November 5, 2019 • 31 mins
November is National Adoption Month! To dive deeper into the experience of adopted queerspawn of color, guests Weston and Kaley share their stories and advice of both foster care and international adoption. Learn about how they found community, ways they discussed their identities at home, and why their voices are so important in the movement.
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Episode Transcript
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Emily (00:00):
Before we start, just a heads up that there is
prevention of suicide in thisepisode right around minute 3:20
to 3:30 and again at 14:30 toabout 14:40 you can skip ahead
at those times and miss anyreference.
Here's the episode.
(00:35):
November is National AdoptionMonth.
Joining me today to share theirpersonal journeys and to really
have this episode move deeperinto conversation about adoption
and foster care are two adoptedqueerspawn Weston and Kaley.
(01:49):
I'm going to get us started withthe question that starts off
every episode- who is in yourfamily and how was it formed?
Kaley (02:12):
Thank you so much.
It's interesting.
I always think of my familystory as having multiple parts.
The first part is definitely howmy two moms met.
So I have two lesbian moms,their names are Cathy and
Joanne, and they're wonderful.
They met in a very stereotypicallesbian way.
They met on the softball field.
And a little while after that, Iwas adopted.
(02:34):
So like you mentioned Emily, Iwas adopted from Lima, Peru when
I was six months old.
They started their family thatway.
And then three years later theyadopted my younger brother at
eight-months-old from Guatemala.
So that's the meat of my story.
And now I've continued that.
So recently I married my longtime best friend and partner Sam
(02:55):
and she's actually anotherperson who has a bisexual m om.
So she's in the community.
And just to define it in casefolks don't know, queerspawn and
COLAGE(I'll use thosesynonymously) that just means
it's an identity term that somepeople have and they've taken on
to identify their specificplacement in the families.
(03:16):
It's a term that means someonewho has or had one or more
LGBTQ+ parent or caregiver.
So she i s also a COLAGEr.
So currently I have three queerparents technically in my life
and then a slew of queer auntieswho also love and care for me
and they've cared for me and myfamily, especially after the
(03:37):
recent passing o f my brother,Joseph.
So coming up on November 5th, we'll be four years, since he
died by suicide.
So he's still a part of myfamily.
We honor and cherish him.
My family has many differentparts, s o many different
layers.
Weston (03:57):
My family consists of my two dads and my six adopted
siblings...16 years I was in aresidential facility, in a very
rural community and trying tofind an affirming placement.
And so he found one with his twobest friends.
I was supposed to be placed withthem and they were in the
process of moving.
(04:17):
So I was with my dads now asopposed to just only be with
them for like two weeks or so.
And the transition of moving inwith the lesbian couple that I
was supposed to be placed with.
And then I went for a weekendvisit and realized that this is
where I really was meant to be.
I mean, I fit in so well.
Through my journey and being infoster care, I never found such
(04:39):
a connection with the familywhere I felt like I was
biologically their own.
And so it's very interestingthat my dad worked for an agency
that kind of led me to be hisson.
Emily (04:51):
That's great.
I love that.
This is a question for both ofyou that I love to ask folks,
what are some of your favoritethings to do as a family?
Kaley (05:02):
And I love that question, Emily.
I think for our family, we havesome pretty unique family
traditions.
So one of our traditions is forpeople's birthday we make
muffins as the first thing.
The tradition is that you'resupposed to wake up to muffins
and a candle.
And then another familytradition we have is every
Tuesday(thankfully I live closeto my family) we have taco
(05:25):
Tuesday, so we meet up at arestaurant and we all have
dinner together, but i consistsof my family and then also my
queer aunties, which iswonderful.
So we all meet once a week andjust check in and see how
everyone's doing and, and updateeach other.
Another favorite familytradition, that started about
eight years ago is Family Week.
So that is actually where I metmy current spouse.
(05:47):
Family Week, hands down is, incase you don't know, it's the
largest annual gathering ofLGBTQ+ families in the world.
It is a wonderful week and Iplanned my whole year around it.
Thankfully I work for COLAGE andnow it really is my job to do
that.
But before that it was atradition that we did every
single year.
My parents were actually able tojoin me one year, which was
(06:08):
wonderful, but I joined as anadult and it's just been life
changing of gathering of otheradult and also youth queerspawn.
It's about 2000 of us.
So it's just phenomenal.
Weston (06:25):
Yes.
So it was really cool, when Iwas placed with my dads, they
read my file, and we reallyconnected through cheerleading.
One of my dads was a cheerleaderat Penn State, where I also go
and I also used to cheer here aswell.
I don't know if I would say Inecessarily led my dad back into
the cheer world, since he wasout of it for so long.
But with me expressing such apassion for cheerleading, he
(06:46):
decided to go back in the cheerindustry and actually opened up
his own gym.
And so I have six siblings andwe all were also on different
cheer teams, on different agelevels.
Cheerleading has really unitedour family with my dad owning a
cheerleading gym.
That's my dad's craft andsomething he's so passionate
about and it's really cool thatwe are all able to have the same
(07:07):
skills and the same mindset tobe a part of that passion that
he has had for himself.
Emily (07:12):
That's a very talented family.
That's really cool.
So you both have two verydifferent adoption stories.
Is there more aboutinternational private adoption
or foster care and adoption thatyou'd like to share?
Just a big open question.
Weston (07:30):
Yes.
So for me identifying as LGBTQwithin the foster care system, I
found that placements lack theknowledge or the understanding
on how to care for or to provideany kinds of resources or any
kind of understanding forsomeone who identified as LGBTQ
and as well as someone who was aperson of color.
(07:50):
And so I had a hard timenavigating who to reach out to
and ways to get the sense ofresources and to understand
myself as I was going into thisjourney of discovering who I
was.
As well as just not being ableto find affirming or accepting
placements and identifying asLGBTQ.
