“Self-care isn’t selfish… it’s essential.”
That’s the simple but deeply powerful message that Karen Kossow chose to write on her napkin for this episode of Paper Napkin Wisdom. And it’s a message that comes from lived experience.
Karen is a devoted parent of two autistic children and a tireless advocate for those navigating complex family dynamics. As a life coach and speaker, she specializes in helping caregivers, especially mothers, shift their mindset from burnout and guilt to empowerment and sustainability.
In our conversation, Karen shares how self-care transformed her parenting, her marriage, and her impact as a coach. “I see firsthand in my own life, and with the clients that I work with, what happens when people in stressful situations that they can’t get out of don’t take care of themselves,” she says. It’s not just about spa days or bubble baths—it’s about survival, and more importantly, about thriving.
She challenges the narrative that taking time for yourself is a luxury or an indulgence. Instead, she reframes it as a leadership act—one that sets the tone for families, teams, and communities. “We’ve somehow linked value to self-sacrifice, and that’s broken us,” Karen says. “Self-care isn’t the thing you do when everything else is done—it’s the thing you do so you can do everything else.”
Throughout the episode, Karen brings clarity and compassion to what self-care actually means. She’s not asking us to abandon responsibility—but rather to redefine it. If your fuel tank is empty, you can’t drive anyone anywhere.
Her wisdom is especially vital for entrepreneurs, caregivers, and change-makers who often put themselves last. As Karen reminds us, “If you go down, the whole system collapses. You matter.”
This episode is an invitation to pause, reflect, and reframe how you show up for yourself—because that’s the key to showing up fully for others.
5 Key Takeaways from Karen Kossow
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Self-care is leadership, not luxury Taking care of yourself isn’t optional—it’s the foundation for being able to care for others and lead effectively.
Take Action: Block out 15 non-negotiable minutes each day just for yourself—recharge, journal, br
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:03):
Darren casso welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Karen Kossow (00:07):
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:08):
So you shared an interesting napkin with me, and it's self care isn't selfish. It's essential. Why did you share that.
Karen Kossow (00:16):
Because I am a parent of 2 autistic kids, and I see firsthand in my own life, and with the clients that I work with what happens when people in stressful situations that they can't get out of don't take care of themselves. And it is a cultural mindset shift that I think is really important to try to help other people understand that taking care of yourself in the most basic sense.
(00:42):
is so important, and especially if you are struggling through difficulties or challenges.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:49):
Yeah. So
why do you think it is that people who are struggling are the ones that don't take this time? Isn't it interesting.
Karen Kossow (00:59):
It is from personal experience and from working with several of my clients.
You run out of energy at the end of the day. You just want to crawl into bed. You want to disassociate a little bit from the reality that you're living, and
our society has really co-opted the term of self-care to be a commodity, a commercialized thing, right? A lot of people think it's going to the Spa, or, you know, going out for drinks with the guys or going golfing or taking a girls trip for the weekend. And it can be those things. But what I like to help people focus on is those small daily acts of self-care that are going to fill your cup.
(01:40):
give you the energy and desire to get out of bed in the morning, or, in my case, for several years in the middle of the night, a couple times to help the kids through different challenges.
And it it's things like gratitude. Eating well.
taking care of your physical body, watching your phone usage, being mindful of the media that you consume and of how you're spending what energy and time you do have that you get to dictate where it goes.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:11):
Okay, th, that makes sense. And you know, what I really like is that I think we do this. You know, I think
leaders, entrepreneurs and and all people do this right? We we wait. We sort of kick down the big fix. Oh, I'm going to do this big thing that's gonna fix it
right? The self-care trip, the guys trip the gals trip, the whatever.
And that's gonna make everything. Okay, we're gonna delay. And we're taught right delay, gratification. That's the prize inside. I'm going to wait for that.
(02:39):
Why,
why is it so much more important just to do these little things, these little things that you can do today.
What have you seen.
Karen Kossow (02:48):
Because they're the things you can do today. They're the things that you have control over. Right? And I know as a mom to kids with some, some challenges that there, there's so few things that I have direct control over.
And I was a stay at home, mom, we homeschool. So I was with them all day every day, and we couldn't
(03:12):
leave them with a teenage Babysitter. They needed someone with with more training, with more experience. We often couldn't leave them alone with the same person. Right? So my ability to get away, my ability to have time alone was really small, and I had to figure out
as an introvert, also right to make it more challenging. What can I do to not lose my ever loving mind because we we got to sometimes in some places where, you know, I was pushed beyond my limit, and I wasn't doing well, mentally or physically, and
(03:45):
realized also that I could not parent from that place. I could not help them co-regulate from that place I wasn't able to show up as the parent they needed me to be, and it wasn't fair to them, and it wasn't fair to me, so I had to figure out.
what can I do when I can't leave the house. I don't have anyone to watch my kids.
The world feels like everything is awful, and I have so little control over changing any of it.
(04:12):
And for me, that came back to things like gratitude and mindfulness.
being aware of what I eat and how that makes my body feel of working on my mindset, and the changes I saw were dramatic and not instant. It took a while right, but it was an UN
doing of very significant, stressful few years. And it it did take some time, but finding community finding people that I could share my challenges with, and then working through them and continuing to do it each day, right? Because this stress builds up each day.
(04:51):
And if you don't do something to kind of empty that stress bucket, you're going to have problems.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:57):
Yeah, so so this is really interesting. I think a lot of people who
are in various places. You know the the thing that I noticed that was very relatable.
and I'm not a mother of autistic children, but you know I run a business, and running a business is all hands on deck, too, and and there's a lot of similarity between not being able to get away from it. And you couldn't get away from it either. And by the time. So you know, you talked about these things, these little things, gratitude, mindfulness, journaling. Taking that time for yourself.
(05:32):
The argument could be also. You could just do that at the end of the day, couldn't you?
You would need to do that to start the day. So is that a good place to start? Or how did that work for you?
Karen Kossow (05:44):
For me. It
it did start at the end of the day, and a lot of it started during covid lockdown.
