June 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Have a question about something you read in the Bible? Each Saturday on Open Line, Dr. Michael Rydelnik opens the Scriptures and teaches us how to understand them better. Call us with what has you stumped this weekend on Open Line.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:09):
There were many questions this week about Israel striking Iran.
Can we think biblically about this? Stay with me and
we'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends.
Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study Across America.
My name is Michael Wright. I'm academic dean and professor
of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. I'm
(00:33):
so grateful to be joining you around the radio kitchen table.
We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
the spiritual life. So if you have a question and
you'd like to call the phone number, here is (877) 548-3675.
(00:53):
Let me give that to you once again. You can
write it down 5483675. And it's always smart if you
want to get through. If you don't want to be
listening to busy dial tone. A busy signal the whole time.
Call early in the program right now because there are
(01:15):
lots of lines open. It's just opening up right now.
Phone number (877) 548-3675 to you to hear. And Lisa are
looking out for the program today producing. And Omar Mendoza
is our tech guy. Once again Rihanna is answering the phones.
The phone number (877) 548-3675. Go get yourself a cup of coffee.
(01:42):
Open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together.
Last week, Israeli jets began a stunning assault on Iran,
specifically its nuclear warhead and ballistic missile programs. Iran has
responded by shooting ballistic missiles into civilian communities in Israel.
(02:04):
Although Israel has successfully shot down the vast majority of
these missiles, they've not been able, even with U.S. help,
to shoot all of them down. It's led to destruction
all around Israel, as well as 24 civilian deaths. How
can we think appropriately about Israel's preemptive assault on Iran? Well,
(02:26):
first of all, self-defense is permitted in the Bible. For example,
in Exodus 22 three, if a thief is caught in
the midst of a breakdown and then is killed by
a homeowner, the homeowner is not guilty of manslaughter. Also
in the New Testament, Luke 2236, the Lord directed his
(02:48):
followers to carry a sword implicitly for their own self-defense. Furthermore,
Romans 13 four gives the government a responsibility to use
the power of the sword to protect the innocent and
punish the wicked. This demonstrates that the biblical right of
self-defense is for governments, not merely for individuals. Well, second,
(03:14):
the Israeli attack, I believe, met the standards of just
war theory. Since the time of Augustine, Christian theologians have
discussed and determined what could be deemed a just war.
And here are the six characteristics of just war. First
(03:34):
of all, a war must have a just cause. It
can't be a war of aggression to take land or
natural resources in this war that we're talking about. Now, Iran,
the world's worst state sponsor of terror, was close to
nuclear breakout. Moreover, Iran. Ever since, the Islamic Revolution has
(03:58):
called for and worked toward the annihilation of Israel. What
could be a more just cause than preventing Iran from
gaining the ability to carry out yet another holocaust of
the Jewish people? Second, a war must be waged by
legitimate authority. No individuals or groups other than the actual government,
(04:18):
in this case, the government of Israel could take this action.
Only the government has been given the sword to act as, quote,
God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one
who does wrong. Romans 13 four. Third, a war, a
just war must be a last resort. The West has
(04:43):
been negotiating and trying to prevent Iran from seeking and
fulfilling its nuclear aspirations for some 25 years. Recently, the U.S.
president gave the Iranian government 60 days to come to
an agreement. When those negotiations failed, Israel acted. Of course,
some have argued that Israel should have waited longer. But
(05:04):
think of the tragedy that would have resulted if Israel
had waited as Iran strung the U.S. along. Afterwards, Israel
could no longer take preemptive action, because by then Iran
would already have nukes. Or worse, if Israel could only
retaliate for a nuclear bomb on Tel Aviv rather than
to prevent one. They had to act at this time. Forth,
(05:28):
a war must have a just intention. It can't be
mere vengeance or hatred for an enemy. It must. It
must be to protect the nation or prevent disaster. Israel's
goal is just. It's to prevent the Iranian Islamic government
from wiping out Israel. Fifth, a war must be fought justly.
(05:54):
Armed conflict must focus on a legitimate military target, not civilians.
There may be civilian collateral damage. That's sadly a result
of war, but it should never be the goal. Israel
has made the Iranian military its target, while Iran has
deliberately attacked civilians with their ballistic missiles. Sixth, a war
(06:18):
must be proportionate. Proportionality does not mean both sides having
the same number of deaths or equal destruction. Rather, it
means that the attack must be proportional to the objective.
For example, if Israel had nuclear bombs and could end
this Iranian plan instantly by dropping a nuke on Tehran,
(06:40):
that would be disproportionate. Instead, Israel is acting to end
the threat with a proportionate attack on Iran's military leadership.
Missile production and launchers. And of course, their nuclear sites.
So what can we say? Well, Holocaust survivor and Nobel
laureate Elie Wiesel once asked what was the great lesson
(07:03):
of the Holocaust. His reply was, when someone threatens to
kill you, believe him. Iran has been threatening to kill
all the Jewish people now for a generation, the Jewish
state has learned the lesson of the Holocaust and believed Iran.
(07:23):
And instead of being victims this time. The Israeli government
set out to invalidate the Iranian threat. That's posted over
at michael-ray. Org. It's the most recent blog post, so
(07:47):
if you're interested, you can go over there and maybe
even a little bit later we'll post it on our
Facebook page, link it over there, but I do. Before
we go to the phones, I want to tell you
about our current resource. Uh, it is one of my
favorite resources that I think we've ever had. I often
(08:08):
tell people that everyone should have a Bible library, and
one of the books in that library is a Bible dictionary.
And that's why when you're reading the Bible and you
wonder who are these people that are mentioned, or where
is that place, or what is the event that's cited?
You can look it up in the Bible dictionary. And
(08:31):
right now when you give a gift of any size,
we'd like to say thanks by sending you the Ultimate
Bible Dictionary. It's published by B and H. It's the
same publisher that produced the Holman CSB. My favorite Bible translation,
the Ultimate Bible Dictionary, is small. It's easy to carry.
It's easy to use. It is just a terrific, terrific
(08:51):
little resource. And if you'd like a copy, it's yours.
When you give a gift of any size. And now's
a pretty crucial time to give a gift. It's the
end of the fiscal year. June 30th is when the
books are closed. And if you'd like to give a
gift now, we sure would appreciate it. It would really
help us stay stable financially, uh, in upcoming year. So, uh,
(09:12):
that's something that we'd really appreciate. And we want to
say thanks with the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. If you'd like
to give a gift, go to our website, Open Line Radio.
Org or call (888) 644-7122. That's (888) 644-7122. And we're going to
(09:33):
go to the phones right now. We're going to talk
to Renee in Lakeland Florida listening on KX. Welcome to
Open Line Renee. How can I help you today.
S2 (09:44):
Hi. It's nice to meet you. I listen to you
every single day. It seems like, um. I had a
quick question about the book of Exodus. Um, I just
started the Bible over. Uh, naturally. And whenever Moses was
on the mountain and came back down and the people
had made, um, idols, which they were told not to do,
(10:05):
of course. And he was really angry. And then he
called the people that are going to follow God, um,
you know, over to him. And so everyone else, um,
basically they killed, but then it says they and God
sent plagues on them was so he still plagued the
people that were down there with the people that were
(10:26):
doing that. And I didn't understand that.
S1 (10:30):
Tell me, tell me what it is that you're the
passage you're looking at.
S2 (10:34):
Um, the book of Exodus.
S1 (10:37):
When he comes down from the mountain and sees the
golden calf. Right?
S2 (10:41):
Yes.
S1 (10:42):
Okay. And, uh, so I'm looking here. I'm looking at
the passage with the golden calf. That's Exodus 31. Uh, and, uh,
and so, uh, can you. I'm not sure what you're
(11:04):
talking about, actually.
S2 (11:06):
Well, they, they, uh, he said and all the ones
that are for God. I'm so sorry. Um, it just
it really alarmed me the other day, and I had
wrote it down so I could call and ask you,
and I just wrote a quick little, um. Anyways.
S1 (11:21):
Um, well, I'm looking at I'm looking at chapter 32, and, uh,
I'm looking at it right here and.
S2 (11:30):
32.
S1 (11:32):
And it says Levites did as Moses commanded. About 3000
men fell dead that day among the people afterward, Moses said, today,
you've been dedicated to the Lord since each man went
against his son and his brother. Therefore, you've brought a
blessing on yourselves. And then he says, forgive their sin.
(11:53):
Of verse 35, I see it. Uh, what he's talking
about there is verse 28. Uh, it's a summary statement.
It's a it's a reiteration of what had happened previously
in verse 28. It is not saying and furthermore, he
(12:15):
did more. It's saying that this and so summary statement,
the Lord inflicted a plague on the people for what
they did with the calf Aaron had made. So it's
going back to verse 28, uh, to what they had
done there. Okay. It's a summary statement. Okay. Not it's
(12:36):
a reiteration, not a, um, a Furthermore. Do you understand?
