June 7, 2025 • 46 mins
Has your small group Bible study slowed down for the summer? Stop the "summer slide" and join Dr. Michael Rydelnik each Saturday to study the Scriptures. What questions do you have about the Bible, God, or the spiritual life? Learn with us each weekend on Open Line.
Learn more about resources mentioned:
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Moody Bible Commentary
Trip to Israel with Michael, Sept 7-18, 2025
June thank you gift:
Ultimate Bible Dictionary
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:09):
What is the shortest distance between two points? Well, geometry
tells us it's always a straight line, but with God,
that could be really different. Stay with me and we'll
talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome
to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My
(00:30):
name is Michael Riedel. I'm the academic dean and a
professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
I am so grateful to be joining you around the
radio kitchen table. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God,
and the spiritual life. If you have a question and
you'd like to call, now is the time. The phone
(00:50):
number here is (877) 548-3675. Let me give that to you
one more time. You can write it down if you like. (877) 548-3675.
Tricia McMillan is our producer. Omar Mendoza is our tech
(01:11):
guy handling all these, handling the board and all things technical. Rihanna.
Rihanna and Ananda are answering the phones today. Again, the
phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me tell you what happened this morning.
(01:31):
I was. In Akron area last night at an event
for Moody Bible Institute. I went to bed as soon
as the event was over. Got up at 330 in
the morning to head back to my home so I
would be here a couple of hours before the program
began to go to the. I have an in-home studio.
(01:52):
That's where I was going to be doing the program from.
And everything was on target. I actually I set the
the the map program in my car and it said
I would arrive at 8:30 a.m. at 825. I was
five minutes from my home and there was a road closure.
(02:15):
And so I thought, okay, I'll just go around the
block and go to this other part to enter the
road there. Nope. Close there. Uh, the very first road closure,
I said, I'm not sure where to go from here.
And the people there at the road closure because there's
a triathlon going on. They said, we don't care because
I said I didn't know where to go. They said,
we don't care. I thought that was a funny answer.
(02:37):
Then I tried another route to get into the the street,
and there was a police car there blocking off the traffic.
And I went to the police officer and I asked
him about how am I supposed to get to my
home if this road is closed? And he kind of
looked at me funny and he said, you know, you
really can't get there from here. And I thought, what
(02:58):
do you mean? I can't get there from here? And
I had to drive about 45 minutes around the town
I live. I never knew where I was going. I'd
go one place and there'd be a road closure. I'd
go another place, and there was a road closure. It
took me 45 minutes to make that five minute trip.
And it made me think of a message I had
(03:20):
heard many, many years ago by Don Sinukuan, who is
a professor of preaching out at Talbot School of Theology.
When he taught at Dallas, he gave a message that
was called the shortest distance between two points is a
zig zag. And he talked about the wilderness wandering in
(03:42):
particular when Israel first left Egypt, how instead of taking
the people in Exodus 13, God says, I won't take them.
Verses 17 through 19 on the the fastest, quickest route
because they'll see they'll have to come up through Philistine
territory to go to the Promised Land, and they'll be afraid,
and they won't want to make that trip. And so
I'm going to take them down by the Red sea.
(04:04):
He took them on a zigzag if you follow the route,
and that was what was best for them. And then
today I certainly had a zigzag route to my home.
It made me so anxious because I really needed to
get home so I could be here to do the program.
(04:26):
But I kept thinking, as long as I keep my focus,
I will be able to get home. As long as
I keep the goal in sight. As long as I
keep my address in the Google Maps program, I will
be able to get home. And it sure took me
a while. But I did get home. It took me
(04:46):
a zigzag, but I got home and that made me
think of our walk with the Lord. That sometimes we
want to go on the fastest route. However, God has
better plans for us. Alternate ways that will get us
home to the goal safely get us to where we
need to be safely, but not the most. Not the
(05:09):
quickest way. Just the way that he deems best for us.
And we won't always know why. That is why God
wants to do it that way instead of another way.
And I thought, that's a great reminder for us, because
on our walk with the Lord, there's going to be roadblocks.
There's going to be obstructions. They're going to be. Holes
(05:32):
in the potholes in the ground, all sorts of things
that will change our direction in with our walk. And
it's not because God doesn't have our best interests at heart.
It's because he knows what we need and where we
need to be. But how do we get to the goal,
even with the obstructions, even with the difficulties? It also
made me think of Hebrews chapter 12, verses one and two.
(05:55):
It says, therefore, since we have such a large cloud
of witnesses surrounding us, let us lay aside every weight
and the sin that so easily ensnares us. And then
here's what it says let us run with endurance the
race that lies before us, keeping our eyes on Jesus,
the source and perfecter of our faith. And that's what
(06:19):
I kept thinking of this morning, because I had the goal,
the object before my eyes, my home address. That's where
I needed to go. And there are all sorts of turns,
all sorts of obstructions, all sorts of ways to get here, detours.
But because I kept my eye on the goal, because
(06:40):
I fixed my eye on that, I was able to
get here. And the same thing in our walk with
the Lord. No matter what the zig zag is, no
matter what the detour, whatever the obstruction, the difficulty we face.
This passage reminds us that we need to keep our
eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus, who is the source
and perfecter of our faith, and that will bring us
(07:02):
home in the fastest in God's timing. The best way
for us. And that's the great reminder that I had
this morning on my excitement on the roads. Before we
(07:27):
go to the phones, I want to mention that we
have a really great resource this this month. You know,
people wonder all the time, what kind of books do
I need to have? Well, I think it's great that
we build a basic library, and our current resource is
one of those books that we need to have. It's
(07:48):
a Bible dictionary when you wonder who are these people
in the Bible? I just looked up this person I
don't know. Or where is this place that's mentioned? Or
what's this event that's cited? What's this holiday holiday that's
being spoken of? If you have a Bible dictionary, you
can look it up. And so when you give a
gift of any size this month to open line, we'd
(08:09):
like to say thanks by sending you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary.
It's published by B and H, the same publisher that
produced the Holman CSB. My favorite Bible translation, the Ultimate
Bible Dictionary, is easy to carry. It's small, it's easy
to use. It's just a great resource. And if you'd
like a copy, it's yours. When you give a gift
(08:31):
of any size. If you'd like to give a gift,
go to our website openlibrary.org. You can give there, or
you can call (888) 644-7122. That's (888) 644-7122. I hope you'll do this.
I love this resource. Uh, we're going to talk with
(08:52):
Jeff in Indiana right now listening on WGN. Welcome to
Open Line, Jeff. How can I help you?
S2 (08:59):
Good morning. Michael. Um, my question is on Isaiah 57
one and two. It says the righteous man perishes and
no one lays it to heart. Devout men are taken
away while no one understands. For the righteous man is
taken away from calamity. He enters into peace. They rest
in their beds, who walk in their uprightness. Some of
(09:19):
the translations I read talk about children in this passage
instead of men. Is it talking about young people dying
before their time or. I just need some direction. Please.
S1 (09:31):
I need to look up that verse in the Hebrew.
Hang on a second here. I'm, uh, turning to Isaiah 57.
In the Hebrew, uh, in verse one. Uh. Well, uh,
where it says the righteous man perishes. It doesn't say, uh,
(09:57):
man or child. It says the righteous perish and no
man takes it to heart. And I don't think it
gives you age. Let me see the second usage. Uh.
The righteous man for the righteous is taken away from evil.
(10:19):
Same thing. The righteous. It should be translated, the righteous person. Uh. And, uh,
he enters into peace. It's not about age. It's. It's
about character. Uh, so here's what I would say. The
peace that a person, it doesn't matter their age. But
(10:40):
we often think that people have to live a long life.
God takes us at the right time in his hands.
Life and death. He knows the right time. And that's
if we know the Lord. That's when we enter into peace.
You know, there's a reason this is called the Veil
of Tears. There's some challenges about living now. I want
to live a long life, and I'm grateful for every
(11:02):
year that I have. I'm grateful for being with my family. Uh,
I almost died, uh, quite early, about 20 years ago,
a little earlier than I anticipated. Anticipated. And I was
so grateful when I didn't. And I remember calling my
friend and saying, wow, I'm so happy to be alive.
He said, oh, you'd be happier dead. And I thought, well,
(11:24):
that's really true because I'd be with the Lord. But
God had purposes for me to be here. Um, I
thought my wife still needs me. My kids maybe. Don't know,
but they needed me still. And, uh, there are things
I still had to do for him. And so God
knew the timing, and he spared my life. But for
(11:45):
any person that goes to be with the Lord, that's
the right time. And that's what this is saying, that
they rest in their beds, each one who walked in
his upright way, he enters into peace or she enters
into peace. It's God's timing that is best. That's what
that verse is about. Gives us encouragement about knowing that
when we go to be with him, it's the right time,
(12:08):
don't you think?
S2 (12:10):
Yes. Thank you.
S1 (12:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for your call. Really appreciate it. Uh,
we're going to take a break here, and when we
come back, we'll take more of your calls. The phone
number (877) 548-3675. That's (877) 548-3675. Give us a call with your
question about the Bible, God or the spiritual life. This
(12:33):
is open line with Michael Ray. We'll be right back.
