October 29, 2025 • 55 mins
On this Podcast: Dave Steinwedel and Kevin Pearce are back to talk with:
Bleacher Report's own Dan Favale talks all things NBA including the gmabling scandal, Spurs hot start, Knicks kings of the East, Sixers and some thoughts about the East and the Western Conference. (2:06-23:40)
NFL Writer Arif Hasan joins the guys to talk about the Vikings and JJ McCarthy, just how good are the Colts, Steelers repeating themselves, AJ Brown and the trade deadline and more. (23:41-END)
Bleacher Report's own Dan Favale talks all things NBA including the gmabling scandal, Spurs hot start, Knicks kings of the East, Sixers and some thoughts about the East and the Western Conference. (2:06-23:40)
NFL Writer Arif Hasan joins the guys to talk about the Vikings and JJ McCarthy, just how good are the Colts, Steelers repeating themselves, AJ Brown and the trade deadline and more. (23:41-END)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This week's Opening Kickoff Podcast is presented to you by
our friends at cegee and use promo code Opening Kickoff
All one word to get twenty dollars off your first
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(00:23):
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next event. Hello, Welcome to this week's edition of the
(01:15):
Opening Kickoff Podcast. We took a week off last week. Look,
life can get the best of us sometimes, and it
certainly got the best of most of us last week,
but we are back. We're down a couple guys. No
Peyton Grod, No Brandon Stevens, David Miles probably joining us
at some point after dad duties. So it's just me,
my host. I'm your host, Steve Steinwedel, and joined as
(01:38):
always by our great co host and friend Kevin Pierce KP.
We were just reminiscing off air about how tired we are.
How tired are you right now?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, listen, I'm moving by faith and not bysight
at this point. I'm here and we're here to give
you all a great show. So let's go ahead and
get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And we got great guests line up for you, and
we're jumping right into it because our first guess is
right here with us. He is a writer at Bleacher
Report covering the NBA. He is also the host of
the Hardwood Knocks podcast. That would be our good friend
Dan Favali. Dan, you look well rested considering that the
NBA just started. How are you doing whatever?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The opposite of well rested is I join you guys
in that pool, but can't complain, can't complain.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
If you had to describe NBA's opening week with one word.
With everything that went on, how would you describe it?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Ooh, one word?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I would say hectic chaos. Maybe maybe riveting because it
was the stuff that was happening away from the court,
with the gambling allegations and arrests and like even the
specter of the Clippers things sort of looming over everything,
and then some of the injuries. Feels like riveting is
downplaying that. But when you look at the actual games
(02:58):
that were being played and a lot of the play
you know, everyone's talking about Victor wembin Yama, but just
all these other stars or guys on the come up,
like a Tyrese maxis he now an All NBA player?
VJ edgecomb making it look like, oh, Cooper Flag might
not just win Rookie of the Year. What is the
Heats offense doing or the Bulls somehow good? It's it
was a riveting open week when you look at specifically
(03:19):
the basketball, and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That was gonna be my follow up question because you're
covering it a bleacher report. Is the attention more on
the off court shenanigans? Are we all kind of in agreement, like,
hey man, the basketball is awesome, let's not ruin this.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It does I mean, you know how the news cycle
works with these things. It felt like the gambling stuff
was huge for a minute, and now we're still getting
follow up updates from it, but people aren't in as
big of a fur as they were. And I think
it helps that you have so many games from a
night to night that one the news cycle's naturally gonna change,
But you have so many other things to focus on,
and so from my perspective, when you're looking at what
(03:54):
we do with Hardwood, Knox or a Bleach report, there's
been mostly just a focus on, oh, like, what are
these teams, what are these players? What is happening right now?
And it's a fun time of year, but it's also
sort of daunting because what are you supposed to take
away really from five games? You want to make these proclabations,
but you might look like an idiot another five games
down the road.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm just gonna say, and I do want to touch
on the gambling stuff real fast before we do get
on the on the court stuff. When all this news
broke last week with the FBI making the arrest that
they did, what was going through your head?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Why was Patel wearing a raid? FBI jacket at his
press conference. I didn't understand that at all. I thought
this is obviously newsworthy, and I'm not claiming that it's
somehow not true. We already knew so much of the
Terry Rozier stuff, though, and I just didn't understand what
felt like a lot of pomp and circumstance under we
(04:51):
have all these big names that are involved, and it's
been what has it been a week over a week
around there, and there hasn't been we know, Okay, some
of the player's reference. This might have been about Lebron
James's health, AD's health and the integrity.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Of the game is important.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So the stuff that's going on with Chauncey Bilps, with
Terry Rozier, all that stuff absolutely matters. But I just
don't know that it warranted the type of I don't know,
like they made it seem like they had more than
they did. Even when you go through the indictments, it
just makes it they made it seem like there was
more here than there actually was. And if it all
turns out to be true, yeah, Terry Rozier needs to
(05:28):
be banned. Chauncey Bilps needs to be banned. But it
just feels like there's so many unfinished pieces, and I
didn't I guess I just didn't understand the form in
which it came out, Like this wasn't to me. A
lot of it felt like recycling the Chauncey Bilb stuff.
Of course breaking news, but is that something that the
FBI needs to hold a press conference for. It felt
like there was this huge ring of people involved when
(05:51):
you especially when you're looking at the illegal poker game stuff,
and that these bigger names may have been tangentially related
and so they latched onto them. Doesn't mean that these
guys are eat or innocent, but I just the announcement,
I don't wanna say, rubbed me the wrong way. It
confused me, that that whole spectacle confused me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
All Right, I'm gonna I'm gonna be the one to
get political here. Is that? I mean, that's kind of
what it is with this administration. It's dog and pony show.
It's all right, we're gonna make a big old deal
over something that isn't nearly as big as we think
it is. It's not nothing, don't get me wrong. The
fact that Chauncey Billups missed a big shot himself an
NBA coach, was involved in the legal gambling by way
(06:29):
of poker, which we should be sure to make that distinction.
Chauncey Billups and the Terry Rogier thing are two very
different situations. One is on court, one is off court.
But I think when if Storry first got reported, the
fear was, especially from people who are more familiar with
NBA lore is we have another Tim Doneghe or Donahue,
whatever's last name was situation. But from what I'm seeing
(06:52):
right now, it doesn't look like that's it. Am.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I often that no, and I would echo what you
said that coming from the source, I'm just condition to
doubt anything that's announced by the administration. And really what
felt like was buried the league. So the Chauncey Billups stuff,
he's mostly related to that whole poker thing. But in
the indictment, I think it says it describes someone who
just fits his criteria, like someone who resides in Oregon
(07:15):
and played in the NBA and was a head coach
for this time frame. He probably passed on information to
one of the people involved in the poker ring about
who was available to play for the Blazers team One night,
and that to me was just not talked about enough
to where it's, oh, he might have just been talking
to people and the information came out, and it's well,
if you're involved in this illegal poker game with this
(07:36):
guy and you're sharing your availability of your own team
with him, there's like a weird intent there. So like,
that's the part that I found the most fascinating of
all this, which is all to say, even that wasn't
quote unquote impacting the integrity of the game. We're talking
about the victims in that scenario or mostly the sports books.
It's not you know, that wasn't impact. Those players were
never gonna play in Portland. So it's I'm with you
(07:59):
on that to where there definitely needs to be distinctions made.
This was like two or three separate things. It wasn't
even just two separate things. To me, it was a
few of them, and they're all being That was the
other thing. Why've looped them all together so that you
can confuse the hell out of everybody that was listening
to it. That's also what it felt like, All.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, let's get to the all in the court stuff,
and I'm not gonna make you make a proclamation after
five games. But after five games, after that first week,
what team has impressed you the most?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Ooh, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I think it's the Sixers, just when you look at
not having Paul George, not having Jared McCain, whatever, Joel
Embiide is right now, which there's you know, red flags
to talk about there. Tyree's Max and VJ. Edgecomb are
just quietly balling. They're playing like an absolute blur. Andre
Drummond comes in after the first game and kind of
(08:51):
helps him steady the backup big man rotation. I love
just the triple guard look of.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Quentin Grimes, VJ.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Edgecomb and Tyre's man Tellyer Brady Junior shooting the lights
out right now. I don't know what this team is.
Dominic Barlow's had a few good moments for them. I
don't know what this team is in the grand scheme
of things in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I don't expect.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Them to still be like a four seed if we're
gonna fast forward twenty five thirty games. But I kind
of had the penciled in as well. They're not too intriguing.
It's either Joel Embiid is gonna look like Joel Embiid
and be able to play like fifty or sixty games,
they might be relevant or he won't. And I think
based off that first game alone against Boston, even though
they won, I was sort of ready to go, oh,
a lot of the Sixers aren't gonna be entertaining, But
(09:34):
they've just turned my head. They're fun and as of
right now, they're good. Let's see if that holds.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So I came to a kind of different conclusion about
the Sixers and you brought up Joel Embiid. The future
of this team, as far as I'm seeing right now,
is maxi Edgecombe McCain when he gets back, quinnin Grimes.
Obviously you can't play all four of them at the
same time because defense exists. But this is the first
time in Philly that a world without Joel Embiid seems possible.
(10:06):
So how good do the Sixers have to be before
they start putting out the feelers of, hey, who wants
a former MVP on their team?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I think the tricky part there is if you gave
the front office truth serum, they might already be there.
And it's not even about oh, we're just good enough
without him. It's This might be the worst contract in
the league at this point when you look at how
much it's worth, how long it goes out. Who is
trading for Joel Embiid right now? I think that would
make this awkward conversation to where not only is in
(10:37):
Beiad's name being dragged through the rumor mill, but we
kind of saw something similar with Trey Young, not injury related.
Where's the Godfather offer coming from? Where is even just
an offer that the Sixers would take coming from for
Joel Embiid. And that's what's so weird about this dynamic,
because I agree with you the future in Philly is
very clearly Tyres Max and VJ Edgecombe, those two specifically,
(10:57):
But you still have Paul George, you still have joean Biid,
and they're not eminently movable. And are we at the
point where you just don't play those guys or you
diminish their roles to what Embiid we've seen now in
kind of those short bursts, or he's playing his normal rotation,
and then they're still not bringing him over twenty minutes.
That's not gonna fly all year.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And I think that's the thing that they need to
grapple with.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And what makes it more fun is the city that
it's in. It's Philly. The moment this it's abundantly clear
that this isn't working. The media and that fan base
is going to let the organization know about it, and
I think that's where we start to steer towards Okay,
maybe the Godfather offer isn't coming, but this is no
longer sustainable. We have to get Joel Embiid off this team,
(11:41):
and I don't think they saw that coming coming into
this year.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean, it had to be on their radar based
off how the offseason went down and like knowing his
health status. But I think again it might. I think
it's easier to come to the conclusion of we need
to move on from Joel Embiid than it is to
actually move on from Joel Embid And that's kind of
the pickle that they're in at the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
When you look at the East as a whole, the
Sixers have played well to start, but I came into
the year looking at disc going with all the injuries
Boston has, with all the injuries Indiana had when not
having Halliburton, it felt like the team I had the
most confidence in was the Knicks and said, this feels
(12:23):
like the Knicks conference to lose. Is it fair to
say that that is the case with the Knicks this year?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I would say no, just because I am pretty bullish
on the longer term, at least through this season.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Outlook of Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
When you're gonna get Darius Garland back, Max Druce back,
DeAndre Hunter will be healthier. This team is really deep.
I do wonder what their defense will kind of look
like at Isaacacorro, not too valuable of a playoff player,
but pretty valuable with them in the regular season as
a defender. But I look at the Knicks. They're trying
to learn a new offensive system. The defense right now
has been good and actually not all that lucky, but
(13:02):
I just don't look at them as a top ten defense.
I assume they'll start making wide open three pointers at
some point, but their roster is just inherently flawed. It's
so good on paper. But Karl Anthony Towns is this
generational talent who we have to accept just isn't always
gonna play like it. And I know he's hurt at
the moment. I know he's learning a new offense at
(13:22):
the moment, so is everybody else on that team.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Josh Hart was hurt to start the season. Mitchel Robinson is.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Being load managed BeForever playing a game.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Whatever that means.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
There's just something. There's something weird about New York. I
think they're still there, they'll be in the top four
if they're healthy. They're a team to watching the playoffs,
but I actually think that I think the Calves are
just better, quite frankly, and that's sort of where I'm at.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
My only issue with Cleveland is we're relying on a
lot of people whose health has been questionable. As much
as I love the Lonzo ball signing on one of
my Celtics, to grab him, especially after we got Drew
help is questionable. With him, Darres Growland's already out. We
have to see how much Evan Mobley takes that step
because they're gonna need a second score. Donovan Mitchell, I'm
(14:03):
not worried about him when it comes to the playoffs.