It's not. It's not advancing it even further. It's just
summarizing what already has happened.
S2 (12:50):
I was hoping I misunderstood because I just remember thinking
I listened to the YouVersion Bible app as well and
and just hearing it. And then I heard him say,
and then he, you know, he flagged them, so I.
S1 (13:01):
Well, Renee, listen, it's a pretty common mistake. So much
so that that when, when I looked at verse 35,
I wrote in it. Right. Look at verse 28. Uh,
to go back to remind myself what it was talking about. Okay.
S2 (13:17):
Perfect. And I took a note of that. And I'm
going to put that in my Bible later. And I
thank you so much for your time and clarification.
S1 (13:25):
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And we're going
to come right back. We're going to take a break here.
When we come back, we're going to talk to you
about your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life.
My name is Michael Melnick and this program is called
Open Line. Give us a call (877) 548-3675. And the Bible
(13:47):
study across America will continue. Stay with us. Welcome back
(14:08):
to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. So glad to
be talking with you. Hey, I wanted to tell you something.
It is a heat wave Saturday, right? It's a heat
wave Saturday. And we're thinking, boy, it's never going to
get cold again. Right here in the Midwest. It's very hot. Uh,
it's going to be up close to 100 today. But
(14:30):
you know what? December will come and it will be cold,
and everyone will want to get out of Chicago if
we can, in December. And now's the time to plan that.
I wanted to let you know that there are just
a few cabins left on a cruise that I'll be
teaching the Bible, on a Bible conference, on a on
a ship in the Caribbean next December 6th through the 13th.
(14:53):
It's going to be a great time. And if you're
interested in studying the book of Daniel with me and
seeing the Caribbean on a tall ship with beautiful sails, uh,
and having a great time in the middle of December,
now's the time to plan it. Just go to openlibrary.org
and scroll down till you see the link that says
(15:15):
Michael Melnick's personal web page. If you go to my
web page, you'll be able to see the upcoming trip
to the Caribbean in December. If you're interested in joining
me for that week, we'll have a great time. We're
going to go right to the phones now and talk
with Tammy in Chicago listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line, Tammy.
(15:38):
How can I help you today.
S3 (15:40):
Doctor? What an honor to speak to you this week online.
S1 (15:44):
Honored to speak to you, Tammy.
S3 (15:47):
Thank you, thank you. Um, there was quite a heated
debate between Senator Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson. I don't
know if you know the clip I'm referring to.
S1 (15:57):
I yeah. Sure do.
S3 (15:59):
Okay. How would you have responded to that exchange?
S1 (16:05):
Well, let's see, the first thing is that the two
issues that I've been hearing that came up, let's correct
me if I'm wrong. One is that modern Israel is
not the same as. Biblical Israel. Is that one of
the first things that came up?
S3 (16:24):
Yes.
S1 (16:25):
Okay. I would say there certainly is overlap when people say,
is it the same kind of government? No. The biblical
Israel was a theocratic government with a king. This is
a modern democracy, a secular government with a prime minister
and a parliament. And so it's not exactly the same
(16:49):
constitution or structure, you would say, of the modern Israel
as biblical Israel. But they were both nation states of
the Jewish people, biblical Israel as well as modern Israel.
And so as that, in that sense, it is the same.
It doesn't have the same boundaries, you know, and the
(17:10):
boundary is always kind of fluctuated between the time of
David and Solomon and then later on got a little smaller.
But nevertheless, if we are we saying is modern Israel,
the nation state of the Jewish people, the people of Israel,
the ethnic Israel? That's true and is ancient biblical Israel,
(17:34):
the nation state of of the Jewish people of ancient Israel,
ethnic Israel. The answer, again, is yes. So in that sense,
we have to recognize that that it is. There they were.
And also it's kind of interesting, the biblical prophets foretold,
for example, in Ezekiel 37, the regathering of the Jewish people,
(17:59):
after their expulsion to the many nations around the world,
they were going to be brought back to the land
of Israel. And so Ezekiel 37 talks about them coming
back in stages, and only once they're back, then they
would have the spirit breathed into them the spirit of life.
(18:19):
And so it seems to say that they would first
come back before they believed in the Messiah, Jesus. And
only at the culmination of that time would they believe.
And there are many other passages. Even so, many of
the end time events needs to have a reconstituted Israel
in the land for those events to happen. So when
people say, is it the same, it's not the exact
(18:40):
same kind of government, but it is the same nation
state of the Jewish people. Secondly, uh, the question is,
let's see if I get the second question right. Should
we care about the Jewish people? And of course, uh,
I think believers, I'm not talking about governments, but believers
need to. And the reason is, of course, Genesis 12
(19:03):
three I will bless those who bless you and curse
the one who curses you. And just recently, I was
reading one of the shortest books of the Bible. Uh,
it's called Obadiah. And the thing that struck me about
Obadiah is it's a reminder to Israel that Edom would
(19:26):
face judgment. Uh, and and this is the the the
reminder here it says that Edom would be this. Verse
ten will be covered with shame and destroyed forever because
of violence done to your brother Jacob. This is taking
place or after the Babylonian captivity is what it's talking about.
(19:48):
That when the Babylonians came and conquered Judah, the Edomites,
who were their brothers, they were the descendants of Esau,
turned a blind eye and in fact went along with
what Babylon did. And because of that they gloated over
your brother. It says, in the day of his calamity,
(20:10):
do not rejoice over the people of Judah and the
day of their destruction. Do not boastfully mock in the
day of distress. That's verse 12 do not enter the
gate of my people in the day of their disaster. Yes,
you do not gloat over their misery in the day
of their disaster. And so it makes it really clear
that the Lord is going to intervene. The day of
(20:33):
the Lord is near against all the nations. Uh, there
will be deliverance, verse 17, on Mount Zion. So I
think as believers, we have a responsibility not to turn
our backs or to celebrate the difficulties that Israel may
be facing. Um, right now, uh, we have a responsibility
(20:56):
to care for them. And then last of all, I
think the best answer for us is to remember that
Israel's help as a nation doesn't come from the United States,
even though I believe people should look carefully at those
verses in Obadiah to remind us of that. But Psalm
121 is a great reminder. It says, I will lift
(21:20):
toward the mountains. Where will my help come from? Usually
the mountains is where you got your help. You know
the cavalry is coming to ride to the rescue. Then
the psalmist says, no, my help comes from the Lord,
the maker of heaven and earth. He will not allow
your foot to slip. Your protector will not slumber. Indeed,
the guardian of Israel does not slumber or sleep. So
(21:44):
I remember many years ago, during some negotiations about 1998, Netanyahu,
Benjamin Netanyahu was in his first term as prime minister
of Israel. And he said, I am responsible for the
security of Israel. And I thought, well, he has been
delegated that responsibility. But the real responsibility is the God
(22:05):
of Israel, who neither slumbers nor sleeps. He's the one
that will take care of that. And that's what we
have to trust and pray for. So did that help
at all, Tami?
S3 (22:15):
It sure did. Thank you so much, Doctor Reidel. Mike,
I appreciate it.
S1 (22:20):
Sure. Thank you. And thanks. Thanks for the the very
good question. I think, uh, believe it or not, someone
called yesterday and said, you need to write a little
book about this very subject. And so that's what I'm
going to spend my July doing.
S4 (22:34):
So good way to spend your time.
S3 (22:36):
I'll look forward to that.
S1 (22:38):
Okay. Great. Thank you so much, Tammy. We're going to
talk with Jane in Batavia, Illinois, listening on Wmbi. Welcome
to Open Line. Jane. How can I help you today?
S5 (22:49):
Yeah. I'm so glad I was what you just said before.
It really resonated with me. But my question is, I'm
in several Bible studies and I love getting involved with them.
And I'm in one where there's more men than women
who are almost equal. But we discussed the book of
Esther and they said it shouldn't be in the Bible.
(23:11):
I disagree, but I'd like your comments because I think.
S1 (23:14):
They said it shouldn't be in the Bible.
S5 (23:17):
Well, they said, because the word God is not mentioned
in that particular book. I disagree with that. Yeah. And
I've been reading it. I've been reading Esther many. I've
been reading through the Bible many times. And I listen
to you often, sometimes when I'm driving. But today I
wanted to get in because of our Bible study that meets.
(23:38):
You know, I said I wanted to get some comments
from you about what you thought about that book.
S1 (23:43):
Okay, Jane, let me just say you hang on after
we're done talking and Lisa's going to get your name
and address, and we're going to mail you a copy
of a book I wrote called 50 Most Important Bible
Questions because one.
S5 (24:00):
I have.
S6 (24:00):
It. Oh.
S1 (24:01):
Well, you have to read it, too, Jane. You can't
just own it, you know, you got to read it.
Here's why.
S4 (24:07):
So many bookmarks through that book.
S5 (24:09):
I just love that book.
S4 (24:12):
Maybe there's another one to give to some.
S5 (24:14):
Of the leader in.
S4 (24:15):
Our group.
