March 15, 2025 • 46 mins
It's time to tackle the Mailbag again on Open Line with Dr. Michael Rydelnik, MBI professor Eva Rydelnik, and Open Line producer Tricia McMillan. Tune in for great discussion and study on Hebrews 6 and other questions you've sent us.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:08):
Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
Line with Doctor Michael Radonich Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America.
We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
the spiritual life. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick, professor of Jewish
studies at Moody Bible Institute, and we are broadcasting from
Moody's downtown Chicago campus. If you have a Bible question today,
(00:31):
don't phone in. It's a special all mailbag, all the
time program. But you can write your question to Open line@moody.edu,
or you can post it on Twitter. Our handle is
at openline Radio1. Or you can like us on Facebook.
And while you're there, you can post your question on
the Open Line Radio Facebook page. It's probably the easiest.
(00:51):
Just go to our website, openline radio.org, and that website
has links to everything you're looking for, even links to email,
Facebook and Twitter. Joining me today in studio is Eva Radulovic.
She is my colleague on the faculty of Moody Bible Institute.
She is co-contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary. And she's
been my wife for lo these many years. And we,
(01:14):
I should say, I've been her husband all these years.
Let's get it right, you know. And also managing questions
is mailbag expert producer of Open Line. Tricia McMillan. Welcome.
Glad we're all together.
S2 (01:27):
Me too.
S1 (01:27):
Yeah.
S3 (01:28):
So being here around the radio kitchen table in person is, like,
even more fun than listening at home.
S1 (01:33):
That's right.
S3 (01:34):
So maybe, like, a lot of people just come down
and be with us.
S1 (01:36):
Yeah.
S2 (01:37):
Well, they are great. They are.
S1 (01:38):
They're listening in. That's right. So, well, let's keep our
Bibles open and let's get a second cup of coffee,
because we're going to go right back to your questions.
And Tricia has got a lot of them we've got
to cover.
S2 (01:49):
Yeah. And we're going to dive in this one in
this next question. Um, several people have written in with this.
So I'm going to kind of tie their questions together.
Wendy in Chattanooga, Tennessee listens to WNBA. Sean and Jennifer,
um have all written in with a question about Hebrews
six four through six.
S1 (02:11):
It's a it's a troubling passage.
S2 (02:12):
It is, it is. Does this passage, Hebrews six four
through six imply that you can lose your salvation? Um,
if not this passage, do you think you can ever,
under any circumstance, lose your salvation? Um, Sean says he
doesn't think you can lose your salvation. So the verse is,
if that's if he's right, are the verses teaching? Are
(02:33):
they teaching for the Christian Jews to not fall back
into Judaism? Um, and then Jennifer wanted to know if God, um,
along with all of the rest, would God take away
a free gift like that from a person? I mean,
we talk about it being this free gift that we
just have to take it if you have. Can he
take that back?
S1 (02:52):
Now, I just want you to know, I'm going to
take a lot of time with this question, because we
get a lot of people with it. And I think
the way to start with this is with what Scripture
teaches about our security.
S3 (03:03):
Yeah. And this is such a great passage. Everybody should
have this underlined in their Bible to be knowing that
their relationship with the Lord Jesus is secure not because
of what they do, but because of what he has done.
He this is this is in John chapter, chapter six.
And it starts like, let's just start at verse 37.
It says, all that the father gives me will come
(03:25):
to me, and the one who comes to me, I
will certainly not cast out. For I have come down
from heaven not to do my own will, but the
will of him who sent me. This is the will
of him who sent me, that of all that he
has given me, I will lose nothing but raise him
up on the last day. For this is the will
of my father, that everyone who beholds the son and
(03:47):
believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself
will raise him up on the last day. Seems pretty
clear that the person doing the work in this situation
is the Lord Jesus.
S1 (03:58):
Yeah, and he always does. The will of the father.
S3 (03:59):
Always does the will. So if anybody could be lost,
that would mean that Jesus had failed in his mission.
And if he had failed in his mission, then he
could not be the Messiah.
S1 (04:09):
So yeah, he stakes his whole messianic identity.
S3 (04:14):
Right.
S1 (04:14):
On the fact that he always does the will of
the father. This is my father's will, that of all
that he has given me. I like how my version
reads in in the hcsb I lose none of them.
S3 (04:24):
Right.
S1 (04:24):
And I think that is crucial. So I think that
we can't get stronger than the words of Jesus that
he says we are secure. And that's why I say
Hebrews six is troubling, because on the surface it appears
that it's saying the opposite. And I'm going to read
the verses that people are asking about. It says, for
it's impossible to renew to repentance. Those who were once enlightened,
(04:47):
who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit,
tasted the good words and powers of the world or
the coming age, and who have fallen away because to
their own harm they are crucifying the Son of God
and holding him up to contempt. So it's impossible to
renew them to repentance. And it sounds like that's saying
(05:08):
that they've come and they've known the Lord and they've
lost their salvation. Now, here's how I I'm just going
to explain the passage. I think it will answer all
those questions that we got. First of all, I think
it's really crucial that we understand he's writing to Jewish believers.
That's what the book of Hebrews is about. Uh, to
Messianic Jews, we would call them today, and they're facing
(05:29):
persecution and they're thinking about going backwards. Some of them
are thinking about going backwards to more traditional Judaism, leaving
Jesus out of the equation. And then when the persecution
passes by, they'll move back to it. But they're thinking
about going backwards. And so I think, in a sense,
(05:49):
the book of Hebrews is written to a mixed multitude
of some who are genuine believers and some who are,
because they're considering this, are betraying the fact that they
may not be believers. And you see this in Hebrews
three verse six. It says, Messiah was faithful as a
son over his household, and we are presently. That's why
I'm adding the word, the present tense. There we are,
(06:11):
that household. If we hold on to the courage and
confidence of our hope. And it's also saying, what if
we bail? What if we don't hold on to the
courage and confidence of our hope? Then we are not
his household today. And so it proves that we are.
If we bail, it proves that we don't know the Lord.
Hebrews 314 says, we have become companions of the Messiah
(06:32):
if we hold firmly until the end. The reality that
we had at the start. And so what it's saying
there is we hold firm, and then we demonstrate that
we're companions of the Messiah. But what if we don't
hold firmly? Well, then we're not his companions. And so
it is saying, look, if you don't endure, you're demonstrating
(06:56):
that you're not elect. The great outward sign of being
part of the elect family of God is enduring in
the faith those who Bale demonstrate that they're not. Now,
what's the warning in Hebrews six about? I know I'm
kind of taken over here on.
S3 (07:12):
This, thinking that people are afraid they're not going to endure.
That's where they get afraid. Yeah. What if I don't
keep up?
S1 (07:17):
Yeah. Well, Hebrews six nine talks about that and says,
even though we're speaking this way, dear friends, in your case,
we're confident of better things. That's right. And so there's
a great deal of confidence that he has that if
we know Jesus, we will endure. And if you know Jesus,
you don't have to worry about not enduring. Now in
Hebrews six, it's really important to read it in context.
(07:39):
And he tells them to leave the elementary message about
the Messiah and let us go on to maturity. And
some people think in Hebrews 611 it says that it's saying,
leave the foundational truths you were taught as a new believer,
and go on and become a mature follower of Messiah,
a follower of a mature follower of Jesus. But I
don't think it's saying he says, leave the elementary message
(08:01):
of the Messiah. I think what he's saying there is
leave the elementary message that you learned as a Jewish
person who didn't believe in Jesus yet, and move on
to the maturity of full faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
And here's why I say this is he says. That
(08:22):
we have to move on from the foundation of repentance
that's taught in traditional Judaism and in the messianic faith,
the faith in Jesus, the Christian faith. Faith in God,
teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, resurrection of
the dead, and eternal judgment that all those things are
found in, uh, in both Judaism and in the foundational
(08:47):
teachings of the Christian faith. But there's one of those
things that is mentioned that is not, uh, referring to that.
And that is the word baptismos ritual washings in my version.
Some versions say baptisms. That is a word that is
used exclusively in the New Testament to refer to Old
(09:08):
Testament ritual washings. It never refers to Christian baptism. And
so what he is saying, that's how I know that
all these things refer to Old Testament ideas. He says
we need to move on from those Old Testament ideas
to their fulfillment in Jesus, and then we'll have a
mature faith. And so what is he saying? He's saying
to people who are thinking about bailing, I know you
(09:29):
don't know the Lord, but you need to move on
to a fully or full, complete faith in Jesus. And
then he gives a warning. And the warning is, once
we come as close as you have come, if you bail,
it's impossible to renew you to repentance. You have come
closer and closer and closer. So much that people even
think you're a believer, but you're not. He says you've
(09:51):
been enlightened. You know that Jesus is the Messiah. You've
tasted the heavenly gift, uh, and you became companions with
the Holy Spirit. You got to partake in the events
of the Holy Spirit right here in this congregation that
you're part of. You've tasted the good word of God.
You've heard it preached, you've seen the powers of the
coming age. You've seen all these things. You know, this
is true, and yet you haven't made a personal decision.
(10:13):
And if you bail now, if you don't put your
trust in Jesus now, but you bail, it will be impossible.
And I would think this is, humanly speaking, it will
be impossible to renew you to repentance. And that's humanly speaking. Now,
of course, I think God can renew anyone's repentance at
any time, but generally speaking, he's saying is if you
(10:33):
get this close and then you abandon, then your hearts
are hardened and you won't come back. And so I
think it's a I call it the close but no
cigar Warning that you've come this close. You've been raised
with this Old Testament teaching. But you. But now you're
(10:54):
thinking of going back to Non-messianic Judaism. And if you
do that, it's going to be really bad for you. Now,
this is a passage that Eve and I have talked
about many times.
S3 (11:04):
It's like, I understand it. That's good, that's good. And
then six months later, could we go over that Hebrews
six thing again? Because I don't understand it as much
as I did when we were talking.
S1 (11:12):
That was Eva a long time ago. Now she she.
S3 (11:15):
I've got it now. Yeah. I can understand how it
keeps coming up in people's thoughts.
