In episode #230 of Paper Napkin Wisdom, we sit down with Ted Nolan—former NHL head coach, Jack Adams Award winner, and proud member of the Ojibwe Nation. Known not just for his coaching success but for the powerful presence he brings to every room, Ted shares the napkin that has guided him through every chapter of his life:
📝 "Learn to Win with What You Got."
Those seven words might be the most honest—and empowering—game plan you’ll ever hear.
Born and raised on the Garden River First Nation in Northern Ontario, Ted didn’t have access to elite hockey training, fancy equipment, or professional connections. What he had was heart, hustle, and unshakable cultural pride. And that, it turns out, was more than enough.
“I didn't come up through the coaching system the way most people did. I didn’t go to clinics or seminars,” Ted shared. “I got thrown into coaching, and I figured it out with what I had.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:02):
Ted Nolan. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Ted (00:08):
Well, thank you very much for having me on, and when I heard about the paper napkin, it kind of fit right up my Alley. So thanks very much for having me in.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:16):
Yeah, you, you said, coming into this, that you pretty much took
millions of notes on paper napkins all the way through your life and career.
Ted (00:24):
Yeah. You know, it's funny we talk about paper napkins, because when I started coaching I didn't do the traditional route of coaching, I didn't go to the hockey clinics. I didn't start off at Pv. And Banham, and I just got thrown right into the fire. Phyllis Mozito asked me one day if I'd be interested in being a part-time assistant coach with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the Ontario Hockey League and within. We'll talk about this later, but within a month they fired the head coach and said.
(00:53):
Hey, Ted, can you take over? So it kind of boomed from there. But I had no idea what I was doing, and I ran into a player that I much respected, and his name was Marcel Peronovo.
and I just kind of ran into him one day, and you know everybody talks about systems and methods of playing. And so I just asked him, so what what was the system back in the day. Did you guys have systems like we do nowadays? And now the I guess the new coaches are asking us if we had systems. But anyway? I asked him, and he grabbed a paper napkin.
(01:30):
and he drew a little rink
and one end of the rink. He drew a little house in front of the front of the net and the opposite goal. He drew another little house, and he said, then he connected the 2 with the with the 2 lines, and he said in their end, we try to get the Puck in the house, and at our end we keep the Puck out of the house and at Center race. We just keep the Puck to the outside, and I'm going jeez so simple yet effective. So I kind of copied that for my whole career.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:01):
That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, you didn't draw any rinks on the paper napkin that you shared with me today. But I'm really curious about it, and there's there's so you wrote, learn to win with what you got, and there's a heart on it.
Why did you share that with me?
Ted (02:18):
You know, because I my whole life, you know, growing up where I grew up. We we didn't grow up with the best of means. My 1st 1st skates were size, size, 6 or 7. My feet were only size 3 or 4. The helmets didn't really fit properly. This kind of rattle all over your head. We had those old mouth guards. I didn't play triple a hockey in double a at the beginning. I didn't. I played host League hockey, and
(02:45):
and when I went to rank my stick was always too short because we couldn't. We couldn't afford a new hockey stick, so it just kind of went and and
learn to learn to work with what I had. And my my father said, just because we're poor, you don't have to act poor.
You work with what you have. So I was very thankful for the things I had my whole life, and I just learned how to how to work with them, and it came into 2 life lessons, because when I started coaching seriously when I started coaching the Sault Ste grounds.
(03:22):
you know when I 1st started, you know, a typical of anybody would say, Geez, I wish I had a really good goaltender. I wish I had big defense. I wish I had a better better, but I was the wrong one. I had everything that I needed, and I just had to work with what I had, and we worked with what we had. And then all of a sudden, we went to 3 National National Championships. And so I just really.
(03:46):
I'm thankful every day that I get to work I get to come home, open up my fridge, and there's food inside. So so you just got to learn to work with what you have, and be thankful.
Govindh Jayaraman (03:58):
That's amazing. And I know. So
I reached out because I read your book. And and you know.
sometimes people say this, you know the the endorsements of the books are the front of the book, right? People writing good things about it and say it will make you laugh. It'll make you cry. And it isn't an emotional book to read.
(04:21):
because
this lesson, learning to win with what you got was really everywhere through it. And then, quite. It was something that your father said, but it was also something that came to you in the hockey world. Right? You got a great message
from French euro that was similar to this, too. It was like a constant reminder.
(04:42):
even though it was so important to you early in your life, learning to win with what you got. And you talked about your hockey origin story.
Did you have to remind yourself of it often through those challenges, or or was it something that you just always had?
Ted (04:56):
I. You know I was very blessed in the way that I got raised, and I keep telling this to a lot of people. I wouldn't change a thing in the world, even though it was tough at times and woke up. There was no, not too much food, and the wood stove went out, and you were cold, and you had the same same clothes, and you didn't quite fit in at school and and everything but at home. Geez! We had more more care, more love, than anybody could
(05:25):
get asked for, so I never really sat down and said, I wish I would have had something else, because I was very thankful for what I had, and and I try to pass that on to my kids, because my parents certainly passed it on to me, and it's just one of those legacies that I really want to continue. It's not the material things in life, I mean, although it's it's nice to have a car
(05:49):
to be able to drive to the grocery store, and it's nice to be able to turn the lights on and pay for your electricity bill. But this is some. Some
simplicity of life is the most important thing. Sometimes we we try to think so much where we're going. We forget what we're doing while we're getting there. So I just really I I wouldn't have changed my my upbringing for for all the money and all the money in the world, because I I was very thankful I was very appreciative. And and sometimes you.
(06:24):
if I could change it all and say, wipe off what I had, go back to where I was. I would probably do that.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:31):
It's amazing.
So this idea of learning to win with what you got. And and I mean, I can just sort of see the gratitude
also for life's lessons, I mean, for where you came from you you appreciate it all.
You appreciate the people you appreciate everything.
Did you have
a process to to remind yourself of that in the midst of challenges. Because I know I know it.
(06:55):
Your story was was hard, right. There was a lot of discrimination early on against indigenous communities, and you faced that. You had to fight through that
I'm sure it was difficult at times to remember
to be grateful, or remember to learn to win with what you got.
Did you find that challenging, or did you just lean on family? How did you do that?
Ted (07:17):
Yeah, you know, I think I was so inbreaded on how I was raised. I grew up on. We have a powwow trail in our communities. We have a lot of powwows, and my mom introduced me to the traditional side of my life, and she took me to powwows right across North America into the United States. Up to Alberta we went to
(07:42):
ceremonies all over the place, and and I was really enriched by what we do and how we did it. That was the life that I was so proud of what we we've done. Then I got involved with a little bit, with understanding the the aim movement at the time, the American Indian movement, and how they're fighting for our rights.
(08:06):
And then I started hearing stories about the residential schools and and what had, what transpired there, and the horrific stories that were told to us, and and the fear of letting our I could see the fear why they didn't want us to go out, because the things that that could happen. So
(08:31):
so when I went to Kenora, Ontario for the 1st time in my life, leaving home on my own and facing it right on right onto everybody's head. You know, I was picked on at the hockey rink. I had a lot of fights 1st a little bit, and I went to school. I had some fights there, and it was all based on the way I looked, and I went down. I went
(08:55):
downtown. One time I was walking by the this hotel, which was on the water, and some guy thought I was looking at his girlfriend, or whatever. So he got mad, and he was a grown man.
and he grabbed me and roughed me up, and he was going to throw me over that cliff, and it was 2030 feet down, I mean, I don't think I would have got up from that, but, thank God, there were some people around, so I was well equipped with those type of stories before I went, so I kind of learned how to block it out a little bit and still be proud of who I was, and don't let them chase, because my 2 brothers came to town
(09:34):
and because I wrote letters we didn't have a phone. So I wrote letters stating some of the stuff that was going on. I didn't want to get too much in detail, because my father just passed away that year that I left, so I didn't want to add more trauma onto the onto the family, worrying about me. And they were thinking I was having this great old time playing hockey, so I wrote some, but they must have read through it, and they came to town to bring me home.
(10:02):
and and I still remembered. And I told my younger brother, Steve. I said, Steve, if I if I leave now the next tough situation in my life. I'll probably quit that, too.
And then I kind of had a flashback to all the American Indian movement guys and what they're doing and how they're fighting for for us and all our elders what they went through with the residential schools. They're fighting for us. So I just really wanted to keep the fight going, and then, and pay homage to them with my fight. And then, when I played my 1st game in
(10:40):
National League, I dropped tobacco in their honor, so I don't think I would have made it if I was born anywhere else.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:50):
Amazing.