So stay with us. And we're back. My name is
(12:58):
Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line, and we
talk about your questions about the Bible, God and the
spiritual life. And I am so glad to see our
team here. Tricia McMillan is our producer and Omar is here.
I appreciate I, I see them on the screen. They
smile at me when I mention their names. I always
(13:19):
like that. Uh, they're really part of the team. And
one of the things I really appreciate is that when
people write to the program, they so often tell me
how much they appreciate the whole team and everyone that participates, uh,
whether it's phone screeners, engineers, producers, no matter who it is,
(13:39):
they recognize that this is not a one man operation.
It's a team. And the team is pretty broad because
without listeners calling in with their questions, well, we wouldn't
have a program at all. They're part of the team
as well, and every listener who benefits grows in their
walk with the Lord and their understanding of the word.
They're part of the team as well. And then there
(14:00):
are some really special people who are part of the
team because they have become kitchen table partners. I so
appreciate them. Uh, every one of them who give monthly,
they give monthly so that we can be on the
air every week, uh, teaching and studying the word together.
And as a special thank you for them. What we
(14:21):
do is Trish and I produce a Bible study moment
every other week. It's a audio Bible study designed exclusively
for our kitchen table partners. Get it in the in
your email. Click on it. Get to listen. It's about
ten minutes long. And I think it's just a way
of us saying thanks. We appreciate you so much. We
want to encourage you with the word. And if you're
(14:43):
listening and you may have given a gift occasionally, uh,
if there's a resource that you're interested in or you
may have never even given before, but you appreciate the program,
if that's something that you want to continue, perhaps you'll
consider becoming a kitchen table partner as well. That's pretty
easy to do. All you have to do is call
(15:04):
8886447122886447122 or go to open line radio.org. And you too
can become a kitchen table partner. If you even think
about it, we'd really appreciate it. We're going to talk
with Scott in Havelock, North Carolina listening on. Welcome to
(15:26):
Open Line. Scott. How can I help you today?
S3 (15:31):
Good morning Michael. Um, my question revolves around the verse
that says, uh, absent from the body present with the
Lord when we die as a Christian, um, when our
soul actually departs and goes to the Lord. Do you
think that at that time we're conscious and we know
(15:55):
that we're with the Lord? Or are we still basically
sleeping until the rapture?
S1 (16:01):
What? Why would you think we're sleeping till the rapture?
S3 (16:08):
Well, I don't know. I've heard, you know, so many
things that say, you know, we're sleeping until the Lord
comes back. But then I hear absent from the body
present with the Lord. So I'm. I mean, I'm thinking
that our eternity in heaven begins at the moment that
(16:29):
we die.
S1 (16:31):
So I'm pressing you a little bit here, Scott. My
friend Scott, this is what I want to know. Why?
Where have you heard that? We're sleeping and not conscious.
S3 (16:46):
Well, I think it was, if I remember correctly. Um.
I can't think of his name. Um.
S1 (16:57):
So it's a a preacher. Is that what you mean,
a preacher or a teacher or something like that? Okay.
S3 (17:03):
Yeah, it was a it was a preacher. No, it
was a preacher. Yeah. Um.
S1 (17:07):
Well, let me tell you where that misunderstanding comes from.
You're absolutely right. Absent from the body. Present with the Lord.
Even think about Lazarus. Uh, who? When he died, he
was utterly conscious of where he was being comforted by Abraham. Uh,
and even, uh, his the rich man, even though he
(17:30):
wasn't with the Lord, he was conscious of what was
going on. I know that's a parable, but it's a
reflection of reality. So of course we're conscious when we're
present with the Lord. The. The basis of this idea
of soul sleep until the resurrection is from first Thessalonians 413,
because it keeps using the word asleep as a euphemism
(17:52):
for death. It says, for we do not want you
to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so
that you will not grieve like the rest who have
no hope. And then it says, God will bring with
him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. And then
it says in verse 15, we will certainly have no
advantage over those who have fallen asleep. Why? Because the
(18:15):
dead in Christ will rise first, and then we who
are still alive will be caught up together with them
in the clouds. And so they fail to understand that
this is just a euphemism for physical death. And so
when it says we're asleep, the reason it says that
is because when we look at a dead body, We
(18:35):
can see that that dead body looks like they're asleep.
And so that's why Paul uses that gentler term rather
than dead. He uses the word asleep. But here's the
little clue that a lot of people miss. Now, this
is talking about the return of the Lord at the rapture. Right? Uh,
that the dead in Christ will rise first, the dead
(18:56):
in the Messiah rise first, and then we who remain
will be caught up. Snatched. That's the word that, uh,
u is used there that we get the word rapture
from in Latin, but we're caught up, uh, or snatch.
I call that the great snatch. But back in verse 14,
(19:19):
here's what it says. Since we believe that Jesus died
and rose again in the same way, God will bring
with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. So
the depiction there is when we die. Our immaterial part,
the spiritual part of us goes to be with the Lord,
(19:40):
and we're conscious of it. When he descends, he will
descend with us, with those who have died with their spirits,
and then their bodies will be resurrected and reunite right
there up as the Lord descends from heaven. That's when
we will be resurrected. The resurrection isn't a wake up
(20:01):
from sleep. It's a reunion, a reunification of our immaterial
part with our material part. That's what happens at the
rapture for members of the body. Uh, the the of
of Messiah. Okay, that's what's going on there. And that's
where the misunderstanding comes in. Here's what what I find
(20:21):
people do is very often people who are teaching things
that aren't accurate. They pick one verse, they misinterpret it,
and they ignore the rest of Scripture. The rest of
Scripture we have is that when someone dies, they go
to be with the Lord and they're conscious of it.
And that's what Philippians one says. Paul says that to
(20:42):
live is Messiah, to die is gain. He says it
would be better if he could for him, if he
could go to be with the Lord. But he needed
to remain for the sake of the Philippians and the
ministry he had with them. Second Corinthians five absent from
the body is present with the Lord. So yeah, you
got that right. But it's the immaterial part of us
(21:03):
that goes to be with the Lord. It's conscious. And
then when the resurrection happens at the rapture, the physical
body is resurrected and reunited with that immaterial part, the spirit.
And that's what happens. There's a great reunification that happens
at the resurrection. Does that help, Scott?
S3 (21:24):
Awesome. Thank you so much.
S1 (21:26):
Yeah. Great. I'm so glad. And by the way, this
is I think we missed the point. People argue about
the rapture, they argue about soul sleep, which they shouldn't.
Here's the thing that so often when people lose someone
they love, they fall into the depths of despair. Their
grief is so intense. I completely understand that. But we
(21:52):
also need to remember that if that person knew the Lord,
that there's going to be that great reunion, not just
of the immaterial part with the material, but of all
of us together, whether we are alive or whether we're asleep.
We're all going to be together forever with the Lord.
There's going to be a great reunion. And that's why
the passage says, we don't grieve as those who have
(22:15):
no hope. If we had no hope, our grief would
be far worse. But we have hope. It's not that
we don't grieve, but our our grief is mixed with
hope of a great reunion one day, and that gives
us a great deal of comfort. Okay. Okay. Thanks for
your call, Scott. We're going to talk to Robert in
(22:35):
Fort Lauderdale. Listening on. Welcome to Open Line, Robert. How
can I help you today?
S4 (22:42):
Hi. Um. Yeah, my question is, I was right. I
was reading judges this morning, and in judges chapter ten, uh,
it talks about, uh, uh, Israel going after other gods.
(23:03):
And in verse 13 it says, I will, uh, God says,
I will deliver you no more. And then, um, he
also says in verse 14, let them deliver you in
the time of your distress. Then God changes his mind.
In verse 16, he says he could bear the misery
of Israel no longer. And in verse 16, my question is, uh,
(23:27):
they put away the foreign gods from among them and
served the Lord. If that repentance was so sincere, why? Uh,
I don't know if you have an answer for it,
or I just want your commentary on it. Why did
Israel not just destroy those gods and serve the Lord?
(23:49):
It says in the Scripture, it says they just put
them away. Meaning to me as they put them on
a shelf. So when they feel like it, they have
access to them again.
S1 (23:59):
Well, you actually don't know how they put them away,
nor do I. It could be that they smashed them
and that's how they put them away. It could be
that they buried them and that's how they put them away. Uh,
it depends on how easy or hard it would be
to to destroy them. And it seems to me that
(24:20):
the word put away means they got rid of them.
And it could be they got rid of them through destruction.
Or it could be they got rid of them through burial.
It could be they got rid of them by throwing
them in the river. I don't know how they got
rid of them, but. But they got rid of them. Okay.
S5 (24:35):
Okay. Right. Yeah.
S1 (24:38):
I'm not, I'm not. I don't think this means they
they put them on the shelf to wait for the
time where they can pull them out again. That doesn't
seem to be what the text is saying.
S5 (24:48):
Uh, okay. So. Okay. All right. Thank you. Good, good.
