Opening Kickoff 5-7-25 NBA Playoffs plus Draft Talk

On this podcast: Dave Steinwedel, Payton Girod and David Miles are back to talk the latest in sports and apologize for missing last week. (1:02-2:30)

Bleacher Report NBA Writer and Hardwood Knock Podcast Host Dan Favale joins the show to discuss all things NBA Playoffs including a look at each series, how the Pacers match up to the Cavs, what can the Knicks do, their outlook, the Warriors, Timberwolves, and Nuggets/Thunder matchup. (2:31-28:31)

Pro Football Network's own Ian Cummings stops by to discuss the NFL Draft one week removed, Shedur Sanders and his drop, which picks didnt make a lot of sense, which drafts Ian loved, his apporach to scouting, and more. (28:32-end)

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This week's Opening Kickoff Podcast is presented to you by
our friends at cegee and use promo code Opening Kickoff
All one word to get twenty dollars off your first
order with our friends at sea Geek. Make sure you
don't miss the next event. Baseball season is underway, concert
season is kicking off, NBA Playoffs, NHL Playoffs, the NFL

(00:23):
season will be here before you know it. You do
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(00:43):
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next event. Hello, Welcome to this week's edition of the

(01:16):
Opening Kickoff Podcast. Our deepest apologies for last week's technical difficulties.
Internet didn't want to work at my house and Peyton
didn't have lights, nothing, wanted to work at Peyton's house
State College. How long were you without power?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Peyton draw? It was three days and my neighbor started
saying Monday on like Friday, and I was like, that
is gonna that is going to ruin my weekend, just
ruin everything. But lo and Beholder, like was seven o'clock
and white started flickering on and I was watching in
NHL playoffs the rest of the way. So you know,

(01:53):
thing of the past, thing of the past. It's all good.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Now, well, we have a loaded podcast for you since
we were out last week. We get to our great
guests here in a moment. We also have Ian Cummings
of Pro Football Network joining us a little later, and
we're gonna talk a little baseball at the end of
the pod. But first, the NBA playoffs are in high gears,
so we figured who better to bring on this show
than our good friend host of the Hardwood Knocks podcast.

(02:18):
He's a writer over a Bleacher Report. That would be
our friend Dan Favali. Dan, How, what's the longest you've
ever been without power?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
One of the I live in New York and one
of the hurricanes.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I don't know what it was. I was without power
for like four days.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
I remember having to go to my friend's house had power,
and I was covering the NBA still all the time
and working from there. So I think like four days.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
When you get sandy. Maybe that's about right.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
I don't remember which one I remember it was. I
don't know if Sandy would have been like didn't that
gut everybody?

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Though?

Speaker 5 (02:54):
So shouldn't everyone been with But yeah, I think it
was like four days is probably the longest I've ever
been without.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Mussed up people a lot. I remember. I remember Jersey specifically.
I don't know, like North Jersey, like that area. I
just remember I had a football game got canceled and
we had they moved it to a grass field, which
was the funniest thing because we had a turf field
and it was like we should not play here, and
we played the mud Bowl. I just remember it was
like one of my last games my buddies high school career.

(03:18):
We're just like just tackling each other in piles of mud,
just mud everywhere. Helmets literally I threwout like my cleet socks.
I left it all there. That's my only memory of
that time. It's terrible.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
That is wild stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, so let's get actually to why we have you
on here, Dan, not to talk about not having power,
but the NBA playoffs. And I want to start with this.
How good had the playoffs been? In your eyes as
someone that covers it, because for the average fan there
was the whole conversation. The NBA hasn't been entertaining, but

(03:57):
the playoffs have certainly made up for it a lot
more close competitive games. What do you make of the
NBA playoffs so far as a whole.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
I think they've been a lot of fun.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
I mean, I'd probably say the same thing every year,
but we've had obviously, like you know, the Memphis thunder
series was kind of a blowout the Heat and Cavs
or whatever, But there feels like, with the exception of those,
every other series was just kind of like you were
lying in wait, like, oh, even if it was over,
you know, in five or six games like oh, like
this could have shifted the inside, Like Golden State almost

(04:26):
blowing a three to one lead against a young, up
and coming Rockets team that didn't even view itself as
a real threat this year until they wind up with
a number two seed.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
And I think the other thing that's.

Speaker 5 (04:36):
Been interesting about the playoffs has gotten I think a
good enough amount of coverage. They're really physical and like
these like some of these series Piston's knicks in the
first round, Rockets Warriors, certainly didn't see too much of
it in Timberwolves Lakers, but like there was a handful
of really physical series, like even Pacers Bucks. Those teams

(04:57):
just clearly don't like each other. It felt like we
were seeing people on the floor we five seconds.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Now.

Speaker 5 (05:01):
You could litigate whether that's good or bad because players
have to adjust to like a different type of game
based off the regular season.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
But for people that.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
Claim the NBA teams do not play defense, I think
this playoffs has kind of been proof that, like, no,
the game's actually still pretty physical and that team do
give a crap about the defense.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Absolutely, I was gonna say was kind of pigging back
into how you were kind of now analysizing, like how
the games in this first round went. Obviously the Pacers
kind of I would say stolen, maybe Game one kind
of caught, you know, the Calves kind of looking already
the game two. What did you take your take from
that of you know, maybe they took their foot off

(05:40):
the gas, maybe not playing such a I don't want
to say a tough opponent against the Heat in the
first round, but they kind of cruised for I would say,
is a fair word. Do you think that had anything
to do with them maybe losing and at home in
Game one?

Speaker 5 (05:53):
I think sometimes having extended rest can work against you,
just because you're coming off these other teams they've played
more recently, and if it wasn't, you know, the Warriors
coming out of that Rocket series. No, they need more
rest before they go up against the Timberwolves. They're not
gonna get it. But when you have so much time off,
I feel like it could rip you out of your flow.
I do really believe though it had more to do
with they didn't have Darius Garland and so just having

(06:15):
that second offensive outlet, like Dono Mitchell goals cold, the
Pacers are throwing a bunch Adam he's not hitting his threes.
Darius Garland's like your antidote to that in ways that
Evan Mobley or Ti Jerome is just not And the
other thing that I found interesting, and it's more it's
a credit to the Pacers for sure, who I think
had been underrated for a vast majority of the season.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
But like Cleveland was, their defense was weird.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
They were just overreacting to everything the Pacers were doing
inside the arc. I don't know if they got that
first quarter. Indie shot like eighty three percent on Tues,
so I don't know if they were like overreacting to
that one quart. There was a lot of wide open
threes for the Pacers when you look at what dem
Hard was hitting, when Nie Smith was hitting, Ben mcmathren
drilling a couple. So I'll be interest to see what

(06:57):
the adjustments are kind of there because these are two
team teams. And I think that's also another interesting storyline
in the playoffs is we talk a lot about rotation
shrink depth doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, but
it seems like there might be this trend of functional
depth is what I've grown to calling it, where it's
you're not just regular season deep, like you're gonna explore

(07:17):
your depth in the playoffs too. And we saw it
with Houston where they're they're probably the perfect team where
it's they might have a clear best player, whether it's
Aman Thompson or Alprinching, whoever you feel. But if you
pull someone off the court, you don't feel like it's over.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Where if you pull.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
Jalen brunts In off the court for New York, you
just feel like it's over. Like that's a whah. But
the Warriors and Steph even but like the Calves, the
Rockets who are now eliminated of course, even the Pacers,
Like I think that series is a good example of
just we might be getting sort of a litmus test
for no like maybe depth, like stars matter, they're gonna drive.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
NBA and championship success and all that.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Like depth is important too, if not so that you
can always play nine to ten guys, so that you
have the option of playing a bunch of different where oh,
our rotation is only gonna be seven guys, but it's
maybe not gonna be the same seven guys on a
game to game basis.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, I think go ahead, Dave.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
I think that's an interesting point because as you like,
everybody talking talking about the Lakers and and why they're
not here, and we're not really gonna spend a lot
of time on the Lakers because they're not in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
But I think to that point.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
To your point, that's exactly what we saw in that
Laker Timberwolve series. Is when Luca or Lebron had to
be off the court, that Laker team didn't stand a
chance against a deeper and admitted, younger Timberwolves team.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
And you saw.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
And I think that Indiana Cavs series, like you said,
is so fascinating to watch because, yeah, there are the stars,
but it doesn't feel like there's any give up when
the guys are off the court, when they're getting a blow,
it's still high octane. They can still score from anywhere,
they can play great defense. There's no give up in

