In this episode of the One CA Podcast, host Danny Joseph sits down with Navy EOD Commander Brad Penely to explore the evolving face of warfare—from mine countermeasures in the Strait of Hormuz to cruise missile defense in the Red Sea and joint ops in South America.
Brad shares firsthand insights from Syria, Iran, and beyond, while unpacking the future of small-unit operations, drone warfare, and the power of disruptive thinking.
But this isn’t just about tactics. Brad dives deep into the emotional and spiritual dimensions of leadership, offering hard-won advice on resilience, innovation, and the kind of mindset that thrives under pressure.
From writing white papers that change doctrine to taking cold showers that build grit, this episode is a masterclass in modern warfighting and personal growth.
🔗 Learn more about FP21: https://www.fp21.org
🎧 Visit the show page: civilaffairsassociation.com/podcast
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🏆 Ranked Top 10 Foreign Policy Podcast by Feedspot: Check it out
🎵 Music by TC Dickinson Ft. Carrera – Django (Hip Hop vs Western Instrumental): https://youtu.be/O2Cz16Kk3jA?si=pDy_knvnK8NBF3vK
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to the ONE CA podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines.
ONE CA is a product of the CivilAffairs Association and brings
in people who are current or former military diplomats,
development officers, and field agents to discuss their
experiences on ground with a partner nation's people and
leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone
interested in working the last three feet of Foreign Relations.
(00:25):
To contact the show, e-mail us at California Podcasting at
gmailcom or look US U on the Civil Affairs Association
website at WWWW Civil affairsassocorg.
I'll have those in the show notes.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is Daniel Zaya Joseph.
I'm your host for the One CA Podcast.
Thank you so much for tuning in.I'm here with a good friend of
(00:46):
mine, Commander Brad Penley, andhe is a Navy EOD who's done a
lot overseas. We'll get into his combat
experience. He's done a lot for our nation.
He's done a lot for me as a brother and a friend.
He inspired a book that I wrote called Backpack to Rucksack, and
he's one of the key pieces of wisdom that was implemented in
the book. So, Brad, thanks so much.
(01:08):
They're showing up. Thanks for having me, appreciate
it. So tell us about your
experience. I graduated from the Naval
Academy 2007, originally from Hickory, NC.
Permits out of Kandahar, one outof the far northwest on the
border of Iran. But also was managing teams in
Syria, doing partnerships from Oman, Saudi Arabia, up in
(01:30):
Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, all those countries doing mostly
containment for Iran, especiallyback in 2012 when they said they
were going to mine the Straits of Hormuz.
My team is my countermeasures company out of there to prevent
that or go diffuse the mines that were in the water went back
again in 2018 and that's when the Syrian civil war was going
(01:52):
on. So I had teams operating out of
there. That was also when the Houthis
were shooting cruise missiles atships going up and down the Red
Sea. So I had teams responding to
that and then I got to do 1 deployment on an aircraft
carrier down around South America, working with the
Chilean Special Forces and Brazilian Special Forces prior
to the 2016 Olympics. My parents are from Iraq, and
(02:14):
given their stories, and they told me a lot about the
geopolitical tensions in the area and how quickly they could
ignite. But you've been down there in
the trenches, so it's cool to see that you've been the boots
on the ground. You've been in there disarming
weapons with your hands, and yetyou know the bigger picture
simultaneously. Yeah, I think it's really
important to know the bigger picture, especially if you're
going to go down range, especially if you're going to be
(02:35):
boots on ground. That's one of the most important
things to motivate our next generation and what the next
generation battlefield. They want to know why?
Why are they sacrificing, why are they away from home?
Why are they getting sent to some place?
But going forward, I don't see major boots on the ground
operations, very tactical implementation of American
(03:00):
technology and American personnel very specialized.
I see every individual sailor becoming a more specialized tool
to be able to use on the battlefield, whether they're a
trigger puller or more. Of What we're seeing in the
Ukraine war and we're kind of prepping for a possible Taiwan
invasion is very small unit conducting drone attacks or very
(03:27):
irregular warfare. In Ukraine.
We're seeing dudes with shoulderpropelled rockets and missiles
literally going to the woods on electric mountain bikes.
That's freaking awesome. And they're able to take out a
tank or tank division or aircraft, and that's a whole new
level of warfare is happening right now before our eyes.
