July 17, 2025 • 42 mins
David Umansky is the CEO and co-founder of Civic Builders, a nonprofit organization that designs, finances, and builds public charter schools in underserved communities across the United States. Since its inception in 2002, Civic Builders has helped create over 65 schools serving more than 30,000 students. But David’s impact goes far beyond buildings. He is an architect of opportunity, an operator of systems change, and an advocate for equity through infrastructure.
In this episode of Paper Napkin Wisdom, David shares a deceptively simple message: "Be bold!" — a two-word command that reads like a whisper and hits like a thunderclap. But what does it really mean to be bold in a world driven by constraints, compromise, and compliance?
For David, boldness is not just about bravery. It’s about designing for transformation. "If you want to solve big problems, you can't nibble around the edges," he says. "You have to get comfortable with discomfort — that's where the real change happens."
Building More Than Buildings
David opens up about the origin of Civic Builders and how a personal dissatisfaction with conventional impact pathways led him to pursue a model that merges public good with private execution. "We saw a gap. Charter schools were doing great work — but they were stuck in basements and old churches. The facilities were holding back the promise."
Rather than waiting for someone else to step in, David co-founded Civic Builders to solve a systemic failure: infrastructure as a barrier to educational equity. “We didn’t just want to help a few schools. We wanted to build a machine that could support thousands.”
De-Risking the Impossible
What makes Civic Builders unique is their ability to de-risk bold ideas for others. “We operate like a nonprofit, but we think like investors and developers. We make it easier for school founders and funders to say yes.” It’s a kind of courageous humility — removing the heavy lifting so others can lead.
But this isn’t about playing hero. David frames his work as a team sport — one that requires long-term partnerships, shared vision, and the ability to thrive inside constraints. “Real impact isn’t about throwing money at a problem. It’s about putting in the time to understand systems and then doing the hard work of redesigning them.”
When Bold Means Listening
Boldness, for David, doesn’t always mean shouting louder — sometimes it means listening better. He shares the story of how Civic Builders adapted its approach after deeply engaging with the school leaders and communities they serve. “It’s easy to come in thinking you know what’s best. Boldness is admitting you don’t.”
This humility-led design thinking — something David calls “mission with feedback loops” — is what sets Civic Builders apart. Their work evolves with every conversation, every school opening, and every challenge faced.
🖐 5 Key Takeaways from My Conversation with David Umansky
1. Bo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:02):
David Umanski. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Sierra Ballard (00:07):
Thanks, Govin. It's great to be here.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
So you shared a really great napkin. But you know, spoiler, alert, you're a real out of the box, thinker. So I'm really excited about this conversation, and I think your napkin is perfect. So you shared it with me. And it's very simple. Be bold! Exclamation point. Why did you share that with me?
Sierra Ballard (00:28):
I mean, I guess it's a life lesson. It's a business lesson. It's in order to do the hard things in life in order to do things that are scary. You need to be bold. You need to take risks and thinking about what that is. That's a very rich conversation. What does that mean like? It doesn't mean that you jump off buildings. That's 1 way of doing it, maybe for some people, not for me, certainly, but it means it means for for me and for civic builders. Our organization. It means
(00:56):
it means finding the hard problems. But the problems that have big impact. And even though folks may say, Hey, that's difficult, or or I don't think that can be done, to still find ways to take it on and make and make a real difference in the world.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:12):
And so I think this is what's really neat about it is is that you?
You're a real out of the box thinker like you saw a problem.
and I think it was your boldness and your approach to solve it that you created your organization and
(01:33):
that's not usual. Did did you date, make that jump immediately? Or was that incremental.
Sierra Ballard (01:41):
I mean, I think it was.
I think it was incremental, frankly so. So. My my background is sort of conventional business background. And I was doing that work for quite some time, and then felt like there was something missing in my life
that that the work itself was interesting, but I wasn't sure that I was working towards a purpose that I really believed in. And so I pivoted with my career and then founded this organization, Civic builders, which, as you mentioned it, does. It seeks to solve a very niche problem, a problem that many people may not know exists, but I think is a very fundamental problem with it for education. And so I'll just take a minute and say what that is which.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:26):
What is that problem?
Sierra Ballard (02:27):
Right. So if we think about schools, we often think about well, you know, if we want a good school, we need to have a great principal. We need great. We need great teachers. We need a curriculum. But you also need something else, which is a school building, right? If you don't have a school building. In most cases you don't have a school.
and school buildings are one of the big obstacles to opening up new great schools in this country
(02:55):
and this country desperately needs new grade schools. Right? There's an urgency here. There is our
education system is failing.
Thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of children each year and not setting them up for success. And so that's that's the big problem that we're trying to solve. And the niche way that we solve it is around this facilities, work.
Govindh Jayaraman (03:21):
So I think this is really important to understand.
Why why is it so hard to get schools built like, why is the building the problem
in your mind.
Sierra Ballard (03:34):
Well, I guess I'd I'd start out by maybe going back a little bit and saying.
if you look at the bottom quartile of schools in this country.
It is by and large the same schools in the but that would have been in the bottom quartile were in the bottom quartile 20 years ago.
(03:55):
We have a real problem with turning around schools. It's a hard thing to do.
And so that's 1 of the reasons that these things called charter schools have come into existence which give young, not necessarily young, but entrepreneur education. Entrepreneurs, the opportunity to open up new schools.
and these people they do tend to be younger, and they are energetic and creative, and they care about the work. And it's their job to hire all of the teachers and to organize the school. And still they need to also worry about building the building. And that is often where they get stuck.
(04:36):
And so that's our focus is on is on making sure that that building can get built without having that school leader so distracted by the building that they're not able to do the work that they should be focused on.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:50):
Yeah. And and one of the reasons why having a really great leadership team in the school is so important is, generally speaking, I mean the way I think about it. And I think about my own kids education.
When the principals are really active, there's active funding coming into the school, which means that the facilities and infrastructure are appropriately cared for and upgraded to advance their education opportunities right? So I mean, you want a great principal, so that they are doing the stuff to make sure the systems, tools, and structure are there for the education. You're kind of saying, well, we're really good at that part. Why don't we just help them with it? Right.
Sierra Ballard (05:33):
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Let us do the construction so they can do the instruction. If you will let us focus on the building so that they can focus on what they're good at.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:43):
Okay. So so you made this leap.
And you said it was incremental.
And and I and I, I'm gonna bet
that you, sitting around with the conventional business, and then said, You know, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to this place where people struggle to keep the schools open, and I'm going to start building buildings. I'm
(06:07):
guessing that people didn't, you know, break down your door trying to to help you.
Sierra Ballard (06:13):
Well, and it's the perfect sort of storm for the problem that's too big.
