June 14, 2025 • 46 mins
Dr. Michael Rydelnik talks with Avner Boskey from Israel this week's recent events between Israel and Iran. Then we study God's Word together and answer your Bible questions on Open Line.
Learn more about resources mentioned:
Chosen People Ministries free gift
FEBC podcast
Moody Bible Commentary
June thank you gift:
Ultimate Bible Dictionary
Open Line is listener-supported. To support the program, click here.
Become a Kitchen Table Partner: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/openline/partners
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:09):
We've been riveted to our TV sets, watching the news,
watching reports of Israel's strike against Iran and Iran's ballistic
missile attacks against Israel. How should we think about this biblically,
and how should we pray? Stay with me as I
speak with a friend from Israel, Israel, about all this. Hello, friends.
(00:32):
Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study Across America.
My name is Michael Wright. I'm the academic dean and
professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
I'm so grateful to be joining you around the radio
kitchen table. We're sitting around talking about your questions about
the Bible, God, and the spiritual life. If you have
(00:53):
a question and you'd like to call the phone number
here 5483675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675. You
can write it down and uh, (877) 548-3675. You can also
(01:15):
go to open Line radio.org and click on the link
that says Ask Michael a question, and your questions will
be written down and put into the mailbag for future, uh,
segment on the Febc mailbag to Hera and Lisa are
producing today. Tricia is away for the day and hoping
(01:36):
she has a great time. Uh, Omar Mendoza is our
producer or our engineer today. Uh, and I have a
special guest again, the phone number (877) 548-3675. Go get yourself
a cup of coffee and open your Bible. We're going
to listen to about listen to Israel, the stories about
(01:58):
what's going on in Israel. But also we're going to
talk about this biblically. So you need to have your
Bible ready. Uh, now I want to introduce my friend. He's, uh,
an expert on all things Israel. He lives in Israel.
We've been friends for over 50 years. Uh, one of
(02:20):
my dearest friends. We went to Moody together for a while.
We went to Dallas Theological Seminary. Uh, and his name
is Avner. Uh, Avner has lived in the land of
Israel for about 40 years. I believe I'm going to
get that straight. And, uh, he is a music ministry
there and a worship ministry and, uh, a teaching ministry
(02:43):
in Israel. Uh, his, uh, his kids have at least
two of them have come to Moody Bible Institute, for
which we're really grateful, uh, and graduated from Moody Bible Institute.
He is married to the lovely Rachel, who is one
of my favorite people. Dearest hearts in the whole world
(03:03):
are grateful for you being with me. Avner, thank you
for joining me right now.
S2 (03:08):
What a joy. Michael, always a joy to be with you.
S1 (03:12):
Yeah. I appreciate you so much. You know, I, I
don't know quite how to describe you. You do everything.
You teach, you sing, you write music, you, uh, you're
even a tour guide if necessary. So thank you so much, Avner.
Thank you for joining me.
S2 (03:27):
I do do juggling and playing the piano at the
same time, but not successfully.
S1 (03:32):
Yeah, I know you try that. That's great. Well, thank you, Avner, for, uh, this.
You know, I have been, uh, become sort of, like,
frenetic in watching TV news, uh, scrolling on, going on
to my phone and scrolling constantly for The Jerusalem Post
and the Times of Israel. Uh, I'm watching my news
(03:55):
feeds constantly because of the strike against Iran. And then,
of course, the ballistic missile retaliation by Iran. So people
are wondering why in the world now, why did Israel
do this now? Uh, just a couple nights ago and
(04:17):
start this, uh, strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities. Tell
me about.
S2 (04:23):
That. Mike, you and I once had a professor who
we called Prof. It was Howard Hendricks. Sure. And he.
He always used to say a text without a context
is a pretext. He was quoting, I think, probably from
David Cooper. Um, but the point I'm raising that is
because a lot of people don't remember what's going on historically.
(04:46):
They might know the issue of the Prince of Persia
from the Book of Daniel. And certainly there's a spiritual
dynamic that one could trace and work on. But basically, um,
the original perspective that Muhammad had back in the six
hundreds was, uh, to conquer the world, uh, for what
(05:08):
he believed was a revelation from God. It wasn't it
was from a God who didn't have the biblical name,
but that meant to take over the world and to
make everyone believers, whether they like it or not. And
if not, then to become second class citizens. So even
though in America most people don't believe that or live
(05:31):
with that awareness, in the Middle East it's very strong.
And Iran specifically is the Shiite stream. It's about 20%
of Islam, and they're ruled by people who are actually
geopolitically trying to make something called the Shiite Crescent that
would go from Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen. Of course, Syria has
(05:55):
gone through some changes now, but their goal is basically
to tie down the Middle East. And their second goal
is to destroy Israel. And they're very, very clear about it.
Most Americans might not remember that Iran was involved in
things like the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut,
(06:16):
where 63 people were murdered, or the bombing of the
marine barracks where 241 were murdered in Beirut, or the
Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. All these things were done
by Iranian terrorism. So that same jihadi, uh, evil uh,
is directed very, very clearly at Israel, where the leaders
(06:40):
are saying, hey, we're going to eliminate you. You cannot
win this conflict. We will destroy you. So we've been
dealing with this since the mid 80s, since the mid 80s,
and it's gotten worse and worse. And Israel's always been
telling the world, hey, this is a new Hitler. And
he's going to start with us, but he's not going
(07:00):
to end with us. He's going to end with America.
But a lot of people are not tuned into that
and forget about that. So to give you two very,
very short examples here, uh, back in January 2020, America
took out the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, Qassem Soleimani,
(07:24):
who was involved in his biggest master terrorist in the world, in, um, December,
just after the October 7th, um, attack on Gaza, the famous, uh,
infamous Hamas attack, the same Islamic Revolutionary Guard said that
(07:44):
we're attacking Israel with this huge, uh, uh, ballistic missile
attacks in revenge for America killing Qassem Soleimani. Now, Israel's
not upset about the fact that America killed Soleimani. We
were very happy about that. He was an enemy. And
(08:06):
Psalm 139 talks about what God feels about the enemies
of Israel. But here we are with the same enemy.
America and Israel. And the enemy doesn't understand the Bible,
doesn't understand Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
(08:27):
Iran is mentioned, at least in the second passage, as
having a factor. So what's happened basically is they are
trying to destroy us and have done so for years.
They've sent all the money to Hamas. They've sent money
to Hezbollah in Lebanon. They've sent money to the Houthis,
(08:48):
who are, uh, rocketing American ships. They sent money to Iraq,
which has been attacking US bases. So this is a
big problem. And Israel basically got got to the point
where we said we have to deal with this because
they were close to completing a primitive nuclear device and
had about eight more in the pipeline.
S1 (09:09):
You know, uh, a lot of people think that Israel
started this assault on Iran, uh, this strike. However, I
believe that the violent assault actually began on October 7th
when a proxy of Iran attacked Israel and committed the
worst atrocities since the Holocaust. That was the attack by Hamas.
(09:32):
And then immediately afterwards, Hezbollah, the northern uh, from Lebanon,
that proxy of Iran, began to fire rockets and missiles
into Israel. And then, of course, the Houthis are involved.
They're firing missiles into Israel. All these things are happening.
And there was a seven front war that began. But
(09:55):
only one of those fronts is Iran. But this began
more than two years ago. This began or almost two
years ago, uh, in October of 23. That's when it began.
When the most recent assault. I agree with you about
the broader context, but this recent assault was begun when
(10:18):
Iran began the strike. And now, with Iran so close
to getting nuclear weapons, I don't think Israel could have
helped by not striking that it would have been no
good not to strike the the head of the snake,
so to speak, that wants to see the destruction of Israel. Now,
you and I, we both are linked to the Holocaust.
(10:39):
I know both my parents survived and I lost half
brothers and a sister. Mr.. Uh uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh, did you, uh, have family?
S2 (10:51):
Yeah, from my Polish family. 92 of 95, uh, were, uh,
murdered in the camps.
S1 (10:59):
Yeah. See, this is why I think people don't realize
that now Israel has a solemn duty to protect the
Jewish people, and they cannot abide by Iran getting a
nuclear weapon and then committing a second Holocaust. So it
is Israel's government's responsibility to protect the nation of Israel,
(11:20):
the Jewish state, from this kind of genocidal attack that
that Iran is planning. I think that's so important that
we recognize this. Anyway, uh, Avner, can you stay with me?
Another segment?
S2 (11:34):
Sure.
S1 (11:35):
Okay. Uh, we're going to be right back, folks. We're
going to take a break here. And, uh, when we
come back, we're going to talk about some ways to
think biblically about this continuing war between Iran and Israel,
and also how we can pray. What should we be
praying about this? My guest is Avner Boesky. I'm Michael Redlick.
