In the Lobby: Julie Theis on The Trust, Showmance with Jake, and Overcoming Online Hate

#27: In this captivating episode, we sit down with Julie Theis, a psychologist, entrepreneur, and breakout star of Netflix’s hit reality show, The Trust.

Julie shares her journey to fame, starting with the viral Kylie Jenner Balenciaga controversy, and offers an inside look at the alliances, rivalries, and drama that defined her time on the show.

She delves into her high-profile showmance with Jake, revealing what unfolded behind the scenes and after the cameras stopped rolling.

Julie also opens up about managing online hate, maintaining authenticity, and thriving in the public eye. Don’t miss this engaging and inspiring conversation with one of reality TV’s rising stars!

You can follow Julie Theis:
Insta: @julietheisofficial 
TikTok: @ julietheis

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm so excited.
I feel like we've been runningaround like maniacs today, but
we're so excited to have JulieTice in the lobby with us.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
The H is silent.
Yes, yes, rhymes is nice.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yeah, I mean, I was telling you I'm blonde so it
might take me a few tries to getit correct, but we're so
excited to have you here.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
We're so excited to have youhere.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show.
We're trying to keep ourpodcast like Austin based, like
you know, kind of interview likeinfluencers, innovators,

(00:33):
entrepreneurs, and I can't thinkof anyone better to have.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I feel like you fit in so many boxes, which is good.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, I don't fit in.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Exactly.
I'm like well, I don't knowwhich way to say it, but you are
making your own way and you'redoing it in such a very
different, authentic way.
So it's valuable, but I thinkthe audience definitely needs to
hear a little bit more aboutyou, thanks, guys.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, I'm worried about this mic.
Is that the right?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
thing You're good.
Yeah, like a little bit Fistaway.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, yeah and I'm like.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is the authentic stuff.
I know Every time we're in heretoo.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
We start like sweating.
It's like the lights and theheat and everything it gets hot
here it's good, right now yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
So I mean, we talked a little bit about heat, right
Like where's home originally,because I want to make sure I
understand this.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm from Montana originally and I moved to Austin
three years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Didn't know a single person here.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I was in Very impulsively, yeah, yeah, what
was Montana like?

Speaker 3 (01:30):
So small, so I grew up in a 5,000 population town.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Montana has a million people for the whole state, so
there's more cows than there arepeople, that's true.
So I grew up super small townbut I was always like I'm going
um.
So I grew up super small townbut I was always like I'm gonna
get out one day.
I hate it here.
It's so cranky, and all myteachers would be like, oh,
you're gonna just love it.
When you grow up you're gonnafeel different.
I'm like no, I'm not.
And I grew up, I still don'tfeel different so like you still
won't go back to, maybe likeonce a year, okay I'll go

Speaker 2 (01:57):
back, yeah do you think you would have like your
vacation home there?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
um no, why would you have a vacation?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
home.
So I I only asked cause I usedto work out there.
I used to work in Montana, um.
So I've been to Billings and Iused to also work in.
Billings.
Okay, there we go.
And I used to work in Boise,okay, so I think they're
picturesque, like they'rebeautiful, but I can imagine.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
I've just done it.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Like it's so pretty in the snow and I'm like I've
done.
I did my time.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, I'm from New York.
I feel the same way, and I'mnot from maybe like certain
parts of New York thateverybody's mind may go to, yeah
, but I feel the same way, likeI'm, like I did it, I'm good, I
don't want to live there.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Done, I'm going to the next.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah words, and I was very similar like not
completely, but how I am nowlike imagine this in Montana,
yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
You were right.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I wasn't very like, understood, yeah which is to
your benefit yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
And then Austin, you've been here three years.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, that's crazy so I've been here six and I did
that same move like my stylemove was I moved here kind of
like on a whim.
I had the opportunity to livein Dallas or Houston and I chose
Austin because I'd nevervisited.
And then when I first visitedhere, like maybe like 30 minutes
in, I'm like, I'm in, let'ssign the lease.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I actually typed in when I was like thinking about
it, because I just went througha breakup.
I'm like best place for likehot, single rich people to live
it was San Francisco was first,I think for like entrepreneurs
too, I think San Francisco isnumber one, and then Austin was
like number two or number threeand I was like, okay, I guess.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
But a good thing, too is like you're making your own
way, like you don't need anybody.
Like this is it's amazing towitness.
It's amazing to see the samething that you search for, of
like why you came here you'rebreaking barriers and doing it
the way in which you want toyeah, which is cool.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, I feel like I found my way here.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, I like Austin because like I was going to,
because like didn't you grow upin like foster care or what was
that like, because do you havefamily still in Montana or what
is your kind of home life?

Speaker 3 (04:00):
look like there um, I don't speak to anyone like I
have a grandma that's stillthere and like her and I speak,
but that's not often um.
So growing up I was, like youknow, single mom, so we were
homeless on and off.
I was in foster care a few ofthose times, um, without like,
when I was really younger, likea baby and like two um, but

(04:23):
those are very importantdevelopmental years.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
So sure definitely so .

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, I wasn't good growing up, which is probably
another reason why I very muchdisliked it.
And then, like the second Iturned 18, I put I kind of I've
done this often.
I put everything like in mytruck and I was like I drove up
to the nearest college town andI was like I want to go to
school.
And they're like you can't youliterally have to have like your
parents sign off on all thisstuff.
They're like well, are youemancipated from the state?

(04:50):
I'm like no, I don't, I justleft, you know.
And they're like well, you can'tgo to school, like you need
your parents to sign this.
And I was like I don't likeknow where they're at um, like I
, I don't talk to them.
And the like lady in the umregistration office, she's like
okay, and she like bypassed thepaperwork and her name is Julie.
I still remember her and sheenrolled me and four years later

(05:13):
I graduated with highest honorsand then I went on to get my
master's degree and then, when Iwas done with my master's, I
once again like sold everything,put everything like in my
vehicle and just drove downAustin.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
So that's scary.
Again like sold everything, puteverything like in my vehicle
and just drove down austin.
So that's scary, that's yourmove, that's like when you're
ready to go.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
You like pack, I just leave.
I'm a runner.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, price is something on my style, I don't
know I mean, I think that'swhat's so fascinating too,
because, like you studiedpsychology right, yeah, in
college.
Do you think that was likeaffected by the way that you
kind of were brought up like infoster care and trying to
understand maybe yourself oryour family dynamic better?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
yeah, completely.
I think I always had like afascination for also like what
separated people um, which Iknow we'll get into, but even
like the show the Trust reallyfascinated me about how like
there's different like class,classes, genders, all of that.
So I was a very like observantchild and I'd be like, why are
we living like this?
Why do other people live likethat?
Why also, like, are my parentslike this to me?

(06:10):
Um, so I was just very curiousabout humans and human nature,
but then also like, how do Ibreak out of this?
How do I become somethingdifferent than like what I grew
up in?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
yeah, and it's so funny too, the way in which your
brand attaches to a lot of thatdevelopment like education,
wise, right, like your personalbrand.
I think it almost rings adifferent bell for me now
Understanding that backgroundand hearing a little bit more
about it.
Yeah, I'm now familiarized in away where I'm like holy, like
it just makes a little bit moresense when you're offering those

(06:41):
impact statements or thoseversions of ways in which you
can handle and deal withpsychological kind of like
indifferences that we all have.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, and it's crazy because, like, you would never
know, like what your upbringingwas like.
Because you're such a well puttogether woman, I think it's so
fascinating for you to likeshare your story and like where
you kind of came from.
Yeah, because we were talkingabout you know, a big thing
we're going to talk about isthis Netflix show that you were

(07:10):
on the trust, but you also havea master's degree in psychology.
So I was asking you, I was like, what were you doing before you
were talking to the castingdirectors of the show?
Like, were you taking onclients?
Were you doing therapy forclients?
What was your career likebefore this big Netflix reality

(07:31):
show?