S1 (24:54):
I'm so glad. Thanks for your call. Hey, uh, one
of the really fun things that we're going to do
is I am going to go to Israel in September,
September 7th through the 18th. And when I go, uh,
we have a group of people. There's only a few
spots left. And today or this week is the last week, uh,
(25:15):
that we have this trip open. So if you are interested,
I think we only have like 4 or 5 spots
left on this trip. If you're interested in joining me,
it's safe. Uh, the best place to go is go
to open line radio.org. Scroll down. You'll see a link
to my personal web page if you'd like to join
us this September in Israel, we'd love to have you
(25:36):
join us. There's only a few spots left, so don't
miss out on very little time. Uh, stick with us.
We're going to come back with the mailbag in just
a moment. Uh, you're listening to Open Line with Michael Ray.
Stay with us. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
(26:09):
Open Line. It's time for the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company mailbag.
The Febc mailbag. I'm so grateful for Febc because they
partner with Open Line to bring you the weekly Febc mailbag.
Febc is a wonderful organization. It brings the gospel to
people through media and also personal engagement. You should really
(26:34):
check out this ministry. It's febc. And when you're there,
you can find their podcast. It's called Until All I've
Heard featuring Ed Cannon. I know you're going to love it,
so check out febc. And joining me right now with
the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. Hey, Tricia. Hello. Well,
(26:56):
I see you brought a partner today. Someone to work
with you.
S6 (26:59):
I did, I brought a special program observer today. It
is my ten year old son, Duncan. Duncan loves the Bible.
And so I said you should write up a question.
And he was like, okay, so he's got five. We're
not going to ask five. Um, but but that's.
S1 (27:15):
Going to be a special program.
S6 (27:17):
He's my Bible reader and knows knows the Bible. And
so even the questions he came up with Just off
the top of his head were, um, ones that often
adults will call in with. And so I was like, okay,
that's great. Yeah.
S1 (27:30):
That's great. Hey, Duncan, how are you doing?
S7 (27:33):
I'm doing good.
S1 (27:35):
Good. I'm glad. I'm glad you're there. Uh, it's always
fun when, uh, when, uh, your mom brings in one
of the kids, and usually it's Annie. So today it's you, Duncan.
That's pretty exciting. Uh, is this your first time coming
to open line?
S7 (27:53):
Yes, I think it is.
S1 (27:55):
Yeah. And what grade are you in, Duncan?
S7 (27:57):
Um, I'm going into fifth grade.
S1 (28:00):
You just finished fourth?
S7 (28:02):
Yep.
S1 (28:03):
Wow. That's pretty exciting. Do you have any big plans
for the summer?
S7 (28:08):
Well, we're going to Tennessee this summer.
S1 (28:11):
Oh. That's great. You're going to have a lot of
fun there. That's a lot of fun. Well, why don't
you go ahead and ask your question?
S7 (28:18):
Uh, my first question is, why did Jesus speak in
parables instead of just telling them?
S5 (28:25):
Well.
S1 (28:28):
I think that sometimes we forget that so much of
the Bible is in story form. Now they're true stories,
but they're its story form. And I think it's because people,
for the most part, learn best. Historically, we know this
through stories. And so the the Lord starts telling stories
(28:50):
in the book of Matthew starting in Matthew 13. And
parables are true to life stories with a spiritual message.
And in verse 11 of, well, let's start with verse ten.
I think it's interesting because the disciples asked the very
same question you asked Duncan. It says in verse ten,
(29:12):
the disciples came up and asked him, why do you
speak to them in parables? Don't you think that's interesting?
They're asking the very same question that you are asking.
And the Lord answered them, because the secrets of the
kingdom of heaven have been given for you to know.
But it's not been given to them, for whoever has
(29:36):
more will be given to him. And the one and
he will have more than enough. But whoever does not
have even what he has will be taken away from him.
So here's the point the Lord makes. One of the
reasons that he speaks in parables is to reveal the
truth to people who are open. It helps us if
we're open to him, if we are listening to him,
(29:57):
if we want to learn from him. He tells the story,
these true to life stories, and it makes the spiritual
truth seem all the more real, all the better. But
if a person doesn't want to hear from the Lord,
it's got a closed mind. They think, what are all
these silly stories? And they don't want to hear them.
(30:17):
And it conceals the truth that hides it from them.
So the point of parables is to make it easier
for people like you and hopefully like you. I know
it's like your mom, hopefully for me that because we
love the Lord, we hear the stories and we learn
from them and we grow. But if a person doesn't
love the Lord and they're kind of cynical, what happens
(30:41):
is they hear the story and they think that's a
silly story. I'm even going to bother with it and
the truth is hidden from them. So that's the point.
It either reveals the truth or conceals the truth that
either explains the truth or it hides the truth. It
depends on our heart and how we receive the truth. Okay.
S7 (31:00):
Okay.
S1 (31:02):
Good. That's. That was a really great question. Uh. Thank you. Tricia.
Did anyone else have any questions?
S6 (31:08):
Yes, we did have a couple others. One of them
is from Shirley, who wrote us on Facebook and wanted
to know where the apostles got the baskets for the
food at the feeding of the 5000.
S1 (31:22):
Mhm. They probably went to target.
S6 (31:24):
I'm.
S1 (31:24):
Guessing. I don't know.
S6 (31:26):
Well what I realized with this question is it can
seem like this is just a thing of curiosity. However,
knowing how people lived at that time, it, it seems
like it would have been more likely that in the
same way that people today may just carry a large
purse or a backpack and they just carry them around
with them, that maybe they just had baskets with them,
(31:50):
like maybe that was just a normal thing that they
would bring, I don't know.
S1 (31:54):
Yeah, they might have brought some things that were they
may not look like baskets like you have when you
put bread out at a meal, but they may have
had some woven things that they carried about with them
so they could carry things. And those may have been
the baskets that, that people had. You know, we don't
know who lived nearby and ran and got baskets. Skits
(32:17):
that there are all sorts of options. This is this
is one of those, uh, questions that people ask. And, uh.
I always want to say, you know, if if that
were important, it would have been told to us, but
(32:38):
it wasn't. I'll tell you what's important. How many people
got fed.
S6 (32:42):
Right.
S1 (32:43):
With five loaves and two fish? Right. That's the part
I think it's kind of funny when we get caught
up in where the baskets come from. I want to
know where the fish and loaves came from. That's the
amazing part, right?
S6 (32:56):
So that's more the miracle of of what was going
on and what, what we are to remember from it.
S1 (33:03):
Yeah. Uh, you know, so often, uh, I trust that
there were really baskets and they came together. Uh, we
don't want to become cynical and say, oh, this story
can't be true. Where'd they get all those baskets? I
think the harder thing to believe, but I do believe it,
is that five loaves and two fish became a meal
for 5000 plus. That's that's what really should stretch our faith.
S6 (33:27):
Yeah, yeah. Which when you think about it, is just
incredible that. Yeah, that, that that just came from, um,
this little boy's lunch and, you know, I mean, as
a mom that's reading way too much into it here,
but like, as a mom, knowing it's like, oh, I
don't know how long I'll be gone. Here's a couple
snacks or, you know, like, whatever, whoever that mom was
(33:49):
who sent him with a little snack, you know, not
knowing the impact of it. And then to have all
of the leftovers, which I think is even crazier to me, um,
that that there were so, so much leftover food.
S1 (34:04):
So, so let me tell you, I went to there
was a thing that Billy Graham did in Central Park
in New York City. It was called An Afternoon in
the Park with Billy Graham. And it was an outreach.
It wasn't a full week or anything like that. It
was just one afternoon. And they take an offering and
I'll tell you who took the offering. It was Ron
(34:26):
Hutchcraft who should be familiar to many of our Moody
radio listeners. Yeah. And Ron gets up there. And at
the time, Ron was in the New York City area,
and he gets up and I didn't know what he
was going to say. He says four words, I want
your lunch. And and, you know, everyone had brought bag
(34:52):
lunches because we were going to be in the park
all afternoon. And then what he talked about is, can
you imagine if we took your lunches, how many people
we could feed? But now think about five loaves, two fish.
And what the Lord did with that when he said
to that little boy, I want your lunch. Give it here.
(35:12):
Or one of the disciples told him. And then here's
the thing. That's amazing how God can take anything we
give him and enlarge it. If he if we take
our spiritual gifts and we say, Lord, use these. He
enlarges it. If we take our physical gifts that we
bring to him, they he can take them and enlarge them.
It's I'm not trying to be crass here, but, you know,
(35:35):
we're at the end of our fiscal year at Moody,
and we're hoping to finish in the black. And one
of the things that I could say to anyone listening,
if you gave a gift to Moody Radio, uh, or
to Moody Bible Institute friends, God can take that gift,
like those five loaves and two fish and really enlarge it. Uh,
(35:57):
and we would really, really appreciate it. So, uh, I
know you didn't expect me to say that, but I
was really thinking about it. How when we give, God
takes it and uses it in a great way.
S6 (36:07):
Yeah. So, yeah. That's great. Thank you. Did you want
to do one more or you want to do one? Okay.
S1 (36:14):
No.
S6 (36:15):
All right. Next one is from Cheryl in Ohio. Listens
to CRF. Is the Old Testament speaking to the Jewish
people only? And is the book of Romans through Philemon
only for Gentiles? She doesn't say Gentiles or Gentiles.
