47: Idiots Talking Idioms

Dean and Tom have truly “fallen down the rabbit hole” in this episode as they explore different idioms across cultures, offering context as well as advice on what to do when faced with unknown idioms on your travels. (A preview: An idiom in another country may feel like it “comes out of left field,” but give yourself some grace - you’re not an ‘idiom idiot’!) We know that you’ll enjoy listening to this idiotic idiomatic episode “as soon as possible” (when is this? that’s up to you!) because you’re all “pieces of bread”, “salt of the earth”, and other figurative fundamental foodstuffs! ***Subscribe to Dean’s Substack here to find all of Dean’s “Culture’s Consequences” articles, CultureQuizzes, and much much more!*** Have a cultural question or episode idea? Reach out on X/Twitter & Facebook (@OopsCultureShow) or by email at [e-mail]. Music: “Little Idea” – Bensound.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- Well, things annoying people are kind
of what we're about, aren't
- We?
Well, it's certainly apodcast possibility ,
because I'm sure that in other cultures,
what is annoying in one is not necessarily
in another and vice versa.
- Well, I'm just saying that that's true.
I think, you know, when that'skind of annoying actually,
your response just thenit, it was .
Well, okay. Only in that

(00:20):
- I didn't even say, I- Didn't even address it to you.
I mean, what, geez. Oh,everything is addressed to me.
- But, but to your point,is it to your point,
different cultures can take it,
and you don't even mean it tobe, but it's taken that way.
- Well, well see. Exactly.
And I'm, I'm saying I think
the cultural aspect, there we go.

(00:40):
The cultural aspect of thisis, in one way, is that people
will take it in that form,
- Even if it wasn't meant that- Way.
Absolutely. So, and youmight not know that.
And that gets you in trouble. So
that's why we are talkingabout it on a regular basis,
- Because this is- Oops, oops. Your culture,
- Your culture showing.

(01:08):
- Well, speaking ofannoying, I'm Tom Peterson
and I'm here with Dean Foster.
Hello, Dean. Hello,
- Tom.
And you are rarely annoying.
I, I must say, I don't think most
of the time talking about me.
Most of the time annoying.
Not all the time, but most of the time
- Him being- Annoying .
Yeah. Well, I didn't take,I didn't take it that way.
You didn't take See whata support I am. Right.

(01:30):
- I see. So going along with Yes.
Our opening you, uh, you'resaying that depending on the,
how the person is taking it, that's going,
there's gonna be acultural element to that
- Always.
Right. And we have withus today in studio.
- Yes. Torin Peterson. TorinPeterson. Am I annoying?
Constantly annoying.Oh wait, whoops. Never.

(01:51):
So that's Sorry equalssometimes. Yeah, sure. We'll go
- With that.
We'll, we'll split.That sounds right. Yeah.
We'll split the difference right there.
- Yeah. Yeah. I'll accept that.
- This will be a wonderfulpodcast, by the way.
But we're not talking about annoying.
Well, we might be actually,
because we were talkingabout what to talk about.
Right. And we were talkingabout the po um, idioms. Really?
- Ah-Huh? idiomsare because we're idiots.

(02:12):
We weren't, but we are now.
Well, we were a littlebit, and I suppose some,
and then we were annoyedwe went there. I see. Okay.
- Some idioms could be annoying.
- Well, they could be. Yes.
- And to your point, yes.
Unintentionally, this wholeidea of intentionality,
you know, where I wouldnever intentionally
wanna annoy somebody.
Well, maybe, but

(02:33):
- .
- But, but what I'm doing isnow taken as annoying. Mm-Hmm.
- . Yes.Yes, yes. Well, yeah.
I mean, theoretically ittakes two in that you,
because the person speaking isn't annoying
unless there's a receiver of it.
We're getting philosophicalhere. Uh, well, yeah.
I mean, we're getting intoall sorts of heavy stuff in

(02:55):
- There.
This, this is the Martin Buber eye.
- V I'm grooving on it. Youknow what I'm saying? What, who?
- The who? Well, if you have to ask,
- What are we talking about now?
? I thought, I, I thought I heard
something we shouldn't be talking about.
I like Congressman
- Being very, very philosophical.
And I mentioned the, the MartinBuber of Phil philosopher.
Mm-Hmm. , his book, I vow.
It's about the interaction between the,

(03:17):
the object and the subject.
The speaker and the, and the intent
intended receiver. Now the
- Audience, I'm sorry, I I
nodded off in the middle of that .
Now the audience isannoyed. . Really?
They're getting a philosopher.There is no audience.
Oh, that's, that's good point.
Don't worry about it. Why am I
- Not a problem.
I didn't mean to be intentionallyannoying, but there I was.
- But it happened. Iwonder if there's an idiom
to cover this, because, uh, there must be.

