November 26, 2024 • 34 mins
In Episode 194 of Paper Napkin Wisdom, Govindh Jayaraman welcomes Stefanie Fox, an influential leader in the salon industry who has made it her mission to empower salon owners and stylists to build fulfilling, sustainable careers. Stefanie’s insights extend far beyond the beauty industry. She offers lessons in self-awareness, resilience, and leadership that apply to entrepreneurs and leaders across all sectors.
Stefanie is a coach, speaker, and visionary who has helped salon owners address the often-overlooked aspects of business: people management, retention, and culture. She’s a data enthusiast who understands the neuroscience behind emotional states and decision-making, making her approach both practical and scientifically grounded. Through her work, Stefanie addresses a unique yet universal challenge: how to lead authentically while managing moments of self-doubt and uncertainty.
Embracing Vulnerability as a Path to Growth
Stefanie candidly shares her struggles with what she calls “doubt days”—those moments when self-doubt, insecurity, or a challenging situation can cloud judgment and hinder progress. Rather than masking these moments, Stefanie’s approach involves acknowledging and embracing them. “I have a ton of doubt days,” she admits, “but I’ve learned that making decisions on those days actually limits my success.”
For Stefanie, recognizing these days has been transformative, both in her personal life and as a business leader. She talks about the importance of emotional self-regulation, pointing out that many people expect leaders to always appear confident and certain. However, she challenges this notion by demonstrating that vulnerability, paired with intentional practices, can actually enhance leadership. “When I actually just recognize that this is not a decision-making kind of day, I can step back and give myself the space to realign,” Stefanie explains.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:02):
Stephanie Fox. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm so excited to have you here with me today.
Stefanie (00:07):
Thank you. I'm excited. I was so excited when you reached out because we met many years ago, so it was nice to hear from you, and I love the work you're doing. So. I was honored to be asked to join.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:17):
Yeah, let's give a shout out to Jason while we're here. Right.
Stefanie (00:19):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:20):
Brought us together. We shared a a stage to do a round table when we're talking about culture in the organization. And you've you've taken this work and gone a lot further with it, and I'm sure that's going to come out in your napkin. But you shared a really like I can't wait to get into it. So you shared an interesting napkin with me.
Don't make decisions on the doubt days. Why did you share that with me?
Stefanie (00:43):
Yeah, because in my work
I spend a lot of time on stages. I work with a lot of people on inspiration and leadership.
And I realized that
it means people often perceive
that I don't have doubt days
right, that I just am full of inspiration, and like I'm always positive. And I always know what to do and like they kind of paint this picture of what they deem success around me, and the reality is.
(01:09):
I have a ton of doubt days.
But what I have learned is that if I make decisions on those doubt days
I hinder my success because I'm not thinking clearly, I'm being driven by emotions.
And when I actually just recognize that like, this is not a decision making kind of day, this is a maybe not even a stay focused on work day. Maybe this is to take a walk or phone a friend, or like, do something else. Sleep, have a cry, whatever it is like, I cannot make decisions, especially big ones on days that I have doubt in my head, because it would actually limit my success.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:44):
So, you know, this is really interesting, and I think we should.
for people listening, get into a little bit of your work because your work is really interesting.
you.
you work with salons, but in a very different way than I hear people working with salons. You work in all the areas that people don't do very well, especially like
attraction and retention around key personnel. Right? Like, I mean, that's where you spend time.
Stefanie (02:08):
Yeah, the people.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:09):
Yeah, the people I mean people, people problems persist everywhere.
but in salons, I mean, I think everybody well, not me
beautiful locks, but but people who go to salons, people who go into those kinds of environments see a lot of turnover right?
And I think
any of those sort of high customer service touch points. There's a lot of turnover. There's a lot of churn in stuff. So so
(02:37):
in your work you deal with a lot of leaders, owners of salons. You're dealing with a lot of entrepreneurs right?
Stefanie (02:42):
Absolutely.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:43):
And and
saying that you have doubt days.
I think it's I think it's really vulnerable. It's open for you to be saying that, especially in this like sort of social media culture, was it hard to come to terms with that? Like the the fact that you could
have these down days. It was that hard for you to learn.
Stefanie (03:01):
Yeah, I mean.
I think for years I let doubt
shift my course.
You know I would get in my head. I would feel you know I've been an entrepreneur. The bulk of my career, with a few stents of opportunities that have popped up in between where I've been an employee. But for the bulk of my career I've been an entrepreneur, and
(03:21):
in those moments when you're especially with you know my early twenties, when I'm trying to like, what am I going to do with my life? Right? You're on this discovery path
anytime things felt harder.
I would be like riddled with like doubt. And like, is this the right course like, am I actually supposed to be doing this? And
I moved around like paths more than I would have had I had the wisdom of.
(03:43):
just because it's hard, doesn't mean it's not right.
And so I would let those days of doubt kind of spiral, mentally, and really make me think like, oh, this isn't gonna work, or that deals never gonna close, that, you know. Maybe you need a different path, or you should move to a different city, or I mean so many decisions that I made in my early career that were made because I was insecure and uncertain.
(04:07):
and
that didn't ever last like it'd be like, there's a day I'm feeling really insecure and uncertain, and I'd go to bed, and I'd wake up the next day, and it was like clarity.
But it took me years to
put it together and go. Wait a minute, Stephanie, like you're gonna have those days. They're normal. They're part of the work. Just don't make a decision on them, because, you know, you're gonna wake up tomorrow and you're gonna feel mentally clear, stronger about what you're doing. The next opportunity that you should pursue is arising like
(04:37):
it was like I had to learn the pattern. I would see it, but I hadn't really learned it enough to change my behavior around it, and when I did it changed so much.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:48):
I think what you're saying is really interesting about recognizing
the doubt, recognizing the
uncertainty and the insecurity of a No, like getting a no in the market getting it. Sometimes I think when we're
I, even when we're in startup mode, like when I'm in startup mode. And we were sort of talking about this sort of green room thing beforehand when you're startup mode. Anybody giving you validation is like, Yeah, I love you. I want to spend.
Stefanie (05:15):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:16):
But they can be really distracting right? And because they they're feeding, they're feeding off our problem. Our problem is
that doubt day, right? Like that low energy day or feeding off those nose.
You use the word recognizing it. And and I think that's really revealing. So how how did you learn to recognize the doubt. Days notice the doubt days.
Stefanie (05:39):
Yeah, honestly, it was through some study. I'm a big data, junkie. I like to read and it was really researching like from a neuroscience perspective.