S1 (24:17):
I'm going to answer your question, but there is one
of the questions in that book is Where is God
in the book of Esther? So now here's the first
I've got. Let me try and answer your your question
now if I can. Okay. Yeah. Uh, it is deliberate
(24:37):
that God's name is is left out. It is a
literary strategy. It's not because they forgot that they forgot
to include his name. I mean, there's hints of it
they call a fast. Remember, Esther has people fast for
her for three days and three nights. Uh, they obviously,
throughout the book, they deliberately leave out the name of
(24:59):
God as a literary strategy. But they see God's fingerprints,
his providence, his good work, working out of everything that
was happening for their good to protect the Jewish people.
That's where God is. It is in Providence. The lesson
of the book of Esther for the Jewish people was
(25:19):
even when they forgot God, he didn't forget them. He
took care of them. He protected them. He preserved them.
That was the message there. It's the message for us, too,
that sometimes we neglect the Lord. But he doesn't neglect us.
He's got his eye on us at all times. That's
what providence is, him looking out for us. I hope
(25:40):
that helps. And, uh, go go back and read that
chapter in the book 50 Most Important Bible Questions. I
think you'll like it. We'll be right back with more
of your questions. In fact, the mailbag coming up straight ahead.
(26:05):
And we're back. So glad to be with you on
this Saturday morning. It's time for the Far Eastern Broadcasting
Company mailbag, the Febc mailbag. We're so grateful to Far
Eastern Broadcasting Company for partnering with us and bringing you
the weekly mailbag. It's a terrific organization. They bring the
good news to people all over the globe, through media
(26:26):
and through personal engagement. Check out their podcast. It's called
Until All Have Heard by going to Febc. Now, the
person in charge of the mailbag is Tricia McMillan, producer
of Open Line. Uh, should I call you executive producer?
S7 (26:43):
No, you should not.
S1 (26:45):
Should I call you top notch producer?
S7 (26:48):
No, you can just call me. Producer is fine.
S1 (26:50):
Okay, there we go. Isn't it? Don't you have, like,
a special role as producer?
S7 (26:55):
No, I don't, I don't senior producer. Senior producer is my.
S1 (26:59):
That's it. Yeah, that's that's because you're so much older
than me.
S7 (27:02):
Yes, yes, I'm a senior. No.
S1 (27:07):
No, that's not true. Okay, well, anyway, our senior producer,
Tricia McMillan, is here with the questions that you've sent in.
If you'd like to send a question in, best way
to do that is to go to our website, Open
line radio. Org. Click on the link that says Ask
Michael a question and that's where your question will go.
(27:27):
And it'll come to Tricia's mailbag. And then she'll put
it in this mailbag for us. Uh, hey, I think,
you know, a couple weeks ago I went to Akron,
met a whole bunch of kitchen table partners. But I
had an interesting email this week from someone that I
worked with, um, 40 years ago. Uh, I haven't seen
(27:51):
them in maybe 35 years.
S7 (27:55):
Wow.
S1 (27:55):
Uh, this couple and, uh, and they live out in
the West Coast. They. This is such a cool thing. Uh,
they live on the West Coast. Haven't talked to them.
She somehow she got my phone number, texted me the
wife of this couple, and, uh, she wrote. We listen
every Saturday on the the Moody Radio app.
S7 (28:17):
Wow.
S1 (28:19):
And then she said, and we're kitchen table partners. And
then she had questions for me. Yeah. Not Bible questions
about some contact questions, but I, I was just so
floored by the kindness of that and the, the graciousness
that they showed me in staying friends from a distance
(28:40):
all these years and helping to to be part of
the program by being kitchen table partners. I'm so grateful
for that. Uh, and, and I was thinking about that,
that there may be people out there that have listened
for a long time, whether on a podcast or whether
maybe online or with the Moody Radio app or just
(29:00):
on the radio. What an idea on the radio. And
you've listened for a long time and thought, yeah, I
want to help keep this program going. Uh, and the
best way to do that is by becoming a kitchen
table partner. We so appreciate when you do that. By
giving monthly keeps us on the air weekly and the
the real. We're so grateful for it. We produce a
Bible study moment. It's an audio Bible study that you
(29:22):
click on. It's produced exclusively for our kitchen table partners.
If you're interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, all
you have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go to
open Line radio.org. And again, I'm so grateful for every
one of you for listening, for being a kitchen. For
those of you who are kitchen table partners, and also
(29:43):
for my old friends that they're not old, but they
are friends for a long time and I'm really grateful
for them doing this.
S7 (29:51):
Yeah, that's very cool.
S1 (29:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Out of the blue. Got that text message.
That was a surprise. So, anyway, uh, well, let's let's
talk about some of these questions.
S7 (30:00):
All right. Our first question is from Robert in Ohio,
who listens to in Genesis four after King kills his
brother Abel, God said the ground wouldn't yield its strength,
and Cain would be a wanderer and a vagrant on
the earth. I assumed that, uh, it would follow then,
that Cain would wander and live a lonely life. But
the Bible says that Cain had a son with his wife.
(30:22):
Built a city which doesn't sound like a wanderer. Can
you tell us more about this?
S1 (30:28):
Yeah. There's kind of a dispute among Bible scholars. If
you read commentaries on Genesis about whether or not Cain
repented of his sin. Uh, I guess one of my
favorite scholars seemed to think that he did. I am
not convinced. And that's the reason why. Now, if you
look at the early chapters of the Book of Genesis,
(30:50):
it seems that every time someone is in rebellion against God,
they move eastward. Now, that's that's kind of interesting. Uh,
for example, after Adam and Eve sin, they're cast out
of the garden for their rebellion. And where is the cherub?
The cherub is put at the eastern gate of the
(31:11):
garden to guard them from returning. turning, which means that
they went eastward in their rebellion. And if you look
at Genesis chapter 11, when the the people of the
earth are told to scatter. Uh, they don't do it.
They rebel against God. Instead, they moved eastward. Uh, in
(31:35):
my version here says from the east. But it'd be
better to translate it and move to the east, uh,
in Genesis 11 two. And they set up the Tower
of Babel. Uh, and then when Abram separates from lot,
what does he do? He moves eastward. A lot does
to rebel. Uh, and and he goes to Sodom. Not
(31:59):
a good place to go. Uh, and that's sort of
an interesting thing. He looks uh, lot looked out verse
chapter 13, verse ten, and saw that the entire Jordan
Valley as far as Zoar was well watered, right. And
so he goes eastward. It says in verse 11, then
lot journeyed eastward, and they separated from each other. So
(32:22):
here's a little marker in the text. It seems like
whenever someone moves eastward, they are in rebellion. And here
in Genesis chapter four, when God tells Cain that that
he's supposed to be a restless wanderer on the earth,
and then he says, if I do that, they'll kill me.
(32:46):
God gives them the mark of Cain to protect him.
And then it says in verse 16, Then Cain went
out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land
of nod, east of Eden. So where did he go?
He went.
S7 (32:58):
Eastward.
S1 (32:59):
Yeah. And then not only that, when he's supposed to
be a wanderer, what does he do? He builds a city.
Then Cain became the builder of a city. And he
named the city Enoch after his son. So when you
build a city, that means you're settling down, not wandering.
And so he was in rebellion against God to the
very end. He never really did repent. I think that
(33:21):
that's a very good observation. And the text tells us
that when he went east, that that was a sign
of rebellion, not that always going east, but that's a
kind of a literary marker here in the early chapters
of Genesis.
S7 (33:34):
Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that.
S1 (33:36):
I mean, if I moved to New York, it wouldn't mean.
S8 (33:38):
That I was in sin.
S1 (33:40):
Right? Because that's east of where I live. But that's
just a literary marker. Okay.
S7 (33:45):
Something we can look for as we're reading. One encouraging
thing I did find, which has nothing to do with
Robert's question, but that his son is Enoch, who walked
with God and then was no more like that. That
even if your parent is rebellious against God, it does
not mean that that entire line that you cannot have
(34:08):
a repentant heart and follow God. And it was just
just those little things that I know that Genesis includes
those little markers like you're talking about, but that we
can I find encouragement in that, that, that even if
your family is broken and rebellious, you don't have to
be in God can save you.
S1 (34:27):
The pattern of sin can be broken. Yeah. And then
the other thing that I think is encouraging in this passage,
if there if we can find encouragement, is that God
shows him grace in the midst of judgment. He says,
you're going to wander the earth. He says, everyone will
kill me. Gives them the mark of Cain. That was
God's mercy and grace right there in the midst of
(34:47):
a passage about judgment. So it just shows that God's
mercy is always operating, even sometimes when we're rebelling against him.
S7 (34:57):
Mhm. Thank you. And thank you, Robert, for that question.
That kind of led us to that also. Um, our
next question is from Kim on Facebook who says, I'm
so very grateful for the program. You. Your expertise and
your team. What is the most.
S8 (35:12):
Like the team especially?