And the funny thing was, I actually started my business
because I had more free time during Covid to sort of unwind some of the stress and discover some of these mindset shifts, and and how they impacted me
(06:04):
so. And it is very similar. It is all hands on deck all the time, and as a solopreneur while still homeschooling and parenting those 2 wonderful children of mine. It
it's always a juggling act. I hate the word balance with a fiery passion. Right? I will never have balance in my life. It is constant juggling and hoping that I don't drop an important ball like there's no balance, constant juggle.
(06:31):
and what I found was it started at the end of the day
it started with, I'm going to do my gratitude practice. I'm going to write down just 3 things I'm grateful for.
And then I started noticing more things to be grateful for.
and then I started changing it and saying, Our family, it's me, my husband and our 2 kids. I'm going to write down one thing my husband did well today that I appreciated, and it doesn't have to be well, like he unloaded the dishwasher the right way.
(06:57):
You know. My husband went to the grocery store because we were out of corn flakes right? I appreciate that he did that
my oldest child did their homework without complaining. I appreciate that they did that. My younger child went to bed before 11 o'clock. Awesome right, and I started just noticing more things that they were doing
(07:18):
that could bring me gratitude, and that could bring me joy.
so that throughout the day I had those little reminders that it isn't all awful.
We have challenges. Yes, I'm not going to sugarcoat the fact that
we've been through some really rough seasons in our family. But when you start noticing those little things throughout the day.
it makes it so much easier to get through the day. And then I found. Well, I'm a little less stressed. I'm in a better mood. I'm a more pleasant person to be around.
(07:46):
And then something that happens a lot with autistic kids is, they need someone to help co-regulate their nervous system. So as I was more calm and focused and patient and present.
they became more calm and focused. Well, not focused. Adhd is a heck of a drug, but they they became more patient. They became more willing to adapt to the new circumstances that may come up during the day, that before would have thrown them for a loop.
(08:12):
So, as I was being more grateful and noticing more things, there was more things to be grateful for. The kids were doing better. Suddenly I had time to sit down and read a whole chapter of a book while they were having lunch, whereas before I had to sit between them sometimes and and help everyone get through the meal safely, and it just started opening up
(08:37):
everything for me to have more time to have those little pockets throughout the day. That might only be 5 min, but I could fit something in, and that is something that would feed my soul
and work on my
mindset of how challenging things were, so that it didn't feel so challenging. And then eventually it wasn't.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:00):
That's that's really neat, you know. The thing that you know immediately came to me. You're picking all these little things, you know, getting the corn flakes, finishing homework.
Karen Kossow (09:09):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:10):
There was a while ago. I did a series on gratitude, and we we. One of the segments was
sweet, the small stuff, and what I talked about was taking the small stuff and finding the sweetness in them as opposed to. You know the old saying is, sweat the small stuff. But this one was sweet, the small stuff, and that's what you did. And and what was neat about it is that you said when you started appreciating those little things you saw bigger things, maybe that were right behind it. And and it's true, right? If you take something small and bring it into the field of view. It's sort of
(09:44):
opaques everything around it. It blocks out the things around it. The small thing can become big, and it feels like that's what you did for yourself.
I wonder, I wonder?
Let's talk about this. I think that you know you've mentioned your
your 2 autistic children, and how challenging it was for you to to, you know.
(10:07):
Lead them, I think, to a certain degree, and also bring yourself along.
What is it you know? Where did that start for you? I mean, how did you realize that you needed to dig into it as opposed to? I think some people hide from the reality that they they have to face.
Karen Kossow (10:27):
Oh, goodness, oh, there's a lot of layers to that question
it. It was a process, and it was a multi year process. I had an amazing therapist that I was working with, and she for myself, yep, for myself. And the kids were doing their own several different types of therapy at that point, and she really helped me see how some of the things that I experienced as a child and some challenges that I had gone through was really informing the way that I was parenting them, and how
(11:00):
I was doing the best I could under a difficult circumstance and difficult
environment that again we were. I was working to change.
but change was slow, and support was minimal. We we live in Idaho. All of our family and friends are in New York, and the services that are available to families like mine
(11:24):
are
there but difficult to navigate, and also the the rates that they pay support. People to come in to be a help are really abysmal, right? So it's difficult to find and attract people who are supportive. So I was doing a lot of this on my own trying to navigate through my own mental health challenges.
(11:48):
That had come as a result of my pregnancies, which were both unfortunately really really complicated and traumatic. And
to to start, I was trying to process through some of those emotions, and then the therapist
led me down a path of realizing that there is more going on, and that there was a way that
(12:08):
my attitude and my
the way that I chose to show up because it is choice, right? That that's another thing that I really took away from working with her. Was that how we present ourselves when we present ourselves. It's a choice, right? You can show up
as the best parent that you can be on any given day.
(12:28):
and I really hope that everyone does that.
But I also know that making poor choices throughout the day prevents us from doing that right. So if we are choosing to
drink a little bit too much, or take medication. That maybe isn't
But be mindful of how I'm putting that. But if whatever we're putting into our body isn't helping us meet our needs of being the best version of ourself or the best parent available when our kids need us. Looking at where that's coming from, and those self-destructive behaviors that I had quite a few of, and just making a way
(13:07):
through it, because that is the only way that you get out of it is to go through it.
and
you know I didn't have a choice. I couldn't send them to grandma's for the afternoon, or, you know, have a reliable person come, even offer respite, care. You know my husband was working 60 HA week at a high level job.
(13:28):
He was an essential employee throughout the pandemic, like we
were, it was me and discovering that
I was contributing to my own challenges, and that there are ways I could improve. It was life changing.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:43):
Yeah. You know one of the things that I
you talked about choices, right? It was a choice of how you showed up.
and you made some differences, different choices.
And those choices started, started off with the smaller things. Right? We talked a little bit about that.
One of the things that I think is really interesting is that you know
the same things that you talk about
(14:05):
in creating your business, the space to create your business, and during the pandemic also came in the changes that you made as a parent right, and and there I often make
some draw similarities between parenthood and leadership that there's never a day off for leadership you have to.
Success is never owned. It's rented, and the rent is due every day. It's due at the beginning of the day. It's not you, if you, if you want to, you can wait all day to the end of the day and pay the rent, but you know you've kind of lost the day waiting to do it.