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, so I went to school to at first be a
therapist.
So I have my bachelor's inapplied psychology.
My master's is also inpsychology, but halfway through
grad school I also switched intospecialization in industrial
organizational psychology.
So I specialized in sales,social media, buying, behavior.
So I actually had like uh,private clients that I took on

(07:57):
to help them like build andscale their business or like the
psychology of sales, whichactually has a lot to do with
like human nature and there islike uh, it probably plays it
big into the show.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, cause there is like, uh, it probably plays it
big into the show, yeah becausethere is like human nature of
like it's how do people makedecisions?

Speaker 3 (08:09):
yeah, so there's some controversy around that because
it's like oh, are youmanipulating people in a buying?
Well, people just they're notas unbiased with their decisions
as they think they are.
They're always being influenced, so it's either going to be you
or another company.
Um, so that's what I focused on, but I was actually working in
cryptocurrency and helping, so Ihad a corporate job in crypto,
but crypto dudes like suck atmarketing and there's stuff that

(08:31):
they have to market, so I wasdoing that.
But I also take on privateclients and do more of that.
It's not therapy, mentoring,but I coach a lot around
psychological addictions.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wow, yeah, I mean, that's's like, I think, how I
first found you because, likebeing in austin, we kind of have
some like mutual girlfriends.
But I remember at the time Iwas like scrolling on tiktok and
it was during the balenciagascandal and I think you know
there's a pretty big familycalled the kardashians that, uh,
I don't know if they hated youfor a second, but they weren't

(09:07):
your biggest.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
I don't think they like me.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
I don't know if they're your biggest fan, Julie,
because you do put a lot ofcontent around, kind of the
psychology of the family, thingsthat are occurring.
What was it like when you knowI guess it was, was it?
Kylie kind of came for you inyour comments with a video you
posted?
Yeah, I did a video.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
It was a joke and I'm kind of like calling out just
the Kardashians because shereleased photos of like her kids
during like the Balenciagascandal and I was like oh, kris
Jenner telling the kids torelease the good photos and
Kylie commented on it and shewas all like this is why I don't
post post this stuff and I'mlike I I commented back and I
did a response video and I waslike I get that, that shit's

(09:48):
frustrating.
But at the same time, and thenthat video blew up, like my
video was on like the news, Imean like buzzfeed,
e-entertainment, dutch news,spanish news, yahoo, everywhere
and I'm like do you see theimpact of like you kind of
throwing a fit and being thevictim right now, which I get it
?
It probably sucks, like you'realways under like constant
scrutiny.
However, the attention this gotlike this is not what deserves.

(10:13):
My videos don't deserveattention Like the what
Balenciaga was doing with likeblatant child pedophilia and
their ads, and I'm like youcould have said one sentence in
statement and stood up forsomething that's far more
important than this video, butyou only speak out against
things that impact you, and Iwas like kind of like you did
with Astroworld, and so peoplethere were a lot, because I

(10:33):
doubled down, there was a lot oflike hey, of people who love
them, and I'm like they don'tcare if you live or die
newsflash, um, but there was.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I got a lot of praise for it too, because I'm like,
well, I said what I said, yeahsomething that you doubled down
on right here, like you justspeaking about that moment,
saying, well, look, you makeyour comment people are gonna
hear and allow that comment toring a bell in so many different
ways, and then you even speakto where you double down on it
right and like look what'shappening.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm like this, this isn't important.
Related it to another moment.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's like she could have even just commented on
Balenciaga while still replyingto you, right?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
I mean, why did she have to say anything at all?
Because I feel like she knowsthe power and influence she has,
right, and so I'm sure itstruck a chord.
Yeah, it must have struck achord, yeah it must have struck
a chord.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
See, it's hard too because, like I think about, if
I'm ever in those moments, Iwould probably fuck it up and do
something wrong, Like I don'tknow if I have that same
psychological backing.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
They're not perfect and they're not required to be,
but it's like the fans.
It's like don't be real carefulabout putting your idols on a
pedestal.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Awesome, awesome.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
That's very well said , yeah, yeah, yeah, did your
like following go up from that.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, it was like, yeah, yeah it was on like news
channels.
Yeah, I know, entertainmenttonight or something, my ex at
the or well, boyfriend at thetime, but he was like, yeah, my
mom was like I saw julie on likeentertainment tonight, like
yeah like mom.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Would you see her on there?

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah Well, we always talk about that too.
It's like, is all publicitygood publicity?

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I'll take anything.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
I struggle with that because it's like I kind of
agree with the sentiment that,you know, controversy sells.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
It does.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Chaos sells, being bold sells, but it's like I'm
also someone who I'm, I can, Isee both sides.
So I think that might hinder mebecause I'm like, no, I can see
this, I can see this side.
But I think content does muchbetter when you're like no, like
very black and white, becauseit really inflames people, so
sometimes I will take a stand.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I'm like I can see the other side too well, I think
that's a tough part where youhave this version of the
psychological understanding.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, a lot of people turn that off.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right Like how.
How do you turn that off?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I have to like.
It's in the same way when Ilike consulted on marketing.
It's like there are what'sgoing to like, I would say, in
marketing and I would tell myclients.
It's like sell them on what theywant but give them what they
need, so it's like to get themin the door.
You can have something way morebold that is going to like
trigger what your client wouldwant or kind of like make the

(13:16):
content blow up and then sothat's kind of how I look at it.
It's like I might do somethingway more bold.
Or on the, especially on thetrust, I was like very like
sassy and bold and I was also myother self, but there's a lot
that like got cut out.
But then I can do things likethis and it's like we can have a
more long form conversation andit's like, well, I'm not that

(13:37):
crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, I don't think you're crazy at all.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
No.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I think context is important and you got to be fair
, yeah, and you got to rememberit's like an entire season is
only minutes of anything thatactually went on.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
I mean, I think people can't even understand
that until you like, go on areality TV show.
I know.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
I used to say too I'm like, oh, you got a bad edit.
I'm like they can't like makeyou say something that you
didn't say, and so I like that'swhat I've been asked.
A lot is like how real is it?
And I won't say like anythingreally got manipulated, that was
filmed, but it's like there'sway more context to it.
So sometimes, like emotions area lot more.
It's like you cut someoneelse's story out and then so you

(14:16):
kind of look stupid or just thething you say and you're like
wait.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
I just talk no wall, like somebody else provoked me
yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Sometimes even like the producers are like so like I
remember one time they werelike so Jake was there
gaslighting you and I was likehe was there gaslighting me and
it's like you can't fool me.
Oh, yeah, he was.
I'm like, yeah, it's like whenyou have your like best
girlfriend and they're likehyping you up.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's the same when you're Well.
For me I would be like reallysassy or say something.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I don't know.
Bitchy maybe is a betteradjective, Don't you worry, so
do I.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
But then it's like they're like hyping you up and
they're laughing and I'm like,ah, this, like I'm killing it
with this comedy bit, I'm goingto keep going.
And then they like cut all theother stuff out and you just
have a line where you sound likethe worst person alive.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm like and it's it's wild to know that that's
someone's job, like somebody Iknow has perfected that I love
that for them.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
I think it's same I can't even be mad because I'm
like.
You got me okay that's asuperpower we were talking about
this.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
We were talking about this yesterday.
Actually like reality tv.
He was like cass, are you likeamping yourself up with the
podcast to like be on?
To go on a show tv and I'm likeno, that's not where my mind
was going at all.
So I think about someone likethat's not where my mind was
going either.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
I know, I didn't think so.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
But I'm like you know you're putting out this content
that's, like you know,provoking people in certain ways
around psychology.
So I'm like, how did you getcast on the show, or was that it
was?