Donavin Mitchell does what he does. He's here to drop
his thirty eight game in a playoffs. He does it
every year. But he needs that second score, and I'm
not sure still that that guy exists on the Cavaliers
roster as opposed to New York. I know who their
second score is, Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do you That's look you know more than I do
about the Knicks then, because I don't. When you look
at how the offense gets run a lot of the times,
Karl Anthony Towns, if you put a small on him,
doesn't know how to capitalize on those mismatches, and he's
not being used in the same number of screening actions
and it just doesn't look like, you know, the game
against the Bucks, like he was playing without Jayalen Brunton
and did just kind of jack at that point. I
(14:41):
think this comes with the caveat that he's hurt, but
this has been We have a decade's worth of evidence
that all these teams are trying to figure out Karl
Anthony Towns. And to your point about Cleveland, I'd probably
share a lot of the same concerns.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I think they paper over.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think Mobile's good enough to get there and showed
so last year, and we'll see how this season plays out.
What I'm more questioning with them is the Darius Garland
Donovan Mitchell one. Can Darius Garland be healthy in the playoffs.
You mentioned if this team always seems banged up, but
like defensively, you don't really have DeAndre Hunter is probably
their best wing defender, or it's Dean Wade that's not
really Lonzo balls gig and so you if you don't
(15:16):
have an answer to that question, and you're gonna be
playing two small guards a lot of the time, what
does that look like when you have two bigs on
the court.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
What does it look like when even it's just the
mobili minutes?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
And so I think, honestly, I think you kind of
touched on why a lot of people think the East
is so wide open because we have these two really
good teams they think are mentioned in the same breath
as Oh, it's it's Cleveland or it's New York, but
they both just still have these wholesale questions about them.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Can I bring up a sneaky team that I feel
like a lot it's under the radar, but a lot
of people they have a fatal flaw, so people aren't
really looking at them. The Orlando Magic if they could
just shoot like maybe ten percent better, Like I'm not
asking for much, Orlando, Like, if you could just be
maybe ten percent better beyond the arc. I don't see
(16:00):
why they can't be the three seed. They're one of
the best defensive teams in the league. Palo Boncaro is
a bona fide superstar. When you turn it on and
the Desmond Bank sign, it looks like it's gonna be
a revelation. Like that's the one other team other than
those top two that I'm looking at, like, Okay, maybe
you guys, if you could fix this one flaw that
y'all can't seem to get over.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, And look, they're they haven't looked great so far,
but they're playing faster as well. In addition to having
like Desmond Bain, who's gonna issue better from three at
some point, they need more just out of their front court.
In general, you assume that Palo Bank Caro is gonna
become more efficient. Fron Zagner has been pretty good to
start the year, but his jumper is still he's under
thirty four percent from three. But you're right, that's the
(16:42):
I think a lot of people had them or the
Hawks as kind of a sleeper in the conference entering
the season, and it's just it's a little unnerving for
the Magic specifically that our biggest concern about them. They
went out and got Desmond Bain and it's still our
biggest concern about them.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Very true.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Over in the West, San Antonio is probably dominating the
headlines right now when you open up any of the
NBA pages. Just how good can this Spurs team be
this year?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I hit there under when we were doing our over
unders at Hardwood Knox because I looked at this as
Okay Wemby and a bunch of dudes who are intriguing,
but some of them are unfinished products. Is there enough shooting?
And I clearly just underestimated that. Oh is he a
top ten offense and defense unto himself now? And that's
not to downplay. Look, Steph Castle's look pretty good to
start the year. Devin Vessel making threes, that's my guy.
(17:39):
I love Devin Vessel. Dylan Harper looks super smooth. They
have depth on this team and Luke Cornette and Julian
CHAMPENNI so, just based off the early returns, if you're
gonna get sixty five games of this version of Victor Wemberyama,
I would be a fool to put any sort of
ceiling on the Spurs in the Western Conference because it can. Yeah,
(18:00):
what I think that they're gonna beat the Thunder in
a seven game series of the Nuggets?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Probably not.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
But like what we're watching Victim Viktor wemen Yamad do
right now, there are guys who are afraid to even
get to the free throw line on offense because he's
on the floor on defense. And now he's stronger, and
he's getting more paint touches some of themselves created. The
handle looks better, the passing is better. This is This
is mind boggling to watch. And even if you thought
that Wenby was gonna be this good, I still struggled
(18:27):
to think what the rest of the team would look
like around him. It's looked pretty good so far. And
they don't even have Aaron Fox yet, which is that's
just like an all star floating around on that roster.
That's a great I know people are concerned about the fit,
myself included. When you look at Castle on Harper, that
is an excellent problem to have. It's like, oh, how
do we make these like three super talented players work together.
(18:47):
I at this point, I'm just gonna say, through Wemby,
all things seem possible, and so I won't hesitate to
put a ceiling on the Spurs this season.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The key words you use theirs ceiling because the takes
are getting more and more hyperb look on Wenby as
the days go by, but none of it feels out
the realm of possibility yet. Like I've been calling him
a horror movie monster for the past two years because
at his best, it literally looks like nobody even almost
wants to challenge him in the paint, and then he's
(19:16):
coming down on the other end of the floor and
breaking people down to the top of the key half
his size. Like like you said, if we get to
sixty five games of this of what is he right now?
Like thirty ten five blocks game something something something like that,
So something ridiculous. If that's what we're getting all year long,
(19:36):
why can't they be a fifty win team? Why can't
they be a top four seed in the West, And
then when you get to the playoffs you got to
deal with that for seven games.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Now, what he is, he's a human hyperbole.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I don't think there's anything you could say where I
would be yo, there's He's definitely not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
He's just he's a human hyperbole.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I'm just gonna say it to me. It all hinges
right now. And Wenby's healthy because you can see it's
a team built to play to his strengths. When you
look at the West, you mentioned the Thunner, you mentioned
the Nuggets. We sort of talked about the surprise of
the East so far, besides the Spurs, which everybody's talking about,
who's the team in the West that we should be
(20:14):
watching out for that maybe we're not talking about right now.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Probably, I mean there are people are talking about them,
so this feels like a cop out. But probably the
Golden State Warriors health is going to be a question
with them too, because they're so darn old. But their
defense is terrifying. They against the Clippers the other night,
when Steph was off the floor and Jimmy Butler was
on it, they limited the Clippers offense to point seven
eight points per possession. This team doesn't even have the
(20:41):
Anthony Milton yet. If he comes back and healthy, that's
kind of like another three and D guy, and I
will argue that their defense hasn't even come close to peaking.
At the moment I thought their defense was going to
play their offense, and so far it's been the other
way around. So if you're able to insulate Steph enough
to where sometimes you get those nights where the Clippers
game being he plays like twenty five minutes instead of
(21:02):
having to get to that thirty two to thirty four threshold,
He's like, like, you're sitting golden. And so if you
can be a semblance of healthy, that's a team that
I think you can loop into with the Thunder and
the Nuggets in that upper retionalont of title contenders in
the West.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
We've had a lot of insane performances to start the year,
fifty pieces from even an Austin Reeves. What are we
to make of this? Do teams just come out this
summer ready to go? Is it a poor defense thing?
What's happening right now?
Speaker 4 (21:35):
I do.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I am a big believer that defense takes longer to
catch up when you're coming out of training camp than
the offense. And I also do believe that kind of
just in this era that we play in where there's
going to be more three pointers taken, where guys also
know as an offensive player. Look at Austin Reeves against
the Kings the other night, know how to game the
rules so that they're going to draw these fouls, stop
(21:57):
the clock, get those free throw opportunities, and then let's
go ahead and factoring. All right, there's a lot of
these teams are gonna play with pace and offensive rebounding
is coming back, so if there's a misshot like, these
teams are gonna try and crash and get another possession
out of it. It just seems like there are more
opportunities and more ways through which these players can go kaboom.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
I know some people don't.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Like it, and you look at a footnote and it's, oh,
Austin Reeves having these what feels like nightly forty burgers
or whatever. They are probably a little weird, but Austin
Reeves is also really good, and I've enjoyed a lot
of the scoring outbursts so far. It's fascinating to see
like these guys come out of the gate and what
they're able to just.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Drop as as a vie. Just to be clear, I
just hope it continues till like February where we're still
watching these guys. There gonna not like obviously no one's
gonna average forty fifty game, but just every so often
we get one of these explosions. It's fun to watch.
Just go for the league.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It is Dan, we have kid ready to wrap this up.
I do want to ask this one obvious Laker question.
Can Lebron propel this team to be a playoff threat?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I'm sure. I look, I'm not gonna want to face
I'm not gonna want to face a team in the
playoffs if you have a healthy that has a healthy
Lebron and Luca and Austin Reeves. But I think one
of the issues with the Lakers, and like some of
the numbers aren't always gonna bear it out, Like the
fact that they're fifteenth, is that is that right in
defense so far this year? That's gotta be a type
I need double check that, all right, they're seventeenth, Like
(23:26):
I look at them as the bottom five defensive team
with that talent, and so I think the center rotation
is still very shallow. They don't have a lot of
two way wings. They're really Gabe Vincent is injured again
in addition to Luca and Lebron. At the moment, I
could they be a playoff team? Yes, I think if
they get into the playoffs, it'll be by way of
the playing, and I'm not really I mean, you put
(23:47):
Luca in a best of seven series, sure, but I
will say I would be pretty surprised even if they're healthy,
if this is a team that wins a playoff series.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I'm right there with you. They got I think we're
finally at the point where, hey, guys, there's too many
good teams in the West. We haven't even touched on
the Toberwolves today, but like, there's too many good teams, and.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The Edwards hurt too. All these injuries I could do without.
And look, Kevin, you were saying something about could the
scoring continue until February, and in my head, I was like,
there's like no way. But the average defensive rating right
now is basically what it was all of last year,
and so we're not even just we're seeing these outlier
individual performances without it over correcting league wide. And so
(24:30):
maybe we are gonna get Austin Reeves dropping fifty points
right through the All Star break.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Perhaps, And I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
All right, Well, Dan, we appreciate the time. We can't
wait to see you back here on this podcast again
talking some NBA with us.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Thanks Denely thank you guys for having me as always.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
All Right, we are gonna step aside and be right
back after this.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
All right.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Our thanks to Dave forvali you Bleacher Report for talking
all things NBA with us. Dave Steinwittle kp here with
you and we mentioned this as a loaded show. We
got some great guests on and none better. One of
my favorite people to talk football with. He writes at
Wide Left Football. He has some Norse Code podcasts that
(25:14):
would be our friend back with us, Ari Hassan Arive.
Great to have you back on.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
How you doing, dude, I'm doing great. You must want
me on the show because I've been. I led you
around on those emails for like two weeks before we
got that schedule figured out.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I really appreciate your patience. Man. Hey, look, you're one
of one of our favorites to have on this show.
I'm absolutely gonna do what I can to get you on.
So how have you enjoyed this football season so far?
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Despite following the vikings? Yeah, actually it's been. It's been
fun to see like Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold and
Drake May just kind of like go off in ways
I didn't expect. I love seeing Baker Mayfield be just
a complete dickhead out of it. Can I say that
by all means?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Man?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
I love when he does that. And he's playing well too,
So I'm having a lot of fun with the season.
But the Vikings, you know, maybe not as much, and
I don't know, it's just all part of the process.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So that's actually a great place for us to start,
because you covered the Vikings last year and Daniel Jones
obviously got signed there in the middle of the season.
Is there a rehabilitation project that's happening in Minnesota that
we all don't worry about. I mean that we're all
just not privy too, Like what's happening there that they're
now Foster's home for rehabilitating quarterbacks?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
It seems like it right because Sam Darnolds there a
whole season. Now, he's like leading the league in some
metrics like EPA, Daniel Jones has it, he's leading the
league in explosives, and you know, Joshua Dobbs had the
best games of his career there. Nick Mullins, I think
is the career leader in EPA per play, which is crazy. Yeah,
like every Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Nick Mullins at the
(26:56):
top there, and a lot of that's because of his
play with the Vikings, and it very much seems like
he does a lot to maximize these quarterbacks. I think,
you know, Kirk Cousins, I think statistically had better seasons
with other offensive coordinators, but I think everyone agrees that
he played best with Kevin O'Connell, and it certainly he
seems to have an understanding of how to get quarterbacks
(27:18):
to get the most out of them. But then, you know,
this year, we're seeing some pretty subpar play, if we
want to call it that from Carson Wentz. We haven't
seen anything good from the young second year player, first
year playing JJ McCarthy thus far, and so maybe a
little bit of ding on his reputation there, but it
(27:39):
certainly seems like, you know, the quarterbacks that have passed
through the Vikings have done some really extraordinary stuff with him,
and then and then after they've had time with him.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So I hate to just dive full Vikings to start
the podcast, but we're here. So the JJ McCarthy thing, right,
I think the shadow benching that the room was going around,
that the ankle injuries is blah blah blah. I think
that's crazy, Like, the man hasn't started five games yet, Guys,
give him a second. But if this doesn't work out?