(11:57):
Stay with me. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
(12:19):
Open Line. I'm Michael Rey. Dominik. Joining me for this
first half hour of the program is my friend Avner
Boesky from Israel. Avner is an expert on all things
Israel and scripture and uh, also, uh, what God is,
how God is moving in the land of Israel. So, uh, Avner,
(12:41):
thank you for for being with us at short notice.
I really appreciate it. We're talking about what's going on
with Iran. I want to know how has Israel responded?
How are the people of Israel responding to the retaliation
with the ballistic missiles that are landing around Israel? Tell
me about that.
S2 (12:58):
Yes. Sometimes people call me up and they say, is
it safe to come to Israel? I say, I don't know,
I just live here. Uh, one of the things that
happens here is that we've been going through wars. We've
been birthed in war since 1948. And so every Israeli
goes into the army for 2 to 3 years, depending
if they're a man or a woman. So we've seen this, uh,
(13:21):
we haven't seen missiles landing on civilians. The first time
that happened, I was in the Israeli army, and I
was in 91 from Saddam Hussein, the desert storms. But
right now we have, uh, you know, people with the
2000 missiles in their inventory shooting at us. And, uh,
(13:44):
we found that if we go into shelters in our house,
every house has a shelter. If you go into the
shelter 99 times out of 100, you're going to be fine.
2 or 3 people were killed. Murdered yesterday by an
Iranian missile. And they weren't in a shelter in their
in their safe room, I guess you would call it. Uh, so, yeah,
(14:05):
but Israelis really feel that, uh, we are, um, we
can deal with it, but we know all of us, uh,
a great sobriety because we know that, uh, these, uh,
£1,000 bombs can really do a lot of damage when
they hit. And, uh, Israel right now, of course, is, uh,
(14:27):
controlling the skies over Iran. And that's an amazing thing.
100 drones were shot at us just a day ago.
And we, with some American help, shut down nearly all
of the 100 drones, something unheard of in military history.
But we're talking about the largest ballistic missile attacks that
(14:51):
Israel is facing in the world in the history of
the world. Happened yesterday. And, uh, so, yeah, but there's
a great sobriety.
S1 (15:01):
So people are wondering, uh, I know believers are saying,
is this Armageddon? Is this the end of the world?
Is this the last battle? Where does this fit prophetically,
do you think?
S2 (15:12):
Well, again, if we're looking at Armageddon, you know, we're looking, uh,
not just to, let's say Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
Persia is mentioned, uh, in verse five. So Persia is
going to be around, Iran is going to be around
for a while. They're not out of the picture. Uh,
but the principle of Psalm 83, the people who make
(15:34):
shrewd plans against your people and say, let's wipe them
out as a nation, That's what we're dealing with. Armageddon
talks about all the nations of the world. And so
we're not dealing with that. We're dealing with one nation
primarily at this point with 5 or 6 proxies.
S1 (15:51):
You know, one of the things I say, people ask
me all the time, are we in the last battle?
And I point out the very same thing. But I
do think that what we're seeing as more and more
nations turn against Israel, even Western nations that were supposed
to be supportive. Correct? Yes. I think that we're seeing
(16:14):
it getting closer and closer to those days when all
nations will gather against Jerusalem. Thank God it's not happening
just yet. But we do see they're gathering in the U.N.,
so to speak.
S2 (16:26):
Uh, yeah. And there's.
S1 (16:28):
Two.
S2 (16:28):
Things, I think if you go to Psalm 83, verse
six through eight, you'll see that just about all of
those nations are right now involved in attacking Israel. That's very,
very close to what Psalm 83 is talking about. But
the other side to us is, uh oh. Now, what
(16:49):
was I about to say on that?
S1 (16:50):
It's okay. Here's here's the question. I do think that
the the nations will gather against Israel. Uh, I tell you,
today I got a very encouraging, uh, uh, picture and
text message from a professor at Moody who happens to
be in Seoul, Korea. And what he sent me was
(17:11):
a a sign. I don't even know where the sign was.
A big banner was hanging up, and, uh, it says, uh,
thank you, Israel, for fighting for the free world. And
then Korea stands with Israel and had an Israeli flag
that was encouraging. I think it was at a church
that they did this. So, uh, I think that it's
(17:32):
important I think this is what a believer's response should be,
in my opinion. What would you encourage believers to think
about these kinds of events today?
S2 (17:43):
I would say compare it to what happened in Germany
in the 30s. We're dealing with people who wanted to
destroy not only Israel, but the whole world. The chant
that goes on in Iran all the time is death
to Israel, death to America. And then the Houthis add
on a third line and cursed be Israel. Which brings
(18:03):
us right into Genesis 12 three. That those who curse
Israel will themselves be cursed by the God of Israel.
So I think it's real important to be praying. It's
important for us if you pray. So if the listeners
are listening, do pray for Israel's safety and protection. And
that the Lord would give us, like he gave to
(18:24):
King David, victory on the battle, and that he would
bring us to know the God of Israel personally. Mhm.
S1 (18:32):
Yeah, I think that's true. I think we need to
be praying. You know, when we say pray for the
peace of Jerusalem, I pray for the peace of Jerusalem
all the time. But I at this point, as there's
war with Hamas, uh, continuing and this war now with, uh, Iran,
I pray for the victory of Israel. And that's how
there will be peace. Now, it's not the final peace
(18:54):
that will come when the Prince of Peace returns, but
at least temporal peace, uh, and that peace will come
through the surrender of Hamas and, uh, the the final
defeat of this nuclear program at, uh, in Iran. I
think that that's crucial to understand. Uh, so we're praying
(19:14):
for peace in that way. Uh, any other areas specifically
that we should be praying for Israel?
S2 (19:22):
David's son Solomon said there's a time for peace and
a time for war.
S3 (19:28):
And of course.
S2 (19:29):
The birds. The birds sang that in their famous, uh,
Pete Seeger song. turn, turn, turn. Yeah. I think it's so, so,
so important, uh, to really be praying for the salvation
and the protection of Israel. Uh, to me, that's just
about the most important thing. One good thing and might
be encouraging to people is that because of pressure, C.S.
(19:52):
Lewis used to say, God whispers in our pleasures, and
he shouts in our pains. It's his megaphone to raise
a deaf world. There is greater openness spiritually in Israel
today across the board. People are seeking, you know, they
say there are no atheists in foxholes. That's happening in Israel. Uh,
(20:15):
it's not overwhelming. And we're not seeing, you know, a
Billy Graham meeting here, uh, in terms of amounts of people.
But there is a much greater openness. And so that's
worth praying for, that people will find the God who
they've been looking for and his Messiah.
S1 (20:31):
Yeah. You know, yesterday, uh, a mom of a of
a there's a Jewish believer who has sent several of
her children to Moody. One is coming this fall. In fact,
several are graduates already, three, I believe. Uh, she sent
me a link to a CBN report. News report, uh,
(20:53):
where they were there was a video that they showed
and then interviewed someone of a group of Jewish believers
gathering in a shelter during the ballistic missile assault. And
they were engaged in singing and worship. And I saw
three moody grads in that video. Um, and they they
(21:17):
were there in Israel and, and worshiping and I, I
pray that these young people that they will continue to
speak up with other Israelis, uh, that the Israelis who are,
I think it's fair to say, pretty stressed with this war.
We'll find peace and and rest and emotional well-being through
(21:43):
the Prince of Peace by coming to know Yeshua Jesus. Yeah.
S3 (21:46):
I think I think.
S2 (21:47):
One really good point is the issue of the heart,
that it's not just a chess game, of course, with
various pieces, Israeli pieces, Iranian pieces, but God's heart in
Isaiah 62 and 63 is bound to the Jewish people.
And when they suffer, it says he suffers. And so
that's so important. We're touching something very precious and deep
(22:10):
to the heart of God. And as we pray and intercede,
it's not only for prophetic fulfillment, but it's for something
which is really touching the love and the passion and
the heart of God.
S1 (22:22):
Yeah. You know, that's a verse that I find very
helpful when people ask me and they I'm sure they
ask you this where was God during the Holocaust? I
always tell them, uh, in Isaiah 63 nine, in all
their suffering and all their afflictions, he was afflicted. And
I think that when Israel suffers, God suffers with Israel. Um, and, uh,
(22:45):
I think that sometimes we lose sight of that, that
what breaks the heart of God. Uh, I don't know
if you know this story, but, uh, you know, the
person I'm going to tell you about, uh, your daughter
in law, uh.
S3 (22:59):
When she was not your daughter.
S1 (23:00):
In.
S3 (23:00):
Law.
S1 (23:01):
She, uh, she said to me she was going to
study this summer. Uh, it was a summer a number
of years ago. Uh, and she said, I'm going to
study on my summer break. She was a student at Moody,
and I'm going to see what breaks the heart of God. And, uh,
so she came back, and she was not a Jewish
studies major. She came and she said, I discovered what
(23:23):
breaks the heart of God. And that's the ministry I'm
going to be in. And I said, what's that? And
she said, I saw the two places where Yeshua wept
in the Gospels, and both places it was over the
unbelief of Israel.