You, David Umanski, you know, working out of your basement, can solve this problem that requires tens of millions of dollars sometimes for each school building. And you know, at this point we've worked with over a hundred schools. And so the
(06:37):
where we are today, I think, is, I could not have imagined it. And and everybody so many people were telling me it's just not possible. And that's the boldness that we're talking about.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:49):
Right? Right? So
you and I think this is so important, your napkin is, be bold. But you even said you didn't imagine that what you're doing today is possible. Right? So this is the incremental nature of it. These micro goals along the way because
you're talking about solving a problem that municipalities are challenged by that district, and State governments are challenged by, and if anybody's been paying attention to the news is a pretty big hot button, nationally as well. Right? So these are big problems. And you're sitting there in your basement going, hey? You know I can dent this universe. What made you think that you could.
Sierra Ballard (07:32):
Well, we got 1st of all very fortunate in that.
Oh, cool.
I and a number of other people started civic builders at just after charter schools started in New York City.
and there were a lot of philanthropists that said, we actually really do want to help. So normally, if you start a not for profit. You go around and say, Hey, I got this great idea. Please give me money for it. Here it was almost a little bit different, the philanthropist said. We see this problem lurking. We've got money. We need a solution. And
(08:10):
myself and a number of other co-founders were able to develop a plan that that started small for sure and and was incremental.
But but attracted their interests and helped us get to where we are today.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:26):
That's great. Did you ever did you ever so? That's great that the people were there. There was like an upswell of support to see to make this happen. Where were the early obstacles then? Because I would have thought that capital would have been the early one. But it sounds like maybe it wasn't.
Sierra Ballard (08:44):
No capital was not our 1st obstacle, I mean so. Oh, my gosh! There were so many early obstacles at first, st I mean at 1st just coming up with the right plan. And part of our plan was this idea that we should deal with the real estate so that schools didn't need to. And we thought, you know, the best way to do that is actually develop the building, be a real estate developer, bring the financing in design, the building.
(09:08):
But when we got started we didn't do that. That requires a lot of capital. So we started out by consulting. But we did a lot of talking about development.
and I sat down at 1 point with A, with a major philanthropist in New York City who said to me, David, I have a piece of advice for you.
If you want to build buildings.
(09:29):
you need to build buildings. So his point was.
you gotta do it. You have to stop talking and start doing.
And so if you're asking about what some of the obstacles were, we ourselves were one of the obstacles we ourselves? It's interesting. I hadn't quite thought about it like this, but we had to not just convince others, but convince ourselves that we were ready for this.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:58):
Be bold right.
Sierra Ballard (09:59):
That's be bold, and that's a nice.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:01):
On yourself.
Sierra Ballard (10:01):
That's right, and that's and that was a. It was a very meaningful conversation I had with this this person and that gave us the push to get started with the 1st building, and here we are, 110 buildings later.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:15):
Amazing. So
I think that for a lot of entrepreneurs, when you start that 1st thing, we have a hard time of making it bad and making it better like the 1st time we do. It is never the way we're going to do it after a hundred times right? You've learned so much along the way.
How did you?
(10:35):
You know you're you're building schools, though. So how did you make sure that in that process of continuous improvement your stakeholders understood that the 1st time you did it wasn't going to be the one that you should be measured on. You should be measured on something else? Or was that something you even were aware of at the time?
Sierra Ballard (10:53):
I think that's a good. That's a great point. I'm not sure I was as aware of it as I should have been. That's mature management. Right? That's saying.
you know, that's saying we're going to misstep. Let me tell you. I don't know what the missteps are going to be, but I know that they're going to happen. We did that a little bit back then, and then, as we learned, we've done it, you know, as we've had experiences. We do that more. And also people understand
(11:18):
right? They understand that if you are trying hard, if you're if you're succeeding a lot, but not always that you know they don't. They can give you some grace for some of those missteps.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:31):
And but to your to your philanthropist's advice. Right? If you're trying hard, isn't just trying hard. It's doing hard like you were. You were called to action, and that's what people forgave. If you misstepped along the way. If you took the step and adjusted, they were willing to forgive that. But if you were just sitting around talking.
Sierra Ballard (11:52):
They had, and I think that was his. That was his subtext. Right? It was that we we want you to do. We don't want you just to talk, and so talking is doing and making a mistake is much more forgivable than not doing.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:07):
So. So the other thing that I think is really interesting about this is that
you made a purpose-driven shift right for you. You were in business, and turned right and said, No, there's something more I want to do this other thing. What was that call to action so that you're talking about the call to action in the doing rather than talking.
(12:32):
What pushed you from your old life to this new one?
Sierra Ballard (12:38):
That's a great question. I
I think I've always had inside of me this desire to contribute in some way. Frankly, I think it comes from family, from religion. I'm Jewish, and we have this idea that about repairing the world, that it's important to repair the world.
(13:06):
and that really sat with me at the same time. I also had very conventional parents who wanted you to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or something like that, and so I chose business, but it never quite felt right, and I had sort of a split personality in that. I was doing the work.
and I was volunteering and doing other things. And I wanted to bring those those 2 things together. And you know, when I started talking to people about it, I said, Hey, I've got an Mba. And I'd like to. I'd like to work at a not for profit. And they said you should go out and get a social work degree. That's what people have who work at not-for-profits.
(13:42):
And that wasn't me. I knew that. That's not, you know, that that would not have satisfied me. And here I feel like I have sort of the best of both worlds. I do real business, you know. We do financings and deal negotiations.
and we're doing this for the benefit of kids that, currently, you know, don't have great opportunities. And we're we're giving them better opportunities. And so that feels very good.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:06):
Yeah. So so you
all right, this is fun to me. Because, you know, 2,000 early, 2 thousands. Real estate
had a couple hiccups along the way. In the last 2023 years.
Sierra Ballard (14:19):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:20):
You know, especially real estate finance. And that's the world that you're playing in
significantly. So how did those challenges impact the work that you're doing. And and I love that. You've got the smiling faces of children behind you. I'm sure that was a motivating factor through those challenges. But it's also a lot of pressure right?
Sierra Ballard (14:40):
Sure. And, by the way, that the calendar is pressure, you know, if if you're building a restaurant, it's not maybe so terrible. If you open in June instead of May. If you're building a school building, you got to open in late August and November is just unacceptable.
So yeah, there is a lot of pressure with that. And and you're right in that. They're the obstacles that every real estate developer faces. I mean, today. It's tariffs, right? It had been in the great recession. It was just being able to borrow money
(15:15):
in Covid, I mean, Covid was wacky. We didn't know we didn't really know what the value of real estate was at the time. Because.
you know, are people are people going to work? And what is so so it impacted values tremendously. So we face all of that as well as other challenges of working, you know, working with schools and delivering on school timelines, etc. But that's also what makes it fun right like. In other words, the challenge is, it's invigorating to be able to, you know, to find solutions and a nice thing about doing
(15:50):
sort of mission-based work is that lots of people are around to help you. They're like, you know, they're they're
there are plenty of folks who I can call up, who, if there is a tricky issue to negotiate, who are more than happy to help. Sometimes it's because we have a relationship. But often it's because they know that the work we're doing is important in the community, and they want to be a part of it.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:17):
That's amazing. So let's talk about your 1st school, right.
