January 15, 2025 • 51 mins
Warriors at Work is celebrating 5 years this coming March and we are kicking off 2025 with a great interview with Derek Koenig - marketing & creative extraordinaire. He shares with us highlights from his 25 year career, what he learned from his work around the globe and his most recent assignment in Shanghai, China. Derek takes us on his journey of ideas, incredible business results, and inspirational stories of pushing through fear and playing with boundaries.
Whether you are looking to expand your business, locally or globally, or even in to the Asia Pacific region, this conversation is for you.
Throughout his 25-year career, Derek Koenig has combined team-building leadership, strategic acumen and award-winning creative storytelling to deliver record-breaking business results around the globe. Demonstrating equal expertise on both the strategic and creative sides of the content continuum, Koenig connects insights, data and innovative creative for break-through brand solutions. As VP Marketing for The North Face on assignment living in Shanghai China, Koenig led strategic and creative development for all consumer platforms driving awareness, relevance, consideration and conversion for the brand and product portfolio in the APAC region (including ANZ), doubling the business to reach $1B in sales in under 2 years.
(3:38) - How does Derek describe himself? He also talks about tapping into the qualities of both sides of our brains.
(5:40) - Derek shares a stand out moment when working at The Discovery Channel.
(9:00) Derek shares his experience working at North Face and expanding their brand in Asia.
(14:10) What did Derek know about himself, what critical skills did he posses, that helped him complete the task?
(16:57) What were some of the critical things Derek needed to do to create the level of engagement that North Face wanted in China?
(20:25) What was most challenging for him during this time? How did the cultural differences play a part in his approach?
(24:41) Derek shares some of the relationships he made while on this journey.
(29:02) Derek shares one of his extraordinary initiatives while he was in China.
(36:03) How did this experience shape how he views creative and marketing?
(45:22) Derek talks about how he shares his experiences and lessons in the classroom?
(47:53) What advice does he want to share with our community?
Connect with Derek Koenig
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dekoenig/
Subscribe: Warriors At Work Podcasts
Website: https://jeaniecoomber.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/986666321719033/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeanie_coomber/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanie_coomber
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-coomber-90973b4/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMZ2HyNNyPoeCSqKClBC_w
Whether you are looking to expand your business, locally or globally, or even in to the Asia Pacific region, this conversation is for you.
Throughout his 25-year career, Derek Koenig has combined team-building leadership, strategic acumen and award-winning creative storytelling to deliver record-breaking business results around the globe. Demonstrating equal expertise on both the strategic and creative sides of the content continuum, Koenig connects insights, data and innovative creative for break-through brand solutions. As VP Marketing for The North Face on assignment living in Shanghai China, Koenig led strategic and creative development for all consumer platforms driving awareness, relevance, consideration and conversion for the brand and product portfolio in the APAC region (including ANZ), doubling the business to reach $1B in sales in under 2 years.
(3:38) - How does Derek describe himself? He also talks about tapping into the qualities of both sides of our brains.
(5:40) - Derek shares a stand out moment when working at The Discovery Channel.
(9:00) Derek shares his experience working at North Face and expanding their brand in Asia.
(14:10) What did Derek know about himself, what critical skills did he posses, that helped him complete the task?
(16:57) What were some of the critical things Derek needed to do to create the level of engagement that North Face wanted in China?
(20:25) What was most challenging for him during this time? How did the cultural differences play a part in his approach?
(24:41) Derek shares some of the relationships he made while on this journey.
(29:02) Derek shares one of his extraordinary initiatives while he was in China.
(36:03) How did this experience shape how he views creative and marketing?
(45:22) Derek talks about how he shares his experiences and lessons in the classroom?
(47:53) What advice does he want to share with our community?
Connect with Derek Koenig
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dekoenig/
Subscribe: Warriors At Work Podcasts
Website: https://jeaniecoomber.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/986666321719033/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeanie_coomber/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanie_coomber
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-coomber-90973b4/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMZ2HyNNyPoeCSqKClBC_w
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Expectations that aren't met create anxiety and self doubt, and
they force you to not live in the moment. And
for me, China, well, you know, you had to live
in the moment because like you didn't know anything. So
(00:23):
to live in the moment is where you find peace.
You don't worry about the past. You know you can't
relitigate it, you can't fix it. You can learn from it.
But for me, my biggest issue throughout my whole career
was anxiety. What if this doesn't work? What if we fail? Yeah,
(00:45):
what if what if such and such happens? I actually
flip that, it's like what if it does work.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Welcome to the Warriors at Work Show. This is Genie Coomber,
your guide and host. This is a show for men
and women in the workplace who want to move from
the predictable to the potent. This is your weekly dose
of inspiration with an edge. I talk with CEOs and Shaman's,
sports marketing executives and therapists. All of us are like
(01:18):
minded thinkers and doers who tell stories, share wisdom, and
challenge each other to have the best life possible inside
and outside the office. Welcome to your Warrior conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hey everybody, it's Genie. Welcome to twenty twenty five. Warriors
at Work is five years old this coming March.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Five years.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you for your followership, your support, your encouragement, and
I'm kicking off the year with a great interview Derek Kanik,
marketing creative extraordinaire, who joins me in this conversation to
share with us snippets from his twenty five your career
combining team building, leadership, strategic acumen, creative storytelling, incredible business
(02:07):
results around the globe. More specifically, he talks to us
about his most recent assignment in Shanghai, China. So whether
or not you're looking to expand your business in the
US globally, maybe in the Asia Pacific region regardless, this
conversation is chock full with ideas, moments of inspiration, moments
(02:31):
of pushing through fear, playing with the boundaries. So inspirational
and it was such a thrill to have this conversation
with Derek, and I'm so happy to bring.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
It to you.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Enjoy. Derek, thank you so much for joining me here
at Warriors at Work. I'm really looking forward to this
conversation me too, so I want to level set and
set the table a bit for everybody that's going to
be watching and joining this conversation, because you have so
much richness and experience, and we're going to get into
(03:06):
that in terms of your story. And I want to
just say a couple of things that I know about you. Obviously,
you have a very rich creative and marketing leadership story
and experience for several years with incredible brands like Discovery
and north Face and your colleagues. I loved this on
(03:27):
your LinkedIn profile, and so this is I'm going to set.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You up here.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
They describe you as a break through talent, brilliant creative marketer, a.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Smart and strategic thinker.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But I want Derek to describe Derek in his own
words as we begin this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Wow, that's a good question. First off, whatever you post
on LinkedIn is the best of Yeah, it's only going
to be good stuff. Let's see, how do I describe myself?
I am basically what I've found to be good at
(04:08):
is connecting, and whether that's connecting people or ideas or thoughts.
But I think the shorthand is, for whatever reason, I'm
pretty good at connecting both sides of my brain from
the strategic side to the creative side and linking them both.
(04:31):
And I think in a career in marketing it's super
helpful because you can have great creative that isn't effective
because it's not on strategy, or you can have great
strategy but that's a good creative and you're not going
to break through. So what I've been lucky to be
able to do in my career is combine the both.
(04:52):
And sometimes early in my career was a little difficult
because people want to put you in a box. Right
you're either you know, carrying the ball words and selling
the work, or you're you know, writing and doing the
art direction. And I always wanted to do both, and
it wasn't until I found a real true calling, which
(05:17):
was at Discovery where we were creating content every day,
and the speed and the pace and the cadence of
connecting strategy with creative every day was a really good
place for me to kind of grow and do what
I really love to do, which was tell stories. Yeah,
(05:41):
you're telling stories.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I want I want to drop into that for a moment,
and I'd love for you to give some context here.
So you obviously have a career that combines that create
at those strengths of creative and marketing. And you talked
about your experience at Discovery. Was there a particular moment
or example where you're like, ooh, this is definitely me
at my best.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I think it's when I joined Discovery Channel and the
president at the time, Billy Campbell, had just done a
deal with the Lance Armstrong cycling team, so it was
transitioning to Discovery and we had to figure out a
way to plug in a guy who rides bikes in
France to why would Discovery Channel be sponsoring somebody like this,
(06:30):
And the answer was, well, it's just all the stories
that surround the bike, the man, the strategy, the team,
the topography, the tour, the technology, and Discovery was perfectly
positioned to tell all of those individual stories, but it
(06:53):
all focused on Lance, who at the time was probably
the most famous person in the world. So again the connection.