S3 (23:36):
In.
S1 (23:38):
Luke 19 and in John 11. And the unbelief of
Israel is what breaks God's heart and breaks my heart.
And and lo and behold, she listened to that leading
of the Holy Spirit through his word and and ended
up wisely marrying your son.
S3 (23:57):
And that's how.
S2 (23:58):
She's listening to this broadcast right now.
S1 (24:01):
Yeah. Now that to me, uh, that understanding that the
Lord is with Israel and all their afflictions and, uh,
that he is, uh, he, he cares deeply and weeps
at the unbelief of Israel. Avner. Uh, what last things
can you tell me, uh, tell our audience. How would
you like them to? What kind of action? What kind
(24:23):
of steps can they take? At this point.
S2 (24:27):
I would say two things, even three things. One is, uh,
we're probably, uh, in for, uh, some very heavy ballistic
missile attacks, uh, usually at night. They only come out
at night. They can refuel better at night. So I
think it's very worth praying for Israel's safety and for
(24:49):
the Israeli and American soldiers, airmen who are interdicting these things.
The third missiles. The arrow missiles. That's the first point.
The second point is it says in Romans 116, don't
leave the gospel out. It's supposed to go to the
Jewish people. It's our Messiah. Bring it with priority first
(25:09):
to the Jew. And third of all, uh, one of
the signs you mentioned, uh, Michael, is anti-Semitism increasing, and
it doesn't only increase on the media, it increases next door.
And so when you run into that, it's time to
speak up and to stand for your Jewish neighbors. And
when you know Jewish people, let them know that you're
(25:32):
not buying into that.
S3 (25:34):
Hey.
S1 (25:36):
Thank you so much for joining me on Open Line. Uh, it's, uh,
very insightful, very helpful. We'll be praying for you. Uh, friends,
we're going to be right back with the Febc mailbag,
so stay with us. This is open line with Michael Radonich.
And that was my guest, Avner Boesky. And we're back.
(26:07):
So glad to be with you this Saturday morning. And
I'm really grateful to the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company for
partnering with Open Line to bring the weekly Febc mailbag.
Febc far Eastern Broadcasting Company is a terrific organization, and
they bring the gospel to people all over the world
(26:27):
through media and through personal engagement. I think that's so crucial. Yeah,
to to see what they're doing. Check out the Febc podcast.
It's called Until All Have Heard. You'll find it at
their website, febc. Uh, check that out. Well, joining me
right now with the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. She's
(26:50):
the queen of the questions. The person that puts all
those questions into the mailbag. And you know, the way
these questions come, Tricia, is, I mean, people send them
all different ways, but I want to encourage people. The
best way to send a question is to go to
our website, openline radio.org. Click on that, and when you
(27:12):
get there, there's a link that says Ask Michael a question.
That's a great way to get your question in. So
yes it is. And the the reason is, you know,
it's so hard when people are sending it to Facebook
or to different kinds of things. Instagram. The the result
is that that you're trying to drag it from all
(27:33):
over the place.
S4 (27:34):
Which I do. So if you do send it there,
I do see those, just not maybe not quite as
instantly as I do because the other ones go straight
to my email inbox. Yeah. And so it's just easier.
But I do find the others if you have put
one there. Yeah I will.
S1 (27:50):
It may take a time. And that's why people write
me and say, I asked this question about a month ago,
but I haven't, you know.
S4 (27:55):
That's right.
S1 (27:55):
So I'm just looking out for you, Tricia. Thank you. Uh, well,
let's go ahead with the question.
S4 (28:01):
All right. Our first question is from Mike in Indiana.
Listens to. Could you please explain the dietary prohibitions found in.
He gives three different references. Exodus 2319, Exodus 3426, and
Deuteronomy 1421. Many thanks for your faithfulness and help in
our biblical growth and understanding. Now, the first two Exodus
(28:23):
verses are both very similar, almost identical, but they say
something to the effect of bring the best of the
firstfruits of your land to the house of the Lord
your God. You must not boil a young goat in
its mother's milk. And then the Deuteronomy 1421 passage includes
the part about do not boil a young goat in
(28:45):
its mother's milk. But before that it says, you are
not to eat any carcass. You may give it to
a temporary resident living within your gates, and he may
eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner.
For you are a holy people belonging to the Lord
your God. You must not boil a young goat in
its mother's milk. So we have two different prohibitions that
(29:06):
don't eat any carcass, but you can give it to
a temporary resident. And don't boil a young goat in
its mother's milk.
S1 (29:13):
Right? Okay, so there's a lot to say about this.
First of all, there's a whole aspect of kashrut or
Jewish kosher law based on this, uh, this law. It's
why Jewish people don't mix milk with meat because they thought,
don't take a baby goat. This is how the rabbis
(29:33):
developed this. Don't take a baby goat and boil it
in its mother's milk. But then you might take, uh,
another goat and baby goat. And it's not its own
mother's milk. You think that's what it is? So it's okay,
but it turns out to be it's mother's milk. You
make a mistake. So they built a fence. No goat? No.
No mother's milk at all. And then they said, well,
(29:54):
you may think you're bringing a calf, not a goat.
Turns out it is a goat, or it is, you know,
and the next thing you know, they're building further and
further out. Uh, no meat, no milk together. And then
even more, even poultry and milk, you know? No. No
chicken and milk at all. And you can't eat them together.
(30:17):
If you eat meat, you have to wait a certain
amount of hours for it to digest before you can
eat a dairy product. Jewish people based on this law
have separate sets of dishes, dairy dishes and meat dishes.
And then of course, at Passover you have Passover dairy
dishes and Passover meat dishes and utensils and things like that.
(30:43):
So many Orthodox Jewish homes have like two ovens, two refrigerators.
S4 (30:50):
They cook them separately.
S1 (30:53):
To keep dairy and meat separately.
S4 (30:56):
Okay. Pots and pans?
S1 (30:58):
Yes.
S4 (30:59):
Okay.
S1 (31:00):
Absolutely.
S4 (31:01):
Okay.
S1 (31:01):
And so, uh, that's a whole set of laws which
is filling out the rabbinic law of building fences around
the law. The idea is you build a fence so
that you can't break the actual law. You build more
laws and laws and laws outside of it. And and
so that's going on. I don't think that's the right
way to interpret this verse. Many people think, I think mistakenly,
(31:25):
that this is a verse that about not boiling a
baby goat in its mother's milk is about, uh, a
Canaanite practice that's pagan, and that, uh, what Moses was
forbidding here was to engage in Canaanite worship practices. The
problem is that the earliest record we have of a
(31:48):
pagan using this kind of baby goat, or baby animal
in its own mother's milk, goes to the seventh century BC.
Moses is writing at 1400 BC, and so it's unlikely
that that was in his mind. I think the best
interpretation of that verse is as part of your worship practice,
(32:10):
you know, firstfruits. People think, okay, I bring my first fruit. Uh,
maybe I would bring the firstborn baby. Uh, also as
a sacrifice. Mhm. And basically what that is saying don't
boil a baby goat and it uses an idiom in
its mother's milk, meaning unweaned still nursing. Don't bring a
(32:35):
baby goat that is unweaned as a sacrifice. And the
reason is to show compassion on both the well. Compassion
primarily on on the mother goat. You don't rip the
baby from her and offer it. And so that to
me is what I think is the best interpretation of that.
(32:56):
And then the, the principle that would abide is to
show compassion and concern for animals, not just treat them
as as nothing or not having concern for them. Uh,
a person cares for the life of his beast. That's
the Proverbs teach. And so that's the principle, I think,
(33:18):
that governs us. As for the animal, there's a based
on the, the, the carcass of an animal. If an
animal dies of its own accord, the law prohibited eating it.
And it's still today in Judaism. You cannot eat an
animal that that died some other way other than through
(33:40):
ritual slaughter. And so that's always been the case. And
the reason was for protection, health of the individual not
to use a carcass. And, uh, there has to be
also concern for the animal with the ritual slaughter done
in the most humane possible way and most humane way possible.
(34:04):
And so. But God does say like. And you. I
think when we were talking about this once, Tricia, you
said so, uh, Israel would not have been allowed to eat. Uh.
What did you say?
S4 (34:16):
A deer? A deer that got hit by a car
on the side of the road.
S1 (34:20):
Yeah, couldn't do that. But if someone else hits a deer,
they get to pack it up and. Yeah. And so
it was against the law for Israelites.
S4 (34:27):
Okay. And even I think within that verse in Deuteronomy 1421,
it says, for you are a holy people belonging to
the Lord your God, that there is this is why,
you know, it's not just a random rule that God
was putting into place, but there was a reason for
this specific law. And even all of the laws that
(34:48):
he was giving them.
S1 (34:49):
All the kosher laws were designed to make Israel distinct
in how they ate. That's where we get the verse
in Leviticus 11. After the kosher laws were given, you
are to be holy, for I am holy. So it's
it was. You're to be distinct. Different because I am separate.