S7 (35:14):
What is the most accurate translation from the original writing
of Jeremiah 17, verse nine. And she does not give
any explanation as to why, but I know that you
you can just translate this on the spot from the Hebrew.
And so tell us what Jeremiah 17 nine says.
S1 (35:34):
Okay, I pulled up the Hebrew text. It says the
heart is more crooked than all else, which really has
to do with, you know, when we even use the
word that way. Oh, that guy's crooked. That means dishonest. Deceitful, right?
So the heart is more crooked than all else. In fact,
the word crooked is used of, uh, kinds of sin. Uh,
(35:59):
you know, a dishonest. And so the heart is more
crooked than anything else. And it is, you know, the
new American standard, the most literal translation says it's desperately
wicked or desperately sick. But I think it just means incurable.
That's what the word that's used there means. Uh, it's
(36:23):
so it's the heart is more crooked than anything else.
And it is crooked. Who can know it or who can?
And the word know has to do with understanding. So
that's what it means. I think probably the person's wondering
if the word deceitful means crooked. It does, but it's
a metaphor for deceitfulness.
S8 (36:42):
Okay. So.
S7 (36:43):
All right.
S1 (36:44):
Happy to do it. I love getting to, uh, do
the translation from.
S8 (36:48):
Time to time.
S7 (36:50):
And I think, I think we do need the play
by play, though, because you'll just go silent for a
second and we don't know what's happening.
S1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What is he doing? Well, he's
pulling out his Hebrew Bible and taking a look at it.
That's what he's doing, right? So. Well, we're going to
be right back. That was Tricia McMillan. I'm Michael Melnick.
You're listening to Open Line. More with your questions coming.
More of your questions coming up straight ahead, right here
on Open Line. And we're back. So good to be
(37:30):
with you this Saturday morning talking about the Bible, God
and the spiritual life. All your questions, uh, and, uh,
before we. Before we get on to your calls, I
wanted to mention a current the resource that Chosen People
Ministries is offering because Israel is in a war right now.
(37:53):
Multi-front War. The war with Iran, obviously, that started last week,
but also continued to fight in Gaza Uh, to take
out Hamas. It's. It's a terrible time. I've been talking
to my Israeli friends, and they are just stressed to
no end. But what does the future hold? Chosen people Ministries,
(38:18):
one of our ministry partners, is offering a special book
called Israel's Glorious Future. It details God's faithfulness to his
covenant and his promises that he made to Israel the
past and the present and the future. All God will
be faithful to his people, and Israel's future is certain
and glorious. If you'd like a free copy of Israel's
(38:40):
Glorious future, just go to our website openline. radio.org. That's
our website. Scroll down until you see the link that
says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that
and then you'll be taken to a page where you
can sign up for your very own copy of Israel's
Glorious Future. And. That. Let's start. Uh. Omar with, uh,
(39:07):
Ethan in Libertyville, Illinois, listening on W-m-b-d. Uh, welcome to
Open Line. Ethan. How can I help you?
S9 (39:17):
Yeah. Hi. This is, uh, it's Doctor Rydell. Is that right?
S1 (39:21):
It's Michael. It's fine. Michael.
S8 (39:23):
Okay.
S9 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah. Hi, Michael. Um, so I've got a question
about the, you know, the same thing with the Ted
Cruz and Tucker Carlson interview that everybody had seen. And I'm.
S10 (39:35):
By the way, I want.
S1 (39:37):
To say Tucker Carlson really, uh, has hosted anti-Semites on
his program and not challenged them. He has taken a
terrible attitude about Jewish people. So I think he's has
colored his perspective. Uh, not as a journalist, but, uh,
he's really taken some, uh, attacks. He's attacked Jewish other
(40:01):
Jewish people in media. Uh, it's it's shameful, I think.
S9 (40:08):
Right. Well, this.
S10 (40:10):
He hosted a Holocaust.
S1 (40:11):
Denier of all things. Go ahead.
S10 (40:13):
What's your question?
S9 (40:14):
I did not know that. Yeah. So I'm a young
Christian and, you know, in their early 20s, and I
hear this topic constantly about Zionism. And as Christians, are
we called to have this undying support for modern Israel
or is modern Israel the, the, the new church, the
body of believers on earth?
S10 (40:36):
And I obviously.
S9 (40:37):
Many passages used to support both and it's it's just
hard to navigate that.
S10 (40:42):
Yeah.
S1 (40:42):
I can't answer that whole big question right here.
S8 (40:46):
Yeah.
S1 (40:46):
In in just 2 or 3 minutes. Uh, I do
want to point out to you that in Romans 1128.
S8 (40:55):
Yeah.
S1 (40:56):
Uh, it's a very and the reason I point this
out to you is that a friend of mine said
that they wanted to go ahead and believe that God
had replaced the people of Israel with the church, with a,
quote unquote, new Israel or spiritual Israel. And Romans nine
(41:18):
through 11 kept them from doing that. They couldn't believe it.
It says this about unbelieving Israel in Romans 1128 regarding
the gospel. They are enemies. Now that means they are
opposed to the gospel, not enemies of God. They are
enemies for your advantage, meaning they are opposed to the gospel.
(41:40):
And this is this was good because now the gospel
went out to the Gentiles. That's what he talks about
in verse 11 of the same chapter. But then it says,
but regarding election, which is just a big word for
chosenness regarding being chosen.
S10 (41:54):
Right?
S1 (41:54):
Okay. This is talking about Jewish people. They don't. They're
opposed to the gospel. But regarding Chosenness, they are loved
because of the patriarchs. God gave the Abrahamic Covenant to Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob, and because of that, God loves them. Since
God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable. So, uh, you
(42:16):
go back to chapter nine and there it talks about
the gifts that God has given the Israelites. It says
they are Israelites. To them there's nine, four belong the adoption,
the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the
temple service, and the promises which include the promise of
(42:36):
the land. The ancestors are there, so the patriarchs are theirs,
and from them by physical descent came the Messiah. So, um,
that I think we can't take the promise away from
Israel based on what the Apostle Paul says. Now, the
second thing I want to mention is people misunderstand Zionism.
S10 (42:56):
Uh.
S1 (42:57):
It has been, uh, there's been a propaganda war out
there to somehow dirty the word Zionism. Uh, and I
think this is really a tragedy because Zionism, you know,
you can go back to its roots. Uh, Theodor Herzl,
who developed Zionism at the first Zionist Congress. All it
(43:22):
is is the belief that Jewish people should have self-determination
in their ancient homeland. Just, uh, just the same as, uh,
French patriotism or, uh, English patriotism, uh, thinking that they
(43:46):
should have, you know, we think the English should have
self-determination in England. The Brits should have self-determination in Great Britain. Uh,
the same thing for the Jewish people, like all peoples
of the earth, to be allowed to have self-determination in
their ancient homeland. That's what Zionism is and it has
been turned into something dirty. I recommend a couple of books.
(44:09):
There's a book by Gerald McDermott. Simpler form of it
is called Israel Matters. He's a, I think, a Presbyterian
or an Anglican pastor, a professor who wrote it up
and it's called Israel Matters, and it's a really good
little book. And then there's also a book that he
(44:32):
edited that's a little bit more technical, called The New
Christian Zionism by McDermott. And I recommend both those books
to you because it's not written from the perspective people
dismiss me. Oh, you're Jewish, Michael, so that's why you
say what you do. But McDermott's I can't remember if
he's Anglican or Presbyterian, but he's one of those, uh,
(44:55):
and he certainly is not a dispensationalist like people want
to dismiss it. Uh, he's just someone that that's quite biblical. Um,
in terms of understanding Romans nine through 11, he does
a really good job explaining it. Uh, it's the new
Christian Zionism, but don't I? I am saddened to see
(45:17):
the way people have made Zionism a dirty word. And
they say things like, it's an ethno. Israel is an
ethno nationalist state, meaning an ethnic national state. Well, what
is France? What's Saudi Arabia?
S10 (45:31):
Yeah.
S1 (45:32):
They it's it doesn't mean that there are minorities in
Israel with full rights and full citizens. The freest Arabs
in the world are the Israeli Arabs. They have.
S9 (45:44):
Yeah.
S1 (45:44):
All the freedoms of a democracy. Uh, and and it's
a shame to me that this word has been made
into some sort of dirty word. It shouldn't be. Even
people who believe who are actually Zionists believe in a
a homeland for the Jewish people. So I'm a Zionist
because it's been so defamed. It's unfortunate. Anyway, thanks so
(46:06):
much for your call, Ethan. I really appreciate it. Thanks
for listening, everyone. That's the first hour. Keep listening. There's
a second hour of Open Line on most of these stations,
so you should check it out. Uh, if you if
your station doesn't carry it, you can always listen on
the Moody Radio app or get the podcast. Or listen online.
Go to our web page, Open Line radio.org. During the break,
(46:26):
check out all the things there. Past programs, the question page, uh,
where to get our current resource. How to become a
kitchen table partner. It's all at the website. Our Bible
study across America will continue in the second hour, so
stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Zelnick
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Be right.