Sierra Ballard (16:22):
Remember it well.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:23):
Tell me about it. Tell me about how that started.
Sierra Ballard (16:26):
So the the very 1st school is it's called the Bronx Charter School of the Arts, and it's a it's a small school in Hunts Point Bronx, which at the time was the
a poorest Congressional district in the United States, based on on family income
(16:49):
and a real dearth of excellent schools, and we met this dynamic school leader, who said, I've got a vision of building a school here, and that was the building where the gentleman had said to me.
you know it's it's time to start doing and
(17:15):
That project was probably a 10th of the size of projects that we do now? It was. It was small, it was very small, and and we still really didn't have enough money to do it, and we we somehow pulled it, pulled it together, and but then we had a proof point. And this and and this building this building was.
(17:40):
we were so concerned about price on this building
that we didn't do some basic things that you should do in schools like putting treads on the on the staircases.
And we had to come in after we didn't have the $10,000 to have the treads, and we came in after and added the treads. But that's how how tight things were! But once we got that building built, and it's a beautiful building with
(18:06):
bright colors on the outside, like sort of colored bricks that are really beautiful. Big, wide hallways, lots of light, and and it became a proof point. So that's where now we, you know, went out. And then things start going. That's the incremental in some ways. You kind of do the little building, and then you do the medium sized building, and and there and there you go.
Govindh Jayaraman (18:30):
So let's talk about that little building now.
when you got that building up and running when you got that, when you delivered the building
to the, to the school.
How did that boldness come out like? What did that feeling feel like.
Sierra Ballard (18:49):
I'll tell you. Before we deliver the building. The kids were at a sort of a dilapidated public school building that wasn't going to be able to handle them as they grew. These schools tend to start small, and then they start, maybe with a kindergarten or 1st grade, and then they bring in a second grade and a 3rd grade, and so they were going to grow out of the building.
(19:12):
But they were in their temporary location, and we brought the kids together in front of this. It was a old salami factory that we turned into a school.
and we put them in front of the old sliding factory, which was not a pretty building at all at the time, and we gave them paint and brushes, and we had them paint their sort of vision of what a elementary school building could look like in this neighborhood, and that was fantastic.
(19:40):
that was fantastic. And then, a year and a half later or so we brought those same kids who, you know, were tiny. And so they went from kindergarten to maybe second grade. And they came back and and they had on these little hard hats that they painted, and we had a ribbon cutting ceremony, which was, you know, which was amazing.
(20:00):
and seeing the families, the parents, the kids, I mean, these kids are always just the cutest. But the families were so grateful and so excited. It was an amazing feeling.
And and and you know, in some ways
it just reminds me, you know, space matters to people. And of course, school space matters. If it's nice to work in an office that has light, right? No, we don't want to work in a space that has no windows. We want the space to be clean and bright, and to be you know, very usable. And so
(20:35):
there's a there's a there's a message that we're sending to kids to say, hey? You're valuable. Look. It's important that your experience is a positive experience. So I think that I think that that message is is also clearly delivered.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:50):
It's it's amazing.
There's so much in what you just said. And if you're listening to the podcast.
Do yourself a favor and switch over to Youtube at some point along the way, and I hope you just take a look at the way David's face lit up when talking about delivering that school, because I think that that, you know, being bold comes with a little bit.
(21:18):
There's a resilience to sticking through some significant challenges. I mean, you're talking about 18 months in a few sentences, and there would have been you talked about not having the funds to do all of the things that you wanted to do along the way, so I know that there were challenges in that. But the way you lit up in talking about that, I'm sure those are the moments that hold you through those times when boldness may be hard to find. Right.
Sierra Ballard (21:47):
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, and I think that you're absolutely right. That resilience is just so important, because because it's not going to be a clear, easy path, right? You're picking a hard path, and even your hard path.
even though you know it's a hard path.
There are going to be bumps along the way that you didn't expect, and that are going to be frustrating. And so part part of boldness is working through problems. And we we do that all the time here.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:18):
Yes, one of the problems that I wonder about. And I wonder about it in in businesses like yours that have a very strong social enterprise component?
What does competitive pressure feel like and look like in your world?
Sierra Ballard (22:36):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean. So the 1st thing that came to mind is is staff. So our team
is not social workers. They have the same skills as so we both develop the real estate. And we also do some lending. And so we've got people with strong financial skills, with strong real estate skills, with people who are lenders, people who are asset managers, all of these jobs that you could find at a bank or or at another real estate company. And so we do have to compete. And it's end
(23:12):
something that I'm very proud of at civic builders is that we've got people who are at the top of their game. They're really good. So you're not getting a less good product because you're working with a nonprofit. You get a product and a team that is top notch and and doing that
(23:34):
in a world where there's that sort of labor, competition is is tricky, and part of it is is that we have to respond, and that we have to be. We have to be good and fair to to our employees, and and part of their compensation is monetary, and part of their compensation is in the children's faces as they're going to to do the work and and to be in these communities.
(23:58):
And and so, you know, we we we have the best of both worlds. We have folks who are really good at what they do, and they care a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (24:06):
That's amazing. So you have to be competitive about people. And I think that's something that people take for granted.
I think also another thing that people take for granted, and and you and you went there right away, which I think is interesting
in a social enterprise. People take for granted.
That people will care about the purpose right? A lot and enough.
(24:31):
And sometimes as leaders within those kinds of organizations, we care about the purpose so much we forget about our people, but that doesn't sound like that's what you do in your organization.
Sierra Ballard (24:42):
We try not to. I mean, you know, we are learning along the way still, 23 years later. But and we're a much bigger team. Now, right? It also feels. I mean, this is in addition to be a mission-based organization. We are an entrepreneurial organization, started with 2 or 3 people. And now is 30 people. And the culture and the team environment is different. As you go through that evolution.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:11):
So. So what?
What are the ambitious ideas ahead of you now? I mean, you've you've grown. You said 10 x. From the time that you were building the 1st school to now you've built 110 buildings. Some of the stats that I got were 51,000 students impacted across 110 schools. Now, you say, nationwide, that's an incredible accomplishment. What's your next bold move?
Sierra Ballard (25:42):
Next. So so maybe I'll bring us from. When we got started. We just built the buildings. That was our focus. Who said, Oh, schools need buildings. So we're going to build the buildings.
And in 2013, we said, wait a second. Maybe we can help them in different ways at building their buildings. And so in 2013, we got involved in a tax credit program through the Federal Government, and we have accessed almost 400 million dollars of these tax credits called new market tax credits, and we invest them in charter schools across the country for the benefit of schools. That kind of got us involved in financial services.
