June 12, 2025 • 37 mins
In episode 255 of Paper Napkin Wisdom, we’re joined by the brilliant Seema Dhanoa — a transformational coach, conscious leadership facilitator, and author of the powerful book The Path to Conscious Leadership. Seema’s work is rooted in helping people return to themselves and lead from a place of inner truth. Her napkin might be simple in form, but it holds an entire operating system for alignment, balance, and meaningful presence.
At the center of her napkin is a bright burst of awareness — a foundational concept that Seema explains is the key to unlocking our full capacity as leaders, parents, partners, and humans. What surrounds this awareness is a framework that connects mind, body, heart, and intuition. “When these four domains are in conversation with each other,” she explains, “that’s when true alignment and balance happen — not just in leadership, but in life.”
Her conversation with Govindh Jayaraman explores the dance between the inner state and the outer state. Seema emphasizes that most people attempt to control the outer state — their environment, their outcomes, others’ behavior — while ignoring their inner state. But the truth is, “It’s your inner state that defines how you perceive reality, and ultimately how you shape it.”
Consciousness Begins with Connection
At the top of her napkin, Seema writes: “Consciousness = Mind + Body + Heart + Intuition.” This formula is deceptively simple. In the episode, Seema unpacks how most of us are trained to live in the mind — rewarding logic, problem-solving, and mental stamina. But the wisdom of the heart, the truth-telling of the body, and the subtle signals from our intuition are often overlooked.
“When you ignore parts of your system,” she says, “you create imbalance — and imbalance leads to misalignment and burnout.”
The antidote? Seema encourages leaders to integrate all four domains through consistent practices of self-awareness, presence, and intention. The goal is not perfection — it’s alignment.
Inner Work Is Strategic Work
A key insight from the episode is that our perception creates our reality — not the other way around. Seema shares, “If I shift how I perceive something, I can show up differently. I can make new decisions. I can lead in a new way.” That shift only happens when we tune into our mindsets, our intentions, and stay grounded in the present moment — three elements she lists alongside “awareness” on the napkin.
This is not fluffy or conceptual. As Seema explains, “This is strategy. Your mindset is a strategic asset. So is your ability to stay present.”
Too many entrepreneurs and leaders attempt to operate from force. But Seema invites us to lead from awareness, from a state of conscious choice rather than unconscious reaction.
5 Key Takeaways from Episode 255 with Seema Dhanoa
1. Alignment is an inner process, not an outer one.
“When your mind, body, heart, and intuition are aligned, you don’t have to push — you just move with
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:02):
Seema welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Seema Dhanoa (00:06):
Thank you, Govind. Thank you so much for having me.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
All right. So you shared. And I commented in the green room before we began, that your handwriting is fantastic. So you packed a lot onto this napkin, and that's not normal without it looking sort of jumbled. So you did a really great job of it. And I think we're going to go through it in a little bit of an order. I'm not going to describe the whole napkin to people listening. Certainly.
(00:31):
if you're listening, find it online. Take a look at it because there's a lot there. But we're gonna start off with the top right of your napkin, where you talked about alignment and balance. Why did you start? There.
Seema Dhanoa (00:42):
Yes, so I feel like the napkin that emerged for me. It just reflects kind of my my journey that I had, and one of like, you know, key moments of personal transformation. And there was a period in my life while I was on the West Coast working for a financial institution, and I had 2 Vice President roles. At that time I was vice President of business
(01:08):
and of payments, and that payments area was undergoing like a major technology transformation. At that same time I was doing my executive Mba. And so I found myself like asking the question of like, How do I find balance in my life, because, of course, everything was was quite consumed by work and work life. And that's just all it was. And
(01:34):
and I just I made like a really big mistake. I looked at balance as time. Right? And I think we hear that as leaders of you know how you spend your day, and how you can allocate your time. So I ended up doing that, and I didn't have enough hours in the day, and I did the very bad habit of cutting back on my sleep.
(01:56):
And so for years I did that of like sleeping minimal hours, just to fit everything in and
along that way I ended up ignoring migraines, headaches.
Just sometimes not feeling very well. And then one day it's like I collapsed at work. And it's like I finally said to myself, You know what I think. I think something is wrong, and the funny part is that for 3 years I had all these symptoms, and and I completely ignored you know what what my body was telling me.
(02:33):
And so that's when I really had to take a pause like I had to take a time out from my career, I had to step back and just focus on my health and figure out, you know what was what was actually going on for me, and and I found that, you know I was completely depleted. And so it was just kind of like a significant moment where I knew that in my path, in my journey I had to kind of really think about
(03:02):
what does balance mean to me? What were what were my beliefs.
and and what I discovered was that I had this belief that balance was a factor of time.
and we hear about all these hacks. Life hacks, you know, health hack, and everything is like a hack, and I found myself kind of trapped in this like vicious cycle, because I was trying to race against time, and you know what. Well, when we try to do that, we lose. We can never, we can never win against that. And so I had to take like a real journey of
(03:40):
understanding the meaning of balance like what does it? What does it mean for me? What does it mean for my life.
and that's where kind of the insight came out that I feel balanced when my mind, my heart, my body, and intuition is in harmony, and there's there's alignment, and it doesn't matter what I'm doing whether it's work or, you know, fun, social time, or whatever it is. It's the fact of what I feel in that moment that it feels like there's harmony there between these parts of myself.
(04:14):
because I realized of what I did before, you know, segregated myself, and I was kind of broken, like very strong kind of in the mind. But then it's like, physically, I wasn't doing well, but well, that affects your emotional state, too, but I didn't realize it, because I was in that constant
kind of work. Grind.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:34):
Hmm!
So I don't. Wanna. I don't wanna
rush to just where you left off, because there was a lot there, and and I think a lot of us think about time management as being the source of balance.
and and you discovered that it was more to do with energy. And and there's there's so much there.
But I also want to pick up on this other thing that you talked about, that there were warning signs right. There were warning signs that you had fallen out of balance. Yeah.
Seema Dhanoa (05:01):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:02):
And I like to talk about this. Sometimes it taps you with a toothpick, and then the toothpick gets a little bit better. It's a stick, and then the stick.
Seema Dhanoa (05:08):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:09):
A 2 by 4, and then the 2 by 4 isn't tapping you. It's smacking you in the side of the.
Seema Dhanoa (05:13):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:14):
Right. And that's kind of.
Seema Dhanoa (05:15):
That's right.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:15):
And right, I mean, you collapsed at work.
Seema Dhanoa (05:18):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:20):
For a lot of people. They even ignore that. So why was that your wake up like what happened that made you sit up and say, Oh, something's wrong.