S1 (11:19):
But it's so encouraging to know. I love what he
says in verse nine. We mentioned it already, uh, where
he says, even though we are speaking this way, dear friends,
in your case, we're confident of better things connected with salvation.
We are confident that you know the Lord and that
you really are his child and you're not going to bail,
(11:39):
because what's the evidence of of election? It's endurance staying faithful.
And he says, you know, you're going to stay faithful.
And then you'll demonstrate that you really did know the Lord.
That's his great confidence for them. So people shouldn't look
at this as worrisome. But I'll tell you what we
should do. We should examine ourselves, not worry about the future.
(12:01):
Examine ourselves. Are we in the faith now? Have we
really trusted in Jesus? Are we not trusting in our
own good deeds? Do we believe he died for our
sins and rose again? If that's the case, stick with it.
That's our faithfulness. But if you think, yeah, I've been
kind of around this stuff. I was raised in the church.
I've seen this stuff, but I haven't really put my
(12:23):
trust in Jesus. Well, that's that's the thing to do.
We need to put our trust in Jesus. Well, we
are going to be right back with more of your
questions in just a moment. You're listening to Michael Radonich,
Trish McMillan and Eva Radulovic as we talk about your
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(13:02):
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(13:25):
(888)Â 644-7122 or go to Open Line radio.org. Welcome back to
Open Line. My name is Michael Radonich and I am
so glad that you're listening in today. Joining me is
Eva Radonich. She's a professor at Moody Bible Institute, and
(13:48):
she also is a contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary.
And amazingly, she shares my last name. And I guess
it's because we're married. And then also with me is
Tricia McMillan, the producer of Open Line. She's the one who, uh,
generally puts the program together every weekend. She's the one
that sets up your calls and makes sure that everything
(14:11):
is going smoothly. And she is here. She's put the
mailbag together, and so she's the one asking the questions today.
And Eva is the one who usually answers them via text.
But today, she's right here to do that. Well, Trish, uh,
we got more here, right?
S2 (14:26):
We do. We're going to keep we're going to kind
of stay with that salvation. Can you loser salvation topic. Uh,
Wendy had a question. She's in Indianapolis, Indiana, listens to
where she and her husband were discussing the elect, and
she was wondering first if it's possible for one of
the chosen to not respond to the call. And second,
if one of the chosen or elect does not respond,
(14:47):
and calling the name of Jesus calling the name of
the Lord Jesus, will that person still be admitted to
heaven because they're elect?
S3 (14:54):
Okay, I think we can look back again at that
passage out of John chapter six that we looked at
in the answer to the previous caller's question, writer's question.
S1 (15:02):
Right.
S3 (15:03):
A writer's question, right? Um, but, uh, he says all
that the father gives me will come to me. They
will come. So if a person is elect, they are
going to come to Jesus. And the one who comes
to me, I will certainly not cast out. So if
a person comes, it's not they they're not going to
(15:23):
be cast out. So there's a couple of principles that
we see here. First of all, that if you are
elect an answer to Wendy's question, you will respond to
the call of Jesus. And that that will be a
a permanent response, because it says, for I have not
come down from heaven not to do my own will,
but the will of him who sent me. And it's
God's will that. That of all that he has given me,
(15:46):
I will lose nothing, but will raise him up on
the last day.
S1 (15:49):
Yeah. So what was the second part of that question
that she had?
S2 (15:52):
If someone is elect or chosen and doesn't respond, will
that person still be admitted to heaven?
S1 (15:57):
That's just not a possibility.
S2 (15:59):
Because if you are elect and chosen, you will respond.
S3 (16:01):
Will respond. Right?
S1 (16:02):
And the thing is, when people respond, do you think
they are responding because they know that they're elect? No, no,
they don't know they're elect. I love that quote. Uh,
I think it was Spurgeon, but it was Warren Wiersbe
that I heard quoted.
S3 (16:15):
But the door.
S1 (16:16):
Of the door where he said, as you enter the
getting saved, coming to know the Lord is sort of
like seeing a door with a sign above it that says,
whosoever will may come. And then you walk through the door,
and the other side says.
S3 (16:30):
Chosen before the foundation of the world. Yeah.
S1 (16:32):
And I just think that that's so true. And that
same day I remember, uh, it was my first week
at Moody Bible Institute as a student. So we're talking
years ago. I remember President Lincoln had just been inaugurated, and, uh,
it was a long time ago. And Warren Wiersbe was
the pastor there, and he talked about Ephesians one. That
was he was teaching the college age Sunday school class,
(16:55):
and he talked about, uh, uh, about election that day.
And he said, uh, try to explain election. You'll lose
your mind. Try to explain it away. You'll lose your soul.
And I just I so appreciated what he had to
say about it, that there is something mysterious there.
S3 (17:17):
Right? We want to put God in a box and
understand every single little bit. But really, God's ways are
higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
We can live with that tension.
S1 (17:27):
Yeah, we can live with it. That's right. Uh, it's.
And I'll get it right this time. It's one of
the things that I have discovered. It's about sovereignty, free will,
About election and responding with faith. It's like I read
this book about science. It was called It Doesn't Matter.
But the point of it is it says that even
(17:48):
in science, there are things that are taken by faith
that we just can't comprehend. That light is said to
be made of waves, and it's also made of particles.
And it can't be both. And yet it is. And
people say, well, how can God have sovereign election? And
we have to respond with faith? Well, because then it's
not not faith anymore. If God. Well, they're both true.
(18:09):
We have to respond. And yet God chooses and they're
both true. And and it's just how how you live. So.
S2 (18:19):
All right. Thank you. I hope for all of you
who've had that question. I hope this clears it up
for you a little bit.
S1 (18:25):
Just live with.
S2 (18:25):
It. Right? Live with it. Right. Um, but there's so
much there to unpack. Yeah. Um, crystal has a question
out of Luke 12, Verses 41 to 48.
S1 (18:37):
See those pages turning? I love.
S2 (18:39):
That. Um, this is a parable. The Lord Jesus is telling.
She wants to know if this is punishment for unbelievers
or for believers. She said, it's the, um, the UN. Uh,
I'm trying to find it here.
S1 (18:53):
I found it. The who, then, is the faithful and
sensible manager. His master will put in charge of his
household servants to give them their allotted food at the
proper time. That slave whose master finds him working when
he comes will be rewarded. I tell you the truth.
He will put him in charge of all his possessions.
But if that slave says in his heart, my master
is delaying his coming, and he starts to beat the
(19:14):
male and female slaves, and to eat and drink and
get drunk, this slave's master will come on a day
he does not expect him, and at hour he does
not know. He will cut him to pieces and assign
him a place with unbelievers. And the slave who knew
his master's will and didn't prepare himself to do it,
will be severely beaten. But the one who did not
know and did things deserving of lows will be beaten lightly.
(19:37):
Much will be required of everyone who has been given much,
and even more will be expected of those who have
been entrusted to more with more.
S2 (19:45):
So Crystal says to her, it sounds like the believer
has stopped looking for his master and in the end
is punished as an unbeliever. But I thought a person
couldn't lose their salvation. So where does this parable fit
into what we were just talking about? Or or does it?
S4 (20:02):
Uh, I think.
S3 (20:03):
It's important to always understand the, the the point of
the parable. I don't think this is Jesus is really
talking about rewards and punishment as far as being having
a right relationship with God as we think about being
a believer or not a believer. I think the the
issue of this parable is more about being faithful with
(20:23):
what you have been given. Mhm.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah, I.
S1 (20:27):
Think that's true. And and here's what, what I think
about This is that, first of all, we have to
be governed by what the plain teaching of Scripture says.
When I first came to Moody Bible Institute, I remember
I had a spiritual life course and Mr. Winslett was
the professor. And I asked him, he started off with,
(20:50):
your spiritual life starts with your security knowing that we
are secure in him. And I raised Hebrews six and
I got to tell you, he gave probably a better
explanation than I tried last segment, but nevertheless I couldn't
hear it. I couldn't understand it. And I kept pushing
him and pushing him and pushing him. And finally I
(21:10):
was just an annoying student. Annoying student. Anyway. So finally
he said to me and he always called me my brother.
He said, I'm going to tell you what you need
to know. He says, always interpret the unclear in light
of the clear. And then he just listed off all
these verses from John six that we mentioned, and John
ten that nothing will ever pluck us out of the
(21:31):
father and the son's hands. And that nothing will separate
us from the love of God.
S3 (21:36):
Romans eight. Romans eight. Yeah.
S1 (21:38):
And I mean, he started boom, boom, boom. Passage after
passage after passage. He says, there's nothing clearer in Scripture
that we are secure. So you're going to find an
obscure passage, a parable, let's say Hebrews six, and you're
going to throw out everything that's clear because of something
that's unclear to you. He says, just presume that the
(22:00):
clear teachings of Scripture are true, and then interpret the
unclear in light of that. And so I think that
that's what we ought to do. I think when it's
talking about people, if they are indeed being, uh, disciplined
here or punished, I would say not disciplined. Uh, then
this parable is teaching that there may be people who
(22:22):
are professing faith, thinking they genuinely believe in the master
or have him as a master, but then they see
he's not coming, so they're not going to live for
him because they really don't trust him. And that's why
they will. You know, some who are punished will be
punished worse for their failings. Uh, those who know more
(22:44):
will be punished more. And those who know less will
be punished less. But everyone will will face the judge.
And that's what the outcome will be. But I don't
think it's loss of salvation. It's demonstrating that they never
really had it.
S2 (22:57):
So all right. Thanks, Crystal, for that question. Our next
question is from Barb in Spokane, Washington. Listens to w sorry,
listens to KMP. Um, she said, thinking in terms of
Romans 116 that everyone who believes receives salvation and Ephesians
two eight and nine for by grace sorry, for you
are saved by grace through faith. And this not of yourselves,
(23:18):
it is the gift of God. Um, or is having
faith and believing synonymous, or is it a two step process?
Do we bring belief to the table. And then God
supplies the faith. I know we're dead in our sins,
but if we show interest, then God provides the faith
that we need. Or is God providing the belief and
the faith as a gift?