(14:38):
So when you made that choice.
you know. What did that look like for you? Was it a Eureka? Was it a slow burn? What did that look like? How did you rewrite that story?
Karen Kossow (14:50):
Oh, I'm very much a Eureka kind of person. And I. My brain just clicks on. And then we're going on a different direction which sometimes is a blessing. Sometimes it's a curse.
and it was the decision to head in a different direction happened instantly.
There were moments building up to it for for several months beforehand, but once I made the decision to
(15:17):
start investing in myself, and to start caring about myself and my own needs again. There was. There was no looking back, and it
was
the impetus for a lot of huge changes in my life. Personally, professionally, as a mother, as a wife and as a community leader, because I went in and started helping build communities for parents of kids that are autistic. I had already had a pretty thriving homeschool community that I had been working to nourish. And it it opened up the whole world to me. And as
(15:51):
we started making those changes.
Everything seemed to get easier.
You know it was never easy, right? We still had a lot of challenges, and there were still things, and I'm still navigating through nonsense every day, which I don't think it ever. At this point I've decided it just doesn't go away right. There is always going to be something, and if you're not doing those daily things to empty out your stress bucket, if you're not taking that care of yourself throughout the day, if you're not paying the rent in the morning.
(16:21):
Eventually it just catches up with you so much that you can't do. Those things that you've decided are important, that you want to do so. One of the big things at the beginning
was that I started waking up early every day.
which was, Oh, my gosh! I'm thinking back to some of the hystericalness of it all, because I would have
(16:44):
between the 2 kids, someone waking me up almost every night for over a decade, and I'm talking multiple times a night. So I was going into this painfully sleep deprived.
and sometimes I wouldn't be able to get one kid down until 11 or 12 at night, and then would have the other one waking up at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, and I still was making the choice every day to start my day
(17:09):
before they were awake, and that became a huge capstone. Even now, 5 years later, if I'm not up before them.
I can't get going. I can't get my day started. I have to do a hard reset in the middle of the day where I go, and either.
you know, get them squared away, get them doing what they need to do, and then I go back and just do a meditation in bed and like wake up again for the day, just to get my brain set because it's incapable of starting and functioning. Well, if I get woken up and have to parent off the jump. So it was deciding that even on that very little sleep I was reclaiming my time and my space and my energy for myself in those moments when and where I could.
(17:52):
and because of our unique situation that had to be while they were sleeping.
and by the end of the day. I had paid rent all day long, and I couldn't muster up the energy or the strength to do much after they went to bed, so it had to be in the morning. But that was the start of everything really clicking into gear for me and getting through a lot of the really big challenges we had.
Govindh Jayaraman (18:19):
You know, it's it's something that strikes me about what you shared
is at the beginning. You said something about being an introvert.
I want to remind you that you're on a podcast. And I also want to remind you that you talked about how one of the big steps that you did was you built these communities, you know, communities for
(18:41):
other mothers that were in the same situation as you.
And and how that nourished you like that was the word you used nourished.
So okay, introvert. You went and built community by presumably talking to a whole bunch of strangers. And that's what nourished you.
Isn't it interesting that when you were doing what you needed for others, it was nourishing.
(19:11):
And you could defy your own, maybe personal, self-imposed restriction.
Karen Kossow (19:19):
Yeah. The thing for me about being an introvert is, I need alone time to recharge and to let my brain do its thing.
I am also really good at cosplaying as an extrovert, which I often do when I'm on a podcast interview for me, those communities were basically mostly built online. There was also some type of in-person Meetup for both of them. But
(19:50):
I have a deep need. And it it's been this way since I was very, very young. To build
communities for people. It's something I'm good at. I think it's something that comes easy to me. It is something that I feel the world needs so much more of for so many reasons for so many people, and that we'd all be a lot better off if we had a little more community in our life as someone who is not religious
(20:17):
it is very difficult to find, especially I live in Idaho in the Us. So it's a very religious area. So if you are trying to find community and you're not religious, it's really, really challenging. And I don't feel like it should be that way. So I've created these spaces, and they have all been built on my children and my children's challenges, right?
(20:41):
The homeschool space that I've created was built because I had an absolutely horrible day with my oldest when he was about 5 trying to get him. I don't know what you do with 5 year olds in kindergarten anymore, but trying to get him to do something, and he would not. And I was so frustrated, and all of the the other spaces online didn't really fit our vibe or our needs. And I said, I'm gonna make a group. And I'm going to find myself some friends. And I did.
(21:11):
And it's been the same thing with the group that I've been working.
building and growing for parents of autistic kids.
and other kids with disabilities.
It just
you need a space. You need a place where people understand you right. And and so few other parents or people in general are going to understand it unless they've lived it. And while
(21:34):
Facebook is not my favorite place these days, sorry for the maniacal giggle.
there was value, you know 10 years ago, in creating these spaces and creating these groups and trying to create these senses of community where
people could could gather right? Because so many of us are. I don't want to say stuck, because I don't like the way that feels. But you kinda are right. You have kids who maybe
(22:02):
you can't even buckle them in a car seat sometimes when they're little who struggle, being around other children who struggle, being with outside of, you know, arm's reach of their caregiver. And you have caregivers who desperately need to know that
is awful, as that feels in the moment that that is normal, for what they're going through, and that there is validation for them in their struggles, and I feel like
(22:30):
a huge part of my work was letting people know that what they're going through is normal. And it's okay. And it's hard.
and that when they're ready to make that shift they can look at it in a different way, and it will
feel easier, and in many ways it will get easier for them.
There will always be challenges that their children go through because of their neurodiversity, because we live in a world that's not really designed for it and isn't always kind or welcoming, but that we can create that reservoir of strength and resilience that we need to get us through it so that we can help get them through it, and hopefully transfer some of our
(23:08):
self-care and self coping mechanisms and skills onto them so that they have them as they go out in the world.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:15):
So I think this is amazing. Right like you had this overwhelm, this sense of overwhelm, this sense of maybe drowning in all of
the emotion, the fatigue, the challenge, the lack of being able to care for yourself.
and in building a community that helped others. You helped yourself, and I believe that when we give to others what we most need.
(23:43):
that's our greatest place of impact. And
it's it feels like you changed your life when you did that? Am I wrong?