Seema Dhanoa (05:30):
Well look. I remember that day I was meeting with some directors on my team, and I just started feeling ill. So I got up, and I and I walked away. I went. I excused myself, and I went to the restroom, and it's like as soon as I went into the restroom. There was no one that was there, and I, after I collapsed and I came to.
You know I'm lying on the bathroom floor just
(05:52):
thinking like something is wrong with me, and I can't ignore this anymore, because, like, it's like, What if you collapse while you're driving?
Or you know, if you're you know, walking along, trying to, you know, in Vancouver there's a skytrain or something getting on transit walking on the street. I just realized like how that could have been
(06:13):
so bad. The the result of that could have been, you know, injury or something worse, and I felt like
my body stopped me and said, no.
that you've been ignoring the body for so long. So now the body was just like, you know, it's done.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:29):
Yeah, well, thankfully, it wasn't worse than it was. I mean, I.
Seema Dhanoa (06:33):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:34):
Stories of people collapsing in a in a bathroom. And it, you know, you hit your head. Yeah.
Seema Dhanoa (06:39):
Hit your head. Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:40):
Terrible. So thankfully it wasn't worse. And thankfully you're smiling and thinking that there's a funny part in it. You said the funny part is.
yeah.
Find the humor in it.
Seema Dhanoa (06:50):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like there's many like signs along the way, like, you know, it's just like with the headaches and the migraines and the funny. The funny part was like I had this assessment. So I even went and got this health assessment. That was part of you know, when you're when you have these executive benefits. And so I met with a team there and then. I even spoke with a psychologist there and said.
(07:13):
that said to me, you know you're going to be stepping into doing your executive, Mba. You're already such a busy person. You're having headaches. How are you going to get through this, and I ignored it. Then.
in speaking to a professional, I ignored it. And what I started to do was these like coping habits? You know I am a fairly. I've always been a very healthy person like eating really well, but it's like in the afternoon, I would, you know, try to eat foods that were like pick me ups. But you know sometimes it was like berries, you know, like that rush of sugar with some like nuts. Grab another green tea, and it's like I'd come home, and then I would work out at night. You feel the endorphins, and I'd be like, Oh, my gosh! I feel great, I feel wonderful.
(07:53):
and I was masking it with these other habits, which are good things to do. But the thing was, it was this cycle that was that I was on, and I was in denial about that. I'm not able to handle this. There's there's too much on my plate, and I was unable to say no.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:10):
Yeah. So you're almost like trying to
some people medicate in an in a negative way. You were medicating with self-care, which was.
Seema Dhanoa (08:18):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:19):
Least positive, but not, it was just masking. So one of the other things that sometimes when people have something happen to them and they get that hit that you know the 2 by 4 hits them in the side of the head like it happened for you when you collapsed at work did you immediately like? Have this moment where all these signs came back to you? And you remembered? It's like this, must be it. This is it. This was, this is what's wrong. Did you have that Eureka?
Seema Dhanoa (08:46):
I did. I did. It was like a wave, because it's like I was probably lying there for like a few seconds. Then I just kind of got up and sat up. And it is just like this kind of flashback happened of like all these like years, these years of like working and being living that way. And
(09:06):
and it it's just like, and I'm like, I've had so many headaches. I've had so many migraines, and I'm like this is not normal, and it was. It was just like a moment of like real honesty with myself.
And you know what I think, for I think for myself like that's what made it such a powerful moment, because for all those years I wasn't listening to my intuition, I wasn't listening to the signals from my body, and it's like, you know, kind of the wave of memories came. And I'm like, you know, it's all there, right in front of me. I have to accept where I am, and I put myself here.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:41):
So taking responsibilities can sometimes feel overwhelming in of itself. So you're already overwhelmed. And now you're realizing. Oh, my gosh, I've got all this stuff?
Yeah, got to change. So how do you take that overwhelm and turn it into
an action because you did something with it which was different, that you just sort of like.
persisted previous to that. But this time you did something.
(10:04):
Yeah, how did you turn this into action? And I think that's the second part of your napkin right.
Seema Dhanoa (10:08):
That's right. So the thing the thing that I did was like I I knew that there was something there that made me believe that I had to work and be this way. So I had to uncover what those deep beliefs were like. How like? Why was IA workaholic? Why, why was I
(10:29):
kind of running my life in this way? And I knew that it was going to take that reflective time like sometimes I find that we don't ask ourselves deep questions, and we have to challenge ourselves. We have to challenge our thinking to uncover where some of these things come from that influence our behavior and actions. And so when I asked myself the question, and I got out a notebook and I got out a pen
(10:53):
because I wanted to write down the 1st thing that came to me, so I asked myself, Why did you do that to yourself? And then it just came out very naturally that I had this deep belief that I have to work hard, and that I can create results and success if I work very, very hard.
and
the other part of that was kind of the external environment, and I think I did fairly well in my career from a very young age. So I was always the youngest leader in the room. And yeah, sometimes I would face that bias right where there's ageism. And people think that. Oh, because you're young, or you look young that you're not that experienced. Then there's also the times where, you know, in the financial industry. I was also working in technology with. So with a lot of men, and sometimes not with very, very many other women. And so you just kind of feel like you got to prove yourself.
(11:41):
So there's the 2 pieces there, the 2 deep-seated beliefs I have to work hard, and I have to prove myself.
And that's where the insight emerged for me that
it was how I was perceiving, like these beliefs come from my inner state.
(12:02):
and that inner state of myself was reflecting into the outer world. So all the experience outside of myself, that's what I was focusing on. So you know what it is a good. I think it's great, you know, work ethic to want to, you know, work hard and be passionate, and all of that. But then I was. I was taking that
too hard. It was too intense, and combining that with kind of some of the bias. And these things, and whatever in the environment. And that's what I was focusing on, I let that become my reality.
(12:33):
I chose to focus there.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:36):
Yeah. So isn't it neat that we see the world as we are? Not as it is right. And and you saw you saw
I have to work hard. I have to prove myself. I have to work hard. I have to prove myself, and you made the world around you sort of fit that
perception that you had, didn't you.
Seema Dhanoa (12:54):
That's exactly it.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:56):
Right.
Seema Dhanoa (12:56):
That that's exactly it. And it was such a powerful moment to realize that
to realize the world that we see is a result of our deep beliefs and how we choose to perceive it. Yeah, there's some parts that happen in the unconscious parts of our mind, and that's just how the brain works. But it's where we decide to focus and put our attention. Now, we can observe bias and these sorts of things in the environment. But we have to learn to be, I think, in a place of where we're observing it, and not where you latch on
(13:29):
to say a certain idea, and that ends up manifesting and becoming something.
So it was just kind of a really big moment where I'm like. This is so critical for the rest of my life, knowing the relationship that I have with my inner self, right the inner state and the outer world. However, I feel on the inside, and whatever I believe that is the world that will become.