S8 (46:48):
Back.
There were many questions this week about Israel striking Iran.
Can we think biblically about this? Stay with me and
we'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends.
Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study Across America.
My name is Michael Wright. I'm academic dean and professor
of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. I'm
(00:33):
so grateful to be joining you around the radio kitchen table.
We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
the spiritual life. So if you have a question and
you'd like to call the phone number, here is (877) 548-3675.
(00:53):
Let me give that to you once again. You can
write it down 5483675. And it's always smart if you
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Call early in the program right now because there are
(01:15):
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Phone number (877) 548-3675 to you to hear. And Lisa are
looking out for the program today producing. And Omar Mendoza
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The phone number (877) 548-3675. Go get yourself a cup of coffee.
(01:42):
Open your Bible. We're about to study the scriptures together.
Last week, Israeli jets began a stunning assault on Iran,
specifically its nuclear warhead and ballistic missile programs. Iran has
responded by shooting ballistic missiles into civilian communities in Israel.
(02:04):
Although Israel has successfully shot down the vast majority of
these missiles, they've not been able, even with U.S. help,
to shoot all of them down. It's led to destruction
all around Israel, as well as 24 civilian deaths. How
can we think appropriately about Israel's preemptive assault on Iran? Well,
(02:26):
first of all, self-defense is permitted in the Bible. For example,
in Exodus 22 three, if a thief is caught in
the midst of a breakdown and then is killed by
a homeowner, the homeowner is not guilty of manslaughter. Also
in the New Testament, Luke 2236, the Lord directed his
(02:48):
followers to carry a sword implicitly for their own self-defense. Furthermore,
Romans 13 four gives the government a responsibility to use
the power of the sword to protect the innocent and
punish the wicked. This demonstrates that the biblical right of
self-defense is for governments, not merely for individuals. Well, second,
(03:14):
the Israeli attack, I believe, met the standards of just
war theory. Since the time of Augustine, Christian theologians have
discussed and determined what could be deemed a just war.
And here are the six characteristics of just war. First
(03:34):
of all, a war must have a just cause. It
can't be a war of aggression to take land or
natural resources in this war that we're talking about. Now, Iran,
the world's worst state sponsor of terror, was close to
nuclear breakout. Moreover, Iran. Ever since, the Islamic Revolution has
(03:58):
called for and worked toward the annihilation of Israel. What
could be a more just cause than preventing Iran from
gaining the ability to carry out yet another holocaust of
the Jewish people? Second, a war must be waged by
legitimate authority. No individuals or groups other than the actual government,
(04:18):
in this case, the government of Israel could take this action.
Only the government has been given the sword to act as, quote,
God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one
who does wrong. Romans 13 four. Third, a war, a
just war must be a last resort. The West has
(04:43):
been negotiating and trying to prevent Iran from seeking and
fulfilling its nuclear aspirations for some 25 years. Recently, the U.S.
president gave the Iranian government 60 days to come to
an agreement. When those negotiations failed, Israel acted. Of course,
some have argued that Israel should have waited longer. But
(05:04):
think of the tragedy that would have resulted if Israel
had waited as Iran strung the U.S. along. Afterwards, Israel
could no longer take preemptive action, because by then Iran
would already have nukes. Or worse, if Israel could only
retaliate for a nuclear bomb on Tel Aviv rather than
to prevent one. They had to act at this time. Forth,
(05:28):
a war must have a just intention. It can't be
mere vengeance or hatred for an enemy. It must. It
must be to protect the nation or prevent disaster. Israel's
goal is just. It's to prevent the Iranian Islamic government
from wiping out Israel. Fifth, a war must be fought justly.
(05:54):
Armed conflict must focus on a legitimate military target, not civilians.
There may be civilian collateral damage. That's sadly a result
of war, but it should never be the goal. Israel
has made the Iranian military its target, while Iran has
deliberately attacked civilians with their ballistic missiles. Sixth, a war
(06:18):
must be proportionate. Proportionality does not mean both sides having
the same number of deaths or equal destruction. Rather, it
means that the attack must be proportional to the objective.
For example, if Israel had nuclear bombs and could end
this Iranian plan instantly by dropping a nuke on Tehran,
(06:40):
that would be disproportionate. Instead, Israel is acting to end
the threat with a proportionate attack on Iran's military leadership.
Missile production and launchers. And of course, their nuclear sites.
So what can we say? Well, Holocaust survivor and Nobel
laureate Elie Wiesel once asked what was the great lesson
(07:03):
of the Holocaust. His reply was, when someone threatens to
kill you, believe him. Iran has been threatening to kill
all the Jewish people now for a generation, the Jewish
state has learned the lesson of the Holocaust and believed Iran.
(07:23):
And instead of being victims this time. The Israeli government
set out to invalidate the Iranian threat. That's posted over
at michael-ray. Org. It's the most recent blog post, so
(07:47):
if you're interested, you can go over there and maybe
even a little bit later we'll post it on our
Facebook page, link it over there, but I do. Before
we go to the phones, I want to tell you
about our current resource. Uh, it is one of my
favorite resources that I think we've ever had. I often
(08:08):
tell people that everyone should have a Bible library, and
one of the books in that library is a Bible dictionary.
And that's why when you're reading the Bible and you
wonder who are these people that are mentioned, or where
is that place, or what is the event that's cited?
You can look it up in the Bible dictionary. And
(08:31):
right now when you give a gift of any size,
we'd like to say thanks by sending you the Ultimate
Bible Dictionary. It's published by B and H. It's the
same publisher that produced the Holman CSB. My favorite Bible translation,
the Ultimate Bible Dictionary, is small. It's easy to carry.
It's easy to use. It is just a terrific, terrific
(08:51):
little resource. And if you'd like a copy, it's yours.
When you give a gift of any size. And now's
a pretty crucial time to give a gift. It's the
end of the fiscal year. June 30th is when the
books are closed. And if you'd like to give a
gift now, we sure would appreciate it. It would really
help us stay stable financially, uh, in upcoming year. So, uh,
(09:12):
that's something that we'd really appreciate. And we want to
say thanks with the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. If you'd like
to give a gift, go to our website, Open Line Radio.
Org or call (888) 644-7122. That's (888) 644-7122. And we're going to
(09:33):
go to the phones right now. We're going to talk
to Renee in Lakeland Florida listening on KX. Welcome to
Open Line Renee. How can I help you today.
S2 (09:44):
Hi. It's nice to meet you. I listen to you
every single day. It seems like, um. I had a
quick question about the book of Exodus. Um, I just
started the Bible over. Uh, naturally. And whenever Moses was
on the mountain and came back down and the people
had made, um, idols, which they were told not to do,
(10:05):
of course. And he was really angry. And then he
called the people that are going to follow God, um,
you know, over to him. And so everyone else, um,
basically they killed, but then it says they and God
sent plagues on them was so he still plagued the
people that were down there with the people that were
(10:26):
doing that. And I didn't understand that.
S1 (10:30):
Tell me, tell me what it is that you're the
passage you're looking at.
S2 (10:34):
Um, the book of Exodus.
S1 (10:37):
When he comes down from the mountain and sees the
golden calf. Right?
S2 (10:41):
Yes.
S1 (10:42):
Okay. And, uh, so I'm looking here. I'm looking at
the passage with the golden calf. That's Exodus 31. Uh, and, uh,
and so, uh, can you. I'm not sure what you're
(11:04):
talking about, actually.
S2 (11:06):
Well, they, they, uh, he said and all the ones
that are for God. I'm so sorry. Um, it just
it really alarmed me the other day, and I had
wrote it down so I could call and ask you,
and I just wrote a quick little, um. Anyways.
S1 (11:21):
Um, well, I'm looking at I'm looking at chapter 32, and, uh,
I'm looking at it right here and.
S2 (11:30):
32.
S1 (11:32):
And it says Levites did as Moses commanded. About 3000
men fell dead that day among the people afterward, Moses said, today,
you've been dedicated to the Lord since each man went
against his son and his brother. Therefore, you've brought a
blessing on yourselves. And then he says, forgive their sin.
(11:53):
Of verse 35, I see it. Uh, what he's talking
about there is verse 28. Uh, it's a summary statement.
It's a it's a reiteration of what had happened previously
in verse 28. It is not saying and furthermore, he
(12:15):
did more. It's saying that this and so summary statement,
the Lord inflicted a plague on the people for what
they did with the calf Aaron had made. So it's
going back to verse 28, uh, to what they had
done there. Okay. It's a summary statement. Okay. Not it's
(12:36):
a reiteration, not a, um, a Furthermore. Do you understand?
It's not. It's not advancing it even further. It's just
summarizing what already has happened.
S2 (12:50):
I was hoping I misunderstood because I just remember thinking
I listened to the YouVersion Bible app as well and
and just hearing it. And then I heard him say,
and then he, you know, he flagged them, so I.
