Filmmaker Carolyn McDonald on Producing Legends and Shaping Futures

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
It's time for OWC Radio,
tech talk with creatives,
conversations with host Serena Catania.
Carolyn McDonald is a filmmaker,
producer,
writer, and instructor
who partnered with Danny Glover at Cary productions.
She executive produced HBO's American's Dream and TNT's

(00:23):
Buffalo Soldiers as well as Freedom Song.
Carolyn and I deeply resonated
not just because of the Carey connection,
but also because of her dedication to empowering
and teaching
the younger generation.
She has taught in Nashville at the Watkins
Film School, in New York at the Independent

(00:44):
Film Project,
in LA with the Black TV and Film
Collective, and many others.
Carolyn is currently a screenwriting instructor at the
New York Film Academy.
Welcome, Carolyn.
Hi. Hi.
I cannot believe
that you and I have had six degrees

(01:05):
of separation for so many years, and we're
finally just now meeting in person. I know.
I know. It is amazing. It is amazing.
Or one degree. You know? It's only been
one and two degrees, not even six. Yeah.
One degree. You're right. It's, but it's so
nice. Thank you for taking the time to
do this. And
I really love working with

(01:25):
intelligent, beautiful,
strong,
giving,
purposeful women. This is gonna be fun. And
everybody listening and pay attention
because I'm sure you're gonna learn a lot
about not just filmmaking
and about having a wonderful purpose and about
creativity,
but also about life. So
let's start though with

(01:46):
take me
all the way back
to Carolyn as a young girl. Where were
you, and what was life like, and what
did you love to do? Oh my goodness.
Well, I was born
on a farm in North Carolina, Wade, North
Carolina. Shout out to my little Wade. I
grew up on a farm and did everything

(02:06):
a rural kid would do, in the sixties.
I I'm a child of the sixties and
seventies
and, you know, riding my bike.
We had so many chores, though. You know?
We it was a working farm. It wasn't
a big farm. We didn't farm out stuff,
but it was a working functional farm, you
know, which a lot of, especially, black Americans,
you know, had their own sustenance. We sustained

(02:27):
ourselves from farms. So it was corn.
I literally did not have a store bought
vegetable till I moved to New York when
I was 14. And,
growing up on a farm, you know, you
learn a lot about life processes
and and and discipline. You know? You learn
about seasons, and
these things are kind of embedded in you
from from the, you know, the time,

(02:49):
you're born. And and that's my case, you
know, where, you know, every
day after school was working in the garden
during seasons. You know, whether if it was
spring, you were planting and watering. If it
was fall, you were shelling peas. If it
was summer, you're the plums. You're making me
smell the plums, you know, because we had
all these plum trees and, you know, every
vegetable in the garden, you know, from cabbages

(03:11):
to watermelons
to cantaloupes to melons. You know, if I
walk when I walk in the Starbucks, sometimes
it pisses me off to see, like, a
eight dollar melon when I used to grow
them, and we used to have them,
you know, all the time. But, yeah. I'm
I'm a I'm a Carolina farm girl.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Did you come from a big family? Do
you have siblings, or what was that? I

(03:33):
had a brother, you know, who's six years
younger than me, you know, but I was
raised by my great grandparents,
you know, mainly. And,
until they passed away is, you know, where
I lived on the farm. And I have
to give a shout out to my great
grandmother, Martha. There's not a day that,
goes by that I don't think of her
because, you know, she was just an amazing

(03:53):
human being. You know, you talk about strong
and
and purposeful, and and she was a seamstress.
She was a master seamstress, and I can
only imagine what she would have done were
at a different time, you know, in the
world and just her her skills and and
and her value system, you know, was was
just amazing too. You know? She she I

(04:14):
remember there's a story. I I just constantly
remember there was one of her friends came
over the house one day, and she says,
you know, if you come here to gossip
about people, you can leave because I don't
wanna be I don't wanna be gossiping about
anybody. And that's just kind of how she
rolled. She was, you know, very, you know,
about
the truth and spending time wisely. And and

(04:35):
it wasn't like she walked around preaching this
stuff. It's just the way she did. You
know? And and, again, being a little kid
and
around that, you know, was was so nurturing,
and and she was very supportive of me
and me trying to make things, you know,
whether it was skates. You know? She would,
like, help me with different things like that.
So I don't remember her or even the

(04:55):
environment ever telling me I couldn't do something.
You know? And so you always think that
you can. I mean, I always, you know,
you can do it. Just, you know, get
what are the materials? Again, going back to
being a seamstress, it's like, what materials do
you need? What actions do you need to
take? So it's kind of the principles, you
know, growing up with that.
You know, it's funny you mentioned seamstress because

(05:15):
yesterday,
I was looking at my sewing machine,
and I looked at it and I had
this moment where I said to myself,
what happened to those days
when you would just love to go
to the Singer sewing machine store and pick
out the exact right color of thread
for something that you were making
or something that you needed to mend? It's

(05:36):
it's everything's so different. Now we just we
drive down the street
to the seamstress and let them do it.
I kinda miss that. I miss the pattern
because I'm back into we can talk about
it later when I get to my art
stuff. I'm a friend of Joanne's, you know,
that store. You know, I love that store.
Joanne's and and the yarns, you know, Lion

(05:57):
yarn, but we can talk about that later.
So No. It's fine. It's fine. We don't
have a script. We're just talking.
I just wanted everybody to meet you because
you're you're amazing. We have a mutual friend,
Karen, who introduced us. Karen is amazing too.
Yes. Yes. It's just
it's funny that you were you still at
Kerry when mister g was in South Africa

(06:19):
with the United Nations?
I don't think so.
Okay. That's probably why. Yeah. You because you
went with him. You were doing a documentary
on him, or you were documenting the trip?
I was shooting. Been shooting the trip. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That was an amazing trip. He was
meeting
with all of the small villages because
back
then, the young men thought

(06:41):
that if you slept with a virgin, you
could be cured of AIDS. Oh my god.
Wow. And so he and Dikembe Mutombo
and Nadine Gordimer
were traveling through South Africa. We went to
a lot of the villages
to tell them, no. That's not how it
works,
because they were losing an entire generation. Mister
g's done some amazing work. But let's go