I I love the use of the word learn, and if you listen, you know.
in listening to your story and the way you tell it.
You knew you had the ingredients like you knew who you were, despite the challenges, but you had to learn how to use who you were, and your
(11:13):
and and and you know your indigenous heritage all of the learnings on the Powwow circuit. You had to learn how to use that
to win right. It wasn't a matter of adding things. It wasn't like I needed to find the great goaltender. I wish I was taller. I wish I was stronger. I wish I were this. I wish I were that, but it was still just learning how to put the pieces that you have together to win right? I mean, that's the experimentation process that you're talking about.
Ted (11:41):
Exactly. I mean, because I heard so many people my whole life. Kinda I didn't make it because
I couldn't go to school, because there's always that, because and as I was growing, I always wondered why, you know, and some people would try. And all of a sudden they just couldn't handle it mentally or physically, or and I'm not here to blame anyone. It just I learned from their experiences and saying.
(12:14):
why, so I just went, and I said, No matter what happens, I'm going to fight, and I got to learn to work with what I have in order to. When I got to Kenora. I didn't have a new pair of skates. They bought me one, and then I never practiced more than once a week, because all my Recreational League was once a week practices.
(12:38):
We had an outdoor rink, and I didn't have the foggiest idea what conditioning was. I didn't know you had to be a conditioned athlete to play major junior hockey in Canada. I just played because I love to play, and then you learn as you go, and you observe, I've always observed people. So I went to Kenora. I'm going, man, these guys are pretty fit.
(13:01):
Then he talked about quick feet.
and they talked about power and explosiveness, and they talked about having that man strength. So I went home and I made up my own training facility. We have hills, we have ground, and we could run. So I started running, and I started, and then my home crowd. They asked me one day, What are you running for? I said, well, I'm going to be a better athlete. So it doesn't matter. You're not going to get a chance, anyways.
(13:33):
so that that when you start off in that behavior, thought, you're not going to make it, and I just refuse to to not believe. And when I went to Kenora it really switched my mind. I used to love love to play.
I just love to play. I just like the intricacies of the game, the passing, the getting in the open, the body contact, where you take away the hands versus taking away the power, how to get the one from A to B quicker than the opposition. What you're going to do when you get the Puck versus what you're going to do when you don't have the Puck. So I thought of all that stuff, and I just refuse to believe that
(14:15):
that I couldn't, and they were not going to set me home. So I just worked and worked and worked, and eventually got better. So when I started running on the hills in Garden River, and I started chopping down trees, because that was for my upper body power, I ran on railroad tracks
because the tiles going back and forth were sometimes 6 feet 6 inches apart. So you have to have quick feet. If you don't have quick feet. You're going to fall. And then I walked back on the rail part for balance, and so I just really learned to learn to work with what I had, and not complain. And and you know some people have the luxury of doing things. But I never I never! Said Jeez. I wish I had that after that point.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:03):
Amazing. And you know it's it's amazing, for
if you're just listening to this
got to see Ted light up when he talks about running on the railway tracks. You love
loved it, you know. It really feels like you loved the idea of learning
how to use or how to get better at something, and that power of observation
(15:25):
really obviously played out very well for you, because, you know, you came from
not having this organized hockey minor hockey upbringing right? You didn't play what we would call competitive hockey
at that time, but you still ascended. You went all the way to the pros, and then obviously became.
(15:46):
it got involved in coaching.
It was always through observation, right? Like you always learn through observation. Do you think that that started
in the power circuit, watching and listening to the stories and observing the stories and the heritage, is that some some of the learning learning to learn is, I think, a really important thing is that where you
(16:06):
maybe 1st got experience with that.
Ted (16:09):
That's a great observation right there, I think, in life we learn and what we see and excuse me.
and growing up in a powwow circuit and seeing the ceremonies. I had a trap line when I was a little boy we used to go hunting and fishing all the time, and when I started coaching. As I mentioned, I never went to hockey clinics or coaching certification programs and learn how to coach, and I'm not too sure how you really learn how to coach.
(16:42):
but my coaching philosophy has always been. I coach this spirit of the athlete
because everybody has talent. Some are good, some are okay. Some are really good, but that doesn't define the athlete. What defines the athlete is the spirit within them, and if you take time to find out who they are. I tell you you're going to get a lot more a lot more mileage mileage out of them than you normally would. So I really observed, and like the way that when I went hunting.
(17:12):
you know, we asked some some guys from the city come hunting with us. One time they they came in they put their deodorant on, and soap and shampoo, and you could smell them a mile away. The animals have a great sense of smell. They're going to smell you 2 miles away before we even get there. So we learned how to make a big smudge fire and jump in the middle and smoke ourselves.
(17:36):
you become part of it, and then you watch the way the geese fly.
I mean, the head goose doesn't lead the way the whole way
he gets tired, as leaders do. Then you have to have somebody else come in and take the lead. So I just took a lot of the way I got raised into coaching. Then, when I started coaching, I had to learn a little bit because I was God awful! I wasn't a very good coach at all, but one of the books I bought was sacred hoops by Phil Jackson.
(18:08):
and then he was. He studied Buddhism. He studied native spirituality, and he took some of those concepts and put them in with his team, and I could just picture Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan sitting around in a circle inside their their locker room in order to get ready for the for the for the competition. I'm going jeez if he could do it with those guys.
(18:33):
I could certainly do it with a whole bunch of teenagers. So I started implementing a little bit of how I got raised and working with what I have, and don't complain if we're down to nothing going in the 3rd period. It's not the end of the world. There's ways to come back if you're willing to sacrifice, and I've always I always felt winners always did something
(18:56):
different than than people that don't.
Winners are willing to sacrifice certain things in order to accomplish so winning is hard. And so I just really try to get the players that I was involved with doing simple things that are more consistent. If you do things more consistently right than the opposition, there's a chances of winning is pretty good.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:24):
When you were able to start bringing
your heritage, your culture, your learnings to your coaching.
What opened up for you? Because that's really bringing all of what you have to coaching right.
and I feel like your ability to connect with
(19:44):
in sometimes challenge players. But but all players, by bringing all of who you have or who you are
really sort of morphed your coaching career right like
you talked about smudging even with athletes, with the players in the, in, the rank.
Ted (20:02):
Yeah, it just learned from a real young age, and I was very proud of my and listening to the elders in our communities and throughout Turtle Island, and listen to to the stories of what they went through, and how they, the power of prayer, and smudging and ceremonies, and
(20:23):
and being proud of who we are as a people, not any more special than the next person, but just being proud. I just really wanted to take that, although I was a coach.
but as a 1st Nation coach, and I wanted to implement some of the things, and like I said when I when I played. I always felt there was a hierarchy in the business.
(20:49):
I felt. If you're a superstar boy. Oh, boy, you get to make lots of turnovers, and you get to make a lot of mistakes because the reward is going to be better because they're going to score you 50 goals. But if you're in the 3rd line, 4th line. You make a turnover. You make a mistake. You're going to see your butt on that bench, and you might not even might not even play the rest of the game, and even worse.
(21:14):
you might get sent down to the miners, and I always felt why, why, such a drastic input. You're all part of a team, you know, watching the
the football game last night with Kansas City chiefs. And they asked the quarterback, what makes you guys, he said. We're a team. We're a team and nobody no more special. And I took that philosophy because I'm from a family of 12.
(21:44):
There's 12 of us, and we're all young. We have our own little Twerks, and I always felt that I was the gifted one. I always felt I was the smartest one. I was the lucky one I was the most loved. And then I overheard my sister talking about with her friends, and she was saying the same thing I felt
(22:07):
then I heard my brother say it to his friends. You know there's 12 of us. We felt the same, and I'm going. Why can't you take the same approach and put it into hockey? I'm not saying a 3rd line, 4th line guide is going to play as much as a
1st line, Guy.
but he should feel just as important. So I really claimed into the clamped into the everybody's important, and everybody deserves respect. Whether you, whether you get 5 min of ice semi, you get 55 doesn't matter. So I just, I just put that philosophy and all the players just really. And then, when we got big leads, you don't have to win by 10 goals.
(22:49):
but it looks good on stats because I got 60 goals. But how about the poor guy on the 4th line, who has 2 goals, maybe his 4 and 5 and 6, and even 10 goals would make a big difference in his life. So I just really kind of got clamped it all together, because that's that's the way I was raised, and the players seem to like it.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:09):
I think it's amazing, too, that when you, when you talk about that, what do you think the impact is? When a when a coach or a leader
appreciates the team evenly.