(09:04):
those games. So when you look at the I want
to ask about the Cavs Pacers before we move off,
it is Indiana a better matchup maybe to the Calves
than the Celtics right now because of their depth.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
Maybe I think what helps out Indian in both Boston
in that scenario.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Is that like the Cavaliers don't have like.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
This power wing that you need to have another power
wing to check, and so like Boston has nothing but
power wings on the roster basically, So I think that
you get into the depth of it all, like, yeah,
there's some shallooness there. Jayalen Brown's dealing with the knee thing,
Drew Holliday's.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Pretty banged up.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Christops Porzingis has been he's missed a bunch of games
due to illnesses, like since January. I don't know if
that's manufactured or if he's actually sick with something. I
haven't dug into that, So there, there's definitely like a
risk there. But I think man like Boston has like
their top five is like perfect, and even with the
way Peyton Pritchard's been, like their top six you can even.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Argue is perfect. So I can't quite get there.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
But man like, I thought about that with Indy where
people worried about their defense, which one I think is underrated,
but two yeah, Nee Smith is not huge, Nemhart is
not huge, Like if you're going up against the Calves,
like you don't necessarily need that huge wing defender, and
so it's like a different you know, Aaron Smith Guardanians
attent to compo. He did a good job, but Giannis
is still gonna feast. We didn't see this with the

(10:26):
Calves a little bit. Like new Smith can just go
chase around Max Struz or go chase around Tyderome or
go chase around DeAndre Hunter.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
So that's a really interesting I think Boston.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
I default to Boston just because their top five is
so it's so high end and so well balanced.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I was gonna say this right now. I mean I've
been me and my buddies have been talking about it.
It's kind of like everyone's kind of written obviously Boston
into it. But the to win the conference just right now?
Have you bet it? It's minus one to sixty five
right now, which is insane to think about when you
have all these other teams like Cleveland, Indiana I think
has played good basketball. I think New York. He kind

(11:02):
of said it like if Jalen Brunson isn't on, I mean,
you know, you're kind of shit. You should have a lot, honestly,
do you think it's It is kind of like I
don't want to say they're in the driver's seat right
now or you know, they control their own destiny, destiny,
but it kind of feels like that right now with
the Celtics, like it's theirs to lose this at least
for the East.

Speaker 5 (11:21):
Yeah, I mean they're going up against a pretty favorable
matchup in the second round in the Knicks and where
I picked the Calves in five over the Pacers, more
so out of respect for the Calves, but I did
not realize the extent to which Darius Goron was injured.
And also I clearly didn't appreciate the Pacers enough. I think, Yeah,
it does feel like they're in the driver's seat in
the East for sure, because you probably have. We haven't

(11:43):
even seen like sort of their best punch yet, just
where it feels like all of their guys are coming.
Like christofsper Thinking was so bad in round one, and
part of that was the Orlando Magic defense for sure, But.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm a big band aid they put on his forehead.
I mean that was like the worst hate job I've
ever seen.

Speaker 5 (11:58):
Joe Mizzool is like, oh I love watching him bleed
or whatever he said a psychopath. So yeah, I have
defaulted like to be really good, and I've come close
to a point saying they should be the favorite to
come out of the East. But I've always defaulted to
the Celtics. And I will say, based off what we've
seen this playoffs, that really hasn't changed for me. And

(12:19):
like if you talk like if all of a sudden
we see that Jayalen Brown can we targeted on defense
or something, But like in the game that Jason Tatum
misses like he steps up. So it's just like, yeah,
the Celtics, they're not maybe they're not a perfect roster,
but they have like the perfect top five guys if
you need to win any given series.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Who then, Okay, out of the three teams left, we've
already kind of mentioned that this is not a great
matchup for the Knicks. But out of Cleveland in Indiana
and New York, who stands the best chance if there's
gonna be that team to knock off Boston in the East,
who is it?

Speaker 5 (12:51):
I do think it's Cleveland because when you just look
at the top four on their roster, I like star
power still matters to that extent, and I think that
you know, the Pacers did take some advantage of Jaron
Allen in space in Game one. I do still think
that comes back to a lot of like the Calves
maybe overreacting a little bit in those instances them not

(13:12):
having like a true premiere wing, Like are they gonna
have to go to Dean Wade or DeAndre Hunter?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
In Isaaca Korro series.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
There's Max Struce that worries me a little bit against
the Celtics specifically, but I think you have to like
their depth, the way that they shoot the three ball,
but normally game one notwithstanding, and just having like two
bucket getters and Donovan Mitchell and Darius gar On. They
worry something that they're two small guards, but if Darius
Garland is healthy, you arguably have like they have three guys.

(13:43):
When you're looking at the advantages Evan Mobley can create
this season where no one else, like the Pacers and
the Knicks. The Pacers have like two above average advantage creators.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Maybe three if you stretch it for Aaron Mhard.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
The Knicks have one. They don't even have a second one.
So they're just out. So I think it's the Calves.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Well, I was gonna he made a good effort.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, I mean, but it's fun. It's fun, you know
what it is all the Knicks have to do. In
my opinion, they just gotta win, like the first round
and like that that. I mean, obviously the Knicks fans
want to win at all, but like the city's probably
I mean, you you know, do you used to live
in New York Are, You're like, man.

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Here's the thing is that you don't get to trade
control of seven first round picks in one summer and
celebrate a first round victory. I think fans are gonna
be they expect them to lose, and I think this
is more about, oh, can they put up a fight?
And so if you you know, in the regular season,
not only were they own four, they lost the three

(14:42):
point battle by one hundred and seventeen points in four games.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
So if you go into this series and you.

Speaker 5 (14:48):
Saw Orlando running Boston off the three point line, and
you can't do any of that stuff, and it's not
even close if it's a gentleman's sweep, and like the
games aren't even like, you know, had the Knicks beat
the Pistons in five, missus Kim look back at like, oh,
look at the margins. So if you can say that
about the Knicks losing to the Celtics in five, that's
still a pretty meek moral victory for how much they

(15:09):
gave up to create this roster. But at least you
can say, oh, maybe the gap isn't that far. But
the problem with the Knicks is that until they show
otherwise and I know there are some fans they've been
mad about what I said on the Hardwoo Knocks podcast
about this series. Kudos to those fans for holding out hope.
I would say that verges on delusion. But like, if
the Knicks come in and they you see that the

(15:30):
gap between them and the team that they were built
to not beat, but contend with is light years, Like, yeah,
you have you have a major problem because you don't
have an easy out to fit. You don't have first
round picks to trade.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
McHale Bridges.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
I don't think he's been the problem.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
I think the Knicks have.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
I don't even think Tom Thibodeau is the problem. I
think the Knicks have a confounding mix of problems and
now they have no way to fix them, or I
should say virtually no way to fix them. And so
they're a really good roster. But like this season, I
actually think if you polled the average Knicks fans, they'd
be pretty.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Discouraged about this season.

Speaker 5 (16:09):
You give up that many first round picks and you
win one more game than you did last year, that's
not great.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Well, there's always another Villanova guy out there. You just
got to keep collecting them. And that's how like that'll
fix there for them.