(08:18):
I think at times they fearedthat I would change the
different children in the hometo become gay or a sense of this
whole like predatorial aspect aswell.
And so they really feared me, Ibelieve in, although I was also
black as well or I identify asbiracial.
So I think that was anotherfactor that dampered in me
(08:39):
finding a placement.
Kaley (08:41):
Wow.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Yeah, Emily, you are verycorrect.
We have very different adoptionstories and I think for me, I
was adopted as a babyinternationally.
Tony Hynes is doing some greatwork and in a recent podcast
that he helped moderate, he saidsomething that I really, really
love and that helped expand myunderstanding in talking to
(09:04):
other adoptees too- the ideathat ethical adoption is an
option.
So thinking about when folks areprospective parents looking for
an adoption agency, reallyfinding one that, number one
supports them as a queer coupleor a queer family or queer
person.
I know that was a struggle formy family and trying to adopt
(09:24):
me.
They were denied at the homestudy because my mom had a quote
unquote roommate and they couldsee right through that.
And so she really had to fightto work with that adoption
agency to even adopt in thefirst place.
But finding an adoption agencythat also really supports the
birth family and the birthmother as much as the adoptive
family.
(09:45):
I think that recent podcastepisode with Tony, that was just
wonderful and great to hearbecause I've heard a lot of
stories from other adoptees,especially international
adoptees where there's little tono information about the birth
family, the birth mother, andthere's questionable ethics with
that of did they actually knowwhat was happening?
Do they know the outcome?
Did they choose that as anoption?
(10:05):
So even having a choice in thematter I think is really
important as opposed to havingan agency that just caters to
the prospective or adoptiveparent or parents.
I think that is something thatis really important to me as I
move forward in these adoptioncircles and in the advocacy
work.
Emily (10:21):
Yeah.
Thank you both.
Well Kaley, you actually alludedto this, so maybe you could
expand a little bit more.
You talked about Family Week asone space that you access with
LGBTQ families.
But have you both engaged inspaces for other adopted people
or adopted queer spawn inparticular?
(10:42):
Why are those spaces importantto you?
Kaley (10:45):
That has been another of the most life changing things
for me.
I think personally when I firstwent to Family Qeek, I was an
adult.
I was just starting college.
But really I was able to go intoa space where there were other
adult adoptees that wereinternationally adopted and were
growing up in white queerfamilies, which is so finite and
(11:07):
so unique.
And that was just wonderful.
And that space completelychanged my life.
And so one thing at Family Weekand COLAGE, the organization,
something that we do is wecreate what we call lunch chats
or now we call them afternoondiscussions.
And it really is just a group, asafe space to talk about our
experiences.
And one of the ones that I loveand get so much love and pour so
(11:27):
much love into is the one foradoptees.
There's also another one that Ilove, which is for queerspawn of
color, but the adopted lunchchat has really just changed my
world and that is a great placethat I've found support and
really, bring my whole self.
But not only that, but I get tobe the leader that I always
(11:47):
wished I had when I was younger.
I never had an older queerspawnof color I could look up to you,
especially a genderqueer one andsay, wow, like that person made
it.
That person is in the world asan adult, that's somebody that's
doing great things.
I want to be like that.
I never had that and I just wantto be able to be a positive
influence in the youngergenerations that are still
navigating their own identityand their own adoption story and
(12:10):
history.
Weston (12:11):
I was a part of an organization called Youth Speak
Out.
It was a group of foster careyouth who were sharing their
stories.
So it kind of really started tome as a sense of a support group
where we shared our stories, ourexperiences, and really thought
about how we wanted to changeand frame the foster care system
based on what we went through.
(12:31):
There were a couple of people inthis organization that were
adopted and other ones and otherindividuals who are really
looking for their foreverfamily.
And I really believe that thisorganization was so empowering
just to be able to get a groupof different people into the
same space and being able toshare their stories and feeding
off of how we can change thecourse of such a broken foster
(12:52):
care system.
So I really think that that wassomething that I really was able
to engage in and being able tobe a part of something where I
was able to highlight myexperiences and being able to
really change something.
That was very important to me.
Emily (13:07):
So, Kaley, you had mentioned Tony Hynes.
Actually I have a questionrelated to Tony, who is pure
excellence.
Tony Hynes is an author andactivist and a queerspawn, who
recently published this reallyexcellent article just this past
September called"Why weshouldn't call adoptees'lucky'".
(13:28):
And I just wanna read one quickquote from that because it
really I think is a verypowerful one.
And so he writes,"When weinsinuate that an adoptee is
lucky, we often invalidate theunique challenges they continue
to experience after beingadopted and paint adoptive
parents as saviors when in factthey are simply parents, good
(13:51):
and bad and wonderful and flawedas any parent can be.
When we point to adoptees aslucky, we may also fail to look
for ways to change systems thatcontribute to the trauma
inducing situations too manychildren and families
experience." I just wanted toread that because I w ant t o
just t o open up space for yourthoughts, your reactions.
(14:13):
Does that resonate with you?
Weston (14:16):
Yeah.
So for me, in a way I both agreeand I disagree with this.
I believe that every individualwho enters the foster care
system deserves a loving,accepting, affirming family
where they can just feel loved,be loved, and just live their
authentic life and being able tojust be themselves.
(14:39):
And on the flip side, I reallybelieve that for me through my
experiences and with my two dadsand my family, that ultimately I
believe that my two dads reallysaved my life.
Because before I was placed withthem, I was in a residential
facility and ultimately I was onthe cusp of wanting to end my
life and just thinking about howI didn't want to be living a
(15:02):
life that I felt was someaningless, with not having a
sense of any direction, noloving family, feeling alone and
in an emergency shelter.
So the fact that I was adoptedby my two dads really ultimately
saved my life in a way that theywere able to give me things that
I knew I would not have beengiven.
And so for that I'm more thanlucky, more than appreciative.
