June 29, 2022 • 23 mins
In today’s episode, Professor Joseph Luzzi highlights eight books that can change your life. These fascinating works can help us understand our most pressing concerns today, including the nature of religious faith, questions of personal identity, even the quest for the American Dream.
Joseph Luzzi (PhD, Yale) is Professor of Comparative Literature and Faculty Member in Italian Studies at Bard College, and he taught previously at the University of Pennsylvania.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I always tell my students, don't think of literature. I
call it the broccoli argument. Don't think of it as
something that's good for you that you should do. Just
get it down, you know. It should really be something
that is. It's not easy. It takes hard work and
the barriers to entry to high the Science of Happiness,
Appreciating conderning dilemmas of modern medicine, Abraham Lincoln at the
(00:23):
Civil War, of the artistic genius Nichel Angeli, when intuition
face changed American psychology of religion. One Day University. The
most acclaimed and popular professors from top colleges. They're best lectures,
(00:45):
fascinating conversations. Hi, I'm Richard Davies. Let's learn. I'm an
advocate for literature. I think that it's important for political life.
I think it helps us. My name is Joseph leu See,
and I'm a professor of comparative literature at Bard College.
The name of the lecture is eight Books that Change
(01:06):
the World. When you think of the experience of just
scanning social media and that sense of exhaustion and wasted
time you get right after an hour of it, you
never feel that way after you read a book. I'm
gonna start with one of the wonderful things you said
in this lecture, which I just loved. Writing is an
act of generosity towards the reader. Thank you for reminding
(01:29):
me that, because in a way, I want to just
build a little bit on this idea of generosity uh
for the reader by the writer. But I think it
goes both ways. Um. I also tell my students, and
I tell the participants at Wenday University that writing and
reading are an act of collaboration. When we talk about literature,
(01:49):
I think the thing that we want to think about
it does the book doesn't. It's not like a painting, right.
If you look at a painting, it has an inherent
beauty in itself. Right. It's a physical object. You give
it meaning, but it exists as an object in the world.
The book is brought to life by the reader, and
that's why it's so different than watching television or you know,
(02:12):
you can interpret movies as well, but the book, all
the heavy lifting has to be done by the reader.
I always tell my students you're writing a book along
with the author, because if you don't actively engage with it,
it doesn't exist. It's just code on a page it
And this I think is a really amazing thing because
(02:35):
it makes it puts so much burden and responsibility on you.
Your imagination, your rational intellect, your memory, your sense of
history and culture, and you bring those all to bear
in what one great scholar, Edward said, said, an act
of erudition and sympathy. You know, when you are almost
back in the shoes of the author who wrote it.
(02:58):
Without the reader, the book is nothing. And that's why,
in a way, reading is so demanding. And that's why,
you know, uh, some of the recent statistics show that
it may be on the wane. Is that it's something
that you can't do along with other things. As Jonathan
friends and said the novelists, you can't read in multitask.
It takes up all of your energies. And I actually
(03:21):
think in this day and age, the skills that we
get from literature will become even more important than ever before.
The ability to focus and concentrate, the ability to read deeply,
to bring the text to life without succumbing to distractions.
This is an incredible challenge today right Those who can
(03:44):
do what I think are going to be you know,
will have a skill that will be very important in
this new information economy. Why because I think that books
have shown themselves to be remarkably resilient. I always tell
my students, think of a work like Augustine's Confessions. It
was written in the late three hundreds, I think like
(04:06):
three d. Some people call it like the first autobiograph,
first memoir. I mean, imagine, what else do you know
from that era. I mean, it's incredibly remote that book,
this memoir lives on. In the tell All memoir, the
Augustine was addicted in his own way to sex into
(04:29):
worldly glory. He had to overcome that. That's a story
that's told over and over again in our books today.
So the freshness in the modernity of Augustine's memoir, even
though it was written over sixteen hundred years ago, as extraordinary.
The fact that some of these books can stay alive,
it's really a miracle. Most books disappear very shortly after
(04:51):
they're published, right. The scholar at Stanford, Franco Moretti, came
up with the term the slaughterhouse of literature, you know,
to show the and the statistics are staggering. I think
it's something like only one out of every two hundred
books lives past their immediate point of publication. Why do
those few live on? And the fact that they do
(05:12):
is really remarkable. I use the word miracle because somehow
they remain relevant and vital with the passing of time,
and it's because of the reader. When they stop speaking
to the reader, they will disappear. Your lecture the eight
books that change the world, one naturally is the Bible,
(05:35):
which may have changed the world more than anything else,
no matter what you believe, right I I'd say, think
of the Bible as literature, as a collection of stories,
independent of your your faith system, and just think of
its revolutionary impact across the world. I urge you to
read the Bible. It's an incredible piece of literature. It
(05:56):
is so unusually written, it was written by many hands.