(13:53):
and that whatever the world that becomes and we act upon it.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:56):
So I think it was really profound. So the 1st step was, you know, your desire to find balance. Unfortunately it came at the
as the result of an event. Right? So you're
you know I have this visual. You're lying there sort of sitting up in the bathroom floor going? Oh, my gosh, I've got to do something, and you're realizing that you've got to make this change. You become conscious of this connection between your mind, body, heart, intuition. And
(14:21):
then you ask this deep question, you did you judge this?
Did you judge work as a bad thing to ask the question? Or were you just curious like, where did this come from? And
how did you give yourself the permission to ask yourself that question so openly.
Seema Dhanoa (14:39):
I.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:40):
Sometimes we do this negatively, right? We say, like, why am I such a workaholic? And it leads us down, possibly not an open path, not a curious path.
Seema Dhanoa (14:48):
Yeah, I, yeah. So it's like, I'm like, I did have that awareness of, like, how I want to ask that question, because the other thing was like, I've been really proud of my career, right? Like, I know that I've created amazing results. That's helped communities that's helped people. So ultimately, that is, that's been the desire behind my career. And so that's why I had to ask the question like like, why I turned out to be like this workaholic, and what I also unpacked and found there is that
(15:17):
you know what it is that I truly want to do, and that is to be in service of me, humanity, to make this world better. And it was a sort of feeling of all this work that needs to be done in the world and all this potential out there that we can be better, that that's what I'm striving for. So it's almost as if it's like I understood, kind of. I had to pull out that intention.
(15:40):
I had to pull out that intention, but it's like my mindset.
and those deep beliefs and my actions didn't match, so that created that sort of friction where I became misaligned in my path.
But yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:56):
So how did you? How did you? I think there's a lot there, and I think you became aware of this. And when you became aware of this distance, this difference, this lack of alignment.
How did you find alignment? How did you build alignment? What did that look like? Because that can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people.
Seema Dhanoa (16:15):
It is.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:16):
And and for a lot of people, it can also be really disassociating. And here's what I mean by that. You had success.
Seema Dhanoa (16:23):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:23):
You had for all intents and purposes you had 2 Vp roles at a very young age.
Yeah, in the financial world, which is.
Seema Dhanoa (16:32):
Again. It's.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:33):
Place for anyone to get in, let alone a young woman. So.
Seema Dhanoa (16:36):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:37):
Young woman. You've made 2 Vp. Roles at financial institutions, check check lots of good.
Seema Dhanoa (16:43):
Thanks.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:43):
Going on.
But wait a minute. I'm out of alignment. Those 2 ideas may not sync up. How did you resolve that? And there's another point that you made, and I think it's part of the same answer.
You didn't say subconscious, you said unconscious, and
that says to me that you did some work on understanding that your unconscious mind isn't subservient to your conscious mind. It just works with it in a different way. So I think there's something that you've you know.
(17:10):
You left me a little bit of a hint.
Seema Dhanoa (17:12):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (17:13):
But fill in the blanks. Please.
Seema Dhanoa (17:15):
Yes, so so what I had to do 1st was like, I told myself, like I need to step back. But that stepping back was, was
looking at my life from like an eagle's perspective, being able to soar above and look at my life and the direction that I was going in, and that's where that's where the crossroad came up. The question came up of, you know what is my purpose is is my is my intent that I just want to get into the C-suite.
(17:52):
And the thing is, when you're in the corporate world, you get kind of programmed to just keep climbing the ladder.
So I and so that's what I had to recognize like, was my desire, my intent that I want to be in the C-suite? Or is it that I'm trying to create impact and change, because that's something that I love to do. And I realized that
(18:15):
I wasn't meant to be in the C-suite. What I was meant to do was to discover the next part of my life that was calling me. That was saying, you need to help leaders. You need to help leaders find this new way of leading. You need to what everything that I understood about consciousness and going through my own personal transformation was calling me to another part of my future.
(18:42):
and which was to create this book on conscious leadership. And so that's where now, uncovering all of that, when we, you know sometimes it's scary about what's the purpose of my life. And what am I meant to do? And I think it's all these lessons and learnings that we have along the way that create these kind of breadcrumbs. But what I observed with myself was that
(19:04):
there was this unconscious element. Whatever environments we're in whenever we are kind of running on autopilot that we we drop out of awareness.
And that was kind of what I really learned during that time. Is that because I was on this big cycle like this treadmill that never stopped? Go, go, go, go! And your mind is constantly running. Lots of leaders. Lots of people live their life like this. They're so busy, so busy. Got to pick up the kids. Got to do this. Got to make dinner. Oh, I got to take the dog for a walk. You're constantly running around, and
(19:39):
what I saw was as soon as I was forced to become quiet as soon as I was forced to find stillness as soon as I was forced to find inner peace and balance again.
that is, when I realized that there was times where I lacked awareness, and I was letting kind of these unconscious habits, this habitual thinking, and all these things that my brain has learned to do to do? Just run on on autopilot. And it was this intentionalness that was missing. Of. What am I doing? Why am I doing it? How am I living? How am I spending my day that was lacking.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:20):
So. So what you did was sort of turn away from these habits that you'd built.
Yes, in in climbing the corporate ladder.
Seema Dhanoa (20:30):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:30):
And replace them with a new set. Right? Yes, a new set of habits. Now.
what changed for you when you sort of moved into this place that was more aligned
like, yeah, did did you start working hard again?
Seema Dhanoa (20:53):
So. I feel like what I did was by finding kind of this like balance with myself, and finding kind of the calling of like my book, I felt
I felt whole, and the reason why I felt whole was that I was listening to my intuition, and I find that, you know in life, when we ignore our inner voice, not sometimes that narrator voice in the mind, but that deep inner voice. When we ignore it, we start chipping parts of ourself away.
(21:24):
So I felt like all of these parts of myself, had come back.
and I felt whole, and it was about establishing new habits. You know I've always been big into healthy eating, big into wellness, and all of that, and what I committed to myself was not to put myself in that place again, that I have to establish these boundaries. I have to establish new habits, and part of my.
(21:50):
The trap that would have fallen into was the nighttime trap. It's like, Oh, why don't I do some work now and get ahead tomorrow? And I decided to replace those habits with things that I enjoy like reading the economist, you know, sitting down and watching a good show, you know, going for a walk, or going for a run, or whatever it is. But replacing that habit with something that allows me to feel presence allows me to just do something that I want to do versus what I'm forcing myself to do.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:20):
And you know, understanding the difference between those 2 things can be pretty tricky@firstst
Seema Dhanoa (22:27):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:29):
Because I think sometimes we feel oh, well, I'm forcing myself
to is for some people making healthy choices is forcing themselves right for some people. It's forcing themselves to go for a walk or go for a hike.
