How Connected Are You? The Mindset and Mastery of Networking with Nancie McDonnell Ruder

Networking is an integral part of our lives, both professional and personal.  I welcome back Nancie McDonnell Ruder, an extraordinary business woman from the Warrior community, to discuss the skills of networking and connecting with others.  We discuss how we can cultivate the best mindset and what tactical tips, inspiration and perspectives can we learn that will help us to connect and network better.  

Nancie McDonnell Ruder is an executive coach, leadership advisor and marketing consultant with decades of experience in marketing strategy, training, branding, and consumer research. She has a strong track record of driving accelerated growth for organizations by aligning their marketing strategies closely with customer expectations and preferences.  

Nancie began her professional career with the Leo Burnett Company in Chicago, Illinois, where she served clients such as Procter & Gamble, Eli Lilly and The Gap, and spearheaded global new business efforts, resulting in 14 cross market new business wins.  

Since launching Noetic Consultants in 2002, Nancie has provided strategic guidance to clients large and small, including: 7-Eleven, Discovery Channel, Georgetown University, NIKE, Vail Resorts, Samsung Electronics, SC Johnson, Mayo Clinic, and the Walt Disney Company. She is the creator of the Noetic Brand Health Diagnostic™ and the Noetic Art & Science Assessment™.  

In addition to her consulting work, Nancie is a respected author and sought-after speaker in the marketing and leadership space. Her engaging presentations draw from her extensive experience, providing actionable takeaways that help organizations and individuals thrive in today’s competitive business landscape.

(3:42)  Why did we decide to partner and discuss networking?  
(6:05) The word “networking”, how do we define it?  
(12:40) How can we integrate networking into our personal and professional lives?  
(14:37) Why networking matters? What are some of the barriers we experience related to networking?  
(18:32) What are some of the fears we experience when we don’t exercise our “networking muscles” regularly?  
(20:55) Nancie discusses the many ways we can use networking in our lives.  
(23:05) We talk about the concept of “Give and Take” from Adam Grant.  
(28:30) We discuss concepts of “helping others to succeed first”, how we are “you’re only as good as your network” and “you can’t get there alone and you don’t want to”.  
(32:20) Thinking of interactions with others as an “ask, offer and acknowledge”.  
(35:54) Where can someone begin on the path to successful networking?  How can we learn good habits from the beginning?  
(45:08) Tactical things you can do before networking with others.  
(48:26) Do’s and Don’ts when networking  
(55:25) Let’s wrap up the highlights of our conversation around being connected and networking.  
(56:47) We ask the community to take away an important point from our conversation.

Connect with Nancie McDonnell Ruder 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancieatnoetic/
https://noetic.io/   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I recommend that people just sit down and launder list, brainstorm, like,
what are the things that I think being better connected
could afford me? So start with your what you want
to get. Start there because it's heavy on your mind anyway,
and so you may know exactly you know, I'm seeking
a new job or I'm seeking to expand my network

(00:20):
so I can advance my career, and then narrow it
down to no more than three things that would be
those great gets for you over time. And then, and
this may be a little bit harder, make a list
of what you had to offer, what do I know
about and who do I know that might be helpful

(00:43):
to other people, so that your engine is warm to
those ideas.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to the Warriors at Work show. This is Genie Koomber,
your guide and host. This is a show for men
and women in the workplace who want to move from
the predictable to the potent. This is your weekly dose
of inspiration with an edge. I talk with CEOs and Shaman's,
sports marketing executives and therapists. All of us are like

(01:12):
minded thinkers and doers who tell stories, share wisdom, and
challenge each other to have the best life possible inside
and outside the office.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Welcome to your Warrior conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Hey everybody, it's Genie. Thank you so much for being
here with me at Warriors at Work. So this next
segment you're going to hear is a very very timely conversation.
So how connected are you? This is all about the
mindset and mastery of networking. Think of it as a
hit for your career, your business, and your life. And

(01:48):
I partnered with a returning guest and a dear friend,
Nancy McDonald ruder, because we saw an opportunity with the
wild ride that is the world economy right now and
the professional landscape just generally, that we realize that talking
about networking is really crucial, particularly right now. It's no

(02:10):
longer an optional skill. It's essential to career success, your growth,
as well as business innovation. So today we explore how
to master the art of the connection, overcoming common obstacles,
and building authentic networks that drive both your professional and
personal success. And Nancy is the founder of Noetic Consulting,

(02:34):
which is a marketing and leadership consultancy.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
That she founded in two thousand and two. She's provided strategic.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Guidance to clients large and small, including some very well
known names like AT and T, Discovery Channel, Georgetown University, Nike,
Mayo Clinic, Walt Disney Company.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Just to name a few.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
And she is a graduate of Georgetown University, earned her
NBA at the University of Chicago School of Business, and
she's an adject professor. She's also a respected author and
sought after speaker, and she is often at the podium
or on a stage sharing her expertise at industry events
at universities.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
So I couldn't think of a better person to partner.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
With and offer our experience, our thoughts, our opinions in
service to all of you.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
I hope you find it helpful.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Nancy, thank you so much for joining me for this
really important conversation.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Thank you for having me Janie. I'm so happy to
be back with you.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
I know returning guests and a little bit of a
frequent flyer, And what.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
I want to do is set the table for everybody
listening and watching around the Why Nancy and I decided
to do a conversation about networking and it's for two reasons.
One is we both philosophically have a belief about the
power of being in service to other people. And when

