Must Love Dogs (And Pets)! Special Reissue

If you’ve paid attention to U.S. national news recently *ahem Kristi Noem ahem*, you’ve surely been reminded that many U.S. Americans love love love dogs and have them as pets. Therefore, we thought it would be the perfect time for a special reissue of our May 2021 episode, “Pets Around The World! Meow.” Enjoy! While remembering pets both old and new, Dean and Tom take the op-purr-tunity to discuss which animals do and don’t constitute pets across dif-fur-rent cultures. (Without any pet puns in the actual episode, we just had to include some here; thank you for understanding.) Plus: Wondering how long pet parrots can live, or where you can safely cross a piranha-infested river in the Amazonas? Well then, you’ve certainly come to the right pawed-cast (that’s the last one, really)! Have a cultural question or episode idea for Dean and Tom? Reach out on X/Twitter & Facebook (@OopsCultureShow) or by email at [e-mail]. Music: “Little Idea” – Bensound.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- Tom, we're back. It's shining.
- We're in - Studio. The sun,the shining the sun is back.
The spring is, is hereit is. We're in studio.
And we're talking about culture.
- And we are talking about culture.
And, and I, yeah, go ahead. And
- I, I just heard that, um,
your daughter got a pet, didn't she?
She got a, a cat.
- Wow. Really getsaround. You know, .

(00:20):
I didn't, I didn't. It'sin the New York Times.
I believe that .Uh, yes she did. She, uh,
- A new member of the- Family.
It's a new member of the family.
They have, uh, two children,uh, a a, a young, a lady who's,
uh, about to turn 10 and,
and a young man who's goingto turn five this summer.
And now they have a 1-year-old, um, kitten

(00:42):
or a cat, I guess, at one.
And, um, and just joined the family. Yeah.
- Terrific.- And they, and they're very happy.
And the cat can go anywhereit wants pretty much.
And do anything it wantsas cats will. They, they,
- That's not gonna change. No.
- Whether you want 'emto or not, actually,
the cat has gone many areasThey do not want it to cats
and did that almost like
day one, because that's what a, that

(01:02):
- Immediately Yeah.
That's, that's how they knowthey have a cat and not a dog.
- Absolutely. It Oh, absolutely.
It actually figured out howto climb into the bottom
of the oven and up behind it.
Uh, now there's noadvantage to doing that,
but it's a cat and it just went
'cause I can And then got stuck.
And got stuck. Yeah. , of course.
- It was like a paw flailing.

(01:23):
And what's the, what'sthe name of the cat?
- The name? Well, it's called Gigi,
but the name is actuallyg Gordon Kitty .
Which, which for those of youwho are not familiar with the,
um, the history of,
of the Watergate era in the United States
around Richard Nixon's presidency.
Um, one of the infamous, uh,contributor to that, all of

(01:46):
that, that ended up with apresident having to resign
for the only time in the historyof the United States, um,
was a gentleman by thename of g Gordon Liddy.
And as we do this podcast, um, Mr.
Liddy has just passed away with a, oh,
I don't know, within the last two weeks.
Yeah. Just in this last week. Yeah. Yeah.
- And then they got a cat.
- And then they got a cat. But they
already gotten the catbefore, before that.

(02:06):
Yeah. He, it was, the catwas named prior to Mr.
Liddy actually, um, sheddingthe, the, uh, the human coil.
- But there are reasons for these
- Things.
Well, yes. 'cause nowhe no longer was needed.
So they had another thingthat was a pain in the neck.
- So now he, he's now, he'snow he's taken over the,

(02:27):
the body of this incarnate. Well,
- Let's hope not, but it'spossible. Yeah, it's possible.
- And and - They have, especiallywith cats. It's possible.
- It's possible, of course. Yes.
- Right now. And the, and theinteresting thing with Mr.
Liddy also is that he, notthe cat, but Liddy, not kitty.
The, that he went on to have
- The human, the human Liddy,not the kitty kitty Liddy.

(02:47):
- Sure. Right. Yes. Idon't, well, I don't know
- What he said. And
- No one does.
No. Okay. Um, anyway, was that he,
he ended up having like multiple careers
and doing quite well forhimself, which is really kind
of amazing since, and,
and never, never spoke a wordof regret of the things he did

(03:09):
during the time of, ofthe Watergate era. He
- Didn't have any,- He didn't have any, Nope.
And, um, which makes him avery dangerous human being.
. Yeah. 'cause you just don't care.
Then what do you do? You
- Know?
But Tom don't speak ill of the dead.
- No, I will, I certainlywill. And he deserves it.
And he probably would
agree if he was sitting here
right now. He had his own podcast.
- Podcast. Exactly.

(03:30):
But, but the whole ideathat your daughter as now,
uh, a new member of thefamily. That's right. A
- Feline, a feline fe brought,
bought an animal into the house,
- Made me think of awonderful conversation.
I think we, we, we might haveUhhuh , the,
the what's the cultural piece to
- This?
Because, well, you know,we've spoken just a little bit
about, about certainanimals around the world,

(03:52):
but I don't think we've really
discussed pets around the world.
- Pets around the world. Isthere a cultural issue to
- That?
The world ?
Are there, is there, is thereever not a cultural aspect
- To it?
Because I am Dean Foster,
- And I'm Tom Peterson, and- This is Oops,
- Your culture showing,- Showing.