And and and for other people, work comes easier
(22:50):
because they're good at it. It makes them feel good. Right? Yeah. But one way to think about it is is these is is like you said you talk about this mindsets. And and and so one of the a long time ago
someone gave me a napkin, and I, and it was the myth of time, management, and.
Seema Dhanoa (23:09):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:09):
About how it's really about energy management. And in his model there were essentially 4 different buckets. Right? There's a spiritual, physical, mental, and emotional bucket. And you're talking about that.
Seema Dhanoa (23:23):
Very similar.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:24):
Own way between mind, body, heart, and intuition. Right? So going back to those things is what helped you. Is that? Is that correct?
Seema Dhanoa (23:31):
That is correct.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:33):
Right. So how do you regulate that today? How does that work for you today?
Seema Dhanoa (23:38):
So I think that you know I look at my life and what happened, and I think some of those.
some of those things that those events that happened were really profound moments of learning right? So when we have those profound moments of learning, I believe, like it happens for a reason. And so what I think that the journey that I've been on is really about living like a conscious life, being aware of, you know, just as that other individual put it like the spiritual like, which is similar to like. What I'm what I'm saying is that that is, that is what's important to me, and my life has to be
(24:13):
that way of being that way of living. And it's not about scheduling things in. And so I feel like this is where like a major shift comes in that came from myself. But I feel like this happens for people when you're not scheduling in, you know, meditation as an activity, or you know, I'm going to do a run. At this time. I think it is a profound shift in understanding that our being
(24:41):
and our way of living is what is most important, and when we feel that sort of harmony with
our emotions that we are whole, our mind, our body feels great. We're taking care of our spiritual self. Anything that we do will be in alignment. Your work will be in alignment, your family time will be in alignment, because you yourself are in that state of balance. So I feel like in my life, and what I do like. I'm really aware of
(25:08):
of my day like I start my day with meditation. I set an intention for my day, and that intention helps me to keep in mind, like what is the way of being that I want for the day. So I'm not setting the like. For example, even if I look at the week like I'm not setting goals. I got to get this done. That done, and that it's my intention is about you know what I'm looking to fill for the week, and sometimes like I've said to myself, you know my intention for the week is just to be in the state of flow.
(25:37):
That's it. That was my intention stayed afloat because I knew that I was in a busy period with my book, and that's all I wanted to be was inflow.
And so I found that to be a really helpful practice. And then the other practice that I established, which I also wrote about my book and I tell people to do is that I check in with myself often
(25:58):
like I check in with myself every single day. I ask myself, how am I doing? You know what's going on for you. And I find that we don't do this simple thing. And instead, what we have is sometimes stress. And all these things start to build up in the background. And it's only when we snap or have some sort of moment where we realize that we are actually stressed out.
(26:19):
And so I find it's a very simple practice, takes a couple seconds to just check in with yourself and ask, How are you doing? How am I doing? How do I feel.
Govindh Jayaraman (26:28):
So some somewhere there's someone listening, and they're
running a small or growing business. They may be a solo
or small entrepreneur, and they're running 12 h days, and they feel like they have to. They don't have an option right now, and they're listening to this and saying.
check in with myself. I don't have time to check in with myself. I have barely time to do anything.
(26:53):
so they're on this time. They're on the time.
Seema Dhanoa (26:57):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (26:57):
The treadmill right now, where they're trading time for everything.
What would you say to that person? What's what's 1 quick way that they can start checking in with themselves and transforming their habits.
Seema Dhanoa (27:10):
I think it's as simple as taking a pause, taking a pause in the day. Right? If you are working 12 h days like having a break
a 5 min. Break a 10 min, break, just walking away with what you're doing. Go outside, get some fresh air, and just ask yourself like, how am I doing sometimes if you ask yourself how, how I'm doing? And you say to yourself, Well.
(27:33):
you know, I'm really stressed out. There's a lot going on. I'm in it on my own. This is really hard. Life is tough.
It's so important to bring awareness to those things. Then it's like, okay. You know, I'm bringing awareness to what's happening here. This is what's going on for me. This is not going to be permanent. This is something that I'm going to be able to to like work through. So it is
(27:56):
when we don't self inquire. We're hiding what's there. But when we ask ourselves how we are doing, and we bring awareness to it. It starts to break that treadmill pattern. It starts to like shatter it. And that would be just the very simple thing to do.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:14):
Yeah, I think that's really. I mean, there's a lot there to just noticing it and bringing some awareness to it. And that's, I think
that that we solve things that we notice, we yes.
things we don't notice, and if you allow yourself to fake or hide from the truth that's going on.
it will perpetuate until it gets worse, but if you notice it, you call attention to it, you acknowledge it.
(28:40):
Your unconscious also conspires to find a way to improve it, too, doesn't it?
Seema Dhanoa (28:45):
That's right. That is, that is the most powerful thing that we can do.
Whatever we notice is what ends up being. That's what ends up being in in kind of our world. And so I and I think that sometimes people forget that our attention is so powerful, like our attention commands all these resources in our brain. And so, even when you start noticing it, and you start noticing it. And you and you know you're starting, it's coming up for you now, often, that usually is what helps people to then be like, you know what? Maybe I'm going to do something a little bit different today.
(29:19):
Maybe I'm not going to work till 7 pm. I'm going to stop at 5 30.
It it just takes that. It just takes those small moments that eventually lead to some form of recognition, and then a change in behavior.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:34):
And there's a there's a power of something else that you
are are sort of talking about, something that I like to talk about, that a mentor once taught me is the power of while.
and while you're doing something you do something else. So while you go for a walk, while you get some fresh air, you bring some awareness to this.
Seema Dhanoa (29:53):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:54):
On yourself.
Seema Dhanoa (29:55):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:55):
Energy is a real high roi.
Seema Dhanoa (29:59):
Perfect.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:59):
Around doing things that fill up more than one bucket at a time. Going back to those bucket things.
You're talking about the same kind of intention here, right.
Seema Dhanoa (30:08):
That's right, that's right. And you know, I think the the greatest.
you know, if we're talking about time, like all of those moments, are an investment in yourself.
like you're investing in yourself. You're you're making yourself heal. You're making yourself whole.
and that is very profound and powerful. And you do that for little bits every day. Little bits these like micro little bits, and eventually it adds up into something substantial.
(30:36):
And so I you know, I'm a big believer in going outside. I'm a big believer in going out into nature. I spend a lot of time in nature, and that is where some somewhere where I did. All of that kind of, you know, deep thinking and uncovering, because sometimes we got to change our environment. Our physical environment makes our certain habits come out.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:59):
You know we.
