April 29, 2025 • 36 mins
In Episode 238 of Paper Napkin Wisdom, we sit down with James Kaveney, founder of Unlimited Heart, a transformative platform rooted in helping people lead with courage, connection, and clarity. James is a speaker, coach, and facilitator who draws deeply from personal experience, emotional intelligence, and heart-centered living to guide individuals and leaders toward lives of greater purpose and peace.
He’s someone who doesn’t just speak about resilience—he lives it. Through the course of his journey, James has faced down some of life’s hardest challenges and turned them into tools for impact. His Paper Napkin captures this transformational spirit in a handwritten truth that hits with soul-deep simplicity:
“Challenges are teachers. Your greatest challenges are your greatest teachers. Transform pain into purpose — seize the day, and embrace the truth of your mortality. An unlimited heart fuels a life well-lived.”
In the conversation, James opens up about what it means to truly live with an "unlimited heart." That doesn’t mean ignoring pain or putting on a mask of positivity—it means leaning into the discomfort, extracting the lesson, and choosing purpose over paralysis.
When Pain Becomes Purpose
At the core of James’ message is the idea that pain isn’t something to run from, it’s something to listen to. “I spent a long time thinking my pain disqualified me,” he shares. “But it turns out it was the portal. Once I stopped trying to numb it and started trying to understand it, that’s when things shifted.”
He walks us through a pivotal moment in his life when things fell apart—and how, instead of running from it, he asked a better question: “What is this trying to teach me?” That question reframed his reality and unlocked a new path forward.
A Philosophy for Mortality and Meaning
James doesn’t shy away from the hard truths. In fact, he suggests that acknowledging our mortality is one of the most powerful steps we can take toward living fully. “When we live like we have forever, we wait. But when we remember we don’t, we act.”
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Episode Transcript
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Govindh Jayaraman (00:02):
Jim Caveney. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to be sitting with you here today.
Jim Kaveney (00:07):
Excited to be with you, Govin. Thank you for the time.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
Yeah, well, you shared a really great napkin, and it says, challenges are teachers. Your greatest challenges are your greatest teachers. Transform your pain into purpose, seize the day, and embrace the truth of your mortality. An unlimited heart fuels a life well lived, and you've underlined well lived. Why did you share that with me?
Jim Kaveney (00:34):
Well, I shared it with you, because it's it's fundamentally what I obviously believe in. It's what I have experienced in the last. Let's call it 50 years of my 51 years, almost 51 years of life in existence.
And it's just it's something in which
you know, I think, as I, as I grew up, going through some challenges in life with anxiety, I never knew exactly what some of those challenges were, why, I was going through what I was going through.
(01:00):
and they didn't really teach me anything until I was probably 38, and diagnosed with my with my diagnosis of atrial fibrillation, and when I realized, as I looked in rears, I was like holy cow. Those those challenges is what prepared me to be ready for this. And so the lessons were learned. As I was getting ready to take on my next challenge.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:21):
Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Right? You talked about how 51 years of experience prepared you for, let's say, a bigger, more acute challenge that occurred at your 38.th
So let's but were you always.
were you aware, prior to your your health scare at 38,
(01:43):
that you were learning these from these challenges, or did that become apparent later?
Jim Kaveney (01:48):
No, it absolutely came apparent later, and I think you know I love to steal Steve Jobs's quote right, you know. When he gave his Commencement speech, he had said, you know we don't. We don't really connect the dots moving forward. We only connect the dots when we look in rears, and so it wasn't until I
honestly sat down, wrote my book, and started putting the pieces and parts together, and thought to myself, Holy cow! Like everything that I went through those dots and in between those dots obviously, is the messiness of life.
(02:20):
That's when I. When I looked at this, I said, Holy cow. All of that stuff prepared me made me a stronger man to get through those challenges, and I don't know hopefully, I don't have any other challenges in my life at this point. But I'm sure something else will come around. But that's really when I recognize, like all of that was for for preparation
and success comes when people are prepared. And I guess maybe I didn't know what I was doing and how I was responding or reacting to those instances, but it definitely must have made me stronger.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:51):
Yeah. And and so 38 years old
is young to have anything wrong with your heart that must have been pretty scary, and atrial fibrillation is a big deal.
What happened.
Jim Kaveney (03:05):
Yeah. So for me, right, it goes back to actually, even before I was 38, I had some instances when I was in college. I was a college rower. So I was on the rowing team for 4 years. Aggressive training.
You know, when we we found now now they they found that individuals that are in extreme sports, extreme elevated.
(03:26):
you know, high intensity training. Actually, you're starting to show that younger people are having a larger propensity of Afib. Now.
it's because they're actually transforming their hearts into into that the heart wants. It's a muscle, right? So it wants to continue to perform at that level, but we know physically we can't survive if it always wants to do that.
And so, when I had those instances in college, I ignored them rightfully. So I was 2021, and like what? What's wrong with me? And I joked at the time. I said maybe I had a beer or 2 before the night before practice, and so maybe I was dehydrated, you know.
(03:59):
but so ultimately I didn't. I didn't. I stepped out of rowing, and then my afib went away. I didn't know I was in afib. I knew I knew nothing of that when I was younger I just whatever. But then it wasn't until I was 38 and fully diagnosed with it.
That's when my my cardiologist said, Explain to me what your whole history was, and I told him I was, you know, a rower in college, and that's when he defined me. By the way, he defined me as an elite athlete. I never self, not self-defined by any means.
(04:24):
But he's like, you're an elite athlete, and we're seeing a higher propensity of that. And I'm like, Oh, that's crazy. Right. So that started to make me understand why, at the age of 38, I had this, and also at the age of 38, I was starting my 1st business.
So you know, I'm I'm thinking. My Afib probably was riding underneath the surface a little bit, and then in comes the stress of launching a brand new business and everything else. And then and then it was the diagnosis, weirded, sickly head.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:51):
So let's talk about navigating those 2 challenges. I mean.
I know something about running a business and starting a business. That's
that's a full time job. That's more than a full time job that takes up a lot of heart space and a lot of head space. And you had something going on.
How did you juggle the 2.
Jim Kaveney (05:10):
Yeah. So that's you know, in in my book I often I talk about the concepts of of tying in. You know, when my heart was weak, my mind was strong.
and when my mind was weak my heart was strong. And when we can get the 2 of those together, that's when I talk about the unlimited nature of a you know of a well lived life right? Because if you can align those 2 things.
(05:32):
then there's there's nothing that you can't accomplish. And so I found myself saying a couple of things like I knew my heart was weak, so I knew I knew my mind needed to be exceptionally strong. Right? And he needed. I needed to persist enough.
because, you know, for me, failure was not going to overtake me as long as my determination was was strong.
and that's where I was at, and you know, in my my purpose, for what I was doing was was great. I, you know. I thought at the time, but my good larger purpose was taking care of my wife and my 2 little boys I mean, we had just moved to New Hampshire.
(06:04):
My wife left her full time job to to ultimately raise the kids because a lot of our money was going to daycare. So we're like, all right, let's let's do this differently.