(15:25):
And ultimately they've given mea different aspect on what it's
like to be a gay, biracialgender fluid person in
ultimately a white America.
Kaley (15:34):
I love that Weston.
Thank you so much for sharing.
And I think for me, the articleby Tony couldn't have come out
at a more perfect time.
Actually a few days before thearticle came out, I was recently
at my parents' church and I'dgrown up there.
Back in the day they could go tothe airport and the actual
(15:56):
terminal and stand at the gateand welcome people as they came
back.
And so a lot of those folks werethere when I came to America and
one of those folks said, Oh,it's so good to see you.
And, for some reason, felt theneed to talk about, how I've
come so far and how neglected Iwas when they first saw me and
how lucky I am to have myfamily.
(16:17):
And that kind of just struck me.
And then it sat with me for abit and then that article from
Tony came out and I was like,wow, perfect timing.
Cause even in my own life I'veexperienced this and heard
people say, Oh, how lucky youare, that lucky narrative.
And I just had to stop and say,wow, you know, there's so many
nuances to my experience.
Yes, I love my family and yes,like every other family we have
(16:41):
our struggles, especially withlosing Joseph.
And you know, luckily for usthat brought us closer together.
And luckily I have some greatparents but also it hasn't
always been easy.
Being a person of color in awhite family has definitely had
its own trials and tribulationsand I'm thankful for my family,
yes.
But also there are so manynuances and so many
(17:02):
intersections that I had to findon my own for my own identity
that my moms aren't able tosupport with and they're still
learning and they're stillchanging.
And I am so thankful for them.
But I think in this thought ofsomeone saying how lucky you
are, I really appreciated mytraining through COLAGE and
through other folks just saying,wow, this person doesn't really
(17:25):
have that much of a clue of likewhat all the nuances of my life.
But you know what?
This could be a moment when Iget help that person understand
more or I don't have to, I don'talways have to share my story.
And I think that choice is soimportant for young folks and
for adoptees to to think aboutand to know that we have agency
(17:46):
to understand when and where wetell our story.
And that we don't have to alwaystell our story to people even if
they make false assumptions ofus or true assumptions of us.
Really that choice and agency isup to us.
And I'm thankful that COLAGEhelped me understand that I do
have a choice to share my story.
And so when I hear that, Oh,you're so lucky, I also hear in
(18:09):
that so much misunderstandingsthat people have.
And I'm proud that I have achoice to really combat that i f
I have the energy or not.
Just leave it alone and say,okay, thank you.
It's great to see you too, whichis what I did in that moment and
I didn't have to really go intoit with this person.
I c ould really just share, youknow.
Thank you.
I hear, you know, in between allof this I'm searching for the
(18:32):
golden nuggets i n that and theg old nugget is that y ou're
glad to see me today and I canpull from that and not have to
share what the nuances i n mylife and how hard it has also
been being an adoptee.
So I'm thankful for the choiceand I'm thankful for folks that
care and I'm very appreciativeof Tony a nd Tony's work around
(18:53):
shifting that narrative awayfrom thinking a doptees a re
lucky always and should begrateful.
Emily (18:59):
Yeah.
One thing that really stuck outto me in the quote was as Tony
writes,"...by using that sort ofterminology, we paint adoptive
parents as saviors when in factthey're simply parents good and
bad and wonderful and flawed isany parent can be".
Within queerspawn spaces andincreasingly outside of them,
we're having open conversationsabout this idea of a poster
(19:22):
child syndrome, this feelingthat all people with LGBTQ
parents must be representing allof our families and all LGBTQ
people.
And so there is that posterchild feeling.
You want to be painting yourfamily as perfect and wonderful
all the time.
And I would really love yourthoughts on how some of that
(19:45):
poster child pressure was aunique experience for you as
adoptees within interracialfamilies, as people of color,
and as genderqueer and gendernon-binary identifying people as
well.
Kaley, would you start us, causeI know this is something that is
a familiar term for you.
Kaley (20:04):
'Poster child' is part of our living language for our
community.
The Queerspawn Resource Projecthas done a great job of
outlining some of those piecesand definitions.
So if folks are interested inlearning more, feel free to
check out the QueerspawnResource Project.
But yes, poster child syndrome,I can't tell you how many
interviews or workshops or evenTV shows I've been a part of
(20:29):
where people, who are not a partof the community even outside of
COLAGE, ask me, can you speakfor all adoptees, all youth in
LGBTQ families.
Like what is the experience?
As if there's only oneexperience.
And that has been something thatI have done a lot of work to
make sure that other youth knowthat they have a choice in
(20:51):
hearing our story o r notsharing our story, how and when
we should share our story.
But also recognizing that as acommunity we're intersectional.
Our identities are multilayered.
Our families and stories aremultilayered and our families
aren't always perfect.
We don't always have to conformto this cookie cutter story or
idea of who we are.
(21:12):
Although it can be very scaryand very real for some folks
that you have to do that.
But the idea that you have achoice of when and where you do
that is important.
I know growing up for me therewas always this concern in the
back of my mind, my parentsweren't legally married or
legally together.
They had to jump through somehoops to make sure in case one
(21:32):
of my parents, in case somethinghappened to my primary
caregiver, making sure that myother mom would have legal
custody of me.
And I remember as a child havingthat at the forefront of my
mind, the reality that at timesI had to think about that and I
had to share my story that wewere perfect.
(21:52):
Oh yes, my family is wonderfulbecause of that fear of being
separated from them or the fearof being taken away from my moms
.
That is something that I had tonavigate and I had to code
switch with my brother too.
Like when we were out and about,sometimes we'd say mom instead
of moms, but we would know thatwe were thinking and saying moms
at the same time.
So we would use coded languagewith each other to talk about
(22:15):
our family.
And try to protect each other.
But there was this expectation,especially because I was the
only person at my school that Iknow of that had a queer parent
at times, especially inelementary school.