(04:04):
we looked at the state of the world, the state
of the economy, and the amount of change and shifting
that's happening, networking and relationship building is such a crucial
skill and we have a lot we could offer in
this domain, both of us owning businesses for over twenty years.
This is my lifeline in terms of how I and

(04:26):
we're going to get into. This is how we build
and connect, and so we wanted to share whatever we
know to be in service to other people. And then
the second thing that we both realized is we have
known each other now a couple of years because of
our networking skills. The beautiful and amazing Barbera Best in
Chicago introduced you and I and she leads with so

(04:50):
many of the attributes that we're going to talk about here,
which is curiosity and positive intention and generosity. And so
we thought, well, that's pretty cool. We're doing something because
we both believe philosophically and the power of relationship building.
But it's also a reason why you and I even
know each other.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, and we've otherwise would not have known each other.
We're in different cities, and you know, the minute we connected,
I think we have found so many meaningful ways that
we have been able to help one another, help other people.
So yes, it's sort of the living example.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah, so I'm really really excited because I know this
is going to help, and I know this is also
going to expand our awareness into the power of this
just by having the dialogue. So for everybody again listening, watching,
really really excited to share, and there's going to be

(05:49):
more to come from this. And so this is one
of those podcast conversations. We want feedback, we want exchange.
We're going to do a lot out on LinkedIn to
make sure this feels robust and again in service to
as many people as we can help.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
So let's begin by starting with the word.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Networking, which by the way, has a very very connotation.
It's kind a branding problem and needs a rebrand. It
really needs a rebrand, and that's really one of the
things that we're going to do here. So i'd first
like for you to share with us, how do you
define networking?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, so networking to me, and just to displace that
thought of it being in any way transactional to me,
it's about building authentic and mutually beneficial relationships and mutually
beneficial is an important component. I know we'll talk more

(06:53):
about that, where people can connect with one another, share information,
and support each other's growth and success in whatever that
means for each and both individuals. It's about genuinely getting
to know that other person and then establishing a connection

(07:15):
that can ideally lead to a long term, valuable relationship.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
And you just emphasize something really important there. It's genuinely
getting to know other people. And the way that I
would characterize it would build upon what you just said, is,
you know, I think of it as like building circles.
We're all in circles, and there's other circles that we
want to be a part of. And when you think
about making friends when you're going to school the first

(07:44):
time or you're starting your job the first time, a
lot of the same things that you do there relates
directly to this.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Notion of networking.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
I try to just reframe it as I'm building circles,
and I have circles through different things, and when I'm
trying to understand something, learn something, grow something, I get
into my circles or I create circles that don't exist,
and it takes a lot of the pressure off of oh,
I must transact and that's the thing that I wanted

(08:16):
to spell. It's not it has the transactional return often,
but that if you're leading with a transactional mindset, which
is what can I get or how can I advance something,
it feels a lot more intense and pressure.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Would you agree, yes, I totally agree. I also think
it's more likely to be disappointing if you're looking at
it in that one to one way transactional way that
you know what am I going to get or where
am I going to get to? So what is really
perhaps hard to get at the get go is that

(08:58):
you have to build the connection first and then those
great things will happen. But it's not linear. So I
love the idea of the circle because you just cannot
know exactly what's going to lead to what. But if
what you're focused upon is the building of the relationship
and the authenticity of that and really showing up in

(09:24):
a way that other people can trust in who you are,
see that you're invested in, you really care about who
they are and their interests and what they're trying to do,
then those great things can happen. But if you don't
start with that base, I think there is a higher

(09:44):
likelihood of disappointment. I mean, you might get the get
that you are focused on, but it's less likely if
you don't start with the relationship.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
You know, it's just.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
Thinking of again real world example right right now, in
in this environment where uh, there's there's there's a lot
of attrition and organizations, there's a lot of interest in
changing roles, changing industries, and and if and if you're
in the position where you haven't been active in the

(10:19):
relationship building space, it can feel really scary, really really overwhelming.
And so I think what what you just said is
again this notion of building genuine relationships, it takes a
lot of that transactional pressure off. Is Oh, I'm just
getting in the dialogue. I'm just beginning conversations. I'm I'm

(10:40):
showing and demonstrating my curiosity and my skill set just
by the nature of how I reach out and what
I ask in those in those conversations where I'm trying
to understand.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I'm really glad you're making a point around that
in terms of, you know, career transitions, because there's an
awful lot of that going on and I have conversations
I would say, like several times a week right now
with people who seem to almost be confessing to me that,

(11:12):
you know, I haven't kept up with my network the
way I could or should have, and they seem to
have feelings about that, and I think that I understand that,
and yet it's not helpful, like it won't serve you,
that's behind you. I often like to say, don't look back,

(11:32):
You're not going that way. So you know, in the
look forward, you can you can start doing this at
any time, and so you know, if you haven't done
it in the past, okay, well you can start. You
can start doing it today and it can start being
powerful for you tomorrow. But it's a chip away. I
really look at it as a way of working and living,

(11:57):
not as like an activity that I sometimes delve into.
You know, when you practice anything over many years, you
do it as part of who you are, as opposed
to like I'm doing a thing. And I think the
more you can look at it as a relationship, and
the more you can look at it as this is

(12:17):
part of me how I operate, you know, finding that
authentic way to do it for yourself, the less you'll
ever have to deal with that daunting feeling again, because
the engine's always warm and the engine's always going, you're
not starting from like start, trying to start up that
engine and then stop it, and then start it and