(28:09):
How bad does not signing Sam Darnold look In hindsight?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
It looks bad like optically, but I don't think like
I personally would have a difficult time judging it because
I think they didn't have a chance to sign him, right,
because if they signed him, they would be telling him
you're in a competition with this guy now, or you're
the backup to this guy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Right.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
He was not going to be assured a starting job,
and if I were, I would only want to go
to a place where I'm asured of starting job. And
that's what Seattle offered him, and that's where he went.
And I don't know that the Vikings had the cap
flexibility to offer him something to the degree that Seattle did,
So I don't know that they had an opportunity with
the understanding that they were going to give JJ McCarthy
(28:53):
a chance. Now you could say, hey, maybe they shouldn't
have just given this guy a chance, but I don't
know any NFL team that after a rookie has missed
a whole season that they drafted in the first round
is not going to give that guy a chance to start.
So it looks bad, But I don't know how much
I personally judge it. I just think, you know, they
made a misevaluation with McCarthy, or they should have steered
(29:16):
hard in a situation where almost no NFL teams would
steer hard and say, hey, you played really well for us.
Last year was a fourteen win season. We're just gonna
sign you and you're gonna start. And this other guy
we've got under cost control and he's gonna just have
to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And I'm interested in the hole. JJ McCarthy, Sam Darnold
and even to the Daniel Jones debate. But I'm with
you in the sense that I don't think it's fair
to judge J. J. McCarthy because here's the other thing
to talk about, too, is he didn't have Jordan Addison
at the beginning of the year, and that offense is
(29:51):
a different offense when you have Justin Jefferson and Jordan
Addison on the outside. So realistically, I reef, what do
you I kind of expect as McCarthy gets ready to
come back this week and going forward now that he's
gonna have pretty close to his full compliment of what
that Viking offense is supposed to look like.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I think that that is important context to have. And
I think that the offense that was called for him
versus the offense that was called for Wentz was a
little bit different one that accommodated the challenges that were
present with the offensive line problems the Vikings had that
he didn't have access to in those first two games.
But I do think that even if you kind of
give him all of this, right, even if you talk
about like the missing left tackle, the missing you know,
(30:34):
wide receiver, those suspended for three games, and all of
these other elements, I still think he drastically underperformed because
I'm taking a look at young quarterbacks in worse situations.
Once you even account for this, and you know, like
there are a lot of quarterbacks that have had to
start without any premiere receivers, you know, he still had
justin Jefferson, right, there are quarterbacks who've had to start
with backup left tackles. There are quarterbacks who've had to
(30:57):
start with backup right tackles, right, and you and a
really good example of that would be like justin fields
of Chicago. No one thinks that he that he ever
had a good career in Chicago, and he didn't have
very much support And I would argue that his rosters
in almost every one of those games was worse than
any of the rosters that that McCarthy had in those
two games. And he still performed better than McCarthy did. Right,
(31:17):
He performed poorly, but he performed better than McCarthy did.
And that's a really difficult, you know, thing to kind
of come to terms with.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Right.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I think that that Drake May his rookie year, had
a worse supporting cast than McCarthy had in those games.
And so we still does right and look at what
he's doing, right and so and so like it is
important to understand kind of what challenges McCarthy had, but
to also be honest about the level of play you
expect to give in those challenges and where he is
(31:48):
relative to that level of playing. I think he was
below that. That said, I don't think the book is
written on him. It's just two games, it's just eight quarters,
and you know, once we have a full season of play,
it won't be enough information. It's really different to get
a good read on how good a quarterback is gonna be.
You know, we always talk about like, you know, Josh
Allen after his rookie year improved drastically. But he's not
the only one, right, He's not a lone example. I
(32:09):
mean Jared Goff after his rookie year that was a
terrible rookie season. He turned out to be a Pro
Bowl quality quarterback. Matthew Stafford's rookie year, I think a
lot of people gave excuses for because of injury, but
the production was very poor and he turned out to
be a high level quarterback. So and they're countless examples
of that, right, And so if if one season, if
sixteen games is not enough, then certainly two isn't right.
(32:31):
And so I think that having Jornanadisen there, maybe having
Christian Darrisaw there is kind of like a recurring injury
question with him. That's gonna be good. It sounds like
Brian O'Neil is gonna be back to that's gonna be great.
He's still gonna be missing a center. Ryan Kelly is
still out with the concussion. He's on ir with the
second concussion of the season, and so you've got your
(32:52):
maybe backup backup center in I don't know they benched
the backup center for this guy. So I don't know
what we think about that quality of play, but that
is that is going to be an issue, and against
a pretty good Lions team, you know, we might not
get still a full understanding of who McCarthy is. So
I do want a caution that we do just have
(33:14):
to wait. But on film, there's just like not a
lot there yet to suggest he has improved a lot
in his development process. He drifts in the pocket, he
invites pressure, he holds on the ball, that kind of stuff. Right,
His accuracy is not fully there. But you know, I
do think that there's a lot of potential. He's one
of the youngest quarterbacks we've ever seen drafted, and there's
(33:36):
a lot more growth for him yet to come. I
just don't know that this year we're going to see
the Vikings turn around their season with him.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I think that's a fair assessment. But let's talk about
a guy that's turned around a franchise in Daniel Jones.
I mean, I don't think there's a pundon out there
that could have seen what Daniel Jones as doing with
this Colts team. And how much when you see the
Colts are do you attribute to Daniel Jones's almost maturation
(34:10):
at the quarterback position here.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
I think quite a bit. I think you take a
look at how the Colts are playing and what's happening
to kind of produce these explosives, because sometimes you know,
there are quarterbacks that are producing at a really high
level that a lot of people kind of like how
they're playing, and I'm a little bit more skeptical. I
think bo Nicks is a good example of that right now,
and sometimes I'm wrong. That's how I felt about Jared
Goff early in his Lion's career when he was producing
(34:34):
at a high level, and I think I was wrong
about that. But you know, sometimes you're just like, I
don't know how much of that is the quarterback And
that's not the feeling I get from Daniel Jones and
watching him play the deep ball accuracy is outstanding. I
was actually taking a look at points per drive since
since the year two thousand, right, I wanted to see
how the Colts offense ranked in points per drive, you know,
(34:54):
up against the two thousand and four Colts, the two
and seven Patriots, the twenty eleven backwards, all of these
historic offenses. And not only are the twenty twenty five
Colts number one since the year two thousand, which probably
means in league history, right, not only the number one,
they're number one by like a pretty substantial margin. The
difference between them in the two thousand and seven Patriots
we're second is the same as like the difference between
(35:17):
the Patriots and like twenty fifth. Like, it is crazy
how and that's going to regress a little bit, but
it is crazy how productive they're being. And I love
like Alec Pierce, I really like some of these receivers,
but like, if we're being honest, like Alec Pierce is
a good receiver, I don't think he's a great receiver.
To be able to produce at this level without great
receivers is awesome. Now, obviously you've got an MPB candidate
(35:38):
Jonathan Taylor doing a lot. That offensive line has kind
of jelled together, Quentin Nelson's playing at a level that
he hasn't played it two three years. That's all helping
a ton, right, But I think when you take a
look at Daniel Jones's process, how quickly he gets rid
of the ball on explosive plays, how often he kind
of leverages, the process of the defense, and where he's
(35:59):
going to kind of his eyes before the snap. All
of that's there. I think the one thing is that
I think he holds on to his first read a
little bit too long. I think that it is kind
of difficult for him to continue processing past that first read.
And that's kind of where my criticisms kind of end,
because it is really accurate. He does have mobility in
the pocket, he does know when to run, he does
(36:20):
know when to kind of scramble to buy time. There
is there's some pretty outstanding stuff there, and he's performing
really well under pressure. So I think a lot of
it's Daniel Jones. I think it helps a ton to
be able to score points off of like an eighty
R Jonathan Taylor run like that. That doesn't suck, right,
But I think I think he's doing a lot to help.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
You. Brought up exactly where I wanted to go next.
I need y'all both to tell me whether I'm crazy
or not because I made a comment about this on
one of my videos this week. Jonathan Taylor needs two
touchdowns a game to break Ladani and Thomasin's all time.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Record said thirty one touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Jesus thirty one. So he needs to a game from
the for the end of this season. Yeah, he's had
I believe it's four to three touchdown games already to
start the year.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Yeah, which is I think like sixth most or something
like that in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Am I crazy for thinking he's gonna get it? Unless
it's a Saquon situation where they decide to sit him
the last week of the season, which, guys, please don't.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Like.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I'm still mad at the Eagles for doing that. I
don't care if you won a Super Bowl, God damn
you robbed us of a record. But like, am I
crazy for thinking that this is very feasible for him?
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I don't think you are right because I think in
addition to right, like the fact that he's already produced
this much this far, we know that he's a good player,
right Like, we know that he's he's a big player
that runs fast. That helps, But his vision is outstanding.
His first step is really really explosive. They rely on
him a lot in the red zone, which gives him
a lot of those touchdown opportunities. The one area right
(37:53):
that he's gonna fall short of of Legeni and Thomas's.
I don't think he's gonna pass for any touchdowns, so
we're getting we're not getting any of those. But I
think that when you've got a guy who currently leads
the league in rushing yardage, that has already once led
the league in rushing yardage and rushing touchdowns, that last
year had like fourteen hundred yards, right, that is consistently
(38:14):
producing at this rate, and has an offensive line that
is giving him the space and a play caller that
is giving him those opportunities, I think absolutely he's it
is well within his capability. Here's the thing, this is
one of the lower attempts per game he's gotten thus far.
He's actually had fewer attempts per game as a rusher
(38:34):
than he did last year by about three and a
half attempts per game, which is a lot, right, And
he had nineteen point five attempts per game in twenty
twenty one, and he's getting barely eighteen in this game now.
So the fact that they're not even using him that
much thus far, and I think they will use him more,
not less, as the season goes on, I think really
(38:56):
tells us a lot. And what's really really kind of
like brings this home for me is you take a
look at the first half second half splits for the
Colts and how often they throw the ball on how
often they run the ball. They're crushing teams, right, they're
killing it and they're running away, and so they're running
the ball a fair amount in the second half, but
it's not always with Jonathan Taylor, and the fact that
(39:16):
he's currently leading the league in touchdowns and yards and
attempts despite that fact tells me that when the games
are closer, they're still gonna lean on him a lot,
and they're still gonna use him in red zone situations.
He still has the ability to kind of catch and
run for a couple of touchdowns. I think he has
two touchdowns through the air, right, So I don't think
that you're crazy. I think it's unlikely. It's always unlikely
to break a record, no matter kind of where you
(39:37):
are in the process, until you're at the very end.
So I don't think it's I think it's less likely
to happen, but I don't think it's outside the realm
of possibility by any means.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
KP mentioned that the Eagles a little bits all about
Sakwon Barkley and the trade deadline is coming up next week?
Is it possible, are Eve that we see AJ Brown
get trad.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Please God to please footballs if you're listening, please.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
That would be so interesting?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Right?
Speaker 5 (40:08):
So I have one really stupid take and one probably
more measured take.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Can we here's the dumb one first?
Speaker 5 (40:15):
Obviously, the stupid one is that the Eagles are a
team that are fueled by hate, and so they need
to keep a J. Brown on the team so they
can continue creating the locker room discord that won in
the Super Bowl last year. Like I think I think
the amount that they absolutely despise each other kind of
like a Kobe Shack situation, the amount that they absolutely
(40:37):
despise each other has fueled their ability to kind of
gut out these games and win them. So that's the
stupid take.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
The it's not really not dumb and hot sit Like,
the more you kept talking, I'm like, ah, it is
philly like.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
But I think the other side of that is, like
they could use some help on defense, like getting uh
in edge rusher that's not branded, you know, that would help,
and you know, like or or figuring out what's kind
of happening at cornerback, right, Like, I know that they
love Cooper and quinnyon, but I think like that third
(41:16):
quarterback spot is is a concern into question, right.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think, just to clarify for the listeners, I think
they just made a move for somebody today. Hold that.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
It was for Michael Carter, the corner from the Jets.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
There we go flipping, that's not real. I don't okay.
I mean that's a real you didn't break fake news.
