July 16, 2019 • 32 mins
As the host of Outspoken Voices, you've heard Emily share some of her story growing up with LGBTQ+ parents. She is sharing even more of her journey to contact her sperm donor and donor siblings in the podcast, Rashomon. Listen to Season 2, episode 2 of Rashomon to hear Emily and her moms talk about their family journey and how Family Week in Provincetown changed everything. Then go and listen to the rest of Rashomon season 2 for even more of the story! www.rashomonpodcast.com
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Episode Transcript
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Emily (00:03):
If you've been listening for a while, you've heard me
(00:27):
share about having lesbian moms,a sperm donor I contacted at 18,
and several donor siblings.
Well, we all recorded parts ofour stories and shared them on
the excellent Rashomon Podcast,a show where one family tells
every side of the same story.
So today on Outspoken Voices,we're playing my family's
(00:50):
episode from Rashomon.
Enjoy.
Hillary (01:01):
For this season of Roshoman, I was super curious
about the definition of familyand how it can mean different
things to different people.
And so I put out a call forfamilies and I heard back from
Emily McGranachan.
Emily is also a podcaster.
She is the host of OutspokenCvoices, a podcast by and for
(01:23):
LGBTQ parents, people with LGBTQparents and grandparents and
everyone else who is part oftheir family journeys.
Emily was interested in sharingher family's story.
So I went to her home in Salem,Massachusetts to interview her.
Emily (01:43):
Yeah, so I grew up in Massachusetts with lesbian moms.
I had two moms, Cathy and Grace.
Hillary (01:50):
Cathy and Grace were together until Emily was four
and then they separated andthere was a buddy year when it
was just Cathy and I and I wouldsee grace, you know, once a
week, every other weekend, likevery traditional, you know, what
you would expect from a divorcedfamily.
And then Cathy started datingNancy.
I met Nancy then a little bitwhile after they had been
dating, they got a house, theyall moved in together.
And then Nancy second parentadopted me legally when I was 11
Nancy (02:14):
in 1994 I was recently single and I met Emily's
gestational mom, Cathy, and justwas blown away by her and the
fact that like she wanted tohave a kid and she just went
right out and did it.
We began dating and thateventually led to my becoming a
co-parent to Emily when she wasabout six years old and then
legally adopting her when shewas 11, which for me is just the
(02:37):
greatest joy and privilege of mylife.
Hillary (02:39):
Nancy and Cathy didn't stay together, but Nancy remains
Emily's adoptive parent.
And looking back, Nancy neverpictured herself as one,
Nancy (02:48):
You know, coming out in the 1970s and I loved children,
but I just did not see myselfbecoming a parent.
I thought, you know, bringing akid into all the prejudice and
such that we faced at that timejust wouldn't be the right thing
to do.
The children would probably hateus.
So it just didn't seem likesomething that was going to
happen in my life.
Hillary (03:06):
When Emily's other mom, Cathy was growing up, she had a
much different vision for herfuture.
Cathy (03:11):
I think I knew all my life that I desperately wanted
children.
And when I was 10 my mom had mysister and I thought my mother
had her for me because she justknew how desperate I was to have
a baby.
Hillary (03:22):
And as Cathy grew older...
Cathy (03:24):
I got to a point in my life when I realized, Oh my God,
this is just not going tohappen.
I got to find a way to do thisor I'm going to miss out on this
big important part of my life.
And it was like the fear, like,oh my God, what am I going to
do?
I may not ever have kids.
I have to take some somethinghere.
And it was just this clenchingin my stomach, you know, I have
(03:45):
to find some way to do this.
So in the beginning it wasreally hard.
I had no idea where to look orwho to ask.
I was trying to see if I knewany friends that had brothers or
somebody who would donate sperm.
And it was really toocomplicated for everybody to get
involved.
It was very emotional.
Hillary (04:02):
There wasn't a lot of information about how to go
about getting pregnant as asingle gay person.
And Cathy felt really in thedark.
Plus she was out in her personallife but not in her professional
life as a teacher.
Cathy (04:17):
Because at work, I mean teachers would say really
negative things about gaypeople.
Parents who loved me, requestedme to be their multiple
children's teacher, would saythings like when on the Ellen
Show she made that comment andthey were like, oh my God, I
can't let my children watch TVanymore.
They said the word lesbian andwent on and I was like, I'm
(04:38):
sitting there like, makes youfeel like crap, you know,
because you know these peoplerespect you and like you, but
you know the minute they feelthat the whole view of you is
going to be so different and soyou have to protect yourself.
Hillary (04:50):
In addition to keeping her private life private at
school, Cathy knew that once shereally looked into having a kid,
keeping her role as a special edteacher was going to be
difficult.
She had longer hours than mostteachers.
Cathy (05:03):
And I knew I would need a more regular schedule, with
daycare and things.
So I was trying to see if Icould get into regular ed.
I also asked, could they fire meif I'm a single woman and I'm
pregnant?
And they said, he told me no.
Hillary (05:17):
Cathy started doing more research and found Fenway
Health Center in Boston.
They're still around and ontheir current website their
mission statement says that theyare here to enhance the well
being of the lesbian, gay,bisexual, and transgender
community and all people in ourneighborhoods and beyond through
access to the highest qualityhealth care, education, research
(05:39):
and advocacy.
Now, Cathy finds Fenway healthin the late 1980s and she calls
them up to get more informationon her options for having a
child.
Cathy (05:48):
I remember being kind of horrified at this statement.
Someone said on the phone, Cathysaid, it sounded like the person
on the other end of the phonehad put the receiver and was
shouting to someone else in theoffice...
This lady is looking for cheapsperm or something like that.
I was like, what?
You know, I mean, I felt reallyterrible about this.
Like when I heard that fromthere I was like, whoa.
(06:09):
They're supposed to be like avery sympathetic to me
organization that should havebeen out to support me and that
was a little horrifying.
Hillary (06:18):
Eventually Cathy found a clinic in Cambridge that would
do donor insemination and shewas told that it would be with
an anonymous donor.
She liked the idea that shewouldn't know who he was because
it would keep her safe andprotected from someone taking
her child away.
But there was still a lot ofstress and nerves around this
big decision.
She was concerned about herfamily and her relatives and how
(06:41):
they were going to take it.
And then there was the anxietyof being a single woman and her
hidden personal life as ateacher and the stress of
planning out and timing theinsemination process.
Cathy (06:53):
I would have to predict a month ahead what day I was going
to ovulate the next month.
So you know, hit a miss.
Hillary (06:59):
When the timing was right, she would drive to
Cambridge and go to the clinic.
But once she arrived in theclinic, she was worried about
how things were being run there.
She would hear the midwiferunning back and forth between
rooms convinced that the spermwas being split up for more than
one insemination.
Cathy (07:17):
It was tough.
And then you'd lay there andthere was a poster across the
entire wall of like thousands ofbeautiful babies.
One of those posters with allthese cute little babies.
I'd be like, oh please!
Hillary (07:27):
After each visit Cathy would then have to wait a month
to see if she was pregnant andwhen she wasn't pregnant she
would go in again.
She doesn't remember ever seeingthe doctor at the clinic, just
the midwife, the woman thatCathy remembers being in charge
of everything.