(04:18):
And we also have Torin with us
- Too.
Oh yeah. He's our pet.
- .
- What, what? , sorry. Torin. I,
- I, it's, - He's, um, yes,he's with us in studio again.
This is, this is crazy stuff.
- And, and to you grew up withpets, didn't you? I did, yes.
- You had- Numerous. Yeah, we had a, we had a few,

(04:39):
or I had a couple when Iwas Well, that's not true.
I think Bananas and Tuesday,which are cats. Yes.
Were still around. When I was very, when
- Young.
You were very, very young. Okay. So
- I don't remember them.
- No,- But I remember our cat chicken. Yeah.
- Or your chicken named cat.
- And the chicken named Cat. Yeah. Game
- Game later, of course, as you do
- Uhhuh and our dognamed Bailey. Yeah. Who

(04:59):
- Was very cute.
Well, there was also the cat named Lester,
- Right? That's right. Lester. Yep.
- Yep. And there was Fox as well.
Although Fox was an outdoor cat.
- Okay. Again, when I was young.
- Yeah. Yeah.- And,
and then there was also the fox named Cat
- .
There was, we had, we hadchicken in the fox did,
- This is an interesting pattern.
You constantly named ananimal after another animal.
- Yes. Well, that's right. Uhhuh.
- , because they name

(05:20):
- Resemble, there'sactually a reason for that.
But it would just bore you to tears.
So, um, well, let's move
- On then. ,
- Let's move on.
- And I'm thinking, okay,it's always cats or dogs, cats
or dogs, cats or dogs herepretty much in the us Right?
These seem to be thepredominant, you know? Yeah.
And there are certaincultural, um, patterns to this,
because I remember reading that, um,

(05:41):
as the country became more
and more urbanized, um, catsbecome the preferred animal
because they don't take as much attention.
Hmm. You can leave them in the apartment.
- I think there may havebeen another reason too.
And, and then, because you're talking
the industrial revolution. No,
- I'm talking about muchmore recently than that.
- Ah, okay. Yeah. Well,
- Absolutely recent, recent urbanization.
- I see. Okay. Yeah. Right.- Okay.

(06:03):
But the cat was always in the house
because they kept the rats away.
- That's, that's- The other
- History.
Throughout history. And,and I think in the, in the,
in the beginning ofthe Augusto revolution,
when the urban areasreally started to grow, uh,
that became a huge factor.
But it also had been ahuge factor on the farms.
- Yes. The barn cat. Yeah.
Was in the barn because themousers, the mousers. Yeah.
And you didn't feed these animals. No.

(06:24):
'cause you wanted them to liveoff the mice. That's right.
- Yeah. But, but alsothat's a working animal.
It's, it's almost likethe cats on the farms
for the most part.
Were, were like the horses, you know?
It's, it's, they were, theywere to do work of some kind,
whether it was carrying humans around
or it was pulling a plow,

(06:44):
or it was something like that. Turning
- A wheel.
- Yeah. And Yeah, exactly. Or
- Inventing the computer.
There was this horse, the horse, yeah.
Love that horse in, in the stable.
He was sitting, burning the midnight oil,
just working on those.
- He was amazing. Working- On those.
- What was his name? Ed- Zeroes and ones, something
- Like that.
Something, yeah. Anyway,
you couldn't shut 'emup, that's all I know.

(07:06):
. But, but, so they would, it
- Was a lot of horse feathers.
- , we moving quickly. . But
- To your point, Tom.
Oh, can a working animal?I had a point. Hold on.
- Yeah. Oh, okay. Go- Ahead. Yes.
Well, I, I'm taking a pointfrom what you're saying.
Thank you. Bet. Yeah.Can a working animal be
defined as a pet?
- Yeah. See, I don't think so. So,

(07:28):
- No.
- Is your cow your pet?Probably not. Could it be it?
I guess it could be, but then you have
to treat it significantly different
than most cows get treated. Right.
- So I think the definition of a pet is
where you simply havean animal for affection.
Yep. Uh, to, to take this place of, um,

(07:49):
an object of affection,
- Basically.
Yes. I think a company,uh, for especially people
who might live alone, might need it
to just give them someonesomething else around.
- And then you have thatstrange category of animals
that provide emotional support,
where one could make the casethat they are working animals,
not necessarily pets.

(08:09):
- You could,- But they're somewhere in between.
- Right. Yeah. Because that's,that's almost like getting a,
- You still love them like a pet.
- Well, yeah. I think, youknow, there's a lot of talk now.
People growing older and living longer,
and in some cases needing can't,
they can't really live by themselves.
So there's a whole industrythat is built around that,

(08:29):
where people come in and,and, and spend a lot of time,
or in fact, live with olderpeople in order to, um,
give them support and takehelp, take care of them,
but also emotional support.
And in doing so, they, I'm surethere's an attachment there,
at least from the personwho is being taken care of.

(08:52):
And I'm thinking that thoseanimals offer that as well.
Now, is there going to bea give and take on that?
I think so. I think those emotional, um,
support animals are going to both.
I mean, aren't they goingto get some sort of,
whatever animals get out of that,
they're still gonna get out of it?
- Well, they get food andcare and, and attention.
And attention, yeah. And they
- Give back attention.

(09:13):
- Right, right.- And what we perceive to be, um, love
and understanding and appreciation.
- But here's a cultural thing.
It, in the US it's mainly been,
therefore by the definition
of a pet not being a working animal.
Right. With the exceptionof cats on the farm and,
and the mousers and such.
Right. Um, it's basicallybeen dogs and, and cats.