That's a real trade. But like that to me does.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Not mean it's better than what they had at that corner.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
That's right, it is better, you're that's a good point is.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
It's no longer in that negative. It might be in
that neutral, but it's no longer in that negative.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
So like so that that that could that could help
and maybe that will diminish their likelihood of wanting to
get another corner. But like, the edge rusher situation is
pretty dire. The depth that tackle is pretty bad. Like
you got Jillen Carter, Jordan Davis, that's awesome. It depends
on whether not you count Moro Jooma's an edge rusher
defensive tackle He's good obviously at what he does, but
(42:15):
I think the heavy rotation there is going to diminish
the effectiveness of these guys down the season. You want
one more guy there. Obviously, trading aj Brown for a
depth defensive tackle is not what's going to happen. But
if you traded for multiple players, you traded for consideration
or maybe like a backup receiver to go with DeVonta
Smith and Johan Dotson along with you know, a starting
(42:35):
quality defensive end, and like, there's a lot of opportunities
here for them to improve and kind of reset themselves
on the path to winning on Super Bowl, because that's
kind of obviously the trajectory that they're on right now.
They had a rough two game stretch and then they
get right game against the Vikings and then continued it
the next week, right, So yeah, I could see them
(42:56):
do it. It's just if a team is willing to
give up because they don't want to pick right they
want players. If a team is willing to trade for
a player and give up a player, which is always
a really tough spot to find because usually they either
want picks or want to give away picks, that I
think is kind of the area that you need to
be in. But I could see it.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
The trade deadline is around the corner. Who should we
have our eye on that might be on the move.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
I wish I could say Miles Garrett, but the Browns
were like pretty pretty clear that they weren't going to
get rid of that guy, which, like, okay, man, God,
good good for you. That would have been real nice.
But yeah, no, there's like I think that with the
aiden O'Connell coming back from the Raiders and the Raiders
(43:43):
just not being in a spot to do anything, you
could see like a Canny Pickett trade to a team
that absolutely needs a backup quarterback. That's kind of small
potatoes obviously, in terms of like these these roster trade decisions.
You could see maybe a Jalen Waddle trade. I would
love to see that, just because I would like to
see Jayleen Waddle in a different offense that kind of
(44:04):
respects itself.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I don't know how else to put it.
Speaker 5 (44:09):
Oh dear God, that would be pretty nice. Other than that,
like I think the Steelers are gonna kind of hold
onto everybody because like, despite themselves, they are winning. Maybe
a Chase Young trade again to see him move around
I could see that because I don't think the Saint's
going anywhere, but he's playing like really really outstandingly. But yeah,
(44:30):
it seems like a lot of the guys that we
would want on the trade block. A lot of teams
have come out and said like, uh no, actually that guy,
like we're gonna hold onto that guy and make him
miserable forever. And it's like, oh, I respect it, but like,
please don't.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
There are two quarterbacks in particular I was looking at
is a maybe until I saw Kirk Cousins play football
this past Sunday. I was like, surely somebody is going
to move for that guy. Yeah, And I don't know
what the Giants are doing with Jameis Winston, but he
someone has to put this man on the field before
the season ends. Outside of when Jackson Dard never hurts himself,
(45:06):
but somebody is gonna have to put him. Listen, listen,
I've watched Jackson dar play enough. It's coming, like I'm saying,
Giants fans, I'm warning you now, like it's coming, like
until he learns how to slide a run out of mounds,
it's coming.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
Like he's too busy juking out like Zach Bond to
concern himself with safety exist.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I'm just like, bro, you got the first down already,
my guy, Like, just down, He's done your job.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Like, can you get sure you get traded back to Cleveland?
That's my Like that would be so.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Funny, dude, speaking of Cleveland, can they just trade Shador please?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Like, no, No, he's gonna start, He's gonna start.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I just watched.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I just watched the whole game. I'm a Patriots fan.
I just watched Dylan Gabriel for an entire sunday of football. Hey, dog,
if you want to convince me that he's your best
option at quarterback, stop disrespecting that and sent him to
a team that wants them, because clearly you don't.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
You're not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
You're not gonna convince me after watching what is in
that three weeks to Dylan Gabriel that you genuinely and
your heart of hearts think that that's your best option
at quarterback. Stop it, bro, stop it, stop it.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Today.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You don't want them.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
They did value him more than any other NFL team.
They picked them first, right.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
They picked them into third round and he's five foot two.
Oh that that's why Cleveland's Cleveland, right there, folks, we
figured it out. That's why Cleveland's Cleveland.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Yeah, it would be fun. It would be fun to
see issue George Andrews trade. I don't see it coming,
just because I think him being kind of weird has
put off some NFL teams for being interested. Like the
the the pantomime press conference was kind of odd, and
I think just generally speaking, that unusualness like turns people off.
But I do think that, first of all, I canny
(46:55):
pick a trade to Cleveland is so funny. I love
that idea. But I do you think I do think
that you're right that the gym Is Winston scenario is
really appealing potentially to a lot of teams because Winston
will make games exciting, like he's like he's always yeah, yeah,
he's good TV. And and there's a lot of bad
(47:15):
quarterbacks that aren't. And I don't know that Jamis is
a bad quarterback. He's just not a good one, right,
Like like like someone's getting a touchdown and you're never
really sure which team it's gonna be, but he's gonna
throw it. And sometimes it's like really useful for you
if you're a bad team. Right, So, so like there,
I think that there's something that you can get if
your season is kind of moving backwards or your spot
(47:37):
like the Jets. Oh my god, the Jets could use
the heck out of it. Yeah, especially with like whaty
Garrett Wilson's gonna come back soon. Just say it, just
like heave it deep man, Just like let them figure
it out downfield, and that will create enough space for Bristol.
You might win a couple of games and save a
job here there.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
He doesn't even have to move move taking stuff from
the locker like what down the hall?
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And you know what, the New York media would love
them as the Jets quarterback.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
Oh my god, they would, would they ever?
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It'd be the greatest thing they've had since God, it'd
be the greatest quarterback they've had since Rogers.
Speaker 5 (48:17):
Better, better player, better quote?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Why not? We just figured it out. That's the big
trade of the deadline. The Jets are trading for Jameis Winston.
We figured it out, guys, Good job, all right.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I have to ask this question about the Steelers. Does
it feel like we're watching history repeat itself again?
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Like as in, like they end up with a winning
season and might back themselves in the playoffs, but no
one takes them seriously because they're not good like that.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yes, like that's I'm beginning. I thought early on seriously,
I thought early on, I said, Okay, this feels different.
And now I'm starting to watch them again, I'm going
still can't really run the ball, really relying on a
forty one year old quarter back in one of the
toughest divisions in football. Defense isn't appreciably better than it
(49:07):
was last year.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I think it might be appreciably worse.
Speaker 5 (49:09):
I think it's worse.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, I was gonna say, like, at a minimum, it's
not it's the same. I'm sitting here going this, I
feel like we've seen this before with Pittsburgh, and it
feels like we're just watching this on repeat for the
last five or six years. What is your take on
the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (49:28):
I so it's it's always pretty difficult to bet against
Tomlin in terms of like what the end of year
result is going to be. Like last year, I was like,
there's no way to go five hundred, and they do.
But I'm gonna double down. I'm gonna be like, no,
I don't think I think they're on the precipice of
like disaster collapse. Like I think they're actually close this
time to having it actually fall apart, like I think so.
(49:51):
So we talked about Dylan Gabrielle, right, so he is
he is one of the most yards after catch for
lank quarterbacks in the NFL. Right, Like we can all
agree on that. I looked up this at earlier today.
Fifty six percent of his yards come after the catch
number two in the NFL. It's crazy how much of
his jarge come out to the catch because he's only
thrown short fifty six percent, and there's a there's a
gap between him and number three, which is at like
(50:13):
fifty one percent. That's that's a huge gap. Number one
is Aaron Rodgers at sixty five percent.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yikes.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
It is crazy how much they are relying on these receivers,
which I get, like DK Metcalf getting the ball and running.
I saw him doing eighty yards in Dublin against the Vikings,
right Like that was a time to be alive. Right,
But I don't think that you can build an offense
out of that. I don't think that you can have
a reliable, sustainable offense that entirely relies on these receivers
(50:43):
catching short passes and then mustling their way to the
end zone. I think that over time that diminishes in
its effectiveness, and we've seen offenses that kind of rely
on it end up having to retool themselves or die.
Like the Chiefs offense was really yack reliant two three
years ago and it just didn't get the done, and
so they started getting more explosives despite not having any receivers.
(51:03):
They were just like, we have to get the ball
deeper somehow. And these offenses kind of they if they
rely entirely on this, they just kind of die. And
so I think that the Steelers don't have options to
produce explosives. Despite having Calvin Austin and DK Metcalf and
these guys that are really good at getting open deep,
they just don't have an offensive line or a quarterback
(51:24):
that really want to play that game. And so I
think that's going to fall apart. I think the fact
that they have the most old fashioned, old school defense
in the NFL where anybody who's played it multiple times
can Joe Flacco eviscerated them. And that's because he knows
where the bones are buried. He's played against this exact
same style of defense for a decade and so and so,
when you're the only team in the league running like
(51:45):
spot drop country cover three, right, teams are going to
figure it out. They're going to demolish you. And so
you're only playing like man coverage cover one or country
cover three. Every other team is switched to like pattern
match or mixing or cover six or whatever. They have
more complex defenses. Quarterbacks are figuring that, and so I
think the defense is falling apart. I think that the
It wouldn't shock me, actually if the if like some
(52:07):
Steelers players decided to just kind of go Rogan run
their own defense, Like I think it's that dire that
like that you just can't be running the same two
concepts on defense, like it's twenty eleven, right, Like, I
think that you're in a bad spot that way, and
I think the offense is unsustainable. So I just I
cannot see them going over five hundred again. And I
(52:27):
can't wait to eat these words at the end of
the season.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
All right, So before we let you go, there is
the game of the weekend, the CBS Classic, the Chiefs
Versus the Bills, that's going on this weekend. How do
you see that game plan out?
Speaker 5 (52:39):
So fun, dude, And no one's talking about the Bills
that much this year, which I find kind of interesting. Like, yeah,
I know the Panthers aren't a good team, but beating
up any team forty to nine is incredible. And the
way James Cook just went off, and it's it's nice
to see Josh Allen have like an appreciable running game
to work with. We've had that for two seasons now,
and it's it's it's a true joy to watch. That
(52:59):
defense has gotten a little bit better. We've seen more
from their pass rush than we've seen in the past.
We've seen, you know, Christian Benford come into his own.
That that is a truly exciting and fun team and
I'm glad that they're gonna get more of the spotlight.
But the Chiefs are like back, like like they're oh yeah,
way back yeah. And so like the last three four weeks,
the Chiefs are top five in every offensive category I
(53:20):
care about, yards per play EPA, for play success, right whatever,
They're in the top five in every one of those.
After since getting Rashid Rice back and like having Xavier
Worthy healthy, having Rashid Rice back, you know, having Travis
Kelcey do whatever it is that he does to get open, Like,
having all of that together has given them just enough
(53:42):
tools for Patrick Mahomes to be crazy and go off.
And I've always kind of believed in that in that
Chiefs defense, And so that's gonna be a ton of
fun because we're gonna see two good offenses against two
good defenses, which you don't actually get a ton of
in the NFL, and having that kind of b spotlight
it is gonna be big. Personally, I think it's gonna
be the Bill. I think the Bills are probably gonna
(54:03):
win this game, and then I think in the playoffs
they're gonna rematch and the Chiefs are gonna grab it. Like,
I think that's probably what's gonna happen. It's gonna be
painful again, it's gonna be kind of a classic Buffalo scenario.
But man, this Bill's team is real good.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
It's real good, all right, all right, if I'm gonna
get you out of here on this. The Ravens are
the topic of conversation. Lamar Jackson is back. Can the
Ravens go on a run? In your eyes?
Speaker 5 (54:27):
I depend on what that means. I think the defense
is not reparable. I think you can't really fix a
lot of those problems. But with Lamar Jackson, I think
that they'll they'll make the playoffs. I don't think anybody
in the AFC North can challenge them, and so I
think despite the fact that what two three games behind,
I think they make up that difference. I think it's
one of the rare situations that part with the season,
you can make up a three game difference. Lamar Jackson
(54:50):
has been playing really well before his injuries this year.
He was playing almost better than he was last year.
Last year was some of the best quarterback play we've
ever seen from him, and I think you'll get back
to that because that passing offense is a ton of
fun to watch. And then of course you've got you know,
Derek Henry is back. He's struggling for the first couple
of games. I think they get it. I think they
overcome this like three game or whatever deficit and make
(55:12):
it to the playoffs. But beyond that, the defense is
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
All right, right, Thanks for our friend Ari Fassan, who
does a great job covering the NFL and on the North.
