Hour 1: Study the Bible with Mike Fabarez

This Saturday on Open Line with Dr. Michael Rydelnik, guest host radio pastor Dr. Mike Fabarez answers your Bible questions. He is senior pastor of Compass Bible Church in California, a graduate of Moody Bible Institute, and an author of several books. If you have questions about the Bible, join us this weekend for Open Line.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:08):
Do you have a question about the Bible? Do you
ever wonder what we can know and understand about God?
Or maybe you're struggling with an issue in your walk
with the Lord. Would like some biblical guidance. Well, that's
why we're here. You're in the right place. We want
to help you understand God's Word, understand the God that
we love and serve. Hello, friends. It's open line time
with Doctor Michael Riddell. Nick Moody, radio's Bible study all

(00:33):
the way across America. The phone number this morning to
get involved in the program is [phone]. Write it down [phone].
And if you say doctor Ray, Nick sounds funny this morning,
that's because I am not Michael Riddell. Nick I am
Mike Fabares sitting in today for Michael Redlick. And I'm

(00:54):
coming to you live in the windy City of Chicago,
which happens to be very windy this morning. Many stations
here carrying the program across Moody Radio were sitting around
as Doctor Riddell likes to say, in the kitchen table,
talking about the Bible, talking about God, talking about your
Christian life. I'm the pastor of the Compass Bible Church
in Aliso Viejo, California. Also happened to be a graduate

(01:16):
of Moody Bible Institute, just like Michael Ray Melnick. And
if you've heard my voice before, it may be because
you've listened to Focal Point right here on Moody Radio.
Authored a number of books, some for Moody Publishing, which
I hope they're happy about. We're we're we're actually talking
about a new book. I won't I will just tease
you with that. We're talking about a new book right
now with Moody Publishing, and we're excited about the possibility there. Anyway,

(01:40):
I'm here today and Doctor Riddell is on stage. He's
about to get up on stage to pass out diplomas
and degrees at Moody Bible Institute's graduation, and so I
am happy to sit in for him today as he's
doing very important things. Our phone number again, if you
have a question about the Bible, the Christian life, something
on your mind that I can be helpful to get

(02:01):
you to think through it biblically? You've got to call me.
So right now we got a couple lines still open [phone].
Get it again. 877. That's a toll free area. Code 5483675.
Or if you want to, you can send your questions
through our open line website. That's open line radio.org. No spaces,

(02:24):
no dashes, just open line radio.org. And you can fill
out that little section that says Ask Michael a question.
And if you do that, it'll come to us. We'll
put it in our mailbag, and Trish McMillan will haul
it in here in just a little bit, and we'll
answer it on the air. We got Omar, uh, working
on our engineering. Karen is here answering the phone. So
that's the sweet voice you'll hear if you call us.

(02:46):
And that number again, if you want to talk to
her and then talk to me, it's [phone]. So I
hope you got your coffee, your tea. Or if you're,
you know, who knows what you're drinking this morning, Something's
going to make you think clearly. Uh, get your Bible out.
Pull your phones out. Get ready to study the scriptures together.
We're excited to do this today. And I love sitting

(03:06):
in for doctor Ray Melnick. And I love doing the
show here. And whenever he's out, he's not out very often.
This guy stays healthy. He's he's here like like old
faithful doing his work and we love him. But today,
just a little curveball we're throwing you. Mike Faber is
sitting in for doctor Ray. Let's get going. We might
as well do. Let's talk to Robert in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
You're on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help? Robert,

(03:31):
are you there? Okay, let's go to Lorraine in Carmel, Indiana. Lorraine,
you're on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?

S2 (03:42):
Nice to talk to you today. Hey, my question is,
can you hear me?

S1 (03:47):
I can hear you just fine. Lorraine.

S2 (03:49):
Yes. Um, a couple weeks ago, we attended a funeral
for my sister in law, And, um, I am not
sure that the rest of the family is ready to
join her in heaven. So how is the best way
for me to share with my nephews, um, how they

(04:12):
could get to heaven without offending and causing a rift?

S1 (04:16):
Well, I don't know that that is possible. And Jesus
told us that it's going to be hard to share
the truth of the gospel with people. So, number one,
I take that off the priority. What we want to
focus on is sharing the gospel with respect and gentleness,
which sounds like Lorraine. That should be no problem for you.
And I would just say to them, listen, I got

(04:36):
to tell you, it is very important that we get
ready for the next life. And you may think it's
just grandma or your great aunt or whatever, just trying
to give you old fashioned information. This is not old fashioned.
This is as relevant as every funeral that is conducted
in our county today, and that is that you're ready
to meet your maker. And I want to make sure

(04:57):
you spend eternity with them and with me. And I
want to I want to tell you the good news
that your sins have been paid for by Christ. So
you want to approach it that way. Just give them
the sense that you care about them. Make sure they
don't put it in a category of this is just
old fashioned grandma's stuff. Make sure that they understand this
is something true for every human being, and the only

(05:17):
reason you've got to share with them is because you
care about where they're going to spend eternity. And if
you start with that, and then you get them in
a context where maybe you're eating a meal or you're
just they're on a couch, you know, sitting next to
each other talking. I think that's the best we can
do because Jesus said, right, he's going to he's going
to divide families up if we're faithful to share his message.