(09:35):
- Yeah. I would say in the
United States, it's primarily dogs. And,
- And that's, and the cultural thing is
that different cultures havedifferent animals as pets
using the pet as a definition. Sure. First
- Of all, do they even have pets too?
- Places don't. Well,that's, yeah. Don't, yeah.
It, it, it, it, there's the presumption
that you are economicallyas a society, uh, capable

(09:58):
of enabling a critical numberof people, the economic,
uh, privilege of being ableto keep animals strictly for,
strictly for em, emotionaland, and affectionate reasons.
And for nothing else. Sure.Not for food, not for working.
So that already eliminatesa lot of cultures,

(10:20):
because in many cultures, I have an animal
because I'm gonna ultimately eat them, or
because they're doproviding some sort of work,
or they're providing somesort of food, you know?
So I don't eat the cow untilit's given me all the milk,
and then we'll slaughter the cow and, and,
and throughout human history Wow.
I think human history,

(10:40):
this has been the world of animals. You're
- Correct. Yes.
- But now it's, so the wholeidea of a pet is kind of a, a,
a a on, on a mass scale,kind of a recent development.
I think all throughout humanhistory, elites did have pets.
- Well, we know the Egyptiansrevered cats. Right.
And, and it, but, but, butprobably from what you're saying,

(11:02):
and I think this iswhat has been found, is
that they can trace back that,that, that the pharaohs and,
and might have have a cat or,
or the family of the pharaohsmight have some sort of cat.
And it was, and was it,did it represent a God?
I'm not sure in. Yes.
- Yes. I thought it did. Itdid. I don't remember the name
of the Egyptian God.

(11:23):
But it did represent a GodYes. A very powerful God.
- Right. And, and so in somecases, they've been mummified
and buried, uh, in someof the pyramids and,
and other tombs thatthey've found, I believe.
And, um, and so, and,
and in that case, I don'tknow, is that, again,
are we crossing a line of,of pet to actually something

(11:43):
that's doing something for them?
It's, it's offering themsome sort of eternity
that they are, um, getting from the pet.
- Well, I remember in, in China,I was walking through, um,
a kind of a flea market,um, in, in Shanghai.
And there were lots ofinteresting things there
that were catching my eye.

(12:04):
I love these outdoor flea markets.
And there was a little box,
and it had what looked to melike a screen on the cover,
and the cover wouldslide forward and back.
So I'm looking at it, and
because it had a screenon it, I'm thinking they,
if you flip the cover back,
you must have keptsomething alive inside it.

(12:26):
Hmm. And then you would close it up,
and the thing inside it could live
through the air, with the air Sure.
From Peter screen. And I found out
that this was a cricket box.
Ah. And the cricket inChinese culture was always a,
um, a bringer of good luck.
So, but it was a live cricket.

(12:46):
And you would keep a livecricket in Ms. Little cricket box
and keep the cricket box with you
as you walked, spent your day.
I mean, you walked around,you know, and, and,
but this brought luck.
So, I mean, was it a pet? Huh?
Did you keep the cricketbecause you were affectionate
with it, or, yeah.
Or did you keep the cricket because it was
- 'cause it brought you good luck, or

(13:07):
- You believed it brought you good luck.
Yeah. So you, yeah. So youfed it, you know? Right.
And you gave it air and water and,
- And you actually kept it and,
and took responsibilityfor it for that reason.
- By Jiminy, you did .
- Okay. Wow. Wow.
Um, that, okay. That's,that's kind of interesting.

(13:27):
'cause you know, my first reaction to it,
and this is very culturalreaction, I believe, is that, um,
no, you don't, you don'thave affection for it,
but maybe you do.
Maybe you do. Yeah.
I mean, just, and maybe thecricket does for you also,
my other reaction to that ishow long do crickets live?
- Yeah.- I, I don't, I think you got a limited

(13:47):
time span before.
- So just when you get, it's just when you
get bored with it, .
Right. You open it up one day
and it's Cricket, Jiminy Jiminy, uh,
nothing's happening. ,
- According to the internet,about eight to 10 weeks.
That's it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay.
So, um, oh my gosh.
- Just enough time to breed, I guess.

(14:09):
- Yeah.- But not if it's in a box, but
- Right.
, it's, maybe that was,
maybe that's the problem with them.
Um, but again, if you're,if you're doing that,
maybe a little bit different, only
because crickets may have things that,
that consume crickets,I'm assuming they do.
And so the, like, birds
and stuff, so that the averagelifespan is gonna be impacted

(14:32):
by a predator, as opposed toif it's living in a box with,
um, and getting whateversustenance it needs. Yeah.
- Now you mentioned birds, you know,
and I'm thinking back now,
my very first pet was not a cat or a dog.
No, it was a bird. Hmm.
And one of the reasons was
because we lived in an apartment Mm-Hmm.
in an apartment building.
And my mother just did not want

(14:53):
to have a four footed creaturewalking through cat or dog.
Right, right. And, and didn'twant the, it was too small.
Right. So, uh, uh, she alloweda bird in, in a small cage,
and it was a parakeet.
And, and we had Ricky the first,and then Ricky the second.
Wow. And I think we may havehad a Ricky the third .

(15:16):
- At some. At some. Alright.
Now, now I got asked these questions.
did, did, um, was,
- And I remember the first one, Ricky.
The first was of the blue variety,
and then Ricky, the secondwas of green variety. Mm.
- Okay. Was, was, um, where,where did Ricky come from?
- Well, who knows?- I mean, I mean, the name not, yeah.
Oh, we don't know. Okay. No,

(15:37):
- I was too young.
I didn't ask. It soundedlike a nice name. Okay.
That's the name the birdcame with. Why, uh, why
- Did I- Go? Of
- Course, it's the bird's name.
Hello . Um, right. Well,he mentioned my pets before.
I also had fish
- And tropical fish,- But not for very long.
Yes. Because I did not takecare of them very well.
- Well, they're very hard to take care of.