I think a lot of times people wonder why a
brand is involved with a celebrity or a person or
an event, and you really got to connect that that
(07:14):
that why why are they there? Why are they in
the conversation? What are they adding? Why am I listening?
Why do I care? About this story and when that happened,
that was amazing. And what we did was is we
created We had this idea where we were going to
(07:35):
do the countdown to number seven because Lance was going
to win his number seventh tour, and so we did
seven weeks to number seven and we created sixty seconds
of content every night in a roadblock on all Discovery
networks which told a short story about either the technology,
the team, whatever, what I called what I called it
(07:57):
cocktail party fodder. So if you are happening to watch it,
you've got a little piece of information that you could
pass along. And for me, so my theory on great
creative and content. You know, most people say content is king, Well,
(08:20):
content is everywhere. I would argue that context and social
currency is what makes content matter. So if you tell
a story to somebody or give somebody some information, you
have to do it in a way that they can
pass it along and that it becomes part of their story.
(08:42):
So you give them currency to share, and that I
think that's the secret sauce of marketing today. The consumer
of the viewer has to become part of the story
in order for them to amplify it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So let's let's build on this because you have such
an interesting experience living and operating in Shanghai. So I
want to take you back to November of twenty twenty two.
You were deployed to Shanghai, China to take the north
Face brand basically to the next level in APEX. And so,
first of all, there's so many aspects to this story, so
(09:23):
I just want to start with, like, what was going
on in the business that prompted this decision and why
did they ask Derek to go?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Well, well, first off, I couldn't be more grateful for
the opportunity, especially at this point in my career, to
have such a wonderful assignment and to go somewhere I've
never been and just learn. But getting back to so,
the north Face has three regions. They have Europe and
they have Asia, and they have the Americas. And Asia
(09:53):
always operated independently and they kind of did their own thing,
and obviously then Humor has completely different insights and background
and what have you. And they had gotten to a
point where they were growing, but it had kind of
plateaued and competition was fierce. And what they had never
(10:15):
done in Asia was tell the north Face story, which
is a very robust, sixty six year story of athletes
and expeditions and technology and like really rich storytelling based
on performance and human growth and just you know, these
(10:36):
wonderful aspects, but they'd always sold it as kind of
lifestyle and so kind of the assignment was to go
over they were basically it's kind of funny. I worked
for a woman, Nicole Otto, who had the vision to
do this, and I was the first American to go
over and be kind of inserted into into the business.
(11:01):
And I was very reverent about that and very understanding
that I, you know, had a lot to learn. But
her assignment was one double the revenues.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
From Oh is that all?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah? That was another one. She said, take it from
four hundred and fifty million to one billion, and do
it in two years. And my answer was, well, I
think they have a lot of people there. We probably
can do it. And she said, build it on the
platform of North Fay's performance and history and authenticity. I said, well,
(11:36):
I think I know how to do that. And she
also said, build the team, turn them into marketers, turned
them into brand lovers and storytellers, and that was kind
of the big three, And I said, okay, and she said,
(11:58):
go do it. And why she hired me, Uh, I
think you'd have to ask her, But I think I
I I one, I've been around a little while, so
I kind of no, you know, I know what, I
don't know, let's put it that way. But I also
(12:19):
had gotten to a point where it was just a
thrill to being a position of learning every day and
going there with So this is not my term, but
I've stolen it and I think it is fitting. But
we used it and we called it humble swagger. So
(12:43):
one is of course being humble, which is humility, and
and going in, you know, with with a position of
I need to learn as much as I can. And
swagger is confidence that you are confident that you have
the tools to learn and to apply and to adapt.
(13:03):
And basically we stole that from our athletes at north
Face because that's that's who they are. They do amazing
things and they climb mountains, but they are very humble
about it and very reverent because things can change and
bad things can happen, and it takes a team, and
it takes empathy and it takes understanding. So we put
(13:27):
those two together and it's kind of like that's our
brand is humble swagger. We know what we're doing, but
there is always room to learn more. And the key
part is you're coming with us. You know, we don't
know everything. It takes a team, so everybody's contribution is important.
(13:48):
Nobody's summits alone. I'm sure there's the first person that
gets up there and they get credit, but they're not
going alone. It takes a team, and so that's kind of,
in a nutshell what humble swag. I love that.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I love that nobody does the summit alone.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think that's brilliant nobody, right, because one of the
things that I want to talk about is, you know,
you're getting more into like your leadership and management FLUS,
which I think was critical. When you think about like
the first sixty to ninety days of this experience, you know,
what did you know about yourself that you knew was
(14:29):
going to be really really critical for your success and
for the success of the team, Like tell us more
like how that all started to manifest?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Oh, that's such a good question. First off, I went alone,
and most important to me was to insert in full immersion,
so I didn't live in a big, tall skyscraper. I
didn't have a limo driver. I didn't have any of that.
I lived in a neighborhood and I wrote a scooter
to work and I fixed my own me and try
(15:02):
to learn as much of the language as possible. So
what was key for me was patience, curiosity and actually,
you know, really this is I think most important in
my career is realizing that you are not in control.
(15:23):
Right You're in control of what you do, but you
may not be in control of what happens. And there's
so much going around you that you need to learn
and you need to be able to adapt and understand
and then apply and pivot. And every day was a pivot.
(15:44):
I every day there was something that happened that I
had no idea how to fix or do, and I
would just sit and think and go, well, the answer
will present itself. I don't know what it is, but
it takes patience. And the younger Derek from years ago
(16:05):
would press, would press hard to fix it right, you know,
gen X, we need to fix it, We need to
fix it right now. We have the answer. And I
think the key to China was patience and in learning
and listening. And I would use this phrase a lot
(16:25):
in my own head, which has been really helpful, and
it's really simple. It's before you say anything. I would
always say it kind of in my head. I'd be like, well,
doesn't need to be said. It doesn't need to be
said right now, and doesn't need to be said right
now by me. And if I can't answer yes to
(16:48):
those three questions, just don't say anything, you know, just listen.
And because nobody learns anything from talking.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So when you shows up, when you show up who
you are in Shanghai. You have all these amazing leadership
and management philosophies, practices. You obviously understand the world of
creative and marketing, and.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Now you're immersed in a totally different culture.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You have to balance. I have to advance very very
specific strategic priorities.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
But fast, really fast. Yeah, but I.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Also have to engage this team culturally.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
So talk to me about like some of the critical
things that you knew you had to do to create
that level of engagement.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Very good question. I mean, anytime there's a new leader
that shows up in an organization, there's always that transition
where you kind of have to earn the trust of
the team. This was a little bit different because I
had seventy two people, and I was the only Western person.
Everybody else was mainland Chinese. They all spoke perfect English,
(17:59):
so there was like a communication barrier from that standpoint,
but I'm sure they were thinking, who is this guy
and why is he here? I would get three questions always,
and they were always the first three questions. The first
question is what do you think about China? Always the
first question, and I'd say, I think it's great. You know,
(18:22):
it's wonderful, it's spectacular. I'm learning a lot. The second
question was why are you here? And I would say
I'm here to help, and you know, I bring you know,
my background with marketing and creative, but also I know
the north Face. I grew up with the North Face.
(18:43):
You know. I'm an outdoor person and passionate about it.
I remember my first North based jacket, you know, so
I kind of have that brand aspect to bring to it.
Third question was always pretty funny, is when are you leaving?