Doesn't that change how they look at each other a little bit, too? It doesn't it mean, doesn't it bring the team together. When the coach
and the leader binds the team as equals the way you did.
Ted (23:32):
No question at all, because when I 1st got the job with the buffalo sabres I flew back home, and I was so excited, and I didn't get back until 12 o'clock flight, and yet my my family was waiting for us.
waiting for me, and we went to our house. We had a fire, and we sat around. We talked about how the how the interview go, and how the excitement they just wanted to hear about the the excitement of the day. And my younger brother goes, Ted, what are you going to tell Pat Lafontaine
(24:04):
when you when you coach them?
I mean it's a superstar. Well, how are you going to make him better? What are you going to say to him? And that was the 1st time I was stumped in my entire life. I'm going jeez. I don't know what I'm going to tell him. I mean, he knows everything there there is. He probably knows more than I do.
And I said, You know, I really don't know. And then one of the 1st guys I met because he was team captain was Pat Lafontaine.
(24:32):
and we start talking about life, and we start talking about other things. And I called up my brother. I said, I got nothing to worry about what I'm going to say to Pat Lafontaine because he's a real good man. He's going to understand the concept of all that stuff. So we so it just kind of took off from there leadership on your whatever team that you have or whatever organization that you have is really important. You can't have one pretending he's
(24:55):
or she is above everybody else, because we're all in the same boat, going in the same direction, and we need one another.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:03):
Yeah. And and I think that one of the things. So you talked about leadership, understanding that it's that they're all part of it.
But you did that for the
for the weaker players, for the you know, when when.
when Ted, you're talking about the 4th line players, these are the players that in a 60 min game may play 5 to 10 min of the time. They're not the stars. They they don't get equal playing time as the stars. Of course they're they're journey players. They're role players in different sports and and different organizations have role players, too. But you paid them no less attention than you paid the stars right? You
(25:38):
everybody's got to learn together. Everybody's got to get a second chance after they make a mistake. Everybody's got to have the chance to learn with what they've got right. Learn to win, to win, learn to win with what they've got right.
Ted (25:50):
Yeah. And then you you kinda
going. I always when when I was when I was playing the coach, never was worried whether I went to school or not.
He never asked me once, hey? And and I didn't go to school the one year when I was in Kenora I was in grade 10. I failed the whole year. I think they give me a Phys. Ed credit, which well, I don't know why they give it to me, because I never went to school, and they didn't seem to
(26:20):
seem to to care, and when and hockey is the same thing. So when I became a coach and part of my family upbringing. I really wanted to make sure that the players understood that I
that I understood who they are. When we went to some some town where a player was close by. You know his whole family is going to come and watch, and they're going to bring like I did. We had to bring 2 busloads in to come, and so you kind of squeeze a little bit, give them a little bit more ice time.
(26:50):
Give him a little bit more show. So his family is going to be. Don't sit him on the bench and let the people walk away disappointed, because I just really believe in in. When we got to a point where we're, you know, winning the game, say
5, 1, 6, 1 going into 3rd period. Why do the stars have to play that much more. So I played the 3rd and 4th line a little bit more than normal. I put them on a power play. Put them in penalty because everybody thinks I'm trying to be an equal. No, it's not about being equal. It's about being prepared, because if you go into the playoffs.
(27:28):
and all of a sudden one of your star players gets hurt, and if your players below them are not used to
those type of situations and never played those situations. Then we ask them to do something that they're ill prepared to do. So you just kind of prepare your whole team that so anything happens, the whole team is ready.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:50):
Put a heart in the corner
of your napkin, and I don't think in talking to you that's a mistake that that's an accident like I get the sense that 1st of all.
you appreciate that coaching is teaching. Coaching is
teaching job. Am I wrong when I, when I make that observation.
Ted (28:06):
No, you're a thousand percent right? It's about life. I mean, when we, when I have junior players that are 1718, 19 years old, and all their dreams and ambitions and goals in life is to play. They want to play in the National Hockey League, but in reality
a very, very small percentage are going to. But you don't want to take into his dreams and ambitions away from him. But also you've got to prepare them that if things don't work out, and the best way to prepare them is through education to make sure they go to school, and if they don't go to school they don't play.
(28:43):
and whether you're a star player or not, the rules are same as far as schooling is concerned, because that has nothing to do with playing, and when I became the coach of the Sioux Greyhounds, I asked my general manager if I could put in a rule, because no one seemed to care whether I went to school or not, and I had to struggle. I finally
(29:04):
graduated grade 12, when I was 20 years old, and I didn't want that for the at least say if they graduate during our program, then they can go on to university and with their life. So I asked if I could put a rule a rule in with hockey. And I got all the guys to buy in. I said, Boys, what do you think if we put in this rule that
(29:25):
if if Tommy or Jimmy misses school for no reason, he just didn't want to go, that we have a wake up, we have wake up, call, and we'll practice at 5 Am. Next morning, no matter when, because Tommy and Jimmy didn't want to go to school, what do you think it's part of a group. So they all clapped and said, Oh, wonderful idea! So anyways, we went through this season, sure enough, somebody missed school for no reason
(29:51):
if they were sick. It's a reason they had no reason to miss. So we woke up at 5 Am. And we practiced, and it was kind of cute. The guys were kind of having fun with it a little bit. Then somebody else missed again, but probably 2 weeks later.
Then it wasn't so much fun anymore.
because I skated them pretty hard the 3rd time the person who missed school the boys wanted a they wanted to get them real bad. So we just kind of separated. And they started understanding the concept of someone making a mistake within our family. And lo and behold, I tell you, the last 4 years. The last 3 years I was in the Zoo. We had 0 missed.
(30:35):
Nobody missed school, and everybody graduated, and I'm very proud of all the things I've done, a lot of players graduated. They went off. Some are policemen, some are accountants, some are chiropractors and so forth. And now they're they're good abiding citizens for our country.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:56):
It's amazing.
So so you talk about teaching. And
but most of all, you talk about caring like there's a lot of love like, can you?
Can you truly coach somebody or teach somebody? Do you think if you don't care about them.
Ted (31:13):
I personally don't. And I think if you, if you look at
championship organizations and and you you hear that word all the time, we just felt like a family.
But then you look at people who are trying to get there, or they say the same words, but they're not following through with the, with the, with the real concept of how to do it. So I just really I you know.
(31:40):
with my upbringing I just knew the way I was treated, and when I played with the with the Sioux greyhounds, and they left me behind twice like, How do you leave a player behind who's 17 years old, 18 years old, and you have to fend, and how to get to the rink. And they dropped me off. We stopped one time to get some snacks, and I was the last person in line.
(32:04):
Me and another player, and the bus took off and left us there. How do you do that to someone.
and the one player, the player I was with. He hitchhiked back home, he said. Screw those guys and I jumped on the other side of the road, and I thumbed the way to the game.
and a truck driver pulled over, picked me up, and he drove me right to the arena, and I got to the arena quicker than the bus did.
(32:30):
But how do you do that? So I just took all those feelings that I had as a player. Jeez, I wish I would have enjoyed my my time much more, and it's such an easy thing to do is just appreciate the person that you have, and I'm not saying they're going to score you 20 more goals. It's just, but they're going to compete a little bit harder for you.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:52):
So what about the person? And I'm sure you've had the instance where
you've had a player. Come onto your team. You've got a family. That's your approach.
For whatever reason they're hurting, they're not themselves, they don't.
They don't know how to be a part of a family, and maybe they're destructive in that environment.
How do you help that person.
Ted (33:13):
Well, yeah, it's a little bit harder, and you have to have patience. I mean, everybody's not the same. And I had. I had a player in junior hockey and turn around. And but we're talking about a turtle. Something happened in a hockey game, so I started giving it to the line, and he turned around. He said, F. You you stinking Oahu.
I mean, I am the head coach.
(33:36):
and I'm sitting down. And a young 1819 year old kid turns around tells me to F. You and you stink in Wahoo and get a welfare check. Go home. And you know those type of things, and I'm sitting right there, and I got the whole team in front of me. And I'm going, how do you? How do you react? And so I didn't say anything to him at that particular time. We finished off the game, and the next next morning we had a discussion.
(34:05):
and I said, You can't say those type of things. I mean, if you go to work and you say something about your boss because he's he's of different color than you are. Guess what you can get your ass fired.
You go to school and you say something there. Guess what? They're going to kick you out.