(15:58):
I think tropical fish is difficult.
Hey, I have a tropical fishstory, which is very true.
- Is it - Cultural? No, it'snot cultural at all. ,
- Then go for it.
That has to do, and please continue.
- I remember as a littlekid, my grandmother told me
that we were gonna havea dinner that night,
and she wanted to let me know that

(16:20):
that sky was coming to dinner.
And he was an uncle of minewho I'd never met before.
And she said, and I'm telling you now,
because you have to bevery polite with him.
He's gonna shake your hand,
and when you shake his hand,
you're gonna realizehe's missing his fingers.
- And Okay.- And so I just want,
I remember my grandmother wantedme to know this, so I would

(16:40):
- George Kaufman play and No, no,
- I just,- For the four of you out there
who know who George Kaufman
- Is .
So, so of course I'm, I'm,I'm like the 6-year-old kid,
and I'm going, whoa,
I'm gonna meet this guy with no fingers.
Cool. And my grandmothertold me to behave, you know,
so I meet him, and sure enough,he shakes my hand that night

(17:01):
and, and it's missing his fingers.
And all of them, I don'tremember that detail.
- Oh, wow. Maybe
- He had a thumb.
There was, I don't know.But , you know,
without the thumb, he couldn't grab my
- Hand.
Well, that's true. Or you would've slid
right up to his elbow, which is
- Why some people havemonkeys as pets, I guess.
- So you won't slide upto their elbow. Yeah.
- , they'll slideup to your elbow anyway.

(17:22):
Oh, okay. I see. And monkeys
- Now it's getting very, very strange.
. Go ahead.
- I asked my mother,- So you're holding this guy's elbow?
- Couldn't ask my grandmother.She wouldn't tell me.
I don't know. I had this, you know, don't,
she wasn't gonna tell me, but I asked.
- Oh, it's one of thoseunspeakable things in the family.
- Yes. Unspeakable family things.
But I felt comfortableenough to ask my mother
what ha what's with UncleGeorge? You know, like, he

(17:44):
- Has no face.
Was his real name George, theway we changed it to protect
- No, I just thought of it nowbecause I couldn't remember
what his real name was.
That's fine. Never met him before.
Never met him again. Okay.
- Yeah. - It turned out helost his fingers in the Amazon
because he went down to the Amazon looking
for gold Uhhuh at, at some point.
Huh. You know, he was one ofthese guys saw an opportunity.

(18:06):
Yeah. And, and he wasn't able to do any,
but he became the first importer
of tropical fish to the United States.
Oh. And while he was down inthe Amazons in South America,
he discovered the piranhas. Oh.
- Oh, no. Oh, wow. I My handhurts right now. Oh, yeah.
Oh, goodness.

(18:28):
So I guess you could saythere was a cultural aspect
to it in the sense thathe was going down there
and pilfering, uh,resources of that country in
- A grand colonialist tradition.
- Exactly.- Absolutely.
Exploiting whatever,whatever he could exploit.
- Well, he got his, or thepiranhas got their just
dessert. That's

(18:48):
- True.
Now fast, fast forward to my career.
- I think it was, uh, lady Fingers
or Man Fingers in this case. Yes.
- Man. Fingers- ,
- Which are very differentfrom Lady Fingers.
Yes. Fast forward to my career. Sure.
30 years later, I find myselfdown in the Amazons in Uhhuh,
the, the section of Venezuela.

(19:09):
Yes. Which is the, in, in, in,
it's the Amazon Uhhuh.
You think of Venezuelaas the coast and Caracas.
But significant part of thecountry is in the Amazons.
And I am walking throughan area where the, I'm
with a guide and he's,we have to cross a river.
And he said, now the way youcross a river safely when,

(19:32):
when there's the possibilityof piranha in the river,
is you look for a waterfall
and then cross just before the waterfall.
So before it crests over the
- Rocks. Above the waterfall.
- Above the waterfall.Just cross it there.
Because they'll never bepiranha by a waterfall. Oh.
Because they know that ifthey fall over the rocks Yeah,

(19:52):
- Yeah.
- They could die. So you cansafely cross a piha infested
river by a
- Waterfall.
Interesting. Good to know. Yeah. Okay.
- Aren't you glad you tuned inalready? Yeah. Really. Right.
- We're all learned something.
No, it's gonna save some people.
I'm sure. I, you know, I Ithink keep your fingers a lot
of , a lot of people with, uh, man
- Fingers, old lady fingers- As you like a lot of feet.

(20:15):
Were probably sacrificedto find that out, actually.
Um, well, I didn't think,no, not here. I think
- The development of humanknowledge was, you know, over,
- Over things had to be sacrificed. Yeah.
- And just like the saying, you know,
it was a brave man to eatthe first oyster. Right.
- . Right. Who thenopened up, uh, an oyster bar,
I believe in Grand CentralStation, I think it was.

(20:37):
- And why, why some people keep oysters as
- Pets.
That's right. . Well, thing thing.
And you can't beat the pearls, you know,
it's just, it's a, it's a side note. Well,
- It's a great company. Well then it's
- A working now it's a working scene.
That's true. Yeah. There you go. See? Wow.
- Yeah. But for one thing, you know,
you don't have to chaseit around the room. Well,
- No.
Or it's very slow. Chase .

(21:07):
So let me, let me back up a tad here.
Uh, we, we ended up withpiranhas in, in, in, in
- And pet- Oysters and, and then oysters and, um,
but if pet oysters,well, pet oysters, sure.
The, um, there was a pet rock too in the
United States, so I don't know if
- World- Or not for pet.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about
- That.