Seema Dhanoa (30:59):
It just comes on automatic. So it's very important to get into a different environment like going for a walk, stepping outside, get out of your workplace, your work zone so that you can. You can have a moment to be to be spending some very, very powerful time with yourself.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:18):
That's great.
As a shout out to a previous paper, napkin wisdom, guest, we've been asking every guest to appreciate something. So John Ruland was on the Podcast about 11 years ago, and he shared with us a very important paper napkin, which was what you appreciate, appreciates. And he started a movement around that became a bestselling book and a second book that's come out
(31:44):
post. His. His passing giftology was the 1st book.
In any event. John passed away suddenly last year, and we've been asking all our guests this year to shout out something to pay pay some appreciation forward into the universe, because what we appreciate does appreciate. So
who would you like to shout out today.
Seema Dhanoa (32:06):
I would like to shout out my partner, Steve, so he has been
so supportive of my path. And by my side he's actually kind of the 1st person I've met like in terms of a partner that supports me 100 about what I'm doing with my life and what I'm doing with my work and my career, and that. And that means that means a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:29):
Yeah, it certainly goes a long way, doesn't it?
Seema Dhanoa (32:32):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:33):
All right. Thank you so much, seema. I appreciate you coming to share your story with us.
Seema Dhanoa (32:37):
Thank you for having me.
Seema welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Seema Dhanoa (00:06):
Thank you, Govind. Thank you so much for having me.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
All right. So you shared. And I commented in the green room before we began, that your handwriting is fantastic. So you packed a lot onto this napkin, and that's not normal without it looking sort of jumbled. So you did a really great job of it. And I think we're going to go through it in a little bit of an order. I'm not going to describe the whole napkin to people listening. Certainly.
(00:31):
if you're listening, find it online. Take a look at it because there's a lot there. But we're gonna start off with the top right of your napkin, where you talked about alignment and balance. Why did you start? There.
Seema Dhanoa (00:42):
Yes, so I feel like the napkin that emerged for me. It just reflects kind of my my journey that I had, and one of like, you know, key moments of personal transformation. And there was a period in my life while I was on the West Coast working for a financial institution, and I had 2 Vice President roles. At that time I was vice President of business
(01:08):
and of payments, and that payments area was undergoing like a major technology transformation. At that same time I was doing my executive Mba. And so I found myself like asking the question of like, How do I find balance in my life, because, of course, everything was was quite consumed by work and work life. And that's just all it was. And
(01:34):
and I just I made like a really big mistake. I looked at balance as time. Right? And I think we hear that as leaders of you know how you spend your day, and how you can allocate your time. So I ended up doing that, and I didn't have enough hours in the day, and I did the very bad habit of cutting back on my sleep.
(01:56):
And so for years I did that of like sleeping minimal hours, just to fit everything in and
along that way I ended up ignoring migraines, headaches.
Just sometimes not feeling very well. And then one day it's like I collapsed at work. And it's like I finally said to myself, You know what I think. I think something is wrong, and the funny part is that for 3 years I had all these symptoms, and and I completely ignored you know what what my body was telling me.
(02:33):
And so that's when I really had to take a pause like I had to take a time out from my career, I had to step back and just focus on my health and figure out, you know what was what was actually going on for me, and and I found that, you know I was completely depleted. And so it was just kind of like a significant moment where I knew that in my path, in my journey I had to kind of really think about
(03:02):
what does balance mean to me? What were what were my beliefs.
and and what I discovered was that I had this belief that balance was a factor of time.
and we hear about all these hacks. Life hacks, you know, health hack, and everything is like a hack, and I found myself kind of trapped in this like vicious cycle, because I was trying to race against time, and you know what. Well, when we try to do that, we lose. We can never, we can never win against that. And so I had to take like a real journey of
(03:40):
understanding the meaning of balance like what does it? What does it mean for me? What does it mean for my life.
and that's where kind of the insight came out that I feel balanced when my mind, my heart, my body, and intuition is in harmony, and there's there's alignment, and it doesn't matter what I'm doing whether it's work or, you know, fun, social time, or whatever it is. It's the fact of what I feel in that moment that it feels like there's harmony there between these parts of myself.
(04:14):
because I realized of what I did before, you know, segregated myself, and I was kind of broken, like very strong kind of in the mind. But then it's like, physically, I wasn't doing well, but well, that affects your emotional state, too, but I didn't realize it, because I was in that constant
kind of work. Grind.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:34):
Hmm!
So I don't. Wanna. I don't wanna
rush to just where you left off, because there was a lot there, and and I think a lot of us think about time management as being the source of balance.
and and you discovered that it was more to do with energy. And and there's there's so much there.
But I also want to pick up on this other thing that you talked about, that there were warning signs right. There were warning signs that you had fallen out of balance. Yeah.
Seema Dhanoa (05:01):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:02):
And I like to talk about this. Sometimes it taps you with a toothpick, and then the toothpick gets a little bit better. It's a stick, and then the stick.
Seema Dhanoa (05:08):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:09):
A 2 by 4, and then the 2 by 4 isn't tapping you. It's smacking you in the side of the.
Seema Dhanoa (05:13):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:14):
Right. And that's kind of.
Seema Dhanoa (05:15):
That's right.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:15):
And right, I mean, you collapsed at work.
Seema Dhanoa (05:18):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:20):
For a lot of people. They even ignore that. So why was that your wake up like what happened that made you sit up and say, Oh, something's wrong.
Seema Dhanoa (05:30):
Well look. I remember that day I was meeting with some directors on my team, and I just started feeling ill. So I got up, and I and I walked away. I went. I excused myself, and I went to the restroom, and it's like as soon as I went into the restroom. There was no one that was there, and I, after I collapsed and I came to.
You know I'm lying on the bathroom floor just
(05:52):
thinking like something is wrong with me, and I can't ignore this anymore, because, like, it's like, What if you collapse while you're driving?
Or you know, if you're you know, walking along, trying to, you know, in Vancouver there's a skytrain or something getting on transit walking on the street. I just realized like how that could have been
(06:13):
so bad. The the result of that could have been, you know, injury or something worse, and I felt like
my body stopped me and said, no.
that you've been ignoring the body for so long. So now the body was just like, you know, it's done.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:29):
Yeah, well, thankfully, it wasn't worse than it was. I mean, I.
Seema Dhanoa (06:33):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:34):
Stories of people collapsing in a in a bathroom. And it, you know, you hit your head. Yeah.
Seema Dhanoa (06:39):
Hit your head. Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:40):
Terrible. So thankfully it wasn't worse. And thankfully you're smiling and thinking that there's a funny part in it. You said the funny part is.
yeah.
Find the humor in it.
Seema Dhanoa (06:50):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like there's many like signs along the way, like, you know, it's just like with the headaches and the migraines and the funny. The funny part was like I had this assessment. So I even went and got this health assessment. That was part of you know, when you're when you have these executive benefits. And so I met with a team there and then. I even spoke with a psychologist there and said.