It's at once a collection, it's an anthology, it's a digest.
It's about editing, it's about translation, it's about trying to
blur the line between life and words. It's about the
sacredness of the text. A lot of modern literary criticism
(06:20):
what I do grew out of the tradition of biblical scholarship,
the exegesis, making sense of the word. You've zero in
on Genesis as an extraordinary piece of storytelling. Storytelling, I mean,
think about it. Genesis has a specific language, something along
(06:42):
the lines. And God created the earth and the heavens
and it was good, and you know, then he rested
on the seventh day. This idea, the way the sentences cascade,
the hands, you know, one following weather. We don't talk
like that. That's called in to put My professor had
on for a moment para taxis where the the sentences
don't really logically link the way we speak today with
(07:05):
normal syntax, but in that incredible form you get a
rhythm of flow and a kind of rhetoric of storytelling
that's so memorable, so rich, so unbelievable. And also think
of the characters that are created in Genesis. God is
a character. Everything that God is making is sort of
(07:26):
not turning out the way he planned, right. Genesis is origin.
Listen to this amazing passage. And the Lord saw that
the evil of the human creature was great on the earth,
and that every scheme of his heart's devising was only
perpetually evil. And the Lord regretted having made the human
(07:48):
on earth, and was grieved to the heart. And the
Lord said I will wipe out the human race I
created from the face of the earth, from human to
alt a crawling thing to the foul of heavens. For
I regret that I have made them. What a passage.
The idea of God as a character who's upset over
(08:13):
his creation. It's one of the most grounding images and
descriptions of what supposedly an untouchable, a noble, surpassingly powerful deity,
and the collection of people who wrote Genesis give us
to him. It's a hate right in all his psychologic
(08:34):
in this context, I don't know what it really is,
in all the psychological complexity. This ish image of God
grieving to the heart is to me a powerful example
of how we create character in the Bible. That's what
literature does it get, whether it's you know, a realist
(08:56):
novel from the eight hundreds or contemporary novel M Yesterday
or the Genesis. You're talking about these unbelievably rich characters,
like God, like Joseph, like Adam and Eve. I mean,
think of Adam and Eve. You know, uh, they live
in paradise, but they choose to violate the terms of
(09:18):
paradise to taste from the tree of knowledge. Why Do
they prefer a life with hardship if it means getting
to knowledge? Do they? Just? Is it just a human
tendency to not be able to resist temptation? It raises
all these incredible psychological issues and concerns that can speak
(09:40):
to you no matter what your faith is. We've been
teasing our listeners a little, so let's taste from the
tree of your lecture and mentioned that the eight books
the other book from ancient times as the Odyssey, right I.
I you know, of course, a list like this is
highly selective, highly adios and cratic, and more of a
(10:01):
gesture towards the books that have been incredibly meaningful to
me and the books that I feel have had the
lasting impact. The whole point is that I want my
eight to stimulate you. Our listeners are audience members to
make their own list of eight books. Okay, so we
got the Odyssey by Homer. Yeah, I'm not evading the questions.
(10:23):
And then and I wasn't a literary version of a
filibuster that I have the And then you jump your
fast forward to the fourteenth century with I chose Dante.
Dante is my my you know, my main man, the
person I've studied and written about, probably more than anyone. Um.
I chose Genesis because of its um incredible the impact
(10:44):
of the Bible and all cultures, all religions. I chose
the Odyssey because it's the story of the hero's return
that is as relevant today as it was when it
was written centuries before the birth of Christ. I chose
Dante because of its unbelievable tension between this spiritual world
in the secular world. Dante was writing as a Christian,
but it's about the way earthly history and the demands
(11:07):
of the soul come into conflict those of my first three.