And I would say I moved here, I'm leaving when
(19:04):
we're done, and I don't know when that is. So
over time it took about three months. I think of
just showing up, yeah and listening and not only listening
in meetings, but I think most importantly, my management style
(19:26):
is much better one on one. And I'd always say
to people throughout my career, there's stuff you have to
do and stuff you want to do. In order to
get to the stuff you want to do, the fun stuff,
you got to do the stuff you have to do,
and the boss's job is to find out what you
(19:48):
want to do and then create the opportunity for them
to go do it. So and that's very independent and
personal with people. But once they understand one that you
can actually make that happen, and that you're listening and
(20:09):
you care about their personal growth, then you start to
really develop a relationship where the team becomes bigger than
the individual. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Wow, that's so interesting because it was basically you had
to really listen first, then apply and move and and
try to advance.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
What was most difficult for you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Oh wow, you know, understanding the Chinese culture is I
didn't say I wouldn't say it was difficult, but it
was completely foreign to anything anybody that works in the
Western world can even understand. I mean, the entire culture
(21:08):
is fundamentally different, and people behave in a way that
they grew up in and so to go in there
and expect that you could use Western tactics or philosophy
and it would motivate people would be a disaster. So
(21:31):
I went in eyes wide open and just listened and
tried to pay attention not only the words, but to actions,
to how people, how people work together, to how they
treat each other, to what's important, what's the currency, what's
the currency of the team. And it was fascinating. I
(21:51):
mean every day I would have a moment where I'd
be like, huh, that's why that is that way Now,
now I understand why this happens, when this happens, And
the only way to do that is to live it.
You know, Empathy is the big you know, empathy is
(22:12):
the big you know management word right now. Empathy is
not words. Empathy is action, and empathy is actually living
in somebody else's environment and experiencing it. You can't study it,
you can't read about it, you can't watch a video.
(22:33):
You have to be in it. And that's why it
was so important for me to go and live there
full time and be in a neighborhood. Yeah, and because
you see things.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And you did it alone, your family was still stateside,
So you really So when I think about like some
of the more difficult things is like personally, you had
to make a decision to go there, perfect nationally, you.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Had to change how you think, how you operate, and
pick up what are the cues of this culture? So
going to your point is like Western philosophy. You know,
we're drive or execution, we're explicit fix it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And you're going into the most implicit culture that there is.
I'm assuming based upon what you're saying, and that it
required a totally different frequency, totally different speed.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
It did. And the thing about China which is fascinating
and amazing is the speed and scale of everything. Once
you make a decision and push go, it's not just
one hundred thousand people or a million people or one
hundred million people. It's one point five billion people you
(23:49):
can reach and so you can affect change very quickly.
And from a marketing standpoint, it's like a kid in
a candy store, right because you see the results. But Yeah,
I was there alone and it was isolating, and at times,
you know, it was Yeah, I mean, you're you're in
(24:09):
a place where you don't know much and you have
to really fall back on your own humble swagger and
you know what, I don't know how this is going
to turn out, but I have to have confidence that
it's going to turn out the way it's supposed to
(24:29):
turn out. And you have to let go and give
up control, which is really hard from a Western standpoint.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, you made some beautiful friendships both personal and professional
while you were there, and you shared some of.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Those things in one person in particular.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'd love for you to to tell us a little
bit more about some of the friendships and they almost
became mentors to.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
You in a lot of ways. But I'd love for
you to give a little color and d text there.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, we're
human beings and it's all about relationships, right, and the
fundamentals of relationships transcend to any culture. I mean, it's
about trust, it's about it's about caring, it's about kindness,
(25:22):
and it's about having someone's back, and you know that's
the core. Who can you count on? And as the
new person there, it took a while because I'm sure
they're like, who is this guy and why is he here?
And he's from corporate and you know, can we trust him,
and you know, I had to do my best ted Lasso,
(25:46):
you know, management style, and just be patient and listened
and learned and go with it. And over time, what
unifies people in business is alignment. Right, So if you're
(26:08):
aligned in a common purpose, a common goal, you know,
the summit, if you will, then you can come together
on those terms. And that's number one. So first and foremost,
get aligned with your boss that if I can tell
anybody anything, I don't care what level you're at, you'd
better be doing what they think is important. And once
(26:35):
you're aligned. So my boss was the general manager of
north Face for Apak. His name was Stone Down and
he is one mainland Chinese and you couldn't put two
different kinds of people together. And we were partners and
we came together. It was like a buddy movie. It
(26:56):
was like something you would film, you know, and we
would and it got to a point where I would
teach him phrases in you know, Western phrases and he
would teach me Chinese phrases and and we would you know,
it was just constant learning and and and to me,
(27:22):
that's what a mentor does. And you know, in personal growth,
you know, like if you stop growing, just you know,
throwing the towel, especially in marketing, and the things that
he taught me and his supervisor taught me, and everybody
around he taught me has maybe a much better marketer
(27:45):
and creative and probably a better person to a certain extent,
you know, just you know, so few people in the
United States have any idea what it's like in in China.
I mean, you just don't get the opportunity and the
things that I saw and did and people I met
(28:07):
and still text every day. I have this one woman
who worked for me. She's amazing, and she loves music,
and I love music, but growing up in China, she
didn't have experience list hearing a lot of different Western bands.
(28:27):
So I'll send her music that she's never heard before.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I'll send her like, you know, a led Zeppelin tune
that we have all heard a million times and this
is the first time that she has heard it, and
I'll send it to her and she'll send something back like,
oh my god, I can't believe what I just heard,
and just see that the eyes light up and be like, wow,
(28:55):
I've never experienced this before in my life.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's like keeping the learning going there, experiences going you know,
I want to talk about you each touch on this
a little bit, but I think this is your results
are incredible.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
By the way that I want to I want to
talk about that. I want you.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
To tell us about one of your most extraordinary initiatives
when you were there.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, So I think the takeaway for me professionally about
China is there one to two years ahead of us
in a performance marketing conversion model. And when I say that,
it is a very effective model that I picked up
(29:43):
and then we adapted for the North Face and it
was a rocket ship and basically it's more complicated than this.
But essentially there's no there's no TV commercials in China.
There's no fire side, you know, where you can do
(30:04):
one thing and everybody sees it. There's no like anthems,
which is very Western. You create an anthem, you spend
a lot of money, you make a big ad, everybody
says it's great, and then hopefully it moves product. In China,
what you do is you create events or something that
(30:24):
is very Let's put it this way, it's about attraction.
It's not about promotion. And I think fundamentally a brand,
a good brand is about attraction. It's about creating a
community that I want to be a part of. How
do I get into that community? How do I get
(30:46):
into the north Face world? And so what we did
is we created these massive events, whether it was you know,
rail jams and Shanghai or one hundred k running events
or climbing events. And then we brought our athletes over,
(31:09):
you know, the Jimmy Chin's of the world, the Alex Honnell,
the rock Stars, if you will, the Alex Armstrong's greatest
woman out out of bound skier ever. And then we
create these events. But here's where the thing is, like,
only so many people can go to the event, right,
(31:30):
and we would stream the event, which would be great,
But the key is how do you connect that event
to actually buying something? Right? And so you take the
event and the magic in the spirit of the event,
and you replicate it in the six hundred stores. So
the stores become the experience where people can go and
(31:53):
touch and feel the product and the performance. But more importantly,
you create the social currency that people want to take
and then spread, so it becomes event, you know, athlete influencer,
social amplification, and then conversion and it's all done on
(32:18):
the phone, and it's all done within thirty seconds. So
if you think about that, if anybody says you can't
like do brand and selling at the same time, you can.
But it has to be a community that I want
to be in that community. I want to be with
(32:39):
those people. I want that product, that product that lets
me do this that they're doing. I want to do it. Oh,
here's where it is, Here's how it works, here's the performance,
here's the reasonable believe, and here's how I convert pushed
the button and that all happens seamlessly. And that is
(32:59):
coming to the United States. It's not here yet, but
it's coming. And it is highly efficient and it doesn't
cost as much money as the traditional Western model because
you don't have to produce a four million dollar anthem.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Spot right right.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So we did very simply is we built what we
called the world's first north Face Summit clubhouse in the
middle of Shanghai. So we took over this this building
and we converted it to an experience, which a lot
of people do. But more importantly, it was a community
(33:42):
center where we did talks and invited all kinds of
different people that embodied exploration, even if it wasn't you know,
outdoor exploration, music, art, you name it. And it became
the center of exploration and curiosity and community and it
(34:03):
was a living, breathing experience for six months. And the
key to that is if you think about some of
us who up at a certain age, it was essentially stealing
a page out of the MTV Spring Break Pardon House, right, Yeah,
everything happened at the clubhouse. So instead of having pain
(34:29):
influencers to put on our clothes and send out pictures
wherever they were, now they had to be in our clubhouse,
and so there's your context. So they were in our
world or they were on the side of a mountain
with our athletes, and so the content in the story
(34:49):
took their celebrity and their reach but put them in
our world. And then the consumer would say, I want
to be in that world. They're cool and they're in
that world. How do I get in that world? Well,
nor Face product allows you to go do this and
(35:11):
do it on your own, and then conversion happens on
the phone immediately right away, which is amazing, and that
is that is coming. There's no websites in China there's
no where everything is on the phone, So you have
(35:36):
a mini site on your phone which can tell your
whole story. So everything from the athletes to the anthem
you know the story, the background, the history, whatever you like.