(03:49):
And then when we were talking civil affairs, the access and
placement of where those small teams can operate in is huge.
So that's kind of the future of where warfare combat's going,
has been able to allow that access and placement usually for
targeting Intel collection and then conducts pretty impressive
(04:10):
strikes in a very irregular way.As somebody who thinks outside
the box, who looks at a problem set and find solutions that
others aren't thinking about, there's a prescribed doctrine to
the military disarming a bomb. There's a very specific formula
that you follow in order to not get blown up and get yourself
hurt. So there's stringent guidelines.
Yet at the same time, you have to make remain flexible for what
(04:31):
could come down the pipe and staying agile and being able to
Juke left to right if something's coming at you.
So in a strategic manner, what'syour mindset and advice to young
folks joining the military on look at the past and honor what
we've learned through tradition or what other people have paid
in blood to learn. But at the same time, understand
that the future isn't going to look exactly like that.
How do you balance the 2? We should move fast and break
(04:54):
things. We absolutely have to be more
disruptive than the enemy and usually that comes in a time of
pressure. That's what we've seen in
Ukraine. They're so pressurized.
They're under resourced under man.
They have to use something different.
So they have to evolve and we'rewatching it evolve, but we're
not really taking place in it. But the most successful people
(05:16):
I've seen in the military have taken a new concept, have been
told no, and then have done it anyways, a great success.
And you take a lump or two and then you write a one or two page
white paper and you send it up the chain and man, that flies.
You say, yes, I understand what I was doing.
Yes, I understand you told me not to do it.
But here was the overwhelming positive impact of me doing
(05:38):
that. And then they're like, oh, OK,
That happened once to me in in 2012 when Iran said they were
going to mine the Strait of Hormuz.
I was out on a mine countermeasures company,
underwater explosive ordinance disposal, and we had these new
underwater remotely operated vehicles with a long tether.
These things could go down like hundreds of feet.
(06:01):
We're normally a diver can only go down very limited amount of
depth for very limited amount oftime, very constrained by either
hot water or cold water and the human ability to do that.
But a robot could stay down there for a long time as long as
the power source was going. I had more ability to swim in a
current faster than a diver could an amazing sonar on it.
(06:22):
So I could see underwater objects with this a lot better
than a diver's eyes or the handheld sonar as we had at the
time. So I used this ROV in a
minefield. Well, doctrinally, you're not
supposed to use anything metallic in a minefield because
it could set the mines off. And so somebody yelled at me for
using this robot. And I was like that robot, if I
blow it up in a minefield, OK, it did its job.
(06:44):
We know there's mines there, or I find it and we can go around
it. But I kept people out of the
minefield. And then as soon as I got yelled
at for doing it, I said, OK, great.
Wrote a white paper, sent it up and now we have these RO VS
across the force to be able to do mine countermeasure stuff or
(07:05):
anti terrorism force protection,diving, peer searches, bottom
searches, like pretty ubiquitoustechnology that we can use.
It wasn't meant to go into minefield but my team reused it
to go do that. Very similar with the drones
that we're seeing now or AI capabilities that we're seeing
now. How can we use this to the best
abilities? And let me tell you, young
(07:27):
people O fours and above don't really know what AI is.
We don't know the power of it. We don't know how to utilize it.
We don't know how to collect data like some of the younger
generation does and put a weaponize that data and be able
to make an impact. That's where you're going to
have to lead up. You are the subject matter
expert. You are going to have to tell
your higher ups how it should bedone in a modern battle space.
(07:51):
And the hardest thing to do, don't complain.
Write a one or two page white paper.
It's crazy. Technology companies do this all
the time. Amazon does this all the time.
Jeff Bezos got started on four page white papers.
You want something new? Cool, come in your boardroom,
give me a four page white paper.Talk about it.
We'll argue it. And then boy, to say yeah, and
what you want to do, how you want to move out, how that's
(08:13):
going to affect the battle space, and then have the guts to
push it up the chain of command.If you get shot down by 1, dude,
guess what? Go around them, move, adapt.
Same thing. Don't just stay in a corner, get
punched by your chain of command.
If you have a great idea, move it up, showcase it.
If you have something cool, put it on YouTube.