Karen Kossow (23:52):
100%, 100%. And
it it changed my outlook, helping others gives me joy to know that I and I used to say this to my therapist all the time
that the challenges that we were going through, and I don't get into specifics. But we we went through a lot of a lot. Just leave it there
(24:14):
that those challenges that we went through and those really hard decisions that we had to make.
that there had to be a purpose, there had to be a reason for it. I am. I am not
one of those people that's like everything happens for a reason.
but you can learn from everything you go through, no matter how horrible it is that there is a
opportunity for learning and growth in even the absolute, most awful situation that you go through.
(24:40):
and if you don't grab onto it, you went through that situation
anyway, right? There's no changing it. But if you look at what you can grow from
after having gone through it, there's an opportunity, and I feel like so many people don't embrace that, and I
(25:00):
feel like that's something I've become quite good at and helping others. It just reinforces the idea that all those challenges and struggles I went through
had a purpose, and now they have a really great outcome for other parents.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:16):
Yeah, you know, I, I and I, and I. I also am struck by this other point that you made that the decision
happen in an instant. I believe that that's what happens. Like there's a i'm I'm
when I was a kid I used to love the comic books, you know, and they had these thought bubbles over people's heads right? And and when you were talking about just the expression on your face and the way you talked about that snap of decision I had like. Egad! Over your head, that's such a comic book. Geek nerd thing! But that's the excitement that I saw from you and and but isn't it true right? Isn't it true that the change does happen that that desire to change hits you hard in a moment?
(25:58):
But what I think most people don't do. But you did, was took a small step right away, like it wasn't a perfect step, but you talked about that. You took a small step right away. Now, is that something you're more deliberate about now, after laying down those breadcrumbs and putting down that road, is it? When you feel that
(26:19):
snap, you take a step. Is that part of it.
Karen Kossow (26:23):
Yeah. And it. It's funny that you asked that I
just started a whole other brand new business that helps parents homeschool using chat gpt
because I had a wild idea, and I sat with it for like 2 or 3 days, and it wouldn't go away, and I talked to my husband, and I said, I don't have time for this. I talked to my accountability partner, and she's like girl. You don't have time for this, and I was like, I can't make it go away. So I built a whole new business in like a month
(26:50):
2 months ago, like, I started this all in February, because it wouldn't go away, and I feel often that divine spark of inspiration. I don't know if you've ever read Elizabeth Gilbert's book big magic.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:03):
Yeah.
Karen Kossow (27:04):
It's that kind of a thing where she talks about. If you don't run with it, the universe is going to go share it with somebody else because it needs to be created. And it needs to happen. And I just look at my life
in that sense of you know, ideas happen a lot. I'm a creative person.
Some of them are meant for me, and if I don't make them happen, who else will.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:27):
Yeah.
Karen Kossow (27:28):
Right, and I owe it to the universe.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:30):
Yeah. And and you know again, I like your other approach about the universe, too, though, because things don't always happen. You know, things that are obstacles don't always happen, because oh, you know, the universe is saying I shouldn't go forward. No, I was saying, try again. You didn't go the right way. And so I'm sure, even though you know, this dropped in for you as an idea it wasn't a slam dunk. It wasn't easy, right.
Karen Kossow (27:55):
No? Well, yes and no. It was a lot of work, and it
was again juggling, so my husband had to help a lot more with homeschool. My house is trashed. I haven't done any of my garden prep work that I normally would do. I didn't go hang out with my mom's group, for you know, about a month or 2 while I was getting this up and running, but it was a conscious choice
(28:20):
that things are going to go a little feral.
because Mom needs to do this for herself, and in the future I think it's going to benefit
not only my family as that business gets up and going, it's going to be mostly hands off, but it will help all the homeschoolers hopefully who use it, because it's a wonderful a wonderful resource that I've created if I do say so myself, but I also have the energy boost from seeing that idea
(28:47):
from inception, creation to fruition, and that
is a huge energy giver for me.
And that's 1 of the things I've just become really aware of how my brain works, how I respond to
managing my energy levels.
and it would have taken more energy and honestly, probably mental time as well if I kept fighting it.
(29:15):
And sometimes you just gotta give in and
you know, we'll see where it goes. And so far it's going well.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:25):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
You! You talked about the power of gratitude for you and I in our community, in the
community of paper napkin wisdom contributors. We had a great friend of the show, John Ruland, who passed away suddenly a few months ago, and his paper napkin, was what you appreciate appreciates.
(29:49):
It was a statement that when you appreciate people
they appreciate and value and do great things because you've done, you've recognized their greatness.
So with that in mind.
Who would you like to appreciate today.
Karen Kossow (30:03):
Oh, goodness!
My kids, you know. Can I do? Can I do both of them?
Govindh Jayaraman (30:09):
You can do as many people as you like.
Karen Kossow (30:11):
They have transformed me into the person that I am today. I firmly believe that as
loving parents it's a feedback loop constantly with, and it starts when they're 1st born, or they 1st come into your life where
they're doing things. You're reacting. They're doing things. You're reacting. And it's a constant feedback loop, and I can say that I am a much better person for having been molded into the parent, that they needed me to be. And I am
(30:39):
continuously impressed with how hard they are working to make their way in a world that isn't always welcoming or kind to them.
and that they are finding who they are, and they are
working through their challenges in ways that are constructive and not destructive anymore. And that
(31:00):
I don't know. It's it's been amazing to watch them grow. And I'm just really excited for
what the future holds for them.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:07):
That's amazing. And I do want to go back to. I think that what's beautiful about what you just shared a lot of beautiful things about what you just shared
was you said that your therapist said the pattern that you were sharing was informing
the way you, parent and the path your children followed. And isn't it interesting that you changed your path and their path
(31:30):
at the same time.
Karen Kossow (31:32):
And that is at the heart of what I work on with my coaching clients, because
so often you can't see the forest for the trees. Everything is hard, everything sucks, everything is miserable, and you can't see a different way out of it, because you're so stuck in it.
and you have to make that choice and take action after you make that choice, to broaden your perception of what's going on, and to open your mindset to the possibility that there is a different way. And it
(32:03):
again. I'm trying to think of a way I can put it without
for one of our children. We were looking at the possibility that they may not be able to continue living in our home
because of the level of challenges that they were having, and
that child is now doing so well, and is so independent and so loving and so kind and so generous
(32:29):
with their actions.