(03:38):
There must be. I now let, let, let's,
let me ask this question though.
'cause idioms are usedall the time in, in, in,
in all, probably all cultures.And some, to some degree,
- I would imagine that's- True.
Mm-Hmm. . And sothey're, they're doing that.
But I would say that most people
don't know they're using thembecause they're so common.
Right. Definitely. Yeah.Right. So it's usually in all

(04:00):
- S it's usually- They're just using
without thinking. Right.
- As I understand, it'susually a phrase. Yeah.
Which, um, has a meaning thatis not apparently literal.
So the meaning maybe it literal,
but most of the time,
or oftentimes it's not,it's an implication.
And, and, and the reason youdon't understand it, if you're

(04:21):
of another culture, is
because you are not experiencingthose words the same way
you're experiencing them as translated.
- It requires a backgroundof either personal
or cultural context, historical,um, relativity context.
- You need the context.- Absolutely.
- Right. And, and,- But you,
but you're acquiring that,
that's the kind of thething I'm talking about.

(04:42):
You're acquiring that context
by your existence in the culture Yeah.
As opposed to having someoneexplain it to you. That's
- Right.
And that's where you getinto problems. Right.
When we would talk about, um,US American culture Mm-Hmm.
, for example.Mm-Hmm. . And if
we're talking about it toa non-US American, right?
We would play a little game sometimes and,

(05:03):
and say the US idiom,but take out a key word
and ask the non-Americanlistener to fill in
what they imagine thatmissing word might be.
Like. Here's the idiom from the us.
God helps those who help blank. Okay.
- Mm-Hmm. .- Okay.
Now, whenever we would say this

(05:25):
to somebody from China Chili,
- And if you're listening tothis, fill in the blank. Yeah.
- So, so if we said, if wesaid, what's the missing word?
God helps those who help blank.
And if we ask this questionof someone from China or Japan
or East, east Asia, inevitablythe response was very quick.
Oh, God helps those whohelps others. Mm-Hmm.

(05:46):
- . Okay. Hmm.
- And then we would say, whoops, wrong.
- Yeah. Because- The
- American, wrong in, in thecontext of the United States,
- The American idiom Yeah.
Is God helps those who helpthemselves. Right. Right.
- Right.- That's rough in my mind.
And then when we would explain that,
that would raise all sorts of problems.
Yeah. Because from an Asianperspective, that's selfish.

(06:07):
Sure. God's not gonna helpyou if you're selfish.
God's only gonna helpyou if you're selfless.
- Yeah. Which- Makes sense to me. Yeah. And
- Help others.
- Right,- Right. From a collectivist culture.
- Right, - Right. But notfrom an individualist culture.
Right. Right. Which is the USwhere we get rewarded by fate
or God or whoever gives outrewards, we get rewarded

(06:30):
for taking care of ourselves. Right.
- Right. - And that allowsus to take care of others.
- Right.- Because by being rewarded,
you've got money in the bank,
you can now start to take care of others.
So you develop a society thatdepends on, uh, philanthropy.
Right. As opposed to societal supports for
- That's a like an ongoing concept, right?

(06:52):
- Mm-Hmm,- . Okay. Interesting.
I also just realized that, I just said
before that I said,uh, if you're listening
to this , fill in the blank.
And, and if you're not,
- And if you're not listeningto it, don't. If you're
- Not listening to this, no,I would actually like them
to also fill in the, the blank. Oh, oh.
- I, - I'm sorry. I would likethem do's, even the people
who are not listeningto fill in the blank.

(07:12):
- I mean, this seems like a prime example
of Oops. Your culture showing.
- Exactly. Absolutely. That's fascinating.
But now how many timeshas that happened to,
to any, any of us, you know?
Right. Where we're in a foreign culture
and we hear somebody usean idiom of their culture,
and literally we interpretit through our own lens.
Mm-Hmm. . Yes. Right.

(07:34):
Um, or we have no ideahow to interpret it,
because the words, the literal translation
in English just makes
- No sense.
No sense at all. No sense at all.
And they, and they think too, and it,
and the opposite is true as well.
You, you interpret the other direction.
And, and our idioms in theUnited States are not going
to make sense in other languages, or,
- Or they're gonna be mostlikely, or they're gonna be

(07:55):
interpreted through theculture of the listener.
- Well, they're probably gonna do
that anyway. Right. Because that's why we,
- Like God helps those who help
- Others.
Right. Right. Yeah.
So you, and, and,
but if, if the language is different too,
they may just be interpreted incorrectly.
So that not at all what you're intending,
even if it was interpreted, um, well,

(08:16):
it won't be interpreted correctlythen at all, will it, if,
if you're getting, if the wordsused in the interpretation,
I've really gone down a rabbit hole.
- Yeah. It's diving in. Give
- Us an example.
Going down a rabbit hole. Well,
- There's one- I just thinking of.
Isn't that, isn't that an
- Yeah.
Going down a rabbit hole. Downa rabbit hole. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I was thinking of when pigs fly, see
- How clever and witty I am.
Excuse me. Well, that's

(08:36):
- Moving right along. .
- Um,- I was thinking of when pigs fly, right.
I mean, that's when I use all the time
without thinking about it.
Yeah. And someone could say,
why are we talking about pigs flying?
- That's right. Huh. Sure.- And I could see that very much
- Happening.
- There's no cultural context for
- Understanding, butI'll just be saying it,
and hopefully I try to have some awareness
that maybe someone didn't under, but,
- But I think that- Also probably would not,
- I think there's also anaspect to it that it, that goes

(08:58):
beyond internationalcultural uhhuh, uh, to,
to national cultural aspects.
Oh. And even just, um,corporate culture aspects
of using certain phrases thatare, are, are used in ways
that aren't used in otherparts of your state, your town.
Sure. Your your associates.Yeah. I could see that too.