Don't wear your uniform while you're doing it.
But like, hey, this is a capability we could do and see
(08:33):
what kind of attention it. Attracts you'd be.
Surprised at what kind of traction you can get.
And I automatically started thinking about jujitsu.
I know you and I both love that sport and the innovation between
coaches and black belts who havebattled out with each other for
decades and know each other really well.
To talk about micro evolutions and how they attack each other,
how they submit each other. And it's always just this
(08:54):
constant pushing the envelope ofdoing something someone didn't
expect to work, breaking the rules, and then innovating a
brand new move. And I see that synergy with
warfare and that mindfulness of entering into something, knowing
that, hey, there's solutions here that my opponent isn't
aware of and I'm going to find them.
I'm going to stay positive. I'm not going to despair.
(09:15):
I'm not going to get angry and pissed off.
I'm going to think outside the box.
What can I do to my liking to fix this?
And then what's cool is you teach someone else that you pass
that knowledge along. You make the whole organization
smarter. And so I just love hearing that
because that inspires me to justcontinually think outside the
box and fight my own desire to kind of sit there and just throw
(09:37):
a fit. Like, oh man, this sucks.
Yes, it sucks. OK, cool.
How do we make it not suck and then push that forward?
When I was going through a hard time, or I was trying to push
that rock up the hill and was getting told no, or getting told
I'm an idiot or getting told it's never going to work.
I had these people that were outside of the ecosystem that
could speak life into me, that could hold me up when I was
(09:59):
feeling just dead tired or dragged down by the bureaucracy
or dragged down by insults or dragged down by other people's
negativity. So those are the kind of people
each and every person needs, whether you're in the military
or not in the military. And it's one thing you should
seek out first. Find some people you can
(10:20):
coalesce with on a very deep, very emotional, mental level to
help you get through the next challenge that you're going to
have. The most capable entrepreneurs,
the most capable businessman, the most capable military
leaders, and most capable doctors, the lawyers, anybody
who's good at their trade have this.
(10:40):
So if you want to go solve big problems, get other people
around you who love you enough to tell you when you're wrong,
but also love you enough to say don't listen to the haters and
keep pushing. So it's not just an echo Chamber
of complaints or negativity or whatever it is, because in the
military we tend to do that whenwe get together and guys have
drinks together and next we're talking about work.
(11:01):
There's this kind of cool mash up between having a heart and
being tender as a warrior and loving people at the same time.
Being a tactician, staying hard in your craft, pushing yourself
to be out of your comfort zone. And I think all of this is kind
of blanketed with authenticity, having a leader who is able to
stay driven and stay on edge, but at the same time reach out
(11:23):
the hand to those behind them who are hurting.
You can't just be a tactician. There are going to be human
entities that are involved that you are going to have to care
for on a spiritual, an emotional, a mental, and a
physical level. That's as a leader.
But since everyone's a leader inthe small units, like you're
going to have to take care of each other on those facets and
(11:47):
on those levels. So I'm glad there's major
podcasters out there that are talking about not just a
physical capability. They're really tapping into
mental acuity, emotional resilience, and really seen a
flood of spiritual resilience. The next level of combat is just
going to take the next level of leader, which we we've always
(12:09):
kind of had those kind of peoplethat are adapting to that.
I think we're seeing the force grow in that way right now and
which is really impressive. I think we're definitely seeing
a lot of smart young people touring the military.
And I think just for my short time as a platoon leader in the
Army, gone are the days of pulling the wool over anybody's
eyes because they have Open Access to the Internet and they
(12:30):
can have so many more objective perspectives on what they're
going through. So a leader can't just step in
and say this is how it is. And what's so cool about the
Internet is you're able to objectively assess that.
During the Israel, Iran conflict, the amount of of Intel
collection and how fast it was out videos of impact zones,
(12:51):
videos being pushed out by the operators themselves in these
different areas was unbelievablein a so much faster than was
hitting the network news. And then who owns that
information and who gets it out fast In this next generation
warfare was going to be the victor.
So our force has to be able to consume just that large amount
of data and stockpile. We're really having to get to
(13:13):
the point of deciphering and especially deciphering what is
real from what is fake. That's why a lot of times I'll
watch something on YouTube sources that I've already
verified or I see is trustworthy.