We're playing a hockey game. Hopefully, you learn a lesson. You just can't, can't do it. I don't appreciate what you said, and I talked to the team about what he said, and we had no more incidences. And then I'm coaching the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League and all the fans are doing the tomahawk chop behind the bench, and they start doing the war cry, and that was one of the most
(34:47):
humiliating situations ever had my entire life. But then I look at it, and I always kind of grab your
your your soul from your body, and see if you're sitting here watching this. What would you do in that in that situation, and I'm going. Easiest thing for me to do was was respond and grab my stick and start slashing. But then I had a whole bunch of people, a bunch of players looking
(35:13):
to me as their leader. And how do you? How do you react? And so I just kind of blocked it out and continued, and they can make their own assumptions of what they would have done in that situation. But it's a i think we're all life lessons as we go, and if you break it down hockey and and baseball or football, it really is just a sport. Unfortunately, when you get pro.
(35:37):
there's a lot of money attached to it, and and people do crazy things in order to try to win. But if you just really keep the concept of getting good athletes and doing the right thing more often the opposition. Guess what your chances of winning. We went to 3 straight memorial cups, and we didn't go to memorial cups by accident. We worked on it every every time.
(36:02):
and I still remember we I called time out at the Memorial Cup final. We're winning 2, 1 against Peterborough for the for the Memorial Cup, and I called time out. They had an extra attacker. They were putting pressure on us, and they called Timeout.
and I brought all the players to the bench. I said, look at the crowd!
Look how excited they are.
(36:24):
because in 1 min and 30 seconds. We're going to become national champions. I didn't talk to them about protecting the lead, and their hands get really tight, and they started thinking about what they had to do, because we did it 101 times already. We did that already. The only thing we had to do is for another minute, 30, and and sure enough, we're very fortunate to win the cup.
Govindh Jayaraman (36:49):
Just the to me, the the presence of mind. This idea of
taking your soul's view of the situation gives you this ability to to
1st of all, maybe assess the situation from a different perspective, but also bring all of who you are to that moment and appreciate that moment like that just giving your players the gift to
(37:13):
to recognize how special that moment was with a minute and a half left in the game.
That's powerful. That's a real gift.
Have you been able to to use that in other parts of your life? I mean, look coaching. You've you've
you've also seen your 2 sons play in in the nhl, and they've become players, and your youngest Jordan won Stanley cups
(37:40):
was that part of being a father like? Were you able to apply that there in teaching them. Now.
I know also, you play a great role as a mentor to indigenous communities across
across North America. Speaking frequently is is that is, that something that you're able to
continue to use in different ways.
Ted (38:01):
Yeah, cause I I maybe because I had such a different upbringing. And I appreciate I appreciate the the food more so than anything we. We do a lot of a lot of work with the with the food banks and and donations. And and what have you
(38:21):
And I just I just grew up with with not so many means. I didn't have a car to get to the practice. I didn't have the the proper equipment to play, and the easiest thing for me to do was was complain with the things I haven't got.
I mean, it's it's unfortunate it didn't happen, but I was lucky enough that I was able to hitchhike once in a while, and and hitchhike to the game and get to the game, and and when I hitchhike to got to a game and someone drove me the day before because I couldn't get to practice, and we only had one, I couldn't get to practice because we didn't have a car, and I get to the game, and the coach sat me out
(39:06):
because I missed practice, and I still remember my dad. We walked. He was he was fuming, and so, anyway, she grabbed him. He said, that's it. You're not playing there no more.
and and I walked out, and I said, I want to play. And he said, No, you're not playing there anymore. And and I just at that point it just kind of
(39:30):
dawned on me that if somebody misses something that something happened in their life that maybe
stop them from, so we're too quick to judge. We blame someone for Turnover. We blame someone for a mistake. But maybe the night before he had some bad news in his family. But if you don't know that you're going to assume. So I tried to get the assume assuming out of me and finding out. So I met with our players quite a bit and talked to them about life
(40:01):
because you look at hockey or any sport before you blink an eyeball it's over.
so you might as well enjoy what you're doing, and hopefully save enough money to help you with your next career, because we all have to have one, and not to get into the unrealistic part that the rest of your life is going to be like that because it's not. The autographs are going to stop. People are going to stop asking for that. They're going to stop asking to come to events, and things are going to stop. What are you going to do? And who are you?
(40:36):
So those things I was because I was. I got hurt back entry, and I went back home, and I had no education outside of high school. I didn't know what I was going to do. I had no trade, so I went back to school, and nobody from the hockey organizations called me and say, hey, Ted, we got a wonderful opportunity, and even right now there's nothing there, so I'm not asking for it. But you have to make your own way.
Govindh Jayaraman (41:04):
Amazing. And you and you're doing amazing work with 3 Nolans, your foundation to pay that forward to other communities. Right?
Ted (41:12):
No, no question. I mean, if there's anything I'm proud of more so than anything is the work that we've been able to do with my 2 boys and Brandon, my oldest one. He used to come to hockey schools with me when I had him in 1st Nation communities, and then, when I had my family I kind of stopped doing as much as I did, because I wanted to be a dad more
(41:37):
so then, traveling in wintertime and traveling in the summertime. So we stopped them, and then he came home one day and he said, Dad, what do you think about starting up the hockey schools again.
and then this time we'll use all 3 of us, Jordan. He won, you know, as part of 3 standing cup teams, myself and yourself. We all played. We talked to the kids about schooling, and then substance abuses. And what have you? So we've been doing it now for 5, 10 years, or whatever. I'm not sure exactly how long we've been doing it. But it's been just wonderful. We've been going to
(42:12):
to events we bring in. Sometimes we're lucky enough to get sponsors. We bring in computers. But the whole trick of the hockey school is not. It's the same thing as coaching junior. Everybody's not going to play pro, and everybody's not going to leave the community to play sports, but they could certainly leave for education.
So we talk about the importance of schooling and and carpentry and woodworking, and mechanics and police officers and doctors, and and what have you? So we've been? We've been doing that for for a long time combined with.
(42:47):
I forgot to mention, but my mother was killed by a drunk driver when I was only 2021 years of age.
and it took me a long, long time to even talk about, or even think about or discuss it. And in 96, I think 97
(43:11):
After I was going through some some very, very hard times after I got let go by the buffalo sabres, I started talking to my wife, and going through some therapy, and what have you? And and so on. As we came about, the concept said, Let's start a foundation. And we could raise money for 1st nation women across the country.
(43:32):
and we started off in Ontario. Then we branched off, and I'm proud to say we raised close to 2 to 3 million dollars for 1st Nation Women's Education Fund. So anyways, long story short, through this hockey stuff, it's not so much the hockey. It's a dream of of
(43:52):
whatever you want to do in life, you can, but you got to make sure you do the right things. You can go there and work for for 2 months, and it gets tough. And so it's not for me. You got to fight through those muddy waters a little bit and give yourself a little time, and like when I was in Kenora, boy. Oh, boy, I did. I never wanted to stay there. I didn't like it. I despised it, but if I, if I wouldn't have
(44:19):
wouldn't have stayed. We certainly wouldn't be having this talk, and I certainly wouldn't be able to do the things I did in life. If I quit.
Govindh Jayaraman (44:29):
I think that idea of learning to win with what you've got.
The emphasis on learning is so important, and it's so
such a big part of your story such a gift
to have sat down with you here today, Ted. I'm so grateful
that you shared this story with me
(44:50):
at the end of every paper napkin wisdom episode this season we've been doing a shout out based on this idea of what you appreciate in the world appreciates and value. So with that in mind, is there someone you'd like to shout out, Ted.
Ted (45:02):
Oh, man, I had a whole bunch of a whole bunch of people, but probably the biggest thing. And like I said, when you read the book. You'll understand a little bit more. When I went away to Kenora. It was such a traumatic experience for me. I didn't want to leave again.
Sioux greyhounds were right there. Then, all of a sudden I didn't know about the Nhl draft. They drafted me and put me in training camp asked me to go to Kansas City, Missouri.
(45:31):
Yeah, which was a long, long ways from home, and I went and I caught the bus and I went back home, I said, I'm going to become a police officer. I don't want to be away from from home, and and I was dating a young girl at the time she was only 17, and we started talking. I said, Will you come with me
(45:52):
if I go back? And then she came. She was 17 years old that I was 1920, just turning 20, and we lived together for a little. Then we got married. We've been married now for 45 years, and we have 2 wonderful boys, and we got 5 grandchildren. But if she didn't come
(46:12):
as much as I said I did this, or I wanted to do that. I would never been able to do it, because there's no way I would have, because I was too traumatized in order to try again, but because of her, she said, Oh, it won't be that bad! And then she helped with the banking finding of the house, and so forth. So
(46:36):
you know, even even concept of hockey sometimes. But if it wasn't for my wife, Sandra, we wouldn't have this conversation.