(09:20):
And, and so you might usethem in the group and,
and you could very easilybe misconstrued Yeah.
In the, in the process of doing that.
There's a phrase, uh, in the United States
that is used pretty regularly, which,
and especially in businesstype of things, they might,
someone might bring something up
and you might say, well,that came outta left field.
And Right in, you have to
- Know, you have toknow baseball's in order

(09:41):
- To make sense. Lot
- IDs.
It's a baseball with's,a lot of baseball IDMs.
It's very good for idiom.Mm-Hmm. .
And, but also it's, it'sany kind of, there's a lot
of sports idioms in a lot of areas.
- Yeah. And I think I,- Well,
I'll touch base with youin the morning. Right,
- Absolutely. Particularly
- Baseball. I've noticed
- That idea is from leftfield. Yes. Well, it's
- Older- Too.
Yeah. That idea is from leftfield Uhhuh outta left field.
- Yep. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.There's a ton. Yeah. Yeah.

(10:03):
And, and, and it's absolutely it.
So it becomes kind of a, um, it's,
- You're in the ballpark.
- Absolutely. There'sYes. Yeah. There's a lot.
Well, that's, yeah. I, let'sjust ballpark this. Yeah.
People will say, andRight. You know, what,
- Is that a ballpark figure? But
- If you, but if you comefrom, but if you come from a
culture where we don't play baseball,
then you, it's essentially meaningless.

(10:24):
Right. It's meaning. Right. Or don't know
what it means. Maybe you
- Can, the thing is- Contextually figure it out. Right.
- You have to- Kind of work at that. But I don't even
think it's, it, it needs to be,
but my, I guess my point on that Mm-Hmm.
to climb out of the
- Rabbit hole- All down police.
Um, I It's a, it I'm sayingit's even if you have people
that don't know sports Yeah.

(10:45):
In the same culture. Right.
You're, you're, you're runninginto a mini culture aspect
of having it misinterpretedor not understood.
Right. That could have,there's sports even knowing,
even knowing the same language.
Right. Right. But it's not only sports.
I'm just using that one as
an example. I mean, there's, well,
- There's always culturesand subcultures and culture
- Break a leg.
Right, right. Right. What doesbreak a leg mean to a person

(11:07):
who doesn't understand show business?
Right. Right. Now in the United States,
that has become pretty common. Well,
- That's the thing, is it becomes, you,
you understand the meeting behind
- The literal meeting,they start to become, then
they become cultural.
- And so you don't worry about the literal
- Meeting internationallycultural, I think at that point,
because now you've got a vast,um, number of people in the,
in the culture using it.

(11:27):
Right. And thinking
that everybody's gonnaknow what that means. But
- Outside of the culture, ifyou hear someone say to you,
break a leg, you might be horrified.
Right. ,
I was in a situation,so listeners may know
that I did the Peace Corpsin Jordan several years ago.
And because it was so many years
ago, and I have very poor memory.

(11:48):
I don't remember the idiomthat I, so I was in a room
with some friends of friends,
and they said at Idiom,if I remember right,
I think it had to do with chickens.
Don't quite remember.Anyway, the point being,
they were just talkingcasually between themselves,
some friends of friends,and they said, happen
to say this idiom that I thinkit was related to chickens.
And I'm sort of overhearingwhile I'm doing something else.

(12:10):
And it's, in my mind,I'm listening more to
what they're saying, tryingto put it in context.
I cannot put it all into context.
So I'm really curious, what in
the world are they talkingabout with chickens?
Like, I don't think there'sany chickens around.
So a little time goes by andthen I approach one of them
and say, why, why were youtalking about chickens?
Or whatever it was? And .
And they, they had, theyexplained to me, oh, no, no, no.
This means somethingcompletely different. Right.

(12:30):
And I'm there thinking,you know, I've been, I've,
I was in Jordan about a yearand a half at that point.
So now I'm going throughthe process internally of,
you know, why, why didn't I know that?
Right. Yeah. So I've been there,
I've been there where it's like, I
- Think we all experience it,- You know,
had no idea what that meant in one way
- Or another. I think we really do.
- I remember growing up as a kid,
and my grandmother would say,
you should grow like an onionwith your head in the ground.