S1 (23:38):
She's she's really confused about what is faith and what
is belief.
S3 (23:41):
Yeah, she seems to think they're two totally different things, right?
S1 (23:43):
Yeah, yeah. But the Greek word in the New Testament
for faith pisteuo also is translated believe.
S4 (23:49):
Right.
S1 (23:50):
They it's the same word. Uh, to have faith and
to believe mean exactly the same thing. And so when
you see believe or faith, it's the same word.
S3 (24:00):
It's not a two step process.
S4 (24:01):
It's not a two step process.
S2 (24:02):
Same thing.
S1 (24:03):
Yeah, it's the same exact thing. And in Ephesians two
eight and nine where it says that by grace are
you saved through faith? Not of works, lest any man
should boast. It is the gift of God. It is
not faith that's the gift. It's salvation. That's the gift. Uh,
that's what it's referring to. Uh, God doesn't give us
faith as a gift. Now, what he does do. and
(24:26):
I'm going to just what God does is I think
a really good illustration of it is in acts 16,
I'm going to have you read the verse. I'm going
to tell her it's acts 16, and the reason I'm
going to have her read the verse, because I'm trying.
I think her version actually translates it better. She reads
the New American Standard, which she thinks that Moses and.
S4 (24:49):
Paul actually has an.
S3 (24:51):
Autographed copy.
S4 (24:51):
Yeah.
S1 (24:52):
Yeah.
S4 (24:52):
That's right.
S1 (24:54):
It says in acts 16 and it's verse, uh uh, 1414.
S4 (25:02):
Yeah.
S1 (25:02):
The second half.
S4 (25:03):
I want to read that.
S3 (25:04):
It says a woman named Lydia from the from the
city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabric, a worshiper
of God was listening. And the Lord opened her heart
to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
S1 (25:17):
Why do we believe?
S4 (25:18):
Because God opens our hearts.
S1 (25:20):
That's why we'll be back with more of your questions
in just a moment. Don't go away. This is Michael
Ray Dolnick on open line. Stay with us. Have you
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(26:02):
bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn how Far East
Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the world at febc.
Org on their weekly podcast. Until all have heard with
Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives changed by Messiah
all across the globe. Again, you can hear the podcast
when you visit febc. Org That's febc.org. Welcome back to
(26:35):
Open Line with me. Doctor Michael Ray Melnick. And joining
me today is my best friend, my colleague at Moody,
my fellow contributor to the Moody Bible Institute, and my
wife Eva Radonich. Also here is Tricia McMillan, producer of
Open Line. She's compiled all the questions you've sent, and
she is in studio right now, and she's the one
who is controlling everything. She decides what questions will be answered.
(26:58):
So those of you out there who are listening and
you say, Michael, you didn't answer the question I wrote in. Yeah.
I'm sorry. It's Trisha's fault.
S3 (27:04):
That's all I have to say.
S2 (27:06):
Thanks.
S1 (27:09):
Okay, so what's our next question?
S2 (27:11):
All right. Our next question is from Betty. She says
in revelation 21 three. Does it say we will see
God when we get to heaven? So the verse says,
then I heard a loud voice from the throne, look,
God's dwelling is with humanity and he will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be
with them and be their God. So will we. Will
we see God?
S1 (27:32):
Well, this is one of the things that I say
all the time that no man has ever seen God.
But who has revealed him? The son.
S3 (27:42):
Son?
S1 (27:42):
Yeah. And the only time we'll ever see God is
the Lord Jesus. Now it says that the Lord will
dwell with humanity. But in what sense will he dwell
with humanity in eternity? In the person of the Lord
Jesus in the second person? So even though it doesn't
state that there's no other way it can be that
he will dwell with humanity in the sense that he
(28:04):
is the Lord. The Lord Jesus is fully God. He
is the one that will rule over us for eternity.
We can't see God the Father because he is a spirit.
When he has been revealed in places like Daniel seven.
It's a vision. It is not an actual seeing of
God we cannot see. Jesus said the Lord Jesus said,
God is a spirit must be worshiped in spirit and
in truth. We cannot see God the Father because he
(28:26):
is a spirit and you can't see His Spirit. But
God will be with us forever and lead us forever
because he is the Lord Jesus.
S3 (28:34):
And it just says, God and the Lord Jesus is God. Yeah, so.
S1 (28:38):
So I just don't. I'm convinced that we will not
see God the Father, but we will see God the
Son for all eternity. And actually, you know what Jesus said,
if that's not enough for you, I and the father
are one. I don't see why that would be a
problem for anyone. Uh, we'll see him. Not just. I
find it interesting that in revelation one, when the Lord
(29:00):
Jesus is depicted, uh, he is not depicted as he
is shown in the Gospels. In the Gospels, I it's
it's like what we see is Jesus as every man.
He looks like ordinary. He looks like it's not that
he looks.
S3 (29:18):
They had they wouldn't recognize him in the garden if
Judas hadn't pointed him out.
S1 (29:23):
He looked like a normal person, an ordinary person. Uh,
and Isaiah 53, it talks about how he didn't have
royal bearing. He didn't have any special super charisma. He
he's just ordinary. When we think of Superman and Clark Kent.
Clark Kent looks ordinary. And then, of course, Superman is
the all powerful superhero. Well, in revelation one, when the
(29:46):
Lord Jesus is depicted, he's not depicted as ordinary. It says, uh,
that I saw. This is in, uh, verse 1813. And
among the lampstands was one like the Son of Man,
dressed in a long robe with a gold sash wrapped
around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool,
(30:09):
white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
His feet were like fine bronze as it is fired
in a furnace, and his voice like the sound of
cascading waters like Niagara Falls. And so the point of
this is when Jesus is depicted in his glory. He
looks somewhat like the father's depiction in Daniel seven, right?
(30:31):
And I believe that the reason for this is because
in his glory in John 17, what the Lord Jesus
says is that now glorified I have glorified you. He says, uh,
for example, in verse four, I have glorified you on
the earth by completing the work you gave me to do. Now, father,
(30:54):
glorify me in your presence with that glory I had
with you before the world existed. And so in his glorified,
exalted state, the Lord Jesus doesn't look like every man anymore.
Now he's got the image of the glorified, of the
glorified father. That's what he says right there. And the
father answers that prayer. And so we're not going to
(31:16):
be disappointed, Like, oh, Jesus, looks so ordinary. I don't
want to be with him and see him for eternity. No,
we're going to be in the presence of very God,
and he is glorious, and he is the one that
reveals God to us.
S3 (31:27):
And taking you back to that revelation 21 passage, it
opens up with, he heard. I heard a loud voice
from the throne saying, behold, the tabernacle of God is
among men. So she says, isn't this God the Father
that we're seeing here on this throne? Verse five says,
And he who sits on the throne said, behold, I
am making all things new. And he said, these words
are faithful and true. It is done. I am the
(31:49):
Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, which
is how Jesus is identified in chapter one, verse eight. Yeah.
So clearly this is Jesus that we're seeing here in
chapter 21, not God the Father.
S2 (32:02):
Thank you for that question, Betty, and thank you for
that answer. Um, our next question is from, uh, Chris
on Facebook wrote and wanted to know we're going back
to parables. and Matthew 13. Uh, the parable of the weeds. Uh,
Matthew 1324 through 29. Is this before or after the rapture,
(32:24):
or is it about the rapture?
S1 (32:27):
The parable of the wheat and the chaff, is that it?
Or the parable of the weeds?
S2 (32:30):
Parable of the weeds.
S1 (32:32):
I'll look it.
S2 (32:32):
Up. So the kingdom of heaven may be compared to
a man who sowed good seed in his field. But
while people were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds
among the wheat and left. When the plants sprouted and
produced grain, then the weeds also appeared. The landowner slaves
came to him and said, master, didn't you sow good
seed in your field? Then where did the weeds come from?
An enemy did this, he told them, so do you
(32:54):
want us to go and gather them up? The slaves
asked him. No, he said, when you gather up the weeds,
you might also uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest. At harvest time, I'll tell the.
I'll tell the reapers. Gather the weeds first and tie
them in bundles to burn them. But store the wheat
in my barn. Yeah.
S3 (33:12):
Well, before Michael answers this question, we'll do a little
agricultural talk here that the word that's used for weeds
is actually tares. And when those plants come up, those
little plants, they look exactly like wheat coming up. So
if you looked at the field, you wouldn't be able
to tell that there had been anything wrong with the
plants that were growing up there. It was only when
(33:33):
they became mature and the wheat had the head on
it that you would see, okay, that's the grain. And
these other things are weeds.
S1 (33:40):
Uh, so, uh, some people think that among believers you
can't tell those who are real believers and those who
are not, and that they're growing up together. I really
don't think that this is what it's about. It's talking
about Earth and the kingdom of heaven, which is growing
here on the earth. You know, Jesus is growing the kingdom,
his rule on earth. And right here you've got people
(34:04):
who are believers who look, I mean, you and I
and Eva, we all look rather ordinary, you know, like
regular people. And then if we walk out onto LaSalle Boulevard,
there will be people who don't know the Lord and
they look same as us. We're growing up together in
this world. And so when the judgment time was going
(34:24):
to come, uh, they said, do you want us to
go and gather them up? He said, no. When you
gather up the weeds, you might also uproot the wheat
with them. So when judgment is going to fall on
the earth, if you do it now, it's going to
fall upon believers and non-believers alike. And so what's he say?
(34:45):
Let both grow together. And what have we had since
the first century? Since the birth of the church, we've
had believers and non-believers, people who are followers of Jesus
and people who are not followers of Jesus. And we
look alike sort of to the outside, naked eye, but
we're growing up together in this world. And then he
says at harvest time, that's the judgment. Gather the weeds
(35:05):
first and tie them in bundles to burn them. But
store the wheat in my barn. So I think what
it's talking about in the judgment, they're going to separate.
And I actually think that what's going to happen for
the church before judgment hits is we will be removed.
