors where you have a contract, you have to
fulfill it. So having that flexibility to
(21:13):
start and stop to test at a small scale up is a very
entrepreneurial approach. It works domestically in our
economy. That kind of entrepreneurial
approach has given America the most dynamic and successful
economy in the history of the world.
So we're taking that same kind of approach to support national
security and it works for the same reasons.
(21:36):
That's great. So what is one of the key
takeaways that you hope our audience can remember from our
conversation about Spirit of America?
Well, people want to check out what we're doing at
spiritofamerica.org. If you're serving, reach out to
see if you're working on something we can help with.
That is what we're here for. If you're not currently serving,
(21:56):
get involved. See if there's a project that
you want to support and have an impact somewhere in the world.
What we offer our financial supporters through the same
mechanism by visiting our site at it's spiritofamerica.org is
you can apply funds, whatever you're comfortable with of
course, and be able to reach around the world and have a
direct impact on something that matters in support of US
(22:18):
personnel on the work they're trying to accomplish and more
broadly in support of America's national security.
So please get with us whether you're serving or not.
The whole thing that we need to do, not just as an organization
but as America, is to get more Americans in the game on the
field, helping to stand up for what America stands for.
(22:38):
Jim, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this
conversation and thank you for joining us.
Yeah, it's been great to be withyou.
I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you
today. Thanks for listening.
If you get a chance, please likeand subscribe and rate the show
on your favorite podcast platform.
Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an
episode, e-mail us at californiapodcasting@gmail.com.
(23:02):
I'll have the e-mail and California Association website
in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to
those currently out in the fieldworking with a partner nation's
people or leadership to forward US relations, thank you all for
what you're doing. This is Jack, your host.
Stay tuned for more great episodes one CA podcast.
Welcome to the One CA Podcast. I'm your host, Assad Raza, and
today we're honored to have a special guest, Jim Hake, the
founder and CEO of Spirit of America.
Jim, thanks for being here. Assad, it's real.
Honored to be with you all. Civil Affairs actually inspired
the idea for Spirit of America more than 20 years ago, so it's
great to be with you. Oh, thank you.
(00:22):
For those that that are not familiar with Spirit of America,
can you explain the mission and the focus?
Sure. Spirit of America is a privately
funded 5O1C3 nonprofit. We work alongside U.S. troops,
State Department personnel serving all over the world, and
provide private assistance in support of their missions.
We support their safety and success and, more broadly, we
(00:44):
provide assistance to support national security objectives.
Perfect. So how did the organization get
started? I know you talked a little bit
about Civil Affairs 20 years ago.
My assumption is that the organization stood up post 911.
Yeah, When the attacks of 9/11 occurred, my entire career up to
that point had been as a in the tech industry and as an
(01:05):
entrepreneur. I'd started one of the early
Internet media companies. I was working on an Internet
software company at the time, had no military or government or
foreign assistance experience atall.
But I did have a deep belief that the idea of America is the
world's best idea. And after the attacks of 911, I
understood those attacks more onour values and ideals than on
(01:27):
our territory, as horrific as the attacks on our territory
were, of course. So I wanted to do something to
help. And you know, I've been through
enough as an entrepreneur, the ups and downs of the American
dream and let's call it to have a pretty good understanding of
the difference between motion and progress.
I wanted to do something would actually make a meaningful
contribution. And it was learning about the
(01:47):
efforts of Army Special Forces team engaged in civil affairs
activities in Afghanistan that it ultimately inspired the idea
for Spirit of America. Oh, that's great.
Remember seeing the 60 Minutes episode on the teams in
Afghanistan doing civil affairs activities and that really
motivated me to want to become acivil affairs officer.
So yeah, I can see trying to usehumanitarian assistance, civil
(02:10):
affairs type activities to support US objectives.
Can, you know, motivate someone to want to do something like
this? So can you explain some of the
current regions or country that your organization is currently
active in right now? Sure.