What happens in our minds when we need a new thought? Right? It is easy, you know. Take gratitude as an example. We've all read books about like. If you focus on gratitude, you'll be more grateful, and you'll be more joyful, and you'll then have more joyful things happening in your life. Right, and that is all true. We see that happen. And so it was like, well, what is actually going on
(06:08):
when we're spiraling in a mental place that isn't healthy for us.
whether that's from insecurity, doubt, frustration, fear, any of those negative emotions. And and so neuroscience would tell us that if you actually can
step, one, recognize the state you're in.
That's number one. Number 2 is you have to insert a new thought.
You know that new thought could be. I need to take a walk. I need to pause and so I started kind of building this function for myself. Where Number one I got better at recognizing like, Are you kind of spiral and stuff, you know, like, is this a real rational thought? Or are you feeling emotional? Or are you stressed like what's really happening here. Stop the stop the spiral. So number one, and then number 2 is having resources that I knew helped shift my mental space.
(06:54):
and for me
the shift of the mental space is truly like, move my body. Get up and take a walk.
Right? That's a huge one for me.
phone a friend
like calling a trusted person that I can actually just say, like, Hey.
I need you to talk me off the ledge because I am not feeling good like I don't know what I'm thinking, and I'm feeling a little crazy about this. I'm a big lover of inspirational quotes. So sometimes it's as simple as like reading a few quotes, you know. So I'd go into pinterest, and I have a tons of pinterest boards around inspiration that I just have to pull my phone out sometimes and like, Re, inspire myself.
(07:32):
And then, you know, nothing really shifts that crazy cycle. We get ourselves in full of doubt, like a good sleep, you know. Sometimes it's truly
this isn't a problem. For today.
I need to just deal with this tomorrow.
And I learned from experience that it's always all good, because the same problems there tomorrow. But I think differently about it, because I've had some rest.
(07:55):
I have sorted through my emotions around it, and now I can actually tackle it
from my place of power, not from a place of fear and insecurity and uncertainty.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:06):
So so
really great and and okay. So you you said 5 things.
You ask yourself this question, right? This question of
you know how you're feeling today about it.
Then then you Reg, after you recognize that feeling.
you move your body.
think about phoning a friend, find some inspiration, and really sleep well. I want to get into the question because I know I know this about you. We talked about it when we met.
(08:34):
I know you like to read, and you like to journal right? So so
do you ask this question of yourself. Is there a rigor around you asking, checking in with yourself in the morning. Is that part of what you do
just to see? Do you do a pulse check on that in the morning? Is that how you do it?
Stefanie (08:51):
Not necessarily. I do journal every morning like so getting my head in the right space kind of proactively is a part of my day. But it's not with Re, any real focused question. It's like, I open my journal. I have a like prayer journey, and you know, faith journey. So that's my like morning experience to get my brain right, which also for me.
(09:13):
when I wake up in the morning, I'm like ready to go. I am an action kind of person, and so that can also breed some anxiety around.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:21):
Like.
Stefanie (09:21):
Okay, we gotta go. We gotta go. There's all these things to do. And so I found that that journal experience in the morning lets me get all those thoughts out again, resets my brain into the place it needs to be in to actually have a productive day. Now, if things are feeling
like something comes up. It's either that day's problem or it's a bigger problem. And I'll tell you an example of a bigger one here in a second then it's like.
(09:44):
kind of a talk to yourself. Moment where you're like, okay, wait.
You know, you're being super negative.
Is this really gonna like, go down the way you're imagining it's gonna go down, or could you just pause for a minute? You know, you need to think that you're it's the recognition that, like I feel my pulse going up. I feel my brain spiraling. You know I look for those queues.
(10:04):
That don't serve
me well, and certainly not, you know, as an entrepreneur, and like the teams that I work with, that doesn't serve them well, either. Like if I'm in that state.
I'm not showing up as the leader that I need to be. I'm not showing up as the
inspiration, you know, inspiration or visionary, or any of those things. So I think it's a responsibility, too, especially for the type of work that I do, because I serve other people. So I've got to really be in line.
(10:29):
the example. I was thinking.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:30):
Deeply about.
you know. So one of the things that I notice about you is that you really
pour yourself into your community right like you really care about the issues
of the salon owners and their teams. And so recognizing early on in the day that you've got positive energy or negative energy. And then using some of these tools that we've talked about, that you use is a really important part of it for you, right? Because you can't serve.
Stefanie (11:00):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:01):
Not able to serve yourself.
Stefanie (11:03):
It is. And you know, I I focus on solving big problems that impact people's lives. I mean, you were talking about the salon business model, a thing that a lot of people miss that don't know salon. If you are an employment based salon. So you have W. 2 employees
when you lose a staff member, you lose revenue
because our consumer is attached to the hairdresser, and they follow the hairdresser. Any of us can think about how many hairdressers we followed, or friends, or wives or girlfriends. Husband that like, Oh, yeah, my hair just been like 3 salons, and I followed them.
(11:34):
So we're in this unique business situation, where you have an entrepreneur, it's already hard enough to grow and scale a business. But now
the revenue of my business is at the mercy of my team staying
and my team being happy like that is a lot of stress to carry. And so I work to solve that part of the problem, and that is
(11:56):
critical to that entrepreneur being in the game every day not feeling, you know. You lose a staff member, and I and I've been there like you feel like you got punched in the heart and the gut, but at the same time like horrible, because your bank accounts gonna get hit, you feel betrayed.
You're worried. More people are going to leave. You're questioning. What did I do? How did I fail? I mean, all the things happen in that scenario. And so
(12:19):
my work, my research around, what does the workforce want
really comes from 2 places. One, it's
I want to serve the hairdresser. Well, because
I've been the hairdresser whose family said.
You're gonna do what you're gonna be a hairdresser.
That's the worst possible career choice for you, right. They thought it was the stupidest like. My mom said, you're wasting your brain.
(12:42):
So I know if hairdressers have better career journeys.
they're going to make more money. They're going to be more satisfied. They're going to be more loyal in their space, and they're going to be happier and more people in the world are going to go.
Wow! That's an amazing career choice. They are artists like that is so cool.
And then, on the owner side, you know, I've been the salon owner.
(13:03):
and I know how hard it is to have a dream and feel like that dream is at the mercy of the people you lead, and you don't know what's going on in their life, or why they make their decisions. Or, you know, it's a lot to take on. And so that collection of research. And then I build programming to help the salons
lead. Better recruit, better? Really try to help them solve that problem because I want everybody to look at the beauty industry and be like man. That's amazing. You know. The same way we would think of like an engineer at Apple, and we think, Wow, that's such a cool job like
(13:32):
hairdressing is amazing. It's an art. It is impactful to people's lives. People tell their hairdressers things they don't tell their doctors like it is like such a powerful career. Choice? And yeah, I feel very passionate about it, like, I absolutely love it.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:49):
It's been a long time since I've sat in a house lawn chair. But for the people who don't remember, I'm I have no hair.
the the
I. I know there's an intimacy in that relationship, right? Their their hands are on
the client for a prolonged period of time, and that personal connection
(14:10):
is is
valuable. It's deep. And I love how you honor that I think it's really important.