We'll be gathered to the barn, so to speak, and then, uh,
but I think it's a little bit hard, in my opinion,
(35:28):
to force a pre-tribulation post-tribulational rapture on this. He is
the Lord. Jesus is just saying that a believers and
non-believers are going to be growing in this world together
and be. When Judgment Day comes, God will separate them
and the believers won't be judged, but this earth will
be judged. That's what I think it's saying. Thank you. Uh,
(35:50):
we'll be right back with more of your Bible questions
that Trish is looking for right now. And remember, you
can always email your questions to us at Open line@moody.edu.
You can tweet them to at Openline radio one. You
can like us on Facebook and post it there. You're
listening to Open Line with Michael Ray Dolnick. Don't go away.
Trish and I will be right back. People are always
(36:18):
asking me questions about the Jewish people. Some of you
want to know how to reach your Jewish friends with
the gospel. Or you want to understand how the Messiah
fulfilled prophecy. Others want to learn about the Jewish feasts
and festivals. Chosen People Ministries is an organization that reaches
Jewish people with the good news all around the world
each month. Chosen People Ministries offers a free resource to
(36:41):
open line listeners that can help you in your personal
walk with Messiah Jesus, or it can help you reach
out to your Jewish friends and neighbors. For your free
copy of this month's resource. Go to the Open Line
website that's Open Line radio.org, and scroll down and find
the link that says A Free gift from Chosen People Ministries.
Click on that link and you'll be taken to a
(37:03):
page where you can sign up for your own free
copy of this month's resource. Welcome back to this all mailbag,
all the time edition of Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick.
Tricia McMillan is with me, and she has skillfully managed
(37:24):
the mailbag throughout as Eva and I. Eva Zelnick, who's
also here, have been trying to do our best to
answer your questions. Eva is here. She is my forever
sidekick and has been answering those questions along with me
this these last two hours. I'm really grateful. Thank you
for coming in.
S3 (37:40):
It's great to be here I love it.
S1 (37:42):
Okay, Trish, what do we got?
S2 (37:44):
Our next question is from Denise in Chicago. Listens to WNBA.
She wants to know, is Paul the 12th apostle?
S1 (37:50):
Uh, you know, some people want to say that in
acts one, when they chose to add a 12th disciple,
that they made a mistake, that that God wanted them
to wait for, uh, Paul to be the 12th disciple.
I don't think that's a mistake. When you read acts
one where Mattathias is chosen. There isn't a hint of
condemnation or like they did something wrong. It is an
(38:13):
act that is obviously led by the Holy Spirit when
they choose lots. That's the last time because the church
is born in acts two, and after that the Holy
Spirit indwells believers and no longer does they do. They
use lots to determine. But nevertheless, Mattathias is the one
that is chosen, and it is rightly so. And the
Holy Spirit leads the them with the lots, guides them
(38:35):
to Mattathias. And the reason for it, I believe, is
in Matthew 19 and Matthew 19. It says in verse 28,
when it talks about the disciples, it says, I assure you.
Jesus said to them, I assure you, in the Messianic age,
when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne,
(38:57):
you who have followed me will also sit on 12
thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. So there were
apostles or the 12 apostles were the 12 apostles who
would rule over Israel. They were functioning not as the
foundation of the church in that way, but they were
functioning as the leaders of Israel, the remnant of Israel.
(39:19):
And they are part of the remnant of Israel. And
they are going to be ruling over Israel in the kingdom.
And so they needed to choose a 12th apostle to
be an apostle to Israel. However, Paul comes along and
he's not an apostle to Israel. He's an apostle to
the uncircumcised. And so he he's genuinely apostle, but he's
(39:39):
not one of the 12. He's an additional apostle, as
is Barnabas, who will go to the Gentiles. And so, no,
they did not make a mistake. Mattathias is the right
one and Paul is additional apostle, one untimely born, he says.
S3 (39:54):
Because he apparently was among those unnamed earlier on who
followed along with Jesus all along. And we know that
Paul was not doing that.
S1 (40:02):
Yeah, he was there from the beginning. That's what they
said they needed. And they also said that he testified
of the resurrection. So obviously he was among them when
the when the Lord Jesus appeared as a resurrected Lord.
So good choice I would say.
S2 (40:16):
Mhm. Thanks, Denise, for that question. Jeremy wrote us and
said I recently witnessed to a professing atheist in which
he kind of discredited my view that Christianity was the
only true religion because I had not read other religious texts, um,
such as the Quran or or other books like that.
I've studied the Mormon religion and have found and have found, um,
(40:38):
faults that verify it's a false religion. But I haven't
read the whole Book of Mormon. Um, it just seemed
like my stance that I feel like I don't have
to actually read other religious books to stand on my
faith that the Bible is the true book of the
only true religion. Christianity was not valid to him. How
should I respond to someone who discredits me for not
having read other religious books? When I tried to prove
(40:58):
that Christianity is the only true religion?
S3 (41:01):
It's pretty. This is in today's pluralistic mindset. This is
not an unusual question to have to come into contact with,
but I think that the best answer we can get
is what we learned from the bank. If you go
to work as a teller in the bank, they one
of the things that tellers have to do. Tellers have
to be able to recognize counterfeit money. And the way
(41:23):
that a teller is taught to recognize counterfeit money isn't
by looking at 50 or 60 or 100 examples of
counterfeit money. They're taught to recognize counterfeit money by knowing
what the real money looks like, by knowing how the
true looks that helps us when we come across anything
that doesn't look like that true thing. Then we go, oh,
that's suspicious. That's probably a counterfeit. So I think that
the answer to this, you know, accusation is you haven't
(41:46):
studied every false religion. It's fine. It's okay. I tell
you what I know. I know that I've studied the
true and buy the true. Then we can recognize the
false and then challenge your friend. Why don't we take
some time and read the Bible together and see what
you think of it?
S1 (42:01):
Yeah. Study the truth. That's what I think now. I
have to say, if I were specializing in working with
some sect or some group, I would study it so
I could help them see what I see from Scripture.
S2 (42:16):
Yes.
S1 (42:17):
But if just generally speaking, I don't. In fact. In fact,
one of the things I discovered about Open Line when
I first started doing it, I used to get a
lot of questions about various cults of Christianity and different groups,
and they wanted me to talk about other religions. And,
you know, frankly, I'm not that good at it. Uh,
and I used to say, well, I'll give you my answer,
(42:38):
but really, what I know is the Bible.
S3 (42:41):
Right.
S1 (42:42):
And and I think people would say, oh, I'm sorry,
this guy's not that good. But they I finally taught
them not to ask me those questions so much. They
mostly asked me the questions about the Bible. So one
of the things that even I can do is we
can talk about what the Talmud says and what the
Midrash says and what the Mishnah says, because my special
area of expertise is, is Judaism. And so I'd better
know that. Yes. So it's not wrong to study other literature.
(43:03):
It's just that the most important thing I can do
is study the Bible.
S2 (43:07):
The true, the true. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Jeremy, for that question.
I hope that is helpful for you as you continue
having conversations with your friends. Our next question is from Marcia.
She listens to us in Alberta, Canada, and she says,
I've seen a version of the Bible that includes books
like Tobit and Baruch and a few others. Were these
books in the Jewish scriptures? If not, where did they
(43:29):
come from and who decided to add them?
S3 (43:32):
Good, good observation of these books. Tobit and Baruch and
some others like Maccabees and things. You'll sometimes see them
at the end of the Old Testament, in between the
Old Testament and the New Testament. In some versions of
the Bible, they were never recognized as scripture by the
in the Jewish canon, the Old Testament that we have
running from Genesis to Malachi, and that is the that
(43:56):
is the Old Testament that was always held to be
the Old Testament by the Jewish people. That was the
Old Testament during the time of Jesus. Of course, it
was just called the Torah then, or.
S1 (44:05):
The.
S3 (44:05):
Tanakh or the Tanakh. Exactly. These books actually were, you know,
helpful educational literature that was around early in the in
that time period, but were never considered. They were didactic
teaching literature, but they were never considered part of the
Scripture by the Jewish community and was not considered part
of the scriptures by the early church. They actually came
(44:26):
into that little back of the Bible, back of the
Old Testament part in the Middle Ages.
S1 (44:31):
Yeah. And actually it's later than the Middle Ages. It
the setting of the canon that that included those books.
We can put it right at 1546.
S3 (44:41):
That's why I was thinking about Middle Ages.
S1 (44:42):
Yeah. The Counter-Reformation and what it was is they, in
the response to the Reformation, uh, the setting with the Reformation,
sometimes the Counter-Reformation was trying to say, we want to
justify some of the things that we say we are
teaching there from Scripture some things that Luther and other
reformers objected to. Well, they're not in Scripture, but they
(45:04):
are in these apocryphal books, as they're called. And so
what they said is, oh, we're now going to include
these as sort of a quasi scripture along with the
Hebrew Bible. And so that's how they got in 16th century.
That's kind of a late time to.
S3 (45:20):
Like 15, 17.
S1 (45:22):
1546 is the Counter-Reformation at the Council of Trent. That's
when they brought those in. So, uh, it's certainly not, uh,
it was never considered scripture by a Judaism by be
the early church. It was only in the 16th century
that it got settled in there and brought in. But
you know what? They're kind of interesting, right? They are
(45:43):
interesting when when I took New Testament survey as a
moody student many years ago, we had to read the
Apocrypha before we read the New Testament.
S3 (45:50):
And some are inspirational stories which are encouraging and some
are historical things that are interesting and some are just
like crazy stories.
S1 (45:59):
Some of them.
S3 (45:59):
Are.
S1 (45:59):
Well, amazingly, that's the program for today.
S3 (46:03):
Wow. Out of time.
S1 (46:04):
Out of time. That's right. Thanks for listening, everyone. Especially
those of you who wrote in with your questions. As always,
thanks to Tricia McMillan for producing and for Chris Papendrecht
for putting this whole thing together with his excellent engineering skill.