(12:51):
She wouldn't always say that to me, Uhhuh,
but she would say that to others, Uhhuh.
And I would hear her say that.
And I was thinking, why would she wanna
wish that on somebody?
Right. Doesn't just doesn't sound right.
You should grow like an onionwith your head in the ground.
Then I realized it's acurse. Yeah. Oh yeah.
It's an old Yiddish curse. Okay. Yeah.
Which means like, you know, youshould be stuck in one place
and you should never know anything. Oh,

(13:12):
- Okay.
You should stay, um, kind of ignorant
to what's going on, or naive
- Yeah.
As ignorant as you are right now.
- Right, right.- I gotcha. Okay.
- Sure. So I think the lots of idioms
around cursing everywherein every culture.
- Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
My wife talks about a Yiddishphrase that her mother used
to use, which was, go knockyour head against the wall, is

(13:33):
how it is interpreted.
Right. And, and you're saying, well, maybe
that's not interpretedfrom the Yiddish correctly.
And No, it is It is.
Um, basically that's what it was saying.
Right. Interesting. And so
- Don't, don't waste my time either. So
- Those of you who understandYiddish, you might know
what the phrase is out there.
- Right. So Torin, you have,you have an idiom, right? That
- Yeah, I do.
Because there was an article that I, um,

(13:54):
I knew we were thinking about,
talking about idiomsidiots talking idioms.
So I pulled up this article from, from i,
- I, that's, that's, that'sthe name of the episode,
- I think Definitely is.
- I think it has to be. And,and that's what's happening.
, um, pull up thisarticle from Education First
or ef, um, that has these 10kind of entertaining idioms.
Um, one was from,
I'm just pulling it up,one was from Sweden.

(14:16):
Um, I won't try to read it in the Swedish,
but it translates to, toslide in on a shrimp sandwich
- To slide in. Mm-Hmm.
- on a shrimp.On a shrimp sandwich. Sandwich.
It explains, in Sweden, um,when this phrase was created,
shrimp was considered a fancy food.
Ah. So it's sort of like,you know, in, in us,
we would say someone born
with a silver spoon intheir mouth. Ah, right.

(14:37):
- And yeah.- Okay. Right. Okay.
- She got this privilegeand everything just kind
of works out for you, and youdon't even have to work at it.
- Right. And I'm, and I'm hearing this
through the cultural filter.
Right. And I'm saying, whatmakes this uniquely Swedish?
Yeah. Yeah. Like, why would Swedes have
an expression like this?
And now maybe lots
of cultures have asimilar type expression.
Yeah. But why is it, why,why is it this way in Sweden?

(15:01):
Why shrimp sandwich? Yeah.For the same reason that
to be born with a silverspoon in your mouth has a
slightly negative connotation.
Definitely. Right? Yeah.
It's used to describe people who basically
were not admiring
because their achievementshave not been done
through their efforts.
Right. But rather throughtheir privilege. Right?
- Yes,- Exactly. Right.
- Yep. Maybe through their birth. Right.

(15:22):
- And so in any culture that's egalitarian
Mm-Hmm. , that's gonna be
- Sure.
Mm-Hmm. .Yeah. Mm-Hmm. .
- So in the US that makes sense.
We pride ourselves onhaving egalitarian values.
We don't always live upto them. Right. Right.
And we struggle to. Right.
But they are thefoundational, I mean, they're,
they're built into the laws of the land.
Mm-Hmm. . And, and,

(15:43):
and in Sweden in a far
more accomplished egalitarianculture than the us
I can see why we wouldhave this kind of video.
Mm-Hmm. . Right.
Because privilege shouldnot be, we all know
that it does give advantages,
but it's not necessarilysomething that we're gonna admire.
Right. Right. You slidin on a shrimp sandwich.

(16:04):
I could be so happy aboutthat. Don't be, don't be so,
don't be so fully yourself.
- Right. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. That makes sense.
That's interesting, huh? Okay. Huh. Okay.
Um, but it's still interesting.
And I'm also justfinding an inter, I mean,
certainly Sweden is going tobe a water-based, um, uh, uh,
place, you know, uhhuh, uh,seafood type of place to use.
That's true. Right? Sure. To use a shrimp,

(16:25):
there's shrimp sandwich besides the fact
that it might have been,but it was also special.
So I'm, and I wanna, I don'twanna go on the road of
how special are shrimpsin Sweden, but, um,
but it, well, it wasconsidered fancy at the time.
That's it. Yeah. It maybe have been not a common
type of thing to eat. Right.
- It may have been anIndian that developed at a
particularly economicallydifficult moment in time.
Be could, could be. Sure.I don't dunno. Could

(16:46):
- Be.
I dunno. Right. Um, Dean,were there other, I know you,
you pulled up this article now.
Were there other idioms on here
that kind of stood out to you
- As, as uniquely representativeof, of the culture? Yeah.
- Or just fun? Or just funor both? . Yeah.
Hopefully both. Right.
- Well,- We are doing a podcast
- , well, there was this
- Oh, we're, yeah. Oh, I thought
- We were static.
You might as well say in the neighborhood,

(17:07):
there was this Norwegian inSweden. Oh yeah. I saw this
- One- Go across the border.
There was this Norwegianone, which translated, again,
the literal translation isthere is an owl in the bog.
Mm. An owl in the bog
- Who doesn't use that one. Yeah.
- Or, or .- We,
we don't is basically itin the, in the us Yeah. But
- What does that, what does that mean?