And there were many places whereI was the only one.
And so when I had to speak aboutmy family, it definitely felt
like I had to stand up and dolike a princess wave and say,
(22:39):
yes, my family is wonderful andwe're perfect and we're just
like you.
And I think the beauty ofshifting that narrative is
saying our families arewonderful and complicated and
layered and multi-dimensionaland just like other families.
We have our things, but whatmakes us wonderful.
Our difference actually is ourstrength.
(23:00):
People should be celebrated fortheir differences.
Not in spite of, but because of.
Weston (23:06):
So I would like to add that at the end of the day,
understanding that no one cancontrol your identity and being
able to hone in that your truthis your truth.
And at the end of the day noone's perfect, but we're living
our lives the best that we can,as authentically as we can as
well.
Emily (23:23):
Totally.
So you've, you've each talked alittle bit about this, but you
know, statistically we know thatmany LGBTQ plus people are
fostering and adopting youth ofa different ethnicity than
themselves.
How have you navigated youridentity, found community and
even discussed identity as afamily?
Kaley (23:47):
Weston, I'd love to hear from you too about this, cause I
think it relates to the posterchild as well.
But I think for me there are twofacets of this with our
intersectional identities.
For me it's been not only justdiscovering and celebrating and
understanding my own race andethnicity, but also my own
sexuality and my own genderidentity as well.
(24:10):
The identities are layered andintertwined.
And in my discovery of it, andfor me specifically around race
with my family, my moms arewhite.
It really wasn't until COLAGEthat I was able to meet other
queerspawn of color with whitelesbian moms or even just white
parents and really understandingand coming to terms with our own
(24:31):
racial identity and our owncultures and connecting and
celebrating even our uniqueculture of being in that
multiracial family.
But I think there are manydifferent experiences.
There's the experience of beinga person of color in the United
States, an experience of being aperson of color in the U S with
a queer parent.
And then on top of that, being aperson of color in the United
(24:53):
States with white, queer parents, and thanks to COLAGE and
community, I was able to connectwith more folks that have that
experience.
And I think discovering myidentity is a lifelong process
and I'm thankful I have supportfrom people who really get it,
who are in that with me.
And walking that with me.
And I'd say the same thing formy own gender identity and
sexual identity.
It's something that is everchanging and ever-growing and my
(25:16):
moms are doing a great job,really supportive.
They understand that they don'talways get it and that there may
need to do their own work tounderstand and support me.
And in the larger community,we've had discussions about this
now that I'm an adult.
When I was growing up they saidthey thought that they only had
the option of raising me in aqueer community or raising me in
(25:40):
a community of people of color.
And they just didn't know thatthose communities could
intersect and co-exist.
Just because of theirinexperience.
And they've really thought aboutthat more.
And we've had a lot ofdiscussions about how things,
they are where they are a nd Ilove my m oms for who they are
and they understand that thereare a lot of things that they
(26:00):
don't get or they c ouldn'tnever have gotten.
And we've really worked to tobuild more anti-racist pieces
into our lives and into our workto support each other and our
larger community.
Weston (26:11):
So for a very long time I've really struggled with
myself and loving the person Iam and being able to embrace
myself as authentically as Ipossibly could and just how I
wanted to present myself to theworld.
And so being adopted by my twodads, one of my dads actually is
biracial himself.
And when I was first place withhim, I would say I mixed or we
(26:32):
kind of talked about race alittle bit and he was one, he
was a person that really helpedme understand that being mixed
wasn't necessarily the rightterminology to use, but being
able to talk about beingbiracial and understanding that
I'm not just black and I'm notjust white and I'm not just gay,
that there's a difference.
We understand and being able toidentify and being able to
really hone in and embrace beinga gay, biracial man.
Emily (26:57):
Yeah.
November is National AdoptionMonth.
So any final thoughts to wrap upthe episode?
Anything that you wanted toshare that I didn't get to ask
you about yet?
Kaley (27:09):
I think one thing that I've recently in a panel posed
to the audience and to otherqueerspawn, especially adoptees,
to help further push for changeand advocacy is, think about who
right now in the mediarepresents youth and LGBTQ
families or even adult childrenand LGBTQ+ families.
(27:32):
And what do those folks looklike and who is missing from
that?
We don't really have a lot ofpeople to look up to, not a lot
of mentors in the media orlarger.
I know Zach Wahls is out theredoing some great work.
We also have some other folkslike Tony Hynes, which I'm so
thankful for, but I'd love tohelp elevate those stories and
really help think about who arewe making space for and who is
(27:54):
falling through the cracks.
You know, a lot of times youthare spoken for or about, and not
always given the agency to sharetheir own stories.
So just thinking around,especially with adoptees, that
we can share and speak their ownstories.
But also look for moreintersectional stories and more
intersectional people.
Exactly like you're doing Emily.
And thank you so much forallowing myself and Weston to
(28:16):
share our stories cause I thinkthere are so many wonderful
stories to share and alsoimportant stories to listen to.
Not just always positive storiesbut just the whole gamut.
Listen to youth, listen toadoptees and if there is ever a
time when people are makingdecisions for us, make sure that
we're involved in that.
We're involved at every step ofthe way and just take a step
(28:39):
back and recognize that if youdon't have that identity, if you
don't have that experience, justtake that pause and get feedback
from the community.
I think there are many differentinstances when I've seen a lot
of adoptees spoken for and I'dlove for that narrative to
change.
Weston (29:00):
Yes, of course.
I just really want to say like alot of individuals in the foster
care system are so scared tospeak their truth and the fear
of what's to come.
And ultimately we thrive off ofthe truth and we thrive off of
these experiences to only beable to empower and educate and
just being able to uplifteveryone else.
(29:21):
And I think that that's soimportant that people who do
identify as LGBTQ or identify asbeing biracial or gender fluid,
I feel like they are not asrepresented as they should be.