And this is right on the cusp of the Middle Ages,
the Age of Belief, and then the Age of Reason,
the Renaissance, and then the Renaissance. We naturally flow into
the person I felt I had to choose one from
because he shaped the English language, he shaped the language
(11:29):
you and I are speaking. And now Shakespeare. Uh, Shakespeare
is the opposite in a way of Dante. If Dante
is very scholarly, very steeped in doctrine, and and very
difficult to just pick up and read Shakespeare once you
learn the little verbal ticks, once you learn the expressions,
is actually not that difficult. A lot of shakespeare stuff
(11:51):
is refashioned, recycled stuff like Romeo and Juliet was an
Italian Renaissance tale, a very boring one. Shakespeare made it magical.
He was no scholar. He was just really an incredibly
gifted psychologist, the most extraordinary capacity to use language. But
he was not someone who was buried his nose buried
(12:12):
in books. He was a businessman trying to get people
to his theater and make compelling works of art that
were accessible. We have to remember that, right, Shakespeare was Shakespeare.
I know you've seen, you've heard the rumors. The main
argument against Shakespeare's being the author of his own plays
was that how could someone with very little education right
(12:35):
as he did? But that's absurd. That's Michelangelo didn't go
to you know, art school. He he apprenticed. We can't
apply anachronistically our idea just because Shakespeare didn't go to
Oxford and Cambridge that he couldn't have written, uh these
plays is absolutely silly. If with my list gives the
lie to anything, it's this the idea that you can't
(12:57):
be read by many and a brilliant writer because Shakespeare
could not have been more popular in his day. He's
still in college curricula all over the country. Uh, you know,
and he was a very successful theater impresario, theater merchants,
so you know, he was I think that's part of
his appeal. He was what I call accessible genius. He
(13:19):
wasn't trying to say things in a rarefied way. He
was trying to get people into his theater and communicate
with his audience, and he somehow did it in a
way of you know, artistic brilliance. Okay, we got four
books so far, So moving closer today. I thought the
whole point of my lectures to get people reading. So
I didn't want to, you know, give them all. I
could have chosen, you know, don Quixote, I could have
(13:40):
chosen Montana, a lot of older text, but I wanted
to come close to the present to find works in
more relevant to today. So in that way, and especially
are the American question, American identity, United States writers. So
I chose a British author, Virginia Wolf because, um, I
believe that she wrote an extraordinary book about many things,
(14:01):
but above all, I would say it gives us an
incredibly complex model of female identity. That book is to
the Lighthouse, our fifth book, our last, our six, seventh
and eighth book, our last three, or all American books,
and all in dialogue with one another in their own ways.
I chose Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man, Joseph Hellos Catched twenty two,
(14:25):
and harp re Leased to Kill a Mockingbird, And they're
all part of what I considered the quest for the
Great American novel. A theorist in the late nineteenth century,
John William DeForest came up with the term the great
American novel. And I still think there is this desire
um in writers to kind of capture the complexities of
American identity and get it on the printed page. And
(14:47):
it's not just the three I mentioned, but we see
this in Philip Roth, Tony Morrison, so many Mark Twain,
so many writers who kind of embraced the riddle and
enigma of American identity. Make the case for why reading
literature matters so much, you know, Richard, the more I
think about it, the more important than the choice of
(15:07):
eight books, my version of eight books versus yours versus
someone else's. Um, it's really what do they have in common?
What to all great books. What does all great literature
have in common? And I would focus on four things.
One great literature is a passport to alternate worlds. You know,
(15:28):
I grew up in a working class Italian American family.
My family immigrated. We didn't have a lot of money.
My parents had a grade school education. There were no
books in our house. In fact, I'm kind of an
unlikely person to be giving a lecture on eight books
to read, because when I was growing up, my mom,
whenever she saw me with a book, she'd say, in
her dialect, you know, lass, you know, put that book down.
(15:51):
It's going to give you a headache, as if reading
would give me a headache, you know. Um. But even
though we didn't have money, we didn't travel. We had
a local library, and by going to the library, I
could read about Rob Lais and Renaissance France. I could
read about f Scott Fitzgerald in the nineteen twenties during Prohibition,
(16:12):
I could travel anywhere. Literature gave me alternate worlds. It
gives every read or alternate world not just in the present,
but you can go back in the past. Aristotle said brilliantly,
history tells us what happened poetry gives us what could
have which should have happened, a universal history. It takes,
(16:35):
it moves beyond the contingent into the universal, so that
when you read Scott Fitzgerald's A Great Godsby, you can
see what life was like in the nineteen twenties. You
can see, you can the air of the parties that
gets me through his rife with the sense and the
music of that era. It brings it to life just
(16:55):
as richly as any historian could. So the first facet
of these great books is they're a passport to alternate
world absolutely the second. The second one is literature is
the marriage of form and content. In other words, how
you say something is just as important as what you say.