We are active in Taiwan, Ukraine, West Africa, coastal
West Africa and Benin, specifically in Lebanon, in
(02:31):
Iraqi Kurdistan and about a dozen other countries with small
scale efforts. And the the simple idea behind
what we do is we communicate directly with, you know, they
could be an ambassador, could bea foreign service officer and
many civil affairs personnel. And we start with a very simple
question, which is what are you trying to accomplish and how can
we help? For many of the folks we talked
(02:52):
to, it sounds too good to be true that somebody actually
wants to help support the mission with no strings
attached. Before we started told you, I
had worked with Zach Bazzi on the certain problem set between
2015 to 2019. And it's funny, at that time,
U.S. forces were also losing funding and part of America was
really supportive and really useful in trying to meet some of
those immediate needs on the ground that really supported our
(03:12):
objectives. So yeah, I really appreciate how
you guys do that. Yeah, it's about filling the
gaps between what needs to be done to support US interests, to
support the success of teams like the ones you've served on,
and what government can do. Government can't do everything.
And when you can bring in the power of the American people and
power of American assistance in the private sector in support of
(03:34):
what servicemen and women like you were trying to accomplish,
it has a really powerful effect.So in but in right now, of
course, the the counterterrorismfight in Africa a little more
broadly is a little bit off the radar.
The attention focused on the Middle East with Iran and then
Ukraine. But it's extremely important
work and we maintain relationships and engagements
(03:55):
even when things aren't on the front page of the newspaper as
it were. So in Benin, we've been working
with civil affairs with Sock Africa personnel as well as the
Benin these military up in the northern part of Benin to build
a resilience and connect the local populations in northern
Benin with the bed in these military to be able to improve
security and stability in that area.
(04:16):
So we help the bed in these military and the local
communities form community councils to communicate needs to
the bed in these military of things like education or health
care or livestock vaccination. And we provided the assistance
to get all that going, and we funded veterinary and health
assistance. But it's all done not just to
(04:38):
have the immediate effect, but to improve security by
connecting the Beninese with local communities in the north,
to make them more resilient and resistant and help protect them
against the terrorist groups that are operating up there.
Wow, that is great. It's funny because it sounds
exactly like what Civil Affairs does well.
It is. Yeah, that is great.
So working in areas like that that don't have a big U.S.
(04:58):
military presence, what are someof the operational challenges
that you see your teams facing? Well, there are a number of
challenges, as you know, and you're one of the biggest ones
is can operate in areas with appropriate levels of security.
And we've been able to do that through our unique relationship
with both the US military and byextension our military's
partner, in this case, the Betanese military.
(05:20):
So I should note that as a privately funded organization,
Spirit America has broken groundin terms of the military's
ability to collaborate with a private organization like ours.
Should also note everything I'm talking about is 100% legal,
approved, and so forth, and it does involve private assistance.
Not we're not a government contractor.
We have a unique agreement with the Department of Defense that
(05:42):
allows military personnel to communicate with us, to
collaborate, identify needs, receive and distribute
assistance and provide logistical support, all with the
discretion of military teams andcommands.
So in the case of Benin, we havehad site visits and spent time
in the northern areas both with US personnel and with Beninese
(06:02):
military. And the Beninese military trust
us as much as the US military personnel do, largely because of
our relationship with the US military.
So operating in ways that are, you know, common sense secure is
extremely important for us. And the key to our ability to
have an impact is our flexibility.
And we operate entirely in the non lethal domain, but we can
(06:24):
provide everything from SecurityAssistance to more humanitarian
economic assistance, the sorts that are are more conventionally
associated with a civil affairs.So being able to spam that
spectrum and be flexible to do what's needed and provide
combination of assistance, some of which might be Security
Assistance for the beneties military, you know, radios for
example, so they can improve their communication to funding
(06:46):
for projects that allow them to build their relationships with
the local population. It is the whole package of
assistance that is solution oriented.
And one of the challenges of course is while figuring out
what needs to be done. And you're back to my comment
about not confusing motion with progress.
It's pretty easy to you'll gaugein motion.
(07:06):
It's much harder to actually have an effect and an impact.
And in the domains which you've operated in that we operate in,
it's, you know, much harder to have a lasting meaningful impact
than it is to do something that can be made to look good.
And that's just one of the challenges to make sure that
working with private philanthropic support, our most
(07:27):
important supporters are successful entrepreneurs and
investors and they expect and want, rightly so, a return on
their investment. So they're not interested in
motion, they're interested in progress.
So the work that we need to do to make sure that we're steward
of that support and that we're actually having a real return on
investment, it's hard work, as you know.
(07:49):
Absolutely. It's really hard working being a
green suitor, being a civil affairs officer at the times.
It was kind of challenging you. How do you measure progress
specifically when you're not there for the long term and
trying to justify a project on the ground saying, hey, this is
going to benefit this local population for the next 5 to 10
years, but there's no guarantees.