Speaker 5 (16:21):
They're gonna end up signing like Kyle Lowry or something,
and that'll be like the Villanova guy they collect you
go to Villanova.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I can't remember. I have no idea. Probably that doesn't
sound right, but I like it. I'll just go with it.
That sounds Kyle Lowry will fix all the problems in
New York. That's the headline if I've ever heard one.
That should be the topic.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
That's who they could afford. And let's see, Yeah he
went to Villanova. I still know Mi Kyle Awie.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
There we go, There you go. I was gonna say,
it's like, if you know people have been been hitting
out it, like Thibodeau, maybe he might get the acts,
you know. I mean you can blame it on him.
Someone maybe has to fall on it. But I want
to ask you how long? And I don't think it's attainable,
but how long do you think it'll go with the
Jay Wright is going to be the next coach of
the next how long do you think they'll get that

(17:05):
to circulate? Like how like a week? Maybe they can
keep it going because like there's no way, but like
it'd be fun to like live out later they made
Villanova professional.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
I think that would have had more staying power. How
they never traded Dante DiVincenzo. Yeah, like they've shown that
they're not really married to it. Like everything it was
like the power of friendship, and it's like, well, like
they just traded like one of their.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
One of their homies.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
Honestly, though, you bring up a good point because Tim's
will probably get fired. I think if they really get
trucked in this series, and I'm not, I don't. I
actually don't think he's the right coach for this roster.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
But for the people that think that.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Firing him makes the Knicks better enough that they could
contend with the Calves the Celtics, I want to know
the coach because I've seen a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Like, look what happened to the Calves.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
They didn't change a bunch and Kenny Atkinson came in. Hey,
guess what Kenny Atkinson is now employed? What is employed?

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Like you need to play me.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
To the and you know, if Taylor Jenkins or Mike
Brown were such great shakes, like wouldn't they still be employed?
Like you could talk me into Taylor Jenkins being an
upgrade over Tibbs as an example. Okay, great, is he
the difference between you and maybe going one in eight against.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
The Celtics this season or whatever it ends? But no,
absolutely no.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, Mike Brown, though, let's start that. I like that.
That's a fun one to start too. Let's throw in back.

Speaker 5 (18:24):
I'm gonna start Jeff van Gundy like, let's yes.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yes, yes, Jeff, let's do this. I like this. Let's
start who else, Let's fill Jackson up to I mean,
he's gotta be doing.

Speaker 5 (18:38):
Honestly, I've enjoyed doing what I do for a living.
But the Phil Jackson erarow in New York was something
like the most miserable basketball and content I ever had
to cover.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I could imagine that's probably a bad one it could
have been. I mean, it had to be better than
like covering like Lebron's like the next every other summer
that happened.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
I didn't hate that because that's how I cut my
teeth covering the league when I first.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
But that's how old I am.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
I started.

Speaker 5 (19:05):
I started covering the league right after the Lebron decision,
and so everything was about all these teams gaming cap space,
trying to create the next Miami Heat, and so so
much of my coverage during those first like three years
was like just knowing the CBA and like how teams
were structuring their books. It's like, oh, that's why the
Knicks really wanted to trade for Tracy McGrady.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, okay, this makes sense. Yeah, all right, I like that.
That's kind of cool. Though. You gotta think you gotta
think Lebron by the way, do you think his MCL
is actually spraying? Do you guess?

Speaker 5 (19:37):
Because there's there, It wasn't like I could see why
people would be like, oh, Lebron's lining it, but they
said he suffered it like in that game.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
It wasn't at the beginning of the series.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
So the funnier joke coming out of that one is
did he throw the games that he wouldn't have to
miss subsequent series? But yeah, yeah, I think I think
he definitely suffered it because they were down by that
point anyway, and he was even before that injury, like
Julius Randall was doing a very good job defending Lebron James,
And so I don't you saying that you had an
MPTCL injury in that fin Like, I don't think that

(20:08):
that does anything to save you from that.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, I I just kind of like the theory that
his wife made him buy the met Galla table and
he was like, God, I really don't want to go
to this. How can I get out of this? And
Rich Paul was like, we could say that you're hurt
and you can't make the fight.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
I'll teach the Lakers to trade for Luca without telling you.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, exactly like that. Yeah, I'm just saying he posted this.
He goes, ah, I can't make the met Gala to night,
but my wife will be there.

Speaker 6 (20:33):
And it was like the most like he just gets
to stay home and hang out, Like he gets to
literally just drink wine and veno A and I and
just play Madden and he gets to live a great
life super him.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Then exactly, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
So Dave anything, he kind of I'm just I was
laughing that we took that detour Minnesota and Golden State.
I'm a little surprised when I was reading that Golden
State is fair this series? Are you shocked by this
one as much as I am?

Speaker 5 (21:05):
No? No, because I picked the Warriors in seven, but
like I don't feel good about it, and I actually
think the Timberwolves probably should be favored. But that's like
kind of a good reminder that betting markets are more
reflection of public interest in a certain team or winner
than like reality. It's why the Lakers championship oods are
always through the roof when, like you know, probably dating

(21:28):
back to the years where it was like, oh, is
their best player Kyle Kuzma, and yet they still have
better championship oods in like half the league.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Or whatever it was.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
So but I think you look at Golden State, they
are more proven.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
The fact that Steph Curry. You could look at it
one of two ways. They're either screwed because they had.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
To go through Houston's defense, or you look at the
end of that series with thirty seven year old Steph
Curry outlasting that Houston defense, like, oh, like you know,
Steph is still just through all things are pot with
Steph through all things are possible.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
You can still look with that.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
And I think the thing with Minnesota is like I
just don't trust their offense. And that's that's where the
Rudy Gobert problem comes into play. The fact that they're
bigger than Golden State, they might be able to like
kind of bullieve them.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
A lot of the time way they did the Lakers.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
Except Golden State does have, you know, like a real
big and Draymond Green. But like the problem with Rudy
Gobert is on offense, if you're going up against teams
that are smaller, he can't capitalize on mismatches and so
teams will play off of him. And I think Golden
State can do some creative stuff defensively, and one of
those shortcomings for Anthony Edwards right now, he has gotten better,
but it's just sometimes he can't read the room or

(22:34):
his decision making out of double.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Teams isn't as good. So I think it's fair to
have Golden State better.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
But I think logically, when you're looking at their depth,
what they just did to the Lakers, what the Warriors
just went through, their age, their lack of rest, it
would be fair to say that Minnesota should be favored.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, I mean I would agree with that. I The
real question I keep wondering is, like how many what
do you I've been trying to find it. What do
you think the over under and technicals is gonna be
in this series between like Raymond and like Rudy Gobert
and all of them. Like, I've been trying to find
that somewhere. I can't believe that's not available.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
Hardware Knocks put up our like Timberwolves Warriors primer, and
one of the comments was there, I'm gonna go Timberwolves
in six because I think Draymond gets suspended by like
game three or something. I was like, you know what,
like I don't consider that as like part of the equation,
but he's he came out of game seven and was like, yeah,
I really like buckled down and like I listened to
slow music before the game and I meditated and went

(23:32):
to the spa this morning. It was like, didn't you
just kick some dude in the neck in the middle
of that game?

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Whatever?

Speaker 5 (23:37):
It was, So is if that him, like, all calm,
if you're gonna go up against Rudy Gobert, who he's
already tried to like they've already been in choke hols
with one another.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
I was watching that today. I forgot that one. That
was a great one.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
That was enough about considering that stuff when I'm like
I'm so focused on like the big picture or like
the tactical stuff that it's no, like Raymond Green might
kill somebody and not be able to play for the
rest of this yeraries that.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Oh yeah, that's right. See that's where my mindset comes in.
I'm not a professional, so I can think the most
childish scenarios. All that you should.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
I mean, given Draymond Green's track record, the fact that
people have to ask him about like, oh, did you
change your morning routine to get more in the zone,
and like you need to consider that. And also he's
been pretty bad on offense too, so you need to
consider that as well. If we're talking about Rudy being
a liability, Uh, Minnesota is gonna give him like probably
fifteen to twenty feet of space on those wide open threes.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
They're just gonna put Rudy and Draymond one on one
the whole game, whole series, and it's just gonna be
whoever scores more is the reason why they won this series.
And if it's Gobert, Minnesota is advancing. If it's Green,
the Warriors are advancing.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I will not why if that's what the series becomes.

Speaker 5 (24:49):
I will not watch a second event in protest because
that would be some of the ugliest basketball that anyone's
ever watched.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I'm sure, yeah, they will have to replay the glass
every game.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I'm just really rooting for like Anthony Edwards continuous. That's like,
I'm gonna keep talking ship as long as I can
until like I start to just suck. I like that.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
Yeah, And there's also just like he's slayed a bunch
of playoff giant like Okay, Lebron, Luca down, he beat
they beat Jokic last year. Now was he gonna beat
Steph and Draymond? I will say, you're gonna We're gonna
get to a point because every star, every team has
this honeymoon phase where they can talk their smack and
it's kind of endearing. But you remember we felt that

(25:31):
way about the Grizzlies at one point, and then everyone
that Brooks and everyone still hated them.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Look, grenades were involved, duns got brought out. I mean
that's different.