Join us next week because we'll be live taking your
questions via phone. Remember, keep in touch with us by
going to our website openline radio.org. It's got links to
(46:27):
the Chosen People Ministries free resource and a link to
my own personal web page. Keep reading the Bible and
we'll talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor
Michael Melnick is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
of Moody Bible Institute.
Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
Line with Doctor Michael Radonich Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America.
We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God and
the spiritual life. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick, professor of Jewish
studies at Moody Bible Institute, and we are broadcasting from
Moody's downtown Chicago campus. If you have a Bible question today,
(00:31):
don't phone in. It's a special all mailbag, all the
time program. But you can write your question to Open line@moody.edu,
or you can post it on Twitter. Our handle is
at openline Radio1. Or you can like us on Facebook.
And while you're there, you can post your question on
the Open Line Radio Facebook page. It's probably the easiest.
(00:51):
Just go to our website, openline radio.org, and that website
has links to everything you're looking for, even links to email,
Facebook and Twitter. Joining me today in studio is Eva Radulovic.
She is my colleague on the faculty of Moody Bible Institute.
She is co-contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary. And she's
been my wife for lo these many years. And we,
(01:14):
I should say, I've been her husband all these years.
Let's get it right, you know. And also managing questions
is mailbag expert producer of Open Line. Tricia McMillan. Welcome.
Glad we're all together.
S2 (01:27):
Me too.
S1 (01:27):
Yeah.
S3 (01:28):
So being here around the radio kitchen table in person is, like,
even more fun than listening at home.
S1 (01:33):
That's right.
S3 (01:34):
So maybe, like, a lot of people just come down
and be with us.
S1 (01:36):
Yeah.
S2 (01:37):
Well, they are great. They are.
S1 (01:38):
They're listening in. That's right. So, well, let's keep our
Bibles open and let's get a second cup of coffee,
because we're going to go right back to your questions.
And Tricia has got a lot of them we've got
to cover.
S2 (01:49):
Yeah. And we're going to dive in this one in
this next question. Um, several people have written in with this.
So I'm going to kind of tie their questions together.
Wendy in Chattanooga, Tennessee listens to WNBA. Sean and Jennifer,
um have all written in with a question about Hebrews
six four through six.
S1 (02:11):
It's a it's a troubling passage.
S2 (02:12):
It is, it is. Does this passage, Hebrews six four
through six imply that you can lose your salvation? Um,
if not this passage, do you think you can ever,
under any circumstance, lose your salvation? Um, Sean says he
doesn't think you can lose your salvation. So the verse is,
if that's if he's right, are the verses teaching? Are
(02:33):
they teaching for the Christian Jews to not fall back
into Judaism? Um, and then Jennifer wanted to know if God, um,
along with all of the rest, would God take away
a free gift like that from a person? I mean,
we talk about it being this free gift that we
just have to take it if you have. Can he
take that back?
S1 (02:52):
Now, I just want you to know, I'm going to
take a lot of time with this question, because we
get a lot of people with it. And I think
the way to start with this is with what Scripture
teaches about our security.
S3 (03:03):
Yeah. And this is such a great passage. Everybody should
have this underlined in their Bible to be knowing that
their relationship with the Lord Jesus is secure not because
of what they do, but because of what he has done.
He this is this is in John chapter, chapter six.
And it starts like, let's just start at verse 37.
It says, all that the father gives me will come
(03:25):
to me, and the one who comes to me, I
will certainly not cast out. For I have come down
from heaven not to do my own will, but the
will of him who sent me. This is the will
of him who sent me, that of all that he
has given me, I will lose nothing but raise him
up on the last day. For this is the will
of my father, that everyone who beholds the son and
(03:47):
believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself
will raise him up on the last day. Seems pretty
clear that the person doing the work in this situation
is the Lord Jesus.
S1 (03:58):
Yeah, and he always does. The will of the father.
S3 (03:59):
Always does the will. So if anybody could be lost,
that would mean that Jesus had failed in his mission.
And if he had failed in his mission, then he
could not be the Messiah.
S1 (04:09):
So yeah, he stakes his whole messianic identity.
S3 (04:14):
Right.
S1 (04:14):
On the fact that he always does the will of
the father. This is my father's will, that of all
that he has given me. I like how my version
reads in in the hcsb I lose none of them.
S3 (04:24):
Right.
S1 (04:24):
And I think that is crucial. So I think that
we can't get stronger than the words of Jesus that
he says we are secure. And that's why I say
Hebrews six is troubling, because on the surface it appears
that it's saying the opposite. And I'm going to read
the verses that people are asking about. It says, for
it's impossible to renew to repentance. Those who were once enlightened,
(04:47):
who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit,
tasted the good words and powers of the world or
the coming age, and who have fallen away because to
their own harm they are crucifying the Son of God
and holding him up to contempt. So it's impossible to
renew them to repentance. And it sounds like that's saying
(05:08):
that they've come and they've known the Lord and they've
lost their salvation. Now, here's how I I'm just going
to explain the passage. I think it will answer all
those questions that we got. First of all, I think
it's really crucial that we understand he's writing to Jewish believers.
That's what the book of Hebrews is about. Uh, to
Messianic Jews, we would call them today, and they're facing
(05:29):
persecution and they're thinking about going backwards. Some of them
are thinking about going backwards to more traditional Judaism, leaving
Jesus out of the equation. And then when the persecution
passes by, they'll move back to it. But they're thinking
about going backwards. And so I think, in a sense,
(05:49):
the book of Hebrews is written to a mixed multitude
of some who are genuine believers and some who are,
because they're considering this, are betraying the fact that they
may not be believers. And you see this in Hebrews
three verse six. It says, Messiah was faithful as a
son over his household, and we are presently. That's why
I'm adding the word, the present tense. There we are,
(06:11):
that household. If we hold on to the courage and
confidence of our hope. And it's also saying, what if
we bail? What if we don't hold on to the
courage and confidence of our hope? Then we are not
his household today. And so it proves that we are.
If we bail, it proves that we don't know the Lord.
Hebrews 314 says, we have become companions of the Messiah
(06:32):
if we hold firmly until the end. The reality that
we had at the start. And so what it's saying
there is we hold firm, and then we demonstrate that
we're companions of the Messiah. But what if we don't
hold firmly? Well, then we're not his companions. And so
it is saying, look, if you don't endure, you're demonstrating
(06:56):
that you're not elect. The great outward sign of being
part of the elect family of God is enduring in
the faith those who Bale demonstrate that they're not. Now,
what's the warning in Hebrews six about? I know I'm
kind of taken over here on.
S3 (07:12):
This, thinking that people are afraid they're not going to endure.
That's where they get afraid. Yeah. What if I don't
keep up?
S1 (07:17):
Yeah. Well, Hebrews six nine talks about that and says,
even though we're speaking this way, dear friends, in your case,
we're confident of better things. That's right. And so there's
a great deal of confidence that he has that if
we know Jesus, we will endure. And if you know Jesus,
you don't have to worry about not enduring. Now in
Hebrews six, it's really important to read it in context.
(07:39):
And he tells them to leave the elementary message about
the Messiah and let us go on to maturity. And
some people think in Hebrews 611 it says that it's saying,
leave the foundational truths you were taught as a new believer,
and go on and become a mature follower of Messiah,
a follower of a mature follower of Jesus. But I
don't think it's saying he says, leave the elementary message
(08:01):
of the Messiah. I think what he's saying there is
leave the elementary message that you learned as a Jewish
person who didn't believe in Jesus yet, and move on
to the maturity of full faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
And here's why I say this is he says. That
(08:22):
we have to move on from the foundation of repentance
that's taught in traditional Judaism and in the messianic faith,
the faith in Jesus, the Christian faith. Faith in God,
teaching about ritual washings, laying on of hands, resurrection of
the dead, and eternal judgment that all those things are
found in, uh, in both Judaism and in the foundational
(08:47):
teachings of the Christian faith. But there's one of those
things that is mentioned that is not, uh, referring to that.
And that is the word baptismos ritual washings in my version.
Some versions say baptisms. That is a word that is
used exclusively in the New Testament to refer to Old
(09:08):
Testament ritual washings. It never refers to Christian baptism. And
so what he is saying, that's how I know that
all these things refer to Old Testament ideas. He says
we need to move on from those Old Testament ideas
to their fulfillment in Jesus, and then we'll have a
mature faith. And so what is he saying? He's saying
to people who are thinking about bailing, I know you
(09:29):
don't know the Lord, but you need to move on
to a fully or full, complete faith in Jesus. And
then he gives a warning. And the warning is, once
we come as close as you have come, if you bail,
it's impossible to renew you to repentance. You have come
closer and closer and closer. So much that people even
think you're a believer, but you're not. He says you've
(09:51):
been enlightened. You know that Jesus is the Messiah. You've
tasted the heavenly gift, uh, and you became companions with
the Holy Spirit. You got to partake in the events
of the Holy Spirit right here in this congregation that
you're part of. You've tasted the good word of God.
You've heard it preached, you've seen the powers of the
coming age. You've seen all these things. You know, this
is true, and yet you haven't made a personal decision.
(10:13):
And if you bail now, if you don't put your
trust in Jesus now, but you bail, it will be impossible.
And I would think this is, humanly speaking, it will
be impossible to renew you to repentance. And that's humanly speaking. Now,
of course, I think God can renew anyone's repentance at
any time, but generally speaking, he's saying is if you
(10:33):
get this close and then you abandon, then your hearts
are hardened and you won't come back. And so I
think it's a I call it the close but no
cigar Warning that you've come this close. You've been raised
with this Old Testament teaching. But you. But now you're
(10:54):
thinking of going back to Non-messianic Judaism. And if you
do that, it's going to be really bad for you. Now,
this is a passage that Eve and I have talked
about many times.
S3 (11:04):
It's like, I understand it. That's good, that's good. And
then six months later, could we go over that Hebrews
six thing again? Because I don't understand it as much
as I did when we were talking.
S1 (11:12):
That was Eva a long time ago. Now she she.
S3 (11:15):
I've got it now. Yeah. I can understand how it
keeps coming up in people's thoughts.