How do you measure progress fromyour standpoint?
Depends on what you're trying toachieve.
Unlike in business, which it hasthe difficult but simple idea of
(08:13):
profit loss, no such thing exists in the domain of which
we're we're talking about, of course.
So it's like what is the objective here and how are you
going to measure progress towardthat objective?
And so that varies because the objectives vary.
So I'll switch from the West Africa example to something
that's not been a civil affairs oriented, which is our work in
Ukraine. We've been active in Ukraine
since 2014. So one of the things we did
(08:36):
early on was provided the support need to start up
Ukraine's first armed forces radio station.
It's called Army FM, and both the Ukrainians as well as the US
embassy, everyone on the US sideand Ukrainian side saw the
problem of Russian propaganda targeted at Ukrainian soldiers
fighting in the east in the Donbas.
The Russians were eventually trying to get the Ukrainians to
(08:57):
give up and go home, in which case it would be game over.
So there were Ukrainians who hadthe idea for this radio station
to be able to meet the information and entertainment
needs of Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines.
We thought it was a great idea and we said, well, let's provide
the support to test that idea tosee if it works.
But we did that with transmitters, studio equipment
so they could create programmingthat would be broadcast into the
(09:19):
Dome bus. It was an immediate and
extraordinary success. We had planned on providing more
support to scale it up once it was proven the Ukrainian armed
forces said we've got it from here.
And so we didn't have to put anymore Spirit of America funding
into that. The Ukrainians took it and ran
with it. And that station has been
operating ever since 2015 in support of the current conflict.
(09:40):
So the measure there was ultimately, are people going to
listen to it, right. I, if you have radio station, of
course, doesn't matter if peopledon't listen to it.
So back in 2016, we drove aroundthe Dome boss and stopped in,
you know, unannounced on different forward points for the
Ukrainian military and would drive into a dining hall or so
forth. And it would be playing and
(10:01):
people listening to it. There would be radios, cell
phones, people listening to the station.
So that was a pretty good measure there of wow, is this
working? Of course, the the information
battle is a never ending one, especially with an adversary
like Russia. So it's not like you do that.
You say we're done, that's it. We won.
It takes constant effort. And since the whole scale
invasion, we provided nearly $100 million of non lethal
(10:25):
assistance in various forms to Ukraine's frontline troops.
Much of that has been in supportof Ukrainian special operations
forces, with things from surveillance drones to thermal
mitigation gear, a range of assistance that's had a profound
effect at Ukraine's ability to defend their freedom and
democracy. I follow Pauline Denny on
(10:47):
LinkedIn and I also follow Spread America on Facebook and I
see all that which is great. I did not know anything about
the drones and some of the othernon lethal assistance you're
providing to their special operation troops.
Can you expand a little bit about Taiwan and some of the
civilian organizations you're working with there, because I
think this will be unique for listeners.
In Taiwan, as we do anywhere, westart off with understanding
(11:09):
what is the real objective here and how can we support it,
because it's easy to do good things, It's a lot harder to do
important things. Where we're trying to focus our
resources is on important things.
So in the case of Taiwan, the overall goal was help Taiwan
maintain its democracy, its freedom, and its friendship and
(11:31):
partnership with the United States of America.
So that's the overarching goal. And our task has been, well, how
do we contribute to that in a meaningful way?
Again, by filling gaps and doingwhat needs to be done.
But government is not doing. And one of the main efforts
there over the last three years has been to support Taiwan civil
society in preparedness, emergency response capabilities
(11:53):
and increasing civilian resilience to hopefully deter
any kind of military invasion. And if there is one, to be able
to respond to that and hang in there long enough for help to
arrive. And so we worked with a number
of civil society organizations that are training civilians.
We've provided support. So one organization, Forward
(12:14):
Alliance, has trained more than 20,000 Taiwanese and 1st
responders skills as well as we've been the catalyst that has
connected those civil society groups with Taiwan's government
and official first responders. So part of that has been working
with the Taiwanese National FireAgency to get these civilian
(12:34):
groups. We've helped get going connected
with the fire agency and fire departments at a local level
because it's not very helpful ifthe civilian groups aren't
connected with the official responders to be able to have a
joint common effort in the eventof some contingency.