Speaker 5 (25:42):
We're you know, yeah, you're not like, yeah, there's not
I guess the armory in Minnesota is not as deep
as it might be.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
They got like they got some ice fishing, they got
some uh, they got some cut the sheet of ice down,
some saws drills like that. Yeah, No, I don't I
don't know, I'm just looking forward to, Like I like that.
I like the game seven. It's kind of like weird
of like the storyline, like he's honestly going down like
a checklist of taking out like MBI NBA legends that

(26:10):
we all kind of grew up watching, which is like
becoming a storyline.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
Could you imagine living like living that out as like
who's his idol?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
So it's just like that's pretty cever. Yeah, I think.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
Look, I think Kavs Pacers now might give it a
run for its money. But if we're being objective about this,
and I know Nuggets fans are, they're pretty angry that
I picked thunder and five, Like Wolves Warriors should probably
be the most compelling second round series. Like I think
Cavs Pacers can give it a run, but like Boston
and Oka, see, like if they don't take care of business,
we're all gonna have some questions about them with the
teams that they're facing. So I'm really excited about the

(26:47):
Warriors Wolf series. I'm hoping that Golden State has like
because the fact that they lost those two games after
going up, they just look tired and not engaged.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
So I hope that they have like the stamina.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
But I just Steph is like the older star, even
maybe more lebron at this point and more so than
in the rant where it's like I will just believe
that he's going.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
To continue to do this until he doesn't anymore.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
All Right, Dan, I'll want to get you out of
here on this because you mentioned the Thunder and the Nuggets.
This is the only series we haven't talked about. If
the if the Nuggets somehow pull this off, how do
they do it?

Speaker 5 (27:20):
I think it ends up being that just like the
two things I would look at is despite having two bigs,
did okay see just prove to be too small because
you do have a lot of size in Denver with
Aaron Gordon and Michael Porter Junior next to Jokich. Christian
Brown has good size, Peyton Watson has good size, and
I think maybe even the bigger thing. And I actually
don't believe this will be an issue, but it has

(27:41):
been an issue in the past. Where are you generating
your offense if the Thunder or excuse me, if the
Nuggets like blitz Shay Gilders Alexander and make life difficult
on him.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
I think Jay Dupp is that good.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
I think the data shows that when he's playing without
Shay and at least one of Chet and Isaiah Harnstein
aer on the court. If not both, the thunder make
it work and their defense is so good it might
not matter. But if they lose this series, I will
look back and wonder if it's I would guess we're
looking back and wondering, Oh, they still don't have like
that second in command on the offensive end, to not
just when Shay's off the court, Blake when she's on

(28:14):
the court, to kind of create everything for themselves and
everybody else.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
All right, Well, Dan, it is always a pleasure when
we get to have you on this podcast. We got
you out of here just in time so you can
see Game one and break down as you always do
so well on the Hardwood Knocks podcast, the Knicks and
the Celtics. Thank you for taking some time with.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Us, no problem.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Thank you guys for having me. As always, I will
talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
All right, We have Ian Cummings a Pro Football Network. Next,
welcome back to the Opening kick Off Podcast. Dave Silon,
Little Peyton Gerard. David Miles has now joined us, and
with good reason because our next guest is probably one
of our favorites. It's a favorite type of pod. We
just wrapped up with Dan Favali a Bleacher Reports on
the NBA playoffs. We could not could not not have

(29:00):
this guy willing to help us.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Talk about the NFL Draft. But our good.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Friend Ian Cummings, a Pro Football Network back with us,
and Ian, you and Peyton have a little bit of
reconciling that you guys were doing a little bit pre
show here. Yeah, what is your reaction seeing Peyton right now?

Speaker 7 (29:19):
Mainly you know, happiness, a little bit of like where
have you been? You know, a little salty, you know,
because he was like, like he was saying before the show,
he was the one that was trying to get me
back on right when I was back in the scene
and now and then he's not there, like come on, man, back.

Speaker 8 (29:31):
Up to talk.

Speaker 7 (29:32):
No, I'm happy to see Peyton, happy that things are
going well on the on the on the personal side,
and you know, happy to be back with you guys.
You know, I think it's always one of one of
my funner stops on the NFL Draft talk podcast circuit,
you know, And I think a lot to sip through
from the from the draft this past that. Actually it's
over a week ago now. It's all time flies. Man,
it was past and then it's over, you know, and

(29:54):
and we're into summer scouting now. But I mean, the
NFL Draft was really exciting. I think a lot of
different storylines to kind of parse through, and a new
wave of talent for all thirty two teams. So it's
one of the best times of the year. And we
still have plenty to talk about afterwards.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Well, I want to ask you this now that we're
a week removed from this, what is your biggest takeaway
for the NFL Draft?

Speaker 7 (30:20):
My biggest takeaway? Hmmm, that's a good question, I think honestly,
my biggest takeaway is some teams are low enough for
twenty twenty six. You know, I think the Rams getting
an extra first rounder. I think the Browns getting an
extra first rounder too, I think, you know, and the
lack of QB is being picked as well. You know,

(30:41):
just cam Warden round one and then Tyler Shuck to
the Saints, but they were kind of desperate with their
situation with dere At Carr. So I think, you know,
teams twenty twenty five NBLE Draft is going to be
very impactful, you know, and some teams, like we've always
said from the start, this was a starter draft, you know,
like not a ton of blue chip talent, not a
ton of high level QB talent. But you know, if
you draft right away in you know, late round one

(31:03):
to round three or even round four, you could get
three or four starters within that range. Right But twenty
twenty six really looks exciting on the surface level right now.
You know, I think the blue chip talent could be,
could be in higher volume in that class. And then
there are a ton of qbs with potential early round
up side as well. So I think, you know, looking

(31:24):
at those factors, you know, you see the teams like
the Browns who could be in QB. The conversation very
much so next year, you know, I think teams are
you never want to look at it too much because
every class has plenty of talent to work with, but
twenty twenty six could be could be something well what
to see. But as my biggest takeaway, my next biggest
takeaway again is probably you know, the quarterbacks. It's going

(31:46):
to be really interesting to see how they how they
kind of settle out cam Ward going number one of
the Titans obviously a big storyline, But then you know,
how are the rest of these guys going to pan out?

Speaker 8 (31:56):
Right?

Speaker 7 (31:56):
I think Tyler Schuck going to the Saints. Derek Carr's
availability is in question for the entire twenty twenty five seasons,
So just Shuck get an opportunity to be a starter,
does he end up being a long term starter?

Speaker 8 (32:07):
From this group?

Speaker 7 (32:07):
Shadar Sanders and Dylan Gabriel, how do they settle out?
And that really really you know, stocked Cleveland QB room
like it's stocked with options, but are they good options?
Probably not, So it's like, how does that settle out too?
And then Jalen Milroe going to Seattle? You know how
what's the conversation there with Sam Donald? Obviously Donald is
their guy, you know, for the three year contract, but

(32:28):
you know, obviously getting Milroe shows that they wanted some
developmental potential in the wings too, So a lot of interesting,
you know, QB developmental things to follow as well. But
then I think beyond that, just you know, winning the
day two in the day three range, you know, round
one is important, but I think there was a lot
of value to be had this year and certain teams
kind of pounced on it.

Speaker 9 (32:48):
Yeah, so far removing I love the topics you brought up,
objecting multiple quarterbacks, but.

Speaker 10 (32:55):
What is the what is the pick or the team
you still that still has your head scratching from that
whole that whole weekend one thing that you just can't
comprehend or.

Speaker 9 (33:07):
You don't you you you don't see the vision.