And then I and then I surprised her with like, Hey, I'm leaving my job, and I'm going to start a business right? So she's like great. We have no income, and we've got 2 small boys. What are we going to do? Right? And so I said, it'll be fine. And so for me. Then it's like with that diagnosis, like, all right, I need to really make this work because I'm not going back into the quote unquote the the real world. I was going to be the entrepreneur that I wanted to be.
(06:33):
And so we we set on that course. And again my! When my heart and my mind were both in sync and doing great. That's when the company was really exploding. My family life was exploding all those things.
and then it came crashing back down again, when my diagnosis took a took an ugly turn in 2018, and then I had to come back out out of that again on a different side of things.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:54):
So. So let's talk about how
you know the you, you and a lot of entrepreneurs do this right where where everything seems to be going.
There are challenges already. And let's add this other challenge.
And what motivate? What would? What made that the right time for you to jump forward and seize the day, and you know you seized the day you you transformed your pain into purpose right then. But why did that happen for you? Then? What? What do you think? The impetus was to start the business? Then.
Jim Kaveney (07:30):
Well for me even be even prior to the diagnosis. Right? So I was, let's just call. And I love the word that you used earlier, like, let's have this podcast so we can be curious about each other. And I've always I was always curious for many, many years. And so for me, and I was in healthcare life in life sciences, and I was a national trainer for multiple pharmaceutical and biotech companies.
(07:54):
and
I kept hearing from people say to me, and they were much. They had much more seniority than I did, and they kept saying to me.
The way you train classes is so much different than I've ever seen. You should start your own business, and that I kept hearing that for probably about a year or so.
and then, but underlying me. I also knew I always wanted to do my own thing. But the strange thing was, I wasn't looking at building my business around something that I was great at. I was looking at building something completely different, like I was a new father. So I was going to launch a cool hip diaper bag for dads.
(08:30):
And then somebody's like, why, why would you do that like you're great at training, build a business around training. And I'm like.
Oh, that makes sense. Right? Let's go with what you know, right? And so then I then that's when I said, All right enough of this. I've got to do it. I'm 38 years old if I don't do it now, I'm not going to do it ever, and so I'm like, I bit the bullet and jumped into it.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:49):
Yeah, there's never a perfect time. And I think that the a lot of people talk about you have to fall in love with something, but I almost wonder about whether or not you have to fall in hate with something you have to fall. You have to really see a problem that you can't look away from, and that you want to solve.
And part of that is being really good at the solution. Really seeing a solution very well, and it sounds like
(09:12):
that's how you came into your business right.
Jim Kaveney (09:14):
Exactly yeah, exactly how I did it. And and it wasn't because I'd like to think I'm a modest person. So I knew I was good at my job, but I never walked around with my chest puffed out like, Look at me! I'm the greatest trainer in the world.
but it was when these people that I highly respected, that had, you know, 1015 years on on top of my experience. And they're like, no, this is different. This is good, you should do it. And I'm like, all right, maybe there is something here. And so so that's what we did.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:40):
So, taking the challenge that you were facing from a health perspective, being in health care, right? And and training, did you did? Were you able
to leverage the learnings that you were experiencing.
going through your own health journey, your acute health journey
in your training later on did they complement each other.
Jim Kaveney (10:01):
They? They did, they complement each other exceptionally well. So what we, what we did was we, you know, we built learning materials for pharmaceutical biotech companies. So if there was a disease state would come across our desk.
we would write all the medical journals, modules, everything else for salespeople, medical professionals, everything. So we I had access to
tons and tons of resources. And so and I literally was just having this conversation with a nurse practitioner earlier today.
(10:26):
and I said to her, I said the challenge was for me, even though, and I wouldn't say I'm a healthcare provider. But even though I was in healthcare field. I was still so very ignorant like I wasn't taking into consideration what I was reading, because
I think I had that.
as I told her I had an invincibility complex like. I can do this myself, like I can read what they're telling me I should be doing, but I think I can. I know my body. I know what I can do.
(10:52):
And I I danced with that for a while.
and then it almost took me out right. And so that's why. Nowadays I'm like, listen, don't!
Don't think you're the smartest thing in in the room, even if you're if you know your own body. Listen to other people, listen to advice, and and do everything possible, because, you know, I probably could have killed myself if I if I if I pushed it a little bit too further, a little bit much further.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:16):
Yeah, well, and and this is the thing that I think is really interesting about your napkin. You say, embrace the truth of your mortality, and you know.
the 1st time I read the napkin, and even when I read it to you, because I always find reading the napkin to the person who gives it to me changes the dynamic of the words, but that sent shivers down my spine, embracing the truth of your own mortality. That's heavy, man, that's really heavy.
Jim Kaveney (11:45):
Yeah, it it can be right. It can be, or it could be absolutely freeing as well. Right? And I I look at it this way, right so. And I and and here's my moment, right? And so
it wasn't until 2018, in which again my invincibility complex probably got the best of me.
and, thank God, my my cardiologist called me up
(12:08):
right before Thanksgiving, here in the States, and said, Hey, I want to put a monitor on you just to see what you're doing. And I said, Well, I'm having some symptoms. I think maybe this is just me living with my afib.
and then I come back. I sent the Monitor away. I come back, and I see this guy, and now we're in in December, and you know it was, and I'll tell you the whole story because it's it's it was really a a defining moment for me, because
(12:31):
I live at. I live in southern New Hampshire, and Dartmouth Hospital is an hour and a half north of me in New Hampshire, northern New Hampshire, and my wife stayed down, didn't come with me to the doctor's appointment. She'd gone to every other appointment.
Shouldn't come with me because my my son had a dentist appointment, so we split up. I went my way. I woke up by the way, and an amazing workout it was a chest day, so I was all pumped up. I was ready to go. I was going into this cardiac, my cardiology meeting. I was going to take on the world.
(12:56):
and he comes around the corner and he's he's all ashen, and I don't know if you've ever seen anybody that is like bleach white because they're like this isn't good, and
he's like Mr. Caveney. We got to put a we got to put a pacemaker in you. You have tacky, Brady syndrome, and I'm like, what like, what is that? Right? And so I knew what it was, but I like, how do I have this?
And then he explained it to me, and ultimately what would had been happening for me. About 6 6 months prior to this
(13:20):
was, my heart was pausing about 30 to 40 times a month for 6 seconds.
and so what those 6 second pauses meant was, I was at the tacky. Brady, by the way, is the elevated heart rate the Brady is your heart's tired, so you're taking a break.
so I'd find myself passing out, you know, collapsing while driving, trying to build my business. All these things.
(13:44):
Long story short, pacemaker goes in. I think I'm on the better side of it, and then the next week we get to we get together. Now we're closer to Christmas. All I'm doing. I'm sitting on the couch with my kids. We're watching what was deemed as being a Christmas movie. But it was. It was actually venom by marvel and you know. And so my wife leaves the room, and I and all of a sudden I just feel my heart just start to take off, and I got up to 240 beats per minute.
(14:11):
and my pacemaker, I know what my pacemaker was for my pacemaker was there for the pauses, nothing for the elevation. And so here I think I am. This is it like I am racing until I can no longer race, and my heart completely crashes out.