Our last job in the military wastraining Central and South
American officers and trying to plan for natural or man made
disasters similar to what you'retalking about in trying to bring
(12:57):
in other agencies, fire department, EMS, because the
culture within some of these other partner nations is that
everything's silos and they kindof plan and train individually
and never kind of bring everybody together.
So trying to bridge that gap is a civil affairs officer and
trying to bring everybody together.
I hate this how you're going to plan for natural disaster, which
can also translate into a man made disaster too.
(13:18):
A. 100%, and helping to avoid the silos of excellence.
Yeah, it's just a natural thing in business, government,
military, wherever you go. And since we are outside the
system but very well integrated with it, we can talk to anyone
at any time and it doesn't violate the the chain of
commander chain of communication.
So we can talk to you on the US military side, a staff Sergeant
(13:41):
one day in a flag officer, the next civilian as well, an
ambassador, a foreign service officer, a public affairs
officer. And same thing in Taiwan.
And we have enough of a track record that people trust and
understand where we're coming from, that we are genuinely
there to help and support their efforts.
And by having the flexibility totalk to anyone at any time, we
can connect the dots much more quickly than if we belong
(14:03):
somewhere inside the government or military system.
Yeah, What are some lessons learned as the priorities for
USG has shifted? I'll start with a big picture
observation. Or adversaries who are not
constrained by democracy, the rule of law, who can command all
instruments of their national power.
Russia and China can direct anybody to do anything they
want. Well, that's not the nature of
(14:25):
the American system, of course. So up against those adversaries,
when we're only using what government can do, it's like
we're fighting with one arm tiedbehind our back.
It's a simple way to think aboutit and very accurate, but it's a
profound point. And when you think about what it
means to be fighting with an armtied behind your back, well,
that's not going to go very well.
(14:45):
That's an unlikely way to win. And leads you to basically be
playing defense. Spirit of America, bringing in
the old private assistances, it's like bringing the other arm
into the fight. And it's not just that you can
throw twice as many punches as it were.
It changes everything. It changes what is possible for
you to win that battle, to win that fight.
And so Spirit of America with private assistance brings in
(15:07):
that other arm. And we're just getting started
with what that can mean in termsof helping to achieve national
security objectives. When we come in with a civil
affairs team or a military commander, an ambassador, we
change what is possible. So if you're not civil affairs
officer on the ground, you are 100% understandably focused on
doing what you think you can do with the resources you have.
(15:30):
I mean, it's irrational to do otherwise.
What we come in with different resources and a level of
flexibility that civil affairs teams, that government personnel
more broadly have never conceived of before because it
hasn't been possible. And so we look at, OK, what are
you trying to accomplish or we can do almost anything again,
the non lethal space of course to support that mission.
(15:50):
And it does change what is possible in terms of solving the
most intractable problem. So one lesson since I started
the organization is we have a capability that can be scaled up
because the infrastructure on which we operate already exists.
Servicemen and women like yourself are out there doing all
the work they're doing. We don't have to create that.
(16:11):
We can come in and help them do what they're doing even better.
So that infrastructure exists. So making sure we take this
what's still a new model of providing private assistance in
support of national security objectives, that new model
becoming just the way America operates, that is essential to
America's future. Because without that, we're
going to be 1 armed fighter and we're not going to be able to
(16:34):
prevail against the adversaries who represent a very dark and
aggressive view of human libertyand dignity.
That's one lesson. Another is answering why not
confusing motion with progress. So it is a harder question to
answer than it seems. So being clear on the why is
extraordinarily important in anyendeavor.
It's especially important in these complex stability
(16:56):
operations and conflict environments.
And the last one is the US welfare's personnel we've worked
with are without exception extraordinary.
But one of the challenges is thesix month rotations that are
typical now are not really adequate for teams to really be
able to have the impact there tohave.
(17:16):
It just makes it hard to get thetraction and build the
relationships that are needed. So that's a lesson outside of
what Spirit of America can impact.
We do impact it a little bit because we can provide some
continuity between teams. Zach, who you mentioned has been
with Spirit America operating the Middle East for 10 years.
It's that's a lot of continuity.I agree with you.
(17:38):
I think the continuity with the person on the ground from Spirit
of America is great. How do you manage your
expectations with some of your donors?
Through communication, by letting them know, well, here's
how we operate, here's what we can measure, here's how we're
approaching this particular problem, this particular need,
being honest and open about whatmight not work and when things
(18:00):
don't work as well as we hope tobe able to talk about that.