(17:19):
That's really the biggest difference between literature and other forms
of writing. You can read wonderful history, you can read
wonderful philosophy. But literature is all about the surface texture
of the words you do. It's almost like music. When
you become a good reader, you start to hear the
notes of what's on the page. Form and content are one.
(17:43):
You know. There's a little line from Hamlet. When we
first meet Hamlet, Claudius introduces um and he's like my son, Hamlet.
He's not really, you know, he's it's his nephew, but
he's become his son because he's married Gertrude and Hamlet.
In reply to this line, he says a little more
than kin and less than kind. Too much family, too
(18:06):
little good behavior. Right, it would lose an effect if
he just said, you're not a very good uncle. You
shouldn't have married my mom. Right, you shouldn't have killed
my dad either, while you're at it. It's about this
kind of artful crafting of language thematically. You know, my
students always say, gosh, this was an a paper, how
(18:28):
could you have given it a C? And I say,
you know, the idea may have been an A, but
the writing was a D. So we split the difference.
It's about the joy and beauty of hearing the words.
You do podcasts, you know what that's about, right, The
joy of language. How language has a life of its own,
(18:49):
And that's what literature gives us. Now that we've heard
your first two qualities, let's go to the third. I
think the third one is what I call human at
He's diary. By that, I mean literature gives us insights
into the way people lived. And I think in a
way that no other form of expression can well because
(19:11):
there's so much empathy. So much empathy puts you right
alongside a character from a different time, a different place,
a different culture. Think of To the Lighthouse. It's about
a woman basically, you know, she's she's a housewife, she
doesn't work, she raises an enormous family, many children. That
person's voice would be very hard to hear in the
(19:32):
public back then, because her husband is a philosopher, is
very famous. His words is out there everywhere. But she's
at home. She's a domestic you know, creature. And yet
Virginia Wolf takes us inside her head and she gives
these incredibly lush descriptions of her inner life. Where else
can we get that but literature. I tell my students
(19:53):
it's like a fossil, an imprint, but not in the
physical world, but of the human spirit it and you
have this lovely phrase, the literature is the texture of
life beyond the facts. That's exactly what I think this
idea of humanity's diary gives us. So we're up to
the fourth The fourth one, uh is my most I
(20:16):
would say, um coded one I call it finding a
fig tree of your own. By that, I mean going
back to St. Augustine, who wrote the Confessions in the
late three hundreds. Augustine has this life changing experience basically
under a fig tree where he's having this breakdown, true
like spiritual crisis, and he hears a voice saying totally
(20:39):
leg which is Latin for a pick it up and read.
So he reaches for a book happens to be a Bible,
and he finds the passage that enables him to break
his addiction with sex, with pleasures of the flesh, with
worldly ambition. Sometimes we need external help to break a habit,
to break a pattern. For Augustine, came in the form
(21:01):
of picking up a book and reading about a path
in life that he needed to take. This is very dramatic,
of course, but I think we all have those moments
where we're reading something and it can really have an
impact on who we are, our sense of the world,
our sense of someone we know or someone we thought
we knew, our sense of our own past. I think
(21:23):
it's something that makes it literature, as like a companion
that you go through life with and that at certain
times can change that life. We've all or many of
us have had those moments as readers where we read
something and we feel the book is speaking directly to us,
our own private fig tree moment in a way. That's
(21:45):
my most important gift of reading, that you can have
that moment where reading changes your life. Now we're doing
this podcast and we're talking about your lecture. We've given
people a taste of what you're talking about. Why should
they go and see you? Because every talk has I
suppose has its aim right, mine is very simple. It's
(22:10):
not for them to leave and say, wow, Professor Liusey
had some really I mean, I hope they think I
have good insights on the books. But my aim is
very simple. I want you to leave my talk and
go read a book. If you do that, then the
talk succeeded. Why should we read? Why should we read
the great books? Because of this power of storytelling to
(22:33):
bring people separated by culture, politics, identity together into that
universal space where they can recognize each other as human
beings and feel each other's pain while enjoying the pleasure
of great stories. That's great right here, that was really enjoyable.