Go deep into product demonstration and then convert right there
(35:57):
and then it will be at your house tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Just incredible. Well, when you think about you spent two.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Years there immersed in this culture in this way being yeah,
just just take a moment like, how how did that
experience shape how you view the world, how you view
creative and marketing.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Well, first, the world became a lot smaller, a lot smaller.
A twelve hour flight for me now is like no
big deal. And it's crazy because you know, you look
on your phone and my family. You can see where your.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Family is, you know, right right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And they would literally be on the other side of
the planet. And when I first got there, I felt
like that's far away. And then by the time I
came moments like that's not very far away at all.
So it's a lot smaller. From a marketing standpoint, I
think what I learned is there are a lot better
(37:04):
ways of doing it, and I think the Western marketing
philosophy has always driven marketing from as long as I
can remember. In Europe, you know, is similar to an extent,
although they do things a little bit different and a
little bit better, I would argue. But to learn how
(37:28):
the Asian apac marketing works and then to plug it
into what you already know from the Western side is
it's magic to be able to affect change as quickly
as we did. I mean we we we got most
(37:51):
things right, some things we didn't, and we would shift
really quickly and pivot because you have to. Right anybody
who thinks they know how it's going to turn out,
you don't. You have to be able to pivot quickly
and have that kind of flexibility in your thought that
(38:14):
maybe you didn't get it right, so you need to
change it a little bit. But yeah, from marketing standpoint,
the Western and the Eastern philosophies of marketing, when you
put them together, are magic. And the Eastern Asian philosophy
(38:37):
of marketing has not really know people don't know how
to do it in the in the US because they
have an experience to it. I want to say Eastern
and specifically it's China, Japan and Korea and the rest
of Asia are more western than than China. China is
(38:58):
is different and the way they market is is I
wish everybody could could have a crash course in it
because it's it's game changing, it really is. And when
like I said, and it's the best, so yeah again songs,
(39:23):
you know, the best of both worlds. Uh yeah. When
I got there haling song and they all looked at
me like I was nuts, and I was like, it's
Van Haalen. They're like, who's that? And I'm like, okay,
but it's true.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
It's it's the synergy of putting again connection, putting two
things together that you might not think go together, but
when you do, and you do it right, it creates magic.
And why it creates magic is this is my whole
creative philosophy. It takes something you know that you're familiar
(40:02):
with and combine it with something that is unexpected. And
what that forces the consumer to do is to say, well,
I know this and I know all about that, but
why is this connected to this now? So it forces
you to use both sides of your brain and that
(40:24):
creates long term memory. And if you do it properly
and do it with the idea of it's adding value
to the consumer. Then it turns into social currency and
then they will spread it. So with North Face, take
something you know, you know, you know, in the case
(40:49):
of China, I know these jackets, I know the napsis,
I know they're puffies. I know they keep me warm
or whatever. Plug it into the history of the North Face,
which is why it's called the North based, coldest side
of the mountain, you know, the hardest way up, the
history of the athletes, all the stories, and it changed
(41:10):
the perception of the brand, and it created community people
wanted to be in because it made them look cooler. Yeah,
and they knew something. And also and talking too much.
But China is going through a fundamental change now from
twenty years of basically exponential growth and people getting wealthier
(41:37):
and you know, basically their lifestyle becoming all about the
stuff post COVID. It's a rapid transformation about me and
my personal growth. And when you think of the North Face,
never stop exploring, I would put that. I would put
that up there with just do it as pretty much
(42:03):
the highest order of a call to action. I mean,
never stop exploring means just keep learning, just keep going,
just grow, grow, learn, get better, push yourself, fail, but
then get back up again, you know. Yeah, and China
was shifting to that, and we plugged right into that,
(42:27):
which was great. So like again, you know, I told
the story about the woman who didn't you know that
about music or whatever. The greatest, the great okay, the greatest.
The greatest thing that I can take away from China
is not is not the is not the success of
the numbers, which were great. And yes, that's good because
(42:47):
that goes on, that goes on LinkedIn. But what is
also on LinkedIn, which is equally important to me, is
the change in my staff. So and I got there,
nobody did anything outside nobody they didn't really understand.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I mean like personal hobbies outside does.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
That what you mean? No hiking, no skiing, no, no, nothing,
you know, it just wasn't And they it was right
after COVID, so like they hadn't been able to for
a long time, none of us really had, but for
them in particular. And so in two years of the
seventy two people on my staff, I would say three
(43:35):
quarters of them ran a race, went skiing, went hiking,
climbed a mountain, and they changed and it it would
be funny because we do these. I taught this one
(43:56):
woman how to ski. We did we did a ski
event up in the mountains and she never skied before
and I'm a big skier. But we spent you know,
the day skiing and then finally at the end of
the day she's like, oh, I'm really not getting it.
And I said, you're a skier now, who you skied today?
(44:20):
That means you're a skier, so that nobody can ever
take that away. You are a skier.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
What a great story, Derek, And.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
She just like her eyes lit up. She's like yeah,
She's like, but I'm not very good. I'm like, it
doesn't matter. Yeah, you're a skier, you're a runner, you're
a hiker, you're a climber. You are participating. You a
purpose and that's and to me, that's what the north Face.
I mean, we make stuff right that makes you warmer, drier,
(44:55):
But what it really does it allows you to be
in the environment longer and more comfortable, so you can
get better at things and you can experience them. Right,
not everybody climbs Everest. You don't have to.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
You know, brilliant, What a great story, and that speaks
so much going back to like your personal leadership and
management philosophy on who you are in the world and
the type of environment you're creating with other people. And
so here you are, you're back in the US, ye,
and you're bringing your lessons, your learnings, your insights into
(45:32):
the classroom, and I'd love for you to tell us
about what you're doing and why that's.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Important to you.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Well, so I went to the University of Michigan. That's
where I got my I MBA also went there undergrad
Go Blue. But I've always been engaged with the school
because I think my career I can come and show
(46:03):
stuff that they you know, is interesting, right, because we
make content. So when I was at Discovery, i'd come
back and show them stuff. But when they found out
that I had gone to China, then they were like,
you need to come in and talk about this, and
I said, I would love to, I said, but even better,
I said, what if I can get my partner from
(46:24):
China and we both come in together and present as
a team. And it's really about how two cultures, when
you put them together, can create magic. And and so
we're going to do that in April, which I'm excited
about and we're figuring out what the curriculum is and
what that's going to look like. But yeah, there's nothing
(46:49):
more fun than teaching and sharing. I mean it's storytelling, right,
it's storytelling, but it's storytelling with a purpose. And if
people can learn things and then apply them, great, you know,
but I'm so grateful for that. You know, if you
(47:09):
asked me five years ago I was going to spend
two years in Shanghai working for the North Face, I'd say,
you're you're crazy, Like, how is that going to happen?
And then you know, I was. I was lucky enough
to have it happen, and I was I'm not saying
I'm the only person that could do it, no, but
(47:31):
I was fortunate enough to be the person that did it.