S1 (13:01):
Well, Renee, listen, it's a pretty common mistake. So much
so that that when, when I looked at verse 35,
I wrote in it. Right. Look at verse 28. Uh,
to go back to remind myself what it was talking about. Okay.
S2 (13:17):
Perfect. And I took a note of that. And I'm
going to put that in my Bible later. And I
thank you so much for your time and clarification.
S1 (13:25):
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And we're going
to come right back. We're going to take a break here.
When we come back, we're going to talk to you
about your questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life.
My name is Michael Melnick and this program is called
Open Line. Give us a call (877) 548-3675. And the Bible
(13:47):
study across America will continue. Stay with us. Welcome back
(14:08):
to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. So glad to
be talking with you. Hey, I wanted to tell you something.
It is a heat wave Saturday, right? It's a heat
wave Saturday. And we're thinking, boy, it's never going to
get cold again. Right here in the Midwest. It's very hot. Uh,
it's going to be up close to 100 today. But
(14:30):
you know what? December will come and it will be cold,
and everyone will want to get out of Chicago if
we can, in December. And now's the time to plan that.
I wanted to let you know that there are just
a few cabins left on a cruise that I'll be
teaching the Bible, on a Bible conference, on a on
a ship in the Caribbean next December 6th through the 13th.
(14:53):
It's going to be a great time. And if you're
interested in studying the book of Daniel with me and
seeing the Caribbean on a tall ship with beautiful sails, uh,
and having a great time in the middle of December,
now's the time to plan it. Just go to openlibrary.org
and scroll down till you see the link that says
(15:15):
Michael Melnick's personal web page. If you go to my
web page, you'll be able to see the upcoming trip
to the Caribbean in December. If you're interested in joining
me for that week, we'll have a great time. We're
going to go right to the phones now and talk
with Tammy in Chicago listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line, Tammy.
(15:38):
How can I help you today.
S3 (15:40):
Doctor? What an honor to speak to you this week online.
S1 (15:44):
Honored to speak to you, Tammy.
S3 (15:47):
Thank you, thank you. Um, there was quite a heated
debate between Senator Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson. I don't
know if you know the clip I'm referring to.
S1 (15:57):
I yeah. Sure do.
S3 (15:59):
Okay. How would you have responded to that exchange?
S1 (16:05):
Well, let's see, the first thing is that the two
issues that I've been hearing that came up, let's correct
me if I'm wrong. One is that modern Israel is
not the same as. Biblical Israel. Is that one of
the first things that came up?
S3 (16:24):
Yes.
S1 (16:25):
Okay. I would say there certainly is overlap when people say,
is it the same kind of government? No. The biblical
Israel was a theocratic government with a king. This is
a modern democracy, a secular government with a prime minister
and a parliament. And so it's not exactly the same
(16:49):
constitution or structure, you would say, of the modern Israel
as biblical Israel. But they were both nation states of
the Jewish people, biblical Israel as well as modern Israel.
And so as that, in that sense, it is the same.
It doesn't have the same boundaries, you know, and the
(17:10):
boundary is always kind of fluctuated between the time of
David and Solomon and then later on got a little smaller.
But nevertheless, if we are we saying is modern Israel,
the nation state of the Jewish people, the people of Israel,
the ethnic Israel? That's true and is ancient biblical Israel,
(17:34):
the nation state of of the Jewish people of ancient Israel,
ethnic Israel. The answer, again, is yes. So in that sense,
we have to recognize that that it is. There they were.
And also it's kind of interesting, the biblical prophets foretold,
for example, in Ezekiel 37, the regathering of the Jewish people,
(17:59):
after their expulsion to the many nations around the world,
they were going to be brought back to the land
of Israel. And so Ezekiel 37 talks about them coming
back in stages, and only once they're back, then they
would have the spirit breathed into them the spirit of life.
(18:19):
And so it seems to say that they would first
come back before they believed in the Messiah, Jesus. And
only at the culmination of that time would they believe.
And there are many other passages. Even so, many of
the end time events needs to have a reconstituted Israel
in the land for those events to happen. So when
people say, is it the same, it's not the exact
(18:40):
same kind of government, but it is the same nation
state of the Jewish people. Secondly, uh, the question is,
let's see if I get the second question right. Should
we care about the Jewish people? And of course, uh,
I think believers, I'm not talking about governments, but believers
need to. And the reason is, of course, Genesis 12
(19:03):
three I will bless those who bless you and curse
the one who curses you. And just recently, I was
reading one of the shortest books of the Bible. Uh,
it's called Obadiah. And the thing that struck me about
Obadiah is it's a reminder to Israel that Edom would
(19:26):
face judgment. Uh, and and this is the the the
reminder here it says that Edom would be this. Verse
ten will be covered with shame and destroyed forever because
of violence done to your brother Jacob. This is taking
place or after the Babylonian captivity is what it's talking about.
(19:48):
That when the Babylonians came and conquered Judah, the Edomites,
who were their brothers, they were the descendants of Esau,
turned a blind eye and in fact went along with
what Babylon did. And because of that they gloated over
your brother. It says, in the day of his calamity,
(20:10):
do not rejoice over the people of Judah and the
day of their destruction. Do not boastfully mock in the
day of distress. That's verse 12 do not enter the
gate of my people in the day of their disaster. Yes,
you do not gloat over their misery in the day
of their disaster. And so it makes it really clear
that the Lord is going to intervene. The day of
(20:33):
the Lord is near against all the nations. Uh, there
will be deliverance, verse 17, on Mount Zion. So I
think as believers, we have a responsibility not to turn
our backs or to celebrate the difficulties that Israel may
be facing. Um, right now, uh, we have a responsibility
(20:56):
to care for them. And then last of all, I
think the best answer for us is to remember that
Israel's help as a nation doesn't come from the United States,
even though I believe people should look carefully at those
verses in Obadiah to remind us of that. But Psalm
121 is a great reminder. It says, I will lift
(21:20):
toward the mountains. Where will my help come from? Usually
the mountains is where you got your help. You know
the cavalry is coming to ride to the rescue. Then
the psalmist says, no, my help comes from the Lord,
the maker of heaven and earth. He will not allow
your foot to slip. Your protector will not slumber. Indeed,
the guardian of Israel does not slumber or sleep. So
(21:44):
I remember many years ago, during some negotiations about 1998, Netanyahu,
Benjamin Netanyahu was in his first term as prime minister
of Israel. And he said, I am responsible for the
security of Israel. And I thought, well, he has been
delegated that responsibility. But the real responsibility is the God
(22:05):
of Israel, who neither slumbers nor sleeps. He's the one
that will take care of that. And that's what we
have to trust and pray for. So did that help
at all, Tami?
S3 (22:15):
It sure did. Thank you so much, Doctor Reidel. Mike,
I appreciate it.
S1 (22:20):
Sure. Thank you. And thanks. Thanks for the the very
good question. I think, uh, believe it or not, someone
called yesterday and said, you need to write a little
book about this very subject. And so that's what I'm
going to spend my July doing.
S4 (22:34):
So good way to spend your time.
S3 (22:36):
I'll look forward to that.
S1 (22:38):
Okay. Great. Thank you so much, Tammy. We're going to
talk with Jane in Batavia, Illinois, listening on Wmbi. Welcome
to Open Line. Jane. How can I help you today?
S5 (22:49):
Yeah. I'm so glad I was what you just said before.
It really resonated with me. But my question is, I'm
in several Bible studies and I love getting involved with them.
And I'm in one where there's more men than women
who are almost equal. But we discussed the book of
Esther and they said it shouldn't be in the Bible.
(23:11):
I disagree, but I'd like your comments because I think.
S1 (23:14):
They said it shouldn't be in the Bible.
S5 (23:17):
Well, they said, because the word God is not mentioned
in that particular book. I disagree with that. Yeah. And
I've been reading it. I've been reading Esther many. I've
been reading through the Bible many times. And I listen
to you often, sometimes when I'm driving. But today I
wanted to get in because of our Bible study that meets.
(23:38):
You know, I said I wanted to get some comments
from you about what you thought about that book.
S1 (23:43):
Okay, Jane, let me just say you hang on after
we're done talking and Lisa's going to get your name
and address, and we're going to mail you a copy
of a book I wrote called 50 Most Important Bible
Questions because one.
S5 (24:00):
I have.
S6 (24:00):
It. Oh.
S1 (24:01):
Well, you have to read it, too, Jane. You can't
just own it, you know, you got to read it.
Here's why.
S4 (24:07):
So many bookmarks through that book.
S5 (24:09):
I just love that book.
S4 (24:12):
Maybe there's another one to give to some.
S5 (24:14):
Of the leader in.
S4 (24:15):
Our group.