(12:38):
then stop it.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
You made a great point because this is a way
of being.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Yes, it isn't an activity that you have to engage
in again to be transactional. If you think about everything
in your life, personal and professionals, that's a form of networking.
When you need babysitters, when you need a plumber, when
you need some service to come to your home, or
you need something for your children, you need a good

(13:04):
pediatrician or whatever it is, you're exercising your networking skills
just with the nature.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Of doing that.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
And then again, I like to think of it as
building circles. You have circles people around you.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yes, And it's the same idea. You know. I have
many favorite books, as I know you know. Atomic Habits
is one of my favorites, and they talk about that
idea of like, whatever habit you want to develop, if
you think about it in terms of your own identity,
you have a better shot at developing the habit. So
I am athletic and it helps you get out and

(13:40):
go for a run, because because I'm an athletic person,
that's part of who I am as opposed to I
have to go run, which like an activity. The other
thing that I'll say from that book is, and speaking
back to your circles, is that if you want to
form any kind of a habit, surround yourself with other

(14:01):
people who do that habit. And so I think we
all know people who do a lot of connecting. You know,
you and I do that. There's a lot of people
out there who make it their business to do that,
and so I think thinking about people you know who
are natural connectors and how can you have that or

(14:23):
deep in that relationship with them can help you. It
just kind of rubs off on you in a way,
like whatever that you know, that habit that you're trying
to embody and bring into your identity.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
It's a perfect segue because we started getting into this
in terms of the why it matters, and you shared
some really powerful statistics that I want to put out there,
and then talk about the why people aren't engaging. So
eighty percent say networking is essential to career success. Seventy

(14:58):
nine percent say it's cure to key to career progression.
Seventy nine percent of jobs are gained through networking, not
like job boards, but yet there's a ton of disconnect
and only forty eight percent consistently stay in touch. The
barriers are discomfort, time skills, feeling inauthentic, and it often

(15:21):
feels transactional and it holds people back. So tell me
your thoughts. Why do you think they are? Those are
the barriers?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Where's it coming from.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I think that there's a gravitational pull, particularly when you
are busy in life and busy in your career, to
get head down, I'll call it. And so you're in
your day to day and then the idea of taking
the time to connect because there's not an immediacy to

(15:55):
what that's going to do for you, versus the immediacy
that you get from doing a critical task for your job,
doing a critical task for your home life, doing a
critical tax that you have to do, be it your
next step on your taxes or something for your home
or whatever it is, and it just gets put over there.

(16:16):
And I think the lack of immediacy of the need
can be just it just makes it invisible and set
to the side. But they think the other really important
one is and you set it right up from the
ickick factor around networking. I think it's not terribly dissimilar

(16:39):
to the ick factor that people often feel about sales.
It's this sense of I don't want to come at
somebody looking for something that they don't want to do
with me. I can feel transactional. It can feel a

(16:59):
little slimy, and I think that that whole mindset around it.
I get it because there is a certain kind of
sales that is that way, and there is a certain
kind of networking that is that way. But if you
do it in the way that we have been describing,
it's the opposite of that. And not only have I

(17:19):
seen that people are very responsive, not one hundred percent
of people, And we can talk a little bit about
there are some people who will stay in the transactional space.
It's a way minority group in society, but there are
some of those people. But for the vast majority of people,
when you start developing those circles and you're connecting authentically,

(17:40):
it's the opposite of all that. It's like the non
ick You have these authentic moments, and there's actually great
research showing that like that kind of human connection enhances
our happiness. So I think sometimes as we're going not
to get too existential, but like as we're going through
our lives, and if we're down, instead of head up

(18:02):
and developing those relationships and going out of our way
to make those connections, if we're head down, we can
end up feeling quite lonely and overburdened. So we're like
super busy and technically we're interacting with a lot of people,
but we feel lonely. Whereas if we take that time
to really be authentic, you have to let go though

(18:24):
of exactly what am I going to get from this?
So it is a different kind of mindset.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
I could not agree more.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
And what I would add is some of the things
that I'm seeing and hearing because talking to a lot
of people that are going through this, it kicks up
a ton of insecurity and fear.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I haven't done this in a while.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
I've been in my institution, if you will, whatever my
industry is, whatever you want to call it, whatever the
company is, and I'm limited in my capacity to do it.
And so part of it is breaking that barrier down
to say, you're telling yourself something that isn't accurate. You
have a lot to offer, You're genuinely curious, and so

(19:10):
I find a lot of it is reminding yourself on
who you are and what you bring to the world and.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
How interesting you are.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
And so isn't isn't It isn't about I can't do
this because I haven't done this in a while. This
is not a muscle that I've access to. It's I'm
still just as interesting, and I have a lot to offer,
and I'm still just as curious as I've ever been.
But now I have to do it in a different
system or in a different space. And that, to me
is the transition. Is if you can just frame it

(19:41):
as this is just a different space that I'm going
to be in.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
But I'm still the same person.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
I still have these amazing qualities and attributes that made
me really smart and really successful. I just have to
do it differently now, and I have to learn a
new system, which is what's the system I'm trying to
get into. It's in a different industry, it's a different
group of people again, it's a different circle, right.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Still me, Yeah, I think it's really important.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I can do it my way. You know, what's authentic
to me. So two things I want to mention on that,
you know, if you are a person who the idea
of going into a big room at a conference and
floating around and talking to a bunch of people and
making as many connections as possible is something that makes
you want to go.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Get one of them.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Set.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
By the way, I can't all, Oh, you don't.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Have to do it that way. You know, you can
do it. Some people are great in those venues, But
you don't have to do it that way. You can
do it in a way that's authentic to you. You
can do it in a one to one setting. You
can find small group settings, create small group sets. It
doesn't have to be in those big venues. If that's