(17:27):
- Right. I don't, I don't know. Yeah.
I wouldn't be able totell you. Can I guess.
- Please.- Okay.
Well, uh, I, at leasthere in the United States,
there is a feeling thatowls are very smart.
Right. That's what I wasgonna say. They're very
wise, so Yeah.
And now whether they are ornot, I have no idea, but,
but they, they appear to be,
so I guess we give them that credit.
Right. And so do we stick 'emin the bog? Um, I don't know.

(17:51):
But it's, we, we do talk aboutthings being bogged down.
So meaning that theyget kind of stuck. Yeah.
So I'm gonna go with, um, uh,
the owl's not so bright. Okay. How's
- That?
I was thinking like the bothe bog is kind of like murky,
and so they're trying tomaybe figure something out. I
- Don't dunno.
I dunno. Either. It's, Ithink the interpretation,

(18:11):
- I, I haven't looked to see what it was.
I just noticed the idiom.
- So what do you got over- There? Yeah.
So owls are, what doesit, owls are fairly,
they're looked upon asintelligent animals.
Right. Right. And if they're in the bog,
that's the reason why they're there.
Something's, something's not right.
So they're suspicious
of something and they're trying to figure
- Out.
Oh. Oh, okay. Okay.
So we were kind of in theright direction. Yeah, I think
- So. We're in the
- Ballpark.

(18:32):
We didn't interpret You're in the
- Ballpark,- Right?
Oh, look at you over there. Yeah.
- Call back- .
No, half our audience
doesn't know what you'retalking about.
- Half.
- Yeah. We're gonna go with half. Okay.
- Yeah. . Okay. That makes sense.
So something's, uh, su
- That guy, that guy over there who's
- Listening, right? .
- Yeah. You I'm talkingto you there, Jerry. Yeah.

(18:53):
- But, but in Italian, I'mgonna say to you, um, you're,
you're, you're, uh,you're, you're a pizza,
you're a piece of bread.
You're not a pizza, you're apiece, you're a piece of sort
of kind bread.
- Yeah. That's kind of Right. That's
- True. Pizza.
- I'd be like, Ooh,you're a piece of bread. A
- Piece of- Bread.
You're a piece of bread. Yeah.
- Or he's a piece of bread That
- Could go, a piece.

(19:13):
Go many ways. I feel like. Yeah.
- Yeah. I, I'm, this is, I don'tknow if that's good or bad.
- This is Italian.- I'm, I'm not sure.
I mean, 'cause the Italians are, are, are,
have wonderful food.
Yeah. And, and eat. So
- That's the reason whyit's uniquely Italian right
there. So
- Maybe it's- Good we're using food as part
as the basis of the idiom.
- Right. Right.- So maybe it's good 'cause Yeah.

(19:35):
It's delicious. Italian bread.
- I'm gonna go kind of goodat least. Yeah. Sounds good.
Good. So, bread, however,see, I, I don't think of them,
although I know they have,you know, their bakeries
and stuff probably are wonderful.
But, um, I'm not thinkingthem in that, that mode.
So I'm thinking it's kind of your base
or basic as opposed tobeing Oh, really special.

(19:55):
Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't,I'm making stuff up here.
- Okay. Yeah. No, I would, yeah,
because I would think it'sa, it's a lot of bread,
delicious bread related things.
So, yeah. I don't know.I'm gonna say it's,
- Well, it is a good thing.
Okay. And I think theEnglish equivalent, um, the,
the non Italian equivalentwould be, uh, to, to refer
to someone as salt of the earth.
- Oh, okay.- Okay. Yeah.

(20:15):
- Okay.- Yeah. You know,
- That's one too, whereif I heard that I didn't,
you know, I didn't know that as a, I'm not
- Quite sure what that means in, in,
in American English, but I mean,
- Especially because isn't salt of the,
like, salt in the earth bad?
- No. But salt of the earth is,when you say someone is salt
of the earth, I think that means they're,
they're trustworthy there.
- Yes. But Right. But I mean, literally
- Basic, they're, well
- Salt in your, in your earth,
it's probably not gonna be a good

(20:36):
thing's I if you'retrying to grow stuff. So
- If I'm just taking itliterally, I'd go, oh, no.
Right. Why are you callingme? He said, salted
- Beer.
But salt I think was suchan important thing. Yeah.
In, in throughout history,
salt has been meant to be a commodity.
- There's an interestingtwist to this a little bit.
- That is, it'll we'll be the judge
of whether it'sinteresting or not.
- As well, our listeners.Tell us, listeners,
- We're talking to youagain, Jerry in, in T

(20:57):
or Jerry, whoever you want, wake up in
- Tuscany.
Yes. Okay. And we're in Italy,
but in the Tuscan region,particularly bread, usually, um,
people complain that Tuscanbread, when they eat it
with a meal, is kind of flavorless.
Ah. And that's because it's intentionally
made without any salt.
Okay. Sure. Um,
now this is not the casein bread in other parts
of Italy necessarily.