S1 (24:17):
I'm going to answer your question, but there is one
of the questions in that book is Where is God
in the book of Esther? So now here's the first
I've got. Let me try and answer your your question
now if I can. Okay. Yeah. Uh, it is deliberate
(24:37):
that God's name is is left out. It is a
literary strategy. It's not because they forgot that they forgot
to include his name. I mean, there's hints of it
they call a fast. Remember, Esther has people fast for
her for three days and three nights. Uh, they obviously,
throughout the book, they deliberately leave out the name of
(24:59):
God as a literary strategy. But they see God's fingerprints,
his providence, his good work, working out of everything that
was happening for their good to protect the Jewish people.
That's where God is. It is in Providence. The lesson
of the book of Esther for the Jewish people was
(25:19):
even when they forgot God, he didn't forget them. He
took care of them. He protected them. He preserved them.
That was the message there. It's the message for us, too,
that sometimes we neglect the Lord. But he doesn't neglect us.
He's got his eye on us at all times. That's
what providence is, him looking out for us. I hope
(25:40):
that helps. And, uh, go go back and read that
chapter in the book 50 Most Important Bible Questions. I
think you'll like it. We'll be right back with more
of your questions. In fact, the mailbag coming up straight ahead.
(26:05):
And we're back. So glad to be with you on
this Saturday morning. It's time for the Far Eastern Broadcasting
Company mailbag, the Febc mailbag. We're so grateful to Far
Eastern Broadcasting Company for partnering with us and bringing you
the weekly mailbag. It's a terrific organization. They bring the
good news to people all over the globe, through media
(26:26):
and through personal engagement. Check out their podcast. It's called
Until All Have Heard by going to Febc. Now, the
person in charge of the mailbag is Tricia McMillan, producer
of Open Line. Uh, should I call you executive producer?
S7 (26:43):
No, you should not.
S1 (26:45):
Should I call you top notch producer?
S7 (26:48):
No, you can just call me. Producer is fine.
S1 (26:50):
Okay, there we go. Isn't it? Don't you have, like,
a special role as producer?
S7 (26:55):
No, I don't, I don't senior producer. Senior producer is my.
S1 (26:59):
That's it. Yeah, that's that's because you're so much older
than me.
S7 (27:02):
Yes, yes, I'm a senior. No.
S1 (27:07):
No, that's not true. Okay, well, anyway, our senior producer,
Tricia McMillan, is here with the questions that you've sent in.
If you'd like to send a question in, best way
to do that is to go to our website, Open
line radio. Org. Click on the link that says Ask
Michael a question and that's where your question will go.
(27:27):
And it'll come to Tricia's mailbag. And then she'll put
it in this mailbag for us. Uh, hey, I think,
you know, a couple weeks ago I went to Akron,
met a whole bunch of kitchen table partners. But I
had an interesting email this week from someone that I
worked with, um, 40 years ago. Uh, I haven't seen
(27:51):
them in maybe 35 years.
S7 (27:55):
Wow.
S1 (27:55):
Uh, this couple and, uh, and they live out in
the West Coast. They. This is such a cool thing. Uh,
they live on the West Coast. Haven't talked to them.
She somehow she got my phone number, texted me the
wife of this couple, and, uh, she wrote. We listen
every Saturday on the the Moody Radio app.
S7 (28:17):
Wow.
S1 (28:19):
And then she said, and we're kitchen table partners. And
then she had questions for me. Yeah. Not Bible questions
about some contact questions, but I, I was just so
floored by the kindness of that and the, the graciousness
that they showed me in staying friends from a distance
(28:40):
all these years and helping to to be part of
the program by being kitchen table partners. I'm so grateful
for that. Uh, and, and I was thinking about that,
that there may be people out there that have listened
for a long time, whether on a podcast or whether
maybe online or with the Moody Radio app or just
(29:00):
on the radio. What an idea on the radio. And
you've listened for a long time and thought, yeah, I
want to help keep this program going. Uh, and the
best way to do that is by becoming a kitchen
table partner. We so appreciate when you do that. By
giving monthly keeps us on the air weekly and the
the real. We're so grateful for it. We produce a
Bible study moment. It's an audio Bible study that you
(29:22):
click on. It's produced exclusively for our kitchen table partners.
If you're interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, all
you have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go to
open Line radio.org. And again, I'm so grateful for every
one of you for listening, for being a kitchen. For
those of you who are kitchen table partners, and also
(29:43):
for my old friends that they're not old, but they
are friends for a long time and I'm really grateful
for them doing this.
S7 (29:51):
Yeah, that's very cool.
S1 (29:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Out of the blue. Got that text message.
That was a surprise. So, anyway, uh, well, let's let's
talk about some of these questions.
S7 (30:00):
All right. Our first question is from Robert in Ohio,
who listens to in Genesis four after King kills his
brother Abel, God said the ground wouldn't yield its strength,
and Cain would be a wanderer and a vagrant on
the earth. I assumed that, uh, it would follow then,
that Cain would wander and live a lonely life. But
the Bible says that Cain had a son with his wife.
(30:22):
Built a city which doesn't sound like a wanderer. Can
you tell us more about this?
S1 (30:28):
Yeah. There's kind of a dispute among Bible scholars. If
you read commentaries on Genesis about whether or not Cain
repented of his sin. Uh, I guess one of my
favorite scholars seemed to think that he did. I am
not convinced. And that's the reason why. Now, if you
look at the early chapters of the Book of Genesis,
(30:50):
it seems that every time someone is in rebellion against God,
they move eastward. Now, that's that's kind of interesting. Uh,
for example, after Adam and Eve sin, they're cast out
of the garden for their rebellion. And where is the cherub?
The cherub is put at the eastern gate of the
(31:11):
garden to guard them from returning. turning, which means that
they went eastward in their rebellion. And if you look
at Genesis chapter 11, when the the people of the
earth are told to scatter. Uh, they don't do it.
They rebel against God. Instead, they moved eastward. Uh, in
(31:35):
my version here says from the east. But it'd be
better to translate it and move to the east, uh,
in Genesis 11 two. And they set up the Tower
of Babel. Uh, and then when Abram separates from lot,
what does he do? He moves eastward. A lot does
to rebel. Uh, and and he goes to Sodom. Not
(31:59):
a good place to go. Uh, and that's sort of
an interesting thing. He looks uh, lot looked out verse
chapter 13, verse ten, and saw that the entire Jordan
Valley as far as Zoar was well watered, right. And
so he goes eastward. It says in verse 11, then
lot journeyed eastward, and they separated from each other. So
(32:22):
here's a little marker in the text. It seems like
whenever someone moves eastward, they are in rebellion. And here
in Genesis chapter four, when God tells Cain that that
he's supposed to be a restless wanderer on the earth,
and then he says, if I do that, they'll kill me.
(32:46):
God gives them the mark of Cain to protect him.
And then it says in verse 16, Then Cain went
out from the Lord's presence and lived in the land
of nod, east of Eden. So where did he go?
He went.
S7 (32:58):
Eastward.
S1 (32:59):
Yeah. And then not only that, when he's supposed to
be a wanderer, what does he do? He builds a city.
Then Cain became the builder of a city. And he
named the city Enoch after his son. So when you
build a city, that means you're settling down, not wandering.
And so he was in rebellion against God to the
very end. He never really did repent. I think that
(33:21):
that's a very good observation. And the text tells us
that when he went east, that that was a sign
of rebellion, not that always going east, but that's a
kind of a literary marker here in the early chapters
of Genesis.
S7 (33:34):
Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that.
S1 (33:36):
I mean, if I moved to New York, it wouldn't mean.
S8 (33:38):
That I was in sin.
S1 (33:40):
Right? Because that's east of where I live. But that's
just a literary marker. Okay.
S7 (33:45):
Something we can look for as we're reading. One encouraging
thing I did find, which has nothing to do with
Robert's question, but that his son is Enoch, who walked
with God and then was no more like that. That
even if your parent is rebellious against God, it does
not mean that that entire line that you cannot have
(34:08):
a repentant heart and follow God. And it was just
just those little things that I know that Genesis includes
those little markers like you're talking about, but that we
can I find encouragement in that, that, that even if
your family is broken and rebellious, you don't have to
be in God can save you.
S1 (34:27):
The pattern of sin can be broken. Yeah. And then
the other thing that I think is encouraging in this passage,
if there if we can find encouragement, is that God
shows him grace in the midst of judgment. He says,
you're going to wander the earth. He says, everyone will
kill me. Gives them the mark of Cain. That was
God's mercy and grace right there in the midst of
(34:47):
a passage about judgment. So it just shows that God's
mercy is always operating, even sometimes when we're rebelling against him.
S7 (34:57):
Mhm. Thank you. And thank you, Robert, for that question.
That kind of led us to that also. Um, our
next question is from Kim on Facebook who says, I'm
so very grateful for the program. You. Your expertise and
your team. What is the most.
S8 (35:12):
Like the team especially?
S7 (35:14):
What is the most accurate translation from the original writing
of Jeremiah 17, verse nine. And she does not give
any explanation as to why, but I know that you
you can just translate this on the spot from the Hebrew.