S1 (36:29):
Yeah. The book of Romans is predominantly written to Romans.
I'm sure there were Jewish believers in that congregation. So
it's a mixed crowd. But it's he says in Romans 11,
I'm writing to you who are Gentiles with this warning.
Don't become ignorant or don't be ignorant, or don't become
arrogant toward the branches. The the Jewish believers. So that's, uh,
(36:52):
obviously he's addressing that to Gentile believers. But the scriptures,
the oracles of God in Romans three, they are. What
advantage has the Jew great in every respect? It says
in Romans three, for to them were Given the oracles
of God. In a sense, the Jewish people became the
(37:14):
stewards of the Scripture. The Hebrew Bible. And so they
had to steward that. Even like when we're we've been
reading Eva and I and listening to sermons on Obadiah,
Obadiah is about Edom, but it wasn't written to Edom.
It was written to Israel to give Israel hope about
God's handling of Edom for what they're for, the sins
(37:35):
that they committed. And so, yeah, I think in a sense, uh, the,
the Bible teaches that the Hebrew Bible's was given to
the Jewish people, and they were the stewards of it
so that everyone can read it, Jew or Gentile, and
benefit from it. And the same thing with the book
of Romans. Uh, he specifically says in Romans 11 he's
writing to Gentiles. However, it was a mixed church, and
(37:59):
I'm sure there were Jewish people who read it as well.
S6 (38:03):
So it does not mean that we should not read
it and cannot learn and apply things from those other.
S1 (38:10):
Of.
S6 (38:10):
Course, things.
S1 (38:10):
Yeah. If the Jewish people are the stewards of the book,
they're stewarding it so that other people who aren't Jewish
can read it. That's that's the key. Yeah. So, yeah. Well,
thank you. And thank you, uh, for bringing your assistant in.
S6 (38:26):
Yes. You're welcome.
S1 (38:28):
Duncan, thanks for coming. We'll talk to you next hour.
The mailbag. Uh.
S7 (38:33):
You're welcome.
S1 (38:33):
And, uh, we're going to go right back to calls now. Uh,
if you'd like to give a call, the phone number (877) 548-3675.
We'll take your call and talk to you about your
questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. That
was Tricia McMillan and Duncan. I'm Michael Ray. We'll be
right back. Welcome back to Open Line. You know, Israel
(39:11):
is in a war that the nation didn't start, didn't want,
didn't anticipate. It came as a result of the horrific
October 7th assault by Hamas when they murdered more Jewish
people in one day since the Holocaust. And now this
has gone on for more than 600 days. And people
are wondering, what does the future hold? Well Chosen People Ministries,
(39:34):
one of our ministry partners, uh, is offering a special
book called Israel's Glorious Future. This book details God's faithfulness
to his covenant promises made to Israel in the past.
It has biblical prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the future.
God's word reveals that despite current difficulties, Israel's future is
(39:58):
certain and glorious. And if you'd like a free copy
of the book Israel's Glorious Future, just go to Open
Line Radio open line radio.org. That's our website. Open line radio.org.
Scroll down. You'll see a link that says a free
gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll
be taken to a page where you can sign up
for your very own free copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
(40:22):
And we're going to go right back to the phones,
and we're going to talk to Michael in New Jersey
listening online. Hello, Michael. How are you?
S8 (40:30):
Doctor, I don't look at your old friend Michael Cohen
from Brooklyn, uh, currently living in exile in new Jersey.
Love to you and Eva. You know, I have a
love back now I have I have ten questions, but
I'll only ask one.
S5 (40:44):
Okay, good.
S8 (40:45):
Okay. I even thought of, like, more while I was on, uh,
listening to, um. Here's my question. This always bothered me. Okay.
It's in Daniel 1013, and I almost could swear that
the same thing happened to Paul. It talks about like
a mission that Daniel had. And, um, he was delayed
for three weeks, 21 days, because there was a whole
(41:07):
fight in heaven between Michael the Archangel and the fallen
angels or whatever. You know, Satan the prince.
S1 (41:14):
The Prince of Persia. Yeah. Yeah.
S8 (41:16):
Right. But we know that that's, you know, that's really
in the spiritual realm. But yeah, it's really what was
the big you know what I mean? What was the
big deal? Like why, you know, why couldn't he just
blow him away or God, just, you know, blow him
away and that's it. Yeah. Well, the same thing happened
to Paul. I almost I'm almost. I think the same
thing happened to Paul. Maybe I'm wrong.
S1 (41:33):
Well, he asked three times for a thorn in his
flesh to be removed, and God said no. Uh, but
he did ask three times.
S5 (41:42):
No.
S8 (41:42):
Uh, okay.
S5 (41:43):
So.
S1 (41:45):
Well, here's the thing. I think, uh, Daniel ten is
a great Old Testament illustration of spiritual warfare. And Daniel
prayed and it says from the first day, verse 12,
that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before
your God. Your prayers were heard. I have become. I
(42:05):
have come because of your prayers. But the Prince of
the Kingdom of Persia opposed me for 21 days. So, uh,
Daniel prayed. God answered, but the prince. Now, this is
where we talk about in Ephesians six principalities and powers.
But behind kingdoms there are angels. Like Michael. The archangel
(42:27):
is the angel that protects Israel. And there is this
evil prince, an evil angel, fallen angel that's there with Persia,
obstructing the angel from God and the angel from God. Uh,
had to, had to call for. And after three weeks,
finally a stronger angel, Michael, came and and brought the
(42:47):
message through. So here's the thing. I think it's a
lesson about spiritual warfare that sometimes when we pray, God
is sending the answer immediately.
S5 (43:00):
Right?
S1 (43:01):
But the enemy is obstructing it. And so what do
we have to do? The Lord said we have to
pray without, uh, without losing heart. We have to persist
in prayer and not lose heart. And that's, uh, one
aspect of spiritual warfare. And the other aspect of it
is Daniel had seen a vision and he wanted to
understand it. And the angel was coming to explain the vision,
(43:25):
the vision that was revealed in Scripture. And I think
so often, uh, the the enemy wants to obstruct our
understanding of Scripture. And so we have to persist in
trying to understand what it says by reading it as
best we can. So here's what I think is interesting, Michael.
When we think of spiritual warfare, we think of kind
(43:46):
of real, uh occultic. Uh, kind of.
S5 (43:51):
Uh, right.
S1 (43:53):
Battles. But what is this one about? It's about prayer
and understanding the word. That's what it's about. And and
I think when we get discouraged and don't want to
pray because we haven't heard an answer yet, that's spiritual warfare.
It's why we have to persist in prayer. When we
don't understand the scriptures, I say, let's read it again,
because that's part of the spiritual warfare that we're undergoing
(44:15):
and ask the Holy Spirit. Ask God, through His Holy Spirit,
to open our eyes to understand truth. I think more
spiritual warfare has to do with prayer and reading Scripture
than it does with, uh, things like the movie called
The Exorcist. Do you understand?
S5 (44:32):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's much.
S1 (44:33):
Much more mundane than what people think. So, uh.
S5 (44:38):
Yeah. Anyway.
S8 (44:40):
Just one just one more second. That's a good answer.
My only thing like this is what bothers me. Okay? That, like,
when I witnessed the people. You know that not believe
whatever I always say. Like that Satan is in charge
of this world, in charge of the media. And he
makes it seem like he is, like, all powerful. And
in reality, I tell him that Satan is like a
lighted match And God is like a thousand atom bombs.
(45:01):
And I almost feel like it's a bad like witness.
Almost like to go like, hey, God. Like, why do
you present yourself? Like, it's almost like. You know what
I mean?
S1 (45:08):
Well, you know, Erwin Lutzer always says that even the
devil is God's devil. And even these things of of obstruction,
God is sovereign over that, too. And part of it is,
what does it do in Daniel's life? He persisted in
prayer for three weeks. And one of the things that
God wants us to learn, for example, when prayers are obstructed,
(45:31):
is to persist in prayer. Don't give up. When when
our understanding of Scripture is or people say, ah, you know,
I have a hard time understanding the Bible, I'm not
going to read it. No, keep reading it. Keep looking
for it. God wants us to learn persistence, staying power. Uh, perseverance.
And so often we give up too easy. And one
(45:52):
of the reasons why God allows this kind of spiritual
warfare is to develop staying power in us in our
walk with the Lord. That's the only way we can grow.
So don't think that God's losing. He's got a plan,
even when this kind of thing happens. Does that help?
S8 (46:06):
Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you, I love you.
Love to.
S5 (46:09):
Love you.