Speaker 3 (15:39):
separate, okay, completely separate.
So it was like, right when Istarted, started my TikTok,
which isn't how I was found, soI wasn't doing the like
psychology dives of like thecelebrities or anything but when
, like I said, when I leftMontana, I had gone through a
breakup, so I still had, I think, like a photo of me, my ex on
there and a casting directorreached out and he was like hey,

(16:00):
well, you and your boyfriendinterview for Temptation Island.
And I was like oh, oh, we brokeup so that won't be happening
and he's like oh well, like youcould actually interview still
to be like one of the hotsingles.
Do you want to do that?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
don't you worry, I have another option and I was
like I've never thought about it.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
I'm like shit, I'm not doing anything, like I just
moved and might as well.
And so I interviewed and I gotreally far in the casting
process, um, like up to thepoint where they're like, okay,
everything's done, this is whereyou're, when your flights would
be be on standby.
And then they called me andthey're like, yeah, you're
actually the alternate.
And I was really like sad aboutit and I was like, well, that
was stupid.

(16:37):
Why was that put into my life?
Like I was even looking forthat.
Yeah, what a waste of my time.
And then so a whole year goes byand I'm just like living my
life, doing my thing.
And the same casting directorcalled me and he's like, hey,
there's this new show.
He's like I can't tell youanything about it, but I
remember you from your interview.
He's like I loved you.
I can't believe they didn'ttake you.

(16:57):
And he's like, um, will youinterview for this?
And I'm like I like I had stillhas kind of a sour taste in my
mouth from it.
But I'm like, yeah, I guess.
And then, but I really kept myexpectations low because I saw
how fast it can like get takenfrom you, even on the day you're
supposed to fly out.
So I really didn't take itseriously and I was like I
probably won't get it.

(17:18):
I didn't tell my work that I wasleaving like I had gotten a new
apartment with the salary I wasmaking out like the other job
yeah and, um, like I have a dog,all this stuff, so I wasn't
making any plans to leave andthen they told me that I got the
show and it was like, oh my god, like what do I wear?
What do I bring?
They're like don't worry aboutit.
People will call you.
It'll all be like done andthey're like but you leave in

(17:38):
five days.
Wow, it was like okay, told my.
I was like can I have the timeoff?
They're like no, you cannot.
I was like a week away from Iwas supposed to get like a
$15,000 signing bonus and I wasa week away from that and so and
they're like well, if you leave, you can't come back.
You have the signing bonus.
So that also influenced some ofmy decisions on the trust where

(18:00):
it's like you guys are fine, mydecisions on the trust where
it's like you guys are fine, andI would say that I'm like some
of you guys are going back to alife like you have parents, you
have jobs, you have this.
I'm like.
First of all, I got that it wascrazy because I got the $15,000
offer in the trust and I waslike, haha, there's my signing
bonus and I was like I have totake it so that's like a sign
that it was like the same amountof money, kind of pretty much

(18:21):
more money right yeah, it'scrazy

Speaker 2 (18:24):
and yeah, I mean that divine timing with a bit of
like fear behind, like hey, isthis decision gonna like ruin?

Speaker 3 (18:31):
but also like I was.
I was competitive when I wentin.
I didn't know that the show wasgoing to be competing for money
.
None of us knew that.
But I had a feeling becausethey did ask me a lot about my
past and my views on money, andso I was like maybe money will
be involved.
And I remember in my hotel roomand I was like, because they
like quarantine us kind of, andI was like, if this is about
money, like I'm gonna get thatback.

(18:51):
I'm not like nice.
I'm going back to like trailerpark Julie and survival mode.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm, I'll do whatever is it okay to ask how much you
won or?

Speaker 3 (19:01):
yeah, it was like, uh , like 67 000 that's awesome 7
800 yeah that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I mean because you, you also think about that.
That amount of money can changeanybody's tomorrow, but for
sure, the way in which you'replanning for the next year to
five to ten yeah like that'sawesome, good for you yeah,
that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
But I mean I feel like people like did your
friends know that you were likegoing on the show?
Like what happened?
You're not supposed to tell?

Speaker 3 (19:27):
anyone, okay, um.
So it was like I had to tell,like you know, get my dog like
watched and stuff.
So there is like some peopleI'm like they will literally
think I died did you get yourdog back?
Yes, I did, but like I didn't.
Well, I'm not close to myfamily so I like didn't tell
them at all.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
And I love my dog, oh , my.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
God, what so cute, that's crazy.
That's a beautiful dog, butyeah, so I didn't tell my family
.
I turned on my phone after amonth, didn't care.
I'm like okay if I die, like noone no one I guess.
Um, there are some friends toowho it was like they didn't ask
me really if I was like okay,but they kept sending me like
party invites because like Southby Southwest, and I was like I

(20:11):
guess that's sweet like theydidn't care that I was like not
replying, they just kept likefaithfully being like, if you
want to come so there was that.
And then I did have some of mylike followers.
They're like hey, julie, Ihaven't seen you.
I hope you're doing okay.
Yeah, but yeah, you couldn'tsay anything.
I had a bit after that.
I would be at a party.
People like where were you?
And I was like rehab, but itwould be funny, you could be

(20:32):
drinking.
You're like, really, I'm like,yeah, that's because it went
great.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I'm cured the.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
You went on the show.
You already had like a lot oflike a big following, right yeah
, she just disappeared, you knowyeah.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Which is almost, like I want to say, probably
opposite of some of those otherfolks on the show, because they
maybe didn't have a following,but they, as you said, you can
go back home to mommy, daddy,aunt, uncle, and they could take
care of you financially.
And you're like, I have afollowing, but I I have to get
this bad.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
I'm like I don't have a safety net yeah all and even
like leaving my job, like Isobbed on like the phone with
them, like I it's like maybe Ishouldn't do this I just had a
gut feeling, but I'm like, yeah,there's no safety net that's
awesome did you have like thatintuition, like telling you like
go, yeah, yeah I think it'sawesome because you bet on
yourself.

(21:21):
Yeah, I think, when you bet Ididn't know it was netflix.
I didn't know.
I'm like this could be oneepisode.
I didn't know how long I'd begone for, um, no clue what I was
going to be doing that's soscary, yeah, but I will say like
once we took our blinds fullfold off and I like looked
around, I was like I got thisyeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
So how does that work ?
So you get cast on the showthey I know they quarantine you
right.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Well, when we get there, we still don't know what
the show is.
So I show up to DominicanRepublic.
There's this guy who has myname on the sign.
It says Julie Lynn, so nowyou're my last name, and it
doesn't speak English and I like, point to me, I land and I was
like maybe this is part of theshow, like maybe there's social.
They're gonna kidnap me orthey're trafficking me, I don't
know like you don't, you reallydon't know.
I really don't know.

(22:04):
So I'm like, okay, and I justget in the car that says
something.
I think about all of us too.
I'm like, damn, everyone elsemust be y'all, y'all, y'all are
a little trusting.
I know, yeah, low trust.
Trust issues outside of thehouse, high trust issues inside
of the house.
But yeah, I was like if they'retrafficking me, they're doing

(22:25):
such a good job that.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
I appreciate it, hard workers, so they, yeah, anyways
, I get there, we get into ourhotel, but then it's kind of
like you have production come inand they're like hi, not being
trafficked, but you have to stayin your hotel room.
They tape the like the door,look thing out, so you can't
like see, you can't leave yourroom.
They have to walk you down tolike dinner.

(22:50):
You get like 30 minutes.
It kind of was like rehab Maybe.
I've never been to rehabactually.
Sure, but 30 minutes of likefree, like outside time, oh,
sunlight time You're in jail.
In jail.
Yeah, so yeah.
And then that was that for liketwo days, and then we would go
and film kind of like our veryfirst interview, to be like hi,
I'm Julie, I'm from Austin, andthen when we were ready to

(23:13):
actually film, still had no cluewhat the show was.
They blindfolded all of us,which also fake, fake eyelashes,
and it's like messed up, it'shot, I'm like.
I feel like I look so ugly thatfirst day especially.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Did they give you all like pool time?
I'm like, how did you Like Iwould have been so mad?