So so
after you recognize this, you. You talked about moving your body. So this is maybe something that you do again. Part of your routine, maybe. Maybe. I I know fitness is important to you. So is that something that you
(14:31):
de-risk? Is that something you make part of every morning.
Stefanie (14:33):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:34):
How do you think? Figure that out.
Stefanie (14:35):
Absolutely. I mean.
especially, you know, we all face challenges. But anybody that's an entrepreneur understands the mental load that comes with like building and scaling something for me that's like the preventative medicine, like I have got to spend time on my health. And well being through the gym a run, something, because
(14:57):
the likelihood that I'm going to have a better, more productive, less doubtful day is so much higher. Oh, my gosh! So much higher.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:04):
Yeah, and there's a bunch. And I know neuroscience is a big part of your reading. But there's a whole bunch of brain science stuff that obviously your brain is healthier works better. You access parts of your brain that you can't if you haven't
exercised regularly. So moving your body is a big part of it.
Phone a friend. This is an interesting thing, because I heard you also
ask them specifically for the help you wanted. Talk me off the ledge. Talk me off.
(15:31):
Did that take courage the 1st time like? Tell me about your peer group that you you've got great friends, that you can go to them, and just blah blah like that right.
Stefanie (15:39):
Yeah.
yeah, I mean, and my hope would be, everybody has a few of those friends. It's a selective group, you know. I think there's probably 5 people in my life that I know love me unconditionally.
know my heart, know how my brain works, know that I can go to them and just say, Look.
if it's me thinking incorrectly, I need you to tell me so. Let me tell you where I'm at and like. What am I missing.
(16:04):
you know, like I asked for that feedback, because I think
there's just this truth that the people that love us they want the best for us, and if they see us kind of self sabotaging, or, you know, not serving ourselves to the best of our ability.
I want the space to be open, that they would say to me, Hey, stuff like you sure about that, you know, like I don't know if that's a good idea.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:26):
Yeah. But you know. But this is really an important thing that I think a lot of people take
for granted that they're just gonna have. Naturally all these friendships and your friends are, gonna be straight with you. That's not how it works. You've got to have ground rules around this right. You have to have
sort of like a values based conversation before
you start to entertain these friend conversations. Otherwise you're going to get a whole bunch of unwelcome stuff the other way, right like.
Stefanie (16:51):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:52):
You had these ground rules, conversations with your with your friends, didn't you?
Stefanie (16:56):
Yeah, for sure. And it's it's also knowing through time. And like the build of that relationship like, is it a safe space to have that kind of conversation. Not every friend is that kind of a friend. They they may not have the skill of giving you the feedback, you know, and as a friend, one of the things that I really try to do when somebody comes to me is I'll let them, you know, download whatever they need to download. And then I say, you know, do you want some feedback on that?
(17:20):
Because sometimes you don't like you just need to. So yeah, I mean you've probably been there like you talk through the problem, and then you get to the end of it. And you're like, Oh, my gosh! Like I totally know better like I get it, I see, like it's just you needed to say it out loud and get it out of your brain. And so sometimes. That's the case, too, in the phone. A friend. You just need a place to download out loud. And then you're like, Oh, my gosh!
(17:44):
Does.
Govindh Jayaraman (17:44):
So the veneer also is going to be stuff that people are going to look at you. Your keynote speaker. You've got a couple of successful businesses. You know thousands of people follow you on various social platforms. Steph's got lots of friends, you. It's easy for you to do this.
but I'm alone.
I can't do that. What would you say?
Stefanie (18:04):
Yeah.
I would say, the illusion of lots of friends is exactly that. You know it's an illusion, and and I generationally sit in the bucket of people that I grew up without social media and really without much Internet access until post high school. So I was like the 1st group that was like social media launched, you know, like the year after I graduated high school. So I really feel for people
(18:30):
that a never had that time to not have that constant social comparison, and the belief that everything you see online is real. But then even those of us that that did have that time, you know, in the last 20 years it's really easy to forget that. And so I think
I would tell people like, I don't have a lot of friends.
I have a lot of acquaintances. I have a huge network, and I am highly selective with the people that come into my circle, because
(18:56):
I personally know, like I value like connection and loyalty and honesty. And
I want those few people that I can go to that know the intimate workings of my heart and my brain and my life, and I don't want any more than that. So go find one or 2 of those people. You don't need a lot. You don't want a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:16):
And it doesn't take more than one or 2.
Stefanie (19:18):
It doesn't, really, it's too much feedback. If it's more than that right then it's very confusing, because then people are giving you all kinds of feedback. And it's like, now you're really confused and full of doubt.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
So inspiration. You use pinterest, which is a great tool for this. Right? You can, because you can have search terms, and everybody throws up a bunch of a billion me, and so there's a bunch of stuff up there that can take you down a rabbit hole, but you can also slate it around something positive. What's what's 1 of your favorite
search terms that you use to to bring yourself out of the doubt, and into the light.
Stefanie (19:53):
Yeah, I'm constantly typing in quotes on fill in the blank. Whatever word I think I'm meeting quotes on inspiration, quotes on overcoming challenges, quotes on positivity, quotes on gratitude like I. It all starts with quotes on, because I am very inspired by words. Now I love a good laugh I love. I love Instagram for a really funny reel like if I just need to laugh, that's where I go. But if I need words, because I am very logically driven. So the words really hit me differently.
(20:22):
Yeah, I just quotes on fill in the word that is kind of the opposite of the feeling that I'm having at that time. Right? I'm.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:28):
Yeah.
Stefanie (20:28):
Reset my thinking.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:30):
And is that part of the recognition? Right? Notice what you're feeling. So you can find the opposite.
Yeah, that could be your north star, right? Cause.
Stefanie (20:36):
Totally.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:37):
They're very related. Right? If you're if
if you're feeling one way, then the other way is is in line with where you are.
Now, what about sleep? So for some people.
they would say, sleeps hard when I'm in in doubt, right? I've got my mind going a million miles an hour.
(20:57):
Sleep's not coming.
What have you found that? How do you deal with that? What's what's your
what's your answer to that.
Stefanie (21:06):
Yeah, there's been very few challenges in my life where I can say I truly can't sleep because of them.
and I do recognize that is a very real thing when the stress level or the overwhelm is so big that you feel incapable of shutting off your mind. That is very real and I have experienced it, but not at the magnitude that I know some people do. I? I've developed the coping skills to kind of shut myself down before I really spiral to that level. But I would say, You know, if you struggle that way, what works for me is again to kind of. Follow the pattern I've described like, make yourself take a walk
(21:42):
1st before you go to bed, right like physically. Move your body. You don't have to go for a run. Just go on a walk, you know. Come back, sit in silence like, take a bath.
or get out a piece of paper, and just write whatever comes to your mind or draw whatever comes to your mind. It's like you need mental release.
and that enables rest because it's that mental spiral that stops your ability to rest. And and sometimes
(22:08):
that release is a good cry.