That's it.
S4 (35:09):
And you are to be separate also.
S1 (35:11):
Let's do another one. All right. Let's see if we.
S4 (35:12):
Can get one more question here. Let's try. Um, Lois
in Illinois listens to WNBA. Uh, this summer, we will
be having a family reunion weekend for our large family.
Two of the couples attending are believers in Jesus, but
living together without the benefit of marriage. I read first
Corinthians five nine through 11, and I want to know
(35:34):
how I should handle this situation in light of that
which says, I wrote to you in a letter not
to associate with sexually immoral people. I did not mean
the immoral people of this world, or the greedy and
swindlers or idolaters. Otherwise you would have to leave the world.
But now I am writing you not to associate with
anyone who claims to be a believer, who is sexually
(35:56):
immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard
or a swindler do not even eat with such a person.
S1 (36:05):
Yeah, I think it would be. It's important, I important.
I think I would be slow to answer this on
the radio. I'll give some opinions, but I think mostly
this is a question to talk about with someone personally,
like a pastor, because I would ask more questions, I
would want to know more. But first of all, I
(36:25):
think when Paul gives this limitation, it's believers who are
openly professing their faith in church, and they're now under
church discipline for their behavior. As far as I can tell,
these people that are being spoken of, that are living
together are not in church, and they are not under
(36:47):
church discipline. So that's one thing. Also, when you read
that verse in first Corinthians five, it says, anyone professing
to be a believer, anyone who claims to be a believer.
Now she says, I think they're believers, but are they
claiming it any longer? I don't know, that's a question
I would ask. And also, if all those things were true,
(37:10):
I'm not sure that it applies to family. It may
apply to someone that you go to church with, but
not necessarily a family member that there are. You know,
we have to engage with family in a different way,
for example, than we would with just general people in
the church. And so there are a lot of questions
that I would have. And just on the surface, I
(37:34):
would say that it's okay to go to the wedding
because I'm not sure this verse applies in this circumstance or.
S4 (37:40):
To the family reunion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S1 (37:43):
A wedding or whatever event that they're going to go to.
S4 (37:46):
Okay.
S1 (37:47):
All right. Family reunion.
S4 (37:48):
All right. Okay.
S1 (37:49):
Thank you. Well, listen, thank you for being part of
the team. I think it's one of my favorite aspects
of doing Open Line is doing it together with you
and others. It's such a great benefit and blessing to me.
And I love every member of the team. Everyone that listens.
I appreciate meeting our kitchen table partners. I was in
an event last week with a bunch of people and
(38:09):
they all said that, oh, not all, but many of
them there said, I'm a kitchen table partner. I'm a
kitchen table partner, and I appreciate everyone. That is, people
who give monthly to be part of the team so
we can be on the air weekly. And if you're
interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, I'd appreciate it.
All you'd have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go
(38:34):
to open line radio.com. And you can become a kitchen
table partner there. And as a special blessing and benefit
and a gift that we want to give to those
of you who are kitchen table partners, we prepare a
Bible study moment, Tricia and I, and we send it
out every other week. It's about a ten minute digital
Bible study, audio Bible study that you can hear in
(38:56):
your your email. You click on it in your email
and you get to hear it. And I hope you
enjoy those. Uh, again, if you want to become a
kitchen table partner. Uh, call (888) 644-7122 or go to open
line radio.org. Well, thanks for bringing those questions in, Tricia.
(39:19):
And being part of the team, we're going to be
back next hour with more questions. This is that was
Tricia McMillan. I'm Michael Rudnick, and we'll be back with
more of your questions in just a moment. Stay with us.
(39:49):
Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Rey Dominik, glad
to be with you. A couple of things I need
to mention before we go back to the phones. I
just want to mention real quickly, it's the end of
the fiscal year for Moody Bible Institute and your help
at this time with your generous gift will be go
a long way to making Moodie solvent and strong for
(40:11):
the future. Really appreciate all the generosity, but the main
reason I appreciate gifts is because I get to send
you something. Our current resource is just so terrific. Uh,
it's called the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. When you are reading
the Bible and you see a name or a place
(40:31):
or an event and you think, what's that about? Everyone
should have a Bible study library. And the Ultimate Bible
Dictionary is a real handy little book that you can
look those things up, you can find those items, and
it's what we want to send you as a thank
you for any gift that you send. And we're so
appreciative of your your generosity that we want to give
(40:53):
you this as a thank you. If you'd like to
give a gift for a gift of any size, we'll
send you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. Just call 44. 7122
or go to our website openline. radio.org. And as I
mentioned in the first and second segments of the program today,
(41:13):
if you didn't listen to it, my interview with Avner Boesky,
you can go back and listen to the podcast or
listen on the Moody Radio app, or go online and
listen by going to Openline radio org. There's all sorts
of ways you can catch those first two segments. But
Israel's in a war, a war that the nation didn't want.
And as I see the images of Iranian ballistic missiles
(41:36):
landing in Tel Aviv, it breaks my heart. And I wonder,
what's the future? Well Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners,
is offering a book called Israel's Glorious Future. The book
shows God's faithfulness to Israel as found in the Bible,
and gives a great picture of what the future holds
(41:56):
for Israel, despite its current difficulties. If you'd like a
free copy of Israel's Glorious Future. Just go to Open
Line radio.org. That's our website, Open Line radio.org. Click on
the link that says a free gift from Chosen People Ministries,
and you'll be sent to a page where you can
sign up for your own copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
(42:17):
We're going to talk to Dan in Scottsdale, Arizona, listening
on Wmbi. Well, online. Welcome to Open Line. Dan, how
can I help you today?
S5 (42:26):
Yes. My question is about the Pentateuch, the Torah. Um,
is that the only book that the Jewish people have,
or do they have more of, like the books from
the Old Testament of the Bible?
S1 (42:40):
Yeah, Jewish people have the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament,
we call it, uh, Jewish people call it the Hebrew
Bible or the Tanakh. They take the first part of it,
the Torah, take the T from that. Uh, then prophets
Nevi'im is the Hebrew word. Take the n from that,
and then to Veeam. And that's the writings. And they
(43:02):
say they take those three letters and they make the
word Tanakh, and that's the Hebrew Bible. In addition, they
have the Mishnah and the Gemara, which are that's rabbinic literature. Uh,
they have the Midrash, which are rabbinic commentaries. Uh, they
have many other books, targums which are rabbinic paraphrases of
(43:23):
the Hebrew Bible. So there's a great deal. That's why
the Jewish people are obviously the people of the book. Okay. Dan.
S5 (43:33):
Okay. And they do have the book of Isaiah, too.
S1 (43:37):
Absolutely, absolutely.
S5 (43:39):
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
S3 (43:41):
Great.
S1 (43:42):
Yeah. That's why Dan, uh uh, we I often will
point out messianic prophecy in the Hebrew Bible to my
Jewish family and friends. Uh, it shows them that it
reveals Yeshua Jesus as the Messiah, and I use the
Hebrew Bible to do that. Uh, thanks for your call, Dan.
(44:03):
We're going to talk to Tanya and Joel, two people, uh,
listening in Ohio. Welcome to Open Line, Tanya. How can
I help you today?
S6 (44:12):
So Joel's talking to you.
S1 (44:13):
Okay, great. Okay.
S6 (44:15):
What's our proper understanding of Mordecai and Hadassah? Um, are
they heroes of the faith? Are they functional atheists in
a pagan society that manages to be used by God anyway?
S1 (44:31):
Why would you think that they're atheists?
S6 (44:34):
That's what our pastor is preaching through right now in
the book of Esther.
S1 (44:38):
And that's what he said.
S6 (44:40):
Yes.
S1 (44:42):
Uh, you know what your dear pastor, I think is
misunderstanding the book. Uh, the point of this book. The
point of the book is to teach the providence of God.
Providence is God's care and protection and action on behalf
(45:03):
of those who who love him. Working everything out even
when he's using normal human events. It's the great coincidences
of life. Like Mordecai overhearing about the plot against the king,
or Esther finding favor and all those different ways. So
(45:24):
if they were functional atheists, she would not have called
for a fast. Mordecai would not have called for her
to take a stand for her people. Esther's people. So, uh,
the thing is, it's a literary device to leave God's
name out, that even when the nation of Israel had
forgotten God, and generally speaking, the people in captivity were
(45:47):
assimilating and not really being a tight, tight in their
following of the Lord. Even when that happens, God still
stays with his people when people forget God. God does
not forget them when he's got covenant promises. So that's
the point of the book. But don't make spiritual judgments
about Mordecai and Esther because no, they they were obviously
(46:10):
committed followers of the God of Israel. Well, that's the
first hour, folks. Second hour of Open Line is coming
up on most of these stations. Hope you can listen in. Uh,
if if you can't on your station, you can always
check out Open Line radio.org or or the Moody Radio app.