Paramedics showed up my wife's pouring a bottle of aspirin down my throat, chew and swallow, chew and swallow like all this is happening right? So
(14:33):
this was my mortality moment, like, I literally think I'm dying at this point. Thankfully, I didn't.
came out of that.
And then I said, All right, what do I need to do differently in my life. Right? And this is where it was. You don't have the why, I guess. Why I'm saying this is you said it's heavy, or it could be freeing. And for me yes, it was heavy, right, but it was also very freeing, because I thought to myself.
(14:55):
If I'm not going to be here tomorrow.
I'm going to do everything within my power today to make the most of my day make the most today. Most most of other people's days, if I can right, whatever that capacity is.
And to me that's just liberating because then I can. I can just go do what I want to do. Not not, you know, unencumbered, you know, you know what I'm saying like, if something, if I want to go start another business, I'm gonna do it right. And that's that's what I'm doing now
(15:21):
is starting another business, because I'm transforming what I went through my pain into now, what my business is, which is unlimited heart health and wellness, which is specifically focusing on patients with afib. And again going to say I was smart, but I was so ignorant.
I can only imagine individuals that don't have access to the resources that I do.
(15:42):
what they're doing, how they're struggling, and that's what we're trying to do is is make an impact on their lives.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:47):
I think this is really important. I don't want to skip by this. You talked earlier on about the connection between your heart and your head, and that's when the magic happens. You talked about also
being well versed in medical journals and medical reading and the research. You know what Tachy Brady is, you know.
you know you've read the this.
(16:10):
You've read the research. You know what Afib is. You know
what these things are scientifically. Yet when the ashen doctor shows up and says, Mr. Caveney.
we're putting in a pacemaker.
All that stuff goes away.
Jim Kaveney (16:26):
Got it.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:27):
And it just is like, what are you talking about?
What does that mean? And and isn't that interesting that in those moments
the the connection goes away right? And and that's a scary thing, and probably not as scary as a 240 beats per minute. I mean, venom's an exciting movie, especially in watching with the boys. But man, not that exciting. So.
Jim Kaveney (16:51):
No.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:52):
So what?
What are the things that you've learned to do to embrace those challenges now
and and quiet, that so that you are keeping and maintaining that heart and head connection are, are there deliberate steps that you employ? What do you do?
Jim Kaveney (17:12):
Yeah, no. So so I'm I'm blessed right? So I haven't had an an afib event now in 6 years. Right? So I had a after all, of that stuff happened the following year in 2019 March of 2019 which we're actually now, we're in March of 2025. So
it was actually March 18th is when my I had my last cardiac ablation, when they went in and and walled off the electrical conduction that was causing the issues. So I've been free for 6 years. So it's a lot easier, right when when the symptoms aren't there anymore. But I'm still an afib patient. So for me
(17:45):
I do everything. Every every morning I wake up with a purpose of you know I'm not an act. I don't meditate, or any of those things, but I do work out, I do pray. I'm a faithful person, so I do all that stuff to kind of ground myself, loaded with gratitude, because again I experience those things, and I'm like Boy, tomorrow might not be here. So I better enjoy what I'm doing now.
and so that helps me to then reset my mind, and vice versa, right? And so so I. Everything I do now is very deliberate in making sure that I'm healthy because I want to survive for my wife. I want to survive for my kids, and and I always stick with that the strong mindset, because I think but I'm also. But I'm also not naive, right? And I want to be very clear with this.
(18:26):
because I think you know there, there's folks, and they all well, well intended, and well-meaning. When you go through crap in your life
people will come back to you and say
it's happening for you, not to you. And I'm like, Yeah, that doesn't feel good like, not right now, I'm not ready for that right? And so I state that because I am not perfect by any means. And so I have this, and I don't know if you ever heard the phrase. It's not mine, but I stole it, but it's embrace the suck.
(18:53):
And I I've heard that phrase, and I like it's been used in so many different ways. But that is so true. It's like, all right
this sucks.
I'm going to sit back and wallow in kind of my self. Pity of like woe is me! What's wrong with me?
And there's the 2 choices.
I could either say, All right.
Now, I'm going to embrace what I what's going through, and I need to make changes in my life, to to be stronger, or I could go down the hole and just say, Nope, what was me like? My life is over, and guess what? Most likely my life would have been over. But I said, No, I'm here for a reason. What is my purpose? And it's a lot easier to look and reflect and say, Hey.
(19:29):
I went through all that stuff, and it was being done for me.
And now here's my purpose to go out and help people right? So that's how I that's how I balance those 2 things is just simultaneously, but but also understanding that there's days in which
which is good and bad days like some days, are just bad.
And so one of the things I try to, you know, when we talk about the carpe, DM. And seizing the day
(19:52):
is at the end of the day, you know, if you didn't do whatever you were supposed to do that day, just forgive yourself, you know, and just. And this simple process of saying.
Okay, I missed out on that. But what did I do? What did I do? That moves whatever forward
and know that hopefully. God willing, if I wake up the next morning.
land on my knees and gratitude that I'm alive for another day to do it all over again, and that's that's kind of how I line.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:19):
Powerful. I you know I heard you say you're blessed, and and I know you feel that I know you believe that.
And you're doing things.
You're you're you're you're
deliberate and intentional about a lot of things that keep you in a blessed space in an intentional place. You're you're I think you're you're really humble in saying oh, I don't meditate, but I work out.
(20:45):
I pray. I experience gratitude like I really do gratitude every single day. I think these are
pathways to meditation, right? And and and making sure that you feel those things.
The the tagline to your book is how to transform pain to purpose. And you've really done that.
(21:07):
How do you help people so? Yes, a lot of people say, this is happening for you and not to you, and you're right to say that sometimes it's like right now not a good time. Don't bring me great. Take your rainbows and lollipops for a second. I'll be back to you. But I need this
when you're working with people who are learning to balance these things, and you've got 3 pillars that you talk about in your book.
(21:34):
Holistic work, faith, health, faith, family life and balance. Right? So this this whole piece that you're that you're working on. Where do you start when you're when you're working with somebody, because right now somebody's listening.
they're an entrepreneur. They're they're in pain
in their in their work. Maybe they're in pain in their health.
Maybe they're struggling.
(21:54):
What's the 1st thing that you do.
Jim Kaveney (21:58):
Yeah, usually, usually, what I do with those folks is just I want to. I want to hear their story right? Because I know from my own experience when I wrote my book, how cathartic it was
for me to write my story, and I again, you know, just being fully transparent. I mean, there were moments in which.
you know, I wrote my book at 5 o'clock every morning. You know I did. I don't. You know. 1,500 words, 2,000 words a day. That was the the mantra that I was doing, but I would sit at 5 o'clock, sometimes 6 o'clock in the morning, and I just I would bend over my my laptop, and I'd be in tears
(22:28):
because it was suppressed, you know. You know, as often I grew up Irish, Catholic, right? And so with being Irish Catholic. Sometimes we learn to just push everything down right. And so it came out, all on the pages, and I'm like holy cow. This is so cathartic, so
so when I talk to folks I have them tell my my, tell me what their story is, and then I want them to kind of start to write down a few of those things so they can get it out, and so they can start to open and realize like, okay, yes, this is painful. I'm going through whatever X is in my life.