S1 (11:19):
But it's so encouraging to know. I love what he
says in verse nine. We mentioned it already, uh, where
he says, even though we are speaking this way, dear friends,
in your case, we're confident of better things connected with salvation.
We are confident that you know the Lord and that
you really are his child and you're not going to bail,
(11:39):
because what's the evidence of of election? It's endurance staying faithful.
And he says, you know, you're going to stay faithful.
And then you'll demonstrate that you really did know the Lord.
That's his great confidence for them. So people shouldn't look
at this as worrisome. But I'll tell you what we
should do. We should examine ourselves, not worry about the future.
(12:01):
Examine ourselves. Are we in the faith now? Have we
really trusted in Jesus? Are we not trusting in our
own good deeds? Do we believe he died for our
sins and rose again? If that's the case, stick with it.
That's our faithfulness. But if you think, yeah, I've been
kind of around this stuff. I was raised in the church.
I've seen this stuff, but I haven't really put my
(12:23):
trust in Jesus. Well, that's that's the thing to do.
We need to put our trust in Jesus. Well, we
are going to be right back with more of your
questions in just a moment. You're listening to Michael Radonich,
Trish McMillan and Eva Radulovic as we talk about your
questions from the Word of God. Ministry isn't a solo effort.
(13:02):
You know my voice. But if you could see inside
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(13:25):
(888)Â 644-7122 or go to Open Line radio.org. Welcome back to
Open Line. My name is Michael Radonich and I am
so glad that you're listening in today. Joining me is
Eva Radonich. She's a professor at Moody Bible Institute, and
(13:48):
she also is a contributor to the Moody Bible Commentary.
And amazingly, she shares my last name. And I guess
it's because we're married. And then also with me is
Tricia McMillan, the producer of Open Line. She's the one who, uh,
generally puts the program together every weekend. She's the one
that sets up your calls and makes sure that everything
(14:11):
is going smoothly. And she is here. She's put the
mailbag together, and so she's the one asking the questions today.
And Eva is the one who usually answers them via text.
But today, she's right here to do that. Well, Trish, uh,
we got more here, right?
S2 (14:26):
We do. We're going to keep we're going to kind
of stay with that salvation. Can you loser salvation topic. Uh,
Wendy had a question. She's in Indianapolis, Indiana, listens to
where she and her husband were discussing the elect, and
she was wondering first if it's possible for one of
the chosen to not respond to the call. And second,
if one of the chosen or elect does not respond,
(14:47):
and calling the name of Jesus calling the name of
the Lord Jesus, will that person still be admitted to
heaven because they're elect?
S3 (14:54):
Okay, I think we can look back again at that
passage out of John chapter six that we looked at
in the answer to the previous caller's question, writer's question.
S1 (15:02):
Right.
S3 (15:03):
A writer's question, right? Um, but, uh, he says all
that the father gives me will come to me. They
will come. So if a person is elect, they are
going to come to Jesus. And the one who comes
to me, I will certainly not cast out. So if
a person comes, it's not they they're not going to
(15:23):
be cast out. So there's a couple of principles that
we see here. First of all, that if you are
elect an answer to Wendy's question, you will respond to
the call of Jesus. And that that will be a
a permanent response, because it says, for I have not
come down from heaven not to do my own will,
but the will of him who sent me. And it's
God's will that. That of all that he has given me,
(15:46):
I will lose nothing, but will raise him up on
the last day.
S1 (15:49):
Yeah. So what was the second part of that question
that she had?
S2 (15:52):
If someone is elect or chosen and doesn't respond, will
that person still be admitted to heaven?
S1 (15:57):
That's just not a possibility.
S2 (15:59):
Because if you are elect and chosen, you will respond.
S3 (16:01):
Will respond. Right?
S1 (16:02):
And the thing is, when people respond, do you think
they are responding because they know that they're elect? No, no,
they don't know they're elect. I love that quote. Uh,
I think it was Spurgeon, but it was Warren Wiersbe
that I heard quoted.
S3 (16:15):
But the door.
S1 (16:16):
Of the door where he said, as you enter the
getting saved, coming to know the Lord is sort of
like seeing a door with a sign above it that says,
whosoever will may come. And then you walk through the door,
and the other side says.
S3 (16:30):
Chosen before the foundation of the world. Yeah.
S1 (16:32):
And I just think that that's so true. And that
same day I remember, uh, it was my first week
at Moody Bible Institute as a student. So we're talking
years ago. I remember President Lincoln had just been inaugurated, and, uh,
it was a long time ago. And Warren Wiersbe was
the pastor there, and he talked about Ephesians one. That
was he was teaching the college age Sunday school class,
(16:55):
and he talked about, uh, uh, about election that day.
And he said, uh, try to explain election. You'll lose
your mind. Try to explain it away. You'll lose your soul.
And I just I so appreciated what he had to
say about it, that there is something mysterious there.
S3 (17:17):
Right? We want to put God in a box and
understand every single little bit. But really, God's ways are
higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
We can live with that tension.
S1 (17:27):
Yeah, we can live with it. That's right. Uh, it's.
And I'll get it right this time. It's one of
the things that I have discovered. It's about sovereignty, free will,
About election and responding with faith. It's like I read
this book about science. It was called It Doesn't Matter.
But the point of it is it says that even
(17:48):
in science, there are things that are taken by faith
that we just can't comprehend. That light is said to
be made of waves, and it's also made of particles.
And it can't be both. And yet it is. And
people say, well, how can God have sovereign election? And
we have to respond with faith? Well, because then it's
not not faith anymore. If God. Well, they're both true.
(18:09):
We have to respond. And yet God chooses and they're
both true. And and it's just how how you live. So.
S2 (18:19):
All right. Thank you. I hope for all of you
who've had that question. I hope this clears it up
for you a little bit.
S1 (18:25):
Just live with.
S2 (18:25):
It. Right? Live with it. Right. Um, but there's so
much there to unpack. Yeah. Um, crystal has a question
out of Luke 12, Verses 41 to 48.
S1 (18:37):
See those pages turning? I love.
S2 (18:39):
That. Um, this is a parable. The Lord Jesus is telling.
She wants to know if this is punishment for unbelievers
or for believers. She said, it's the, um, the UN. Uh,
I'm trying to find it here.
S1 (18:53):
I found it. The who, then, is the faithful and
sensible manager. His master will put in charge of his
household servants to give them their allotted food at the
proper time. That slave whose master finds him working when
he comes will be rewarded. I tell you the truth.
He will put him in charge of all his possessions.
But if that slave says in his heart, my master
is delaying his coming, and he starts to beat the
(19:14):
male and female slaves, and to eat and drink and
get drunk, this slave's master will come on a day
he does not expect him, and at hour he does
not know. He will cut him to pieces and assign
him a place with unbelievers. And the slave who knew
his master's will and didn't prepare himself to do it,
will be severely beaten. But the one who did not
know and did things deserving of lows will be beaten lightly.
(19:37):
Much will be required of everyone who has been given much,
and even more will be expected of those who have
been entrusted to more with more.
S2 (19:45):
So Crystal says to her, it sounds like the believer
has stopped looking for his master and in the end
is punished as an unbeliever. But I thought a person
couldn't lose their salvation. So where does this parable fit
into what we were just talking about? Or or does it?
S4 (20:02):
Uh, I think.
S3 (20:03):
It's important to always understand the, the the point of
the parable. I don't think this is Jesus is really
talking about rewards and punishment as far as being having
a right relationship with God as we think about being
a believer or not a believer. I think the the
issue of this parable is more about being faithful with
(20:23):
what you have been given. Mhm.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah, I.
S1 (20:27):
Think that's true. And and here's what, what I think
about This is that, first of all, we have to
be governed by what the plain teaching of Scripture says.
When I first came to Moody Bible Institute, I remember
I had a spiritual life course and Mr. Winslett was
the professor. And I asked him, he started off with,
(20:50):
your spiritual life starts with your security knowing that we
are secure in him. And I raised Hebrews six and
I got to tell you, he gave probably a better
explanation than I tried last segment, but nevertheless I couldn't
hear it. I couldn't understand it. And I kept pushing
him and pushing him and pushing him. And finally I
(21:10):
was just an annoying student. Annoying student. Anyway. So finally
he said to me and he always called me my brother.
He said, I'm going to tell you what you need
to know. He says, always interpret the unclear in light
of the clear. And then he just listed off all
these verses from John six that we mentioned, and John
ten that nothing will ever pluck us out of the
(21:31):
father and the son's hands. And that nothing will separate
us from the love of God.
S3 (21:36):
Romans eight. Romans eight. Yeah.
S1 (21:38):
And I mean, he started boom, boom, boom. Passage after
passage after passage. He says, there's nothing clearer in Scripture
that we are secure. So you're going to find an
obscure passage, a parable, let's say Hebrews six, and you're
going to throw out everything that's clear because of something
that's unclear to you. He says, just presume that the
(22:00):
clear teachings of Scripture are true, and then interpret the
unclear in light of that. And so I think that
that's what we ought to do. I think when it's
talking about people, if they are indeed being, uh, disciplined
here or punished, I would say not disciplined. Uh, then
this parable is teaching that there may be people who
(22:22):
are professing faith, thinking they genuinely believe in the master
or have him as a master, but then they see
he's not coming, so they're not going to live for
him because they really don't trust him. And that's why
they will. You know, some who are punished will be
punished worse for their failings. Uh, those who know more
(22:44):
will be punished more. And those who know less will
be punished less. But everyone will will face the judge.
And that's what the outcome will be. But I don't
think it's loss of salvation. It's demonstrating that they never
really had it.
S2 (22:57):
So all right. Thanks, Crystal, for that question. Our next
question is from Barb in Spokane, Washington. Listens to w sorry,
listens to KMP. Um, she said, thinking in terms of
Romans 116 that everyone who believes receives salvation and Ephesians
two eight and nine for by grace sorry, for you
are saved by grace through faith. And this not of yourselves,
(23:18):
it is the gift of God. Um, or is having
faith and believing synonymous, or is it a two step process?