Then I go to the news outlets tosee if they're reporting on it
yet to get some like verification of the information
that's coming in. But it is an onslaught of
(13:33):
information warfare that's goingon.
So we have to be able to fight with the most high end
supercomputers and be able to fight with rocks and sticks, and
we need everything in between and somehow train all of our war
fighters to go from the rocks and sticks to the technology and
back within a very short space. Yeah, And without getting too
much general, because we're coming to a wrap, but just with
(13:54):
electronic warfare with the Empsand disabling technology and
they teach us this in the Army. Hey, know how to work a compass,
understand land NAV, terrain associate.
Don't think just because we havetechnology that you're going to
be the soldier who can walk on the battlefield and walk off
without knowing the very basics that go back hundreds of years,
thousands of years. And so it's just a stark
(14:15):
reminder for us to understand technology, how to wield it, how
to work through it. Like you said, decipher.
It is such a great word to use for that.
But also at the same time, go back to our fundamental roots as
war fighters, from fitness to mindset to the basics of land
NAV and survival out in the field.
And this is a reminder to myselfto not grow too soft in my
(14:36):
comfort. You don't have this apartment on
the beach. And it's so easy for me to just
be happy in my little bubble. But the second things go
sideways, do I have that mindsetto rise up and not just for
myself? Do I have the volition inside of
me that others would see and say, hey, I'll follow that guy
because that's that's a deep question as a leader.
I get this question a lot from people that are trying to go
Navy Special Warfare, trying to go EOD.
(14:58):
They always ask me like, you know, what kind of workout
should I be doing? I was like, I usually look at
them like you're probably prettyfit right now, but I want you to
for the next 30 days, take a cold shower.
Every time you have to take a shower, you take a cold shower.
If you do that and you complete it, call me back.
I'll introduce you to anybody you want to get introduced to
optimize your workouts for you. I'll work out with you like
(15:18):
whatever you want. You know how many phone calls I
get back? Very few.
Because that battle of you look at the the knob on the shower
and you go, one is comfortable and easy, one is not.
That is one of the hardest things you'll have to do in the
military and just be comfortablewith suffering, which is also
when you're looking for a spousewho can suffer with you and who
(15:40):
can you suffer with. As we go into a very perilous
world, there is hope, man. There's so much hope, but be
able to suffer through it, whether that's the technological
slog, the mental slog, the emotional slog, spiritual slog
that you're going to have to fight through information.
There's going to be a mass amount of that as warfare
developed, so choose something to suffer a little bit every day
(16:03):
and then if you have to do it incombat, it won't suck me as bad.
And the, the shared suffering is, is what brings us together.
It's what creates that familial bond.
But just think about as you're saying that about my platoon and
what not. They've seen me in my bad times
when I'm Moody and tired and cold or hot, whatever.
And I'm just not the happiest person to be around.
But what's cool is they got to see that.
And I got to tell them, this isn't you, it's me, this isn't
(16:24):
me issues. But thank you for being
alongside me that just felt for them.
And it's cool to know that you can embrace suffering with
others and grow through that. So they'll they'll be a lot of
that in the future. The world, our lives are not
short of suffering. The question is, do you have
people around you who again, love you enough to stick it out
with you, Call it like it is, give you the truth.
But as iron sharpens iron, they'll help you mold yourself
(16:47):
through that suffering and come out stronger on the other side.
For sure. Well, we'll end it up.
What's your piece of advice to those coming in?
To be the most resilient war fighter, there's something
called a resiliency vehicle. It's got 4 tires on it.
The four tires I've mentioned here before is physical, mental,
emotional, and spiritual. If any one of those tires gets
(17:10):
deflated at any point in time, you run the risk of running off
the road. You have to put equal amount of
time into your spiritual development, into your emotional
development, into your mental development as you do deadlifts
at the gym. And if I would have known that
earlier in my career, I wouldn'thave had a massive crisis in my
(17:32):
own bad decisions in my personallife that then affected
everything, affected work, affected all that.
But if you don't know your purpose and you don't know why
you're alive, then you really have no meaning.
You have no reason to charge up that machine gun.
He'll have no reason to defeat that enemy.
Besides, somebody's telling you to OK, pretty poor reason to
(17:54):
die, right? So find your reason, find your
purpose, and then through that man, the rest of it is just
flourished. That's awesome.