And they're
it's because I didn't give up. And it's because I made a choice that I was going to be what they needed me to be, even though it was really hard, and you know a lot of therapy for everybody, right, and a lot of support from professionals. But we were able to get through it, and I think a huge part of that was because of that feedback loop between us.
(33:00):
And I think a lot of the challenges that parents of autistic kids face is due in part to the fact that they aren't in the feedback loop in the way that their child needs them to be.
and that once you kind of get in alignment with them, that it really opens up for
that relationship to blossom in the way that it
(33:22):
struggles to do so without some intervention.
Govindh Jayaraman (33:26):
That's a beautiful share.
Karen Kossow (33:28):
Thank you.
Govindh Jayaraman (33:28):
Thank you, Karen.
Karen Kossow (33:29):
Thank you.
Darren casso welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Karen Kossow (00:07):
Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:08):
So you shared an interesting napkin with me, and it's self care isn't selfish. It's essential. Why did you share that.
Karen Kossow (00:16):
Because I am a parent of 2 autistic kids, and I see firsthand in my own life, and with the clients that I work with what happens when people in stressful situations that they can't get out of don't take care of themselves. And it is a cultural mindset shift that I think is really important to try to help other people understand that taking care of yourself in the most basic sense.
(00:42):
is so important, and especially if you are struggling through difficulties or challenges.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:49):
Yeah. So
why do you think it is that people who are struggling are the ones that don't take this time? Isn't it interesting.
Karen Kossow (00:59):
It is from personal experience and from working with several of my clients.
You run out of energy at the end of the day. You just want to crawl into bed. You want to disassociate a little bit from the reality that you're living, and
our society has really co-opted the term of self-care to be a commodity, a commercialized thing, right? A lot of people think it's going to the Spa, or, you know, going out for drinks with the guys or going golfing or taking a girls trip for the weekend. And it can be those things. But what I like to help people focus on is those small daily acts of self-care that are going to fill your cup.
(01:40):
give you the energy and desire to get out of bed in the morning, or, in my case, for several years in the middle of the night, a couple times to help the kids through different challenges.
And it it's things like gratitude. Eating well.
taking care of your physical body, watching your phone usage, being mindful of the media that you consume and of how you're spending what energy and time you do have that you get to dictate where it goes.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:11):
Okay, th, that makes sense. And you know, what I really like is that I think we do this. You know, I think
leaders, entrepreneurs and and all people do this right? We we wait. We sort of kick down the big fix. Oh, I'm going to do this big thing that's gonna fix it
right? The self-care trip, the guys trip the gals trip, the whatever.
And that's gonna make everything. Okay, we're gonna delay. And we're taught right delay, gratification. That's the prize inside. I'm going to wait for that.
(02:39):
Why,
why is it so much more important just to do these little things, these little things that you can do today.
What have you seen.
Karen Kossow (02:48):
Because they're the things you can do today. They're the things that you have control over. Right? And I know as a mom to kids with some, some challenges that there, there's so few things that I have direct control over.
And I was a stay at home, mom, we homeschool. So I was with them all day every day, and we couldn't
(03:12):
leave them with a teenage Babysitter. They needed someone with with more training, with more experience. We often couldn't leave them alone with the same person. Right? So my ability to get away, my ability to have time alone was really small, and I had to figure out
as an introvert, also right to make it more challenging. What can I do to not lose my ever loving mind because we we got to sometimes in some places where, you know, I was pushed beyond my limit, and I wasn't doing well, mentally or physically, and
(03:45):
realized also that I could not parent from that place. I could not help them co-regulate from that place I wasn't able to show up as the parent they needed me to be, and it wasn't fair to them, and it wasn't fair to me, so I had to figure out.
what can I do when I can't leave the house. I don't have anyone to watch my kids.
The world feels like everything is awful, and I have so little control over changing any of it.
(04:12):
And for me, that came back to things like gratitude and mindfulness.
being aware of what I eat and how that makes my body feel of working on my mindset, and the changes I saw were dramatic and not instant. It took a while right, but it was an UN
doing of very significant, stressful few years. And it it did take some time, but finding community finding people that I could share my challenges with, and then working through them and continuing to do it each day, right? Because this stress builds up each day.
(04:51):
And if you don't do something to kind of empty that stress bucket, you're going to have problems.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:57):
Yeah, so so this is really interesting. I think a lot of people who
are in various places. You know the the thing that I noticed that was very relatable.
and I'm not a mother of autistic children, but you know I run a business, and running a business is all hands on deck, too, and and there's a lot of similarity between not being able to get away from it. And you couldn't get away from it either. And by the time. So you know, you talked about these things, these little things, gratitude, mindfulness, journaling. Taking that time for yourself.
(05:32):
The argument could be also. You could just do that at the end of the day, couldn't you?
You would need to do that to start the day. So is that a good place to start? Or how did that work for you?
Karen Kossow (05:44):
For me. It
it did start at the end of the day, and a lot of it started during covid lockdown.
And the funny thing was, I actually started my business
because I had more free time during Covid to sort of unwind some of the stress and discover some of these mindset shifts, and and how they impacted me
(06:04):
so. And it is very similar. It is all hands on deck all the time, and as a solopreneur while still homeschooling and parenting those 2 wonderful children of mine. It
it's always a juggling act. I hate the word balance with a fiery passion. Right? I will never have balance in my life. It is constant juggling and hoping that I don't drop an important ball like there's no balance, constant juggle.
(06:31):
and what I found was it started at the end of the day
it started with, I'm going to do my gratitude practice. I'm going to write down just 3 things I'm grateful for.
And then I started noticing more things to be grateful for.
and then I started changing it and saying, Our family, it's me, my husband and our 2 kids. I'm going to write down one thing my husband did well today that I appreciated, and it doesn't have to be well, like he unloaded the dishwasher the right way.
(06:57):
You know. My husband went to the grocery store because we were out of corn flakes right? I appreciate that he did that
my oldest child did their homework without complaining. I appreciate that they did that. My younger child went to bed before 11 o'clock. Awesome right, and I started just noticing more things that they were doing
(07:18):
that could bring me gratitude, and that could bring me joy.
so that throughout the day I had those little reminders that it isn't all awful.