(21:28):
And what about the Chia Pet,
which wasn't an animal, it was a vegetable
- .
Well, or, or a person'shead. It was, uh, right.
But the Chia Pet was just, well,
- The Chia Pet, if it wasshaped like a person's head was,
then it was a vegetable thatwas being sold as an animal
that was really a human head.
- Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.That's weird. it,

(21:50):
- It, it, it needed a lot of marketing
- .
Very catchy jingle. So Yeah.
, don't just ignorethe fact it's an animal
that's not an animal, but avegetable, and a human.
It's good. They didn't gowith that one. .
No, that was not it. I was respected.
Well, I don't think we have to
worry about getting sued on that one.
Yeah, we're Okay. ,

(22:10):
- You made the first few cuts,though, but ultimately close.
- Yeah, it was close. Butstory of my career, actually,
, um, when, um,
your culture showing, um,
and so is your foot, and so is my foot.
Uh, we're that close together.How amazing is that? .
Wow. Um, and I, okay. I'moff COVID. 19. No, no.

(22:30):
- We're not doing covid.- No. Um, but
- Some people do keep bats as pets.
- They do keep, somepeople keep bat as pets.
- I had- To . Wow. .
Uh, I'm sure they do .
I'm sure they do wellin, if I'm not mistaken,
and tell me if I'm wrong, butdon't you have a bat house?

(22:53):
- I do have a bat house. Mm.
Um, hanging on the exteriorof the garage. Uhhuh
- .
- Uh, the problem with my bathouse is that I wasn't able
to hang it high enough.
Okay. I needed to getup there with a ladder,
because if you put your bat house too
low, the bats won't come.
I see. It has to be at least,I think, nine or 10 feet up.

(23:14):
- Well, I've, I've heard
that often in theconversations, I believe. Sure.
- Yes. It very, very,- The bats need to be high. Right.
- At - Very boring. I went tomany people cocktail parties.
I went to college with manypeople who were like, that
- Actually, .
And so you might ask,
why didn't I just hang thebat house high enough? Dean,
- Why didn't you hang thebat house high enough? I
- Was too lazy.

(23:34):
I don't wanna get the ladder. There
- You go.
The ladder. Fair enough. Sure. Yeah.
- , and I look atit every now and then,
and I go, you know, you should really hang
that higher. 'cause the bats will
- Come if you do do. Yeah.
- And, and why do youwant the bats to come?
They, the mosquitoes.
- Okay. They do. So it'snot to have them as pets.
Oh, no, no. They're,they're working animals
for No, they're working pets.
- They're working- Animals. Well, also, I think that, um,

(23:56):
if in, in reality, I believeif you actually look it up,
and maybe you could do this.
Okay. I believe that bats consume
for bats for, uh, for humans.
They consume an incrediblenumber of mosquitoes
of each individual bat does,
however, in the overallnumbers of mosquitoes,
they're a minor contributorto, to control of mosquitoes.

(24:17):
Yeah. I'm not looking thatup. I buy that. Okay. Yeah.
So I sounded like I knew what I was about.
- That is very authoritative.So then even if
one buys a bat house,
- It's really not gonnamake a difference. It's
- Not gonna make a difference.
You're gonna sit outside and you're gonna
- Scratching the, you'rerunning the risk anyway.
Some bite, some bat biting your neck
and sucking all your blood out.
Mm-Hmm. . Sure.
But, you know, that's howyou gotta take risks, as
- Opposed talking about,as opposed to getting a,

(24:38):
getting a mosquito bite.
Right. , which,which can give you dengue,
malaria, ua. What else
- Could you those things probably a lot.
Oh, man. Um, yeah.
So, no, I mean,
but also there are peoplewho are bat specialists
and everything and, andfind them fascinating.
And maybe they keep them as pets as well.

(24:59):
- I'm sure somebody does.- Yeah. Name three,
- .
You know, I, I don't,
but this whole idea of what kind
of animals constitute pets in different
cultures. Hey, Dean. You
- Know, what kind of animals, uh,
are considered pets indifferent cultures? .
- Well, it made me think wewere talking about cats and dogs
and, you know, many cultureshave religious prescriptions.

(25:20):
Again, prescriptions.Not prescriptions. Okay.
Prescriptions against certain animals.
- Okay. Mm-Hmm.- Like I'm thinking, um,
throughout much of the Middle East.
Mm-Hmm. Uh, which is,which is Islamic. Yes.
Um, the idea of havinga dog as a pet Mm-Hmm.
Has traditionally been profane.
You, you don't, you don't writeRight to Yeah. Thats right.

(25:42):
You spend some time in Jordan's.I did. And that's right.
Yep. Right. You, whywould you bring a dirty
or an animal that, that lives outside
a four footed animal into the house?
The house is sacred and thehouse must be clean as possible.
Which, and, and,
and the, the, the traditional role of,
of the woman in thesetraditional cultures was

(26:03):
to keep the house as clean as possible.
So the last thing you wanna do is have
a dog inside the house.
Yes. This doesn't make,
it's gonna be defeatingthe purpose. Right,
- Right.
I think when we owned a dog,my wife was on board with that,
that, uh, ,but she also got the dog.
So she couldn't really arguethat fact too much. But

(26:23):
- and, and remember,these ideas come out
of traditional societies where Right.
These animals do live outside.
And so you don't want these packs of dogs
or animals come from, from packs
of dogs suddenly coming into your house.
- Sure.- Um, they
- Weren't, they weren't coming in.
They weren't looking at itas something that was going
to sleep with your Mm-Hmm.

(26:45):
with your son or
your daughter or something like that.
And they would look at it astheir pet and take care of it.
No, it wasn't becomingthat kind of thing. It
- Wasn't a No, they weren't seen as, even,
- In fact, the, the, the wrong thing in
that is what you're saying.
It was, that was not an afactor at all. Right, right.
- Right. Now, has thischanged? Yeah, of course.