And so that's what I reallywanted to do is kind of share my
voice and being able to speakout for individuals who feel
like they're not alwaysrepresented in a space where
(29:44):
they should be.
Before we start, just a heads up that there is
prevention of suicide in thisepisode right around minute 3:20
to 3:30 and again at 14:30 toabout 14:40 you can skip ahead
at those times and miss anyreference.
Here's the episode.
(00:35):
November is National AdoptionMonth.
Joining me today to share theirpersonal journeys and to really
have this episode move deeperinto conversation about adoption
and foster care are two adoptedqueerspawn Weston and Kaley.
(01:49):
I'm going to get us started withthe question that starts off
every episode- who is in yourfamily and how was it formed?
Kaley (02:12):
Thank you so much.
It's interesting.
I always think of my familystory as having multiple parts.
The first part is definitely howmy two moms met.
So I have two lesbian moms,their names are Cathy and
Joanne, and they're wonderful.
They met in a very stereotypicallesbian way.
They met on the softball field.
And a little while after that, Iwas adopted.
(02:34):
So like you mentioned Emily, Iwas adopted from Lima, Peru when
I was six months old.
They started their family thatway.
And then three years later theyadopted my younger brother at
eight-months-old from Guatemala.
So that's the meat of my story.
And now I've continued that.
So recently I married my longtime best friend and partner Sam
(02:55):
and she's actually anotherperson who has a bisexual m om.
So she's in the community.
And just to define it in casefolks don't know, queerspawn and
COLAGE(I'll use thosesynonymously) that just means
it's an identity term that somepeople have and they've taken on
to identify their specificplacement in the families.
(03:16):
It's a term that means someonewho has or had one or more
LGBTQ+ parent or caregiver.
So she i s also a COLAGEr.
So currently I have three queerparents technically in my life
and then a slew of queer auntieswho also love and care for me
and they've cared for me and myfamily, especially after the
(03:37):
recent passing o f my brother,Joseph.
So coming up on November 5th, we'll be four years, since he
died by suicide.
So he's still a part of myfamily.
We honor and cherish him.
My family has many differentparts, s o many different
layers.
Weston (03:57):
My family consists of my two dads and my six adopted
siblings...16 years I was in aresidential facility, in a very
rural community and trying tofind an affirming placement.
And so he found one with his twobest friends.
I was supposed to be placed withthem and they were in the
process of moving.
(04:17):
So I was with my dads now asopposed to just only be with
them for like two weeks or so.
And the transition of moving inwith the lesbian couple that I
was supposed to be placed with.
And then I went for a weekendvisit and realized that this is
where I really was meant to be.
I mean, I fit in so well.
Through my journey and being infoster care, I never found such
(04:39):
a connection with the familywhere I felt like I was
biologically their own.
And so it's very interestingthat my dad worked for an agency
that kind of led me to be hisson.
Emily (04:51):
That's great.
I love that.
This is a question for both ofyou that I love to ask folks,
what are some of your favoritethings to do as a family?
Kaley (05:02):
And I love that question, Emily.
I think for our family, we havesome pretty unique family
traditions.
So one of our traditions is forpeople's birthday we make
muffins as the first thing.
The tradition is that you'resupposed to wake up to muffins
and a candle.
And then another familytradition we have is every
Tuesday(thankfully I live closeto my family) we have taco
(05:25):
Tuesday, so we meet up at arestaurant and we all have
dinner together, but i consistsof my family and then also my
queer aunties, which iswonderful.
So we all meet once a week andjust check in and see how
everyone's doing and, and updateeach other.
Another favorite familytradition, that started about
eight years ago is Family Week.
So that is actually where I metmy current spouse.
(05:47):
Family Week, hands down is, incase you don't know, it's the
largest annual gathering ofLGBTQ+ families in the world.
It is a wonderful week and Iplanned my whole year around it.
Thankfully I work for COLAGE andnow it really is my job to do
that.
But before that it was atradition that we did every
single year.
My parents were actually able tojoin me one year, which was
(06:08):
wonderful, but I joined as anadult and it's just been life
changing of gathering of otheradult and also youth queerspawn.
It's about 2000 of us.
So it's just phenomenal.
Weston (06:25):
Yes.
So it was really cool, when Iwas placed with my dads, they
read my file, and we reallyconnected through cheerleading.
One of my dads was a cheerleaderat Penn State, where I also go
and I also used to cheer here aswell.
I don't know if I would say Inecessarily led my dad back into
the cheer world, since he wasout of it for so long.
But with me expressing such apassion for cheerleading, he
(06:46):
decided to go back in the cheerindustry and actually opened up
his own gym.
And so I have six siblings andwe all were also on different
cheer teams, on different agelevels.
Cheerleading has really unitedour family with my dad owning a
cheerleading gym.
That's my dad's craft andsomething he's so passionate
about and it's really cool thatwe are all able to have the same
(07:07):
skills and the same mindset tobe a part of that passion that
he has had for himself.
Emily (07:12):
That's a very talented family.
That's really cool.
So you both have two verydifferent adoption stories.
Is there more aboutinternational private adoption
or foster care and adoption thatyou'd like to share?
Just a big open question.
Weston (07:30):
Yes.
So for me identifying as LGBTQwithin the foster care system, I
found that placements lack theknowledge or the understanding
on how to care for or to provideany kinds of resources or any
kind of understanding forsomeone who identified as LGBTQ
and as well as someone who was aperson of color.
(07:50):
And so I had a hard timenavigating who to reach out to
and ways to get the sense ofresources and to understand
myself as I was going into thisjourney of discovering who I
was.
As well as just not being ableto find affirming or accepting
placements and identifying asLGBTQ.
(08:18):
I think at times they fearedthat I would change the
different children in the hometo become gay or a sense of this
whole like predatorial aspect aswell.
And so they really feared me, Ibelieve in, although I was also
black as well or I identify asbiracial.