(07:02):
back to you. I wanna know
how you got started taking the creativity that
you had and moving into the film and
television world. How did that segue happen?
I actually started out acting, believe it or
not. It was just, again, back to being
on the farm and, you know, being in
a rural area. You know, you had the
church. You had we had this really cool

(07:23):
arts,
center that was just this little hut in
the middle of a field.
So there was plays. There was films. You
know, always watching TV, always watching movies. They
used to show us movies there.
And in the church, you know, there was
all kinds of plays, you know, that and,
you know, the Easter play, the Christmas play,
and all that. You know? So when I
moved to New York, I brought all that
with me. I'm still you know, just watching

(07:44):
TV, like, people on TV, like, Diahann Carroll.
Oh my god.
Diana Ross. You know? Just, like, people that
I would watch, and I would always act
out the thing. Barbra Streisand, you know? And
I'd watch them on TV, and I'd go
act it out, you know, the next day.
And so when I got to New York,
I did the same thing. I did the
musical theaters in high school. You know, I
did the me nobody knows damn Yankees, and

(08:06):
so I auditioned for SUNY Purchase, but I
didn't get in.
And I decided to go anyway
to liberal arts because I my grades, thank
god, were good enough to get into the
liberal arts program. So I ended up going
to SUNY Purchase. And, of course, as everyone
knows, it's like a stellar, you know, conservatory
for actors. And if you came in, you
had first dibs to to audition for the

(08:28):
acting program if you were at the school
so you could audition before outsiders.
But, anyway, when I got in there, I
didn't really want to act anymore. And it
wasn't so much that I kept it, you
know, let's fess up, tell the truth. I
had horrible stage fright, and that's why I
didn't get into SUNY Purchase. I froze, like,
honestly, I think this is the worst time
I'm ever saying this publicly is that, you
know, I could do scenes in the thing

(08:50):
in the play or whatever, but I if
I had to audition and kinda prove myself,
I realized I was competing for something. It's
like I would freeze up and shut down.
So when I got into purchase,
I started writing and, you know, taking all
these different kinds of writing classes. I lit.
I had, you know, creative writing, and, you
know, I discovered the screenplay. My I had

(09:10):
a friend of mine from high school, Clarence
Gilbert, who's not with us any longer,
and he told me what a screenplay was,
you know, and that there were people that
wrote these things, people that just didn't make
up what they were saying on these TV
shows, movies. And so I became fascinated with
that and started to go to the library
and read, like, books of James Agee screenplays

(09:31):
and things I was already reading, Ntozake Shange,
For Colored Girls, and things like that, but
also Amara Baraka, you know, other, you know,
playwrights, but to read screenplays and know, like,
wow. So when I was at purchase, that's
when I really developed a love
for writing for film and watching films, you
know, with that in mind, what people were
saying. And so I applied to NYU film

(09:52):
school, their first year at dramatic writing, got
accepted into the, NYU's,
dramatic writing program. And you're still a teenager
then. Right? Yeah. I was 20 19, 20
years 20 years old then. How
the whole world's in front of you when
you're 20, and
you feel like you could just do anything.
Right? It's kind of exciting. Right. It is

(10:13):
exciting. And even I'll just go back for
a minute. Before I left SUNY Purchase, remember
the work study? I don't even know if
there's still work study, you know, but I
had the coolest work study jobs. My work
study job at SUNY Purchase was working in
the media center, and that was remember there
was slide projectors and with the art classes,
so I would cart the slide projectors around,

(10:34):
you know, the campus and set up for
the art students or the science students that
were looking at stuff, but also because I
worked in there, I had access to cameras.
So I, being I was a devotee of
Rod Serling and Twilight Zone, so and there's
so many layers. That man was a genius
because it was like, it's not really about
aliens. It's really not never about aliens. It

(10:55):
says it's aliens, but it's never about aliens.
And he just was such a courageous guy
to do so many things.
So I decided to make some short films.
I made these three short films,
and I wrote them. You know? I had
not been to film school yet. I just
took it upon myself. You know? I knew
the format, all that, and the acting program
at SUNY Purchase. I've got access to actors.

(11:16):
So I made these little short films. I
adopted adapted Roald Dahl's Leg of Lam, and
I adapted the short story. I found the
short story for 04:00, which was an episode
of Twilight Zone. I had seen and I
shot them, and, you know, those are my
first short films, but I didn't know I
didn't know what I was doing, but I
knew what I was doing. You know? Like
you said, you just can do anything. And

(11:36):
then I did this little doc about being
working at the media center and all the
things it did around campus. So and that
was kind of the way I think, if
I remember correctly, how I got to do
that. It's like, we'll give you the cameras
to do your thing if you do something
for us or, you know, something like that.
So, you know, that's, where it was my
were my first productions, film productions. Oh, that's

(11:57):
pre do you still have the tapes?
Oh, god. They were three quarter inch. I
don't know. Oh, no. That was so long
ago. I I still got lost along the
way somewhere. I wish. I wish. Yeah. Wouldn't
it be fun to find them? Yeah. And
also, I started that's where I started doing
still for well, they didn't start doing still
photography there. I took a class to learn
how to develop still photography. I started shooting

(12:18):
stills when I was a kid, when I
was like seven years old, you know, and
then got my own 35 when I was
in, like, senior year. And so when I
got to purchase, I really kinda upped my
still game, you know, which I guess, landed
itself to filmmaking, and and I wasn't one
of those people, and I guess maybe this
is a statement about being a black girl
in America in the eighties, you know, from

(12:39):
what I knew in my experience was it's
like I wasn't like I had a father
or aunt or uncle or anybody that was
in the industry.
You know, I kinda just went out there
and just did these things that I love
doing. And and I think now is a
similar thing because you got the iPhone that
you can just go out and start shooting
and teach yourself from watching, you know, film.