Govindh Jayaraman (46:45):
Well, so you're chatting with Sandra, and
it sounds like a beautiful partnership. And again, thank you for joining me.
Ted (46:55):
Thank you very much.
Ted Nolan. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Ted (00:08):
Well, thank you very much for having me on, and when I heard about the paper napkin, it kind of fit right up my Alley. So thanks very much for having me in.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:16):
Yeah, you, you said, coming into this, that you pretty much took
millions of notes on paper napkins all the way through your life and career.
Ted (00:24):
Yeah. You know, it's funny we talk about paper napkins, because when I started coaching I didn't do the traditional route of coaching, I didn't go to the hockey clinics. I didn't start off at Pv. And Banham, and I just got thrown right into the fire. Phyllis Mozito asked me one day if I'd be interested in being a part-time assistant coach with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the Ontario Hockey League and within. We'll talk about this later, but within a month they fired the head coach and said.
(00:53):
Hey, Ted, can you take over? So it kind of boomed from there. But I had no idea what I was doing, and I ran into a player that I much respected, and his name was Marcel Peronovo.
and I just kind of ran into him one day, and you know everybody talks about systems and methods of playing. And so I just asked him, so what what was the system back in the day. Did you guys have systems like we do nowadays? And now the I guess the new coaches are asking us if we had systems. But anyway? I asked him, and he grabbed a paper napkin.
(01:30):
and he drew a little rink
and one end of the rink. He drew a little house in front of the front of the net and the opposite goal. He drew another little house, and he said, then he connected the 2 with the with the 2 lines, and he said in their end, we try to get the Puck in the house, and at our end we keep the Puck out of the house and at Center race. We just keep the Puck to the outside, and I'm going jeez so simple yet effective. So I kind of copied that for my whole career.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:01):
That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, you didn't draw any rinks on the paper napkin that you shared with me today. But I'm really curious about it, and there's there's so you wrote, learn to win with what you got, and there's a heart on it.
Why did you share that with me?
Ted (02:18):
You know, because I my whole life, you know, growing up where I grew up. We we didn't grow up with the best of means. My 1st 1st skates were size, size, 6 or 7. My feet were only size 3 or 4. The helmets didn't really fit properly. This kind of rattle all over your head. We had those old mouth guards. I didn't play triple a hockey in double a at the beginning. I didn't. I played host League hockey, and
(02:45):
and when I went to rank my stick was always too short because we couldn't. We couldn't afford a new hockey stick, so it just kind of went and and
learn to learn to work with what I had. And my my father said, just because we're poor, you don't have to act poor.
You work with what you have. So I was very thankful for the things I had my whole life, and I just learned how to how to work with them, and it came into 2 life lessons, because when I started coaching seriously when I started coaching the Sault Ste grounds.
(03:22):
you know when I 1st started, you know, a typical of anybody would say, Geez, I wish I had a really good goaltender. I wish I had big defense. I wish I had a better better, but I was the wrong one. I had everything that I needed, and I just had to work with what I had, and we worked with what we had. And then all of a sudden, we went to 3 National National Championships. And so I just really.
(03:46):
I'm thankful every day that I get to work I get to come home, open up my fridge, and there's food inside. So so you just got to learn to work with what you have, and be thankful.
Govindh Jayaraman (03:58):
That's amazing. And I know. So
I reached out because I read your book. And and you know.
sometimes people say this, you know the the endorsements of the books are the front of the book, right? People writing good things about it and say it will make you laugh. It'll make you cry. And it isn't an emotional book to read.
(04:21):
because
this lesson, learning to win with what you got was really everywhere through it. And then, quite. It was something that your father said, but it was also something that came to you in the hockey world. Right? You got a great message
from French euro that was similar to this, too. It was like a constant reminder.
(04:42):
even though it was so important to you early in your life, learning to win with what you got. And you talked about your hockey origin story.
Did you have to remind yourself of it often through those challenges, or or was it something that you just always had?
Ted (04:56):
I. You know I was very blessed in the way that I got raised, and I keep telling this to a lot of people. I wouldn't change a thing in the world, even though it was tough at times and woke up. There was no, not too much food, and the wood stove went out, and you were cold, and you had the same same clothes, and you didn't quite fit in at school and and everything but at home. Geez! We had more more care, more love, than anybody could
(05:25):
get asked for, so I never really sat down and said, I wish I would have had something else, because I was very thankful for what I had, and and I try to pass that on to my kids, because my parents certainly passed it on to me, and it's just one of those legacies that I really want to continue. It's not the material things in life, I mean, although it's it's nice to have a car
(05:49):
to be able to drive to the grocery store, and it's nice to be able to turn the lights on and pay for your electricity bill. But this is some. Some
simplicity of life is the most important thing. Sometimes we we try to think so much where we're going. We forget what we're doing while we're getting there. So I just really I I wouldn't have changed my my upbringing for for all the money and all the money in the world, because I I was very thankful I was very appreciative. And and sometimes you.
(06:24):
if I could change it all and say, wipe off what I had, go back to where I was. I would probably do that.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:31):
It's amazing.
So this idea of learning to win with what you got. And and I mean, I can just sort of see the gratitude
also for life's lessons, I mean, for where you came from you you appreciate it all.
You appreciate the people you appreciate everything.
Did you have
a process to to remind yourself of that in the midst of challenges. Because I know I know it.
(06:55):
Your story was was hard, right. There was a lot of discrimination early on against indigenous communities, and you faced that. You had to fight through that
I'm sure it was difficult at times to remember
to be grateful, or remember to learn to win with what you got.
Did you find that challenging, or did you just lean on family? How did you do that?
Ted (07:17):
Yeah, you know, I think I was so inbreaded on how I was raised. I grew up on. We have a powwow trail in our communities. We have a lot of powwows, and my mom introduced me to the traditional side of my life, and she took me to powwows right across North America into the United States. Up to Alberta we went to
(07:42):
ceremonies all over the place, and and I was really enriched by what we do and how we did it. That was the life that I was so proud of what we we've done. Then I got involved with a little bit, with understanding the the aim movement at the time, the American Indian movement, and how they're fighting for our rights.
(08:06):
And then I started hearing stories about the residential schools and and what had, what transpired there, and the horrific stories that were told to us, and and the fear of letting our I could see the fear why they didn't want us to go out, because the things that that could happen. So
(08:31):
so when I went to Kenora, Ontario for the 1st time in my life, leaving home on my own and facing it right on right onto everybody's head. You know, I was picked on at the hockey rink. I had a lot of fights 1st a little bit, and I went to school. I had some fights there, and it was all based on the way I looked, and I went down. I went
(08:55):
downtown. One time I was walking by the this hotel, which was on the water, and some guy thought I was looking at his girlfriend, or whatever. So he got mad, and he was a grown man.
and he grabbed me and roughed me up, and he was going to throw me over that cliff, and it was 2030 feet down, I mean, I don't think I would have got up from that, but, thank God, there were some people around, so I was well equipped with those type of stories before I went, so I kind of learned how to block it out a little bit and still be proud of who I was, and don't let them chase, because my 2 brothers came to town
(09:34):
and because I wrote letters we didn't have a phone. So I wrote letters stating some of the stuff that was going on. I didn't want to get too much in detail, because my father just passed away that year that I left, so I didn't want to add more trauma onto the onto the family, worrying about me. And they were thinking I was having this great old time playing hockey, so I wrote some, but they must have read through it, and they came to town to bring me home.
(10:02):
and and I still remembered. And I told my younger brother, Steve. I said, Steve, if I if I leave now the next tough situation in my life. I'll probably quit that, too.
And then I kind of had a flashback to all the American Indian movement guys and what they're doing and how they're fighting for for us and all our elders what they went through with the residential schools. They're fighting for us. So I just really wanted to keep the fight going, and then, and pay homage to them with my fight. And then, when I played my 1st game in
(10:40):
National League, I dropped tobacco in their honor, so I don't think I would have made it if I was born anywhere else.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:50):
Amazing.
I I love the use of the word learn, and if you listen, you know.
in listening to your story and the way you tell it.
You knew you had the ingredients like you knew who you were, despite the challenges, but you had to learn how to use who you were, and your
(11:13):
and and and you know your indigenous heritage all of the learnings on the Powwow circuit. You had to learn how to use that
to win right. It wasn't a matter of adding things. It wasn't like I needed to find the great goaltender. I wish I was taller. I wish I was stronger. I wish I were this. I wish I were that, but it was still just learning how to put the pieces that you have together to win right? I mean, that's the experimentation process that you're talking about.