S1 (46:09):
To talk to you later. Uh, well, friends, that's that's
the first hour of Open Line. I can't believe it's
gone so quickly, but there's a second hour of Open
line coming up on most of these stations. If you
don't get it on your station, you can always listen on, uh,
the website. Or you can get the Moody Radio app,
or you can get the podcast. I hope you'll do
(46:30):
one of those. Go to our website, online radio.org. That
page has all the links you're looking for, whether it's
linked to the Israel trip that I'm doing in September
or our current resource, or how to become a kitchen
table partner. You'll find it there. Stay with us. Second
hour of Open Line is coming up straight ahead. Open
line with Doctor Michael Melnick is the production of Moody Radio,
(46:51):
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
What is the shortest distance between two points? Well, geometry
tells us it's always a straight line, but with God,
that could be really different. Stay with me and we'll
talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome
to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My
(00:30):
name is Michael Riedel. I'm the academic dean and a
professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
I am so grateful to be joining you around the
radio kitchen table. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God,
and the spiritual life. If you have a question and
you'd like to call, now is the time. The phone
(00:50):
number here is (877) 548-3675. Let me give that to you
one more time. You can write it down if you like. (877) 548-3675.
Tricia McMillan is our producer. Omar Mendoza is our tech
(01:11):
guy handling all these, handling the board and all things technical. Rihanna.
Rihanna and Ananda are answering the phones today. Again, the
phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me tell you what happened this morning.
(01:31):
I was. In Akron area last night at an event
for Moody Bible Institute. I went to bed as soon
as the event was over. Got up at 330 in
the morning to head back to my home so I
would be here a couple of hours before the program
began to go to the. I have an in-home studio.
(01:52):
That's where I was going to be doing the program from.
And everything was on target. I actually I set the
the the map program in my car and it said
I would arrive at 8:30 a.m. at 825. I was
five minutes from my home and there was a road closure.
(02:15):
And so I thought, okay, I'll just go around the
block and go to this other part to enter the
road there. Nope. Close there. Uh, the very first road closure,
I said, I'm not sure where to go from here.
And the people there at the road closure because there's
a triathlon going on. They said, we don't care because
I said I didn't know where to go. They said,
we don't care. I thought that was a funny answer.
(02:37):
Then I tried another route to get into the the street,
and there was a police car there blocking off the traffic.
And I went to the police officer and I asked
him about how am I supposed to get to my
home if this road is closed? And he kind of
looked at me funny and he said, you know, you
really can't get there from here. And I thought, what
(02:58):
do you mean? I can't get there from here? And
I had to drive about 45 minutes around the town
I live. I never knew where I was going. I'd
go one place and there'd be a road closure. I'd
go another place, and there was a road closure. It
took me 45 minutes to make that five minute trip.
And it made me think of a message I had
(03:20):
heard many, many years ago by Don Sinukuan, who is
a professor of preaching out at Talbot School of Theology.
When he taught at Dallas, he gave a message that
was called the shortest distance between two points is a
zig zag. And he talked about the wilderness wandering in
(03:42):
particular when Israel first left Egypt, how instead of taking
the people in Exodus 13, God says, I won't take them.
Verses 17 through 19 on the the fastest, quickest route
because they'll see they'll have to come up through Philistine
territory to go to the Promised Land, and they'll be afraid,
and they won't want to make that trip. And so
I'm going to take them down by the Red sea.
(04:04):
He took them on a zigzag if you follow the route,
and that was what was best for them. And then
today I certainly had a zigzag route to my home.
It made me so anxious because I really needed to
get home so I could be here to do the program.
(04:26):
But I kept thinking, as long as I keep my focus,
I will be able to get home. As long as
I keep the goal in sight. As long as I
keep my address in the Google Maps program, I will
be able to get home. And it sure took me
a while. But I did get home. It took me
(04:46):
a zigzag, but I got home and that made me
think of our walk with the Lord. That sometimes we
want to go on the fastest route. However, God has
better plans for us. Alternate ways that will get us
home to the goal safely get us to where we
need to be safely, but not the most. Not the
(05:09):
quickest way. Just the way that he deems best for us.
And we won't always know why. That is why God
wants to do it that way instead of another way.
And I thought, that's a great reminder for us, because
on our walk with the Lord, there's going to be roadblocks.
There's going to be obstructions. They're going to be. Holes
(05:32):
in the potholes in the ground, all sorts of things
that will change our direction in with our walk. And
it's not because God doesn't have our best interests at heart.
It's because he knows what we need and where we
need to be. But how do we get to the goal,
even with the obstructions, even with the difficulties? It also
made me think of Hebrews chapter 12, verses one and two.
(05:55):
It says, therefore, since we have such a large cloud
of witnesses surrounding us, let us lay aside every weight
and the sin that so easily ensnares us. And then
here's what it says let us run with endurance the
race that lies before us, keeping our eyes on Jesus,
the source and perfecter of our faith. And that's what
(06:19):
I kept thinking of this morning, because I had the goal,
the object before my eyes, my home address. That's where
I needed to go. And there are all sorts of turns,
all sorts of obstructions, all sorts of ways to get here, detours.
But because I kept my eye on the goal, because
(06:40):
I fixed my eye on that, I was able to
get here. And the same thing in our walk with
the Lord. No matter what the zig zag is, no
matter what the detour, whatever the obstruction, the difficulty we face.
This passage reminds us that we need to keep our
eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus, who is the source
and perfecter of our faith, and that will bring us
(07:02):
home in the fastest in God's timing. The best way
for us. And that's the great reminder that I had
this morning on my excitement on the roads. Before we
(07:27):
go to the phones, I want to mention that we
have a really great resource this this month. You know,
people wonder all the time, what kind of books do
I need to have? Well, I think it's great that
we build a basic library, and our current resource is
one of those books that we need to have. It's
(07:48):
a Bible dictionary when you wonder who are these people
in the Bible? I just looked up this person I
don't know. Or where is this place that's mentioned? Or
what's this event that's cited? What's this holiday holiday that's
being spoken of? If you have a Bible dictionary, you
can look it up. And so when you give a
gift of any size this month to open line, we'd
(08:09):
like to say thanks by sending you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary.
It's published by B and H, the same publisher that
produced the Holman CSB. My favorite Bible translation, the Ultimate
Bible Dictionary, is easy to carry. It's small, it's easy
to use. It's just a great resource. And if you'd
like a copy, it's yours. When you give a gift
(08:31):
of any size. If you'd like to give a gift,
go to our website openlibrary.org. You can give there, or
you can call (888) 644-7122. That's (888) 644-7122. I hope you'll do this.
I love this resource. Uh, we're going to talk with
(08:52):
Jeff in Indiana right now listening on WGN. Welcome to
Open Line, Jeff. How can I help you?
S2 (08:59):
Good morning. Michael. Um, my question is on Isaiah 57
one and two. It says the righteous man perishes and
no one lays it to heart. Devout men are taken
away while no one understands. For the righteous man is
taken away from calamity. He enters into peace. They rest
in their beds, who walk in their uprightness. Some of
(09:19):
the translations I read talk about children in this passage
instead of men. Is it talking about young people dying
before their time or. I just need some direction. Please.
S1 (09:31):
I need to look up that verse in the Hebrew.
Hang on a second here. I'm, uh, turning to Isaiah 57.
In the Hebrew, uh, in verse one. Uh. Well, uh,
where it says the righteous man perishes. It doesn't say, uh,
(09:57):
man or child. It says the righteous perish and no
man takes it to heart. And I don't think it
gives you age. Let me see the second usage. Uh.
The righteous man for the righteous is taken away from evil.
(10:19):
Same thing. The righteous. It should be translated, the righteous person. Uh. And, uh,
he enters into peace. It's not about age. It's. It's
about character. Uh, so here's what I would say. The
peace that a person, it doesn't matter their age. But
(10:40):
we often think that people have to live a long life.
God takes us at the right time in his hands.
Life and death. He knows the right time. And that's
if we know the Lord. That's when we enter into peace.
You know, there's a reason this is called the Veil
of Tears. There's some challenges about living now. I want
to live a long life, and I'm grateful for every
(11:02):
year that I have. I'm grateful for being with my family. Uh,
I almost died, uh, quite early, about 20 years ago,
a little earlier than I anticipated. Anticipated. And I was
so grateful when I didn't. And I remember calling my
friend and saying, wow, I'm so happy to be alive.
He said, oh, you'd be happier dead. And I thought, well,
(11:24):
that's really true because I'd be with the Lord. But
God had purposes for me to be here. Um, I
thought my wife still needs me. My kids maybe. Don't know,
but they needed me still. And, uh, there are things
I still had to do for him. And so God
knew the timing, and he spared my life. But for
(11:45):
any person that goes to be with the Lord, that's
the right time. And that's what this is saying, that
they rest in their beds, each one who walked in
his upright way, he enters into peace or she enters
into peace. It's God's timing that is best. That's what
that verse is about. Gives us encouragement about knowing that
when we go to be with him, it's the right time,
(12:08):
don't you think?
S2 (12:10):
Yes. Thank you.
S1 (12:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for your call. Really appreciate it. Uh,
we're going to take a break here, and when we
come back, we'll take more of your calls. The phone
number (877) 548-3675. That's (877) 548-3675. Give us a call with your
question about the Bible, God or the spiritual life. This
(12:33):
is open line with Michael Ray. We'll be right back.
So stay with us. And we're back. My name is
(12:58):
Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line, and we
talk about your questions about the Bible, God and the
spiritual life. And I am so glad to see our
team here. Tricia McMillan is our producer and Omar is here.