(23:01):
because then I want them to understand it.
and then I also want them to say, Well, how do I then go back.
revisit what I'm going through right now.
and and realign myself, you know to to really have
a restart in in what those challenges are.
and I don't want to be naive. Obviously, I mean, if they're entrepreneurs like you and I have done and struggled right.
(23:25):
and I and I don't take lightly what I shared with you earlier, too, around.
You know your determination has to
really be stronger than the the concern for failure.
And that's that's when I think success happens with entrepreneurs. And so I tell people, if you need to go back and revisit and retool what it is, do it
(23:45):
but stay committed to where your goal is. Because it's those people that go through and resist the the will to quit that will ultimately survive. You'll come out on the other end, and then
I'll I'll This is a prime example. Again. Using my my experience.
I mean, we started our business, and I think
over 18 months. We grossed $13,000.
(24:08):
I mean, I'm trying to raise a family, and we had $13,000 right coming in. And that was gross, right? So I don't think we paid taxes on that because it wasn't enough. The government laughed at that one.
But I say that because
you know, my wife and I then had a proverbial come to Jesus meeting like, Hey, we like like, we're we're going down here like you need to go get a real job. And literally a week and a half later I get a phone call right before Christmas, and somebody's like, Hey, can you meet me? January 3rd in New Jersey?
(24:37):
I heard you're really good at X. Can you do this
game on like, I'm like, I'm like, Lisa, we are. We're good. This is gonna take off.
And it was because we just stayed persistent and committed to where we were going that we ultimately broke through.
And so I I say that because you need a support network, and you know, the whole point of that story was, my wife was there. She supported me through thick and thin good times, bad times, but then I also had support networks outside of my family that were egging me on like, Keep going, keep pushing right.
(25:08):
The other aspect, too, is, my motivations were, and clearly you do a lot of reading in your life, and I do a lot, too. And
I just I recommend to individuals. If you haven't started reading, start to read other people's stories, because when you frame it out, and it's not a oh, their problem is worse than mine. So I'm going to be okay. No, it's just to say there are other people that go through the same crap, maybe worse, maybe less worse than you.
(25:34):
But they persist, and they find ways to revisit. And that's that's where the strength comes right.
And I think your podcast the other day with a young lady on there, you know, I think it was around. It's you know successes when you learn how to
resist resist the those those challenges that are coming coming your way so long, long waited answer to your short question. So Paul.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:54):
No, no super, super, awesome answer. So one of the things that I think that you read really did. And you said at the beginning of it. I want to go back to it because it's super important.
You said that you suffered from anxiety as a child, right, that you were an anxious child, and and hunched over
your laptop as your pulling.
(26:16):
pulling the words out of your story, getting a thousand 1,500 words down every single day at 5 o'clock in the morning. I say often, and there are so many things about this, but
the way to get the loop out of your head is to write it down. The way to get it out of your head and into the world is to write it down, and then you can start to notice
(26:40):
the nuance. You can notice the strength in your. I think that when it lives up here in our heads only what ends up happening is, we only see one side of it. It's not 3 dimensional, it's not life. Life is much more textured than that. And the moment we loop that take that loop and extend it down to a piece of paper.
or in any way, shape or form. All of a sudden we can notice the strength, the resilience and the patterns that are actually leading us forward as opposed to moving us back right? Did you not see that.
Jim Kaveney (27:14):
Oh, my gosh! Without without question and to your point. It's it's you know. It's it's it's it's like when people talk like news and everything else, and all the different crap that's going on in the world nowadays. It's like, Oh, you, you get a snippet of things right? And I think to your point, that's the we have those little snippets in our mind.
But when you read the whole, when you put everything in context, that's where you see the strength. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. And that's exactly the way I felt.
(27:42):
Now, I'm not a huge journaler, which which my editor was funny. She's like, Yeah, you don't, journal. But you just wrote a you know. You just wrote 95,000 words, you know. So you kind of, do you just waited, you know, 40, some years to do it. But
so that's that's 1 of the key components that we're striving to do, too. With with my editor exactly
is to help people get those those things out on paper in some way, shape or form, because that's when they come to life.
(28:09):
And that's when you start to see your strength. That's when you see your dots. As we were talking about with Steve Jobs and all those things and then it. And then you start to think
I'm better than I thought I was right. And okay, I can do this.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:22):
Something you said really quickly. And I think it's really cool that we're landing here is that headlines right? The headlines, the snippets that we see exist in our mind, right? The headlines, and they're always negative. They're always
not always. But they're often negative unless we're putting positive headlines in there. It's it's the headlines. If it bleeds, it leads, it's up there and the headlines in our mind. But we have to read the story. We have to write the story, we have to put it down. And and I think it's such a really
(28:55):
great idea. Embracing the suck is something really cool. Todd Palmer, the author of from suck to success was on our Podcast as well on paper, napkin wisdom. He's a great friend of the show. So I totally love that
an unlimited heart fuels a life well lived
(29:15):
for you, that's full of purpose, right?
Jim Kaveney (29:18):
100%.
That's amazing percent.
Yeah. My wife, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:24):
No no no go ahead.
Jim Kaveney (29:25):
No, it's you know. So from an entrepreneurial perspective, too, I'll I'll put this in context. So
when I had my events in 28, late 2820 19
just so happenstance. Then all of a sudden, other companies started getting interested interested in the business. And, by the way. My wife was my business partner eventually, you know. So she came in. And so
(29:47):
that's another book I need to write about how working with your spouse can be good or bad. But
But then, you know, other companies started coming to us, wanting interested in in acquiring us, and we so we ultimately sold our business in 2020
and
and we sold the business. And and I think you know, you were saying this in one of your other podcasts, too, is like you, do you do these events? And then you think that something great is going to happen. And you're going to feel amazing when it happens. But when I sold my business, people were looking at me. They're like.
(30:15):
aren't you sad? You don't even seem like overly ecstatic like what and to me. I just said I knew it was going to happen like, because I wanted it so much to happen. Not like that was my sole goal. My sole goal was, I needed to build something so beautiful
that somebody else outside of my organization would say, I want that. And then you validated what I just did, and so I felt great. I felt the validation.
(30:40):
but when that happened I went to work for the company that ultimately acquired us, and I was there as a part of an employment agreement. For 3 years
I did my job, did my job exceptionally, exceptionally well, but my wife noticed. She's like.
I can tell you're not that happy?
And I said, How's that? She's like, because you are a purpose filled person, and you served your purpose already. You built a great business. You sold it.
And now you're building a business for somebody else. And I'm like, Yeah, it's still my purpose. She's like, yeah, but no, you need more. I know you need more. And then when I told her my vision vision was like, Hey, after my 3 year employment agreement. I'm gonna go write a book and start a new business. And she she literally we're over eating dinner together. And she and I looked up from my plate, and I see her, and tears are running down her face, and she's like I'm so happy she goes, that is, you go do it right. And
(31:22):
so I got our blessing. So here I'm doing it again. But but yeah, purpose is so important to me, and that's why I love to talk about it.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:30):
Yeah, I think I think that's a great place to land, Jim. We do this thing this season in honor of the late John Ruland, who passed away suddenly. He was a great friend of the show. He gave us a napkin more than 10 years ago. That says what you appreciate appreciates, and we end every show this season with gratitude.