Speaker 7 (33:10):
Yeah, you know, I would think the Browns and the
way they managed the QB position was a little tricky
for me. And round five getting Sreger Sanders from a
Tamil perspective, I think was a really good value pick.
You know, I think there are questions about how he's
gonna fit, but I think, you know, falling to the
round five, you'd like to hope that this will kind
of light a fire under him and you know, have
a chip on his shoulder moving forward. And I think

(33:31):
that you know, they made up for the Dylan Gabriel pick,
which was really head scratching to me, you know, seeing
him go off the board on day two. Dylan Gabriel
was one of the most productive collegiate qbs of all time, right,
but he kind of had he had a round seven
grade for me. You know, I just don't see the
NFL calibers tools from a starting perspective, and then you know,
at the same time, operationally he can be inconsistent too,

(33:51):
So you know that to me, that looked like the
coaches trying to stave off the owners and say, we
already picked a QB so we won't get Shutter.

Speaker 8 (34:01):
But then the owners eventually stepped in.

Speaker 7 (34:02):
You know, just speculation, but you know, it looked like,
you know, some inconsistent process on the surface. So whenever
you see an inconsistent process midway through a draft, you
got to think that you know, the decision makers are
you know, there's there's a tug of war there, right,
So that pick was kind of tricky to me. I
think Jackson Dart going in round one. I said only

(34:23):
one KB went in round one. I forgot Jackson Dart,
which I didn't have a first round grade on Jackson Dart.
I think the Giants trading up for him is going
to be a really interesting move. I do think they
have enough supporting talent to potentially allow him to succeed,
and Elite Neighbors is coming into his own. I think
the offensive line is improving, but there's still some pretty
big long term questions on the interior offensive line and

(34:44):
at right tack with Evan Neil, right, so they really
need to settle that and get that position group figured
out if Dart is going to reach a ceiling there.
But then even then, you know, how do you split
the snaps? So I think that one was kind of
head scratching one too, just because Joe Shane and Brian Dable, right,
how much time.

Speaker 8 (35:03):
Do they have.

Speaker 7 (35:04):
They've already had several sub standard years with Daniel Jones.
They kind of tied themselves to him, and now you're
asking for more time with a rookie QB and Jackson Dart.
But you know, at the same time, a bad year
could mean the end of that regime. And now Jackson
Dart will get the rug pulled out from one room too,
So that one is a little tricky, and then one
more real quick. James Pearce Junior, the Falcons trading their

(35:26):
first rounder next year for him. As much as they
needed pass rush help, I really think they would have
gotten better value getting someone in round two keeping that
first rounder because we don't know if the Falcons are
going to be competitive in the NFC yet, right The
defense still is a long way to go. They did
add pieces to it. I like the Billy Bowman selection
a lot. I like the Xavier Watts selection a lot.

(35:48):
But at the same time, you know that offense too,
like Michael Penks Junior, we don't know exactly what he
is at the stage either. So that's a move that
I would have made if I know for sure I'm
going to be in contention. You know, if I know
for sure I'm gonna be playoff contender, I make that move.
I think that was kind of premature for the Falcons,
and I wonder if that comes back to bite them too,
because James Pierce Jr. As good as he is as

(36:09):
a pass rusher, I think in run defense, there's some
question marks. I think, you know, the ben component isn't
there as much as you'd like, So, you know, too
many question marks for me to be head over heals
with that.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
I was gonna ask you about the Falcons. I wanted
to know because they were jumping for joy when they
got when they got back in there, and it looked
like one of those things that could come back. It's
an ultimate like video moment of like this could actually
be super cool in four years or you guys are
like literally you know, justin Jefferson Vikings like pick like
you become that forever. So just interesting. Also, they could

(36:42):
have done this last year where they really needed upfront help.
They're like a year behind on like their actual needs,
which is just kind of like funny, but I will
root for them. I wanted to say and give you
your flowers. I asked you immediately when I found out
you got your recruiting or your scouting hat back of
watching film. I asked you immediately for who the Steelers

(37:03):
to draft, and I want you to know for like
however long the Steelers are on the clock. You said
they're going to take Matthew Golden and he was available
there and I was screaming. I'm like, dude, it's Matthew
Golden one percent and then he goes two picks later.
I'm like, motherfucker this guy, but I'll give it to you. Yeah,
that's pretty that's pretty close right there. Twenty one, twenty three.

(37:23):
That's pretty pretty good. I want to know how much
film did you can like watch, like in the time
that you were like, all right, you're the scout guy again,
like because you're used to like breaking out over time.
I feel like you had to watch like eighteen hours
of film a day and like just condense it all.
So one have you slept and how much film have

(37:44):
you watched in like that time?

Speaker 7 (37:46):
I have gotten a chance to sleep since then, thankfully. Yeah,
and one one quick note on the Falcons, who is
just to wrap that up? I will give them credit
for attacking a deficiency, getting Jalen Walker and James Pears
will see if it works. But you know, on the
film question, I want way too much this cycle man,
because like some factors were out of my control. You know,
I got moved away from the scouting side, and then

(38:06):
I got moved back, but I was only back for
you know, in March and then April so and then March.
You know, you're kind of the NFL combine is there,
So you can't dive right into the film. You got
to follow the combined results and you know, the storylines there.

Speaker 8 (38:20):
So it was a lot. It was.

Speaker 7 (38:22):
There was one week where I was finishing up my
top tens for our draft guide that we were putting together.
It wasn't you know, hopefully we'll be able to go
even more. Hopefully we'll be able we'll have more time
to put it together and really go all in with
it this cycle. But when I was that one week
when I was finalizing my top tens, because you can't
just watch ten guys. You got to watch a lot
of players to see who you exclude from your top

(38:44):
tens as well, right, so you got to build out
an entire board. I think I watched tape from like
seven thirty am to at least seven thirty pm, sometimes
nine PM.

Speaker 8 (38:54):
Like, I was watching at.

Speaker 7 (38:56):
Least ten hours of tape probably every day that week.
It was because you're trying to cram five months of
scouting work in the in the one month. It was
not It wasn't easy. It was definitely, but it kind
of sets the barometer, you know, if I like to think,
if I can watch that much tape, uh, this cycle
should be easier, you know, because it's so spread out.
I just gotta make sure I don't overcorrect and take

(39:18):
too much time off. I do have a vacation later
this month, so I'm gonna I'm gonna take that. I'm
gonna use it to the fullest. But I've watched a
lot of tape and that's kind of the Unfortunately that's
just kind of how you have to do it, you know,
because everything comes from the tape, the diagnostics, what a
guy shows on film. You really have to be rooted
in that, you know. And if you just follow storylines,

(39:39):
if you just like see statistics and data and go
off of that, like that's great. But I feel like
the tape provides the the fullest allignment of contacts so
you can get and so that's why it's really important
just to dive in and you know, everything down.

Speaker 8 (39:52):
So it was a lot. My eyes are still recovering,
but we're getting the I was gonna.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Say, I mean, I just I feel like you're not
a guy. Just from our interactions, you're not a guy.
It's gonna do something half asked, Like when you get
the task, you're like, I'm doing all of it. Like
they're like they're probably like, you know, we know you
can't probably watch it all and you're like, dude, I'm
watching it all. You're like, I'm in it.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
So I'm on the clock for I'm on the clock
nine to five on the schedule technically, but like, yeah, no,
if I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna go all in.

Speaker 8 (40:18):
And I think that's how you have to be with
scouting football.

Speaker 10 (40:22):
Watch more film.

Speaker 9 (40:23):
He's watched more films some of our team.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Dude, Yeah, I mean I usually I usually checked out
pretty early. I didn't play a ton, so I was
kind of like, what am I watching? Like they're gonna go, yeah,
they're gonna ask me, like, what do you think here?
I don't know, Doggley gold fucking do the same thing
we've always thought exactly. But to an actual more serious question,

(40:49):
when you were watching the draft, for sure, everyone's seen it,
the milk Piper blow up, like just how double like
he was. He was just tripling quadribbling down on what
he thought is an elsis was have you had a
moment like that, like just sitting when you're watching it
or anybody you're like, man, they're messing this up, like
this is wrong like that, like like because like I mean,

(41:11):
I've had moments where I'm like, you know, play I mean,
hand up, Kenny Pickett. I went to battle for that guy. Wait,
I mean forever, like way too to tell you to
tell me, but it was like that was me too.