Well, thanks for being part of the show.
Hey man, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening.
If you get a chance, please likeand subscribe and rate the show
on your favorite podcast platform.
Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an
(18:15):
episode, e-mail us at ca.podcasting@gmail.com.
I'll have the e-mail and California Association website
in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to
those currently out in the field, working with a partner
nation's people or leadership toforward US relations, thank you
all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host.
(18:36):
Stay tuned for more great episodes. 1 California podcast.
Welcome to the ONE CA podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines.
ONE CA is a product of the CivilAffairs Association and brings
in people who are current or former military diplomats,
development officers, and field agents to discuss their
experiences on ground with a partner nation's people and
leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone
interested in working the last three feet of Foreign Relations.
(00:25):
To contact the show, e-mail us at California Podcasting at
gmailcom or look US U on the Civil Affairs Association
website at WWWW Civil affairsassocorg.
I'll have those in the show notes.
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, this is Daniel Zaya Joseph.
I'm your host for the One CA Podcast.
Thank you so much for tuning in.I'm here with a good friend of
(00:46):
mine, Commander Brad Penley, andhe is a Navy EOD who's done a
lot overseas. We'll get into his combat
experience. He's done a lot for our nation.
He's done a lot for me as a brother and a friend.
He inspired a book that I wrote called Backpack to Rucksack, and
he's one of the key pieces of wisdom that was implemented in
the book. So, Brad, thanks so much.
(01:08):
They're showing up. Thanks for having me, appreciate
it. So tell us about your
experience. I graduated from the Naval
Academy 2007, originally from Hickory, NC.
Permits out of Kandahar, one outof the far northwest on the
border of Iran. But also was managing teams in
Syria, doing partnerships from Oman, Saudi Arabia, up in
(01:30):
Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, all those countries doing mostly
containment for Iran, especiallyback in 2012 when they said they
were going to mine the Straits of Hormuz.
My team is my countermeasures company out of there to prevent
that or go diffuse the mines that were in the water went back
again in 2018 and that's when the Syrian civil war was going
(01:52):
on. So I had teams operating out of
there. That was also when the Houthis
were shooting cruise missiles atships going up and down the Red
Sea. So I had teams responding to
that and then I got to do 1 deployment on an aircraft
carrier down around South America, working with the
Chilean Special Forces and Brazilian Special Forces prior
to the 2016 Olympics. My parents are from Iraq, and
(02:14):
given their stories, and they told me a lot about the
geopolitical tensions in the area and how quickly they could
ignite. But you've been down there in
the trenches, so it's cool to see that you've been the boots
on the ground. You've been in there disarming
weapons with your hands, and yetyou know the bigger picture
simultaneously. Yeah, I think it's really
important to know the bigger picture, especially if you're
going to go down range, especially if you're going to be
(02:35):
boots on ground. That's one of the most important
things to motivate our next generation and what the next
generation battlefield. They want to know why?
Why are they sacrificing, why are they away from home?
Why are they getting sent to some place?
But going forward, I don't see major boots on the ground
operations, very tactical implementation of American
(03:00):
technology and American personnel very specialized.
I see every individual sailor becoming a more specialized tool
to be able to use on the battlefield, whether they're a
trigger puller or more. Of What we're seeing in the
Ukraine war and we're kind of prepping for a possible Taiwan
invasion is very small unit conducting drone attacks or very
(03:27):
irregular warfare. In Ukraine.
We're seeing dudes with shoulderpropelled rockets and missiles
literally going to the woods on electric mountain bikes.
That's freaking awesome. And they're able to take out a
tank or tank division or aircraft, and that's a whole new
level of warfare is happening right now before our eyes.
(03:49):
And then when we were talking civil affairs, the access and
placement of where those small teams can operate in is huge.
So that's kind of the future of where warfare combat's going,
has been able to allow that access and placement usually for
targeting Intel collection and then conducts pretty impressive
(04:10):
strikes in a very irregular way.As somebody who thinks outside
the box, who looks at a problem set and find solutions that
others aren't thinking about, there's a prescribed doctrine to
the military disarming a bomb. There's a very specific formula
that you follow in order to not get blown up and get yourself
hurt. So there's stringent guidelines.