(05:38):
And it's not the good news part that they struggle with, right?
If you say, I got to guarantee that you'll go
to heaven, they love that part. It's that you have
to share the bad news before we get to the
good news. And that's the part that's. It's like saying, hey,
I want to tell someone they're dressed all wrong for
this event. How do I say that without offending them. Well,
sometimes you can't do it. You know, you're going to
say you're not dressed, right? And that's the parable Jesus
told someone at a wedding reception, not dressed properly. You

(06:00):
got to leave or, you know, you got to change.
And this is the problem. People don't like that change.
So Lorraine, gentleness, respect and honesty and make sure you
tell them this isn't an old person thing. This is
not a traditional thing. This is not yesteryear religion. This
is as relevant as today. Every human being needs to
get right with their maker. Does that help?

S2 (06:20):
That sounds. It helps immensely. I wrote written notes. What?
You're suggesting we talk to them rather than write them
a letter?

S1 (06:30):
Yeah, I would, I mean, if it's possible, if you're
separated by distance, you know, that's different. Yes. And listen,
I wouldn't mind you writing out some things that relate
to the gospel, right? God is holy. He's creator. He's just.
He's loving. We have a sin problem. Jesus came to
solve it. You can write all that and leave it
with them. But I'd certainly start with a with a
face to face conversation and tell them it's because I

(06:52):
care about you. It's because I love you, and I
care about where you're going to be a thousand years
from now. So I think that's the way to start. Okay.

S2 (07:00):
Oh thank you Mike. I really appreciate.

S1 (07:03):
It. All right. Lorraine, I love the fact that you
called in today with such an important question to lead
off the program. Thank you so much. All right. Many
of our listeners will pray for you in that conversation.
Let's try Robert again. Line one, Fort Lauderdale, you're on
the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?

S3 (07:16):
Yeah. Can you hear me this time?

S1 (07:17):
I can hear you this time.

S3 (07:19):
Okay. Uh, the cross, the ornament that they have in
the sanctuary, ranging anywhere from 4ft to 20ft. Uh, on
some sanctuaries, the cross will have on the cross beam
a white cloth draped over it. You know what I'm
talking about, I do. Where did that tradition come from?

(07:41):
And what is the name of that cloth?

S1 (07:43):
Well, I'd have to look up the name of the cloth,
but it came as a tradition. A white cloth on
a cross that was given as a as a symbol
of the resurrection centuries ago, where people have said here
the cloth is representing a conquering the grave. Now, sometimes
churches who had Good Friday services will put a red

(08:04):
cloth over the cross, and then on Sunday they would
bring a white cloth, and they would adorn the cross
with that white cloth to show that he dies. The red,
of course, representing his death and his blood, and the
white representing the fact that he accomplished our righteousness and
has risen from the dead and conquered the grave. So
that's why that dramatic change in a service that's only

(08:26):
three days apart. That was the tradition, and I'd have
to look up the name for it. I don't I
don't even remember that there was a name for it.
I'm sure there is. But that's where that came from.
Now a lot of people will adorn their crosses only
for Easter and Good Friday. And the rest of the time,
if it's a Protestant church, they just take take that
down and some of them may leave it up for
a while. And if it's up year round, well, that

(08:47):
would be unique. I have not seen that in at
least the churches that I've been in.

S3 (08:52):
All right.

S1 (08:53):
That help?

S3 (08:54):
Well, when are you going to find the name of it,
or do I have to call one again?

S1 (08:58):
Well, you know what? Uh, you know what? Hold on.

S3 (09:00):
I do listen to you during the weekdays. Okay. I mean,
if you throw it out there during the weekdays, I'll
catch it.

S1 (09:06):
You know what? During the break, I will look this
up and I'll tell you what. Uh, I'll make sure
and mention it right after the break. How's that? Okay.
Keep listening today, Robert. Okay. Let's go to line four. Morris,
you're on the air with pastor Mike Faber is sitting
in for Doctor Melnick. How can I help?

S4 (09:21):
Yes, I'd like to know. You know, according to the Bible,
if we put anything ahead of God, it's almost like
worshiping a false idol.

S1 (09:30):
Correct.

S4 (09:30):
And I'm understand. Can sports be considered an idol by
the way we go for sports ahead of everything?

S1 (09:38):
Yes, absolutely. Sports. Uh, computers, uh, art, uh, riding bicycles, uh,
anything can become a greater priority. And, uh, you know,
you've said it, and I think we set people up.
And let me just let me get on my soapbox
now that you brought it up. Okay. I think parents
set up the next generation when they're willing to tell
their kids, hey, I know soccer. You know, it's just

(10:01):
soccer season. But it's okay. We can miss church. We
can miss, you know, the kids program or Awana or whatever. Just.
We're just going to do this. And they learn that
sports is more important than God or worshiping or assembling
for a sermon. So I think parents need to help
the next generation understand gathering together is more important than
forsaking it for other things. Right. And of course, every

(10:22):
now and then we have to take a vacation or
traveling across the country or whatever. But even then, I
remember raising our kids and saying, I don't care where
we're at, we're going to find a church and go
to church. But I'll tell you what we need to
show that God, the assembling of the people together, the
worship of Jesus Christ, the preaching of the word, way
more important than anything else. So yes, it can be
a problem. I remember reading old sermons from Chrysostom way

(10:43):
back in the day, and he was preaching there in
what is modern day Turkey. And he used to talk
about how the chariot races, uh, in the, uh, this
Byzantine Empire had become too important to his congregation and
that they were willing to put all their energy and
effort into the chariot races. And I think that is
as relevant, even though it may be, you know, 16

(11:05):
or 1700 years old. It's as relevant as us sitting
here today where people are more excited about a football
game or a baseball game than they are about Jesus Christ.
So I have no problem saying that's exactly, uh, one
idol that's very popular in our day. You've seen that,
haven't you?