Code for Ari Fassan, for Dan Favali, for Kevin Pierce.
I'm Dave soominal. This has been the opening Kickoff podcast
This week's Opening Kickoff Podcast is presented to you by
our friends at cegee and use promo code Opening Kickoff
All one word to get twenty dollars off your first
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next event. Hello, Welcome to this week's edition of the
(01:15):
Opening Kickoff Podcast. We took a week off last week. Look,
life can get the best of us sometimes, and it
certainly got the best of most of us last week,
but we are back. We're down a couple guys. No
Peyton Grod, No Brandon Stevens, David Miles probably joining us
at some point after dad duties. So it's just me,
my host. I'm your host, Steve Steinwedel, and joined as
(01:38):
always by our great co host and friend Kevin Pierce KP.
We were just reminiscing off air about how tired we are.
How tired are you right now?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I mean, listen, I'm moving by faith and not bysight
at this point. I'm here and we're here to give
you all a great show. So let's go ahead and
get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
And we got great guests line up for you, and
we're jumping right into it because our first guess is
right here with us. He is a writer at Bleacher
Report covering the NBA. He is also the host of
the Hardwood Knocks podcast. That would be our good friend
Dan Favali. Dan, you look well rested considering that the
NBA just started. How are you doing whatever?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The opposite of well rested is I join you guys
in that pool, but can't complain, can't complain.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
If you had to describe NBA's opening week with one word.
With everything that went on, how would you describe it?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Ooh, one word?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I would say hectic chaos. Maybe maybe riveting because it
was the stuff that was happening away from the court,
with the gambling allegations and arrests and like even the
specter of the Clippers things sort of looming over everything,
and then some of the injuries. Feels like riveting is
downplaying that. But when you look at the actual games
(02:58):
that were being played and a lot of the play
you know, everyone's talking about Victor wembin Yama, but just
all these other stars or guys on the come up,
like a Tyrese maxis he now an All NBA player?
VJ edgecomb making it look like, oh, Cooper Flag might
not just win Rookie of the Year. What is the
Heats offense doing or the Bulls somehow good? It's it
was a riveting open week when you look at specifically
(03:19):
the basketball, and.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That was gonna be my follow up question because you're
covering it a bleacher report. Is the attention more on
the off court shenanigans? Are we all kind of in agreement, like,
hey man, the basketball is awesome, let's not ruin this.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It does I mean, you know how the news cycle
works with these things. It felt like the gambling stuff
was huge for a minute, and now we're still getting
follow up updates from it, but people aren't in as
big of a fur as they were. And I think
it helps that you have so many games from a
night to night that one the news cycle's naturally gonna change,
But you have so many other things to focus on,
and so from my perspective, when you're looking at what
(03:54):
we do with Hardwood, Knox or a Bleach report, there's
been mostly just a focus on, oh, like, what are
these teams, what are these players? What is happening right now?
And it's a fun time of year, but it's also
sort of daunting because what are you supposed to take
away really from five games? You want to make these proclabations,
but you might look like an idiot another five games
down the road.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I'm just gonna say, and I do want to touch
on the gambling stuff real fast before we do get
on the on the court stuff. When all this news
broke last week with the FBI making the arrest that
they did, what was going through your head?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Why was Patel wearing a raid? FBI jacket at his
press conference. I didn't understand that at all. I thought
this is obviously newsworthy, and I'm not claiming that it's
somehow not true. We already knew so much of the
Terry Rozier stuff, though, and I just didn't understand what
felt like a lot of pomp and circumstance under we
(04:51):
have all these big names that are involved, and it's
been what has it been a week over a week
around there, and there hasn't been we know, Okay, some
of the player's reference. This might have been about Lebron
James's health, AD's health and the integrity.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Of the game is important.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
So the stuff that's going on with Chauncey Bilps, with
Terry Rozier, all that stuff absolutely matters. But I just
don't know that it warranted the type of I don't know,
like they made it seem like they had more than
they did. Even when you go through the indictments, it
just makes it they made it seem like there was
more here than there actually was. And if it all
turns out to be true, yeah, Terry Rozier needs to
(05:28):
be banned. Chauncey Bilps needs to be banned. But it
just feels like there's so many unfinished pieces, and I
didn't I guess I just didn't understand the form in
which it came out, Like this wasn't to me. A
lot of it felt like recycling the Chauncey Bilb stuff.
Of course breaking news, but is that something that the
FBI needs to hold a press conference for. It felt
like there was this huge ring of people involved when
(05:51):
you especially when you're looking at the illegal poker game stuff,
and that these bigger names may have been tangentially related
and so they latched onto them. Doesn't mean that these
guys are eat or innocent, but I just the announcement,
I don't wanna say, rubbed me the wrong way. It
confused me, that that whole spectacle confused me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
All Right, I'm gonna I'm gonna be the one to
get political here. Is that? I mean, that's kind of
what it is with this administration. It's dog and pony show.
It's all right, we're gonna make a big old deal
over something that isn't nearly as big as we think
it is. It's not nothing, don't get me wrong. The
fact that Chauncey Billups missed a big shot himself an
NBA coach, was involved in the legal gambling by way
(06:29):
of poker, which we should be sure to make that distinction.
Chauncey Billups and the Terry Rogier thing are two very
different situations. One is on court, one is off court.
But I think when if Storry first got reported, the
fear was, especially from people who are more familiar with
NBA lore is we have another Tim Doneghe or Donahue,
whatever's last name was situation. But from what I'm seeing
(06:52):
right now, it doesn't look like that's it. Am.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I often that no, and I would echo what you
said that coming from the source, I'm just condition to
doubt anything that's announced by the administration. And really what
felt like was buried the league. So the Chauncey Billups stuff,
he's mostly related to that whole poker thing. But in
the indictment, I think it says it describes someone who
just fits his criteria, like someone who resides in Oregon
(07:15):
and played in the NBA and was a head coach
for this time frame. He probably passed on information to
one of the people involved in the poker ring about
who was available to play for the Blazers team One night,
and that to me was just not talked about enough
to where it's, oh, he might have just been talking
to people and the information came out, and it's well,
if you're involved in this illegal poker game with this
(07:36):
guy and you're sharing your availability of your own team
with him, there's like a weird intent there. So like,
that's the part that I found the most fascinating of
all this, which is all to say, even that wasn't
quote unquote impacting the integrity of the game. We're talking
about the victims in that scenario or mostly the sports books.
It's not you know, that wasn't impact. Those players were
never gonna play in Portland. So it's I'm with you
(07:59):
on that to where there definitely needs to be distinctions made.
This was like two or three separate things. It wasn't
even just two separate things. To me, it was a
few of them, and they're all being That was the
other thing. Why've looped them all together so that you
can confuse the hell out of everybody that was listening
to it. That's also what it felt like, All.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, let's get to the all in the court stuff,
and I'm not gonna make you make a proclamation after
five games. But after five games, after that first week,
what team has impressed you the most?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Ooh, that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I think it's the Sixers, just when you look at
not having Paul George, not having Jared McCain, whatever, Joel
Embiide is right now, which there's you know, red flags
to talk about there. Tyree's Max and VJ. Edgecomb are
just quietly balling. They're playing like an absolute blur. Andre
Drummond comes in after the first game and kind of
(08:51):
helps him steady the backup big man rotation. I love
just the triple guard look of.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Quentin Grimes, VJ.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Edgecomb and Tyre's man Tellyer Brady Junior shooting the lights
out right now. I don't know what this team is.
Dominic Barlow's had a few good moments for them. I
don't know what this team is in the grand scheme
of things in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
I don't expect.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Them to still be like a four seed if we're
gonna fast forward twenty five thirty games. But I kind
of had the penciled in as well. They're not too intriguing.
It's either Joel Embiid is gonna look like Joel Embiid
and be able to play like fifty or sixty games,
they might be relevant or he won't. And I think
based off that first game alone against Boston, even though
they won, I was sort of ready to go, oh,
a lot of the Sixers aren't gonna be entertaining, But
(09:34):
they've just turned my head. They're fun and as of
right now, they're good. Let's see if that holds.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
So I came to a kind of different conclusion about
the Sixers and you brought up Joel Embiid. The future
of this team, as far as I'm seeing right now,
is maxi Edgecombe McCain when he gets back, quinnin Grimes.
Obviously you can't play all four of them at the
same time because defense exists. But this is the first
time in Philly that a world without Joel Embiid seems possible.
(10:06):
So how good do the Sixers have to be before
they start putting out the feelers of, hey, who wants
a former MVP on their team?
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I think the tricky part there is if you gave
the front office truth serum, they might already be there.
And it's not even about oh, we're just good enough
without him. It's This might be the worst contract in
the league at this point when you look at how
much it's worth, how long it goes out. Who is
trading for Joel Embiid right now? I think that would
make this awkward conversation to where not only is in
(10:37):
Beiad's name being dragged through the rumor mill, but we
kind of saw something similar with Trey Young, not injury related.
Where's the Godfather offer coming from? Where is even just
an offer that the Sixers would take coming from for
Joel Embiid. And that's what's so weird about this dynamic,
because I agree with you the future in Philly is
very clearly Tyres Max and VJ Edgecombe, those two specifically,
(10:57):
But you still have Paul George, you still have joean Biid,
and they're not eminently movable. And are we at the
point where you just don't play those guys or you
diminish their roles to what Embiid we've seen now in
kind of those short bursts, or he's playing his normal rotation,
and then they're still not bringing him over twenty minutes.
That's not gonna fly all year.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
And I think that's the thing that they need to
grapple with.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
And what makes it more fun is the city that
it's in. It's Philly. The moment this it's abundantly clear
that this isn't working. The media and that fan base
is going to let the organization know about it, and
I think that's where we start to steer towards Okay,
maybe the Godfather offer isn't coming, but this is no
longer sustainable. We have to get Joel Embiid off this team,
(11:41):
and I don't think they saw that coming coming into
this year.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean, it had to be on their radar based
off how the offseason went down and like knowing his
health status. But I think again it might. I think
it's easier to come to the conclusion of we need
to move on from Joel Embiid than it is to
actually move on from Joel Embid And that's kind of
the pickle that they're in at the moment.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
When you look at the East as a whole, the
Sixers have played well to start, but I came into
the year looking at disc going with all the injuries
Boston has, with all the injuries Indiana had when not
having Halliburton, it felt like the team I had the
most confidence in was the Knicks and said, this feels
(12:23):
like the Knicks conference to lose. Is it fair to
say that that is the case with the Knicks this year?
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I would say no, just because I am pretty bullish
on the longer term, at least through this season.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Outlook of Cleveland.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
When you're gonna get Darius Garland back, Max Druce back,
DeAndre Hunter will be healthier. This team is really deep.
I do wonder what their defense will kind of look
like at Isaacacorro, not too valuable of a playoff player,
but pretty valuable with them in the regular season as
a defender. But I look at the Knicks. They're trying
to learn a new offensive system. The defense right now
has been good and actually not all that lucky, but
(13:02):
I just don't look at them as a top ten defense.
I assume they'll start making wide open three pointers at
some point, but their roster is just inherently flawed. It's
so good on paper. But Karl Anthony Towns is this
generational talent who we have to accept just isn't always
gonna play like it. And I know he's hurt at
the moment. I know he's learning a new offense at
(13:22):
the moment, so is everybody else on that team.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Josh Hart was hurt to start the season. Mitchel Robinson is.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Being load managed BeForever playing a game.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Whatever that means.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
There's just something. There's something weird about New York. I
think they're still there, they'll be in the top four
if they're healthy. They're a team to watching the playoffs,
but I actually think that I think the Calves are
just better, quite frankly, and that's sort of where I'm at.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
My only issue with Cleveland is we're relying on a
lot of people whose health has been questionable. As much
as I love the Lonzo ball signing on one of
my Celtics, to grab him, especially after we got Drew
help is questionable. With him, Darres Growland's already out. We
have to see how much Evan Mobley takes that step
because they're gonna need a second score. Donovan Mitchell, I'm
(14:03):
not worried about him when it comes to the playoffs.