I mean, there's a quote, and I can't think of exactly how the words go. But it's something around, you know, like.
basically, it's like salt water tears and sleep, you know, kind of cure all things. And so we we go to the beach, and it's like, Oh, then, you know, we all feel like so refreshed there, or you know, after a good cry, you just feel that release, or you wake up, refresh from sleep. And so it's like you gotta find your thing, that.
(22:33):
And sometimes it's multiple. It's the path. Take the walk. Write in the journal, take the bath now try to go to sleep.
You know it's like a build up to get yourself there so that you can release all of that tension and anxiety that's going through your brain.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:47):
Yeah. And you know, you know, one of the things I noticed about the 3 things that you said, you know. Take go on a walk, bathe and take a bath.
Write a journal
these these things are are 10 times better when we don't bring a cell phone with us, right? Those things are.
Stefanie (23:02):
Oh, yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:03):
When technology is away from us and we get to unplug. And I because I think a lot of people.
And I see this a lot. I I go out for a beautiful walk my wife Stacey and I take these walks with the dogs, and I and I see people who bring their cell phones with them for these walks. I'm like, oh, man, you're just not getting it like this.
Stefanie (23:21):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:21):
You. This is a chance for you to unplug.
do you? Do you do that too? You deliberately leave the phone behind for those kinds of things.
Stefanie (23:28):
So sometimes I wish I was better at it. Sometimes I put on like what I'm in a mental state that I've taken a walk because of that. But I need to like release the doubt. Sometimes I put on a podcast again, I go to kind of logical things. Sometimes I put on music that is, without words. I find, you know, if I listen to music where there's actually lyrics that can
(23:51):
both positively and negatively impact my thinking, depending on the song. So sometimes it's just like having a background sound but I will say, I just spent like last week I was in Northern Minnesota with a group of girlfriends that are mentors of mine. They're all like 25 years older than me.
and we went on a fully off the grid, backpacking and canoeing trip.
(24:13):
and it's
off the grid. There is no cell phone service.
The guide that takes us has a solar phone in case of emergencies, and that's it. And this is the second year we've done it. And when you're out there.
you know, we're out there for 5 days we're in the wilderness for 7, but like in the actual, like hardcore, no access for 5 when you're there your senses work differently, so
(24:41):
food tastes better. The same food you eat at home tastes different when your brain, I can only imagine, is not being triggered by
like the constant check on social media and the constant scrolling and the ads, and like it's like something happens like your your food tastes better. You hear differently. Smells are different, like all of your senses kick in differently. You dream differently. I mean the incredibly radical wild dreams that every one of us had every night sleeping on the ground in a tent like we all wake up like, Oh, my gosh! Had this dream last night! That was just like insane.
(25:16):
and so
I think, making time to intentionally disconnect, like.
I've had 2 years in a row now where I've done this, and last year was the 1st time I was without a phone since I had had a phone the 1st time for any duration of time, you know. And I think I got my 1st phone at 15. You know, I'm 39. So at 38
was the 1st time in my life that I went a week.
(25:37):
even a day, without access to my cell phone.
Something changes like, Oh, my God!
Govindh Jayaraman (25:44):
It's called structural decompression. And the no technology does that because you, your entire
structure, your entire physical emotional structure changes. That's really powerful.
You know there's there's a there's a couple of riffs on your napkin. Right? Don't make decisions on a doubt. Days don't quit on a bad day.
(26:08):
I heard that
I can't remember the famous gymnast said it, but she said it, and I've I've said it to my kids many, many times since then.
and another one that that I'm reminded of.
because I think.
as entrepreneurs we have to be optimistic. We have to be. We have to hold the vision. And you talked about this. I can't be the leader I need to be if I can't hold the vision right. So I need to. And and I think optimism is is something that is not always sustainable for us. And one of the things that I heard it was the greatest
(26:41):
quote I heard recently, and I want you to think about it and tell me what you think is with gratitude. Optimism is sustainable.
and I can control. How grateful I am!
And that was from Michael J. Fox. He was talking about his, his long battle with Parkinson's, you know. The interview was saying, oh, my God! Your attitude is amazing! He goes.
I got. I got this. I got this
(27:02):
with gratitudes, optimism sustainable, and I got that. I I got a lot of I can. Yes.
yeah. So is that what you're saying?
Stefanie (27:10):
I love that. And also, I think I guarantee you, there's days that
he's got to work really hard to get to gratitude.
and that's the part that I think is critical for all of us to remember, especially in the world we live in today, where social media easily betrays us right or distracts us is that
you can make an intentional practice of being gratitude filled, being optimistic in order to sustain that kind of life. But it's like the 80 20,
(27:38):
you know, like
there's gonna be sometimes you're just not feeling it. And and that's when you have to learn how to take care of yourself, and that's what for me, like the don't make decisions on the doubt days. That is a conscious. I'm going to take care of me.
I'm not going to make a decision that
is going to impact things that I really want, or really believe, or really feel or really know is possible, because I'm in a bad place right now.
(28:01):
and I think the more it's a responsible choice, right to know
when you need to care for you
so that you can show up the way you want to show up, you know, and like in his case, he wants to be optimistic. He has a lifelong condition that's never going away, and he could sit in that and be miserable.
or you could say, This is what I have, and I want to live my life with joy, and be, you know, grateful and happy. And
(28:25):
that's a responsible choice. But it doesn't mean he feels that way every day. And that's okay. And I think we all need to recognize that cause. Then we set ourselves these standards where we think oh, my gosh! Everybody has it so much better than me, or their life is great. Mine sucks, and it's like, no, we all have days that it's not great.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:42):
And I think that's really powerful like, I mean, you're saying that, you know. Stay away from
stay away from challenges, bigger challenges.
When you recognize that you've got this down day. So I want to end the word and and paper napkin with a with a with a gratitude thing. This is a new thing that we're doing, and and at the end of every episode we're asking our guests to shout out somebody and and say a word of gratitude to somebody that's important to them, or has been an inspiration to them.
(29:09):
Who would you like to shout out today.
Stefanie (29:11):
Yeah, I would shout out. Her name is Virginia Meyer, and she's 1 of the women that was actually on this boundary waters trip with me. I met Virginia in 2,008.
I did some work for her for many years. But really interesting, you know. I would shout her out because
she has taught me so many life lessons that help me show up and be responsible for the life I want to build for myself. But 2 years before I ever met her
(29:37):
I knew who she was because she worked in a company I worked in, but she was in, you know in the C-suite, and I was not.