S4 (11:22):
So, you know, when you go to these sporting events,
you see all these people in the stands standing in
long lines, and they can't find nobody in church hardly
anymore these.

S1 (11:31):
Days, I hear you, I hear you, and this is
happening slowly. And we've seen that. So, Maurice, you keep
preaching that message and tell people Jesus is more important
than any sport. It's more important than any hobby. It's
more important than walking the dog and going and getting
your coffee in the morning. It's more important than anything else.
We need to put Jesus Christ first. Thanks for that reminder, Maurice.
We got to move on. Here. Take a quick break.

(11:51):
I'm sitting in for Doctor Michael Ray Melnick. You're listening
to Moody Open Line on Moody Radio. The phone number [phone].
And I'd love to get you on the next segment.
So call that number [phone]. We've got some important things
to tell you about opportunities coming up. Coming up.

S5 (12:24):
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say thanks by sending you the ultimate Bible Dictionary. Call

(12:44):
886447122 or visit openline. Radio org.

S1 (12:57):
Well, welcome back to Open Line with Doctor Michael Riedel.
My name is Mike Fabares, and we were just before
the break talking to Robert at least a couple calls ago,
talking about the name of the cloth that is draped
over the cross during, uh, as I've looked it up
during lent, also in the liturgical churches and, uh, Good

(13:17):
Friday and on Resurrection Sunday. Well, he asked when it started. Well,
let's just talk about the name of it. Sometimes it's
just called the Resurrection Cloth. Uh, if it is, uh,
in a high church, sometimes it's called the liturgical cross. Um,
that's what it's called. And usually now they will say
either a crimson or a purple is what they dress
it in during Passion Week. And then a black cloth

(13:38):
is sometimes used for Good Friday. And then a white
cloth is displayed on Easter Sunday. Now, when did it start?
Early church didn't even use the cross as a symbol
for the first 400 years or so. But the medieval period,
they started to veil their crosses in different ways. And
during the Reformation 500 years ago, of course, they got
rid of a lot of the symbolism, which was fine

(14:00):
with me. I'm a bit of an iconoclast myself. That's
the word they use for saying, let's just minimize the
symbolism in worship. And the modern practice. You'll see purple
during Lent and Palm Sunday, black in some churches, or
red on Good Friday and white on Easter Sunday. So, Robert,
that's what they call it. You want to know the
name liturgical cloth, sometimes the altar veil or the resurrection

(14:22):
cloth or victory cloth. Some call it. And I hope
that helps you. All right, let's go back to the phones.
Let's talk to coy in Cleveland, line five, you're on
the air with pastor Mike Faber. How can I help?

S6 (14:34):
Hello.

S1 (14:37):
Yes, yes I can. What's your question today?

S6 (14:39):
Uh, I have a question about on the book of Genesis.
So when it talks about even the snake, me and
my buddy were talking about it and we couldn't find
where it was, talking about where God talked to Eve
and Adam, we could only find where it was like
talking to Adam. I was wondering if you could break
that down for me.

S1 (14:59):
Yeah, well, let's go back to the text itself. Um, certainly.
God did talk to Eve directly in Genesis three during, uh,
what is called the curse. But let me open up
here in Genesis and, uh, all of the commands not
to eat this clearly directed for both Adam and Eve.
So if that's the concern, you know, it was something

(15:20):
that Adam was supposed to do to make sure that
he and his wife did not eat of this, but
to minimize her sin. Because if I'm trying to follow
your logic here, you might think, well, if God didn't
directly tell Eve, maybe the command wasn't as clear. Please
remember everything about the marriage in the garden before the
fall was perfect. And in that sense, there's no gaming,

(15:42):
there's no half truths. There's no misunderstandings. I mean, everyone
understood everything. If God says, uh, don't eat from the tree, right?
I mean, then that certainly is the command that Adam
and Eve would both understand came with all the authority
of heaven. So, um. Yeah, as I look through the
text here in Genesis one and two, uh, all the

(16:02):
direction here, of course, applies to both of them. And, um,
you know, I just think that is something we have
to say. Didn't come with any confusion or didn't come
with any kind of, um, you know, of mitigation of
of the story. Right? They were told they can't eat
from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
And that was clear. And God commanded, even though it

(16:24):
does say in Genesis 216 to the man, you may
surely eat of the tree of the garden, right? Um,
but you can't eat from the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil. It applies to both the man
and the woman. It's an interesting thing you bring up,
and I'm going to go back through this on my
own and consider all of that. But still, I know
that because of the perfection of the garden, this command
came with full authority, clarity, and that, you know, Eve,

(16:48):
clearly in the New Testament, is described as sinning and
diving into transgression because she was deceived, knew what was right,
and did what was wrong instead. So where did you
go with that? Coy, because it's interesting that you make
this observation. What what was the implication of making that observation?

S6 (17:06):
Well, we were looking at it and we were confused
and we started talking about it. And he brought up
the fact, you know, as you said, he talked to
the man and we didn't think of it as a
perfect place at the time. Yeah, it's an interesting point
of view. And now that I think of it like that,
it makes a lot more sense. But we were thinking

(17:27):
maybe like Adam being a man didn't really talk too
much to Eve about it.