(13:01):
Quentin Tarantino certainly has made a big career
on, you know, talking about the you know,
watching movies and learning from movies, and it's
evident in his films as well. So So
what kind of still photography did you like
doing back then? Portraits,
street, I would say? Yeah. Mainly portrait and
street, you know, mainly portrait, especially when I
was little, you know, when I was, you

(13:22):
know, like I said, seven, eight, you know,
was running around stalking my great grandparents and
my parents and anybody. I would just stalk
people, you know, the cats,
You know? Grateful to my mother for that.
I went home one day, god, probably in
eighties or something,
and, she hands me this big garbage bag
with with photos in it. And I look

(13:42):
at it. I had not seen these things
in twenty years, easily twenty year. No. No.
Maybe seven yeah. Maybe twenty years. She hands
me this bag, and I look in it,
and I'm like, oh my god. These are
all these photos. And I had I mean,
I had Kodak,
Polaroid,
you know, just a garbage bag of photos,
35 from my Pentax,

(14:03):
you know, and I started going through it.
It was interesting because
I hadn't seen them in so long, you
know, and that by this time, I think
I was past NYU. I might have been
working at Cinecom or maybe even out here
working running Cary that I was looking at
them very objectively. And so I was like,
wow. These are pretty cool.
And it was you know, and I started

(14:24):
putting them in albums. And then when we
got scanners, remember, we've been through this whole
digital era, you know, from no digital nothing
to everything we have. So, when the scanner
came along, I ended up scanning,
you know, just about everything. And so, yeah,
I do have a lot of those photos
from when I yes. Yeah. That's your life
in that bag.

(14:45):
Yeah. That's your whole life, your family,
your heritage.
Your life is was in that bag. Your
mom my mom did the same thing. When
she passed away,
she had an entire closet
full of boxes,
all kind of organized by the era and
who was in it. Box and box and

(15:06):
box of the prints because she used to
love to do it. Yeah. And it is
your heritage. It is really, you know, your
your your your history. You know what I
mean? But again before there was ancestry.com,
and, I mean, and and and I don't
know if ancestry what photographs or images. I
I just haven't been on it lately. But,
yeah, it is. In fact, my first photo
show I did,

(15:27):
my project Nouns in the Road, which is
an ongoing thing. We did it at, I
was invited down to the Gantt Center in
Charlotte to do an exhibit. They gave me
the whole room. I'm so grateful because I
was from North Carolina,
you know, too. And the biggest compliment I
got was
somebody that said, I feel like I'm walking
through my family album,

(15:47):
you know, the way that this is curated,
you know, and and that's what, you know,
legacy, heritage.
You get to see the expression on your
your cousins, uncles, aunts, great aunts, you know.
It's like I have this one picture of
my uncle Jack, you know, who was a
character. He was such a character, but and
and this photo I captured of him captures
his character

(16:08):
character ness. And the clothes they're wearing. And
the clothes. And the environment.
Yes, the environment,
you know? Absolutely. Absolutely.
It's actually this picture I have of
me. I think I was about 10.
And my great grandfather
and my uncle Jack, and we're sitting on
this big log out in the yard. And

(16:28):
I remember
that, you know, because, you know, these are
southern cats. They, you know, drank the was
it Johnny Walker or beers or whatever? And
so they, this is like a late afternoon,
so they were having their sips and stuff.
And so I was like, Oh, you gotta
take a picture with me. And I remember
we were about to shoot the picture, and
I said, Stop.
I want you to hold the beer, and

(16:50):
I want you to hold.
There you go. Your first directing jacket. No,
no. And I looked at it later on.
I was like, Wow, that was like a
was that like early art directing? You know,
I kinda, like, decided I wanted to do
but I wanted to capture their characters. That
was the thing. I was was aware. And
I, like I said, I was about 10,
and I wanted, you know, to you know,

(17:10):
you you daddy, you always drink, you know,
the Johnny Walker. And uncle Jack, you always
drink the PAPs. So I want y'all to
represent. So
That those are gifts that we are given
from a much higher power
that
travel with us through our lives. And if
we're lucky enough to believe in ourselves and
keep doing what we feel like we want

(17:32):
to do, then I think we're all blessed
with it. It's so true. It's so true.
And it's hard to stay true to that
sometimes. I mean, I I was just telling
a girlfriend of mine this morning that I
finally feel comfortable in my own skin
with doing all these things. Because,
again, you know, you you especially
back to not growing up having anybody in

(17:54):
entertainment or film, certainly. And you got a
job at the post office that was like
rock stardom. You know what I mean? Like,
you became a teacher. Oh, my goodness. That
was like the Oscar. And I remember distinctly
the period or the distinction
between
being a blue collar worker in factory or
farm and getting a job in an office

(18:14):
by learning how to type
and just the skill of learning how to
type, how important that was and how that
really determined your destiny,
you know, back then in a way, especially
for women, especially for women. That was a
big, big deal, you know, typing class. Typing
and shorthand. They taught Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes

(18:45):
grandparents on my mother's side,
my grandfather was a coal miner,
and my grandmother had a had restaurants, small
cafes. She was a businesswoman.
And on my father's side, they were longshoremen
and truck drivers. And so
I've I'm very proud of that. Me too.

(19:05):
Me
too. Me too. Me too. Me too. And
it's I'm so proud of it. Proud of
it. I really, really am, you know, because
especially in the arts, you know, whether it
is photography
or fine art or film, muse you know,
especially film I say film, music, fine art
because those are environments or or communities where
people are very learned, quote unquote, but I

(19:27):
think, to me, the underdogs are us that,
you know, either self taught or certainly come
from backgrounds
that weren't, you know, didn't have that. You
know? And I'm I'm I'm big, and I
think that, you know, it lends us to
your work. You know? It it really you
know, it's like if you're you know, whatever
background
you come from, I mean, it's great. Needless

(19:48):
to say, there's you can draw from all
of that, but, you know, it's like I'm
biased about southern writers. I mean, it's like
we have so much to write about. You
know? It's like,
you know, so and I'm very a stickler
when I see a film, and I can
tell you don't know what the South is.
You're just dipped in the South. What did
you just come down there at prep? Oh

(20:09):
my god. You know? And so
so yeah. But I think you and I
both been very lucky in that with what
we've done, we've experienced
what some people call the high end of
life and then the blue collar and the
very wealthy and the
international.
And I think that makes us better creatives
because we understand people. And,

(20:32):
you know, when you're slicing up life, you
have to have lived it. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
And you have to and and to approach
it too, you have to know how to
meet person to person,
you know, rather than coming in. I see
difference between a tourist and a traveler.
You know? It's like if you're a tourist,
you're gonna go in looking around and,
I'm this, but but if you're a traveler

(20:54):
like Bourdain, you're in the trenches. You're traveling.
You're listening. You're wanting to understand culture. You're
wanting to, you know, with respect, the highest
respect, and finding the kindredness between people. You
know?
Amazing man. He was an amazing man. So
did you have a lot of people telling
you, no. You can't do this as you're
as you're going you know, you wanna move