(27:05):
It's changed. Uhhuh,, um, you know, you go
to some of, go to the, theEmirates, for example. Know
- I to say, I do know anIslamic family that has a petar
- Of course.
Or live, you know, a veryWestern style life. Yes.
And so you're living in a, ina co-op building, you know,
a hundred floors, uh,in the middle of Dubai,
a hundred floors up, you know?
Yeah. And you're living avery western style life.

(27:26):
And a lot of people havepets, uh, dogs as pets.
There's no doubt about it. Yeah.
But, um, for the Maine,
this has been somethingthat you didn't do.
Yeah. And, and you comparethat to the European Western
tradition of Yes.
Having the pet inside thehouse as a source of affection.
- Yes.- Completely different.

(27:46):
- Yeah. Yeah. Now, in those,in those, uh, cultures,
would there be pets of other kinds?
Anything like that,that might be kept out?
Did you notice, did you seeanything in Jordan torn?
- Not that I can think of.
Well, for the elite in thosesocieties, falcons birds. Ah,
- Oh, interesting.
Oh, now we're getting into it.
- You know, but again, this is,
- Is that a pet though?

(28:07):
- It wasn't a working animal,but it was a status symbol.
- A status symbol. Sure. Well, I mean,
so are dogs sometimes too?
Yeah, I'd say that's a pet then. So
I guess we can give them that. Sure.
- And you know, you can, ifyou travel even as a tourist
to Gulf Arabia, you can, uh,participate in falconry, uh,
uhhuh events, Uhhuh ,you know, you hold out

(28:27):
for a fee, you, they'll putthe leather band on your arm
and you can hold your arm out
and then suddenly be thrilled
with a 60 pound falconlanding on your hand.
, . Those birds are heavy.
- They are not quite 60 pounds, but Yes.
- Well, alright. ,
- The one I think that you had, it felt

(28:48):
- Like 60 pounds to me.
- Well, dad, good enough. And
- I'm standing there going, get the attic.
- . I'm this- Bird of prey, ,
- It's about to suck all theblood out of my neck. Oh, no
- Wait. Wrong. It's going from my eyes.
- Wrong animal. Oh, youreyes. Sure, sure. .
Well, yeah, I can see that.

(29:09):
That also leads us, I know thata, in, in the United States,
there's been a major, um, problem with,
we were talking aboutbefore, , your,
your relative going down
and pilfering, uh, tropicalfish out of, um, the Amazon. He
- Was, he was the first personto import tropical fish. He
- Was importing it right into the
United States. So that, that makes it

(29:30):
- Better.
His give him not sure He was still
exploiting whatever he could.
It's still colonialism. Absolutely.
Anyway, and, and, and didanybody in the Amazons
benefit from his presence? I doubt.
- Probably not. No, no.It minimally.
Um, but, um, that being said, one
of the things in the UnitedStates is there's a whole both,

(29:51):
uh, legal and, and illegal.
And probably the illegal oneis probably much larger, uh,
industry of, of, of pets.
- Exotic- Pets. Exotic pets. Yes.
Which is a, a nice term for things
who shouldn't be pets pretty much.
Um, but, and, and snakes, um, spiders.
And I think those are some ofthe good ones, as opposed to,

(30:13):
um, bringing in things like large
- Carnivores.
- Yeah. Large cats of, uh, yes.
Um, and you've got tigers and, uh,
and lions and things like that.
- I had a friend, more
or less a, a neighbor actually,who lived upstairs from me,
um, when I was in my twenties in,
in the strange apartment in Brooklyn,
who had a monkey as a pet.

(30:35):
Yeah. And, um, every timeI entered his apartment,
you know, I, I felt a bit uncomfortable
because the monkey was always in a cage.
Mm-Hmm. . And so
that made me feel uncomfortable.
And then I would feel even more
uncomfortable when the monkey came outta
- The cage.
Outta the cage. Yeah. Right.
- And it made me think thisguy shouldn't have a monkey

(30:55):
No. In New York City.
- No. You know, I, and,
and I'm sure there'speople out there going,
wait a minute, hold on.
I've had, you know, monkeys
and I have the small monkey,
then it, and it's perfectly fine.
I treat it very well,and it has free to run
around and so on.
And, and I'm sure there are situations
where they do get treated quite well.
Um, however, I, I still amuncomfortable just with the idea

(31:19):
and, and of, of animals that are used
to being out in these open spaces,
or I guess you could sayshould be being used in a form,
just, it's really in forthe comfort of the human.
Because I, I maybe the animal'sgetting something out of it
that's beyond that, it's hardto, to communicate with 'em.

(31:39):
So it's tough to really tell.
But I'm guessing that in somecases at least, they're just,
that's, they're just a, a,you know, a trained thing.
You know, you, I, they're notdomesticated animals as a,
as a cat and a dog are.
Um, they are, they areanimals that are wild
and they're being brought in.
And, um, as far as we know,we, we don't have the ability

(32:02):
to domesticate them.
And every once in a while, youknow, we hear the stories of,
of the one that, thatgets extremely angry.
Look, that happens withdomesticated animals too. Oh. That
- Happens with people.
- Oh, it often happenswith people. It's .
- I don't know how youcan domesticate people.
- No, that's, that's the,that's a challenge. Part
- Of which is why you nevercall your closest ones my pet

(32:24):
- .
Oh, okay. Uh, is ittime for a commercial or
- Anything?
- ? Uh, no. Petcowanna buy time. Anybody?
Um, , this is why I'm not the pet.
- .

(32:46):
I remember Ira, this kidin the seventh grade.
- Oh, IRA, I- Remember.
- Yeah. No idea. You're talking about
- Kid in the seventhgrade, he kept, uh, snakes.
He it Yes. Pythons.
Remember there little,a kid who had a python
and a uhhuh tank.
And I remember being in,um, social studies class
and his mother runs into theclassroom demanding to see him.