Somebody said to me.
You're going to be the next Virginia Meyer.
and I was like what you know, and I was very flattering, because, like she was, this like unattainable
powerhouse woman, you know.
who just 2 years later.
was a person I had the opportunity to work directly with, and not too long after that became my closest mentor and one of my closest friends. And now I've had, you know, almost 20 years of this incredible gift of her friendship and her wisdom, and so I would just shout her out as somebody that is
(30:12):
like, Oh, my gosh! To have her in your life is like the biggest blessing.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:17):
That's wonderful. I am grateful that our friend Jason brought us together, and that we were able to share that time and share this time, Stephanie, thank you for coming to paper. Nationalism.
Stefanie (30:27):
Thank you for inviting me.
Stephanie Fox. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm so excited to have you here with me today.
Stefanie (00:07):
Thank you. I'm excited. I was so excited when you reached out because we met many years ago, so it was nice to hear from you, and I love the work you're doing. So. I was honored to be asked to join.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:17):
Yeah, let's give a shout out to Jason while we're here. Right.
Stefanie (00:19):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:20):
Brought us together. We shared a a stage to do a round table when we're talking about culture in the organization. And you've you've taken this work and gone a lot further with it, and I'm sure that's going to come out in your napkin. But you shared a really like I can't wait to get into it. So you shared an interesting napkin with me.
Don't make decisions on the doubt days. Why did you share that with me?
Stefanie (00:43):
Yeah, because in my work
I spend a lot of time on stages. I work with a lot of people on inspiration and leadership.
And I realized that
it means people often perceive
that I don't have doubt days
right, that I just am full of inspiration, and like I'm always positive. And I always know what to do and like they kind of paint this picture of what they deem success around me, and the reality is.
(01:09):
I have a ton of doubt days.
But what I have learned is that if I make decisions on those doubt days
I hinder my success because I'm not thinking clearly, I'm being driven by emotions.
And when I actually just recognize that like, this is not a decision making kind of day, this is a maybe not even a stay focused on work day. Maybe this is to take a walk or phone a friend, or like, do something else. Sleep, have a cry, whatever it is like, I cannot make decisions, especially big ones on days that I have doubt in my head, because it would actually limit my success.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:44):
So, you know, this is really interesting, and I think we should.
for people listening, get into a little bit of your work because your work is really interesting.
you.
you work with salons, but in a very different way than I hear people working with salons. You work in all the areas that people don't do very well, especially like
attraction and retention around key personnel. Right? Like, I mean, that's where you spend time.
Stefanie (02:08):
Yeah, the people.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:09):
Yeah, the people I mean people, people problems persist everywhere.
but in salons, I mean, I think everybody well, not me
beautiful locks, but but people who go to salons, people who go into those kinds of environments see a lot of turnover right?
And I think
any of those sort of high customer service touch points. There's a lot of turnover. There's a lot of churn in stuff. So so
(02:37):
in your work you deal with a lot of leaders, owners of salons. You're dealing with a lot of entrepreneurs right?
Stefanie (02:42):
Absolutely.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:43):
And and
saying that you have doubt days.
I think it's I think it's really vulnerable. It's open for you to be saying that, especially in this like sort of social media culture, was it hard to come to terms with that? Like the the fact that you could
have these down days. It was that hard for you to learn.
Stefanie (03:01):
Yeah, I mean.
I think for years I let doubt
shift my course.
You know I would get in my head. I would feel you know I've been an entrepreneur. The bulk of my career, with a few stents of opportunities that have popped up in between where I've been an employee. But for the bulk of my career I've been an entrepreneur, and
(03:21):
in those moments when you're especially with you know my early twenties, when I'm trying to like, what am I going to do with my life? Right? You're on this discovery path
anytime things felt harder.
I would be like riddled with like doubt. And like, is this the right course like, am I actually supposed to be doing this? And
I moved around like paths more than I would have had I had the wisdom of.
(03:43):
just because it's hard, doesn't mean it's not right.
And so I would let those days of doubt kind of spiral, mentally, and really make me think like, oh, this isn't gonna work, or that deals never gonna close, that, you know. Maybe you need a different path, or you should move to a different city, or I mean so many decisions that I made in my early career that were made because I was insecure and uncertain.
(04:07):
and
that didn't ever last like it'd be like, there's a day I'm feeling really insecure and uncertain, and I'd go to bed, and I'd wake up the next day, and it was like clarity.
But it took me years to
put it together and go. Wait a minute, Stephanie, like you're gonna have those days. They're normal. They're part of the work. Just don't make a decision on them, because, you know, you're gonna wake up tomorrow and you're gonna feel mentally clear, stronger about what you're doing. The next opportunity that you should pursue is arising like
(04:37):
it was like I had to learn the pattern. I would see it, but I hadn't really learned it enough to change my behavior around it, and when I did it changed so much.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:48):
I think what you're saying is really interesting about recognizing
the doubt, recognizing the
uncertainty and the insecurity of a No, like getting a no in the market getting it. Sometimes I think when we're
I, even when we're in startup mode, like when I'm in startup mode. And we were sort of talking about this sort of green room thing beforehand when you're startup mode. Anybody giving you validation is like, Yeah, I love you. I want to spend.
Stefanie (05:15):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:16):
But they can be really distracting right? And because they they're feeding, they're feeding off our problem. Our problem is
that doubt day, right? Like that low energy day or feeding off those nose.
You use the word recognizing it. And and I think that's really revealing. So how how did you learn to recognize the doubt. Days notice the doubt days.
Stefanie (05:39):
Yeah, honestly, it was through some study. I'm a big data, junkie. I like to read and it was really researching like from a neuroscience perspective.
What happens in our minds when we need a new thought? Right? It is easy, you know. Take gratitude as an example. We've all read books about like. If you focus on gratitude, you'll be more grateful, and you'll be more joyful, and you'll then have more joyful things happening in your life. Right, and that is all true. We see that happen. And so it was like, well, what is actually going on
(06:08):
when we're spiraling in a mental place that isn't healthy for us.
whether that's from insecurity, doubt, frustration, fear, any of those negative emotions. And and so neuroscience would tell us that if you actually can
step, one, recognize the state you're in.
That's number one. Number 2 is you have to insert a new thought.
You know that new thought could be. I need to take a walk. I need to pause and so I started kind of building this function for myself. Where Number one I got better at recognizing like, Are you kind of spiral and stuff, you know, like, is this a real rational thought? Or are you feeling emotional? Or are you stressed like what's really happening here. Stop the stop the spiral. So number one, and then number 2 is having resources that I knew helped shift my mental space.
(06:54):
and for me
the shift of the mental space is truly like, move my body. Get up and take a walk.