Speaker 8 (41:23):
That was definitely one of my learning experiences.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I mean, yeah, but have you had anyone where you're
like sitting there and you're just tripling down. You know,
you might not even know the result of it, you
know what I mean, Like you might not know if
it's actually worked out or not. But has there been
anybody You're like, these guys are wrong, dead wrong.

Speaker 7 (41:41):
I think I've had less of those moments the farther
I've gotten into scouting. You know, that's good When I
was younger, you know, yeah, And I think if you
have a certain degree of conviction, it's okay to have
those moments for sure, you know, because to a degree,
what you see on the tape does it doesn't predetermine
what happens at the NFL level, but there are some
predictive elepments, right, Like the guy struggles with something at

(42:04):
the collegiate level against high level competition, it's reasonable to
expect that it could be a limitation at the NFL level,
right against NFL competition. So you know, you learn to
you learn to find what's translatable and go from there.
But earlier on, early on in my scouting career, when
I was kind of I was at fan sided. I
was kind of a part time writer and everything, and
I was dabbling in the draft space and you know, uh,

(42:25):
twelve eleven teams passed on Josh Rosen and I was like, oh,
they made a mistake. Man, that's going to come back
to bite him. It didn't, but you know, you have
those moments, I think when you're more emotionally attached to
your opinions and your observations. Right, And I'm not just
sing mel Kuiper like he's the godfather of the of
the NFL draft, you know, like he's one of the best,

(42:47):
one of the you know, most story draft analysts in
the business.

Speaker 8 (42:50):
And I think one is.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Seven on seven tournament. No big deal. It was a
big deal, but we wonted mel Kuiper seven on seven
tournament Maryland, right.

Speaker 8 (42:57):
The casual flat we shook whatever. That's cool.

Speaker 7 (43:01):
Yeah, No, He's a legend, no for real, and he's
he definitely deserves the respect.

Speaker 8 (43:05):
It's just like I do.

Speaker 7 (43:07):
Think that watching the clip, you know, and how insistent
he was there, definitely felt like there was an agree
a degree of emotional attachment to the stance, which is fine.
You know, you can be dialed in, you can be
invested in what you feel. But you know, to me,
scouting has always been the one thing that I noted
about scouting pretty early on, Like this was after Josh.
I had my learning experiences early on, you know, and

(43:29):
there was a point I can't remember what year it
was when I was just like, you know, I was
more resolts oriented. I would pick players to plant my flag,
you know, and just be like emotionally like rallying around
this guy, like, oh, this is my guy who was
going to break out and be a stud. And I
kind of realized that you have to be really process
oriented when it comes to scouting. You have to figure
out what's translatable, you have to figure out what works

(43:51):
and what doesn't, and you have to kind of put
together a stable, a repeatable process that gets results right.
You can't be results oriented. So I think, you know,
looking at that, it's helped me realize that scouting, you
can be emotionally invested in the process, but to be
emotionally invested in certain players and outcomes like that's going
to occlude your process because it's going to ultimately affect

(44:15):
your It's going to affect you. Bias may seep in
through that. So I think, you know, for me, I've
had less of those moments as time is going on
I think you have to. As much as you like
to be dialed into the process, you have to try
and separate your emotions from it. You just have to
look at the diagnostics, the pure information on film, and.

Speaker 8 (44:32):
I try to. I try to.

Speaker 7 (44:34):
I like to think if I was giving a scout
and report to a player to tell him where he
can improve, you know, I'd be doing him a disservice
if I was trying to, you know, gass him up,
be all emotional like yeah, you know you're you're going
to be the guy like no, I'm going to give
you an honest accounting of the strengths and weaknesses. And
I feel like anything less, anything you know, more emotional,
you know, more occluded, is gonna it's not going to
be as valuable as it can be. So my I,

(44:56):
I've had less of those moments. I think anytime I
see a PI I mentioned the picks that I didn't
fully agree with, like Jackson D.

Speaker 8 (45:02):
James Pierce Jr.

Speaker 7 (45:03):
Even though I don't fully agree with those picks, I
still try to keep a frame of mind where I
am addressing the devil's advocate side of it, right, you know, like, oh,
you know, here's how it could work out, right, here's
how it could, you know, prove me wrong, you know.
But at the same time, I think you bring up concerns,
you bring up potential counter arguments, and you don't you
say outcome independent because we don't know what's gonna happen

(45:26):
with these players. There will be an outcome down the
line for each of them, but right now we simply
don't know. So I think we have to be open
minded there and open minded of you know, the fact
that we could be wrong too, you know, I think
that's a possibility as well.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Great answer, So let me ask you this is yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Let me ask you this ian about the shad Or Sanders,
And then I want to talk about teams had a
good What in your eyes did you take away from
his slide, Because to me, there were two things that
were true. I think you're gonna have two sides of this.
The one was he wasn't seen by the league as
a first round talent, and there were enough questions about

(46:08):
the arm strength, the level of competition, all that stuff
factored into I think why the teams didn't feel he
was a round one. And then I think the slide
happened because you don't want to have all that drama
for a backup quarterback, but as a guy that breaks
down these prospects. What did you make of the slide?

Speaker 7 (46:30):
Yeah, I think and there's been a lot of analysis
on it since the draft, and I've you know, I've
I've kind of taken taken tidbits and kind of thought
about him. And you know, obviously I don't have any
firsthand knowledge on you know, what happened in team meetings
or anything. You know, I'm not an insider, so I can't.
I wish, you know, I'd like to speak to that,
but there's there's some things that I simply don't know.

(46:51):
What I do know is that he did not great
as a first round talent. For me personally, he graded
more of like a top fifty talent.

Speaker 8 (46:58):
You know.

Speaker 7 (46:58):
I think my physical for him was Brock Purdy. I
think he's a guy who, you know, doesn't have the
high end physical talent. He's a decent athlete at the
QB position, but not a high level creator. He has
a good arm, but not a great, not an elite arm, right,
And I think when you don't have that elite physical talent,
your margin for error as an operational prospect when it

(47:19):
comes to progression work, when it comes to pocket discipline,
you know, things like that, your margin for error is
much slimmer. And I do think he was good operationally.
I think his pre snap work was really good. He
had good pre snap identification skills. His accuracy was phenomenal,
but again not good enough on the operational side to
counteract the non elite physical talent. So he wasn't a
first round talent for me. And then I think, once

(47:42):
he's not a first round talent and you're not drafting
him to be your starter, then the conversation of what
does he give you in the locker room that potentially
holds even more weight because you don't want this guy,
like you said, to bring in more drama if he's
not even going to be a potential franchise QB right,
And I think should Sanders? You know, there's been a
lot of discussion about, you know, should Sanders and the

(48:05):
dialogue around him this cycle, and I some people have
been concerned that, you know, there's ulterior motives for some
people's stances on him, and you know, obviously you know
an opinion of how he carries himself, you know, being
very confident. I think that confidence is a very important
thing to have at the QB position. You also want
to make sure it doesn't stem to arrogance. And I
think every case is different, right, you know, should Sanders

(48:28):
his specific case. There are instances going back to the
spring game in twenty twenty four where players were transferring
out of Colorado and he's tweeting that, you know their
mid we're better off about them anyway, Like.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Dude, forget that that was an all time one. That
was a good one. Oh forgot?

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (48:43):
And I think, like, you know, NFL teams and organizations
are going to look at that and say like that
that might concern us, right, And then you know, throws
a pick six against Nebraska postgame interview. What happened there?
Receiver ran the wrong route? That might be true, but
I don't think you throw your teammate under the bus
public either, right. And then the way that he carried
himself through the pre draft process, you know a lot

(49:04):
of reports were saying that he was acting like he
was going to be a top five pick and would
turn down meetings with teams, right, and things like that,
And again I don't have I don't have first hand
primary source information there. But you know, everything that I'm
that I saw and everything that we took in is
that he wasn't the first round talent, and then he
wasn't good enough to reconcile all of the potential makeup

(49:24):
issues that teams had with them. Right, So I think
where we go now, The Browns took him in round five.
They took a chance on him, and I hope that
it will be both a learning experience for him and
I think, you know, this is a comment that's been
made too. I think maybe Shader Sanders would have benefited
from having an agent, you know, because he didn't have
an agent. It was mainly his dad that they were
working with. And I think that, you know, would have

(49:45):
maybe had a better evaluation going forward, something better to
work with, maybe would have handled it a little bit better. So,
you know, we'll never know at the stage, but now
that he's with the Browns, picked in round five, I
hope it'll be a learning experience for him, and I
hope it'll light a fire, you know, say like, hey,
here's some things that I can do a little bit
better to maybe be a better teammate, to maybe take
advantage of this opportunity. But then at the same time too,

(50:06):
you know, he does have an opportunity in Cleveland.