Is there somebody that you'd like to shout out and give some appreciation to.
Jim Kaveney (31:54):
Oh, I mean, it's 1st and foremost, it's got to be my wife. My partner in life.
In so many different ways. It's it's funny because she is the
she's like you are the big thinker. And I'm the big doer. So she's an operation specialist. By the way, so she's actually still working for the organization that we were acquired by and she's running operations for the whole place. And so so if if my dreams couldn't become a reality if it wasn't for her operational expertise. So she's in so many ways. Just been an absolute blessing to me in my life.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:27):
That's wonderful. Thank you, Jim.
Jim Kaveney (32:29):
Thank you! God!
Jim Caveney. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to be sitting with you here today.
Jim Kaveney (00:07):
Excited to be with you, Govin. Thank you for the time.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
Yeah, well, you shared a really great napkin, and it says, challenges are teachers. Your greatest challenges are your greatest teachers. Transform your pain into purpose, seize the day, and embrace the truth of your mortality. An unlimited heart fuels a life well lived, and you've underlined well lived. Why did you share that with me?
Jim Kaveney (00:34):
Well, I shared it with you, because it's it's fundamentally what I obviously believe in. It's what I have experienced in the last. Let's call it 50 years of my 51 years, almost 51 years of life in existence.
And it's just it's something in which
you know, I think, as I, as I grew up, going through some challenges in life with anxiety, I never knew exactly what some of those challenges were, why, I was going through what I was going through.
(01:00):
and they didn't really teach me anything until I was probably 38, and diagnosed with my with my diagnosis of atrial fibrillation, and when I realized, as I looked in rears, I was like holy cow. Those those challenges is what prepared me to be ready for this. And so the lessons were learned. As I was getting ready to take on my next challenge.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:21):
Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Right? You talked about how 51 years of experience prepared you for, let's say, a bigger, more acute challenge that occurred at your 38.th
So let's but were you always.
were you aware, prior to your your health scare at 38,
(01:43):
that you were learning these from these challenges, or did that become apparent later?
Jim Kaveney (01:48):
No, it absolutely came apparent later, and I think you know I love to steal Steve Jobs's quote right, you know. When he gave his Commencement speech, he had said, you know we don't. We don't really connect the dots moving forward. We only connect the dots when we look in rears, and so it wasn't until I
honestly sat down, wrote my book, and started putting the pieces and parts together, and thought to myself, Holy cow! Like everything that I went through those dots and in between those dots obviously, is the messiness of life.
(02:20):
That's when I. When I looked at this, I said, Holy cow. All of that stuff prepared me made me a stronger man to get through those challenges, and I don't know hopefully, I don't have any other challenges in my life at this point. But I'm sure something else will come around. But that's really when I recognize, like all of that was for for preparation
and success comes when people are prepared. And I guess maybe I didn't know what I was doing and how I was responding or reacting to those instances, but it definitely must have made me stronger.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:51):
Yeah. And and so 38 years old
is young to have anything wrong with your heart that must have been pretty scary, and atrial fibrillation is a big deal.
What happened.
Jim Kaveney (03:05):
Yeah. So for me, right, it goes back to actually, even before I was 38, I had some instances when I was in college. I was a college rower. So I was on the rowing team for 4 years. Aggressive training.
You know, when we we found now now they they found that individuals that are in extreme sports, extreme elevated.
(03:26):
you know, high intensity training. Actually, you're starting to show that younger people are having a larger propensity of Afib. Now.
it's because they're actually transforming their hearts into into that the heart wants. It's a muscle, right? So it wants to continue to perform at that level, but we know physically we can't survive if it always wants to do that.
And so, when I had those instances in college, I ignored them rightfully. So I was 2021, and like what? What's wrong with me? And I joked at the time. I said maybe I had a beer or 2 before the night before practice, and so maybe I was dehydrated, you know.
(03:59):
but so ultimately I didn't. I didn't. I stepped out of rowing, and then my afib went away. I didn't know I was in afib. I knew I knew nothing of that when I was younger I just whatever. But then it wasn't until I was 38 and fully diagnosed with it.
That's when my my cardiologist said, Explain to me what your whole history was, and I told him I was, you know, a rower in college, and that's when he defined me. By the way, he defined me as an elite athlete. I never self, not self-defined by any means.
(04:24):
But he's like, you're an elite athlete, and we're seeing a higher propensity of that. And I'm like, Oh, that's crazy. Right. So that started to make me understand why, at the age of 38, I had this, and also at the age of 38, I was starting my 1st business.
So you know, I'm I'm thinking. My Afib probably was riding underneath the surface a little bit, and then in comes the stress of launching a brand new business and everything else. And then and then it was the diagnosis, weirded, sickly head.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:51):
So let's talk about navigating those 2 challenges. I mean.
I know something about running a business and starting a business. That's
that's a full time job. That's more than a full time job that takes up a lot of heart space and a lot of head space. And you had something going on.
How did you juggle the 2.
Jim Kaveney (05:10):
Yeah. So that's you know, in in my book I often I talk about the concepts of of tying in. You know, when my heart was weak, my mind was strong.
and when my mind was weak my heart was strong. And when we can get the 2 of those together, that's when I talk about the unlimited nature of a you know of a well lived life right? Because if you can align those 2 things.
(05:32):
then there's there's nothing that you can't accomplish. And so I found myself saying a couple of things like I knew my heart was weak, so I knew I knew my mind needed to be exceptionally strong. Right? And he needed. I needed to persist enough.
because, you know, for me, failure was not going to overtake me as long as my determination was was strong.
and that's where I was at, and you know, in my my purpose, for what I was doing was was great. I, you know. I thought at the time, but my good larger purpose was taking care of my wife and my 2 little boys I mean, we had just moved to New Hampshire.
(06:04):
My wife left her full time job to to ultimately raise the kids because a lot of our money was going to daycare. So we're like, all right, let's let's do this differently.
And then I and then I surprised her with like, Hey, I'm leaving my job, and I'm going to start a business right? So she's like great. We have no income, and we've got 2 small boys. What are we going to do? Right? And so I said, it'll be fine. And so for me. Then it's like with that diagnosis, like, all right, I need to really make this work because I'm not going back into the quote unquote the the real world. I was going to be the entrepreneur that I wanted to be.
(06:33):
And so we we set on that course. And again my! When my heart and my mind were both in sync and doing great. That's when the company was really exploding. My family life was exploding all those things.
and then it came crashing back down again, when my diagnosis took a took an ugly turn in 2018, and then I had to come back out out of that again on a different side of things.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:54):
So. So let's talk about how
you know the you, you and a lot of entrepreneurs do this right where where everything seems to be going.
There are challenges already. And let's add this other challenge.
And what motivate? What would? What made that the right time for you to jump forward and seize the day, and you know you seized the day you you transformed your pain into purpose right then. But why did that happen for you? Then? What? What do you think? The impetus was to start the business? Then.