Cathy (07:44):
My understanding was she was sort of the one who kind of
managed this whole inseminationprocess.
She would organize the dates andgetting stuff delivered.
And I remember one thing someonesaying about holding something
close to your body to keep itwarm, the sperm or something.
And I don't know what kind ofcontainer it was.
I don't know, I just kind ofblocked all that.
I just wanted to have a child.
I didn't really want to knowthat was happening.
(08:07):
So it was a lot of highs andlows, hopes and disappointments.
It took me about a year and ahalf I think finally to get
pregnant.
We couldn't believe it when Ifinally got pregnant and it was
like a perfect pregnancy.
It was beautiful.
It was very easy.
Hillary (08:23):
When she got pregnant, a lot if not all of Cathy's
worries went away and she feltlike her pregnancy was text
book, perfectly timed out.
Cathy (08:33):
I felt healthy and wonderful the whole time.
And people were great.
I was just so thrilled.
My parents, my aunts and uncles,no one was negative about it to
me.
People at school, I don't knowif they thought I was married,
but once I was pregnant I didn'tcare.
That was it.
This is what I wanted my wholelife now I was having and I knew
(08:56):
that I would be protectedlegally from my work and I could
see my parents and family beingthrilled for me and accepting, I
mean it was much, much betterthan I thought it was going to
be.
Hillary (09:09):
Even knowing that the donor was going to be anonymous,
Cathy remembers asking themidwife for a little bit of
information.
Cathy (09:17):
At one point, somehow I asked her something about the
donor.
My memory is that she said hewas German, he was a runner and
I think she said he was tall andI think she said brown eyes.
I mean those are my memories ofwhat she told me and I think
those were what I told Emily, Iwanted her to know anything I
knew.
Hillary (09:35):
After getting that little nugget of information,
Cathy doesn't remember everdwelling on all of the
possibilities of who this donorcould be.
Cathy (09:43):
Did I wonder a lot about him?
I mean, probably occasionallyhealth wise or you know,
whatever, but I kind of feltlike he was screened and that
was it.
I just didn't want to thinkabout that.
Hillary (09:58):
Once Cathy was pregnant, she went elsewhere for
her prenatal care and during herprenatal visits, she doesn't
remember anyone asking where shegot pregnant or how that place
kept track of everything.
She doesn't even ever remembertelling the midwife at the
clinic that she got pregnant.
Cathy (10:15):
That's also weird to me.
I think I saw the woman once,the midwife, a couple of years
later at a grocery store and Isaid something, I had a
beautiful little girl.
I don't think that she shouldhave known that.
You know, maybe they should'vebeen keeping track.
I don't really know.
Maybe they did and I justblocked, I don't know how, that
piece of it.
Hillary (10:37):
Cathy may have blocked some of it out, but growing up
Emily remembers stories of hermom going to the clinic and how
things operated over there.
Emily (10:45):
I don't know if I placed this in my head or someone else
placed this in my head, but thathe would like donate at home
like into a cup and then put itin a taxi and taxi the sperm to
the place, which of course isn'tpossible, but I really thought
that was the case for way toolong.
Then it would be in my head, I'mlike that poor taxi driver
(11:05):
must've been weirded out.
Hillary (11:08):
The other stories were around her donor's appearance
and whether the midwife hadshared any other information
with her mom.
Emily (11:16):
I remember her telling me was that he was athletic, he was
a runner, he had blonde hair andblue eyes.
And I knew that I didn't have adad growing up.
Like that was very obvious tome.
Hillary (11:29):
But what was less obvious was why she didn't know
her donor.
Cathy explained it was to keepEmily safe so he couldn't get
custody of her...
Emily (11:38):
Which then really made it seem kind of scary.
Like the reason is to keep mesafe because he's going to try
to take me away.
That was upsetting to thinkabout as a small child.
Hillary (11:48):
Of course with adult perspective, Emily knows that
Cathy explained the situation inan honest way, the scariness of
it all was in Emily'simagination and was part of the
story she was creating forherself.
Emily (12:00):
I would dream up stories in my head because I was a
creative kid and I had a wholelot of adults who loved me and I
was an only child so I got a lotof adult attention.
So you know, I wanted to createdrama in my head and in my life
and would dream he just wantedto pass letters to me, but he
can't, he's a prince somewhere.
(12:20):
He was always incredibly wealthyin my dreams.
He was famous, he was a prince,something like that was of
course going to be the case.
Nancy (12:27):
Nancy recalls meeting Emily when she was five and
hearing these fairytales, Shealways wanted to meet her dad
and she had a backstory for itthat she had kind of fantasize
that her dad just might be aprince.
He always had a very specialnecklace for her.
She's definitely not into liketons of jewelry now, but when
(12:49):
she was five years old, she justloved that backstory.
Hillary (12:53):
Fantasy story aside young.
Emily's sort of understood whata sperm donor was.
Emily (12:57):
I had a sense of how babies are made pretty young, in
part because once I hit school,I was getting asked by the other
kids, you know, where's yourdad?
What's your dad do?
I don't have a dad.
You have to have a dad.
Everybody has to have a dad.
Cathy (13:10):
I don't know when it was, but she was very young.
We would be in one of thoselittle clothing, toys store,
whatever at two when kids wouldwalk right up to her and say,
where's your daddy?
I'd be like, what?
I mean everybody's here withtheir mothers at the clothing
store, why are they asking heranything.
I had to kind of really talk toher right away that she didn't
have a daddy.
She had a Diddi, that's the nameshe called her other mom, my
(13:34):
partner at the time.
Hillary (13:34):
and when these bizarre moments were happening at such a
young age, Cathy and her partnerat the time, Crace, told Emily
about the sperm donation.
They said she was born in aspecial way and that she had a
donor because they needed spermfor their eggs and so on.
Cathy (13:50):
I can't remember exactly how we talked about it, but she
was very comfortable with it andshe would tell everybody and she
would out me more than anybody.
I mean when she was a littlekid, we thought that was really
important.
We had to make her becomfortable with it so that she
couldn't be teased becausewhat's there to tease her about,
she's really comfortable withit.
So she was more of an advocatethan I was.
Emily (14:12):
Around second or third grade, I knew enough at that
point that when kids would askme, I had been trained, kind of
coached at home that I couldanswer like, nope, don't have a
dad.
You have to have a dad.
I don't have a dad.
I have a sperm donor.
So I knew the word and that'swhat I told kids.
And when they would look at mewith wide eyes and say, what's a
sperm donor?
I was not allowed to elaborate.
My parents had made that veryclear and I had to say, you have
(14:34):
to ask your parents.
I'm not allowed to tell you- bigmystery around me.
Like I can't tell you i t's asecret.
No, I would j ust say they haveto ask your parents and kids
would and that would kind of beit.
And that was it for the mostpart.
And I must h ave been telling it pretty far and wide because I
have also memories being infourth grade, so around 10 years
old, and some kids trying totease me, do you e ver think
(14:56):
about how you were made?
And I was like, my mom went tothe doctor, do you think about
how you were made?
And t hat ended th at b ecausemy mo m w ent to the doctor,
done.