I appreciate I, I see them on the screen. They
smile at me when I mention their names. I always
(13:19):
like that. Uh, they're really part of the team. And
one of the things I really appreciate is that when
people write to the program, they so often tell me
how much they appreciate the whole team and everyone that participates, uh,
whether it's phone screeners, engineers, producers, no matter who it is,
(13:39):
they recognize that this is not a one man operation.
It's a team. And the team is pretty broad because
without listeners calling in with their questions, well, we wouldn't
have a program at all. They're part of the team
as well, and every listener who benefits grows in their
walk with the Lord and their understanding of the word.
They're part of the team as well. And then there
(14:00):
are some really special people who are part of the
team because they have become kitchen table partners. I so
appreciate them. Uh, every one of them who give monthly,
they give monthly so that we can be on the
air every week, uh, teaching and studying the word together.
And as a special thank you for them. What we
(14:21):
do is Trish and I produce a Bible study moment
every other week. It's a audio Bible study designed exclusively
for our kitchen table partners. Get it in the in
your email. Click on it. Get to listen. It's about
ten minutes long. And I think it's just a way
of us saying thanks. We appreciate you so much. We
want to encourage you with the word. And if you're
(14:43):
listening and you may have given a gift occasionally, uh,
if there's a resource that you're interested in or you
may have never even given before, but you appreciate the program,
if that's something that you want to continue, perhaps you'll
consider becoming a kitchen table partner as well. That's pretty
easy to do. All you have to do is call
(15:04):
8886447122886447122 or go to open line radio.org. And you too
can become a kitchen table partner. If you even think
about it, we'd really appreciate it. We're going to talk
with Scott in Havelock, North Carolina listening on. Welcome to
(15:26):
Open Line. Scott. How can I help you today?
S3 (15:31):
Good morning Michael. Um, my question revolves around the verse
that says, uh, absent from the body present with the
Lord when we die as a Christian, um, when our
soul actually departs and goes to the Lord. Do you
think that at that time we're conscious and we know
(15:55):
that we're with the Lord? Or are we still basically
sleeping until the rapture?
S1 (16:01):
What? Why would you think we're sleeping till the rapture?
S3 (16:08):
Well, I don't know. I've heard, you know, so many
things that say, you know, we're sleeping until the Lord
comes back. But then I hear absent from the body
present with the Lord. So I'm. I mean, I'm thinking
that our eternity in heaven begins at the moment that
(16:29):
we die.
S1 (16:31):
So I'm pressing you a little bit here, Scott. My
friend Scott, this is what I want to know. Why?
Where have you heard that? We're sleeping and not conscious.
S3 (16:46):
Well, I think it was, if I remember correctly. Um.
I can't think of his name. Um.
S1 (16:57):
So it's a a preacher. Is that what you mean,
a preacher or a teacher or something like that? Okay.
S3 (17:03):
Yeah, it was a it was a preacher. No, it
was a preacher. Yeah. Um.
S1 (17:07):
Well, let me tell you where that misunderstanding comes from.
You're absolutely right. Absent from the body. Present with the Lord.
Even think about Lazarus. Uh, who? When he died, he
was utterly conscious of where he was being comforted by Abraham. Uh,
and even, uh, his the rich man, even though he
(17:30):
wasn't with the Lord, he was conscious of what was
going on. I know that's a parable, but it's a
reflection of reality. So of course we're conscious when we're
present with the Lord. The. The basis of this idea
of soul sleep until the resurrection is from first Thessalonians 413,
because it keeps using the word asleep as a euphemism
(17:52):
for death. It says, for we do not want you
to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so
that you will not grieve like the rest who have
no hope. And then it says, God will bring with
him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. And then
it says in verse 15, we will certainly have no
advantage over those who have fallen asleep. Why? Because the
(18:15):
dead in Christ will rise first, and then we who
are still alive will be caught up together with them
in the clouds. And so they fail to understand that
this is just a euphemism for physical death. And so
when it says we're asleep, the reason it says that
is because when we look at a dead body, We
(18:35):
can see that that dead body looks like they're asleep.
And so that's why Paul uses that gentler term rather
than dead. He uses the word asleep. But here's the
little clue that a lot of people miss. Now, this
is talking about the return of the Lord at the rapture. Right? Uh,
that the dead in Christ will rise first, the dead
(18:56):
in the Messiah rise first, and then we who remain
will be caught up. Snatched. That's the word that, uh,
u is used there that we get the word rapture
from in Latin, but we're caught up, uh, or snatch.
I call that the great snatch. But back in verse 14,
(19:19):
here's what it says. Since we believe that Jesus died
and rose again in the same way, God will bring
with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. So
the depiction there is when we die. Our immaterial part,
the spiritual part of us goes to be with the Lord,
(19:40):
and we're conscious of it. When he descends, he will
descend with us, with those who have died with their spirits,
and then their bodies will be resurrected and reunite right
there up as the Lord descends from heaven. That's when
we will be resurrected. The resurrection isn't a wake up
(20:01):
from sleep. It's a reunion, a reunification of our immaterial
part with our material part. That's what happens at the
rapture for members of the body. Uh, the the of
of Messiah. Okay, that's what's going on there. And that's
where the misunderstanding comes in. Here's what what I find
(20:21):
people do is very often people who are teaching things
that aren't accurate. They pick one verse, they misinterpret it,
and they ignore the rest of Scripture. The rest of
Scripture we have is that when someone dies, they go
to be with the Lord and they're conscious of it.
And that's what Philippians one says. Paul says that to
(20:42):
live is Messiah, to die is gain. He says it
would be better if he could for him, if he
could go to be with the Lord. But he needed
to remain for the sake of the Philippians and the
ministry he had with them. Second Corinthians five absent from
the body is present with the Lord. So yeah, you
got that right. But it's the immaterial part of us
(21:03):
that goes to be with the Lord. It's conscious. And
then when the resurrection happens at the rapture, the physical
body is resurrected and reunited with that immaterial part, the spirit.
And that's what happens. There's a great reunification that happens
at the resurrection. Does that help, Scott?
S3 (21:24):
Awesome. Thank you so much.
S1 (21:26):
Yeah. Great. I'm so glad. And by the way, this
is I think we missed the point. People argue about
the rapture, they argue about soul sleep, which they shouldn't.
Here's the thing that so often when people lose someone
they love, they fall into the depths of despair. Their
grief is so intense. I completely understand that. But we
(21:52):
also need to remember that if that person knew the Lord,
that there's going to be that great reunion, not just
of the immaterial part with the material, but of all
of us together, whether we are alive or whether we're asleep.
We're all going to be together forever with the Lord.
There's going to be a great reunion. And that's why
the passage says, we don't grieve as those who have
(22:15):
no hope. If we had no hope, our grief would
be far worse. But we have hope. It's not that
we don't grieve, but our our grief is mixed with
hope of a great reunion one day, and that gives
us a great deal of comfort. Okay. Okay. Thanks for
your call, Scott. We're going to talk to Robert in
(22:35):
Fort Lauderdale. Listening on. Welcome to Open Line, Robert. How
can I help you today?
S4 (22:42):
Hi. Um. Yeah, my question is, I was right. I
was reading judges this morning, and in judges chapter ten, uh,
it talks about, uh, uh, Israel going after other gods.
(23:03):
And in verse 13 it says, I will, uh, God says,
I will deliver you no more. And then, um, he
also says in verse 14, let them deliver you in
the time of your distress. Then God changes his mind.
In verse 16, he says he could bear the misery
of Israel no longer. And in verse 16, my question is, uh,
(23:27):
they put away the foreign gods from among them and
served the Lord. If that repentance was so sincere, why? Uh,
I don't know if you have an answer for it,
or I just want your commentary on it. Why did
Israel not just destroy those gods and serve the Lord?
(23:49):
It says in the Scripture, it says they just put
them away. Meaning to me as they put them on
a shelf. So when they feel like it, they have
access to them again.
S1 (23:59):
Well, you actually don't know how they put them away,
nor do I. It could be that they smashed them
and that's how they put them away. It could be
that they buried them and that's how they put them away. Uh,
it depends on how easy or hard it would be
to to destroy them. And it seems to me that
(24:20):
the word put away means they got rid of them.
And it could be they got rid of them through destruction.
Or it could be they got rid of them through burial.
It could be they got rid of them by throwing
them in the river. I don't know how they got
rid of them, but. But they got rid of them. Okay.
S5 (24:35):
Okay. Right. Yeah.
S1 (24:38):
I'm not, I'm not. I don't think this means they
they put them on the shelf to wait for the
time where they can pull them out again. That doesn't
seem to be what the text is saying.
S5 (24:48):
Uh, okay. So. Okay. All right. Thank you. Good, good.
S1 (24:54):
I'm so glad. Thanks for your call. Hey, uh, one
of the really fun things that we're going to do
is I am going to go to Israel in September,
September 7th through the 18th. And when I go, uh,
we have a group of people. There's only a few
spots left. And today or this week is the last week, uh,
(25:15):
that we have this trip open. So if you are interested,
I think we only have like 4 or 5 spots
left on this trip. If you're interested in joining me,
it's safe. Uh, the best place to go is go
to open line radio.org. Scroll down. You'll see a link
to my personal web page if you'd like to join
us this September in Israel, we'd love to have you
(25:36):
join us. There's only a few spots left, so don't
miss out on very little time. Uh, stick with us.
