Intersecting Identities

LGBTQ+ families exist at the intersection of many different identities. How can we navigate these many layers in multiracial families? Two LGBTQ+ parents of color, from the south, in multiracial families share their experiences, funny stories, and hope for the future.

Episode Transcript

Emily (00:03):
When I'm recording this, we only just came back from an

(00:25):
amazing week at Family Week inProvincetown, Massachusetts.
Family equality celebrated the25th anniversary of Family Week
with around 600 families fromacross the country and the
world.
Two events that were just areally beautiful celebration of
families and were hugelyattended where spaces for
parents of color and theirchildren and multiracial

(00:47):
families.
And seeing those wonderfulfamilies was a strong testament
to the importance of the storiesand the experiences of families
of color and multiracialfamilies in the LGBTQ+
community.
So to talk with me more aboutsome of those experiences of
being an out LGBTQ parent ofcolor, from the south, and in

(01:10):
multiracial families are NishtaMehra and Tatian Quiroga.

(02:09):
So just to get started, thefirst question I ask in all of
the episodes is who is in yourfamily and how was it formed?

Tatiana (02:20):
As you shared in my bio , I live in Orlando, Florida
with my wife Jen and our twoboys.
That's our immediate family.
We just adopted Guinea pigs,which is a whole new exciting
chapter of parenthood and thefamily experience.

(02:44):
Well, Jen and I have beentogether since 2004.
We got married in 2009 and weembarked on expanding our family
several years ago.
It's a journey that where westarted and where we thought we
were to end were two totallydifferent things.
So my wife actually got pregnantwith both boys through an

(03:05):
unknown donor and they have thesame donor, who is of a South
American descent.
It's been an adventure.

Nishta (03:20):
First of all, I just want to acknowledge what a great
way of framing that question.
I wish we could use that in allof our spaces.
It would just make so much roomfor everybody's family if we
could sort of ask that way.
My immediate family consists ofmy wife, Jill, and Shiv, who
just turned seven.
So Jill and I have been togetherfor 17 years and we were

(03:43):
together a good while and did alot of adventuring before we
decided we wanted to becomeparents.
It was actually not somethingthat Jill was planning on when
we first got together.
She had sort of thought that shewasn't going to be a parent and
I have always known that Iwanted to be a parent.
So part of the adventure for uswas to figure out what that

(04:07):
might look like.
And what we came to was thatJill really felt a strong pull
toward adoption.
And so that became the way thatwe sought to add a child to our
family.
And that process itself was ajourney.
Just as Tati was saying, there'slots of ups and downs being a

(04:27):
same-sex couple.
This was in 2012 that Shiv wasborn.
We could not be legally marriedin the state where we were
living at the time.
So we were very lucky to find awonderful private adoption
agency that was committed toserving same-sex couples.
And so we had a lot of dignityin that experience.
Shiv's birth mother chose us tobe Shiv's parents, which is

(04:51):
still like the most incrediblething that's ever happened to
me.
And we were able to meet her andwe were able to be in the room
when Shiv was born and it wassuch an incredible, a life
alternating experience.
So Shiv's birth mother isobviously a part of our family
forever, even though we are notin contact with her as, as per
her choice.

(05:11):
Shiv was born male and has beenexpressing female gender
identity for most of her lifeand about a year ago switched
pronouns and now uses thisfemale pronouns.
So I think the queerness of ourfamily has only been compounded
and expanded by parenting thiskid who's taught me so much of

(05:31):
what it means to advocate foryour true self expression.
We're definitely on a journeywith her.

Emily (05:38):
Youth both have a lot in common.
To start, you're both people ofcolor with a white spouse,
raising children of color.
With that in mind, what are someof the things that surprised you

(06:02):
about becoming a parent?

(06:33):
How have you talked about yourfamily's identities with your
kids?