Donavin Mitchell does what he does. He's here to drop
his thirty eight game in a playoffs. He does it
every year. But he needs that second score, and I'm
not sure still that that guy exists on the Cavaliers
roster as opposed to New York. I know who their
second score is, Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Do you That's look you know more than I do
about the Knicks then, because I don't. When you look
at how the offense gets run a lot of the times,
Karl Anthony Towns, if you put a small on him,
doesn't know how to capitalize on those mismatches, and he's
not being used in the same number of screening actions
and it just doesn't look like, you know, the game
against the Bucks, like he was playing without Jayalen Brunton
and did just kind of jack at that point. I
(14:41):
think this comes with the caveat that he's hurt, but
this has been We have a decade's worth of evidence
that all these teams are trying to figure out Karl
Anthony Towns. And to your point about Cleveland, I'd probably
share a lot of the same concerns.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
I think they paper over.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I think Mobile's good enough to get there and showed
so last year, and we'll see how this season plays out.
What I'm more questioning with them is the Darius Garland
Donovan Mitchell one. Can Darius Garland be healthy in the playoffs.
You mentioned if this team always seems banged up, but
like defensively, you don't really have DeAndre Hunter is probably
their best wing defender, or it's Dean Wade that's not
really Lonzo balls gig and so you if you don't
(15:16):
have an answer to that question, and you're gonna be
playing two small guards a lot of the time, what
does that look like when you have two bigs on
the court.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
What does it look like when even it's just the
mobili minutes?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
And so I think, honestly, I think you kind of
touched on why a lot of people think the East
is so wide open because we have these two really
good teams they think are mentioned in the same breath
as Oh, it's it's Cleveland or it's New York, but
they both just still have these wholesale questions about them.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Can I bring up a sneaky team that I feel
like a lot it's under the radar, but a lot
of people they have a fatal flaw, so people aren't
really looking at them. The Orlando Magic if they could
just shoot like maybe ten percent better, Like I'm not
asking for much, Orlando, Like, if you could just be
maybe ten percent better beyond the arc. I don't see
(16:00):
why they can't be the three seed. They're one of
the best defensive teams in the league. Palo Boncaro is
a bona fide superstar. When you turn it on and
the Desmond Bank sign, it looks like it's gonna be
a revelation. Like that's the one other team other than
those top two that I'm looking at, like, Okay, maybe
you guys, if you could fix this one flaw that
y'all can't seem to get over.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, And look, they're they haven't looked great so far,
but they're playing faster as well. In addition to having
like Desmond Bain, who's gonna issue better from three at
some point, they need more just out of their front court.
In general, you assume that Palo Bank Caro is gonna
become more efficient. Fron Zagner has been pretty good to
start the year, but his jumper is still he's under
thirty four percent from three. But you're right, that's the
(16:42):
I think a lot of people had them or the
Hawks as kind of a sleeper in the conference entering
the season, and it's just it's a little unnerving for
the Magic specifically that our biggest concern about them. They
went out and got Desmond Bain and it's still our
biggest concern about them.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Very true.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Over in the West, San Antonio is probably dominating the
headlines right now when you open up any of the
NBA pages. Just how good can this Spurs team be
this year?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I hit there under when we were doing our over
unders at Hardwood Knox because I looked at this as
Okay Wemby and a bunch of dudes who are intriguing,
but some of them are unfinished products. Is there enough shooting?
And I clearly just underestimated that. Oh is he a
top ten offense and defense unto himself now? And that's
not to downplay. Look, Steph Castle's look pretty good to
start the year. Devin Vessel making threes, that's my guy.
(17:39):
I love Devin Vessel. Dylan Harper looks super smooth. They
have depth on this team and Luke Cornette and Julian
CHAMPENNI so, just based off the early returns, if you're
gonna get sixty five games of this version of Victor Wemberyama,
I would be a fool to put any sort of
ceiling on the Spurs in the Western Conference because it can. Yeah,
(18:00):
what I think that they're gonna beat the Thunder in
a seven game series of the Nuggets?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Probably not.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
But like what we're watching Victim Viktor wemen Yamad do
right now, there are guys who are afraid to even
get to the free throw line on offense because he's
on the floor on defense. And now he's stronger, and
he's getting more paint touches some of themselves created. The
handle looks better, the passing is better. This is This
is mind boggling to watch. And even if you thought
that Wenby was gonna be this good, I still struggled
(18:27):
to think what the rest of the team would look
like around him. It's looked pretty good so far. And
they don't even have Aaron Fox yet, which is that's
just like an all star floating around on that roster.
That's a great I know people are concerned about the fit,
myself included. When you look at Castle on Harper, that
is an excellent problem to have. It's like, oh, how
do we make these like three super talented players work together.
(18:47):
I at this point, I'm just gonna say, through Wemby,
all things seem possible, and so I won't hesitate to
put a ceiling on the Spurs this season.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The key words you use theirs ceiling because the takes
are getting more and more hyperb look on Wenby as
the days go by, but none of it feels out
the realm of possibility yet. Like I've been calling him
a horror movie monster for the past two years because
at his best, it literally looks like nobody even almost
wants to challenge him in the paint, and then he's
(19:16):
coming down on the other end of the floor and
breaking people down to the top of the key half
his size. Like like you said, if we get to
sixty five games of this of what is he right now?
Like thirty ten five blocks game something something something like that,
So something ridiculous. If that's what we're getting all year long,
(19:36):
why can't they be a fifty win team? Why can't
they be a top four seed in the West, And
then when you get to the playoffs you got to
deal with that for seven games.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Now, what he is, he's a human hyperbole.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
I don't think there's anything you could say where I
would be yo, there's He's definitely not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
He's just he's a human hyperbole.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I'm just gonna say it to me. It all hinges
right now. And Wenby's healthy because you can see it's
a team built to play to his strengths. When you
look at the West, you mentioned the Thunner, you mentioned
the Nuggets. We sort of talked about the surprise of
the East so far, besides the Spurs, which everybody's talking about,
who's the team in the West that we should be
(20:14):
watching out for that maybe we're not talking about right now.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Probably, I mean there are people are talking about them,
so this feels like a cop out. But probably the
Golden State Warriors health is going to be a question
with them too, because they're so darn old. But their
defense is terrifying. They against the Clippers the other night,
when Steph was off the floor and Jimmy Butler was
on it, they limited the Clippers offense to point seven
eight points per possession. This team doesn't even have the
(20:41):
Anthony Milton yet. If he comes back and healthy, that's
kind of like another three and D guy, and I
will argue that their defense hasn't even come close to peaking.
At the moment I thought their defense was going to
play their offense, and so far it's been the other
way around. So if you're able to insulate Steph enough
to where sometimes you get those nights where the Clippers
game being he plays like twenty five minutes instead of
(21:02):
having to get to that thirty two to thirty four threshold,
He's like, like, you're sitting golden. And so if you
can be a semblance of healthy, that's a team that
I think you can loop into with the Thunder and
the Nuggets in that upper retionalont of title contenders in
the West.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
We've had a lot of insane performances to start the year,
fifty pieces from even an Austin Reeves. What are we
to make of this? Do teams just come out this
summer ready to go? Is it a poor defense thing?
What's happening right now?
Speaker 4 (21:35):
I do.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I am a big believer that defense takes longer to
catch up when you're coming out of training camp than
the offense. And I also do believe that kind of
just in this era that we play in where there's
going to be more three pointers taken, where guys also
know as an offensive player. Look at Austin Reeves against
the Kings the other night, know how to game the
rules so that they're going to draw these fouls, stop
(21:57):
the clock, get those free throw opportunities, and then let's
go ahead and factoring. All right, there's a lot of
these teams are gonna play with pace and offensive rebounding
is coming back, so if there's a misshot like, these
teams are gonna try and crash and get another possession
out of it. It just seems like there are more
opportunities and more ways through which these players can go kaboom.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
I know some people don't.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Like it, and you look at a footnote and it's, oh,
Austin Reeves having these what feels like nightly forty burgers
or whatever. They are probably a little weird, but Austin
Reeves is also really good, and I've enjoyed a lot
of the scoring outbursts so far. It's fascinating to see
like these guys come out of the gate and what
they're able to just.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Drop as as a vie. Just to be clear, I
just hope it continues till like February where we're still
watching these guys. There gonna not like obviously no one's
gonna average forty fifty game, but just every so often
we get one of these explosions. It's fun to watch.
Just go for the league.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It is Dan, we have kid ready to wrap this up.
I do want to ask this one obvious Laker question.
Can Lebron propel this team to be a playoff threat?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I'm sure. I look, I'm not gonna want to face
I'm not gonna want to face a team in the
playoffs if you have a healthy that has a healthy
Lebron and Luca and Austin Reeves. But I think one
of the issues with the Lakers, and like some of
the numbers aren't always gonna bear it out, Like the
fact that they're fifteenth, is that is that right in
defense so far this year? That's gotta be a type
I need double check that, all right, they're seventeenth, Like
(23:26):
I look at them as the bottom five defensive team
with that talent, and so I think the center rotation
is still very shallow. They don't have a lot of
two way wings. They're really Gabe Vincent is injured again
in addition to Luca and Lebron. At the moment, I
could they be a playoff team? Yes, I think if
they get into the playoffs, it'll be by way of
the playing, and I'm not really I mean, you put
(23:47):
Luca in a best of seven series, sure, but I
will say I would be pretty surprised even if they're healthy,
if this is a team that wins a playoff series.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I'm right there with you. They got I think we're
finally at the point where, hey, guys, there's too many
good teams in the West. We haven't even touched on
the Toberwolves today, but like, there's too many good teams, and.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The Edwards hurt too. All these injuries I could do without.
And look, Kevin, you were saying something about could the
scoring continue until February, and in my head, I was like,
there's like no way. But the average defensive rating right
now is basically what it was all of last year,
and so we're not even just we're seeing these outlier
individual performances without it over correcting league wide. And so
(24:30):
maybe we are gonna get Austin Reeves dropping fifty points
right through the All Star break.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Perhaps, And I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
All right, Well, Dan, we appreciate the time. We can't
wait to see you back here on this podcast again
talking some NBA with us.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Thanks Denely thank you guys for having me as always.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
All Right, we are gonna step aside and be right
back after this.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
All right.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Our thanks to Dave forvali you Bleacher Report for talking
all things NBA with us. Dave Steinwittle kp here with
you and we mentioned this as a loaded show. We
got some great guests on and none better. One of
my favorite people to talk football with. He writes at
Wide Left Football. He has some Norse Code podcasts that
(25:14):
would be our friend back with us, Ari Hassan Arive.
Great to have you back on.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
How you doing, dude, I'm doing great. You must want
me on the show because I've been. I led you
around on those emails for like two weeks before we
got that schedule figured out.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I really appreciate your patience. Man. Hey, look, you're one
of one of our favorites to have on this show.
I'm absolutely gonna do what I can to get you on.
So how have you enjoyed this football season so far?
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Despite following the vikings? Yeah, actually it's been. It's been
fun to see like Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold and
Drake May just kind of like go off in ways
I didn't expect. I love seeing Baker Mayfield be just
a complete dickhead out of it. Can I say that
by all means?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Man?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
I love when he does that. And he's playing well too,
So I'm having a lot of fun with the season.
But the Vikings, you know, maybe not as much, and
I don't know, it's just all part of the process.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So that's actually a great place for us to start,
because you covered the Vikings last year and Daniel Jones
obviously got signed there in the middle of the season.
Is there a rehabilitation project that's happening in Minnesota that
we all don't worry about. I mean that we're all
just not privy too, Like what's happening there that they're
now Foster's home for rehabilitating quarterbacks?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
It seems like it right because Sam Darnolds there a
whole season. Now, he's like leading the league in some
metrics like EPA, Daniel Jones has it, he's leading the
league in explosives, and you know, Joshua Dobbs had the
best games of his career there. Nick Mullins, I think
is the career leader in EPA per play, which is crazy. Yeah,
like every Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Nick Mullins at the
(26:56):
top there, and a lot of that's because of his
play with the Vikings, and it very much seems like
he does a lot to maximize these quarterbacks. I think,
you know, Kirk Cousins, I think statistically had better seasons
with other offensive coordinators, but I think everyone agrees that
he played best with Kevin O'Connell, and it certainly he
seems to have an understanding of how to get quarterbacks
(27:18):
to get the most out of them. But then, you know,
this year, we're seeing some pretty subpar play, if we
want to call it that from Carson Wentz. We haven't
seen anything good from the young second year player, first
year playing JJ McCarthy thus far, and so maybe a
little bit of ding on his reputation there, but it
(27:39):
certainly seems like, you know, the quarterbacks that have passed
through the Vikings have done some really extraordinary stuff with him,
and then and then after they've had time with him.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So I hate to just dive full Vikings to start
the podcast, but we're here. So the JJ McCarthy thing, right,
I think the shadow benching that the room was going around,
that the ankle injuries is blah blah blah. I think
that's crazy, Like, the man hasn't started five games yet, Guys,
give him a second. But if this doesn't work out?