(21:15):
to New York. What did your family say?
That came about in a very
interesting
way, and and it just you know, I
moved to New York when my great grandparents
passed away
to live with my mother. My mother had
already gone to New York, so I was
14 when my great grandparents died. So I
moved in, to my with my mom, and

(21:36):
so
I have to be very honest. My brother
will probably listen to this, but he knows
I'm gonna tell the truth. It was just
very hard after my great grandmother died because,
like I just said, she was my a
nurturer of my art. And when she passed
away, I felt like there was really nobody.
She passed away when I was 12. Along

(21:57):
with that,
it my kind of
my Obi Wan, you know, died. You know?
And,
I struggled for a long time, you know,
not having that. You know? And and I
was just talking to someone
in the last couple months about you know?
There's another thing too along with the blue

(22:17):
collar thing. I have several friends of mine
that lost their parents parent figure when they
were kids
and
nine years old or six years old or
12, but something about 12, 13 when you're
right at that transition
of life of finding your voice and really,
you know, 12, 13, that's a big deal
right in there, you know, that it yeah.

(22:39):
You know? So it's a big deal to
find yourself
as a kid
and having no one, and you have to
grow up really fast and figure it out
for yourself.
And so if you're just trying to survive
in one way, then where's the creativity?
You know what I mean? It's like
it's not really all that much time to

(23:00):
create if you're trying to survive emotionally, you
know? Sometimes out of I I I had
a a person like that in my life
too,
who was my my aunt. She was my
aunt on my father's side.
And she was always there for me when
I was having a really tough time. And
when I lost her, it was like I
got yanked away. It was like a piece

(23:21):
of my heart went with her.
But sometimes out of that sadness and that
aloneness
can come deep creativity
and a and a deeper voice because we
become survivors.
You know? There's so many things that you
have done that I admire so much. Some
of the projects that you've been involved with,
you went from Cinecon to Cary productions, and

(23:42):
that's where we have that 1%,
that one degree of separation. Yeah.
And, and the, everybody around him are amazing
people. And, talk to me about some of
the projects that you were involved with there,
like American Dream and Buffalo Soldiers,
Freedom
Song? My goodness. I mean,

(24:03):
Danny kinda let me he would always joke
with people, like, I don't do anything. She
does all the work. You know? And so
he kinda gave me free rein. And I
had sort of a when I started working
with Danny, I had just moved from New
York. Like, me and my my daughter at
the time was seven,
and we had just moved out here in
February. And I met Danny in September, August

(24:25):
or September. So I'd only been out here
about six months,
and I had never lived and worked in
the film industry in LA,
and it's quite different than New York,
and very.
And so
my attitude going in was like, oh, we're
gonna make films. Let's make films, you know?
And it wasn't like all this other stuff

(24:45):
that I learned was a thing later. And
so it was really about
getting stuff done and connecting dots and, you
know, working with great people. I mean, we
did America's Dream. I have to shout out
to Wesley Snipes for America's dream. He went
to SUNY Purchase, and I didn't know him
that well. You know, to shorten the story,
he was really kind enough because of that

(25:06):
SUNY Purchase connection, and we had mutual friends.
You know, there were other people that we
were friends that knew each other and, you
know, namely Ron and Ashley and that were
the writers on America's Dream. And so I
went to the set. I think was it
Money Train,
you know, and pitched them the project,
told him what we're doing. You know, it's
a trilogy of short stories by black writers,

(25:28):
Maya Angelou,
Richard Wright, and,
John Henry Clark.
And so, serendipitously,
Wesley was doing a documentary on John Henry
Clark and knew the short story, The Boy
Who Painted Christ Black, that we wanted him
to play professor I mean, the the the
teacher in, and he was just amazing. He
said, yeah. I'll do it. You know? And,

(25:49):
again, it was serendipitous in background and, you
know, you have the name, name, you get
the green light or whatever. But we also,
you know, we had a great team on
that. Bill Duke was one of our directors.
Kevin Sullivan was one of our directors. We
had a great, great cast along with Wesley,
Jasmine Guy, Tiena Thompson,
Lifford. I mean, we just had a really

(26:10):
amazing cast. It was a great project, you
know, to celebrate the the time of of
of writers, you know, again, you know, literary
stars, you know.
I was lucky to meet Maya Angelou just
briefly. Me too. Me too. I met her
too while we were doing this project. In
fact, you know, just, yeah, you just, awe,
just utter awe, you know? Yeah. It was

(26:32):
at, Mr. G's father's funeral.
And so it was a somber time,
but she's so inspiring. And I, I just
love watching her,
perform and her writing is amazing. Yeah. She
was really an amazing woman. I, I loved
her so much even before, and I met
her briefly in a hotel lobby. I think

(26:52):
it was Shutters in Santa Monica.
I met her and went up to her
and just said, oh, we're doing a story,
and I I can't forget what she said,
but I remember being grand, you know, or
maybe it was my imagination, like, oh, yes,
that story. I don't know. Maybe my imagination
but it was just really great. It was
really great. And There was something about her.

(27:12):
She had this aura of power around her.
Oh, yeah. Because she was so I I
don't know how I felt it. I could
feel it for her. Yes. You could feel
it. You could just remember when she walked
in the room. I just walked or walked
through the lobby that day, I remember, and
it was just, you know, a trail of
magic, you know, walking through,
the room. Yeah. Yeah. So was Buffalo Soldiers

(27:35):
after American Dream or what So Buffalo Soldiers,
we had been developing a script over at,
I think, HBO at the time for, I
don't know, a year or so, and
working with the writer, and it didn't work.
We couldn't get it right,
so they put it in turnaround as as
often happens in in this business.
And so flash forward to, like, a year

(27:57):
later,
Buffalo Soldiers. So did got got in turnaround
on HBO. And about a year later, I
was in New York,
at the Gotham Awards, and I was sitting
at a table
next to Ted Turner and Jane Fonda.
And
back backstory about Ted Turner, when I was
a seven like, a teenager, I was a

(28:17):
big Ted Turner fan,
and I just watched him on was the
America's Cup. I still to this day don't
know why me as a kid in the
ghetto was sitting there watching this goddamn crazy
guy, not crazy, but just visionary man on
this boat. Well, he's eccentric. He's eccentric, but
genius. I mean, he's he's a genius. Let's
you know? So anyone watching him, and I
was like he was, like, staggering. He's you