We're going to come back with the mailbag in just
a moment. Uh, you're listening to Open Line with Michael Ray.
Stay with us. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
(26:09):
Open Line. It's time for the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company mailbag.
The Febc mailbag. I'm so grateful for Febc because they
partner with Open Line to bring you the weekly Febc mailbag.
Febc is a wonderful organization. It brings the gospel to
people through media and also personal engagement. You should really
(26:34):
check out this ministry. It's febc. And when you're there,
you can find their podcast. It's called Until All I've
Heard featuring Ed Cannon. I know you're going to love it,
so check out febc. And joining me right now with
the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. Hey, Tricia. Hello. Well,
(26:56):
I see you brought a partner today. Someone to work
with you.
S6 (26:59):
I did, I brought a special program observer today. It
is my ten year old son, Duncan. Duncan loves the Bible.
And so I said you should write up a question.
And he was like, okay, so he's got five. We're
not going to ask five. Um, but but that's.
S1 (27:15):
Going to be a special program.
S6 (27:17):
He's my Bible reader and knows knows the Bible. And
so even the questions he came up with Just off
the top of his head were, um, ones that often
adults will call in with. And so I was like, okay,
that's great. Yeah.
S1 (27:30):
That's great. Hey, Duncan, how are you doing?
S7 (27:33):
I'm doing good.
S1 (27:35):
Good. I'm glad. I'm glad you're there. Uh, it's always
fun when, uh, when, uh, your mom brings in one
of the kids, and usually it's Annie. So today it's you, Duncan.
That's pretty exciting. Uh, is this your first time coming
to open line?
S7 (27:53):
Yes, I think it is.
S1 (27:55):
Yeah. And what grade are you in, Duncan?
S7 (27:57):
Um, I'm going into fifth grade.
S1 (28:00):
You just finished fourth?
S7 (28:02):
Yep.
S1 (28:03):
Wow. That's pretty exciting. Do you have any big plans
for the summer?
S7 (28:08):
Well, we're going to Tennessee this summer.
S1 (28:11):
Oh. That's great. You're going to have a lot of
fun there. That's a lot of fun. Well, why don't
you go ahead and ask your question?
S7 (28:18):
Uh, my first question is, why did Jesus speak in
parables instead of just telling them?
S5 (28:25):
Well.
S1 (28:28):
I think that sometimes we forget that so much of
the Bible is in story form. Now they're true stories,
but they're its story form. And I think it's because people,
for the most part, learn best. Historically, we know this
through stories. And so the the Lord starts telling stories
(28:50):
in the book of Matthew starting in Matthew 13. And
parables are true to life stories with a spiritual message.
And in verse 11 of, well, let's start with verse ten.
I think it's interesting because the disciples asked the very
same question you asked Duncan. It says in verse ten,
(29:12):
the disciples came up and asked him, why do you
speak to them in parables? Don't you think that's interesting?
They're asking the very same question that you are asking.
And the Lord answered them, because the secrets of the
kingdom of heaven have been given for you to know.
But it's not been given to them, for whoever has
(29:36):
more will be given to him. And the one and
he will have more than enough. But whoever does not
have even what he has will be taken away from him.
So here's the point the Lord makes. One of the
reasons that he speaks in parables is to reveal the
truth to people who are open. It helps us if
we're open to him, if we are listening to him,
(29:57):
if we want to learn from him. He tells the story,
these true to life stories, and it makes the spiritual
truth seem all the more real, all the better. But
if a person doesn't want to hear from the Lord,
it's got a closed mind. They think, what are all
these silly stories? And they don't want to hear them.
(30:17):
And it conceals the truth that hides it from them.
So the point of parables is to make it easier
for people like you and hopefully like you. I know
it's like your mom, hopefully for me that because we
love the Lord, we hear the stories and we learn
from them and we grow. But if a person doesn't
love the Lord and they're kind of cynical, what happens
(30:41):
is they hear the story and they think that's a
silly story. I'm even going to bother with it and
the truth is hidden from them. So that's the point.
It either reveals the truth or conceals the truth that
either explains the truth or it hides the truth. It
depends on our heart and how we receive the truth. Okay.
S7 (31:00):
Okay.
S1 (31:02):
Good. That's. That was a really great question. Uh. Thank you. Tricia.
Did anyone else have any questions?
S6 (31:08):
Yes, we did have a couple others. One of them
is from Shirley, who wrote us on Facebook and wanted
to know where the apostles got the baskets for the
food at the feeding of the 5000.
S1 (31:22):
Mhm. They probably went to target.
S6 (31:24):
I'm.
S1 (31:24):
Guessing. I don't know.
S6 (31:26):
Well what I realized with this question is it can
seem like this is just a thing of curiosity. However,
knowing how people lived at that time, it, it seems
like it would have been more likely that in the
same way that people today may just carry a large
purse or a backpack and they just carry them around
with them, that maybe they just had baskets with them,
(31:50):
like maybe that was just a normal thing that they
would bring, I don't know.
S1 (31:54):
Yeah, they might have brought some things that were they
may not look like baskets like you have when you
put bread out at a meal, but they may have
had some woven things that they carried about with them
so they could carry things. And those may have been
the baskets that, that people had. You know, we don't
know who lived nearby and ran and got baskets. Skits
(32:17):
that there are all sorts of options. This is this
is one of those, uh, questions that people ask. And, uh.
I always want to say, you know, if if that
were important, it would have been told to us, but
(32:38):
it wasn't. I'll tell you what's important. How many people
got fed.
S6 (32:42):
Right.
S1 (32:43):
With five loaves and two fish? Right. That's the part
I think it's kind of funny when we get caught
up in where the baskets come from. I want to
know where the fish and loaves came from. That's the
amazing part, right?
S6 (32:56):
So that's more the miracle of of what was going
on and what, what we are to remember from it.
S1 (33:03):
Yeah. Uh, you know, so often, uh, I trust that
there were really baskets and they came together. Uh, we
don't want to become cynical and say, oh, this story
can't be true. Where'd they get all those baskets? I
think the harder thing to believe, but I do believe it,
is that five loaves and two fish became a meal
for 5000 plus. That's that's what really should stretch our faith.
S6 (33:27):
Yeah, yeah. Which when you think about it, is just
incredible that. Yeah, that, that that just came from, um,
this little boy's lunch and, you know, I mean, as
a mom that's reading way too much into it here,
but like, as a mom, knowing it's like, oh, I
don't know how long I'll be gone. Here's a couple
snacks or, you know, like, whatever, whoever that mom was
(33:49):
who sent him with a little snack, you know, not
knowing the impact of it. And then to have all
of the leftovers, which I think is even crazier to me, um,
that that there were so, so much leftover food.
S1 (34:04):
So, so let me tell you, I went to there
was a thing that Billy Graham did in Central Park
in New York City. It was called An Afternoon in
the Park with Billy Graham. And it was an outreach.
It wasn't a full week or anything like that. It
was just one afternoon. And they take an offering and
I'll tell you who took the offering. It was Ron
(34:26):
Hutchcraft who should be familiar to many of our Moody
radio listeners. Yeah. And Ron gets up there. And at
the time, Ron was in the New York City area,
and he gets up and I didn't know what he
was going to say. He says four words, I want
your lunch. And and, you know, everyone had brought bag
(34:52):
lunches because we were going to be in the park
all afternoon. And then what he talked about is, can
you imagine if we took your lunches, how many people
we could feed? But now think about five loaves, two fish.
And what the Lord did with that when he said
to that little boy, I want your lunch. Give it here.
(35:12):
Or one of the disciples told him. And then here's
the thing. That's amazing how God can take anything we
give him and enlarge it. If he if we take
our spiritual gifts and we say, Lord, use these. He
enlarges it. If we take our physical gifts that we
bring to him, they he can take them and enlarge them.
It's I'm not trying to be crass here, but, you know,
(35:35):
we're at the end of our fiscal year at Moody,
and we're hoping to finish in the black. And one
of the things that I could say to anyone listening,
if you gave a gift to Moody Radio, uh, or
to Moody Bible Institute friends, God can take that gift,
like those five loaves and two fish and really enlarge it. Uh,
(35:57):
and we would really, really appreciate it. So, uh, I
know you didn't expect me to say that, but I
was really thinking about it. How when we give, God
takes it and uses it in a great way.
S6 (36:07):
Yeah. So, yeah. That's great. Thank you. Did you want
to do one more or you want to do one? Okay.
S1 (36:14):
No.
S6 (36:15):
All right. Next one is from Cheryl in Ohio. Listens
to CRF. Is the Old Testament speaking to the Jewish
people only? And is the book of Romans through Philemon
only for Gentiles? She doesn't say Gentiles or Gentiles.
S1 (36:29):
Yeah. The book of Romans is predominantly written to Romans.