(20:52):
like immediately where your brain goes. And the second thing
that I also want to mention I think so often
people think about networking primarily in terms of career advancement
and career changes, and so again that's part of why
I think there's this start stop nature, because it's like, oh,

(21:13):
I'm good, I'm over here working. I'll you know, drum
up the network when and if I need. But there
are a lot of other really tangible things that can
happen for you and happen for others with strong networking
as just like have it in your life. There's the
overall advancement within So networking within your own organization, really

(21:38):
knowing people in different functions at different levels is very
critical to overall advancement within the company. Business growth. The
idea of just growing your acumen. So the more that
you are exposing yourself to others that you can learn

(21:59):
from the give and take of knowledge. You know, you
think about today in this fast paced, AI driven world
that we're in knowing people who may know more about
a topic than you do and vice versa. So your
ability to develop knowledge. And then lastly, I would just say,
and this may sound kind of general, but personal development,

(22:23):
So that ability to build your confidence, build your inner
personal skills, learn a new skill, expand your thinking. So
there's many benefits beyond just yeah, you know, I need
to find someone who helped me find a new job.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
You're touching upon the power of the mindset here because
now we've defined it from our vantage points, but now
we're really expanding.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Here's the upside. As soon as you decide I just.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Want to get in a dialogue, I want to learn.
I want to expand my perspective whatever you want to
call it. As soon as you side to expand your
capacity in this space, it's really limitless what it can do.
And so what I want to do is you touched
a little bit about the atomic habits, but I also
know you're an Adam Grant fan. I am, and so

(23:17):
let's talk about the mindset because I think that is
also a differential when we're talking about this, and I
think that's something that has made you and I a
bit unique in terms of how we have done what
we've done for over twenty years.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
So talk to me about givers mattress.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Takers from albrid which is something that you refer to
a lot.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, Adam Grant has he's very prolific, so he has
many things. He's got great, great content. But the book
Give and Take is something that made a huge impression
upon me, and in fact, I wish I had read
it years before I did read it. So Give and
Take is all about the idea of and he's very

(23:59):
real search backed with all of this in our world,
what are the natural inclinations that people have? And he
cites some really fascinating statistics around giving, taking, and matching.
And so the top twenty percent of most successful people

(24:21):
and that is defined in terms of career progression, achievement
of goals, things of that nature, are givers and the
bottom twenty percent least successful are givers. And then I'll
talk about the matches and takers in a second. But
the difference between those two is that the givers who

(24:42):
are at the top, they are strategically doing it in
an authentic way to themselves and they're being mindful of
their own goals and those that they're interacting with. The
people who are at the bottom are giving in in
a non strategic way, and so they get they get

(25:05):
stretch toothin. They often can get a feeling of being
put upon, or they just cannot succeed in all the
ways that they're trying to give because they're just trying
to give to too many people in too many ways.
Stretch toothin, you're for everyone, you're helpful to really no
one in between. Then you have matchers and takers. So

(25:27):
matchers are people who just have tend to have it's
kind of fine, but they have a tendency to want
that tit for tat. So if I give you a
connection someone to meet. Let's say I'm holding that and
I expect you to give me one back like you're

(25:47):
keeping score, like you're keeping score. And so it does
start to take you a little bit into a transactional space.
And so that's the kind of thing you can kind
of sniff it. You can kind of get a takers.
And I don't remember the percentage, but it was a
quite small percentage. But you know, takers are people who

(26:10):
aren't really thinking about any kind of the give back.
And here's the part that I thought was the most
fascinating was that takers can sniff out the givers who
are at the bottom rung, and so they tend to
kind of exploit people who are willing to just give
and give and give of their time, and they tend
to take advantage in that space. I don't even think

(26:30):
it's conscious necessarily, but there can be a dynamic there.
So with all of that, the kind of giving that
we're talking about the developing of circles, doing the networking
in a non transactional manner, you do want to have
a really strong idea of how are you trying to

(26:53):
grow and what do you have to give and who
are the people that you think that you're best doing
that with, so that you can be in that top
percent and not in that bottom percent. So you do
have to have a notion around what is it that
you're trying to do. So I'll use myself as an example.
A big part of what I am doing in the

(27:15):
connecting that I'm doing on a regular basis is I
am growing my business, and so I make it my
business to talk to people who are relevant to the
business that I run. So I talk to a lot
of senior marketers. I talk to a lot of what
I call strategic partners, you know, people who are doing

(27:37):
complementary services and we help one another. And so I'm
not spending my time with people who are heavily in
other functions that I don't have expertise, and I'm not
saying I won't talk to them, but it's not a
key part of what I'm focused upon. And you just

(28:00):
think about Genny, like, we only have twenty four hours
in a day, right, and you can't spend all day
on connecting because you have all of the realities of
the other things you have to do. So that's part
of how I think about my strategy of it, and
where I think Adam Grant is so spot on is
you know there are things that you will need to