Jim Kaveney (07:30):
Well for me even be even prior to the diagnosis. Right? So I was, let's just call. And I love the word that you used earlier, like, let's have this podcast so we can be curious about each other. And I've always I was always curious for many, many years. And so for me, and I was in healthcare life in life sciences, and I was a national trainer for multiple pharmaceutical and biotech companies.
(07:54):
and
I kept hearing from people say to me, and they were much. They had much more seniority than I did, and they kept saying to me.
The way you train classes is so much different than I've ever seen. You should start your own business, and that I kept hearing that for probably about a year or so.
and then, but underlying me. I also knew I always wanted to do my own thing. But the strange thing was, I wasn't looking at building my business around something that I was great at. I was looking at building something completely different, like I was a new father. So I was going to launch a cool hip diaper bag for dads.
(08:30):
And then somebody's like, why, why would you do that like you're great at training, build a business around training. And I'm like.
Oh, that makes sense. Right? Let's go with what you know, right? And so then I then that's when I said, All right enough of this. I've got to do it. I'm 38 years old if I don't do it now, I'm not going to do it ever, and so I'm like, I bit the bullet and jumped into it.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:49):
Yeah, there's never a perfect time. And I think that the a lot of people talk about you have to fall in love with something, but I almost wonder about whether or not you have to fall in hate with something you have to fall. You have to really see a problem that you can't look away from, and that you want to solve.
And part of that is being really good at the solution. Really seeing a solution very well, and it sounds like
(09:12):
that's how you came into your business right.
Jim Kaveney (09:14):
Exactly yeah, exactly how I did it. And and it wasn't because I'd like to think I'm a modest person. So I knew I was good at my job, but I never walked around with my chest puffed out like, Look at me! I'm the greatest trainer in the world.
but it was when these people that I highly respected, that had, you know, 1015 years on on top of my experience. And they're like, no, this is different. This is good, you should do it. And I'm like, all right, maybe there is something here. And so so that's what we did.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:40):
So, taking the challenge that you were facing from a health perspective, being in health care, right? And and training, did you did? Were you able
to leverage the learnings that you were experiencing.
going through your own health journey, your acute health journey
in your training later on did they complement each other.
Jim Kaveney (10:01):
They? They did, they complement each other exceptionally well. So what we, what we did was we, you know, we built learning materials for pharmaceutical biotech companies. So if there was a disease state would come across our desk.
we would write all the medical journals, modules, everything else for salespeople, medical professionals, everything. So we I had access to
tons and tons of resources. And so and I literally was just having this conversation with a nurse practitioner earlier today.
(10:26):
and I said to her, I said the challenge was for me, even though, and I wouldn't say I'm a healthcare provider. But even though I was in healthcare field. I was still so very ignorant like I wasn't taking into consideration what I was reading, because
I think I had that.
as I told her I had an invincibility complex like. I can do this myself, like I can read what they're telling me I should be doing, but I think I can. I know my body. I know what I can do.
(10:52):
And I I danced with that for a while.
and then it almost took me out right. And so that's why. Nowadays I'm like, listen, don't!
Don't think you're the smartest thing in in the room, even if you're if you know your own body. Listen to other people, listen to advice, and and do everything possible, because, you know, I probably could have killed myself if I if I if I pushed it a little bit too further, a little bit much further.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:16):
Yeah, well, and and this is the thing that I think is really interesting about your napkin. You say, embrace the truth of your mortality, and you know.
the 1st time I read the napkin, and even when I read it to you, because I always find reading the napkin to the person who gives it to me changes the dynamic of the words, but that sent shivers down my spine, embracing the truth of your own mortality. That's heavy, man, that's really heavy.
Jim Kaveney (11:45):
Yeah, it it can be right. It can be, or it could be absolutely freeing as well. Right? And I I look at it this way, right so. And I and and here's my moment, right? And so
it wasn't until 2018, in which again my invincibility complex probably got the best of me.
and, thank God, my my cardiologist called me up
(12:08):
right before Thanksgiving, here in the States, and said, Hey, I want to put a monitor on you just to see what you're doing. And I said, Well, I'm having some symptoms. I think maybe this is just me living with my afib.
and then I come back. I sent the Monitor away. I come back, and I see this guy, and now we're in in December, and you know it was, and I'll tell you the whole story because it's it's it was really a a defining moment for me, because
(12:31):
I live at. I live in southern New Hampshire, and Dartmouth Hospital is an hour and a half north of me in New Hampshire, northern New Hampshire, and my wife stayed down, didn't come with me to the doctor's appointment. She'd gone to every other appointment.
Shouldn't come with me because my my son had a dentist appointment, so we split up. I went my way. I woke up by the way, and an amazing workout it was a chest day, so I was all pumped up. I was ready to go. I was going into this cardiac, my cardiology meeting. I was going to take on the world.
(12:56):
and he comes around the corner and he's he's all ashen, and I don't know if you've ever seen anybody that is like bleach white because they're like this isn't good, and
he's like Mr. Caveney. We got to put a we got to put a pacemaker in you. You have tacky, Brady syndrome, and I'm like, what like, what is that? Right? And so I knew what it was, but I like, how do I have this?
And then he explained it to me, and ultimately what would had been happening for me. About 6 6 months prior to this
(13:20):
was, my heart was pausing about 30 to 40 times a month for 6 seconds.
and so what those 6 second pauses meant was, I was at the tacky. Brady, by the way, is the elevated heart rate the Brady is your heart's tired, so you're taking a break.
so I'd find myself passing out, you know, collapsing while driving, trying to build my business. All these things.
(13:44):
Long story short, pacemaker goes in. I think I'm on the better side of it, and then the next week we get to we get together. Now we're closer to Christmas. All I'm doing. I'm sitting on the couch with my kids. We're watching what was deemed as being a Christmas movie. But it was. It was actually venom by marvel and you know. And so my wife leaves the room, and I and all of a sudden I just feel my heart just start to take off, and I got up to 240 beats per minute.
(14:11):
and my pacemaker, I know what my pacemaker was for my pacemaker was there for the pauses, nothing for the elevation. And so here I think I am. This is it like I am racing until I can no longer race, and my heart completely crashes out.
Paramedics showed up my wife's pouring a bottle of aspirin down my throat, chew and swallow, chew and swallow like all this is happening right? So
(14:33):
this was my mortality moment, like, I literally think I'm dying at this point. Thankfully, I didn't.
came out of that.
And then I said, All right, what do I need to do differently in my life. Right? And this is where it was. You don't have the why, I guess. Why I'm saying this is you said it's heavy, or it could be freeing. And for me yes, it was heavy, right, but it was also very freeing, because I thought to myself.
(14:55):
If I'm not going to be here tomorrow.
I'm going to do everything within my power today to make the most of my day make the most today. Most most of other people's days, if I can right, whatever that capacity is.
And to me that's just liberating because then I can. I can just go do what I want to do. Not not, you know, unencumbered, you know, you know what I'm saying like, if something, if I want to go start another business, I'm gonna do it right. And that's that's what I'm doing now
(15:21):
is starting another business, because I'm transforming what I went through my pain into now, what my business is, which is unlimited heart health and wellness, which is specifically focusing on patients with afib. And again going to say I was smart, but I was so ignorant.