And and again, just humility and and and grace. You
know that you get to do these things, embrace them,
you know for what they are.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Well, here's here's my last question, because anybody that's watching
and listening to this conversation, maybe they just got an
opportunity to go live and operate in in China.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
What what is your advice? What are like?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Okay, these are the couple of things that you have
to be thinking about or considering.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
So best advice, Derek.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Go go, but go with humility and curiosity and patience
and reverence and be prepared to let go because if
(48:40):
you try to control anything in an environment that you
can't control, you're going to go crazy. The one thing,
the one thing that China afforded me to do and this,
I think this is hard and maybe it will resonate
with with people because you know, Western society and particularly
(49:03):
in marketing, like we try to come up with ideas
and we try to affect change. We try to get
people to do things right, and we we have expectations
that they're going to react in a certain way. Expectations
that aren't met create anxiety and self doubt and they
(49:31):
force you to not live in the moment. And for me, China, well,
you know you had to live in the moment because
like you didn't know anything. So to live in the
moment is where you find peace. You don't worry about
(49:53):
the past. You know you can't relitigate it, you can't
fix it. You can learn from it. But for me,
my biggest is you throughout my whole career with anxiety,
what if this doesn't work. What if we fail?
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (50:06):
What if? What if such and such happens? I actually
flip that, it's like, what if it does work? Yeah?
What if it turns out? Okay? You know, like it
may not turn out the way you think it's going
to turn out, but it's going to turn out probably
the way it's supposed to. So like, live in the moment.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
What a perfect way to finish out this conversation with
huge insight like that. Derek and I thank you so
much for taking the time to share your story, share
your heart, and so looking forward to seeing what's going
to come next. Thank you for joining me for another
(50:51):
episode of the Warriors at Work Show. If you are
interested in learning more about what we do at the
Warriors at Work Show and platform, be sure to go
over to my website, Geniecomber and subscribe to my monthly
Warrior Playbook newsletter.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
I share everything that I'm.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Up to month by month, as well as some lessons
and insights that I've learned. I'm also interested in hearing
any feedback you have about this conversation or future topics,
so reach out to me directly on JC at Geniecoomber
dot com or on LinkedIn. Be sure to tell your
friends and your colleagues about this Warriors at Work Conversation, Subscribe,
(51:33):
review and rate us. It's the best way to get
this message out into the world.
Speaker 5 (51:38):
Be well.
Expectations that aren't met create anxiety and self doubt, and
they force you to not live in the moment. And
for me, China, well, you know, you had to live
in the moment because like you didn't know anything. So
(00:23):
to live in the moment is where you find peace.
You don't worry about the past. You know you can't
relitigate it, you can't fix it. You can learn from it.
But for me, my biggest issue throughout my whole career
was anxiety. What if this doesn't work? What if we fail? Yeah,
(00:45):
what if what if such and such happens? I actually
flip that, it's like what if it does work.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Welcome to the Warriors at Work Show. This is Genie Coomber,
your guide and host. This is a show for men
and women in the workplace who want to move from
the predictable to the potent. This is your weekly dose
of inspiration with an edge. I talk with CEOs and Shaman's,
sports marketing executives and therapists. All of us are like
(01:18):
minded thinkers and doers who tell stories, share wisdom, and
challenge each other to have the best life possible inside
and outside the office. Welcome to your Warrior conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hey everybody, it's Genie. Welcome to twenty twenty five. Warriors
at Work is five years old this coming March.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Five years.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you for your followership, your support, your encouragement, and
I'm kicking off the year with a great interview Derek Kanik,
marketing creative extraordinaire, who joins me in this conversation to
share with us snippets from his twenty five your career
combining team building, leadership, strategic acumen, creative storytelling, incredible business
(02:07):
results around the globe. More specifically, he talks to us
about his most recent assignment in Shanghai, China. So whether
or not you're looking to expand your business in the
US globally, maybe in the Asia Pacific region regardless, this
conversation is chock full with ideas, moments of inspiration, moments
(02:31):
of pushing through fear, playing with the boundaries. So inspirational
and it was such a thrill to have this conversation
with Derek, and I'm so happy to bring.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
It to you.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Enjoy. Derek, thank you so much for joining me here
at Warriors at Work. I'm really looking forward to this
conversation me too, so I want to level set and
set the table a bit for everybody that's going to
be watching and joining this conversation, because you have so
much richness and experience, and we're going to get into
(03:06):
that in terms of your story. And I want to
just say a couple of things that I know about you. Obviously,
you have a very rich creative and marketing leadership story
and experience for several years with incredible brands like Discovery
and north Face and your colleagues. I loved this on
(03:27):
your LinkedIn profile, and so this is I'm going to set.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
You up here.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
They describe you as a break through talent, brilliant creative marketer, a.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Smart and strategic thinker.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But I want Derek to describe Derek in his own
words as we begin this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Wow, that's a good question. First off, whatever you post
on LinkedIn is the best of Yeah, it's only going
to be good stuff. Let's see, how do I describe myself?
I am basically what I've found to be good at
(04:08):
is connecting, and whether that's connecting people or ideas or thoughts.
But I think the shorthand is, for whatever reason, I'm
pretty good at connecting both sides of my brain from
the strategic side to the creative side and linking them both.
(04:31):
And I think in a career in marketing it's super
helpful because you can have great creative that isn't effective
because it's not on strategy, or you can have great
strategy but that's a good creative and you're not going
to break through. So what I've been lucky to be
able to do in my career is combine the both.
(04:52):
And sometimes early in my career was a little difficult
because people want to put you in a box. Right
you're either you know, carrying the ball words and selling
the work, or you're you know, writing and doing the
art direction. And I always wanted to do both, and
it wasn't until I found a real true calling, which
(05:17):
was at Discovery where we were creating content every day,
and the speed and the pace and the cadence of
connecting strategy with creative every day was a really good
place for me to kind of grow and do what
I really love to do, which was tell stories. Yeah,
(05:41):
you're telling stories.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I want I want to drop into that for a moment,
and I'd love for you to give some context here.
So you obviously have a career that combines that create
at those strengths of creative and marketing. And you talked
about your experience at Discovery. Was there a particular moment
or example where you're like, ooh, this is definitely me
at my best.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
I think it's when I joined Discovery Channel and the
president at the time, Billy Campbell, had just done a
deal with the Lance Armstrong cycling team, so it was
transitioning to Discovery and we had to figure out a
way to plug in a guy who rides bikes in
France to why would Discovery Channel be sponsoring somebody like this,
(06:30):
And the answer was, well, it's just all the stories
that surround the bike, the man, the strategy, the team,
the topography, the tour, the technology, and Discovery was perfectly
positioned to tell all of those individual stories, but it
(06:53):
all focused on Lance, who at the time was probably
the most famous person in the world. So again the connection.
I think a lot of times people wonder why a
brand is involved with a celebrity or a person or
an event, and you really got to connect that that
(07:14):
that why why are they there? Why are they in
the conversation? What are they adding? Why am I listening?
Why do I care? About this story and when that happened,
that was amazing. And what we did was is we
created We had this idea where we were going to
(07:35):
do the countdown to number seven because Lance was going
to win his number seventh tour, and so we did
seven weeks to number seven and we created sixty seconds
of content every night in a roadblock on all Discovery
networks which told a short story about either the technology,
the team, whatever, what I called what I called it
(07:57):
cocktail party fodder. So if you are happening to watch it,
you've got a little piece of information that you could
pass along. And for me, so my theory on great
creative and content. You know, most people say content is king, Well,
(08:20):
content is everywhere. I would argue that context and social
currency is what makes content matter. So if you tell
a story to somebody or give somebody some information, you
have to do it in a way that they can
pass it along and that it becomes part of their story.
(08:42):
So you give them currency to share, and that I
think that's the secret sauce of marketing today. The consumer
of the viewer has to become part of the story
in order for them to amplify it.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So let's let's build on this because you have such
an interesting experience living and operating in Shanghai. So I
want to take you back to November of twenty twenty two.
You were deployed to Shanghai, China to take the north
Face brand basically to the next level in APEX. And so,
first of all, there's so many aspects to this story, so
(09:23):
I just want to start with, like, what was going
on in the business that prompted this decision and why
did they ask Derek to go?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Well, well, first off, I couldn't be more grateful for
the opportunity, especially at this point in my career, to
have such a wonderful assignment and to go somewhere I've
never been and just learn. But getting back to so,
the north Face has three regions. They have Europe and
they have Asia, and they have the Americas. And Asia
(09:53):
always operated independently and they kind of did their own thing,
and obviously then Humor has completely different insights and background
and what have you. And they had gotten to a
point where they were growing, but it had kind of
plateaued and competition was fierce. And what they had never
(10:15):
done in Asia was tell the north Face story, which
is a very robust, sixty six year story of athletes
and expeditions and technology and like really rich storytelling based
on performance and human growth and just you know, these
(10:36):
wonderful aspects, but they'd always sold it as kind of
lifestyle and so kind of the assignment was to go
over they were basically it's kind of funny. I worked
for a woman, Nicole Otto, who had the vision to
do this, and I was the first American to go
over and be kind of inserted into into the business.