(28:09):
How bad does not signing Sam Darnold look In hindsight?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
It looks bad like optically, but I don't think like
I personally would have a difficult time judging it because
I think they didn't have a chance to sign him, right,
because if they signed him, they would be telling him
you're in a competition with this guy now, or you're
the backup to this guy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Right.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
He was not going to be assured a starting job,
and if I were, I would only want to go
to a place where I'm asured of starting job. And
that's what Seattle offered him, and that's where he went.
And I don't know that the Vikings had the cap
flexibility to offer him something to the degree that Seattle did,
So I don't know that they had an opportunity with
the understanding that they were going to give JJ McCarthy
(28:53):
a chance. Now you could say, hey, maybe they shouldn't
have just given this guy a chance, but I don't
know any NFL team that after a rookie has missed
a whole season that they drafted in the first round
is not going to give that guy a chance to start.
So it looks bad, But I don't know how much
I personally judge it. I just think, you know, they
made a misevaluation with McCarthy, or they should have steered
(29:16):
hard in a situation where almost no NFL teams would
steer hard and say, hey, you played really well for us.
Last year was a fourteen win season. We're just gonna
sign you and you're gonna start. And this other guy
we've got under cost control and he's gonna just have
to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And I'm interested in the hole. JJ McCarthy, Sam Darnold
and even to the Daniel Jones debate. But I'm with
you in the sense that I don't think it's fair
to judge J. J. McCarthy because here's the other thing
to talk about, too, is he didn't have Jordan Addison
at the beginning of the year, and that offense is
(29:51):
a different offense when you have Justin Jefferson and Jordan
Addison on the outside. So realistically, I reef, what do
you I kind of expect as McCarthy gets ready to
come back this week and going forward now that he's
gonna have pretty close to his full compliment of what
that Viking offense is supposed to look like.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I think that that is important context to have. And
I think that the offense that was called for him
versus the offense that was called for Wentz was a
little bit different one that accommodated the challenges that were
present with the offensive line problems the Vikings had that
he didn't have access to in those first two games.
But I do think that even if you kind of
give him all of this, right, even if you talk
about like the missing left tackle, the missing you know,
(30:34):
wide receiver, those suspended for three games, and all of
these other elements, I still think he drastically underperformed because
I'm taking a look at young quarterbacks in worse situations.
Once you even account for this, and you know, like
there are a lot of quarterbacks that have had to
start without any premiere receivers, you know, he still had
justin Jefferson, right, there are quarterbacks who've had to start
with backup left tackles. There are quarterbacks who've had to
(30:57):
start with backup right tackles, right, and you and a
really good example of that would be like justin fields
of Chicago. No one thinks that he that he ever
had a good career in Chicago, and he didn't have
very much support And I would argue that his rosters
in almost every one of those games was worse than
any of the rosters that that McCarthy had in those
two games. And he still performed better than McCarthy did. Right,
(31:17):
He performed poorly, but he performed better than McCarthy did.
And that's a really difficult, you know, thing to kind
of come to terms with.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Right.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I think that that Drake May his rookie year, had
a worse supporting cast than McCarthy had in those games.
And so we still does right and look at what
he's doing, right and so and so like it is
important to understand kind of what challenges McCarthy had, but
to also be honest about the level of play you
expect to give in those challenges and where he is
(31:48):
relative to that level of playing. I think he was
below that. That said, I don't think the book is
written on him. It's just two games, it's just eight quarters,
and you know, once we have a full season of play,
it won't be enough information. It's really different to get
a good read on how good a quarterback is gonna be.
You know, we always talk about like, you know, Josh
Allen after his rookie year improved drastically. But he's not
the only one, right, He's not a lone example. I
(32:09):
mean Jared Goff after his rookie year that was a
terrible rookie season. He turned out to be a Pro
Bowl quality quarterback. Matthew Stafford's rookie year, I think a
lot of people gave excuses for because of injury, but
the production was very poor and he turned out to
be a high level quarterback. So and they're countless examples
of that, right, And so if if one season, if
sixteen games is not enough, then certainly two isn't right.
(32:31):
And so I think that having Jornanadisen there, maybe having
Christian Darrisaw there is kind of like a recurring injury
question with him. That's gonna be good. It sounds like
Brian O'Neil is gonna be back to that's gonna be great.
He's still gonna be missing a center. Ryan Kelly is
still out with the concussion. He's on ir with the
second concussion of the season, and so you've got your
(32:52):
maybe backup backup center in I don't know they benched
the backup center for this guy. So I don't know
what we think about that quality of play, but that
is that is going to be an issue, and against
a pretty good Lions team, you know, we might not
get still a full understanding of who McCarthy is. So
I do want a caution that we do just have
(33:14):
to wait. But on film, there's just like not a
lot there yet to suggest he has improved a lot
in his development process. He drifts in the pocket, he
invites pressure, he holds on the ball, that kind of stuff. Right,
His accuracy is not fully there. But you know, I
do think that there's a lot of potential. He's one
of the youngest quarterbacks we've ever seen drafted, and there's
(33:36):
a lot more growth for him yet to come. I
just don't know that this year we're going to see
the Vikings turn around their season with him.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I think that's a fair assessment. But let's talk about
a guy that's turned around a franchise in Daniel Jones.
I mean, I don't think there's a pundon out there
that could have seen what Daniel Jones as doing with
this Colts team. And how much when you see the
Colts are do you attribute to Daniel Jones's almost maturation
(34:10):
at the quarterback position here.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
I think quite a bit. I think you take a
look at how the Colts are playing and what's happening
to kind of produce these explosives, because sometimes you know,
there are quarterbacks that are producing at a really high
level that a lot of people kind of like how
they're playing, and I'm a little bit more skeptical. I
think bo Nicks is a good example of that right now,
and sometimes I'm wrong. That's how I felt about Jared
Goff early in his Lion's career when he was producing
(34:34):
at a high level, and I think I was wrong
about that. But you know, sometimes you're just like, I
don't know how much of that is the quarterback And
that's not the feeling I get from Daniel Jones and
watching him play the deep ball accuracy is outstanding. I
was actually taking a look at points per drive since
since the year two thousand, right, I wanted to see
how the Colts offense ranked in points per drive, you know,
(34:54):
up against the two thousand and four Colts, the two
and seven Patriots, the twenty eleven backwards, all of these
historic offenses. And not only are the twenty twenty five
Colts number one since the year two thousand, which probably
means in league history, right, not only the number one,
they're number one by like a pretty substantial margin. The
difference between them in the two thousand and seven Patriots
we're second is the same as like the difference between
(35:17):
the Patriots and like twenty fifth. Like, it is crazy
how and that's going to regress a little bit, but
it is crazy how productive they're being. And I love
like Alec Pierce, I really like some of these receivers,
but like, if we're being honest, like Alec Pierce is
a good receiver, I don't think he's a great receiver.
To be able to produce at this level without great
receivers is awesome. Now, obviously you've got an MPB candidate
(35:38):
Jonathan Taylor doing a lot. That offensive line has kind
of jelled together, Quentin Nelson's playing at a level that
he hasn't played it two three years. That's all helping
a ton, right, But I think when you take a
look at Daniel Jones's process, how quickly he gets rid
of the ball on explosive plays, how often he kind
of leverages, the process of the defense, and where he's
(35:59):
going to kind of his eyes before the snap. All
of that's there. I think the one thing is that
I think he holds on to his first read a
little bit too long. I think that it is kind
of difficult for him to continue processing past that first read.
And that's kind of where my criticisms kind of end,
because it is really accurate. He does have mobility in
the pocket, he does know when to run, he does
(36:20):
know when to kind of scramble to buy time. There
is there's some pretty outstanding stuff there, and he's performing
really well under pressure. So I think a lot of
it's Daniel Jones. I think it helps a ton to
be able to score points off of like an eighty
R Jonathan Taylor run like that. That doesn't suck, right,
But I think I think he's doing a lot to help.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
You. Brought up exactly where I wanted to go next.
I need y'all both to tell me whether I'm crazy
or not because I made a comment about this on
one of my videos this week. Jonathan Taylor needs two
touchdowns a game to break Ladani and Thomasin's all time.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Record said thirty one touchdowns.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Jesus thirty one. So he needs to a game from
the for the end of this season. Yeah, he's had
I believe it's four to three touchdown games already to
start the year.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Yeah, which is I think like sixth most or something
like that in NFL history.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Am I crazy for thinking he's gonna get it? Unless
it's a Saquon situation where they decide to sit him
the last week of the season, which, guys, please don't.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Like.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I'm still mad at the Eagles for doing that. I
don't care if you won a Super Bowl, God damn
you robbed us of a record. But like, am I
crazy for thinking that this is very feasible for him?
Speaker 5 (37:30):
I don't think you are right because I think in
addition to right, like the fact that he's already produced
this much this far, we know that he's a good player,
right Like, we know that he's he's a big player
that runs fast. That helps, But his vision is outstanding.
His first step is really really explosive. They rely on
him a lot in the red zone, which gives him
a lot of those touchdown opportunities. The one area right
(37:53):
that he's gonna fall short of of Legeni and Thomas's.
I don't think he's gonna pass for any touchdowns, so
we're getting we're not getting any of those. But I
think that when you've got a guy who currently leads
the league in rushing yardage, that has already once led
the league in rushing yardage and rushing touchdowns, that last
year had like fourteen hundred yards, right, that is consistently
(38:14):
producing at this rate, and has an offensive line that
is giving him the space and a play caller that
is giving him those opportunities, I think absolutely he's it
is well within his capability. Here's the thing, this is
one of the lower attempts per game he's gotten thus far.
He's actually had fewer attempts per game as a rusher
(38:34):
than he did last year by about three and a
half attempts per game, which is a lot, right, And
he had nineteen point five attempts per game in twenty
twenty one, and he's getting barely eighteen in this game now.
So the fact that they're not even using him that
much thus far, and I think they will use him more,
not less, as the season goes on, I think really
(38:56):
tells us a lot. And what's really really kind of
like brings this home for me is you take a
look at the first half second half splits for the
Colts and how often they throw the ball on how
often they run the ball. They're crushing teams, right, they're
killing it and they're running away, and so they're running
the ball a fair amount in the second half, but
it's not always with Jonathan Taylor, and the fact that
(39:16):
he's currently leading the league in touchdowns and yards and
attempts despite that fact tells me that when the games
are closer, they're still gonna lean on him a lot,
and they're still gonna use him in red zone situations.
He still has the ability to kind of catch and
run for a couple of touchdowns. I think he has
two touchdowns through the air, right, So I don't think
that you're crazy. I think it's unlikely. It's always unlikely
to break a record, no matter kind of where you
(39:37):
are in the process, until you're at the very end.
So I don't think it's I think it's less likely
to happen, but I don't think it's outside the realm
of possibility by any means.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
KP mentioned that the Eagles a little bits all about
Sakwon Barkley and the trade deadline is coming up next week?
Is it possible, are Eve that we see AJ Brown
get trad.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Please God to please footballs if you're listening, please.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
That would be so interesting?
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Right?
Speaker 5 (40:08):
So I have one really stupid take and one probably
more measured take.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Can we here's the dumb one first?
Speaker 5 (40:15):
Obviously, the stupid one is that the Eagles are a
team that are fueled by hate, and so they need
to keep a J. Brown on the team so they
can continue creating the locker room discord that won in
the Super Bowl last year. Like I think I think
the amount that they absolutely despise each other kind of
like a Kobe Shack situation, the amount that they absolutely
(40:37):
despise each other has fueled their ability to kind of
gut out these games and win them. So that's the
stupid take.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
The it's not really not dumb and hot sit Like,
the more you kept talking, I'm like, ah, it is
philly like.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
But I think the other side of that is, like
they could use some help on defense, like getting uh
in edge rusher that's not branded, you know, that would help,
and you know, like or or figuring out what's kind
of happening at cornerback, right, Like, I know that they
love Cooper and quinnyon, but I think like that third
(41:16):
quarterback spot is is a concern into question, right.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I think, just to clarify for the listeners, I think
they just made a move for somebody today. Hold that.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
It was for Michael Carter, the corner from the Jets.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
There we go flipping, that's not real. I don't okay.
I mean that's a real you didn't break fake news.
That's a real trade. But like that to me does.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Not mean it's better than what they had at that corner.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
That's right, it is better, you're that's a good point is.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
It's no longer in that negative. It might be in
that neutral, but it's no longer in that negative.