S1 (17:35):
Oh, I get it now. Yeah. Right. Right. And that's
exactly what I tried to say. We can't project the
way that we might talk to our wives or fail
to talk to our wives, uh, in the perfect setting
of the garden. And I'm looking at Genesis three when
Eve comes up, uh, here. And Satan is tempting her. Right?
He says, Did God actually say. And and the woman

(17:55):
repeats the command. Yeah. She said, yeah. God said, you
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that's
in the midst of the garden. Neither shall you touch it,
lest you die. Now that is intensifying what God actually says, right?
But think of think about it. She knew what was said,
and clearly it was communicated to her. And I just
think because we're looking at a narrative synopsis like a

(18:15):
truncated short narrative of what happened, I don't think there's
any doubt that that God made this clear to her
as well. Um.

S6 (18:25):
All right.

S1 (18:26):
Yeah, but I get it, I get it. And I
know I'm I'm imagining and filling in the blanks, but
I do know she's able to repeat the command and
even intensify it in Genesis chapter three. So. Ah. Yeah. Yep.
It's not. It's not like our marriages where we fail
to tell our wives many things. Because I know what

(18:46):
that's about. Thanks for that call. That's very thoughtful and
interesting and helpful for us to all think about. Let's
go to line 6th June right here in Chicago. You're
on the air with pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?

S7 (18:58):
Thank you. Pastor. Yes, I've been reading in acts 14
about Paul being stoned, and I see some similarity between
him and Stephen. Was Paul actually dead? And the God
revived him, and did he go to the third heaven
at that time?

S1 (19:17):
I don't think so. And I remember preaching through this
passage and thinking about this. As a matter of fact,
strangely enough, I watched a video that I received from
somebody about an actual stoning in the modern era. And
I do know this. It is such a horrific way
to die. And of course, there's throwing stones of all
different sizes, maybe as large as a baseball. If this

(19:39):
is painful and you can see that a man might
be left for dead, but not truly been dead, I
think Paul, when he was caught up, as it says
in Second Corinthians 12, uh, he was not because he
was in an injury or in a coma or in
some kind of, uh, health crisis. I think this is
about God making clear to him some things. And I

(20:00):
just don't imagine, as I read both those passages in
very close detail, that it was something that came out
of a medical crisis. So I wouldn't go there and
try and insert those two passages together. Uh, and I
do think they dragged him out. Supposing he was dead.
That's what it says in acts 1419. So I don't
think he died. I don't think his spirit left his body,
because that is the definition of death. When the spirit

(20:22):
leaves the body and, uh, we see that all the
way back to Genesis. But no, I don't think he
was dead. I think, as the text is careful to say.
And remember Luke, who is writing this traveling companion of Paul,
he's a doctor, and he uses that word. Uh, supposing
he was dead. So I don't think he was. Does
that help, June?

S7 (20:39):
Well, it does help me. Do you have time for
another question?

S1 (20:43):
Yeah. Lay it on me.

S7 (20:45):
Well, in acts, it talks a lot about the Holy
Spirit giving direction to the apostles and the Christians. And
it seems like he talked to them, um, you know,
out loud. Is that true? Well, how did he communicate?
And then they fasted and prayed. And the spirit. It

(21:05):
seems like his voice told them what to do, where
to go.

S1 (21:09):
Yeah. And that's that goes back to the title of
the book, The Acts of the apostles. Even this from
the very beginning, this record of the early church. Think
about it now, without a written New Testament revelation was
supposed to give us a very special window into the
founding of the church and God miraculously working through the apostles. Now,
even by the second century, the early church would talk

(21:30):
about the times of the apostles and, you know, the
miracles of the apostles Apostolic age. And so this was
a very unique period of time. And God was doing
unique things, including the way that God would, um, communicate
with his church. Now, I read some of the later chapters,
and I remember preaching through this book and thinking, okay,
now it says the Lord guided him here or guided

(21:50):
him there. Sometimes it's clear, like the Macedonian call when
he's in Troas, it's obvious he gets a vision and
he calls it that. Or like Peter getting that vision
there in acts chapter ten. Those things are clear. But
when it comes to like the Lord directed him here
or there, it leaves me shrugging my shoulders, but thinking,
probably because we have a very special group of people

(22:11):
like Elijah and Elisha who are getting very special revelation
from God, direct revelation, and then leading the school of
the prophets who would later write the Bible. And now
we can all look to the Bible, which the Bible
says is God's breathed word, and it is the direction
you read Psalm 119 and realize we go to the Bible,
the written word for his voice, for his direction. But

(22:32):
in those days they hadn't written the New Testament yet.
These are the early days of the church. So I
do think we've got a lot of special things going
on in the book of acts. We shouldn't think that's normative.
I shouldn't sit around and say, well, I want to
be an apostle. I'd like to hear from God the
way they did. I think we're more like we see
in Second Corinthians chapter two, when Paul says he was

(22:52):
uneasy in his spirit because he couldn't find Titus. So
even though there was an open door of ministry again
in Troas, he didn't go through it. And I think
we all have that experience. The spirit can give us
a sense of this isn't the right thing. And that's
so subtle and it's so deep within our hearts, and
we've got to check it against the Word of God.
But that's very different than what we're reading about usually

(23:14):
in the book of acts. So I think it was
I will leave room for that. The voice of God,
sometimes audible, sometimes in clear ways. It's hard for me
to explain, but not something I should teach the church
to expect in our Christian life because we have the
light of God's Word. 27 books of the New Testament
guiding us every day. We should memorize it. We should
meditate on it. And it's going to give us the

(23:35):
voice of God as we as we read it and
study it. Does that help, June?

S7 (23:39):
Oh, yes. Thank you so much. Bless you.

S1 (23:42):
Thank you June. Bless you too. And from June to Jane,
let's go to Jane. Line seven, you're on the air
with pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?