Speaker 8 (50:09):
There is not an established starter there.

Speaker 7 (50:11):
I think, you know, you got Kenny Pickett, you got
Joe Flacco, you got Dylan Gabriel, like I think Shader
Sanders talent wise, can emerge as the starter, but he's
got to go about it the right way. He's got
to be a professional on day one. And I think,
you know, he's proven that he can be a high
level operator when it comes to processing, when it comes
to accuracy, But you got to come in day one
and you got to earn it right. You can't have

(50:32):
anything given to you. And I think this will be
a new case for him because to his credit, he
produced everywhere he went. But also he was just he
was deon Sanders' starter right away at Jackson State. He
was deon Sanders' starter right away at Colorado, So you
know there's a degree of he did earn it. He
was a good high school player too, But now he's
got to earn it from someone else, and I think

(50:53):
there'll be a very different situation for him. Really excited
to see, you know, how it goes, because I am
rooting for him. I think, you know, being in Cleveland
is a great chance for him. Kevin Stefanski. It's a
well put together offense with some underrated firepower, Jerry Judy
coming off a really good year. David and Joku is
still there. I think if Sugar Sanders can make the
most of it, I think he can come away and
eventually becoming an NFL starter. But this situation kind of

(51:16):
proves that there's still still some work to do in areas.
So complex situation, not something you're going to see every year.
But I think another lesson to take away from it
from the media side is that you know, if there
is a guy who's not a first round talent and
there are complications like that that could affect it.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Stock.

Speaker 10 (51:35):
I hate to harp on the Brown because I've already
mentioned them, but it's kind of one of a unique
situation where they have five qbs in the lining and
all of them could be a starter in some place. Yeah,
what do you do in a situation?

Speaker 9 (51:47):
I mean, granted, we all know that we all know
that Watson is already within question and he's got his issues,
but within the other four, how do you how do
you cut that up, especially with you drafting two quarterbacks
in that drave which one of them goes you get
rid of the older guy? How would you be in
that you watched film?

Speaker 10 (52:06):
What is your now for some the.

Speaker 8 (52:07):
Situation, Yeah, it's kind of.

Speaker 7 (52:09):
It's not a situation that I would be envious of
if I'm another team.

Speaker 8 (52:12):
For sure.

Speaker 7 (52:12):
That's it's a lot of because you only have so
many practice reps, you know, like you have to figure
out how to distribute them evenly. And I think having
two young qbs to nurture that makes it even tougher
man two mid round young qbs, because you know, again,
I think the early years are really important for installating
that development. And they're gonna each of the reps are
going to be have because they're both there kind of

(52:35):
cannibalizing those reps off of each other, So it'll be interesting.
I forgot to mention Deshaun Watson earlier. I don't even
process him in the conversation. Man, there's just so.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Much it makes no sense.

Speaker 7 (52:46):
It makes no sense, man, It's it's crazy. But I think, yeah,
I think it is nice having a guy like Joe
Flacco in there because he's a veteran not only a veteran,
but he was with the Browns and I think twenty
twenty three any one comeback player or the year with
them down the stretch. So I think, you know, he
at least has familiarity with the offense. They know that
they can put him out there, and he probably doesn't

(53:08):
have as much juice as he did two years ago.
You know, he kind of showed noticeably down turned with
the Colts, but still, you know, an experienced player who
I think at least allows you to you know, you
don't have to worry about him as much.

Speaker 8 (53:22):
You know, maybe you can peel away from his reps
a little bit.

Speaker 7 (53:24):
Kenny Pickett, you know, as much as I was a
big Kenny Pickett fan coming out, and that was a
learning experience for me as well when it comes to
QB evaluation. But I think if it were me and
I'm the Browns, I and this is just me, like,
I don't know if they'll do this, I would prioritize
the young qbs. I really would, you know. I think
Kenny Pickett, you kind of know what he is at
this point. I think that Joe Flacco again, you know

(53:46):
what he is. He can be a really good stop
gap a safety blanket for you in that QB room.
But Shuitar Sanders, I honestly think he does have the
talent to potentially be a starter in that in that room.
You know, whatever you think of him, whatever you thought
of him before, people think of them now. Like I
genuinely think if there weren't any red flags with the makeup,

(54:06):
he would have gone on day two, you know, And
I think he would have gone that in that range
with Tyler Shuck and Jaln Milroe, and we'd be talking
about him as someone who could win the starting job.
So I think the perception around those picks, if you
shuffle them around and you know, assume that Sanders one
day two, I still think he has the ability to
be a starter, just gonna lock in and take it.
And I think that, you know, it'll be good opportunities.

(54:27):
So if I were the Browns, I would give them.
I would give him. I would give Dylan Gabriel, even
though I'm not super high on Dylan Gabriel and the talent,
but they took him round three, so obviously they have
a slightly higher opinion of him. I would give those
young qbs a shot to win it because I ultimately,
I think if you start with Kenny Pickett or washed
Joe Flacco, you're looking at an outcome that's pretty similar.

Speaker 8 (54:48):
Right.

Speaker 7 (54:49):
You know, the offense is not going to be very consistent.
So when it's a zero sum situation, let the young
talent try and shine through, you know, let those guys
prove it. Give them the reps to do it, because
I think and helping them prepare. I think preparing them
adequately that that's gonna be the key, right because we
have seen teams like not give rookie QB's reps in

(55:09):
the summer and then thrust them in the starting lineup
mid season and it doesn't go well because they don't
have those reps under their feet, right, So I think,
get them established, get them, you know, strengthen their understanding
of the offense, and just let the young talent roll
because at the end of the day, if they if
someone if Shoulder Sanders, proves he's the guy or not
proves he's the guy, if he shows promise, then maybe

(55:31):
you don't have to spend Round one pick on a quarterback.
Best case scenario in twenty twenty six, and if you
give them reps and they don't prove it, then at
least you know what you have and you can go
into the twenty twenty six offseason with full confidence that yes,
we're going after a QB. So I think it's an
information gathering process and I think to do that, you
got to give the young guys a chance.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
I wanted to task he already kind of mentioned it.
Next year's kind of the you know, the big one,
the big it's a big QB class is a lot
of talent across the board and a lot of different areas.
If you were, you know, a betting guy or anything
like that. Who who were you? Are you gonna stick with?
Our cheer is Drew Aller, the guy like you know,
I'm not sure have you even dove into that or

(56:13):
you're maybe you're since because of last year, you're diving
in already you're already watching tape as much as you can.
Who Who do you lean for? Who do you think
the sweepstake is for that number one pick? Who's everyone
tanking for? Or should they not tank? Should they just
keep playing, play their hardest?

Speaker 7 (56:30):
The answer is always tank, don't kidding, They'll they'll always tank.
But I think you know, looking at the class, and
I have watched enough of the twenty twenty six group.
So here here's another thing from this cycle. Like I
had to finish my twenty twenty five watching early because
for the final week before the NFL Draft, I was
actually doing an impression watch of as many twenty twenty

(56:51):
six guys as they could. Now, an impression watch is
what I like to call it. I like to call
it an impression watch because I'm not writing notes or anything.
I'm just some you know, watching, because writing notes it
takes a little bit longer, right, you know, I wanted
I needed to get an initial twenty twenty six board down,
so I just watched as much tape as I can
just get an impression of guys. You know, let that

(57:11):
recall do its work, and you know, see where guys
excel and where they don't cut up clips if I
if I see anything notable. And I did watch enough
the QB group to at least get an impression, right Arch,
And I tweeted a threat of Arch Manning too, so
I've kind of watched one of his starts a little
more in depth. Arch Manning, I'm not sure if he
even declares, right, that's kind of the tricky part. He's
only got two starts. He was a five star.