Nishta (06:38):
To that question about what has been surprising, I mean
I think there are so many levelsto that.
How we're maybe surprisedpersonally and how much you
learn about yourself becoming aparent, which I think is true of
any sort of life challenge.
There's this idea in the culturethat only if you become a parent

(07:01):
can you access this knowledge.
And I really pushed back againstthat.
I don't necessarily think that'strue, but I do think that
becoming a parent brings up somestuff that you have to deal with
that you might otherwise havepushed to the side or not
necessarily want to look at.
Anything that has to do withyour own childhood that's not

(07:22):
complete.
Or the differences in how youwere raised and how your spouse
was raised or some of thosethings are just really
ingrained.
I think in ways that can gounexamined, until it's time to
make a decision about how you'regoing to parent your own kids.
And I know for us, that justgets complicated by the fact

(07:43):
that we are from very differentbackgrounds.
There's a class difference formy wife and myself.
She was raised in a very bluecollar working class family and
my family was very comfortablymiddle class.
So there's lots of valuesingrained there for one.
And then race obviously is afactor too.
I think one thing that surprisedme the most is how much having a

(08:07):
kid, particularly a kid of color, we have a black child we're
parents have a black child inAmerica, and there are
conversations that we never hadto the same extent about what it
means for Jill to be white andme not to be white that we have
had in relationship to Shivmoving around in the world.

(08:28):
And there are things that werenot necessarily as fully
examined for Jill in terms ofwhiteness and just small coded
things.
Like when she'll push back inpublic or the ways that she
feels safe to speak in publicthat I would never.

(08:49):
And my concerns are about whatShiv is paying attention to and
what she's going to feel isacceptable or okay.
What is safe for her is verydifferent.
And I think that has surprisedme more than anything.
Just the fact that having awhite person in our family

(09:09):
sometimes feels like a tool thatwe can leverage.
It's nice sometimes for Shiv andI to be walking around with a
white lady and not just to beus.
It's different when it's just meand Shiv.
But then it's also sometimestricky because it's different
when it's just me and Shiv andit's different to have a white

(09:29):
person in our family with all ofthe complications that comes
with.
I think for me that's been thebiggest surprise.

Tatiana (09:37):
I can piggyback on that because there's been examples
where Jen is navigating asituation much differently
because of white privilege.
She's able to navigatesituations and places much
differently than I am.
For instance, our three year oldgoes to a daycare and the

(09:58):
diversity is very lacking.
I'm the one usually who doesdrop offs and I come to her and
I'm like, yeah, I don't reallyfind people very friendly.
They were okay.
You know, I think he likes itand it works for us.
But she walks in and they knowher name and they're like
excited to see her.
And it's a very, very differentexperience.

(10:20):
Navigating those situations withalmost that white ambassador
sometimes can be drasticlydifferent.
And, you think, what are ourkids seeing?
You try to figure out what arethey seeing and how to have
these conversations in ways thatare going to be understandable

(10:43):
for them.
And being able to balance allthat I think is one of the
biggest things that I wassurprised by.

Emily (10:48):
Something that has come up in previous episodes and I
also see discussed a lot online,is people asking our LGBTQ+
families questions all the time.
And sometimes they feel reallyintrusive and inappropriate and
they're coming from a place thatis not of kindness and often
they're coming from a place ofkindness.

(11:10):
It's really interesting that theidea of how the world reacts to
your family as a unit of threeversus your family when it's a
unit of two.
So I'm curious- those questionsand some of those reactions- how
do they differ when you'renavigating as three versus

(11:31):
one-on-one with your kiddo?

Nishta (11:34):
Yeah, it's kind of fascinating.
I feel like we have had theopportunity to notice many
layers and shades of dynamicsthat are a microcosm of bigger
conversations because we have awhite parent, a non-white
parent, a black child who'sgender expression has changed

(11:58):
over time.
So there's a difference even inhow people responded to us as
units of two or three when Shivexpressed as male and then how
people respond to us in units oftwo or three now that Shiv
expresses this female.
So it's fascinating.
I will say that our default hasbeen in general to try to follow

(12:22):
Shiv's lead.
Hopefully if we can make surethat there's open communication
Shiv will let us know what she'snoticing, what she has questions
about.
And then you kind of have topick your battles because you're
also trying to pack lunch andget to daycare on time and just
parent your kid.
So, you got to figure out whatis the hill I'm gonna die on?