(23:06):
I'm Richard Davis. Thanks for listening. Sign off on our
website one day you dot com to become a member
and access over six hundred full length video lectures for
the world's finest professors
I always tell my students, don't think of literature. I
call it the broccoli argument. Don't think of it as
something that's good for you that you should do. Just
get it down, you know. It should really be something
that is. It's not easy. It takes hard work and
the barriers to entry to high the Science of Happiness,
Appreciating conderning dilemmas of modern medicine, Abraham Lincoln at the
(00:23):
Civil War, of the artistic genius Nichel Angeli, when intuition
face changed American psychology of religion. One Day University. The
most acclaimed and popular professors from top colleges. They're best lectures,
(00:45):
fascinating conversations. Hi, I'm Richard Davies. Let's learn. I'm an
advocate for literature. I think that it's important for political life.
I think it helps us. My name is Joseph leu See,
and I'm a professor of comparative literature at Bard College.
The name of the lecture is eight Books that Change
(01:06):
the World. When you think of the experience of just
scanning social media and that sense of exhaustion and wasted
time you get right after an hour of it, you
never feel that way after you read a book. I'm
gonna start with one of the wonderful things you said
in this lecture, which I just loved. Writing is an
act of generosity towards the reader. Thank you for reminding
(01:29):
me that, because in a way, I want to just
build a little bit on this idea of generosity uh
for the reader by the writer. But I think it
goes both ways. Um. I also tell my students, and
I tell the participants at Wenday University that writing and
reading are an act of collaboration. When we talk about literature,
(01:49):
I think the thing that we want to think about
it does the book doesn't. It's not like a painting, right.
If you look at a painting, it has an inherent
beauty in itself. Right. It's a physical object. You give
it meaning, but it exists as an object in the world.
The book is brought to life by the reader, and
that's why it's so different than watching television or you know,
(02:12):
you can interpret movies as well, but the book, all
the heavy lifting has to be done by the reader.
I always tell my students you're writing a book along
with the author, because if you don't actively engage with it,
it doesn't exist. It's just code on a page it
And this I think is a really amazing thing because
(02:35):
it makes it puts so much burden and responsibility on you.
Your imagination, your rational intellect, your memory, your sense of
history and culture, and you bring those all to bear
in what one great scholar, Edward said, said, an act
of erudition and sympathy. You know, when you are almost
back in the shoes of the author who wrote it.
(02:58):
Without the reader, the book is nothing. And that's why,
in a way, reading is so demanding. And that's why,
you know, uh, some of the recent statistics show that
it may be on the wane. Is that it's something
that you can't do along with other things. As Jonathan
friends and said the novelists, you can't read in multitask.
It takes up all of your energies. And I actually
(03:21):
think in this day and age, the skills that we
get from literature will become even more important than ever before.
The ability to focus and concentrate, the ability to read deeply,
to bring the text to life without succumbing to distractions.
This is an incredible challenge today right Those who can
(03:44):
do what I think are going to be you know,
will have a skill that will be very important in
this new information economy. Why because I think that books
have shown themselves to be remarkably resilient. I always tell
my students, think of a work like Augustine's Confessions. It
was written in the late three hundreds, I think like
(04:06):
three d. Some people call it like the first autobiograph,
first memoir. I mean, imagine, what else do you know
from that era. I mean, it's incredibly remote that book,
this memoir lives on. In the tell All memoir, the
Augustine was addicted in his own way to sex into
(04:29):
worldly glory. He had to overcome that. That's a story
that's told over and over again in our books today.
So the freshness in the modernity of Augustine's memoir, even
though it was written over sixteen hundred years ago, as extraordinary.
The fact that some of these books can stay alive,
it's really a miracle. Most books disappear very shortly after
(04:51):
they're published, right. The scholar at Stanford, Franco Moretti, came
up with the term the slaughterhouse of literature, you know,
to show the and the statistics are staggering. I think
it's something like only one out of every two hundred
books lives past their immediate point of publication. Why do
those few live on? And the fact that they do
(05:12):
is really remarkable. I use the word miracle because somehow
they remain relevant and vital with the passing of time,
and it's because of the reader. When they stop speaking
to the reader, they will disappear. Your lecture the eight
books that change the world, one naturally is the Bible,
(05:35):
which may have changed the world more than anything else,
no matter what you believe, right I I'd say, think
of the Bible as literature, as a collection of stories,
independent of your your faith system, and just think of
its revolutionary impact across the world. I urge you to
read the Bible. It's an incredible piece of literature. It
(05:56):
is so unusually written, it was written by many hands.