Speaker 5 (41:54):
So like so that that that could that could help
and maybe that will diminish their likelihood of wanting to
get another corner. But like, the edge rusher situation is
pretty dire. The depth that tackle is pretty bad. Like
you got Jillen Carter, Jordan Davis, that's awesome. It depends
on whether not you count Moro Jooma's an edge rusher
defensive tackle He's good obviously at what he does, but
(42:15):
I think the heavy rotation there is going to diminish
the effectiveness of these guys down the season. You want
one more guy there. Obviously, trading aj Brown for a
depth defensive tackle is not what's going to happen. But
if you traded for multiple players, you traded for consideration
or maybe like a backup receiver to go with DeVonta
Smith and Johan Dotson along with you know, a starting
(42:35):
quality defensive end, and like, there's a lot of opportunities
here for them to improve and kind of reset themselves
on the path to winning on Super Bowl, because that's
kind of obviously the trajectory that they're on right now.
They had a rough two game stretch and then they
get right game against the Vikings and then continued it
the next week, right, So yeah, I could see them
(42:56):
do it. It's just if a team is willing to
give up because they don't want to pick right they
want players. If a team is willing to trade for
a player and give up a player, which is always
a really tough spot to find because usually they either
want picks or want to give away picks, that I
think is kind of the area that you need to
be in. But I could see it.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
The trade deadline is around the corner. Who should we
have our eye on that might be on the move.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
I wish I could say Miles Garrett, but the Browns
were like pretty pretty clear that they weren't going to
get rid of that guy, which, like, okay, man, God,
good good for you. That would have been real nice.
But yeah, no, there's like I think that with the
aiden O'Connell coming back from the Raiders and the Raiders
(43:43):
just not being in a spot to do anything, you
could see like a Canny Pickett trade to a team
that absolutely needs a backup quarterback. That's kind of small
potatoes obviously, in terms of like these these roster trade decisions.
You could see maybe a Jalen Waddle trade. I would
love to see that, just because I would like to
see Jayleen Waddle in a different offense that kind of
(44:04):
respects itself.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I don't know how else to put it.
Speaker 5 (44:09):
Oh dear God, that would be pretty nice. Other than that,
like I think the Steelers are gonna kind of hold
onto everybody because like, despite themselves, they are winning. Maybe
a Chase Young trade again to see him move around
I could see that because I don't think the Saint's
going anywhere, but he's playing like really really outstandingly. But yeah,
(44:30):
it seems like a lot of the guys that we
would want on the trade block. A lot of teams
have come out and said like, uh no, actually that guy,
like we're gonna hold onto that guy and make him
miserable forever. And it's like, oh, I respect it, but like,
please don't.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
There are two quarterbacks in particular I was looking at
is a maybe until I saw Kirk Cousins play football
this past Sunday. I was like, surely somebody is going
to move for that guy. Yeah, And I don't know
what the Giants are doing with Jameis Winston, but he
someone has to put this man on the field before
the season ends. Outside of when Jackson Dard never hurts himself,
(45:06):
but somebody is gonna have to put him. Listen, listen,
I've watched Jackson dar play enough. It's coming, like I'm saying,
Giants fans, I'm warning you now, like it's coming, like
until he learns how to slide a run out of mounds,
it's coming.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
Like he's too busy juking out like Zach Bond to
concern himself with safety exist.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
I'm just like, bro, you got the first down already,
my guy, Like, just down, He's done your job.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Like, can you get sure you get traded back to Cleveland?
That's my Like that would be so.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Funny, dude, speaking of Cleveland, can they just trade Shador please?
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Like, no, No, he's gonna start, He's gonna start.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I just watched.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I just watched the whole game. I'm a Patriots fan.
I just watched Dylan Gabriel for an entire sunday of football. Hey, dog,
if you want to convince me that he's your best
option at quarterback, stop disrespecting that and sent him to
a team that wants them, because clearly you don't.
Speaker 5 (46:03):
You're not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
You're not gonna convince me after watching what is in
that three weeks to Dylan Gabriel that you genuinely and
your heart of hearts think that that's your best option
at quarterback. Stop it, bro, stop it, stop it.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Today.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
You don't want them.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
They did value him more than any other NFL team.
They picked them first, right.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
They picked them into third round and he's five foot two.
Oh that that's why Cleveland's Cleveland, right there, folks, we
figured it out. That's why Cleveland's Cleveland.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Yeah, it would be fun. It would be fun to
see issue George Andrews trade. I don't see it coming,
just because I think him being kind of weird has
put off some NFL teams for being interested. Like the
the the pantomime press conference was kind of odd, and
I think just generally speaking, that unusualness like turns people off.
But I do think that, first of all, I canny
(46:55):
pick a trade to Cleveland is so funny. I love
that idea. But I do you think I do think
that you're right that the gym Is Winston scenario is
really appealing potentially to a lot of teams because Winston
will make games exciting, like he's like he's always yeah, yeah,
he's good TV. And and there's a lot of bad
(47:15):
quarterbacks that aren't. And I don't know that Jamis is
a bad quarterback. He's just not a good one, right,
Like like like someone's getting a touchdown and you're never
really sure which team it's gonna be, but he's gonna
throw it. And sometimes it's like really useful for you
if you're a bad team. Right, So, so like there,
I think that there's something that you can get if
your season is kind of moving backwards or your spot
(47:37):
like the Jets. Oh my god, the Jets could use
the heck out of it. Yeah, especially with like whaty
Garrett Wilson's gonna come back soon. Just say it, just
like heave it deep man, Just like let them figure
it out downfield, and that will create enough space for Bristol.
You might win a couple of games and save a
job here there.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
He doesn't even have to move move taking stuff from
the locker like what down the hall?
Speaker 1 (48:03):
And you know what, the New York media would love
them as the Jets quarterback.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
Oh my god, they would, would they ever?
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It'd be the greatest thing they've had since God, it'd
be the greatest quarterback they've had since Rogers.
Speaker 5 (48:17):
Better, better player, better quote?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (48:21):
Why not? We just figured it out. That's the big
trade of the deadline. The Jets are trading for Jameis Winston.
We figured it out, guys, Good job, all right.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I have to ask this question about the Steelers. Does
it feel like we're watching history repeat itself again?
Speaker 5 (48:37):
Like as in, like they end up with a winning
season and might back themselves in the playoffs, but no
one takes them seriously because they're not good like that.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yes, like that's I'm beginning. I thought early on seriously,
I thought early on, I said, Okay, this feels different.
And now I'm starting to watch them again, I'm going
still can't really run the ball, really relying on a
forty one year old quarter back in one of the
toughest divisions in football. Defense isn't appreciably better than it
(49:07):
was last year.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
I think it might be appreciably worse.
Speaker 5 (49:09):
I think it's worse.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, I was gonna say, like, at a minimum, it's
not it's the same. I'm sitting here going this, I
feel like we've seen this before with Pittsburgh, and it
feels like we're just watching this on repeat for the
last five or six years. What is your take on
the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (49:28):
I so it's it's always pretty difficult to bet against
Tomlin in terms of like what the end of year
result is going to be. Like last year, I was like,
there's no way to go five hundred, and they do.
But I'm gonna double down. I'm gonna be like, no,
I don't think I think they're on the precipice of
like disaster collapse. Like I think they're actually close this
time to having it actually fall apart, like I think so.
(49:51):
So we talked about Dylan Gabrielle, right, so he is
he is one of the most yards after catch for
lank quarterbacks in the NFL. Right, Like we can all
agree on that. I looked up this at earlier today.
Fifty six percent of his yards come after the catch
number two in the NFL. It's crazy how much of
his jarge come out to the catch because he's only
thrown short fifty six percent, and there's a there's a
gap between him and number three, which is at like
(50:13):
fifty one percent. That's that's a huge gap. Number one
is Aaron Rodgers at sixty five percent.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yikes.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
It is crazy how much they are relying on these receivers,
which I get, like DK Metcalf getting the ball and running.
I saw him doing eighty yards in Dublin against the Vikings,
right Like that was a time to be alive. Right,
But I don't think that you can build an offense
out of that. I don't think that you can have
a reliable, sustainable offense that entirely relies on these receivers
(50:43):
catching short passes and then mustling their way to the
end zone. I think that over time that diminishes in
its effectiveness, and we've seen offenses that kind of rely
on it end up having to retool themselves or die.
Like the Chiefs offense was really yack reliant two three
years ago and it just didn't get the done, and
so they started getting more explosives despite not having any receivers.
(51:03):
They were just like, we have to get the ball
deeper somehow. And these offenses kind of they if they
rely entirely on this, they just kind of die. And
so I think that the Steelers don't have options to
produce explosives. Despite having Calvin Austin and DK Metcalf and
these guys that are really good at getting open deep,
they just don't have an offensive line or a quarterback
(51:24):
that really want to play that game. And so I
think that's going to fall apart. I think the fact
that they have the most old fashioned, old school defense
in the NFL where anybody who's played it multiple times
can Joe Flacco eviscerated them. And that's because he knows
where the bones are buried. He's played against this exact
same style of defense for a decade and so and so,
when you're the only team in the league running like
(51:45):
spot drop country cover three, right, teams are going to
figure it out. They're going to demolish you. And so
you're only playing like man coverage cover one or country
cover three. Every other team is switched to like pattern
match or mixing or cover six or whatever. They have
more complex defenses. Quarterbacks are figuring that, and so I
think the defense is falling apart. I think that the
It wouldn't shock me, actually if the if like some
(52:07):
Steelers players decided to just kind of go Rogan run
their own defense, Like I think it's that dire that
like that you just can't be running the same two
concepts on defense, like it's twenty eleven, right, Like, I
think that you're in a bad spot that way, and
I think the offense is unsustainable. So I just I
cannot see them going over five hundred again. And I
(52:27):
can't wait to eat these words at the end of
the season.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
All right, So before we let you go, there is
the game of the weekend, the CBS Classic, the Chiefs
Versus the Bills, that's going on this weekend. How do
you see that game plan out?
Speaker 5 (52:39):
So fun, dude, And no one's talking about the Bills
that much this year, which I find kind of interesting. Like, yeah,
I know the Panthers aren't a good team, but beating
up any team forty to nine is incredible. And the
way James Cook just went off, and it's it's nice
to see Josh Allen have like an appreciable running game
to work with. We've had that for two seasons now,
and it's it's it's a true joy to watch. That
(52:59):
defense has gotten a little bit better. We've seen more
from their pass rush than we've seen in the past.
We've seen, you know, Christian Benford come into his own.
That that is a truly exciting and fun team and
I'm glad that they're gonna get more of the spotlight.
But the Chiefs are like back, like like they're oh yeah,
way back yeah. And so like the last three four weeks,
the Chiefs are top five in every offensive category I
(53:20):
care about, yards per play EPA, for play success, right whatever,
They're in the top five in every one of those.
After since getting Rashid Rice back and like having Xavier
Worthy healthy, having Rashid Rice back, you know, having Travis
Kelcey do whatever it is that he does to get open, Like,
having all of that together has given them just enough
(53:42):
tools for Patrick Mahomes to be crazy and go off.
And I've always kind of believed in that in that
Chiefs defense, And so that's gonna be a ton of
fun because we're gonna see two good offenses against two
good defenses, which you don't actually get a ton of
in the NFL, and having that kind of b spotlight
it is gonna be big. Personally, I think it's gonna
be the Bill. I think the Bills are probably gonna
(54:03):
win this game, and then I think in the playoffs
they're gonna rematch and the Chiefs are gonna grab it. Like,
I think that's probably what's gonna happen. It's gonna be
painful again, it's gonna be kind of a classic Buffalo scenario.
But man, this Bill's team is real good.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
It's real good, all right, all right, if I'm gonna
get you out of here on this. The Ravens are
the topic of conversation. Lamar Jackson is back. Can the
Ravens go on a run? In your eyes?
Speaker 5 (54:27):
I depend on what that means. I think the defense
is not reparable. I think you can't really fix a
lot of those problems. But with Lamar Jackson, I think
that they'll they'll make the playoffs. I don't think anybody
in the AFC North can challenge them, and so I
think despite the fact that what two three games behind,
I think they make up that difference. I think it's
one of the rare situations that part with the season,
you can make up a three game difference. Lamar Jackson
(54:50):
has been playing really well before his injuries this year.
He was playing almost better than he was last year.
Last year was some of the best quarterback play we've
ever seen from him, and I think you'll get back
to that because that passing offense is a ton of
fun to watch. And then of course you've got you know,
Derek Henry is back. He's struggling for the first couple
of games. I think they get it. I think they
overcome this like three game or whatever deficit and make
(55:12):
it to the playoffs. But beyond that, the defense is
not good enough.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
All right, right, Thanks for our friend Ari Fassan, who
does a great job covering the NFL and on the North.
Code for Ari Fassan, for Dan Favali, for Kevin Pierce.
I'm Dave soominal. This has been the opening Kickoff podcast
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