(28:20):
say no to, you know, so that you can do
really well in the things that you're saying yes to,
true in life and true and connecting for sure.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
And it goes back to so we both share a
service mentality. It's something we believe in value, but we
also have to have boundaries around it and have awareness
to what is it we're trying to do, how do
we want to be in service? And the person who
it changed how I viewed networking. I read a book

(28:52):
number of years ago. I still have it in my office,
Never Eat Alone, by Keith Ferrazzi, and what I loved
about it is he is a very simple philosophy. And
my favorite thing he used to say is you're only
as good as your network. And if you think about that,
so almost like you're only as good as the company
you keep.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
It's a representative of you.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Yes, that was it really really worked for me and
the others. Is help others to succeed first, Yes, And
sometimes that's hard to do when you when you are
trying to advance something or you're trying to create something
you may have an inclination to say, hey, we have
a thirty minute touch base and I got to get

(29:33):
I got to get to.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Something at the end.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
But if you can catch yourself and say, what would
be some good questions that I would ask to take
this conversation a step deeper, yes, and start to ask
even the simple question of is how can I be
in service to you?

Speaker 3 (29:48):
What is it you're looking to do?

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (29:51):
What your talk?

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Starting there? As opposed to starting with whatever it is
you're trying to accomplish. And that can be hard, particularly
if you are seeking to find a new job or
you're seeking career advancement. But if you really do try
to understand where that person is coming from first, and
what are their challenges, what are they seeking to accomplish,

(30:14):
what's in their way, what's heavy on their mind? You know, again,
you have to establish that core base of authenticity so
that they're going to be willing to share those things
with you. But it's having you know, there's so many
great questions that you can ask, and I've always just
led with the questions and the more I can learn

(30:37):
about the person that I'm trying to be in service too,
and I want to be in service to me as well,
so we can have that mutual benefit. More I get
to know that that core of what they're trying to
do and what may be difficult for them, the better
job I can do. And typically you can find a

(30:59):
way of helping that person with whatever that is, and
you may have to get quite creative and it might
not be right away, but the more you can do
the help first at noetak. At my company, one of
our core values is helping kindness, and it's help first.

(31:19):
We always talk about it in terms of help first,
like really try to be the first one to the
table with giving that help, and.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
That actually builds on something else is when you think
about you're going to get into service mentality, you want
to see how you can help and offer something. The
other thing that he talks about is you can't get
there alone and you don't want to.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
And that promotes this notion of its circles. It's communities.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yes, don't want you. You don't want you because it's
lonely right. No, I mean we've all read and heard
so many and perhaps even experience at first, and like
when you get to the end of your life, you know,
people aren't talking about like, I got to this level

(32:07):
at this company. You know, I accomplished this. I accomplish that. No,
Like it comes down to the relationships that you've had
and the connections that you've made, because that's where our
happiness is.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
The last thing I'd offer in terms of mindset is
I can't remember where I picked this up, but and
whoever is who offered this to me and I can't recall.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
I apologize.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
But one of my favorite things is whether it's in
a meeting setting or an executive coaching circle, or even
if it's just a new connection. I get introduced to
people all the time. I think of it in terms
of ask, offer, acknowledge. So I'm asking certain questions because
I'm going to do my research, and I know we're

(32:51):
going to get into the dos and don'ts. I do
my research, I figure out, you know, who are they
in the world, and I love to hear people's stories,
so I ask a lot of questions, and then I
get into how can I be in service? So I'm
offering and then the acknowledged piece is really interesting because
I acknowledge their contributions, their time. But I also do
a lot on the follow up to make sure I've

(33:13):
acknowledged their contributions to me to that conversation, especially if
it's led to something else. And so I'm just putting
it out there. Is a powerful mindset, ask, offer, acknowledge,
and there's lots of ways you can play that into
your life.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
But it's something that really really stuck with me.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
And with the acknowledge, I think you're touching on a
really critical piece there that I have observed that people
can miss, which is the follow up. So when someone
does help you with something, or a connection has been
made or you're helping them or whatever. Either way, wherever

(33:54):
that give or that get is follow up and ask
how it went. If you were someone making a connection,
or maybe they had a job interview, or maybe they
were trying out something new, follow up and ask how went.
That's a key part of keeping that mutual and authentic

(34:15):
relationship alive and healthy, and it also can displace for
things that may have gone wrong that you would want
to know about. So one of the things I know
you do a lot of We've done it for each
other and I do a lot of as well, as
is the connecting or you know, introducing, and I always

(34:36):
go for what I call the double opt in, so
I check with each person and make sure that they
are a yes before I just throw somebody at somebody else.
I give them context for one another, so you know,
everybody knows what's coming. But even still with that, not
everybody follows through. Most of the time they do if

(34:56):
you do that upfront, you know, thinking about it and
getting it well set up. But nonetheless, sometimes things happen.
And so I have been surprised at times when I
followed up with people, and sometimes they're like, oh my gosh, yes,
I meant to follow up with you. It was awesome
and it led to this and this and this. But
sometimes people will say, yeah, I never I never heard

(35:19):
back from him or her. And you want to know
that because that's.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
A reflection on you, and you're only as good as
your network.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yes, and people get busy, right, and so it may
then I might go and then nudge that other person
in not a shameful way, but in a like, hey,
is this still relevant for you? Typically they're like, oh gosh, yes,
and then and then it happens. So so part of
your acknowledge that I think is so critical and it's
part of that keeping it going so it doesn't go transactional.

(35:52):
Is that thoughtful follow up?