Do we bring belief to the table. And then God
supplies the faith. I know we're dead in our sins,
but if we show interest, then God provides the faith
that we need. Or is God providing the belief and
the faith as a gift?
S1 (23:38):
She's she's really confused about what is faith and what
is belief.
S3 (23:41):
Yeah, she seems to think they're two totally different things, right?
S1 (23:43):
Yeah, yeah. But the Greek word in the New Testament
for faith pisteuo also is translated believe.
S4 (23:49):
Right.
S1 (23:50):
They it's the same word. Uh, to have faith and
to believe mean exactly the same thing. And so when
you see believe or faith, it's the same word.
S3 (24:00):
It's not a two step process.
S4 (24:01):
It's not a two step process.
S2 (24:02):
Same thing.
S1 (24:03):
Yeah, it's the same exact thing. And in Ephesians two
eight and nine where it says that by grace are
you saved through faith? Not of works, lest any man
should boast. It is the gift of God. It is
not faith that's the gift. It's salvation. That's the gift. Uh,
that's what it's referring to. Uh, God doesn't give us
faith as a gift. Now, what he does do. and
(24:26):
I'm going to just what God does is I think
a really good illustration of it is in acts 16,
I'm going to have you read the verse. I'm going
to tell her it's acts 16, and the reason I'm
going to have her read the verse, because I'm trying.
I think her version actually translates it better. She reads
the New American Standard, which she thinks that Moses and.
S4 (24:49):
Paul actually has an.
S3 (24:51):
Autographed copy.
S4 (24:51):
Yeah.
S1 (24:52):
Yeah.
S4 (24:52):
That's right.
S1 (24:54):
It says in acts 16 and it's verse, uh uh, 1414.
S4 (25:02):
Yeah.
S1 (25:02):
The second half.
S4 (25:03):
I want to read that.
S3 (25:04):
It says a woman named Lydia from the from the
city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabric, a worshiper
of God was listening. And the Lord opened her heart
to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
S1 (25:17):
Why do we believe?
S4 (25:18):
Because God opens our hearts.
S1 (25:20):
That's why we'll be back with more of your questions
in just a moment. Don't go away. This is Michael
Ray Dolnick on open line. Stay with us. Have you
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(25:42):
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(26:02):
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(26:35):
Open Line with me. Doctor Michael Ray Melnick. And joining
me today is my best friend, my colleague at Moody,
my fellow contributor to the Moody Bible Institute, and my
wife Eva Radonich. Also here is Tricia McMillan, producer of
Open Line. She's compiled all the questions you've sent, and
she is in studio right now, and she's the one
who is controlling everything. She decides what questions will be answered.
(26:58):
So those of you out there who are listening and
you say, Michael, you didn't answer the question I wrote in. Yeah.
I'm sorry. It's Trisha's fault.
S3 (27:04):
That's all I have to say.
S2 (27:06):
Thanks.
S1 (27:09):
Okay, so what's our next question?
S2 (27:11):
All right. Our next question is from Betty. She says
in revelation 21 three. Does it say we will see
God when we get to heaven? So the verse says,
then I heard a loud voice from the throne, look,
God's dwelling is with humanity and he will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be
with them and be their God. So will we. Will
we see God?
S1 (27:32):
Well, this is one of the things that I say
all the time that no man has ever seen God.
But who has revealed him? The son.
S3 (27:42):
Son?
S1 (27:42):
Yeah. And the only time we'll ever see God is
the Lord Jesus. Now it says that the Lord will
dwell with humanity. But in what sense will he dwell
with humanity in eternity? In the person of the Lord
Jesus in the second person? So even though it doesn't
state that there's no other way it can be that
he will dwell with humanity in the sense that he
(28:04):
is the Lord. The Lord Jesus is fully God. He
is the one that will rule over us for eternity.
We can't see God the Father because he is a spirit.
When he has been revealed in places like Daniel seven.
It's a vision. It is not an actual seeing of
God we cannot see. Jesus said the Lord Jesus said,
God is a spirit must be worshiped in spirit and
in truth. We cannot see God the Father because he
(28:26):
is a spirit and you can't see His Spirit. But
God will be with us forever and lead us forever
because he is the Lord Jesus.
S3 (28:34):
And it just says, God and the Lord Jesus is God. Yeah, so.
S1 (28:38):
So I just don't. I'm convinced that we will not
see God the Father, but we will see God the
Son for all eternity. And actually, you know what Jesus said,
if that's not enough for you, I and the father
are one. I don't see why that would be a
problem for anyone. Uh, we'll see him. Not just. I
find it interesting that in revelation one, when the Lord
(29:00):
Jesus is depicted, uh, he is not depicted as he
is shown in the Gospels. In the Gospels, I it's
it's like what we see is Jesus as every man.
He looks like ordinary. He looks like it's not that
he looks.
S3 (29:18):
They had they wouldn't recognize him in the garden if
Judas hadn't pointed him out.
S1 (29:23):
He looked like a normal person, an ordinary person. Uh,
and Isaiah 53, it talks about how he didn't have
royal bearing. He didn't have any special super charisma. He
he's just ordinary. When we think of Superman and Clark Kent.
Clark Kent looks ordinary. And then, of course, Superman is
the all powerful superhero. Well, in revelation one, when the
(29:46):
Lord Jesus is depicted, he's not depicted as ordinary. It says, uh,
that I saw. This is in, uh, verse 1813. And
among the lampstands was one like the Son of Man,
dressed in a long robe with a gold sash wrapped
around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool,
(30:09):
white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
His feet were like fine bronze as it is fired
in a furnace, and his voice like the sound of
cascading waters like Niagara Falls. And so the point of
this is when Jesus is depicted in his glory. He
looks somewhat like the father's depiction in Daniel seven, right?
(30:31):
And I believe that the reason for this is because
in his glory in John 17, what the Lord Jesus
says is that now glorified I have glorified you. He says, uh,
for example, in verse four, I have glorified you on
the earth by completing the work you gave me to do. Now, father,
(30:54):
glorify me in your presence with that glory I had
with you before the world existed. And so in his glorified,
exalted state, the Lord Jesus doesn't look like every man anymore.
Now he's got the image of the glorified, of the
glorified father. That's what he says right there. And the
father answers that prayer. And so we're not going to
(31:16):
be disappointed, Like, oh, Jesus, looks so ordinary. I don't
want to be with him and see him for eternity. No,
we're going to be in the presence of very God,
and he is glorious, and he is the one that
reveals God to us.
S3 (31:27):
And taking you back to that revelation 21 passage, it
opens up with, he heard. I heard a loud voice
from the throne saying, behold, the tabernacle of God is
among men. So she says, isn't this God the Father
that we're seeing here on this throne? Verse five says,
And he who sits on the throne said, behold, I
am making all things new. And he said, these words
are faithful and true. It is done. I am the
(31:49):
Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, which
is how Jesus is identified in chapter one, verse eight. Yeah.
So clearly this is Jesus that we're seeing here in
chapter 21, not God the Father.
S2 (32:02):
Thank you for that question, Betty, and thank you for
that answer. Um, our next question is from, uh, Chris
on Facebook wrote and wanted to know we're going back
to parables. and Matthew 13. Uh, the parable of the weeds. Uh,
Matthew 1324 through 29. Is this before or after the rapture,
(32:24):
or is it about the rapture?
S1 (32:27):
The parable of the wheat and the chaff, is that it?
Or the parable of the weeds?
S2 (32:30):
Parable of the weeds.
S1 (32:32):
I'll look it.
S2 (32:32):
Up. So the kingdom of heaven may be compared to
a man who sowed good seed in his field. But
while people were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds
among the wheat and left. When the plants sprouted and
produced grain, then the weeds also appeared. The landowner slaves
came to him and said, master, didn't you sow good
seed in your field? Then where did the weeds come from?
An enemy did this, he told them, so do you
(32:54):
want us to go and gather them up? The slaves
asked him. No, he said, when you gather up the weeds,
you might also uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest. At harvest time, I'll tell the.
I'll tell the reapers. Gather the weeds first and tie
them in bundles to burn them. But store the wheat
in my barn. Yeah.
S3 (33:12):
Well, before Michael answers this question, we'll do a little
agricultural talk here that the word that's used for weeds
is actually tares. And when those plants come up, those
little plants, they look exactly like wheat coming up. So
if you looked at the field, you wouldn't be able
to tell that there had been anything wrong with the
plants that were growing up there. It was only when
(33:33):
they became mature and the wheat had the head on
it that you would see, okay, that's the grain. And
these other things are weeds.
S1 (33:40):
Uh, so, uh, some people think that among believers you
can't tell those who are real believers and those who
are not, and that they're growing up together. I really
don't think that this is what it's about. It's talking
about Earth and the kingdom of heaven, which is growing
here on the earth. You know, Jesus is growing the kingdom,
his rule on earth. And right here you've got people
(34:04):
who are believers who look, I mean, you and I
and Eva, we all look rather ordinary, you know, like
regular people. And then if we walk out onto LaSalle Boulevard,
there will be people who don't know the Lord and
they look same as us. We're growing up together in
this world. And so when the judgment time was going
(34:24):
to come, uh, they said, do you want us to
go and gather them up? He said, no. When you
gather up the weeds, you might also uproot the wheat
with them. So when judgment is going to fall on
the earth, if you do it now, it's going to
fall upon believers and non-believers alike. And so what's he say?
(34:45):
Let both grow together. And what have we had since
the first century? Since the birth of the church, we've
had believers and non-believers, people who are followers of Jesus
and people who are not followers of Jesus. And we
look alike sort of to the outside, naked eye, but
we're growing up together in this world. And then he
says at harvest time, that's the judgment. Gather the weeds
(35:05):
first and tie them in bundles to burn them. But
store the wheat in my barn. So I think what
it's talking about in the judgment, they're going to separate.
And I actually think that what's going to happen for
the church before judgment hits is we will be removed.