(12:45):
Like gender roles in Disneymovies.
Okay, I'm going to let you watchthem, but we're going to talk
about how you don't marrysomeone or like give your bottom
half of your body for someoneyou think is cute from afar.
Okay.
But you can still watch themovie, fine.
But if someone says something inpublic that we feel like it

(13:07):
really crosses a boundary line,then we're going to interfere or
we're going to talk through it.
And again, mostly Shiv isinitiating those conversations
or asking questions and we tryto just follow her lead.
You can usually tell if someoneis just being curious, if
they're coming maybe from a wellmeaning but maybe misguided

(13:31):
place.
But then there are times whenit's usually pretty clear when
someone is not coming at youwith gentle curiosity.
And then it's like, okay, no,we're not doing this and you're
definitely not doing it in frontof my kid.
And if you're going to do it,then I'm gonna counter program
with my child because that'swhere it really matters.
To stand up for what we believein, what we value and

(13:54):
demonstrate in ways that feelsafe.
Obviously for some families insome situations it's not safe to
push back at people in public.
And that sucks that we're stillin a place like that in 2019 but
it's very true for a lot ofpeople and I think feels more
and more scary as we watchwhat's happening around us.
That feeling of maybe Ishouldn't push back, but I'm

(14:15):
going to have this conversationin our family unit.

Tatiana (14:18):
I'd like to echo that.
It definitely is a dance for ustoo.
Jen and I didn't really know anyother LGBTQ couples that were
having kids at the time that wewere, we didn't really know any
other families.
So lots of times we weretokenized in a way and we knew
that.
We wanted to come from a pointof education, which is kind of

(14:42):
how we've approached things.
Like Nishta said, there's timeswhere, especially being of
color, you find yourself in therole of representing all of your
people.
Suddenly you're supposed to knowall these things about
everybody.
And on top of that, I've noticedwith just moving around in our
community, we are a little bitunder like a microscope.

(15:05):
People at stores, like clerksand stuff, remember us more than
they probably would anotherfamily because they've sat there
and tried to figure us out.
But we've been at Costco beforeand this little old lady walks
over and goes, oh my gosh, theboys are getting so big! I'm
like, I'm pretty sure I've neverspoken to you before.
But clearly you watch us throughour grocery shopping at Costco.

(15:30):
You've been watching my familygrow and she comes over with the
best of intentions.
But it's just interesting to seethat we obviously do stand out
and how we're able to navigatethat.

Emily (15:43):
How do you prepare for moments like those that you're
describing or thoseconversations that you're having
with your kids, especially asthey get older and more aware?
Has talking with other LGBTQparents and in particular LGBTQ
parents of color, had an impacton the way that you navigate
those conversations or preparefor what's to come as as your

(16:04):
kids get older?

Speaker 3 (16:05):
It's funny that you ask how did that all come about?
Because that's literally what Ido for Family Equality now.
We found a parent group andthrough this local parent group
is really where we've found ourchosen family.
And we've created incrediblefriendships and connections.

(16:27):
We make sure that our kids arealways able to have families
that look like theirs around.
But it's challenging becauseonce again, our families are so
diverse.
So what may work for me may notalways work for someone else
just because of the makeup ofthe families.

(16:47):
Like Nishta and I have a verysimilar backgrounds and
upbringing and stuff, but ourfamilies look very different and
her experiences are going to bevery different than mine.
So it's hard to say like there'sa specific rule or best
practices even.
But you know, just remindingparents that it's always going

(17:08):
to be a journey.
Parenthood in a way is such anunknown journey.
And just when you say, I'vecrossed all the t's and dotted
the i's, just kidding your kiddothrows something else at you.
You know, all these other thingscome about that sometimes even

(17:29):
the LGBTQ+ background stuff kindof goes to the side and you're
just dealing with regular parentstuff.
If I've shared, my oldest is onthe spectrum.
And so lots of times our focusis just being parents of a
special needs kid trying to getby.
And that's really where a lot ofour focus ends up being in
navigating that world withdirect providers coming into our

(17:52):
home and dealing with that andhoping that they're okay having
a two mom home.
And what does that look likewith sitting in IEP meetings and
making sure that forms haveparent one or parent two, or
guardian one and guardian two.
Things like that.
And that we're both seen asequal parents and those kinds of
things.
So it's really hard to say bestpractices in that.

(18:16):
It's really always an ongoingjourney.
Like I said, just when youthought you figured it out, your
kiddo comes back and goes, nope,there's something new on the
platter.

Emily (18:26):
So we've touched upon this a little bit, but you both
also share an immigrantexperience in your families.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that?
Then also what are some of thethings that you're excited to be
sharing and passing onto yourkids from your experience or

(18:48):
cultures?

Nishta (18:50):
I feel like it is a really distinct experience even
across cultures.
I'm first generation, I was bornhere, my parents came to the
states before I was born.
Being either someone who camehere as a child and straddled
cultures, or someone who wasborn here as first gen, is a
really distinct experience.