(21:17):
Mm-Hmm. But in Tuscany, you don't add salt
to the mixture when you're making bread.
Mm. And the reason, as it wasexplained to me once was that
because salt was very expensiveat one time, historically.
Ah, I, I believe
- That's the case. I believe that.
- Sure. So, um, so theyleft it out there and,
and the cuisine developed over time
where it developed the flavors

(21:37):
elsewhere, but not in the bread. Uhhuh.
- . Okay.- And
but the idea, anyway, thatsalt of the earth Yeah.
And referring to someone as bread is,
they're both compliments.
Yeah. Right. Okay.Basic fundamental. Yeah.
Trustworthy, dependable.
- Right. Okay. So I seeI was interpreting there,
see there's an interesting, uh, dichotomy

(21:58):
because I'm interpretingthat almost the same thing,
but not as a good thingsaying you were just too
base. You were Yeah.
- You were so fundamentalthat it's weren't,
- You weren't, you're notspecial. Yeah, exactly.
- I could see that. I don'tthink that's what it means.
Right's that we No, no. I,I when is not that? It's not
- That. No. Right, right.
- Now, this is a good thing.- Okay, cool.

(22:18):
What else? You guys,you got another one to,
- To be referred to as tasteless bread.
Right. . It's a good thing.
- . It is a goodthing. Reliable. Yes. Yes.
Well, it's not tasty.
- Torin.
You f you found another one.
- Well, I can tell you about one. Okay.

(22:40):
Um, that I, I think isrepresentative of Yeah.
Would definitely be representativeof, uh, again, going back
to Jordan of Jordanian
or Mediterranean culture,which is, um, one
that I learned in a class.
I didn't hear it ever said,but I learned in a class, um,
the Arabic is book rfi, mish, mish, mish.
Which literally means tomorrow if
apricots. And so the idea of being
- Tomorrow, if apricots- Tomorrow, if apricots.

(23:02):
Okay. So literally meaninglike tomorrow if apricots bloom
or if the apricots are available.
Uhhuh. Um, the problem beingthat there's only a very,
very short season whenapricots are actually blooming.
- Ah. And- Even when they do,
they don't last very longand you can't store them.
Yes. So it basically, it sortof gets back to when pigs fly.
It's sort of like Yeah.
Tomorrow with apricots,but there aren't gonna be

(23:22):
- Apricots.
Yeah. That's a pigs fly uhhuh.That's the Jordanian version.
Exactly. When pigs fly. Yeah. When
- Pigs fly, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
'cause it's not, this ain't gonna happen.
- But that's be one again,if I had heard it in
conversation, didn't know that. Yeah.
- Like, what the heck areyou talking about? Why
- Are we talking about apricots?
Yeah. Are you growing apricots?
Right. I could see myself asking that.
- Oh, oh, okay. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, there's aninteresting thing happening in,

(23:44):
in, in, in American English, and I'm,
and this is just in theUnited States that it is,
that this is happening with,
but I know we've talked aboutthis a little bit in the past,
but still in the, in themidst of all of this.
And that is what we referto here as ASAP or Mm-Hmm.
as soon aspossible. Mm-Hmm. .
- Well, acronyms are very confusing.

(24:05):
- Very confusing. And to some degree
it has crossed over from beingnot only an acronym though,
but the, the actual phraseas soon as possible.
Right, right. Right. Is becomes an idiom
because according to who is
- Possible, what does that mean? And
- If you're dealingwith culture that have a
different concept of time,
- Ah, ah,- Yeah.
- So that gets brokenup. Then what becomes

(24:25):
- Possible if you'redealing with individuals
who have a different concept of time,
- Well, individuals, concepts of time,
they're often culturally determined
- And will to, to some degree.
Yes. I think you're right. Yep.
But I'm saying in the UnitedStates, you send me something
that says as soon as possible,my first reaction to that
has been for a long timeis get this done when you
- Can.

(24:45):
Right. As opposed to right now.
- Now if you look out andthrow all the things out there,
and of course online whereeverything is true, ,
if you look as soon aspossible, is interpreted as now.
Sure. Right now. No, it totally.
- So- You gotta get it done now.
- Stop everything, dothis and do this now.
- Yes. And that is not reallywhat it's saying. Right.
Because if you literally interpret it,
it means when you have the opportunity,

(25:08):
- That's possible.
- Right. I was workingwith a customer in Taiwan
who was completely befuddledat the American reaction when
the American asked themto send this package ASAP
to them from, from Taiwan,and he didn't do anything.
Yeah. And the Americaniststarts to push on this, like,
I'm waiting for the package,I need this package now.