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, this was the first day Like.
So this is before we like getin the house, so, anyways, we're
blindfolded.
And then they were finally likeyou can unblindfold yourself,
so it's they start having peoplewalk down, but we're spaced out
so we're not allowed to talk toeach other.
But I can see like who's infront of me and I'm not supposed
to turn around, and there'slike Mama J was right in front

(23:49):
of me and she's like 70.
So what Like?
And then I see Tolu, who's infront and she's like wearing her
like nigerian print dress thatI thought I was like they cast
like a nigerian princess.
And then I see a cowboy and I'mlike what the fuck kind of show
is this like?
There's we all look sodifferent like what is this
going to be?
and then so the opening scene,where you really do see us all

(24:12):
like get down there and we'rekind of like looking around.
And then brooke baldwin.
She explains the concept ofwhat we're going to be doing.
So if you guys don't know, 11strangers.
She's like you all just want aquarter of a million dollars
free and you can go through thewhole house and just share it.
Or you can vote someone, or youguys can have the choice to
vote some people out of thetrust and take more money for
yourself.
So like we're all, like thatwas very genuine, like we.

(24:35):
That was the first time we weretold what the show was and what
we're going to be doing did youhave any motivation to do that
like?
um well, I did end up voting alot of people out yeah so, um,
yeah, but I know if you wouldhave done it the very first,
when everyone was standing there, because that was the only time
it was public.
She's like you guys can startnow.
Like anyone who's going to dothat, you're going to have a

(24:56):
target on your back so right, noone's going to do that, but the
very first one.
Yeah, like we voted.
Yeah, I'm out, glenn I don'ttrust you well, like, even like,
so, just like.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I guess, being a female, I'm like I'm thinking
like hair wardrobe when you'relike, I know, on this show,
because if you're gonna go onreality tv, you want to look
good, right, yeah so, yeah, no,I was like I had enough time to
get my nails done, like couldn'tget my hair done, like you're
you literally are just bringingthe clothes that you have.
Ok, so you bring.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
you brought the clothes, having no idea like
exactly what outfits you needthey told us they're like bring
like like 10 outfits that wouldbe like nice evening, 10 casual,
10 like swim and 10 likeworkout ones and take pictures
and we'll like make sure weapprove it.
So that's literally justwhatever was in your closet.

(25:43):
So I was also working full-time, like yeah, the day I left do
you feel like you arrive withsome more clothes?
Uh, no, no okay I'm like, I'mlike.
What kind of question is that I?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
don't know guys, guys , because the other thing that I
hardly even wear work clothesto work.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
okay, the other thing is that they said don't hit
women's tattoos, because.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
the other thing that I hardly even wear work clothes
to work.
Okay, the other thing is thatthey said don't worry, the
clothes will be taken care of.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Well, they're like, wardrobe will call you Like.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Yeah, so no, we all the clothes are our clothes.
But I was just like what do Iwear?

Speaker 2 (26:14):
And they're like don't worry about it was just
like wardrobe will be like packthis yeah but yeah but I think
honestly that too, with some ofthe reality tv shows, you get a
little bit more of an authenticversion of people that's what
they want.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
They're wearing it, they're all you.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
They want you to be off base yeah a lot of women
talk about that that go on likesome of the dating shows,
because you can't tell peoplethat you're going on the shows.
So then you can't go to like aboutique or a brand or be like
hey, like can you give me somestuff because I'm going to go on
a show, you know?
So it's like you're either likefronting your own money to like
buy all these outfits and hopeit works out, and it's good,

(26:55):
it's reality TV, so it'ssupposed to be more like it
would be like very.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
You kind of see it in shows where it's reality tv but
people have, uh, it's like,look at the selling sunset like
we're seizing here to like now.
They're totally different.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah yeah, but then it now brings me to another
point where it's like I hear youjust make jokes, right, yeah,
you make jokes, while we're justlike just going through
questions, having ourconversations.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Here I can see where that may be hard to digest on a
show I know, imagine all theother stuff getting cut out and
just like for my sentences andI'm like losers like yeah well,
everything was.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I thought I thought we were kiki, so literally right
, because, like, even I rememberthe one episode I was watching
and, like they're talking about,you went to parties where they
weigh women and that was up.
Yeah, let's talk about it.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
That was everywhere.
And what is even more sad aboutthis and getting your humor.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I'm like I love it.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
It wasn't even humor.
I talked about this in such anintelligent way.
And so this goes back to Austin.
Is I was there like like, oh,what's it like being in Austin?
I'm like, well, you know, likeit's crazy.
I'm in these like social circlesand it's these like
multi-millionaires and there'sall this alcohol or drugs like
it's a very insane lifestyle andI'm like, but it's very.
There are these like unspokenrules, and I'm sure anytime you

(28:12):
kind of get in those like uppercircles and like it's very well
known that the value of a man ison his net worth and the value
of a woman is on the way shelooks.
And I'm like I went to a partyone time and there was a scale
outside of the door.
No one was being weighed.
They were like the people arebeing assholes and it was like a
joke and they're like, oh no,fat chicks, and that's like
crude and there's so many thingswrong with that.

(28:33):
But it was like just anobservation that I had.
I'm like, but a scale doesn'tneed to exist for women to know
that there are these unspokenrules and we have to make those
choices then.
So for me it's like, do I leaninto this?
Like pretty privilege.
I think a lot of women have togo through that.
Do we lean into this likepretty privilege in this small
patriarchal system where it'sdesigned to hold us back and we

(28:54):
mostly do not benefit?
Or do we take advantage of thesmall piece that we have,
knowing it's demeaning ofourselves, but I can still
benefit?
That is exactly how I said it,all that all that got cut out.
So when we so they, but theytook secrets like from, like
they were interviewing me andthat, so that was.
That was during castinginterviews and they all took,
like you know, just the mostunhinged things we said.

(29:14):
So we also didn't know.
So I think some people think wechose our own secrets.
That wasn't true.
The production chose that and Iget it.
It's very like I've I told thatstory to my therapist and she's
like what?
Like that's crazy and like, butno one is being weighed and it
is wrong.
And I know some people likewell then you shouldn't have
gone to that party, and I'm likeit's, we are all faced with
that, though that we have tolike it's not my advocacy arena.

(29:37):
Um, I'm like, I get your pointand I also.
It wasn't my scale, it wasn'tmy party, it wasn't my like.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, it wasn't like you were going back to that
party every Saturday at 12.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yeah, and I get it Like.
There is a part where it's likeoh, you know what you, you know
, let pass you permit Fair.
However, it's like that's notthe only example where we look
the other way and it's like bothparties, both men and women, we
don't benefit in those systemsand I'm like but I also didn't
create the, this patriarchalsystem, yeah, but I do.

(30:09):
I have to make a choice of do Ibenefit?
And then even on the show, Iget faced with that and I've,
like you know, with therelationship that I had with
jake and I've gotten a lot ofhate with that.
It's like, oh, you're not agirl's girl.
Like just blatant slut shamingfor it.
Like, yeah, I'm going to likeflirt and I'm going to
manipulate and I'm going to usethis to my advantage.
You could see it like oh,that's the worst thing that you
could do.
Maybe, yeah, I'm gonna win.

(30:32):
Like there's.
Yeah, sometimes I'm gonna lookthe other way and I'm like I'm
going to win and yeah, I took.
I knew the.
These things exist, though,whether I take benefit in them
or not, for sure.
So I'm gonna take benefit.
Have you ever?