Hillary (15:20):
From the time Emily was aware of having a sperm donor,
she remembers learning about thecontract that her mom had signed
at the clinic saying that thedonor could not be contacted and
that he would remain anonymous.
Emily (15:31):
And that was just, that was the document that they had
all signed.
And when I was around eight orso, eight or nine, the clinic
just contacted us and said thatthings had changed.
Cathy (15:42):
We were not supposed to ever know.
And so then I got a letter fromthe clinic saying several moms
had gotten together and wereasking was there any way there
could be information about whothe donors were.
Hillary (15:54):
Cathy remembers the letters saying that the children
of the other moms were askingquestions.
They were concerned and wantedmore information,
Cathy (16:02):
So there was going to be something where we could all
give money.
It would go to some lawyer whowould then get the information
from any donor that was willingto share it or whatever and he
would hold onto it until thechildren were 18 and they could
then request themselves for theinformation, if the donor agreed
to it too.
Hillary (16:20):
Cathy knew it would be important to Emily,
Cathy (16:22):
So I thought I'll definitely, I'm in.
Hillary (16:23):
But then Cathy got another letter saying that it
all fell through.
Cathy (16:27):
But then I think, I don't know if it was a call from the
clinic or a letter saying thatthe donor or the donors are some
have agreed and were willing toshare information and I guess
they were going to hold itwithout a lawyer.
I don't know how, but someonewas going to keep that
information, but we no longerhad to pay for it.
I don't know how that happened.
There's like, oh, even better.
Hillary (16:52):
And as Emily got older, she knew that she wanted to
contact her donor.
Emily (16:56):
I was also very fortunate because both my moms, Cathy and
Nancy, let me decide.
They didn't make it feel like Iwas hurting them by wanting to
contact my donor.
It's such an understandablefear, if your child wants to
contact their donor.
Is that a reflection on myparenting?
Is that reflection on whatsociety tells everybody- that
(17:17):
two parent household ofdifferent genders is the way to
do it, and if you don't do itthat way, you're doing it wrong.
Hillary (17:28):
Now Emily's in middle school and she knew she still
had years to go before she couldactually reach out to her donor
and until that day shefantasized that he would
secretly send her clues aboutwho he was.
Emily (17:42):
And even in thinking that, it wasn't like I painted
my parents as people keeping usapart.
It was just for the drama of adramatic little kid.
I loved this idea.
Hillary (17:52):
Emily remembers one of her moms giving her a necklace.
Emily (17:55):
A blue stone pendant necklace.
So in my head then that wasactually necklace he had sent
her to give to me.
And so I used to pretend thatthat was a necklace that he had
then sent it to me.
Hillary (18:07):
As a preteen, Emily's donor daydreams turned from
princes and far away lands tocelebrities.
And she would have conversationswith her friends about all of
these new theories.
Emily (18:19):
You know, this famous person or what if he's this
famous person.
And then they're like, oh, butyou don't, this is again middle
school, 2003 ish.
You know, they're like, ohEmily, what if he's George Bush?
And I was like, Ooh, I dunno.
Hillary (18:30):
Emily also remembers watching VH1's Behind the Music
and then seeing one that wasabout an artist...
Emily (18:36):
Whose father they didn't really know growing up.
He had left her mother and wasdistant and then they reformed a
relationship when she was anadult.
And I was like, oh, well that'skinda like me.
And so I was like, oh, okay.
Like I see myself a little bitreflected in that.
Hillary (18:53):
And then she would see or read stories about people
contacting their birth familiesafter they had been adopted and
think,
Emily (19:00):
okay, that's kind of like me.
And so I would just sometimesdescribe myself as like half
adopted, all of which is nottrue.
I just didn't have any realmodels or people to talk with
about it growing up.
Hillary (19:12):
None of Emily's parents' friends had kids and
all of her peers had parents whowere married when they were
conceived.
She had nobody else to compareher family situation to.
But that was about to change.
Emily (19:24):
And it really wasn't until I was 13 and I went to
Family Week in Provincetown forthe first time.
Hillary (19:29):
Family Week is the largest gathering of LGBTQ
families in the world.
Emily (19:34):
And I had no idea what to expect going into it.
And all of a sudden I went fromnever having met a single other
person who had gay parents tobeing completely surrounded by
them in Provincetown, Mass.
And it was amazing.
Cathy (19:48):
Yeah.
I think was Nancy that foundFamily Week online and said, you
know, we should do this.
We should bring her down.
We went the first year and itwas like, what have we been
missing?
What has she been missing?
I mean it was really for her.
Hillary (20:02):
Nancy also felt that going to Family Week was mostly
for Emily to have a specialexperience.
Nancy (20:09):
You know when I came out and I went to gay pride and I
saw these thousands of people inthe street that were like me, it
was such an empowering feeling.
It just made things cometogether for you.
You didn't feel so all alone andI wanted her to experience that.
Hillary (20:22):
Nancy had watched a program on PBS about Family Week
in Provincetown.
They interviewed kids who hadfelt awkward with having friends
over because they didn't want toexplain their family structure.
Nancy (20:33):
And then coming back from Family Week and flat out telling
everybody your parents were gayand being proud of it.
So I really wanted Emily to havethat experience.
Hillary (20:47):
So Cathy, Nancy and Emily headed to Family Week.
Emily even got to bring a friendfrom school, an SPK- a term
coined at Family Week that stoodfor'Straight-Parented-Kid'.
Nancy (21:03):
I remember when we finally got there, we went
downtown, it was sign up day andreally nothing is going on.
You go to town hall and theywere just people selling some
merchandise and you sign up andyou get your little sticker that
says you're part of Family Week.
And we walked in and it wasn'treally that crowded, we went
early and Emily just lookedaround at all of the posters and
(21:24):
the shirts and she's like, oh myGod, we're coming back every
year.
Emily (21:27):
So I first went to Family Week at 13 and I hadn't met
anybody else who had gay parentsbefore then.
Cathy (21:35):
It was nice for the parents too because the parents
got together.
You felt like you were part ofthis whole group, you were not
so different, your families withthe same, it was just such a
comfortable free, no walls, justrelaxed kind of a feeling.
And the kids were having a blastand it makes a mom happy when
their children are just soexcited and so happy.
(21:55):
So she was making friends, shewas getting to go out at night.
I just felt really safe there.
Emily (22:00):
One of the first events that used to kick off the week
was a parade through town.
So I went from not knowinganother soul and being'the' kid
in town who had gay parents tomarching through the main street
of Provincetown and just gettingto the top of a little bit of a
hill and as far as we can see infront of us and as far as we
(22:22):
could see behind us was justother queer families.
Cathy (22:24):
It was just so freeing.
And then when they had theparade, just walking up that
street and turn it around, lookat like hundreds and hundreds of
parents and children all likethrilled and waving banners and
banging drums and it was just,it was just so freeing and so
(22:49):
accepting.
And so you felt normal, notlike, you know, it was just
really, really nice.
Then I could see how much itmeant to her and how much it
meant to us.
I mean I think all of us justturned around and started
crying.
It was such an emotionalexperience.
I think that's what it was.
It was so emotional.
Emily (23:06):
And so the three of us needed to step to the sidewalk
and just like cried together fora little while cause it was very
overwhelming and then got backinto the parade and finished the
little parade route there.