So I think that was anotherfactor that dampered in me
(08:39):
finding a placement.
Kaley (08:41):
Wow.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Yeah, Emily, you are verycorrect.
We have very different adoptionstories and I think for me, I
was adopted as a babyinternationally.
Tony Hynes is doing some greatwork and in a recent podcast
that he helped moderate, he saidsomething that I really, really
love and that helped expand myunderstanding in talking to
(09:04):
other adoptees too- the ideathat ethical adoption is an
option.
So thinking about when folks areprospective parents looking for
an adoption agency, reallyfinding one that, number one
supports them as a queer coupleor a queer family or queer
person.
I know that was a struggle formy family and trying to adopt
(09:24):
me.
They were denied at the homestudy because my mom had a quote
unquote roommate and they couldsee right through that.
And so she really had to fightto work with that adoption
agency to even adopt in thefirst place.
But finding an adoption agencythat also really supports the
birth family and the birthmother as much as the adoptive
family.
(09:45):
I think that recent podcastepisode with Tony, that was just
wonderful and great to hearbecause I've heard a lot of
stories from other adoptees,especially international
adoptees where there's little tono information about the birth
family, the birth mother, andthere's questionable ethics with
that of did they actually knowwhat was happening?
Do they know the outcome?
Did they choose that as anoption?
(10:05):
So even having a choice in thematter I think is really
important as opposed to havingan agency that just caters to
the prospective or adoptiveparent or parents.
I think that is something thatis really important to me as I
move forward in these adoptioncircles and in the advocacy
work.
Emily (10:21):
Yeah.
Thank you both.
Well Kaley, you actually alludedto this, so maybe you could
expand a little bit more.
You talked about Family Week asone space that you access with
LGBTQ families.
But have you both engaged inspaces for other adopted people
or adopted queer spawn inparticular?
(10:42):
Why are those spaces importantto you?
Kaley (10:45):
That has been another of the most life changing things
for me.
I think personally when I firstwent to Family Qeek, I was an
adult.
I was just starting college.
But really I was able to go intoa space where there were other
adult adoptees that wereinternationally adopted and were
growing up in white queerfamilies, which is so finite and
(11:07):
so unique.
And that was just wonderful.
And that space completelychanged my life.
And so one thing at Family Weekand COLAGE, the organization,
something that we do is wecreate what we call lunch chats
or now we call them afternoondiscussions.
And it really is just a group, asafe space to talk about our
experiences.
And one of the ones that I loveand get so much love and pour so
(11:27):
much love into is the one foradoptees.
There's also another one that Ilove, which is for queerspawn of
color, but the adopted lunchchat has really just changed my
world and that is a great placethat I've found support and
really, bring my whole self.
But not only that, but I get tobe the leader that I always
(11:47):
wished I had when I was younger.
I never had an older queerspawnof color I could look up to you,
especially a genderqueer one andsay, wow, like that person made
it.
That person is in the world asan adult, that's somebody that's
doing great things.
I want to be like that.
I never had that and I just wantto be able to be a positive
influence in the youngergenerations that are still
navigating their own identityand their own adoption story and
(12:10):
history.
Weston (12:11):
I was a part of an organization called Youth Speak
Out.
It was a group of foster careyouth who were sharing their
stories.
So it kind of really started tome as a sense of a support group
where we shared our stories, ourexperiences, and really thought
about how we wanted to changeand frame the foster care system
based on what we went through.
(12:31):
There were a couple of people inthis organization that were
adopted and other ones and otherindividuals who are really
looking for their foreverfamily.
And I really believe that thisorganization was so empowering
just to be able to get a groupof different people into the
same space and being able toshare their stories and feeding
off of how we can change thecourse of such a broken foster
(12:52):
care system.
So I really think that that wassomething that I really was able
to engage in and being able tobe a part of something where I
was able to highlight myexperiences and being able to
really change something.
That was very important to me.
Emily (13:07):
So, Kaley, you had mentioned Tony Hynes.
Actually I have a questionrelated to Tony, who is pure
excellence.
Tony Hynes is an author andactivist and a queerspawn, who
recently published this reallyexcellent article just this past
September called"Why weshouldn't call adoptees'lucky'".
(13:28):
And I just wanna read one quickquote from that because it
really I think is a verypowerful one.
And so he writes,"When weinsinuate that an adoptee is
lucky, we often invalidate theunique challenges they continue
to experience after beingadopted and paint adoptive
parents as saviors when in factthey are simply parents, good
(13:51):
and bad and wonderful and flawedas any parent can be.
When we point to adoptees aslucky, we may also fail to look
for ways to change systems thatcontribute to the trauma
inducing situations too manychildren and families
experience." I just wanted toread that because I w ant t o
just t o open up space for yourthoughts, your reactions.
(14:13):
Does that resonate with you?
Weston (14:16):
Yeah.
So for me, in a way I both agreeand I disagree with this.
I believe that every individualwho enters the foster care
system deserves a loving,accepting, affirming family
where they can just feel loved,be loved, and just live their
authentic life and being able tojust be themselves.
(14:39):
And on the flip side, I reallybelieve that for me through my
experiences and with my two dadsand my family, that ultimately I
believe that my two dads reallysaved my life.
Because before I was placed withthem, I was in a residential
facility and ultimately I was onthe cusp of wanting to end my
life and just thinking about howI didn't want to be living a
(15:02):
life that I felt was someaningless, with not having a
sense of any direction, noloving family, feeling alone and
in an emergency shelter.
So the fact that I was adoptedby my two dads really ultimately
saved my life in a way that theywere able to give me things that
I knew I would not have beengiven.
And so for that I'm more thanlucky, more than appreciative.
(15:25):
And ultimately they've given mea different aspect on what it's
like to be a gay, biracialgender fluid person in
ultimately a white America.
Kaley (15:34):
I love that Weston.