I can only imagine individuals that don't have access to the resources that I do.
(15:42):
what they're doing, how they're struggling, and that's what we're trying to do is is make an impact on their lives.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:47):
I think this is really important. I don't want to skip by this. You talked earlier on about the connection between your heart and your head, and that's when the magic happens. You talked about also
being well versed in medical journals and medical reading and the research. You know what Tachy Brady is, you know.
you know you've read the this.
(16:10):
You've read the research. You know what Afib is. You know
what these things are scientifically. Yet when the ashen doctor shows up and says, Mr. Caveney.
we're putting in a pacemaker.
All that stuff goes away.
Jim Kaveney (16:26):
Got it.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:27):
And it just is like, what are you talking about?
What does that mean? And and isn't that interesting that in those moments
the the connection goes away right? And and that's a scary thing, and probably not as scary as a 240 beats per minute. I mean, venom's an exciting movie, especially in watching with the boys. But man, not that exciting. So.
Jim Kaveney (16:51):
No.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:52):
So what?
What are the things that you've learned to do to embrace those challenges now
and and quiet, that so that you are keeping and maintaining that heart and head connection are, are there deliberate steps that you employ? What do you do?
Jim Kaveney (17:12):
Yeah, no. So so I'm I'm blessed right? So I haven't had an an afib event now in 6 years. Right? So I had a after all, of that stuff happened the following year in 2019 March of 2019 which we're actually now, we're in March of 2025. So
it was actually March 18th is when my I had my last cardiac ablation, when they went in and and walled off the electrical conduction that was causing the issues. So I've been free for 6 years. So it's a lot easier, right when when the symptoms aren't there anymore. But I'm still an afib patient. So for me
(17:45):
I do everything. Every every morning I wake up with a purpose of you know I'm not an act. I don't meditate, or any of those things, but I do work out, I do pray. I'm a faithful person, so I do all that stuff to kind of ground myself, loaded with gratitude, because again I experience those things, and I'm like Boy, tomorrow might not be here. So I better enjoy what I'm doing now.
and so that helps me to then reset my mind, and vice versa, right? And so so I. Everything I do now is very deliberate in making sure that I'm healthy because I want to survive for my wife. I want to survive for my kids, and and I always stick with that the strong mindset, because I think but I'm also. But I'm also not naive, right? And I want to be very clear with this.
(18:26):
because I think you know there, there's folks, and they all well, well intended, and well-meaning. When you go through crap in your life
people will come back to you and say
it's happening for you, not to you. And I'm like, Yeah, that doesn't feel good like, not right now, I'm not ready for that right? And so I state that because I am not perfect by any means. And so I have this, and I don't know if you ever heard the phrase. It's not mine, but I stole it, but it's embrace the suck.
(18:53):
And I I've heard that phrase, and I like it's been used in so many different ways. But that is so true. It's like, all right
this sucks.
I'm going to sit back and wallow in kind of my self. Pity of like woe is me! What's wrong with me?
And there's the 2 choices.
I could either say, All right.
Now, I'm going to embrace what I what's going through, and I need to make changes in my life, to to be stronger, or I could go down the hole and just say, Nope, what was me like? My life is over, and guess what? Most likely my life would have been over. But I said, No, I'm here for a reason. What is my purpose? And it's a lot easier to look and reflect and say, Hey.
(19:29):
I went through all that stuff, and it was being done for me.
And now here's my purpose to go out and help people right? So that's how I that's how I balance those 2 things is just simultaneously, but but also understanding that there's days in which
which is good and bad days like some days, are just bad.
And so one of the things I try to, you know, when we talk about the carpe, DM. And seizing the day
(19:52):
is at the end of the day, you know, if you didn't do whatever you were supposed to do that day, just forgive yourself, you know, and just. And this simple process of saying.
Okay, I missed out on that. But what did I do? What did I do? That moves whatever forward
and know that hopefully. God willing, if I wake up the next morning.
land on my knees and gratitude that I'm alive for another day to do it all over again, and that's that's kind of how I line.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:19):
Powerful. I you know I heard you say you're blessed, and and I know you feel that I know you believe that.
And you're doing things.
You're you're you're you're
deliberate and intentional about a lot of things that keep you in a blessed space in an intentional place. You're you're I think you're you're really humble in saying oh, I don't meditate, but I work out.
(20:45):
I pray. I experience gratitude like I really do gratitude every single day. I think these are
pathways to meditation, right? And and and making sure that you feel those things.
The the tagline to your book is how to transform pain to purpose. And you've really done that.
(21:07):
How do you help people so? Yes, a lot of people say, this is happening for you and not to you, and you're right to say that sometimes it's like right now not a good time. Don't bring me great. Take your rainbows and lollipops for a second. I'll be back to you. But I need this
when you're working with people who are learning to balance these things, and you've got 3 pillars that you talk about in your book.
(21:34):
Holistic work, faith, health, faith, family life and balance. Right? So this this whole piece that you're that you're working on. Where do you start when you're when you're working with somebody, because right now somebody's listening.
they're an entrepreneur. They're they're in pain
in their in their work. Maybe they're in pain in their health.
Maybe they're struggling.
(21:54):
What's the 1st thing that you do.
Jim Kaveney (21:58):
Yeah, usually, usually, what I do with those folks is just I want to. I want to hear their story right? Because I know from my own experience when I wrote my book, how cathartic it was
for me to write my story, and I again, you know, just being fully transparent. I mean, there were moments in which.
you know, I wrote my book at 5 o'clock every morning. You know I did. I don't. You know. 1,500 words, 2,000 words a day. That was the the mantra that I was doing, but I would sit at 5 o'clock, sometimes 6 o'clock in the morning, and I just I would bend over my my laptop, and I'd be in tears
(22:28):
because it was suppressed, you know. You know, as often I grew up Irish, Catholic, right? And so with being Irish Catholic. Sometimes we learn to just push everything down right. And so it came out, all on the pages, and I'm like holy cow. This is so cathartic, so
so when I talk to folks I have them tell my my, tell me what their story is, and then I want them to kind of start to write down a few of those things so they can get it out, and so they can start to open and realize like, okay, yes, this is painful. I'm going through whatever X is in my life.
(23:01):
because then I want them to understand it.
and then I also want them to say, Well, how do I then go back.
revisit what I'm going through right now.
and and realign myself, you know to to really have
a restart in in what those challenges are.
and I don't want to be naive. Obviously, I mean, if they're entrepreneurs like you and I have done and struggled right.
(23:25):
and I and I don't take lightly what I shared with you earlier, too, around.
You know your determination has to
really be stronger than the the concern for failure.
And that's that's when I think success happens with entrepreneurs. And so I tell people, if you need to go back and revisit and retool what it is, do it
(23:45):
but stay committed to where your goal is. Because it's those people that go through and resist the the will to quit that will ultimately survive. You'll come out on the other end, and then
I'll I'll This is a prime example. Again. Using my my experience.
I mean, we started our business, and I think
over 18 months. We grossed $13,000.