(26:21):
We joined up with the Walton family foundation, and have been for the past several years managing about a 400 million dollars, lending fund to lend to schools. So we are not just helping them now build the building, but sort of providing these wraparound services all that relate to the building because the school leaders still focus on what goes on inside the building.
(26:45):
So the next thing for us, I think, is geographic expansion. So the development work for us happens in New York City and kind of the northeast. And we're looking for what's the next place that we go and the way we think about that is like we don't want to go and build one building in Montana. We want to pick a geography and find
(27:08):
like an ecosystem solution to their problems. We've got now lots of tools in our toolbox. And so what does this particular geography need? And we will try to craft a solution that meets their needs.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:25):
I love how you're
your value. Proposition went from just building the building to this idea of an ecosystem solution to the challenges that face charter schools wherever they may be across America.
How do you measure success like what? What's on your vision board?
(27:46):
Because I know boldness is a part of it. That's a very. I want people listening to understand how audacious this is. I said it earlier on
municipalities.
regional and State governments and the Federal government are heavily challenged with creating these ecosystems around schools to support them organically, you have done this.
(28:10):
you have done this incrementally. This is this is amazing work. This is important work. This is the future, not just of of one nation, but of many nations. This is a great model.
How do you measure that success.
Sierra Ballard (28:25):
Well. So we measure it in a bunch of different ways. The metric that we count is how many students are we impacting? So every time we build a new building. It's probably 500 more students each year that go through these buildings. So that's an important metric for us. But we also then focus on the quality of the education that happens in those buildings. Because
(28:52):
we're not building buildings for building sake. We're buildings for education's sake. So people have opportunities. And so we want to make sure. Excuse me, we want to make sure that the people who are at the schools that are operating. Our buildings are really adding value and creating these opportunities. And so we have a vetting process for that. And then we we measure that
(29:16):
throughout our relationship with the school building? Right? So we keep on going back and saying, How are they doing? And and if they're not doing well, what can we learn from that? Or how can we support them so that maybe they can do they could. They could have better outcomes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:31):
So
when you think about how things have grown when you think about how you've taken, you know this small idea, this action, this little action.
Right? Build the school.
You can't talk about building buildings. You have to build the buildings
right? You can't talk about building an ecosystem. You're building the ecosystem
(29:52):
right? And it sounds like a 360 review process where you're being able to do that.
has there ever been a situation where even one of the graduates of one of these schools has come by and knocked on, knocked on the door at civic builders, and said, Hey, I'd like to help with your mission.
Sierra Ballard (30:09):
We have 2 people working at civic builders who have been through school programs of schools that we've built.
We we. So so yes, the answer is yes, and that is really gratifying.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:23):
Yeah, I can imagine. I like how you keep the focus. Your metric that you 1st came up with right away was number of students, and I think that for
a lot of entrepreneurs, especially ones that are socially motivated, they get very complex with their Kpi and the things that they're trying to measure, and it becomes, you know, maybe opaque. As a result, you're really focused on students. Is that a deliberate process? Is that something that is hard to remain. The focus on it sounds very intentional.
Sierra Ballard (30:55):
We did some serious thinking about that early on. And it is. That's why we're doing the work. That's why we're doing the work. And so the more kids that we can impact the better. But but we do want to be careful and make sure, making sure that we're not just, you know, building empty buildings. But we're building buildings that add value. And so those that that's what
(31:22):
that it is intentional and matters a lot to us.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:25):
Yeah, you're not building buildings. I remember one time somebody explaining to me
the one thing you don't want to do in real estate in any way. Shape or form is store air
and and and you're not, you're not building those beautiful buildings to store air. Yeah? So so if if
what is the surprising thing that you've learned about building an education ecosystem around these charter schools that you
(31:54):
thought that that surprises you the most?
Or what are some of the things that surprise you the most about this.
Sierra Ballard (32:01):
Yeah, I don't know about surprises. So 1 1 thing that's interesting is that charter schools. Some of the strength of Charter schools is their independence. So they have. They have bold ideas themselves. They have different ways of doing things. Some of the schools are, you know.
(32:22):
career and technical, provide career and technical education. Some of the schools provide more classical education. There's a whole variety of ways that schools happen.
and that that that landscape is is made stronger by its diversity.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:50):
But that same.
Sierra Ballard (32:52):
Diversity and independence sometimes gets in the way of the big things that the schools have to do. And I'll give you some examples. One example is advocacy. So all of the schools, whether they're, you know, whether they're a career, technical education school or an art school or a more classical school. They all are, you know, have
(33:16):
similar interests around money around, you know, around maybe access to facilities and other things, but because the because
the schools operate so independently. It's sometimes difficult to bring them together. To solve that sort of problem and facilities is very much the same thing. Right? Facilities is very similar. It's a big, big infrastructure problem. And you've got all of these small nonprofit schools
(33:43):
who are trying to figure it out on their own. And that became in many ways the opportunity that we stepped into to say, Wait, let's have an organization that focuses on the infrastructure. So you guys can be can provide education in all of the different ways that you do. And so I think that there's a bit of a double edged sword, and that was a bit of a surprise to me. Both the strength of the movement and the weakness of the movement.
Govindh Jayaraman (34:11):
Interesting and has your boldness pulled you
off of that core infrastructure value that you provide along the way. I mean, there are so many problems that need to be solved in education, it may be distracting. Have you ever found that?
Have you ever been distracted by that? Or have have you been able to stay focused.
Sierra Ballard (34:32):
No, I think we've been able to stay focused. And it's also it says, when you, when you sort of generalize like that, you can find analogs that you can learn from. Say, all right. These guys didn't do this with schools, but they did this in other ways and that, and that, and that becomes interesting, and things that opportunities for us to better what we do.
Govindh Jayaraman (34:53):
That's amazing. Well, I know there's a lot more we could dig in here, and I'm sure I'm sure we could, but our time is nearly at the end. In this season of paper napkin wisdom! We've been shouting out
a dear friend of the show. His name is John Rulan. He passed suddenly, just a little bit earlier on this year, and he gave us a gift of a wonderful napkin many years ago, which was what you appreciate appreciates, and he started a movement. From that day on, 14 years ago he wrote a book called Giftology, which became an international bestseller business and a movement around gratitude, and so
(35:36):
ending every episode the season. We've been asking our guests to shout out someone or some people that would be important. Who would you like to shout out today.