(07:13):
that said to me, you know you're going to be stepping into doing your executive, Mba. You're already such a busy person. You're having headaches. How are you going to get through this, and I ignored it. Then.
in speaking to a professional, I ignored it. And what I started to do was these like coping habits? You know I am a fairly. I've always been a very healthy person like eating really well, but it's like in the afternoon, I would, you know, try to eat foods that were like pick me ups. But you know sometimes it was like berries, you know, like that rush of sugar with some like nuts. Grab another green tea, and it's like I'd come home, and then I would work out at night. You feel the endorphins, and I'd be like, Oh, my gosh! I feel great, I feel wonderful.
(07:53):
and I was masking it with these other habits, which are good things to do. But the thing was, it was this cycle that was that I was on, and I was in denial about that. I'm not able to handle this. There's there's too much on my plate, and I was unable to say no.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:10):
Yeah. So you're almost like trying to
some people medicate in an in a negative way. You were medicating with self-care, which was.
Seema Dhanoa (08:18):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:19):
Least positive, but not, it was just masking. So one of the other things that sometimes when people have something happen to them and they get that hit that you know the 2 by 4 hits them in the side of the head like it happened for you when you collapsed at work did you immediately like? Have this moment where all these signs came back to you? And you remembered? It's like this, must be it. This is it. This was, this is what's wrong. Did you have that Eureka?
Seema Dhanoa (08:46):
I did. I did. It was like a wave, because it's like I was probably lying there for like a few seconds. Then I just kind of got up and sat up. And it is just like this kind of flashback happened of like all these like years, these years of like working and being living that way. And
(09:06):
and it it's just like, and I'm like, I've had so many headaches. I've had so many migraines, and I'm like this is not normal, and it was. It was just like a moment of like real honesty with myself.
And you know what I think, for I think for myself like that's what made it such a powerful moment, because for all those years I wasn't listening to my intuition, I wasn't listening to the signals from my body, and it's like, you know, kind of the wave of memories came. And I'm like, you know, it's all there, right in front of me. I have to accept where I am, and I put myself here.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:41):
So taking responsibilities can sometimes feel overwhelming in of itself. So you're already overwhelmed. And now you're realizing. Oh, my gosh, I've got all this stuff?
Yeah, got to change. So how do you take that overwhelm and turn it into
an action because you did something with it which was different, that you just sort of like.
persisted previous to that. But this time you did something.
(10:04):
Yeah, how did you turn this into action? And I think that's the second part of your napkin right.
Seema Dhanoa (10:08):
That's right. So the thing the thing that I did was like I I knew that there was something there that made me believe that I had to work and be this way. So I had to uncover what those deep beliefs were like. How like? Why was IA workaholic? Why, why was I
(10:29):
kind of running my life in this way? And I knew that it was going to take that reflective time like sometimes I find that we don't ask ourselves deep questions, and we have to challenge ourselves. We have to challenge our thinking to uncover where some of these things come from that influence our behavior and actions. And so when I asked myself the question, and I got out a notebook and I got out a pen
(10:53):
because I wanted to write down the 1st thing that came to me, so I asked myself, Why did you do that to yourself? And then it just came out very naturally that I had this deep belief that I have to work hard, and that I can create results and success if I work very, very hard.
and
the other part of that was kind of the external environment, and I think I did fairly well in my career from a very young age. So I was always the youngest leader in the room. And yeah, sometimes I would face that bias right where there's ageism. And people think that. Oh, because you're young, or you look young that you're not that experienced. Then there's also the times where, you know, in the financial industry. I was also working in technology with. So with a lot of men, and sometimes not with very, very many other women. And so you just kind of feel like you got to prove yourself.
(11:41):
So there's the 2 pieces there, the 2 deep-seated beliefs I have to work hard, and I have to prove myself.
And that's where the insight emerged for me that
it was how I was perceiving, like these beliefs come from my inner state.
(12:02):
and that inner state of myself was reflecting into the outer world. So all the experience outside of myself, that's what I was focusing on. So you know what it is a good. I think it's great, you know, work ethic to want to, you know, work hard and be passionate, and all of that. But then I was. I was taking that
too hard. It was too intense, and combining that with kind of some of the bias. And these things, and whatever in the environment. And that's what I was focusing on, I let that become my reality.
(12:33):
I chose to focus there.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:36):
Yeah. So isn't it neat that we see the world as we are? Not as it is right. And and you saw you saw
I have to work hard. I have to prove myself. I have to work hard. I have to prove myself, and you made the world around you sort of fit that
perception that you had, didn't you.
Seema Dhanoa (12:54):
That's exactly it.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:56):
Right.
Seema Dhanoa (12:56):
That that's exactly it. And it was such a powerful moment to realize that
to realize the world that we see is a result of our deep beliefs and how we choose to perceive it. Yeah, there's some parts that happen in the unconscious parts of our mind, and that's just how the brain works. But it's where we decide to focus and put our attention. Now, we can observe bias and these sorts of things in the environment. But we have to learn to be, I think, in a place of where we're observing it, and not where you latch on
(13:29):
to say a certain idea, and that ends up manifesting and becoming something.
So it was just kind of a really big moment where I'm like. This is so critical for the rest of my life, knowing the relationship that I have with my inner self, right the inner state and the outer world. However, I feel on the inside, and whatever I believe that is the world that will become.
(13:53):
and that whatever the world that becomes and we act upon it.
Govindh Jayaraman (13:56):
So I think it was really profound. So the 1st step was, you know, your desire to find balance. Unfortunately it came at the
as the result of an event. Right? So you're
you know I have this visual. You're lying there sort of sitting up in the bathroom floor going? Oh, my gosh, I've got to do something, and you're realizing that you've got to make this change. You become conscious of this connection between your mind, body, heart, intuition. And
(14:21):
then you ask this deep question, you did you judge this?
Did you judge work as a bad thing to ask the question? Or were you just curious like, where did this come from? And
how did you give yourself the permission to ask yourself that question so openly.
Seema Dhanoa (14:39):
I.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:40):
Sometimes we do this negatively, right? We say, like, why am I such a workaholic? And it leads us down, possibly not an open path, not a curious path.
Seema Dhanoa (14:48):
Yeah, I, yeah. So it's like, I'm like, I did have that awareness of, like, how I want to ask that question, because the other thing was like, I've been really proud of my career, right? Like, I know that I've created amazing results. That's helped communities that's helped people. So ultimately, that is, that's been the desire behind my career. And so that's why I had to ask the question like like, why I turned out to be like this workaholic, and what I also unpacked and found there is that
(15:17):
you know what it is that I truly want to do, and that is to be in service of me, humanity, to make this world better. And it was a sort of feeling of all this work that needs to be done in the world and all this potential out there that we can be better, that that's what I'm striving for. So it's almost as if it's like I understood, kind of. I had to pull out that intention.