It's at once a collection, it's an anthology, it's a digest.
It's about editing, it's about translation, it's about trying to
blur the line between life and words. It's about the
sacredness of the text. A lot of modern literary criticism
(06:20):
what I do grew out of the tradition of biblical scholarship,
the exegesis, making sense of the word. You've zero in
on Genesis as an extraordinary piece of storytelling. Storytelling, I mean,
think about it. Genesis has a specific language, something along
(06:42):
the lines. And God created the earth and the heavens
and it was good, and you know, then he rested
on the seventh day. This idea, the way the sentences cascade,
the hands, you know, one following weather. We don't talk
like that. That's called in to put My professor had
on for a moment para taxis where the the sentences
don't really logically link the way we speak today with
(07:05):
normal syntax, but in that incredible form you get a
rhythm of flow and a kind of rhetoric of storytelling
that's so memorable, so rich, so unbelievable. And also think
of the characters that are created in Genesis. God is
a character. Everything that God is making is sort of
(07:26):
not turning out the way he planned, right. Genesis is origin.
Listen to this amazing passage. And the Lord saw that
the evil of the human creature was great on the earth,
and that every scheme of his heart's devising was only
perpetually evil. And the Lord regretted having made the human
(07:48):
on earth, and was grieved to the heart. And the
Lord said I will wipe out the human race I
created from the face of the earth, from human to
alt a crawling thing to the foul of heavens. For
I regret that I have made them. What a passage.
The idea of God as a character who's upset over
(08:13):
his creation. It's one of the most grounding images and
descriptions of what supposedly an untouchable, a noble, surpassingly powerful deity,
and the collection of people who wrote Genesis give us
to him. It's a hate right in all his psychologic
(08:34):
in this context, I don't know what it really is,
in all the psychological complexity. This ish image of God
grieving to the heart is to me a powerful example
of how we create character in the Bible. That's what
literature does it get, whether it's you know, a realist
(08:56):
novel from the eight hundreds or contemporary novel M Yesterday
or the Genesis. You're talking about these unbelievably rich characters,
like God, like Joseph, like Adam and Eve. I mean,
think of Adam and Eve. You know, uh, they live
in paradise, but they choose to violate the terms of
(09:18):
paradise to taste from the tree of knowledge. Why Do
they prefer a life with hardship if it means getting
to knowledge? Do they? Just? Is it just a human
tendency to not be able to resist temptation? It raises
all these incredible psychological issues and concerns that can speak
(09:40):
to you no matter what your faith is. We've been
teasing our listeners a little, so let's taste from the
tree of your lecture and mentioned that the eight books
the other book from ancient times as the Odyssey, right I.
I you know, of course, a list like this is
highly selective, highly adios and cratic, and more of a
(10:01):
gesture towards the books that have been incredibly meaningful to
me and the books that I feel have had the
lasting impact. The whole point is that I want my
eight to stimulate you. Our listeners are audience members to
make their own list of eight books. Okay, so we
got the Odyssey by Homer. Yeah, I'm not evading the questions.
(10:23):
And then and I wasn't a literary version of a
filibuster that I have the And then you jump your
fast forward to the fourteenth century with I chose Dante.
Dante is my my you know, my main man, the
person I've studied and written about, probably more than anyone. Um.
I chose Genesis because of its um incredible the impact
(10:44):
of the Bible and all cultures, all religions. I chose
the Odyssey because it's the story of the hero's return
that is as relevant today as it was when it
was written centuries before the birth of Christ. I chose
Dante because of its unbelievable tension between this spiritual world
in the secular world. Dante was writing as a Christian,
but it's about the way earthly history and the demands
(11:07):
of the soul come into conflict those of my first three.
And this is right on the cusp of the Middle Ages,
the Age of Belief, and then the Age of Reason,
the Renaissance, and then the Renaissance. We naturally flow into
the person I felt I had to choose one from
because he shaped the English language, he shaped the language
(11:29):
you and I are speaking. And now Shakespeare. Uh, Shakespeare
is the opposite in a way of Dante. If Dante
is very scholarly, very steeped in doctrine, and and very
difficult to just pick up and read Shakespeare once you
learn the little verbal ticks, once you learn the expressions,
is actually not that difficult. A lot of shakespeare stuff
(11:51):
is refashioned, recycled stuff like Romeo and Juliet was an
Italian Renaissance tale, a very boring one. Shakespeare made it magical.