Sierra Ballard (35:45):
Well, 1st of all, I mean, thank you for the opportunity, and I think I have a similar shout out. I had the real pleasure of working with a dynamic leader in education named Don Shelvey. Don was a superintendent of schools in Stockton, California. And then he went on to run a large charter school network in California, called Aspire
(36:16):
and
And then he he went to the Gates Foundation, and he directed education, philanthropy at the Gates Foundation for many years. He he sadly passed away
year and a half or so ago, but but Don was a big thinker, and just had the heart of gold. Don actually
(36:39):
identified for us. He he was very interested in helping this community in Rhode Island, centered around Central Falls, which is a 1 square mile
community sort of in an industrial area. There's a lot of poverty that the actually the town had to declare bankruptcy at some point, and Don was convinced that the way to prosperity was through education, and was ready to make a big bet there, and so we joined with him. We built school 3 school buildings in the neighborhood, which is a lot for a small small area.
(37:16):
and he always did that work with a big smile on his face, and I missed Don. And so I'm going to shout out Don Shelvey.
Govindh Jayaraman (37:27):
Thank you for sharing that, David, and thank you for joining me today.
Sierra Ballard (37:30):
Yeah, thanks so much, Kevinda. I really appreciate it.
David Umanski. Welcome to paper napkin wisdom. I'm excited to have you here today.
Sierra Ballard (00:07):
Thanks, Govin. It's great to be here.
Govindh Jayaraman (00:09):
So you shared a really great napkin. But you know, spoiler, alert, you're a real out of the box, thinker. So I'm really excited about this conversation, and I think your napkin is perfect. So you shared it with me. And it's very simple. Be bold! Exclamation point. Why did you share that with me?
Sierra Ballard (00:28):
I mean, I guess it's a life lesson. It's a business lesson. It's in order to do the hard things in life in order to do things that are scary. You need to be bold. You need to take risks and thinking about what that is. That's a very rich conversation. What does that mean like? It doesn't mean that you jump off buildings. That's 1 way of doing it, maybe for some people, not for me, certainly, but it means it means for for me and for civic builders. Our organization. It means
(00:56):
it means finding the hard problems. But the problems that have big impact. And even though folks may say, Hey, that's difficult, or or I don't think that can be done, to still find ways to take it on and make and make a real difference in the world.
Govindh Jayaraman (01:12):
And so I think this is what's really neat about it is is that you?
You're a real out of the box thinker like you saw a problem.
and I think it was your boldness and your approach to solve it that you created your organization and
(01:33):
that's not usual. Did did you date, make that jump immediately? Or was that incremental.
Sierra Ballard (01:41):
I mean, I think it was.
I think it was incremental, frankly so. So. My my background is sort of conventional business background. And I was doing that work for quite some time, and then felt like there was something missing in my life
that that the work itself was interesting, but I wasn't sure that I was working towards a purpose that I really believed in. And so I pivoted with my career and then founded this organization, Civic builders, which, as you mentioned it, does. It seeks to solve a very niche problem, a problem that many people may not know exists, but I think is a very fundamental problem with it for education. And so I'll just take a minute and say what that is which.
Govindh Jayaraman (02:26):
What is that problem?
Sierra Ballard (02:27):
Right. So if we think about schools, we often think about well, you know, if we want a good school, we need to have a great principal. We need great. We need great teachers. We need a curriculum. But you also need something else, which is a school building, right? If you don't have a school building. In most cases you don't have a school.
and school buildings are one of the big obstacles to opening up new great schools in this country
(02:55):
and this country desperately needs new grade schools. Right? There's an urgency here. There is our
education system is failing.
Thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of children each year and not setting them up for success. And so that's that's the big problem that we're trying to solve. And the niche way that we solve it is around this facilities, work.
Govindh Jayaraman (03:21):
So I think this is really important to understand.
Why why is it so hard to get schools built like, why is the building the problem
in your mind.
Sierra Ballard (03:34):
Well, I guess I'd I'd start out by maybe going back a little bit and saying.
if you look at the bottom quartile of schools in this country.
It is by and large the same schools in the but that would have been in the bottom quartile were in the bottom quartile 20 years ago.
(03:55):
We have a real problem with turning around schools. It's a hard thing to do.
And so that's 1 of the reasons that these things called charter schools have come into existence which give young, not necessarily young, but entrepreneur education. Entrepreneurs, the opportunity to open up new schools.
and these people they do tend to be younger, and they are energetic and creative, and they care about the work. And it's their job to hire all of the teachers and to organize the school. And still they need to also worry about building the building. And that is often where they get stuck.
(04:36):
And so that's our focus is on is on making sure that that building can get built without having that school leader so distracted by the building that they're not able to do the work that they should be focused on.
Govindh Jayaraman (04:50):
Yeah. And and one of the reasons why having a really great leadership team in the school is so important is, generally speaking, I mean the way I think about it. And I think about my own kids education.
When the principals are really active, there's active funding coming into the school, which means that the facilities and infrastructure are appropriately cared for and upgraded to advance their education opportunities right? So I mean, you want a great principal, so that they are doing the stuff to make sure the systems, tools, and structure are there for the education. You're kind of saying, well, we're really good at that part. Why don't we just help them with it? Right.
Sierra Ballard (05:33):
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Let us do the construction so they can do the instruction. If you will let us focus on the building so that they can focus on what they're good at.
Govindh Jayaraman (05:43):
Okay. So so you made this leap.
And you said it was incremental.
And and I and I, I'm gonna bet
that you, sitting around with the conventional business, and then said, You know, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go to this place where people struggle to keep the schools open, and I'm going to start building buildings. I'm
(06:07):
guessing that people didn't, you know, break down your door trying to to help you.
Sierra Ballard (06:13):
Well, and it's the perfect sort of storm for the problem that's too big.
You, David Umanski, you know, working out of your basement, can solve this problem that requires tens of millions of dollars sometimes for each school building. And you know, at this point we've worked with over a hundred schools. And so the
(06:37):
where we are today, I think, is, I could not have imagined it. And and everybody so many people were telling me it's just not possible. And that's the boldness that we're talking about.
Govindh Jayaraman (06:49):
Right? Right? So
you and I think this is so important, your napkin is, be bold. But you even said you didn't imagine that what you're doing today is possible. Right? So this is the incremental nature of it. These micro goals along the way because
you're talking about solving a problem that municipalities are challenged by that district, and State governments are challenged by, and if anybody's been paying attention to the news is a pretty big hot button, nationally as well. Right? So these are big problems. And you're sitting there in your basement going, hey? You know I can dent this universe. What made you think that you could.
Sierra Ballard (07:32):
Well, we got 1st of all very fortunate in that.
Oh, cool.
I and a number of other people started civic builders at just after charter schools started in New York City.
and there were a lot of philanthropists that said, we actually really do want to help. So normally, if you start a not for profit. You go around and say, Hey, I got this great idea. Please give me money for it. Here it was almost a little bit different, the philanthropist said. We see this problem lurking. We've got money. We need a solution. And
(08:10):
myself and a number of other co-founders were able to develop a plan that that started small for sure and and was incremental.
But but attracted their interests and helped us get to where we are today.