(28:38):
know, the were saying these things, and I
I sounds like, wow. This guy's amazing, because
then there were interviews about him doing TBS.
Remember TBS before TNT? And there was he
was always talking about his network and then
TNT and CNN. He's just the mouth of
the South. So I just thought he was
such a character, and I was a fan.
You know, I was probably the first executive

(28:58):
person that wasn't an actor that I was
a fan of.
So flash forward literally ten years,
literally ten years,
I met the Gotham Awards and was sitting
there
and I'm like I was with a friend.
I was like, oh my God, there's Ted
Turner. There's Ted. I've gotta go over and
say something to Ted Turner. I was working
with Janet Turner,
you know? And so I I'm stalking him,

(29:19):
like, kind of with my eyes. What's he
doing? You know, Jane is, you know, there.
So I see him go to the bar,
and I go to the bar, and I'm
standing next to him, you know, and he
kind of turns my way, and I go,
Mr. Turner, you know, my name is Carolyn
McDonald, and I saw you in the America's
Cup and you win the boat and you
won and I don't know what I said.
I was just like that. And now, and
then he kind of stopped what he was

(29:41):
doing and looked at me.
And like, who is this person talking about
the American dream? And so he goes, Hi.
You know, he says, Nice to meet you.
Thanks for coming up. And I said, Oh,
I work for Danny Glover, and I think
we may have gone to TNT to pitch
a project that Buffalo or we were going
to.
And I said, Yeah, we were trying to

(30:03):
do this Buffalo Soldiers movie at TNT. And
he goes, Hell, I'd love to have a
Buffalo Soldiers movie on my network with Danny
Glover. I got a Buffalo Soldiers graveyard on
my branch in Montana.
And so it was done, you know, and
I said, Oh, are you serious? He goes,
Yeah, you know, so next day I fax
machines. I fax a letter to the head
of TNT. No, I fax a letter to

(30:25):
him.
I get his fax number. I call around,
get his fax number and say it was
great to meet you last night.
You know, thank you so much for the
opportunity. I will go back to go to
TNT and talk to people here. And I
copied him, copied wrote to him and copied
the head of TNT production
at the time and our agents at William
Morris
and Danny, you know, the rest is kind

(30:45):
of history because but then we, of course,
we did develop a script, you know, with
another writer. We found we had a script
that was, that was all kinda floating around
one of those scripts people had, but we
went and did some work on it
and, with this, other writer. But what I
I love
Buffalo Soldiers is my favorite film that I
produced.

(31:06):
And what I love about that movie is
the relationship that we showed between Native American
Indians and African Americans and the culture of
that time, you know,
and how this is, again, an untold story,
you know, and how the Buffalo Soldiers
interacted. And there's more stories, and we only
had on that ninety minutes to tell that
story. We were able to really show a

(31:27):
pivotal point that I later found out was
real. We thought we were making up the
fact that the Buffalo Soldiers let the the
the Indians go into Mexico, and I found
out later that was a true event
that happened.
You know? So that still is my because
I learned so much there, I mean, about
native Indian culture, you know, and still and

(31:48):
I went years I I I've been a
teacher teaching artists at Native American GONAs, you
know, gathering of Native American art, for kids,
for teenagers.
And I just it's I feel that's I'm
I'm not one of those people that's gonna
claim my great great great grandfather was an
Indian chief or anything like that, but there's
a kindredness and spirit between

(32:09):
myself and Native American.
You know? I I feel that very, very
strongly.
I've spent some time
on the reservations,
because I'm an ambassador for Blackmagic. So they
send me out. Oh, wow.
Right on. The kids always say, do we
have to leave the reservation?
And I don't think they do. There's so

(32:29):
many stories there. And the best thing that
ever happened to me with all of that
is I went back to Arizona
about a year later,
and this girl said,
thank you so much for working with us.
I'm making a film about my grandmother.
And, you know, that's the continuation
of their family and their culture. And I

(32:51):
think we need more of that. I think
we need more of that. So much more.
Stories. So much more, especially, you know, and
different kinds of stories. Different, you know, different
not the the same old story. You know?
You gotta have different kinds of stories. You
know? Yeah. There's stories. There's so many stories
everywhere.
What about Freedom Song?
Kind of inherited
Freedom Song
because it was a big feature that was

(33:12):
supposed to go at either Fox or Universal,
I forget which, and and we just, you
know, came off of Buffalo Soldiers, and everybody
really loved that.
And America's Dream would win an image award
for that. You know? So I knew Phil
Robinson
from you know, he wrote Field of Dreams.
You know, along with the hard work that
we do, especially on a level be as
a producer, you know, you're you're looking for

(33:34):
projects,
and and actors know this too. It's like
all the work you put in, and I
think it was Bryan Cranston did say it
the other day that you there's those moments
of luck, those moments of grace. There was
the moment with Wesley, the moments with Ted,
you know, and there's even after doing the
work and developing and getting the writers and
going in and having HBO say, oh, bring
me the broomstick of the witch, you know,

(33:56):
and all that. You know, there's those those
grace moments where somebody crosses your path or
something happens that you know that. I knew
Phil, and I knew he was writing this
to him about the the the civil rights
movement and the workers then and but it
was, again, like I said, a big at,
supposed to go at Universal. You know? It's
supposed to be a big $20.30,
whatever million dollar movie. And so I was

(34:16):
talking to him one day, and he's mentioned
that it had gone into turnaround.
And so I immediately call. I said, would
you do that? You know? I said, we've
got this really great relationship with TNT.
Would you consider doing it for television? I
know, you know, you wanna do a big
feature. I said, will you think about it?
Because, you know, we've done a great movie.