Speaker 1 (30:46):
seen mad men.
It's like it's just even goingback to, like you know, like the
1950s or whatever, when womenfirst started their corporate
careers, like they had a lot ofthem had to take advantage of
like pretty privilege, you know,being around men for the first
time, having careers, beingsecretaries, and so you're just
hitting the nail on the head oflike this has always been an

(31:07):
issue and you can either look atpretty privilege to your
advantage.
I mean, I feel like it'susually seen as like a negative
thing, but it could just be likeyou're magnetic and you're
taking advantage of that.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
There are so many systems we don't benefit in.
So, I'm like, yeah, if this isa small one, but I'm like I get
it kind of like lets the monsterlive.
But I'm like it's exactly whatI was talking about in marketing
how some people are like, oh,that's manipulative, that you're
teaching that, but if I'm notdoing it, another corporation is
going to.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
And you want to get your point across.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I would rather have myself at the top, knowing that
at the end of the day, after allthis strategy for me to get to
the top, I am a loving andcaring person and I have plans
to do good in this world, versussomeone who is not that way.
Truly so, I'm like.
I actually think there's abenefit to me.
I think that's like commendable, because I feel, like.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
That's you having your own back and showing up for
yourself.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You know and knowing, at the end of the day, all we
have is like ourselves, truly,you know but you bring up a
point too that I think should bediscussed a little bit more of
how do you like your male kindof fans versus female fans
approach you online?

Speaker 3 (32:17):
um, it's interesting.
So, like before the show Idefinitely had like my tiktok
audience was like 98 female sureand it actually still is pretty
like heavily female.
My audience on instagram ispretty heavily female.
My snapchat audience is likevery male.
Everyone's so nice to me onsnapchat I like never had a snap
until I was like now I'm acreator on there so I can like
make money, so I'm on Snapchat.

(32:38):
But it's strange with like hatecomments Publicly, I get more
hate comments from women, whichis disappointing, and a lot of
them are like you're not agirl's girl, like you're not.
I'm like well, I've never beensuch a not girls girl that I'd
go to a stranger's strangewoman's page and just leave hate
comments.
But so, but yeah, I've had some, but I've had a very aggressive

(33:04):
like men in my like.
DMs to like I had this one guy.
He's like just so you know mygirlfriend wouldn't approve of
this, but, and just like I'm,but it was so hateful Like, oh,
it hit like any point like mylooks, my character, like just
in, really like crude anddisgusting like way.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And I'm like did you know this person?
No, yeah.
That's fucking weird.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, so I don't know .
It's like it's weird on bothsides.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Well, we're not like going down in the DMs, cause
like the worst shit happensthere too, but I was like, after
being on the show I feel likeyou know, did you have any like
celebrities kind of like hityour DMs, Like you get that
visibility and like you're abeautiful woman, you know, I'm
just like I feel like maybe thatopens the doors for dating a
little bit.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Um, I so when I was like in, we were all in Los
Angeles um after the show and itwas like that's when my social
media was popping off, so it wasreally easy to like go to
parties.
So like I took like Tolo and wewent with like FaZe Banks, and
that was cool, but it wasn'tanything like weird or yeah.
Yeah, so I feel like the accessto like parties was a lot easier

(34:14):
, especially like being in LAand then like, if you're in
Netflix, a lot of like theNetflix like universe is very
niche and that's its ownecosystem.
Yeah, so we all have that incommon.
So it's like they're like wefollow each other and stuff.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
And then I guess, now I want to know on the brand
side, like have you gotten likea very weird brand offering
since being on the show?
Not really, I honestly thought.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I would, no, I've and I probably wouldn't.
So hit me up, make it rain mysoul is for sale um, but yeah,
oh, that's not true.
I've gotten like a couple, butnothing like major, you know,
and I I kind of thought that Iwould, so it really I really
realized after and again I'mlike I'm glad I played that game

(35:01):
then because I there was a partof me that's like, oh, maybe I
should be more angelic on theshow and that will help me like
with America, the audience ofAmerica, and like brand deals
and stuff.
And I'm really glad I wasn'tbecause, just like my fear on
the show, I was like on theoutside of this I only have
myself to rely on, no one iscoming to save me.

(35:21):
And but I was like, oh, youknow, I'll be on Netflix.
Maybe everything will just likefall into my lap.
And it didn't.
So I still have that same likeresponsibility we all do to make
it happen for myself myself.
But it I'm sure it opened updoors, but it's like I have to
be the one to you gotta knock onthe knob yeah and like keep

(35:43):
going.
So nothing's been like a loteasier.
So I'm like god, I'm glad Ihave that money and like I'm
glad so I took that money.
I'm glad I voted people out.
I mean no regrets, I shouldhave voted more people out, yeah
I should have.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Would you do another reality tv show now, seeing like
the money that you've made fromdoing this show?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitelywould.
Do you have any shows that youwould like want to be on?

Speaker 3 (36:06):
I would.
So I've been interviewed like,but I don't think I can like say
already, but I'm not going asof right now.
So but it's like in, like Ifeel like another one's coming
see, yeah, I want the juicy yeah, I would.
I think I would do well on adating show.
Actually, um, because everyonealready like they're like you
made that into a dating show.
I'm like you guys are sowelcome.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
You got the best of both worlds.
Yeah, like anything's a datingshow if you're hot enough right
do you still keep in likecontact with any of the people
from?

Speaker 1 (36:35):
the show.
Yeah, what about Jake?

Speaker 3 (36:40):
No, jake, and I don't talk anymore.
It's tough, it's tough.
Whatever.
So we talked for a little bitafter the show, um, but well, I
think on both sides pretty much,I saw social media and I'm like

(37:01):
what the fuck this is?
We're, we're just verydifferent and our approach to
things.
But it was hard because, like,what people don't see, they're
like, ah, how could you likehe's so like this, what other
people say like misogynistic,racist, all this shit, and I'm
like, yeah, I did not approve ofthe content, but but I was like
I had a different relationshipwith him.
I'm like he was very and thisis another part that didn't
really get on the show.

(37:23):
This is the part that I'm madabout with editing, is it looks
like I'm way more like I'm inpursuit, but it really doesn't.
If you line some things up andI'm like, yeah, yeah, like him
trying to kiss me, me kind oflike putting it on the back
burner, um, and I was asked somuch, like while we were filming
the show, it's like why won'tyou move things forward with
Jake?
Why won't you move thingsforward?
I'm like I don't know.
I'm like I think that we're, uh, we have chemistry, but we

(37:44):
don't have compatibility and I'mfocused on the competition.
So I'm like I will sure, butI'm like it's nice to have
someone to flirt with, you know,but we also we did have a
relationship.
We lived with each other forlike a whole month and in that
like, jake was very likeprotective of me.
He, I, I saw him as like a verylike standup guy.
He talked about like being inthe military and like standing
up for like women and how theywould like psychologically mess

(38:07):
with the soldiers that way whenthey were like in camp and they
would hit women in front of thembecause they knew they're not
supposed to break.
And they're like if you everget, if you're ever a prisoner
of war.
So when I was hearing all that,I'm like wow, like I love the
way like you speak about thisand it was like so that was the
other thing is people really say, like you ruined the Women's
Alliance and I'm like well, thehard part is that I'm like I

(38:29):
kind of had the gut feeling andI ended up being sure that they
were like talking shit about me,that they would vote me out.
Um, I think as women we allhave those experiences like
you're very like a very bestfriend that one day like
betrayed you and you're like how, how could you?
Um, so it's like I went in withthose biases, but also it's
like it wasn't just biases.
I'm like y'all weren't, y'alldidn't fully like me yeah and so

(38:51):
I'm like you could feel it yeah, and I like said at one point
it's on the show, but they'relike you're not a girl's girl.
I'm like I am a girl's girl, butI'm not your girl that's a good
one like because you're notbeing like, and I'm like Jake is
not mad at me, like we couldfight so much and I still knew
like he was never gonna vote meout.
And I think again, it's kind oflike using that advantage as a

(39:11):
woman of knowing, you know, likea man that you like has the
idea of you but hasn't likelocked it down, like there's no
better like pursuit or loyaltyto like the kind of fantasy of
you, and that's, I'm sorry,that's basic human psychology
and I know I feel like I get introuble a lot for having that
level of awareness because it'slike, oh, because she's acting
on it, she's manipulative, I'mlike I can't turn it off.