Ted (11:41):
Exactly. I mean, because I heard so many people my whole life. Kinda I didn't make it because
I couldn't go to school, because there's always that, because and as I was growing, I always wondered why, you know, and some people would try. And all of a sudden they just couldn't handle it mentally or physically, or and I'm not here to blame anyone. It just I learned from their experiences and saying.
(12:14):
why, so I just went, and I said, No matter what happens, I'm going to fight, and I got to learn to work with what I have in order to. When I got to Kenora. I didn't have a new pair of skates. They bought me one, and then I never practiced more than once a week, because all my Recreational League was once a week practices.
(12:38):
We had an outdoor rink, and I didn't have the foggiest idea what conditioning was. I didn't know you had to be a conditioned athlete to play major junior hockey in Canada. I just played because I love to play, and then you learn as you go, and you observe, I've always observed people. So I went to Kenora. I'm going, man, these guys are pretty fit.
(13:01):
Then he talked about quick feet.
and they talked about power and explosiveness, and they talked about having that man strength. So I went home and I made up my own training facility. We have hills, we have ground, and we could run. So I started running, and I started, and then my home crowd. They asked me one day, What are you running for? I said, well, I'm going to be a better athlete. So it doesn't matter. You're not going to get a chance, anyways.
(13:33):
so that that when you start off in that behavior, thought, you're not going to make it, and I just refuse to to not believe. And when I went to Kenora it really switched my mind. I used to love love to play.
I just love to play. I just like the intricacies of the game, the passing, the getting in the open, the body contact, where you take away the hands versus taking away the power, how to get the one from A to B quicker than the opposition. What you're going to do when you get the Puck versus what you're going to do when you don't have the Puck. So I thought of all that stuff, and I just refuse to believe that
(14:15):
that I couldn't, and they were not going to set me home. So I just worked and worked and worked, and eventually got better. So when I started running on the hills in Garden River, and I started chopping down trees, because that was for my upper body power, I ran on railroad tracks
because the tiles going back and forth were sometimes 6 feet 6 inches apart. So you have to have quick feet. If you don't have quick feet. You're going to fall. And then I walked back on the rail part for balance, and so I just really learned to learn to work with what I had, and not complain. And and you know some people have the luxury of doing things. But I never I never! Said Jeez. I wish I had that after that point.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:03):
Amazing. And you know it's it's amazing, for
if you're just listening to this
got to see Ted light up when he talks about running on the railway tracks. You love
loved it, you know. It really feels like you loved the idea of learning
how to use or how to get better at something, and that power of observation
(15:25):
really obviously played out very well for you, because, you know, you came from
not having this organized hockey minor hockey upbringing right? You didn't play what we would call competitive hockey
at that time, but you still ascended. You went all the way to the pros, and then obviously became.
(15:46):
it got involved in coaching.
It was always through observation, right? Like you always learn through observation. Do you think that that started
in the power circuit, watching and listening to the stories and observing the stories and the heritage, is that some some of the learning learning to learn is, I think, a really important thing is that where you
(16:06):
maybe 1st got experience with that.
Ted (16:09):
That's a great observation right there, I think, in life we learn and what we see and excuse me.
and growing up in a powwow circuit and seeing the ceremonies. I had a trap line when I was a little boy we used to go hunting and fishing all the time, and when I started coaching. As I mentioned, I never went to hockey clinics or coaching certification programs and learn how to coach, and I'm not too sure how you really learn how to coach.
(16:42):
but my coaching philosophy has always been. I coach this spirit of the athlete
because everybody has talent. Some are good, some are okay. Some are really good, but that doesn't define the athlete. What defines the athlete is the spirit within them, and if you take time to find out who they are. I tell you you're going to get a lot more a lot more mileage mileage out of them than you normally would. So I really observed, and like the way that when I went hunting.
(17:12):
you know, we asked some some guys from the city come hunting with us. One time they they came in they put their deodorant on, and soap and shampoo, and you could smell them a mile away. The animals have a great sense of smell. They're going to smell you 2 miles away before we even get there. So we learned how to make a big smudge fire and jump in the middle and smoke ourselves.
(17:36):
you become part of it, and then you watch the way the geese fly.
I mean, the head goose doesn't lead the way the whole way
he gets tired, as leaders do. Then you have to have somebody else come in and take the lead. So I just took a lot of the way I got raised into coaching. Then, when I started coaching, I had to learn a little bit because I was God awful! I wasn't a very good coach at all, but one of the books I bought was sacred hoops by Phil Jackson.
(18:08):
and then he was. He studied Buddhism. He studied native spirituality, and he took some of those concepts and put them in with his team, and I could just picture Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan sitting around in a circle inside their their locker room in order to get ready for the for the for the competition. I'm going jeez if he could do it with those guys.
(18:33):
I could certainly do it with a whole bunch of teenagers. So I started implementing a little bit of how I got raised and working with what I have, and don't complain if we're down to nothing going in the 3rd period. It's not the end of the world. There's ways to come back if you're willing to sacrifice, and I've always I always felt winners always did something
(18:56):
different than than people that don't.
Winners are willing to sacrifice certain things in order to accomplish so winning is hard. And so I just really try to get the players that I was involved with doing simple things that are more consistent. If you do things more consistently right than the opposition, there's a chances of winning is pretty good.
Govindh Jayaraman (19:24):
When you were able to start bringing
your heritage, your culture, your learnings to your coaching.
What opened up for you? Because that's really bringing all of what you have to coaching right.
and I feel like your ability to connect with
(19:44):
in sometimes challenge players. But but all players, by bringing all of who you have or who you are
really sort of morphed your coaching career right like
you talked about smudging even with athletes, with the players in the, in, the rank.
Ted (20:02):
Yeah, it just learned from a real young age, and I was very proud of my and listening to the elders in our communities and throughout Turtle Island, and listen to to the stories of what they went through, and how they, the power of prayer, and smudging and ceremonies, and
(20:23):
and being proud of who we are as a people, not any more special than the next person, but just being proud. I just really wanted to take that, although I was a coach.
but as a 1st Nation coach, and I wanted to implement some of the things, and like I said when I when I played. I always felt there was a hierarchy in the business.
(20:49):
I felt. If you're a superstar boy. Oh, boy, you get to make lots of turnovers, and you get to make a lot of mistakes because the reward is going to be better because they're going to score you 50 goals. But if you're in the 3rd line, 4th line. You make a turnover. You make a mistake. You're going to see your butt on that bench, and you might not even might not even play the rest of the game, and even worse.
(21:14):
you might get sent down to the miners, and I always felt why, why, such a drastic input. You're all part of a team, you know, watching the
the football game last night with Kansas City chiefs. And they asked the quarterback, what makes you guys, he said. We're a team. We're a team and nobody no more special. And I took that philosophy because I'm from a family of 12.
(21:44):
There's 12 of us, and we're all young. We have our own little Twerks, and I always felt that I was the gifted one. I always felt I was the smartest one. I was the lucky one I was the most loved. And then I overheard my sister talking about with her friends, and she was saying the same thing I felt
(22:07):
then I heard my brother say it to his friends. You know there's 12 of us. We felt the same, and I'm going. Why can't you take the same approach and put it into hockey? I'm not saying a 3rd line, 4th line guide is going to play as much as a
1st line, Guy.
but he should feel just as important. So I really claimed into the clamped into the everybody's important, and everybody deserves respect. Whether you, whether you get 5 min of ice semi, you get 55 doesn't matter. So I just, I just put that philosophy and all the players just really. And then, when we got big leads, you don't have to win by 10 goals.
(22:49):
but it looks good on stats because I got 60 goals. But how about the poor guy on the 4th line, who has 2 goals, maybe his 4 and 5 and 6, and even 10 goals would make a big difference in his life. So I just really kind of got clamped it all together, because that's that's the way I was raised, and the players seem to like it.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:09):
I think it's amazing, too, that when you, when you talk about that, what do you think the impact is? When a when a coach or a leader
appreciates the team evenly.
Doesn't that change how they look at each other a little bit, too? It doesn't it mean, doesn't it bring the team together. When the coach
and the leader binds the team as equals the way you did.