I'm sure there were Jewish believers in that congregation. So
it's a mixed crowd. But it's he says in Romans 11,
I'm writing to you who are Gentiles with this warning.
Don't become ignorant or don't be ignorant, or don't become
arrogant toward the branches. The the Jewish believers. So that's, uh,
(36:52):
obviously he's addressing that to Gentile believers. But the scriptures,
the oracles of God in Romans three, they are. What
advantage has the Jew great in every respect? It says
in Romans three, for to them were Given the oracles
of God. In a sense, the Jewish people became the
(37:14):
stewards of the Scripture. The Hebrew Bible. And so they
had to steward that. Even like when we're we've been
reading Eva and I and listening to sermons on Obadiah,
Obadiah is about Edom, but it wasn't written to Edom.
It was written to Israel to give Israel hope about
God's handling of Edom for what they're for, the sins
(37:35):
that they committed. And so, yeah, I think in a sense, uh, the,
the Bible teaches that the Hebrew Bible's was given to
the Jewish people, and they were the stewards of it
so that everyone can read it, Jew or Gentile, and
benefit from it. And the same thing with the book
of Romans. Uh, he specifically says in Romans 11 he's
writing to Gentiles. However, it was a mixed church, and
(37:59):
I'm sure there were Jewish people who read it as well.
S6 (38:03):
So it does not mean that we should not read
it and cannot learn and apply things from those other.
S1 (38:10):
Of.
S6 (38:10):
Course, things.
S1 (38:10):
Yeah. If the Jewish people are the stewards of the book,
they're stewarding it so that other people who aren't Jewish
can read it. That's that's the key. Yeah. So, yeah. Well,
thank you. And thank you, uh, for bringing your assistant in.
S6 (38:26):
Yes. You're welcome.
S1 (38:28):
Duncan, thanks for coming. We'll talk to you next hour.
The mailbag. Uh.
S7 (38:33):
You're welcome.
S1 (38:33):
And, uh, we're going to go right back to calls now. Uh,
if you'd like to give a call, the phone number (877) 548-3675.
We'll take your call and talk to you about your
questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. That
was Tricia McMillan and Duncan. I'm Michael Ray. We'll be
right back. Welcome back to Open Line. You know, Israel
(39:11):
is in a war that the nation didn't start, didn't want,
didn't anticipate. It came as a result of the horrific
October 7th assault by Hamas when they murdered more Jewish
people in one day since the Holocaust. And now this
has gone on for more than 600 days. And people
are wondering, what does the future hold? Well Chosen People Ministries,
(39:34):
one of our ministry partners, uh, is offering a special
book called Israel's Glorious Future. This book details God's faithfulness
to his covenant promises made to Israel in the past.
It has biblical prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the future.
God's word reveals that despite current difficulties, Israel's future is
(39:58):
certain and glorious. And if you'd like a free copy
of the book Israel's Glorious Future, just go to Open
Line Radio open line radio.org. That's our website. Open line radio.org.
Scroll down. You'll see a link that says a free
gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll
be taken to a page where you can sign up
for your very own free copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
(40:22):
And we're going to go right back to the phones,
and we're going to talk to Michael in New Jersey
listening online. Hello, Michael. How are you?
S8 (40:30):
Doctor, I don't look at your old friend Michael Cohen
from Brooklyn, uh, currently living in exile in new Jersey.
Love to you and Eva. You know, I have a
love back now I have I have ten questions, but
I'll only ask one.
S5 (40:44):
Okay, good.
S8 (40:45):
Okay. I even thought of, like, more while I was on, uh,
listening to, um. Here's my question. This always bothered me. Okay.
It's in Daniel 1013, and I almost could swear that
the same thing happened to Paul. It talks about like
a mission that Daniel had. And, um, he was delayed
for three weeks, 21 days, because there was a whole
(41:07):
fight in heaven between Michael the Archangel and the fallen
angels or whatever. You know, Satan the prince.
S1 (41:14):
The Prince of Persia. Yeah. Yeah.
S8 (41:16):
Right. But we know that that's, you know, that's really
in the spiritual realm. But yeah, it's really what was
the big you know what I mean? What was the
big deal? Like why, you know, why couldn't he just
blow him away or God, just, you know, blow him
away and that's it. Yeah. Well, the same thing happened
to Paul. I almost I'm almost. I think the same
thing happened to Paul. Maybe I'm wrong.
S1 (41:33):
Well, he asked three times for a thorn in his
flesh to be removed, and God said no. Uh, but
he did ask three times.
S5 (41:42):
No.
S8 (41:42):
Uh, okay.
S5 (41:43):
So.
S1 (41:45):
Well, here's the thing. I think, uh, Daniel ten is
a great Old Testament illustration of spiritual warfare. And Daniel
prayed and it says from the first day, verse 12,
that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before
your God. Your prayers were heard. I have become. I
(42:05):
have come because of your prayers. But the Prince of
the Kingdom of Persia opposed me for 21 days. So, uh,
Daniel prayed. God answered, but the prince. Now, this is
where we talk about in Ephesians six principalities and powers.
But behind kingdoms there are angels. Like Michael. The archangel
(42:27):
is the angel that protects Israel. And there is this
evil prince, an evil angel, fallen angel that's there with Persia,
obstructing the angel from God and the angel from God. Uh,
had to, had to call for. And after three weeks,
finally a stronger angel, Michael, came and and brought the
(42:47):
message through. So here's the thing. I think it's a
lesson about spiritual warfare that sometimes when we pray, God
is sending the answer immediately.
S5 (43:00):
Right?
S1 (43:01):
But the enemy is obstructing it. And so what do
we have to do? The Lord said we have to
pray without, uh, without losing heart. We have to persist
in prayer and not lose heart. And that's, uh, one
aspect of spiritual warfare. And the other aspect of it
is Daniel had seen a vision and he wanted to
understand it. And the angel was coming to explain the vision,
(43:25):
the vision that was revealed in Scripture. And I think
so often, uh, the the enemy wants to obstruct our
understanding of Scripture. And so we have to persist in
trying to understand what it says by reading it as
best we can. So here's what I think is interesting, Michael.
When we think of spiritual warfare, we think of kind
(43:46):
of real, uh occultic. Uh, kind of.
S5 (43:51):
Uh, right.
S1 (43:53):
Battles. But what is this one about? It's about prayer
and understanding the word. That's what it's about. And and
I think when we get discouraged and don't want to
pray because we haven't heard an answer yet, that's spiritual warfare.
It's why we have to persist in prayer. When we
don't understand the scriptures, I say, let's read it again,
because that's part of the spiritual warfare that we're undergoing
(44:15):
and ask the Holy Spirit. Ask God, through His Holy Spirit,
to open our eyes to understand truth. I think more
spiritual warfare has to do with prayer and reading Scripture
than it does with, uh, things like the movie called
The Exorcist. Do you understand?
S5 (44:32):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's much.
S1 (44:33):
Much more mundane than what people think. So, uh.
S5 (44:38):
Yeah. Anyway.
S8 (44:40):
Just one just one more second. That's a good answer.
My only thing like this is what bothers me. Okay? That, like,
when I witnessed the people. You know that not believe
whatever I always say. Like that Satan is in charge
of this world, in charge of the media. And he
makes it seem like he is, like, all powerful. And
in reality, I tell him that Satan is like a
lighted match And God is like a thousand atom bombs.
(45:01):
And I almost feel like it's a bad like witness.
Almost like to go like, hey, God. Like, why do
you present yourself? Like, it's almost like. You know what
I mean?
S1 (45:08):
Well, you know, Erwin Lutzer always says that even the
devil is God's devil. And even these things of of obstruction,
God is sovereign over that, too. And part of it is,
what does it do in Daniel's life? He persisted in
prayer for three weeks. And one of the things that
God wants us to learn, for example, when prayers are obstructed,
(45:31):
is to persist in prayer. Don't give up. When when
our understanding of Scripture is or people say, ah, you know,
I have a hard time understanding the Bible, I'm not
going to read it. No, keep reading it. Keep looking
for it. God wants us to learn persistence, staying power. Uh, perseverance.
And so often we give up too easy. And one
(45:52):
of the reasons why God allows this kind of spiritual
warfare is to develop staying power in us in our
walk with the Lord. That's the only way we can grow.
So don't think that God's losing. He's got a plan,
even when this kind of thing happens. Does that help?
S8 (46:06):
Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you, I love you.
Love to.
S5 (46:09):
Love you.
S1 (46:09):
To talk to you later. Uh, well, friends, that's that's
the first hour of Open Line. I can't believe it's
gone so quickly, but there's a second hour of Open
line coming up on most of these stations. If you
don't get it on your station, you can always listen on, uh,
the website. Or you can get the Moody Radio app,
or you can get the podcast. I hope you'll do
(46:30):
one of those. Go to our website, online radio.org. That
page has all the links you're looking for, whether it's
linked to the Israel trip that I'm doing in September
or our current resource, or how to become a kitchen
table partner. You'll find it there. Stay with us. Second
hour of Open Line is coming up straight ahead. Open
line with Doctor Michael Melnick is the production of Moody Radio,
(46:51):
a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
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