And so tell us what Jeremiah 17 nine says.
S1 (35:34):
Okay, I pulled up the Hebrew text. It says the
heart is more crooked than all else, which really has
to do with, you know, when we even use the
word that way. Oh, that guy's crooked. That means dishonest. Deceitful, right?
So the heart is more crooked than all else. In fact,
the word crooked is used of, uh, kinds of sin. Uh,
(35:59):
you know, a dishonest. And so the heart is more
crooked than anything else. And it is, you know, the
new American standard, the most literal translation says it's desperately
wicked or desperately sick. But I think it just means incurable.
That's what the word that's used there means. Uh, it's
(36:23):
so it's the heart is more crooked than anything else.
And it is crooked. Who can know it or who can?
And the word know has to do with understanding. So
that's what it means. I think probably the person's wondering
if the word deceitful means crooked. It does, but it's
a metaphor for deceitfulness.
S8 (36:42):
Okay. So.
S7 (36:43):
All right.
S1 (36:44):
Happy to do it. I love getting to, uh, do
the translation from.
S8 (36:48):
Time to time.
S7 (36:50):
And I think, I think we do need the play
by play, though, because you'll just go silent for a
second and we don't know what's happening.
S1 (36:56):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What is he doing? Well, he's
pulling out his Hebrew Bible and taking a look at it.
That's what he's doing, right? So. Well, we're going to
be right back. That was Tricia McMillan. I'm Michael Melnick.
You're listening to Open Line. More with your questions coming.
More of your questions coming up straight ahead, right here
on Open Line. And we're back. So good to be
(37:30):
with you this Saturday morning talking about the Bible, God
and the spiritual life. All your questions, uh, and, uh,
before we. Before we get on to your calls, I
wanted to mention a current the resource that Chosen People
Ministries is offering because Israel is in a war right now.
(37:53):
Multi-front War. The war with Iran, obviously, that started last week,
but also continued to fight in Gaza Uh, to take
out Hamas. It's. It's a terrible time. I've been talking
to my Israeli friends, and they are just stressed to
no end. But what does the future hold? Chosen people Ministries,
(38:18):
one of our ministry partners, is offering a special book
called Israel's Glorious Future. It details God's faithfulness to his
covenant and his promises that he made to Israel the
past and the present and the future. All God will
be faithful to his people, and Israel's future is certain
and glorious. If you'd like a free copy of Israel's
(38:40):
Glorious future, just go to our website openline. radio.org. That's
our website. Scroll down until you see the link that
says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that
and then you'll be taken to a page where you
can sign up for your very own copy of Israel's
Glorious Future. And. That. Let's start. Uh. Omar with, uh,
(39:07):
Ethan in Libertyville, Illinois, listening on W-m-b-d. Uh, welcome to
Open Line. Ethan. How can I help you?
S9 (39:17):
Yeah. Hi. This is, uh, it's Doctor Rydell. Is that right?
S1 (39:21):
It's Michael. It's fine. Michael.
S8 (39:23):
Okay.
S9 (39:24):
Yeah, yeah. Hi, Michael. Um, so I've got a question
about the, you know, the same thing with the Ted
Cruz and Tucker Carlson interview that everybody had seen. And I'm.
S10 (39:35):
By the way, I want.
S1 (39:37):
To say Tucker Carlson really, uh, has hosted anti-Semites on
his program and not challenged them. He has taken a
terrible attitude about Jewish people. So I think he's has
colored his perspective. Uh, not as a journalist, but, uh,
he's really taken some, uh, attacks. He's attacked Jewish other
(40:01):
Jewish people in media. Uh, it's it's shameful, I think.
S9 (40:08):
Right. Well, this.
S10 (40:10):
He hosted a Holocaust.
S1 (40:11):
Denier of all things. Go ahead.
S10 (40:13):
What's your question?
S9 (40:14):
I did not know that. Yeah. So I'm a young
Christian and, you know, in their early 20s, and I
hear this topic constantly about Zionism. And as Christians, are
we called to have this undying support for modern Israel
or is modern Israel the, the, the new church, the
body of believers on earth?
S10 (40:36):
And I obviously.
S9 (40:37):
Many passages used to support both and it's it's just
hard to navigate that.
S10 (40:42):
Yeah.
S1 (40:42):
I can't answer that whole big question right here.
S8 (40:46):
Yeah.
S1 (40:46):
In in just 2 or 3 minutes. Uh, I do
want to point out to you that in Romans 1128.
S8 (40:55):
Yeah.
S1 (40:56):
Uh, it's a very and the reason I point this
out to you is that a friend of mine said
that they wanted to go ahead and believe that God
had replaced the people of Israel with the church, with a,
quote unquote, new Israel or spiritual Israel. And Romans nine
(41:18):
through 11 kept them from doing that. They couldn't believe it.
It says this about unbelieving Israel in Romans 1128 regarding
the gospel. They are enemies. Now that means they are
opposed to the gospel, not enemies of God. They are
enemies for your advantage, meaning they are opposed to the gospel.
(41:40):
And this is this was good because now the gospel
went out to the Gentiles. That's what he talks about
in verse 11 of the same chapter. But then it says,
but regarding election, which is just a big word for
chosenness regarding being chosen.
S10 (41:54):
Right?
S1 (41:54):
Okay. This is talking about Jewish people. They don't. They're
opposed to the gospel. But regarding Chosenness, they are loved
because of the patriarchs. God gave the Abrahamic Covenant to Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob, and because of that, God loves them. Since
God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable. So, uh, you
(42:16):
go back to chapter nine and there it talks about
the gifts that God has given the Israelites. It says
they are Israelites. To them there's nine, four belong the adoption,
the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the
temple service, and the promises which include the promise of
(42:36):
the land. The ancestors are there, so the patriarchs are theirs,
and from them by physical descent came the Messiah. So, um,
that I think we can't take the promise away from
Israel based on what the Apostle Paul says. Now, the
second thing I want to mention is people misunderstand Zionism.
S10 (42:56):
Uh.
S1 (42:57):
It has been, uh, there's been a propaganda war out
there to somehow dirty the word Zionism. Uh, and I
think this is really a tragedy because Zionism, you know,
you can go back to its roots. Uh, Theodor Herzl,
who developed Zionism at the first Zionist Congress. All it
(43:22):
is is the belief that Jewish people should have self-determination
in their ancient homeland. Just, uh, just the same as, uh,
French patriotism or, uh, English patriotism, uh, thinking that they
(43:46):
should have, you know, we think the English should have
self-determination in England. The Brits should have self-determination in Great Britain. Uh,
the same thing for the Jewish people, like all peoples
of the earth, to be allowed to have self-determination in
their ancient homeland. That's what Zionism is and it has
been turned into something dirty. I recommend a couple of books.
(44:09):
There's a book by Gerald McDermott. Simpler form of it
is called Israel Matters. He's a, I think, a Presbyterian
or an Anglican pastor, a professor who wrote it up
and it's called Israel Matters, and it's a really good
little book. And then there's also a book that he
(44:32):
edited that's a little bit more technical, called The New
Christian Zionism by McDermott. And I recommend both those books
to you because it's not written from the perspective people
dismiss me. Oh, you're Jewish, Michael, so that's why you
say what you do. But McDermott's I can't remember if
he's Anglican or Presbyterian, but he's one of those, uh,
(44:55):
and he certainly is not a dispensationalist like people want
to dismiss it. Uh, he's just someone that that's quite biblical. Um,
in terms of understanding Romans nine through 11, he does
a really good job explaining it. Uh, it's the new
Christian Zionism, but don't I? I am saddened to see
(45:17):
the way people have made Zionism a dirty word. And
they say things like, it's an ethno. Israel is an
ethno nationalist state, meaning an ethnic national state. Well, what
is France? What's Saudi Arabia?
S10 (45:31):
Yeah.
S1 (45:32):
They it's it doesn't mean that there are minorities in
Israel with full rights and full citizens. The freest Arabs
in the world are the Israeli Arabs. They have.
S9 (45:44):
Yeah.
S1 (45:44):
All the freedoms of a democracy. Uh, and and it's
a shame to me that this word has been made
into some sort of dirty word. It shouldn't be. Even
people who believe who are actually Zionists believe in a
a homeland for the Jewish people. So I'm a Zionist
because it's been so defamed. It's unfortunate. Anyway, thanks so
(46:06):
much for your call, Ethan. I really appreciate it. Thanks
for listening, everyone. That's the first hour. Keep listening. There's
a second hour of Open Line on most of these stations,
so you should check it out. Uh, if you if
your station doesn't carry it, you can always listen on
the Moody Radio app or get the podcast. Or listen online.
Go to our web page, Open Line radio.org. During the break,
(46:26):
check out all the things there. Past programs, the question page, uh,
where to get our current resource. How to become a
kitchen table partner. It's all at the website. Our Bible
study across America will continue in the second hour, so
stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Zelnick
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. Be right.
S8 (46:48):
Back.
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