The Bible study across America will continue in just a moment,
(46:31):
so stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Melnick
is a production of Moody Radio, the ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. We'll be right back. So stay right there.
We've been riveted to our TV sets, watching the news,
watching reports of Israel's strike against Iran and Iran's ballistic
missile attacks against Israel. How should we think about this biblically,
and how should we pray? Stay with me as I
speak with a friend from Israel, Israel, about all this. Hello, friends.
(00:32):
Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study Across America.
My name is Michael Wright. I'm the academic dean and
professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
I'm so grateful to be joining you around the radio
kitchen table. We're sitting around talking about your questions about
the Bible, God, and the spiritual life. If you have
(00:53):
a question and you'd like to call the phone number
here 5483675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675. You
can write it down and uh, (877) 548-3675. You can also
(01:15):
go to open Line radio.org and click on the link
that says Ask Michael a question, and your questions will
be written down and put into the mailbag for future, uh,
segment on the Febc mailbag to Hera and Lisa are
producing today. Tricia is away for the day and hoping
(01:36):
she has a great time. Uh, Omar Mendoza is our
producer or our engineer today. Uh, and I have a
special guest again, the phone number (877) 548-3675. Go get yourself
a cup of coffee and open your Bible. We're going
to listen to about listen to Israel, the stories about
(01:58):
what's going on in Israel. But also we're going to
talk about this biblically. So you need to have your
Bible ready. Uh, now I want to introduce my friend. He's, uh,
an expert on all things Israel. He lives in Israel.
We've been friends for over 50 years. Uh, one of
(02:20):
my dearest friends. We went to Moody together for a while.
We went to Dallas Theological Seminary. Uh, and his name
is Avner. Uh, Avner has lived in the land of
Israel for about 40 years. I believe I'm going to
get that straight. And, uh, he is a music ministry
there and a worship ministry and, uh, a teaching ministry
(02:43):
in Israel. Uh, his, uh, his kids have at least
two of them have come to Moody Bible Institute, for
which we're really grateful, uh, and graduated from Moody Bible Institute.
He is married to the lovely Rachel, who is one
of my favorite people. Dearest hearts in the whole world
(03:03):
are grateful for you being with me. Avner, thank you
for joining me right now.
S2 (03:08):
What a joy. Michael, always a joy to be with you.
S1 (03:12):
Yeah. I appreciate you so much. You know, I, I
don't know quite how to describe you. You do everything.
You teach, you sing, you write music, you, uh, you're
even a tour guide if necessary. So thank you so much, Avner.
Thank you for joining me.
S2 (03:27):
I do do juggling and playing the piano at the
same time, but not successfully.
S1 (03:32):
Yeah, I know you try that. That's great. Well, thank you, Avner, for, uh, this.
You know, I have been, uh, become sort of, like,
frenetic in watching TV news, uh, scrolling on, going on
to my phone and scrolling constantly for The Jerusalem Post
and the Times of Israel. Uh, I'm watching my news
(03:55):
feeds constantly because of the strike against Iran. And then,
of course, the ballistic missile retaliation by Iran. So people
are wondering why in the world now, why did Israel
do this now? Uh, just a couple nights ago and
(04:17):
start this, uh, strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities. Tell
me about.
S2 (04:23):
That. Mike, you and I once had a professor who
we called Prof. It was Howard Hendricks. Sure. And he.
He always used to say a text without a context
is a pretext. He was quoting, I think, probably from
David Cooper. Um, but the point I'm raising that is
because a lot of people don't remember what's going on historically.
(04:46):
They might know the issue of the Prince of Persia
from the Book of Daniel. And certainly there's a spiritual
dynamic that one could trace and work on. But basically, um,
the original perspective that Muhammad had back in the six
hundreds was, uh, to conquer the world, uh, for what
(05:08):
he believed was a revelation from God. It wasn't it
was from a God who didn't have the biblical name,
but that meant to take over the world and to
make everyone believers, whether they like it or not. And
if not, then to become second class citizens. So even
though in America most people don't believe that or live
(05:31):
with that awareness, in the Middle East it's very strong.
And Iran specifically is the Shiite stream. It's about 20%
of Islam, and they're ruled by people who are actually
geopolitically trying to make something called the Shiite Crescent that
would go from Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen. Of course, Syria has
(05:55):
gone through some changes now, but their goal is basically
to tie down the Middle East. And their second goal
is to destroy Israel. And they're very, very clear about it.
Most Americans might not remember that Iran was involved in
things like the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut,
(06:16):
where 63 people were murdered, or the bombing of the
marine barracks where 241 were murdered in Beirut, or the
Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. All these things were done
by Iranian terrorism. So that same jihadi, uh, evil uh,
is directed very, very clearly at Israel, where the leaders
(06:40):
are saying, hey, we're going to eliminate you. You cannot
win this conflict. We will destroy you. So we've been
dealing with this since the mid 80s, since the mid 80s,
and it's gotten worse and worse. And Israel's always been
telling the world, hey, this is a new Hitler. And
he's going to start with us, but he's not going
(07:00):
to end with us. He's going to end with America.
But a lot of people are not tuned into that
and forget about that. So to give you two very,
very short examples here, uh, back in January 2020, America
took out the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, Qassem Soleimani,
(07:24):
who was involved in his biggest master terrorist in the world, in, um, December,
just after the October 7th, um, attack on Gaza, the famous, uh,
infamous Hamas attack, the same Islamic Revolutionary Guard said that
(07:44):
we're attacking Israel with this huge, uh, uh, ballistic missile
attacks in revenge for America killing Qassem Soleimani. Now, Israel's
not upset about the fact that America killed Soleimani. We
were very happy about that. He was an enemy. And
(08:06):
Psalm 139 talks about what God feels about the enemies
of Israel. But here we are with the same enemy.
America and Israel. And the enemy doesn't understand the Bible,
doesn't understand Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
(08:27):
Iran is mentioned, at least in the second passage, as
having a factor. So what's happened basically is they are
trying to destroy us and have done so for years.
They've sent all the money to Hamas. They've sent money
to Hezbollah in Lebanon. They've sent money to the Houthis,
(08:48):
who are, uh, rocketing American ships. They sent money to Iraq,
which has been attacking US bases. So this is a
big problem. And Israel basically got got to the point
where we said we have to deal with this because
they were close to completing a primitive nuclear device and
had about eight more in the pipeline.
S1 (09:09):
You know, uh, a lot of people think that Israel
started this assault on Iran, uh, this strike. However, I
believe that the violent assault actually began on October 7th
when a proxy of Iran attacked Israel and committed the
worst atrocities since the Holocaust. That was the attack by Hamas.
(09:32):
And then immediately afterwards, Hezbollah, the northern uh, from Lebanon,
that proxy of Iran, began to fire rockets and missiles
into Israel. And then, of course, the Houthis are involved.
They're firing missiles into Israel. All these things are happening.
And there was a seven front war that began. But
(09:55):
only one of those fronts is Iran. But this began
more than two years ago. This began or almost two
years ago, uh, in October of 23. That's when it began.
When the most recent assault. I agree with you about
the broader context, but this recent assault was begun when
(10:18):
Iran began the strike. And now, with Iran so close
to getting nuclear weapons, I don't think Israel could have
helped by not striking that it would have been no
good not to strike the the head of the snake,
so to speak, that wants to see the destruction of Israel. Now,
you and I, we both are linked to the Holocaust.
(10:39):
I know both my parents survived and I lost half
brothers and a sister. Mr.. Uh uh uh uh uh
uh uh uh uh, did you, uh, have family?
S2 (10:51):
Yeah, from my Polish family. 92 of 95, uh, were, uh,
murdered in the camps.
S1 (10:59):
Yeah. See, this is why I think people don't realize
that now Israel has a solemn duty to protect the
Jewish people, and they cannot abide by Iran getting a
nuclear weapon and then committing a second Holocaust. So it
is Israel's government's responsibility to protect the nation of Israel,
(11:20):
the Jewish state, from this kind of genocidal attack that
that Iran is planning. I think that's so important that
we recognize this. Anyway, uh, Avner, can you stay with me?
Another segment?
S2 (11:34):
Sure.
S1 (11:35):
Okay. Uh, we're going to be right back, folks. We're
going to take a break here. And, uh, when we
come back, we're going to talk about some ways to
think biblically about this continuing war between Iran and Israel,
and also how we can pray. What should we be
praying about this? My guest is Avner Boesky. I'm Michael Redlick.
(11:57):
Stay with me. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
(12:19):
Open Line. I'm Michael Rey. Dominik. Joining me for this
first half hour of the program is my friend Avner
Boesky from Israel. Avner is an expert on all things
Israel and scripture and uh, also, uh, what God is,
how God is moving in the land of Israel. So, uh, Avner,
(12:41):
thank you for for being with us at short notice.