Yet at the same time, you have to make remain flexible for what
(04:31):
could come down the pipe and staying agile and being able to
Juke left to right if something's coming at you.
So in a strategic manner, what'syour mindset and advice to young
folks joining the military on look at the past and honor what
we've learned through tradition or what other people have paid
in blood to learn. But at the same time, understand
that the future isn't going to look exactly like that.
How do you balance the 2? We should move fast and break
(04:54):
things. We absolutely have to be more
disruptive than the enemy and usually that comes in a time of
pressure. That's what we've seen in
Ukraine. They're so pressurized.
They're under resourced under man.
They have to use something different.
So they have to evolve and we'rewatching it evolve, but we're
not really taking place in it. But the most successful people
(05:16):
I've seen in the military have taken a new concept, have been
told no, and then have done it anyways, a great success.
And you take a lump or two and then you write a one or two page
white paper and you send it up the chain and man, that flies.
You say, yes, I understand what I was doing.
Yes, I understand you told me not to do it.
But here was the overwhelming positive impact of me doing
(05:38):
that. And then they're like, oh, OK,
That happened once to me in in 2012 when Iran said they were
going to mine the Strait of Hormuz.
I was out on a mine countermeasures company,
underwater explosive ordinance disposal, and we had these new
underwater remotely operated vehicles with a long tether.
These things could go down like hundreds of feet.
(06:01):
We're normally a diver can only go down very limited amount of
depth for very limited amount oftime, very constrained by either
hot water or cold water and the human ability to do that.
But a robot could stay down there for a long time as long as
the power source was going. I had more ability to swim in a
current faster than a diver could an amazing sonar on it.
(06:22):
So I could see underwater objects with this a lot better
than a diver's eyes or the handheld sonar as we had at the
time. So I used this ROV in a
minefield. Well, doctrinally, you're not
supposed to use anything metallic in a minefield because
it could set the mines off. And so somebody yelled at me for
using this robot. And I was like that robot, if I
blow it up in a minefield, OK, it did its job.
(06:44):
We know there's mines there, or I find it and we can go around
it. But I kept people out of the
minefield. And then as soon as I got yelled
at for doing it, I said, OK, great.
Wrote a white paper, sent it up and now we have these RO VS
across the force to be able to do mine countermeasure stuff or
(07:05):
anti terrorism force protection,diving, peer searches, bottom
searches, like pretty ubiquitoustechnology that we can use.
It wasn't meant to go into minefield but my team reused it
to go do that. Very similar with the drones
that we're seeing now or AI capabilities that we're seeing
now. How can we use this to the best
abilities? And let me tell you, young
(07:27):
people O fours and above don't really know what AI is.
We don't know the power of it. We don't know how to utilize it.
We don't know how to collect data like some of the younger
generation does and put a weaponize that data and be able
to make an impact. That's where you're going to
have to lead up. You are the subject matter
expert. You are going to have to tell
your higher ups how it should bedone in a modern battle space.
(07:51):
And the hardest thing to do, don't complain.
Write a one or two page white paper.
It's crazy. Technology companies do this all
the time. Amazon does this all the time.
Jeff Bezos got started on four page white papers.
You want something new? Cool, come in your boardroom,
give me a four page white paper.Talk about it.
We'll argue it. And then boy, to say yeah, and
what you want to do, how you want to move out, how that's
(08:13):
going to affect the battle space, and then have the guts to
push it up the chain of command.If you get shot down by 1, dude,
guess what? Go around them, move, adapt.
Same thing. Don't just stay in a corner, get
punched by your chain of command.
If you have a great idea, move it up, showcase it.
If you have something cool, put it on YouTube.
Don't wear your uniform while you're doing it.
But like, hey, this is a capability we could do and see
(08:33):
what kind of attention it. Attracts you'd be.
Surprised at what kind of traction you can get.
And I automatically started thinking about jujitsu.
I know you and I both love that sport and the innovation between
coaches and black belts who havebattled out with each other for
decades and know each other really well.
To talk about micro evolutions and how they attack each other,
how they submit each other. And it's always just this
(08:54):
constant pushing the envelope ofdoing something someone didn't
expect to work, breaking the rules, and then innovating a
brand new move. And I see that synergy with
warfare and that mindfulness of entering into something, knowing
that, hey, there's solutions here that my opponent isn't
aware of and I'm going to find them.