(39:31):
I have all this information inmy brain so it's like I'm going
to benefit in it in the sectorswhere I know.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
The sad part is is like there's other people that
have that same experience inother lines of work Right, and
they manipulate that, thatinformation.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
So, like girl, you know I'm like it's a, it's a
show, so I'm like enjoy that,enjoy the entertainment of it.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
You're smart for education.
No one can use that against you.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Yeah, so, anyways, that all wrapped up, jake and I,
we I think you know we try totalk afterwards and we're like
can this work in the real world?
I think we just realized thatwe're not compatible on both
sides.
And then, when the show so then, and then I really like
distanced myself, I unfollowedhim.
And then the show is coming outand we see the trailer and like

(40:13):
our kiss is in it and I don'tknow if it was like him, him or
me, but or well, we were all ina group chat.
Some of us, not everyone, someof us were in a group chat and
we're like, haha, the trailer,no one's like, oh, julie, jake,
and I'm like and I think he waslike, hey, we should talk before
the show drops, like I feellike he's like what's up?

(40:34):
Like you're kind of in, distant, and I was like, oh, yeah, um,
and then we kind of like patchthings up and we're just like I
feel like friends.
But it was really hard becauseTolu and I have a really strong
friendship and they, they are atso at odds for so many
different reasons and some ofthose reasons are valid, of
course, and uh, which put me inthe middle the same way I felt

(40:55):
in the middle on the showbecause I'm like, okay, well, I
have this guy who's likeprotecting me, but then I have
like my best friend being like.
he is like saying like racistthings like now you're in real
life progression things so it'slike I was kind of in the same
predicament where I'm like, evenif we're just friends, it's
like I have loyalty to my girl,like who is actually my girl now
, and and like, but so anyways,um, once him and tolu had like a

(41:18):
public fallout.
Like we were all interviewed.
No one liked the interviewsabout each other, um, and the
articles were were spicy on.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Both sides.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
So jake really didn't like what tolu said.
He made three videos about herand I was like I have to like
take my girl's side and I waslike I'm on, I'm unfollowing you
like I can't see.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
It does sound to you yeah, you're such a girl's girl
for the girls that have yourback as well.
Yeah, and I have to think that,like going on the show, did you
notice that, like any of yourgirlfriends like maybe here in
Austin or friends that you hadkind of distance themselves from
like jealousy, like cause youknow you're doing well, you've

(41:58):
got a Netflix show?
You got the bag, girl, yeah, yougot the bag, even like coming
off the show, like walking awaywith that money.
Did you feel like people weretrying to take advantage of that
?
Like have you pay for dinners,pay for drinks, anything like
that?

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Well, we didn't get the money until after the show
aired, so I had that whole likeyear and, by the way, it's all
in crypto.
So, yeah, it's me for shit.
You want some?

Speaker 2 (42:23):
bitcoin yeah I do give me some, I would love some
yeah yes, I would if anyoneoffers you bitcoin.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
I love how this ties into like you being in crypto
before even going on the show.
Nice tie up.
Don't ask me for shit.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
And I'm up.
My portfolio's up there's somany ways.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Your humor keeps coming out and I'm just like.
I know it's so good.
It's messed up if you used itincorrectly.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Okay, well, that's good self-awareness for me to
have, I think, even worse thanthem distancing themselves.
They didn't distance themselves, but would be like that secret
hater friend of like underminingyou, saying those like like
where you can't exactly likefull out say it, but you can
feel it and it's like thosesmall sentences and I'm like I

(43:08):
wish people would, I distancemyself.
I don't put up with that shit,like so I will distance myself.
Um, but yeah, I didn't feelthat like no one distanced, but
I'm like they made themselves.
I was able to like take notes,take information, and then I
made subsequent decisions afterthat.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
And they make it's almost like that effort tries to
make you look crazy, but thenit's like wait, no, I'm.
I'm way more emotionallyintelligent than any of this
game you want to play.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah, I'm very I'm non-reactive.
And I think in that regard,like if you're already feeling
like jealousy and envious orenvy, that is an emotional
reaction.
So in any of the like kind of Idid have some fallouts, but I
would say like I was just I'mnot doing this and they like
flipped out.
So I'm like you look stupid.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, did that like also affect your dating.
Like once you got back here inAustin, like dating in Austin.
Like are you on the dating apps?
Like are people recognizing you?
Do you feel like they're tryingto date you?

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Because you've been on the Netflix show, you've got
the bag, you're beautiful, likeoh, everyone knows Austin,
dating in Austin is crazy, andso obviously it's like I came
back and then there was a wholelike year before like anything
came out.
So I was also pretty likeemotionally unavailable because
I thought I was, I was supposedto film another show in August,
or I thought so, didn't.
I ended up it fell through.
I didn't get it, um.
So when I first came back, Iwas like I'm not trying to like

(44:39):
date at all.
Then I like kind of was likehmm, this person, like there's
no way I'll like fall in lovewith you, like that's fine, um,
and like he didn't care thatlike I was on a show, like also
didn't didn't care aboutanything, including me, um, so
that that probably went on forlike too long.
Um, I know we talked about liketoxic relationships before this
yeah so.

(44:59):
But after that was done and theshow came out, I don't know, I'm
like, I don't know.
I'm not on the apps, I don't.
I don't date a lot and I Iwon't say yes to like a first
date.
Often I ignore my dms.
I'm still emotionallyunavailable, so good for you
yeah, I just I don't.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
It's not exciting to me yeah, it sounds like there's
so many ways you protect yourpeace yeah honestly.
It's like you protect yourpeace financially.
You protect your peaceemotionally.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
You protect your peace like just sharing yourself
with somebody and I think thathas to do with both of those
other different segments as wellyeah, I mean, I think it's
crazy for being an influencer,because in some ways, I think
like I seem very like open andI'm sharing a lot, but in like
real life, I'm like go sit overthere, yeah, I don't, don't
touch me, don't like talk to meyeah.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
I think you can share a lot of things but still be
like a very guarded person, likepeople really not know, like a
lot of things about you for sureand I think it's funny because
I was talking to you aboutnarcissists, because I had been
recently dating a guy and I wasasking you because I know, you
know you have your master'sdegree in psychology, and I was
like I think he's trying tobecome a client yeah, I'm trying

(46:08):
to learn.
I'm like um Julie.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Hey, we could have dated the same guy.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
I know, I know that's what that's what you're saying
is like, because I was tellingyou I'm drawn to narcissists and
you were like that's happenedto me too.
But I was like there was a guyI was dating where I think he
was like a true narcissist,where his eyes would like go
black, and I'm like I've neverexperienced that in my life.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I mean, I started getting on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I was like is this a psychopath?

Speaker 3 (46:37):
like I don't.
The I thing is so weird, likewhat drugs you on?
I think that is.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
It's like their pupils are so like yeah, open,
but yeah, we were saying it'salmost like they're not human,
like it felt, like I was lookingat a demon?
I don't know, yeah, yeah,people snapping that anger yeah
but do you, do you feel likeyou've been drawn to like
narcissists at all, or yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I think I'd say it's like my favorite flavor of human
.
Okay, well, let's get this out.
There are some good things,there's some positive qualities
about narcissists.
They're very charming, they'recharismatic, they're they're
like kind of sparkly they.
They, the ones I've dated arevery intelligent, like truly not
just pretending.
Intelligent, intelligent,successful.
They've been entrepreneurial.