(11:01):
And I was very reverent about that and very understanding
that I, you know, had a lot to learn. But
her assignment was one double the revenues.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
From Oh is that all?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah? That was another one. She said, take it from
four hundred and fifty million to one billion, and do
it in two years. And my answer was, well, I
think they have a lot of people there. We probably
can do it. And she said, build it on the
platform of North Fay's performance and history and authenticity. I said, well,
(11:36):
I think I know how to do that. And she
also said, build the team, turn them into marketers, turned
them into brand lovers and storytellers, and that was kind
of the big three, And I said, okay, and she said,
(11:58):
go do it. And why she hired me, Uh, I
think you'd have to ask her, But I think I
I I one, I've been around a little while, so
I kind of no, you know, I know what, I
don't know, let's put it that way. But I also
(12:19):
had gotten to a point where it was just a
thrill to being a position of learning every day and
going there with So this is not my term, but
I've stolen it and I think it is fitting. But
we used it and we called it humble swagger. So
(12:43):
one is of course being humble, which is humility, and
and going in, you know, with with a position of
I need to learn as much as I can. And
swagger is confidence that you are confident that you have
the tools to learn and to apply and to adapt.
(13:03):
And basically we stole that from our athletes at north
Face because that's that's who they are. They do amazing
things and they climb mountains, but they are very humble
about it and very reverent because things can change and
bad things can happen, and it takes a team, and
it takes empathy and it takes understanding. So we put
(13:27):
those two together and it's kind of like that's our
brand is humble swagger. We know what we're doing, but
there is always room to learn more. And the key
part is you're coming with us. You know, we don't
know everything. It takes a team, so everybody's contribution is important.
(13:48):
Nobody's summits alone. I'm sure there's the first person that
gets up there and they get credit, but they're not
going alone. It takes a team, and so that's kind of,
in a nutshell what humble swag. I love that.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I love that nobody does the summit alone.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think that's brilliant nobody, right, because one of the
things that I want to talk about is, you know,
you're getting more into like your leadership and management FLUS,
which I think was critical. When you think about like
the first sixty to ninety days of this experience, you know,
what did you know about yourself that you knew was
(14:29):
going to be really really critical for your success and
for the success of the team, Like tell us more
like how that all started to manifest?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Oh, that's such a good question. First off, I went alone,
and most important to me was to insert in full immersion,
so I didn't live in a big, tall skyscraper. I
didn't have a limo driver. I didn't have any of that.
I lived in a neighborhood and I wrote a scooter
to work and I fixed my own me and try
(15:02):
to learn as much of the language as possible. So
what was key for me was patience, curiosity and actually,
you know, really this is I think most important in
my career is realizing that you are not in control.
(15:23):
Right You're in control of what you do, but you
may not be in control of what happens. And there's
so much going around you that you need to learn
and you need to be able to adapt and understand
and then apply and pivot. And every day was a pivot.
(15:44):
I every day there was something that happened that I
had no idea how to fix or do, and I
would just sit and think and go, well, the answer
will present itself. I don't know what it is, but
it takes patience. And the younger Derek from years ago
(16:05):
would press, would press hard to fix it right, you know,
gen X, we need to fix it, We need to
fix it right now. We have the answer. And I
think the key to China was patience and in learning
and listening. And I would use this phrase a lot
(16:25):
in my own head, which has been really helpful, and
it's really simple. It's before you say anything. I would
always say it kind of in my head. I'd be like, well,
doesn't need to be said. It doesn't need to be
said right now, and doesn't need to be said right
now by me. And if I can't answer yes to
(16:48):
those three questions, just don't say anything, you know, just listen.
And because nobody learns anything from talking.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
So when you shows up, when you show up who
you are in Shanghai. You have all these amazing leadership
and management philosophies, practices. You obviously understand the world of
creative and marketing, and.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Now you're immersed in a totally different culture.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
You have to balance. I have to advance very very
specific strategic priorities.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
But fast, really fast. Yeah, but I.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Also have to engage this team culturally.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
So talk to me about like some of the critical
things that you knew you had to do to create
that level of engagement.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Very good question. I mean, anytime there's a new leader
that shows up in an organization, there's always that transition
where you kind of have to earn the trust of
the team. This was a little bit different because I
had seventy two people, and I was the only Western person.
Everybody else was mainland Chinese. They all spoke perfect English,
(17:59):
so there was like a communication barrier from that standpoint,
but I'm sure they were thinking, who is this guy
and why is he here? I would get three questions always,
and they were always the first three questions. The first
question is what do you think about China? Always the
first question, and I'd say, I think it's great. You know,
(18:22):
it's wonderful, it's spectacular. I'm learning a lot. The second
question was why are you here? And I would say
I'm here to help, and you know, I bring you know,
my background with marketing and creative, but also I know
the north Face. I grew up with the North Face.
(18:43):
You know. I'm an outdoor person and passionate about it.
I remember my first North based jacket, you know, so
I kind of have that brand aspect to bring to it.
Third question was always pretty funny, is when are you leaving?
And I would say I moved here, I'm leaving when
(19:04):
we're done, and I don't know when that is. So
over time it took about three months. I think of
just showing up, yeah and listening and not only listening
in meetings, but I think most importantly, my management style
(19:26):
is much better one on one. And I'd always say
to people throughout my career, there's stuff you have to
do and stuff you want to do. In order to
get to the stuff you want to do, the fun stuff,
you got to do the stuff you have to do,
and the boss's job is to find out what you
(19:48):
want to do and then create the opportunity for them
to go do it. So and that's very independent and
personal with people. But once they understand one that you
can actually make that happen, and that you're listening and
(20:09):
you care about their personal growth, then you start to
really develop a relationship where the team becomes bigger than
the individual. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Wow, that's so interesting because it was basically you had
to really listen first, then apply and move and and
try to advance.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
What was most difficult for you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Oh wow, you know, understanding the Chinese culture is I
didn't say I wouldn't say it was difficult, but it
was completely foreign to anything anybody that works in the
Western world can even understand. I mean, the entire culture
(21:08):
is fundamentally different, and people behave in a way that
they grew up in and so to go in there
and expect that you could use Western tactics or philosophy
and it would motivate people would be a disaster. So
(21:31):
I went in eyes wide open and just listened and
tried to pay attention not only the words, but to actions,
to how people, how people work together, to how they
treat each other, to what's important, what's the currency, what's
the currency of the team. And it was fascinating. I
(21:51):
mean every day I would have a moment where I'd
be like, huh, that's why that is that way Now,
now I understand why this happens, when this happens, And
the only way to do that is to live it.
You know, Empathy is the big you know, empathy is
(22:12):
the big you know management word right now. Empathy is
not words. Empathy is action, and empathy is actually living
in somebody else's environment and experiencing it. You can't study it,
you can't read about it, you can't watch a video.
(22:33):
You have to be in it. And that's why it
was so important for me to go and live there
full time and be in a neighborhood. Yeah, and because
you see things.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And you did it alone, your family was still stateside,
So you really So when I think about like some
of the more difficult things is like personally, you had
to make a decision to go there, perfect nationally, you.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Had to change how you think, how you operate, and
pick up what are the cues of this culture? So
going to your point is like Western philosophy. You know,
we're drive or execution, we're explicit fix it.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
And you're going into the most implicit culture that there is.
I'm assuming based upon what you're saying, and that it
required a totally different frequency, totally different speed.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
It did. And the thing about China which is fascinating
and amazing is the speed and scale of everything. Once
you make a decision and push go, it's not just
one hundred thousand people or a million people or one
hundred million people. It's one point five billion people you
(23:49):
can reach and so you can affect change very quickly.