Govindh Jayaraman (08:26):
That's great. Did you ever did you ever so? That's great that the people were there. There was like an upswell of support to see to make this happen. Where were the early obstacles then? Because I would have thought that capital would have been the early one. But it sounds like maybe it wasn't.
Sierra Ballard (08:44):
No capital was not our 1st obstacle, I mean so. Oh, my gosh! There were so many early obstacles at first, st I mean at 1st just coming up with the right plan. And part of our plan was this idea that we should deal with the real estate so that schools didn't need to. And we thought, you know, the best way to do that is actually develop the building, be a real estate developer, bring the financing in design, the building.
(09:08):
But when we got started we didn't do that. That requires a lot of capital. So we started out by consulting. But we did a lot of talking about development.
and I sat down at 1 point with A, with a major philanthropist in New York City who said to me, David, I have a piece of advice for you.
If you want to build buildings.
(09:29):
you need to build buildings. So his point was.
you gotta do it. You have to stop talking and start doing.
And so if you're asking about what some of the obstacles were, we ourselves were one of the obstacles we ourselves? It's interesting. I hadn't quite thought about it like this, but we had to not just convince others, but convince ourselves that we were ready for this.
Govindh Jayaraman (09:58):
Be bold right.
Sierra Ballard (09:59):
That's be bold, and that's a nice.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:01):
On yourself.
Sierra Ballard (10:01):
That's right, and that's and that was a. It was a very meaningful conversation I had with this this person and that gave us the push to get started with the 1st building, and here we are, 110 buildings later.
Govindh Jayaraman (10:15):
Amazing. So
I think that for a lot of entrepreneurs, when you start that 1st thing, we have a hard time of making it bad and making it better like the 1st time we do. It is never the way we're going to do it after a hundred times right? You've learned so much along the way.
How did you?
(10:35):
You know you're you're building schools, though. So how did you make sure that in that process of continuous improvement your stakeholders understood that the 1st time you did it wasn't going to be the one that you should be measured on. You should be measured on something else? Or was that something you even were aware of at the time?
Sierra Ballard (10:53):
I think that's a good. That's a great point. I'm not sure I was as aware of it as I should have been. That's mature management. Right? That's saying.
you know, that's saying we're going to misstep. Let me tell you. I don't know what the missteps are going to be, but I know that they're going to happen. We did that a little bit back then, and then, as we learned, we've done it, you know, as we've had experiences. We do that more. And also people understand
(11:18):
right? They understand that if you are trying hard, if you're if you're succeeding a lot, but not always that you know they don't. They can give you some grace for some of those missteps.
Govindh Jayaraman (11:31):
And but to your to your philanthropist's advice. Right? If you're trying hard, isn't just trying hard. It's doing hard like you were. You were called to action, and that's what people forgave. If you misstepped along the way. If you took the step and adjusted, they were willing to forgive that. But if you were just sitting around talking.
Sierra Ballard (11:52):
They had, and I think that was his. That was his subtext. Right? It was that we we want you to do. We don't want you just to talk, and so talking is doing and making a mistake is much more forgivable than not doing.
Govindh Jayaraman (12:07):
So. So the other thing that I think is really interesting about this is that
you made a purpose-driven shift right for you. You were in business, and turned right and said, No, there's something more I want to do this other thing. What was that call to action so that you're talking about the call to action in the doing rather than talking.
(12:32):
What pushed you from your old life to this new one?
Sierra Ballard (12:38):
That's a great question. I
I think I've always had inside of me this desire to contribute in some way. Frankly, I think it comes from family, from religion. I'm Jewish, and we have this idea that about repairing the world, that it's important to repair the world.
(13:06):
and that really sat with me at the same time. I also had very conventional parents who wanted you to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or something like that, and so I chose business, but it never quite felt right, and I had sort of a split personality in that. I was doing the work.
and I was volunteering and doing other things. And I wanted to bring those those 2 things together. And you know, when I started talking to people about it, I said, Hey, I've got an Mba. And I'd like to. I'd like to work at a not for profit. And they said you should go out and get a social work degree. That's what people have who work at not-for-profits.
(13:42):
And that wasn't me. I knew that. That's not, you know, that that would not have satisfied me. And here I feel like I have sort of the best of both worlds. I do real business, you know. We do financings and deal negotiations.
and we're doing this for the benefit of kids that, currently, you know, don't have great opportunities. And we're we're giving them better opportunities. And so that feels very good.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:06):
Yeah. So so you
all right, this is fun to me. Because, you know, 2,000 early, 2 thousands. Real estate
had a couple hiccups along the way. In the last 2023 years.
Sierra Ballard (14:19):
Yeah.
Govindh Jayaraman (14:20):
You know, especially real estate finance. And that's the world that you're playing in
significantly. So how did those challenges impact the work that you're doing. And and I love that. You've got the smiling faces of children behind you. I'm sure that was a motivating factor through those challenges. But it's also a lot of pressure right?
Sierra Ballard (14:40):
Sure. And, by the way, that the calendar is pressure, you know, if if you're building a restaurant, it's not maybe so terrible. If you open in June instead of May. If you're building a school building, you got to open in late August and November is just unacceptable.
So yeah, there is a lot of pressure with that. And and you're right in that. They're the obstacles that every real estate developer faces. I mean, today. It's tariffs, right? It had been in the great recession. It was just being able to borrow money
(15:15):
in Covid, I mean, Covid was wacky. We didn't know we didn't really know what the value of real estate was at the time. Because.
you know, are people are people going to work? And what is so so it impacted values tremendously. So we face all of that as well as other challenges of working, you know, working with schools and delivering on school timelines, etc. But that's also what makes it fun right like. In other words, the challenge is, it's invigorating to be able to, you know, to find solutions and a nice thing about doing
(15:50):
sort of mission-based work is that lots of people are around to help you. They're like, you know, they're they're
there are plenty of folks who I can call up, who, if there is a tricky issue to negotiate, who are more than happy to help. Sometimes it's because we have a relationship. But often it's because they know that the work we're doing is important in the community, and they want to be a part of it.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:17):
That's amazing. So let's talk about your 1st school, right.
Sierra Ballard (16:22):
Remember it well.
Govindh Jayaraman (16:23):
Tell me about it. Tell me about how that started.
Sierra Ballard (16:26):
So the the very 1st school is it's called the Bronx Charter School of the Arts, and it's a it's a small school in Hunts Point Bronx, which at the time was the
a poorest Congressional district in the United States, based on on family income
(16:49):
and a real dearth of excellent schools, and we met this dynamic school leader, who said, I've got a vision of building a school here, and that was the building where the gentleman had said to me.
you know it's it's time to start doing and
(17:15):
That project was probably a 10th of the size of projects that we do now? It was. It was small, it was very small, and and we still really didn't have enough money to do it, and we we somehow pulled it, pulled it together, and but then we had a proof point. And this and and this building this building was.
(17:40):
we were so concerned about price on this building
that we didn't do some basic things that you should do in schools like putting treads on the on the staircases.