S8 (23:50):
Hey, I found you. Yay!

S1 (23:52):
Yay!

S8 (23:53):
Um. Hey, uh, after these questions, this one might. If
you say nothing, no questions. Too stupid. So here we go.

S1 (24:01):
Yes, I have said that many times. Go ahead, go ahead.

S8 (24:04):
You have.

S1 (24:04):
I have.

S8 (24:05):
But after the. After this morning. This doesn't sound too smart. Um.
One Samuel, one Samuel 25. The last two verses I
was reading that I've been reading through Samuel. And, um.
Since when? I don't remember anybody. Just taking a wife
away and giving her to somebody else. David was married

(24:26):
to my my Mike McCall. How to pronounce.

S1 (24:29):
Your name right.

S8 (24:30):
Michael married these other two women, and then all of
a sudden, uh, um, what's his name? His father in law. Uh, Saul.
Saul took her away. Yeah. Yeah. Took her away. How
did that happen?

S1 (24:43):
Yeah. There's a lot about.

S8 (24:44):
Married her to somebody.

S1 (24:45):
Else. Yeah. That's right. Well, if you remember, she wasn't
a fantastic wife to start with. She was barren and, uh,
critical of David. And, uh, God had disciplined her. And
that's what it says. The drama of it. We'd love
to see in a soap opera one day, but, uh, yeah,
a lot of strange things happening in marriage, even in
David's life. I'll give you a little bit more on

(25:05):
that right after our break, Jane. So hang on. If
you want to talk after the break, we'll do it. Definitely.
I'm doctor Mike Fabares, sitting in for Doctor Michael Rydell.
Our producer, Tricia McMillan, will bring the mailbag in just
a few minutes. You're listening to Open Line on Moody Radio.
We'll be right back.

S5 (25:26):
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(25:47):
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We're so glad that Febc partners with Openline, with Doctor
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(26:09):
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S1 (26:32):
To open line. I'm doctor Mike Fabares filling in today
for Doctor Michael Riedel. And it's the mailbag segment. And
that's when Trish flexes her big biceps and comes in
here with the mailbag. How are you feeling? Are you
strong enough for this duty today?

S9 (26:47):
I am feeling strong. Look at those.

S1 (26:50):
Guns on this girl. Amazing. All right, Trish is here,
and you got the mailbag. And I just said to
you just before we came on the air, like, let's go.
Let's get the ones that are oldest like that have
been here. So what do you have that hadn't been
answered this week? You've got to have a couple.

S9 (27:06):
I do, I do. Rachel in Michigan listens to Wgme.
And I think this is such a practical question. Um,
she said, I know that the I know the Bible
well and understand the hope of heaven. And I believe
in God's strength, in our weakness, like Paul talks about.
But Paul's perseverance seems focused on spreading the gospel and
not the daily issues that we're dealing with today like

(27:28):
emotional exhaustion, relational conflict, ongoing burdens like that because we're
told not to worry about what we eat or drink
or what we're going to wear. But those aren't really
the things that a lot of people are struggling with.
And so sometimes it feels like the Bible's comfort is
mostly future focused point to heaven. But in the meantime,
just endure and get through it. Okay, so is there

(27:50):
more real practical hope for the big struggles that we're facing?

S1 (27:53):
I can help you in two ways with this. I think,
number one, we need to separate. It's a lot like anger,
the doctrine of what do we do with anger? You know,
we think, oh, anger is bad. We shouldn't be angry. But,
you know, clearly Jesus was angry. And there's a godly anger, concern, burden, weight, anxiety.
You know, we often go to Matthew six and say, well,
we shouldn't we shouldn't feel that. And you're right, we

(28:13):
shouldn't feel that about trivial things. But Paul often confesses
with the same words comes from this this Greek word
to to be, to be torn and weighed down and burdened. Um,
he's torn and burdened about a lot of things. He
had the pressure of the churches. Now I understand his
burdens are the church, but it's also the people. I
think about his relationship with Titus. He's so concerned about Titus,

(28:36):
and he's on the Roman roads traveling. He's concerned about
what's going to happen to him. Now, here's the thing.
If we think that the promises of peace are supposed
to mean that I never feel that feeling, then we're
wrong because we have, you know, he has spiritual children,
we have real children. We have family members. We have
people we care for. We have burdens in our lives.
So we're going to feel certain feelings that we may think,

(28:57):
because we've read some passages one dimensionally, that we should
never feel that way. We're going to feel that we're
in a fallen world. There's a lot of things here
in this sin laden world that we're going to be
concerned about. So, number one, don't feel unrighteous if you
feel burdened, if it's about the right thing, if it's
a burden about, you know, am I have enough money
to pay the rent that may be like, not the
kind of burden we should carry. We should know that

(29:18):
God's going to take care of his kids. But we
care about people's souls. We care about people's lives. Number two.
I mean, you brought up the issue of of strength
and weakness. I will say, even though a lot of
the pressure points in Paul's lives were because he was
a missionary, he says in Second Corinthians one, I think
about that passage that he was so burdened beyond, like
thinking he could live any longer so that he could

(29:41):
rely on God who raises the dead. Here's the strength
that we have. It's not that we feel like we
don't have any problems, or that we're not burdened by problems,
but that we are strong enough to see that God
is a God that I'm leaning on. I think about Nehemiah.
He was in the middle of a difficult time worrying
about Israel. Jerusalem was in shambles and he took the king.