(47:17):
I love a good chess game.
I think no matter who I date,hopefully I'll end up in a
healthy relationship and I havebelief for myself that I will.
But it's like I still need thatmental chess and narcissist
play.
I'm like you're a great chessplayer.
I value that, I think, becausethey ray on some of that extreme
side they're, they're exciting.
You can mistake that.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
But also I love how you have this like all listed.
Yeah well, I think about it.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
I think about it with myself I think about it quite
often, um, and if you grow up inan environment where love was
restricted and you had to earnlove, a narcissist becomes very
addicting.
And that's where, like I'vegotten judgment before, um, with
some of my relationships andlike, yeah, but you know

(48:03):
psychology and you know all this, I'm like I can cognitively
know it, but it would have beenimpossible for me to come from
like I grew up in extreme likeabuse and so I'm like to come
out of that and not have amessed up attachment style, like
people have messed upattachment styles and you know
they were, have had divorcedparents or maybe, like some
experience small emotionalneglect.
I'm like I, if you're beinglike physically abused, like

(48:25):
you're not going to come out ofthat.
So I'm like there's a part ofme that you know with a
narcissist you are always goingto pick someone who will never
choose you.
But you can always be in thatcycle of like can I prove myself
to be chosen and then you alsodon't feel like fully worthy of
being chosen.
But it's a very familiarenvironment.
I actually had my ex um, thenarcissist asked me.
He was like, like you know, atthis point he was being kind of

(48:46):
self-deprecating.
But he's like you know, why areyou even with me?
And I think you want me to likehype him up.
He's like why are you even withme?
And I'm like because youreaffirm all of my childhood
wounds that I'm not good enoughit's so self-aware, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, I mean I feel like we can be.
We can be self-aware and thenstill be like delusional and
like kind of going for thenarcissistic people.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
I think.
Don't forget, though, that,like I was thinking about this
kind of on the drive of yeah,saying you were going to talk
about dating, and I do.
I will say, though, I thinkthat one of the problems with
dating is the level ofself-responsibility that we
don't have in Austin, I think,is running a little bit rampant.
There's a lot of victimbehavior of like oh, like my, it
was my ex's fault, and andnarcissistic abuse is terrible.

(49:28):
Like abuse shouldn't happen.
However, I'm like where is theline where we do take
responsibility from it?
And I'm like I see the memes.
I make some of the memes.
I think they're funny.
Um, I get it.
I get that.
Yeah, there is such humor inhonesty and it being like, oh
god, like I feel seen.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
However, don't forget that, like you can also choose
different, because it's funny tolike make fun of our past
selves, but to use that tovalidate your current behavior,
it's like cool, then stay stuckyeah right, yeah, I love that,
and I think it's interesting too, because I feel like you talk a
lot about the way that men andwomen bond, which is so
different.

(50:06):
Yes, and I was gonna.
I wanted to bring this upbecause roger is here.
It's what I love about havingamel co-host, because I know you
did a video talking aboutvasopressin.
Yes, right, and that's like isthat what's released when a
man's bonding?
Is that what it is, vasopressin?

Speaker 3 (50:20):
yeah, so um, I don't remember.
Let me go in the archives of mybrain, okay, okay.
So yeah, women uh bond mainlythrough oxytocin and that's
released uh, you know it's thecuddle hormone, but also it's
like released when you have sex,when you orgasm.
So that's why I like reallycaution women.
I'm like this isn't even fromlike me being approved, but it's
like do not sleep with thesemen, because you will end up

(50:42):
attracted.
Men do release a level ofoxytocin, but they also um
release uh, what's, uh, what'sthe main meal, one that you take
steroids for Testosterone?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Testosterone yes.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Thank you, I'm not stupid, I knew it no.
Testosterone.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I'm getting my lesson right now.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
So they also release testosterone which blocks a lot
of the oxytocin and so,especially when they first have
sex with you, in whatever orgasm, they actually like you less
because not enough oxytocin isreleased.
However, oxytocin in the bodywill get released if they have
already built up vasopressin.
Vasopressin can get releasedwhen we solve a challenge, when

(51:22):
we in some like in stress thatyou can solve, but it also is
released in like mate guardingbehavior.
But pretty much they have tolike, actually like you, and
that has to be and it's thepursuit.
Vasopressin is a big likepursuit one.
So also I knew this going inagain with the trust I'm like
even with kissing I'm like themore I like kind of hold off

(51:45):
number one because I'm like ifwe kiss now, this is so much
stuff.
I I haven't said this in aninterview, but I'm like like
there was strategy.
I'm like if we kiss now, we'regonna have to like keep
progressing our relationship.
Yeah, to like who you know itjust has to keep moving forward
or else he's gonna like feelrejected.
So I'm like I have to likereally hold off on this, to like
make sure everyone is likeplaying into my chess game.

(52:06):
My, so I can keep being thepuppet master sure um.
So again, I'm like, the longeryou wait and the more that
there's the pursuit there andthat pursuit really has to be
there.
So there is a huge downside towomen sleeping with men way
quicker and we're we're notbenefiting and like I think
there's this, this wave offeminism of like you know, do
what you want with your body anddo it, but it's like you, we

(52:29):
are losing out, like so yeah,it's not trying to do that.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Isn't vasopressin also released, like when you
stress?

Speaker 3 (52:39):
a man out, I think I think, yeah, yeah, so it is, but
it's like, um, you know like itshould be stressed.
Vasopressin is uh best release.
It's like stress you can solve.
If you're like a chronic painin the ass and you have like
your relationship is justunhealthy, that ends up being a
stress you can't solve.
And when men have stress theycan't solve, then they're
releasing cortisol and that thechemicals that are released then

(53:00):
will lead to uh like erectiledysfunction, being overweight,
depression, anxiety.
So that's the kind ofdifference.
So if you're like, okay, how canI like stress him out a little
bit?
It's like, instead of stressinghim out, give him a problem
that he can like solve.
Like have him decide where yougo to dinner, even with um like
if a man's like parking and I'veI've had to do this, it's not

(53:20):
good to be like, oh, go parkover there, like I really shut
up, and it's like you can lethim solve the problem of parking
, even like they don't like whenyou step in and like reduces
their like masculinity, like letyour man park.
Don't be like the passengerseat.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I'm over here getting like tall.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Yeah.
So there's like stuff and I'mlike, yeah, I have things to say
, but there are kind of like apick your battles so he can like
solve some of those problems.
And it's not unhealthy, ofcourse, you can create a trauma
bond with someone for sure.
But a trauma bond will onlywork with people who are
unhealthy.
You'll never be able to like.
You might be able to keep thatperson, you to keep that person.
You keep them for a long time,but what kind of quality
relationship do you want?
Um, so if I was trying to getsomeone to bond with me, I could

(53:56):
do that.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Maybe I would short term well, I look at some bonds
that I've had as a man and it'slike there's some bonds that
I've had where a lot of that,what kept me going back, was
that solving of a problem, orlike feeling as if I had that
answer.
And it's, and it might like I'mnot one where I'm like, oh, I
know all the answers or this orthat, but it is addicting, like

(54:18):
it really is addicting, whereyou almost want to help, you
almost really want to be a partof somebody that shows like
you're activating yourmasculinity for sure man doesn't
do that either.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Like do not be with him, he is a bad partner.
If you kind of give him aproblem, he kind of crumbles or
like what do you think like?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
bad yeah but then it's like I bulldoze those men.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
That's the same dude in Austin, though I don't know
if that's healthy, but I'm likemy feminine is not activated,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
No, yeah, I'm like well, now I have to problem
solve because you're a shitproblem solver.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Now I'm mad be that it's the same dude in austin,
though that can potentially fallunder that like heavy painted
coat of like oh, you're justthat narcissist.
But then there's also versionsof like.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Well, if that is true , this is how it is so this
plays into some of that as wellokay, so get that.
This is the polarity.
So in traditional masculine,feminine polarity, you would
want, if you want to be themasculine, to have your thoughts
respected.
In the feminine energy, thehighest value is to have your
feelings cherished.