(24:08):
I mean, I'm trying to raise a family, and we had $13,000 right coming in. And that was gross, right? So I don't think we paid taxes on that because it wasn't enough. The government laughed at that one.
But I say that because
you know, my wife and I then had a proverbial come to Jesus meeting like, Hey, we like like, we're we're going down here like you need to go get a real job. And literally a week and a half later I get a phone call right before Christmas, and somebody's like, Hey, can you meet me? January 3rd in New Jersey?
(24:37):
I heard you're really good at X. Can you do this
game on like, I'm like, I'm like, Lisa, we are. We're good. This is gonna take off.
And it was because we just stayed persistent and committed to where we were going that we ultimately broke through.
And so I I say that because you need a support network, and you know, the whole point of that story was, my wife was there. She supported me through thick and thin good times, bad times, but then I also had support networks outside of my family that were egging me on like, Keep going, keep pushing right.
(25:08):
The other aspect, too, is, my motivations were, and clearly you do a lot of reading in your life, and I do a lot, too. And
I just I recommend to individuals. If you haven't started reading, start to read other people's stories, because when you frame it out, and it's not a oh, their problem is worse than mine. So I'm going to be okay. No, it's just to say there are other people that go through the same crap, maybe worse, maybe less worse than you.
(25:34):
But they persist, and they find ways to revisit. And that's that's where the strength comes right.
And I think your podcast the other day with a young lady on there, you know, I think it was around. It's you know successes when you learn how to
resist resist the those those challenges that are coming coming your way so long, long waited answer to your short question. So Paul.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:54):
No, no super, super, awesome answer. So one of the things that I think that you read really did. And you said at the beginning of it. I want to go back to it because it's super important.
You said that you suffered from anxiety as a child, right, that you were an anxious child, and and hunched over
your laptop as your pulling.
(26:16):
pulling the words out of your story, getting a thousand 1,500 words down every single day at 5 o'clock in the morning. I say often, and there are so many things about this, but
the way to get the loop out of your head is to write it down. The way to get it out of your head and into the world is to write it down, and then you can start to notice
(26:40):
the nuance. You can notice the strength in your. I think that when it lives up here in our heads only what ends up happening is, we only see one side of it. It's not 3 dimensional, it's not life. Life is much more textured than that. And the moment we loop that take that loop and extend it down to a piece of paper.
or in any way, shape or form. All of a sudden we can notice the strength, the resilience and the patterns that are actually leading us forward as opposed to moving us back right? Did you not see that.
Jim Kaveney (27:14):
Oh, my gosh! Without without question and to your point. It's it's you know. It's it's it's it's like when people talk like news and everything else, and all the different crap that's going on in the world nowadays. It's like, Oh, you, you get a snippet of things right? And I think to your point, that's the we have those little snippets in our mind.
But when you read the whole, when you put everything in context, that's where you see the strength. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. And that's exactly the way I felt.
(27:42):
Now, I'm not a huge journaler, which which my editor was funny. She's like, Yeah, you don't, journal. But you just wrote a you know. You just wrote 95,000 words, you know. So you kind of, do you just waited, you know, 40, some years to do it. But
so that's that's 1 of the key components that we're striving to do, too. With with my editor exactly
is to help people get those those things out on paper in some way, shape or form, because that's when they come to life.
(28:09):
And that's when you start to see your strength. That's when you see your dots. As we were talking about with Steve Jobs and all those things and then it. And then you start to think
I'm better than I thought I was right. And okay, I can do this.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:22):
Something you said really quickly. And I think it's really cool that we're landing here is that headlines right? The headlines, the snippets that we see exist in our mind, right? The headlines, and they're always negative. They're always
not always. But they're often negative unless we're putting positive headlines in there. It's it's the headlines. If it bleeds, it leads, it's up there and the headlines in our mind. But we have to read the story. We have to write the story, we have to put it down. And and I think it's such a really
(28:55):
great idea. Embracing the suck is something really cool. Todd Palmer, the author of from suck to success was on our Podcast as well on paper, napkin wisdom. He's a great friend of the show. So I totally love that
an unlimited heart fuels a life well lived
(29:15):
for you, that's full of purpose, right?
Jim Kaveney (29:18):
100%.
That's amazing percent.
Yeah. My wife, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:24):
No no no go ahead.
Jim Kaveney (29:25):
No, it's you know. So from an entrepreneurial perspective, too, I'll I'll put this in context. So
when I had my events in 28, late 2820 19
just so happenstance. Then all of a sudden, other companies started getting interested interested in the business. And, by the way. My wife was my business partner eventually, you know. So she came in. And so
(29:47):
that's another book I need to write about how working with your spouse can be good or bad. But
But then, you know, other companies started coming to us, wanting interested in in acquiring us, and we so we ultimately sold our business in 2020
and
and we sold the business. And and I think you know, you were saying this in one of your other podcasts, too, is like you, do you do these events? And then you think that something great is going to happen. And you're going to feel amazing when it happens. But when I sold my business, people were looking at me. They're like.
(30:15):
aren't you sad? You don't even seem like overly ecstatic like what and to me. I just said I knew it was going to happen like, because I wanted it so much to happen. Not like that was my sole goal. My sole goal was, I needed to build something so beautiful
that somebody else outside of my organization would say, I want that. And then you validated what I just did, and so I felt great. I felt the validation.
(30:40):
but when that happened I went to work for the company that ultimately acquired us, and I was there as a part of an employment agreement. For 3 years
I did my job, did my job exceptionally, exceptionally well, but my wife noticed. She's like.
I can tell you're not that happy?
And I said, How's that? She's like, because you are a purpose filled person, and you served your purpose already. You built a great business. You sold it.
And now you're building a business for somebody else. And I'm like, Yeah, it's still my purpose. She's like, yeah, but no, you need more. I know you need more. And then when I told her my vision vision was like, Hey, after my 3 year employment agreement. I'm gonna go write a book and start a new business. And she she literally we're over eating dinner together. And she and I looked up from my plate, and I see her, and tears are running down her face, and she's like I'm so happy she goes, that is, you go do it right. And
(31:22):
so I got our blessing. So here I'm doing it again. But but yeah, purpose is so important to me, and that's why I love to talk about it.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:30):
Yeah, I think I think that's a great place to land, Jim. We do this thing this season in honor of the late John Ruland, who passed away suddenly. He was a great friend of the show. He gave us a napkin more than 10 years ago. That says what you appreciate appreciates, and we end every show this season with gratitude.
Is there somebody that you'd like to shout out and give some appreciation to.
Jim Kaveney (31:54):
Oh, I mean, it's 1st and foremost, it's got to be my wife. My partner in life.
In so many different ways. It's it's funny because she is the
she's like you are the big thinker. And I'm the big doer. So she's an operation specialist. By the way, so she's actually still working for the organization that we were acquired by and she's running operations for the whole place. And so so if if my dreams couldn't become a reality if it wasn't for her operational expertise. So she's in so many ways. Just been an absolute blessing to me in my life.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:27):
That's wonderful. Thank you, Jim.
Jim Kaveney (32:29):
Thank you! God!
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