(30:02):
Artaxerxes talks to him and he prays to God. He's
right there leaning on God. He has this constant awareness
that I got to trust God for this. And I
do think that's the strength of a Christian that doesn't
look like strength from worldly standards. And I would say
to you, Rachel, if you're continuing to shift more of
your focus on I need God to get me through this,

(30:24):
or I need God to deal with this, then that
is the definition of strength. You're holding on to one
who is the king of the universe. But if you
think that's going to feel peaceful and tranquil and, you know,
hills of of grass and daisies, it's just not going
to feel that way. This life is laden with trouble.
In this world you'll have tribulation. Jesus said, but take heart.

(30:46):
That's the part where there's strength. Can you take heart
in the midst of the difficulties and a lot of
the difficulties, right, of being burdened, they're appropriate. That's what
godly people should feel a burden for things that matter,
not a burden for things that don't matter. Whether or
not we can have a larger house or a great
vacation on a cruise ship, that doesn't matter. What matters
is the things that matter to God, and we're going

(31:07):
to be burdened with those. And if you say you
know the word, well, then I'm assuming your burdens are
probably in the right place, even though you think, well,
I'm not a missionary traveling through Asia minor, I get that.
But the same thing is true. Second Corinthians chapter one,
I would say, is a good place to go, Rachel,
and I hope that may bring some help and perspective.

S9 (31:25):
And how how would, um, as we process this? Like
she even references like he seems focused on the gospel,
but the gospel speaks to these things. Um, how how
do you see how does it do that? Maybe it's
a better way to say that. Like we'll say, oh,
Jesus can fix it all, you know, or maybe not
fix it, but, you know, just go to Jesus. It's fine.

(31:47):
And and I think it has become like a cliche, almost.
It's like, well, how's Jesus going to help me out here?

S1 (31:51):
Yeah. Yeah. I guess it'd be like you having a
camper that you're living in while you're building this beautiful house,
and you're sleeping in the camper outside in the driveway
of the house that's in construction, and you think I
want to have the peace the Bible keeps talking about? Well,
the Bible keeps talking about a peace that's in the
house once it's finished. Not about the peace in the camper.
So the good news of the gospel is saying, this

(32:13):
isn't all there is. I'm an alien and stranger in
this world. I should expect pain and disease and sickness
and death and trials and trouble and apostasy and problems
and betrayals and judases. So I'm going to trust in
God to look beyond this. And like Romans 818, my, my.
I'm going to see that all the troubles of this
world are not worth comparing to the glory that will

(32:35):
be revealed to us. It's. Can I look beyond this?
It's like a kid doing his homework who's looking toward
graduation while he does his homework. This is the trial.
This is the trouble. So the good news of the
gospel is this isn't all there is. We're not going
to stay here. This is not our home. And that's
not where most Christians want to live. They want a
little bit of Jesus to make the camper livable, and

(32:56):
the camper is going to be a hard place to live.
And we're living in the camper. We're going to be
in the house. It'll be finished one day. And when
it is, God's going to take us into that house.
But right now, we're going to do the best we
can to be positive, focused, forward thinking, eternally minded. And
that's going to strengthen us to say, it's okay, I
don't have everything I want. It's okay that the guy
across the street has a bigger camper. It doesn't matter.

(33:17):
What matters is the eternal thing. So worry about the.
Here's what Jesus said about worry, right? He says, seek
first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. So decipher that.
Call that out. Bring out, tease that out and say,
here are the things I should I should concern myself
with today. And I think that can give us hope.
As Paul said, I want to lean on the one
who has the power to raise the dead because he

(33:37):
is going to die. He said I was despairing even
of life itself, but I'm going to focus on him
and I'm going to say, I can get through this.
In this world you'll have tribulation. So I think, I mean,
it's very nuanced. You picked a hard question here, Trish.
You really did. But but Rachel, you know, I hope
that gives you some sense of mental strength, spiritual strength.

(33:58):
Even though the storm doesn't stop and the camper is
still the camper and the mattress is still lumpy, or
you're sleeping in a in a sleeping bag on the
floor of the camper, you're going to make it. We're
going to make it.

S9 (34:09):
And I think sometimes there are words that other people
have written, um, like prayers that they have written or
even prayers in the Bible, but um, or or listening to, um,
like I heard Corrie ten boom on a little video
clip this week and, and these believers who are older,
who have been through those things, when you hear them
talk about it, can be so encouraging and almost inspirational. Um,

(34:33):
to help you put words to as you process like,
how what does this look like in someone's life to
see those people who are doing it? Um, that you
can say, oh, that's what that looks like. Excellent. Okay.

S1 (34:45):
That's excellent Trish. And that's where I would say, Rachel,
go to some biographies because we learn these people who
have these wonderful statements we always love to quote. But
between the wonderful quotes are all the real things Corrie
ten boom went through and the life that she lived
and the trials that she had and the struggles she had.
And I think that's helpful. And I read Christian biographies.
I like to read Christian biographies of pastors because that's

(35:06):
what I do. And I realize, man, it's hard for them.
But they say things that help me say, okay, we'll
get through this. We're going to make it.

S9 (35:13):
Yeah, that.

S1 (35:14):
Was one question.

S9 (35:14):
It was one question. Thank you. Rachel.

S1 (35:17):
Good one. Rachel.

S9 (35:18):
Thank you.

S1 (35:19):
All right. Well that's good. We got more. We got
a board full of questions here and we're going to
get to those, but we're going to take a quick
break before we do it. My number again [phone]. This
is open line on Moody Radio. Thanks, Trish for bringing
in the mailbag. We'll be back in just a minute.
Bye bye.