Hillary (23:17):
From that summer onward, Emily and her moms
attended Family Week and inbetween, Emily stayed in touch
with all of her new friends.
Cathy (23:25):
They had countdowns as each family was driving from DC
or Philadelphia or wherever.
They were all phone in eachother.
Here's where I am.
We're almost there.
You could just see how much itmeant to them.
It was like you could never denyher that after that, after she
had that.
Emily (23:41):
I had been proud and out about my family in my little
town.
My friends knew, our neighborsknew, teachers knew, everybody
knew.
And I was happy to talk about itwith anybody, but at the same
time I felt alone in it.
And so all of a sudden I wasaround other people.
I was having conversations thatI wasn't able to have with
anybody else about thechallenges, so that while I
(24:01):
wasn't ever harassed about it atschool, it was weird, you know,
it was something weird about meor it was an interesting fact
about me.
And I know at Family Week havingtwo moms and really three moms,
I was the least exciting personthere.
I mean, I've got a friend Aviwho's got I think four lesbian
(24:24):
moms, four gay dads and I'mlike, well Geez, I can't compete
with that.
We were all jealous.
Like, he's got gay dads andlesbian moms?
Oh, what a lucky kid!
Hillary (24:35):
When Emily returned from that first Family Week, she
was much more comfortablespeaking up for herself and for
her family.
Emily (24:42):
Even though I had been loud about it before, I just got
louder.
And my first year that I wentthere was 2003 and by 2004,
after my second year of FamilyWeek is around the time that in
Massachusetts marriage equalitywas decided by the courts.
Hillary (24:57):
And then shortly after marriage equality was challenged
by Massachusetts statelegislator.
They wanted to make a ballotreferendum that people could
vote for about whether or not tokeep it.
Emily (25:09):
My family was being debated constantly.
That's all I heard.
It was in the news, it was onthe radio.
My peers were finally talkingabout gay people in very
ignorant ways for the most part,other than my friends who stood
up for my family.
I had the tools then to be morevocal.
So I talked to my localrepresentative and I told her
(25:29):
that I appreciated her vote formy family and was able to do
that.
Hillary (25:33):
And Emily felt like she was able to do that because of
Family Week and the communitythat she had found there.
Emily (25:38):
That was my introduction to this whole world of building
confidence and feeling pride inmy identity.
Nancy (25:44):
One of the things they sell in Provincetown at Family
Week by COLAGE were t-shirtsthat said queerspawn, which
Emily just relates to that termso much.
She loves it and it was thefirst time that I heard the term
queer spawn.
Emily learned that this termqueer spawn was coined by one of
the founders of family week tohave a term of our own for
people with LGBTQ parents and Iloved it.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I got a tee shirt that said queer spawn on it.
I remember wearing it to aschool dance, so she went to her
George junior high dance with aqueer spawn tee shirt on and
people actually liked it.
They wanted to know where shegot it and the other kids being
like, that's cool.
Like I want a shirt like that.
And I was like, you can't haveone.
It means I have gay parents.
Like they'll, I was like a coolband, you know, and I thought I
(26:27):
was just awesome.
Emily had a term and she had aspace within the LGBTQ
community.
I wasn't like just a child of, Iwasn't, I wasn't an ally because
this was my family, this was mylife, this was the culture I
grew up in.
If she found that coming outthat her enough to
Speaker 5 (26:44):
not just be out and folk, nobody's going to let give
her a hard time.
She was just in your face withit and it really, it caught on
Speaker 1 (27:00):
as Emily's 18th birthday got closer and closer.
One of the other really valuablethings that she got out of
family week was finally gettingto talk to other teens who had a
sperm donor and connecting overwhat they were thinking about
and expecting from a possible
Speaker 2 (27:15):
the relationship with their donor and then really
talking about it with otherpeople and we're like, no, I
mean this was a contract and twoadults who knew what they were
going into and he couldn'tcontact me for legal reasons and
so the more I talked about it, Iwas like, oh, that's very true.
Like, this is somebody who wasdoing a kind of thing for
someone who wanted to have achild and was just missing that
(27:36):
one biological piece that hecould provide.
And it helped me temper some ofmy expectations or my hopes for
what it could be.
So it's not a prince who's justdesperately trying to reach me
and instead it was somebody whohad done a a really kind thing,
a really generous thing to, youknow, help people form a family.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
The best thing I ever did in my life was take the risk
of being ostracized or whateverand having her go and against
my, you know, Roman Catholic, Iwent to parochial school, I went
to a Catholic Jesuit college andto say, I can't, this is more
important than that.
And then it turned out so well.
(28:14):
I mean, I just feel so lucky,you know,
Speaker 8 (28:27):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (28:27):
flash forward and Emily is just about to turn 18
and she could go ahead withcontacting her donor.
The ball was always in my court,which I really appreciated.
And also is not often depictedin like films and movies that
show donor contacting.
Yeah, spoiler alert.
We'll talk more about the moviesthat have depicted this type of
(28:48):
family structure in a futureepisode.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Emily got all of the paperwork together before her
18th birthday.
She wrote a letter, got itnotarized and sent it away on
her birthday without too manyexpectations of what might
Speaker 2 (29:02):
come back.
My biggest hope is just like,can I know some medical
information about you?
Like that's really what Iwanted.
Baseline and anything else wasjust cherry on top.
Like that'd be great.
Of course Nancy supportedEmily's decision, but she really
didn't know what to expect.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
We didn't know if this was going to be just a
letter with some medicalinformation and maybe he didn't
want to meet directly or maybeit's just one quick meeting, but
he could tell Emily wanted it tobe a little more than that.
She wanted to get to know thisperson and have this person, you
know, maybe not take over herlife by any stretch, but it's
like to be a part of her life.
(29:37):
So it was a lot of anxietieswhen we heading towards that.
At this point, Nancy
Speaker 1 (29:42):
had been co-parenting Emily for about 13 years.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
You'll love your kid and you, yeah.
You don't want to see themdisappointed.
So for her, I'm sure it's, youknow, she's going through the
same thing wondering about allof these things.
And for me, I'm just hoping thatthis is a great guy that will
actually take some time to getto know Emily and behind her
it's just not a letter and um,you have nothing beyond that.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (30:07):
and then a bunch of time passed, it's Christmas Day
and that day the phone rings andit's the doctor from the clinic
and he asked to speak to Emilyat red, the most beautiful
letter.
Yeah.
It was so unexpected to find outand get the confirmation that my
donor was willing to becontacted and to get that on
(30:30):
Christmas Day out of the blue,you know, we got a phone call
and of course we're like, oh,it's on so-and-so or they're
late, you know, they're, maybethey're running late to come
over and just had noexpectation.
And when my mom passed me thephone, it was the doctor just
saying that they finally got theconfirmation from the donor and
he was willing to be contacted.
The Ansi and Cathy were thrilledfor Emily is I get teary
(30:52):
thinking about it because it wasjust like, you know, you don't
want to see kids for it and it'slike it was just beautiful.
It was like the best Christmaspresent she could get.
Emily (31:14):
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
I highly recommend listening tothe whole second season with all
of my families, my big extendedfamilies episodes.