(19:11):
And then becoming a parent justintensifies that for me.
The pride, the longing, thesense of loss, the sense of
despair.
It just makes it all more.
I have an even greater anddeeper respect for my own
parents.
Becoming a parent and thinkingabout what it means to try to

(19:32):
create a life for your childthat you think will be what's
best for them, while alsodesperately wanting to pass on
things that are meaningful toyou and knowing that's kind of a
crap shoot on some level.
My identity as an IndianAmerican woman is super

(19:52):
important to me and my culturehas always been a huge
touchstone for me.
But Shiv is a distinct personand also has a distinct
experience as a black Americanand she has her own identity
that will be hers to navigateand figure out.
It's not something that I candirectly relate to and I'm like

(20:13):
really clear about that.
It's really important for me togive her space, to need and want
what she may need and want.
Just like my parents had to dothat with me.
They didn't know what it waslike to be a first generation
kid growing up in America.
They had limited tools and theydid the best that they could.
I'm really lucky that they didgive me that space.
They were really clear about howthese things are important to us

(20:36):
and while you're a kid we'regoing to ask you to participate
in these things.
And then as you get older we'regonna let you choose them.
And they did.
They gave me a lot of room and Iuse that much as my own framing
for Shiv.
Right.
We celebrate and do holidays.
We read the stories and we talkabout what we believe, but we

(20:59):
also talk about what otherpeople believe.
It's important for us to exposeShiv to lots of different things
and to know that it's ultimatelyup to her to choose what feels
authentic to her and that wewill be guideposts for her.
And like Tati was saying, havinga child with special needs sort
of sometimes takes the frontseat.

(21:20):
And for us sometimes Shiv'sblackness takes the front seat.
In terms of what we're trying toexpose her to and diversity and
things like that.
Sometimes we do have to put herseeing people who look like her
in front of us being aroundother families who look like our
family.
And so it is that navigating anddeciding what you feel like your

(21:41):
family or your kid needs at anygiven moment.

Tatiana (21:45):
As you guys know, I was born in Bolivia.
We came over to the States whenI was about two or three years
old and my dad was a collegestudent.
I can really relate to myparents more and having a
totally different appreciationwhen you become a parent.
Because now I look back and I'mlike, oh my God, I can't imagine

(22:08):
not speaking the language andcoming to America and making
this better life as two youngkids, for the lack of better
terms, for my dad to finishcollege with a two year old.
With the economy that fell onthe late eighties, we moved to
Spartanburg, South Carolina.

(22:29):
So, so it was a very drasticchange there.
And so that's where I did a lotof my growing up.
Being in the south and not justnavigating the home culture of
being Latina and hearing abouthow things are in the homeland
that really wasn't mine either.

(22:50):
Because we left when I was two.
Navigating this very white worldthat my parents tried to
assimilate as much as possible.
As Nishta was saying, as aparent now I'm trying to pick
and choose what to pass on.
Something that I battle with isthe fact that their donor isn't
necessarily from Bolivia.

(23:11):
As a non bio parent, I'm tryingto pass on their background,
which is my background, andtrying to pass that on to the
kids.
But that's not necessarily theirbiological background.
And so it is a reallyinteresting balance to be able
to do that.
And my parents are very big partof our family and they literally

(23:33):
live a block away.
It's interesting for them towrap their minds around some of
the things that we're choosingto do as parents because Jen's
in the picture.
I mean even the guinea pigs, myparents, are like why would you
bring in rodents into your homeand let them live in your living
room?
Well,"that's what you do as akid", meaning American culture

(23:59):
or it's a very standard thing tohave these pets.
It's definitely something thathas been a surprise for me in
that way to see how all thatends up playing out.

Nishta (24:13):
Part of what can make this challenging are two things
that you just pointed to Tati.
One is this question you weretalking about your child's
donor.
There are lots of families likeours, both LGBTQ and and non
that are doing this sort ofmashing up of cultures.
And it raises all thesequestions about who counts and

(24:35):
how in American culture there'sthis idea that got to pick one
thing that you are.
I think about it a lot when Shivis older.
Are people gonna be like, whatare you, why are you celebrating
Diwali?
The other thing that I think itpoints to, and certainly as a
child of immigrants, is that wereally do have a monolithic

(24:57):
understanding of minorityidentities.
Either there's one way to beblack, there's one way to be
Indian, there's one way to beLatino.
So as a kid you're scramblingaround trying to feel like, I
want to be true to my culturethat is sort of mine, but not
mine.
But this doesn't feel authenticto me.