S5 (35:58):
So many people have questions about Israel. That's why Chosen
People Ministry is one of our partners. Is offering a
free booklet, Why Israel? This book explores the topic of
Israel through the lens of Scripture, bringing clarity to a
controversial topic. Has the church replaced Israel in the plan
of God? Does ethnic Israel still have a future? What

(36:19):
about Israel today? If you'd like answers to these questions,
just go to our website openline. radio.org. Scroll down to
the link that says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries.
Click on that and you'll be able to sign up
for your own copy of Why Israel?

S1 (36:41):
Well, welcome back to Open Line. My name is Mike Fabares.
I'm the pastor of Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo, California.
I'm a long way from home in the Windy City. Today.
It's graduation day in Chicago at the Moody Bible Institute.
I remember the day I graduated and I didn't have
the privilege of having Doctor Michael Riedel hand me my degree,
but that's what they're having today, and it's going on

(37:02):
right now. So I'm filling in here. I'm I'm off
the bench today filling in for Doctor Michael Riedel. And
I'm so happy to be here. And we got a
lot of calls. So let's try and get through them
as many as we can. Let's go to line one,
Nancy from Spokane, Washington listening on KMBC. Great station. How
can we help?

S10 (37:20):
Hi. I just first want to say that you're one
of my favorite pastors on Moody. I listen to you regularly.

S1 (37:25):
That's so sweet. Thank you. Who paid you to? I'll
send the check over to to let you know. I'm
thankful for that work of pushing my program. Thank you.
I'm kidding. Of course. I didn't pay you. Did I
know you say that. Okay, good. All right, Nancy.

S10 (37:40):
That comes from my heart.

S1 (37:41):
That's very kind.

S10 (37:44):
Um, but, you know, I believe in the rapture, the
tribulation and the thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on earth.
And I mentioned these events in a conversation with another Christian,
and they responded. These events only came on the scene
in the last 200 years. And that you couldn't take
revelation literally, that it was symbolic. And I don't understand

(38:06):
where this view came from. Is this an alternate view
within the Christian community, and if so, how do you
respond to this?

S1 (38:13):
Yeah, well, for those who grew up with a pre-tribulational
rapture view and a literal pre millennial view, which means
we're coming to a time of a thousand year reign,
we're just used to that. But yes, there are plenty
of alternative views about the end times. One is not
only that the book of Revelation is symbolic because of
course it is given to us in images, right? It's

(38:34):
what we call in the genre of the New Testament
apocalyptic literature, which means John is shown a series of
things that he relays to us. It is symbolic in
that sense, but we believe it's future people that believe
it's already past. And that's what this man is saying
or this woman is saying to you. It's called the
preterist view of the Book of Revelation. That means it's
already past. And they say it happened. All those things

(38:55):
were fulfilled in 70 AD when Titus, the Roman general,
came through and destroyed Jerusalem. I don't believe that Michael
Riedel does not believe that the professors here at Moody
Bible Institute don't believe that. We believe this is all
future yet to come, because the book of Revelation was
written in the late 90s, we believe, or mid 90s
at least after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
and all these things he said were still future. Now

(39:17):
they have to argue for an early writing of the
book of Revelation, which I think is just absolutely non supportable.
But the reason they say it's new is because they say, well,
this is what you call dispensational theology. It came through
the Plymouth Brethren, it came through Darby. And this is
all new stuff. Well, number one, even if it were,
which I don't think it is, as a matter of fact,
I came upon a book the other day called The

(39:38):
Recent Pre-Trib Findings in the Early Church Fathers by a
guy named Brainard, and I just happened to pick it up.
I'd never seen it before. And he goes through some
of the early teachings in the Didache and some of
the early Church Fathers, Eusebius, Irenaeus, and and showing the
statements about a pre-trib rapture. And so it's I understand
people say it's all new. Well, the systemising of dispensationalism

(40:01):
may be something new, but it'd be like us in
the fourth century saying, well, this whole one essence and
three persons and stating the Trinity that way. That's all new. Well,
it would have been new because they had gotten to
the place of of describing the Trinity that way. It
doesn't mean it was unbiblical. It is biblical. We've been
affirming it now since the fourth century that way. So
I don't I don't really mind saying, you know, well,

(40:22):
it was popularized later in church history, but the question is,
is it going to happen, number one, to say you
don't believe in the rapture? If they say that, you've
got to look at first Thessalonians 417. It says, we
who are alive will be caught up together to meet
them in the clouds and meet the Lord in the air.
So it's going to happen. The question is, when is
the rapture? And we're saying it's before the time of
Jacob's trouble, before the 70th week of Daniel, before the

(40:45):
Great Tribulation. Jesus talked about in Matthew 24, this time
that's the worst time to ever come upon the world.
And here's one reason I don't think it's 70 A.D.
because he has never been like this, ever. And it
will never be like that again. And there are plenty
of things worse than, than than Titus marching through Jerusalem
in 70 A.D.. I mean, think of the Holocaust is
worse than that. So I don't believe we've come to
the tribulation, yet I believe that's part of God's plan

(41:07):
for Israel. And if Doctor Michael Redlick, he'd be saying
it with with a lot more verve than me. But
I agree it wholeheartedly, full wholeheartedly. This seven year period
is yet to come. I do believe the rapture will
come before that time of tribulation. Just reading through that
book I just came across the other day again, reminds
me that people in the second third century were saying
these same things. Was it in a study Bible? No,

(41:30):
of course not. You know, did we have charts of it? No, no, no.
And was that popularized, uh, after Darby? Perhaps it is.
And did they say everything right? No, I don't believe
they do. But I think all the professors here at
Moody Bible Institute would say we believe in a pre-tribulational rapture.
God's got a plan for Israel being turned to their
Messiah in that tribulation period. God's judgment is going to come.