And we had to come in after we didn't have the $10,000 to have the treads, and we came in after and added the treads. But that's how how tight things were! But once we got that building built, and it's a beautiful building with
(18:06):
bright colors on the outside, like sort of colored bricks that are really beautiful. Big, wide hallways, lots of light, and and it became a proof point. So that's where now we, you know, went out. And then things start going. That's the incremental in some ways. You kind of do the little building, and then you do the medium sized building, and and there and there you go.
Govindh Jayaraman (18:30):
So let's talk about that little building now.
when you got that building up and running when you got that, when you delivered the building
to the, to the school.
How did that boldness come out like? What did that feeling feel like.
Sierra Ballard (18:49):
I'll tell you. Before we deliver the building. The kids were at a sort of a dilapidated public school building that wasn't going to be able to handle them as they grew. These schools tend to start small, and then they start, maybe with a kindergarten or 1st grade, and then they bring in a second grade and a 3rd grade, and so they were going to grow out of the building.
(19:12):
But they were in their temporary location, and we brought the kids together in front of this. It was a old salami factory that we turned into a school.
and we put them in front of the old sliding factory, which was not a pretty building at all at the time, and we gave them paint and brushes, and we had them paint their sort of vision of what a elementary school building could look like in this neighborhood, and that was fantastic.
(19:40):
that was fantastic. And then, a year and a half later or so we brought those same kids who, you know, were tiny. And so they went from kindergarten to maybe second grade. And they came back and and they had on these little hard hats that they painted, and we had a ribbon cutting ceremony, which was, you know, which was amazing.
(20:00):
and seeing the families, the parents, the kids, I mean, these kids are always just the cutest. But the families were so grateful and so excited. It was an amazing feeling.
And and and you know, in some ways
it just reminds me, you know, space matters to people. And of course, school space matters. If it's nice to work in an office that has light, right? No, we don't want to work in a space that has no windows. We want the space to be clean and bright, and to be you know, very usable. And so
(20:35):
there's a there's a there's a message that we're sending to kids to say, hey? You're valuable. Look. It's important that your experience is a positive experience. So I think that I think that that message is is also clearly delivered.
Govindh Jayaraman (20:50):
It's it's amazing.
There's so much in what you just said. And if you're listening to the podcast.
Do yourself a favor and switch over to Youtube at some point along the way, and I hope you just take a look at the way David's face lit up when talking about delivering that school, because I think that that, you know, being bold comes with a little bit.
(21:18):
There's a resilience to sticking through some significant challenges. I mean, you're talking about 18 months in a few sentences, and there would have been you talked about not having the funds to do all of the things that you wanted to do along the way, so I know that there were challenges in that. But the way you lit up in talking about that, I'm sure those are the moments that hold you through those times when boldness may be hard to find. Right.
Sierra Ballard (21:47):
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, and I think that you're absolutely right. That resilience is just so important, because because it's not going to be a clear, easy path, right? You're picking a hard path, and even your hard path.
even though you know it's a hard path.
There are going to be bumps along the way that you didn't expect, and that are going to be frustrating. And so part part of boldness is working through problems. And we we do that all the time here.
Govindh Jayaraman (22:18):
Yes, one of the problems that I wonder about. And I wonder about it in in businesses like yours that have a very strong social enterprise component?
What does competitive pressure feel like and look like in your world?
Sierra Ballard (22:36):
Yeah, that's a great question. I mean. So the 1st thing that came to mind is is staff. So our team
is not social workers. They have the same skills as so we both develop the real estate. And we also do some lending. And so we've got people with strong financial skills, with strong real estate skills, with people who are lenders, people who are asset managers, all of these jobs that you could find at a bank or or at another real estate company. And so we do have to compete. And it's end
(23:12):
something that I'm very proud of at civic builders is that we've got people who are at the top of their game. They're really good. So you're not getting a less good product because you're working with a nonprofit. You get a product and a team that is top notch and and doing that
(23:34):
in a world where there's that sort of labor, competition is is tricky, and part of it is is that we have to respond, and that we have to be. We have to be good and fair to to our employees, and and part of their compensation is monetary, and part of their compensation is in the children's faces as they're going to to do the work and and to be in these communities.
(23:58):
And and so, you know, we we we have the best of both worlds. We have folks who are really good at what they do, and they care a lot.
Govindh Jayaraman (24:06):
That's amazing. So you have to be competitive about people. And I think that's something that people take for granted.
I think also another thing that people take for granted, and and you and you went there right away, which I think is interesting
in a social enterprise. People take for granted.
That people will care about the purpose right? A lot and enough.
(24:31):
And sometimes as leaders within those kinds of organizations, we care about the purpose so much we forget about our people, but that doesn't sound like that's what you do in your organization.
Sierra Ballard (24:42):
We try not to. I mean, you know, we are learning along the way still, 23 years later. But and we're a much bigger team. Now, right? It also feels. I mean, this is in addition to be a mission-based organization. We are an entrepreneurial organization, started with 2 or 3 people. And now is 30 people. And the culture and the team environment is different. As you go through that evolution.
Govindh Jayaraman (25:11):
So. So what?
What are the ambitious ideas ahead of you now? I mean, you've you've grown. You said 10 x. From the time that you were building the 1st school to now you've built 110 buildings. Some of the stats that I got were 51,000 students impacted across 110 schools. Now, you say, nationwide, that's an incredible accomplishment. What's your next bold move?
Sierra Ballard (25:42):
Next. So so maybe I'll bring us from. When we got started. We just built the buildings. That was our focus. Who said, Oh, schools need buildings. So we're going to build the buildings.
And in 2013, we said, wait a second. Maybe we can help them in different ways at building their buildings. And so in 2013, we got involved in a tax credit program through the Federal Government, and we have accessed almost 400 million dollars of these tax credits called new market tax credits, and we invest them in charter schools across the country for the benefit of schools. That kind of got us involved in financial services.
(26:21):
We joined up with the Walton family foundation, and have been for the past several years managing about a 400 million dollars, lending fund to lend to schools. So we are not just helping them now build the building, but sort of providing these wraparound services all that relate to the building because the school leaders still focus on what goes on inside the building.
(26:45):
So the next thing for us, I think, is geographic expansion. So the development work for us happens in New York City and kind of the northeast. And we're looking for what's the next place that we go and the way we think about that is like we don't want to go and build one building in Montana. We want to pick a geography and find
(27:08):
like an ecosystem solution to their problems. We've got now lots of tools in our toolbox. And so what does this particular geography need? And we will try to craft a solution that meets their needs.
Govindh Jayaraman (27:25):
I love how you're
your value. Proposition went from just building the building to this idea of an ecosystem solution to the challenges that face charter schools wherever they may be across America.
How do you measure success like what? What's on your vision board?