I really appreciate it. We're talking about what's going on
with Iran. I want to know how has Israel responded?
How are the people of Israel responding to the retaliation
with the ballistic missiles that are landing around Israel? Tell
me about that.
S2 (12:58):
Yes. Sometimes people call me up and they say, is
it safe to come to Israel? I say, I don't know,
I just live here. Uh, one of the things that
happens here is that we've been going through wars. We've
been birthed in war since 1948. And so every Israeli
goes into the army for 2 to 3 years, depending
if they're a man or a woman. So we've seen this, uh,
(13:21):
we haven't seen missiles landing on civilians. The first time
that happened, I was in the Israeli army, and I
was in 91 from Saddam Hussein, the desert storms. But
right now we have, uh, you know, people with the
2000 missiles in their inventory shooting at us. And, uh,
(13:44):
we found that if we go into shelters in our house,
every house has a shelter. If you go into the
shelter 99 times out of 100, you're going to be fine.
2 or 3 people were killed. Murdered yesterday by an
Iranian missile. And they weren't in a shelter in their
in their safe room, I guess you would call it. Uh, so, yeah,
(14:05):
but Israelis really feel that, uh, we are, um, we
can deal with it, but we know all of us, uh,
a great sobriety because we know that, uh, these, uh,
£1,000 bombs can really do a lot of damage when
they hit. And, uh, Israel right now, of course, is, uh,
(14:27):
controlling the skies over Iran. And that's an amazing thing.
100 drones were shot at us just a day ago.
And we, with some American help, shut down nearly all
of the 100 drones, something unheard of in military history.
But we're talking about the largest ballistic missile attacks that
(14:51):
Israel is facing in the world in the history of
the world. Happened yesterday. And, uh, so, yeah, but there's
a great sobriety.
S1 (15:01):
So people are wondering, uh, I know believers are saying,
is this Armageddon? Is this the end of the world?
Is this the last battle? Where does this fit prophetically,
do you think?
S2 (15:12):
Well, again, if we're looking at Armageddon, you know, we're looking, uh,
not just to, let's say Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
Persia is mentioned, uh, in verse five. So Persia is
going to be around, Iran is going to be around
for a while. They're not out of the picture. Uh,
but the principle of Psalm 83, the people who make
(15:34):
shrewd plans against your people and say, let's wipe them
out as a nation, That's what we're dealing with. Armageddon
talks about all the nations of the world. And so
we're not dealing with that. We're dealing with one nation
primarily at this point with 5 or 6 proxies.
S1 (15:51):
You know, one of the things I say, people ask
me all the time, are we in the last battle?
And I point out the very same thing. But I
do think that what we're seeing as more and more
nations turn against Israel, even Western nations that were supposed
to be supportive. Correct? Yes. I think that we're seeing
(16:14):
it getting closer and closer to those days when all
nations will gather against Jerusalem. Thank God it's not happening
just yet. But we do see they're gathering in the U.N.,
so to speak.
S2 (16:26):
Uh, yeah. And there's.
S1 (16:28):
Two.
S2 (16:28):
Things, I think if you go to Psalm 83, verse
six through eight, you'll see that just about all of
those nations are right now involved in attacking Israel. That's very,
very close to what Psalm 83 is talking about. But
the other side to us is, uh oh. Now, what
(16:49):
was I about to say on that?
S1 (16:50):
It's okay. Here's here's the question. I do think that
the the nations will gather against Israel. Uh, I tell you,
today I got a very encouraging, uh, uh, picture and
text message from a professor at Moody who happens to
be in Seoul, Korea. And what he sent me was
(17:11):
a a sign. I don't even know where the sign was.
A big banner was hanging up, and, uh, it says, uh,
thank you, Israel, for fighting for the free world. And
then Korea stands with Israel and had an Israeli flag
that was encouraging. I think it was at a church
that they did this. So, uh, I think that it's
(17:32):
important I think this is what a believer's response should be,
in my opinion. What would you encourage believers to think
about these kinds of events today?
S2 (17:43):
I would say compare it to what happened in Germany
in the 30s. We're dealing with people who wanted to
destroy not only Israel, but the whole world. The chant
that goes on in Iran all the time is death
to Israel, death to America. And then the Houthis add
on a third line and cursed be Israel. Which brings
(18:03):
us right into Genesis 12 three. That those who curse
Israel will themselves be cursed by the God of Israel.
So I think it's real important to be praying. It's
important for us if you pray. So if the listeners
are listening, do pray for Israel's safety and protection. And
that the Lord would give us, like he gave to
(18:24):
King David, victory on the battle, and that he would
bring us to know the God of Israel personally. Mhm.
S1 (18:32):
Yeah, I think that's true. I think we need to
be praying. You know, when we say pray for the
peace of Jerusalem, I pray for the peace of Jerusalem
all the time. But I at this point, as there's
war with Hamas, uh, continuing and this war now with, uh, Iran,
I pray for the victory of Israel. And that's how
there will be peace. Now, it's not the final peace
(18:54):
that will come when the Prince of Peace returns, but
at least temporal peace, uh, and that peace will come
through the surrender of Hamas and, uh, the the final
defeat of this nuclear program at, uh, in Iran. I
think that that's crucial to understand. Uh, so we're praying
(19:14):
for peace in that way. Uh, any other areas specifically
that we should be praying for Israel?
S2 (19:22):
David's son Solomon said there's a time for peace and
a time for war.
S3 (19:28):
And of course.
S2 (19:29):
The birds. The birds sang that in their famous, uh,
Pete Seeger song. turn, turn, turn. Yeah. I think it's so, so,
so important, uh, to really be praying for the salvation
and the protection of Israel. Uh, to me, that's just
about the most important thing. One good thing and might
be encouraging to people is that because of pressure, C.S.
(19:52):
Lewis used to say, God whispers in our pleasures, and
he shouts in our pains. It's his megaphone to raise
a deaf world. There is greater openness spiritually in Israel
today across the board. People are seeking, you know, they
say there are no atheists in foxholes. That's happening in Israel. Uh,
(20:15):
it's not overwhelming. And we're not seeing, you know, a
Billy Graham meeting here, uh, in terms of amounts of people.
But there is a much greater openness. And so that's
worth praying for, that people will find the God who
they've been looking for and his Messiah.
S1 (20:31):
Yeah. You know, yesterday, uh, a mom of a of
a there's a Jewish believer who has sent several of
her children to Moody. One is coming this fall. In fact,
several are graduates already, three, I believe. Uh, she sent
me a link to a CBN report. News report, uh,
(20:53):
where they were there was a video that they showed
and then interviewed someone of a group of Jewish believers
gathering in a shelter during the ballistic missile assault. And
they were engaged in singing and worship. And I saw
three moody grads in that video. Um, and they they
(21:17):
were there in Israel and, and worshiping and I, I
pray that these young people that they will continue to
speak up with other Israelis, uh, that the Israelis who are,
I think it's fair to say, pretty stressed with this war.
We'll find peace and and rest and emotional well-being through
(21:43):
the Prince of Peace by coming to know Yeshua Jesus. Yeah.
S3 (21:46):
I think I think.
S2 (21:47):
One really good point is the issue of the heart,
that it's not just a chess game, of course, with
various pieces, Israeli pieces, Iranian pieces, but God's heart in
Isaiah 62 and 63 is bound to the Jewish people.
And when they suffer, it says he suffers. And so
that's so important. We're touching something very precious and deep
(22:10):
to the heart of God. And as we pray and intercede,
it's not only for prophetic fulfillment, but it's for something
which is really touching the love and the passion and
the heart of God.
S1 (22:22):
Yeah. You know, that's a verse that I find very
helpful when people ask me and they I'm sure they
ask you this where was God during the Holocaust? I
always tell them, uh, in Isaiah 63 nine, in all
their suffering and all their afflictions, he was afflicted. And
I think that when Israel suffers, God suffers with Israel. Um, and, uh,
(22:45):
I think that sometimes we lose sight of that, that
what breaks the heart of God. Uh, I don't know
if you know this story, but, uh, you know, the
person I'm going to tell you about, uh, your daughter
in law, uh.
S3 (22:59):
When she was not your daughter.
S1 (23:00):
In.
S3 (23:00):
Law.
S1 (23:01):
She, uh, she said to me she was going to
study this summer. Uh, it was a summer a number
of years ago. Uh, and she said, I'm going to
study on my summer break. She was a student at Moody,
and I'm going to see what breaks the heart of God. And, uh,
so she came back, and she was not a Jewish
studies major. She came and she said, I discovered what
(23:23):
breaks the heart of God. And that's the ministry I'm
going to be in. And I said, what's that? And
she said, I saw the two places where Yeshua wept
in the Gospels, and both places it was over the
unbelief of Israel.
S3 (23:36):
In.
S1 (23:38):
Luke 19 and in John 11. And the unbelief of
Israel is what breaks God's heart and breaks my heart.