Rashomon is produced and hostedby Hillary Ray and music and the
episode was by Ben Chase andPaul Defiglia.
You can listen to all ofRashomon on your favorite
(31:36):
podcast app or atrashomonpodcast.
com
If you've been listening for a while, you've heard me
(00:27):
share about having lesbian moms,a sperm donor I contacted at 18,
and several donor siblings.
Well, we all recorded parts ofour stories and shared them on
the excellent Rashomon Podcast,a show where one family tells
every side of the same story.
So today on Outspoken Voices,we're playing my family's
(00:50):
episode from Rashomon.
Enjoy.
Hillary (01:01):
For this season of Roshoman, I was super curious
about the definition of familyand how it can mean different
things to different people.
And so I put out a call forfamilies and I heard back from
Emily McGranachan.
Emily is also a podcaster.
She is the host of OutspokenCvoices, a podcast by and for
(01:23):
LGBTQ parents, people with LGBTQparents and grandparents and
everyone else who is part oftheir family journeys.
Emily was interested in sharingher family's story.
So I went to her home in Salem,Massachusetts to interview her.
Emily (01:43):
Yeah, so I grew up in Massachusetts with lesbian moms.
I had two moms, Cathy and Grace.
Hillary (01:50):
Cathy and Grace were together until Emily was four
and then they separated andthere was a buddy year when it
was just Cathy and I and I wouldsee grace, you know, once a
week, every other weekend, likevery traditional, you know, what
you would expect from a divorcedfamily.
And then Cathy started datingNancy.
I met Nancy then a little bitwhile after they had been
dating, they got a house, theyall moved in together.
And then Nancy second parentadopted me legally when I was 11
Nancy (02:14):
in 1994 I was recently single and I met Emily's
gestational mom, Cathy, and justwas blown away by her and the
fact that like she wanted tohave a kid and she just went
right out and did it.
We began dating and thateventually led to my becoming a
co-parent to Emily when she wasabout six years old and then
legally adopting her when shewas 11, which for me is just the
(02:37):
greatest joy and privilege of mylife.
Hillary (02:39):
Nancy and Cathy didn't stay together, but Nancy remains
Emily's adoptive parent.
And looking back, Nancy neverpictured herself as one,
Nancy (02:48):
You know, coming out in the 1970s and I loved children,
but I just did not see myselfbecoming a parent.
I thought, you know, bringing akid into all the prejudice and
such that we faced at that timejust wouldn't be the right thing
to do.
The children would probably hateus.
So it just didn't seem likesomething that was going to
happen in my life.
Hillary (03:06):
When Emily's other mom, Cathy was growing up, she had a
much different vision for herfuture.
Cathy (03:11):
I think I knew all my life that I desperately wanted
children.
And when I was 10 my mom had mysister and I thought my mother
had her for me because she justknew how desperate I was to have
a baby.
Hillary (03:22):
And as Cathy grew older...
Cathy (03:24):
I got to a point in my life when I realized, Oh my God,
this is just not going tohappen.
I got to find a way to do thisor I'm going to miss out on this
big important part of my life.
And it was like the fear, like,oh my God, what am I going to
do?
I may not ever have kids.
I have to take some somethinghere.
And it was just this clenchingin my stomach, you know, I have
(03:45):
to find some way to do this.
So in the beginning it wasreally hard.
I had no idea where to look orwho to ask.
I was trying to see if I knewany friends that had brothers or
somebody who would donate sperm.
And it was really toocomplicated for everybody to get
involved.
It was very emotional.
Hillary (04:02):
There wasn't a lot of information about how to go
about getting pregnant as asingle gay person.
And Cathy felt really in thedark.
Plus she was out in her personallife but not in her professional
life as a teacher.
Cathy (04:17):
Because at work, I mean teachers would say really
negative things about gaypeople.
Parents who loved me, requestedme to be their multiple
children's teacher, would saythings like when on the Ellen
Show she made that comment andthey were like, oh my God, I
can't let my children watch TVanymore.
They said the word lesbian andwent on and I was like, I'm
(04:38):
sitting there like, makes youfeel like crap, you know,
because you know these peoplerespect you and like you, but
you know the minute they feelthat the whole view of you is
going to be so different and soyou have to protect yourself.
Hillary (04:50):
In addition to keeping her private life private at
school, Cathy knew that once shereally looked into having a kid,
keeping her role as a special edteacher was going to be
difficult.
She had longer hours than mostteachers.
Cathy (05:03):
And I knew I would need a more regular schedule, with
daycare and things.
So I was trying to see if Icould get into regular ed.
I also asked, could they fire meif I'm a single woman and I'm
pregnant?
And they said, he told me no.
Hillary (05:17):
Cathy started doing more research and found Fenway
Health Center in Boston.
They're still around and ontheir current website their
mission statement says that theyare here to enhance the well
being of the lesbian, gay,bisexual, and transgender
community and all people in ourneighborhoods and beyond through
access to the highest qualityhealth care, education, research
(05:39):
and advocacy.
Now, Cathy finds Fenway healthin the late 1980s and she calls
them up to get more informationon her options for having a
child.
Cathy (05:48):
I remember being kind of horrified at this statement.
Someone said on the phone, Cathysaid, it sounded like the person
on the other end of the phonehad put the receiver and was
shouting to someone else in theoffice...
This lady is looking for cheapsperm or something like that.
I was like, what?
You know, I mean, I felt reallyterrible about this.
Like when I heard that fromthere I was like, whoa.
(06:09):
They're supposed to be like avery sympathetic to me
organization that should havebeen out to support me and that
was a little horrifying.
Hillary (06:18):
Eventually Cathy found a clinic in Cambridge that would
do donor insemination and shewas told that it would be with
an anonymous donor.
She liked the idea that shewouldn't know who he was because
it would keep her safe andprotected from someone taking
her child away.
But there was still a lot ofstress and nerves around this
big decision.
She was concerned about herfamily and her relatives and how
(06:41):
they were going to take it.
And then there was the anxietyof being a single woman and her
hidden personal life as ateacher and the stress of
planning out and timing theinsemination process.
Cathy (06:53):
I would have to predict a month ahead what day I was going
to ovulate the next month.
So you know, hit a miss.
Hillary (06:59):
When the timing was right, she would drive to
Cambridge and go to the clinic.
But once she arrived in theclinic, she was worried about
how things were being run there.
She would hear the midwiferunning back and forth between
rooms convinced that the spermwas being split up for more than
one insemination.
Cathy (07:17):
It was tough.
And then you'd lay there andthere was a poster across the
entire wall of like thousands ofbeautiful babies.
One of those posters with allthese cute little babies.
I'd be like, oh please!
Hillary (07:27):
After each visit Cathy would then have to wait a month
to see if she was pregnant andwhen she wasn't pregnant she
would go in again.
She doesn't remember ever seeingthe doctor at the clinic, just
the midwife, the woman thatCathy remembers being in charge
of everything.
Cathy (07:44):
My understanding was she was sort of the one who kind of
managed this whole inseminationprocess.
She would organize the dates andgetting stuff delivered.
And I remember one thing someonesaying about holding something
close to your body to keep itwarm, the sperm or something.