Speaker 4 (35:55):
So let's let's step back and get into where someone
would begin. Or maybe you're a college student getting ready
to graduate, because here we are, this is going to
be whosted in the next couple of weeks, which is
right around graduation season. Or maybe you're somebody that's in transition,
or maybe you're somebody that is thinking about switching careers.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
Where do you begin? You talk about the word intension,
so say a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
There, Yes, So I recommend that people just sit down
and launder list, brainstorm, like what are the things that
I think being better connected could afford me? And it
might be so start with your what you want to get.
Start there because it's heavy on your mind anyway, and
so you may know exactly you know, I'm seeking a

(36:43):
new job, or I'm seeking to expand my network so
I can advance my career. I'm not looking for a
difference now, or I just you know, I don't know
a lot of people in this field. Like whatever it is, like,
write it down and then narrow it down to no
more than three things that would be those great gets
for you over time. And then, and this may be

(37:07):
a little bit harder, make a list of what you
have to offer and really, like in a kind way,
say to yourself, I've a lot to offer. What do
I know about and who do I know that might
be helpful to other people? So that your engine is
warm to those ideas. Now you're not going to go

(37:29):
into your conversations and say, here are the things that
I have to get right, but you're going to be
able to make those connections as you then start doing
that inquiry when you meet with people. So I think
getting your gives and get your potential gives and gets
focused and articulated for yourself are really important. And then

(37:52):
think about who are those people? And it's quality not quantity,
So really thinking about who do I already know that
I could reach out to and ask for a conversation,
and then in that conversation lead with inquiry.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
And what you're really highlighting is have consciousness to what
you're doing and why it matters, Like why is this
something that's of importance to you? And you know, going
back to this mindset is we both don't look at
this like a project plan that we pick up once
a month. It's embedded into how we see the world,

(38:34):
what we do on a daily basis. Is it never
it never ends. So if you're very aligned with intention
and you start with Okay, what am I trying to
do here?

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Why does it matter?

Speaker 1 (38:46):
And you can shift it over time too, you know,
you can add to it and you can change it.
But getting that blank page a little bit populated, I
think is a is a really great place to start.
And you know, as life goes on, you may end
up having a different kind of thing. So one of
the things I'm working on right now is I'm doing
a board readiness program and once I complete that, I

(39:12):
will be looking for public board opportunities and those are
typically you know, that's on my list, and those are
typically things that happen vast majority happen through connections and networking. Unsurprising, right,
And so that's something that will be like new on
my list. So it doesn't have to be static. It

(39:36):
may be looking for career progression today, it may be
looking for a different role tomorrow. And I do want
to say, Jeanie, if we have listeners who are listening
to this and thinking to themselves, well, you know, I'm
young in my career, or i've you know, neglected my network,
Like I'm not sure what I have to give right now,

(40:00):
mus you you do, and I'll give you a quick example.
I met with this young woman recently. She's young in
her career and she's looking for a career progression and
potentially a career move, and frankly, I'm well connected with
her parents, and that's how I was connected with her.

(40:20):
She led with inquiry with me, and based upon what
she learned about me because of the great questions she asked,
she discovered that my youngest daughter was looking for an
internship in marketing. And by the end of our discussion,
she asked me, if relevant, would you want to connect

(40:41):
your daughter to me? Because I went through that process
not all that long ago, and she followed up and
now they have a relationship as part of that circle. So,
you know, here's somebody who's I don't know how many
years younger than me, but quite a few, right, had
something amazing to give. So so everybody has something to offer,

(41:03):
even if you have neglected your network for a while,
or you're younger in your career, like wherever you're at,
you have wonderful things to give. And so when you
sit down to write down what you would like to
get and what you would like to give, give yourself
that generosity in your mind of what are those things
that I have to offer? Because you do.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
That's a great story, and that's a great example. I'll
offer one as well that comes to mind. And this
is an example of this is somebody I hadn't spoken
to in a couple of years, but I admire them deeply,
and she had posted something on LinkedIn that really struck
a chord for me. So I private messaged her, Hey,
it's been a while we haven't talked about I loved

(41:46):
what you talked about with X, Y and Z. And
she was like, Genie, we know we have a positive history,
and let's grab lunch. And so I had a cancelation
that Friday. So I was like, great, let's go meet
for lunch. And we reconnected on so many levels, so
many life things that we have in common, and she said, well, why.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Don't why don't we do lunch in my office next time.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
So a couple of weeks later and she said, oh,
by the way, I've flipped it.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
We're going to do a lunch and learn. Is that
okay with you? And I was like, lunch and.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Learn about what right right?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
And she simply knew you do a lot of the
executive presence work and communications. We're going if you just.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
Did like a quick how to and we'll get twenty
five to thirty people there. I was like sure, and
I was going to be in the city anyway, and so,
and this is a subject that I love. And it
turns out they have a huge need for coaching for
one of their leadership levels. And so now it's turned
into all these other things purely because I saw something

(42:48):
that resonated for me, which really rekindled our friendship because
it really meant a lot to her. And then it
turned into all these other opportunities. And then I have
been able to connect some of the people who reach
out to me to other people for other things.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
And all of that came from one one thing.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
One time I took the time it should that minute right,
like it's probably like a minute, And then you also
followed it with saying yes. So I think that's another
critical thing, is just being open, you know, and it
can be hard because again, we have various things that
get in the way for us with that maybe maybe
we're not extroverted, you know, or our business or all