And and lo and behold, she listened to that leading
of the Holy Spirit through his word and and ended
up wisely marrying your son.
S3 (23:57):
And that's how.
S2 (23:58):
She's listening to this broadcast right now.
S1 (24:01):
Yeah. Now that to me, uh, that understanding that the
Lord is with Israel and all their afflictions and, uh,
that he is, uh, he, he cares deeply and weeps
at the unbelief of Israel. Avner. Uh, what last things
can you tell me, uh, tell our audience. How would
you like them to? What kind of action? What kind
(24:23):
of steps can they take? At this point.
S2 (24:27):
I would say two things, even three things. One is, uh,
we're probably, uh, in for, uh, some very heavy ballistic
missile attacks, uh, usually at night. They only come out
at night. They can refuel better at night. So I
think it's very worth praying for Israel's safety and for
(24:49):
the Israeli and American soldiers, airmen who are interdicting these things.
The third missiles. The arrow missiles. That's the first point.
The second point is it says in Romans 116, don't
leave the gospel out. It's supposed to go to the
Jewish people. It's our Messiah. Bring it with priority first
(25:09):
to the Jew. And third of all, uh, one of
the signs you mentioned, uh, Michael, is anti-Semitism increasing, and
it doesn't only increase on the media, it increases next door.
And so when you run into that, it's time to
speak up and to stand for your Jewish neighbors. And
when you know Jewish people, let them know that you're
(25:32):
not buying into that.
S3 (25:34):
Hey.
S1 (25:36):
Thank you so much for joining me on Open Line. Uh, it's, uh,
very insightful, very helpful. We'll be praying for you. Uh, friends,
we're going to be right back with the Febc mailbag,
so stay with us. This is open line with Michael Radonich.
And that was my guest, Avner Boesky. And we're back.
(26:07):
So glad to be with you this Saturday morning. And
I'm really grateful to the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company for
partnering with Open Line to bring the weekly Febc mailbag.
Febc far Eastern Broadcasting Company is a terrific organization, and
they bring the gospel to people all over the world
(26:27):
through media and through personal engagement. I think that's so crucial. Yeah,
to to see what they're doing. Check out the Febc podcast.
It's called Until All Have Heard. You'll find it at
their website, febc. Uh, check that out. Well, joining me
right now with the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. She's
(26:50):
the queen of the questions. The person that puts all
those questions into the mailbag. And you know, the way
these questions come, Tricia, is, I mean, people send them
all different ways, but I want to encourage people. The
best way to send a question is to go to
our website, openline radio.org. Click on that, and when you
(27:12):
get there, there's a link that says Ask Michael a question.
That's a great way to get your question in. So
yes it is. And the the reason is, you know,
it's so hard when people are sending it to Facebook
or to different kinds of things. Instagram. The the result
is that that you're trying to drag it from all
(27:33):
over the place.
S4 (27:34):
Which I do. So if you do send it there,
I do see those, just not maybe not quite as
instantly as I do because the other ones go straight
to my email inbox. Yeah. And so it's just easier.
But I do find the others if you have put
one there. Yeah I will.
S1 (27:50):
It may take a time. And that's why people write
me and say, I asked this question about a month ago,
but I haven't, you know.
S4 (27:55):
That's right.
S1 (27:55):
So I'm just looking out for you, Tricia. Thank you. Uh, well,
let's go ahead with the question.
S4 (28:01):
All right. Our first question is from Mike in Indiana.
Listens to. Could you please explain the dietary prohibitions found in.
He gives three different references. Exodus 2319, Exodus 3426, and
Deuteronomy 1421. Many thanks for your faithfulness and help in
our biblical growth and understanding. Now, the first two Exodus
(28:23):
verses are both very similar, almost identical, but they say
something to the effect of bring the best of the
firstfruits of your land to the house of the Lord
your God. You must not boil a young goat in
its mother's milk. And then the Deuteronomy 1421 passage includes
the part about do not boil a young goat in
(28:45):
its mother's milk. But before that it says, you are
not to eat any carcass. You may give it to
a temporary resident living within your gates, and he may
eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner.
For you are a holy people belonging to the Lord
your God. You must not boil a young goat in
its mother's milk. So we have two different prohibitions that
(29:06):
don't eat any carcass, but you can give it to
a temporary resident. And don't boil a young goat in
its mother's milk.
S1 (29:13):
Right? Okay, so there's a lot to say about this.
First of all, there's a whole aspect of kashrut or
Jewish kosher law based on this, uh, this law. It's
why Jewish people don't mix milk with meat because they thought,
don't take a baby goat. This is how the rabbis
(29:33):
developed this. Don't take a baby goat and boil it
in its mother's milk. But then you might take, uh,
another goat and baby goat. And it's not its own
mother's milk. You think that's what it is? So it's okay,
but it turns out to be it's mother's milk. You
make a mistake. So they built a fence. No goat? No.
No mother's milk at all. And then they said, well,
(29:54):
you may think you're bringing a calf, not a goat.
Turns out it is a goat, or it is, you know,
and the next thing you know, they're building further and
further out. Uh, no meat, no milk together. And then
even more, even poultry and milk, you know? No. No
chicken and milk at all. And you can't eat them together.
(30:17):
If you eat meat, you have to wait a certain
amount of hours for it to digest before you can
eat a dairy product. Jewish people based on this law
have separate sets of dishes, dairy dishes and meat dishes.
And then of course, at Passover you have Passover dairy
dishes and Passover meat dishes and utensils and things like that.
(30:43):
So many Orthodox Jewish homes have like two ovens, two refrigerators.
S4 (30:50):
They cook them separately.
S1 (30:53):
To keep dairy and meat separately.
S4 (30:56):
Okay. Pots and pans?
S1 (30:58):
Yes.
S4 (30:59):
Okay.
S1 (31:00):
Absolutely.
S4 (31:01):
Okay.
S1 (31:01):
And so, uh, that's a whole set of laws which
is filling out the rabbinic law of building fences around
the law. The idea is you build a fence so
that you can't break the actual law. You build more
laws and laws and laws outside of it. And and
so that's going on. I don't think that's the right
way to interpret this verse. Many people think, I think mistakenly,
(31:25):
that this is a verse that about not boiling a
baby goat in its mother's milk is about, uh, a
Canaanite practice that's pagan, and that, uh, what Moses was
forbidding here was to engage in Canaanite worship practices. The
problem is that the earliest record we have of a
(31:48):
pagan using this kind of baby goat, or baby animal
in its own mother's milk, goes to the seventh century BC.
Moses is writing at 1400 BC, and so it's unlikely
that that was in his mind. I think the best
interpretation of that verse is as part of your worship practice,
(32:10):
you know, firstfruits. People think, okay, I bring my first fruit. Uh,
maybe I would bring the firstborn baby. Uh, also as
a sacrifice. Mhm. And basically what that is saying don't
boil a baby goat and it uses an idiom in
its mother's milk, meaning unweaned still nursing. Don't bring a
(32:35):
baby goat that is unweaned as a sacrifice. And the
reason is to show compassion on both the well. Compassion
primarily on on the mother goat. You don't rip the
baby from her and offer it. And so that to
me is what I think is the best interpretation of that.
(32:56):
And then the, the principle that would abide is to
show compassion and concern for animals, not just treat them
as as nothing or not having concern for them. Uh,
a person cares for the life of his beast. That's
the Proverbs teach. And so that's the principle, I think,
(33:18):
that governs us. As for the animal, there's a based
on the, the, the carcass of an animal. If an
animal dies of its own accord, the law prohibited eating it.
And it's still today in Judaism. You cannot eat an
animal that that died some other way other than through
(33:40):
ritual slaughter. And so that's always been the case. And
the reason was for protection, health of the individual not
to use a carcass. And, uh, there has to be
also concern for the animal with the ritual slaughter done
in the most humane possible way and most humane way possible.
(34:04):
And so. But God does say like. And you. I
think when we were talking about this once, Tricia, you
said so, uh, Israel would not have been allowed to eat. Uh.
What did you say?
S4 (34:16):
A deer? A deer that got hit by a car
on the side of the road.
S1 (34:20):
Yeah, couldn't do that. But if someone else hits a deer,
they get to pack it up and. Yeah. And so
it was against the law for Israelites.
S4 (34:27):
Okay. And even I think within that verse in Deuteronomy 1421,
it says, for you are a holy people belonging to
the Lord your God, that there is this is why,
you know, it's not just a random rule that God
was putting into place, but there was a reason for
this specific law. And even all of the laws that
(34:48):
he was giving them.
S1 (34:49):
All the kosher laws were designed to make Israel distinct
in how they ate. That's where we get the verse
in Leviticus 11. After the kosher laws were given, you
are to be holy, for I am holy. So it's
it was. You're to be distinct. Different because I am separate.
That's it.
S4 (35:09):
And you are to be separate also.
S1 (35:11):
Let's do another one. All right. Let's see if we.