And I don't know what kind ofcontainer it was.
I don't know, I just kind ofblocked all that.
I just wanted to have a child.
I didn't really want to knowthat was happening.
(08:07):
So it was a lot of highs andlows, hopes and disappointments.
It took me about a year and ahalf I think finally to get
pregnant.
We couldn't believe it when Ifinally got pregnant and it was
like a perfect pregnancy.
It was beautiful.
It was very easy.
Hillary (08:23):
When she got pregnant, a lot if not all of Cathy's
worries went away and she feltlike her pregnancy was text
book, perfectly timed out.
Cathy (08:33):
I felt healthy and wonderful the whole time.
And people were great.
I was just so thrilled.
My parents, my aunts and uncles,no one was negative about it to
me.
People at school, I don't knowif they thought I was married,
but once I was pregnant I didn'tcare.
That was it.
This is what I wanted my wholelife now I was having and I knew
(08:56):
that I would be protectedlegally from my work and I could
see my parents and family beingthrilled for me and accepting, I
mean it was much, much betterthan I thought it was going to
be.
Hillary (09:09):
Even knowing that the donor was going to be anonymous,
Cathy remembers asking themidwife for a little bit of
information.
Cathy (09:17):
At one point, somehow I asked her something about the
donor.
My memory is that she said hewas German, he was a runner and
I think she said he was tall andI think she said brown eyes.
I mean those are my memories ofwhat she told me and I think
those were what I told Emily, Iwanted her to know anything I
knew.
Hillary (09:35):
After getting that little nugget of information,
Cathy doesn't remember everdwelling on all of the
possibilities of who this donorcould be.
Cathy (09:43):
Did I wonder a lot about him?
I mean, probably occasionallyhealth wise or you know,
whatever, but I kind of feltlike he was screened and that
was it.
I just didn't want to thinkabout that.
Hillary (09:58):
Once Cathy was pregnant, she went elsewhere for
her prenatal care and during herprenatal visits, she doesn't
remember anyone asking where shegot pregnant or how that place
kept track of everything.
She doesn't even ever remembertelling the midwife at the
clinic that she got pregnant.
Cathy (10:15):
That's also weird to me.
I think I saw the woman once,the midwife, a couple of years
later at a grocery store and Isaid something, I had a
beautiful little girl.
I don't think that she shouldhave known that.
You know, maybe they should'vebeen keeping track.
I don't really know.
Maybe they did and I justblocked, I don't know how, that
piece of it.
Hillary (10:37):
Cathy may have blocked some of it out, but growing up
Emily remembers stories of hermom going to the clinic and how
things operated over there.
Emily (10:45):
I don't know if I placed this in my head or someone else
placed this in my head, but thathe would like donate at home
like into a cup and then put itin a taxi and taxi the sperm to
the place, which of course isn'tpossible, but I really thought
that was the case for way toolong.
Then it would be in my head, I'mlike that poor taxi driver
(11:05):
must've been weirded out.
Hillary (11:08):
The other stories were around her donor's appearance
and whether the midwife hadshared any other information
with her mom.
Emily (11:16):
I remember her telling me was that he was athletic, he was
a runner, he had blonde hair andblue eyes.
And I knew that I didn't have adad growing up.
Like that was very obvious tome.
Hillary (11:29):
But what was less obvious was why she didn't know
her donor.
Cathy explained it was to keepEmily safe so he couldn't get
custody of her...
Emily (11:38):
Which then really made it seem kind of scary.
Like the reason is to keep mesafe because he's going to try
to take me away.
That was upsetting to thinkabout as a small child.
Hillary (11:48):
Of course with adult perspective, Emily knows that
Cathy explained the situation inan honest way, the scariness of
it all was in Emily'simagination and was part of the
story she was creating forherself.
Emily (12:00):
I would dream up stories in my head because I was a
creative kid and I had a wholelot of adults who loved me and I
was an only child so I got a lotof adult attention.
So you know, I wanted to createdrama in my head and in my life
and would dream he just wantedto pass letters to me, but he
can't, he's a prince somewhere.
(12:20):
He was always incredibly wealthyin my dreams.
He was famous, he was a prince,something like that was of
course going to be the case.
Nancy (12:27):
Nancy recalls meeting Emily when she was five and
hearing these fairytales, Shealways wanted to meet her dad
and she had a backstory for itthat she had kind of fantasize
that her dad just might be aprince.
He always had a very specialnecklace for her.
She's definitely not into liketons of jewelry now, but when
(12:49):
she was five years old, she justloved that backstory.
Hillary (12:53):
Fantasy story aside young.
Emily's sort of understood whata sperm donor was.
Emily (12:57):
I had a sense of how babies are made pretty young, in
part because once I hit school,I was getting asked by the other
kids, you know, where's yourdad?
What's your dad do?
I don't have a dad.
You have to have a dad.
Everybody has to have a dad.
Cathy (13:10):
I don't know when it was, but she was very young.
We would be in one of thoselittle clothing, toys store,
whatever at two when kids wouldwalk right up to her and say,
where's your daddy?
I'd be like, what?
I mean everybody's here withtheir mothers at the clothing
store, why are they asking heranything.
I had to kind of really talk toher right away that she didn't
have a daddy.
She had a Diddi, that's the nameshe called her other mom, my
(13:34):
partner at the time.
Hillary (13:34):
and when these bizarre moments were happening at such a
young age, Cathy and her partnerat the time, Crace, told Emily
about the sperm donation.
They said she was born in aspecial way and that she had a
donor because they needed spermfor their eggs and so on.
Cathy (13:50):
I can't remember exactly how we talked about it, but she
was very comfortable with it andshe would tell everybody and she
would out me more than anybody.
I mean when she was a littlekid, we thought that was really
important.
We had to make her becomfortable with it so that she
couldn't be teased becausewhat's there to tease her about,
she's really comfortable withit.
So she was more of an advocatethan I was.
Emily (14:12):
Around second or third grade, I knew enough at that
point that when kids would askme, I had been trained, kind of
coached at home that I couldanswer like, nope, don't have a
dad.
You have to have a dad.
I don't have a dad.
I have a sperm donor.
So I knew the word and that'swhat I told kids.
And when they would look at mewith wide eyes and say, what's a
sperm donor?
I was not allowed to elaborate.
My parents had made that veryclear and I had to say, you have
(14:34):
to ask your parents.
I'm not allowed to tell you- bigmystery around me.
Like I can't tell you i t's asecret.
No, I would j ust say they haveto ask your parents and kids
would and that would kind of beit.
And that was it for the mostpart.
And I must h ave been telling it pretty far and wide because I
have also memories being infourth grade, so around 10 years
old, and some kids trying totease me, do you e ver think
(14:56):
about how you were made?
And I was like, my mom went tothe doctor, do you think about
how you were made?
And t hat ended th at b ecausemy mo m w ent to the doctor,
done.
Hillary (15:20):
From the time Emily was aware of having a sperm donor,
she remembers learning about thecontract that her mom had signed
at the clinic saying that thedonor could not be contacted and
that he would remain anonymous.
Emily (15:31):
And that was just, that was the document that they had
all signed.
And when I was around eight orso, eight or nine, the clinic
just contacted us and said thatthings had changed.