(25:18):
So all these stereotypes areproblematic.
And then, it's the same sort ofthing with your kids.
There are so many ways that itmight look for Shiv to express
her blackness or being part of amixed race family that's also
multi-religious andmulti-lingual.
I feel really excited about theidea of all these kids growing

(25:46):
up and exploding these notionsabout identity and culture.
It's like, go mess some stuff upout there.
I love that people aren't goingto know what to do with our kids
and I hope that we can equipthem to feel totally confident
in their own senses of identity.

Emily (26:04):
Tati you've led workshops on being a parent of color in a
multiracial family.
And Nishta, you have a wholebook that you wrote about it-

Brown, White, Black (26:14):
An American family at the intersection of
race, gender, sexuality, andreligion.
Why is it important for both ofyou to talk about identities and
these intersections?

Nishta (26:29):
I think it's important for some of the reasons we have
pointed to, just because I thinkstill structurally, our society
is set up for one kind offamily.
Even if you know intellectuallyand experientially that families
look many different ways, allkinds of configurations of our

(26:52):
systems and our institutions arevery slow to change to catch up.
So I think these conversationsare important because they
restore that sense of rightness.
And I don't mean right likeright and wrong, but just
wholeness and completion.
That there is nothing less thanor missing about any particular

(27:15):
family.
But it's hard to hold onto thatwhen you have to cross something
out on a form and writesomething else in, or when you
have to interrupt someone who'smade an assumption about what
kind of spouse you have.

(27:36):
I think mostly people do meanwell.
But when you're on the receivingend of those kinds of things day
in and day out, it does becomeexhausting.
And it can be really weird andit can feel like where is the
space where we fit?
So I think the conversations areimportant for the people having
them just to feel a sense ofrelief and a reminder that our

(27:59):
families exist and are perfectthe way that they are and that
there's community.
Like Tati was talking about,creating community is really
important.
In terms of having written thebook, I hear from two distinct
categories of people.
I hear from folks like Tati, whohave experiences like mine who

(28:22):
have not really gotten to read abook that capture those
experiences before.
Which is super gratifying as anauthor.
There's nothing better than toimagine that someone was able to
see themselves in what you'vewritten in a way that it felt
good to them.
There's the second category offolks who are folks who don't
necessarily relate or seethemselves but who feel like

(28:43):
they have learned things thatthey hadn't thought about
before.
And that is also reallygratifying because I do think
that it's easy if you are notnecessarily pushed or life has
not given you an occasion tothink about those systems and
institutions that you take forgranted because you fit inside
of them, to never realize thatother people do not fit inside
of them.
And to realize all the differentways that those systems and

(29:06):
institutions can do harm.
I think having the conversationsare also important because
there's some people just don'tknow or haven't thought about
it.
I'll give you an example.
A good friend of mine is anemployment attorney for a major
food service company.
And her experience being AuntMegan to Shiv mover her to have

(29:27):
a conversation when they weredeveloping a new online tool for
their employees to push to havea drop down menu that includes a
gender nonconforming/non-binarychoice.
It's not just going to say maleor female.
And she advocated for that ather place of work, which is a
huge ripple effect that oneperson made by having a real

(29:48):
lived experience with a familyand people she loves.
That's then going to make adifference for other people.
And I think that that for me isa big part of why it's important
to have these conversations.
Also one because it's justreally nice for me, hopefully
for Tati too, to do this.
But also that it could open upor access things for folks who

(30:12):
find themselves in positionswhere they can think about how
they could leverage theirprivilege for some good now that
they've learned something orthought about something
differently.

Tatiana (30:21):
I fully agree with that.
And I think that for me it's soimportant because despite being
part of several marginalizedcommunities, I still have some
power and privilege.
And so it is my responsibilityto not only acknowledge this
power and privilege, but be ableto, like Nishta said, leverage

(30:41):
it for good and being able touse the platforms that I do have
and give voice.
And hopefully we are able tomove that movable middle, change
hearts and minds, and validateexperiences from those who
aren't able to do so.
And hopefully educate somepeople along the way too, not to

(31:06):
sound cheesy and corny, but tomake things better for our kids.
Just like our parents did forus.
They sacrificed everything theycould to make a better life for
us and now we do the same thingfor our own kids.
If we can at least make thislittle corner a little bit
better, then hopefully that willhave a ripple effect.