Right? That's a huge one for me.
phone a friend
like calling a trusted person that I can actually just say, like, Hey.
I need you to talk me off the ledge because I am not feeling good like I don't know what I'm thinking, and I'm feeling a little crazy about this. I'm a big lover of inspirational quotes. So sometimes it's as simple as like reading a few quotes, you know. So I'd go into pinterest, and I have a tons of pinterest boards around inspiration that I just have to pull my phone out sometimes and like, Re, inspire myself.
(07:32):
And then, you know, nothing really shifts that crazy cycle. We get ourselves in full of doubt, like a good sleep, you know. Sometimes it's truly
this isn't a problem. For today.
I need to just deal with this tomorrow.
And I learned from experience that it's always all good, because the same problems there tomorrow. But I think differently about it, because I've had some rest.
(07:55):
I have sorted through my emotions around it, and now I can actually tackle it
from my place of power, not from a place of fear and insecurity and uncertainty.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:06):
So so
really great and and okay. So you you said 5 things.
You ask yourself this question, right? This question of
you know how you're feeling today about it.
Then then you Reg, after you recognize that feeling.
you move your body.
think about phoning a friend, find some inspiration, and really sleep well. I want to get into the question because I know I know this about you. We talked about it when we met.
(08:34):
I know you like to read, and you like to journal right? So so
do you ask this question of yourself. Is there a rigor around you asking, checking in with yourself in the morning. Is that part of what you do
just to see? Do you do a pulse check on that in the morning? Is that how you do it?
Stefanie (08:51):
Not necessarily. I do journal every morning like so getting my head in the right space kind of proactively is a part of my day. But it's not with Re, any real focused question. It's like, I open my journal. I have a like prayer journey, and you know, faith journey. So that's my like morning experience to get my brain right, which also for me.
(09:13):
when I wake up in the morning, I'm like ready to go. I am an action kind of person, and so that can also breed some anxiety around.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:21):
Like.
Stefanie (09:21):
Okay, we gotta go. We gotta go. There's all these things to do. And so I found that that journal experience in the morning lets me get all those thoughts out again, resets my brain into the place it needs to be in to actually have a productive day. Now, if things are feeling
like something comes up. It's either that day's problem or it's a bigger problem. And I'll tell you an example of a bigger one here in a second then it's like.
(09:44):
kind of a talk to yourself. Moment where you're like, okay, wait.
You know, you're being super negative.
Is this really gonna like, go down the way you're imagining it's gonna go down, or could you just pause for a minute? You know, you need to think that you're it's the recognition that, like I feel my pulse going up. I feel my brain spiraling. You know I look for those queues.
(10:04):
That don't serve
me well, and certainly not, you know, as an entrepreneur, and like the teams that I work with, that doesn't serve them well, either. Like if I'm in that state.
I'm not showing up as the leader that I need to be. I'm not showing up as the
inspiration, you know, inspiration or visionary, or any of those things. So I think it's a responsibility, too, especially for the type of work that I do, because I serve other people. So I've got to really be in line.
(10:29):
the example. I was thinking.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:30):
Deeply about.
you know. So one of the things that I notice about you is that you really
pour yourself into your community right like you really care about the issues
of the salon owners and their teams. And so recognizing early on in the day that you've got positive energy or negative energy. And then using some of these tools that we've talked about, that you use is a really important part of it for you, right? Because you can't serve.
Stefanie (11:00):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:01):
Not able to serve yourself.
Stefanie (11:03):
It is. And you know, I I focus on solving big problems that impact people's lives. I mean, you were talking about the salon business model, a thing that a lot of people miss that don't know salon. If you are an employment based salon. So you have W. 2 employees
when you lose a staff member, you lose revenue
because our consumer is attached to the hairdresser, and they follow the hairdresser. Any of us can think about how many hairdressers we followed, or friends, or wives or girlfriends. Husband that like, Oh, yeah, my hair just been like 3 salons, and I followed them.
(11:34):
So we're in this unique business situation, where you have an entrepreneur, it's already hard enough to grow and scale a business. But now
the revenue of my business is at the mercy of my team staying
and my team being happy like that is a lot of stress to carry. And so I work to solve that part of the problem, and that is
(11:56):
critical to that entrepreneur being in the game every day not feeling, you know. You lose a staff member, and I and I've been there like you feel like you got punched in the heart and the gut, but at the same time like horrible, because your bank accounts gonna get hit, you feel betrayed.
You're worried. More people are going to leave. You're questioning. What did I do? How did I fail? I mean, all the things happen in that scenario. And so
(12:19):
my work, my research around, what does the workforce want
really comes from 2 places. One, it's
I want to serve the hairdresser. Well, because
I've been the hairdresser whose family said.
You're gonna do what you're gonna be a hairdresser.
That's the worst possible career choice for you, right. They thought it was the stupidest like. My mom said, you're wasting your brain.
(12:42):
So I know if hairdressers have better career journeys.
they're going to make more money. They're going to be more satisfied. They're going to be more loyal in their space, and they're going to be happier and more people in the world are going to go.
Wow! That's an amazing career choice. They are artists like that is so cool.
And then, on the owner side, you know, I've been the salon owner.
(13:03):
and I know how hard it is to have a dream and feel like that dream is at the mercy of the people you lead, and you don't know what's going on in their life, or why they make their decisions. Or, you know, it's a lot to take on. And so that collection of research. And then I build programming to help the salons
lead. Better recruit, better? Really try to help them solve that problem because I want everybody to look at the beauty industry and be like man. That's amazing. You know. The same way we would think of like an engineer at Apple, and we think, Wow, that's such a cool job like
(13:32):
hairdressing is amazing. It's an art. It is impactful to people's lives. People tell their hairdressers things they don't tell their doctors like it is like such a powerful career. Choice? And yeah, I feel very passionate about it, like, I absolutely love it.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:49):
It's been a long time since I've sat in a house lawn chair. But for the people who don't remember, I'm I have no hair.
the the
I. I know there's an intimacy in that relationship, right? Their their hands are on
the client for a prolonged period of time, and that personal connection
(14:10):
is is
valuable. It's deep. And I love how you honor that I think it's really important.
So so
after you recognize this, you. You talked about moving your body. So this is maybe something that you do again. Part of your routine, maybe. Maybe. I I know fitness is important to you. So is that something that you
(14:31):
de-risk? Is that something you make part of every morning.
Stefanie (14:33):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:34):
How do you think? Figure that out.
Stefanie (14:35):
Absolutely. I mean.
especially, you know, we all face challenges. But anybody that's an entrepreneur understands the mental load that comes with like building and scaling something for me that's like the preventative medicine, like I have got to spend time on my health. And well being through the gym a run, something, because
(14:57):
the likelihood that I'm going to have a better, more productive, less doubtful day is so much higher. Oh, my gosh! So much higher.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:04):
Yeah, and there's a bunch. And I know neuroscience is a big part of your reading. But there's a whole bunch of brain science stuff that obviously your brain is healthier works better. You access parts of your brain that you can't if you haven't
exercised regularly. So moving your body is a big part of it.