(15:40):
I had to pull out that intention, but it's like my mindset.
and those deep beliefs and my actions didn't match, so that created that sort of friction where I became misaligned in my path.
But yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (15:56):
So how did you? How did you? I think there's a lot there, and I think you became aware of this. And when you became aware of this distance, this difference, this lack of alignment.
How did you find alignment? How did you build alignment? What did that look like? Because that can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people.
Seema Dhanoa (16:15):
It is.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:16):
And and for a lot of people, it can also be really disassociating. And here's what I mean by that. You had success.
Seema Dhanoa (16:23):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:23):
You had for all intents and purposes you had 2 Vp roles at a very young age.
Yeah, in the financial world, which is.
Seema Dhanoa (16:32):
Again. It's.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:33):
Place for anyone to get in, let alone a young woman. So.
Seema Dhanoa (16:36):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:37):
Young woman. You've made 2 Vp. Roles at financial institutions, check check lots of good.
Seema Dhanoa (16:43):
Thanks.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:43):
Going on.
But wait a minute. I'm out of alignment. Those 2 ideas may not sync up. How did you resolve that? And there's another point that you made, and I think it's part of the same answer.
You didn't say subconscious, you said unconscious, and
that says to me that you did some work on understanding that your unconscious mind isn't subservient to your conscious mind. It just works with it in a different way. So I think there's something that you've you know.
(17:10):
You left me a little bit of a hint.
Seema Dhanoa (17:12):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (17:13):
But fill in the blanks. Please.
Seema Dhanoa (17:15):
Yes, so so what I had to do 1st was like, I told myself, like I need to step back. But that stepping back was, was
looking at my life from like an eagle's perspective, being able to soar above and look at my life and the direction that I was going in, and that's where that's where the crossroad came up. The question came up of, you know what is my purpose is is my is my intent that I just want to get into the C-suite.
(17:52):
And the thing is, when you're in the corporate world, you get kind of programmed to just keep climbing the ladder.
So I and so that's what I had to recognize like, was my desire, my intent that I want to be in the C-suite? Or is it that I'm trying to create impact and change, because that's something that I love to do. And I realized that
(18:15):
I wasn't meant to be in the C-suite. What I was meant to do was to discover the next part of my life that was calling me. That was saying, you need to help leaders. You need to help leaders find this new way of leading. You need to what everything that I understood about consciousness and going through my own personal transformation was calling me to another part of my future.
(18:42):
and which was to create this book on conscious leadership. And so that's where now, uncovering all of that, when we, you know sometimes it's scary about what's the purpose of my life. And what am I meant to do? And I think it's all these lessons and learnings that we have along the way that create these kind of breadcrumbs. But what I observed with myself was that
(19:04):
there was this unconscious element. Whatever environments we're in whenever we are kind of running on autopilot that we we drop out of awareness.
And that was kind of what I really learned during that time. Is that because I was on this big cycle like this treadmill that never stopped? Go, go, go, go! And your mind is constantly running. Lots of leaders. Lots of people live their life like this. They're so busy, so busy. Got to pick up the kids. Got to do this. Got to make dinner. Oh, I got to take the dog for a walk. You're constantly running around, and
(19:39):
what I saw was as soon as I was forced to become quiet as soon as I was forced to find stillness as soon as I was forced to find inner peace and balance again.
that is, when I realized that there was times where I lacked awareness, and I was letting kind of these unconscious habits, this habitual thinking, and all these things that my brain has learned to do to do? Just run on on autopilot. And it was this intentionalness that was missing. Of. What am I doing? Why am I doing it? How am I living? How am I spending my day that was lacking.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:20):
So. So what you did was sort of turn away from these habits that you'd built.
Yes, in in climbing the corporate ladder.
Seema Dhanoa (20:30):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:30):
And replace them with a new set. Right? Yes, a new set of habits. Now.
what changed for you when you sort of moved into this place that was more aligned
like, yeah, did did you start working hard again?
Seema Dhanoa (20:53):
So. I feel like what I did was by finding kind of this like balance with myself, and finding kind of the calling of like my book, I felt
I felt whole, and the reason why I felt whole was that I was listening to my intuition, and I find that, you know in life, when we ignore our inner voice, not sometimes that narrator voice in the mind, but that deep inner voice. When we ignore it, we start chipping parts of ourself away.
(21:24):
So I felt like all of these parts of myself, had come back.
and I felt whole, and it was about establishing new habits. You know I've always been big into healthy eating, big into wellness, and all of that, and what I committed to myself was not to put myself in that place again, that I have to establish these boundaries. I have to establish new habits, and part of my.
(21:50):
The trap that would have fallen into was the nighttime trap. It's like, Oh, why don't I do some work now and get ahead tomorrow? And I decided to replace those habits with things that I enjoy like reading the economist, you know, sitting down and watching a good show, you know, going for a walk, or going for a run, or whatever it is. But replacing that habit with something that allows me to feel presence allows me to just do something that I want to do versus what I'm forcing myself to do.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:20):
And you know, understanding the difference between those 2 things can be pretty tricky@firstst
Seema Dhanoa (22:27):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:29):
Because I think sometimes we feel oh, well, I'm forcing myself
to is for some people making healthy choices is forcing themselves right for some people. It's forcing themselves to go for a walk or go for a hike.
And and and for other people, work comes easier
(22:50):
because they're good at it. It makes them feel good. Right? Yeah. But one way to think about it is is these is is like you said you talk about this mindsets. And and and so one of the a long time ago
someone gave me a napkin, and I, and it was the myth of time, management, and.
Seema Dhanoa (23:09):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:09):
About how it's really about energy management. And in his model there were essentially 4 different buckets. Right? There's a spiritual, physical, mental, and emotional bucket. And you're talking about that.
Seema Dhanoa (23:23):
Very similar.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:24):
Own way between mind, body, heart, and intuition. Right? So going back to those things is what helped you. Is that? Is that correct?
Seema Dhanoa (23:31):
That is correct.
Govindh Jayaraman (23:33):
Right. So how do you regulate that today? How does that work for you today?