(25:30):
And he pushed back and he said,
but you said send it as soon as possible.
Yeah. It's not possiblefor me to send it now, now,
and maybe I'll be ableto send it next week.
I can't really tell you when. Yeah.
But you're not asking me
to tell you when you're just telling
me, send it when you can.
- And if you annoy me, maybewhen the apricots bloom,
- And if you annoy me,you're never gonna get it.
- Tomorrow of apricots is not gonna be,

(25:52):
but you know, apricots grow better
in a Mediterranean climate. Right. So,
- So it's reference point for them.
That makes sense. Yeah,exactly. Exactly. Absolutely.
- Um, I just wanna share, II, I think it's interesting
to think about the origin of idioms
and how oftentimes, you know,
we don't really know what the origins are.
It's, or it's unclear andthere's different theories
because I looked upwhat the origin might be
to win pig's flag, becauseI was just curious,

(26:14):
and apparently it's unknown,
but there was a 16th centurywriting that references.
Um, the author was saying,basically you, like, you know,
when pigs fly, but it was when pigs fly
with their tails forward.
So it wasn't just, when pigs fly
- , now we gottaget 'em going backwards.
- , if you gotany more specific. Okay.
- Well, because in medieval times they
were pigs that were flying.
That's true. Exactly. Butthey never flew backwards.

(26:34):
- Right. Never saw that.That's not gonna happen.
Never. Of course they're gonna fly.
- Yeah. Yeah. And it'sonly pigs with tails, so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because theyhave to point backwards, not
- The tailless pigs,- You, your,
your grounded tailless pigshave nothing to do with this
- .
That's right. So you gotta specify here
- It's a, or if theyhave a tail in the front
Uhhuh too. Yeah. So,
- Well, we've seen theunicorn tapestries, so we know

(26:54):
that unicorns existed in the middle age.
Of course. Absolutely.So we also seen, wait
- A minute, what, what are you saying?
We've also seen, we don't exist now,
- We've also seen the piggytapestries, haven't we? The
- The piggy Yes. The piggies, the
- Pigs, the flying pigs, the ones
that were flying. Absolutely.They're also from the,
- With the little wings.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,
- Nice.
But then interestingly, to your point,
they're not flying backwards.

(27:15):
- They're not, see you getthose tapestries out there,
you might think, youknow, those pigs can fly.
Yeah. But I don't see'em flying backwards, so.
Sure. Makes perfect
- Sense.
That really, that really tickled me.
- And we think we aremessed up as,
as a humans at this point.
And by the way, certainlyfootnote here, we are messed up.
Oh, okay. Just moving on. Um,

(27:36):
- So, so t just, I, I
'cause in, in telling about, um,
in telling you about when Iheard that idiom with chickens,
again, I wish I rememberwhat it actually was,
but when I heard that
and just sort of my internalprocess there of going,
you know, I should have knownwhat that that idiom by now.
And what are your, whatare your thoughts on your,
somewhere international
and a culture you're not familiar with

(27:57):
and you hear an idiom like that?
Maybe it's a business meeting
or a social event or whatever it might be.
What, what are your thoughtson what you do? Ah, how do
- You handle that?
You know, whenever you'reen encountering something
that you don't understandculturally, you're in a culture
and you go, wait a minute,
there's something I'm not getting here.
Right. You really should beable to control the situation so
that you can ask the question.

(28:18):
Hmm. I mean, there's nothingreally wrong in being able
to say, ideally this is your strategy.
Um, hold on for a second.
Um, I don't understand what you just said.
I think we don't, we don't havea similar phrase in English.
Mm-Hmm. Um, could youexplain that? Mm-Hmm.
I've never heard that before. Yeah.

(28:39):
Now I know that sometimesyou can't do that.
You can't stop the businessnegotiation necessarily.
Or, or maybe there's a tense moment
and your relationship isnot as good as it should.
So that you asking them
to explain themselves mightbe interpreted as, uh, sure.
As, as a problem.
But ideally you should be able to, and,

(29:01):
and I, I think for mostpeople, in most circumstances,
they can much more than theythink they can stop the show
and say, whoa, you know, I've never heard
that phrase before.
We don't use that in English.What does that mean? Yeah.
And because everybody knows
that there are thingsyou are gonna say and,

(29:21):
and, and you can add.
And by the way, if I ever say anything
that you don't understand, please,
please ask me. That's what I
- Was gonna say. I imagine
- It must, must be make it reciprocal
- Must be flow. Yeah.
- Appreciation of,
we wanna make sure there'sno gaps in communication.
- Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
- Okay. And I think too,you mentioned in, in, in,
in your explanation there inlike negotiations and stuff
and whether you couldstop it at that moment.

(29:42):
And I think when you reallythink about that in a business
or a personal negotiationfor that matter, um, if,
if you didn't understandsomething like that as opposed
to thinking you can figure it out.
Mm-Hmm. youprobably should make sure you know
what the heck they were saying.
- Absolutely. - 'cause otherwiseyou could really end up in
a, in a bad spa, in a bad place. Yeah.