We have challenges. Yes, I'm not going to sugarcoat the fact that
we've been through some really rough seasons in our family. But when you start noticing those little things throughout the day.
it makes it so much easier to get through the day. And then I found. Well, I'm a little less stressed. I'm in a better mood. I'm a more pleasant person to be around.
(07:46):
And then something that happens a lot with autistic kids is, they need someone to help co-regulate their nervous system. So as I was more calm and focused and patient and present.
they became more calm and focused. Well, not focused. Adhd is a heck of a drug, but they they became more patient. They became more willing to adapt to the new circumstances that may come up during the day, that before would have thrown them for a loop.
(08:12):
So, as I was being more grateful and noticing more things, there was more things to be grateful for. The kids were doing better. Suddenly I had time to sit down and read a whole chapter of a book while they were having lunch, whereas before I had to sit between them sometimes and and help everyone get through the meal safely, and it just started opening up
(08:37):
everything for me to have more time to have those little pockets throughout the day. That might only be 5 min, but I could fit something in, and that is something that would feed my soul
and work on my
mindset of how challenging things were, so that it didn't feel so challenging. And then eventually it wasn't.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:00):
That's that's really neat, you know. The thing that you know immediately came to me. You're picking all these little things, you know, getting the corn flakes, finishing homework.
Karen Kossow (09:09):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:10):
There was a while ago. I did a series on gratitude, and we we. One of the segments was
sweet, the small stuff, and what I talked about was taking the small stuff and finding the sweetness in them as opposed to. You know the old saying is, sweat the small stuff. But this one was sweet, the small stuff, and that's what you did. And and what was neat about it is that you said when you started appreciating those little things you saw bigger things, maybe that were right behind it. And and it's true, right? If you take something small and bring it into the field of view. It's sort of
(09:44):
opaques everything around it. It blocks out the things around it. The small thing can become big, and it feels like that's what you did for yourself.
I wonder, I wonder?
Let's talk about this. I think that you know you've mentioned your
your 2 autistic children, and how challenging it was for you to to, you know.
(10:07):
Lead them, I think, to a certain degree, and also bring yourself along.
What is it you know? Where did that start for you? I mean, how did you realize that you needed to dig into it as opposed to? I think some people hide from the reality that they they have to face.
Karen Kossow (10:27):
Oh, goodness, oh, there's a lot of layers to that question
it. It was a process, and it was a multi year process. I had an amazing therapist that I was working with, and she for myself, yep, for myself. And the kids were doing their own several different types of therapy at that point, and she really helped me see how some of the things that I experienced as a child and some challenges that I had gone through was really informing the way that I was parenting them, and how
(11:00):
I was doing the best I could under a difficult circumstance and difficult
environment that again we were. I was working to change.
but change was slow, and support was minimal. We we live in Idaho. All of our family and friends are in New York, and the services that are available to families like mine
(11:24):
are
there but difficult to navigate, and also the the rates that they pay support. People to come in to be a help are really abysmal, right? So it's difficult to find and attract people who are supportive. So I was doing a lot of this on my own trying to navigate through my own mental health challenges.
(11:48):
That had come as a result of my pregnancies, which were both unfortunately really really complicated and traumatic. And
to to start, I was trying to process through some of those emotions, and then the therapist
led me down a path of realizing that there is more going on, and that there was a way that
(12:08):
my attitude and my
the way that I chose to show up because it is choice, right? That that's another thing that I really took away from working with her. Was that how we present ourselves when we present ourselves. It's a choice, right? You can show up
as the best parent that you can be on any given day.
(12:28):
and I really hope that everyone does that.
But I also know that making poor choices throughout the day prevents us from doing that right. So if we are choosing to
drink a little bit too much, or take medication. That maybe isn't
But be mindful of how I'm putting that. But if whatever we're putting into our body isn't helping us meet our needs of being the best version of ourself or the best parent available when our kids need us. Looking at where that's coming from, and those self-destructive behaviors that I had quite a few of, and just making a way
(13:07):
through it, because that is the only way that you get out of it is to go through it.
and
you know I didn't have a choice. I couldn't send them to grandma's for the afternoon, or, you know, have a reliable person come, even offer respite, care. You know my husband was working 60 HA week at a high level job.
(13:28):
He was an essential employee throughout the pandemic, like we
were, it was me and discovering that
I was contributing to my own challenges, and that there are ways I could improve. It was life changing.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:43):
Yeah. You know one of the things that I
you talked about choices, right? It was a choice of how you showed up.
and you made some differences, different choices.
And those choices started, started off with the smaller things. Right? We talked a little bit about that.
One of the things that I think is really interesting is that you know
the same things that you talk about
(14:05):
in creating your business, the space to create your business, and during the pandemic also came in the changes that you made as a parent right, and and there I often make
some draw similarities between parenthood and leadership that there's never a day off for leadership you have to.
Success is never owned. It's rented, and the rent is due every day. It's due at the beginning of the day. It's not you, if you, if you want to, you can wait all day to the end of the day and pay the rent, but you know you've kind of lost the day waiting to do it.
(14:38):
So when you made that choice.
you know. What did that look like for you? Was it a Eureka? Was it a slow burn? What did that look like? How did you rewrite that story?
Karen Kossow (14:50):
Oh, I'm very much a Eureka kind of person. And I. My brain just clicks on. And then we're going on a different direction which sometimes is a blessing. Sometimes it's a curse.
and it was the decision to head in a different direction happened instantly.
There were moments building up to it for for several months beforehand, but once I made the decision to
(15:17):
start investing in myself, and to start caring about myself and my own needs again. There was. There was no looking back, and it
was
the impetus for a lot of huge changes in my life. Personally, professionally, as a mother, as a wife and as a community leader, because I went in and started helping build communities for parents of kids that are autistic. I had already had a pretty thriving homeschool community that I had been working to nourish. And it it opened up the whole world to me. And as
(15:51):
we started making those changes.
Everything seemed to get easier.