(34:36):
No. Actually, we went to HBO, and I
can say this because the exec is no
longer there, and they passed on it. You
know? And so then I called TNT,
and they said, are you kidding me? What
time can we meet? You know? They immediately
got it. And then the another exec came
in at HBO was like, why didn't you
bring us in? I said, I did.
You know? But your predecessors are passed on

(34:57):
it. I don't think sometimes they get it.
Do you know that,
Field of Dreams almost didn't go internationally?
Universal
didn't think it would go. Carolco was a
client of mine at the time.
And I remember watching the film, and and
I got was getting up in arms. I'm
saying, you gotta release this internationally. This is
gonna be big. So we were talking to

(35:19):
to them all at the same time. That's
funny. There's a there's a scene in in
I'm remembering it. I'm pretty sure it was
in Freedom Song, and I I
get tears in my eyes every time I
even think about it. And it's Danny
with his family,
and they're trying to take his home away.
And he says, we're gonna stay here. My
father built this home

(35:40):
brick by brick by brick. Is that was
that in Freedom Song or was that a
different movie? I I I can't remember. Remember
that from Freedom Song, actually, because it wasn't
really the dynamic. The dynamic of Freedom Song
was
intergenerational
of his son wanted

(36:04):
that. So it wasn't I don't remember anything
about Totally different movie.
Why can't I remember the name of that
film? See, I did, I did the
the a film about Danny many years ago
when he got the diversity award for the
producers guild. So I saw some movies that
some people
may not even remember that he was in.
He's been in some amazing movies,

(36:27):
But that but that one film, I'll think
of the name of it. You and I
will talk about it because I just think
it was in terms of the writing and
the performance and the emotion behind the scene.
It said everything
about what was happening during that era when
people were being forced out of their homes
and
their neighborhoods. And he just said, we're we're

(36:49):
gonna stay. My father built this home brick
by brick. By brick. Yeah. I'm trying to
think of what that was. The music and
I
cry. Oh my gosh. So you've worked a
lot with the younger generation, and I think
that's wonderful,
in Nashville,
at the at the reservations.
How does that feel?

(37:09):
It it's so fulfilling. I mean, Nashville. Oh
my god. I've, worked with the Nashville Film
Festival's,
youth outreach phone program. I ran it for,
what, seven years? Six, six, seven years? And
it was so rewarding to because what it
was, we got to talk to the kids
and get them to tell their stories, and
then we wrote a script
and shot the movie of their story.

(37:31):
And then they got to see it on
screen at the film festival, And it was
just so magical, the whole process. I was
looking at one of the films I didn't
know I had on my computer the other
day, and I just,
you know, think of the kids because I
would run into them sometimes and,
you know, yeah, I I love that that
prod that process to their stories. And then
I was really blessed enough to direct a

(37:52):
documentary
with the Nashville Civic Design Center called design
your neighborhood,
chronicling the journey of these teenagers learning about
civic design and architecture and how they could
influence their neighborhood knowing about these processes, you
know, of of how your world is built,
how your neighborhood is built. So that was
a lot a lot of fun. And and,
really, I mean, I always liked architecture,

(38:15):
before I because I it's an art form,
and I love I love art art architecture.
But, working with the Civic Design Center, which
is most cities have them, you know, or
not aware maybe, but we're what Civic Design
Centers do is they work with developers
and neighborhoods
to kinda find a way to make sure
the the footprints and blueprints that are working

(38:35):
with the with your communities.
The kids got to, build a park. You
know, they designed a park, and and it
was implemented because of working with the civic
design center. So, again, it's it's about confidence
building working with teenagers. You know? Again,
back to my you know, it's for me,
it's so important to give back because I
was so blessed. You know? Like I said,

(38:55):
I didn't have my aunt or uncle when
I taught stuff along the way
and and had these magic moments, like my
first job at Warner Brothers with Ed Bleier.
You know? And before that, I worked, with
his wife was a journalist, so I worked
she was sort of the Belgian barber world,
so I worked in her office,
you know, doing transcripts of interviews with people
like Gloria Swanson and William Holden and Brooke
Shields and Tom Cruise and stuff like that.

(39:16):
That was my very first job. And so
Ed saw kind of the work I was
doing with her, and he knew I was
in film and I was about to go
to nyu. So when I was at nyu,
I was a,
what do you call it? A floater temp
person at Warner Brothers before I hired to
do a job. Right? The floaters. You know,
the floaters. I was a floater for two
years at one, but wasn't that great? Because

(39:37):
you got to work for everybody. You got
to see everything. You got to see and
this was when Steve Ross was alive, and
there was the magic Warner Communications
and
Elektra Records and people like Grace Jones and,
you know, it was just that was I'm
I
am so grateful that I lived in New
York, like, 1981

(39:58):
to '84,
I think, were the most magical years of
New York and art,
you know, and just some really good Basquiat.
I read we did Keith Airing. I used
to see those guys in the subways, you
know, like, talking to my daughter's friend, a
couple weeks ago, and he was like, you
do Pascal. I was like, he wasn't my
friend, but Sammo was around. You know?

(40:20):
And, we had mutual friends. You know, the
eighties are really popular with the younger generation
right now. I mean, we are cool again.
I mean, I think you and I worked
with a lot of the same peep it's
amazing. It's so funny. Our family lives that
we never yeah. The time to everything there
is a season to everything there is a
season to. And I honestly think that one

(40:41):
of the reasons that that we're meeting, I'm
going to be really
open with this because I, I, you know,
I looked at some of what you've done
and I've been working with young people a
lot. And I think that it's a very
difficult time for the younger generation.
And so
when people like you go in and you
say, we love you. We respect you. We

(41:03):
see you. What can we do to help?
Their hearts open up. There's the smile comes
back on their face,
and you're giving them something that's so important.
And I would like to do more of
that with the nonprofit I started with the
high school media collective. Really? You have that.
Oh, we gotta talk about more about that

(41:24):
because I have some ideas for some things
I would like to do, again, you know,
in terms of the content and programming. I
totally wanna talk to you about that because
I'm all about that. You're absolutely right, and
it's really
I mean, I go back to Nashville. I
remember I I mean, like I said, I
did this for seven years, and and and
even with the Design Your Neighborhood, the moment

(41:44):
that it would happen is when we would
we like I said, they would be talking,
and we'd be my I had a friend
of mine, God rest his soul, came friend
of Karen's as well, Jay, and a lot
of times we worked together, and he we
would be dictating what the kids would say,
and then we get together and write a
draft of a script.
And so when we would go and pass
out on paper
their words,

(42:05):
that it wasn't just words and stories that
they were telling and things that happened. It
was actually a script,
and it gave them validation
that their words mattered.
And giving them the script was asking for
notes from them because I'd say, would you
say that like that? You know, I we're
passing these out. I wanna here's the pins.
You know? Give us notes because
if you know? So they're feeling invested. They're