Phone a friend. This is an interesting thing, because I heard you also
ask them specifically for the help you wanted. Talk me off the ledge. Talk me off.
(15:31):
Did that take courage the 1st time like? Tell me about your peer group that you you've got great friends, that you can go to them, and just blah blah like that right.
Stefanie (15:39):
Yeah.
yeah, I mean, and my hope would be, everybody has a few of those friends. It's a selective group, you know. I think there's probably 5 people in my life that I know love me unconditionally.
know my heart, know how my brain works, know that I can go to them and just say, Look.
if it's me thinking incorrectly, I need you to tell me so. Let me tell you where I'm at and like. What am I missing.
(16:04):
you know, like I asked for that feedback, because I think
there's just this truth that the people that love us they want the best for us, and if they see us kind of self sabotaging, or, you know, not serving ourselves to the best of our ability.
I want the space to be open, that they would say to me, Hey, stuff like you sure about that, you know, like I don't know if that's a good idea.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:26):
Yeah. But you know. But this is really an important thing that I think a lot of people take
for granted that they're just gonna have. Naturally all these friendships and your friends are, gonna be straight with you. That's not how it works. You've got to have ground rules around this right. You have to have
sort of like a values based conversation before
you start to entertain these friend conversations. Otherwise you're going to get a whole bunch of unwelcome stuff the other way, right like.
Stefanie (16:51):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:52):
You had these ground rules, conversations with your with your friends, didn't you?
Stefanie (16:56):
Yeah, for sure. And it's it's also knowing through time. And like the build of that relationship like, is it a safe space to have that kind of conversation. Not every friend is that kind of a friend. They they may not have the skill of giving you the feedback, you know, and as a friend, one of the things that I really try to do when somebody comes to me is I'll let them, you know, download whatever they need to download. And then I say, you know, do you want some feedback on that?
(17:20):
Because sometimes you don't like you just need to. So yeah, I mean you've probably been there like you talk through the problem, and then you get to the end of it. And you're like, Oh, my gosh! Like I totally know better like I get it, I see, like it's just you needed to say it out loud and get it out of your brain. And so sometimes. That's the case, too, in the phone. A friend. You just need a place to download out loud. And then you're like, Oh, my gosh!
(17:44):
Does.
Govindh Jayaraman (17:44):
So the veneer also is going to be stuff that people are going to look at you. Your keynote speaker. You've got a couple of successful businesses. You know thousands of people follow you on various social platforms. Steph's got lots of friends, you. It's easy for you to do this.
but I'm alone.
I can't do that. What would you say?
Stefanie (18:04):
Yeah.
I would say, the illusion of lots of friends is exactly that. You know it's an illusion, and and I generationally sit in the bucket of people that I grew up without social media and really without much Internet access until post high school. So I was like the 1st group that was like social media launched, you know, like the year after I graduated high school. So I really feel for people
(18:30):
that a never had that time to not have that constant social comparison, and the belief that everything you see online is real. But then even those of us that that did have that time, you know, in the last 20 years it's really easy to forget that. And so I think
I would tell people like, I don't have a lot of friends.
I have a lot of acquaintances. I have a huge network, and I am highly selective with the people that come into my circle, because
(18:56):
I personally know, like I value like connection and loyalty and honesty. And
I want those few people that I can go to that know the intimate workings of my heart and my brain and my life, and I don't want any more than that. So go find one or 2 of those people. You don't need a lot. You don't want a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:16):
And it doesn't take more than one or 2.
Stefanie (19:18):
It doesn't, really, it's too much feedback. If it's more than that right then it's very confusing, because then people are giving you all kinds of feedback. And it's like, now you're really confused and full of doubt.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
So inspiration. You use pinterest, which is a great tool for this. Right? You can, because you can have search terms, and everybody throws up a bunch of a billion me, and so there's a bunch of stuff up there that can take you down a rabbit hole, but you can also slate it around something positive. What's what's 1 of your favorite
search terms that you use to to bring yourself out of the doubt, and into the light.
Stefanie (19:53):
Yeah, I'm constantly typing in quotes on fill in the blank. Whatever word I think I'm meeting quotes on inspiration, quotes on overcoming challenges, quotes on positivity, quotes on gratitude like I. It all starts with quotes on, because I am very inspired by words. Now I love a good laugh I love. I love Instagram for a really funny reel like if I just need to laugh, that's where I go. But if I need words, because I am very logically driven. So the words really hit me differently.
(20:22):
Yeah, I just quotes on fill in the word that is kind of the opposite of the feeling that I'm having at that time. Right? I'm.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:28):
Yeah.
Stefanie (20:28):
Reset my thinking.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:30):
And is that part of the recognition? Right? Notice what you're feeling. So you can find the opposite.
Yeah, that could be your north star, right? Cause.
Stefanie (20:36):
Totally.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:37):
They're very related. Right? If you're if
if you're feeling one way, then the other way is is in line with where you are.
Now, what about sleep? So for some people.
they would say, sleeps hard when I'm in in doubt, right? I've got my mind going a million miles an hour.
(20:57):
Sleep's not coming.
What have you found that? How do you deal with that? What's what's your
what's your answer to that.
Stefanie (21:06):
Yeah, there's been very few challenges in my life where I can say I truly can't sleep because of them.
and I do recognize that is a very real thing when the stress level or the overwhelm is so big that you feel incapable of shutting off your mind. That is very real and I have experienced it, but not at the magnitude that I know some people do. I? I've developed the coping skills to kind of shut myself down before I really spiral to that level. But I would say, You know, if you struggle that way, what works for me is again to kind of. Follow the pattern I've described like, make yourself take a walk
(21:42):
1st before you go to bed, right like physically. Move your body. You don't have to go for a run. Just go on a walk, you know. Come back, sit in silence like, take a bath.
or get out a piece of paper, and just write whatever comes to your mind or draw whatever comes to your mind. It's like you need mental release.
and that enables rest because it's that mental spiral that stops your ability to rest. And and sometimes
(22:08):
that release is a good cry.
I mean, there's a quote, and I can't think of exactly how the words go. But it's something around, you know, like.
basically, it's like salt water tears and sleep, you know, kind of cure all things. And so we we go to the beach, and it's like, Oh, then, you know, we all feel like so refreshed there, or you know, after a good cry, you just feel that release, or you wake up, refresh from sleep. And so it's like you gotta find your thing, that.
(22:33):
And sometimes it's multiple. It's the path. Take the walk. Write in the journal, take the bath now try to go to sleep.