Cathy (15:42):
We were not supposed to ever know.
And so then I got a letter fromthe clinic saying several moms
had gotten together and wereasking was there any way there
could be information about whothe donors were.
Hillary (15:54):
Cathy remembers the letters saying that the children
of the other moms were askingquestions.
They were concerned and wantedmore information,
Cathy (16:02):
So there was going to be something where we could all
give money.
It would go to some lawyer whowould then get the information
from any donor that was willingto share it or whatever and he
would hold onto it until thechildren were 18 and they could
then request themselves for theinformation, if the donor agreed
to it too.
Hillary (16:20):
Cathy knew it would be important to Emily,
Cathy (16:22):
So I thought I'll definitely, I'm in.
Hillary (16:23):
But then Cathy got another letter saying that it
all fell through.
Cathy (16:27):
But then I think, I don't know if it was a call from the
clinic or a letter saying thatthe donor or the donors are some
have agreed and were willing toshare information and I guess
they were going to hold itwithout a lawyer.
I don't know how, but someonewas going to keep that
information, but we no longerhad to pay for it.
I don't know how that happened.
There's like, oh, even better.
Hillary (16:52):
And as Emily got older, she knew that she wanted to
contact her donor.
Emily (16:56):
I was also very fortunate because both my moms, Cathy and
Nancy, let me decide.
They didn't make it feel like Iwas hurting them by wanting to
contact my donor.
It's such an understandablefear, if your child wants to
contact their donor.
Is that a reflection on myparenting?
Is that reflection on whatsociety tells everybody- that
(17:17):
two parent household ofdifferent genders is the way to
do it, and if you don't do itthat way, you're doing it wrong.
Hillary (17:28):
Now Emily's in middle school and she knew she still
had years to go before she couldactually reach out to her donor
and until that day shefantasized that he would
secretly send her clues aboutwho he was.
Emily (17:42):
And even in thinking that, it wasn't like I painted
my parents as people keeping usapart.
It was just for the drama of adramatic little kid.
I loved this idea.
Hillary (17:52):
Emily remembers one of her moms giving her a necklace.
Emily (17:55):
A blue stone pendant necklace.
So in my head then that wasactually necklace he had sent
her to give to me.
And so I used to pretend thatthat was a necklace that he had
then sent it to me.
Hillary (18:07):
As a preteen, Emily's donor daydreams turned from
princes and far away lands tocelebrities.
And she would have conversationswith her friends about all of
these new theories.
Emily (18:19):
You know, this famous person or what if he's this
famous person.
And then they're like, oh, butyou don't, this is again middle
school, 2003 ish.
You know, they're like, ohEmily, what if he's George Bush?
And I was like, Ooh, I dunno.
Hillary (18:30):
Emily also remembers watching VH1's Behind the Music
and then seeing one that wasabout an artist...
Emily (18:36):
Whose father they didn't really know growing up.
He had left her mother and wasdistant and then they reformed a
relationship when she was anadult.
And I was like, oh, well that'skinda like me.
And so I was like, oh, okay.
Like I see myself a little bitreflected in that.
Hillary (18:53):
And then she would see or read stories about people
contacting their birth familiesafter they had been adopted and
think,
Emily (19:00):
okay, that's kind of like me.
And so I would just sometimesdescribe myself as like half
adopted, all of which is nottrue.
I just didn't have any realmodels or people to talk with
about it growing up.
Hillary (19:12):
None of Emily's parents' friends had kids and
all of her peers had parents whowere married when they were
conceived.
She had nobody else to compareher family situation to.
But that was about to change.
Emily (19:24):
And it really wasn't until I was 13 and I went to
Family Week in Provincetown forthe first time.
Hillary (19:29):
Family Week is the largest gathering of LGBTQ
families in the world.
Emily (19:34):
And I had no idea what to expect going into it.
And all of a sudden I went fromnever having met a single other
person who had gay parents tobeing completely surrounded by
them in Provincetown, Mass.
And it was amazing.
Cathy (19:48):
Yeah.
I think was Nancy that foundFamily Week online and said, you
know, we should do this.
We should bring her down.
We went the first year and itwas like, what have we been
missing?
What has she been missing?
I mean it was really for her.
Hillary (20:02):
Nancy also felt that going to Family Week was mostly
for Emily to have a specialexperience.
Nancy (20:09):
You know when I came out and I went to gay pride and I
saw these thousands of people inthe street that were like me, it
was such an empowering feeling.
It just made things cometogether for you.
You didn't feel so all alone andI wanted her to experience that.
Hillary (20:22):
Nancy had watched a program on PBS about Family Week
in Provincetown.
They interviewed kids who hadfelt awkward with having friends
over because they didn't want toexplain their family structure.
Nancy (20:33):
And then coming back from Family Week and flat out telling
everybody your parents were gayand being proud of it.
So I really wanted Emily to havethat experience.
Hillary (20:47):
So Cathy, Nancy and Emily headed to Family Week.
Emily even got to bring a friendfrom school, an SPK- a term
coined at Family Week that stoodfor'Straight-Parented-Kid'.
Nancy (21:03):
I remember when we finally got there, we went
downtown, it was sign up day andreally nothing is going on.
You go to town hall and theywere just people selling some
merchandise and you sign up andyou get your little sticker that
says you're part of Family Week.
And we walked in and it wasn'treally that crowded, we went
early and Emily just lookedaround at all of the posters and
(21:24):
the shirts and she's like, oh myGod, we're coming back every
year.
Emily (21:27):
So I first went to Family Week at 13 and I hadn't met
anybody else who had gay parentsbefore then.
Cathy (21:35):
It was nice for the parents too because the parents
got together.
You felt like you were part ofthis whole group, you were not
so different, your families withthe same, it was just such a
comfortable free, no walls, justrelaxed kind of a feeling.
And the kids were having a blastand it makes a mom happy when
their children are just soexcited and so happy.
(21:55):
So she was making friends, shewas getting to go out at night.
I just felt really safe there.
Emily (22:00):
One of the first events that used to kick off the week
was a parade through town.
So I went from not knowinganother soul and being'the' kid
in town who had gay parents tomarching through the main street
of Provincetown and just gettingto the top of a little bit of a
hill and as far as we can see infront of us and as far as we
(22:22):
could see behind us was justother queer families.
Cathy (22:24):
It was just so freeing.
And then when they had theparade, just walking up that
street and turn it around, lookat like hundreds and hundreds of
parents and children all likethrilled and waving banners and
banging drums and it was just,it was just so freeing and so
(22:49):
accepting.
And so you felt normal, notlike, you know, it was just
really, really nice.
Then I could see how much itmeant to her and how much it
meant to us.
I mean I think all of us justturned around and started
crying.
It was such an emotionalexperience.
I think that's what it was.
It was so emotional.
Emily (23:06):
And so the three of us needed to step to the sidewalk
and just like cried together fora little while cause it was very
overwhelming and then got backinto the parade and finished the
little parade route there.
Hillary (23:17):
From that summer onward, Emily and her moms
attended Family Week and inbetween, Emily stayed in touch
with all of her new friends.
Cathy (23:25):
They had countdowns as each family was driving from DC
or Philadelphia or wherever.