I'm going to stay positive. I'm not going to despair.
(09:15):
I'm not going to get angry and pissed off.
I'm going to think outside the box.
What can I do to my liking to fix this?
And then what's cool is you teach someone else that you pass
that knowledge along. You make the whole organization
smarter. And so I just love hearing that
because that inspires me to justcontinually think outside the
box and fight my own desire to kind of sit there and just throw
(09:37):
a fit. Like, oh man, this sucks.
Yes, it sucks. OK, cool.
How do we make it not suck and then push that forward?
When I was going through a hard time, or I was trying to push
that rock up the hill and was getting told no, or getting told
I'm an idiot or getting told it's never going to work.
I had these people that were outside of the ecosystem that
could speak life into me, that could hold me up when I was
(09:59):
feeling just dead tired or dragged down by the bureaucracy
or dragged down by insults or dragged down by other people's
negativity. So those are the kind of people
each and every person needs, whether you're in the military
or not in the military. And it's one thing you should
seek out first. Find some people you can
(10:20):
coalesce with on a very deep, very emotional, mental level to
help you get through the next challenge that you're going to
have. The most capable entrepreneurs,
the most capable businessman, the most capable military
leaders, and most capable doctors, the lawyers, anybody
who's good at their trade have this.
(10:40):
So if you want to go solve big problems, get other people
around you who love you enough to tell you when you're wrong,
but also love you enough to say don't listen to the haters and
keep pushing. So it's not just an echo Chamber
of complaints or negativity or whatever it is, because in the
military we tend to do that whenwe get together and guys have
drinks together and next we're talking about work.
(11:01):
There's this kind of cool mash up between having a heart and
being tender as a warrior and loving people at the same time.
Being a tactician, staying hard in your craft, pushing yourself
to be out of your comfort zone. And I think all of this is kind
of blanketed with authenticity, having a leader who is able to
stay driven and stay on edge, but at the same time reach out
(11:23):
the hand to those behind them who are hurting.
You can't just be a tactician. There are going to be human
entities that are involved that you are going to have to care
for on a spiritual, an emotional, a mental, and a
physical level. That's as a leader.
But since everyone's a leader inthe small units, like you're
going to have to take care of each other on those facets and
(11:47):
on those levels. So I'm glad there's major
podcasters out there that are talking about not just a
physical capability. They're really tapping into
mental acuity, emotional resilience, and really seen a
flood of spiritual resilience. The next level of combat is just
going to take the next level of leader, which we we've always
(12:09):
kind of had those kind of peoplethat are adapting to that.
I think we're seeing the force grow in that way right now and
which is really impressive. I think we're definitely seeing
a lot of smart young people touring the military.
And I think just for my short time as a platoon leader in the
Army, gone are the days of pulling the wool over anybody's
eyes because they have Open Access to the Internet and they
(12:30):
can have so many more objective perspectives on what they're
going through. So a leader can't just step in
and say this is how it is. And what's so cool about the
Internet is you're able to objectively assess that.
During the Israel, Iran conflict, the amount of of Intel
collection and how fast it was out videos of impact zones,
(12:51):
videos being pushed out by the operators themselves in these
different areas was unbelievablein a so much faster than was
hitting the network news. And then who owns that
information and who gets it out fast In this next generation
warfare was going to be the victor.
So our force has to be able to consume just that large amount
of data and stockpile. We're really having to get to
(13:13):
the point of deciphering and especially deciphering what is
real from what is fake. That's why a lot of times I'll
watch something on YouTube sources that I've already
verified or I see is trustworthy.
Then I go to the news outlets tosee if they're reporting on it
yet to get some like verification of the information
that's coming in. But it is an onslaught of
(13:33):
information warfare that's goingon.
So we have to be able to fight with the most high end
supercomputers and be able to fight with rocks and sticks, and
we need everything in between and somehow train all of our war
fighters to go from the rocks and sticks to the technology and
back within a very short space. Yeah, And without getting too
much general, because we're coming to a wrap, but just with
(13:54):
electronic warfare with the Empsand disabling technology and
they teach us this in the Army. Hey, know how to work a compass,
understand land NAV, terrain associate.