(27:46):
Because I know boldness is a part of it. That's a very. I want people listening to understand how audacious this is. I said it earlier on
municipalities.
regional and State governments and the Federal government are heavily challenged with creating these ecosystems around schools to support them organically, you have done this.
(28:10):
you have done this incrementally. This is this is amazing work. This is important work. This is the future, not just of of one nation, but of many nations. This is a great model.
How do you measure that success.
Sierra Ballard (28:25):
Well. So we measure it in a bunch of different ways. The metric that we count is how many students are we impacting? So every time we build a new building. It's probably 500 more students each year that go through these buildings. So that's an important metric for us. But we also then focus on the quality of the education that happens in those buildings. Because
(28:52):
we're not building buildings for building sake. We're buildings for education's sake. So people have opportunities. And so we want to make sure. Excuse me, we want to make sure that the people who are at the schools that are operating. Our buildings are really adding value and creating these opportunities. And so we have a vetting process for that. And then we we measure that
(29:16):
throughout our relationship with the school building? Right? So we keep on going back and saying, How are they doing? And and if they're not doing well, what can we learn from that? Or how can we support them so that maybe they can do they could. They could have better outcomes.
Govindh Jayaraman (29:31):
So
when you think about how things have grown when you think about how you've taken, you know this small idea, this action, this little action.
Right? Build the school.
You can't talk about building buildings. You have to build the buildings
right? You can't talk about building an ecosystem. You're building the ecosystem
(29:52):
right? And it sounds like a 360 review process where you're being able to do that.
has there ever been a situation where even one of the graduates of one of these schools has come by and knocked on, knocked on the door at civic builders, and said, Hey, I'd like to help with your mission.
Sierra Ballard (30:09):
We have 2 people working at civic builders who have been through school programs of schools that we've built.
We we. So so yes, the answer is yes, and that is really gratifying.
Govindh Jayaraman (30:23):
Yeah, I can imagine. I like how you keep the focus. Your metric that you 1st came up with right away was number of students, and I think that for
a lot of entrepreneurs, especially ones that are socially motivated, they get very complex with their Kpi and the things that they're trying to measure, and it becomes, you know, maybe opaque. As a result, you're really focused on students. Is that a deliberate process? Is that something that is hard to remain. The focus on it sounds very intentional.
Sierra Ballard (30:55):
We did some serious thinking about that early on. And it is. That's why we're doing the work. That's why we're doing the work. And so the more kids that we can impact the better. But but we do want to be careful and make sure, making sure that we're not just, you know, building empty buildings. But we're building buildings that add value. And so those that that's what
(31:22):
that it is intentional and matters a lot to us.
Govindh Jayaraman (31:25):
Yeah, you're not building buildings. I remember one time somebody explaining to me
the one thing you don't want to do in real estate in any way. Shape or form is store air
and and and you're not, you're not building those beautiful buildings to store air. Yeah? So so if if
what is the surprising thing that you've learned about building an education ecosystem around these charter schools that you
(31:54):
thought that that surprises you the most?
Or what are some of the things that surprise you the most about this.
Sierra Ballard (32:01):
Yeah, I don't know about surprises. So 1 1 thing that's interesting is that charter schools. Some of the strength of Charter schools is their independence. So they have. They have bold ideas themselves. They have different ways of doing things. Some of the schools are, you know.
(32:22):
career and technical, provide career and technical education. Some of the schools provide more classical education. There's a whole variety of ways that schools happen.
and that that that landscape is is made stronger by its diversity.
Govindh Jayaraman (32:50):
But that same.
Sierra Ballard (32:52):
Diversity and independence sometimes gets in the way of the big things that the schools have to do. And I'll give you some examples. One example is advocacy. So all of the schools, whether they're, you know, whether they're a career, technical education school or an art school or a more classical school. They all are, you know, have
(33:16):
similar interests around money around, you know, around maybe access to facilities and other things, but because the because
the schools operate so independently. It's sometimes difficult to bring them together. To solve that sort of problem and facilities is very much the same thing. Right? Facilities is very similar. It's a big, big infrastructure problem. And you've got all of these small nonprofit schools
(33:43):
who are trying to figure it out on their own. And that became in many ways the opportunity that we stepped into to say, Wait, let's have an organization that focuses on the infrastructure. So you guys can be can provide education in all of the different ways that you do. And so I think that there's a bit of a double edged sword, and that was a bit of a surprise to me. Both the strength of the movement and the weakness of the movement.
Govindh Jayaraman (34:11):
Interesting and has your boldness pulled you
off of that core infrastructure value that you provide along the way. I mean, there are so many problems that need to be solved in education, it may be distracting. Have you ever found that?
Have you ever been distracted by that? Or have have you been able to stay focused.
Sierra Ballard (34:32):
No, I think we've been able to stay focused. And it's also it says, when you, when you sort of generalize like that, you can find analogs that you can learn from. Say, all right. These guys didn't do this with schools, but they did this in other ways and that, and that, and that becomes interesting, and things that opportunities for us to better what we do.
Govindh Jayaraman (34:53):
That's amazing. Well, I know there's a lot more we could dig in here, and I'm sure I'm sure we could, but our time is nearly at the end. In this season of paper napkin wisdom! We've been shouting out
a dear friend of the show. His name is John Rulan. He passed suddenly, just a little bit earlier on this year, and he gave us a gift of a wonderful napkin many years ago, which was what you appreciate appreciates, and he started a movement. From that day on, 14 years ago he wrote a book called Giftology, which became an international bestseller business and a movement around gratitude, and so
(35:36):
ending every episode the season. We've been asking our guests to shout out someone or some people that would be important. Who would you like to shout out today.
Sierra Ballard (35:45):
Well, 1st of all, I mean, thank you for the opportunity, and I think I have a similar shout out. I had the real pleasure of working with a dynamic leader in education named Don Shelvey. Don was a superintendent of schools in Stockton, California. And then he went on to run a large charter school network in California, called Aspire
(36:16):
and
And then he he went to the Gates Foundation, and he directed education, philanthropy at the Gates Foundation for many years. He he sadly passed away
year and a half or so ago, but but Don was a big thinker, and just had the heart of gold. Don actually
(36:39):
identified for us. He he was very interested in helping this community in Rhode Island, centered around Central Falls, which is a 1 square mile
community sort of in an industrial area. There's a lot of poverty that the actually the town had to declare bankruptcy at some point, and Don was convinced that the way to prosperity was through education, and was ready to make a big bet there, and so we joined with him. We built school 3 school buildings in the neighborhood, which is a lot for a small small area.
(37:16):
and he always did that work with a big smile on his face, and I missed Don. And so I'm going to shout out Don Shelvey.
Govindh Jayaraman (37:27):
Thank you for sharing that, David, and thank you for joining me today.
Sierra Ballard (37:30):
Yeah, thanks so much, Kevinda. I really appreciate it.
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