Many of our supporters have a business and investor
background, especially in startups and new ventures
creates a connection with understanding how Spirit of
America operates. That's really important, one
because we operate in a very entrepreneurial way because
we're always looking for new opportunities to apply our
(18:20):
resources and capability to havean impact.
Looking for opportunity is the actual definition of
entrepreneurship. One of our major supporters a
little while back said, well, tell me about the things you've
done that haven't worked. And so we talked about a few of
those things. He said, well, that's great
because if you're not doing things that don't work, you're
not trying hard enough. So it's the honesty about the
(18:42):
nature of the work that we do, the challenges of it, and
willingness to talk about what works and what doesn't that
builds the trust that is essential to a relationship with
financial supporter. Within your team, my assumption,
there's a lot of innovative ideas coming out when there's a
problem. Those on the ground come up with
innovative solutions to problems.
Or do they have the free will tokind of do what they want?
(19:05):
Well, it's a combination of those things.
At the different budget levels, there's funding that can be put
to work immediately by our personnel underground without
any further approval. What it depends on is, yeah, of
course, people who know what they're doing and to have the
right level of oversight on whatthe results are and the learning
that comes from those results, we use an approach where we
(19:25):
spend more time understanding where we're putting more
resources to work, as you would expect.
So that exists on the ground where our personnel can be very
responsive to rapid needs and put to work money that take a
civil affairs officer months to get, if it were even possible,
and our folks can operate it in hours or days.
On the larger scale initiatives,it's a much more collaborative
(19:48):
process. And what we're looking for
there, first and foremost, are opportunities for Spirit of
America to have an impact on things that matter.
We can apply that thinking to, well, yeah, this is a good thing
to do, but does it really matter?
And if we're putting hundreds ofthousands of dollars or millions
of dollars to work, it needs to matter.
(20:09):
Now, we know it might not work out, but we're going to use an
approach which mitigates the risk by being able to test, see
how it works and proceed. Which is very unlike government
contracts, by the way, which is another advantage of being
privately funded, which is we can start and stop whenever we
choose to. And that's a key part of our
flexibility. So with the focus on is this
(20:30):
going to have an impact that matters, we have a really a 360°
view of that both of the real focus is getting our best
thinking together on is this proposed initiative going to
have an impact that matters. That is great.
Thanks for explaining that. I really like how you highlight
it being privately funded and gives you that flexibility.
(20:51):
You're not tied to the government, even though you're
supporting the government. During the Afghanistan
evacuation crisis, there were still contractors executing US
contracts to build facilities. At the same time, others who are
like, evacuating them doesn't make sense, but what does?
If you're the contractors where you have a contract, you have to
fulfill it. So having that flexibility to
(21:13):
start and stop to test at a small scale up is a very
entrepreneurial approach. It works domestically in our
economy. That kind of entrepreneurial
approach has given America the most dynamic and successful
economy in the history of the world.
So we're taking that same kind of approach to support national
security and it works for the same reasons.
(21:36):
That's great. So what is one of the key
takeaways that you hope our audience can remember from our
conversation about Spirit of America?
Well, people want to check out what we're doing at
spiritofamerica.org. If you're serving, reach out to
see if you're working on something we can help with.
That is what we're here for. If you're not currently serving,
(21:56):
get involved. See if there's a project that
you want to support and have an impact somewhere in the world.
What we offer our financial supporters through the same
mechanism by visiting our site at it's spiritofamerica.org is
you can apply funds, whatever you're comfortable with of
course, and be able to reach around the world and have a
direct impact on something that matters in support of US
(22:18):
personnel on the work they're trying to accomplish and more
broadly in support of America's national security.
So please get with us whether you're serving or not.
The whole thing that we need to do, not just as an organization
but as America, is to get more Americans in the game on the
field, helping to stand up for what America stands for.
(22:38):
Jim, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this
conversation and thank you for joining us.
Yeah, it's been great to be withyou.
I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you
today. Thanks for listening.
If you get a chance, please likeand subscribe and rate the show
on your favorite podcast platform.
Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an
episode, e-mail us at californiapodcasting@gmail.com.
(23:02):
I'll have the e-mail and California Association website
in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to
those currently out in the fieldworking with a partner nation's
people or leadership to forward US relations, thank you all for
what you're doing. This is Jack, your host.
Stay tuned for more great episodes one CA podcast.
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