(43:31):
the other barriers we talked about. But the saying yes
is a critical part too. Without specifically knowing, you didn't know,
you thought you were going for lunch right then you
said so you you opened up to it. Then then
you said yes to the lunch and learn, and then
that led to this whole other path. So it's that
that openness as well, that you are applying, that you

(43:53):
applied to that situation that's still going.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
And the other thing is took effort for sure to
do it. But I was open to the effort. And
I think that's the other thing that will hold people
back is everything we're talking about. This takes time, this
takes energy, This takes effort, but the returns are so
they're so powerful on every level. And again, if you're

(44:21):
rooted into the interest of being in service and really
making a genuine connection with somebody, it also makes it
more fun, more interesting, more fulfilling.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
I was so.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Excited to be in that space with all these new people, which,
by the way, is a company that was not on
my radar. It what they do is also not something
that was on my radar, and I had a lot
of other things that day I could have done, and thought, no,
this is something. This also meant a lot to the
person that I connected with, and it made me feel

(44:57):
so full and happy and a lot because of something
that I decided to make the effort on.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
So I didn't want to skip that because I thought
that was really really important.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
The other thing that I'd love for you to share
here is this goes back to the atomic habit's mindset.
You talked about some really tactical things that people could
do to begin, So I'd.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Love for you to share.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, so I think that writing out your intention and
then so you're what i'd like to get what I'd
like to give, which that is a transactional list I
will I will acknowledge, but it helps you set your
overall strategy. I'm a big list maker. So in addition
to that list, I also recommend people generate a list

(45:44):
of who do you already know that you think would
meet with you and reach out to at least three
and book time. You can do it this way where
you're in virtual you can book a live coffee if
there's someone that's nearby you and think about what do

(46:04):
you think would be an easy yes for that person.
Perhaps you ask for ten minutes if you think that
there's someone.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Who's yes, crazy, yes, I love that.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Easy yes, right, and then for that so let's say
you get you get the meat right. So, bearing in
mind that I don't know who that who these people
are going to be for you, I think there's some
very important tactical things to do. Be present for that dialogue.

(46:36):
You really have to hone in on where you are
and what you're doing. You don't want to be distracted.
You want to really hone in and be there. Be
it ten minutes, be at thirty sixty, whatever it is,
and make sure you've done your research beforehand. So even
if this is a person that you have known for
some time, we have so many great tools out there.

(47:00):
Look them up on LinkedIn. Look not just at you know, title, role, tenure,
but look at their posts. See what they've been up to.
You know, AI also can be you know, and I
might sound creepy to say it, but find out what's
going on with them. It's it's there. Some people have
a bigger footprint than others. But even then, when you

(47:21):
do that, you know and have that prepared. When you meet,
start with the inquiry, so you will have that backdrop,
maybe a little or a lot, depending upon how you
know loud they are and their digital footprint. But then
when you actually meet, start with that inquiry. Ask how
they are and really listen. Follow up with questions about them.

(47:44):
Some people will quickly want to turn that table and
ask about you, and that's fine. Don't don't fight that,
but make sure that you just have some really good,
open ended questions. I love and a couple of my
friends make fun of me for this, but one of
my favorite questions. If someone says something, they kind of
throw something out there and it's interesting, but you're not

(48:06):
exactly sure what it means. I'll just say say more
about that, And it's amazing that it helps people know,
like I actually really want to know what you're talking about.
I would like to understand that better. So those are
some of the things I think to get going.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
So this is the perfect segue into some of the
dos and don'ts because we have a coolest of dues.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
So what are some of the Jews?

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, so the dues are don't be distracted present, do
your research before you connect and make sure that you
have I'm going to say, I'm going to be really
specific here at least three good questions to go in with.

(48:58):
Think about the setting too, So are you what is
the easy yes? Right? Are you asking the person for
a virtual which is probably the easiest, but you may
know that this is a person who really would probably
just prefer the phone. You know, go for the mode
that you think is going to be the right setting

(49:19):
for them. If you are meeting in person, you know,
don't go to the coffee shop where you know it's
so loud that you're not going to be able to
hear each other or they or they tend to rush
you through, you know, go to the place I have
a couple, go to places where I know the like,
it's nice lighting, you can hear one another and they
don't rush you out. So make sure you have the

(49:39):
right the right setting there. And then the follow up.
The follow up is so important. I think it's the
place where I where most people fall down because we
get busy. But if someone has taken the time particularly
to meet with you at your asking, so important that
you do that follow up. If all the follow up

(50:00):
is is a very sincere thank you, that's great. But
if there was some sort of suggestion they had for you,
a connection they were going to make for you and
you for them, that you follow up and you make
sure that those actions are thoughtfully done in a timely manner.
You don't have to send a thank you the same day,

(50:22):
like I think it's okay for it to be a
day or two later. And I tell people with connections,
you know, this may take a few days because I'm
going to talk to that other person and make sure
that they're open to having this connection with you too,
and so just expectations set. But as you said, the acknowledge.
Part of the acknowledge is that really thoughtful follow up

(50:47):
very importantly if you are job searching and one of
your big reasons for doing the networking is that have
prepared what your ideal position would look like and ideally
cite companies where you're looking for connections. In other words,

(51:09):
make yourself easy to help.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
It's very hard for someone to help you if you
say something general to them like I've been you know,
senior in consumer package goods working in a marketing role
and I'm looking to exit that category. That doesn't give

(51:33):
me enough, right, it's like okay, well there's a whole
other world of like what might that be? Whereas if
someone's able to say to me, I have a specific
interest in financial services, particularly mid size banks, you know
some of the ones that really rise to the top
for me, or X, Y and Z, and so in particular,

(51:53):
I'm very interested if you know anybody at those organizations
and or are you open to my looking at your
LinkedIn contacts to see if there's that So in whatever form, like,
be as specific as you can be while not being
narrow so that you're easy to help.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
And the thing that I would add is also talk
about it in your email. So put it put in
an email because what I'll often say is make it
so easy so that I know exactly how to introduce you.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
What do you want me to say? Yes?