(41:51):
All the things that are written in the mid 90s,
in the first century by John on the island of
Patmos are yet to come, and that there's going to
be a thousand year reign of Christ. He says it
six times in revelation 20. I think it's literal because
it said six times a thousand years. And when is
that going to be in the future? After the tribulation period?
So I think it's all there. It comes down to

(42:13):
how we read the Old Testament promises. You look at
Ezekiel and that temple. Has it ever been built in
those dimensions? Never. Nothing even close to that. So I
think all of that's yet to come in the millennial Kingdom. Now,
good men can disagree. Good women can disagree on this.
But we are saying to say, well it's a Johnny
come lately view. So it's not right. Number one, I
don't buy the premise. And number two, I don't think

(42:33):
it's all that new, at least in its, you know,
rudimentary forms. And, um, you know, I think it's right.
I think it's the most consistent way to read the
Old and New Testaments. And I got a lot of
people in my camp. And certainly you've been taught that way, Nancy,
and to have someone say, well, I dismissed it because
I watched a YouTube video, okay. And there are great
people that have different views, but we're not going to

(42:53):
say they're non-Christians, but we are going to say one
day we'll see how this plays out. And I think
the people who expected a 70th year, 70th week of Daniel,
a time of Jacob's trouble, the worst tribulation ever. And
then a millennial kingdom. I think they're going to be right,
at least from my perspective. So don't be shaken by
this doesn't mean they're not Christians. It just means they
have a different view of the end times. Does that

(43:14):
help Nancy?

S10 (43:15):
Oh, it helps a lot. I just love how in-depth
that you've answered this question. And I'll be listening many
times to this.

S1 (43:22):
Okay. Yeah, I know some people think I talk too fast,
but I feel like I have very little time. I
know Doctor Riddell has such a wonderful voice and such
great pacing, but I only get to host every now
and then, so I want to jam in as much
as I can here.

S10 (43:35):
Yeah, and we can listen to it. Yeah, listen to
it all the time.

S1 (43:37):
That's right. This is just a ploy to get people
to go back and listen to the podcast. See, that's
all I'm doing. I'm just helping Moody here with that. Nancy,
thanks for your kind words.

S10 (43:46):
That you before.

S1 (43:48):
Oh. You hadn't.

S10 (43:49):
Yeah.

S1 (43:49):
Oh, well, no. What a terrible tragedy.

S10 (43:52):
Because I, I've been that's what I've been taught is
about the rapture and the tribulation and the, you know,
and I've been taught that it all is future that we're.
I mean, I pray for that. Come quick. Jesus. Please come.

S1 (44:05):
Yes. And I do think if you read in the Bible,
let me throw one more layer on this. If you
look at the things about the return of Christ, some
things are timed and they're like, you should expect it.
And here are the signs of it all. And some
of the statements are you never know when it's going
to happen. It's gonna happen when you don't expect it.
Two different expectations and one expectation is for the church.
We don't know when Christ is going to come back,
can come back today. And then for Israel. And a

(44:27):
lot of the teaching of Jesus is for Israel. He's saying,
you're going to know the signs are going to be there.
Here's what's going to happen. You see signs in the heavens.
You're going to see the sun not give its light.
You're going to see all these things. The vultures are
going to gather, and you'll know the end is going
to come. So I think we have two different installments
of the coming of Christ for the church to meet
Jesus in the air. And then in Zechariah 14 says,

(44:50):
for Jesus to come and set his feet down on
the Mount of Olives after the battle of of the
battle of Armageddon, to save the remnant Israel and set
up a kingdom for a thousand years. So I think
you're right, Nancy. You're talking to a friendly, uh, voice here.
I agree with your eschatology, and so do the folks
here at Moody, and I'm grateful for them. And we'll see. Uh,
if some of the nuances of our eschatology are a

(45:11):
little off, we'll find out one day. But I think
we're right. And, of course, we wouldn't teach it if
we didn't think we were right. Thanks for the call, Nancy.
Appreciate it so much. Let's squeeze in another quick call
if we can. Let's go to line eight. Brett, you're
on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?

S11 (45:26):
Morning, pastor Mike, how you doing? Good, good. Hey, um,
quick question. Um, why I, I attend Compass Church in,
in Aliso Viejo. So I'm very thankful for you and
the teaching over, you know, 17 years. So great. Appreciate

(45:47):
it very much. Um, why why don't we baptize babies?

S1 (45:53):
Because baptism is a sign of our regeneration. Uh, we're
supposed to make disciples and baptize them. Having a baby
is not making a disciple. I can address more of
this after the break. I'm sorry I got a hard
break coming up here, Brett. So stay on the line.
We'll talk to you after the break. But we are
so excited to have you listening today, along with so
many others here. This is open line. I'm Mike Faber

(46:15):
is filling in for Doctor Michael Rudnick. We got another
hour of Open line coming up on most of these stations.
At least you can go to Open Line radio.org. Open
line with Doctor Michael Riedel is a production of the
Moody Radio, which is, I say, the Moody Radio. It's
the only one. Moody radio, a ministry of the Moody
Bible Institute. We're so happy to be on the air today.

(46:37):
And if you stick around, we've got another hour coming up.
We're excited to get back to your questions.