(33:08):
And because the python had
escaped and she leftthe house. . Yeah.
- Smart. Get outta there. Yep.
- That snake got out andshe got out. Yeah. Yeah.
- Wise . Absolutely.Get out of jumps.
Vacate the premises. . Yes.
It's a, it's a, um, well, pythons
and like boa constrictors andother animals like that, or,

(33:30):
or the snakes like that.
They have become a majorproblem in the United States
because people in Florida, especially
because people have let them go. They
- Are, you're gonnatalk about the flushing,
the alligators down the,
- No, that's not a real thing.
But, um, but, but this is real.
They, these are releasing theminto the Everglades with the,

(33:51):
with the concept of, oh,
well it'll disappear into the Everglades,
but there are no predatorsfor these creatures.
Mm-Hmm. So they can find things to eat
and they can multiply as soonas there's, you know, a male
and a female, we can, it's a Garden
of Eden in there for them.
And that's what's happened.
And there is a major problem down.
They're actually doing huntsnow in the Everglades to,

(34:14):
to rid the Everglades of them.
'cause they're, they'renot indigenous. Mm.
They've been brought in forother parts of the world.
And it's a, it's a serious problem.
And I think that's been true with other,
other things from, um, other pets.
- Well, when you bring ananimal out of its territory
and you bring it to a new environment that
where it never existed
before, you're puttingeverything out of balance.

(34:36):
Yes. And you're gonna getsome weird stuff going on
after you do something like that.
Yeah. And I think that's,that's what we're seeing
- It is.
- So, you know, cullinganimals becoming a business, be
becoming an economicopportunity to have hunting
because animals need to be called
because they've beenintroduced into places

(34:57):
where they shouldn't have been
introduced in the first place.
Right. It's, yeah. Verydebatable. Very debatable. It,
- It's practice.
It's all questionable. Butit's, it's, but it goes to pets.
'cause they were, the, thebottom line of that seems to be
that the idea was these,
these creatures havebeen brought to be pets.
And are they, are theyactually becoming pets also?

(35:20):
Um, some of these animalslive an incredibly long time.
And so I guess and another cultural
- Oh, like the parrot.
Yeah. We're talking about birds as
as pets parrots typicallyhave, I'm sorry to interrupt.
- No, you're not. Actuallydidn't, and we covered that
- .
But, but, but you, you know,
you stimulate my thought when you

(35:41):
say things and then beg your
- Pardon?
- . . Well,you, you did, you you,
you're talking about theseanimals that live very long
and it made me think Aha.
Like the parrot. Ah, right. Yes.
Which is why pirates had traditionally
a pa How did a pirate, by theway, develop the stereotype
that they have, which is there'salways an ancient parrot on

(36:02):
their shoulder, an
- Ancient parrot on their- Shoulder.
Well, I'm assuming they'velived a very long time.
- Yeah. Okay. I see.Because someone said that.
I think I heard it on a podcast. Right?
Exactly. Oh, recently
- .
It sound like Gilbert Godfreya patch on one eye. ,
- They all sound like Gilbert Godfrey.
- They all sound like Gilbert Godfrey,
- Which is great.
- Sure. We love it. Yep.

(36:23):
- . Well, whohas the patch? The para?
- Well, no, in advanced stereotypes.
The parrot also has a patch. I see.
- I think stereotypes,we, we only wanna play
with advanced stereotype .
- Is there a breakfast cerealwhere the, there's a parrot
as the car Cat crunch
- Two can cat- Crunch? A
- Two- Can. It's a two can for,
- It's got a patch on its- Eye.
No, the two can doesnot have a patch. It's

(36:44):
- Not a patch. There is one.
- Well, it might be on,is this Captain Crunch?
Have a parrot on there? Mine,I don't know. I don't know.
It's, I haven't eaten CaptainCrunch in a long time.
- This implies of course,that the parrot had something
wrong with its eye andwent to the optometrist
and they put a patch on it because
- The parrot would need the patch.
. You know, that's definitely's
because God forbid peoplecould see any kind of deformity

(37:06):
or any, any problem with the eye.
So, well, you know, ,
- It's, well the pirate, thepirate master could only see it
with one eye because he also had
a patch on his eye. I don't
- See, no, they gotta be on the
right, on the correct shoulder. Which
- Is why the- Parrot is, which is
where the eye is. Right. Which
- Is why the parrot isalways on the left shoulder.
And the parro and the pirate.

(37:26):
The pirate master isalways, , always,
always has a patch on the left
- Arm.
Is it a pirate master or a parro master?
- Yes. .- Well, the parrot
- Could, the pirate is theparro master. But the parent
- Could sometimes be the pirate master.
- The parrot can be the pirate master if
- The parrot takes charge.

(37:46):
- If the parrot plays itcard's. Right, exactly.
A card playing parrot. Now we're talking.
But if exactly addsentertainment . But,
- But if the parrot wasnot a pirate master Yes.
Then the pirate, usuallythe parrot master.
- I see. Uh, without a doubt.Yes, correct. Clearly there's
- Pirate's booty.
Is that what, is thatwhat you're thinking of?