Thank you so much for sharing.
And I think for me, the articleby Tony couldn't have come out
at a more perfect time.
Actually a few days before thearticle came out, I was recently
at my parents' church and I'dgrown up there.
Back in the day they could go tothe airport and the actual
(15:56):
terminal and stand at the gateand welcome people as they came
back.
And so a lot of those folks werethere when I came to America and
one of those folks said, Oh,it's so good to see you.
And, for some reason, felt theneed to talk about, how I've
come so far and how neglected Iwas when they first saw me and
how lucky I am to have myfamily.
(16:17):
And that kind of just struck me.
And then it sat with me for abit and then that article from
Tony came out and I was like,wow, perfect timing.
Cause even in my own life I'veexperienced this and heard
people say, Oh, how lucky youare, that lucky narrative.
And I just had to stop and say,wow, you know, there's so many
nuances to my experience.
Yes, I love my family and yes,like every other family we have
(16:41):
our struggles, especially withlosing Joseph.
And you know, luckily for usthat brought us closer together.
And luckily I have some greatparents but also it hasn't
always been easy.
Being a person of color in awhite family has definitely had
its own trials and tribulationsand I'm thankful for my family,
yes.
But also there are so manynuances and so many
(17:02):
intersections that I had to findon my own for my own identity
that my moms aren't able tosupport with and they're still
learning and they're stillchanging.
And I am so thankful for them.
But I think in this thought ofsomeone saying how lucky you
are, I really appreciated mytraining through COLAGE and
through other folks just saying,wow, this person doesn't really
(17:25):
have that much of a clue of likewhat all the nuances of my life.
But you know what?
This could be a moment when Iget help that person understand
more or I don't have to, I don'talways have to share my story.
And I think that choice is soimportant for young folks and
for adoptees to to think aboutand to know that we have agency
(17:46):
to understand when and where wetell our story.
And that we don't have to alwaystell our story to people even if
they make false assumptions ofus or true assumptions of us.
Really that choice and agency isup to us.
And I'm thankful that COLAGEhelped me understand that I do
have a choice to share my story.
And so when I hear that, Oh,you're so lucky, I also hear in
(18:09):
that so much misunderstandingsthat people have.
And I'm proud that I have achoice to really combat that i f
I have the energy or not.
Just leave it alone and say,okay, thank you.
It's great to see you too, whichis what I did in that moment and
I didn't have to really go intoit with this person.
I c ould really just share, youknow.
Thank you.
I hear, you know, in between allof this I'm searching for the
(18:32):
golden nuggets i n that and theg old nugget is that y ou're
glad to see me today and I canpull from that and not have to
share what the nuances i n mylife and how hard it has also
been being an adoptee.
So I'm thankful for the choiceand I'm thankful for folks that
care and I'm very appreciativeof Tony a nd Tony's work around
(18:53):
shifting that narrative awayfrom thinking a doptees a re
lucky always and should begrateful.
Emily (18:59):
Yeah.
One thing that really stuck outto me in the quote was as Tony
writes,"...by using that sort ofterminology, we paint adoptive
parents as saviors when in factthey're simply parents good and
bad and wonderful and flawed isany parent can be".
Within queerspawn spaces andincreasingly outside of them,
we're having open conversationsabout this idea of a poster
(19:22):
child syndrome, this feelingthat all people with LGBTQ
parents must be representing allof our families and all LGBTQ
people.
And so there is that posterchild feeling.
You want to be painting yourfamily as perfect and wonderful
all the time.
And I would really love yourthoughts on how some of that
(19:45):
poster child pressure was aunique experience for you as
adoptees within interracialfamilies, as people of color,
and as genderqueer and gendernon-binary identifying people as
well.
Kaley, would you start us, causeI know this is something that is
a familiar term for you.
Kaley (20:04):
'Poster child' is part of our living language for our
community.
The Queerspawn Resource Projecthas done a great job of
outlining some of those piecesand definitions.
So if folks are interested inlearning more, feel free to
check out the QueerspawnResource Project.
But yes, poster child syndrome,I can't tell you how many
interviews or workshops or evenTV shows I've been a part of
(20:29):
where people, who are not a partof the community even outside of
COLAGE, ask me, can you speakfor all adoptees, all youth in
LGBTQ families.
Like what is the experience?
As if there's only oneexperience.
And that has been something thatI have done a lot of work to
make sure that other youth knowthat they have a choice in
(20:51):
hearing our story o r notsharing our story, how and when
we should share our story.
But also recognizing that as acommunity we're intersectional.
Our identities are multilayered.
Our families and stories aremultilayered and our families
aren't always perfect.
We don't always have to conformto this cookie cutter story or
idea of who we are.
(21:12):
Although it can be very scaryand very real for some folks
that you have to do that.
But the idea that you have achoice of when and where you do
that is important.
I know growing up for me therewas always this concern in the
back of my mind, my parentsweren't legally married or
legally together.
They had to jump through somehoops to make sure in case one
(21:32):
of my parents, in case somethinghappened to my primary
caregiver, making sure that myother mom would have legal
custody of me.
And I remember as a child havingthat at the forefront of my
mind, the reality that at timesI had to think about that and I
had to share my story that wewere perfect.
(21:52):
Oh yes, my family is wonderfulbecause of that fear of being
separated from them or the fearof being taken away from my moms
.
That is something that I had tonavigate and I had to code
switch with my brother too.
Like when we were out and about,sometimes we'd say mom instead
of moms, but we would know thatwe were thinking and saying moms
at the same time.
So we would use coded languagewith each other to talk about
(22:15):
our family.
And try to protect each other.
But there was this expectation,especially because I was the
only person at my school that Iknow of that had a queer parent
at times, especially inelementary school.
And there were many places whereI was the only one.
And so when I had to speak aboutmy family, it definitely felt
like I had to stand up and dolike a princess wave and say,
(22:39):
yes, my family is wonderful andwe're perfect and we're just
like you.