You know it was never easy, right? We still had a lot of challenges, and there were still things, and I'm still navigating through nonsense every day, which I don't think it ever. At this point I've decided it just doesn't go away right. There is always going to be something, and if you're not doing those daily things to empty out your stress bucket, if you're not taking that care of yourself throughout the day, if you're not paying the rent in the morning.
(16:21):
Eventually it just catches up with you so much that you can't do. Those things that you've decided are important, that you want to do so. One of the big things at the beginning
was that I started waking up early every day.
which was, Oh, my gosh! I'm thinking back to some of the hystericalness of it all, because I would have
(16:44):
between the 2 kids, someone waking me up almost every night for over a decade, and I'm talking multiple times a night. So I was going into this painfully sleep deprived.
and sometimes I wouldn't be able to get one kid down until 11 or 12 at night, and then would have the other one waking up at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, and I still was making the choice every day to start my day
(17:09):
before they were awake, and that became a huge capstone. Even now, 5 years later, if I'm not up before them.
I can't get going. I can't get my day started. I have to do a hard reset in the middle of the day where I go, and either.
you know, get them squared away, get them doing what they need to do, and then I go back and just do a meditation in bed and like wake up again for the day, just to get my brain set because it's incapable of starting and functioning. Well, if I get woken up and have to parent off the jump. So it was deciding that even on that very little sleep I was reclaiming my time and my space and my energy for myself in those moments when and where I could.
(17:52):
and because of our unique situation that had to be while they were sleeping.
and by the end of the day. I had paid rent all day long, and I couldn't muster up the energy or the strength to do much after they went to bed, so it had to be in the morning. But that was the start of everything really clicking into gear for me and getting through a lot of the really big challenges we had.
Govindh Jayaraman (18:19):
You know, it's it's something that strikes me about what you shared
is at the beginning. You said something about being an introvert.
I want to remind you that you're on a podcast. And I also want to remind you that you talked about how one of the big steps that you did was you built these communities, you know, communities for
(18:41):
other mothers that were in the same situation as you.
And and how that nourished you like that was the word you used nourished.
So okay, introvert. You went and built community by presumably talking to a whole bunch of strangers. And that's what nourished you.
Isn't it interesting that when you were doing what you needed for others, it was nourishing.
(19:11):
And you could defy your own, maybe personal, self-imposed restriction.
Karen Kossow (19:19):
Yeah. The thing for me about being an introvert is, I need alone time to recharge and to let my brain do its thing.
I am also really good at cosplaying as an extrovert, which I often do when I'm on a podcast interview for me, those communities were basically mostly built online. There was also some type of in-person Meetup for both of them. But
(19:50):
I have a deep need. And it it's been this way since I was very, very young. To build
communities for people. It's something I'm good at. I think it's something that comes easy to me. It is something that I feel the world needs so much more of for so many reasons for so many people, and that we'd all be a lot better off if we had a little more community in our life as someone who is not religious
(20:17):
it is very difficult to find, especially I live in Idaho in the Us. So it's a very religious area. So if you are trying to find community and you're not religious, it's really, really challenging. And I don't feel like it should be that way. So I've created these spaces, and they have all been built on my children and my children's challenges, right?
(20:41):
The homeschool space that I've created was built because I had an absolutely horrible day with my oldest when he was about 5 trying to get him. I don't know what you do with 5 year olds in kindergarten anymore, but trying to get him to do something, and he would not. And I was so frustrated, and all of the the other spaces online didn't really fit our vibe or our needs. And I said, I'm gonna make a group. And I'm going to find myself some friends. And I did.
(21:11):
And it's been the same thing with the group that I've been working.
building and growing for parents of autistic kids.
and other kids with disabilities.
It just
you need a space. You need a place where people understand you right. And and so few other parents or people in general are going to understand it unless they've lived it. And while
(21:34):
Facebook is not my favorite place these days, sorry for the maniacal giggle.
there was value, you know 10 years ago, in creating these spaces and creating these groups and trying to create these senses of community where
people could could gather right? Because so many of us are. I don't want to say stuck, because I don't like the way that feels. But you kinda are right. You have kids who maybe
(22:02):
you can't even buckle them in a car seat sometimes when they're little who struggle, being around other children who struggle, being with outside of, you know, arm's reach of their caregiver. And you have caregivers who desperately need to know that
is awful, as that feels in the moment that that is normal, for what they're going through, and that there is validation for them in their struggles, and I feel like
(22:30):
a huge part of my work was letting people know that what they're going through is normal. And it's okay. And it's hard.
and that when they're ready to make that shift they can look at it in a different way, and it will
feel easier, and in many ways it will get easier for them.
There will always be challenges that their children go through because of their neurodiversity, because we live in a world that's not really designed for it and isn't always kind or welcoming, but that we can create that reservoir of strength and resilience that we need to get us through it so that we can help get them through it, and hopefully transfer some of our
(23:08):
self-care and self coping mechanisms and skills onto them so that they have them as they go out in the world.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:15):
So I think this is amazing. Right like you had this overwhelm, this sense of overwhelm, this sense of maybe drowning in all of
the emotion, the fatigue, the challenge, the lack of being able to care for yourself.
and in building a community that helped others. You helped yourself, and I believe that when we give to others what we most need.
(23:43):
that's our greatest place of impact. And
it's it feels like you changed your life when you did that? Am I wrong?
Karen Kossow (23:52):
100%, 100%. And
it it changed my outlook, helping others gives me joy to know that I and I used to say this to my therapist all the time
that the challenges that we were going through, and I don't get into specifics. But we we went through a lot of a lot. Just leave it there
(24:14):
that those challenges that we went through and those really hard decisions that we had to make.
that there had to be a purpose, there had to be a reason for it. I am. I am not
one of those people that's like everything happens for a reason.
but you can learn from everything you go through, no matter how horrible it is that there is a
opportunity for learning and growth in even the absolute, most awful situation that you go through.