(42:28):
feeling like they have some control of their
destiny, at least how it looks on the
film. Do you know what I mean? And
this again, design your neighborhood to be a
part of a project that shows kids that,
you know, this is what happens in architecture.
This is why your street is cut. This
is why the stop sign is right here.
This is why there's flowers here, right here.
You know, this is why, you know, this

(42:48):
developer has to do x y z. You
know what I mean? And then let them
to understand why their world is the way
it is and that once you understand why
in the hows we went we took the
kids to the Mayor's Office. I just remembered.
We'd spend the afternoon with the mayor of
Nashville at the time.
And so to let them know that they
can be invested and have some say so

(43:10):
in control of their destiny and their voice,
controlling their narrative. It's about giving them access
and empowerment to control their narrative.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And and even on a on an international
scale,
what's happening
with what I call unsocial media
and and the way people are publicly treating

(43:33):
each other. Working with the younger generation, it's
like you're with
people that have
young people that have big hearts and and
they're going through a lot, but they're so
open to positivity.
And I think what you're doing is so
important. It's just so important. I will support
you in any way I can. We're gonna
talk. Everybody listening, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave

(43:55):
this part in because
you need to think about what we're doing
with and for the younger generation because that's
our future.
And if you have any ideas about what
Carolyn and I can do and other people
who are working with young people,
you know, write to 0wcradio@catania.us,catania,

(44:16):
like the city in Sicily. Write to us
and tell us what you think. You know,
if you want us to come in your
community, even if we zoom in and talk
to the kids,
if we can teach, if we can bring
other mentors in,
let us know, and we will listen. And
I think that I think we can make
some big changes
for future generations.

(44:38):
I wanna talk about your photography because it's
amazing.
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
you. Tell me what's happening with that. My
photography, to go backwards, to go forward, I
was just telling you how I started shooting
when I was a little kid. And for
me, it's storytelling.
It started then. And it started
I'll I'll I'll share too,
in first grade, when I started school in

(44:59):
1966,
I think first grade was my first year.
We had just the most amazing teachers. Oh
my god. And schools were segregated when I
started school. In 1966,
and North Carolina school is still segregated.
And we had the most incredible
teachers. They just, like
I don't know. I can't even find words.

(45:19):
I I brat I'd say this all the
time. Some of my friends get sick of
me saying this. So we had this assignment
that we when you finished your main pro
main thing, your work schoolwork,
you had a supplementary
assignment. So when you finished your whatever was
on the bulletin board, there was this cardboard
box that you went and you found pictures
in. And you take the box and you'd

(45:40):
write a story
about the picture. The teachers are really close.
It was a small, you know, black school,
and so each of was only, like, 20
students in class. And so everybody knew each
other, and they all converged, so you get
not the same homework, but people knew assignments
from class to class.
So everybody had this assignment for, like, two,
three years. You know? It was part of

(46:00):
one of your supplementary things. So for, like,
three years,
no for two. I I know definitely for
two years,
first and second grade, we'd have this assignment
of going to find the picture. It was
usually from Life Magazine, Time Magazine. You remember
those pictures,
you know, or art or even art. That's
my first taste of art. I remember the
blue boy. Oh, I forget Gainsborough's, the Blue

(46:20):
Boy, of course, Madonna,
Da Vinci. I'm sorry. And Madonna,
of course, Mona Lisa. Famous art pieces that
we were exposed to in first, second, and
third grade
is very important.
And to write these stories, like, making up,
like, what you think it was or what,
you know, something, you just had to stay
busy. You were just supposed to write a
story. Okay?

(46:41):
And so,
every day,
seeing compositions,
seeing photos, seeing thing, you know? And I
think that's where my photography came in because
I knew from the time I picked up
a camera, I came out of that assignment.
And so, my goal consciously, subconsciously, was to
tell a story and be able to because

(47:02):
I was required to write a story about
an image, so I gotta come up with
this image that tells a story, okay?
And
and use your imagination as in composition, and,
you know, people talk about my eye and,
you know and, again, that was something that
started when I was six years old. I
still, you know, with with the street photography,
if people go to my Instagram page or,

(47:22):
you know, go to my website, you know,
it's like you look at each image, and
I hope there's a story there. There should
be a story there. At least I have
one in my head. But each person can
make it their own. You know? I have
one of my collections, Time and Tide as
Revealed by Light, and that's a series of,
abstracts that are

(47:43):
etchings
created by drops of water in the sand
along the shore at low tide down here
where I live by the ocean.
And everybody that talk looks at them
sees something different. And, again, it's story and
title. You know? Tyler Lindster, I teach screenwriting
at New York Film Academy now, and I
love that because everything's about story. But when

(48:03):
I talk to my students
about
imagery, you know, what every shot, everything somebody
looks at, you know, is is telling something,
is saying something. So bearing that in mind,
you know, what you're putting on the page,
somebody
is gonna see. You it needs to tell
say something. Absolutely. And so my photography, I
really enjoy it from traveling. It just really

(48:25):
brings me joy. And during the pandemic, I
got COVID
horribly twice and just got it again. But
when I was here by myself in 2020,
I just moved to Long Beach, and I
didn't know anybody. I started designing these frames,
and I really got into my photography because
I think anybody that you you you fear,
you you know, whether you're gonna die or
not wake up the next morning, it's like,
what do I really enjoy doing? How do

(48:46):
I really enjoy spending my time?
And the highest on that list was photography,
was, you know, capturing images, whether on my
iPhone, which is great cameras now on iPhone.
Shame I don't have I'm not getting paid
by Apple, but that don't mean I won't
want to if there's anybody from Apple listening.
But also I have a Canon. You know,
I love my first Pentax. You know, I

(49:07):
shot with, like, everything, the Canon, the Pentax,
the Casio, the
the Blackmagic,
the,
you know, every kind of device I think.
I haven't had a Hasselblad or a Leica
yet, though, you know, but
Tell people where to go to see your
frames and your artwork.
My frames,
I started making those by hand. I, you
know, use mixed media fabrics and things like

(49:30):
that.
I'm revamping, like, my website. I have some
things on Instagram created by Carolyn
at created by Carolyn on Instagram. I'm slowly
but surely getting things out there, but, I
have a website, carolynmacdonald.com,
which is where you can see a lot
of stuff and hear some things, read some
things. You know, mixing things together, I like
and and and I love the time that