S4 (35:12):
Can get one more question here. Let's try. Um, Lois
in Illinois listens to WNBA. Uh, this summer, we will
be having a family reunion weekend for our large family.
Two of the couples attending are believers in Jesus, but
living together without the benefit of marriage. I read first
Corinthians five nine through 11, and I want to know
(35:34):
how I should handle this situation in light of that
which says, I wrote to you in a letter not
to associate with sexually immoral people. I did not mean
the immoral people of this world, or the greedy and
swindlers or idolaters. Otherwise you would have to leave the world.
But now I am writing you not to associate with
anyone who claims to be a believer, who is sexually
(35:56):
immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard
or a swindler do not even eat with such a person.
S1 (36:05):
Yeah, I think it would be. It's important, I important.
I think I would be slow to answer this on
the radio. I'll give some opinions, but I think mostly
this is a question to talk about with someone personally,
like a pastor, because I would ask more questions, I
would want to know more. But first of all, I
(36:25):
think when Paul gives this limitation, it's believers who are
openly professing their faith in church, and they're now under
church discipline for their behavior. As far as I can tell,
these people that are being spoken of, that are living
together are not in church, and they are not under
(36:47):
church discipline. So that's one thing. Also, when you read
that verse in first Corinthians five, it says, anyone professing
to be a believer, anyone who claims to be a believer.
Now she says, I think they're believers, but are they
claiming it any longer? I don't know, that's a question
I would ask. And also, if all those things were true,
(37:10):
I'm not sure that it applies to family. It may
apply to someone that you go to church with, but
not necessarily a family member that there are. You know,
we have to engage with family in a different way,
for example, than we would with just general people in
the church. And so there are a lot of questions
that I would have. And just on the surface, I
(37:34):
would say that it's okay to go to the wedding
because I'm not sure this verse applies in this circumstance or.
S4 (37:40):
To the family reunion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S1 (37:43):
A wedding or whatever event that they're going to go to.
S4 (37:46):
Okay.
S1 (37:47):
All right. Family reunion.
S4 (37:48):
All right. Okay.
S1 (37:49):
Thank you. Well, listen, thank you for being part of
the team. I think it's one of my favorite aspects
of doing Open Line is doing it together with you
and others. It's such a great benefit and blessing to me.
And I love every member of the team. Everyone that listens.
I appreciate meeting our kitchen table partners. I was in
an event last week with a bunch of people and
(38:09):
they all said that, oh, not all, but many of
them there said, I'm a kitchen table partner. I'm a
kitchen table partner, and I appreciate everyone. That is, people
who give monthly to be part of the team so
we can be on the air weekly. And if you're
interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, I'd appreciate it.
All you'd have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go
(38:34):
to open line radio.com. And you can become a kitchen
table partner there. And as a special blessing and benefit
and a gift that we want to give to those
of you who are kitchen table partners, we prepare a
Bible study moment, Tricia and I, and we send it
out every other week. It's about a ten minute digital
Bible study, audio Bible study that you can hear in
(38:56):
your your email. You click on it in your email
and you get to hear it. And I hope you
enjoy those. Uh, again, if you want to become a
kitchen table partner. Uh, call (888) 644-7122 or go to open
line radio.org. Well, thanks for bringing those questions in, Tricia.
(39:19):
And being part of the team, we're going to be
back next hour with more questions. This is that was
Tricia McMillan. I'm Michael Rudnick, and we'll be back with
more of your questions in just a moment. Stay with us.
(39:49):
Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Rey Dominik, glad
to be with you. A couple of things I need
to mention before we go back to the phones. I
just want to mention real quickly, it's the end of
the fiscal year for Moody Bible Institute and your help
at this time with your generous gift will be go
a long way to making Moodie solvent and strong for
(40:11):
the future. Really appreciate all the generosity, but the main
reason I appreciate gifts is because I get to send
you something. Our current resource is just so terrific. Uh,
it's called the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. When you are reading
the Bible and you see a name or a place
(40:31):
or an event and you think, what's that about? Everyone
should have a Bible study library. And the Ultimate Bible
Dictionary is a real handy little book that you can
look those things up, you can find those items, and
it's what we want to send you as a thank
you for any gift that you send. And we're so
appreciative of your your generosity that we want to give
(40:53):
you this as a thank you. If you'd like to
give a gift for a gift of any size, we'll
send you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. Just call 44. 7122
or go to our website openline. radio.org. And as I
mentioned in the first and second segments of the program today,
(41:13):
if you didn't listen to it, my interview with Avner Boesky,
you can go back and listen to the podcast or
listen on the Moody Radio app, or go online and
listen by going to Openline radio org. There's all sorts
of ways you can catch those first two segments. But
Israel's in a war, a war that the nation didn't want.
And as I see the images of Iranian ballistic missiles
(41:36):
landing in Tel Aviv, it breaks my heart. And I wonder,
what's the future? Well Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners,
is offering a book called Israel's Glorious Future. The book
shows God's faithfulness to Israel as found in the Bible,
and gives a great picture of what the future holds
(41:56):
for Israel, despite its current difficulties. If you'd like a
free copy of Israel's Glorious Future. Just go to Open
Line radio.org. That's our website, Open Line radio.org. Click on
the link that says a free gift from Chosen People Ministries,
and you'll be sent to a page where you can
sign up for your own copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
(42:17):
We're going to talk to Dan in Scottsdale, Arizona, listening
on Wmbi. Well, online. Welcome to Open Line. Dan, how
can I help you today?
S5 (42:26):
Yes. My question is about the Pentateuch, the Torah. Um,
is that the only book that the Jewish people have,
or do they have more of, like the books from
the Old Testament of the Bible?
S1 (42:40):
Yeah, Jewish people have the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament,
we call it, uh, Jewish people call it the Hebrew
Bible or the Tanakh. They take the first part of it,
the Torah, take the T from that. Uh, then prophets
Nevi'im is the Hebrew word. Take the n from that,
and then to Veeam. And that's the writings. And they
(43:02):
say they take those three letters and they make the
word Tanakh, and that's the Hebrew Bible. In addition, they
have the Mishnah and the Gemara, which are that's rabbinic literature. Uh,
they have the Midrash, which are rabbinic commentaries. Uh, they
have many other books, targums which are rabbinic paraphrases of
(43:23):
the Hebrew Bible. So there's a great deal. That's why
the Jewish people are obviously the people of the book. Okay. Dan.
S5 (43:33):
Okay. And they do have the book of Isaiah, too.
S1 (43:37):
Absolutely, absolutely.
S5 (43:39):
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
S3 (43:41):
Great.
S1 (43:42):
Yeah. That's why Dan, uh uh, we I often will
point out messianic prophecy in the Hebrew Bible to my
Jewish family and friends. Uh, it shows them that it
reveals Yeshua Jesus as the Messiah, and I use the
Hebrew Bible to do that. Uh, thanks for your call, Dan.
(44:03):
We're going to talk to Tanya and Joel, two people, uh,
listening in Ohio. Welcome to Open Line, Tanya. How can
I help you today?
S6 (44:12):
So Joel's talking to you.
S1 (44:13):
Okay, great. Okay.
S6 (44:15):
What's our proper understanding of Mordecai and Hadassah? Um, are
they heroes of the faith? Are they functional atheists in
a pagan society that manages to be used by God anyway?
S1 (44:31):
Why would you think that they're atheists?
S6 (44:34):
That's what our pastor is preaching through right now in
the book of Esther.
S1 (44:38):
And that's what he said.
S6 (44:40):
Yes.
S1 (44:42):
Uh, you know what your dear pastor, I think is
misunderstanding the book. Uh, the point of this book. The
point of the book is to teach the providence of God.
Providence is God's care and protection and action on behalf
(45:03):
of those who who love him. Working everything out even
when he's using normal human events. It's the great coincidences
of life. Like Mordecai overhearing about the plot against the king,
or Esther finding favor and all those different ways. So
(45:24):
if they were functional atheists, she would not have called
for a fast. Mordecai would not have called for her
to take a stand for her people. Esther's people. So, uh,
the thing is, it's a literary device to leave God's
name out, that even when the nation of Israel had
forgotten God, and generally speaking, the people in captivity were
(45:47):
assimilating and not really being a tight, tight in their
following of the Lord. Even when that happens, God still
stays with his people when people forget God. God does
not forget them when he's got covenant promises. So that's
the point of the book. But don't make spiritual judgments
about Mordecai and Esther because no, they they were obviously
(46:10):
committed followers of the God of Israel. Well, that's the
first hour, folks. Second hour of Open Line is coming
up on most of these stations. Hope you can listen in. Uh,
if if you can't on your station, you can always
check out Open Line radio.org or or the Moody Radio app.
The Bible study across America will continue in just a moment,
(46:31):
so stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Melnick
is a production of Moody Radio, the ministry of Moody
Bible Institute. We'll be right back. So stay right there.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.