And from a marketing standpoint, it's like a kid in
a candy store, right because you see the results. But Yeah,
I was there alone and it was isolating, and at times,
you know, it was Yeah, I mean, you're you're in
(24:09):
a place where you don't know much and you have
to really fall back on your own humble swagger and
you know what, I don't know how this is going
to turn out, but I have to have confidence that
it's going to turn out the way it's supposed to
(24:29):
turn out. And you have to let go and give
up control, which is really hard from a Western standpoint.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, you made some beautiful friendships both personal and professional
while you were there, and you shared some of.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Those things in one person in particular.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
I'd love for you to to tell us a little
bit more about some of the friendships and they almost
became mentors to.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
You in a lot of ways. But I'd love for
you to give a little color and d text there.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, we're
human beings and it's all about relationships, right, and the
fundamentals of relationships transcend to any culture. I mean, it's
about trust, it's about it's about caring, it's about kindness,
(25:22):
and it's about having someone's back, and you know that's
the core. Who can you count on? And as the
new person there, it took a while because I'm sure
they're like, who is this guy and why is he here?
And he's from corporate and you know, can we trust him,
and you know, I had to do my best ted Lasso,
(25:46):
you know, management style, and just be patient and listened
and learned and go with it. And over time, what
unifies people in business is alignment. Right, So if you're
(26:08):
aligned in a common purpose, a common goal, you know,
the summit, if you will, then you can come together
on those terms. And that's number one. So first and foremost,
get aligned with your boss that if I can tell
anybody anything, I don't care what level you're at, you'd
better be doing what they think is important. And once
(26:35):
you're aligned. So my boss was the general manager of
north Face for Apak. His name was Stone Down and
he is one mainland Chinese and you couldn't put two
different kinds of people together. And we were partners and
we came together. It was like a buddy movie. It
(26:56):
was like something you would film, you know, and we
would and it got to a point where I would
teach him phrases in you know, Western phrases and he
would teach me Chinese phrases and and we would you know,
it was just constant learning and and and to me,
(27:22):
that's what a mentor does. And you know, in personal growth,
you know, like if you stop growing, just you know,
throwing the towel, especially in marketing, and the things that
he taught me and his supervisor taught me, and everybody
around he taught me has maybe a much better marketer
(27:45):
and creative and probably a better person to a certain extent,
you know, just you know, so few people in the
United States have any idea what it's like in in China.
I mean, you just don't get the opportunity and the
things that I saw and did and people I met
(28:07):
and still text every day. I have this one woman
who worked for me. She's amazing, and she loves music,
and I love music, but growing up in China, she
didn't have experience list hearing a lot of different Western bands.
(28:27):
So I'll send her music that she's never heard before.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I'll send her like, you know, a led Zeppelin tune
that we have all heard a million times and this
is the first time that she has heard it, and
I'll send it to her and she'll send something back like,
oh my god, I can't believe what I just heard,
and just see that the eyes light up and be like, wow,
(28:55):
I've never experienced this before in my life.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's like keeping the learning going there, experiences going you know,
I want to talk about you each touch on this
a little bit, but I think this is your results
are incredible.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
By the way that I want to I want to
talk about that. I want you.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
To tell us about one of your most extraordinary initiatives
when you were there.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes, So I think the takeaway for me professionally about
China is there one to two years ahead of us
in a performance marketing conversion model. And when I say that,
it is a very effective model that I picked up
(29:43):
and then we adapted for the North Face and it
was a rocket ship and basically it's more complicated than this.
But essentially there's no there's no TV commercials in China.
There's no fire side, you know, where you can do
(30:04):
one thing and everybody sees it. There's no like anthems,
which is very Western. You create an anthem, you spend
a lot of money, you make a big ad, everybody
says it's great, and then hopefully it moves product. In China,
what you do is you create events or something that
(30:24):
is very Let's put it this way, it's about attraction.
It's not about promotion. And I think fundamentally a brand,
a good brand is about attraction. It's about creating a
community that I want to be a part of. How
do I get into that community? How do I get
(30:46):
into the north Face world? And so what we did
is we created these massive events, whether it was you know,
rail jams and Shanghai or one hundred k running events
or climbing events. And then we brought our athletes over,
(31:09):
you know, the Jimmy Chin's of the world, the Alex Honnell,
the rock Stars, if you will, the Alex Armstrong's greatest
woman out out of bound skier ever. And then we
create these events. But here's where the thing is, like,
only so many people can go to the event, right,
(31:30):
and we would stream the event, which would be great,
But the key is how do you connect that event
to actually buying something? Right? And so you take the
event and the magic in the spirit of the event,
and you replicate it in the six hundred stores. So
the stores become the experience where people can go and
(31:53):
touch and feel the product and the performance. But more importantly,
you create the social currency that people want to take
and then spread, so it becomes event, you know, athlete influencer,
social amplification, and then conversion and it's all done on
(32:18):
the phone, and it's all done within thirty seconds. So
if you think about that, if anybody says you can't
like do brand and selling at the same time, you can.
But it has to be a community that I want
to be in that community. I want to be with
(32:39):
those people. I want that product, that product that lets
me do this that they're doing. I want to do it. Oh,
here's where it is, Here's how it works, here's the performance,
here's the reasonable believe, and here's how I convert pushed
the button and that all happens seamlessly. And that is
(32:59):
coming to the United States. It's not here yet, but
it's coming. And it is highly efficient and it doesn't
cost as much money as the traditional Western model because
you don't have to produce a four million dollar anthem.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Spot right right.
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So we did very simply is we built what we
called the world's first north Face Summit clubhouse in the
middle of Shanghai. So we took over this this building
and we converted it to an experience, which a lot
of people do. But more importantly, it was a community
(33:42):
center where we did talks and invited all kinds of
different people that embodied exploration, even if it wasn't you know,
outdoor exploration, music, art, you name it. And it became
the center of exploration and curiosity and community and it
(34:03):
was a living, breathing experience for six months. And the
key to that is if you think about some of
us who up at a certain age, it was essentially stealing
a page out of the MTV Spring Break Pardon House, right, Yeah,
everything happened at the clubhouse. So instead of having pain
(34:29):
influencers to put on our clothes and send out pictures
wherever they were, now they had to be in our clubhouse,
and so there's your context. So they were in our
world or they were on the side of a mountain
with our athletes, and so the content in the story
(34:49):
took their celebrity and their reach but put them in
our world. And then the consumer would say, I want
to be in that world. They're cool and they're in
that world. How do I get in that world? Well,
nor Face product allows you to go do this and
(35:11):
do it on your own, and then conversion happens on
the phone immediately right away, which is amazing, and that
is that is coming. There's no websites in China there's
no where everything is on the phone, So you have
(35:36):
a mini site on your phone which can tell your
whole story. So everything from the athletes to the anthem
you know the story, the background, the history, whatever you like.
Go deep into product demonstration and then convert right there
(35:57):
and then it will be at your house tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
Just incredible. Well, when you think about you spent two.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Years there immersed in this culture in this way being yeah,
just just take a moment like, how how did that
experience shape how you view the world, how you view
creative and marketing.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Well, first, the world became a lot smaller, a lot smaller.
A twelve hour flight for me now is like no
big deal. And it's crazy because you know, you look
on your phone and my family. You can see where your.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Family is, you know, right right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And they would literally be on the other side of
the planet. And when I first got there, I felt
like that's far away. And then by the time I
came moments like that's not very far away at all.