You know it's like a build up to get yourself there so that you can release all of that tension and anxiety that's going through your brain.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:47):
Yeah. And you know, you know, one of the things I noticed about the 3 things that you said, you know. Take go on a walk, bathe and take a bath.
Write a journal
these these things are are 10 times better when we don't bring a cell phone with us, right? Those things are.
Stefanie (23:02):
Oh, yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:03):
When technology is away from us and we get to unplug. And I because I think a lot of people.
And I see this a lot. I I go out for a beautiful walk my wife Stacey and I take these walks with the dogs, and I and I see people who bring their cell phones with them for these walks. I'm like, oh, man, you're just not getting it like this.
Stefanie (23:21):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:21):
You. This is a chance for you to unplug.
do you? Do you do that too? You deliberately leave the phone behind for those kinds of things.
Stefanie (23:28):
So sometimes I wish I was better at it. Sometimes I put on like what I'm in a mental state that I've taken a walk because of that. But I need to like release the doubt. Sometimes I put on a podcast again, I go to kind of logical things. Sometimes I put on music that is, without words. I find, you know, if I listen to music where there's actually lyrics that can
(23:51):
both positively and negatively impact my thinking, depending on the song. So sometimes it's just like having a background sound but I will say, I just spent like last week I was in Northern Minnesota with a group of girlfriends that are mentors of mine. They're all like 25 years older than me.
and we went on a fully off the grid, backpacking and canoeing trip.
(24:13):
and it's
off the grid. There is no cell phone service.
The guide that takes us has a solar phone in case of emergencies, and that's it. And this is the second year we've done it. And when you're out there.
you know, we're out there for 5 days we're in the wilderness for 7, but like in the actual, like hardcore, no access for 5 when you're there your senses work differently, so
(24:41):
food tastes better. The same food you eat at home tastes different when your brain, I can only imagine, is not being triggered by
like the constant check on social media and the constant scrolling and the ads, and like it's like something happens like your your food tastes better. You hear differently. Smells are different, like all of your senses kick in differently. You dream differently. I mean the incredibly radical wild dreams that every one of us had every night sleeping on the ground in a tent like we all wake up like, Oh, my gosh! Had this dream last night! That was just like insane.
(25:16):
and so
I think, making time to intentionally disconnect, like.
I've had 2 years in a row now where I've done this, and last year was the 1st time I was without a phone since I had had a phone the 1st time for any duration of time, you know. And I think I got my 1st phone at 15. You know, I'm 39. So at 38
was the 1st time in my life that I went a week.
(25:37):
even a day, without access to my cell phone.
Something changes like, Oh, my God!
Govindh Jayaraman (25:44):
It's called structural decompression. And the no technology does that because you, your entire
structure, your entire physical emotional structure changes. That's really powerful.
You know there's there's a there's a couple of riffs on your napkin. Right? Don't make decisions on a doubt. Days don't quit on a bad day.
(26:08):
I heard that
I can't remember the famous gymnast said it, but she said it, and I've I've said it to my kids many, many times since then.
and another one that that I'm reminded of.
because I think.
as entrepreneurs we have to be optimistic. We have to be. We have to hold the vision. And you talked about this. I can't be the leader I need to be if I can't hold the vision right. So I need to. And and I think optimism is is something that is not always sustainable for us. And one of the things that I heard it was the greatest
(26:41):
quote I heard recently, and I want you to think about it and tell me what you think is with gratitude. Optimism is sustainable.
and I can control. How grateful I am!
And that was from Michael J. Fox. He was talking about his, his long battle with Parkinson's, you know. The interview was saying, oh, my God! Your attitude is amazing! He goes.
I got. I got this. I got this
(27:02):
with gratitudes, optimism sustainable, and I got that. I I got a lot of I can. Yes.
yeah. So is that what you're saying?
Stefanie (27:10):
I love that. And also, I think I guarantee you, there's days that
he's got to work really hard to get to gratitude.
and that's the part that I think is critical for all of us to remember, especially in the world we live in today, where social media easily betrays us right or distracts us is that
you can make an intentional practice of being gratitude filled, being optimistic in order to sustain that kind of life. But it's like the 80 20,
(27:38):
you know, like
there's gonna be sometimes you're just not feeling it. And and that's when you have to learn how to take care of yourself, and that's what for me, like the don't make decisions on the doubt days. That is a conscious. I'm going to take care of me.
I'm not going to make a decision that
is going to impact things that I really want, or really believe, or really feel or really know is possible, because I'm in a bad place right now.
(28:01):
and I think the more it's a responsible choice, right to know
when you need to care for you
so that you can show up the way you want to show up, you know, and like in his case, he wants to be optimistic. He has a lifelong condition that's never going away, and he could sit in that and be miserable.
or you could say, This is what I have, and I want to live my life with joy, and be, you know, grateful and happy. And
(28:25):
that's a responsible choice. But it doesn't mean he feels that way every day. And that's okay. And I think we all need to recognize that cause. Then we set ourselves these standards where we think oh, my gosh! Everybody has it so much better than me, or their life is great. Mine sucks, and it's like, no, we all have days that it's not great.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:42):
And I think that's really powerful like, I mean, you're saying that, you know. Stay away from
stay away from challenges, bigger challenges.
When you recognize that you've got this down day. So I want to end the word and and paper napkin with a with a with a gratitude thing. This is a new thing that we're doing, and and at the end of every episode we're asking our guests to shout out somebody and and say a word of gratitude to somebody that's important to them, or has been an inspiration to them.
(29:09):
Who would you like to shout out today.
Stefanie (29:11):
Yeah, I would shout out. Her name is Virginia Meyer, and she's 1 of the women that was actually on this boundary waters trip with me. I met Virginia in 2,008.
I did some work for her for many years. But really interesting, you know. I would shout her out because
she has taught me so many life lessons that help me show up and be responsible for the life I want to build for myself. But 2 years before I ever met her
(29:37):
I knew who she was because she worked in a company I worked in, but she was in, you know in the C-suite, and I was not.
Somebody said to me.
You're going to be the next Virginia Meyer.
and I was like what you know, and I was very flattering, because, like she was, this like unattainable
powerhouse woman, you know.
who just 2 years later.
was a person I had the opportunity to work directly with, and not too long after that became my closest mentor and one of my closest friends. And now I've had, you know, almost 20 years of this incredible gift of her friendship and her wisdom, and so I would just shout her out as somebody that is
(30:12):
like, Oh, my gosh! To have her in your life is like the biggest blessing.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:17):
That's wonderful. I am grateful that our friend Jason brought us together, and that we were able to share that time and share this time, Stephanie, thank you for coming to paper. Nationalism.
Stefanie (30:27):
Thank you for inviting me.
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