They were all phone in eachother.
Here's where I am.
We're almost there.
You could just see how much itmeant to them.
It was like you could never denyher that after that, after she
had that.
Emily (23:41):
I had been proud and out about my family in my little
town.
My friends knew, our neighborsknew, teachers knew, everybody
knew.
And I was happy to talk about itwith anybody, but at the same
time I felt alone in it.
And so all of a sudden I wasaround other people.
I was having conversations thatI wasn't able to have with
anybody else about thechallenges, so that while I
(24:01):
wasn't ever harassed about it atschool, it was weird, you know,
it was something weird about meor it was an interesting fact
about me.
And I know at Family Week havingtwo moms and really three moms,
I was the least exciting personthere.
I mean, I've got a friend Aviwho's got I think four lesbian
(24:24):
moms, four gay dads and I'mlike, well Geez, I can't compete
with that.
We were all jealous.
Like, he's got gay dads andlesbian moms?
Oh, what a lucky kid!
Hillary (24:35):
When Emily returned from that first Family Week, she
was much more comfortablespeaking up for herself and for
her family.
Emily (24:42):
Even though I had been loud about it before, I just got
louder.
And my first year that I wentthere was 2003 and by 2004,
after my second year of FamilyWeek is around the time that in
Massachusetts marriage equalitywas decided by the courts.
Hillary (24:57):
And then shortly after marriage equality was challenged
by Massachusetts statelegislator.
They wanted to make a ballotreferendum that people could
vote for about whether or not tokeep it.
Emily (25:09):
My family was being debated constantly.
That's all I heard.
It was in the news, it was onthe radio.
My peers were finally talkingabout gay people in very
ignorant ways for the most part,other than my friends who stood
up for my family.
I had the tools then to be morevocal.
So I talked to my localrepresentative and I told her
(25:29):
that I appreciated her vote formy family and was able to do
that.
Hillary (25:33):
And Emily felt like she was able to do that because of
Family Week and the communitythat she had found there.
Emily (25:38):
That was my introduction to this whole world of building
confidence and feeling pride inmy identity.
Nancy (25:44):
One of the things they sell in Provincetown at Family
Week by COLAGE were t-shirtsthat said queerspawn, which
Emily just relates to that termso much.
She loves it and it was thefirst time that I heard the term
queer spawn.
Emily learned that this termqueer spawn was coined by one of
the founders of family week tohave a term of our own for
people with LGBTQ parents and Iloved it.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I got a tee shirt that said queer spawn on it.
I remember wearing it to aschool dance, so she went to her
George junior high dance with aqueer spawn tee shirt on and
people actually liked it.
They wanted to know where shegot it and the other kids being
like, that's cool.
Like I want a shirt like that.
And I was like, you can't haveone.
It means I have gay parents.
Like they'll, I was like a coolband, you know, and I thought I
(26:27):
was just awesome.
Emily had a term and she had aspace within the LGBTQ
community.
I wasn't like just a child of, Iwasn't, I wasn't an ally because
this was my family, this was mylife, this was the culture I
grew up in.
If she found that coming outthat her enough to
Speaker 5 (26:44):
not just be out and folk, nobody's going to let give
her a hard time.
She was just in your face withit and it really, it caught on
Speaker 1 (27:00):
as Emily's 18th birthday got closer and closer.
One of the other really valuablethings that she got out of
family week was finally gettingto talk to other teens who had a
sperm donor and connecting overwhat they were thinking about
and expecting from a possible
Speaker 2 (27:15):
the relationship with their donor and then really
talking about it with otherpeople and we're like, no, I
mean this was a contract and twoadults who knew what they were
going into and he couldn'tcontact me for legal reasons and
so the more I talked about it, Iwas like, oh, that's very true.
Like, this is somebody who wasdoing a kind of thing for
someone who wanted to have achild and was just missing that
(27:36):
one biological piece that hecould provide.
And it helped me temper some ofmy expectations or my hopes for
what it could be.
So it's not a prince who's justdesperately trying to reach me
and instead it was somebody whohad done a a really kind thing,
a really generous thing to, youknow, help people form a family.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
The best thing I ever did in my life was take the risk
of being ostracized or whateverand having her go and against
my, you know, Roman Catholic, Iwent to parochial school, I went
to a Catholic Jesuit college andto say, I can't, this is more
important than that.
And then it turned out so well.
(28:14):
I mean, I just feel so lucky,you know,
Speaker 8 (28:27):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (28:27):
flash forward and Emily is just about to turn 18
and she could go ahead withcontacting her donor.
The ball was always in my court,which I really appreciated.
And also is not often depictedin like films and movies that
show donor contacting.
Yeah, spoiler alert.
We'll talk more about the moviesthat have depicted this type of
(28:48):
family structure in a futureepisode.
Speaker 8 (28:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Emily got all of the paperwork together before her
18th birthday.
She wrote a letter, got itnotarized and sent it away on
her birthday without too manyexpectations of what might
Speaker 2 (29:02):
come back.
My biggest hope is just like,can I know some medical
information about you?
Like that's really what Iwanted.
Baseline and anything else wasjust cherry on top.
Like that'd be great.
Of course Nancy supportedEmily's decision, but she really
didn't know what to expect.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
We didn't know if this was going to be just a
letter with some medicalinformation and maybe he didn't
want to meet directly or maybeit's just one quick meeting, but
he could tell Emily wanted it tobe a little more than that.
She wanted to get to know thisperson and have this person, you
know, maybe not take over herlife by any stretch, but it's
like to be a part of her life.
(29:37):
So it was a lot of anxietieswhen we heading towards that.
At this point, Nancy
Speaker 1 (29:42):
had been co-parenting Emily for about 13 years.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
You'll love your kid and you, yeah.
You don't want to see themdisappointed.
So for her, I'm sure it's, youknow, she's going through the
same thing wondering about allof these things.
And for me, I'm just hoping thatthis is a great guy that will
actually take some time to getto know Emily and behind her
it's just not a letter and um,you have nothing beyond that.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
[inaudible]
Speaker 1 (30:07):
and then a bunch of time passed, it's Christmas Day
and that day the phone rings andit's the doctor from the clinic
and he asked to speak to Emilyat red, the most beautiful
letter.
Yeah.
It was so unexpected to find outand get the confirmation that my
donor was willing to becontacted and to get that on
(30:30):
Christmas Day out of the blue,you know, we got a phone call
and of course we're like, oh,it's on so-and-so or they're
late, you know, they're, maybethey're running late to come
over and just had noexpectation.
And when my mom passed me thephone, it was the doctor just
saying that they finally got theconfirmation from the donor and
he was willing to be contacted.
The Ansi and Cathy were thrilledfor Emily is I get teary
(30:52):
thinking about it because it wasjust like, you know, you don't
want to see kids for it and it'slike it was just beautiful.
It was like the best Christmaspresent she could get.
Emily (31:14):
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
I highly recommend listening tothe whole second season with all
of my families, my big extendedfamilies episodes.
Rashomon is produced and hostedby Hillary Ray and music and the
episode was by Ben Chase andPaul Defiglia.
You can listen to all ofRashomon on your favorite
(31:36):
podcast app or atrashomonpodcast.
com
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