Speaker 4 (52:28):
So so write it out in a way where you
know exactly what this person is looking for, who they are,
and you're going to pick up some things also in
that networking conversation. That's really really important. But always think
about it is what is it you want me to
say when I'm making that introduction.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Yes, and offer to draft the language for them. And say,
you know, you can tailor this in any way you like,
but here's draft language that you can cut and paste from.
Love it makes it's so much easier, I think for
people to go from the link page people are busy,
it's going to take twice as long, Whereas if you
hand it to them and you keep it brief and hardworking,

(53:08):
they'll use it.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
We we talked a little bit about some of the
don'ts already, and I think probably if you get nothing
from this conversation, it's it's the don't wait, begin immediately,
make it a part of who you are. The being
laid or casual distracted you already talked about within person,
but the same applies virtually is make sure you're in

(53:32):
a quiet space, there's not a lot of stuff behind you,
all off and joke around saying.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
This is the set of your show, and so what
do you what do you want in your show?

Speaker 4 (53:41):
And you know all of this is this is home
goods and that's you know, an artist, and this speaks
more about my personality and my my my interest in
the world, and so I think all of that matters.
The other thing is don't don't ghost people. If if
you've made an honest, genuine connection, maintain it. And also

(54:02):
don't ignore connection requests. Not every connection request is worth
maybe your time or what you're.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Interested in, but look at it. Don't ghost people.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Again that the world is really, really small. And you
talked about not forgetting the follow up or acknowledging the
introducer as well, is don't forget to go back to them.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Remember you're as good as your network.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
So if Nancy's introduced me to so and so, and
I had a great conversation or a bad conversation, go
back to the introducer and make sure they're.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
In the loop.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
And then the last thing I'll say is don't assume
that it's a private conversation.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
People will share their.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
Impressions of you, so it is really really important. Remember
you're an extension of your that's an extension of your circle.
So what happens in that really really and again, we've
talked so much about how this can enhance and expand

(55:05):
so many aspects.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Of your life.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
So that is our dos and don'ts for everybody, and
that's going to be something that we're going to.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Drive home a lot on LinkedIn.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
So always looking for ideas and different things that work
and don't work for all the things that everything, everything
that everyone here is doing already. So let's go to
the to the end here, Nancy, because we have some
interesting thoughts around wrap up and take away.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
I think one of the things that we've talked about here.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Which I think is really important, is I want you
to think of networking like it's it's like a hit
class or or you're maintaining your health. It's you need consistency,
you want to do it on a regular basis. It's
it's not something that's like a project plan you pick up.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
It's something that's a.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
Part of your life, your career, your business, how you
see the world. And we've all also talked about it's
not just for professional there's a there's a big piece
here that talks about your personal life bbsitter doctor referral.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
And we talked a lot about the mindset.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
And that this is this is a muscle you can
you can build and strengthen and expand upon. And my
favorite is like your connections are really your competitive edge.
We didn't say it that explicitly, but that very much
is what we're talking about here. It's because it's a
flywheel right flywheel.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah, and so once you really get that rolling, you know,
there's a there's a lot of power in that and
it's and it's it will distinguish you because people feel
and know that they can trust you and you them.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
So how I'd love to close here because I'm going
to pose some questions and I and I'd love for
you to make one big ask of everybody following here.
So my closing is, I want you to think about
how connected are you? Not in terms of followers or context,
but in terms of real relationships. I want you to
evaluate your network. What is your ask.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Of everybody following and listening today?

Speaker 1 (57:13):
I would like to ask everyone following and listening today
to reach out to at least one person today that
you feel would have mutual benefit for you both. And
as you're listening to me, make the ask, perhaps someone

(57:35):
even popped into your mind, go with that. Now, still
do the steps of you know, think about the reach
out and what's going to be the easyes for them,
and you want to prepare, but just start, Like the
best way to start is to just start.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
So, Nancy MacDonald ruder, such a pleasure this conversation.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
It's always such a pleasure to be with you, Jennie.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
I've always feel fuller in my heart every time we
spend time together.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
And I'm really.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Excited to see how this helps others that are listening
and watching me too.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
And I know you and I always news that maybe
it's our New Jersey roots North Jersey. Yeah, but I am.
I am honored and blessed to have you in my circles.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
Thank you, Thank you for joining me for another episode
of the Warriors at Work Show. If you are interested
in learning more about what we do at the Warriors
at Work Show and platform, be sure to go over
to my website Jeanie Coomber and subscribe to my monthly
Warrior Playbook newsletter. I share everything that I'm up to

(58:53):
month by month, as well as some lessons and insights
that I've learned. I'm also interested in hearing any feedback
you have about this conversation or future topics, so reach
out to me directly on JC at Geniecomber dot com
or on LinkedIn. Be sure to tell your friends and
your colleagues about this Warriors at Work Conversation, Subscribe, review,

(59:16):
and rate us. It's the best way to get this
message out into the world, be well,