(38:07):
- Pirate- Booty Pirate's. Booty.
- What? What's pirate Booty?
That's their what they That's a,
- It's a snack.
It's like a cheesy
- Snack.
Oh it is? Oh yeah. Oh, I see. And
- It's got a pirate with theeye patch and the parrot.
I don't know if the parrot has an eye
patch. I can't see that, but
- Oh, I see. Definitely
- Has the parrot,- The
- Pirate- Booty.
I don't. Okay. Oh yeah.
Lots of things I could say about that.
And I will refrain fromsaying all of them. ,

(38:29):
- Well say one.
- Okay. .- We can only see one of the parrot's.
Eyes. Eyes. I didn't, so theother eye may have a patch.
- It may have a patch and,
and it's, it's, it's, well,pirate booty could .
That's be, wouldn't thatbe like the backside
of the pirate? Am I wrong on that?
- It's pirate's booty.- Oh, pirate's possessive.
Well, okay. Still, is it, isit possessive? Well, let's,

(38:50):
- Let's be accurate here.
- And is there a patch on it?- ? We'll never know.
- Goodness. - We'll, goodness.Never know. Goodness. Thank
- Goodness- I choose the backside of the
- Bag.
. I choose not to know.
- You could have patchesall over the place.
Could on your eye. It may.
- Sure. wherever you want.
- Oh my God. Well, uh, I think we've

(39:11):
absolutely covered this .
- Well, I have one question.- Okay. Before we put
- The, if you put the patch in the right
place, you have covered it. Yeah, I think
- Exactly. .
- So Dean, I'm wondering, youknow, we talked about how cats
and dogs are, you know,very common pets in the US
and are domesticated animals.
Are there other animals inother cultures that are kind
of known for being common pets

(39:33):
that are more domesticated, that you
- Can think of in the traditionaldefinition of the pet,
which is the non-working animal?
Yeah. I, I think,
and with the exceptionof the elites of any
of these cultures, 'causethey've been able, like as
- Ubiquitous as it- Is in the past Yeah.
As a mass phenomenon. Right.
Um, I think the western concept of the dog

(39:54):
and the cat and the really Okay.
And the probably then thebird and the fish Yeah.
After that, but okay. Yeah.
That's pretty much, that'sbecome pretty much universal.
But I think that's amodern development. Hmm.
- Okay. - Well it, it's it,you know, I, I think that, um,
I know I've learned a lot
- Have- You today.

(40:14):
Unfortunately none of it's cultural. But
- I learned a lot about pirate's booty.
- But then again, isn't,isn't everything cultural?
- Everything has acultural element. Does it?
And sometimes those elements,
- I mean, we are goingby that, but you know,
- Sometimes they're a whole lot more
important than in other cultures.
Um, now
- , yes.

(40:36):
We've lost him. You're gonnacut this out. Well, that's it.
. Oh no, we'rekeeping this. Oh, that's it.
This is gold. That's all in,
it's all gold all in. We need to return
- To the pirate and the parrot. Great.
- Good. We didn't cover that enough,
- Really.
- You know what I'm saying?- 'cause the, it,
there's not only the patch on the eye
and the parrot on the shoulder ,
but there's also the missing arm

(40:56):
that's replaced with a hook.
Mm-Hmm. . And,
and usually a leg that'sreplaced with a peg leg
with a wooden right.
Yes. Wooden leg. Right? Yes. Yes.
- That's a dangerous job. Yeah. Is
- That where it all comes- From?
Absolutely. I assume. Yeah.
And these people who are,are captains have, have been
so out front so much
and have been in the midst ofthe, of the battles and the,

(41:19):
and the, and the entanglements and,
and all the things thatcan happen in that, in
that profession that theyhave been, um, marred and
therefore they're, they're marred
- And scarred. Mard
- Andd.
Mm-Hmm. .And these are their badges
of courage that they've shown
- Now in that same stereotype
with the believe that on the para

(41:39):
- It just running it out there.
- Didn't the, didn't theParols have a peg leg?
- Pe- I think it should, I think it did.
- I think there may be a fewanimations like that. Yes.
Let's hope not. Real life. Alright. Well, yes,
- To your point, parrot live,we're back a very long time.
They do. And they outlive their masters in
Yes. In many cases

(42:01):
- They do.
And, and, and that's true.
And so you have to kind of deal
with them almost likechildren in those situations.
They far outlive.
Usually they will far outlivedogs and cats. Um, Mm-Hmm.
. That is, that is, I,
I don't know for sure how long.
Yeah. And some of the birds live a
considerably long time. I'm,
- I'm seeing their lifespanis as little as 20 to 30 years

(42:22):
for smaller species up to50 years or more for larger
- Species.
Yeah. I mean, come on. If you're,if, if you're 50 years old
and you get a parrot Yeah.
You got a shot at having toleave it in your will. Yeah.
You know, a serious one. And,and that's, and that's true.
- And that's why the parrot'shanging around. You bet.
And when it finds out no placethat it's not in the will,
you're gonna have one piss parrot .

(42:43):
- Well, you know what? Idon't know of any better time
to wrap up our podcast,
but on a piss parrot .
So thank you Dean Foster.
- Hey, thank you Tom.
- And, uh, thank you Torin.
We're glad you're with us again
and we're all in studio and me too.
And we're just happy that thiswhole thing is moving forward

(43:04):
and we hope you're all safe
and everybody is still taking precautions
unless you're listening toit after we've gotten by.
In which case, thankgoodness we got bye .
Mm-Hmm .Anyhow. Hope your pet is safe
and you all enjoy yourpets, whatever they may be,
and take good care of themand treat them very well
and name them Very clever names

(43:25):
- . That's
- Important.
That was the in the will by the way of, of
G Gordon lid .
So, so, so that's, uh, this podcast
of, oops,
- Your culture's showing- Smell.
Ya.

(43:52):
- Okay, listen, the way toget hold of us is, oops.
Culture [e-mail] andour Twitter handle is, oops.
Culture show. Whetherthis is the first episode
or the third episode,
or whatever episodethat you've listened to,
you should really subscribe.
That's the best way to go.
Really, honestly, I knowwhat I'm talking about.
Alright, so just subscribe through iTunes

(44:14):
or through wherever youget your podcasts from.
Subscribe. Thank you.