(49:51):
we're in in in the world because using
technology, like, even as you were talking about
the young people,
I think I'm really an advocate too of
us folks that have been on on the
earth for a minute. I call that t
toe,
big toe people, because big toe to me
means time on earth, big time on earth.
We've been here a long time. Okay? So
I'm also an advocate for us because,

(50:13):
you know, everybody's thinking the twenties that they're
you know, it's that media culture,
but, I mean, we've been here twenty, thirty
years longer than, you know, them. So I
would like to think that we know a
little bit more and get farmed out in
America, I think, especially in this part of
the world on the West Coast. Oh, my
God. It's so Oh, I'm not going to
let them farm me out money. I know.
Me either. No, no, no, no, no. Me

(50:33):
neither. No. I'm not dead yet. I know.
And they're trying to be. So, no. I
just want to say that, you know, just
speaking, we spoke to the young people. Now
I wanna speak to the, you know, the
mature, the big toe people,
big time on earth people,
and say, like, start things over. I mean,
I'm launching things now, you know? Kinda feel
like I got my second wind, you know,

(50:54):
in life and can really bring all this
experience and use the new technologies, like, with
my one of my photo collections is called
Imaginary Bands and Their Fake Ass Songs, and
I'm getting ready to do a podcast show
of it, you know,
a mockumentary
kind of thing. So
it's taking different things. You can do storytelling.
It's back like I said, back to storytelling.

(51:16):
You know? You know what I do with
stories?
A variation on what you do. Well, I
I try to do it with my photography,
but
I've had my kids say, mom, you're staring.
And I I actually, what I do is
I watch people
and I make up stories in my head
about their lives and who they are and

(51:37):
Me too. And make up this whole story
about somebody will go walking by, and all
of a sudden, they're like
the lead in my play in my head.
Exactly.
Yeah. No. I totally and to get back
to imaginary bands
is, as I said, I don't know if
I said I always wanted to shoot album
covers, you know, when I was a teenager
because I loved albums called Earth, Wind and

(51:57):
Fire and Stevie Wonder and all those, right,
imaginary bands, and so
I was, having insomnia, and so I couldn't
sleep one night, and I was thinking about
how I was wanting to shoot out album
covers, and I said, hey. I'm gonna use
my photos, and I'm gonna make up my
own album covers. And so I made up
the bands, and I made up the songs,
and so that's you're here, the speed of
love. I made up the and and being

(52:18):
a storyteller
to make up the pull the photograph, you
know, one of my photos, then think of
the name of the album and the name
of the artist. I had to find the
characters.
So Plank Time or Sniggly Mason
or Ayla Chane Bell
or
Chester Sukieman
Barnes or you know, these are people I
made up, you know? So I was talking

(52:40):
to people about them, and they're like, you've
got to do something because these sound sound
like real people, so you have to do
something
with this beautiful book. That would also make
an incredible book.
Mhmm.
Mhmm. Mhmm. You know, coffee table book. Yeah.
With pictures.
Them right now. Yeah. I'm working on that
right now. That's an active that's my my
current project is imaginary bands. Yeah. That's awesome.

(53:02):
So where do, I wanna ask you one
question though, before we go.
What do you wish
for creative people? Like, what is your wish
for
people like us in the world
who are driven and who have these god
given gifts and who wanna have a voice?
What do you wish for us?
I have two answers. Can I give you

(53:23):
two answers? The first for the artists themselves
is fearlessness.
And to
not fear
anything because you're a unique being, and you
have your own voice, vision,
talent.
Talents,
most people have more than one. And don't
be afraid of that either because for so
long, it's like, stay in your lane. Stay

(53:45):
in your lane. No.
And today, you can't stay in your lane
or you won't eat. You know? So it's
exploring all your art and feeling good about
it, the fearlessness, you know, loving the art
in yourself and loving
what you've been given, the talent that God
has given you. And the second part of
that is to
kind of the
buyers or listeners or viewers or watchers or

(54:08):
readers is to
honor all of us, not just the ones
that are at the top of the charts.
But I've just I don't really even like
watching, you know, a lot of
popular stuff. I like to really find you
know, surf out SoundCloud
or surf, you know, Instagram
and, you know, find artists that because I

(54:28):
live, again, back to my days in Nashville.
I know some, like, the most talented people
that, you know, could out sing
most of the people you would see on
the charts these days. Do you know what
I'm saying?
And so I would just say to
patrons, you know, to seek out other artists,
not just the popular ones, but, you know,

(54:49):
and support locally. Support your local. I like
the word glocal, like, globally. Like, I I
love my my Irish. I have a Irish
kinship because I've been to Belfast and Dublin,
and I'm working on a project there. So
there's some amazing Irish artists that I really
love. And
and, so it's finding again, back to culture.
You know? I I love Irish culture outside

(55:10):
American.
I haven't been to Africa yet. I haven't
been to, like, Kenya or or or South
Africa or any of the countries that I
wanna go
to learn more about about, you know, the
culture arts there. So, but seeking out diff
things that are different than yourself. That's, you
know
yeah.
And trusting
yourself
to know when you and see, I go

(55:31):
around the world like you do, and I
meet people that are unsung heroes. I call
them the unsung heroes. And
I believe in them. And that's part of
why
I wanna do
what I do with interviews.
You're very well known. But like you said,
you've discovered a lot of people who aren't.
I would like to give those people a
voice even if it's for just a moment

(55:52):
to say,
god bless you and thank you. This is
wonderful.
You know? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how
well known I am, but, I I'd like
to be appreciated, and I'd like to appreciate
others and for it to be seen, you
know, to to be really be seen and
to be heard and, you know, yeah, I
I'd I'd like to, you know, continue to

(56:13):
to to that Irish phrase again, big people
up, you know?
Yeah.
So tell everybody again where to go to
find your work and to find out more
about you and the different different websites or
on the Internet?
Best place again, as I just said, Instagram
is at created by carolyn, c a r

(56:33):
o l y n,
all one word. And, my website,
carolynmcdonald.com.
Well, everybody listening,
thank Carolyn for sharing her time with us.
This is wonderful.
Remember what I tell you guys every time,
get up off your chairs and go do
something wonderful today.

(56:54):
She's She's Carolyn McDonald's. I'm Serena Catania,
and you've been listening to OWC Radio.

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