He was no scholar. He was just really an incredibly
gifted psychologist, the most extraordinary capacity to use language. But
he was not someone who was buried his nose buried
(12:12):
in books. He was a businessman trying to get people
to his theater and make compelling works of art that
were accessible. We have to remember that, right, Shakespeare was Shakespeare.
I know you've seen, you've heard the rumors. The main
argument against Shakespeare's being the author of his own plays
was that how could someone with very little education right
(12:35):
as he did? But that's absurd. That's Michelangelo didn't go
to you know, art school. He he apprenticed. We can't
apply anachronistically our idea just because Shakespeare didn't go to
Oxford and Cambridge that he couldn't have written, uh these
plays is absolutely silly. If with my list gives the
lie to anything, it's this the idea that you can't
(12:57):
be read by many and a brilliant writer because Shakespeare
could not have been more popular in his day. He's
still in college curricula all over the country. Uh, you know,
and he was a very successful theater impresario, theater merchants,
so you know, he was I think that's part of
his appeal. He was what I call accessible genius. He
(13:19):
wasn't trying to say things in a rarefied way. He
was trying to get people into his theater and communicate
with his audience, and he somehow did it in a
way of you know, artistic brilliance. Okay, we got four
books so far, So moving closer today. I thought the
whole point of my lectures to get people reading. So
I didn't want to, you know, give them all. I
could have chosen, you know, don Quixote, I could have
(13:40):
chosen Montana, a lot of older text, but I wanted
to come close to the present to find works in
more relevant to today. So in that way, and especially
are the American question, American identity, United States writers. So
I chose a British author, Virginia Wolf because, um, I
believe that she wrote an extraordinary book about many things,
(14:01):
but above all, I would say it gives us an
incredibly complex model of female identity. That book is to
the Lighthouse, our fifth book, our last, our six, seventh
and eighth book, our last three, or all American books,
and all in dialogue with one another in their own ways.
I chose Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man, Joseph Hellos Catched twenty two,
(14:25):
and harp re Leased to Kill a Mockingbird, And they're
all part of what I considered the quest for the
Great American novel. A theorist in the late nineteenth century,
John William DeForest came up with the term the great
American novel. And I still think there is this desire
um in writers to kind of capture the complexities of
American identity and get it on the printed page. And
(14:47):
it's not just the three I mentioned, but we see
this in Philip Roth, Tony Morrison, so many Mark Twain,
so many writers who kind of embraced the riddle and
enigma of American identity. Make the case for why reading
literature matters so much, you know, Richard, the more I
think about it, the more important than the choice of
(15:07):
eight books, my version of eight books versus yours versus
someone else's. Um, it's really what do they have in common?
What to all great books. What does all great literature
have in common? And I would focus on four things.
One great literature is a passport to alternate worlds. You know,
(15:28):
I grew up in a working class Italian American family.
My family immigrated. We didn't have a lot of money.
My parents had a grade school education. There were no
books in our house. In fact, I'm kind of an
unlikely person to be giving a lecture on eight books
to read, because when I was growing up, my mom,
whenever she saw me with a book, she'd say, in
her dialect, you know, lass, you know, put that book down.
(15:51):
It's going to give you a headache, as if reading
would give me a headache, you know. Um. But even
though we didn't have money, we didn't travel. We had
a local library, and by going to the library, I
could read about Rob Lais and Renaissance France. I could
read about f Scott Fitzgerald in the nineteen twenties during Prohibition,
(16:12):
I could travel anywhere. Literature gave me alternate worlds. It
gives every read or alternate world not just in the present,
but you can go back in the past. Aristotle said brilliantly,
history tells us what happened poetry gives us what could
have which should have happened, a universal history. It takes,
(16:35):
it moves beyond the contingent into the universal, so that
when you read Scott Fitzgerald's A Great Godsby, you can
see what life was like in the nineteen twenties. You
can see, you can the air of the parties that
gets me through his rife with the sense and the
music of that era. It brings it to life just
(16:55):
as richly as any historian could. So the first facet
of these great books is they're a passport to alternate
world absolutely the second. The second one is literature is
the marriage of form and content. In other words, how
you say something is just as important as what you say.