Speaker 8 (57:33):
Number one overall recruit.

Speaker 7 (57:34):
I do think the talent is very much there, really
good athlete at six four to two twenty five, really
good arm talent as well, but a lot of the
trademark flaws of a young QB are there on tape too.
So I'm gonna, you know, we're in wait and see
mode with Arch. If he produces at a high level
this year, he could declare, But he's also man. He's
a man, he's a manning and they stay in college.

(57:55):
And then at the same time too, he's the top
he's the top value ANIL athlete in all college, so
I think, like he has no monetary incentive to go
to the NFL early.

Speaker 8 (58:04):
He could easily stay, you know, all four years.

Speaker 7 (58:07):
And that's the key, Like he's got to play well
enough where stripe while the iron is hot.

Speaker 8 (58:11):
Because there's no room left to rise, right.

Speaker 7 (58:13):
I think that's the one of the only scenarios where
he declares could happen because he has a lot of
support there. But I'm in wait and see mode with that,
so we'll see.

Speaker 8 (58:21):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (58:21):
Leonora sellers from South Carolina is one six six three
two forty. Really good athlete, really good creator, super twitchy, energetic, explosive.
He's got a really easy throwing motion to elastic, high
velocity arm. Tough player with great contact resistance too, And
even though he's still developing as a passer, I really

(58:42):
like that he doesn't take unnecessary risks. He's really good
at taking care of the football, you know, keeping things
you know, under under wraps and controlled. And I'm seeing
the stat break down there like you were ready to go,
you were cute up man can't prepared.

Speaker 8 (58:59):
I like it.

Speaker 7 (58:59):
I like it, But Lenora sellers he's got the talent
to elevate too. Kate Clubnick from Clemson is another one
that I've liked a lot. He kind of reminds me
of bon Nix. I'm not gonna lie. I think, you know,
the off platform ability, the creative ability with his fluidity
and agility change the direction, but the arm elasticity to
lair of throws as well. But I think he might
be a better processor than the Knicks was coming out.

(59:21):
I think Kate Clubnick might have a better you know,
understanding of leverage IQ. You know when to you know
how to work defenders off spots and and throw guys open.
I really like that part of his game. He's really
a smooth operator, so Kate Clubnick a very different style
player than Sellers. You know, he's a little bit smaller,
a little bit leaner. You know, I don't think as
you know, dynamic of a runner, but still really fluid creator.

(59:44):
I think a guy like a ball handler like bon Nicks,
if you put him in a Champagne style offense, he
could thrive. And then there's a few other guys too
that going down the line, like Drew Hollur is interesting.
I was watching some of his game film today. He's
got a rocket arm. I think he's a decent athlete
for size. Really good ball handler again where he can
operate on misdirections, rollouts, things like that. And he's a

(01:00:05):
really good processor too. Pre snap, he can actually make
checks of the line. I think he has some of
the most command in this QB class. And then after
the snap, you know, post snap, he's he's got good
anticipation too, but his accuracy is still kind of all
over the place. He needs to keep improving that because
his mechanics, you know, his footwork will either be two
lax or two frenetic, and you know, either way, it's

(01:00:28):
gonna tug your shoulders out of proper alignment and it's
gonna make your trajectory really unstable. So I need to
see him improve the accuracy. But he's got the talent,
he's got the processing ability. I think all of those
things are there. So this QB class, I think the
one that we're seeing coming up. And there's a few
other names too that I haven't had a chance to
watch in depth yet, but I'm really excited to Fernando
Mendoza transferring from cal to Indiana is a big wild

(01:00:50):
card in the class. I think that, you know, he'll
be a very interesting one to watch, and there's plenty more.
But looking at the class, there's definitely talent there will
all of the players declare not sure. Arch Manning is
the biggest, the biggest wild card there, but Lenora Seller's
k klub nick Eli Holstein from Pittsburgh is another one
that I like a lot. He kind of gives me

(01:01:10):
young Sam Darnold vibes with the mobility, with the arm, talent,
the highs and the lows with his game, but definitely
has a pretty good foundation as it stands, so a
lot of talent to sift through. I think this class
will definitely have more volume in the early rounds than
this previous one did. We just have to see how
they progress.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
I will say, I think a lot of people would
name you miss, and I think for good reason is
people are trying to do the whole Garrett and ugh
Smeyer is gonna be the next show Burrow a year
or two as a starter, and I'm just gonna be
I'll be the guy to say it. No, no, no,
not not a chance. I will say, watch that guy

(01:01:48):
get beat up too many times.

Speaker 7 (01:01:50):
So I will say, to be like a devil's advocate.
I've seen the because a few draft guys do like
him a lot. And I've seen the really high end
comp being like Tony Romo and if you want to
if you want to bring up Romo was a not
very physically talented guy who was gritty, who you know,
had pretty good creation ability, savviness, even though he's not
an elite athlete, you know, enough anticipation, kind of a

(01:02:12):
gunslinger who's one to take risks. I could see that
with nus Meyer, right. I just the physical talent is
going to be a little limiting because I think his
arm is definitely more elastic than strong. And he's not
an elite physical talent when it comes to size and
athleticism either. So you know, some of the risk taking
taking propensities, some of the you know, the willingness to
take sacks or hits in the pocket. You don't have

(01:02:32):
to tone that down, but some talent, that's the thing.
Talent is a separating factor for a lot of guys.
And you put nuss Meyer in the same conversation as
Sellers and club Nick and Aler and Manning and you know,
Mendoza Polstein. Uh, he's going to get drowned out pretty quickly.
So I think the margin the margin for error is
smaller for him. But high end best case scenario if

(01:02:54):
he can become Tony Romo, Like I do think the
physical profile similar.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Enough that he can become Tony watching.

Speaker 8 (01:03:01):
But you know, I'm a little more skeptical. So we'll see,
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
The draft forwards in two thousand and four are shaking
at what you're saying. They're saying Tony Romo, Eastern Illinois,
No way, Yeah, all right, Ian.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
It is always a pleasure when we get to have
you on. It is officially a little bit of the
off season time for you, so we hope you get
some rests, enjoy your vacation, and we'll talk to you
more in the next draft cycle.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
Yes, sir, and real quick, because I know you were
going to ask about the best classes. I saw you
starting to ask it, so real quick, rapid fire. I
really liked the usual culprits, the Chiefs, the Ravens, the Eagles.
I think they all got incredible value. Jalen Royal Is
the Chiefs in round four, the Eagles getting Andrew mccooba
in round two, Ajaha Campbell at the end of round one,
and then the Ravens getting Mike Green in round two,

(01:03:50):
and then Malchi Starks was a top ten player for me.
So like that one a lot. The Patriots and the
Seahawks are two more that i'll throw out there. Really
liked what they did. The Patriots getting Braydon Swinson getting
you know, Kyle Williams a lot of value there. And
I could go down the line. There were so many
classes that that stood out to me. I think you
know that. And I'll shout the Steelers here because Payton's
here getting Derek Harmon.

Speaker 8 (01:04:10):
I really liked that pick.

Speaker 7 (01:04:11):
If you can stay healthy, I think he's a monster
on the defensive line next to Keanu Bent and we'll see.
But a big fan of that one too. So overall
it was a very fun twenty twenty five thenful draft cycle. Uh,
even more excited for the next one because of all
the time and flexibility that we now have to really
put the best work in. So I'll definitely have to takeification,
have to get some more sleep, but excited to and

(01:04:32):
I'm excited when I'll get to talk with you guys
about it down the line again because I know we're
gonna have plenty to discuss with this coming group, so
it'll be fun. But appreciate you guys have me on
as always. Appreciate you taking taking the time. And yeah,
I've been talking so much this cycle. Man, Sometimes I
forget and I just start rambling and then they so
how you gon We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Yeah, the rambles are so they're so eloquent. They're just
very well like it feels like you have a teleprompter
somewhere in front of you at points, but I mean
it's just off and down. It's impressive. I just gotta
say I appreciate it, all.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Right, and take care, buddy. We will talk to you
again very soon. All right, we'll be back.