And I think the beauty ofshifting that narrative is
saying our families arewonderful and complicated and
layered and multi-dimensionaland just like other families.
We have our things, but whatmakes us wonderful.
Our difference actually is ourstrength.
(23:00):
People should be celebrated fortheir differences.
Not in spite of, but because of.
Weston (23:06):
So I would like to add that at the end of the day,
understanding that no one cancontrol your identity and being
able to hone in that your truthis your truth.
And at the end of the day noone's perfect, but we're living
our lives the best that we can,as authentically as we can as
well.
Emily (23:23):
Totally.
So you've, you've each talked alittle bit about this, but you
know, statistically we know thatmany LGBTQ plus people are
fostering and adopting youth ofa different ethnicity than
themselves.
How have you navigated youridentity, found community and
even discussed identity as afamily?
Kaley (23:47):
Weston, I'd love to hear from you too about this, cause I
think it relates to the posterchild as well.
But I think for me there are twofacets of this with our
intersectional identities.
For me it's been not only justdiscovering and celebrating and
understanding my own race andethnicity, but also my own
sexuality and my own genderidentity as well.
(24:10):
The identities are layered andintertwined.
And in my discovery of it, andfor me specifically around race
with my family, my moms arewhite.
It really wasn't until COLAGEthat I was able to meet other
queerspawn of color with whitelesbian moms or even just white
parents and really understandingand coming to terms with our own
(24:31):
racial identity and our owncultures and connecting and
celebrating even our uniqueculture of being in that
multiracial family.
But I think there are manydifferent experiences.
There's the experience of beinga person of color in the United
States, an experience of being aperson of color in the U S with
a queer parent.
And then on top of that, being aperson of color in the United
(24:53):
States with white, queer parents, and thanks to COLAGE and
community, I was able to connectwith more folks that have that
experience.
And I think discovering myidentity is a lifelong process
and I'm thankful I have supportfrom people who really get it,
who are in that with me.
And walking that with me.
And I'd say the same thing formy own gender identity and
sexual identity.
It's something that is everchanging and ever-growing and my
(25:16):
moms are doing a great job,really supportive.
They understand that they don'talways get it and that there may
need to do their own work tounderstand and support me.
And in the larger community,we've had discussions about this
now that I'm an adult.
When I was growing up they saidthey thought that they only had
the option of raising me in aqueer community or raising me in
(25:40):
a community of people of color.
And they just didn't know thatthose communities could
intersect and co-exist.
Just because of theirinexperience.
And they've really thought aboutthat more.
And we've had a lot ofdiscussions about how things,
they are where they are a nd Ilove my m oms for who they are
and they understand that thereare a lot of things that they
(26:00):
don't get or they c ouldn'tnever have gotten.
And we've really worked to tobuild more anti-racist pieces
into our lives and into our workto support each other and our
larger community.
Weston (26:11):
So for a very long time I've really struggled with
myself and loving the person Iam and being able to embrace
myself as authentically as Ipossibly could and just how I
wanted to present myself to theworld.
And so being adopted by my twodads, one of my dads actually is
biracial himself.
And when I was first place withhim, I would say I mixed or we
(26:32):
kind of talked about race alittle bit and he was one, he
was a person that really helpedme understand that being mixed
wasn't necessarily the rightterminology to use, but being
able to talk about beingbiracial and understanding that
I'm not just black and I'm notjust white and I'm not just gay,
that there's a difference.
We understand and being able toidentify and being able to
really hone in and embrace beinga gay, biracial man.
Emily (26:57):
Yeah.
November is National AdoptionMonth.
So any final thoughts to wrap upthe episode?
Anything that you wanted toshare that I didn't get to ask
you about yet?
Kaley (27:09):
I think one thing that I've recently in a panel posed
to the audience and to otherqueerspawn, especially adoptees,
to help further push for changeand advocacy is, think about who
right now in the mediarepresents youth and LGBTQ
families or even adult childrenand LGBTQ+ families.
(27:32):
And what do those folks looklike and who is missing from
that?
We don't really have a lot ofpeople to look up to, not a lot
of mentors in the media orlarger.
I know Zach Wahls is out theredoing some great work.
We also have some other folkslike Tony Hynes, which I'm so
thankful for, but I'd love tohelp elevate those stories and
really help think about who arewe making space for and who is
(27:54):
falling through the cracks.
You know, a lot of times youthare spoken for or about, and not
always given the agency to sharetheir own stories.
So just thinking around,especially with adoptees, that
we can share and speak their ownstories.
But also look for moreintersectional stories and more
intersectional people.
Exactly like you're doing Emily.
And thank you so much forallowing myself and Weston to
(28:16):
share our stories cause I thinkthere are so many wonderful
stories to share and alsoimportant stories to listen to.
Not just always positive storiesbut just the whole gamut.
Listen to youth, listen toadoptees and if there is ever a
time when people are makingdecisions for us, make sure that
we're involved in that.
We're involved at every step ofthe way and just take a step
(28:39):
back and recognize that if youdon't have that identity, if you
don't have that experience, justtake that pause and get feedback
from the community.
I think there are many differentinstances when I've seen a lot
of adoptees spoken for and I'dlove for that narrative to
change.
Weston (29:00):
Yes, of course.
I just really want to say like alot of individuals in the foster
care system are so scared tospeak their truth and the fear
of what's to come.
And ultimately we thrive off ofthe truth and we thrive off of
these experiences to only beable to empower and educate and
just being able to uplifteveryone else.
(29:21):
And I think that that's soimportant that people who do
identify as LGBTQ or identify asbeing biracial or gender fluid,
I feel like they are not asrepresented as they should be.
And so that's what I reallywanted to do is kind of share my
voice and being able to speakout for individuals who feel
like they're not alwaysrepresented in a space where
(29:44):
they should be.
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