We'll be gathered to the barn, so to speak, and then, uh,
but I think it's a little bit hard, in my opinion,
(35:28):
to force a pre-tribulation post-tribulational rapture on this. He is
the Lord. Jesus is just saying that a believers and
non-believers are going to be growing in this world together
and be. When Judgment Day comes, God will separate them
and the believers won't be judged, but this earth will
be judged. That's what I think it's saying. Thank you. Uh,
(35:50):
we'll be right back with more of your Bible questions
that Trish is looking for right now. And remember, you
can always email your questions to us at Open line@moody.edu.
You can tweet them to at Openline radio one. You
can like us on Facebook and post it there. You're
listening to Open Line with Michael Ray Dolnick. Don't go away.
Trish and I will be right back. People are always
(36:18):
asking me questions about the Jewish people. Some of you
want to know how to reach your Jewish friends with
the gospel. Or you want to understand how the Messiah
fulfilled prophecy. Others want to learn about the Jewish feasts
and festivals. Chosen People Ministries is an organization that reaches
Jewish people with the good news all around the world
each month. Chosen People Ministries offers a free resource to
(36:41):
open line listeners that can help you in your personal
walk with Messiah Jesus, or it can help you reach
out to your Jewish friends and neighbors. For your free
copy of this month's resource. Go to the Open Line
website that's Open Line radio.org, and scroll down and find
the link that says A Free gift from Chosen People Ministries.
Click on that link and you'll be taken to a
(37:03):
page where you can sign up for your own free
copy of this month's resource. Welcome back to this all mailbag,
all the time edition of Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick.
Tricia McMillan is with me, and she has skillfully managed
(37:24):
the mailbag throughout as Eva and I. Eva Zelnick, who's
also here, have been trying to do our best to
answer your questions. Eva is here. She is my forever
sidekick and has been answering those questions along with me
this these last two hours. I'm really grateful. Thank you
for coming in.
S3 (37:40):
It's great to be here I love it.
S1 (37:42):
Okay, Trish, what do we got?
S2 (37:44):
Our next question is from Denise in Chicago. Listens to WNBA.
She wants to know, is Paul the 12th apostle?
S1 (37:50):
Uh, you know, some people want to say that in
acts one, when they chose to add a 12th disciple,
that they made a mistake, that that God wanted them
to wait for, uh, Paul to be the 12th disciple.
I don't think that's a mistake. When you read acts
one where Mattathias is chosen. There isn't a hint of
condemnation or like they did something wrong. It is an
(38:13):
act that is obviously led by the Holy Spirit when
they choose lots. That's the last time because the church
is born in acts two, and after that the Holy
Spirit indwells believers and no longer does they do. They
use lots to determine. But nevertheless, Mattathias is the one
that is chosen, and it is rightly so. And the
Holy Spirit leads the them with the lots, guides them
(38:35):
to Mattathias. And the reason for it, I believe, is
in Matthew 19 and Matthew 19. It says in verse 28,
when it talks about the disciples, it says, I assure you.
Jesus said to them, I assure you, in the Messianic age,
when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne,
(38:57):
you who have followed me will also sit on 12
thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. So there were
apostles or the 12 apostles were the 12 apostles who
would rule over Israel. They were functioning not as the
foundation of the church in that way, but they were
functioning as the leaders of Israel, the remnant of Israel.
(39:19):
And they are part of the remnant of Israel. And
they are going to be ruling over Israel in the kingdom.
And so they needed to choose a 12th apostle to
be an apostle to Israel. However, Paul comes along and
he's not an apostle to Israel. He's an apostle to
the uncircumcised. And so he he's genuinely apostle, but he's
(39:39):
not one of the 12. He's an additional apostle, as
is Barnabas, who will go to the Gentiles. And so, no,
they did not make a mistake. Mattathias is the right
one and Paul is additional apostle, one untimely born, he says.
S3 (39:54):
Because he apparently was among those unnamed earlier on who
followed along with Jesus all along. And we know that
Paul was not doing that.
S1 (40:02):
Yeah, he was there from the beginning. That's what they
said they needed. And they also said that he testified
of the resurrection. So obviously he was among them when
the when the Lord Jesus appeared as a resurrected Lord.
So good choice I would say.
S2 (40:16):
Mhm. Thanks, Denise, for that question. Jeremy wrote us and
said I recently witnessed to a professing atheist in which
he kind of discredited my view that Christianity was the
only true religion because I had not read other religious texts, um,
such as the Quran or or other books like that.
I've studied the Mormon religion and have found and have found, um,
(40:38):
faults that verify it's a false religion. But I haven't
read the whole Book of Mormon. Um, it just seemed
like my stance that I feel like I don't have
to actually read other religious books to stand on my
faith that the Bible is the true book of the
only true religion. Christianity was not valid to him. How
should I respond to someone who discredits me for not
having read other religious books? When I tried to prove
(40:58):
that Christianity is the only true religion?
S3 (41:01):
It's pretty. This is in today's pluralistic mindset. This is
not an unusual question to have to come into contact with,
but I think that the best answer we can get
is what we learned from the bank. If you go
to work as a teller in the bank, they one
of the things that tellers have to do. Tellers have
to be able to recognize counterfeit money. And the way
(41:23):
that a teller is taught to recognize counterfeit money isn't
by looking at 50 or 60 or 100 examples of
counterfeit money. They're taught to recognize counterfeit money by knowing
what the real money looks like, by knowing how the
true looks that helps us when we come across anything
that doesn't look like that true thing. Then we go, oh,
that's suspicious. That's probably a counterfeit. So I think that
the answer to this, you know, accusation is you haven't
(41:46):
studied every false religion. It's fine. It's okay. I tell
you what I know. I know that I've studied the
true and buy the true. Then we can recognize the
false and then challenge your friend. Why don't we take
some time and read the Bible together and see what
you think of it?
S1 (42:01):
Yeah. Study the truth. That's what I think now. I
have to say, if I were specializing in working with
some sect or some group, I would study it so
I could help them see what I see from Scripture.
S2 (42:16):
Yes.
S1 (42:17):
But if just generally speaking, I don't. In fact. In fact,
one of the things I discovered about Open Line when
I first started doing it, I used to get a
lot of questions about various cults of Christianity and different groups,
and they wanted me to talk about other religions. And,
you know, frankly, I'm not that good at it. Uh,
and I used to say, well, I'll give you my answer,
(42:38):
but really, what I know is the Bible.
S3 (42:41):
Right.
S1 (42:42):
And and I think people would say, oh, I'm sorry,
this guy's not that good. But they I finally taught
them not to ask me those questions so much. They
mostly asked me the questions about the Bible. So one
of the things that even I can do is we
can talk about what the Talmud says and what the
Midrash says and what the Mishnah says, because my special
area of expertise is, is Judaism. And so I'd better
know that. Yes. So it's not wrong to study other literature.
(43:03):
It's just that the most important thing I can do
is study the Bible.
S2 (43:07):
The true, the true. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Jeremy, for that question.
I hope that is helpful for you as you continue
having conversations with your friends. Our next question is from Marcia.
She listens to us in Alberta, Canada, and she says,
I've seen a version of the Bible that includes books
like Tobit and Baruch and a few others. Were these
books in the Jewish scriptures? If not, where did they
(43:29):
come from and who decided to add them?
S3 (43:32):
Good, good observation of these books. Tobit and Baruch and
some others like Maccabees and things. You'll sometimes see them
at the end of the Old Testament, in between the
Old Testament and the New Testament. In some versions of
the Bible, they were never recognized as scripture by the
in the Jewish canon, the Old Testament that we have
running from Genesis to Malachi, and that is the that
(43:56):
is the Old Testament that was always held to be
the Old Testament by the Jewish people. That was the
Old Testament during the time of Jesus. Of course, it
was just called the Torah then, or.
S1 (44:05):
The.
S3 (44:05):
Tanakh or the Tanakh. Exactly. These books actually were, you know,
helpful educational literature that was around early in the in
that time period, but were never considered. They were didactic
teaching literature, but they were never considered part of the
Scripture by the Jewish community and was not considered part
of the scriptures by the early church. They actually came
(44:26):
into that little back of the Bible, back of the
Old Testament part in the Middle Ages.
S1 (44:31):
Yeah. And actually it's later than the Middle Ages. It
the setting of the canon that that included those books.
We can put it right at 1546.
S3 (44:41):
That's why I was thinking about Middle Ages.
S1 (44:42):
Yeah. The Counter-Reformation and what it was is they, in
the response to the Reformation, uh, the setting with the Reformation,
sometimes the Counter-Reformation was trying to say, we want to
justify some of the things that we say we are
teaching there from Scripture some things that Luther and other
reformers objected to. Well, they're not in Scripture, but they
(45:04):
are in these apocryphal books, as they're called. And so
what they said is, oh, we're now going to include
these as sort of a quasi scripture along with the
Hebrew Bible. And so that's how they got in 16th century.
That's kind of a late time to.
S3 (45:20):
Like 15, 17.
S1 (45:22):
1546 is the Counter-Reformation at the Council of Trent. That's
when they brought those in. So, uh, it's certainly not, uh,
it was never considered scripture by a Judaism by be
the early church. It was only in the 16th century
that it got settled in there and brought in. But
you know what? They're kind of interesting, right? They are
(45:43):
interesting when when I took New Testament survey as a
moody student many years ago, we had to read the
Apocrypha before we read the New Testament.
S3 (45:50):
And some are inspirational stories which are encouraging and some
are historical things that are interesting and some are just
like crazy stories.
S1 (45:59):
Some of them.
S3 (45:59):
Are.
S1 (45:59):
Well, amazingly, that's the program for today.
S3 (46:03):
Wow. Out of time.
S1 (46:04):
Out of time. That's right. Thanks for listening, everyone. Especially
those of you who wrote in with your questions. As always,
thanks to Tricia McMillan for producing and for Chris Papendrecht
for putting this whole thing together with his excellent engineering skill.
Join us next week because we'll be live taking your
questions via phone. Remember, keep in touch with us by
going to our website openline radio.org. It's got links to
(46:27):
the Chosen People Ministries free resource and a link to
my own personal web page. Keep reading the Bible and
we'll talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor
Michael Melnick is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry
of Moody Bible Institute.
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