Ted (23:32):
No question at all, because when I 1st got the job with the buffalo sabres I flew back home, and I was so excited, and I didn't get back until 12 o'clock flight, and yet my my family was waiting for us.
waiting for me, and we went to our house. We had a fire, and we sat around. We talked about how the how the interview go, and how the excitement they just wanted to hear about the the excitement of the day. And my younger brother goes, Ted, what are you going to tell Pat Lafontaine
(24:04):
when you when you coach them?
I mean it's a superstar. Well, how are you going to make him better? What are you going to say to him? And that was the 1st time I was stumped in my entire life. I'm going jeez. I don't know what I'm going to tell him. I mean, he knows everything there there is. He probably knows more than I do.
And I said, You know, I really don't know. And then one of the 1st guys I met because he was team captain was Pat Lafontaine.
(24:32):
and we start talking about life, and we start talking about other things. And I called up my brother. I said, I got nothing to worry about what I'm going to say to Pat Lafontaine because he's a real good man. He's going to understand the concept of all that stuff. So we so it just kind of took off from there leadership on your whatever team that you have or whatever organization that you have is really important. You can't have one pretending he's
(24:55):
or she is above everybody else, because we're all in the same boat, going in the same direction, and we need one another.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:03):
Yeah. And and I think that one of the things. So you talked about leadership, understanding that it's that they're all part of it.
But you did that for the
for the weaker players, for the you know, when when.
when Ted, you're talking about the 4th line players, these are the players that in a 60 min game may play 5 to 10 min of the time. They're not the stars. They they don't get equal playing time as the stars. Of course they're they're journey players. They're role players in different sports and and different organizations have role players, too. But you paid them no less attention than you paid the stars right? You
(25:38):
everybody's got to learn together. Everybody's got to get a second chance after they make a mistake. Everybody's got to have the chance to learn with what they've got right. Learn to win, to win, learn to win with what they've got right.
Ted (25:50):
Yeah. And then you you kinda
going. I always when when I was when I was playing the coach, never was worried whether I went to school or not.
He never asked me once, hey? And and I didn't go to school the one year when I was in Kenora I was in grade 10. I failed the whole year. I think they give me a Phys. Ed credit, which well, I don't know why they give it to me, because I never went to school, and they didn't seem to
(26:20):
seem to to care, and when and hockey is the same thing. So when I became a coach and part of my family upbringing. I really wanted to make sure that the players understood that I
that I understood who they are. When we went to some some town where a player was close by. You know his whole family is going to come and watch, and they're going to bring like I did. We had to bring 2 busloads in to come, and so you kind of squeeze a little bit, give them a little bit more ice time.
(26:50):
Give him a little bit more show. So his family is going to be. Don't sit him on the bench and let the people walk away disappointed, because I just really believe in in. When we got to a point where we're, you know, winning the game, say
5, 1, 6, 1 going into 3rd period. Why do the stars have to play that much more. So I played the 3rd and 4th line a little bit more than normal. I put them on a power play. Put them in penalty because everybody thinks I'm trying to be an equal. No, it's not about being equal. It's about being prepared, because if you go into the playoffs.
(27:28):
and all of a sudden one of your star players gets hurt, and if your players below them are not used to
those type of situations and never played those situations. Then we ask them to do something that they're ill prepared to do. So you just kind of prepare your whole team that so anything happens, the whole team is ready.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:50):
Put a heart in the corner
of your napkin, and I don't think in talking to you that's a mistake that that's an accident like I get the sense that 1st of all.
you appreciate that coaching is teaching. Coaching is
teaching job. Am I wrong when I, when I make that observation.
Ted (28:06):
No, you're a thousand percent right? It's about life. I mean, when we, when I have junior players that are 1718, 19 years old, and all their dreams and ambitions and goals in life is to play. They want to play in the National Hockey League, but in reality
a very, very small percentage are going to. But you don't want to take into his dreams and ambitions away from him. But also you've got to prepare them that if things don't work out, and the best way to prepare them is through education to make sure they go to school, and if they don't go to school they don't play.
(28:43):
and whether you're a star player or not, the rules are same as far as schooling is concerned, because that has nothing to do with playing, and when I became the coach of the Sioux Greyhounds, I asked my general manager if I could put in a rule, because no one seemed to care whether I went to school or not, and I had to struggle. I finally
(29:04):
graduated grade 12, when I was 20 years old, and I didn't want that for the at least say if they graduate during our program, then they can go on to university and with their life. So I asked if I could put a rule a rule in with hockey. And I got all the guys to buy in. I said, Boys, what do you think if we put in this rule that
(29:25):
if if Tommy or Jimmy misses school for no reason, he just didn't want to go, that we have a wake up, we have wake up, call, and we'll practice at 5 Am. Next morning, no matter when, because Tommy and Jimmy didn't want to go to school, what do you think it's part of a group. So they all clapped and said, Oh, wonderful idea! So anyways, we went through this season, sure enough, somebody missed school for no reason
(29:51):
if they were sick. It's a reason they had no reason to miss. So we woke up at 5 Am. And we practiced, and it was kind of cute. The guys were kind of having fun with it a little bit. Then somebody else missed again, but probably 2 weeks later.
Then it wasn't so much fun anymore.
because I skated them pretty hard the 3rd time the person who missed school the boys wanted a they wanted to get them real bad. So we just kind of separated. And they started understanding the concept of someone making a mistake within our family. And lo and behold, I tell you, the last 4 years. The last 3 years I was in the Zoo. We had 0 missed.
(30:35):
Nobody missed school, and everybody graduated, and I'm very proud of all the things I've done, a lot of players graduated. They went off. Some are policemen, some are accountants, some are chiropractors and so forth. And now they're they're good abiding citizens for our country.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:56):
It's amazing.
So so you talk about teaching. And
but most of all, you talk about caring like there's a lot of love like, can you?
Can you truly coach somebody or teach somebody? Do you think if you don't care about them.
Ted (31:13):
I personally don't. And I think if you, if you look at
championship organizations and and you you hear that word all the time, we just felt like a family.
But then you look at people who are trying to get there, or they say the same words, but they're not following through with the, with the, with the real concept of how to do it. So I just really I you know.
(31:40):
with my upbringing I just knew the way I was treated, and when I played with the with the Sioux greyhounds, and they left me behind twice like, How do you leave a player behind who's 17 years old, 18 years old, and you have to fend, and how to get to the rink. And they dropped me off. We stopped one time to get some snacks, and I was the last person in line.
(32:04):
Me and another player, and the bus took off and left us there. How do you do that to someone.
and the one player, the player I was with. He hitchhiked back home, he said. Screw those guys and I jumped on the other side of the road, and I thumbed the way to the game.
and a truck driver pulled over, picked me up, and he drove me right to the arena, and I got to the arena quicker than the bus did.
(32:30):
But how do you do that? So I just took all those feelings that I had as a player. Jeez, I wish I would have enjoyed my my time much more, and it's such an easy thing to do is just appreciate the person that you have, and I'm not saying they're going to score you 20 more goals. It's just, but they're going to compete a little bit harder for you.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:52):
So what about the person? And I'm sure you've had the instance where
you've had a player. Come onto your team. You've got a family. That's your approach.
For whatever reason they're hurting, they're not themselves, they don't.
They don't know how to be a part of a family, and maybe they're destructive in that environment.
How do you help that person.
Ted (33:13):
Well, yeah, it's a little bit harder, and you have to have patience. I mean, everybody's not the same. And I had. I had a player in junior hockey and turn around. And but we're talking about a turtle. Something happened in a hockey game, so I started giving it to the line, and he turned around. He said, F. You you stinking Oahu.
I mean, I am the head coach.
(33:36):
and I'm sitting down. And a young 1819 year old kid turns around tells me to F. You and you stink in Wahoo and get a welfare check. Go home. And you know those type of things, and I'm sitting right there, and I got the whole team in front of me. And I'm going, how do you? How do you react? And so I didn't say anything to him at that particular time. We finished off the game, and the next next morning we had a discussion.
(34:05):
and I said, You can't say those type of things. I mean, if you go to work and you say something about your boss because he's he's of different color than you are. Guess what you can get your ass fired.
You go to school and you say something there. Guess what? They're going to kick you out.
We're playing a hockey game. Hopefully, you learn a lesson. You just can't, can't do it. I don't appreciate what you said, and I talked to the team about what he said, and we had no more incidences. And then I'm coaching the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League and all the fans are doing the tomahawk chop behind the bench, and they start doing the war cry, and that was one of the most
(34:47):
humiliating situations ever had my entire life. But then I look at it, and I always kind of grab your
your your soul from your body, and see if you're sitting here watching this. What would you do in that in that situation, and I'm going. Easiest thing for me to do was was respond and grab my stick and start slashing. But then I had a whole bunch of people, a bunch of players looking
(35:13):
to me as their leader. And how do you? How do you react? And so I just kind of blocked it out and continued, and they can make their own assumptions of what they would have done in that situation. But it's a i think we're all life lessons as we go, and if you break it down hockey and and baseball or football, it really is just a sport. Unfortunately, when you get pro.