(17:19):
That's really the biggest difference between literature and other forms
of writing. You can read wonderful history, you can read
wonderful philosophy. But literature is all about the surface texture
of the words you do. It's almost like music. When
you become a good reader, you start to hear the
notes of what's on the page. Form and content are one.
(17:43):
You know. There's a little line from Hamlet. When we
first meet Hamlet, Claudius introduces um and he's like my son, Hamlet.
He's not really, you know, he's it's his nephew, but
he's become his son because he's married Gertrude and Hamlet.
In reply to this line, he says a little more
than kin and less than kind. Too much family, too
(18:06):
little good behavior. Right, it would lose an effect if
he just said, you're not a very good uncle. You
shouldn't have married my mom. Right, you shouldn't have killed
my dad either, while you're at it. It's about this
kind of artful crafting of language thematically. You know, my
students always say, gosh, this was an a paper, how
(18:28):
could you have given it a C? And I say,
you know, the idea may have been an A, but
the writing was a D. So we split the difference.
It's about the joy and beauty of hearing the words.
You do podcasts, you know what that's about, right, The
joy of language. How language has a life of its own,
(18:49):
And that's what literature gives us. Now that we've heard
your first two qualities, let's go to the third. I
think the third one is what I call human at
He's diary. By that, I mean literature gives us insights
into the way people lived. And I think in a
way that no other form of expression can well because
(19:11):
there's so much empathy. So much empathy puts you right
alongside a character from a different time, a different place,
a different culture. Think of To the Lighthouse. It's about
a woman basically, you know, she's she's a housewife, she
doesn't work, she raises an enormous family, many children. That
person's voice would be very hard to hear in the
(19:32):
public back then, because her husband is a philosopher, is
very famous. His words is out there everywhere. But she's
at home. She's a domestic you know, creature. And yet
Virginia Wolf takes us inside her head and she gives
these incredibly lush descriptions of her inner life. Where else
can we get that but literature. I tell my students
(19:53):
it's like a fossil, an imprint, but not in the
physical world, but of the human spirit it and you
have this lovely phrase, the literature is the texture of
life beyond the facts. That's exactly what I think this
idea of humanity's diary gives us. So we're up to
the fourth The fourth one, uh is my most I
(20:16):
would say, um coded one I call it finding a
fig tree of your own. By that, I mean going
back to St. Augustine, who wrote the Confessions in the
late three hundreds. Augustine has this life changing experience basically
under a fig tree where he's having this breakdown, true
like spiritual crisis, and he hears a voice saying totally
(20:39):
leg which is Latin for a pick it up and read.
So he reaches for a book happens to be a Bible,
and he finds the passage that enables him to break
his addiction with sex, with pleasures of the flesh, with
worldly ambition. Sometimes we need external help to break a habit,
to break a pattern. For Augustine, came in the form
(21:01):
of picking up a book and reading about a path
in life that he needed to take. This is very dramatic,
of course, but I think we all have those moments
where we're reading something and it can really have an
impact on who we are, our sense of the world,
our sense of someone we know or someone we thought
we knew, our sense of our own past. I think
(21:23):
it's something that makes it literature, as like a companion
that you go through life with and that at certain
times can change that life. We've all or many of
us have had those moments as readers where we read
something and we feel the book is speaking directly to us,
our own private fig tree moment in a way. That's
(21:45):
my most important gift of reading, that you can have
that moment where reading changes your life. Now we're doing
this podcast and we're talking about your lecture. We've given
people a taste of what you're talking about. Why should
they go and see you? Because every talk has I
suppose has its aim right, mine is very simple. It's
(22:10):
not for them to leave and say, wow, Professor Liusey
had some really I mean, I hope they think I
have good insights on the books. But my aim is
very simple. I want you to leave my talk and
go read a book. If you do that, then the
talk succeeded. Why should we read? Why should we read
the great books? Because of this power of storytelling to
(22:33):
bring people separated by culture, politics, identity together into that
universal space where they can recognize each other as human
beings and feel each other's pain while enjoying the pleasure
of great stories. That's great right here, that was really enjoyable.
(23:06):
I'm Richard Davis. Thanks for listening. Sign off on our
website one day you dot com to become a member
and access over six hundred full length video lectures for
the world's finest professors
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com