(55:21):
With a narcissist, they wantboth their thoughts respected
and their feelings cherished,while doing neither of it for
you.
So they're the polarity doesn'texist in there.
Like to have a truly health I, Ibelieve healthy relationship.
The usually it's the man, butcan be gender, but one of them
has to decide which one do youwant to be?
So I think, as a woman, when wekind of are those bold dozers

(55:43):
or I naturally lean into likemasculine, I have to be really
careful.
In my relationship with a manit's like, well, do I want my
thoughts respected or do I wantmy feelings cherished?
And that's hard for me.
Like I'm an intelligent, likewoman, like I go to and I used
to really go to battle and Idon't do it anymore because I'm
like you can have your thoughtsrespected, just like I would
want, even if I think I'msmarter, and I want my feelings
cherished, even if you think I'mfucking crazy and being

(56:05):
irrational.
So that's what I have chosen,but you'll know if you're with a
narcissist when they don'trespect your thinking.
They won't cherish yourfeelings and they require both
and that's where you kind of getlike, like, why, like you are
actually the emotional one, whyam I?
like carrying you kind offeeling like I'm doing the
masculine work but also like I'mgetting nothing out of this

(56:26):
shit rock my world.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
I know I'm like, oh, it's a great way to tell not
only is it a great way to tellit's like, it's also a great way
to lead into our last questionwhich is what's the biggest
misconception about you?
But now I'm like I'm kind ofI'm, I'm tuned into your dating
life.
Do you have like a really baddating story you want to share
before misconceptions?

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
I was stabbed by an ex one time.
What, wait, what, what, wait,what, what?
Yeah, that was a while ago.
Wait by what?
By a butcher knife in my leg.
I have like the scar on my leg,but I don't mean to, I'm not
laughing at you.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Well, I'm not laughing at you.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
That's like crazy.
I just can't even believe thatactually happened.
Why?

Speaker 3 (57:19):
He's mad at me.
Oh, that's crazy.
Yeah, is it?
We'll just leave it at that fornow.
Um, but the same part.
I jumped out of a moving car tolike get away from him too.
so, okay, I'll take it there.
Yeah, I have him.
But and well, that story is alittle bit more funny, because I
remember being like pull over,let me out, and we were like
kind of on a dirt road and he'slike absolutely not, and I was
like kind of like open the doorand i's like absolutely not.
And I was like kind of likeopen the door and I'm like he's
not going to like call it, likehe's not going to call my bluff,
and I opened the door and helike keeps driving.

(57:42):
And I remember like lookingdown at the ground and I'm like
that doesn't look so bad and Ijumped out.
But that's literally whatinertia is.
It's like an object of motionwill stay in motion.
And then I got up and I likestarted like running and he was
like an athlete, so I got caughtin like two seconds.
That's kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
We all have some of those stories in our closet, you
know?

Speaker 3 (58:05):
Yeah maybe I think there's a lot of misconceptions,
but I think that will alwayshappen with.
I think I have a dynamicpersonality and like kind of how
we started the podcast isbecause I don't have one box.
There will be a lot of thingsum, I'm sure I've heard a lot of

(58:26):
it like the most vile woman onearth.
Yeah, I don't even know whatpeople say anymore.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I think, after just having exposure here to you on
this episode, like you are moredynamic than you present
yourself to be.
You are like so many otherthings that I think the world
really should know.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
And I mean.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
It's not so good for marketing, though.
Like kind of going back to that.
Like people don't love always adynamic character.
It's harder to like read across, and I actually think that the
producers on the trust wanted togo there with um and this is
actually a new thing thatthey've started to do in movies
is presenting this um morallyambiguous character, sure.
So you have like walter whitefrom breaking bad, denarius

(59:06):
targaryen, so this ends up kindof they have like an anti-hero
or antagonist, um,characteristics about them, like
they have that dark side, butbecause they have a backstory,
you empathize with them and youunderstand them.
So this is newer in mediabecause before, when they try,
it's like people are verycomfortable with like good
versus evil.
That's how it should be.

(59:27):
People aren't very comfortablewith the gray area.
So prior to where we're at now,those characters didn't ever
perform very well.
And now we're like kind ofgetting to a place where people,
I think, are craving morecharacters that are dynamic and
interesting and we like see someof ourselves and now we realize
the world isn't like so blackand white.
I also think it's anintelligence thing of if you
really like those characters,you you know that it's like we

(59:50):
all make those decisions andit's in the gray.
And I do feel, feel, and that'show I feel about myself in
general that I was put on thetrust because I'm not black or
white.
There's parts where it's like,oh my gosh, she did a bad thing,
she manipulated, she lied, butit's like, but I can, I can see
why, Like she had to provide forherself and all that.
So I think they actuallyattempted to do that, but it

(01:00:15):
takes.
It's actually really hard to doin storytelling when you're
writing even a book of how do Ilike make this character just
right, so people like them andthey don't, and that it requires
time and requires, like a depthof their backstory to be
developed.
I really like, um, this is likethe psychology of storytelling,
which I really love yeahobviously um and yeah, so they
uh.
it's kind of a new thing.
But yeah, you need a lot oftime to develop that story and I

(01:00:37):
don't think it came across sowell on a reality show because
we don't have enough time.
There's not a second seasonabout me, there's only like
certain parts.
I actually think I got amazingscreen time.
Very happy with that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
But yeah, so I actually think they were
attempting to portray me asambiguous and kind of this, this
gray character, because theyhad like kind of all good and I
don't know, maybe some villains,but some people are just like
nah, I'm villain, yeah, yeah, Imean, I see, where they're going
with the vision you have a lotto offer and even you just
explaining that I think of amovie that I just watched.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Um, I don't, I'm gonna get the name wrong.
I'm actually.
I want to get the name wrongbecause I want to be able to
make sure we can use the clip.
It's salt, something, I thinkit's like salt burn yeah when
you like them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Yeah, they do this.
Build up, yeah, build up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
It took it was the entire movie.
Yeah and then you get to theend and you're like you're sick,
mm-hmm, but like it's likeAnakin star or Anakin Skywalker.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
It's kind of like when I'm like I like this guy,
but then it's like you know andI don't like the salt burn but
it's like he's sick.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
But they give.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
They give you background some of the things
that went on yeah, and you'relike I don't, I would never now
we have full movies about thevillain like the joker, like
yeah it's like, yeah, you'redoing all this bad thing, but
it's like that's the maincharacter.
Yeah, there's part of you thatgets it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah you the joker.
You hear people making fun ofthe guy he's.
He deals with a, a disease, andlike abuse of mom yeah, I think
that's what's hard too, though,because you have, like main
character, energy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Oh, you just do yeah, you, you like come in a room
and you like light it up, soyeah, well, thank you so much
for coming on our pod.
Before I let roger close it out, where can people find you on
like social media?

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Yes, I'm on all the social medias you can find me on
.
You pretty much type my name inJulie Tice T-H-E-I-S, but I'm
Julie Tice official on Instagram, Julie Tice on TikTok, Julie
Lynn Tice on Snapchat.
I might combine them, but I was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I was.
I was going to give you a hardtime when you said you were on
Snapchat.
No but you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Snapchat is the highest paying creator fund
right now I made.
I did a podcast before this onethat came out before I was on
it and I was like we're making,we're roasting Snapchat, we're
like this is for like people whocan't grow up and but Snapchat
is like the nicest one to me.
Everyone's so nice on Snapchat.
I'm like I hate you guys onInstagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
And they pay.
As you said, the people arenice and it's almost like a
younger generation.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
They give you crystals.
Yeah, what?

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
I need to get back on .

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Snapchat.
You have to be a creator,though.
Oh, I'll create something.
I know, whenever I putsomething out there that doesn't
give me crystals, I'm likewhere am?

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
I, why did I do this does?

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
that convert to bitcoin exactly yeah we'll see.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Yeah, can I have bitcoin instead of crystals?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
well, we want everybody to come back next week
.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
This episode has been awesome it's a pleasure to meet
you guys uh, julie, the h issilent, very similar to nice.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
so, julie, tice t Uh, very, it was a pleasure to have
you.
Thanks, I want everybody tocome back next week because we
know it's going down.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Thanks, guys, this is good, this was so good.