Seema Dhanoa (23:38):
So I think that you know I look at my life and what happened, and I think some of those.
some of those things that those events that happened were really profound moments of learning right? So when we have those profound moments of learning, I believe, like it happens for a reason. And so what I think that the journey that I've been on is really about living like a conscious life, being aware of, you know, just as that other individual put it like the spiritual like, which is similar to like. What I'm what I'm saying is that that is, that is what's important to me, and my life has to be
(24:13):
that way of being that way of living. And it's not about scheduling things in. And so I feel like this is where like a major shift comes in that came from myself. But I feel like this happens for people when you're not scheduling in, you know, meditation as an activity, or you know, I'm going to do a run. At this time. I think it is a profound shift in understanding that our being
(24:41):
and our way of living is what is most important, and when we feel that sort of harmony with
our emotions that we are whole, our mind, our body feels great. We're taking care of our spiritual self. Anything that we do will be in alignment. Your work will be in alignment, your family time will be in alignment, because you yourself are in that state of balance. So I feel like in my life, and what I do like. I'm really aware of
(25:08):
of my day like I start my day with meditation. I set an intention for my day, and that intention helps me to keep in mind, like what is the way of being that I want for the day. So I'm not setting the like. For example, even if I look at the week like I'm not setting goals. I got to get this done. That done, and that it's my intention is about you know what I'm looking to fill for the week, and sometimes like I've said to myself, you know my intention for the week is just to be in the state of flow.
(25:37):
That's it. That was my intention stayed afloat because I knew that I was in a busy period with my book, and that's all I wanted to be was inflow.
And so I found that to be a really helpful practice. And then the other practice that I established, which I also wrote about my book and I tell people to do is that I check in with myself often
(25:58):
like I check in with myself every single day. I ask myself, how am I doing? You know what's going on for you. And I find that we don't do this simple thing. And instead, what we have is sometimes stress. And all these things start to build up in the background. And it's only when we snap or have some sort of moment where we realize that we are actually stressed out.
(26:19):
And so I find it's a very simple practice, takes a couple seconds to just check in with yourself and ask, How are you doing? How am I doing? How do I feel.
Govindh Jayaraman (26:28):
So some somewhere there's someone listening, and they're
running a small or growing business. They may be a solo
or small entrepreneur, and they're running 12 h days, and they feel like they have to. They don't have an option right now, and they're listening to this and saying.
check in with myself. I don't have time to check in with myself. I have barely time to do anything.
(26:53):
so they're on this time. They're on the time.
Seema Dhanoa (26:57):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (26:57):
The treadmill right now, where they're trading time for everything.
What would you say to that person? What's what's 1 quick way that they can start checking in with themselves and transforming their habits.
Seema Dhanoa (27:10):
I think it's as simple as taking a pause, taking a pause in the day. Right? If you are working 12 h days like having a break
a 5 min. Break a 10 min, break, just walking away with what you're doing. Go outside, get some fresh air, and just ask yourself like, how am I doing sometimes if you ask yourself how, how I'm doing? And you say to yourself, Well.
(27:33):
you know, I'm really stressed out. There's a lot going on. I'm in it on my own. This is really hard. Life is tough.
It's so important to bring awareness to those things. Then it's like, okay. You know, I'm bringing awareness to what's happening here. This is what's going on for me. This is not going to be permanent. This is something that I'm going to be able to to like work through. So it is
(27:56):
when we don't self inquire. We're hiding what's there. But when we ask ourselves how we are doing, and we bring awareness to it. It starts to break that treadmill pattern. It starts to like shatter it. And that would be just the very simple thing to do.
Govindh Jayaraman (28:14):
Yeah, I think that's really. I mean, there's a lot there to just noticing it and bringing some awareness to it. And that's, I think
that that we solve things that we notice, we yes.
things we don't notice, and if you allow yourself to fake or hide from the truth that's going on.
it will perpetuate until it gets worse, but if you notice it, you call attention to it, you acknowledge it.
(28:40):
Your unconscious also conspires to find a way to improve it, too, doesn't it?
Seema Dhanoa (28:45):
That's right. That is, that is the most powerful thing that we can do.
Whatever we notice is what ends up being. That's what ends up being in in kind of our world. And so I and I think that sometimes people forget that our attention is so powerful, like our attention commands all these resources in our brain. And so, even when you start noticing it, and you start noticing it. And you and you know you're starting, it's coming up for you now, often, that usually is what helps people to then be like, you know what? Maybe I'm going to do something a little bit different today.
(29:19):
Maybe I'm not going to work till 7 pm. I'm going to stop at 5 30.
It it just takes that. It just takes those small moments that eventually lead to some form of recognition, and then a change in behavior.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:34):
And there's a there's a power of something else that you
are are sort of talking about, something that I like to talk about, that a mentor once taught me is the power of while.
and while you're doing something you do something else. So while you go for a walk, while you get some fresh air, you bring some awareness to this.
Seema Dhanoa (29:53):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:54):
On yourself.
Seema Dhanoa (29:55):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:55):
Energy is a real high roi.
Seema Dhanoa (29:59):
Perfect.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:59):
Around doing things that fill up more than one bucket at a time. Going back to those bucket things.
You're talking about the same kind of intention here, right.
Seema Dhanoa (30:08):
That's right, that's right. And you know, I think the the greatest.
you know, if we're talking about time, like all of those moments, are an investment in yourself.
like you're investing in yourself. You're you're making yourself heal. You're making yourself whole.
and that is very profound and powerful. And you do that for little bits every day. Little bits these like micro little bits, and eventually it adds up into something substantial.
(30:36):
And so I you know, I'm a big believer in going outside. I'm a big believer in going out into nature. I spend a lot of time in nature, and that is where some somewhere where I did. All of that kind of, you know, deep thinking and uncovering, because sometimes we got to change our environment. Our physical environment makes our certain habits come out.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:59):
You know we.
Seema Dhanoa (30:59):
It just comes on automatic. So it's very important to get into a different environment like going for a walk, stepping outside, get out of your workplace, your work zone so that you can. You can have a moment to be to be spending some very, very powerful time with yourself.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:18):
That's great.
As a shout out to a previous paper, napkin wisdom, guest, we've been asking every guest to appreciate something. So John Ruland was on the Podcast about 11 years ago, and he shared with us a very important paper napkin, which was what you appreciate, appreciates. And he started a movement around that became a bestselling book and a second book that's come out
(31:44):
post. His. His passing giftology was the 1st book.
In any event. John passed away suddenly last year, and we've been asking all our guests this year to shout out something to pay pay some appreciation forward into the universe, because what we appreciate does appreciate. So
who would you like to shout out today.
Seema Dhanoa (32:06):
I would like to shout out my partner, Steve, so he has been
so supportive of my path. And by my side he's actually kind of the 1st person I've met like in terms of a partner that supports me 100 about what I'm doing with my life and what I'm doing with my work and my career, and that. And that means that means a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:29):
Yeah, it certainly goes a long way, doesn't it?
Seema Dhanoa (32:32):
Yes.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:33):
All right. Thank you so much, seema. I appreciate you coming to share your story with us.
Seema Dhanoa (32:37):
Thank you for having me.
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