Don't think just because we havetechnology that you're going to
be the soldier who can walk on the battlefield and walk off
without knowing the very basics that go back hundreds of years,
thousands of years. And so it's just a stark
(14:15):
reminder for us to understand technology, how to wield it, how
to work through it. Like you said, decipher.
It is such a great word to use for that.
But also at the same time, go back to our fundamental roots as
war fighters, from fitness to mindset to the basics of land
NAV and survival out in the field.
And this is a reminder to myselfto not grow too soft in my
(14:36):
comfort. You don't have this apartment on
the beach. And it's so easy for me to just
be happy in my little bubble. But the second things go
sideways, do I have that mindsetto rise up and not just for
myself? Do I have the volition inside of
me that others would see and say, hey, I'll follow that guy
because that's that's a deep question as a leader.
I get this question a lot from people that are trying to go
Navy Special Warfare, trying to go EOD.
(14:58):
They always ask me like, you know, what kind of workout
should I be doing? I was like, I usually look at
them like you're probably prettyfit right now, but I want you to
for the next 30 days, take a cold shower.
Every time you have to take a shower, you take a cold shower.
If you do that and you complete it, call me back.
I'll introduce you to anybody you want to get introduced to
optimize your workouts for you. I'll work out with you like
(15:18):
whatever you want. You know how many phone calls I
get back? Very few.
Because that battle of you look at the the knob on the shower
and you go, one is comfortable and easy, one is not.
That is one of the hardest things you'll have to do in the
military and just be comfortablewith suffering, which is also
when you're looking for a spousewho can suffer with you and who
(15:40):
can you suffer with. As we go into a very perilous
world, there is hope, man. There's so much hope, but be
able to suffer through it, whether that's the technological
slog, the mental slog, the emotional slog, spiritual slog
that you're going to have to fight through information.
There's going to be a mass amount of that as warfare
developed, so choose something to suffer a little bit every day
(16:03):
and then if you have to do it incombat, it won't suck me as bad.
And the, the shared suffering is, is what brings us together.
It's what creates that familial bond.
But just think about as you're saying that about my platoon and
what not. They've seen me in my bad times
when I'm Moody and tired and cold or hot, whatever.
And I'm just not the happiest person to be around.
But what's cool is they got to see that.
And I got to tell them, this isn't you, it's me, this isn't
(16:24):
me issues. But thank you for being
alongside me that just felt for them.
And it's cool to know that you can embrace suffering with
others and grow through that. So they'll they'll be a lot of
that in the future. The world, our lives are not
short of suffering. The question is, do you have
people around you who again, love you enough to stick it out
with you, Call it like it is, give you the truth.
But as iron sharpens iron, they'll help you mold yourself
(16:47):
through that suffering and come out stronger on the other side.
For sure. Well, we'll end it up.
What's your piece of advice to those coming in?
To be the most resilient war fighter, there's something
called a resiliency vehicle. It's got 4 tires on it.
The four tires I've mentioned here before is physical, mental,
emotional, and spiritual. If any one of those tires gets
(17:10):
deflated at any point in time, you run the risk of running off
the road. You have to put equal amount of
time into your spiritual development, into your emotional
development, into your mental development as you do deadlifts
at the gym. And if I would have known that
earlier in my career, I wouldn'thave had a massive crisis in my
(17:32):
own bad decisions in my personallife that then affected
everything, affected work, affected all that.
But if you don't know your purpose and you don't know why
you're alive, then you really have no meaning.
You have no reason to charge up that machine gun.
He'll have no reason to defeat that enemy.
Besides, somebody's telling you to OK, pretty poor reason to
(17:54):
die, right? So find your reason, find your
purpose, and then through that man, the rest of it is just
flourished. That's awesome.
Well, thanks for being part of the show.
Hey man, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening.
If you get a chance, please likeand subscribe and rate the show
on your favorite podcast platform.
Also, if you're interested in coming on the show or hosting an
(18:15):
episode, e-mail us at ca.podcasting@gmail.com.
I'll have the e-mail and California Association website
in the show notes. And now, most importantly, to
those currently out in the field, working with a partner
nation's people or leadership toforward US relations, thank you
all for what you're doing. This is Jack, your host.
(18:36):
Stay tuned for more great episodes. 1 California podcast.
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