(24:40):
and if you don't grab onto it, you went through that situation
anyway, right? There's no changing it. But if you look at what you can grow from
after having gone through it, there's an opportunity, and I feel like so many people don't embrace that, and I
(25:00):
feel like that's something I've become quite good at and helping others. It just reinforces the idea that all those challenges and struggles I went through
had a purpose, and now they have a really great outcome for other parents.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:16):
Yeah, you know, I, I and I, and I. I also am struck by this other point that you made that the decision
happen in an instant. I believe that that's what happens. Like there's a i'm I'm
when I was a kid I used to love the comic books, you know, and they had these thought bubbles over people's heads right? And and when you were talking about just the expression on your face and the way you talked about that snap of decision I had like. Egad! Over your head, that's such a comic book. Geek nerd thing! But that's the excitement that I saw from you and and but isn't it true right? Isn't it true that the change does happen that that desire to change hits you hard in a moment?
(25:58):
But what I think most people don't do. But you did, was took a small step right away, like it wasn't a perfect step, but you talked about that. You took a small step right away. Now, is that something you're more deliberate about now, after laying down those breadcrumbs and putting down that road, is it? When you feel that
(26:19):
snap, you take a step. Is that part of it.
Karen Kossow (26:23):
Yeah. And it. It's funny that you asked that I
just started a whole other brand new business that helps parents homeschool using chat gpt
because I had a wild idea, and I sat with it for like 2 or 3 days, and it wouldn't go away, and I talked to my husband, and I said, I don't have time for this. I talked to my accountability partner, and she's like girl. You don't have time for this, and I was like, I can't make it go away. So I built a whole new business in like a month
(26:50):
2 months ago, like, I started this all in February, because it wouldn't go away, and I feel often that divine spark of inspiration. I don't know if you've ever read Elizabeth Gilbert's book big magic.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:03):
Yeah.
Karen Kossow (27:04):
It's that kind of a thing where she talks about. If you don't run with it, the universe is going to go share it with somebody else because it needs to be created. And it needs to happen. And I just look at my life
in that sense of you know, ideas happen a lot. I'm a creative person.
Some of them are meant for me, and if I don't make them happen, who else will.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:27):
Yeah.
Karen Kossow (27:28):
Right, and I owe it to the universe.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:30):
Yeah. And and you know again, I like your other approach about the universe, too, though, because things don't always happen. You know, things that are obstacles don't always happen, because oh, you know, the universe is saying I shouldn't go forward. No, I was saying, try again. You didn't go the right way. And so I'm sure, even though you know, this dropped in for you as an idea it wasn't a slam dunk. It wasn't easy, right.
Karen Kossow (27:55):
No? Well, yes and no. It was a lot of work, and it
was again juggling, so my husband had to help a lot more with homeschool. My house is trashed. I haven't done any of my garden prep work that I normally would do. I didn't go hang out with my mom's group, for you know, about a month or 2 while I was getting this up and running, but it was a conscious choice
(28:20):
that things are going to go a little feral.
because Mom needs to do this for herself, and in the future I think it's going to benefit
not only my family as that business gets up and going, it's going to be mostly hands off, but it will help all the homeschoolers hopefully who use it, because it's a wonderful a wonderful resource that I've created if I do say so myself, but I also have the energy boost from seeing that idea
(28:47):
from inception, creation to fruition, and that
is a huge energy giver for me.
And that's 1 of the things I've just become really aware of how my brain works, how I respond to
managing my energy levels.
and it would have taken more energy and honestly, probably mental time as well if I kept fighting it.
(29:15):
And sometimes you just gotta give in and
you know, we'll see where it goes. And so far it's going well.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:25):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
You! You talked about the power of gratitude for you and I in our community, in the
community of paper napkin wisdom contributors. We had a great friend of the show, John Ruland, who passed away suddenly a few months ago, and his paper napkin, was what you appreciate appreciates.
(29:49):
It was a statement that when you appreciate people
they appreciate and value and do great things because you've done, you've recognized their greatness.
So with that in mind.
Who would you like to appreciate today.
Karen Kossow (30:03):
Oh, goodness!
My kids, you know. Can I do? Can I do both of them?
Govindh Jayaraman (30:09):
You can do as many people as you like.
Karen Kossow (30:11):
They have transformed me into the person that I am today. I firmly believe that as
loving parents it's a feedback loop constantly with, and it starts when they're 1st born, or they 1st come into your life where
they're doing things. You're reacting. They're doing things. You're reacting. And it's a constant feedback loop, and I can say that I am a much better person for having been molded into the parent, that they needed me to be. And I am
(30:39):
continuously impressed with how hard they are working to make their way in a world that isn't always welcoming or kind to them.
and that they are finding who they are, and they are
working through their challenges in ways that are constructive and not destructive anymore. And that
(31:00):
I don't know. It's it's been amazing to watch them grow. And I'm just really excited for
what the future holds for them.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:07):
That's amazing. And I do want to go back to. I think that what's beautiful about what you just shared a lot of beautiful things about what you just shared
was you said that your therapist said the pattern that you were sharing was informing
the way you, parent and the path your children followed. And isn't it interesting that you changed your path and their path
(31:30):
at the same time.
Karen Kossow (31:32):
And that is at the heart of what I work on with my coaching clients, because
so often you can't see the forest for the trees. Everything is hard, everything sucks, everything is miserable, and you can't see a different way out of it, because you're so stuck in it.
and you have to make that choice and take action after you make that choice, to broaden your perception of what's going on, and to open your mindset to the possibility that there is a different way. And it
(32:03):
again. I'm trying to think of a way I can put it without
for one of our children. We were looking at the possibility that they may not be able to continue living in our home
because of the level of challenges that they were having, and
that child is now doing so well, and is so independent and so loving and so kind and so generous
(32:29):
with their actions.
And they're
it's because I didn't give up. And it's because I made a choice that I was going to be what they needed me to be, even though it was really hard, and you know a lot of therapy for everybody, right, and a lot of support from professionals. But we were able to get through it, and I think a huge part of that was because of that feedback loop between us.
(33:00):
And I think a lot of the challenges that parents of autistic kids face is due in part to the fact that they aren't in the feedback loop in the way that their child needs them to be.
and that once you kind of get in alignment with them, that it really opens up for
that relationship to blossom in the way that it
(33:22):
struggles to do so without some intervention.
Govindh Jayaraman (33:26):
That's a beautiful share.
Karen Kossow (33:28):
Thank you.
Govindh Jayaraman (33:28):
Thank you, Karen.
Karen Kossow (33:29):
Thank you.
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