(35:37):
there's a lot of money attached to it, and and people do crazy things in order to try to win. But if you just really keep the concept of getting good athletes and doing the right thing more often the opposition. Guess what your chances of winning. We went to 3 straight memorial cups, and we didn't go to memorial cups by accident. We worked on it every every time.
(36:02):
and I still remember we I called time out at the Memorial Cup final. We're winning 2, 1 against Peterborough for the for the Memorial Cup, and I called time out. They had an extra attacker. They were putting pressure on us, and they called Timeout.
and I brought all the players to the bench. I said, look at the crowd!
Look how excited they are.
(36:24):
because in 1 min and 30 seconds. We're going to become national champions. I didn't talk to them about protecting the lead, and their hands get really tight, and they started thinking about what they had to do, because we did it 101 times already. We did that already. The only thing we had to do is for another minute, 30, and and sure enough, we're very fortunate to win the cup.
Govindh Jayaraman (36:49):
Just the to me, the the presence of mind. This idea of
taking your soul's view of the situation gives you this ability to to
1st of all, maybe assess the situation from a different perspective, but also bring all of who you are to that moment and appreciate that moment like that just giving your players the gift to
(37:13):
to recognize how special that moment was with a minute and a half left in the game.
That's powerful. That's a real gift.
Have you been able to to use that in other parts of your life? I mean, look coaching. You've you've
you've also seen your 2 sons play in in the nhl, and they've become players, and your youngest Jordan won Stanley cups
(37:40):
was that part of being a father like? Were you able to apply that there in teaching them. Now.
I know also, you play a great role as a mentor to indigenous communities across
across North America. Speaking frequently is is that is, that something that you're able to
continue to use in different ways.
Ted (38:01):
Yeah, cause I I maybe because I had such a different upbringing. And I appreciate I appreciate the the food more so than anything we. We do a lot of a lot of work with the with the food banks and and donations. And and what have you
(38:21):
And I just I just grew up with with not so many means. I didn't have a car to get to the practice. I didn't have the the proper equipment to play, and the easiest thing for me to do was was complain with the things I haven't got.
I mean, it's it's unfortunate it didn't happen, but I was lucky enough that I was able to hitchhike once in a while, and and hitchhike to the game and get to the game, and and when I hitchhike to got to a game and someone drove me the day before because I couldn't get to practice, and we only had one, I couldn't get to practice because we didn't have a car, and I get to the game, and the coach sat me out
(39:06):
because I missed practice, and I still remember my dad. We walked. He was he was fuming, and so, anyway, she grabbed him. He said, that's it. You're not playing there no more.
and and I walked out, and I said, I want to play. And he said, No, you're not playing there anymore. And and I just at that point it just kind of
(39:30):
dawned on me that if somebody misses something that something happened in their life that maybe
stop them from, so we're too quick to judge. We blame someone for Turnover. We blame someone for a mistake. But maybe the night before he had some bad news in his family. But if you don't know that you're going to assume. So I tried to get the assume assuming out of me and finding out. So I met with our players quite a bit and talked to them about life
(40:01):
because you look at hockey or any sport before you blink an eyeball it's over.
so you might as well enjoy what you're doing, and hopefully save enough money to help you with your next career, because we all have to have one, and not to get into the unrealistic part that the rest of your life is going to be like that because it's not. The autographs are going to stop. People are going to stop asking for that. They're going to stop asking to come to events, and things are going to stop. What are you going to do? And who are you?
(40:36):
So those things I was because I was. I got hurt back entry, and I went back home, and I had no education outside of high school. I didn't know what I was going to do. I had no trade, so I went back to school, and nobody from the hockey organizations called me and say, hey, Ted, we got a wonderful opportunity, and even right now there's nothing there, so I'm not asking for it. But you have to make your own way.
Govindh Jayaraman (41:04):
Amazing. And you and you're doing amazing work with 3 Nolans, your foundation to pay that forward to other communities. Right?
Ted (41:12):
No, no question. I mean, if there's anything I'm proud of more so than anything is the work that we've been able to do with my 2 boys and Brandon, my oldest one. He used to come to hockey schools with me when I had him in 1st Nation communities, and then, when I had my family I kind of stopped doing as much as I did, because I wanted to be a dad more
(41:37):
so then, traveling in wintertime and traveling in the summertime. So we stopped them, and then he came home one day and he said, Dad, what do you think about starting up the hockey schools again.
and then this time we'll use all 3 of us, Jordan. He won, you know, as part of 3 standing cup teams, myself and yourself. We all played. We talked to the kids about schooling, and then substance abuses. And what have you? So we've been doing it now for 5, 10 years, or whatever. I'm not sure exactly how long we've been doing it. But it's been just wonderful. We've been going to
(42:12):
to events we bring in. Sometimes we're lucky enough to get sponsors. We bring in computers. But the whole trick of the hockey school is not. It's the same thing as coaching junior. Everybody's not going to play pro, and everybody's not going to leave the community to play sports, but they could certainly leave for education.
So we talk about the importance of schooling and and carpentry and woodworking, and mechanics and police officers and doctors, and and what have you? So we've been? We've been doing that for for a long time combined with.
(42:47):
I forgot to mention, but my mother was killed by a drunk driver when I was only 2021 years of age.
and it took me a long, long time to even talk about, or even think about or discuss it. And in 96, I think 97
(43:11):
After I was going through some some very, very hard times after I got let go by the buffalo sabres, I started talking to my wife, and going through some therapy, and what have you? And and so on. As we came about, the concept said, Let's start a foundation. And we could raise money for 1st nation women across the country.
(43:32):
and we started off in Ontario. Then we branched off, and I'm proud to say we raised close to 2 to 3 million dollars for 1st Nation Women's Education Fund. So anyways, long story short, through this hockey stuff, it's not so much the hockey. It's a dream of of
(43:52):
whatever you want to do in life, you can, but you got to make sure you do the right things. You can go there and work for for 2 months, and it gets tough. And so it's not for me. You got to fight through those muddy waters a little bit and give yourself a little time, and like when I was in Kenora, boy. Oh, boy, I did. I never wanted to stay there. I didn't like it. I despised it, but if I, if I wouldn't have
(44:19):
wouldn't have stayed. We certainly wouldn't be having this talk, and I certainly wouldn't be able to do the things I did in life. If I quit.
Govindh Jayaraman (44:29):
I think that idea of learning to win with what you've got.
The emphasis on learning is so important, and it's so
such a big part of your story such a gift
to have sat down with you here today, Ted. I'm so grateful
that you shared this story with me
(44:50):
at the end of every paper napkin wisdom episode this season we've been doing a shout out based on this idea of what you appreciate in the world appreciates and value. So with that in mind, is there someone you'd like to shout out, Ted.
Ted (45:02):
Oh, man, I had a whole bunch of a whole bunch of people, but probably the biggest thing. And like I said, when you read the book. You'll understand a little bit more. When I went away to Kenora. It was such a traumatic experience for me. I didn't want to leave again.
Sioux greyhounds were right there. Then, all of a sudden I didn't know about the Nhl draft. They drafted me and put me in training camp asked me to go to Kansas City, Missouri.
(45:31):
Yeah, which was a long, long ways from home, and I went and I caught the bus and I went back home, I said, I'm going to become a police officer. I don't want to be away from from home, and and I was dating a young girl at the time she was only 17, and we started talking. I said, Will you come with me
(45:52):
if I go back? And then she came. She was 17 years old that I was 1920, just turning 20, and we lived together for a little. Then we got married. We've been married now for 45 years, and we have 2 wonderful boys, and we got 5 grandchildren. But if she didn't come
(46:12):
as much as I said I did this, or I wanted to do that. I would never been able to do it, because there's no way I would have, because I was too traumatized in order to try again, but because of her, she said, Oh, it won't be that bad! And then she helped with the banking finding of the house, and so forth. So
(46:36):
you know, even even concept of hockey sometimes. But if it wasn't for my wife, Sandra, we wouldn't have this conversation.
Govindh Jayaraman (46:45):
Well, so you're chatting with Sandra, and
it sounds like a beautiful partnership. And again, thank you for joining me.
Ted (46:55):
Thank you very much.
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