So it's a lot smaller. From a marketing standpoint, I
think what I learned is there are a lot better
(37:04):
ways of doing it, and I think the Western marketing
philosophy has always driven marketing from as long as I
can remember. In Europe, you know, is similar to an extent,
although they do things a little bit different and a
little bit better, I would argue. But to learn how
(37:28):
the Asian apac marketing works and then to plug it
into what you already know from the Western side is
it's magic to be able to affect change as quickly
as we did. I mean we we we got most
(37:51):
things right, some things we didn't, and we would shift
really quickly and pivot because you have to. Right anybody
who thinks they know how it's going to turn out,
you don't. You have to be able to pivot quickly
and have that kind of flexibility in your thought that
(38:14):
maybe you didn't get it right, so you need to
change it a little bit. But yeah, from marketing standpoint,
the Western and the Eastern philosophies of marketing, when you
put them together, are magic. And the Eastern Asian philosophy
(38:37):
of marketing has not really know people don't know how
to do it in the in the US because they
have an experience to it. I want to say Eastern
and specifically it's China, Japan and Korea and the rest
of Asia are more western than than China. China is
(38:58):
is different and the way they market is is I
wish everybody could could have a crash course in it
because it's it's game changing, it really is. And when
like I said, and it's the best, so yeah again songs,
(39:23):
you know, the best of both worlds. Uh yeah. When
I got there haling song and they all looked at
me like I was nuts, and I was like, it's
Van Haalen. They're like, who's that? And I'm like, okay,
but it's true.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
It's it's the synergy of putting again connection, putting two
things together that you might not think go together, but
when you do, and you do it right, it creates magic.
And why it creates magic is this is my whole
creative philosophy. It takes something you know that you're familiar
(40:02):
with and combine it with something that is unexpected. And
what that forces the consumer to do is to say, well,
I know this and I know all about that, but
why is this connected to this now? So it forces
you to use both sides of your brain and that
(40:24):
creates long term memory. And if you do it properly
and do it with the idea of it's adding value
to the consumer. Then it turns into social currency and
then they will spread it. So with North Face, take
something you know, you know, you know, in the case
(40:49):
of China, I know these jackets, I know the napsis,
I know they're puffies. I know they keep me warm
or whatever. Plug it into the history of the North Face,
which is why it's called the North based, coldest side
of the mountain, you know, the hardest way up, the
history of the athletes, all the stories, and it changed
(41:10):
the perception of the brand, and it created community people
wanted to be in because it made them look cooler. Yeah,
and they knew something. And also and talking too much.
But China is going through a fundamental change now from
twenty years of basically exponential growth and people getting wealthier
(41:37):
and you know, basically their lifestyle becoming all about the
stuff post COVID. It's a rapid transformation about me and
my personal growth. And when you think of the North Face,
never stop exploring, I would put that. I would put
that up there with just do it as pretty much
(42:03):
the highest order of a call to action. I mean,
never stop exploring means just keep learning, just keep going,
just grow, grow, learn, get better, push yourself, fail, but
then get back up again, you know. Yeah, and China
was shifting to that, and we plugged right into that,
(42:27):
which was great. So like again, you know, I told
the story about the woman who didn't you know that
about music or whatever. The greatest, the great okay, the greatest.
The greatest thing that I can take away from China
is not is not the is not the success of
the numbers, which were great. And yes, that's good because
(42:47):
that goes on, that goes on LinkedIn. But what is
also on LinkedIn, which is equally important to me, is
the change in my staff. So and I got there,
nobody did anything outside nobody they didn't really understand.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
I mean like personal hobbies outside does.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
That what you mean? No hiking, no skiing, no, no, nothing,
you know, it just wasn't And they it was right
after COVID, so like they hadn't been able to for
a long time, none of us really had, but for
them in particular. And so in two years of the
seventy two people on my staff, I would say three
(43:35):
quarters of them ran a race, went skiing, went hiking,
climbed a mountain, and they changed and it it would
be funny because we do these. I taught this one
(43:56):
woman how to ski. We did we did a ski
event up in the mountains and she never skied before
and I'm a big skier. But we spent you know,
the day skiing and then finally at the end of
the day she's like, oh, I'm really not getting it.
And I said, you're a skier now, who you skied today?
(44:20):
That means you're a skier, so that nobody can ever
take that away. You are a skier.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
What a great story, Derek, And.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
She just like her eyes lit up. She's like yeah,
She's like, but I'm not very good. I'm like, it
doesn't matter. Yeah, you're a skier, you're a runner, you're
a hiker, you're a climber. You are participating. You a
purpose and that's and to me, that's what the north Face.
I mean, we make stuff right that makes you warmer, drier,
(44:55):
But what it really does it allows you to be
in the environment longer and more comfortable, so you can
get better at things and you can experience them. Right,
not everybody climbs Everest. You don't have to.
Speaker 5 (45:08):
You know, brilliant, What a great story, and that speaks
so much going back to like your personal leadership and
management philosophy on who you are in the world and
the type of environment you're creating with other people. And
so here you are, you're back in the US, ye,
and you're bringing your lessons, your learnings, your insights into
(45:32):
the classroom, and I'd love for you to tell us
about what you're doing and why that's.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Important to you.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Well, so I went to the University of Michigan. That's
where I got my I MBA also went there undergrad
Go Blue. But I've always been engaged with the school
because I think my career I can come and show
(46:03):
stuff that they you know, is interesting, right, because we
make content. So when I was at Discovery, i'd come
back and show them stuff. But when they found out
that I had gone to China, then they were like,
you need to come in and talk about this, and
I said, I would love to, I said, but even better,
I said, what if I can get my partner from
(46:24):
China and we both come in together and present as
a team. And it's really about how two cultures, when
you put them together, can create magic. And and so
we're going to do that in April, which I'm excited
about and we're figuring out what the curriculum is and
what that's going to look like. But yeah, there's nothing
(46:49):
more fun than teaching and sharing. I mean it's storytelling, right,
it's storytelling, but it's storytelling with a purpose. And if
people can learn things and then apply them, great, you know,
but I'm so grateful for that. You know, if you
(47:09):
asked me five years ago I was going to spend
two years in Shanghai working for the North Face, I'd say,
you're you're crazy, Like, how is that going to happen?
And then you know, I was. I was lucky enough
to have it happen, and I was I'm not saying
I'm the only person that could do it, no, but
(47:31):
I was fortunate enough to be the person that did it.
And and again, just humility and and and grace. You
know that you get to do these things, embrace them,
you know for what they are.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
Well, here's here's my last question, because anybody that's watching
and listening to this conversation, maybe they just got an
opportunity to go live and operate in in China.
Speaker 4 (48:08):
What what is your advice? What are like?
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Okay, these are the couple of things that you have
to be thinking about or considering.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
So best advice, Derek.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Go go, but go with humility and curiosity and patience
and reverence and be prepared to let go because if
(48:40):
you try to control anything in an environment that you
can't control, you're going to go crazy. The one thing,
the one thing that China afforded me to do and this,
I think this is hard and maybe it will resonate
with with people because you know, Western society and particularly
(49:03):
in marketing, like we try to come up with ideas
and we try to affect change. We try to get
people to do things right, and we we have expectations
that they're going to react in a certain way. Expectations
that aren't met create anxiety and self doubt and they
(49:31):
force you to not live in the moment. And for me, China, well,
you know you had to live in the moment because
like you didn't know anything. So to live in the
moment is where you find peace. You don't worry about
(49:53):
the past. You know you can't relitigate it, you can't
fix it. You can learn from it. But for me,
my biggest is you throughout my whole career with anxiety,
what if this doesn't work. What if we fail?
Speaker 4 (50:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (50:06):
What if? What if such and such happens? I actually
flip that, it's like, what if it does work? Yeah?
What if it turns out? Okay? You know, like it
may not turn out the way you think it's going
to turn out, but it's going to turn out probably
the way it's supposed to. So like, live in the moment.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
What a perfect way to finish out this conversation with
huge insight like that. Derek and I thank you so
much for taking the time to share your story, share
your heart, and so looking forward to seeing what's going
to come next. Thank you for joining me for another
(50:51):
episode of the Warriors at Work Show. If you are
interested in learning more about what we do at the
Warriors at Work Show and platform, be sure to go
over to my website, Geniecomber and subscribe to my monthly
Warrior Playbook newsletter.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
I share everything that I'm.
Speaker 3 (51:10):
Up to month by month, as well as some lessons
and insights that I've learned. I'm also interested in hearing
any feedback you have about this conversation or future topics,
so reach out to me directly on JC at Geniecoomber
dot com or on LinkedIn. Be sure to tell your
friends and your colleagues about this Warriors at Work Conversation, Subscribe,
(51:33):
review and rate us. It's the best way to get
this message out into the world.
Speaker 5 (51:38):
Be well.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.