(30:03):
- And it sounds like, you know,
'cause again, I, I maybewasn't giving myself,
and by the example, I gave aton of grace in that moment.
I was sort of saying, I, I should have
known more, but maybe Yeah.
Giving some, some grace toyourself and the other, and Yeah.
The other party there saying, yeah, gaps
of communication gonna happen,let's try to bridge that.
- Right. I mean, they know thatyou're not of their culture.
Right. Right. So assoon as you admit that,

(30:23):
and by the way, if I ever say anything
that you don't understand, please ask me.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah. I'll do my best to explain.
- Yeah. I'm sure I used many, uh,
baseball related idiom idioms
- Probably without even thinking about.
I'm sure I did. Yeah.
And I think in another thingthat goes with it, I mean,
I took a lot of years of Spanish
and, um, rememberedunfortunately not anywhere near

(30:44):
as as much as I should have. Same
- With my French.
- Yeah. And, you know, kickedback in when I went to places
that were Spanish speaking countries.
But, but it, to a degree at least,
but it, it's, it's a how muchdo you get taught idioms,
you know, I guess itdepends on the language
instruction you're getting.
- And most of the time you're getting it.
It's subliminally yougrow up with it. Mm-Hmm.

(31:06):
- .- Well, that's it. It's so conversational.
- I mean Yeah. So it is, Idon't know that it's built in
'cause you're getting vocabulary,
vocabulary doesn't helpyou with idioms that's
- Not gonna go- There.
Right. Because that's a literaltranslation of the word.
Yeah. So it's what areyou doing with that?
You now, you're trying to put it together
and pull it apart in a, in a manner
that is gonna be confusing
- In, in my experience,working with people
who are working in other countries
and my own personal experience,not only with the people,

(31:28):
but myself as well.
Time and time again, wehave this inclination,
I've seen this and, and, and,
and I think we need to beconscious of it, uh, um, to,
if we ask a questionwhere I'm afraid I'm going
to be seen as foolish Mm.
Or I'm afraid I'm gonnabe seen as ignorant.
And the truth is, you areignorant. Right. That's okay.

(31:51):
Because you don't know theculture. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah.
Right. It's okay. Right. Imean, you get a pass on this.
Yeah. Especially when youremind the other person that,
by the way, I'll give youa pass when you do it too.
Right? Sure. Two way street.
So we tend to avoid askingthese kinds of questions at,
or making statements that imply some way
that you don't know something about them.

(32:12):
Right, right. Truth is they know you
don't know anything about them.
Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. Or, or
that you're missing thisinformation. Mm-Hmm.
- And also I think you're a,if you ask for their help Yeah.
It's like, uh, I thinkit's a fairly, you open
- Universal.
- You sure. Do you really open the door?
I think that's a universal reaction.
I think you can say if I'm wrong,
but I think acrosscultures you're gonna find
people respond to that.

(32:32):
Yeah. As opposed to the kind of the,
the whole mess you canget into when you're,
- And one, and one ofthe nice things that is
that people really love totalk about their culture.
Hmm. Yeah. So if youdon't understand an idiom
or any aspect of their culture,
- Ask Yeah.
- Most of the time it'sopening a door that allows
for the building of a relationship.
Mm-Hmm. that is important.

(32:53):
- I think it's also very possible,
as we've already said a couple of times,
but I think it's verypossible that the person
or the people who are usingthe idiom are not seeing it
as something, um, yeah.
Extraordinary at all. Yeah.
So they're seeing it as, as very,
very common and Right. Very,
- Very happy to Yeah.
Say, oh, oh, you know, I didn'trealize that, that that was,
you know, again, a gapof communication here,

(33:14):
so I'm happy to explain it.
Yeah. Yeah. Didn't, didn't even
think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Nice.
- Yeah. Absolutely. Nice.Well, that's helpful. Yeah.
To me, Well, you know, I,
- Well, I, I feel less of an idiot at
- Yeah. I don't feel
- Anymore.
- I idiot. Yeah, exactly.
- I'm, I'm not the idiot idiot
that I was when we started. Yeah.
- . Yeah. Okay, we'll go with that.

(33:35):
I'm a different shade of I . Yeah.
I think I, I I like that. Yes.
We pulled a differentcrayon out of the Cray box.
- It's a song from the seventies
- Level of .
- Shade- Of Idiot. Shady of Idiot.
It may very well have been. Yes.
It, um, Well, I, I, I think we've,
we've covered ground very nicely in this
subject and I think so too.
And I think there's, honestly,I'm gonna say there's

(33:57):
so many idioms to Covered,grounded sort of an idiom.
We might, we mightrevisit this. Yes. Mm-Hmm.
, yeah. Maybe. Yeah.
Covered ground, I guessit would be. Yeah. Yeah.
There we go. I'm not sure at all where
that would come from .
I would imagine. I can imagine.
But we don't have time to. Yeah.
- I don't know. And nowI feel like an idiot
- Again because I don't know.
Oh, well, well, as the old phrase goes,

(34:18):
you don't know what you don't know.
- Again, deep.- Well, that's why we are.
And, and that's why we are here.
- Yes. And also, butthe reason we're here is
because, oops, your
- Culture showing, your showing
- Smell you

(34:45):
before you run off
and disappear back into your own cultures.
Let me give you some informationabout something we really
want you to know, and that'show to get hold of us.
Give us your questions, your comments,
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(35:08):
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